As for the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in the city, you may take these as plunder for yourselves. And you may use the plunder the Lord your God gives you from your enemies. Deuteronomy 20:14
@@spencerrocchi3388 Well if God were to just end slavery then it wouldn't be us making a decision to do good it would be God making that decision for us. Its much like if God were to make it so that everyone had faith in Him. That wouldn't be true faith it would just be God choosing faith for us. I hope you read this.
God ordained that sanctuary cities for people suspected of murder must be set up, and yet no one argues that he is for Murder. He never ordains that a man must kill or that a man must own a slave so saying that he ADVOCATES for it is ridiculous. He knows the foolishness of humanity and leaves room for our error. The same way Moses was able to give laws and conditions for divorce but the true word from Jesus is that what God puts together man cannot separate. This is an evil world where even in 2024 there are people being sold as slaves I can’t imagine how prolific it must have been back then and how impregnable of a stumbling block it would be for the already sinful Israelites to avoid.
unsurprisngly it doesn't do that, it has the mere suggestion that they should, and in 1 peter 2, it says that slaves should never seek their freedom, no matter how badly they are treated.
@DarcyTheDisciple Yep, I did read it in context and your god *still* tells slaves to never seek their freedom. Nice of you to put up the verses that support what I said as true. It's rather hilarious that a christian has that the roman emperor needs to be honored when this same person supposedly persecutes christians. Nothing like seeing an early version where religion sucks up to politics.
There are plenty of books that have been written that try to justify the evil and immoral practice of slavery with excuses like treat the human beings You are keeping as property "well" I guess the bible , if you say so, is just one of those books. Of course a book that tells the masters of slaves to treat their slaves well would be a book that condones the owning of human beings as property.
@@velkyn1negative sir, multiple verses in Xodus and Deuteronomy talk about even beating a slave, SELF chosen to be or in due to debt, would lead to either DEATH of the master or freedom from the master. Even more over, there’s verses talking about if a slave runs away and seeks refuge with you then DO NOT return the slave to the master but let him live among your village, as that slave was being mistreated. Seek the truth, God and Jesus loves all of you, there’s even more on this matter.
@@luvTheSoccerboi As usual, more lies from a Christian who evidently hasn't read his bible. Exodus 21 only applies to Israelites, not the chattel slaves. And no one chooses to be a slave, dear; one cna only choose to be an indentured servant. A slave by definition has no choice. There is nothing about slaves running to sanctuary towns. There bible verses about murderers being able to go to sanctuary towns. Do check your bible before trying to make false claims to someone who has.
It says how to properly keep a slave in the Old Testament. The argument of God was meeting the Israelites where they were, because slavery was a huge part of the world at that time is BS. God gave strict and difficult commands. If God is fully moral, and slavery is fully immoral , than he wouldn’t have appeased to the Israelites, he would simply say NO.
God says where you are supposed to buy your slaves, god calls them property that can be passed down to your children, and even gives instructions on how you can beat them. If I tell my child where to buy drugs, how to take them, and how to sell them to other kids am I a moral parent? I never said he should buy the drugs! I didn’t tell him not to either, but just gave some info on the best way to buy and sell drugs. Furthermore, since I said not to sell these drugs near schools I’m moral because others sell them near the schools. You would not make that argument for anything else besides your choice of god. God commands not to suffer a witch to live, picking up sticks on a sabbath gets you stoned to death, don’t cook a baby goat in its mothers milk, don’t wear mixed fabrics, however never says owning other humans is not allowed.
@@tsquared334It doesn’t get much more explicit than Leviticus 25:44-46. If you don’t interpret those words as God telling some group of people in history to own slaves, then I’d love to know what kind of words would give you that interpretation.
@@benoberle9312 yes, which shows that morality is relative. I agree that those laws and morals were the laws and morals of Israelite culture back then. The problem started when they inserted their tribal god Yahweh which made that god complicit and responsible and then the Christians made him their (global) god.
@@KasperKatje As I christian I somewhat wish that God would've just outright said " you can't own slaves". However, I'm not gonna let that undermine my relationship with Him because I know that He is good and that there is a reason for His actions. I just don't 100% know all of it. In some cases there are decisions made by God that are beyond the understanding of us humans. I will look to find out more about the topic but I do admit that you bring up a good points , I just know that there is an even better answer.
So… God didn’t want the Hebrews to be enslaved but he handed down rules that explicitly stated that they could buy saves from the nations surrounding them and keep them as inheritable property. Maybe, and this might be a bit ‘out there’, but maybe the book was written by a tribe that valued themselves more than they valued the ‘other’. Y’know, like humans have done throughout history. The Bible seems like an absolutely human-inspired book.
If it’s a Man inspired book, why is there so much Love? And how come it goes against EVERYTHING Mans flesh wants? And how come every single religion admits Jesus was a genuine historical figure, and the bible is the ONLY book wrote about Jesus while he lived, died, and resurrected on earth?
@@ThyChristFollower love? A God who drowned all but 8 humans? A God that hardened Pharaoh’s heart so he could kill Egypt’s sons? A God that destroyed Job’s life to prove a point to Satan? Both God and the Bible are catastrophically flawed.
@@ChrisFineganTunes 1. He killed all man except for 8 because the didn’t care about God, and the Ones he saved cared. And he promised not to do it again. 2. Pharaoh hardened his Own heart 7 times before God hardened it. God gave pharaoh chances. Im not on the book of Job yet, so i cant clarify anything about that.
@@ThyChristFollower the way I think about it is that if an imperfect human were to do even a fraction of the things God did in these circumstances, they’d be called a monster. And rightly so. How can a morally perfect and all-loving being carry out actions that even we know are abhorrent? Yet Christians claim that these actions were good and just by virtue of the fact that it was God who took the action. God says we have fallen short of his standards yet he gets to commit genocide and call it good?!? His standards are messed up. It should be impossible to look at the actions of a perfect being and say ‘that looks like evil in any other circumstance’.
@@ChrisFineganTunes He loved the world. But it became corrupted. They all went against him, EXCEPT those 8. So he flooded the earth. He did nothing wrong. He also made a Promise never to flood the earth again. However if you don’t want to believe in that, just keep in mind the resurrection did occur. Thats the 1 thing the truly matters. That Jesus lived and Died for everyone’s sins, and he went and died on the Cross for us all, and 3 days after he died and was put in the tomb, he rose from the dead. So Jesus is what matters, nothing else.
God permitted the Israelites to own and sell slaves, also to take virgin women from the lands they have conquered, marry them and... Saying it was just recorded and not condoned is absolutely false. If God was so disgusted by people believing in other Gods to the point of him sending the Israelites to conquer and destroy those lands, He could have banned slavery as well if it was disgusting to Him. What he did is let the conauerors take slaves instead, so stop lying
@@mixbyreez“Whoever steals a man and sells him, and anyone found in possession of him, shall be put to death.” (Exodus 21:16, ESV) "You must not return an escaped slave to his master when he has run away to you. Indeed, he may live among you in any place he chooses, in whichever of your villages he prefers; you must not oppress him." (Deuteronomy 23:15-16 These passages clearly condemn slavery and they set up the context for Leviticus 25, The original Hebrew term used in those passages given the context of these previous passages is more better translated to servant, or in the context of that time period would be more closely understood as the words worker or employee today, The Bible does not condone slavery
Cliffe seems to have become youtube Christian's liar of choice these days. The fact that the Bible describes God delivering Hebrews from slavery does not mean the Bible does not advocate slavery, since it later depicts God granting those same Israelites permission to own slaves. Slavery was not merely recorded in the Bible. Chattel slavery is explicitly condones in Leviticus 25:44-46. Cliffe is just a liar.
The greatest commandments are: (1) love God with all your heart, soul, mind and body and (2) love your neighbor as yourself. If the Bible really advocated slavery, would any of those two commandments be given in the Bible? The Bible says God hates divorce, but allowed Moses to instruct the children of Israel to get divorced, especially for adultery. But was it God's intent? Please see the Bible in its right context. And if you have not (1) repented (2) belived in Christ, (3) never been baptized, and received the Holy Spirit, by whose interpretation do you understand the Bible or by what authority do you speak on the Bible?
@@thesonsoflightt None of the commandments condemn slavery, and other verses explicitly condone and promote slavery. Frankly, if it is moral love my neighbor, I don't need some book to tell me that. But if it is moral to own other people as chattel slaves, then some book better do so very thorough explaining. "Please see the Bible in its right context." I do. So you should you. The context of the Bible is the rambling mythology of ignorant, superstitious, barbaric, bronze-age goat herders. Please read it in context. "by whose interpretation do you understand the Bible or by what authority do you speak on the Bible?" Honesty requires no authority.
@@thesonsoflightt I don't know the answer to your first question, but it's a good one. Personally I find it confusing and more than a little contradictory? But there is no getting around the fact that the Bible does in fact condone lifelong chattel slavery. Says who slaves can and cannot be, and lays down laws around it. As to "what is God's intent"? We don't know because the Bible never tells us. And it would have been very easy to do. Just one sentence, but we don't get that, so we don't know. As to your last paragraph, are you saying unless you're a Christian, you can't read and understand the Bible? Personally I've studied it intently and in depth. More than most Christians. That's my authority in answer to your question.
@@nickbrasing8786 The Bible is not contradictory for those who have the Spirit of God or born again. Yes, without the Spirit of God, and being born again, it is impossible for you or anyone to understand that book as God intended. One can come up with his own understanding, but it does not mean it is the one God intended. And the Bible is clear that certain things like divorce were permitted because of the HARDNESS of the hearts of men. It is not what God intended. In my spiritual opinion, slavery and even polygamy in the Bible fall with in that category. To understand the above, it goes back to one repenting, believe in Christ, be baptized and received the gift of the Holy Spirit (See, Acts 2:38). If one doesn't do this, he will read the Bible millions of times even, and come up empty, or confused or finding contradictions where there are no actual contradictions.
@@thesonsoflighttyou hit the mail on the head. If you look at the New Testament and what those who are endowed with the Holy Spirit and actually lived amongst Jesus taught you can see the living Gods true will for humanity. So much of the Old Testament was meant specifically to set Israel apart from the other cultures at the time so that they could be a symbol to others and the other nations and even many hebrews or Jews had fallen so low something like child sacrifice had to be fought against.
As for the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in the city, you may take these as plunder for yourselves. And you may use the plunder the Lord your God gives you from your enemies. Deuteronomy 20:14
More to this
Jesus said some commands were given because of the hardness of our hearts.
So Yahweh isn't powerful enough?
@@spencerrocchi3388 Well if God were to just end slavery then it wouldn't be us making a decision to do good it would be God making that decision for us. Its much like if God were to make it so that everyone had faith in Him. That wouldn't be true faith it would just be God choosing faith for us. I hope you read this.
@@spencerrocchi3388 What’s power got to do with what he said?
God ordained that sanctuary cities for people suspected of murder must be set up, and yet no one argues that he is for Murder. He never ordains that a man must kill or that a man must own a slave so saying that he ADVOCATES for it is ridiculous. He knows the foolishness of humanity and leaves room for our error. The same way Moses was able to give laws and conditions for divorce but the true word from Jesus is that what God puts together man cannot separate. This is an evil world where even in 2024 there are people being sold as slaves I can’t imagine how prolific it must have been back then and how impregnable of a stumbling block it would be for the already sinful Israelites to avoid.
funny how this god has no problem with murder since it repeatedly kills people for things they didn't do.
Leviticus.
The Bible is the only Book I know that teaches that Masters should treat their slaves well.
unsurprisngly it doesn't do that, it has the mere suggestion that they should, and in 1 peter 2, it says that slaves should never seek their freedom, no matter how badly they are treated.
@DarcyTheDisciple Yep, I did read it in context and your god *still* tells slaves to never seek their freedom. Nice of you to put up the verses that support what I said as true.
It's rather hilarious that a christian has that the roman emperor needs to be honored when this same person supposedly persecutes christians. Nothing like seeing an early version where religion sucks up to politics.
There are plenty of books that have been written that try to justify the evil and immoral practice of slavery with excuses like treat the human beings You are keeping as property "well"
I guess the bible , if you say so, is just one of those books.
Of course a book that tells the masters of slaves to treat their slaves well would be a book that condones the owning of human beings as property.
@@velkyn1negative sir, multiple verses in Xodus and Deuteronomy talk about even beating a slave, SELF chosen to be or in due to debt, would lead to either DEATH of the master or freedom from the master.
Even more over, there’s verses talking about if a slave runs away and seeks refuge with you then DO NOT return the slave to the master but let him live among your village, as that slave was being mistreated.
Seek the truth, God and Jesus loves all of you, there’s even more on this matter.
@@luvTheSoccerboi As usual, more lies from a Christian who evidently hasn't read his bible. Exodus 21 only applies to Israelites, not the chattel slaves. And no one chooses to be a slave, dear; one cna only choose to be an indentured servant. A slave by definition has no choice.
There is nothing about slaves running to sanctuary towns. There bible verses about murderers being able to go to sanctuary towns. Do check your bible before trying to make false claims to someone who has.
It says how to properly keep a slave in the Old Testament.
The argument of God was meeting the Israelites where they were, because slavery was a huge part of the world at that time is BS.
God gave strict and difficult commands.
If God is fully moral, and slavery is fully immoral , than he wouldn’t have appeased to the Israelites, he would simply say NO.
God says where you are supposed to buy your slaves, god calls them property that can be passed down to your children, and even gives instructions on how you can beat them.
If I tell my child where to buy drugs, how to take them, and how to sell them to other kids am I a moral parent? I never said he should buy the drugs! I didn’t tell him not to either, but just gave some info on the best way to buy and sell drugs. Furthermore, since I said not to sell these drugs near schools I’m moral because others sell them near the schools.
You would not make that argument for anything else besides your choice of god. God commands not to suffer a witch to live, picking up sticks on a sabbath gets you stoned to death, don’t cook a baby goat in its mothers milk, don’t wear mixed fabrics, however never says owning other humans is not allowed.
@@tsquared334It doesn’t get much more explicit than Leviticus 25:44-46. If you don’t interpret those words as God telling some group of people in history to own slaves, then I’d love to know what kind of words would give you that interpretation.
Wtf? What kind of r*tarded argument is that?? Are u a real person??
Okay
k .
Amen thank you Jesus remember God does not condone these acts God loves everyone it is man that is evil
Read Leviticus 25:44-46 where god gives instructions.
@@KasperKatje Like Cliff said this was embedded in their culture so God was telling them how to deal with the harsh reality of slavery
@@benoberle9312 yes, which shows that morality is relative.
I agree that those laws and morals were the laws and morals of Israelite culture back then.
The problem started when they inserted their tribal god Yahweh which made that god complicit and responsible and then the Christians made him their (global) god.
@@KasperKatje As I christian I somewhat wish that God would've just outright said " you can't own slaves". However, I'm not gonna let that undermine my relationship with Him because I know that He is good and that there is a reason for His actions. I just don't 100% know all of it. In some cases there are decisions made by God that are beyond the understanding of us humans. I will look to find out more about the topic but I do admit that you bring up a good points , I just know that there is an even better answer.
@@benoberle9312 yes, it can be difficult issues. Good luck.
So… God didn’t want the Hebrews to be enslaved but he handed down rules that explicitly stated that they could buy saves from the nations surrounding them and keep them as inheritable property.
Maybe, and this might be a bit ‘out there’, but maybe the book was written by a tribe that valued themselves more than they valued the ‘other’.
Y’know, like humans have done throughout history.
The Bible seems like an absolutely human-inspired book.
If it’s a Man inspired book, why is there so much Love? And how come it goes against EVERYTHING Mans flesh wants? And how come every single religion admits Jesus was a genuine historical figure, and the bible is the ONLY book wrote about Jesus while he lived, died, and resurrected on earth?
@@ThyChristFollower love? A God who drowned all but 8 humans? A God that hardened Pharaoh’s heart so he could kill Egypt’s sons? A God that destroyed Job’s life to prove a point to Satan?
Both God and the Bible are catastrophically flawed.
@@ChrisFineganTunes 1. He killed all man except for 8 because the didn’t care about God, and the Ones he saved cared. And he promised not to do it again.
2. Pharaoh hardened his Own heart 7 times before God hardened it. God gave pharaoh chances.
Im not on the book of Job yet, so i cant clarify anything about that.
@@ThyChristFollower the way I think about it is that if an imperfect human were to do even a fraction of the things God did in these circumstances, they’d be called a monster. And rightly so.
How can a morally perfect and all-loving being carry out actions that even we know are abhorrent?
Yet Christians claim that these actions were good and just by virtue of the fact that it was God who took the action.
God says we have fallen short of his standards yet he gets to commit genocide and call it good?!?
His standards are messed up. It should be impossible to look at the actions of a perfect being and say ‘that looks like evil in any other circumstance’.
@@ChrisFineganTunes He loved the world. But it became corrupted. They all went against him, EXCEPT those 8. So he flooded the earth. He did nothing wrong. He also made a Promise never to flood the earth again. However if you don’t want to believe in that, just keep in mind the resurrection did occur. Thats the 1 thing the truly matters. That Jesus lived and Died for everyone’s sins, and he went and died on the Cross for us all, and 3 days after he died and was put in the tomb, he rose from the dead. So Jesus is what matters, nothing else.
Strong tone for a weak defense
Not really the bible shows people how to live through these times unlike other books that promote violence towards others 😂
But the saints commit them every few pages
God permitted the Israelites to own and sell slaves, also to take virgin women from the lands they have conquered, marry them and... Saying it was just recorded and not condoned is absolutely false.
If God was so disgusted by people believing in other Gods to the point of him sending the Israelites to conquer and destroy those lands, He could have banned slavery as well if it was disgusting to Him. What he did is let the conauerors take slaves instead, so stop lying
God did not permit such things. LIAR
Has He really permitted IT ?@@PolishTick
Quote verses where God permitted slavery and said it was just.
@@amari117 ive seen video now , and one guy says leviticus 25 44-46
@@mixbyreez“Whoever steals a man and sells him, and anyone found in possession of him, shall be put to death.” (Exodus 21:16, ESV)
"You must not return an escaped slave to his master when he has run away to you. Indeed, he may live among you in any place he chooses, in whichever of your villages he prefers; you must not oppress him." (Deuteronomy 23:15-16
These passages clearly condemn slavery and they set up the context for Leviticus 25, The original Hebrew term used in those passages given the context of these previous passages is more better translated to servant, or in the context of that time period would be more closely understood as the words worker or employee today, The Bible does not condone slavery
Cliffe seems to have become youtube Christian's liar of choice these days.
The fact that the Bible describes God delivering Hebrews from slavery does not mean the Bible does not advocate slavery, since it later depicts God granting those same Israelites permission to own slaves.
Slavery was not merely recorded in the Bible. Chattel slavery is explicitly condones in Leviticus 25:44-46.
Cliffe is just a liar.
The greatest commandments are: (1) love God with all your heart, soul, mind and body and (2) love your neighbor as yourself. If the Bible really advocated slavery, would any of those two commandments be given in the Bible? The Bible says God hates divorce, but allowed Moses to instruct the children of Israel to get divorced, especially for adultery. But was it God's intent?
Please see the Bible in its right context. And if you have not (1) repented (2) belived in Christ, (3) never been baptized, and received the Holy Spirit, by whose interpretation do you understand the Bible or by what authority do you speak on the Bible?
@@thesonsoflightt
None of the commandments condemn slavery, and other verses explicitly condone and promote slavery.
Frankly, if it is moral love my neighbor, I don't need some book to tell me that.
But if it is moral to own other people as chattel slaves, then some book better do so very thorough explaining.
"Please see the Bible in its right context."
I do. So you should you. The context of the Bible is the rambling mythology of ignorant, superstitious, barbaric, bronze-age goat herders. Please read it in context.
"by whose interpretation do you understand the Bible or by what authority do you speak on the Bible?"
Honesty requires no authority.
@@thesonsoflightt I don't know the answer to your first question, but it's a good one. Personally I find it confusing and more than a little contradictory? But there is no getting around the fact that the Bible does in fact condone lifelong chattel slavery. Says who slaves can and cannot be, and lays down laws around it.
As to "what is God's intent"? We don't know because the Bible never tells us. And it would have been very easy to do. Just one sentence, but we don't get that, so we don't know. As to your last paragraph, are you saying unless you're a Christian, you can't read and understand the Bible? Personally I've studied it intently and in depth. More than most Christians. That's my authority in answer to your question.
@@nickbrasing8786 The Bible is not contradictory for those who have the Spirit of God or born again. Yes, without the Spirit of God, and being born again, it is impossible for you or anyone to understand that book as God intended. One can come up with his own understanding, but it does not mean it is the one God intended. And the Bible is clear that certain things like divorce were permitted because of the HARDNESS of the hearts of men. It is not what God intended. In my spiritual opinion, slavery and even polygamy in the Bible fall with in that category.
To understand the above, it goes back to one repenting, believe in Christ, be baptized and received the gift of the Holy Spirit (See, Acts 2:38). If one doesn't do this, he will read the Bible millions of times even, and come up empty, or confused or finding contradictions where there are no actual contradictions.
@@thesonsoflighttyou hit the mail on the head. If you look at the New Testament and what those who are endowed with the Holy Spirit and actually lived amongst Jesus taught you can see the living Gods true will for humanity. So much of the Old Testament was meant specifically to set Israel apart from the other cultures at the time so that they could be a symbol to others and the other nations and even many hebrews or Jews had fallen so low something like child sacrifice had to be fought against.