you mentioned you didn’t want to relic your torch red 5150 , but how do you think it’d work out if you did? I really like the color of the torch red, and plan on using it for my build. But i also want to relic mine the same way you did to your first one. Do you think i could achieve the same feathered wear and what not? Let me know your thoughts and how I might go about that! Thank you again Brian this video was great
@@wildboar1911A1 Thanks for watching. Yes, I think it's possible to achieve similar results compared to my first build. I would definitely try practicing any relic techniques on a sample board though first. But in my experience, the lacquer is able to be lightly sanded off to simulate wear and tear. Best of luck.
Thanks for this video! I’ve sanded and prepped my 78 tribute several times because of the white top coat of paint being orange peeled so badly. And I never thought to think of what the cheap black coat was that I thought didn’t matter because it was on the bottom.
I have a video for a '78 VH1 black and white Franky build. I painted over a black Fender body, but I scuffed the factory finish first and buried it underneath a good coat of urethane primer. Lots of people asked why didn't I just keep the factory black base???!!! LOL...well, problems like you describe. You just never know when one type of paint or finish is going to react negatively with another so it's always best practice to stick with one brand of paint for the entire project. Thanks for watching.
just recieved my order of Motip RAL 9005, 9010 & 3020. Come next summer the fun starts. Wasnt satisfied with my first replica. By accident i got the neckpocket routed. So i will try again
Thank you! I hope I will never build another relic version though.. LOL. That, in and of itself, is a huge undertaking and very hard to make it look convincing.
Great work, as always. I looked back at the 5150 I did for a friend using Chevy Orange Red and I too have crazing. I used SprayMax 2K clear. I ordered Torch Red for an upcoming "new" build. Still on the fence as to what color I'll use for my Locke relic build. Might reach out to AutomotiveTouchUp for a quote. If I can get away with one can, I might just pay the added cost. I should note that Torch Red isn't easy to find. All my local shops are out and I had to pay a premium - $20 per can.
Hey Brian thanks again for this video discussing Eddie's kramer I think I know exactly what color red it was painted with as my best friend is an automotive painter and I remember Eddie's guitar from the 5150 live without a net video looking a lot like the red that chevy corvettes had then so I was researching gm paint codes and there was back then chevy or gm bright red which looks a lot like torch red and Ferrari red and olympic white existed for the 1984 model years along with gm bright red which looked very similar to farrari red as torch red did not come out until 1990. And remember Eddie liked cars too and fast ones. And yes the Frankie was a diferent animal and I suspect a flatening agent was used in a clear coat on the kramer as the way the colors ran a little and aged as automotive paints were not as advanced as today. My thing is when I do my Eddie builds is to use the colors that actually were used then
I personally use rust oleum when painting any guitar, it’s really good quality. I made a white and black Frankenstrat out of it and it turned out great
What my understanding is, Eddie used a red rattle can of bicycle paint by schwinn, flamboyant red. Amazon carries it. Vintage Schwinn restoration paint.
Wrong guitar. That was the Frankenstrat that you are thinking of. The 5150 (and all of his Kramers) were painted by George Felise at the Kramer shop in NJ.
You’re thinking of the Frankenstrat….NOT the 5150!!!! The 5150 was painted by George Felise in the Kramer shop with RM automotive paint. Totally different guitar.
@@CoffeeDrinker71 You are correct 💯 I have had no sleep 😴 in 2 days. Our Mail 📬 box was hit for the 5 time in 9 years. I have a 🧱 brick bottom that surrounds the post that is a flower pot with Vinca Vine pouring over all year & Pansy that crawl down spring part summer & fall to early winter. This is the first one that took out the brick which is Severe Weather Rated Pavers for STREETS... So my wife suggested that we make it the EVH FRANKENSTEIN 📬 mail box. So I have been painting.. We have had rain Sunday thru this Tuesday... So had to cover the post with plastic etc... We live in the country. Retired here from civilization... Drunks Target Mail Boxes ... Everyone that's hit our mail box has at least $2,000 in damages to their car. I have chosen to add more white to the post for visibility. It's black with 3 reflective stickers & the Address Plaque on top is also reflective. Plus 2 reflectors one on each side 12' before the Mail box .. So yeah I'm stuck in my head with the original FtankenStrat... Cheers 🍻 🥃🥃 🎸
@@BackWoodsBillyCraftBeerReviews Oh man! That’s a real bummer about your mailbox! :( That’s cool your wife wants you to make the new one EVH themed!!! That’s a really cool idea. Best of luck!!! Thanks for watching and commenting! Cheers!
@CoffeeDrinker71 I'm guessing I'll have e to order from the site. I ha e not seen it anywhere else. The cool thing is that you can get it in rattle cans.
I thought Eddie just spray-painted his guitar with rattle cans. I read multiple articles about his decorating of guitars, and they all say he just did whatever he felt like doing at the moment I don’t think he put near this much thought and effort into what paints he used. And the original one looks fairly hideous when you’re up close to it. But still some pretty good information here especially about not mixing types of paint.
Hi Jeff. Great comments...you're right, Eddie just spray painted his guitar...but not the 5150! He sprayed the Frankenstrat, which is what most people remember. The subject of this video, however is the Kramer 5150 which was sprayed by George Felise at the Kramer shop (see photo at the 18:55 mark). There are other photos of George holding several 5150 bodies in the paint booth which are available online to prove Eddie did not paint any of the 5150 style guitars (and the backups). So, the reason for the video was to help steer fellow builders in a direction that makes more sense when it comes to matching the correct color that George used, especially given the fact that we can no longer use the same paints that he used since they are no longer available. It's been an ongoing debate for many decades....and it has caused a lot of controversy in the "builders forums". LOL. Thanks for watching.
Thanks for this and for bieng accurate concerning the paint on the 5150 guitars as there is a lot of misinformation out there such as saying the 5150 was a popler body maybe the test one was but we all know it was a basswood body as we all know that's what Eddie liked. As for why you ran into issues trying to use the duplicolor perfect match clear I think I have the answer as when I looked at the ingredients on the scratch filler primer and basecoat color the copyright year said 2009 and the ingredients were acetates ketone and toulene but on the clear the copyright year said 2016 and the ingredients said acetates which is acetone ketone but no longer contained keytone. Which indicates a formulary change which probably explains why you may have run into issues anyway I have started my test run of duplicolor with different colors on a piece of red oak scrap to test what is comparable and not as I like boiled linseed oil first on all my guitar bodies and after letting the wood sit for 3 days then wiping the scrap with 91 percent rubing alchohol the first 3 coats went down successfully of the primer. But I did no sanding as I am testing adhesion then I will test basecoat then I will test duplicolor perfect match clear. To see if it cures. Anyway I need to be clear and accurate about about automotive paints too that manufactures use as my best friend does automotive paints they have been urathane based since the 1960s and automotive paints have clear in them so Eddie's 5150 guitar probably had clear as it would have been required over his basecoat but knowing Eddie he probably Road tested and insisted that the clear not be glossy and probably did his typical brutality tests by dragging the guitar through a parking lot and he never cleaned his guitars either. But that was eddie but as for an explanation of why minwax worked it may have contained the ketone in it anyway minwax clear brushing laquar contains a 2005 copyright and that year formulation and that's why I want to get out of spray cans with a few exceptions because of these issues anyway my bet is that the frankenstrat and kramer bodies were Olympic white and Chevy torch red but due to eddies brutality tests the white began to look like Wimbledon white and the red faded to look more orange depending on the light of the picture too but my guess is the red originally probably looked like the red color you would find on corvettes and camaros of the 1980s maybe even a Ferrari red. As remember Eddie loved fast cars too. Ohh and their is no reason to use engine enamel with ceramic on wood period it's meant for metal like brakes engines headers and high temp applications now if you want to wax your guitar with ceremic wax that's different. As for me I like gloss on my clear and that's me as I like super jumbo frets eddie liked jumbo or 6105 but that's him. So that's why I am better off just getting a cheap Chinese neck which ironically costs the same as the boggie bodies neck he originally had on his Frankie same with finding a banana neck to do a kramer build. Because either way I will have to customize it and that's something a lot of these guys forget they want to obsess over even what fretwire Eddie used and spend 2 grand and pay fender or more but here is the thing will you sound like Eddie will it feel comfortable to you and like I said I will not pay big bucks just to have a guitar looked relicked with cracked paint when I am probably spend another 500 bucks to change the fretwire or pay a tech to do it. And is the truss rod single action or dual action because again if it's not double action forget it like most fenders and normally I don't like skinny dual action 4 mm truss rods but since I have 2 lying around I will make an exception just to get 2 or 3 eddy style guitars necks built but mine will have the action adjustable at the headstock because that's what I like not at the heel of the neck. And that's another reason why I can't do a mighty Mac or kne build. But that's me and Eddie would say if that's what you like that's what you should do.
Thanks again for watching and commenting. That's very good info about the ketones and other ingredients in the paints! That's why I always advocate and tell viewers to always test out your paints on a piece of scrap first. It will help reveal any potential problems before learning the hard way and ruining a paint job on a body! LOL. It's happened to me a few times. Ha! Anyway I appreciate your input as always.
@@CoffeeDrinker71 yes so the perfect match clear took out the key tones sometime between 2009 and 2016. Anyway I just got done testing duplicolor perfect match base coat part on my red oak scrap now I did not do any sanding once I put the scratch filler primer on and basecoat I only sanded with 180 grit before I applied the scratch filler primer as the porpose for me is to test how the diferent layers react with each other. And to test adhesion and drying and curing. So Thursday or Friday I will test the duplicolor perfect match clear to see if it drys and hardens. But the secret may be the boiled linseed oil and letting it cure for 3 days and the isopropyl alchohol at 91 percent and wiping the piece of red oak scrap may have promoted some adhesion I know my base coat is looking a little shiny over the Grey primer. But I would say you still need the deft sanding sealer but try putting boiled linseed oil on the guitar body letting it cure for 15 days then degrease with 91 percent rubing alcohol then go through the process but you might be able to get away with just scratch filler primer from duplicolor but do 4 total coats maybe more then let dry for 3 days before moving on to the basecoat.. Just wondering if using the duplicolor sandable primer but the non perfect match version of that might have caused the issue with the clear. As it is a 3 part system. For which you are supposed to use together but I will have the answer by this weekend or Monday.
Also I will be testing another system next week on the other side of my scrap and that's the rustoleum universal paint and primer in one that just say acrylic on it but the chalenge is it's really am enamel but is suposedely compatible with laquar and enamel but of course they don't have a sandable primer to go with it so I will be testing the rustoloem 2 in one automotive sandabke primer that's suposed to work with either laquar or enamels then I can test the universel paint and primer as a basecoat then the universal high gloss clear universal from rustoleum but long term except for my own eddie guitar builds I will be getting out of using spray cans only quart cans from one brands but thats the beauty and spirit of Eddie not settling and being willing to find a way to get what you want even out of a paint can and not bieng afraid to ruin something to get what you want and like him or Steve vai and yngwie Malmsteen I don't like to hear it can't be done I just want what I want but what I want might not be what Eddie liked either and that's what all these eddie fans need to remember about him too. @@CoffeeDrinker71
@@CoffeeDrinker71 update I am testing the duplicolor perfect match clear now on my sample and I can report that there is some leakage from the can luckily it has not harmed my sample yet and if my guitar is hung up vertically it should not get drips of the chemical in it. So that may be part of the issue was really suorjzed that even after shaking it regularly that unlike the 2009 formulations which sprayed out evenly with no dripping of liquid at all the perfect match clear had dripping of liquid maybe it is fluke but I doubt it and that might explain why it's hard to find on shelves I am thinking maybe it is the toulene missing anyway I will let you know it dried and cured. But if not I will need to test the watco old formula and new one. In a, spray can but remember the best way to fight back is to just learn how to tint your own mixes and laquars and worst case scenerio you can always learn how to make your own shellac which you can do from the dewaxed shellac resin and denatured alchohol. Will update soon
I wonder how that Dupli-Color would work on a polyurethane finish. I already have a white guitar, it would be easier to just paint over the existing finish, which is polyurethane.
I'm just about to start my 5150 project, but, the body has a very thin poly coat on it already. Can I sand that to get its thin clear coat off and use these paints? Or does ALL the poly have to come off first? Your clip has been a great help, and I went with the Wimbledon White and Torch Red. Cheers!
Hmmm...good question. You might be able to just scuff the original poly finish and start painting over it. I would suggest joining one of the guitar paint groups on FB just to get more specific advice as I have no experience trying this specifically.
@@CoffeeDrinker71 thanks dude, I will, I'm got the paint, stickers and sandpaper. I dont have a clear coat yet, but the Minwax seems to be the fav with this paint combo so I will shop for that too.
@Drinker71 Well, a month later, and a month smarter. Tested the paints on a tester block as you have above, and, in the real light of day, I found the Wimbledon White to have a little coffee tinge to it that didnt match well for me, so, Olympic White it is! Torch Red is dead on for my project. Whites down and curing a few days, then on to the tape. I've got a few picture templates for the tape, and I see the Fat white lines on the front of the guitar are Supposed to be 1/2 inch, that looks really small to my eyes. Whats your call on that? No 3/4 on the front besides the black?
@@mrnobodyinvr9762 Perfect! Isn't it extremely helpful to spray the test board? It helps answer so many questions, and you can make a much better/informed decision about the colors YOU like!! ...and yes, you are correct. The largest white stripes are only 1/2". It will look correct once it's all painted. The black stripes actually range from about .650"-.700" since they are not perfectly straight. If you look real close at the black stripes a few of them are tapered (wider on one end). Hope this helps!
@@CoffeeDrinker71 Your clip has been a Massive help, Thank you for taking the time and effort to make the How-To Demo whilst making your own guitar, its a beauty. The Test boards are 100% needed. I was going to go with Wimbleton White, but when I put it down on the tester block, it was a little too coffee toned for me, I wanted that sharp white, and the tester saved me figuring that out On the guitar. Thanks for the Tape info, my brain keeps locking onto those 1/2 inch front lines, but, I'll stick with the plan and see how it goes. Thanks so much once again for all your info and effort, much appreciated.
Excellent video! I know that you made this some time ago. I'd love to ask a question if I could? What type of tapes did you use on these guitars? Can I ask where you bought the tape from too? Thanks. These guitars looks awesome!
Thank you very much! For these 5150 bodies I used the 3M green Fine Line tapes...but lately I started using the blue vinyl 3M 471+ tape on my latest Bumblebee series, and I think the blue vinyl 471+ tape is much easier to work with. Here is a link to one of the sizes: amzn.to/46XDRbg
Also, if you go directly to Episode 3 of my new "Bee" series, there is a lot of discussion about the blue vinyl 471+ tape, plus links to all the sizes (for the Bee) in the description. I hope that helps! th-cam.com/video/WFVfKCOO9-M/w-d-xo.html
Was hoping to ask you one more question if I may? On the guitar body on the right; You painted it Torch Red, what shade of white did you use on that one? Is it Wimbledon White also? Thanks again. I'm definitely using Torch Red, just need to decide on a white. That combination that you did looks excellent under your shop lights. Thanks again. 😁👍🏻
Yes, that is correct. The body on the right side was sprayed with Wimbledon White and the Torch Red combination. That body on the right was actually the one I built completely in this video: th-cam.com/video/ldsXI252AD8/w-d-xo.htmlsi=ltYn9mKR4b7SZdnM
@@CoffeeDrinker71 Thanks again. It looks really good. I think that's the combination that I'll go with. My brother and I fabricated a Knight Rider Trans Am years ago. We painted it in Lacquer, it's great material to work with. Thanks again. 😁👍🏻
There is also the possibility that Ford cardanal red was used but not sure if that existed in 1983. And torch red and chevy bright red look almost identical and yes chevy bright red still exists as a color available in duplicolor perfect match. The importance is that we be as accurate as possible to that time period when Eddie's kramer were built. And remember that torch red did not come out until 1990 but bright red came out in 1983 for the 1984 model years and was used on corvettes. Hope this helps so at least now I know what to paint my Eddie builds with and the codes of color. So thanks again for trying to cut through the nonsense of misinformation out there about the colors of edfies guitars because the aged look or today's look does not mean that's what the colors originally were so just because the red looks more orange today does not mean the color was orange or the white was Wimbledon white either.
Yes, lots of good points there! You're right, the Torch Red was a newer color, not available at the time that the Kramer was built. The other options you mentioned are definitely good too...the Bright Red, or the Ferrari Red. I looked at a few of them. With the inconsistency of the old film-based photos, it's really hard to determine. I think the point I was trying to make was that sometimes you just have to go with your best instinct and also take a little bit of creative freedom when deciding what's best for you...which might also be driven by which style/brand of paint systems a person plans to use. So, yeah...it's the ongoing struggle! LOL.
@@CoffeeDrinker71 yes I was just pointing out the likely scenerios but also my memories of the live without a net video which by the way on VHS is much clearer than on you tube for which I played often from the time I was 8 years old till I wore out years later. And it was defenetely not orange at all it looked exactly like those corvettes from. The 1980s and Ferraris and even camaros and the white defenetely looked like olympic white and yes olympic white was used as a paint code when the kramers were built and the bright red had just come out as a paint code and yes you can still get it in duplicolor perfect match and by the way bright red is almost identical to torch red because my buddy who knows paint codes and especially gm stuff was telling me that. But it cracks me up with all these guys saying use this use that thinking they know they don't and I know engine enamel with ceremic did not even exist in 1984. It came out like 20 years age there was ceramic coatings for headers in the 1990s but not the engine enamel with ceremic so why the heck would you paint a guitar body with it unless you plan to heat your guitar up in a oven and hope the wood does not burn.
@@gabrielstern4992 Yeah, lots of good points made here. I agree...I dislike that enamel engine paint! It definitely was not designed for this purpose! LOL. ...and yep, so many people want to debate the colors and the paint type in the EVH groups.
The red paint that you’re using in the 5150 no relic, it can be reliqued easily? Idk Cause that’s not a fragile paint like you said with the relic one, and also in the not relic 5150 the both paints are lacquers so i idk pls help me
Correct...the non-relic'd 5150 I used lacquer paints which "burn" into each other. It would be harder to relic I suppose than an enamel but I could be wrong.
Hey brian sorry to chime in again but I think I can definateky say with certainty exactly what colors Eddie's kramers were painted with I figured it out while looking at my yamaha rgx 110 which is a rare made in Taiwan model and has a very unique neck pocket profile and the body is a, basswood body just like edies Frankie and kramers were. And even has one humbucker and volume just like Eddie's kramers had but has a fender style trem just like edies Frankie had originally. And just like that Frankie when you dive won't stay in tune or go out of tune. So my original one I destroyed years ago with the neck was a red color just like the red of eddies kramer but also the kramer Sammi Hager used on the 5150 tour on songs like live walks in and why can't this be love as seen from the live without a net video and that color would be brand new gm bright red. But my yamaha just like my old one I aquired recently looked like a, Ford Wimbledon white but when I looked where the neck plate cover was it looked exactly like gm olympic white and this guitar and my original that was red both had clear on them. Because i remember when I stripped my original having a boatload of clear on it to strip away before the red came off and then the primer down to the bare wood. So most likely Eddies kramer would have had a cheap automotive laquar i know he had several kramers made but I am thinking the one he used the most was painted in automotive nitro laquar I know my yamahas were. So I am saying this because even if you clear it if it was painted with 1980s nitro laquar in Taiwan it would yellow giving that yellow look. And considering Eddie drank a lot of budwiesers and smoked cigerettes it would not shock me if real drunk he spilled beers all over his fretboards and on the guitar body which would relic a guitar pretty quickly. Including causing that paint bleed on his 5150s I can just tell from looking at the 5150 from the live without a net video at least on the neck from that laqusr wear on the fretboard. Anyway hope this helps put all the rumurs and garbage I have seen on the internet about Eddie's paint colors to bed once and for all. And like you said these guys don't realize you can't go by paints of today as the formulas are different and also looks can be deceiving. But I don't like guys on the internet thinking they know his colors and they don't. And if you really want to be accurate to how the kramers paint color scheme was originally then their are plenty of videos like the live without a net for which you can get on DVD and even if you had the VHS like I had and wore out I remember that white looking like olympic white VS TH-cam and the red bieng very much like bright red. And better yet you can see on you tube the live in Montreal footage too. Or even better the jump video will tell you too or the kramer in the hard rock Cafe or Smithsonian. Anyway hope that helps and unless clear urathane from the 1980s yellowed the only thing I can think of is old scholl nitrocelulose laquar. Hope this info helps amd thank God my old scholl yamaha from 1987 with the original paint leaves good clues.
Hi Gabriel, that's a lot of good information! Good detective work as usual! Yeah, I would agree that the red color is probably a GM color. We know that George Felise was using R/M automotive brand paints at the Kramer shop...he's proven that. The question is...what type of paint was it? ...and I'm guessing single stage automotive because clear coat systems were not invented yet in 1983 time frame.
@@CoffeeDrinker71they did have them in 1983 but they were not like today at all my best friend is a body shop guy and knows all about automotive paints I just had to comment on a another TH-camr who was saying use engine enamel gm bright orange ceramic that did not exist until 20 years ago and trying to insist and read to much into Eddie's fingerboard laquar wear forgetting Eddie drank like a chimney and those budwieser beers so it would not suprize me if he spilled beers on his guitars and fretboards which will cause laquar and even urathane to crack and wear off. And yes automotive urathane can yellow too according to my buddy especially the old style. And not just old school nitro laquar. And don't forget Paul unker painted some early kramers for Eddie too. And I suspect those so called popler kramers were test ones that Eddie used in videos and backups. That's another one going around we all know eddie loved basswood so the 1984 and 5150 kramers were basswood and there were more than one of them too. And no the Frankie was not made of swamp ash either Eddie clearly said basswood several times. But I think kramer did make one that looked like the Frankie I did see that with a kramer neck but if you look closely the neck pickup is black and not painted.
@@CoffeeDrinker71 a lot of guitar manufactures used automotive paints and usually left overs or older ones still do I think my yamaha even though it was made in Taiwan I suspect would have used left over gm colors maybe Ford and mine has clear over basecoat but it's not very glossy wondering if they used shellac over basecoat but shellac is very glossy and polly is very glossy but the amount of clear I think that was used back then was not very much maybe a coat or 2. And very light. And I remember most guitars and cars back then did not have very glossy clears some did but not like today. I know guitars had a lot of metalic effects like glitter and stuff and were colorful VS the 1990s but still I don't remember the clears bieng as thick or glossy back then. Hope that helps but let's say today I think quality control is becoming an issue like it was in the 1970s like I said before with jackson. And I am noticing the evh brand seems to be deviating too much from Eddie's vision with the color schemes the kill switches are fine and I understand why Eddie added them to his guitars in his later years because he could duplicate his mxr phase 90 effects right on his guitar on songs like the cradle will rock live a lot easier and directly himself but it's getting ridiculous. And I would say to those guys going nuts over his pickups you know if you want Eddie's authentic 5150 tone my stock yamaha rgx pickup from 1987 can give you that sound but a emg 81 active pickup in a basswood body will give you more of that sound with some reverb thrown in. And how do I know I am right because Zac wylde who is a huge Eddie freak and randy Rhodes guy uses them in almost all of his guitars With the 85 in the neck. Ohh and don't forget randy Rhodes had a very similar tone and adrian Smith of iron maiden and ohh adrain used Ibanez destroyers too with the exact same pickup in the bridge as eddies Ibanez destroyer too but adrain smiths was red. And we know eddie used his destroyer for all his rhythms on the first 2 van Halen albums with the switch set to just the bridge pickup and the tone all the way up. Because Eddie never used the tone knobs on any of his guitars. I am just mentioning it because I think it has gotten out of hand with all of this speculation but then again I forgot there was always that stuff when Eddie was alive and back In The 1980s and 1990s too. And yes he was great and magical in his own way but I think people forget getting his tone can come from surprisingly simple and common things with out breaking the bank and can be achieved multiple ways. And that's how it should be.
Hi, here's one question I have that I didnt find the answer to in the clip. HOW LONG do you, or Can you, leave the tape on after the red coats? an hour? a day? a week? Is there a best time to peel it, or is it all the same?
For me personally, I like to remove it as soon as the red feels dry to the touch...maybe an hour? ...maybe a few hours... The reason I like to remove it as early as possible is to reduce the chances of any type of reaction between the adhesive from the tape and the color underneath.
I'm actually having a hard time finding that Deft lacquer sanding sealer around my area. And, I don't feel like ordering it for $30 for one quart. Do you think that I could use a waterbased sanding sealer instead?
I'm using the orange red on mine. I plan on doing a non relic 5150 and am not really sure which white to use. I know Wimbledon white is kind of an off white used on relics mostly but what do you recommend for a brand new 5150? I see all of the different whites at the store and am a little overwhelmed by the choices.
It's all subjective of course, but I think the consensus is still to use the Wimbledon White even for the non-relics. I built a non-relic version recently (video on my channel) and I used the Wimbledon White for it too. Yes, it's got a softer tone to it, more like a cream white but it does blend well with the orange red. I've compared a few other "whites" and they look too bright. Of course I always suggest spraying a quick sample board just to make sure before you fully commit on your actual guitar body. Good luck!
@@Randomveteran It really is!!! I totally feel your pain. For reference I used the DupliColor "Olympic White" for my '78 B/W Frankenstrat project video. It's definitely more of a brighter white than the Wimbledon White...probably too bright for what you are looking for on a 5150 project.
Hey brian I pinpointed for sure what Eddies gm colors used would have been and possible other codes but most highly unlikely concerning whites gm offered. So gm bright red paint code for which duplicolor does sell for the perfect match bssecoat is the corect one to do the red for a 5150 kramer build but also I think for the kramer barrata Sammi Hager used on the 5150 tour as seen in the live without a net video. As for the whites it is most likely olympic white as the gm bright white paint code as seen on the duplicolor cans did not come out until 1991 just like gm torch red did not come out until 1991. Now there was a paint code for something called gm brightest white that was a single stage paint code that was, used from 1977 to 1988 that got replaced with a 2 stage paint code that was, slightly whiter than olympic white but I highly doubt that was used by George seliz. As for Eddie's kramer builds the misinformation concerning Eddie's kramers all bieng Popler bodies does continue to persist and I do believe some of Eddie's early prototype kramers in black and red he was given were Popler that Paul unker may have built and painted but the iconic one from the 5150 tour as was most of eddies back ups were all basswood including the 1984 guitar. Now is it possible the kramer guitar from the hot for teacher video with the angled pickup barrata style guitar was a Popler body absolutely. Finally a few weeks ago I called out someone on his channel for telling viewers eddies frankenstrat was made of northern ash a d that eddies Frankenstrat was made by someone who worked for Wayne charvel and was rushing to put out bodies we all know eddies original Frankie was made of basswood but he instists that someone who worked for guitar world picked up the Frankie itself and said the guitar felt heavy as hell like northern ash and not light like basswood but here's the thing the guy did not take into account that eddies Frankie neck and fretboard was made of maple wood which adds weight and thaf if you stick an original floyd rose trem system in the body especially from back then without any titinium saddles in it or titinium bridge they were heavy as hell and would make the guitar fell as heavy as northern ash. As the luthier and guitar builder names Chris disgusted on his highline guitars channel on post he did last week on Guitar weight and does your guitar feel to heavy. As for the possibility that more than one Frankie was made for Eddie later on years before the 2007 limited edition run absolutely and that Eddie had more than one Frankie considering charvel made a bunch of guitars for Eddie before what happened in 1979. And we know eddie wanted kramer to reproduce as a, signature series the Frankie But kramer thought it would not be esthetically pleasing as Paul unker discussed who knows maybe I will be dumb one of these days and do a duplicolor engine enamel with ceramic guitar paint job and watch it not come out correctly. Just like duplicolor brake enamel colors with cerimic heck maybe I will then put it in an oven at 500 degrees to bake it and watch the wood explode and catch on fire just to show why you don't use that stuff on wood or a guitar body Anyway hope this helps
Great information on those paint colors! So you are saying they used GM WA8774? I think the Duplicolor version is BGM-0388? I just looked it up. On the screen it definitely looks really, really close! Great eye!!!!
@@CoffeeDrinker71correct which is bright red under duplicolor but that gm code 8774 comes back as bright red that code you described but olympic white is the corect and most likely used white from gm. But like I said there was a, slightly lighter white called gm brightest white that was a single stage paint code until 1988 when it got replaced with a 2 stage paint code as bright white did not come out until 1991 just like torch red. And Brian torch red is extremely simalar but so is Ford cardinal red which has just a tad more orange looking so it's easy for people to mix up based off of a picture and video and assume thats the actaul color I mean I just looked at the live without a net videos posted on you tube and was rememembering Eddie's colors amd pictures were much clearer on VHS tape VS this and I certainly remember the 5150 not quite looking so orangish either. And I also know the light cam distort a, Color from the reflection of the stage lights. But Brian you defenetely got the olympic white correct VS your other build with the Ford Wimbledon white. You just needed to know the correct red gm code that's all. But hey if you want to still go for an aged look and use torch red and Wimbledon white that's fine too and even use torch red that's fine too I just think it's important. That you and others know what codes were actually used and most likely for those years and yes bright red is showing as starting in model year 1984 but remember by July 1983 that paint code would have already been released. Which is right in that window in time for the 1984 tour and remember at the 1983 us festival Eddie was still using the Frankie live or one of them. For those who are so into wanting eddies details maybe it's a good thing I am in my mid to late 1940s and am very technical and have a good friend who is knowledgeable about paint codes I just wish people would stop with getting eddies guitar body woods wrong including the kne guitar guys or mighty might or whoever that is selling 5150 build bodies as popler bodies and that's fine if you want to do that but don't say it's built to that guitars exact details because it's not unless it's a basswood body. Because remember eddie especially in live performances always came back to basswood bodies and he just liked what he liked and their is nothing wrong with that.
I use duplicolor and have used painters tape and the weird automotive paint tape but I still have some red run on my stripes. Why??? Lol can you tell me what the reason could be? I thought the tape was flat enough every time but every attempt is the same. Some red marks or run onto my stripes
When you say "painter's tape", what exactly are you referring to? If you are talking about a household painter's tape like "Frog Tape" or something for interior wall painting, that will not work. But...you're issue could be that the underlying base coat is rough? Check that. Or, the tape edges aren't sealed down properly. Check that by running your thumbnail down the edge, or a plastic credit card, etc. to ensure the edge of the tape is making full contact. Finally, you can spray a light coat of the original color on top of the tape to help seal it down and prevent the 2nd color (the red) from bleeding under the tape edges since it will be sealed off with the white mist coat.
@@CoffeeDrinker71 I’ll try a few tests and see what works for me thank you! I was using the 3m blue tape but same thing as frog tape. this time around I was using the vinyl automotive paint tape because it’s thinner. Thanks for the response! This is my 3rd or 4th attempt at the guitar now lol it’s been a dream guitar and I’ve wanted to do it myself like Eddie did so it’s very discouraging when the stripe paint has some red marks because that just screws it all up for me lol I have all your videos saved for when I try again. Thank you for the response and I’ll check/do everything you recommended! Take care!
@@ricklepick5134 Also before you scrap another paint job....you can "try" to wet sand out the red spots that have bled into your white. If your white base coat is thick enough, you can take something like 1500 grit (just cut a very small precise square), and wet sand along the edge of the white stripe to help remove the red that has spilled under your tape. I've had to do this on more than one occasion. The wet sanding technique should be fairly light, just enough to remove the red that is sitting on top of the white...but not too heavy to remove all of the white....make sense?
@@CoffeeDrinker71 yes sir! I appreciate all the help! I’d rather do that than start all over again lol it’s not major red on the white but just little bits here and there but they’re noticeable enough for me to want them gone lol
I've used either Duplicolor Perfect Match "Universal Black" (Gloss), or the Duplicolor "Acrylic Lacquer" in gloss black. Both options are usually widely available at your local auto parts store.
@@CoffeeDrinker71 Thanks for the quick response! I thought it was going to be gloss, but I saw there were a lot of different options as far as flat black matte black etc so i wanted to clear up any confusion. Thanks again!
@@wrathchildd6218 Yes I totally understand. There are so many options out there! And, in all honesty, the "gloss" version really doesn't look too glossy after it dries. It's actually closer to a "semi-gloss". But yes, stick with the black lacquer that's labeled as "Gloss" and you'll be fine! ;)
@@wrathchildd6218 In my full length 5150 build video, you'll see me using that black lacquer at the 24 minute mark. th-cam.com/video/ldsXI252AD8/w-d-xo.htmlsi=-jcGK_Fk9ax0rqCh&t=1444
Which neck? I've got a Musikraft neck on this particular 5150 lying on the bench...but the other 5150 body by KNE also has a matching KNE neck. You can email Mitch directly or visit this page: www.kneguitars.com/necks/neck_index.htm
@@DRAK_cyborg yes it really is. Don't forget to check out Locke Custom Guitars as well. They make some insanely accurate necks with the extra tuning peg option as well!
Warning to you tube when I am typing a response stop making my text disappear this is the third time I have tried to send a response the first time it was an error ocured so I copied and pasted but then that disapeared so then I attempted to type a response and that disapeared enough that's not nice or polite to those when typing enough with the bots ad automating stuff without testing it to see how it actually reacts in the real world same with reformulating paints same with guitar companies making changes to their guitar designs but have a lack of quality control like fender and jackson or Gibson but still charge high prices enough or ebay or Amazon and their descriptions of what they are selling
If you're a red Chevy Camero or Corvette owner trying to spray out of a can of spray paint instead of using a proper airbrush spray gun whooo doggies you might be the Dukes of Hazzard paint retouch crew!!!😝🤩🚯
You’re a saint, thank you for the informative videos!!!
Really good info brother! Thanks for sharing!
Glad you enjoyed it.
In all the pictures i've seen, I favor the more red like the "torch red" on your new guitar.
Awesome video Brian! I’m still finishing the last bits on my Frankie, but I’m already assembling parts for a 5150 build - so this video is clutch!
Very cool!!! I'm glad this was helpful.
Been waiting on this one! Thanks Brian. I’m loving that torch red ;)
you mentioned you didn’t want to relic your torch red 5150 , but how do you think it’d work out if you did? I really like the color of the torch red, and plan on using it for my build. But i also want to relic mine the same way you did to your first one. Do you think i could achieve the same feathered wear and what not? Let me know your thoughts and how I might go about that! Thank you again Brian this video was great
@@wildboar1911A1 Thanks for watching. Yes, I think it's possible to achieve similar results compared to my first build. I would definitely try practicing any relic techniques on a sample board though first. But in my experience, the lacquer is able to be lightly sanded off to simulate wear and tear. Best of luck.
Good video. Thank you, Brian 👍🏼
Thanks Peter!
Thank you SO MUCH Brian!!
My pleasure! I hope this helps!
Thanks for this video! I’ve sanded and prepped my 78 tribute several times because of the white top coat of paint being orange peeled so badly. And I never thought to think of what the cheap black coat was that I thought didn’t matter because it was on the bottom.
I have a video for a '78 VH1 black and white Franky build. I painted over a black Fender body, but I scuffed the factory finish first and buried it underneath a good coat of urethane primer. Lots of people asked why didn't I just keep the factory black base???!!! LOL...well, problems like you describe. You just never know when one type of paint or finish is going to react negatively with another so it's always best practice to stick with one brand of paint for the entire project. Thanks for watching.
just recieved my order of Motip RAL 9005, 9010 & 3020.
Come next summer the fun starts.
Wasnt satisfied with my first replica.
By accident i got the neckpocket routed.
So i will try again
Excellent information.
Would love to see you do a video with detailed relicing techniques.
Thank you! I hope I will never build another relic version though.. LOL. That, in and of itself, is a huge undertaking and very hard to make it look convincing.
Great advice. Thanks.
Justin , I think the torch is the way to go , and I believe duplicolor has a satin clear .
Super helpful, thank you
I'm glad you enjoyed it.
10:30 - I like the points you start making at this point in the video.
Thanks!!
Great work, as always. I looked back at the 5150 I did for a friend using Chevy Orange Red and I too have crazing. I used SprayMax 2K clear. I ordered Torch Red for an upcoming "new" build. Still on the fence as to what color I'll use for my Locke relic build. Might reach out to AutomotiveTouchUp for a quote. If I can get away with one can, I might just pay the added cost. I should note that Torch Red isn't easy to find. All my local shops are out and I had to pay a premium - $20 per can.
Thanks Chris! Best of luck on your new project!!!
Are used to work at an auto parts store and in the paint rack we used to have 5150 was Marinello red which is the Ferrari color.
The "550 Maranello" is almost a PERFECT match as well!!! It has the right amount of orange in it. Too bad it's not widely available. ;)
Hey Brian thanks again for this video discussing Eddie's kramer I think I know exactly what color red it was painted with as my best friend is an automotive painter and I remember Eddie's guitar from the 5150 live without a net video looking a lot like the red that chevy corvettes had then so I was researching gm paint codes and there was back then chevy or gm bright red which looks a lot like torch red and Ferrari red and olympic white existed for the 1984 model years along with gm bright red which looked very similar to farrari red as torch red did not come out until 1990. And remember Eddie liked cars too and fast ones.
And yes the Frankie was a diferent animal and I suspect a flatening agent was used in a clear coat on the kramer as the way the colors ran a little and aged as automotive paints were not as advanced as today.
My thing is when I do my Eddie builds is to use the colors that actually were used then
I personally use rust oleum when painting any guitar, it’s really good quality. I made a white and black Frankenstrat out of it and it turned out great
Cool. The tricky part is finding a good color in the Rustoleum lineup to match this specific Chevy orange/red.
@@CoffeeDrinker71 they do have a fluorescent red-orange, that would probably be the closest
This is Fantastic work Thank you so much!!🙏
New Subscriber here for sure.
Thank you very much for the sub! I greatly appreciate it.
Thanks.
Helpful…thx
I bet back in the day, George feliz had no idea how many people decades later would try to imulate his paint/stripe work!
I agree! ;)
What my understanding is, Eddie used a red rattle can of bicycle paint by schwinn, flamboyant red. Amazon carries it. Vintage Schwinn restoration paint.
Wrong guitar. That was the Frankenstrat that you are thinking of. The 5150 (and all of his Kramers) were painted by George Felise at the Kramer shop in NJ.
SCHWIN RED Bicycle Pint is what Eddie VanHalen used... Rustoleum Red is there..
You’re thinking of the Frankenstrat….NOT the 5150!!!! The 5150 was painted by George Felise in the Kramer shop with RM automotive paint. Totally different guitar.
@@CoffeeDrinker71 You are correct 💯 I have had no sleep 😴 in 2 days. Our Mail 📬 box was hit for the 5 time in 9 years. I have a 🧱 brick bottom that surrounds the post that is a flower pot with Vinca Vine pouring over all year & Pansy that crawl down spring part summer & fall to early winter. This is the first one that took out the brick which is Severe Weather Rated Pavers for STREETS... So my wife suggested that we make it the EVH FRANKENSTEIN 📬 mail box. So I have been painting.. We have had rain Sunday thru this Tuesday... So had to cover the post with plastic etc... We live in the country. Retired here from civilization... Drunks Target Mail Boxes ... Everyone that's hit our mail box has at least $2,000 in damages to their car. I have chosen to add more white to the post for visibility. It's black with 3 reflective stickers & the Address Plaque on top is also reflective. Plus 2 reflectors one on each side 12' before the Mail box .. So yeah I'm stuck in my head with the original FtankenStrat... Cheers 🍻 🥃🥃 🎸
@@BackWoodsBillyCraftBeerReviews Oh man! That’s a real bummer about your mailbox! :( That’s cool your wife wants you to make the new one EVH themed!!! That’s a really cool idea. Best of luck!!! Thanks for watching and commenting! Cheers!
@@CoffeeDrinker71 Thanks
I'm gonna do this to my Gretsch. 😮 ..The Malcom Gretsch
Sweet!!! Good luck on your project. That should be a fun one!
I was thinking about going with 1984 Chevrolet Medium Duty Red Orange 71/WA775 from paintscratch.
tod moc
That looks like it would be a very good choice as well! Do you have to special order, or is it available off the shelf?
@CoffeeDrinker71 I'm guessing I'll have e to order from the site. I ha e not seen it anywhere else. The cool thing is that you can get it in rattle cans.
I use PPG automotive paint Delltron base coats and clear.wet sand and rub
That's some high quality paint!!!!
I thought Eddie just spray-painted his guitar with rattle cans. I read multiple articles about his decorating of guitars, and they all say he just did whatever he felt like doing at the moment I don’t think he put near this much thought and effort into what paints he used. And the original one looks fairly hideous when you’re up close to it. But still some pretty good information here especially about not mixing types of paint.
Hi Jeff. Great comments...you're right, Eddie just spray painted his guitar...but not the 5150! He sprayed the Frankenstrat, which is what most people remember. The subject of this video, however is the Kramer 5150 which was sprayed by George Felise at the Kramer shop (see photo at the 18:55 mark). There are other photos of George holding several 5150 bodies in the paint booth which are available online to prove Eddie did not paint any of the 5150 style guitars (and the backups). So, the reason for the video was to help steer fellow builders in a direction that makes more sense when it comes to matching the correct color that George used, especially given the fact that we can no longer use the same paints that he used since they are no longer available. It's been an ongoing debate for many decades....and it has caused a lot of controversy in the "builders forums". LOL. Thanks for watching.
Thanks for this and for bieng accurate concerning the paint on the 5150 guitars as there is a lot of misinformation out there such as saying the 5150 was a popler body maybe the test one was but we all know it was a basswood body as we all know that's what Eddie liked.
As for why you ran into issues trying to use the duplicolor perfect match clear I think I have the answer as when I looked at the ingredients on the scratch filler primer and basecoat color the copyright year said 2009 and the ingredients were acetates ketone and toulene but on the clear the copyright year said 2016 and the ingredients said acetates which is acetone ketone but no longer contained keytone. Which indicates a formulary change which probably explains why you may have run into issues anyway I have started my test run of duplicolor with different colors on a piece of red oak scrap to test what is comparable and not as I like boiled linseed oil first on all my guitar bodies and after letting the wood sit for 3 days then wiping the scrap with 91 percent rubing alchohol the first 3 coats went down successfully of the primer. But I did no sanding as I am testing adhesion then I will test basecoat then I will test duplicolor perfect match clear. To see if it cures.
Anyway I need to be clear and accurate about about automotive paints too that manufactures use as my best friend does automotive paints they have been urathane based since the 1960s and automotive paints have clear in them so Eddie's 5150 guitar probably had clear as it would have been required over his basecoat but knowing Eddie he probably Road tested and insisted that the clear not be glossy and probably did his typical brutality tests by dragging the guitar through a parking lot and he never cleaned his guitars either.
But that was eddie but as for an explanation of why minwax worked it may have contained the ketone in it anyway minwax clear brushing laquar contains a 2005 copyright and that year formulation and that's why I want to get out of spray cans with a few exceptions because of these issues anyway my bet is that the frankenstrat and kramer bodies were Olympic white and Chevy torch red but due to eddies brutality tests the white began to look like Wimbledon white and the red faded to look more orange depending on the light of the picture too but my guess is the red originally probably looked like the red color you would find on corvettes and camaros of the 1980s maybe even a Ferrari red. As remember Eddie loved fast cars too.
Ohh and their is no reason to use engine enamel with ceramic on wood period it's meant for metal like brakes engines headers and high temp applications now if you want to wax your guitar with ceremic wax that's different.
As for me I like gloss on my clear and that's me as I like super jumbo frets eddie liked jumbo or 6105 but that's him.
So that's why I am better off just getting a cheap Chinese neck which ironically costs the same as the boggie bodies neck he originally had on his Frankie same with finding a banana neck to do a kramer build. Because either way I will have to customize it and that's something a lot of these guys forget they want to obsess over even what fretwire Eddie used and spend 2 grand and pay fender or more but here is the thing will you sound like Eddie will it feel comfortable to you and like I said I will not pay big bucks just to have a guitar looked relicked with cracked paint when I am probably spend another 500 bucks to change the fretwire or pay a tech to do it.
And is the truss rod single action or dual action because again if it's not double action forget it like most fenders and normally I don't like skinny dual action 4 mm truss rods but since I have 2 lying around I will make an exception just to get 2 or 3 eddy style guitars necks built but mine will have the action adjustable at the headstock because that's what I like not at the heel of the neck.
And that's another reason why I can't do a mighty Mac or kne build. But that's me and Eddie would say if that's what you like that's what you should do.
Thanks again for watching and commenting. That's very good info about the ketones and other ingredients in the paints! That's why I always advocate and tell viewers to always test out your paints on a piece of scrap first. It will help reveal any potential problems before learning the hard way and ruining a paint job on a body! LOL. It's happened to me a few times. Ha! Anyway I appreciate your input as always.
@@CoffeeDrinker71 yes so the perfect match clear took out the key tones sometime between 2009 and 2016. Anyway I just got done testing duplicolor perfect match base coat part on my red oak scrap now I did not do any sanding once I put the scratch filler primer on and basecoat I only sanded with 180 grit before I applied the scratch filler primer as the porpose for me is to test how the diferent layers react with each other. And to test adhesion and drying and curing.
So Thursday or Friday I will test the duplicolor perfect match clear to see if it drys and hardens. But the secret may be the boiled linseed oil and letting it cure for 3 days and the isopropyl alchohol at 91 percent and wiping the piece of red oak scrap may have promoted some adhesion I know my base coat is looking a little shiny over the Grey primer.
But I would say you still need the deft sanding sealer but try putting boiled linseed oil on the guitar body letting it cure for 15 days then degrease with 91 percent rubing alcohol then go through the process but you might be able to get away with just scratch filler primer from duplicolor but do 4 total coats maybe more then let dry for 3 days before moving on to the basecoat..
Just wondering if using the duplicolor sandable primer but the non perfect match version of that might have caused the issue with the clear. As it is a 3 part system.
For which you are supposed to use together but I will have the answer by this weekend or Monday.
Also I will be testing another system next week on the other side of my scrap and that's the rustoleum universal paint and primer in one that just say acrylic on it but the chalenge is it's really am enamel but is suposedely compatible with laquar and enamel but of course they don't have a sandable primer to go with it so I will be testing the rustoloem 2 in one automotive sandabke primer that's suposed to work with either laquar or enamels then I can test the universel paint and primer as a basecoat then the universal high gloss clear universal from rustoleum but long term except for my own eddie guitar builds I will be getting out of using spray cans only quart cans from one brands but thats the beauty and spirit of Eddie not settling and being willing to find a way to get what you want even out of a paint can and not bieng afraid to ruin something to get what you want and like him or Steve vai and yngwie Malmsteen I don't like to hear it can't be done I just want what I want but what I want might not be what Eddie liked either and that's what all these eddie fans need to remember about him too. @@CoffeeDrinker71
@@gabrielstern4992 Awesome, good luck with the sample!
@@CoffeeDrinker71 update I am testing the duplicolor perfect match clear now on my sample and I can report that there is some leakage from the can luckily it has not harmed my sample yet and if my guitar is hung up vertically it should not get drips of the chemical in it.
So that may be part of the issue was really suorjzed that even after shaking it regularly that unlike the 2009 formulations which sprayed out evenly with no dripping of liquid at all the perfect match clear had dripping of liquid maybe it is fluke but I doubt it and that might explain why it's hard to find on shelves I am thinking maybe it is the toulene missing anyway I will let you know it dried and cured.
But if not I will need to test the watco old formula and new one. In a, spray can but remember the best way to fight back is to just learn how to tint your own mixes and laquars and worst case scenerio you can always learn how to make your own shellac which you can do from the dewaxed shellac resin and denatured alchohol.
Will update soon
I wonder how that Dupli-Color would work on a polyurethane finish. I already have a white guitar, it would be easier to just paint over the existing finish, which is polyurethane.
I probably wouldn't recommend it. I would suspect that there would be some adhesion issues. ...but you can always give it a try and see.
I'm just about to start my 5150 project, but, the body has a very thin poly coat on it already. Can I sand that to get its thin clear coat off and use these paints? Or does ALL the poly have to come off first? Your clip has been a great help, and I went with the Wimbledon White and Torch Red. Cheers!
Hmmm...good question. You might be able to just scuff the original poly finish and start painting over it. I would suggest joining one of the guitar paint groups on FB just to get more specific advice as I have no experience trying this specifically.
@@CoffeeDrinker71 thanks dude, I will, I'm got the paint, stickers and sandpaper. I dont have a clear coat yet, but the Minwax seems to be the fav with this paint combo so I will shop for that too.
@Drinker71 Well, a month later, and a month smarter. Tested the paints on a tester block as you have above, and, in the real light of day, I found the Wimbledon White to have a little coffee tinge to it that didnt match well for me, so, Olympic White it is! Torch Red is dead on for my project. Whites down and curing a few days, then on to the tape. I've got a few picture templates for the tape, and I see the Fat white lines on the front of the guitar are Supposed to be 1/2 inch, that looks really small to my eyes. Whats your call on that? No 3/4 on the front besides the black?
@@mrnobodyinvr9762 Perfect! Isn't it extremely helpful to spray the test board? It helps answer so many questions, and you can make a much better/informed decision about the colors YOU like!! ...and yes, you are correct. The largest white stripes are only 1/2". It will look correct once it's all painted. The black stripes actually range from about .650"-.700" since they are not perfectly straight. If you look real close at the black stripes a few of them are tapered (wider on one end). Hope this helps!
@@CoffeeDrinker71 Your clip has been a Massive help, Thank you for taking the time and effort to make the How-To Demo whilst making your own guitar, its a beauty. The Test boards are 100% needed. I was going to go with Wimbleton White, but when I put it down on the tester block, it was a little too coffee toned for me, I wanted that sharp white, and the tester saved me figuring that out On the guitar. Thanks for the Tape info, my brain keeps locking onto those 1/2 inch front lines, but, I'll stick with the plan and see how it goes. Thanks so much once again for all your info and effort, much appreciated.
Excellent video! I know that you made this some time ago. I'd love to ask a question if I could? What type of tapes did you use on these guitars? Can I ask where you bought the tape from too? Thanks. These guitars looks awesome!
Thank you very much! For these 5150 bodies I used the 3M green Fine Line tapes...but lately I started using the blue vinyl 3M 471+ tape on my latest Bumblebee series, and I think the blue vinyl 471+ tape is much easier to work with. Here is a link to one of the sizes: amzn.to/46XDRbg
Also, if you go directly to Episode 3 of my new "Bee" series, there is a lot of discussion about the blue vinyl 471+ tape, plus links to all the sizes (for the Bee) in the description. I hope that helps! th-cam.com/video/WFVfKCOO9-M/w-d-xo.html
@@CoffeeDrinker71 Thank you very much sir! I subbed to your excellent channel. I'll check these tapes out, and the video too. Thanks again! 👍🏻🎸
@@DeputyVanHalen5150 My pleasure man and I'm glad you enjoyed the videos! Cheers!
Was hoping to ask you one more question if I may? On the guitar body on the right; You painted it Torch Red, what shade of white did you use on that one? Is it Wimbledon White also? Thanks again. I'm definitely using Torch Red, just need to decide on a white. That combination that you did looks excellent under your shop lights. Thanks again. 😁👍🏻
Yes, that is correct. The body on the right side was sprayed with Wimbledon White and the Torch Red combination. That body on the right was actually the one I built completely in this video: th-cam.com/video/ldsXI252AD8/w-d-xo.htmlsi=ltYn9mKR4b7SZdnM
@@CoffeeDrinker71 Thanks again. It looks really good. I think that's the combination that I'll go with. My brother and I fabricated a Knight Rider Trans Am years ago. We painted it in Lacquer, it's great material to work with. Thanks again. 😁👍🏻
@@DeputyVanHalen5150 Thank you very much! I think you'll be really happy with that color combination! Oh wow... a Knight Rider T/A?! SWEET! 😎
There is also the possibility that Ford cardanal red was used but not sure if that existed in 1983. And torch red and chevy bright red look almost identical and yes chevy bright red still exists as a color available in duplicolor perfect match. The importance is that we be as accurate as possible to that time period when Eddie's kramer were built. And remember that torch red did not come out until 1990 but bright red came out in 1983 for the 1984 model years and was used on corvettes.
Hope this helps so at least now I know what to paint my Eddie builds with and the codes of color. So thanks again for trying to cut through the nonsense of misinformation out there about the colors of edfies guitars because the aged look or today's look does not mean that's what the colors originally were so just because the red looks more orange today does not mean the color was orange or the white was Wimbledon white either.
Yes, lots of good points there! You're right, the Torch Red was a newer color, not available at the time that the Kramer was built. The other options you mentioned are definitely good too...the Bright Red, or the Ferrari Red. I looked at a few of them. With the inconsistency of the old film-based photos, it's really hard to determine. I think the point I was trying to make was that sometimes you just have to go with your best instinct and also take a little bit of creative freedom when deciding what's best for you...which might also be driven by which style/brand of paint systems a person plans to use. So, yeah...it's the ongoing struggle! LOL.
@@CoffeeDrinker71 yes I was just pointing out the likely scenerios but also my memories of the live without a net video which by the way on VHS is much clearer than on you tube for which I played often from the time I was 8 years old till I wore out years later. And it was defenetely not orange at all it looked exactly like those corvettes from. The 1980s and Ferraris and even camaros and the white defenetely looked like olympic white and yes olympic white was used as a paint code when the kramers were built and the bright red had just come out as a paint code and yes you can still get it in duplicolor perfect match and by the way bright red is almost identical to torch red because my buddy who knows paint codes and especially gm stuff was telling me that.
But it cracks me up with all these guys saying use this use that thinking they know they don't and I know engine enamel with ceremic did not even exist in 1984.
It came out like 20 years age there was ceramic coatings for headers in the 1990s but not the engine enamel with ceremic so why the heck would you paint a guitar body with it unless you plan to heat your guitar up in a oven and hope the wood does not burn.
@@gabrielstern4992 Yeah, lots of good points made here. I agree...I dislike that enamel engine paint! It definitely was not designed for this purpose! LOL. ...and yep, so many people want to debate the colors and the paint type in the EVH groups.
The red paint that you’re using in the 5150 no relic, it can be reliqued easily? Idk Cause that’s not a fragile paint like you said with the relic one, and also in the not relic 5150 the both paints are lacquers so i idk pls help me
Correct...the non-relic'd 5150 I used lacquer paints which "burn" into each other. It would be harder to relic I suppose than an enamel but I could be wrong.
Hey brian sorry to chime in again but I think I can definateky say with certainty exactly what colors Eddie's kramers were painted with I figured it out while looking at my yamaha rgx 110 which is a rare made in Taiwan model and has a very unique neck pocket profile and the body is a, basswood body just like edies Frankie and kramers were.
And even has one humbucker and volume just like Eddie's kramers had but has a fender style trem just like edies Frankie had originally.
And just like that Frankie when you dive won't stay in tune or go out of tune.
So my original one I destroyed years ago with the neck was a red color just like the red of eddies kramer but also the kramer Sammi Hager used on the 5150 tour on songs like live walks in and why can't this be love as seen from the live without a net video and that color would be brand new gm bright red.
But my yamaha just like my old one I aquired recently looked like a, Ford Wimbledon white but when I looked where the neck plate cover was it looked exactly like gm olympic white and this guitar and my original that was red both had clear on them. Because i remember when I stripped my original having a boatload of clear on it to strip away before the red came off and then the primer down to the bare wood.
So most likely Eddies kramer would have had a cheap automotive laquar i know he had several kramers made but I am thinking the one he used the most was painted in automotive nitro laquar I know my yamahas were.
So I am saying this because even if you clear it if it was painted with 1980s nitro laquar in Taiwan it would yellow giving that yellow look.
And considering Eddie drank a lot of budwiesers and smoked cigerettes it would not shock me if real drunk he spilled beers all over his fretboards and on the guitar body which would relic a guitar pretty quickly. Including causing that paint bleed on his 5150s I can just tell from looking at the 5150 from the live without a net video at least on the neck from that laqusr wear on the fretboard.
Anyway hope this helps put all the rumurs and garbage I have seen on the internet about Eddie's paint colors to bed once and for all. And like you said these guys don't realize you can't go by paints of today as the formulas are different and also looks can be deceiving.
But I don't like guys on the internet thinking they know his colors and they don't.
And if you really want to be accurate to how the kramers paint color scheme was originally then their are plenty of videos like the live without a net for which you can get on DVD and even if you had the VHS like I had and wore out I remember that white looking like olympic white VS TH-cam and the red bieng very much like bright red.
And better yet you can see on you tube the live in Montreal footage too.
Or even better the jump video will tell you too or the kramer in the hard rock Cafe or Smithsonian.
Anyway hope that helps and unless clear urathane from the 1980s yellowed the only thing I can think of is old scholl nitrocelulose laquar.
Hope this info helps amd thank God my old scholl yamaha from 1987 with the original paint leaves good clues.
Hi Gabriel, that's a lot of good information! Good detective work as usual! Yeah, I would agree that the red color is probably a GM color. We know that George Felise was using R/M automotive brand paints at the Kramer shop...he's proven that. The question is...what type of paint was it? ...and I'm guessing single stage automotive because clear coat systems were not invented yet in 1983 time frame.
@@CoffeeDrinker71they did have them in 1983 but they were not like today at all my best friend is a body shop guy and knows all about automotive paints I just had to comment on a another TH-camr who was saying use engine enamel gm bright orange ceramic that did not exist until 20 years ago and trying to insist and read to much into Eddie's fingerboard laquar wear forgetting Eddie drank like a chimney and those budwieser beers so it would not suprize me if he spilled beers on his guitars and fretboards which will cause laquar and even urathane to crack and wear off.
And yes automotive urathane can yellow too according to my buddy especially the old style.
And not just old school nitro laquar. And don't forget Paul unker painted some early kramers for Eddie too.
And I suspect those so called popler kramers were test ones that Eddie used in videos and backups. That's another one going around we all know eddie loved basswood so the 1984 and 5150 kramers were basswood and there were more than one of them too.
And no the Frankie was not made of swamp ash either Eddie clearly said basswood several times.
But I think kramer did make one that looked like the Frankie I did see that with a kramer neck but if you look closely the neck pickup is black and not painted.
@@CoffeeDrinker71 a lot of guitar manufactures used automotive paints and usually left overs or older ones still do I think my yamaha even though it was made in Taiwan I suspect would have used left over gm colors maybe Ford and mine has clear over basecoat but it's not very glossy wondering if they used shellac over basecoat but shellac is very glossy and polly is very glossy but the amount of clear I think that was used back then was not very much maybe a coat or 2. And very light. And I remember most guitars and cars back then did not have very glossy clears some did but not like today. I know guitars had a lot of metalic effects like glitter and stuff and were colorful VS the 1990s but still I don't remember the clears bieng as thick or glossy back then.
Hope that helps but let's say today I think quality control is becoming an issue like it was in the 1970s like I said before with jackson.
And I am noticing the evh brand seems to be deviating too much from Eddie's vision with the color schemes the kill switches are fine and I understand why Eddie added them to his guitars in his later years because he could duplicate his mxr phase 90 effects right on his guitar on songs like the cradle will rock live a lot easier and directly himself but it's getting ridiculous. And I would say to those guys going nuts over his pickups you know if you want Eddie's authentic 5150 tone my stock yamaha rgx pickup from 1987 can give you that sound but a emg 81 active pickup in a basswood body will give you more of that sound with some reverb thrown in.
And how do I know I am right because Zac wylde who is a huge Eddie freak and randy Rhodes guy uses them in almost all of his guitars
With the 85 in the neck.
Ohh and don't forget randy Rhodes had a very similar tone and adrian Smith of iron maiden and ohh adrain used Ibanez destroyers too with the exact same pickup in the bridge as eddies Ibanez destroyer too but adrain smiths was red.
And we know eddie used his destroyer for all his rhythms on the first 2 van Halen albums with the switch set to just the bridge pickup and the tone all the way up.
Because Eddie never used the tone knobs on any of his guitars.
I am just mentioning it because I think it has gotten out of hand with all of this speculation but then again I forgot there was always that stuff when Eddie was alive and back In The 1980s and 1990s too.
And yes he was great and magical in his own way but I think people forget getting his tone can come from surprisingly simple and common things with out breaking the bank and can be achieved multiple ways.
And that's how it should be.
Hi, here's one question I have that I didnt find the answer to in the clip. HOW LONG do you, or Can you, leave the tape on after the red coats? an hour? a day? a week? Is there a best time to peel it, or is it all the same?
For me personally, I like to remove it as soon as the red feels dry to the touch...maybe an hour? ...maybe a few hours... The reason I like to remove it as early as possible is to reduce the chances of any type of reaction between the adhesive from the tape and the color underneath.
@@CoffeeDrinker71 Good call, I will do the same, thanks!
@@CoffeeDrinker71 Thank you again, you've been so kind with the info, its really helped a lot. Sunny out there today, its Tape Day. Thanks!
Can you make me one? Or where can I buy one?
Is the dupli color perfect match can be reliced easy?
It's fairly easy because it's really a "base coat" style acrylic lacquer. It doesn't harden quite like an enamel product would.
I'm actually having a hard time finding that Deft lacquer sanding sealer around my area. And, I don't feel like ordering it for $30 for one quart. Do you think that I could use a waterbased sanding sealer instead?
I really have no experience with anything other than lacquer sanding sealer. I guess you could substitute with a clear coat instead???
@@CoffeeDrinker71 thanks, dude. No worries. I’ll just order that Deft sanding sealer 😊
I'm using the orange red on mine. I plan on doing a non relic 5150 and am not really sure which white to use. I know Wimbledon white is kind of an off white used on relics mostly but what do you recommend for a brand new 5150? I see all of the different whites at the store and am a little overwhelmed by the choices.
It's all subjective of course, but I think the consensus is still to use the Wimbledon White even for the non-relics. I built a non-relic version recently (video on my channel) and I used the Wimbledon White for it too. Yes, it's got a softer tone to it, more like a cream white but it does blend well with the orange red. I've compared a few other "whites" and they look too bright. Of course I always suggest spraying a quick sample board just to make sure before you fully commit on your actual guitar body. Good luck!
Also keep in mind the color of the lid is sometimes off the mark from what the actual paint inside the can will spray in reality.
@@CoffeeDrinker71 thanks so much! I’ll definitely do a sample board. The amount of dupli color whites is a little overwhelming.
@@Randomveteran It really is!!! I totally feel your pain. For reference I used the DupliColor "Olympic White" for my '78 B/W Frankenstrat project video. It's definitely more of a brighter white than the Wimbledon White...probably too bright for what you are looking for on a 5150 project.
Hey brian I pinpointed for sure what Eddies gm colors used would have been and possible other codes but most highly unlikely concerning whites gm offered.
So gm bright red paint code for which duplicolor does sell for the perfect match bssecoat is the corect one to do the red for a 5150 kramer build but also I think for the kramer barrata Sammi Hager used on the 5150 tour as seen in the live without a net video.
As for the whites it is most likely olympic white as the gm bright white paint code as seen on the duplicolor cans did not come out until 1991 just like gm torch red did not come out until 1991.
Now there was a paint code for something called gm brightest white that was a single stage paint code that was, used from 1977 to 1988 that got replaced with a 2 stage paint code that was, slightly whiter than olympic white but I highly doubt that was used by George seliz.
As for Eddie's kramer builds the misinformation concerning Eddie's kramers all bieng Popler bodies does continue to persist and I do believe some of Eddie's early prototype kramers in black and red he was given were Popler that Paul unker may have built and painted but the iconic one from the 5150 tour as was most of eddies back ups were all basswood including the 1984 guitar.
Now is it possible the kramer guitar from the hot for teacher video with the angled pickup barrata style guitar was a Popler body absolutely.
Finally a few weeks ago I called out someone on his channel for telling viewers eddies frankenstrat was made of northern ash a d that eddies Frankenstrat was made by someone who worked for Wayne charvel and was rushing to put out bodies we all know eddies original Frankie was made of basswood but he instists that someone who worked for guitar world picked up the Frankie itself and said the guitar felt heavy as hell like northern ash and not light like basswood but here's the thing the guy did not take into account that eddies Frankie neck and fretboard was made of maple wood which adds weight and thaf if you stick an original floyd rose trem system in the body especially from back then without any titinium saddles in it or titinium bridge they were heavy as hell and would make the guitar fell as heavy as northern ash.
As the luthier and guitar builder names Chris disgusted on his highline guitars channel on post he did last week on Guitar weight and does your guitar feel to heavy.
As for the possibility that more than one Frankie was made for Eddie later on years before the 2007 limited edition run absolutely and that Eddie had more than one Frankie considering charvel made a bunch of guitars for Eddie before what happened in 1979.
And we know eddie wanted kramer to reproduce as a, signature series the Frankie
But kramer thought it would not be esthetically pleasing as Paul unker discussed who knows maybe I will be dumb one of these days and do a duplicolor engine enamel with ceramic guitar paint job and watch it not come out correctly.
Just like duplicolor brake enamel colors with cerimic heck maybe I will then put it in an oven at 500 degrees to bake it and watch the wood explode and catch on fire just to show why you don't use that stuff on wood or a guitar body
Anyway hope this helps
Great information on those paint colors! So you are saying they used GM WA8774? I think the Duplicolor version is BGM-0388? I just looked it up. On the screen it definitely looks really, really close! Great eye!!!!
@@CoffeeDrinker71correct which is bright red under duplicolor but that gm code 8774 comes back as bright red that code you described but olympic white is the corect and most likely used white from gm.
But like I said there was a, slightly lighter white called gm brightest white that was a single stage paint code until 1988 when it got replaced with a 2 stage paint code as bright white did not come out until 1991 just like torch red. And Brian torch red is extremely simalar but so is Ford cardinal red which has just a tad more orange looking so it's easy for people to mix up based off of a picture and video and assume thats the actaul color I mean I just looked at the live without a net videos posted on you tube and was rememembering Eddie's colors amd pictures were much clearer on VHS tape VS this and I certainly remember the 5150 not quite looking so orangish either.
And I also know the light cam distort a, Color from the reflection of the stage lights.
But Brian you defenetely got the olympic white correct VS your other build with the Ford Wimbledon white. You just needed to know the correct red gm code that's all.
But hey if you want to still go for an aged look and use torch red and Wimbledon white that's fine too and even use torch red that's fine too I just think it's important.
That you and others know what codes were actually used and most likely for those years and yes bright red is showing as starting in model year 1984 but remember by July 1983 that paint code would have already been released. Which is right in that window in time for the 1984 tour and remember at the 1983 us festival Eddie was still using the Frankie live or one of them.
For those who are so into wanting eddies details maybe it's a good thing I am in my mid to late 1940s and am very technical and have a good friend who is knowledgeable about paint codes
I just wish people would stop with getting eddies guitar body woods wrong including the kne guitar guys or mighty might or whoever that is selling 5150 build bodies as popler bodies and that's fine if you want to do that but don't say it's built to that guitars exact details because it's not unless it's a basswood body. Because remember eddie especially in live performances always came back to basswood bodies and he just liked what he liked and their is nothing wrong with that.
If i buy a Kramer 1984 and send it to you , can you paint me one of these ? And how much would you charge me
I use duplicolor and have used painters tape and the weird automotive paint tape but I still have some red run on my stripes. Why??? Lol can you tell me what the reason could be? I thought the tape was flat enough every time but every attempt is the same. Some red marks or run onto my stripes
When you say "painter's tape", what exactly are you referring to? If you are talking about a household painter's tape like "Frog Tape" or something for interior wall painting, that will not work. But...you're issue could be that the underlying base coat is rough? Check that. Or, the tape edges aren't sealed down properly. Check that by running your thumbnail down the edge, or a plastic credit card, etc. to ensure the edge of the tape is making full contact. Finally, you can spray a light coat of the original color on top of the tape to help seal it down and prevent the 2nd color (the red) from bleeding under the tape edges since it will be sealed off with the white mist coat.
@@CoffeeDrinker71 I’ll try a few tests and see what works for me thank you! I was using the 3m blue tape but same thing as frog tape. this time around I was using the vinyl automotive paint tape because it’s thinner. Thanks for the response! This is my 3rd or 4th attempt at the guitar now lol it’s been a dream guitar and I’ve wanted to do it myself like Eddie did so it’s very discouraging when the stripe paint has some red marks because that just screws it all up for me lol I have all your videos saved for when I try again. Thank you for the response and I’ll check/do everything you recommended! Take care!
@@ricklepick5134 Also before you scrap another paint job....you can "try" to wet sand out the red spots that have bled into your white. If your white base coat is thick enough, you can take something like 1500 grit (just cut a very small precise square), and wet sand along the edge of the white stripe to help remove the red that has spilled under your tape. I've had to do this on more than one occasion. The wet sanding technique should be fairly light, just enough to remove the red that is sitting on top of the white...but not too heavy to remove all of the white....make sense?
@@CoffeeDrinker71 yes sir! I appreciate all the help! I’d rather do that than start all over again lol it’s not major red on the white but just little bits here and there but they’re noticeable enough for me to want them gone lol
Hello, wondering what black do you use? Thanks!!
I've used either Duplicolor Perfect Match "Universal Black" (Gloss), or the Duplicolor "Acrylic Lacquer" in gloss black. Both options are usually widely available at your local auto parts store.
@@CoffeeDrinker71 Thanks for the quick response! I thought it was going to be gloss, but I saw there were a lot of different options as far as flat black matte black etc so i wanted to clear up any confusion. Thanks again!
@@wrathchildd6218 Yes I totally understand. There are so many options out there! And, in all honesty, the "gloss" version really doesn't look too glossy after it dries. It's actually closer to a "semi-gloss". But yes, stick with the black lacquer that's labeled as "Gloss" and you'll be fine! ;)
@@wrathchildd6218 In my full length 5150 build video, you'll see me using that black lacquer at the 24 minute mark. th-cam.com/video/ldsXI252AD8/w-d-xo.htmlsi=-jcGK_Fk9ax0rqCh&t=1444
Where did you get the neck from?
Which neck? I've got a Musikraft neck on this particular 5150 lying on the bench...but the other 5150 body by KNE also has a matching KNE neck. You can email Mitch directly or visit this page: www.kneguitars.com/necks/neck_index.htm
@@CoffeeDrinker71I was talking about the KNE. Thanks for the information. It is pretty hard to find the right kind of banana neck.
@@DRAK_cyborg yes it really is. Don't forget to check out Locke Custom Guitars as well. They make some insanely accurate necks with the extra tuning peg option as well!
@@CoffeeDrinker71 oh okay! I'll check them out. Thanks for the help!
@@CoffeeDrinker71 I have one more question. What size tape do I need for all of the stripes?
Warning to you tube when I am typing a response stop making my text disappear this is the third time I have tried to send a response the first time it was an error ocured so I copied and pasted but then that disapeared so then I attempted to type a response and that disapeared enough that's not nice or polite to those when typing enough with the bots ad automating stuff without testing it to see how it actually reacts in the real world same with reformulating paints same with guitar companies making changes to their guitar designs but have a lack of quality control like fender and jackson or Gibson but still charge high prices enough or ebay or Amazon and their descriptions of what they are selling
If you're a red Chevy Camero or Corvette owner trying to spray out of a can of spray paint instead of using a proper airbrush spray gun whooo doggies you might be the Dukes of Hazzard paint retouch crew!!!😝🤩🚯