Great video, I am a service and installer technician for one of the brand generator you have in your video. For residential unit many customers buy their units and forget to have them serviced. Maintenance cost are high.
Hi Mark. Thanks for writing in. Would you be interested in coming on the show as an expert guest to discuss proper generator maintenance and other considerations if using a generator to charge batteries? If so, please email us at info@solarsurge.net
I have an 8KW Generac standby generator that operates on natural gas. It is about 10 years old, plus or minus. I have a contract with the only authorized Generac service company in the SF Bay Area (in my part of the Bay Area anyway). I have a maintenance contact and it is serviced once a year. What you didn’t mention is that this generator (and I assume other generators in its class) is basically a motorcycle engine in a box. It requires similar maintenance that is required for a motorcycle. I have had battery issues and electronics issues with it. I purchased the extended warranty (thank goodness) and have had many parts replaced. The need for replacement parts has typically been discovered when the generator fails to either switch over after a power outage or it won’t start up. In my ten-ish years of ownership, it has worked about 50% of the time. One other source of failure that you didn’t mention is the transfer switch. It is a mechanical part that has failed to switch when commanded by the electronics because it was burnt out. The last issue that standby generator owners need to be aware of is what the customer mix is of the company that services their generator. Generac’s largest market is commercial generators, not residential generators. At least twice I was unable to get the attention of my maintenance company (a really large, nationwide company) because their maintenance contracts are with businesses and those customers get the first attention of the maintenance company when there is an outage and generators aren’t working. I am watching these videos because my next step is to get solar power with battery backup as soon as practical. I’ll keep the generator as a way to charge the battery in the event of a long power blackout. But I absolutely do not want to deal with Generac or its maintenance vendor in my area if I can help it.
I use Non Ethanol Gas in mine portable generator and have left fuel in it a year in Florida where the humidity is always high. No problem. Now if I have a hurricane coming I'll burn regular car gas through the power outage. Then drain the tank put in a gallon of non ethanol gas and run it an hour. I put it away storing it with non ethanol gas. Carb cleaning is a thing of the past.
I didn’t hear any mention of the noise. Combustion generators are LOUD. After even a 24 hour outage, most customers are more than ready to have them off (in a not-a-supplement-to-battery/solar scenario). And for an extended grid outage, you’re drawing attention to the fact you still have power.
Another good one. I wanted to add a comment about gasoline storage. Here in Calif. our reformulated gasoline is CRAP and it goes bad fast, not really feasible to store. My work around is 2 fold. Primary, we do do have So Cal Gas service which is very reliable so I did a Nat Gas conversion on a Champion 5K hybrid inverter style gen. The output does derate a bit on Nat Gas. Secondarily, I keep both our cars full of gasoline so in a really bad situation we do have access to about 35 gallons of relatively fresh fuel. I'm not suggesting that siphoning gasoline out of a car is for everyone but it does solve the storage problem for those willing. DO NOT EVER TRANSFER GASOLINE FROM YOUR CAR OR ANY OTHER CONTAINER IN A CLOSED SPACE. Also worth mentioning is that most decent back up inverters have Generator support that operates similar to the Peak Load Shave feature which limits the current draw from the Gen based on a user settable amperage value. Short term Excess power like a toaster or coffee maker being used is supplied by batteries. Thus a smaller, less expensive generator is still very functional even though it may only be 3 to 5Kw.
@@SolarSurge Yes, we do have a few places that sell high quality 101 Octane racing fuel. If stabilizer were added I suspect it would be fine for the 1 to 2 years shelf life usually claimed by the various products.
We ran out of propane 5 days into Hurricane Sandy. Our local propane company who we've been "friends" with since highschool told us they would not come to refill us... They needed to serve their bigger customers. They said "We are not coming. Find another way".
Non-ethanol fuel is a must for small engines. It’s not available in all areas but most newer stations vary it. It stores sealed for about a year vs 2-3 months for E10. Propane will never go bad, literally the container will go bad before the fuel. Also remember that there is about a 15% de-rate if you convert a gasoline Gen to propane. Can you talk about islanding with a grid tie system? I’ve heard that, especially inverters generators, can cause issues because there is no frequency advance during an over production when a grid tie would normally backfeed the grid.
Hi Matthew and thanks for the feedback. Yes it's true about the non-ethanol fuel being the best for small engines and long term storage. That's all I use now. For safety reasons, it's best to completely isolate your grid-tie solar system from a portable generator. The generator has no ability to regulate the solar power output and there is a chance the solar panels could backfeed the generator causing permanent damage to the generator.
Good video, pointing out the practical differences between alternate generator approaches. One thing not mentioned was maintenance. There are a couple of Generacs in our neighborhood, and I know those run occasionally as part of their regular maintenance. (Seems to me that over time, this would make a dent into your 500 allocated warranty hours.) There are other maintenance items as well, although the fuel differences, as pointed out in the video, are key. Last, some comment about noise levels seem appropriate. You may not care about noise during an outage event, but neighbors might- particularly when the generators run as part of their scheduled maintenance runs.
Hi Ken. Thanks for writing in. Yes, many of my neighbors use the Generac automatic standby generators also. They seem to run at least once a month for about 10 minutes just for routine maintenance. The Generac are definitely more quiet than portable gas generators.
Have the auto standby generator, mine runs one a week for 10 minutes. It tells me when it wants the oil changed, Have had it installed for 5 years and still don;t have 200 hrs on it yet. But the piece of mind that I won't have to pack up in the middle of a snow storm and get to a shelter is great.
Hi Joe, Which Solar system operates the scenario you described of the 2 wire connection control of the generator to only come online at preset battery percentage? SolarEdge, Enphase, etc?
@@SolarSurge What have you heard about the SolarEdge Energy Hub that has Generator integration. A great video would be one that compares the top 3 options for a hybrid Solar, Battery and Generator system. Pros and Cons
Seriously thinking about generac 18-22kw range as battery storage is more expensive at the moment. Waiting for cheaper battery tech. However just watched a UK video and a battery panel can have a payback period of anywhere from 5-10 years depending upon costs. The key is if one has a night time electricity program then the equation for 5-10 years works (differential between rates). We dont have one yet (incentive program) so its more like +18 years payback (battery alone no solar). Wouldn't consider gas at all, just propane or NG. Since we have propane boiler in the house (in floor heat and ranges) I can run a line from existing tanks to a generator. However just installed two heat pumps to reduce dependency on propane for winter heating.
From experience I have seen that portable generators also seem more likely to fail if run at very low load over time. Running as close to 50% of max load as feasible seems to be most reliable in addition to being more efficient.
@@SolarSurge interesting observation. It shouldn’t be that way with quality 4 stroke engines. My Honda small air cooled engines have no such problem. Maybe good break in, maybe materials used for cylinder and rings, maybe fuel air ratio, maybe frequent oil change, maybe synthetic oil??? Plan for oil changes.
The house I purchased has a Generac 16kw propane Guardian generator and 150a transfer switch. I have installed an off grid solar system and would like to keep the generator for charging the four 12kw 51.2v 228ah batteries and power the house when the batteries drop off. The system has been installed for 2 years now and the batteries have only dropped off 3 times due to bad weather. I was able to manually bypass the transfer switch each time but that is a hassel in bad weather! LOL! My question (and I asked the Inverter company and a Generac installer with no luck) is there a 2 wire change kit or some other way to make my generator work in conjunction with my inverters thru the dry contacts? That way my inverters would be the switch. The problem is the Generator will turn on but when the power goes back on the transfer switch just shuts down since power is restored. This happened once and I figured it out and bypassed the transfer switch untill the batteries were charged and went back to battery mode. I just want it to be automatic adon't realy want to fork out the bucks for a new off grid generator. Thanks in advance for any help you can lend.
If you are using gasoline to fuel a generator (or any small gas engine) only use non ETOH fuel. Your machine will run easier and longer with less maintenance.
Hi Joe, Great content! I had a 20Kw Briggs and Stratton stand by generator with an ATS installed a year or so ago, and it works great, but I'd also like to have a battery backup for the house to survive for at least a little while - something like a rack of the Gyll LiFePO4 batteries that DavidPoz did a couple of videos on. Just not sure what I would need to do the retrofit to make it use the batteries first, and then the generator, and then have the generator charge the batteries back up etc, like you mentioned in the video. I like the content, so you earned a subscribe - keep up the great work!
Thank you sir. In this case, you could use a battery hybrid inverter like the Outback Radian or Sol-Ark paired with those Gyll batteries. The hybrid inverter will act as an automatic transfer switch and it can control the generator via 2-wire remote start.
@@SolarSurge Right after I posted that, maybe two videos later I watched your video comparing the Sol-Ark 12 ad the Outback Radian, so I should have just waited. I also learned that you live in Central VA. I too am in VA, just Northern VA close to Winchester. We might need to chat - just not sure how far your service / project area is?
Enjoy all your videos. Currently installing EnPhase Solar. Considering adding a small battery backup (EnPhase or Tesla) for refrigerator, freezer, WiFi and lights/TV. We don’t have many power outages in AZ. That could change. One option I’m considering is using the 7.2kw power generator capability of the 2021 Ford F-150 PowerBoost as a emergency backup power solution. This would allow me to recharge the battery backup (if solar can’t due to weather or we use more power after sunset than the battery can supply) and provide emergency power at night after sunset. Have you given any thought to producing a video using the F-150 in this type of situation? It solves fuel storage issues and eliminates the need for someone like myself who doesn’t have use for a portable generator other than for backup emergency purposes. At $750 this option on the F-150 PowerBoost seems like a less expensive solution. Plus I can power a small portable fridge/freezer unit or an electric griddle when camping/fishing/hunting or even a travel trailer in off grid situation.
Hi and thanks for writing in. Yes, I do believe the Ford F150 PowerBoost would be superior to the portable gas generator for the reasons you mentioned. As of right now, only Enphase is promising the ability to recharge solar batteries using a generator.
Hi and thanks for writing in. Great questions. Diesel generators are more fuel efficient than gasoline and, because diesel burns cooler, the engines typically have a much longer service life. However, diesel engines are very difficult to start in extreme cold temps. I have heard reports about people in Texas who were not able to start their diesel tractors to run PTO generators during the deep freeze.
For long term grid down diesel is definitely the way to go. It's much easier to source and transport. Diesel also stores well with additives. Diesel motors are designed to last thousands of hours and start just fine in the cold if you know what you're doing. I live in Canada, the Texas deep freeze was a balmy day for me
Diesel keeps for 25+years and will always be cheaper than propane, running propane on a dual fuel will give you less running watts. Getting a diesel generator with a storage tank is going to be your best option and you can let it stay in the carbs without gumming it up like gas will. Food for thought!
I’ve had to treat diesel when it’s been in bulk. Algae and condensation are things you need to watch for. Propane doesn’t suffer from storage issues other than rust. Personally I keep both given my 4wd is diesel.
For my generator, I use both propane & ethanol free gasoline stored in metal safety cans outside in a shed…I also have a Bluetti AC200P with 600w solar panels…If I bug out, I can take all my equipment with me…
Hi what I want is to add wind power as my generator as the wind runs here 75% of the year and can gerenater 500 to 1000watts with a small turbine. It would plug in to the socket provided for a portable gas generator I assume. Running all day is would keep the battery topped up then overflow to the grid along with excess solar. Is that feasible?
Great video Joe, can i ask... when using a generator with solar/battery am i right in thinking you feed the gen power to the main panel and then just let the solar sync to that instead of the grid.. ?
Not exactly. Most hybrid solar inverters or system controllers will have a dedicated generator input. The solar inverter's transfer switch will replace a traditional generation ATS.
Hi, I’m new to your channel and enjoying what videos I’ve watched so far. I am considering solar, but would want the panels mounted off the ground, no holes in the roof. Have you talked about wind power any? Thanks.
Thanks for the videos @Joe. Can you maybe make a video for various types of monitoring systems available in the market (Tesla, SEMs, Enlighten, solarEdge and others)? Also maybe a comparison video for monitoring systems that can be added to legacy solar systems? Thanks!
Hi Joe, I’ve been told by a few electricians that you cannot or should not use a generator to attempt to charge the batteries on my grid tied solar system. Please can you tell me how you’re getting around the lack of pure sign wave and the fluctuations in power from the generator. Thanks Michael 👍🏾
I'm not an electrician but I do make use of a hybrid inverter that is currently grid tied and I would like to add a gen asap. That said, gen will replace the grid connection to simplify the intended use for the inverter to distribute power to the batteries and house when needed but further than that, if you consider that the gen can be told by the inverter to charge the batteries at a predetermined timeframe, when the house is using minimal power. Your question ties into this, relating to size of the generator. Generators have standby power and continuous. Distance and correct sizing of the generator will effect power fluctuations in the form of frequency. Some robust inverters can be told to except a wider range. Pure sign wave, im not sure Ive heard this argument made before but to my understanding, dirty power in, dirty power out. You have to spend big money on the generator and be a maintenance freak to insure the power going out is clean.
I have a system that is 12.75 Kw and a Battery from Enphase the is 10KW, I need a portable Gen just to charge the battery if need. Will any Gen work? what do you recommend? I think Enphase will void the warranty if we use a portable Gen.
What on grid solar battery systems are able to be charged via solar and generator? It’s becoming very frustrating to find a battery system that can do this
Yes, you can use an inverter generator. However, be sure to match the voltage. Most solar inverters require 240 V input for battery charging some inverter generators only output 120 V.
Joe, you should mention open frame generators are terrible for most house components and are truly designed to run power construction equipment. Todays home refrigerators and freezers, cell phones, computers and any sensitive electronic equipment can and will burn out easily with open frame (non pure-sign-wave inverter power). I would only use a pure sign wave inverter generator to run my home, but of course many generator companies do not sell large watt inverter generators. Champion Power Equipment has recognized this void and no offers many open frame inverter option up to 8K now. They are twice the cost but half the noise, but worth it. Funny, ask how many RV'ers have destroyed their RV's using open frame non inverter generators. A lot!
Hi Steve, and thanks for writing in. That's a good point. I have personally blown out my internet router twice while running off the Honda open frame generator when it misfires. The portable generators are not good for running sensitive electronics. When I run mine, it's strictly for battery charging.
I blew up the fridge electronics twice with a honda em5500cxs generator. The seller of the refrigerator does not want to give me another guarantee for the future if I still use this machine to directly charge my batteries. Then I found the solution, I bought a studer 8000 extender inverter and connected it directly to the generator and only to the batteries et voila, no more problems with the electronics while I charge the batteries. The only thing I'm going to change is the generator because officially it gives 5500 watts but measuring the batteries there is only 3550 watts left, so I'm looking for a stronger one and this one is not easy to find.
Hey Joe! Have you seen a successful Enphase Sunlight Backup + Generator combo without a battery? What sort of advantages or limitations exist here when backfeeding two sources of power in a grid down scenario?
Hi Theil. Great question. The sunlight back up generator combination is only meant to provide short-term smooth transition from Grid to generator power. For example, you could have your computers and networking equipment on the sunlight back up so they would never lose power even for a few seconds while waiting for the generator to fire up.
great video! really helped me decide how to optimize my backup generator setup. currently I use a honda gasoline powered inverter generator 65is(5500W) as my main backup generator with two honda handi eu3000i generators wired in parallels as my secondary backup system. Have a 30amp reliance manual transfer switch attached to the home electric panel....might convert my gas generators to propane like you suggest...thx!
Great info., love your thorough presentation style!! I really want the Solar/Standby Generator hybrid system! I live in the Ocala National Forest and service is sometimes hard to come by, especially in Hurricane scenarios. So if you were doing this all from scratch in 2022, and price were no object, what would be your recommendation on the "best" system? By that I mean brand names, etc. Remember this is just your opinion, so feel free to name names!! To clarify, I want Solar running the house and a standby gen. to charge the battery for the Solar System! And my house, based on calculations for a standby system, would require a 22 kw standby only, if I were to go that route. I am thinking the hybrid system would require less kw to charge the battery.
I have an off grid system with the following generator and batteries; 12-Batteries 600amps AGM12V200A and Generator 3200 Watt 120V Carb compliant. In your scenario of turning on as 40% and off at 85% how long would the generator run? This is an Aims system with the Aims Inverter PICOGL12KW. Just trying to get an idea.
We had a Generac Guardian standby generator with ATS installed before switching to solar. We opted for the Generac power cell system but Generac still has not integrated their inversor to turn on our generator if needed. Any idea when this upgrade will be available? We live in hurricane alley PR and need to have plans A (grid), B (solar) , C (batteries) & D (stby generator) in place just in case, before our Maria PTSD kicks in. Thanks for the great content.
Thanks for the feedback. Generac tells me that the inverter-generator integration should be available Q3 2021. I will follow up with more details as they emerge.
Excellent information, I'm in the California Desert and my air conditioner runs continuously during the summer ( day & night) I live in the city but I want to get rid the electricity company. I already have a solar system and I'm connected to the grid but I do not have a battery back up system. Is there such a generator that would run after sundown for 4 to 6 months out of the year so I can run this house as if it was off the grid? Can I actually do what I'm thinking of doing? I'd appreciate your response. Tkx
Hi. Yes, what you are proposing is possible, but the fuel cost would be extreme. You might want to consider a combination of generator and a battery-inverter system. The house would run off batteries all the time. The generator would be used to re-charge the batteries if the solar panels couldn't keep up.
It would be nice if a generator and inverter company would team up and develop an inverter that would allow both the solar array and the generator to run simultaneously and not require a battery in order to use the solar panels when the grid is down. It is nuts to require an expensive battery simply to be able to use the solar panels when the grid is down.
18kw solar system and 3 pws. If there’s no power for a week and cloudy all week, before batteries fully drain bc of lack of solar could a generator plugged into the homes dryer 240 outlet to charge them??
Sol-Ark is a modular inverter that can be paired with just about any 48V battery and any generator. The Generac PWRCell system must use Generac components end-to-end from the solar array, to the inverter, to the battery cabinet.
@@SolarSurge I had wondered if it was a closed system like Tesla. Some of these vendors are trying to be Apple. Do you still recommend It for going off grid?
@@SolarSurge Understand. I sent you an email about a week ago. In MA which I know is not a territory but was wondering if you do consulting to help with system design and vendor selection. If you didn’t get it I can email your info@ address again.
Very informative presentation!!! I like the idea of the off grid 2 wire start system only run to charge the batteries and I would assume they would also kick for high demands if need be. I just had a solar company come out yesterday and the estimate for their system including the Generac 6 battery bank was a mere 90k alone!!! Based on peaks of 3,000kw during peak months and 1,300kw on the low end. I live in NE TN and due to terrain features and exposures he put in for a bunch of panels...between 50 to 60 I believe to yield a 67%- 81% output. How much should I plan on to add an off grid generator like you mentioned?
@@SolarSurge Thanks...do you have any idea of how much a complete solar system w/ backup would improve property value? I'm looking at around 100k investment and 25 yr financing.
Do you have any recommendations on integrating a “ liquid cooled” diesel generator to a generac system? It seems that a high kw genset could quickly charge the batteries and power every demand for a short time with minimal fuel consumption. Also less overall maintenance. Any advice on this subject is much appreciated.
Yes I agree that a liquid-cooled diesel generator is another option. Sometimes you can find these for check on government/military surplus sites. However, you may have a hard time finding a company to maintain it for you.
Thank you Joe for all the information. Just curious, You said the natural gas lines froze. I’ve never heard of this happening I’ve heard of propane regulators freezing up but I have lived through -40 and even down to -64°C I’ve never heard anybody have a natural gas freeze it in their lines I’m just wondering what was the cause of that? Please let me know what could’ve caused this if possible.
Thanks for the question. I was just going off Texas Governor Abbott's statement that "It's frozen in the pipeline. It's frozen at the rig. It's frozen at the transmission line." I also had one client who lives near Dallas tell me that some people were still unable to use gas heat once the electric came back on.
Thank you again for the information that’s strange I’ve ever heard anybody ever have a natural gas freeze in Canada ever I don’t know if there’s maybe humidity lines down there but if a politician said it it must be true ‘right” sorry just a little joke. Thank you again for all the information you do and provide it is very informative. Thank you thank you thank you Just on a sidenote what’s your thoughts on Solar Edge inverters vs Fronius inverter. I’ve had a wholesalers that I deal with that sell one the above mentioned in but I’m thinking I would rather go with a couple of Sol-Ark 12K. I guess my other question to you is now that you build your house if you were going to build a new system from scratch for yourself what would your new dream system be? Given the updated panels and inverters, equipment etc. If it wouldn’t be too much trouble could you do a TH-cam video on that. I think with your knowledge and background it would be a great insight for newcomers starting to learn about solar.
@@leedwernychuk4442 Hi Lee. As always, thanks for the great feedback. I prefer Fronius over SolarEdge because of reliability. If I had to do it all over again, I would probably use Sol-Ark inverter, premium AGM batteries, and a Kohler 12 RES fixed generator backup.
Hi Joe, I was wondering if you could use a generator in addition to a battery backup specifically for surge power usage like starting an HVAC system or does the generator only charge the batteries and not supply additional wattage to the house?
Hi EdiKando15, and thanks for writing in. Yes, most hybrid inverters offer a "generator support" mode that allows the batteries and generator to run simultaneously to provide greater surge power for the house. The generator would have to already be running before the surge draw occurs.
I have a 20 4K W Generac home standby generator plus is 28 years old are use Damian Floria through six hurricanes right now is only use to charge a 75KW battery back up system when I used to use this generator for hurricane that generator will burn 100 pound propane tank in 24 hours now I only use it to charge my battery system you only run two hours three at the most is the best thing ever bought
No. You can buy a dual-fuel generator and run on propane right from the start. You can also do a conversion after the fact. Here's a good video on that subject: th-cam.com/video/orS2O-VFYL8/w-d-xo.html
I cant wait till the off grid version of this is implemented in the US grid solar/wind with battery storage and emergency peaker plants seems like the most logical answer. Till then I cant wait till I get my first home after this bubble in the market bursts. First thing I am getting is solar with battery storage as we move into EV automobile revolution. Are current grid cant handle the load of Everyone going to evs at once.
The solar hybrid inverters (Sol-Ark, Outback Radian, Schneider Conext XW) all have an internal transfer switch. You can program the priority power sources like: 1. solar, 2, grid, 3. battery 4. generator.
Do you know of a natural gas powered generator that is rated at 10kw. Many portable generators are severely derated when running on natural gas. I have seen 5500 watt units but they cannot run a water well pump and a freezer and still start a 3 ton AC unit. I am trying to stay under $2000 for the unit.
I'm looking for a generator to maintain a 48v solar system. I got 4.3kw solar array and 8 410amp fullriver battery bank. I get about 2 to 4 weeks of foggy days in the winter. I can't see paying the money for a whole house generator. Is there a propane generator that can be used as a battery charger only run through my inverter? And do I need to isolate the solar array when charging off the generator?
There are several portable generators that will work on dual fuel (gas or propane) and allow you to recharge the battery bank. Your inverter should have a dedicated AC input for the generator, so there is no need to isolate from the PV. Here is one option: www.ebay.com/itm/DuroMax-XP10000EH-10-000-Watt-Electric-Start-Dual-Fuel-Hybrid-Portable-Generator/202518309513?epid=27029735879&hash=item2f27082a89:g:pWYAAOSwDIZfRYmd
My max. load is 800W, I have a 2.5kWh lithium battery (12V) and a 1.5kVA pure sine inverter. Can I use a 2.5kVA (230V) gasoline generator to charge my battery?
Does anyone make an offgrid generator that has a regulated nominal 48V DC output? That way you could have the generator charge up the battery bank without affecting the operation of your system via your inverter(s). In a prior life I managed a phone company Central Office, and the power systems were mind-boggling. 480V AC 3 phase commercial power that only ran a bank of battery chargers. Any AC power in the building, from a wall outlet to commercial HVAC systems were run off a bank of redundant inverters. The typical load on the batteries was 1300 amps output, so you were really careful around the bus bars. If the 480V input died you wouldn't even notice except for the alarm going off and the 480V generator firing up. Gives you a whole different perspective on power dependence.
Great question. I am not aware of any that provide a 48V DC output. There are several generators with a 12VDC output, but the current limit is too low to do anything significant in terms of solar battery bank charging.
One correction: It is highly unlikely that a generator running at 50% output is anywhere near its most efficient operating point. Most ICEs are most efficient when running at full throttle at an RPM at or slightly below their peak torque RPM. A well designed generator will have its engine running at this operating point when at its maximum rated output. Therefore, it is very likely that you want to run the generator at or near its maximum output for best efficiency. You can’t compare a stationary engine operating a fairly linearly increase load (such as a generator) to a car where the load (primarily aerodynamic drag) is highly nonlinear. Cars would be more efficient if they were designed with small engines such that the engine is running full throttle at its max torque RPM when the car is at normal cruising speed, however, cars need to be able to do many other things such as accelerate quickly and occasionally run much slower or faster than normal cruise speed, so car engines are optimized to cover a broad operating regime. These constraints don’t apply to most stationary engines running loads such as generators or pumps.
What I believe is the best, would be a Propane (Prime Use) Generator. Plenty of fuel Storage, and 10 -20 Thousand hours of Running time with No Problem, with Proper Maintenance.. then you just rebuild it.
Love your videos man! Got a question for you on adding a generator at the same time as installing solar: if you do the 22kw Generac standby generator with whole-house transfer switch can can simply use the standard SolarEdge inverter or do you have to do the Energy Hub and BackUp Interface? My understanding is that you do need the Energy Hub and BackUp Interface when adding a portable generator with small transfer switch to an existing solar system.
Hi David and thanks for writing in. Yes, you could use a SolarEdge EnergyHub for this. However, I would suggest using Generac PWRCell with Generac Guardian generator backup. That would keep everything with a single installer and single warranty. Generac's solution provides better load contract than SolarEdge.
The price to install solar, battery backup, and a generator with propane storage is super expensive. I don't see anyone who isn't loaded doing this for their home.
I can see your point. But I can tell you I do have many clients with moderate incomes (military, law enforcement, nurses, even retired school teachers) who choose to invest in these systems because of the security and peace of mind.
True, my sister did this. Her cost $39k. WITHOUT ANY SOLAR. (propane tank underground) She lives in Texas & only lost power once since her install. So no, too expensive. We need more affordable options
Hi all the generators you have mentioned dump large quantities of energy ( heat) & are all inefficient if you used the heat eg marinised you can reuse it to heat your house. But other than me on one else seems to realise this. & As far as I know no small generators are water cooled to take advantage of this & what about diesel this has none of the disadvantages of all the other fuels.
Hi I going.instal 18k Generac.power cell i cant install any generator i looking for inverter 9000 GENMAX Generador inversor portátil, motor de gas propano súper silencioso de 9000 W con capacidad paralela, arranque remoto/eléctrico Thank You GOB
Great video, I am a service and installer technician for one of the brand generator you have in your video. For residential unit many customers buy their units and forget to have them serviced. Maintenance cost are high.
Hi Mark. Thanks for writing in. Would you be interested in coming on the show as an expert guest to discuss proper generator maintenance and other considerations if using a generator to charge batteries? If so, please email us at info@solarsurge.net
I have an 8KW Generac standby generator that operates on natural gas. It is about 10 years old, plus or minus. I have a contract with the only authorized Generac service company in the SF Bay Area (in my part of the Bay Area anyway). I have a maintenance contact and it is serviced once a year. What you didn’t mention is that this generator (and I assume other generators in its class) is basically a motorcycle engine in a box. It requires similar maintenance that is required for a motorcycle. I have had battery issues and electronics issues with it. I purchased the extended warranty (thank goodness) and have had many parts replaced.
The need for replacement parts has typically been discovered when the generator fails to either switch over after a power outage or it won’t start up. In my ten-ish years of ownership, it has worked about 50% of the time. One other source of failure that you didn’t mention is the transfer switch. It is a mechanical part that has failed to switch when commanded by the electronics because it was burnt out.
The last issue that standby generator owners need to be aware of is what the customer mix is of the company that services their generator. Generac’s largest market is commercial generators, not residential generators. At least twice I was unable to get the attention of my maintenance company (a really large, nationwide company) because their maintenance contracts are with businesses and those customers get the first attention of the maintenance company when there is an outage and generators aren’t working.
I am watching these videos because my next step is to get solar power with battery backup as soon as practical. I’ll keep the generator as a way to charge the battery in the event of a long power blackout. But I absolutely do not want to deal with Generac or its maintenance vendor in my area if I can help it.
Hi and thanks for writing in to share your experience.
You guys missed out on the diesel generators.
The discussion did touch on different fuel degradation.
But no mention on longer lasting diesel products
Thanks, Joe. That really cleared a few things up for me. You are a great educator and speaker. A true blessing.
I appreciate that! Thanks for the words of encouragement. Please subscribe to the channel and share far and wide.
I’ve found that your videos are extremely informative and helpful. Thanks!
Great information! You just jumped to my top 10 favorite channels!!
I use Non Ethanol Gas in mine portable generator and have left fuel in it a year in Florida where the humidity is always high. No problem. Now if I have a hurricane coming I'll burn regular car gas through the power outage. Then drain the tank put in a gallon of non ethanol gas and run it an hour. I put it away storing it with non ethanol gas. Carb cleaning is a thing of the past.
I didn’t hear any mention of the noise. Combustion generators are LOUD. After even a 24 hour outage, most customers are more than ready to have them off (in a not-a-supplement-to-battery/solar scenario).
And for an extended grid outage, you’re drawing attention to the fact you still have power.
Another good one. I wanted to add a comment about gasoline storage. Here in Calif. our reformulated gasoline is CRAP and it goes bad fast, not really feasible to store. My work around is 2 fold. Primary, we do do have So Cal Gas service which is very reliable so I did a Nat Gas conversion on a Champion 5K hybrid inverter style gen. The output does derate a bit on Nat Gas. Secondarily, I keep both our cars full of gasoline so in a really bad situation we do have access to about 35 gallons of relatively fresh fuel. I'm not suggesting that siphoning gasoline out of a car is for everyone but it does solve the storage problem for those willing. DO NOT EVER TRANSFER GASOLINE FROM YOUR CAR OR ANY OTHER CONTAINER IN A CLOSED SPACE. Also worth mentioning is that most decent back up inverters have Generator support that operates similar to the Peak Load Shave feature which limits the current draw from the Gen based on a user settable amperage value. Short term Excess power like a toaster or coffee maker being used is supplied by batteries. Thus a smaller, less expensive generator is still very functional even though it may only be 3 to 5Kw.
Very good points here. I recommend generators at least 5kW for adequate battery re-charging. Can you get non-ethanol gas in CA?
@@SolarSurge Yes, we do have a few places that sell high quality 101 Octane racing fuel. If stabilizer were added I suspect it would be fine for the 1 to 2 years shelf life usually claimed by the various products.
Propane is cleaner but less efficient and requires more for same run time. Power output of generator is lowered when using propane.
I really like your videos. They are very helpful. Can you do another video on Generac battery and Generac microinverters?
Yes, soon
This was a great and informative video. Thank you for the content.
Glad it was helpful!
We ran out of propane 5 days into Hurricane Sandy.
Our local propane company who we've been "friends" with since highschool told us they would not come to refill us... They needed to serve their bigger customers. They said "We are not coming. Find another way".
Non-ethanol fuel is a must for small engines. It’s not available in all areas but most newer stations vary it. It stores sealed for about a year vs 2-3 months for E10. Propane will never go bad, literally the container will go bad before the fuel. Also remember that there is about a 15% de-rate if you convert a gasoline Gen to propane.
Can you talk about islanding with a grid tie system? I’ve heard that, especially inverters generators, can cause issues because there is no frequency advance during an over production when a grid tie would normally backfeed the grid.
Hi Matthew and thanks for the feedback. Yes it's true about the non-ethanol fuel being the best for small engines and long term storage. That's all I use now.
For safety reasons, it's best to completely isolate your grid-tie solar system from a portable generator. The generator has no ability to regulate the solar power output and there is a chance the solar panels could backfeed the generator causing permanent damage to the generator.
Joe, another outstanding presentation and informative content!
Good video, pointing out the practical differences between alternate generator approaches. One thing not mentioned was maintenance. There are a couple of Generacs in our neighborhood, and I know those run occasionally as part of their regular maintenance. (Seems to me that over time, this would make a dent into your 500 allocated warranty hours.) There are other maintenance items as well, although the fuel differences, as pointed out in the video, are key. Last, some comment about noise levels seem appropriate. You may not care about noise during an outage event, but neighbors might- particularly when the generators run as part of their scheduled maintenance runs.
Hi Ken. Thanks for writing in. Yes, many of my neighbors use the Generac automatic standby generators also. They seem to run at least once a month for about 10 minutes just for routine maintenance. The Generac are definitely more quiet than portable gas generators.
Have the auto standby generator, mine runs one a week for 10 minutes. It tells me when it wants the oil changed, Have had it installed for 5 years and still don;t have 200 hrs on it yet. But the piece of mind that I won't have to pack up in the middle of a snow storm and get to a shelter is great.
You produce great videos. Really pertinent information.
Great job. Thanks
By pre-planning do you mean planning?
Hi Joe, Which Solar system operates the scenario you described of the 2 wire connection control of the generator to only come online at preset battery percentage? SolarEdge, Enphase, etc?
Enphase supports the generator 2-wire start.
@@SolarSurge What have you heard about the SolarEdge Energy Hub that has Generator integration.
A great video would be one that compares the top 3 options for a hybrid Solar, Battery and Generator system. Pros and Cons
Seriously thinking about generac 18-22kw range as battery storage is more expensive at the moment. Waiting for cheaper battery tech. However just watched a UK video and a battery panel can have a payback period of anywhere from 5-10 years depending upon costs. The key is if one has a night time electricity program then the equation for 5-10 years works (differential between rates). We dont have one yet (incentive program) so its more like +18 years payback (battery alone no solar). Wouldn't consider gas at all, just propane or NG. Since we have propane boiler in the house (in floor heat and ranges) I can run a line from existing tanks to a generator. However just installed two heat pumps to reduce dependency on propane for winter heating.
Great info!!
From experience I have seen that portable generators also seem more likely to fail if run at very low load over time. Running as close to 50% of max load as feasible seems to be most reliable in addition to being more efficient.
We have a Generac Guardian 26kw. I’m trying to figure how to add solar for primary power source for long term power outage
Also motor oil is a consumable for multi day run.
Good point. The portable gas generators consume motor oil at a rate much faster than automobiles and lawnmowers.
@@SolarSurge interesting observation. It shouldn’t be that way with quality 4 stroke engines. My Honda small air cooled engines have no such problem. Maybe good break in, maybe materials used for cylinder and rings, maybe fuel air ratio, maybe frequent oil change, maybe synthetic oil??? Plan for oil changes.
The house I purchased has a Generac 16kw propane Guardian generator and 150a transfer switch. I have installed an off grid solar system and would like to keep the generator for charging the four 12kw 51.2v 228ah batteries and power the house when the batteries drop off. The system has been installed for 2 years now and the batteries have only dropped off 3 times due to bad weather. I was able to manually bypass the transfer switch each time but that is a hassel in bad weather! LOL!
My question (and I asked the Inverter company and a Generac installer with no luck) is there a 2 wire change kit or some other way to make my generator work in conjunction with my inverters thru the dry contacts? That way my inverters would be the switch. The problem is the Generator will turn on but when the power goes back on the transfer switch just shuts down since power is restored. This happened once and I figured it out and bypassed the transfer switch untill the batteries were charged and went back to battery mode.
I just want it to be automatic adon't realy want to fork out the bucks for a new off grid generator.
Thanks in advance for any help you can lend.
If you are using gasoline to fuel a generator (or any small gas engine) only use non ETOH fuel. Your machine will run easier and longer with less maintenance.
What are your thoughts on the EcoFlow line?
Hi Joe, Great content! I had a 20Kw Briggs and Stratton stand by generator with an ATS installed a year or so ago, and it works great, but I'd also like to have a battery backup for the house to survive for at least a little while - something like a rack of the Gyll LiFePO4 batteries that DavidPoz did a couple of videos on. Just not sure what I would need to do the retrofit to make it use the batteries first, and then the generator, and then have the generator charge the batteries back up etc, like you mentioned in the video. I like the content, so you earned a subscribe - keep up the great work!
Thank you sir. In this case, you could use a battery hybrid inverter like the Outback Radian or Sol-Ark paired with those Gyll batteries. The hybrid inverter will act as an automatic transfer switch and it can control the generator via 2-wire remote start.
@@SolarSurge Right after I posted that, maybe two videos later I watched your video comparing the Sol-Ark 12 ad the Outback Radian, so I should have just waited. I also learned that you live in Central VA. I too am in VA, just Northern VA close to Winchester. We might need to chat - just not sure how far your service / project area is?
@@ericjansen9042 Hi Eric, I've got you covered in all of Virginia. Please visit the website and let's book a virtual meeting to discuss your project.
Good information.
Glad it was helpful!
Enjoy all your videos. Currently installing EnPhase Solar. Considering adding a small battery backup (EnPhase or Tesla) for refrigerator, freezer, WiFi and lights/TV. We don’t have many power outages in AZ. That could change. One option I’m considering is using the 7.2kw power generator capability of the 2021 Ford F-150 PowerBoost as a emergency backup power solution. This would allow me to recharge the battery backup (if solar can’t due to weather or we use more power after sunset than the battery can supply) and provide emergency power at night after sunset. Have you given any thought to producing a video using the F-150 in this type of situation? It solves fuel storage issues and eliminates the need for someone like myself who doesn’t have use for a portable generator other than for backup emergency purposes. At $750 this option on the F-150 PowerBoost seems like a less expensive solution. Plus I can power a small portable fridge/freezer unit or an electric griddle when camping/fishing/hunting or even a travel trailer in off grid situation.
Hi and thanks for writing in. Yes, I do believe the Ford F150 PowerBoost would be superior to the portable gas generator for the reasons you mentioned. As of right now, only Enphase is promising the ability to recharge solar batteries using a generator.
What about a Diesel standby generator ? Its more efficient than the gasoline type ? Doea diesel also have that moisture absorption problem ?
Hi and thanks for writing in. Great questions. Diesel generators are more fuel efficient than gasoline and, because diesel burns cooler, the engines typically have a much longer service life. However, diesel engines are very difficult to start in extreme cold temps. I have heard reports about people in Texas who were not able to start their diesel tractors to run PTO generators during the deep freeze.
For long term grid down diesel is definitely the way to go. It's much easier to source and transport. Diesel also stores well with additives. Diesel motors are designed to last thousands of hours and start just fine in the cold if you know what you're doing. I live in Canada, the Texas deep freeze was a balmy day for me
Diesel keeps for 25+years and will always be cheaper than propane, running propane on a dual fuel will give you less running watts. Getting a diesel generator with a storage tank is going to be your best option and you can let it stay in the carbs without gumming it up like gas will. Food for thought!
No carbs on a diesel, injection pump and injectors...just FYI :)
I’ve had to treat diesel when it’s been in bulk. Algae and condensation are things you need to watch for. Propane doesn’t suffer from storage issues other than rust. Personally I keep both given my 4wd is diesel.
For my generator, I use both propane & ethanol free gasoline stored in metal safety cans outside in a shed…I also have a Bluetti AC200P with 600w solar panels…If I bug out, I can take all my equipment with me…
Great info Joe, thanks!
Glad it was helpful!
Hi what I want is to add wind power as my generator as the wind runs here 75% of the year and can gerenater 500 to 1000watts with a small turbine. It would plug in to the socket provided for a portable gas generator I assume. Running all day is would keep the battery topped up then overflow to the grid along with excess solar. Is that feasible?
Great review
The new champion 14KW standby generators are really nice and affordable. 5 grand
Thanks Joe for the video! I have a question; Could you please list some model/brand of 2 wire auto start portable generators?
Can u please mention which of them has low maintenance and which is more expensive? So that i may know which is better. Thanks and regards...
Great video Joe, can i ask... when using a generator with solar/battery am i right in thinking you feed the gen power to the main panel and then just let the solar sync to that instead of the grid.. ?
Not exactly. Most hybrid solar inverters or system controllers will have a dedicated generator input. The solar inverter's transfer switch will replace a traditional generation ATS.
Aircraft AVGAS works great and is available at all general aviation airports
Hi, I’m new to your channel and enjoying what videos I’ve watched so far. I am considering solar, but would want the panels mounted off the ground, no holes in the roof. Have you talked about wind power any? Thanks.
Hi and thanks for writing in. Be sure to check this video comparing roof vs ground-mounted systems: th-cam.com/video/O_XL2yIXCYI/w-d-xo.html
Thanks for the videos @Joe. Can you maybe make a video for various types of monitoring systems available in the market (Tesla, SEMs, Enlighten, solarEdge and others)? Also maybe a comparison video for monitoring systems that can be added to legacy solar systems? Thanks!
Very good idea. Thank you. I will plan on doing a comparison video on monitoring.
One other generator. PTO tractor. I have a 200 gallon diesel tank for farm equipment and a pto driven 14kw generator for my tractor.
Truly a portable generator. Does yours mount on the 3-point hitch?
@@philtimmons722 yes. it attaches just like a rotary cutter or any other pto driven equipment
Good point. Did you have any trouble getting your diesel to start in the extreme cold temps?
@@SolarSurge I live in middle georgia. No extremes here.
I’m guessing a winco generator
Hi Joe, I’ve been told by a few electricians that you cannot or should not use a generator to attempt to charge the batteries on my grid tied solar system. Please can you tell me how you’re getting around the lack of pure sign wave and the fluctuations in power from the generator.
Thanks
Michael 👍🏾
I'm not an electrician but I do make use of a hybrid inverter that is currently grid tied and I would like to add a gen asap. That said, gen will replace the grid connection to simplify the intended use for the inverter to distribute power to the batteries and house when needed but further than that, if you consider that the gen can be told by the inverter to charge the batteries at a predetermined timeframe, when the house is using minimal power. Your question ties into this, relating to size of the generator. Generators have standby power and continuous. Distance and correct sizing of the generator will effect power fluctuations in the form of frequency. Some robust inverters can be told to except a wider range. Pure sign wave, im not sure Ive heard this argument made before but to my understanding, dirty power in, dirty power out. You have to spend big money on the generator and be a maintenance freak to insure the power going out is clean.
I have a system that is 12.75 Kw and a Battery from Enphase the is 10KW, I need a portable Gen just to charge the battery if need. Will any Gen work? what do you recommend? I think Enphase will void the warranty if we use a portable Gen.
My generator has a 12v dc component.
Can I connect this directly to the 8 12v batteries to increase battery input?
What on grid solar battery systems are able to be charged via solar and generator? It’s becoming very frustrating to find a battery system that can do this
Dumb question here. Can a inverter generator be use? Or it has to be the loud one?
Yes, you can use an inverter generator. However, be sure to match the voltage. Most solar inverters require 240 V input for battery charging some inverter generators only output 120 V.
Joe, you should mention open frame generators are terrible for most house components and are truly designed to run power construction equipment. Todays home refrigerators and freezers, cell phones, computers and any sensitive electronic equipment can and will burn out easily with open frame (non pure-sign-wave inverter power). I would only use a pure sign wave inverter generator to run my home, but of course many generator companies do not sell large watt inverter generators. Champion Power Equipment has recognized this void and no offers many open frame inverter option up to 8K now. They are twice the cost but half the noise, but worth it. Funny, ask how many RV'ers have destroyed their RV's using open frame non inverter generators. A lot!
Hi Steve, and thanks for writing in. That's a good point. I have personally blown out my internet router twice while running off the Honda open frame generator when it misfires. The portable generators are not good for running sensitive electronics. When I run mine, it's strictly for battery charging.
I blew up the fridge electronics twice with a honda em5500cxs generator. The seller of the refrigerator does not want to give me another guarantee for the future if I still use this machine to directly charge my batteries. Then I found the solution, I bought a studer 8000 extender inverter and connected it directly to the generator and only to the batteries et voila, no more problems with the electronics while I charge the batteries. The only thing I'm going to change is the generator because officially it gives 5500 watts but measuring the batteries there is only 3550 watts left, so I'm looking for a stronger one and this one is not easy to find.
Hey Joe! Have you seen a successful Enphase Sunlight Backup + Generator combo without a battery? What sort of advantages or limitations exist here when backfeeding two sources of power in a grid down scenario?
Hi Theil. Great question. The sunlight back up generator combination is only meant to provide short-term smooth transition from Grid to generator power. For example, you could have your computers and networking equipment on the sunlight back up so they would never lose power even for a few seconds while waiting for the generator to fire up.
great video! really helped me decide how to optimize my backup generator setup. currently I use a honda gasoline powered inverter generator 65is(5500W) as my main backup generator with two honda handi eu3000i generators wired in parallels as my secondary backup system. Have a 30amp reliance manual transfer switch attached to the home electric panel....might convert my gas generators to propane like you suggest...thx!
Great info., love your thorough presentation style!! I really want the Solar/Standby Generator hybrid system! I live in the Ocala National Forest and service is sometimes hard to come by, especially in Hurricane scenarios.
So if you were doing this all from scratch in 2022, and price were no object, what would be your recommendation on the "best" system? By that I mean brand names, etc. Remember this is just your opinion, so feel free to name names!! To clarify, I want Solar running the house and a standby gen. to charge the battery for the Solar System! And my house, based on calculations for a standby system, would require a 22 kw standby only, if I were to go that route. I am thinking the hybrid system would require less kw to charge the battery.
Is there anyway to get a call if I live in Wisconsin.
I have an off grid system with the following generator and batteries; 12-Batteries 600amps AGM12V200A and Generator 3200 Watt 120V Carb compliant. In your scenario of turning on as 40% and off at 85% how long would the generator run? This is an Aims system with the Aims Inverter PICOGL12KW. Just trying to get an idea.
We had a Generac Guardian standby generator with ATS installed before switching to solar. We opted for the Generac power cell system but Generac still has not integrated their inversor to turn on our generator if needed. Any idea when this upgrade will be available? We live in hurricane alley PR and need to have plans A (grid), B (solar) , C (batteries) & D (stby generator) in place just in case, before our Maria PTSD kicks in. Thanks for the great content.
Thanks for the feedback. Generac tells me that the inverter-generator integration should be available Q3 2021. I will follow up with more details as they emerge.
Generac Ecogen also comes with 2000 hours warranty
Excellent information, I'm in the California Desert and my air conditioner runs continuously during the summer ( day & night) I live in the city but I want to get rid the electricity company.
I already have a solar system and I'm connected to the grid but I do not have a battery back up system. Is there such a generator that would run after sundown for 4 to 6 months out of the year so I can run this house as if it was off the grid? Can I actually do what I'm thinking of doing? I'd appreciate your response.
Tkx
Hi. Yes, what you are proposing is possible, but the fuel cost would be extreme. You might want to consider a combination of generator and a battery-inverter system. The house would run off batteries all the time. The generator would be used to re-charge the batteries if the solar panels couldn't keep up.
@@SolarSurge tkx
Love the videos!!
Thanks for the sub. Please let me know if you have any video ideas, questions.
It would be nice if a generator and inverter company would team up and develop an inverter that would allow both the solar array and the generator to run simultaneously and not require a battery in order to use the solar panels when the grid is down. It is nuts to require an expensive battery simply to be able to use the solar panels when the grid is down.
18kw solar system and 3 pws. If there’s no power for a week and cloudy all week, before batteries fully drain bc of lack of solar could a generator plugged into the homes dryer 240 outlet to charge them??
No I'm afraid now. Tesla PW does not allow recharge from a generator. The power is too "dirty" and that would void Tesla's warranty.
@@SolarSurge thanks for the reply.
Love your videos. Can you integrate a Sol Ark with a Generac Solar with battery wall and Backup Generator?
Sol-Ark is a modular inverter that can be paired with just about any 48V battery and any generator. The Generac PWRCell system must use Generac components end-to-end from the solar array, to the inverter, to the battery cabinet.
@@SolarSurge I had wondered if it was a closed system like Tesla. Some of these vendors are trying to be Apple. Do you still recommend It for going off grid?
@@stevef For true off-grid, I would go with Sol-Ark or Outback Radian. Generac is designed for grid-tie with battery backup.
@@SolarSurge Understand. I sent you an email about a week ago. In MA which I know is not a territory but was wondering if you do consulting to help with system design and vendor selection. If you didn’t get it I can email your info@ address again.
Very informative presentation!!! I like the idea of the off grid 2 wire start system only run to charge the batteries and I would assume they would also kick for high demands if need be. I just had a solar company come out yesterday and the estimate for their system including the Generac 6 battery bank was a mere 90k alone!!! Based on peaks of 3,000kw during peak months and 1,300kw on the low end. I live in NE TN and due to terrain features and exposures he put in for a bunch of panels...between 50 to 60 I believe to yield a 67%- 81% output. How much should I plan on to add an off grid generator like you mentioned?
You can add a portable generator for as little as $500. However, for a whole-house standby generator, you are looking at closer to $15k.
@@SolarSurge Thanks...do you have any idea of how much a complete solar system w/ backup would improve property value? I'm looking at around 100k investment and 25 yr financing.
@@Bush63Master It depends. You really need to find the right buyer who will value these upgrades.
Do you have any recommendations on integrating a “ liquid cooled” diesel generator to a generac system? It seems that a high kw genset could quickly charge the batteries and power every demand for a short time with minimal fuel consumption. Also less overall maintenance. Any advice on this subject is much appreciated.
Yes I agree that a liquid-cooled diesel generator is another option. Sometimes you can find these for check on government/military surplus sites. However, you may have a hard time finding a company to maintain it for you.
cant you put 2 wire start on generac other generators. not the eco gen
Yes you can. Just ask your local Generac dealer about how to make the conversion.
Thank you Joe for all the information.
Just curious,
You said the natural gas lines froze.
I’ve never heard of this happening I’ve heard of propane regulators freezing up but I have lived through -40 and even down to -64°C I’ve never heard anybody have a natural gas freeze it in their lines I’m just wondering what was the cause of that?
Please let me know what could’ve caused this if possible.
Thanks for the question. I was just going off Texas Governor Abbott's statement that "It's frozen in the pipeline. It's frozen at the rig. It's frozen at the transmission line." I also had one client who lives near Dallas tell me that some people were still unable to use gas heat once the electric came back on.
Thank you again for the information that’s strange I’ve ever heard anybody ever have a natural gas freeze in Canada ever I don’t know if there’s maybe humidity lines down there but if a politician said it it must be true ‘right” sorry just a little joke.
Thank you again for all the information you do and provide it is very informative.
Thank you thank you thank you
Just on a sidenote what’s your thoughts on Solar Edge inverters vs Fronius inverter.
I’ve had a wholesalers that I deal with that sell one the above mentioned in but I’m thinking I would rather go with a couple of Sol-Ark 12K.
I guess my other question to you is now that you build your house if you were going to build a new system from scratch for yourself what would your new dream system be?
Given the updated panels and inverters, equipment etc.
If it wouldn’t be too much trouble could you do a TH-cam video on that.
I think with your knowledge and background it would be a great insight for newcomers starting to learn about solar.
@@leedwernychuk4442 Hi Lee. As always, thanks for the great feedback. I prefer Fronius over SolarEdge because of reliability. If I had to do it all over again, I would probably use Sol-Ark inverter, premium AGM batteries, and a Kohler 12 RES fixed generator backup.
Hi Joe, I was wondering if you could use a generator in addition to a battery backup specifically for surge power usage like starting an HVAC system or does the generator only charge the batteries and not supply additional wattage to the house?
Hi EdiKando15, and thanks for writing in. Yes, most hybrid inverters offer a "generator support" mode that allows the batteries and generator to run simultaneously to provide greater surge power for the house. The generator would have to already be running before the surge draw occurs.
How about one about 20-30 minutes long on battery options for Off-Grid Solar ?
I am anxiously waiting !
Thank you. I had another subscriber ask for the same thing so I will plan on doing this video soon!
I have a 20 4K W Generac home standby generator plus is 28 years old are use Damian Floria through six hurricanes right now is only use to charge a 75KW battery back up system when I used to use this generator for hurricane that generator will burn 100 pound propane tank in 24 hours now I only use it to charge my battery system you only run two hours three at the most is the best thing ever bought
Hi Joe, does a gas engine need to start on gasoline first then switch to propane when you add a kit to them?
No. You can buy a dual-fuel generator and run on propane right from the start. You can also do a conversion after the fact. Here's a good video on that subject: th-cam.com/video/orS2O-VFYL8/w-d-xo.html
@@SolarSurge I'm in Australia Joe, no dual fuel genny's available here hence the question.
I cant wait till the off grid version of this is implemented in the US grid solar/wind with battery storage and emergency peaker plants seems like the most logical answer. Till then I cant wait till I get my first home after this bubble in the market bursts. First thing I am getting is solar with battery storage as we move into EV automobile revolution. Are current grid cant handle the load of Everyone going to evs at once.
Sounds good! We are here to help when you are ready to go solar + storage.
I'd be interested in knowing exactly how the switching for solar/battery/generator would work
The solar hybrid inverters (Sol-Ark, Outback Radian, Schneider Conext XW) all have an internal transfer switch. You can program the priority power sources like: 1. solar, 2, grid, 3. battery 4. generator.
Do you know of a natural gas powered generator that is rated at 10kw. Many portable generators are severely derated when running on natural gas. I have seen 5500 watt units but they cannot run a water well pump and a freezer and still start a 3 ton AC unit. I am trying to stay under $2000 for the unit.
For best performance, you really want a fixed nat gas generator like Generac or Kohler.
I'm looking for a generator to maintain a 48v solar system. I got 4.3kw solar array and 8 410amp fullriver battery bank. I get about 2 to 4 weeks of foggy days in the winter. I can't see paying the money for a whole house generator. Is there a propane generator that can be used as a battery charger only run through my inverter? And do I need to isolate the solar array when charging off the generator?
There are several portable generators that will work on dual fuel (gas or propane) and allow you to recharge the battery bank. Your inverter should have a dedicated AC input for the generator, so there is no need to isolate from the PV. Here is one option: www.ebay.com/itm/DuroMax-XP10000EH-10-000-Watt-Electric-Start-Dual-Fuel-Hybrid-Portable-Generator/202518309513?epid=27029735879&hash=item2f27082a89:g:pWYAAOSwDIZfRYmd
My max. load is 800W, I have a 2.5kWh lithium battery (12V) and a 1.5kVA pure sine inverter. Can I use a 2.5kVA (230V) gasoline generator to charge my battery?
It depends on your inverter. The generator out for voltage must match the inverter input voltage.
Does anyone make an offgrid generator that has a regulated nominal 48V DC output? That way you could have the generator charge up the battery bank without affecting the operation of your system via your inverter(s). In a prior life I managed a phone company Central Office, and the power systems were mind-boggling. 480V AC 3 phase commercial power that only ran a bank of battery chargers. Any AC power in the building, from a wall outlet to commercial HVAC systems were run off a bank of redundant inverters. The typical load on the batteries was 1300 amps output, so you were really careful around the bus bars. If the 480V input died you wouldn't even notice except for the alarm going off and the 480V generator firing up. Gives you a whole different perspective on power dependence.
Great question. I am not aware of any that provide a 48V DC output. There are several generators with a 12VDC output, but the current limit is too low to do anything significant in terms of solar battery bank charging.
Can't do that with my 9000w generator, as it has a governor.
One correction: It is highly unlikely that a generator running at 50% output is anywhere near its most efficient operating point. Most ICEs are most efficient when running at full throttle at an RPM at or slightly below their peak torque RPM. A well designed generator will have its engine running at this operating point when at its maximum rated output. Therefore, it is very likely that you want to run the generator at or near its maximum output for best efficiency. You can’t compare a stationary engine operating a fairly linearly increase load (such as a generator) to a car where the load (primarily aerodynamic drag) is highly nonlinear. Cars would be more efficient if they were designed with small engines such that the engine is running full throttle at its max torque RPM when the car is at normal cruising speed, however, cars need to be able to do many other things such as accelerate quickly and occasionally run much slower or faster than normal cruise speed, so car engines are optimized to cover a broad operating regime. These constraints don’t apply to most stationary engines running loads such as generators or pumps.
What I believe is the best, would be a Propane (Prime Use) Generator. Plenty of fuel Storage, and 10 -20 Thousand hours of Running time with No Problem, with Proper Maintenance.. then you just rebuild it.
What kind of watch is that?
Citizen Eco-Drive. Solar powered with battery!
Love your videos man! Got a question for you on adding a generator at the same time as installing solar: if you do the 22kw Generac standby generator with whole-house transfer switch can can simply use the standard SolarEdge inverter or do you have to do the Energy Hub and BackUp Interface? My understanding is that you do need the Energy Hub and BackUp Interface when adding a portable generator with small transfer switch to an existing solar system.
Hi David and thanks for writing in. Yes, you could use a SolarEdge EnergyHub for this. However, I would suggest using Generac PWRCell with Generac Guardian generator backup. That would keep everything with a single installer and single warranty. Generac's solution provides better load contract than SolarEdge.
The price to install solar, battery backup, and a generator with propane storage is super expensive. I don't see anyone who isn't loaded doing this for their home.
I can see your point. But I can tell you I do have many clients with moderate incomes (military, law enforcement, nurses, even retired school teachers) who choose to invest in these systems because of the security and peace of mind.
True, my sister did this. Her cost $39k. WITHOUT ANY SOLAR. (propane tank underground) She lives in Texas & only lost power once since her install.
So no, too expensive. We need more affordable options
Generac 22kw propane w backup 6500kw gas/propane back up
I think people will want to know who built the device. This is a government requirement in Florida.
Hi all the generators you have mentioned dump large quantities of energy ( heat) & are all inefficient if you used the heat eg marinised you can reuse it to heat your house. But other than me on one else seems to realise this. & As far as I know no small generators are water cooled to take advantage of this & what about diesel this has none of the disadvantages of all the other fuels.
Propane costs skyrocketing!
Hi I going.instal 18k Generac.power cell i cant install any generator i looking for inverter 9000 GENMAX Generador inversor portátil, motor de gas propano súper silencioso de 9000 W con capacidad paralela, arranque remoto/eléctrico Thank You GOB
Generation efficiency: th-cam.com/video/raZ1dQ6HIQw/w-d-xo.html