Did Mr.Jinnah Really Want Pakistan? (Urdu) Dr. Ishtiaq Ahmed & Dr. Pervez Hoodbhoy
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 24 ธ.ค. 2020
- Some historians have claimed that Pakistan was thrust upon an unwilling Jinnah by the Indian National Congress. Dr. Ishtiaq Ahmed rejects this in his new path-breaking book "Jinnah". In his conversation with Dr. Pervez Hoodbhoy, he also says we should not give too much importance to the promises made to Pakistan's minorities by Jinnah in his famous speech of 11 August 1947.
English Version:
• Did Mr. Jinnah Really ...
#PervezHoodbhoy #IshtiaqAhmed #Jinnah #Quaid-e-Azam
My respect to both of you sir.
This is not independence where people lost their birth place.I am an Indian who lost birthplace of ancestors.
Respect from India.🙏
I agree with your thoughts because my parents are from India. My mother's entire family is in India, and my father's family is half in Karachi and half in Punjab. Our entire family was separated, and we were left behind. The Partition destroyed our families, and we never met again. There are many problems here too, and there are many problems there too. However, the countries that became independent after Indo-Pak are ahead of us. Somehow, India is ahead of Pakistan.
Dr. Ishtiaq Ahmed's work is gold standard. Thank you Prof.
Prof. Ahmed's lifetime efforts contribute to any possibilities of understanding and reconciliation between the two bitterly inimical nations.
Prof. Ahmed has contributed enormously to world peace.
This is also true of Prof Hoodbhoy. I had the good fortune of attending to Prof Hoodbhoy's memorable 'post-dinner' talk at Sutlej hostel, JNU during my student days sometime between 2001-2006.
I even had a brief chat with him after the Q&A session.
Jaswant Singh has also written a book on Jinah of 700 pages or more these individuals never mentioned it.
@@irfanhuq5918 Oh Jaswant Singh, Advani wrote hear say, Ayesha Jalal tried a commercial version, but Dr. Ahmad 's book is like evidence based and unbiased text book in my opinion.
A response to Peevez Houdbhoy for his Anti -Quranic and Anti True Islamic way of thinking and we present in defiance with challenging data from The Quran,so everybody is invited to listen the whole lecture with care..
Thanks
th-cam.com/video/Go0UCsF7c_U/w-d-xo.html
سچی تاریخ
We want a longer interview with this learned author!
Read all his books.
A response to Peevez Houdbhoy for his Anti -Quranic and Anti True Islamic way of thinking and we present in defiance with challenging data from The Quran,so everybody is invited to listen the whole lecture with care..
Thanks
th-cam.com/video/Go0UCsF7c_U/w-d-xo.html
By the way . If we obey Dr ambedkar's opinion (100%population exchange) means in from Pakistan bring all minority into India) it was perfect deal.
Now what is done is done. No need to force anyone to leave
it also included non-muslims (well Sikhs/Hindus/Parsis at least), to move to India... but Jinnah wanted the Dalits to stay behind to do menial labour
You are misleading people whether Jinnah was certain to partition both countries or it was the circumstances that had changed the course whatever lead us to become independent one thing that still stands is that his decision was practical till date for Muslims after we see the way they treat Kashmirs
@@hudabaig5990 from the way Pakistanis have treated Hindus and Sikhs, and have managed their economy and education, it is clear that you guys didn't deserve us. You need to sink further below and grovel at China's door before you realize that partitioning a 5000 year old civilization was a mistake.
Great personalities ..... few of them left in Pakistan.
respect from India
This old man is in London and other one is barely sustaining inside Pakistan.
A planted person.
Kuch bhi bolega pakistan mai rehta hai ye 😮@@independentnationalist1740
With all due respect I would like to ask you, if Jinnah was so secular and reluctant to partition India then why he had given call to 'Direct Action'?
Just listen to the whole thing, he said that it's a wrong perception that jinnah was secular, he was not. Listen to the end.
Being secular doesn't prevent one from being violent. Also, Prof. Ahmed doesn't argue that Jinnah was reluctant to partition India, he actually argues the opposite that he was strongly in favour of it.
Direct Action was called by Surawardy
Jinnah was a big hypocrite and a sellout. After causing the first violent religious partition of Bharat in our history of 10,000 years. Corrupt and divisive Jinnah was not a hero.
@@rakhimukerji7937 no it was Jinnah's..Also known as "farewell to constitutional means" speech, it's freely available on the internet just as his "two nation" theory. Suhrawardy saw to its successful implementation.
When I was in UK I used to listen English thinkers talks on Indian partitioning. They were unanimous that Queen would have lost power by leaving united India behind. So Indian split was as per English rulers design. Indian Hindus supported Muslims for more than seven hundred years and living together for such a long time they became accustomed to Muslim traditions. Even at partitioning Hindus leaving Pakistan were financially well off than Muslims. Its a tragedy that English people exploited Mughals incompetency and took over this region. during its 100 years rule East India Company destroyed the religious harmony between the people of united India through their famous doctrine of divide and rule and still we see that culture in the establishments of India and Pakistan.
but why would queen loose all her powers by leaving india united? First of all there was no queen ruling Britain at that time (it was King George, father of Queen Elizabeth), second partition or no partition, Britain was suppose to leave india in any circumstances, infact leaving a united india would have been less difficult for them as they just had to transfer the power to Congress and leave.
Brits snatched power from Marathas and Sikhs not from Moghuls.
@@msr7373 I used the word Queen as head of British Empire. Historically its correct that King George was there at that time. Brits generally do not colonize a state for more than 100 years and its true that they were leaving India anyway. Partitioning was actually aimed at multidimensional objectives; the main being to secure trade routes and security of the region. Through partition Brits cleverly plugged hot spots, probably ten in number, in the region and the capacities of the armies left behind were never built to combat levels so that they may not become a threat in the future. These were merely a better form of police forces to control the respective areas. Generals promotions are vigilantly observed and we may see that none of Pakistani or Indian generals have a combat mind. They, however, are good policemen. other objective was to keep a check on India through Pakistan and to China through India. So we see whenever there is any military buildup on Indian side West shall always support Pakistan while against China they shall support India. This system worked well to pass through industrial age. Now West is getting into high tech activities and they have moved low tech industry to India and China. Now Gulf oil and our man power are no more important and land routes don't need that much security. In the coming years we may see a complete change in the existing financial, educational and state systems that might be a step forward to a more civilized societies.
@@narayanshenvi8154 Initially Brits cleverly used local lords of these communities to disintegrate Mughal Empire and then suppressed Sikhs and Marathas to establish their Raj in the subcontinent.
There is no such thing as "united India". Stop with the romanticism of British colonialism. British India was never a country, it was a colony of Britain.
Ayesha Jalal got her PhD in Cambridge university for a false thesis that Jinnah was a secular. It showed the low standard of that university.
Huge difference in intellectual standing of both.
Dr ishtiyaq ahmed Is love 🖤
The speech delivered by Jinnah on 11th August 1947, which was vouching for secularism, after that he didn't talked about secularism at all.
In fact the speech, which was blacked out by his own newspaper Dawn, was an eye wash for preventing persecution of non-muslims in Pakistan and stopping migration of muslims from India to Pakistan.
A response to Peevez Houdbhoy for his Anti -Quranic and Anti True Islamic way of thinking and we present in defiance with challenging data from The Quran,so everybody is invited to listen the whole lecture with care..
Thanks
th-cam.com/video/Go0UCsF7c_U/w-d-xo.html
Jinnah was a lawyer and he could mould his lecture according to the audience. The audience in 11 August 1947 were mainly the British. Thus, he pretended to be a secularist in front of them.
just finished watching a series of videos that were hosted by Pervez Hoodbhoy featuring Dr Ishtiaq Ahmed a Punjabi, Pakistani political scientist who migrated to Sweden and became a professor at Stockholm university. In these videos Dr Ishtiaq criticizes Mr. Jinnah roundly for his handling of the partition, his ego, and his lack of empathy for the killings that took place after partition. He says that unlike the leaders of Congress Mr. Jinnah did not spend one night in jail and did not write any book. He was a good lawyer hired by the nawabs of India to argue their case for partition with the British. He also states that Mr Jinnah when asked what would become of the Muslims left behind in India , said at Kanpur that he was willing to sacrifice 20 million Muslims left behind there if they hindered the creation of Pakistan and partition of India.
On the other hand he pays great tributes to Mr Gandhi and Nehru and other Congress leaders for their foresight, sympathy towards Muslims and for their broadminded secular outlook.
He says that Jinnah was not a liberal and the August 11 speech that is quoted to support his liberal stance post partition was just one of many speeches and one swallow does not make a spring.
All Jinnah's speeches before and after this were based on the division and differences between Hindus and Muslims and the argument that they could not live together after the British left.
He says that Jinnah sahib knew that in order to get Pakistan there had to be communal riots which would convince the British of his point of view and did nothing to stop them.
He says nothing about Allama Iqbal the poet who first gave the idea of Pakistan and does not acknowledge any contribution from Raja sahib of Mahmudabad who bank rolled the country-Pakitan for the first few years.
In summary he paints a very dark picture of Jinnah and his Pakistan.
Due to his supprt for the Congress point of view and praise for Mr. Nehru and Gandhi, hi books have received very wide readership in India and he is invited frequently for talks there where he further elaborates his point of view on Mr. Jinnah and his failures.
Coming from a Punjabi this is quite strange. If here is any one group that benefited most from the creation of Pakistan it is the Punjabis in Pakistan.
Dr Ishtiaq cites references for each of his statements and one will have to believe him although reluctantly. one technique thathe does use as dio all people who want to propage a particular point of view is to make selective choices of incidents and their references. He gives the impression from his writings an illustartes it further in his talks by examples which show that HIndus , sikhs and muslims were living peacefully in pakitan , india before and after partition and contue to have love for each other after it.
While this may be tru, he fails to point out that the killings of Sikhs in Rawalpindi by the punjabi mulims was the one most important factor that caused the massive communal riots, in Punjab and he murder of over one million people in Punjab which then spread to other parts of India.
He fails to point out that the so called Kashmir problem between Indai and Pakistan is essentially a Punjabi punjabi problem. a urdu speaking or sindhi speaking person in Pakistan has little or no interest in it. The little interest that is generated in these parts is by invoking the religious nature of the problem.
IF a book like this was written by an Urdu speaking person, I would find it easier to understand since the partition that took place essentially sacrificed the Muslims living in the Muslim minority provinces on the altar of Pakistani nation hood.
The ones who came over to Pakistan did not do much better since they were discriminated in government jobs, by quotas for Karachi where the majority had settled and were restricted in joining the Armyand other forces.
The well to do of them migrated to other parts of the world and the ones that could not were condemned to live in ghettos in Karachi and Hyderabad and were constantly faced violence from the Patahns and others living in these cities. So complaints against Jinnah's Pakistan would sound more reasonable from them. But criticism of Jinnah coming from a Punjabi who was given a country on a silver platter by Jinnah are beyond comprehension.
My main point is that, I wonder why this book and videos are coming out at this time.
I have no problem with Hindus and Muslims living peace fully together in India and Pakistan. I think Pakistan and India should resolve their differences peacefully and infact have argue inmy blogs that the Kashmir dispute is just a red herring and Pakistan should not pursue it. etc. etc. And if the references that Dr Ishtiaq cites are correct then his position on Jinah and Pakistan are perhaps tenable.
However, what makes me a bit uneasy is the timing of all this coming out and the suspicion that there may be more than what meets the eye in all this.
You see, when one has to destroy a nation one needs to weaken its institutions like the Judiciary, the Army , the police the bureaucracy and others. we have already done a very good job of all this ourselves. over the last 20 years or so.
The only thing that some old fools like my self still hold onto is the notion that perhaps Mr. Jinnah tried his best and did not get enough time after partition or things would have been better in Pakistan today.
These are the lingering strands of nationhood that still exist in some minds like mine.
To completely destroy a nation, it is necessary to snatch these remaining life lines of nation hood and extinguish ALL hopes so that even people like myself would be forced to say: that Pakistan was a bad experiment that did not work out so let us close the book and move on.
This , I think is the ultimate objective of these videos and books. If this is so then we need to see who would benefit from such a situation,
Perhaps it is a ploy from the West in conjunction with its partners in the region. Just like it is said that the creation of Pakistan was in fact a part of the greater western strategy to have a client state in south Asia which could be used against the Soviet Union after the WW II . Now that the Soviet Union has been destroyed and Russia effectively contained there is no need for such a client state. To combat the new western Enemy China, teh west already has the enthusiastic support of India - so there is no need for Pakistan. It is expendable. The aspirations of the local people or their concerns do not figure in these grand strategies. so too bad if some Pakistanis do not like this outcome.
To pursue this theory further, i would want to investigate the financial flows that have supported DR. Ishtiaq's works.
People like Pervez Hoodbhoy have enthusiastically agreed with what he says. I cannot disagree with much of what he says (if he has not cheated on his references) , but have questions about his selective methods of analysis and concerns on why he is saying all this at this time.
So I would caution the audience and intellectuals like Pervez Hoodbhoy to be a bit more critical in their thinking before swallowing all this hook line and sinker.
I would be grateful for comments on this note from friends and not so friendly people.
Jinnah’s speech on 11 august 1947 was designed for the British who were the main audience for him on that day. That was a lawyer’s speech. A lawyer can give different speech on different occasions.
you must be prove before any aligation with Strong Evidance
جو وہ ہمیں دے گئے ہیں اسکی حفاظت اور ترقی ہر ایک کا قومی فریضہ بنتا ہے۔
kon dy gia
Finally someone came with facts!!!
A response to Peevez Houdbhoy for his Anti -Quranic and Anti True Islamic way of thinking and we present in defiance with challenging data from The Quran,so everybody is invited to listen the whole lecture with care..
Thanks
th-cam.com/video/Go0UCsF7c_U/w-d-xo.html
Partition of British India has resulted in the prevention of Islamisation of people of remaining Indian subcontinent. Pakistan is declared as a monocultural society with majority religious rights due to phobia of other religions whereas India is declared as a multicultural society with minority religious rights. Read those judgements of various high courts and supreme court on minority religious rights in Indian constitution. Utilising this, large scale en-masse conversations are taking place into Christianity and now Hindus are reduced to 50 to 60 percent or less.
and what about RSS and Hindutwa
The Aim of history is to put across" Forgive but don't forget , if you don't remember your past one is condemned to repeat it "
Jinha, a Gujarati, mainly lived in posh locality in Mulbar Hill Bombay and became very rich lawyer but never lived among Muslim communities, only with Hindus and Parsis. He could speak only Gujarati and English not any other Indian languages. He never went to Mosque until close to his death. He realized that his was very close to death due to his life style, with smoking and drinking which probably caused the incurable TB or lung cancer. So as a shrewd lawyer and just like current politicians he played religious card to create a country to become a head of state so that he would die as such. My dad,a Gujarati and teacher, grew up in South Bombay early in 1920's and as a young man studied both Gandhi and Jinha closely including attending the high court proceedings to observe his arguments and also meeting him personally. He told us that Jinha was a very smart lawyer but never expected that Gandhi would able to unify India against British rule so he never fought for the freedom.He waited until a right time to ask for a separate home land and took very extreme step calling for "Direct Action". Interestingly, I as an engineering intern, had met Jinha's grandson Nusli Wadia in his factory who resembled very like his grandfather.
Yeah u were right with him
You forgot apart from His drinking binges Jinnah was very fond of eating Bacon, Ham and Pork.
Corrupt Jinnah was a willing pawn in the British plan to partition India.
Jinnah thought himself to be at least the equal of Nehru,Gandhi and other Congress leaders but being a muslim he realised he could never be PMin a hindu dominated India so he planned and plotted with Churchill and other Western leaders to create Pakistan which would be a vassal state of USA ,UK.From here the western countries could keep an eye onboth USSR and China.Perennial beggar state of Pakistan was only too happy to oblige so long as yhey were paid handsomely for use of their territories
Thanks for your valuable feedback on this issue.
History is what actually happened and not what these two gentlemen think happened. Jinnah was not acting alone but as a representative of the Muslim League to negotiate a settlement on behalf of the Muslims of India. The terms for the negotiation were clearly laid down in the resolution passed by the Muslim League in the resolution passed by it in Lahore in 1940. It called for the grouping of provinces where the Muslims were in the majority that would be autonomous in a federal or confederal India. If this arrangement was not accepted by the Congress Party, then Jinnah was to call for the partition of India. A careful study of history will show that the actual plan to partition India was prepared by V.P Menon, the Reforms Commissioner under Mountbatten, with Pundit Nehru's participation, in Simla in May 1947. Neither Jinnah nor any other Muslim leader was consulted (see 'Indian Summer: The Secret History of the End of an Empire' by Alex Von Tunzelmann', p. 191 and 'The Transfer of Power Documents Vol. X', p. 299 as well as 'Mission with Mountbatten' by Campbell Johnson, p. 58). Partition was not imposed by the British nor a conspiracy between them and Jinnah. It is highly unbecoming on the part of pseudo historians to try and re-invent history and mislead un wary readers.
Dear Ishtiaq and Pervez, the happiness and celebrations that were observed in India and Pakistan were for gaining independence from the British Rule.
However, the deep pain and anguish experienced on the both sides was in fleeing from death, destruction and rioting of the partition. The two communities were torn asunder from their centuries old habitat to go and find new habitations of hate. Please read Amrita Pritam on partition.
Ishtiaq you seemed to have aged more than Pervez. With warm regards Ravi Singh
Very aptly explained, Singh sahib..
The sufferings of Sikhs and Hindus was far greater.They were chased out systematically of the areas which are now called Pakistan.Nobody chased Muslims out of India,they went out of their free will, now being called Mohajirs.
@@vhtevhte you may have only heard of systematic killings in Pakistan, my early memories are of growing up in refugee tents.
I am not clear what you meant by saying Hindus and Sikhs suffered more than Muslims?
Even as refugees fleeing to India we were not welcomed by co-relgionists in the neighbouring states of Rajasthan and UP. As refugees, we were called "Uncivilzed Punjabis" it reveals an inbred resentment of the other.
Does this hate carry on even to this day, is the question?
Growing up some years later, I felt ashamed when I heard of killings in several districts in the Eastern Punjab.
Unless we shed this politics of hate and resentment for the other communities and castes, we will keep on killing to even the score, whether in India or in Pakistan. It is important that we become humans instead of systematic.
@@vhtevhte now you got it so shut the crap up !!! There were more muslims who migrated then those who come out from punjab even if we work on data bcs 14% of sikhs and hindus in exchange there were 35% of muslims from east punjab and from other parts like rajasthan up haryana they couldn't make it so obviously atrocities faced by muslims were more i mean were they in position to fight when the army was against them and their own so called brothers in independence were fighting against them ... One thing i would say sikhs should had been atleast been careful but they didnt and their loss was massive they could have talked to muslim leaders
@@damn738 Our government has taken the right decision of not recognising Pakistani degrees.It is simple mathematics.Total Muslim population in India is 25 cr more than the population of Pakistan.Hindus in Pakistan non existent.There cannot be any argument on the subject.So called educated Pakistani people coming up with some non existent statistics.This reflects why Pakistani citizens cannot even elect their own PM.Cannot pay medicine bills.People below poverty line growing by the hour.Chaos not a country.People who don't accept mistakes will have to go downhill.There is no scope for upward mobility.
Your honest approach is like spiritual discourse. May God bless you 🙏 ❤
The problem is that Pakistan doesn't want to know the truth
I just didn't understand what quaid e azam meant when he said " I will have the muslims of Hindu majority provinces martyred and smash them". When Hindus were being slaughtered in Karachi he couldn't stop that saying that nobody listened to him. This excuse sounds familiar. Imran also says his" masters" didn't allow him to function . What a defeatist explanation by quaid. In case of imran one can understand.
partition of pre independent India was a biggest blunder which in current circumstances turned out to be blessing in disguise.Nehru & Gandhi committed even biggest blunder by not insisting on total transfer of population from both sides as they knew that to keep their reign on power they needed a solid vote bank which they created by giving undue concessions to Muslims to make them stay back & made Maulana Azad who was not even born in India & had no formal education.This policy was later on called Nehruvian policy/secularism.They easily forgot that India could still remain secular even if it had no Muslims as India had other religious minority like Sikhs,Jan's, Buddhist, Jews & Christians.Maybe if they had planned peaceful transfer of population from both sides then India might have been free from communal riots & also India Pakistan relations might have been better then what they are today.
Thank you Ishtiaq Saab. This is the conclusion anyone will get to if they choose to just read Ayesha Jalal's book(or even Jaswant Singh's book) and form an independent opinion on Jinnah's motivations based solely on facts mentioned in the books. There is a cottage industry of Jinnahpologia with people like Jalal and Yasser Latif Hamdani ascribe noble intentions to Jinnah based on some gymnastic psychoanalysis without any basis in facts about Jinnah's words.
Looking forward to reading your book.
Is Jaswant Singh too a Jinnah apologist?
@@Dendronish Undoubtedly. He does not even call himself a historian.
These people romanticize Jinnah as a misunderstood hero(based on his actions when he was in Congress. Fewer fiction writers can accomplish such immediate character empathy) and blame Nehru for decisions taken as fait accompli, when, in speech after speech, Jinnah tries to burnish his communal credentials and Nehru his secular and socialist ones.
I can only speculate as to the motivations of Jaswant Singh. As a hypothesis charitable to his intellect, I would say BJP kind of people want to blame everything on Nehru, so they absolve Jinnah of his sins. And Pakistanis ride on this BS train of RSS because it suits them to perpetuate their own myths -that their leader was secular(which Pakistani liberals hope against truth) or that he wanted Pakistan as a last straw to 'save' muslims from Hindus(some Islamists and majority of Pakistani centre wants validation of their state).
@@rubyjackass lmao yeah all of them are fiction writers while this biased writers is a historian 🤣
Great program! What a breath of fresh air. The humanism, morality, and rationality of Dr Hoodbhoy are like a lamp that lights up the darkest corners of obscurantism, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness. Looking forward to many more programs. If possible, please increase the duration of the program so that issues can be covered in depth.
A response to Peevez Houdbhoy for his Anti -Quranic and Anti True Islamic way of thinking and we present in defiance with challenging data from The Quran,so everybody is invited to listen the whole lecture with care..
Thanks
th-cam.com/video/Go0UCsF7c_U/w-d-xo.html
The Interview should long last..covering all aspects...we are awaiting much discourse on the topic..Thanks for your precious time..
.Dr Ishtiaq is very correct,indian never wanted division of India,but they had to agree with this demand very unhappily.
The video was a bit short. Good Q n A by Prof. Hoodbhoy and Dr. Ahmed. Reality can be distorted but can't be changed. Good work Dr. Ishtiaq Ahmed.
A response to Peevez Houdbhoy for his Anti -Quranic and Anti True Islamic way of thinking and we present in defiance with challenging data from The Quran,so everybody is invited to listen the whole lecture with care..
Thanks
th-cam.com/video/Go0UCsF7c_U/w-d-xo.html
Happy New Year 2021 Professor sahab,
Fanatics will not like you there, we respect your views regarding humanity and knowledgeable person like you will be welcomed here, my Best Wishes 🌹
👍👍👌👌👌
A response to Peevez Houdbhoy for his Anti -Quranic and Anti True Islamic way of thinking and we present in defiance with challenging data from The Quran,so everybody is invited to listen the whole lecture with care..
Thanks
th-cam.com/video/Go0UCsF7c_U/w-d-xo.html
I highly respect Dr. Hoodbhoy and his contribution to mass awareness. That said, it took me quite some time to understand Jinnah's perspective. His human frailties notwithstanding, the man was tall. Ideology is not fixed. It is an instrument and has been blatantly used even in the so called 'Free World.' Jinnah's faith, discipline and unity have been even more misinterpreted than the two nation theory. It was faith in conviction, discipline in public life and unity in diversity. Hoodbhoy Sahib, you are a good scholar. Please do not tread in murky terrine.
Basically Jinnah was a hypocrite. He divided the nation based on religion and then thereafter put up mask of secularism without any concrete plan for upliftment of left out minorities in Pakistan. That show he was simply keen to pursue his agenda what suits him without any vision, leaving the nation in lurch after his demise.
History is NOT Science hence there is lots of scope of MISINTERPRETATIONS,
When Khilafat agitation was going on, and it was led by Femous Ali Brothers ,Gandhiji SUPPORTED them,Jinha asked Gandhiji why Congress being a Secular Party could support a religious of Khilafat Party? Gandhiji' s reply was as it was against the British so we supported! Jinha was not satisfied( it was in the mid 1920s)
In the early 1930s Jinha left for England & started practicing Law there but due to some unknown reasons he came back and joined Muslim League ( !!) and became the most IMPORTANT leader of ot!! Who finally demanded a separate homeland, if very objectively analyzed Congress had NOT objected the demand Vociferously, though Gandhiji alone said it will happen on my deadbody
When the Bargain was at peak the Congress boycotted Crisp MISSION to bury all chances of keeping the country united as ML proposed to make the United Country of Federal Structure keeping only four Portfolios (Defence,Finance,Communications & External Affairs) with the Central Govt and rest with the States,which Congress didn't agree
In the
Two intellectuals of Pakistan. I would love to listen them more often
For sure ... its a pure listening pleasure when 2 educated historians debate over these issues ..wondering how to lay hand on that 800 pager book ... do we know who the publishers are ??
You two are hindu and musalman so respect the border and stay away from each other
@@ashishmohite6766 Cant be more stupid than this ... while I will respect the border, cause as it stands today they are two sovereign states ... why exactly do I need to stay away from each other ?? ..where exactly is this stupid hatred stemming from ?
@@ashishmohite6766 you may keep your unsolicited counsel to yourself. Besides, if you are so keen, please patrol the border yourself rather than being a cowardly armchair sipaahi of the Hindu Nation. 🕉️🕉️
@@atanughosal01 not hatred but an advice in public.
Jo bhi DARD se shuroo hota hai WO kabhi success NAHI hota
Aman sabse zaroori hai 🙏🙏🙏🙏🇵🇰🇵🇰🇵🇰🇵🇰🇵🇰🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🇵🇰🇵🇰🇵🇰🇵🇰🇵🇰🇵🇰🇵🇰🇵🇰🇵🇰🇵🇰🇵🇰🇵🇰🇵🇰🇵🇰🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏
Very informative talk. Thanks to both the Scholar.
Jitni lanat aur nahusat iss banday k muh pe hy utni he bakwasoyat se bhari hui baaat cheet ye sahab farma rhe hain
Thank you for the talk Sir .,
آپ دونوں ہی قابل احترام اور قابل تعریف ہیں ۔
It's nice to such an intellectual discussion on pakistani portal... After partition Gandhi ji had done protest for paying 56 crore to pakistan... Even Gandhi ji given statement that, partition will be on my dead body..
@Sandeep k copy paste bheekari spotted
Sir hope you leave long I never watched your videos find it on mooro podcast now I am watching and listening everyone.... Great professor ❤️❤️❤️
Lots of love and respect for you Sir from your own country The Great India 🇮🇳, Jai Hind Jai Akhand Bharat, Vandematram.
My due respects to both of these great learned men. I think it has been more than enough on Media & every where else to talk about the division of India. I hope this topic never comes up again. Now, as Professor Hoodbhoy rightly said - what is the way forward. And Dr. Ishtiaq responded that it was given in his book. If I have a chance, I will read that book. Especially I want to see that part in the book where Dr. Ishtiaq has quoted Mr. Jinnah saying that would rather sacrifice 2 crore Muslims in a part of India to Save 7 crores - absolutely does not make sense. Even a person with bare common sense would not have said that. Jinnah was an extremely smart and highly educated person. How could he have said that. Especially the parts that were going to be Pakistan were heavily Muslim populated and they were under no threat of being rescued - boggles my mind.
Very informative... Totally agree..
Thank you for your insights Drs. This is a great gift of knowledge on Jinnah's birthday.
For all intent and purposes, Barrister MA Jinnah was an atheist ( No Offence meant, intentional or otherwise). He did not know much about the Religious Bigots on the loose. He was the only spokesman for Muslims of India. After using all bargaining chips, the vivisection of the Sacred Cow , became inevitable and was undertaken. 1.5 million people were massacred at the time of Partition. Men and women who had lived under a modus vivendi for centuries , broke all barriers of civilization when the License to Kill was given them by their respective religions. No holds were barred, no compassion was shown , by killers and arsonists on all sides. When Mr Jinnah realized the gravity of what had happened , he was consumed with consumption and died soon after. A voluminous book by Dr Ishtiaq Ahmed ~ 75 years after the Partition and half a century post bifurcation in 1971 , would open old wounds. Suffice it to say, the TNT was a non workable tragedy. The Partition should never have taken place. A United India with Muslims forming ~50% of the total Indian Population would have been a hard NUT TO CRACK. Life certainly would have more competitive!! Concerning MA Jinnah's post Partition Speeches , they were mere window dressing, presenting a softer Image of the Country post the BLOOD BATH!!
Now, it's not really a matter of what he wanted or not, what matters the most is to fix the problems that are prevailing within Pakistan. A true Islamic State, an epitome of a state, but instead of that, we find extremists on both sides.
2 scholars are discussing while "Aree gere unpad log" is criticising them
Oh bhai, they're discussing this topic for the people. So, every one has a right to criticise them or be agree with them.
@@talha2024 But you can't deny a fact though. can you?
@@talha2024 uncle people here are throwing opinion on the fly based on irrelevant who said who and not fact based challenge to the book which itself is like a sophisticated research book.btw i have ordered the book :)
Yeah sure mr. Einstein.
@ yash
❤❤❤❤❤❤🇮🇳ishtiaq Ahmed is most loved scholar.... Love ❤u from India 🇮🇳
A response to Peevez Houdbhoy for his Anti -Quranic and Anti True Islamic way of thinking and we present in defiance with challenging data from The Quran,so everybody is invited to listen the whole lecture with care..
Thanks
th-cam.com/video/Go0UCsF7c_U/w-d-xo.html
Indians were HAPPY because they got Freedom .
That's why Celebration.
To the point answers with evidence by Dr Isthiaq sahib, this is called proper research.
Nice to see Dr. Hoodbuoy challenged him properly.
I believe, it's high time that people of Pakistan must shed image of identifying themselves with religion. Even some people in India must shun the same
Quaid e Azam a true blessing for Muslims of subcontinent 🇵🇰 🇵🇰 🇵🇰
Very true. Not just for Muslims, for Hindus as well. We Hindus thank him from bottom our hearts for creation of Pakistan.
There would have been lot of religious riots and lot of lives lost from both religions.
Good riddance
Eye opener.
Thanks a lot.
Jinnah was the advocate of Muslim Nawabs and Jamindars, who thought if India was handed over to the popular political party - Congress then their hold over Muslim population will be lost and they will be reduced to mere ordinary citizens. Unlike the Congress leaders Muslim Leaguer's never went to jail and enjoyed benefits from British. Hence they faded away when partition achieved.
Hello Dr Saab, a big fan of you from Delhi 🙏🙏
Dr.Ishtiaq and Dr.Pervez both are very learned .I always wait for your valuable interpretation.It is correct Jawaharlal Nehru is master mind of partition
Nehru was the mastermind? Have you read the book. Wow.
Dr. Istiak Ahmad and Dr. Parvez Hoodbhoy are highly educated and sensible scholars. They deserve the respect of all Indians and Pakistanis.
بہت ہی اہم موضوع پر یہ گفتگو کی گئی ہے. ڈاکٹر پروفیسر اشتیاق احمد صاحب نے بہت گہری اور زبردست تحقیق کی ہے.. جو کہ از حد قابل قدر ہے. یہاں پر کسی حد تک مہاتما گاندھی نہرو قائد اعظم اور مولانا ابوالکلام آزاد کا موازنہ سامنے آتا ہے.. میں نے حقائق حقائق ہوتے ہیں.. ولی خان کی کتاب بھی پڑھی.. بہت ہی دلدوز اور شرمناک حالات پیش آئے.. ڈاکٹر پروفیسر ھود بھائی صاحب بہت بہترین موضوعات پہ آواز اٹھاتے ہیں.. بہر حال پاکستان کے حالیہ حالات ان سب باتوں کے گواہ بن چکے ہیں کہ اشتیاق احمد صاحب کی تحقیقات درست ہیں
Great admire to these two intellectuals. I am watching this video 3rd time.
Me too.... 3 rd time I am watching.
A response to Peevez Houdbhoy for his Anti -Quranic and Anti True Islamic way of thinking and we present in defiance with challenging data from The Quran,so everybody is invited to listen the whole lecture with care..
Thanks
th-cam.com/video/Go0UCsF7c_U/w-d-xo.html
Who should be held responsible for 5 million deaths horror during the partition !
Handler's of partition, British. Partition was mismanaged. Thousands of people migrated after 1947 in much more peaceful environment cz of well managed procedure. Muslim majority Kashmir region is also the reminiscent of diverting from division plan and sowing the seeds of enimty between India and Pakistan.
Islam
Muslim league forced British raj and Congress and the Islamic radicalism of Muslim league is the reason of bloodshed in 1946 & 1947
There are lots of Mullahs who contributed to this bloodshed
Direct action day in 1946 by Jinnah and his boot lickers is one example
@@suryaprakashkoli6680
Well said
Bloodshed in any part of the world is contributed by this cult 😍
The most pissful ideology 😍🤩
How does it help, anyway? The way forward is to analyse and not make such mistakes and begin a process of reconciliation. From Pak side reconciliation wont be easy because of the military and the fundamentalists. Even after partition Pak has continued anti India terrorism by a thousand cuts. Healing process is next to impossible. India would care a damn if only terrorism stops. How is India otherwise concerned with Pakistan? We wish Pak well However, the terrorism must stop. That alone will bring peace. And Pakistan has no control over terrorism. In fact the world has no control on religion being used for terrorism.
M A Jinnah never wanted to get separated from Hindustan. He was fooled into this grave mistake by the Brits and their henchmentin AMU. What a sad story.
Excellent Analysis with Dr Hoodbhoy and Dr Ahmed being the voice of Sanity.
Path of confrontation and hostility by Pakistan with India should be abandoned and forsaken. Pakistan ought to mend its equations and relations with India So that both countries live in peace and Harmony reaping the benefits of economic cooperation.
Great. India attacked Pakistan 3 times yet it is Pakistan that needs to change. What a twisted logic it is is called brain washing by your enemy. Eajaz
One in million Pakistan can speak the truth at desired times that too with fellow academician......
A response to Peevez Houdbhoy for his Anti -Quranic and Anti True Islamic way of thinking and we present in defiance with challenging data from The Quran,so everybody is invited to listen the whole lecture with care..
Thanks
th-cam.com/video/Go0UCsF7c_U/w-d-xo.html
where can we buy the book?
A response to Peevez Houdbhoy for his Anti -Quranic and Anti True Islamic way of thinking and we present in defiance with challenging data from The Quran,so everybody is invited to listen the whole lecture with care..
Thanks
th-cam.com/video/Go0UCsF7c_U/w-d-xo.html
Late Mr. Jinnah is responsible for partition. Unfortunately he forced Urdu in East Pakistan , another he didn’t created second line in governance.
حیرت ہہے کہ دو قومی نظریے کی بنیاد پر بننے والے ملک میں اتنی زیادہ زیادہ قومیت موجود ہیں ۔ اللّٰہ تعالیٰ پاکستانی قوم کو شکر گزار قوم بنادیں ۔ آمین ۔
I have read this very well and convincingly written book! Indian and Pakistani readers will enjoy reading it!
Two learned men in conversation together. Great video. Would love to see them having conversations with learned people from our side too.
These 2 men don't belong to.one.country, they belong to spirit of south asia
It is interesting history - A *Cabinet Mission came to India in 1946 in order to discuss the transfer of power from the British government to the Indian political leadership, with the aim of preserving India's unity* and granting its independence - it was a *joint India proposal* of Britain (although before 1947, India was already divided into multiple independent princely states as each state had its own currency, military and independent governmental system) joint India proposal that was offered when Nehru on behalf of Gandhi Jee rejected the prime offer proposed to Indian leadership. *That Mr. Jinnah accepted with exception to ensure minority rights in specific state* As Nehru jee wanted to eat the whole pie, Cabinet Mission prime offer was rejected along with the lame excuses. -- Question is who refused that prime offer of Joint India initially that Britain offered ??
-- Picture is very much clear now
1- Pakistan still part of Communist China and ready to give access to them so called "warm water" theory
2- The fact is till 1947 India was not "Joint India" in true sense -- already divided into multiple independent princely states -- it was not one nation before 1947
3- btw, *now socialist or leftist India is in the hands of Capitalist, not Socialist - Ready to fight on behalf of Capitalist and Imperialist US and UK against the interest of Communist Russia and Communist China*
Good to see rational academic discussion. I am also a keen reader. According to my findings the beneficiary of a split India was in fact the West. Both Jinnah and Gandhi realized it very well. Mahatma Gandhi was assassinated just after his announcement of long march from Rajasthan to Karachi. I think his intention was to make a United State of India, just as per pattern of today's EU. Sooner or later India, Pakistan and Bangladesh will realize that it is in the benefit of their people to have a common currency, join forces, and one foreign policy. Now the West also needs these countries united so that their war with China/Russia can be held back in Asia. Time seems not far.
i have seen 1000s of masjid have been destroyed latest one peshawar by bomb blast in pakistan by ttp (monster created by pakistan army to disturb peace in india ) can u give me example in which masjid have been destroyed by bomb blast in india
inflation in india 6% inflation in Pakistan 40% whose is more happier Pakistani
india export 900 billion dollar Pakistan export 30 billion india forex $600 dollar Pakistan forex $3 billion 8 lakh muslim pakistanl left Pakistan fortress of islam 2 lakh(10000 Indian muslim) india left india in 2022 india population 140 crore Pakistan population 22 crore now u decide who is more happier Pakistani musalman or Indian muslaman
It's appalling that an academic like Dr Hoodbhoy did not bother looking for references in Ayesha Jalal's book and accepted it on face value. This happens when you view history with pre-conceived notions
Do you think this is 6??
Just rotate ur phone its 9..
History that u been thought may be wrong u must explore the things.
By the way exactly this history which they are discussing we in india study in our study books.
@Saqib, Dr. ishtiyaq has referenced Dr. Ayesha Jalal’s book; and I am sure Dr. saheb has read that too. pls ref from 4:00
Asslamualikum.,
Great personalities, great talks,great truths.....
Dr ishtiaq is very genuine and goes into all depths to bring out the facts..nd disclose them..
Some people quote that one speech by Jinnah to imply that Jinaah was secular but it just does not make any sense.
The speech given by Jinnah on August 14th does not make any sense at all because he was the one who said that Muslims have nothing in common with non-Muslims, and therefore they need their separate homeland just for the Muslims. When he gave the speech, 99% of Hindus and Sikhs of West Pakistan had already migrated to India or were in the process of migrating to India. So who is he addressing in his speech? This is just like after killing or forcing the migration of Jews out of Germany, Hitler gave a speech that Jews are now free to worship their god and be equal in the eyes of the state.
Highly intellectual discussion. Slightly scathing to common sensibilities.
Two of the great intellectuals of Pakistan 👍
A response to Peevez Houdbhoy for his Anti -Quranic and Anti True Islamic way of thinking and we present in defiance with challenging data from The Quran,so everybody is invited to listen the whole lecture with care..
Thanks
th-cam.com/video/Go0UCsF7c_U/w-d-xo.html
Dr sb I can see a lot of work done by you to conclude this kind of a thesis … we truely appreciate your work and ideology sir Thanks for illustrating the facts and they are enough to appreciate… we love history and learning it thru you is really appreciated
ڈاکٹر اشتیاق صاحب کو محبت سے کتاب لکھنے پر بہت بہت مبارکباد قبول ہو۔ 😍
Great work by doctor Ishtiaq Ahmed sb.
Biased Historian
@@Hamza-fr1gj when did you finish the book?
Amir abbasi sahib angrezoun nay Pakistan ko apnay maqasad kay liay istamal kerna tha is liay banaya tha Pakistan mein 4 crore log dewaroun say ser takra ker rotay huvay mer gay pagal ho gay thay aur hindustan kee tareekh aisi nahi hey jis tarah Pakistan mein pri jati hey tareekh ko masakh kia hey hindustan mein hindu sikh muslim sub united thay zat system tha religion nahi
Qaid e azam wants pakistan because it was a need of this region of muslims
Accha to pakistan banake kya kar liya tumne , agar islamic state hi solution tha prob ka to bangladesh kyu bana ye batao
Free Balochistan from Punjabi converts.
@@mehranbaloch2173 love from india to balochis
Prof Hoodboy nation state has been made by enlighten educated citizens with true criticism and truthful thoughts. Your recognition is due to foreign study where you have enjoyed full freedom which is not in all Asian countries.
Thank you ...carry-on good work
Professor, Iam a great admirer of your talks
I heard many videos of this senior historian. He is a great researcher and no one from Napak Nalayak country can challenge him on facts. Very detailed researches person
“PAKISTAN OWES ITS EXISTENCE TO AN AHMADI DIVINE”
Few know this fact that Mr M. A. Jinnah ( a Shia ) had quit the Indian political scene out of frustration and left Indian politics. After attending the second Round Table Conference in 1932, he retreated to London, where he established a remarkable legal practice. It was a great loss to Muslims in India. It provided immense relief to Indian Congress as their main adversary left the field. The movement to divide India was almost dead.
Mr Jinnah was persuaded back to India by no other person than Hadhrat Mirza Bashir-Ud-Din Mahmud Ahmad, the Head of the Ahmadiyya Movement. This divine figure surveyed the Indian political horizon and found no honest and outstanding Muslim figure to lead the Indian Muslims to divide India. Hadhrat Sahib asked the then Ahmadiyya Missionary in London Mr Abdur Raheem Dard to get in touch with Mr M. A. Jinnah who had initially turned down all overtures. It took Mr Dard three hours of face-to-face talk to successfully persuade him to return to India.
Mr Jinnah was very reluctant, but he eventually changed his mind.
The Sunday Times London (April 9, 1933) carried a report of a reception that was held by the Imam of London Mosque, Mr Dard, where Mr Jinnah frankly acknowledged the fact that:
“The eloquent persuasion of Imam left me no way to escape”
The above statement was taken from the Ahmadis website, “ thepersecution.org”. it is the proof of their guilt. It proves that it was Ahmadis’ hatred towards non-Muslims that divided India and created Pakistan. No wonder they are being persecuted there. They created this monster.
“YOU WILL REAP TOMORROW WHAT YOU SOW TODAY”.
“Religion is the biggest vacuum cleaner ever sold to the people by the people to rip-off people”.
Zulfiqar Tareen, a friend of all, the enemy of none.
Please check out how religion destroyed my aunt's life in my Facebook profile at facebook.com/zulfitareen1
Dr. Pravez saab contrary to popular view of Pakistanis that Pak got independence on Aug 14 is Incorrect. According to " Indian independence Act 1947" winch got royal accent in April 1947, British transferd power to India at midnight 12.00 am Aug 15. Mr Jinnah was appointed Governor General of Pakistan on Aug 14 to take effect on Aug 15. Lord Mountbatten was the Governor General of " United India" on Aug 14 until 11.59.59 midnight. You can read the Act online
Jinnah, Nehru, Ghandi and Patel were all educated as lawyers. None had administrative or governance experience. They all miserably failed in maintaining peace during partition.
Maintaining peace was the duty of britishers who governed us.
Can't believe Dr Hoodbhoy repeatedly referred to the August 11 speech of Mr. Jinnah as the August 14th speech. But even more frustrating was the fact that not a single question posed by Dr. Hoodbhoy was answered adequately by Dr. Ishtiaque due to Dr. Hoodbhoy' s repeated interventions and repetitive summation of points already made . This amounts to poor interviewing techniques. The host should provide a brief context and pose the question, allowing the guest to answer with gentle prompts to keep the focus on the question. This never happened and there seemed to be greater emphasis on gettimg the Urdu purified of all non-urdu expression. This is not necessary in the 21st century. After all, the use of the word ""secular" did eventually creep up, so why insist on laboring on the purity of a spoken language which evolved as an amalgam of several other languages? The interview left one unsatisfied and wondering whether it is enough to be an academic when one broadcasts... After all, if the point is to get the point across, that point was lost in the process of scoring pointless points
well it was slip of tongue he clear said three days before making of pakistan.
read the book and stop running your mouth
I am surprised that people say that "everybody in India was happy on 15th Aug" - well, of course we were happy. After all, we had collectively freed ourselves from the yoke of 250 years of British colonialism. Not even during the Delhi Sultanate had one witnessed such "Us vs Them" mentality that post 1857 Great Britain showed.
Of course, we were happy that after nearly 60-70-80 years of struggle, we were breathing free.
Of course, we were relieved that now the destiny of Indians would be in hands of Indians.
Of course, we were happy that after so much of bloodbath, the stubborn Muslim League mentality-keeping people were out of our system. Good riddance!!!! Though many still got left behind, much to our bad luck!
Of course there was enthusiasm in the hearts and minds of my dad's generation (my dad was 10 years old in 1947) and they believed that "we would build our own sone ka bharat varsha".
And let there be no confusion - we were hurt beyond measure that such an important part of our collective (more than 5000 years) of history - Taxashila, Peshawar (Purushapura), Harappa, Mohenjo Daro, Swat region (reportedly the birthplace of Sanskrit grammarian Panini) got left behind.
Thanks for both Professors for this informative discussion.
Namaste good sb love your effort to re educate Pakistanis with a pragmatic approach
@@theobserver7639 please add "wrong" in between 'the' and 'observer' ,the name of your youtube channel
@@theobserver7639 Yes Ayaz Sadiq also confirmed that Pakistanis speak truth.
" Gen. Bajwa ke Mathe pe pasina tha, Tange kaamp rahi thi."
Yes Sadiq Ayaz also spoke the absolute truth. Gen. Bajwa was sweating, his legs were shaking with fear of India.
Our yeh Chini TV per hai. Dekho our sharm Karo.
th-cam.com/video/GMylo5lljlo/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/96dpMXMn0Ug/w-d-xo.html
@@theobserver7639 Ayaz Sadiq spoke truth th-cam.com/video/96dpMXMn0Ug/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/GMylo5lljlo/w-d-xo.html , th-cam.com/video/ypDvOTeZy08/w-d-xo.html
@@theobserver7639 Kyon apne aap ko jalil kar leto ho? Apne jahil honeka saboot social media pe deke?
You mean propaganda?
Why does Pervez Hoodbhoy Look like Shami Kapoor?... You are all of Indian origin!!! lol
He's Gujarati
@@yoyo1khan Thats the Point Bro We are the same!!! Ask an Englishman?...
@@janiskhan1822 yeah but still muslims of the subcontinent hate hindus , our ancestors were same , still people refuse to accept this truth.
Shami kapoor family from PESHWAR Pakistan...
I too look like Bobby Deol and I'm a Punjabi Jutt too.
Informative..
Jinnah came back from England with the agenda to divide this part of the world.
I don't know but it was good decision. I don't want to imagine situation of united India.
Same here☺️☺️, even we dont want followers of Islam, pr gandhi ji ki wajah se yaha bahut se muslim reh gye hai, aur to aur lakho muslim to pakistan gye aur phr wapas aa gye india, bas inko le jao, apne chutiya ummah me
@@pranavdwivedi7678 🚽🚽🚽🚽🇮🇳
मेरी नज़र में जो इज्ज़त डॉक्टर हुडभोय की है वही इज्ज़त डॉक्टर इम्तियाज़ अहमद की है। दोनों ही अपने अपने क्षेत्रों के माहिर है।
We don't understand Nagri Urdu.
Translitration- I respect and admire both Dr Hoodbhoy and Dr Ishtiaq Ahmed.
Ji sir is kitab ka Hindi ya urdu tarjuma mil
sakta hai kya, agar hua hai to kitab kahan se
mileygi ? Plz inform kareyn. Thanks.
Nice discussion. Yea that's true that Mr. Jinna had great care for Muslims but the idea that hindu and muslim can not live together was flawed and terrible just bcz they r from different religious identify they have been together for centuries. Gandhi was also upset and he was in calcutta and riots there stopped bcz of his presence. He coudnt be at Punjab bcz he was not a quantum particle.
Sir, Actually that was sheer problem of minority rights of Muslims in independent India which unfortunately couldn't be solved.
I m from India a big fan of Dr. Hoodbhoy. I m eager to read this book.
Gya Prasad.
Great respect for you Sir. Our views may differ, because we are made different. Very few of your class are left in Pakistan. When you speak it is difficult to concentrate on other things.
A response to Peevez Houdbhoy for his Anti -Quranic and Anti True Islamic way of thinking and we present in defiance with challenging data from The Quran,so everybody is invited to listen the whole lecture with care..
Thanks
th-cam.com/video/Go0UCsF7c_U/w-d-xo.html
Sir, partition has left people killed and families divided on both sides. A nation borne hatred shall be consumed by hatred.
Wow this book looks interesting, is it available online?
Great work