This was the first-ever episode of "The Pakistan Experience" I listened to - and this happened to be the audio-podcast version. As a 75 years old Pakistani living abroad, I simply loved it and remained riveted listening to it right through to the end. So why do I rate this discussion so high? These two words describe that best: it was honest & unbiased. Ordinarily, we tend to exalt our leaders to a level that we start to think of them as super-human, which they are not. For whatever reasons, we have transformed and catapulted Quaid-e-Azam to a level that mentioning a shortfall in his character or actions is construed as blasphemy. Thank you, Dr. Ishtiaq, for your honesty in portraying the Quaid as a human - the way Larry Collins and Dominique Lapierre have done in "The Freedom at Midnight". And lest I forget, the young-looking host (I apologize for not knowing your name) surprised me pleasantly with his knowledge, intriguing questions and indeed a very smiling demeanour. Young man! You have a great future ahead: just don't hope and predict, remain focused creating it. PS. Goes without saying that I'm now subscribed to your channel. ❤️
Ma Sha Allah Great to see the admiration coming from someone who saw the initial years of freedom closely. 👌💯🤝 P.s. The host name is Shehzad Ghias Sheikh, a lawyer, a Comedian and a Lums grad. 🎓
Dear Dr Ahmad I am a refugee from Lahore of 1947 & lucky to be alive today & so are many millions from both sides who survived the holocaust. Both Pakistan & Indian government must apologise to the victims of independence which they hurriedly wanted in return for thevovernighv exit of the Brits in 1947. Both governments did not take precautions so that the blood-shed did not happen but they failed to do so. They were blind for the independence & the division no matter what. The lust for power eliminated the duty for humanity. Gandhi had warned Nehru & Jinnah for the massacre that would follow but they both did not listen. But Jinnah certainly made clear in his last speech before death that Pakistan must be a secular state as India committed itself. I think the leaders under Jinnah had a different plan of an exclusive Islamic nation & that is why it changed to Islamic Republic. Now my Muslim brothers in Pakistan have right to say that they should now move on despite what Jinnah wanted. But would you move on as exclusive Islamic nation or a secular nation? This question is valid for a scholarly Political Scientist like you Sir. One must remember that Islamic State concept violates the UN Charter of Human Rights (UNCHR) for which both India & Pakistan are signatory. Pardon me I am just a scientist not a Political Scientist, my voice, does not matter. Thank you
He is the first balanced intellectual in subcontinent i have come across. I like the dispassionate way he deals with history. Very competent. His courage , awe inspiring
@Hassan if he is bashing Pakistan,so what's the harm. Its truth he is saying. We also criticise India when govt. Do wrong things.. its been 75 years that u guys hvnt realised your mistakes. And thats why Pakistan has never been developed
@Hassan it is rather idiotic to justify our country's wrong doings by comparing them with India, what does India has to do with our mistakes? literally nothing. Exposing India is not going to give us any moral superiority, it is true that every country has its problems but that is exactly why we must focus on them instead of running away from them
I'll start with pointing out the positives of this podcast: A) Highly enlightening. B) Based on facts and evidences, hence, scientific in nature. C) Unbiased interpretation and its elucidation of facts. D) Dr. Ahmed a man of very high intellectual prowess. E) Thodi si taareef host ki bhi karni banti hai jisne itna patiently anchor kiya. And more importantly he had courage to accept the things that went wrong on Jinnah's end.
I am an Indian from Bengal and I follow pakistani politics for past couple of years very closely. Very interesting discussion. Keep up the good work borther and hats off to professor 🙏
I often listen from people of other countries and even in India that India was a secular state and now it is moving towards becoming Hindu Rastra. This is not the case. India was never a secular state. It is propaganda form all the political parties of India for the outside people. Yes, India does not have any state religion but that does not imply that a country that does not have any state religion is a secular state. A truly secular state is a state which does not give any kind of religious preference to any community. In India for Muslims there is a Muslim personal law which is based on Sharia law, Muslim can legally follow polygamy, Triple talaq (only instant Triple talaq is banned in 2017), and others Sharia law. For Non-muslim there is the Hindu Code Bill, Which is based on modern society values and does not allow any kind of religious preference. In my opinion, India will become a truly secular state when India implements the Uniform civil code which I don't see it in the near future.
@nwfp nwfp By 2030 PK shall become largest Muslim country (presently it is 2nd), may be then you shall start claiming that 'Islam originated in PK'. Good luck with your fictional - history about India.
@nwfp nwfp Indian National Congress (b. 1885), RSS (b. 1925). Since when have these political parties have become fount of history? Or may be in PK you don't get to read 'history' as a standalone subject, everything is studied through the prism of religion or politics.
Your statement is contradicting ,when we said india is not secular we talking about discrimination not about muslims laws .second your point about uniform civil code is clearly against democratic values and norms ,government run state on behalf of public ,how any government impose some laws on minority on the the basis of majority .
@@AliHassan-nz1eq In 1946 elections Muslim league won 87% seats reserved for Muslims all over India. In democracy as you know with 51% is simple majority but here Muslims supported overwhelming supported the creation of Pakistan. In 1941, Muslim population was 24.08% while Muslims got 26% land (PK + BD) from United India. 1951, Muslims in India = 9.8% 2011, Muslims in India = 14.2%. Pakistan (1941) = non-muslim = 20%, now 2-3%. Bangladesh (1941) = non-muslim = 28%, now 9%. You cannot have both way. I want Pakistan, get more than your population then stay in India, increase your population & demand all Islamic rights. If you have problem in India, you are free to leave as migration is nothing new. Remember Islam is 2nd largest religion with 58 countries & 1.9Billion population. While Hindus have just 2 countries with 1.15B population. So Muslims are in majority not 'minority', which you claim
I splendidly listen Prof. Saab's words. I am from Nepal and have a great interest in Partition History and Prof. Saab is a great help in this regard. I have learnt to read Urdu script with great labor without any teacher. This is my third Script after Devnagari and Roman .
مجھ سے اکثر پوچھا جاتا ہے کہ پاکستان کا طرز حکومت کیا ہوگا؟ میں کون ہوتا ہوں پاکستان کے طرز حکومت کا فیصلہ کرنے والا؟ مسلمانوں کا طرز حکومت آج سے 13 سو سال پہلے قرآن مجید نے وضاحت کے ساتھ بیان کر دیا تھا۔ الحمدللہ قرآن مجید ہماری رہنمائی کے لیے موجود ہے اور تا قیامت موجود رہے گا۔ (مسلم اسٹوڈنٹس فیڈریشن جالندھر کے اجلاس سے خطاب‘ 12جون 1947ء)
कुरान के कारण ही मुसलमान दुनियाभर में मजाक और नफरत करने की चीज बन गया है. कुरान मतलब से पढ़ने पर ही समझ आता है कि कोई कुरान पर यकीन रखकर भी भाईचारे की बात करे तो वो झूठा है, शडयंत्रकारी है. भारत का आम हुसलमान अरबी समझता भी नहीं, अनुवाद के साथ उसे पढ़ता भी नहीं, पढ़ना चाहता भी नहीं.
Farooq sab fr unho ny Quran ko Society a implement to ni kiya, Balkay woh 1935 ka anjreeo ka likha howa qanoon kuch change kay sath hum par musalat kar diya, We are not talking about what he says. We are talking about what he done.
I like Dr.Sahib. reminds me of my old Uncle.inspires respect and affection. Though I am a punjabi Hindu.🙏 But.muslims can't have it both ways.cant have its cake and eat it too..
Jinnah's daughter's claim on his Bombay house in court is based on the argument that jinnah was khoja Ismaili and therefore his inheritance should be in accordance of Hindu personal law and not muslim personal law in India.
@@aminahshahid8878 Bhai Ismailis are indeed Muslims but they don't abide by 7th century discriminatory laws, they abide by the law of the land wherever they live, based on that she should get her inheritance, do they deserve that is a different issue. And my suggestion to all Muslims is to abandon 7th century laws, in this age and time these laws are inhumane, and discriminatory, you being a woman should be against it.
1 of Best dialogues that ever happened in Pakistan. Dear professor sir is as usual ocean of wisdom. Here more impressive is this young bloke . U r daamn professional dude Man@ 12👌👌
I have read extensively about the Quaid of Pakistan. Have come across certain articles which state that he was a Thakkar gujarati. His father was born hindu and they decided to embrace Islam in their lifetime around the time the Quaid was born. This was because they were maritime traders and also traded in fish, which was not approved of by the Thakkar community. Need to know how true this is.
Dear Dr Sahab, please read my question. Oppression of Muslims in Kashmir Oppression of Muslims in Balochistan Oppression of Muslims in Sindh Oppression of Muslims in KPK Oppression of Muslims in Punjab (west) How should one must decide which and where to fight the oppression of Muslims?
Hi Shezad, I am writing midway through this podcast, writing now so that I dont forget later. It would be really nice to have a list of the book references Dr. Ishtiaq mentioned here, if feasible. I may not be able to read all the books but a few might be possible. Btw excellent and informative session this with Dr. Ishtiaq, quite a myth buster. Many thanks for that! More power to you!
I always learn something new, every time I listen to professor sahab. And i feel good to see that you have a meaningful podcast, and you are a bell read man. Bravo
@ 56:20 - Dr. Ishtiaq Ahmed perfectly described Islamic logic in response to illogical argument, “Islam is at the centre of the state doesn’t make Pakistan an Islamic state.” I have listened to hundreds of Islamic scholars like Mr. Jawed Ghamdi and Zakir Naik - they all twist the words; for example verses in the Quran mean exactly opposite of what’s actually written. The clause in the Pakistani constitution, “only Muslim can be the president and the prime minister” means every Pakistani is equal. This is the wonder of Islamic thinking.
The basic problem is that the source itself is not unidirectional. There are contradictions. Hence it is convenient to twist each sentence to mean exactly the opposite of what appears in normal reading.
I am listening "The Pakistan Experience" from last two weeks consistently and I have to say Hats off to you Shahzad Sheikh for giving us these beautiful intellectual conversations. Hats off brother👋👋👋
The man asked for Islamic state but wanted a secular state, a contradiction. He got Pakistan for being loyal to the British. He was basically a self seeker.
An Islamic state is where all the religious minorities are provided state protection and religious freedom and this is what Jinnah wanted,there was no contradiction as it might be similar to a secular state in some aspects and he was a wise man who knew how to get what he wanted and being loyal to British or pretending to be was just another way, what's wrong with it?
@@vinamrasinghai2339 yes non muslims can have non halal food if they want but it won't be widely available as majority of the muslims won't sell it and only a few non muslims might be selling it, a practicing muslim can't marry a non muslim ,Islamic court won't register such a marriage but he can still marry at a minorities' court if other person's religion allows inter faith marriages
@manoj singh I never said that it would work perfectly because no other political or judicial system works perfectly either , there might be many problems due to majority of people being islamicly uneducated but Sharia law will still be bound to provide protection and freedom to the minorities
If Jinnah was secular,then why did he create Pakistan? If he was so kind to minority why did hindu Sikhs were driven out of their homes which went to Pakistan. If Jinnah was secular then who are iskamists. Who are radicals,fanatics? Which leader provokes them? Jinnah was the leader of secular Muslims or radical fundamentalists? Or,he was simply used by the British? To again divide,India like Bengal. Where was hatred when bengal was divided? Where was a jinnah? No. Because British has a divide and rule policy.
@@anshuraj4277 I am talking about secularism not about which party appease whom. The secular parties are at the fore front of bowing down to Islamists and their demands.
Jinnah was influenced by his law education in England and was indeed secular. There were Hindus in the constituent assembly and Jogendra Nath Mandal was his Minister of Justice and Jagannath Azad wrote the national anthem of Pakistan. The mixing of religion and politics began immediately with the " Objectives Resolution ". Neither Mohammed Ali Jinnah or Kemal Ataturk can sustain secularism in Muslim dominated countries. Hundreds of thousands of Mumtaz Qadris exist ( millions, really!!) in Muslim societies who ferverently believe that ALLAH has given them the brief of keeping a noxious political ideology of secularism should should be kept away from the Islam-sanitized lands.🙂🙂🙂
Jogendranth Mondal was a mere figurehead. There is no record of him having done anything substantive during his time as a Central Minister. He could see the Islamisation of Pakistan, came to India, completely disillusioned and died in obscurity.
Jinnah wasn't secular. He converted his parsy wife into Islam, and he laer cut ties with his daughter when she decided to marry a parsy. I wouldn't call such a person secular.
Jinnah was an opportunist who didn’t know what he wanted and confused after Pakistan’s creation. He was more about his own history and legacy vs fighting for his people. The people ended up less interesting because he had no vision of what he wanted to do with the country that was newly created in 1947. He clearly has NO idea of what ‘nation and institutions’ building meant or what it takes to do that.
Just like to share one thing that , King of Afghanistan Amir abdur Rehman also talked about the partition of Sub continent in his book which was published in 1904 . This book was written by the king itself with the help of katib ( Official writer of government )
No matter how much you discuss, even after 72 years, the fact remains that almost 95% of the hindus and sikhs, who constituted 35% of the population were ethnically cleansed out, their properties confiscated. The wound from that experience still reflects today. I personally know sikhs, who were from big landlord families, who became taxi drivers in mumbai. Their resentment with india and congress is so intense, that it still plagues today. Khalistan movement is from that resentment, not resentment against Pakistan, but resentment against India and the Congress. You have not discussed about this anywhere. Resentment against India in Pakistan is not only for Kashmir, it is for everything. including Bollywood, the success of indian professionals both in india and abroad. My Pakistani associate used to say that you Hindus know how to manipulate and keep others in subjugation. I ask them who stopped pakistanis from education in UK, Canada, USA, Australia etc. Was it the hindus? or is this something inherent in muslims to blame someone else instead of accepting weaknesses, and try to remedy. Hindus in the above countries have succeeded beyond imagination in education and Pakistanis continue to be "backward". This is the jealousy that created Pakistan.
Same claeaning happen to Muslim in the district left in India side of Punjab. Gandhi fooled Sikhs and Punjabi Hindu. Gandhi has been judge by history as cruel person. PM Modi is far better person than Ghandi, Nehru and Mountbatten.
This is absolutely correct ! Iam a Muslim myself but I tell u we only know to blame others .. educated Hindus r an enlightened lot while educated Muslims will only depend on Allah n Allah for everything even to wash their minds n hearts. We will remain backward as long as we fall back on the crutch of religion for everything. Any sect of people who think they only r the best on earth n in the skies n t rest r disliked by god can only be medieval in nature. India has come a long way since 1947 n see Pakistan . Why is Allah not helping Ull ? Because u guys r buffoons.
Jinnah had no vision of india or Pakistan. He was not capable of vision or thought. He had no thinking about future of Pakistan. British had plans for Pakistan. To control it for tacking Russia. Used, left, discarded. Thats the story of Pakistan. They are clueless about future now. They are trying to use China. But not succeeeding
Dr. Ahmed's book on Mr. Jinnah is an objective, dispassionate and a balanced study,even though one does disagree with certain conclusions that he has drawn. Worth and recommended reading.
We Hindu of world are obliged to 🇵🇰jinna sahab kaid e azam as g8 purifying service to Hinduism bcz we love ishtaq sahab as our guru of history. Plz take more green land of us but take remaing 💯🛕🐄🙏Love ❤u Pakistan🇵🇰 plz take remaining land & people pakistani 🇵🇰here ❤
Dr.Ishtiaq Ahmed sir thank you for your wisdom. The interviewer have lake of knowledge about India and Modi/BJP also about RSS. He just talked liked another guy from facebook keyboard warrior. When you ask question with allegations on someone you should also have to quote proof.
Sir, We need NOBLE PERSON LIKE DR. ISHTIAQ SAHIB in Pakistan, Unfortunately We are full of Religious FANATICS, ROGUE ARMY GENERALS AND DISHONEST HISTORIANS in our SOCIETY. We need a Honest, logical and Greedless people like DR. ISHTIAQ. IN PAKISTAN OUR SOCIETY IS DYING AND THIRSTY FOR REAL AND HONEST PEOPLE.
Dr Saheb, you have opened the gate-way of knowledge towards understanding creation of Pakistan and the developments since 14th August 1947. Dr. Saheb, I will be grateful if you tell me how the members of the first Assembly/ Constituent Assembly were elected or selected.
Pakistan will never by friendly to India because then they loose their victim card,and begging bowl and how will they sell India hate. They only sell India hate. We have to go for one India or break Pakistan and make sindhudesh. Noother option. If India has to live,Pakistan has to die. More it lives,more it will hamper indias growth and create roadblocks. India should end their story..look at Germany. So progressive, strong now. This is what India should copy. Increase freedom,economic prosperity, standard of living here. Pakistan will die like East Germany.
" Afsos Ki Hum Doodh Se Bhi Jal Jaatey Hain " We were hoping for a very open relationship between Pakistan and India. It was a divine experience to see Pakistani cricketers play in joint teams in IPL 20 :20 matches. Pakistan and India have so much in common. With due respect to their proud national identities, both countries have the closest historical, cultural, geographic,social, religious and linguistic bonds . Still, we treat each other with so much suspicion . We may place our trusts in very distinct people but we do not have confidence in each other. THIS IS SAD. We are reminded of a famous dialogue from the blockbuster Indian film " Pakeezah" when the bold and fearless Raj Kumar faces the ire of a cautious Hakim Sahib ( Sapru ) for giving shelter to Meena Kumari. Hakim Sahib : Doodh Ka Jala Chhachh Bhi Phook Phook Kar Pita Hai Raj Kumar : AFSOS KI LOG DOODH SE BHI JAL JATEY HAIN
Jinnah is dead and gone. The discussion of what he wanted is irrelevant. What Pakistani people, especially the young, want and what is needed now are more important .
Dr. Ishtiaq Ahmed is right. Shehzad is really sharp. But a Muslim mind however liberal it might be, takes a lot of time and thinking, to understand that Modi ji is taking every body along towards progress and not only Hindus, that the Constitution of India does not allow any discrimination by the Government and the Supreme Court of India protects the rights of all. A Hindu here.
Dear Dr Ahmad Thank your very much for the detailed research on the partition of India & what role Jinnah played in it. I wish to let you know that I am a refugee from Lahore & me & my parens family were lucky to survive the holocaust but millions became innocent victims of the independence & till today nobody ants taken blame for the disaster. In fact it is surprising that Pakistan intellectual like yourself has devoted your life to find the truth but nobody on the Indian side has ever shown any concern of that sort since 1947, because they did not want to bother about the lives of the minorities on both sides,who ended up paying the price for the lust of power of the leaders of that time. Did Jinnah wanted an exclusive Islamic State may remain an indecisive conclusion as he did say in his final speech before death that He wanted Pakistan a nation where people of all religions & faiths could live together. While he did not categorically declare before independence but he certainly did not asked for exclusive Islamic State either, may be the religious leaders just took advantage & claimed it be so. His only worry was what will happen to Muslim minority in a Hindu majority democratic India. This fear was not publicly addressed by Nehru because he did not want to miss the opportunity of becoming the first unelected PM of India & did not want Jinnah to have that privilege. In fact Gandhi showed his wisdom & asked Nehru to step down in favour of Jinnah as he knew the bloodshed that would follow would not be in the interest og both the nations & will remain a paradox that how this could happen. Thank you
1:28:07 Shehzad the very same logic is used by BJP people when they defend Modi in the backdrop of 2002 riots. The argument is thatModi is complicit because of his silence or lack of proactive ness to prevent the riots from happening. Sure even he condemned it once the riots ended just like Jinnah did in August 1946. See the parallels? So if one believes Jinnah didn’t promote violence they should believe Modi is a champion of non violence too.
@@ThePakistanExperience so Jinnah was not in charge after partition of Pakistani state machinery? I see modi as true follower of Jinnah's two nation theory and he is making India a Hindu Pakistan.
The Pakistan Experience the argument Modi’s camp makes is that the entire central government machinery was behind Modi for 10 years ( of congress rule) and couldn’t prove him guilty. Also if we compare the fact, the government in Bengal was of Muslim league in 1946 just as government of Gujarat was of BJP so both Muslim league and the BJP and by extension their leaders are responsible for riots atleast in terms of their inability to contain them. The fact that British chose to let the issue simmer to benefit from the violence is very much akin to the reaction of Congress governments in all the three neighbouring states of Gujarat in 2002( they decided not to extend any help in controlling the riots so the issue could prolong long enough) and cannot be overlooked when we set out to vilify Jinnah or Modi. And this is where I see (personal opinion) the big difference between Jinnah and Modi. That Modi is a right wing leader is a truth and while his involvement in the riots falls in the grey area or the complicit zone or the innocent zone according to the people we source our information from, let’s not forget that Modi was not a big leader in 2002 whereas Jinnah was a national figure at whose doorstep the buck stopped. Perhaps 70 years down the line when people look back at Modi they would look at him like they look at Jinnah today - some hate him, some love him and some note the fact that the grey area dominates a greater part of the person that he is. Again it’s just that I simply can’t stop seeing the parallels between the leaders.
Excellent discussion that deserves to be widely heard. It would help if you could break it down into smaller parts to facilitate easier sharing and ensure listening by the less patient.
These foolish analyst should know the first thing. Poonja was a Hindu we call him Qaid e Azam. His grand father was Premji Lal, father was Poonja Lal They were from village Panali in Indian Gujrat.. Poonja was clever , English selected him as their agent, initially they called him Ismaili, but Imam at Kharadar did not accept this lie. so in 1900 he was dubbed as Sunni.name was changed to Mohammad Ali Hindus were in the game they promoted him as a great Muslim leader Poonja handed over India to Hindus.,who never ruled India Hindus with their castes system always lived under. Muslims Rest history is complicated for unwashed Pakistanis to understand
1:09:14 just nailed it man!! Behind that mosque 🕌 also Always lahore is and will be famous bcz of two special monuments but will develop & shine only after deserving recognition of that “behind structure”….❤❤ Lahore is unluckiest lucky city to not identifying gem 💎 it had produced… Undoubtedly dr. Ishtiaq ahamad is unreservedly & unparalleled best historian & knowledge provided of contemporary.. Thanks to u as well for inviting him for detailed discussions without any hassle
Thank you so much Dear Doctor Sahib and Shezad for this brilliant and eyeopener chat. Cleared to some extent THE ENIGMATIC AND THE PRAGMATIC approach of THE QAUID. Thanks again.
1:47:29 - a strong centre was needed after the departure of a colonial power because provinces could assert their sovereignty thus regionalism could have erupted and destroyed Indian unification.
I do understand Ayesha Jalal's statement that he's just a political scientist, not a historian. There are so many political explanations for everything.
This was the first-ever episode of "The Pakistan Experience" I listened to - and this happened to be the audio-podcast version. As a 75 years old Pakistani living abroad, I simply loved it and remained riveted listening to it right through to the end.
So why do I rate this discussion so high? These two words describe that best: it was honest & unbiased.
Ordinarily, we tend to exalt our leaders to a level that we start to think of them as super-human, which they are not. For whatever reasons, we have transformed and catapulted Quaid-e-Azam to a level that mentioning a shortfall in his character or actions is construed as blasphemy. Thank you, Dr. Ishtiaq, for your honesty in portraying the Quaid as a human - the way Larry Collins and Dominique Lapierre have done in "The Freedom at Midnight".
And lest I forget, the young-looking host (I apologize for not knowing your name) surprised me pleasantly with his knowledge, intriguing questions and indeed a very smiling demeanour. Young man! You have a great future ahead: just don't hope and predict, remain focused creating it.
PS. Goes without saying that I'm now subscribed to your channel. ❤️
Ma Sha Allah Great to see the admiration coming from someone who saw the initial years of freedom closely. 👌💯🤝
P.s. The host name is Shehzad Ghias Sheikh, a lawyer, a Comedian and a Lums grad. 🎓
Ditto! Old and impressed by Shahzad!
any one can tell me the name of book which he is referring
@@aashirkhanjadoon1499 The book is "Jinnah: His Successes, Failures and Role in History". by Dr Ishtiaq Ahmed
as a paxtani, I hope you are **not** doing dawah abroad as otherwise in a few years you will have to find a new kafirum mulk to move to
Dear Dr Ahmad
I am a refugee from Lahore of 1947 & lucky to be alive today & so are many millions from both sides who survived the holocaust. Both Pakistan & Indian government must apologise to the victims of independence which they hurriedly wanted in return for thevovernighv exit of the Brits in 1947. Both governments did not take precautions so that the blood-shed did not happen but they failed to do so. They were blind for the independence & the division no matter what. The lust for power eliminated the duty for humanity. Gandhi had warned Nehru & Jinnah for the massacre that would follow but they both did not listen. But Jinnah certainly made clear in his last speech before death that Pakistan must be a secular state as India committed itself. I think the leaders under Jinnah had a different plan of an exclusive Islamic nation & that is why it changed to Islamic Republic. Now my Muslim brothers in Pakistan have right to say that they should now move on despite what Jinnah wanted. But would you move on as exclusive Islamic nation or a secular nation? This question is valid for a scholarly Political Scientist like you Sir. One must remember that Islamic State concept violates the UN Charter of Human Rights (UNCHR) for which both India & Pakistan are signatory. Pardon me I am just a scientist not a Political Scientist, my voice, does not matter.
Thank you
He is the first balanced intellectual in subcontinent i have come across. I like the dispassionate way he deals with history. Very competent. His courage , awe inspiring
u forgot "hats off"
@@brachisaurous HATS OFF!
@Hassan if he is bashing Pakistan,so what's the harm. Its truth he is saying. We also criticise India when govt. Do wrong things.. its been 75 years that u guys hvnt realised your mistakes. And thats why Pakistan has never been developed
@Hassan I would love to hear your counter points.
@Hassan it is rather idiotic to justify our country's wrong doings by comparing them with India, what does India has to do with our mistakes? literally nothing. Exposing India is not going to give us any moral superiority, it is true that every country has its problems but that is exactly why we must focus on them instead of running away from them
Good informatic and intellectual discussion..... Love from India 🇮🇳
Yub
Jinnah created an Islamic country that no muslim wants to visit. Noone lining for their citizenship. No muslim wants to migrate to Pakistan
One of the best discussions on your channel. It was a treat to listen to Dr. Ishtiaq Ahmed.
Prof. Dr. Ishtiaq is not only a genuine scholar but also a remarkable human being. May he live long happily.
@2107Slash no history book in India talk much about jinnah ,
I'll start with pointing out the positives of this podcast:
A) Highly enlightening.
B) Based on facts and evidences, hence, scientific in nature.
C) Unbiased interpretation and its elucidation of facts.
D) Dr. Ahmed a man of very high intellectual prowess.
E) Thodi si taareef host ki bhi karni banti hai jisne itna patiently anchor kiya. And more importantly he had courage to accept the things that went wrong on Jinnah's end.
Every Pakistani should follow and study Isthiaq Ahmed, then ALL doubts will be Cleared .
He is very objective.
I am an Indian from Bengal and I follow pakistani politics for past couple of years very closely. Very interesting discussion. Keep up the good work borther and hats off to professor 🙏
And never forget Bengal was one of key conspirators for dividing India & mass killings of Hindus by then head Sohrawardi.
@@sanjayshrivastava8671 I agree.
I often listen from people of other countries and even in India that India was a secular state and now it is moving towards becoming Hindu Rastra. This is not the case. India was never a secular state. It is propaganda form all the political parties of India for the outside people.
Yes, India does not have any state religion but that does not imply that a country that does not have any state religion is a secular state. A truly secular state is a state which does not give any kind of religious preference to any community.
In India for Muslims there is a Muslim personal law which is based on Sharia law, Muslim can legally follow polygamy, Triple talaq (only instant Triple talaq is banned in 2017), and others Sharia law. For Non-muslim there is the Hindu Code Bill, Which is based on modern society values and does not allow any kind of religious preference.
In my opinion, India will become a truly secular state when India implements the Uniform civil code which I don't see it in the near future.
@Praful Patel That's why he was cunning.
@nwfp nwfp By 2030 PK shall become largest Muslim country (presently it is 2nd), may be then you shall start claiming that 'Islam originated in PK'.
Good luck with your fictional - history about India.
@nwfp nwfp Indian National Congress (b. 1885), RSS (b. 1925). Since when have these political parties have become fount of history? Or may be in PK you don't get to read 'history' as a standalone subject, everything is studied through the prism of religion or politics.
Your statement is contradicting ,when we said india is not secular we talking about discrimination not about muslims laws .second your point about uniform civil code is clearly against democratic values and norms ,government run state on behalf of public ,how any government impose some laws on minority on the the basis of majority .
@@AliHassan-nz1eq In 1946 elections Muslim league won 87% seats reserved for Muslims all over India. In democracy as you know with 51% is simple majority but here Muslims supported overwhelming supported the creation of Pakistan.
In 1941, Muslim population was 24.08% while Muslims got 26% land (PK + BD) from United India.
1951, Muslims in India = 9.8%
2011, Muslims in India = 14.2%.
Pakistan (1941) = non-muslim = 20%, now 2-3%.
Bangladesh (1941) = non-muslim = 28%, now 9%.
You cannot have both way. I want Pakistan, get more than your population then stay in India, increase your population & demand all Islamic rights. If you have problem in India, you are free to leave as migration is nothing new.
Remember Islam is 2nd largest religion with 58 countries & 1.9Billion population.
While Hindus have just 2 countries with 1.15B population.
So Muslims are in majority not 'minority', which you claim
Shehzad is a very sharp and informed guy and I admire Dr. Ishtiaq Ahmed. An excellent discussion.
I love to listen him . He is soo honest and truthful. He tells about the Pakistan history soo well . My very favorite historian. Stay blessed 🙏🙏
Dr. Ishtyaq ahmed saab jaisa insaan aur koi nahi dekha maine..... Hairani hoti he ke wo kitne unbiased hain..... God bless him🎉
I splendidly listen Prof. Saab's words. I am from Nepal and have a great interest in Partition History and Prof. Saab is a great help in this regard.
I have learnt to read Urdu script with great labor without any teacher. This is my third Script after Devnagari and Roman .
Much respect. Good luck on your journey, and I hope you inspire other youth to follow in your footsteps.
Amazing bro. All of South Asia should be together ❤
Great
مجھ سے اکثر پوچھا جاتا ہے کہ پاکستان کا طرز حکومت کیا ہوگا؟ میں کون ہوتا ہوں پاکستان کے طرز حکومت کا فیصلہ کرنے والا؟ مسلمانوں کا طرز حکومت آج سے 13 سو سال پہلے قرآن مجید نے وضاحت کے ساتھ بیان کر دیا تھا۔ الحمدللہ قرآن مجید ہماری رہنمائی کے لیے موجود ہے اور تا قیامت موجود رہے گا۔ (مسلم اسٹوڈنٹس فیڈریشن جالندھر کے اجلاس سے خطاب‘ 12جون 1947ء)
Tbhi tumhara bedaa gark h.... Gark hi rahega ....
कुरान के कारण ही मुसलमान दुनियाभर में मजाक और नफरत करने की चीज बन गया है. कुरान मतलब से पढ़ने पर ही समझ आता है कि कोई कुरान पर यकीन रखकर भी भाईचारे की बात करे तो वो झूठा है, शडयंत्रकारी है. भारत का आम हुसलमान अरबी समझता भी नहीं, अनुवाद के साथ उसे पढ़ता भी नहीं, पढ़ना चाहता भी नहीं.
Agar aisa he toh sharia nafiz kro tum ho kon smjh nahi pa rahe he
Farooq sab fr unho ny Quran ko Society a implement to ni kiya, Balkay woh 1935 ka anjreeo ka likha howa qanoon kuch change kay sath hum par musalat kar diya, We are not talking about what he says. We are talking about what he done.
Excellent discussion between Dr sahab and you. This is original history of India and Pakistan and partition also.
I like Dr.Sahib. reminds me of my old Uncle.inspires respect and affection. Though I am a punjabi Hindu.🙏 But.muslims can't have it both ways.cant have its cake and eat it too..
Dr. Ishtiaq Ahmed, what an intellectual giant! It’s an education listening to him. Please invite him again.
Jinnah's daughter's claim on his Bombay house in court is based on the argument that jinnah was khoja Ismaili and therefore his inheritance should be in accordance of Hindu personal law and not muslim personal law in India.
Khoja ismailis are muslims as well thus his inheritance should be in accordance with Islamic law
@@aminahshahid8878 According to indian personal law, It isn't.
@@aminahshahid8878 What she was saying that Jinnah followed Hindu laws in the property.
Lo ji ... kya pagalpan hai
@@aminahshahid8878 Bhai Ismailis are indeed Muslims but they don't abide by 7th century discriminatory laws, they abide by the law of the land wherever they live, based on that she should get her inheritance, do they deserve that is a different issue. And my suggestion to all Muslims is to abandon 7th century laws, in this age and time these laws are inhumane, and discriminatory, you being a woman should be against it.
1 of Best dialogues that ever happened in Pakistan. Dear professor sir is as usual ocean of wisdom. Here more impressive is this young bloke . U r daamn professional dude Man@ 12👌👌
I admire Dr Ishtiyaq Ahmed Knowledge
Amazing how he condones Jazia!
I must admit the interest and knowledge of Mr. Shahzad Ghias and also for hosting this show.
I love Dr Ishtiyaq sb. My favourite. Such encyclopedic knowledge and such humility.
DR Sb is one of the greatest political Scientists of Subcontinent
@ThePakistanExperience What a Treat To Listen #Dr.Ishtiaq Ahmed
I have read extensively about the Quaid of Pakistan. Have come across certain articles which state that he was a Thakkar gujarati. His father was born hindu and they decided to embrace Islam in their lifetime around the time the Quaid was born. This was because they were maritime traders and also traded in fish, which was not approved of by the Thakkar community. Need to know how true this is.
Its true. Thats why jinnah was hateful of hindus. He was hindu earlier..he had a grudge. He sold fish. His village was vegetarian
In the grand scheme of things, how does it matter? Your shit don't smell??
I enjoy Dr. Ahmed due to his deep knowledge and his disproportionate modesty.
Dear Dr Sahab, please read my question.
Oppression of Muslims in Kashmir
Oppression of Muslims in Balochistan
Oppression of Muslims in Sindh
Oppression of Muslims in KPK
Oppression of Muslims in Punjab (west)
How should one must decide which and where to fight the oppression of Muslims?
Why so? You forgot to mention Many more
Hi Shezad,
I am writing midway through this podcast, writing now so that I dont forget later. It would be really nice to have a list of the book references Dr. Ishtiaq mentioned here, if feasible. I may not be able to read all the books but a few might be possible.
Btw excellent and informative session this with Dr. Ishtiaq, quite a myth buster. Many thanks for that!
More power to you!
kindly tell the book name plz
Excellent......professor is very knowledgeable and unbiased......❤️
Dr. Istiak Ahmad does indepth research and gives objective opinions.
I always learn something new, every time I listen to professor sahab. And i feel good to see that you have a meaningful podcast, and you are a bell read man. Bravo
PAKISTAN will become worse than Afghanistan soon
@ 56:20 - Dr. Ishtiaq Ahmed perfectly described Islamic logic in response to illogical argument, “Islam is at the centre of the state doesn’t make Pakistan an Islamic state.” I have listened to hundreds of Islamic scholars like Mr. Jawed Ghamdi and Zakir Naik - they all twist the words; for example verses in the Quran mean exactly opposite of what’s actually written. The clause in the Pakistani constitution, “only Muslim can be the president and the prime minister” means every Pakistani is equal. This is the wonder of Islamic thinking.
The basic problem is that the source itself is not unidirectional. There are contradictions. Hence it is convenient to twist each sentence to mean exactly the opposite of what appears in normal reading.
Unbiased, Profoundly narrated.. Love from India
Sir mai shimla se hu or wo train ajj b chalti hai kalka-shimla. Sun k bda acha lga itne bde-2 log yaha aye hai...
Such a clarity of thoughts , depth of knowledge and a straight talker
such a pleasant , humble and knowledgeable person. 👏👏👏
I am listening "The Pakistan Experience" from last two weeks consistently and I have to say Hats off to you Shahzad Sheikh for giving us these beautiful intellectual conversations. Hats off brother👋👋👋
The man asked for Islamic state but wanted a secular state, a contradiction. He got Pakistan for being loyal to the British. He was basically a self seeker.
Under-rated comment
An Islamic state is where all the religious minorities are provided state protection and religious freedom and this is what Jinnah wanted,there was no contradiction as it might be similar to a secular state in some aspects and he was a wise man who knew how to get what he wanted and being loyal to British or pretending to be was just another way, what's wrong with it?
@@aminahshahid8878 So a non-Muslim can marry a Muslim. Will non-Muslims be served non-halal meat?
@@vinamrasinghai2339 yes non muslims can have non halal food if they want but it won't be widely available as majority of the muslims won't sell it and only a few non muslims might be selling it, a practicing muslim can't marry a non muslim ,Islamic court won't register such a marriage but he can still marry at a minorities' court if other person's religion allows inter faith marriages
@manoj singh I never said that it would work perfectly because no other political or judicial system works perfectly either , there might be many problems due to majority of people being islamicly uneducated but Sharia law will still be bound to provide protection and freedom to the minorities
Dr. Ishtiaq is always encouraging to his juniors. Wish I could have more opportunities to learn from him.
If Jinnah was secular,then why did he create Pakistan? If he was so kind to minority why did hindu Sikhs were driven out of their homes which went to Pakistan. If Jinnah was secular then who are iskamists. Who are radicals,fanatics? Which leader provokes them? Jinnah was the leader of secular Muslims or radical fundamentalists?
Or,he was simply used by the British? To again divide,India like Bengal. Where was hatred when bengal was divided? Where was a jinnah? No. Because British has a divide and rule policy.
Thanks for sharing your valuable thoughts and knowledge related to history.
🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏Thanks Dr & Professor sb… we appreciate you for your knowledge tank sir🙏
The best part is ( divide the country and then think the relation will be like US and Canada 🤔🤔🤔
So much of learning by Professor Ishtiaq Ahmed! Astonishing!!!
While going through the comments, I guess 99.99 % r hindu commentators here or from India....Dr ishtiaq speaks only for India 😢
In India Secularism is synonymous with Muslim appeasement.
No...lol
Parties appease all communities for votes
@@anshuraj4277 I am talking about secularism not about which party appease whom. The secular parties are at the fore front of bowing down to Islamists and their demands.
And bjp always appease hindus like karsewak would not be punished even after he has done a crime
For me this interview is informative regarding knowledge of history
Thank you so much, DOCTOR SAHIB JEE.
Jinnah was influenced by his law education in England and was indeed secular. There were Hindus in the constituent assembly and Jogendra Nath Mandal was his Minister of Justice
and Jagannath Azad wrote the national anthem of Pakistan.
The mixing of religion and politics began immediately with the " Objectives Resolution ".
Neither Mohammed Ali Jinnah or Kemal Ataturk can sustain secularism in Muslim dominated countries.
Hundreds of thousands of Mumtaz Qadris exist ( millions, really!!) in Muslim societies who ferverently believe that ALLAH has given them the brief of keeping a noxious political ideology of secularism should should be kept away from the Islam-sanitized lands.🙂🙂🙂
Jogendranth Mondal was a mere figurehead. There is no record of him having done anything substantive during his time as a Central Minister. He could see the Islamisation of Pakistan, came to India, completely disillusioned and died in obscurity.
Jinnah was neither secular or fundemental.
He was an opportunist.
A proper policitian who craved power and would do anything to get it.
Jinnah wasn't secular. He converted his parsy wife into Islam, and he laer cut ties with his daughter when she decided to marry a parsy. I wouldn't call such a person secular.
Jinnah was an opportunist who didn’t know what he wanted and confused after Pakistan’s creation.
He was more about his own history and legacy vs fighting for his people. The people ended up less interesting because he had no vision of what he wanted to do with the country that was newly created in 1947.
He clearly has NO idea of what ‘nation and institutions’ building meant or what it takes to do that.
Just like to share one thing that , King of Afghanistan Amir abdur Rehman also talked about the partition of Sub continent in his book which was published in 1904 . This book was written by the king itself with the help of katib ( Official writer of government )
Thank you
No matter how much you discuss, even after 72 years, the fact remains that almost 95% of the hindus and sikhs, who constituted 35% of the population were ethnically cleansed out, their properties confiscated. The wound from that experience still reflects today. I personally know sikhs, who were from big landlord families, who became taxi drivers in mumbai. Their resentment with india and congress is so intense, that it still plagues today. Khalistan movement is from that resentment, not resentment against Pakistan, but resentment against India and the Congress. You have not discussed about this anywhere. Resentment against India in Pakistan is not only for Kashmir, it is for everything. including Bollywood, the success of indian professionals both in india and abroad. My Pakistani associate used to say that you Hindus know how to manipulate and keep others in subjugation. I ask them who stopped pakistanis from education in UK, Canada, USA, Australia etc. Was it the hindus? or is this something inherent in muslims to blame someone else instead of accepting weaknesses, and try to remedy. Hindus in the above countries have succeeded beyond imagination in education and Pakistanis continue to be "backward". This is the jealousy that created Pakistan.
Same claeaning happen to Muslim in the district left in India side of Punjab. Gandhi fooled Sikhs and Punjabi Hindu. Gandhi has been judge by history as cruel person. PM Modi is far better person than Ghandi, Nehru and Mountbatten.
❤
This is absolutely correct ! Iam a Muslim myself but I tell u we only know to blame others .. educated Hindus r an enlightened lot while educated Muslims will only depend on Allah n Allah for everything even to wash their minds n hearts.
We will remain backward as long as we fall back on the crutch of religion for everything.
Any sect of people who think they only r the best on earth n in the skies n t rest r disliked by god can only be medieval in nature.
India has come a long way since 1947 n see Pakistan .
Why is Allah not helping Ull ? Because u guys r buffoons.
Excellent program... well conducted and truly informative. Keep it up.
Jinnah had no vision of india or Pakistan. He was not capable of vision or thought. He had no thinking about future of Pakistan. British had plans for Pakistan. To control it for tacking Russia. Used, left, discarded. Thats the story of Pakistan. They are clueless about future now. They are trying to use China. But not succeeeding
Fan of Dr Ishtiaq❤
Excellent interview very grateful to dr sb for bring out his prospective of history.
Subscribed as discussion looked informative.
Cheers from India 🇮🇳
Dr. Ahmed's book on Mr. Jinnah is an objective, dispassionate and a balanced study,even though one does disagree with certain conclusions that he has drawn.
Worth and recommended reading.
Thanks a lot. I learnt so much about partition.
Can’t get enough of this.
Agree with this gentleman
We Hindu of world are obliged to 🇵🇰jinna sahab kaid e azam as g8 purifying service to Hinduism bcz we love ishtaq sahab as our guru of history. Plz take more green land of us but take remaing 💯🛕🐄🙏Love ❤u Pakistan🇵🇰 plz take remaining land & people pakistani 🇵🇰here ❤
Very balanced discussion by prof sab
Dr.Ishtiaq Ahmed sir thank you for your wisdom.
The interviewer have lake of knowledge about India and Modi/BJP also about RSS. He just talked liked another guy from facebook keyboard warrior. When you ask question with allegations on someone you should also have to quote proof.
If modi is butcher n Does RSS is a murderer
Sir, We need NOBLE PERSON LIKE DR. ISHTIAQ SAHIB in Pakistan, Unfortunately We are full of Religious FANATICS, ROGUE ARMY GENERALS AND DISHONEST HISTORIANS in our SOCIETY. We need a Honest, logical and Greedless people like DR. ISHTIAQ.
IN PAKISTAN OUR SOCIETY IS DYING AND THIRSTY FOR REAL AND HONEST PEOPLE.
tera naam hi religious fanatic h
great informative program
also professor sb have great knowledge
🙌
Hard to defend a man like jinnah... you tried well...
Dr Saheb, you have opened the gate-way of knowledge towards understanding creation of Pakistan and the developments since 14th August 1947. Dr. Saheb, I will be grateful if you tell me how the members of the first Assembly/ Constituent Assembly were elected or selected.
Pakistan will never by friendly to India because then they loose their victim card,and begging bowl and how will they sell India hate. They only sell India hate. We have to go for one India or break Pakistan and make sindhudesh. Noother option. If India has to live,Pakistan has to die. More it lives,more it will hamper indias growth and create roadblocks. India should end their story..look at Germany. So progressive, strong now. This is what India should copy. Increase freedom,economic prosperity, standard of living here. Pakistan will die like East Germany.
" Afsos Ki Hum Doodh Se Bhi Jal Jaatey Hain "
We were hoping for a very open relationship between Pakistan and India. It was a divine experience to see Pakistani cricketers play in joint teams in IPL 20 :20 matches.
Pakistan and India have so much in common. With due respect to their proud national identities, both countries have the closest historical, cultural, geographic,social, religious and linguistic bonds .
Still, we treat each other with so much suspicion . We may place our trusts in very distinct people but we do not have confidence in each other.
THIS IS SAD.
We are reminded of a famous dialogue from the blockbuster Indian film " Pakeezah" when the bold and fearless Raj Kumar faces the ire of a cautious Hakim Sahib ( Sapru ) for giving shelter to Meena Kumari.
Hakim Sahib : Doodh Ka Jala Chhachh Bhi Phook Phook Kar Pita Hai
Raj Kumar : AFSOS KI LOG DOODH SE BHI JAL JATEY HAIN
We need to spread love and build trust!
Jenab @@alizawasimkhan1324 Sahib Adaab
Indeed
Allah ki gaand me lulli aur gando Nabi laudakhor tattikhor Muhammad ki badboodar ghazi haji namazi aashiq gay rasool pichwada me lulla ho Akbar 🐖🕋💩
Bahut Khub....
Jenab @@rayzimmerman6740 Sahib.Adaab Thanks
The way he debunk conspiracies is awsome. Great academic.
Good discussion.. But Pakistan has already killed it's minority, and now they are going after Shia. Please do not compare Pak with India..
With respect and India isn’t
Jinnah is dead and gone. The discussion of what he wanted is irrelevant. What Pakistani people, especially the young, want and what is needed now are more important .
Dr. Ishtiaq Ahmed is right. Shehzad is really sharp.
But a Muslim mind however liberal it might be, takes a lot of time and thinking, to understand that Modi ji is taking every body along towards progress and not only Hindus, that the Constitution of India does not allow any discrimination by the Government and the Supreme Court of India protects the rights of all. A Hindu here.
🙌
He's BACK! Been waiting ❤️
Dear Dr Ahmad
Thank your very much for the detailed research on the partition of India & what role Jinnah played in it. I wish to let you know that I am a refugee from Lahore & me & my parens family were lucky to survive the holocaust but millions became innocent victims of the independence & till today nobody ants taken blame for the disaster. In fact it is surprising that Pakistan intellectual like yourself has devoted your life to find the truth but nobody on the Indian side has ever shown any concern of that sort since 1947, because they did not want to bother about the lives of the minorities on both sides,who ended up paying the price for the lust of power of the leaders of that time. Did Jinnah wanted an exclusive Islamic State may remain an indecisive conclusion as he did say in his final speech before death that He wanted Pakistan a nation where people of all religions & faiths could live together. While he did not categorically declare before independence but he certainly did not asked for exclusive Islamic State either, may be the religious leaders just took advantage & claimed it be so. His only worry was what will happen to Muslim minority in a Hindu majority democratic India. This fear was not publicly addressed by Nehru because he did not want to miss the opportunity of becoming the first unelected PM of India & did not want Jinnah to have that privilege. In fact Gandhi showed his wisdom & asked Nehru to step down in favour of Jinnah as he knew the bloodshed that would follow would not be in the interest og both the nations & will remain a paradox that how this could happen.
Thank you
01:00:00
The spirit of islam by syed ameer ali
One summer day doesn't make a summer
Very instructive and informative.
Love from Dhong ,Gujerkhan,Pakistan.
1:28:07 Shehzad the very same logic is used by BJP people when they defend Modi in the backdrop of 2002 riots. The argument is thatModi is complicit because of his silence or lack of proactive ness to prevent the riots from happening. Sure even he condemned it once the riots ended just like Jinnah did in August 1946. See the parallels? So if one believes Jinnah didn’t promote violence they should believe Modi is a champion of non violence too.
@@ThePakistanExperience so Jinnah was not in charge after partition of Pakistani state machinery? I see modi as true follower of Jinnah's two nation theory and he is making India a Hindu Pakistan.
The Pakistan Experience the argument Modi’s camp makes is that the entire central government machinery was behind Modi for 10 years ( of congress rule) and couldn’t prove him guilty.
Also if we compare the fact, the government in Bengal was of Muslim league in 1946 just as government of Gujarat was of BJP so both Muslim league and the BJP and by extension their leaders are responsible for riots atleast in terms of their inability to contain them.
The fact that British chose to let the issue simmer to benefit from the violence is very much akin to the reaction of Congress governments in all the three neighbouring states of Gujarat in 2002( they decided not to extend any help in controlling the riots so the issue could prolong long enough) and cannot be overlooked when we set out to vilify Jinnah or Modi.
And this is where I see (personal opinion) the big difference between Jinnah and Modi.
That Modi is a right wing leader is a truth and while his involvement in the riots falls in the grey area or the complicit zone or the innocent zone according to the people we source our information from, let’s not forget that Modi was not a big leader in 2002 whereas Jinnah was a national figure at whose doorstep the buck stopped.
Perhaps 70 years down the line when people look back at Modi they would look at him like they look at Jinnah today - some hate him, some love him and some note the fact that the grey area dominates a greater part of the person that he is.
Again it’s just that I simply can’t stop seeing the parallels between the leaders.
👍👍👍👍 another great discussion!! always feel much more aware about our history and reality!! after watching ur shows.!
This channel actually does represent the modern Pakistani generation people
Excellent discussion that deserves to be widely heard. It would help if you could break it down into smaller parts to facilitate easier sharing and ensure listening by the less patient.
These foolish analyst should know the first thing. Poonja was a Hindu we call him Qaid e Azam. His grand father was Premji Lal, father was Poonja Lal
They were from village Panali in Indian Gujrat..
Poonja was clever , English selected him as their agent, initially they called him Ismaili, but Imam at Kharadar did not accept this lie. so in 1900 he was dubbed as Sunni.name was changed to Mohammad Ali
Hindus were in the game they promoted him as a great Muslim leader
Poonja handed over India to Hindus.,who never ruled India
Hindus with their castes system always lived under. Muslims
Rest history is complicated for unwashed Pakistanis to understand
Very inspiring way of elaborating forgotten history of indo pak
1:09:14 just nailed it man!!
Behind that mosque 🕌 also
Always lahore is and will be famous bcz of two special monuments but will develop & shine only after deserving recognition of that “behind structure”….❤❤
Lahore is unluckiest lucky city to not identifying gem 💎 it had produced…
Undoubtedly dr. Ishtiaq ahamad is unreservedly & unparalleled best historian & knowledge provided of contemporary..
Thanks to u as well for inviting him for detailed discussions without any hassle
What is this "behind the mosque" structure?
Lov pur . Lov ki city. Now Islamic. How long. Ram kuch karega. Lov hamara tha ,hai rahega.
Dr Saab is a fine human
A great teacher a great resercher a great writer......thank you Dr Ishtiaq Sb.
The host is quite well-read and mature .
Thank you so much Dear Doctor Sahib and Shezad for this brilliant and eyeopener chat. Cleared to some extent THE ENIGMATIC AND THE PRAGMATIC approach of THE QAUID. Thanks again.
excellent ❤
❤
Dr.sb. may Allah SWT live you long to advocate this poor called PAKISTAN.
I was waiting for dr saab s new interview
1:47:29 - a strong centre was needed after the departure of a colonial power because provinces could assert their sovereignty thus regionalism could have erupted and destroyed Indian unification.
regionalism is still quite strong in India but there is stability and every state knows they can't survive alone separated from India.
@@uzochiokeke4328 the strong centre he meant was what we have today
The shia sunni debate is similar to how both Buddhists and jains claim Ajatshatru the 2nd great Haryanka ruler of the Maghad Empire.
Sir, he was Admiral Ahsan and had also been CNS but at that time he was Flag to Governor General of Pakistan Quaid Azam M A Jinnah.
I do understand Ayesha Jalal's statement that he's just a political scientist, not a historian. There are so many political explanations for everything.
thanks for arranging this important lecture
100 % Sach hai kio k Pakistan mey aaj bhi koi Muhammad ali jinnah per PHD nhi kar sakta
aapke pure discussion v jogendranath mandal ke example se ye samajh me aata hei ki puri muslim leeg=muslim aleet jhansebaaz thi,v aaj tak hei.
This is so informative
Great scholor. Thanks for uploading
@@ThePakistanExperience your videos and interview questions are superb!! Must watch material for those who 🧡 history. Keep it up