Generac PWRCell VS Enphase Battery
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 มิ.ย. 2024
- Solar Surge will teach you all about being energy independent and how to set up your home to run off-the-grid during an emergency. We empower families to take control of their energy generation and storage so that they will never be left in the dark without electricity.
In this video, Joe presents a head-to-head comparison of the Generac PWRCell and Enphase Ensemble battery backup systems. We also look at the difference between AC-coupled and DC-coupled architectures.
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Thank you Joe
This is exactly the video I needed. Thanks.
Joe, you have answered many of my questions. EXCELLENT definition of the products.
Joe is the GOAT, just watched a video on a different channel and it was not good!!! You are Clear, confident, and informative!! Keep it up!! Hoping to get solar within the next six months. Been able to talk confidently to all businesses because of what I learned here!!!
Thank you!
Excellent explanation of the technology and Pros and Cons of the two battery backup systems.
Another great informative video! Thanks
You're hired! Thanks for the video and educating consumers Joe.
Excellent explanation of system differences
Fantastic video. Thanks for this. Especially from a Prepper perspective.
Awesome info Joe!
Great information thanks for sharing your knowledge
Great explanation...thanks for the great video
Your content rock buddy thanks!
good info thanks
I'm new to all of this solar/battery stuff. I've been researching everything I can. This video is the best video I've watched in explaining the differences and different needs people have on the subjects covered. Excellent job.
Glad it was helpful!
his company sells Generac. so this is biased. what he doesntt tell you is theat Generac is actually the poorly made Parker battery which went out of business when Generac bought it. it s cheap battery. Generac just painted it name on it. It will not be handle these loads that it is promising and certainly not for 10 years or 4000 cycles. Comparing Generac to Enpahse is like compaing plastic and particle board DIY furniture from Wayfair, IKEA or Walmart and furniture that is hand crafted from solid wood. Buyer beware. Also, Enphase is in the business of solar batteries whereas Generac is in the business of propane fueled generators. a whole different world. Generac solar batteries are not what they say they are. They are the cheaply made inefficient Parker junk rebranded with a generator company.
@@imminenthope8970 I'm afraid you are mistaken. Generac purchased Pike Energy and the battery cells are made by Panasonic, one of the world leaders in lithium-ion battery production. Also, I sell both Enphase and Generac brands so I have no reason to favor one over the other.
@@SolarSurge is there a 10kw ok ish QC and reasonably priced non lmc ( as id rather go for more passive safety ect. ) battery backup for 15kw ish inverter peeking loads and or can work in un climate controlled conditions ? as id like the cook dinner at night time and run the 4-ton 240v sp heat pump and have the lights on in the kitchen and in one of the bathrooms 🚽 plus internet and tv/computer 💻all at the same time and maybe play well with vehicles to VG
Excellent video. Thank You. I whish you also went into how the Generac managed the solar panels like you did with Enphase and Tesla.
Really helpful!
Peace.. Shalom.. Salam.. Namaste and Thank You for All that you are doing for World Peace.. 🙏🏻 😊 🌈 ✌ 🌷 ☮️ ❤️
Generac can handle two full battery
cabinets for a 18kwh plus another
full battery cabinet 18kwh for a total of
36 kwh total with on inverter.
Now you can add another inverter and get 2 more full cabinets at another
36kwh for a total 72kwh which a whole lot.
Now batteries are not cheap.
No matter who’s label on them.
I am a Generac owner and have been learning quite a bit about Generac systems.
I have 7,800 watts of panel which I intend to add up to a 10,000 total.
Then another Inverter and another
6,000 to 7,000 watts of panels on second inverter.
No such thing as to many panels or to many batteries.
I run my whole house at night off batteries and can run most the night in Summer temps with A/C mini split type air conditioners.
We make 35kwh to 40 kwh a day with panels and running at night on batteries is awesome.
Great video as always.
Outstanding Insight!!!!
#givethegridarest
I’m just starting to do the deep dive into solar as we will break ground on our new home in the coming months- looking to have solar and battery backup capable of off grid and needs to run well and AC and electric water heater, induction range, etc. obviously not all at the same time, but those are the demands
Hi Joe. It's been a while since we last met in VA, but I see you've stayed right on top of PWRcell developments. Excellent presentation. One thing I would add for essential backup systems is that our three-module PWRcell battery with a secondary panel (not load management) is an excellent solution for the CA market. Keep up the great work!
Hi Rob. Good to hear from you. It's a great product offering you all have here. Can you tell us anything about how we can integrate a PWRCell with a traditional fuel-burning generator?
@@SolarSurge We will be releasing generator integration firmware in September for AC-coupling generators with PWRcell systems. The integration will provide several backup configurations that combine the two power sources during outages. We'll be sharing more information in late August, so stay tuned.
@@SolarSurge One suggestion, since I noticed several comments about load management. Dive into Generac load management capabilities, which you can start by checking out this on-demand video overview: www.generac.com/resources-and-tools/ce-installer-resources/learn-more-about-pwrcell. PWRcell load management is basically the same solution that we've been installing with generators for years, and reinforces the benefit of one brand, one tech support #, one warranty.
I have 25 Hanwha Q Cell panels (340 watt) 8.5KW system with Enphase inverters and controls for my 2048 sqft home. Texas has put a slowdown on Generac generator distribution reference the last horrible freeze they had. I ordered mine around the time it started. I am getting a Genaric Guardian 22KW natural gas system. I'm in So. Ca. Ever since the big fire in Paradise, Ca. that burned the whole town to the ground because of PG&E's infrastructure, So. Cal. Edison is on the bandwagon now by turning off the power during high winds or a fire that's 20 miles from me, or the occasional brown out during peak times. Since I'm producing more than I need and have a whole home back up generator, do I need or could I still benefit from battery back up? Recommendations?
Joe, Thank you for making this video and answering my question on the 2 battery systems. I enjoyed the details between the AC and DC coupled systems and how they differ on whole home backup. I now have a better understanding on which system I am leaning toward. Maybe Generac could start working with a solar panel company to compliment and complete its PWRCell system?
Glad it was helpful!
They used Silfab on my Generac system
Your videos are very informative and to the point. Great job! Also, in CT I find it’s big solar companies, not a knowledgeable contractor you can talk with. Can you suggest anyone here in CT?
Hi Rosario. I would recommend going to the Enphase website to search for an installer in your area.
Soooooooooooooooooooooooo helpful! I live in Texas; it is NOT LIVABLE here in the summer without AC (and apparently ERCOT can't find its own ass with both hands and a spotlight). I just got my AC replaced and I have existing rooftop PV cells, but when Halcium (or another comparable) releases their PowerPod, it's gonna definitely be time to seriously consider a battery backup!
@OPENYOUREYES ANDWAKEUP i work in a data center; this recommendation is useless. How's the view from that horse?
Great information - thank you. :)
Can you do a cost and complexity comparison for installing an external generator vs installing a Solar system and battery backup? Installed cost and annualized cost over the lifetime of the equipment would be great!
Thanks for the suggestion. I'll add this to the list for upcoming videos.
from what about 5 people have independently have told me for 10+KW it's cheaper to have solar power for home use but that might be wrong or in some cases/sinaro's not work out pencil wise
@@SolarSurge it would help if you add in a tractor or service truck pto style genset ROI as with a hardware store units and used/government surplus and small home sized wind generations for ROI as some places in the dark are windy and or that is the reason for the utilities to go out/start a grid failure so might as well take advantage of it well it lasts and wind is potential more accessible to the average usa 🇺🇸 homeowners/suburban than hydro-generation
Could you do a video about "smart electric panels" like the SPAN IO?
Sure, please see this video here: th-cam.com/video/PZX6t8k32Z4/w-d-xo.html
Thanks Joe for this informative video! We started working with Enphase, but now I see their system is not the best for us. As you explained, their system is better tailored for California and similar.
his company sells Generac. so this is biased. what he doesntt tell you is theat Generac is actually the poorly made Parker battery which went out of business when Generac bought it. it s cheap battery. Generac just painted it name on it. It will not be handle these loads that it is promising and certainly not for 10 years or 4000 cycles. Comparing Generac to Enpahse is like compaing plastic and particle board DIY furniture from Wayfair, IKEA or Walmart and furniture that is hand crafted from solid wood. Buyer beware. Also, Enphase is in the business of solar batteries whereas Generac is in the business of propane fueled generators. a whole different world. Generac solar batteries are not what they say they are. They are the cheaply made inefficient Parker junk rebranded with a generator company.what is the cost to you when the Generac breaks down? somethings just are built well. avoid Parker batteries rebranded as Generac
@@imminenthope8970 ty i nearly cancelled my order for 20 panels and 2 x enphase 1.2kw !
Someone may have mentioned it already, but I'm pretty sure you can stack 4 of the enphase units together. All of the enphase documentation (including their online configurator) that I've found states as much. Otherwise, awesome video as always!
Thanks for the info!
What sort of system / power requirements would you recommend for someone in Western NY where the sun is less prevalent?
Thanks Joe. I’ve learned quite a bit from your channel. I’m being recommended a solar system with homegrid battery. How would that system compare in your opinion? I’m in NY so never had an opportunity to connect with your team.
Hi Bob and thanks for writing in. I am not yet familiar with the Homegrid battery.
Very nice comparison with interesting details! $$Cost for these is too high. :-( When will the volume price point make sense (as other vendors join the fray). 2 years? 5 years?
Hi Joe,
Do you think you could piece together a system better than the out of box systems offered: Enphase, Generac, Tesla?
For these 2 option, it's best to stick with all one brand end-to-end. Of course, you can choose any brand solar panel to use with these systems.
This information is really good but you're seem to be only talking about 1 type system with micro inverts on the roof under each solar panel. What about the system like I have where I have one inverter is on the side of the house?
We have a deep well pump, too. Seems like Sol-Ark System might be another good option.
@@SolarSurge I'm not sure since my kids take long showers and my food would be raw or undercooked. Also, if I was baking bread and the oven was off for long showers, my bread would turn out poorly.
Excellent comparison as always. In the comments below Brian B. suggested a deeper dive into cost comparisons, I agree. May I suggest also discussing in more detail energy consumption reduction techniques as complimentary to solar vs. one or the other. I know too much detail, or god forbid math, is a big snooze for most people. That said, I can't tell you how many people really don't get it. Based on numerous conversations, my family members included, are perfectly willing to consider a sales pitch on a $30,000 solar system and commit to a 20 year lease but are extremely negative about spending a couple thousand extra for a 20 SEER vs. 14 SEER AC system. Likewise for people living in older houses, they are reluctant to spend $1,500 on some additional blown in attic insulation or install LED lights. Bottom line: I would rather spend $10,000 on efficiency and comfort and $20,000 on solar then $30,000 on solar only trying to fix an out of control electric bill.
I don't understand where people are getting incandescent bulbs from, weren't they banned a few years ago? The price of LED has fallen like a rock and it is a no brainer to change to LED when the old bulb dies.
The only non-LED bulbs in our entire house are the ones in appliances (oven, refrigerator) and two fluorescent fixtures in my woodshop. Everything else is LED. Why do something else? (I'll be buying LED to replace the fluorescent tubes as soon as those die.)
Thank you Joe, I feel more enlightened on battery selection, but I must have missed something you said, or perhaps I am looking at this in an oversimplified manner. for example, if my current panels / micro inverters generate (using fictitious numbers for illustrative purposes) 30 KW a day, and my house usage is 20 KW a day, then in today's system (without Batteries), I am sending around 10 KW a day into the grid, and the power company pays me a few peanuts for that generated power. So I understand the different battery coupling methods, in the new world, where an Enphase battery or two are installed, where keeping the batteries full takes around 6 KW a day, does my system continue to provide the remaining 4 KW of power into the grid as before, and I simply continue to get micro peanuts from Edison, or, does the new battery system simply throttle the panels down when full, and the grid gets nothing?
Hi S and thanks for writing in. You are correct in your description of how the solar + battery system works. When utility service is up, your solar panels will produce max power. The house is powered first, then the battery is charged, then any excess get sold back to Edison.
Can you do a video on Lavo Solid State Hydrogen Energy Storage vs Tesla Powerwall?
Are u going to do a video about the powerwall 2+ vs the pwrcell?
Yes we will plan on doing one. The problem with Tesla right now is the supply availability.
From some literature I have read I am a little confused on the lithium iron phosphate batteries. When they eventually reach their end of use and have to be disposed of via recycling is there a charge and is it a substantial? I wasn't sure if this was true or applied to specific states. If it is true then the disposal cost should also be a deciding factor if it is substantial or more than the other chemical makeup of other battery types. It appears that the technology is getting better to extend the life of batteries well beyond what I believed they were so it may not matter. Edited to fix autocorrect text.
How would it do coupling the General power cell with the Enohase panels with the micro converters? Are they able to be coupled together to get the best of the micro converters and the capacity/power of the generac battery?
Generac claims to be working on this capability right now. I will let you know more details once they make it official.
Is Florida on the list for installation on the enphase as yet?
Yes we have this available throughout Florida now. Please book a call. solarsurge.net/schedule-call
with dc coupling from panels to batteries, you still need conversion electronics. It is called DC to DC conversion. This is because the voltages are different.
Seems like your electric stovetop should have the highest priority. Load control is a great feature.
TY i was about to ask if you could compare these two. But I really hate that the Generac is on String converters and I really enjoy the Micro inverters. I'd really love to combine these two.
Thanks I had about 5 people ask me to make this video. The micro-inverters are better for panel-level tracking. However, Generac does use sub-string optimizers on the roof to mitigate shading loss.
I agree, and that’s why I’m looking at Enphase with a Lumin panel to give me the micro inverters and power management in the system. Most installers are quoting multipoint sting inverters for the PWrcell, that just doesn’t seem to be what I want in the system.
Question can I buy a Generac power cell wall battery and charge it from the grid and have power if the grid goes down I really don't need solar panels I just want off grid power for standby for my water pump and lights! 😀
When designing a whole house solution, you first have to look at if it's cheaper to replace specific systems like stove, water heating, dryer with gas alternatives. This will greatly reduce the size of the system required and so also battery and the cost of the entire system. Don't try to build a solar system without rethinking the lower cost of replacing older technology.
Joe in your home, do you use battery power at night, or just strictly for backup?
Hi JD and thanks for the question. I am setup for net-metering so I don't need to use the battery every night. My battery stays at 100% full charge on standby in case of a power outage.
Great presentation, but as you said this is a bit of an apples to oranges discussion. To make it more of an apples to apples discussion, I’m curious what happens when you compare two of the Enphase systems tied together vs the Generac. Does the output power of 3.84 for one double to 7.68, and so does that make it close enough to the Generac 9.0 that it can now handle AC/HVAC startup? And how does the cost of two Enphase systems compare to one Generac? If those issues were discussed, this would be a better comparison of the two systems. Thanks.
@Mike Sims Exactly! That is one reason I'd like to know if the Enphase does stack well, and how it "stacks up" to the Generac once you do stack it. Thanks.
Tesla is not available in our area so they are not an option. Have you done a video comparing the efficiency of microinverters to DC Power Optimizers? I would assume that a system such as Enphase using microinverters does contain MPPT or some type of optimization so that the most power is extracted from the solar panels. In other words, a small control that gets the most out of the solar panels. I can see one possible issue with microinverters and that is when the solar panels are a long distance from the rest of the system. High voltage DC from the solar panels such as 400 VDC requires smaller gauge wire. Thanks
I'm very curious to hear from customers who've had to use Generacs Customer Service/Support. I'm a retired IT manager who's had large Generac Generators for my computer rooms and their support was lacking to say the least.
his company sells Generac. so this is biased. what he doesntt tell you is theat Generac is actually the poorly made Parker battery which went out of business when Generac bought it. it s cheap battery. Generac just painted it name on it. It will not be handle these loads that it is promising and certainly not for 10 years or 4000 cycles. Comparing Generac to Enpahse is like compaing plastic and particle board DIY furniture from Wayfair, IKEA or Walmart and furniture that is hand crafted from solid wood. Buyer beware. Also, Enphase is in the business of solar batteries whereas Generac is in the business of propane fueled generators. a whole different world. Generac solar batteries are not what they say they are. They are the cheaply made inefficient Parker junk rebranded with a generator company.what is the cost to you when the Generac breaks down? somethings just are built well. avoid Parker batteries rebranded as Generac
When stacking two Enphase batteries, does the output power double or only the storage capacity?
When stacking batteries, both power and capacity increase.
To be defined as one cycle of battery use does the battery have to discharge a certain amount. If you used it for 5 hours from 3-8 and then for two more hours later in the day. Would that eat up two of the 4000 cycles and end the warranty sooner?
Yes, in the scenario you described, that would be 2 cycles.
Does Generac have any warranty on cycles like Enphase has 4K cycles warranty?
Yes Akb Battery 👍🔋 ⚡
Hi I'm using 6.4 kwh system solar system with no back up battery by Sunrun in Orlando FL, Im wanting to add a whole house back up system. What do you recommend and how can I reach out to you?
Hi Nguyen thanks for reaching out. We can help you get setup with a battery backup in Orlando. Please visit the website to schedule a zoom call: solarsurge.net
Hi GOB i want to now if is more better adding more battery like 18k pwrcell to 36k o instaling pwrgenerator to charge the 18k battery if they need thank you and make new videos on pwrcell Generac thank you GOB
Interesting video, there’s a few significant mistakes, currently the max battery capacity per Enpower system is 12 Encharge 3’s or 4 Encharge 10s for 40 kWh (you said 30). Also it’s worth noting that DC coupled systems DO typically step up or down DC voltage once or several times losing some power. AC systems have a substantial advantages in power output, flexibility and resiliency. with Enphase during the day they have the combined AC power output from BOTH the PV microinverters and the Encharge battery micro inverters. With Generac you are limited to the single inverter. Enphase can go to 15.36kW power (battery only) add the daytime AC PV system output of another 15 kW (multiple size options exist) you have a combined 30kW of AC power!!! Also Enphase supports load control or PV shedding in a simpler and more cost effective way. It seems you overlooked the resiliency of Enphase AC coupled systems, it’s difficult for a system to fail as most stressed items are operated in parallel and operate independently of eachother, with other systems there are many single failure points, that take out a system or a large chunk. I hope you’ll revisit this. Your videos are pretty good.
Did you compare a maxed out Generac system to one of the smallest Enphase configurations? That’s odd
The generac system is soo much better than the Enphase battery- You should learn about the generac battery before you spread this complete false information
Can you confirm a couple of things? 1. I understood Encharge allows up to 4 encharge 10s not 3 and 2. Encharge just released a software update allowing for load control for up to 3 or 4 loads as well as PV shedding. I believe generator support will be released shortly. Not sure how the load control support compares to Generac but would welcome that. Lastly can either system work with the Span smart panel covered here a few months ago?
Neither the Ensemble or Pwr Cell have comms with span at this point of time
Take a look at Lumin. Great complement to Enphase battery system. Power management without having to physically separate circuits to a sub panel. This is what I’m looking at.
@@scottparker4337 yes the Lumin is a good add on option that will easily wire in to control circuits, the main advantage I see with it is that if the power goes out and you are not home you have the ability to select what you want on. I’m not sure how the new load shedding feature for Ensemble didn’t make it into the X Factor 🤷♂️ you have the ability to control loads based on 1. If the load is too large for the ESS when it goes to off grid you can shed. 2. If the load is only desired during a selected SOC day when the battery in a higher level you can activate loads. 3. Turn loads on that exceed the ESS when a generator is used.
The other big miss here was that when the sun is out the power output is boosted by the PV this is huge and can only be accomplished with AC coupling.
@@JasonAndrade427 can you clarify what you mean by power boosted when the sun is out? Generac is a more cost effective and easier to deploy approach for load controls than the encharge system, so for X-Factor it would lose points to the Generac system. The DC bus of the Generac system is more efficient than an AC coupled system, so if the sun is out you still have direct DC to DC battery charging and the total output capacity of 7.6kW. In some scenarios Enphase may have more total output power but for the most part the Generac system will perform better during an outage with 11kW of continuous power, assuming (2) 12kWh battery stacks are deployed at a minimum. The smart control modules from Generac are easier to install and commission than the Enphase load control system. It would require (3) Enphase Encharge 10 systems to meet the same backup power as a single Generac inverter.
@@JasonAndrade427 I haven’t seen anything on the load shedding feature you describe. Any good links out there that talks about it and how to implement? Too many installers default to using physical separation for load management? Would that still be need3d with the shedding feature you describe? No sub panel is my goal, so curious. Again, that’s why I lean to the Lumin.
How long does it take to recharge those batteries using the solar.?
Good questions. That depends on a number of factors including: size of PV array, weather conditions, loads within the house, and how many battery cells you have. Please schedule a consultation if you would like to crunch numbers specifically for your home.
What happens to Generac when the grid is down? Does it keep charging your batteries when the sun is out? Can you hook one of their whole home generators to the system that can top off the batteries if the sun is not charging the panels?
Yes and yes. Generac's system allows 100% power usage during a grid-down event for powering the house and re-charging batteries simultaneously. Pretty much all DC-coupled systems allow for this. You also have the option to connect an external generator for auxiliary battery charging.
@@SolarSurge I thought enphase was the only one who did that but nice to know Generac can too. Plus the battery is more powerful. I wonder how much a solar+battery+generator would cost. Do you know what size of their home generator would be needed to charge the battery?
@@myriadcorp 15kW or larger. Most people just go with the larger 22kW whole house version.
@Homie Homie What size generator would you need to top off batteries in a grid down situation?
I used to watch Green acres all the stuff makes perfect sense 😁👍🤪
I was told that I will not be eligible for 26% ITC if i install the battery this year to my existing solar panel which was installed back in 2019
is it true that battery has to be installed at the same time or at least same tax year in order to get the ITC? Thanks in advance.
My understanding is that so long as the battery is being charged by solar power, then it is considered part of the renewable energy system. This site has other good info on the subject: www.energysage.com/energy-storage/benefits-of-storage/energy-storage-incentives/
Perhaps you might expound on the difference between AC and DC coupled systems during an outage if the battery gets fully discharged. With an AC coupled system, the grid-forming is by the battery inverter. The micro-grid formed allows the solar inverters to keep functioning. If the battery is fully discharged, the battery inverter shuts off, the micro-grid collapses, and the solar inverters turn off, preventing the solar from recharging the battery. Without outside intervention (the power grid returns, or a generator charges the battery, which I believe isn't possible at this time with Enphase), the system will remain OFF. With a DC coupled system, the solar panels directly charge the battery without being inverted, so will function even if the grid is temporarily off, so the system can recover. A DC coupled system will be advantageous for extended outages (think natural disasters, fires, etc.).
I agree that the DC-coupled architecture offers better off-grid performance.
When Generac introduces their new
9,000 to 10,000 inverter Nat Gas or Propane Generator that hooks up to a Generac Solar system I will get one as soon as possible.
14:25 Not sure where the $15k price comes into play. The Enphase 10kW battery has been priced at $7600 for a year now. The problem i have been running into here is the inflated prices for turn key solutions. I have been quoted $58k for a 10kW solar system with Enphase 10kW battery backup. The entire system they proposed can be bought for $21k by me online and i know dealers / installers get these items much cheaper. I also understand profits must be made and labor cost but let's be realistic here $37k or more in profits/labor for a few hours of work. I will DIY the stuff myself!
I have a Generac generator for my home. I’ve had it for ten years plus. It has worked about 50% of the time. I live in the Silicon Valley and have found the authorized service options to be poor. Generac sells commercial generators and I have found that if I can’t get the generator to work during a large power outage, I’m out of luck. The commercial customers are their priority. I would have a hard time justifying another expensive purchase from Generac.
Hello Joe! Hey how much is the cost of a module for the Pwrcell battery?
About $2k apiece for the individual cells.
@@SolarSurge Thank you sir!
@@SolarSurge Another question, how many modules does the battery has when it is purchased
Can you have multiple cabinets of Generac batteries hooked up to one house?
Hi Rebecca and tanks for writing in. You can have up to 2 Generac battery cabinets (36kWh max) per house.
Can the Pwrcell allow the house to run on solar and battery at the same time like the enphase?
I’m moving to El Dorado hills and running the AC is critical. However, I don’t have any septic or well pumps. Trying to figure out what’s best
Yes, PWRCell does allow solar + battery to run simultaneously. However, you are still limited to the max output of the inverter at 7.6kW. For a large central A/C backup, I would recommend doing solar + 2x Tesla Powerwalls for up to 15kW backup power.
@@SolarSurge thanks for the reply! After watching all your videos, I really liked the idea of the enphase! Why do you recommend the power wall for my situation? I really liked the idea of enphase and it’s ability to control the panels on an off grid type situation
@@BimmerFordDude Enphase is just underpowered if you're trying to run central A/C. 3,840W per Enphase battery compared to 7,600W per Tesla battery. Any they are virtually the same price.
@@SolarSurge great info! Based on Tesla’s website, customers cannot purchase the Powerwall without their solar options. Is it possible to source the powerwall through a 3rd party w/o Tesla solar?
The surge power capability isn't really important for house backup. That is because you need a lot of KWH of storage for all day backup, or TOU power shifting. With lots of storage, the limitation of power is in the electronics not the battery. But, if you have a small battery and expect it to provide high power for just an hour, then the battery limitation is important.
Not sure about that nice breezy temperate California climate you speak of. I lived in Chico California one summer and it was never below 100 degrees and there was no breeze and the entire summer it didn't rain except for one hour. One week I went to Redding California and it was over 114 degrees all week. Only San Francisco that I visited for a day and it was 60-70 degrees. Most of the state seems to have harsh hot weather outside of winter from what I have experienced and what I have heard.
My neighbor just had 15 solar panels installed and one Enphase box. He has no batteries set up, just solar. He tells me if the power goes out he loses his solar panels for the rest of the day. When he asked the installer (not connected with this channel) why this was he was told the frequency of the grid has to match the frequency of the panels and control box. I find this very hard to believe unless this is referring to what you stated in one of your videos where you say there was a signal modulated in the voltage similar to modulation demodulation. If you can make sense of this please help me understand how this setup works. Also, I am interested in setting up just solar for charging my Tesla Model 3 is this possible?
Hi Rud, yes this is possible. The solar and EV charger would still be tied to the grid, but you would be able to charge directly from solar power during sunlight hours. Please visit solarsurge.net to book an appointment and we can discuss all the options with you.
@@SolarSurge somehow I mangaged to screw up my question so I decided to give it another shot. My neighbor had 15 solar panels installed on his roof. They have the micro invertors on each panel. They also installed an invertor. Now we have had some power outages here in California and he states when a power outage hits his panels go off line and do not come back on line till the next day. His installer told him it was due to frequency matching between the solar panels and the grid. I have never heard this befroe and would love to learn if this is correct. And the last bit of information on his install he did not have batteries installed with his system. Looking forward to your reply.
What we really need to know is what is the cost for each per kWh?
That isn't really relevant as continuous output and peak output are much more important numbers
what is the cost to you when the Generac breaks down? somethings just are built well. avoid Parker batteries rebranded as Generac
If I am using Enphase micro inverters, are there only certain batteries that are compatible with them? I found out that Big Battery would not work.
You can use either Enphase IQ battery or Tesla Powerwalls with your micro-inverter system.
BEST SYSTEM FOR 2 HEAT AND AIR SYTEMS PLUS POOL PMP AND 4 REFRIGERATORS?
Definitely Generac PWRCell for this type of application
You kept saying that with 6/max battery cabinet the max output is 18kwh. Is that the price of 1 Enphase 10? I got lost a little on the comparison. I understand generac has more max output but only when you have 6 modules? Is the price of 6 modules the same price as 1 Enphase 10?
The price of 2 Enphase 10 batteries is roughly on par with a single Generac PWRCell with all 6 battery modules.
@@SolarSurge so in all fairness you could back up your home with 20kWh of storage. But the generac has a higher energy output if you have multiple high usage/startup like HVAC or water pump. I just thought it was an unfair comparison of 1 Enphase 10 and “1” generac with 6 modules and the price was the same “$$$”. Ok still really helpful info. My company offers Enphase but I’ve heard some good things about generac. Im trying to learn about everything out there so i can eventually be a “solar pro”😌
The IQ7 is a UL 1741 device so it's NEVER a Primary Power Source. When's the PV version of the IQ8 ship in Quantity?
The IQ7 can be upgraded to capitalize/acquiesce on the battery integration...never say never...
With an Encharge battery forming the micro grid voltage and frequency (and the Enpower smart switch as the MID) IQ7s will happily push as much power as they can grid up or down!
My X factor and yours did not come out the same on this one
How many batteries enclosures can each vendor accommodate in their respective maximum configuration?
Pwrcell can have 2 cabinets per inverter. But you can stack inverters too.
Enphase allows up to 3 Encharge 10 batteries stacked together.
@@SolarSurge thank you, does the inverter have the capability to balance multiple inverters, therefore going for 6 enphase batteries per deployment?
@@SolarSurge Ensembles max battery storage is 40kwh or 4-Encharge 10’s
@@SolarSurge correction Ensemble supports up to 40 kw of Encharge per Enpower
Is the PWR cell stackable?
Yes, you can install up to 2 PWRCell inverters and 2 PWRCell battery enclosures.
@@SolarSurge I was told by an electrician that it could be wired up in parallel and have the same effect.
You can add up to 4 cabinets per inverter.
While most of your videos are very helpful this seemed to missing some key information to accurately compare the two systems. Most importantly it didn't seem like you were comparing similar sized systems and it would have been more helpful to review systems of as close to similar size as possible as they are both scalable (apologies if you were and I didn't catch it). Not helpful to compare a single Enphase 10 with. a maxed out PowerCell. The other incredibly important item that seemed to be missing was any reference to the Load Control feature of the Enphase system. Comparing the two approaches to this issue would have given a better picture and indeed the Generac may still have the better system under the high load system you described but the comparison should have been made.
Thanks for the feedback. Enphase load control was just being announced as I recorded this video. Once we get some real world experience with Enphase load control, I will do a follow-up video.
Thx, I was wondering if anyone else had noticed that or if I was imagining things. He gives both systems the same cost score, but seems it would take a much more complex system to enable the Generac system to produce the higher scores in other functions.
"Hot" NMC chem is NOT for High cycle life batteries. EV's do not run 24x7. Cobalt Oxide OK for Backup, but cost per kWh is higher. What's cost to replace the Power Cell's?
I would agree that NMC is not the best for high cycle life. But for home backup, especially heavy loads home backup, NMC is better.
@@SolarSurge - Thinking forward . Toxic NMC likely to have limited availability/scalability like the Powerwall2. LFP = No metals wars + hundreds of sources. I'd give a X Point for replaceable/up-gradable battery modules. We need battery standardization instead of disposable i Junk.
37.5 Amps continuous is not whole home backup. Generac is a bunch of spare parts they keep cramming onto a system they bought, and still don't fully understand.
Sounds like the Generac Power System is better for our situation since we live very rural.
You forgot to add that only your installers have access to install soft ware . I want to install micro invert system I bought second hand enphase installer refused only interested in new install (more money )so regular installer could not install. same with battery bought second hand charged to check and install it has never worked properly enphase not interested . If you purchase this system you are at the mercy of enphase . Not surge protected as my battery burnt out after power surge. 2 yrs after install
For those who simply wants to get their investment back ASAP, and if living in state with net metering. Battery back up should be skipped.
Why do you link net metering and having a level of power security, the battery system? Agree it adds cost, and therefore takes longer to recoup the invest, but to me it’s two different things.
How does net metering help during a power outage?
I agree. Doing straight grid-tied solar with net-metering is the fastest way to recoup your $ investment in solar.
@@SolarSurge Yes, but it sort of defeats the advantage of having power during outages, if you don't have battery backup. In Georgia at least, if you don't have battery backup and you are grid-tied, you have to shut down your solar power completely if the line power goes down. I understand that this is for protection of the linemen working on fallen cables and so forth, but it seems to really be a disadvantage.
@@zinaj9437 How long will your power realistically be out? an hour. two. a day. how often. you will never recoup your investment.
So Enphase battery not good for dishwasher, washing machine, washing dryer, oven & hob, clearly not all being used at the same time.
When it comes to reliability, Generac doesn't stand a chance with Enphase.
I just scheduled a call for next week. I'm tired of messing around with these clowns from Tesla. I ordered 4 months ago and still don't have a install date. Tesla customer service is trash.
Sounds good, Rick. We are happy to help you out.
I KNOW WITH EACH CONVERSION YOU LOSE POWER, SO WHICH IS BEST.
Every time he mentions 120 volts appliances he never mentions a refrigerator. Refers to AC, TV, office, lights but nothing about fridge/freezer.
The fridge/freezer is not considered a heavy. It will work fine on either of these batteries.
Not helpful to compare a single Enphase 10 with. a maxed out PowerCell.
Both are way over priced
Check Enphase. They just reduced the price of the battery by 40% last month.
@@SolarSurge Thanks for the heads up. Looks like the economy is going to crash so time to move inventory, lol.
General is suck product, and service is not existence!
They wipe any bad reviews, all their product
Very on low end!!!!
Enphase is the worst company I work with.
Why is that?
That opinion is worthless without an explanation. Customer service seems to be one of the best at Enphase.
We Instll 24x440watt panels. They offer for this panel iq7+ we instal them and we get only 7kw pick from a 10.5 kw system. The enphase they told us are perfect for the work, are in reality not. They are underperform. Giving only 285w max. After alot of research I see that the iq7A is a beter fit and will not lose 30%of power every day. Already 2 month we are trying to replace with the more powerful one. But no one want to take the blame. Now they say is ower fault.... Supper disappointed still waiting for answer from. Enphase for a solution 2 month gone and nothink. Answer by phone or online chat. "yes is aways good to oversise the panel because we save cost for you by not making them so powerful." what saving cost then in 10h in the morning i already reach the pick of power. The system in in Mallorca a very sunny island. Not in the northpol. The reseller are not good Educated mostly in Spain. The advertise also IQ7+ for 440+w panels where is absolutely not true. I am a traveler who convince a big 20 million property to put solar. I convince to put enthase. Also to use the best solar With PERG technology. Everthink we talk by phone with the enphase reseller and now they eaven don't pick the phone. The last answer "everthink is written in the datasheet. Daesnt mater they told us that iq7+ is perfect fit for us and that they also use this panels all lies.. Now the house owner are supper engry blaming also me that I wanted enphase.... Try to ask a enphase for a inverter. They aways asking what panels you will use. Knowing from beginning what ot will not work. Super disappointed of custom service.
@@sailingteslasailingterra4363 So to summarize your local installer/reseller (not Enphase) recommended the wrong model of microinverter. Now you want Enphase to foot the bill and call their customer service as it was their fault. Make sure you use Enphase gold or Platinum installers and not some dodgy company that does not know the differences between the models.
@@TurreTuntematon no enphase dilership for Spain recomendet. I recomendet awer local installer to use enphase because of the trees making shadow on some panels.
his company sells Generac. so this is biased. what he doesntt tell you is theat Generac is actually the poorly made Parker battery which went out of business when Generac bought it. it s cheap battery. Generac just painted it name on it. It will not be handle these loads that it is promising and certainly not for 10 years or 4000 cycles. Comparing Generac to Enpahse is like compaing plastic and particle board DIY furniture from Wayfair, IKEA or Walmart and furniture that is hand crafted from solid wood. Buyer beware. Also, Enphase is in the business of solar batteries whereas Generac is in the business of propane fueled generators. a whole different world. Generac solar batteries are not what they say they are. They are the cheaply made inefficient Parker junk rebranded with a generator company. You should aslo be aware that Parker/Generac is not compatible with Enphase patented High power production microinveters. Generac must us DC optimizers which is a central inverter which means when one panel is malfunctioning the whole system goes down like Christmas lights. WIth Enphase micro inverters if one panel malfunctions, the other continue to produce electricity and the Enphase inverter is protected under warranty for 25 years so it will be replaced at no cost. With Generac you get a very inefficient old fashioned 20th c system that cannot be relied upon.
Generac has a Bad name because of them Not honoring their Warranties on their generators.
Which is why I won’t but one.
And why would I Trust Generac on their home batteries?