Agreed, but worth a try if you do not know for sure. If you talk to someone in a measured way and they lose their shtt, now you know. So my new mantra and y’all know it… Point your feet in the opposite direction of the problem and ambulate.
Very true. It took me 20 years (and a divorce) to understand this. If you treat your partner like a regular person who can engage in regular communications, you set yourself up for a forest full of bear traps.
@MichaelBroder same here (plus SIX children - now grown). That divorce saved...my...LIFE! And spoiler alert: no, my ex-husband hasn't "evolved" at all. He has a new, very young supply now (poor girl, wish I could warn her), and seems to only be WORSE. THESE PEOPLE DON'T CHANGE! RUN AND NEVER LOOK BACK! 👌🏾
I was given a lot of opportunities because of my natural ability to effectively communicate. Now, I overthink everything. Nothing comes out right. I second guess my own thoughts, opinions, feelings, and perceptions. I used to be able to easily navigate the most challenging conversations. Now I struggle with the basics and just shut down. When you spend a significant amount of time with a narcissist, normal conversations feel like diffusing a bomb. You start to adapt to absolute chaos and confusion. These relationships wreck you in so many ways.
Exactly. I overthink everything I do or say. The other day I heard about a woman who had a premie and I know she has to drive back and forth to pittsburgh everyday. I do not know her, I heard about her through my vet tech. I decided to buy her a gift card for gas. That was my spontaneous thought. I did it but starting thinking things like are you just doing this to show off etc. Who do you think you are etc. It was a spontaneous thought, I followed through but the mental gymnastics will continue for days.
Me too , i second ( third , fifth) guess may be anything and everything - so much so that it causes me stress - n thus i have stopped communicating to so many people , i don't want to solve "riddles" now - it tires me , I don't want to talk to anyone who is not straight forward even my own mum , i sometimes just chose to shutdown - i would rather prefer to be alone . And this is also causing so much hindrance in my career growth - I am a consultant , I am paid to talk but I have lost confidence in public speaking /presentations (which are my bread n butter) I need to work on these
Me too. After I escaped the abusive narc ex, I made a decision that after I'd been to hell and back already, I wasn't going to put up with narc BS from anyone anymore. Life is better now. 😊
Ive come to understand that the narc is committed to misunderstanding. They’re very clear on communicating what they want, but will mishear, misunderstand, or not hear you at all. Ive learned to do as much by myself as much as possible. This video is spot on!!! thx u Doc!❤❤❤
This is so very true. Sometimes when I think back and try to recall how my ex responded to something I said, I can’t remember. Now I realize that’s because he probably did not say anything. He may have just given me that blank stare of his that meant “we’re done here.” Or he would cry and I would instantly cave.
They purposely twist your words because they thrive on drama, chaos, and the pain of other people. Everything is used against you - your personal information, opinions, any reactions or emotions. It's just used for their gossip, drama, lies.
Communication with a narcissist is similar to being cross-examined in a lawsuit. Shut up first. Shut up, second. Don’t over-answer the question. Volunteer nothing. Never state anything definitive. GREY ROCK here.
Yes, being around narcissistic parents trained me to overexplain, justify, and defend everything. Personal information (and opinions/reactions/emotions) gets used against you, so I simply stopped sharing information about myself. This personality style wastes so much of your time and energy.
@@yellowdayz1800and that's the really hard part to grasp and try to understand - that they are doing it intentionally. It's planned. It's calculated. It's deliberate.
Intentionally refusing to understand is unloving. So many of us got trapped in unloving marriages when our spouse lied as they vowed to love us and be totally committed to us. We had a very small wedding which was being both recorded and photographed throughout. I was, of course, looking intently into my husband's face as he began to recite his vows. Suddenly, he spoke an unscripted, obviously cheesy-fake sentence with a very strange look on his face, a weird "smile" which I immediately remembered from the first time I noticed he was looking at me from across a room. So this was only the second time I'd seen this look on his face. Once our relationship started to destabilize, I saw it "turn up" more often, when he was being a smartass and mocking me. You all know what it was-- the "smirk." One day I sneaked my camera into my hand and attempted to take a picture of that face while he was ragging on me for nothing but his own amusement. I found out quickly that HE KNEW EXACTLY what he was doing, because in the one second it took for him to see my phone and for me to snap the pic, he managed to straighten his face out! He did NOT want me to have that photo. However, anyone can see from that photo that he was purposefully making a strange face at me, even if the smirk was being straightened out. I didn't know what narcissism was, but I most certainly knew that something evil was lurking within him. When I started looking & listening to him for the purpose of noticing his intentions, I was shocked to find so much 'evidence' of no love or empathy in his heart. I felt my sail luff within, and I knew I was steering a wrong course and my boat was flailing in the water, headed for disaster.😢 But we were in a big boat with a tall sail, the kind that requires at least 2 people to handle it...😢😪
@@truthseeker-mk4rtThank you for that. I was just about to ask HOW and WHERE we can relearn, to improve our communication skills, because I now see that I have a problem. I'd been really sick just before our break-up, and have spent the last six months recovering. The illness was neurotoxic, affecting my motor skills and my brain's abilities, so I didn't realize until today that part of what I've been experiencing is due to the horrible ways I learned to interact or not interact, as the case may be, with my narcissist ex-husband.
I needed to hear this. After 30 years married to a narcissist, I have terrible anxiety when talking to others. I avoid it as much as possible. Now I have a better understanding of why I have become like this.
Next month 38 years for me and my health has been compromised the last 15 years. I cannot drive since I turned 55, I’m fixing to turn 57 next month 4 days before our 38 th anniversary. I’m isolated scared and don’t know what to do still!! Last weekend was epic and exhausting but my reactional abuse still occurs and that is another ❤thing all on me I know. makes things worse. I can’t leave. He can’t no matter what because of other reasons. Any advice. I don’t have many resources. Just got on facebook last month! So I’m way behind. Thanks to dr R I have listened to her a few years she is the main validation I can get. I thank you for the comment because I know someone understands ❤
@@lainaentzminger9903keep listening and learning with Dr.Ramani. It will make so much sense to you. The FOG. (fear, obligation, guilt) will begin to dissipate. The way ahead will be clearer.
if boundaries don’t work with the narcissist... just slip out the back, jack. make a new plan, stan. you don’t need to be coy, roy. just get yourself free. hop on the bus, gus. you don’t need to discuss much. just drop off the key, lee, and get yourself FREE. cheers from southern ontario, canada 🍁
I have been victim of narcissistic abuse from my family, exes and friends and I came to a point where I thought I was in psychosis and thought I was the one with a personality disorder and that I was the one twisting the narrative, can you imagine?! Then, I found a psy that saved my life and she showed me that I was communicating very well, politely, expressed my needs correctly, etc... That those people are just committed to not understand you. I could see clearly what was going on around me, she gave me confidence in my own judgement that's only then that I could finally get out of that mind fucked psychological control. I almost killed myself because of them, there is no words to express my gratitude towards my psy and my anger towards those i thought was my family and friends. We live in a crazy world! Protect yourself at ALL cost!
I completely resonate with this. I even typed out a fight I had word for word, read it to my therapist and at the end she said, "It's him, not you." I was so relieved! I tell myself that all the time now, "It's them, not me," "It's them, not me," "It's them, not me."
@@websurfer5772Right? I used to over explain my side of things and I tried to be as fair as I could possibly be even more fair to the narcissist when I was explaining them to other people. When you're trying to explain this to other people you feel like they're not going to really believe you because what you're telling them is really unbelievable.
@@sharicoburn5475 exactly and sometimes, since our parents are narcissistic, we also choose narcissistic friends. We can have the same friends for 20-30 years and wake up one morning and realized we feel this way because our entourage kept us in a unhealthy state of mind. The only thing we know is abuse, how can we tell it's not normal? We can't... And yes, it's unbelievable for therapists, others friends (lots of enablers), I found my peace since I isolated myself, I can create art again, I found myself a little bit. Sometimes it hurts so much that the only way to survive is by being alone until you know your worth. Don't lose your energy to explain yourself, they are committed to not understand, just leave and never look back. It hurts at first but then, you realize things you couldn't see without leaving. The most important person in your life is YOU. Your sanity, your freedom, your happiness is the only thing that should matter, every day!
One thing I found helpful was getting out of the house and being among people. A free walking tour or an outdoor mall. I am so used to being with a narcissist 24/7 that I knew I’d have to start slow. Plus, I’m an introvert. Socializing is a challenge anytime. 😂 Listening to you has been life saving. I’m much stronger now. ❤
If you are allowed to leave. They would call you ten times while you are out:"why is this taking too long...when will you be back..." and the tone gets worse with minutes. I watched a guy do this to his wife.
wow we are kinda similar in this situation! im with a Narc 24/7 on work & live , & im an introvert so i don’t go out & socialize at all. when we are not working together we are on the phone 7-8 hrs straight!!!!!
I cried through this whole video. You just described my entire existence after 20 years of this. The constant arguing semantics, just never quite able to understand what I’m saying, it’s the way I said it or words he wouldn’t use, or if it should matter or what a certain word I said means. The constant, ever-moving bar for what we should or could be doing instead of whatever I needed to discuss. I could go on and on. The result is that I’m afraid to have a conversation with anyone because he’s taught me that reaching out has consequences, it means feeling alone, misunderstood and embarrassed. This video was the moment something clicked for me. Thank you.
So true 😔 I walk on eggshells around the narc husband, afraid to discuss anything as he is volatile and always causes an argument, even over petty stuff. He will glaslight, deflect, manipulate - and on top of that, he will then give me the silent treatment, most of those have been months at a time! They deliberately make out they don’t understand what you’re saying. They are never the problem. No wonder there’s never a resolution, acknowledgement or apology. Infact, the arguments are not even about what the issue was in the first place. He gets personal just to get a reaction so the focus is taken away from his behaviour. I’ve wasted nearly 30 years thinking one day a miracle will happen and he will realise the damage he has done to our family/marriage, but nope, because narcs don’t want to change, they know what they’re doing, it’s a choice they make. I have GAD and social anxiety as well as other anxiety disorders, and I hesitate talking to people, even family, as I’m afraid of saying the wrong thing. I get my words mixed up sometimes like my brain is tied in knots. Narcs confuse us. They drain us. We will look back and realise what a total darn waste of our life spent with these evil beings 😔
@@nickijames5122 I’ve been thinking about this all day and can relate to everything you said. It definitely feels like precious years wasted, but I have more years to live and don’t have to waste the rest of them! I keep reading “they never change” and I finally understand what that means. Wishing only the best for you. No one deserves to feel this way.
I had to stop halfway through because of crying. Blows my mind how someone can act this way and not see it at all. Second marriage, almost 13 years, down the drain. Even celebrated my 50th birthday last week alone. He still hasn’t even acknowledged it. Ruined our very first (and second) anniversary too. I moved out for 10 days on our first anniversary. Should have stayed gone! He’s a joy vampire. I’m in limbo at the moment because the economy sucks, but I will be leaving hopefully within the next month. Can’t wait to escape.
After a lifetime of psychological and emotional abuse, this message is resonating _loudly_ for me. I have added this video to a playlist so I can watch it again as I am currently working on healing my many wounds and reprogramming my mind. Thank you, Dr. Ramani, for your work.
I have playlist of narcissism videos. There is one Dr. Ramani video in particular I find myself returning to when I feel vulnerable. Sometimes I have to replay it several times before I get my equilibrium back, but it always works.
This is why being with a narcissist is a precious waste of time. Not only is it difficult to gain good communication skills in a narc relationship, but if this is a workplace narc or workplace narc system, you will not gain knowledge that is critical to furthering your career. This is the same for students in school around bullying students and teachers.
OMG the hyperverbalism since my split from my ex has been horrifying! It’s finally calming down as my nervous system heals. All these post-traumatic symptoms are SO SCARY. Especially when you’re at an age where you think every verbal or cognitive slip is the beginning of senile dementia LOL!!!
There is no point in being logical with a narcissist- and he was always telling me I didn’t listen and he would spend the majority of the time talking word salad/ I got very good at blocking things out as well, memories of things he said to me or the way he treated me.
I’ve learned this years ago with my ex. It’s like they stare off into another world while you’re talking. Or they just twist every word I’m saying and turn it on me
@@PoyTroythe worst part is they actually think they’re right, it’s not like they are arguing because they don’t want to admit the are wrong, they just can’t imagine that could be wrong.
😅❤ Me, reading the title, being raised by a narcissist: Which communication skills?😂😂😂 I learned communication at 27 years old when I started therapy. No joke. Changed my life extremely
Yep. I've even found that if my husband and I start fighting, I go in the other room and type him an email about it, read it and edit it before sending it, and it goes much better when we talk to each other that way. Luckily, we're both into typing all day anyway though. Not everyone has that option, I just realized.
Many first-generation immigrant parents save their frustrations for their children, while being obsequious to the society they’re new to. My father did this (and had vulnerable narcissistic traits). and my siblings internalized both.
I would love to see at least eighteen more videos about this particularly corner of narcissistic recovery! The damage that is done to the laws of communication by narcissism reverberates throughout society.
One of the things I have noticed as a pattern with both narcs and sociopaths I have known is that you CANNOT TRUST their perspective on anything because they maintain their own narrative-they tell themselves and practice it on others, and often adapt it. But the narrative always rationalizes things or presents things in a way that they are never the bad guy and that the victim actually deserved to be treated that way. Or, they will reframe facts/situations to project blame onto the victim. Not only is it a big mistake to trust their perception, you constantly have to detect gaslighting, and you absolutely must never ever assume they have feelings like empathy or compassion. Counting on them to understand how you feel or to process experiences like a normal person would is a big don’t.
The weird part is when they would just make shit up during an argument, just rewriting history. thats when i just shut up,listen in awe, and am totally validated in my decision to get the hell on
I always tried to explain to my own family that I would always be calm and polite when trying to talk to the narcissist husband, and how I’d use the right words but because he is narcissistic there was never going to be a time that he would listen and understand or change his behaviour. They always thought I must have said something wrong or I’d said it in a way that annoyed him. Neither were true. Communicating with a narc is like taking a horse to water and making it drink. It just doesn’t work. Easy to blame the victim 😢
You’re on point. I’m an etiquette and protocol coach and consider myself a good communicator, yet my experience with my narcissist ex shattered my confidence in my skills for a while. Fortunately, I have great friends who kept reminding me of my abilities and helped me get back to my real self as narcissists they do diminish you over time. Thank you for this video, always helpful 🙏❤️
Narcissistic folks are attracted to good communicators because they’re unable to communicate within their own heads and sometimes outwards too. So they rely on significant others in their sphere to reframe their mistakes in communication. Yet, they never see that and often will be angered when others try to help them finish a sentence they can’t get out or try to interpret things which were misspoken
One of my biggest struggles is communication, now I see why! However I’m willing to change, because it’s caused me problems with constant “um” pauses, stutters,& not coordinating words well due to the authoritarian tendencies from my narcissistic mother.
SAME I RELATEVTO YOU once iy was so bad that I almost lost my ability to present coherent thoughts statements. I've always had bad throat/asthma problems duevto not able yo express clearly it sucks
My narc mother to me: "You always say that communication is important for a healthy relationship, so now I'm communicating you that you need _______, I'm communicating that you must ________, and I'm communicating that you should _______. " 😂
😅 So true! My brother and sister in law did the same thing. "We want to work things out and move forward in a healthy way. That being said, you can't make decisions for you and your family without our approval." 😅😅😅
For the whole last year of our relationship I refused to talk to my narcissist at all except via text only. It was literally the only way to stay sane and have an unimpeachable record of what was said. The lengths one must go to just to be able to function as a human being at the most basic level with these demons is ridiculous!
So true. Ongoing communication with manipulative people who gaslight or are consistently passive-aggressive and/or domineering is a total waste of energy. Especially when they try and trap you by 'playing nice' or gotcha behavior, unless circumstances require diplomacy to avoid/minimize further problems.
Can relate. I wouldn’t call myself as naturally shy but due to narcissistic abuse for years, I ended up over talking and also being so withdrawn that it’s hard to balance. I overanalyse everything too and wish I could get support. So difficult. Slowly getting there but it’s taking time.
Oh gosh! That is so true! We overanalyze everything after that... the version that MAY be true, the version that CAN be, the lie we know exists, and the intuition telling us something else... They always use a half-truth, but which part is the truth? That you'll never know, and if you do, it's worse than you can imagine. I can't reverse that now. I overanalyze everything, even 12 years later... I really have trust issues, and I don't think I can get over it.
Over the past four years since I discovered Doctor Ramani, I've stopped apologizing, overexplaining, sharing too much, and acting goofy. I've become more confident, been watching what I say and keeping a lot more to myself, getting straight to the point concisely, and carrying myself with dignity. I'm not acting egotistic. I still show kindness and humor. But I've just shed all the dysfunctional coping mechanisms and ways I was trained to act that have interfered with my capacity for mature relationships while learning how to act healthy, and it's been attracting healthier people who take me seriously and respect me like I've never experienced before.
This episode hits me hard 😢 Thank you so much for sharing and give education about narcissism. Age 46, raised by covert narcissistic parents. Found out a couple of years ago what it really means to be raised in such a toxic situation. Big hug to all survivors ❤
Great content! I talk to clients all day long, we communicate, and its mutual respect. It is only when I arrive home that the circus begins, and I have to basically go grey rock. I feel sometimes I live two different lives. Fortunately, I spend more time at work than at home!
Clear and direct communication just does not work with narcs. It seems to either frighten them _(as there's nowhere to hide)_ or it seems to come off threatening to them.
Because they are NEVER wrong, in their own mind. If they acknowledged straightforward communication, they would have to take responsibility for their own words/behavior. They only pretend to 'not get it'. 🤷♀️
Thank you for this information.. I am slowly coming to realise that I've grown up with narcissistic people around me and that I've never known how to properly communicate or ask for what I want.. The only person I was able to do that with was my dad, and he passed on 14 years ago now... Now I'm with someone who does have healthy communication and it hurts me that I can't even express how I feel in the moment without fighting the urge within myself just to reply with 'I'm fine', 'it is what it is', 'I'm over it' I've always wondered why I don't know how to communicate like the 30 year old woman I am and so many others can do it so much better than me. Lol
After 25 yrs with a malignant narc, I'm afraid to get into a healthy relationship because I don't know how to communicate anymore. I just shut down a few years into the marriage, went Grey Rock. I couldn't take the constant fighting and I was beginning to loose my sanity. Meal times were spent in silence, as were car rides. Sex was awful. We never went out alone because we had nothing to say to each other. We mainly texted, brief msgs
Communication with a narcissist is always one-sided. Only their opinions matter while you have to mute yourself. Very agonizing and infuriating. When is it ever not with a narcissist?
That’s because one is only an object with a narcissist-not a person. They only see themselves in the mirror and others don’t really exist to them. This is the pathology of narcissus.
@@sarahwilhelms2015 It's a monologue instead of a dialogue with them. We don't matter enough to them for them to actually listen. They already have the script written, and anything we say ruins their script. 💯
There's a famous speaker who said that the quality of your relationships is based on the quality of your communication. The speaker did not say "good quality," mind you.
I have always thought of myself as socially ackward. I often trip over words and become anxious when speaking to people I know but are not good friends. This makes sense now, thank you Dr Ramani
This is so true. My brother came to visit me and it was so nice talking to someone who was open, healthy and acknowledged my feelings. It reminded me that I dont always have to tip toe in conversations or second guess myself.
My nEx would complain that I didn't talk with him, because I'd have long conversations with my brother when he came by. He didn't have the self awareness to realise that he was the problem. He never even pretended to listen when I talked 😢
Thank you Dr Ramini. As usual when I listen to your videos I learn more about narcissism, but also about myself and others who have been hurt by narcissists. It explains a lot about human behavior and makes me more understanding about those close to me. ❤
Had a job interview today.. after three years. Messed it up. Over spoke, over explained like I was trying to prove I'm not doing anything wrong.. over friendly, anxious like they were interrogating me. This has been a pattern for a long time.. it came up again. Now I don't even know what to say anymore. Whatever I say, even at home, I'm held accountable, corrected all the time, told I shouldn't be thinking like this or that. I'm constantly apologizing. Covering up, trying to go around instead of being direct. And it seems like I'm manipulating.. but I'm not, I just you know.. I don't know... and even when I'm talking I go round and round.. when I write I'm saying the same thing in different words.. like.. its difficult. I don't think this will ever get resolved. Better to stay alone. World is harsh.
Play around with Chat GPT. Type answers to interview questions then ask it to change tense ie. Friendly, Confident, or 8th, 12th grade level, college level etc. etc. Then memorize. Also Denis Sesal hr expert videos. Hope this Helps! PRAISE JESUS ❤
Play around with Chat GPT. Type answers to interview questions then ask it to change tense ie. Friendly, Confident, or 8th, 12th grade level, college level etc. etc. Then memorize. Also Denis Sesal hr expert videos. Hope this Helps! ❤ PRAISE JESUS
I still have this struggle when trying to communicate with non-narcissistic people. I tend to over-read the subtext or worry about hidden meanings when people are being open because I was so used to things having a hidden meaning. For example, when my husband would say, "Why don't you take a break from cooking and we'll get take out this week.", I would hear "Your usefulness as a cook is not needed. You are not needed." and I would cook extra food to prove I was needed. I was only able to stop this after I talked with my husband about how I felt when he said this. The funny thing is that with several things like this, talking about them with someone caring seems to greatly reduce their hold on me - as if they were vampires who die in sunlight.
I, too, struggle to take anything at face value. My radar is constantly on. I over analyze and try to decipher the true meaning of what a person is saying. I'm much more guarded now
I needed This video at this exact moment. My mom & dad are both high on the 😅emotionally immature spectrum, I think they are narcissists. Were all afraid to talk to my dad due to his rage. With my mother she takes jabs, plays victim, and does and says some of the weirdest almost scary things while staring at you directly in your eyes. I’ve had to shutdown my personality to survive them. Now they are wondering why I’m so quiet.
This is dead accurate. What are the right resources for invincible children who are more in middle age and literally never, ever learned communication? Never, ever? How does an adult learn to communicate from scratch, for the first time? Please post more videos on healthy communication, it could save many relationships. Thank you for all you do-you are the heart parents were never had and you have saved many lives.
You need to find the new job and get hired (and give a notice period to both companies) before you leave your existing job. It’s the only way it works I’ve found, at 23 years old without losing money. Because I too used to just quit toxic jobs when I was younger with no backup plan, then get stuck with being unemployed and having to claim benefits. It was a very tumultuous time. I hope this helps. But our experiences do make us stronger. I wish you all the best 😇😇
This is so true. I started to feel scared to even meet people at interviews, bcoz it generated emotions of being interrogated, and cornered, and I dreaded them.
Thank you! I recently spent a week with the people I grew up with and experienced serious criticism and judgement for not being who they have always treated me as. I’m so grateful for the work I’ve done with multiple therapies and therapists and content creators like you ❤. It has helped me to trust my intuition and not engage when they attempted to escalate and get an emotional response. I got the hell out of there before I slipped back into unhealthy patterns.
When they talk instead of me like I wasn't able to talk.Then they tell "we tell instead of who cannot talk".But I can,then why they talk instead of me?Only ego,they want to rule everything and displacing others.
Honestly Dr.Ramani I look for your guidance daily Trust no one is my mantra. I'm too old andvtoo eise hope for any kind of relationship...never mind a abusive one .communication is key but everyone in it for themselves in life. I had a walks to the balls kind of boss. He loved attention.....I haven't seen people in years
I have spent the last five years in almost complete isolation. The pandemic was the perfect excuse for how I was already living. I’m the scapegoat of a large family cult, number 7 of 9. Girls and women were to be seen and heard. We were told to get over it even as we were being abused in real time. Forgive and forget and shut up about it. I often find myself “stuck” when I have to communicate. Or, on the other spectrum, I over communicate to the point of embarrassing babble. The CPTSD I suffer from has kept me in limbo. For 18 years I have moved from country to country non stop (except during the pandemic where I found myself in South America). If I have to have communication with the family cult I shut down for weeks afterwards. My adult son is a journalist and a fabulous communicator and he is passionate about passing those skills on to his children. I’m in amazed at his ability to speak freely and clearly. How can he be so good at communicating with a mother like me??
Because you’re a deeply loving, caring, kind, compassionate, empathetic mother who loves her children. You remind me of my mother and we get abused by my dad too. I wish you all the best on your healing journey. 😇😇🤗🤗
I was just journaling about this exact thing a little bit ago. I watch these videos with a journal in front of me and write out the thoughts, memories, and processes that pop up. If TH-cam were a VCR, I would have broken the pause button by this point. It helps me get my thoughts more linear so I can communicate them better, rather than try to pick the needed snowflakes out of the shaken globe in the moment. The result of this is a lot of quality work in my therapy sessions.
To be honest, I am very grateful to Dr. Ramani’s channel: it saves my mom (she’s 70+) from going insane from all the abuse of her narcissistic elder sister, who recently and finally discarded her.
YOur mom should spend a good amount of time in nature to get grounded and also take her physical health regiment seriously including walking, workouts, nutrition, etc.
At least she finally got rid of her. There's still mourning and healing to go through though and I know that's not an easy road. Blessings to your mom.
OMG, I am exhausted just listening to this video; it is so spot on! It’s how I lived 6 years of my life, being drained of energy each day, on a repeating loop.
Thank you for this. I was always so social and had plenty of friends in the past. Never any issues with social anxiety. Now I constantly overthink everything I say around people and second guess myself. I feel so awkward and not myself, but don’t know how to get my old self back. This video helped me understand why I’m like this now.
This is amazing. I was an awkward kid, but learned how to be socially successful and carry good conversation. Now after seven years with my covert narc, I am almost back to square one. High blood pressure for the first time because of holding everything in. Having to pull back and just not care, because you can't pick and choose about caring- you either do or don't. Making sure you don't set off the rage. I'm in my 60s and feel like most of the progress I've made has fallen away. Confidence is shot. Trust in my own perceptions is gone. This talk is spot on
This is video so timely. Now that I am no longer in that relationship, I am struggling through basic conversations, especially with people I don't know. I didn't have this issue previously. In fact, I have become socially anxious and awkward at times.
I hear you. Me too. It has not only been shocking to me. I think it’s been surprising and hard to understand for people I have known for so many years. But I do seem to be getting better now that it is three years post split.
I’m relating to so many of these comments. It’s comforting to know that I am not alone, but it’s saddening to know the struggles that all of us have with people that we love and just want genuine love in return. Patience is a virtue but it can become a destructive vice for an empathetic person in a narcissistic relationship. 😢
My memory is great! I write things down to DOCUMENT what happens with family or at work. CYA. It's a sad reflection of society, and our own family, that documentation is necessary to protect yourself.
You are correct on the aftermath communication… not being able to convey my own feelings. Being apologetic not wanting to bother anyone with my needs…. Communication was hard after that but I am learning
Long before I ever imagined knowing about narcissistic abuse, I had been raised and then attracted to narcissists. I met an older woman back then that had this strange mannerism. She would begin to speak and then before finishing a thought, would just stop. She never finished one sentence. She seemed a sweet soul. I could only wonder what sort of control and abuse did that to her.
Yes yes everything you are saying is correct! I tend to over talk when with my close friends and they totally understand. I apologize a lot. They tell me stop apologizing, it’s ok. Something happens everyday, in regards to lack of proper communication.
Growing up with a narcissist parent...I do not have the ability to communicate well, to socialize, and now I identify as AuDHD. There's a lot of crossover with the effects of trauma, CPTSD and the like. It took a long time and deep self work to realize it was probably not ONLY the trauma of a narcissistic Mother, but that there is an underlying way that I simply do not think like non-autistic people do. Just something of interest to note.
A decade out of a lifetime of abuse, I have become mostly isolated and just pretty much stop talking to others. It’s too exhausting and emotionally devastating to deal with people anymore.
I couldn't believe it when I saw this in my natal chart. It's my destiny (North Node) to be alone all the time. I'm a Pisces sun but my North Node is in Cancer. I've been trying to come to terms with it every day. My whole chart reiterates this all the way down to the asteroids. Other people's don't, I've checked. Mine says it's rare. I'm also 80% extroverted so this feels like I've been put on Time Out. What a life.
I was instilled (as a very young child) with the knowledge of severe abuse within my parents family This knowledge shaped my worldview as a child and (understanding) act out in very difficult ways (it also left me isolated from the friends in my neighbourhood (I told my next neighbour’s kid about tiy and that parent no longer let me play with her (that was a painful and confusing moment for me but as an adult, I can understand why she did that I was simultaneously told ‘to just be myself I was never listened to and therefore never spoke up for myself My hope was to be able to get space from my family in order to process this trauma in a way that I feel safe (and also doesn’t cause family conflict because I can’t handle that - speaking about these things is NOT EASY - especially to the ones who have caused you that pain I lived in a constant state of ‘fear’ as a child although I was constantly told to just ‘relax’ and that it was normal to experience this and that I was over sensitive for expressing emotion Most of life has been about just ‘surviving’ -and making the past of things but I am tired and burnt out and I can’t go on living this way As a right this, a big of me expects no be believed or have my feelings validated ( being gaslit is a normal occurrence for me I love my family dearly and I hate to think about it will cause them hearing this but I know they’ve been through a lot so I m hoping they’ll be ready to forgive me
Honey, don't tell your family anything about this. It's not going to work out well for you. Keep listening to videos like this and only be a gray rock around them. Sorry, that's the best advice there is .
I’m so sorry. It’s time to let go of your evil family. You can still love them, but from a distance far far away, nowhere near them. Make sure you live your best life happy and independent of them. Blessings for you 😇😇
Yep. Not only I have to deal with this, I also stutter sometimes plus having an accent when speaking English since it’s not my mother tongue. What a good combo to have.
Thank you Dr. Ramani. I love this topic. You are right. Healthy communication between two individuals has to be mutual. To be acceptable on the giving side and the receiving side. Have a Happy 4th of July.
This is why I internalize feelings and can never seem to get my clear thoughts out to those I care about..😢. Also the over talking thing! I always wondered where that came from and this totally makes sense!! Now to try and work on new communication skills learned from years of living with a very covert narc!
That thinking of every word part before you say it. Rang true while I was with my ex. Even the simplest of questions could get misconstrued when talking to my ex. It was then that I learned I had F’d up, and I needed to exit lol
Omg. I cant believe I never pinned this part down! I felt so stupified! I figured maybe my intuition was off or struggling to adapt around all the games, or my brain was freezing up with all the stress! but hello, there is that self blame again! No wonder!!! My whole life people have told me I'm such a good communicator, such a good listener, so empathetic and understanding.. and I've felt like a train wreck and so clumsy, and definitely felt shady for no longer being so straightforward, confident and up front, when actually no wonder, and its alright to protect myself for a while. Im still the honest kind person I've always been but its yet another way I've felt so broken after these experiences and couldnt recognise myself as a communicating competent person. Im so glad its coming back, and I'm slowly adjusting to the observation that I can stay my comunicative listening caring genuine self, but now I have more scope and can adjust more quickly when Im around dodgy people.. I dont have to offer my open heartedness on a platter with a communication vulture. Its interesting how specific this is! So much of narcisstic abuse effects everything across the board, but this life skill cuts so deep when it's twisted by narcissistic abuse. Im so glad to recognise the pattern, and take my power back. ❤
Thank you so much for discussing this extremely important issue dr Ramani ❤😊 Real miracles can happen when we can learn to communicate openly and easily when we finally start healing from the terrible communication disconnect and disaster which narcisistic relationships forced us into. Communication does not exist with the narcissist it’s like operating on two different radio wave lengths! I am healing and learning how to communicate in a healthy manner and it feels so good 😊❤ wish we will all get there 😊❤
Before the ex left he often would often say "For someone so intelligent, you're terrible at communicating". After the ex left he called my lack of communication "selfish and childish" because I stopped talking to him. He blocked me and then unblocked me multiple times. If it wasn't for my job, where I had to be an effective communicator, I probably would have started to second guess myself and my communication skills.
This came out just in time. Trying to unlearn a lot of that while around healthier settings, and see when I feel safe for sure to talk more. Talked too much at first prior too.
I know a narc..when I confront him in the way someone else is also there. About what he does. I speak to him in words what said, I see him through, his intentions for why he talks or want something from the other person...: he seems easily not responding in words at all. Even when I say straight in his face about a lie he told me('you gave the number, last year...)I didn't gave him anything and was aware of that bcse I did not trust him. So he sais'last year'bcse he seems to believe I forget, bcse of the time. So I say to him hours later: you and I know, I did not gave you My number' he just look than forward and not responding. The quick response to not respond is for me not understandable. AT ALL!.
When the other person is communicable, communication is a magnificent tool for building closeness, intimacy, connection and safety. Assuming they are self-aware, empathic and present.
![BOWKYLION - วิงวอน (ex-change) [Official MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/cLdnZWDaO-w/mqdefault.jpg)
If you talk to a narcissist with great communication skills, openess and kind honesty, this is an instant setup for catastrophe.
Absolutely
So true!
Agreed, but worth a try if you do not know for sure. If you talk to someone in a measured way and they lose their shtt, now you know. So my new mantra and y’all know it… Point your feet in the opposite direction of the problem and ambulate.
Very true. It took me 20 years (and a divorce) to understand this. If you treat your partner like a regular person who can engage in regular communications, you set yourself up for a forest full of bear traps.
@MichaelBroder same here (plus SIX children - now grown). That divorce saved...my...LIFE! And spoiler alert: no, my ex-husband hasn't "evolved" at all. He has a new, very young supply now (poor girl, wish I could warn her), and seems to only be WORSE. THESE PEOPLE DON'T CHANGE! RUN AND NEVER LOOK BACK! 👌🏾
“Communication only works with two healthy, self aware, well regulated, non antagonistic people”
Good luck finding two people like that - anywhere!! 😆
@@michelleluisce isn't that the truth my friend
Thank you for saying this ❤️
Non antagonistic is key
I was given a lot of opportunities because of my natural ability to effectively communicate. Now, I overthink everything. Nothing comes out right. I second guess my own thoughts, opinions, feelings, and perceptions. I used to be able to easily navigate the most challenging conversations. Now I struggle with the basics and just shut down. When you spend a significant amount of time with a narcissist, normal conversations feel like diffusing a bomb. You start to adapt to absolute chaos and confusion. These relationships wreck you in so many ways.
Spot on!!
I really understand what you are saying... so I am sending big hugs for you 🫂
Exactly. I overthink everything I do or say. The other day I heard about a woman who had a premie and I know she has to drive back and forth to pittsburgh everyday. I do not know her, I heard about her through my vet tech. I decided to buy her a gift card for gas. That was my spontaneous thought. I did it but starting thinking things like are you just doing this to show off etc. Who do you think you are etc. It was a spontaneous thought, I followed through but the mental gymnastics will continue for days.
I hear you. I understand. Facing the same challenges. Live in fear of communication.
Me too , i second ( third , fifth) guess may be anything and everything - so much so that it causes me stress - n thus i have stopped communicating to so many people , i don't want to solve "riddles" now - it tires me , I don't want to talk to anyone who is not straight forward even my own mum , i sometimes just chose to shutdown - i would rather prefer to be alone . And this is also causing so much hindrance in my career growth - I am a consultant , I am paid to talk but I have lost confidence in public speaking /presentations (which are my bread n butter) I need to work on these
My experience with narcissistic abuse has conditioned me to be less patient with other people's crap.
Oh yes!...
Sometimes people deserve more patience and I just can't give it wthout suspicion 🧐
Lol so that
Bingo!
Me too. After I escaped the abusive narc ex, I made a decision that after I'd been to hell and back already, I wasn't going to put up with narc BS from anyone anymore. Life is better now. 😊
@@AnnAndNala Yeah, I kicked 'em all out of my life.
Ive come to understand that the narc is committed to misunderstanding. They’re very clear on communicating what they want, but will mishear, misunderstand, or not hear you at all. Ive learned to do as much by myself as much as possible. This video is spot on!!! thx u Doc!❤❤❤
This is so very true. Sometimes when I think back and try to recall how my ex responded to something I said, I can’t remember. Now I realize that’s because he probably did not say anything. He may have just given me that blank stare of his that meant “we’re done here.” Or he would cry and I would instantly cave.
Brilliant and spot on!
Ditto
And that's what they're hoping you'll do. It's part of the manipulation.
They purposely twist your words because they thrive on drama, chaos, and the pain of other people. Everything is used against you - your personal information, opinions, any reactions or emotions. It's just used for their gossip, drama, lies.
Communication with a narcissist is similar to being cross-examined in a lawsuit. Shut up first. Shut up, second. Don’t over-answer the question. Volunteer nothing. Never state anything definitive. GREY ROCK here.
Yes, being around narcissistic parents trained me to overexplain, justify, and defend everything. Personal information (and opinions/reactions/emotions) gets used against you, so I simply stopped sharing information about myself. This personality style wastes so much of your time and energy.
Exactly what it is, nothing about it helps you.
Yep don’t engage. It’s the only way
It’s so aggravating when you forget this and take the bait.
@@iamlaDy19 , That "hope"...
misnderstanding is so intentional. exhausting.
I listened to this last night "Decode Secret Speech" by Sam Vaknin. This also helps to understand their deliberate techniques.
It is extremely exhausting to deal with, especially if you truly really believe that they just misunderstood you! These monsters do it on purpose!!
@@yellowdayz1800and that's the really hard part to grasp and try to understand - that they are doing it intentionally. It's planned. It's calculated. It's deliberate.
Intentionally refusing to understand is unloving. So many of us got trapped in unloving marriages when our spouse lied as they vowed to love us and be totally committed to us. We had a very small wedding which was being both recorded and photographed throughout. I was, of course, looking intently into my husband's face as he began to recite his vows. Suddenly, he spoke an unscripted, obviously cheesy-fake sentence with a very strange look on his face, a weird "smile" which I immediately remembered from the first time I noticed he was looking at me from across a room. So this was only the second time I'd seen this look on his face. Once our relationship started to destabilize, I saw it "turn up" more often, when he was being a smartass and mocking me. You all know what it was-- the "smirk." One day I sneaked my camera into my hand and attempted to take a picture of that face while he was ragging on me for nothing but his own amusement. I found out quickly that HE KNEW EXACTLY what he was doing, because in the one second it took for him to see my phone and for me to snap the pic, he managed to straighten his face out! He did NOT want me to have that photo. However, anyone can see from that photo that he was purposefully making a strange face at me, even if the smirk was being straightened out. I didn't know what narcissism was, but I most certainly knew that something evil was lurking within him. When I started looking & listening to him for the purpose of noticing his intentions, I was shocked to find so much 'evidence' of no love or empathy in his heart. I felt my sail luff within, and I knew I was steering a wrong course and my boat was flailing in the water, headed for disaster.😢 But we were in a big boat with a tall sail, the kind that requires at least 2 people to handle it...😢😪
@@truthseeker-mk4rtThank you for that. I was just about to ask HOW and WHERE we can relearn, to improve our communication skills, because I now see that I have a problem. I'd been really sick just before our break-up, and have spent the last six months recovering. The illness was neurotoxic, affecting my motor skills and my brain's abilities, so I didn't realize until today that part of what I've been experiencing is due to the horrible ways I learned to interact or not interact, as the case may be, with my narcissist ex-husband.
The way to communicate with a narcissist is silence. Minimal words. Like testimony. Simple as possible.
Yes, but the focus here is how doing so makes us lose our abilities to communicate with EVERYone
@@LindaC616 I know.
😃Hey that Linda has almost the same handle that I have!
@lindac6919 hey there! 😄 I'm on the east coast
@@LindaC616 Pacific Northwest Native here. Pleased to meet you, coast to coast!
I needed to hear this. After 30 years married to a narcissist, I have terrible anxiety when talking to others. I avoid it as much as possible. Now I have a better understanding of why I have become like this.
Next month 38 years for me and my health has been compromised the last 15 years. I cannot drive since I turned 55, I’m fixing to turn 57 next month 4 days before our 38 th anniversary. I’m isolated scared and don’t know what to do still!! Last weekend was epic and exhausting but my reactional abuse still occurs and that is another ❤thing all on me I know. makes things worse. I can’t leave. He can’t no matter what because of other reasons. Any advice. I don’t have many resources. Just got on facebook last month! So I’m way behind. Thanks to dr R I have listened to her a few years she is the main validation I can get. I thank you for the comment because I know someone understands ❤
@@lainaentzminger9903keep listening and learning with Dr.Ramani. It will make so much sense to you. The FOG. (fear, obligation, guilt) will begin to dissipate. The way ahead will be clearer.
The only communication with a narcissist is its one sided . They rant you listen. It's simple.
Me too 😢
I’m glad I was only with mine for 5years. Can’t imagine the abuse of 30years of dealing with them
Anything and everything you communicate to a narcissistic person, is an ammunition they’ll use against you and hurt you.
Exactly 💯
Communication with a Narc is just wasted breath.
if boundaries don’t work with the narcissist...
just slip out the back, jack. make a new plan, stan.
you don’t need to be coy, roy. just get yourself free.
hop on the bus, gus. you don’t need to discuss much.
just drop off the key, lee, and get yourself FREE.
cheers from southern ontario, canada 🍁
It seems that, like me, you use humor to cope. Love the lyrics
This is “50 Ways to Leave Your Lover” by Paul Simon
Haha 😊 "50 Ways to Leave Your Lover" Paul Simone 💕.
@@KathieMihindukulasuriya gotta have some humor when dealing with narcissists. they are literally adult aged toddlers lol.
cheers, steven 🍁
@@777Pattie correct, thanks for the heads-up.
wishing all the best.
cheers, steven 🍁
I have been victim of narcissistic abuse from my family, exes and friends and I came to a point where I thought I was in psychosis and thought I was the one with a personality disorder and that I was the one twisting the narrative, can you imagine?! Then, I found a psy that saved my life and she showed me that I was communicating very well, politely, expressed my needs correctly, etc... That those people are just committed to not understand you.
I could see clearly what was going on around me, she gave me confidence in my own judgement that's only then that I could finally get out of that mind fucked psychological control. I almost killed myself because of them, there is no words to express my gratitude towards my psy and my anger towards those i thought was my family and friends. We live in a crazy world! Protect yourself at ALL cost!
I completely resonate with this. I even typed out a fight I had word for word, read it to my therapist and at the end she said, "It's him, not you." I was so relieved! I tell myself that all the time now, "It's them, not me," "It's them, not me," "It's them, not me."
@@websurfer5772
💪💛
I totally get what you're saying.
I'm so glad that you found a good psychologist to help with that and that you have come through it
@@websurfer5772Right? I used to over explain my side of things and I tried to be as fair as I could possibly be even more fair to the narcissist when I was explaining them to other people.
When you're trying to explain this to other people you feel like they're not going to really believe you because what you're telling them is really unbelievable.
@@sharicoburn5475 exactly and sometimes, since our parents are narcissistic, we also choose narcissistic friends. We can have the same friends for 20-30 years and wake up one morning and realized we feel this way because our entourage kept us in a unhealthy state of mind. The only thing we know is abuse, how can we tell it's not normal? We can't...
And yes, it's unbelievable for therapists, others friends (lots of enablers), I found my peace since I isolated myself, I can create art again, I found myself a little bit.
Sometimes it hurts so much that the only way to survive is by being alone until you know your worth.
Don't lose your energy to explain yourself, they are committed to not understand, just leave and never look back. It hurts at first but then, you realize things you couldn't see without leaving. The most important person in your life is YOU. Your sanity, your freedom, your happiness is the only thing that should matter, every day!
I've bitten my tongue so many times that I still don't know how "I'm supposed to sound".
😂❤
Been there 😢
One thing I found helpful was getting out of the house and being among people. A free walking tour or an outdoor mall. I am so used to being with a narcissist 24/7 that I knew I’d have to start slow. Plus, I’m an introvert. Socializing is a challenge anytime. 😂 Listening to you has been life saving. I’m much stronger now. ❤
Ty for sharing, I will try that
If you are allowed to leave. They would call you ten times while you are out:"why is this taking too long...when will you be back..." and the tone gets worse with minutes. I watched a guy do this to his wife.
Was it me???@@faithkadiri1254
wow we are kinda similar in this situation! im with a Narc 24/7 on work & live , & im an introvert so i don’t go out & socialize at all. when we are not working together we are on the phone 7-8 hrs straight!!!!!
@@JDFuneralDirector ❤️😀
Finding out what NPD is was the best thing that happened to me in my entire life.
Same here!
And divorce.
Butt knowledge... was life saving. Still is. ❤
I cried through this whole video. You just described my entire existence after 20 years of this. The constant arguing semantics, just never quite able to understand what I’m saying, it’s the way I said it or words he wouldn’t use, or if it should matter or what a certain word I said means. The constant, ever-moving bar for what we should or could be doing instead of whatever I needed to discuss. I could go on and on. The result is that I’m afraid to have a conversation with anyone because he’s taught me that reaching out has consequences, it means feeling alone, misunderstood and embarrassed.
This video was the moment something clicked for me. Thank you.
So true 😔 I walk on eggshells around the narc husband, afraid to discuss anything as he is volatile and always causes an argument, even over petty stuff. He will glaslight, deflect, manipulate - and on top of that, he will then give me the silent treatment, most of those have been months at a time! They deliberately make out they don’t understand what you’re saying. They are never the problem. No wonder there’s never a resolution, acknowledgement or apology. Infact, the arguments are not even about what the issue was in the first place. He gets personal just to get a reaction so the focus is taken away from his behaviour. I’ve wasted nearly 30 years thinking one day a miracle will happen and he will realise the damage he has done to our family/marriage, but nope, because narcs don’t want to change, they know what they’re doing, it’s a choice they make. I have GAD and social anxiety as well as other anxiety disorders, and I hesitate talking to people, even family, as I’m afraid of saying the wrong thing. I get my words mixed up sometimes like my brain is tied in knots. Narcs confuse us. They drain us. We will look back and realise what a total darn waste of our life spent with these evil beings 😔
@@nickijames5122 I’ve been thinking about this all day and can relate to everything you said. It definitely feels like precious years wasted, but I have more years to live and don’t have to waste the rest of them! I keep reading “they never change” and I finally understand what that means. Wishing only the best for you. No one deserves to feel this way.
@@sl1456 I've read they can't change even if they want to. 😐
Yep. Reaching out has consequences, more often than not. I'm not just talking about my narcistic abuser. Thanks for sharing this reality.
I had to stop halfway through because of crying. Blows my mind how someone can act this way and not see it at all. Second marriage, almost 13 years, down the drain. Even celebrated my 50th birthday last week alone. He still hasn’t even acknowledged it. Ruined our very first (and second) anniversary too. I moved out for 10 days on our first anniversary. Should have stayed gone! He’s a joy vampire. I’m in limbo at the moment because the economy sucks, but I will be leaving hopefully within the next month. Can’t wait to escape.
After a lifetime of psychological and emotional abuse, this message is resonating _loudly_ for me. I have added this video to a playlist so I can watch it again as I am currently working on healing my many wounds and reprogramming my mind.
Thank you, Dr. Ramani, for your work.
I have playlist of narcissism videos. There is one Dr. Ramani video in particular I find myself returning to when I feel vulnerable. Sometimes I have to replay it several times before I get my equilibrium back, but it always works.
The narcissist pushes you to create another style of communication that is compatible with his pathological condition by canceling the self
Oh no. This sounds right.
It goes both ways, I think you meant *(his and/or hers)
@@EpicAdventure21yes absolutely
This is why being with a narcissist is a precious waste of time. Not only is it difficult to gain good communication skills in a narc relationship, but if this is a workplace narc or workplace narc system, you will not gain knowledge that is critical to furthering your career. This is the same for students in school around bullying students and teachers.
OMG the hyperverbalism since my split from my ex has been horrifying! It’s finally calming down as my nervous system heals. All these post-traumatic symptoms are SO SCARY. Especially when you’re at an age where you think every verbal or cognitive slip is the beginning of senile dementia LOL!!!
Dealt with this, did you al have any kids with them?
You start to think all those were always MANIPULATED in the first place...
I gave up pretty soon on arguing in my marriage. I just didn’t have the energy to keep beating my head against a wall.
Took me years but I got there too. When I shut that door it was never opening again
For hundreds of hours I got scolded for being shy and uncommunicative amongst other things.
There is no point in being logical with a narcissist- and he was always telling me I didn’t listen and he would spend the majority of the time talking word salad/ I got very good at blocking things out as well, memories of things he said to me or the way he treated me.
I’ve learned this years ago with my ex. It’s like they stare off into another world while you’re talking. Or they just twist every word I’m saying and turn it on me
@@PoyTroythe worst part is they actually think they’re right, it’s not like they are arguing because they don’t want to admit the are wrong, they just can’t imagine that could be wrong.
😅❤ Me, reading the title, being raised by a narcissist: Which communication skills?😂😂😂
I learned communication at 27 years old when I started therapy. No joke. Changed my life extremely
I find that writing helps in claiming one’s own sense of identity. Slows the mind down enough . . .
Yep. I've even found that if my husband and I start fighting, I go in the other room and type him an email about it, read it and edit it before sending it, and it goes much better when we talk to each other that way. Luckily, we're both into typing all day anyway though. Not everyone has that option, I just realized.
These people don’t know how to communicate with parters and kids. But they do very nicely with strangers. They have two faces… Wolf in sheep skin!!
Many first-generation immigrant parents save their frustrations for their children, while being obsequious to the society they’re new to. My father did this (and had vulnerable narcissistic traits). and my siblings internalized both.
I would love to see at least eighteen more videos about this particularly corner of narcissistic recovery! The damage that is done to the laws of communication by narcissism reverberates throughout society.
Hear hear!
I concur!
... at least 18. 😂😂😂👍👍
@@irenahabe2855 Exactly 18!!!!! 🤣🤣😆
One of the things I have noticed as a pattern with both narcs and sociopaths I have known is that you CANNOT TRUST their perspective on anything because they maintain their own narrative-they tell themselves and practice it on others, and often adapt it. But the narrative always rationalizes things or presents things in a way that they are never the bad guy and that the victim actually deserved to be treated that way. Or, they will reframe facts/situations to project blame onto the victim. Not only is it a big mistake to trust their perception, you constantly have to detect gaslighting, and you absolutely must never ever assume they have feelings like empathy or compassion. Counting on them to understand how you feel or to process experiences like a normal person would is a big don’t.
The weird part is when they would just make shit up during an argument, just rewriting history. thats when i just shut up,listen in awe, and am totally validated in my decision to get the hell on
I always tried to explain to my own family that I would always be calm and polite when trying to talk to the narcissist husband, and how I’d use the right words but because he is narcissistic there was never going to be a time that he would listen and understand or change his behaviour. They always thought I must have said something wrong or I’d said it in a way that annoyed him. Neither were true. Communicating with a narc is like taking a horse to water and making it drink. It just doesn’t work. Easy to blame the victim 😢
Your family isn't safe
Whoa. I Didn’t realize how much 30 years with this narcissist affected my communication. Thank you Dr. Ramani
You’re on point. I’m an etiquette and protocol coach and consider myself a good communicator, yet my experience with my narcissist ex shattered my confidence in my skills for a while. Fortunately, I have great friends who kept reminding me of my abilities and helped me get back to my real self as narcissists they do diminish you over time. Thank you for this video, always helpful 🙏❤️
Narcissistic folks are attracted to good communicators because they’re unable to communicate within their own heads and sometimes outwards too. So they rely on significant others in their sphere to reframe their mistakes in communication. Yet, they never see that and often will be angered when others try to help them finish a sentence they can’t get out or try to interpret things which were misspoken
@@cindynimmo You're right. I hadn't thought about this in isolation before. Yikes.
One of my biggest struggles is communication, now I see why! However I’m willing to change, because it’s caused me problems with constant “um” pauses, stutters,& not coordinating words well due to the authoritarian tendencies from my narcissistic mother.
SAME I RELATEVTO YOU once iy was so bad that I almost lost my ability to present coherent thoughts statements. I've always had bad throat/asthma problems duevto not able yo express clearly it sucks
@@dollytanwar4918 I so sorry to hear that, I hope you’re recovering in your speech ❤️🩹
My narc mother to me:
"You always say that communication is important for a healthy relationship, so now I'm communicating you that you need _______, I'm communicating that you must ________, and I'm communicating that you should _______. " 😂
😂 jayzus
@marioVSN.....
Yep,
ditto
🤣🤣
😅 So true! My brother and sister in law did the same thing. "We want to work things out and move forward in a healthy way. That being said, you can't make decisions for you and your family without our approval." 😅😅😅
For the whole last year of our relationship I refused to talk to my narcissist at all except via text only. It was literally the only way to stay sane and have an unimpeachable record of what was said. The lengths one must go to just to be able to function as a human being at the most basic level with these demons is ridiculous!
So true. Ongoing communication with manipulative people who gaslight or are consistently passive-aggressive and/or domineering is a total waste of energy. Especially when they try and trap you by 'playing nice' or gotcha behavior, unless circumstances require diplomacy to avoid/minimize further problems.
Can relate. I wouldn’t call myself as naturally shy but due to narcissistic abuse for years, I ended up over talking and also being so withdrawn that it’s hard to balance. I overanalyse everything too and wish I could get support. So difficult. Slowly getting there but it’s taking time.
Oh gosh! That is so true! We overanalyze everything after that... the version that MAY be true, the version that CAN be, the lie we know exists, and the intuition telling us something else...
They always use a half-truth, but which part is the truth? That you'll never know, and if you do, it's worse than you can imagine.
I can't reverse that now. I overanalyze everything, even 12 years later... I really have trust issues, and I don't think I can get over it.
@@Cass_772😢😢😢 Omg. Your words hit home. 💣💥
Over the past four years since I discovered Doctor Ramani, I've stopped apologizing, overexplaining, sharing too much, and acting goofy. I've become more confident, been watching what I say and keeping a lot more to myself, getting straight to the point concisely, and carrying myself with dignity. I'm not acting egotistic. I still show kindness and humor. But I've just shed all the dysfunctional coping mechanisms and ways I was trained to act that have interfered with my capacity for mature relationships while learning how to act healthy, and it's been attracting healthier people who take me seriously and respect me like I've never experienced before.
This episode hits me hard 😢
Thank you so much for sharing and
give education about narcissism.
Age 46, raised by covert narcissistic parents.
Found out a couple of years ago what it really means to be raised in such a toxic situation.
Big hug to all survivors ❤
Great content! I talk to clients all day long, we communicate, and its mutual respect. It is only when I arrive home that the circus begins, and I have to basically go grey rock. I feel sometimes I live two different lives. Fortunately, I spend more time at work than at home!
A therapist told me to just communicate better with my narcissistic family. He didn't get it and obviously it backfired.
You are great blessing Dr. Ramani for all the victims of a Narcissistic abuse.
Clear and direct communication just does not work with narcs. It seems to either frighten them _(as there's nowhere to hide)_ or it seems to come off threatening to them.
Because they are NEVER wrong, in their own mind. If they acknowledged straightforward communication, they would have to take responsibility for their own words/behavior. They only pretend to 'not get it'. 🤷♀️
Oh wow you just nailed me-I over talk and I feel like I’m always weighing my words. Very convoluted as you said. 😢
Thank you for this information.. I am slowly coming to realise that I've grown up with narcissistic people around me and that I've never known how to properly communicate or ask for what I want.. The only person I was able to do that with was my dad, and he passed on 14 years ago now... Now I'm with someone who does have healthy communication and it hurts me that I can't even express how I feel in the moment without fighting the urge within myself just to reply with 'I'm fine', 'it is what it is', 'I'm over it'
I've always wondered why I don't know how to communicate like the 30 year old woman I am and so many others can do it so much better than me. Lol
After 25 yrs with a malignant narc, I'm afraid to get into a healthy relationship because I don't know how to communicate anymore. I just shut down a few years into the marriage, went Grey Rock. I couldn't take the constant fighting and I was beginning to loose my sanity. Meal times were spent in silence, as were car rides. Sex was awful. We never went out alone because we had nothing to say to each other. We mainly texted, brief msgs
100% ❤🔥 sociopaths learn the cold empathy and communication skills. So dangerous
Communication with a narcissist is always one-sided. Only their opinions matter while you have to mute yourself. Very agonizing and infuriating. When is it ever not with a narcissist?
That’s because one is only an object with a narcissist-not a person. They only see themselves in the mirror and others don’t really exist to them. This is the pathology of narcissus.
@@sarahwilhelms2015 It's a monologue instead of a dialogue with them. We don't matter enough to them for them to actually listen. They already have the script written, and anything we say ruins their script. 💯
Spot on - really good to hear we’re not alone
There's a famous speaker who said that the quality of your relationships is based on the quality of your communication. The speaker did not say "good quality," mind you.
I think it's the other way around. And we're only responsible for 50% of our relationships.
Brilliant. I do catch myself sometimes leaving out important details with healthy people. So definitely a thing!
I have always thought of myself as socially ackward. I often trip over words and become anxious when speaking to people I know but are not good friends. This makes sense now, thank you Dr Ramani
This is so true. My brother came to visit me and it was so nice talking to someone who was open, healthy and acknowledged my feelings. It reminded me that I dont always have to tip toe in conversations or second guess myself.
My nEx would complain that I didn't talk with him, because I'd have long conversations with my brother when he came by. He didn't have the self awareness to realise that he was the problem. He never even pretended to listen when I talked 😢
Thank you Dr Ramini. As usual when I listen to your videos I learn more about narcissism, but also about myself and others who have been hurt by narcissists. It explains a lot about human behavior and makes me more understanding about those close to me. ❤
It really all began with the way my narc father treated my mom, my brother and I. Thank you so much, Dr.Ramani, for saving us xx
Had a job interview today.. after three years. Messed it up. Over spoke, over explained like I was trying to prove I'm not doing anything wrong.. over friendly, anxious like they were interrogating me. This has been a pattern for a long time.. it came up again. Now I don't even know what to say anymore. Whatever I say, even at home, I'm held accountable, corrected all the time, told I shouldn't be thinking like this or that. I'm constantly apologizing. Covering up, trying to go around instead of being direct. And it seems like I'm manipulating.. but I'm not, I just you know.. I don't know... and even when I'm talking I go round and round.. when I write I'm saying the same thing in different words.. like.. its difficult. I don't think this will ever get resolved. Better to stay alone. World is harsh.
Play around with Chat GPT. Type answers to interview questions then ask it to change tense ie. Friendly, Confident, or 8th, 12th grade level, college level etc. etc. Then memorize. Also Denis Sesal hr expert videos. Hope this Helps! PRAISE JESUS ❤
Play around with Chat GPT. Type answers to interview questions then ask it to change tense ie. Friendly, Confident, or 8th, 12th grade level, college level etc. etc. Then memorize. Also Denis Sesal hr expert videos. Hope this Helps! ❤ PRAISE JESUS
I still have this struggle when trying to communicate with non-narcissistic people. I tend to over-read the subtext or worry about hidden meanings when people are being open because I was so used to things having a hidden meaning. For example, when my husband would say, "Why don't you take a break from cooking and we'll get take out this week.", I would hear "Your usefulness as a cook is not needed. You are not needed." and I would cook extra food to prove I was needed. I was only able to stop this after I talked with my husband about how I felt when he said this. The funny thing is that with several things like this, talking about them with someone caring seems to greatly reduce their hold on me - as if they were vampires who die in sunlight.
You story is so heartbreaking. I pray for your divine healing and happiness soon. May the heavens bless you xx😇😇💝💝
I, too, struggle to take anything at face value. My radar is constantly on. I over analyze and try to decipher the true meaning of what a person is saying. I'm much more guarded now
I needed This video at this exact moment. My mom & dad are both high on the 😅emotionally immature spectrum, I think they are narcissists. Were all afraid to talk to my dad due to his rage. With my mother she takes jabs, plays victim, and does and says some of the weirdest almost scary things while staring at you directly in your eyes. I’ve had to shutdown my personality to survive them. Now they are wondering why I’m so quiet.
This is dead accurate. What are the right resources for invincible children who are more in middle age and literally never, ever learned communication? Never, ever? How does an adult learn to communicate from scratch, for the first time? Please post more videos on healthy communication, it could save many relationships. Thank you for all you do-you are the heart parents were never had and you have saved many lives.
I was not aware that I had poor communication skills, but you're totally right... Thank you so much!!!! 👍❤❤❤
That got me into a vicious cycle. I failed in many job interviews after quitting toxic workplaces.
You need to find the new job and get hired (and give a notice period to both companies) before you leave your existing job.
It’s the only way it works I’ve found, at 23 years old without losing money. Because I too used to just quit toxic jobs when I was younger with no backup plan, then get stuck with being unemployed and having to claim benefits. It was a very tumultuous time. I hope this helps.
But our experiences do make us stronger. I wish you all the best 😇😇
This is so true. I started to feel scared to even meet people at interviews, bcoz it generated emotions of being interrogated, and cornered, and I dreaded them.
Thank you! I recently spent a week with the people I grew up with and experienced serious criticism and judgement for not being who they have always treated me as.
I’m so grateful for the work I’ve done with multiple therapies and therapists and content creators like you ❤. It has helped me to trust my intuition and not engage when they attempted to escalate and get an emotional response. I got the hell out of there before I slipped back into unhealthy patterns.
When they talk instead of me like I wasn't able to talk.Then they tell "we tell instead of who cannot talk".But I can,then why they talk instead of me?Only ego,they want to rule everything and displacing others.
Honestly Dr.Ramani I look for your guidance daily
Trust no one is my mantra. I'm too old andvtoo eise hope for any kind of relationship...never mind a abusive one .communication is key but everyone in it for themselves in life. I had a walks to the balls kind of boss. He loved attention.....I haven't seen people in years
I have spent the last five years in almost complete isolation. The pandemic was the perfect excuse for how I was already living. I’m the scapegoat of a large family cult, number 7 of 9.
Girls and women were to be seen and heard. We were told to get over it even as we were being abused in real time. Forgive and forget and shut up about it.
I often find myself “stuck” when I have to communicate. Or, on the other spectrum, I over communicate to the point of embarrassing babble.
The CPTSD I suffer from has kept me in limbo. For 18 years I have moved from country to country non stop (except during the pandemic where I found myself in South America).
If I have to have communication with the family cult I shut down for weeks afterwards.
My adult son is a journalist and a fabulous communicator and he is passionate about passing those skills on to his children. I’m in amazed at his ability to speak freely and clearly. How can he be so good at communicating with a mother like me??
🤗
Because you’re a deeply loving, caring, kind, compassionate, empathetic mother who loves her children. You remind me of my mother and we get abused by my dad too. I wish you all the best on your healing journey. 😇😇🤗🤗
@@brandonhealy7158 you are lovely 🥰 Thank you.
@@brandonhealy7158 thank you for your kindness ❤️🩹❤️🩹❤️🩹
Yes. I so need this.
This is so true. Thank you Dr. Ramani. Thank you so very much.
I was just journaling about this exact thing a little bit ago.
I watch these videos with a journal in front of me and write out the thoughts, memories, and processes that pop up. If TH-cam were a VCR, I would have broken the pause button by this point.
It helps me get my thoughts more linear so I can communicate them better, rather than try to pick the needed snowflakes out of the shaken globe in the moment. The result of this is a lot of quality work in my therapy sessions.
To be honest, I am very grateful to Dr. Ramani’s channel: it saves my mom (she’s 70+) from going insane from all the abuse of her narcissistic elder sister, who recently and finally discarded her.
YOur mom should spend a good amount of time in nature to get grounded and also take her physical health regiment seriously including walking, workouts, nutrition, etc.
At least she finally got rid of her. There's still mourning and healing to go through though and I know that's not an easy road. Blessings to your mom.
OMG, I am exhausted just listening to this video; it is so spot on! It’s how I lived 6 years of my life, being drained of energy each day, on a repeating loop.
Thank you for your amazing videos! They have helped so much!
Well said! Thank you! 🙏
Thank you for this. I was always so social and had plenty of friends in the past. Never any issues with social anxiety. Now I constantly overthink everything I say around people and second guess myself. I feel so awkward and not myself, but don’t know how to get my old self back. This video helped me understand why I’m like this now.
I just realized it's also messed up my thinking and my ability to meditate or stay asleep.
This is amazing. I was an awkward kid, but learned how to be socially successful and carry good conversation. Now after seven years with my covert narc, I am almost back to square one. High blood pressure for the first time because of holding everything in. Having to pull back and just not care, because you can't pick and choose about caring- you either do or don't. Making sure you don't set off the rage. I'm in my 60s and feel like most of the progress I've made has fallen away. Confidence is shot. Trust in my own perceptions is gone. This talk is spot on
This is video so timely. Now that I am no longer in that relationship, I am struggling through basic conversations, especially with people I don't know. I didn't have this issue previously. In fact, I have become socially anxious and awkward at times.
I hear you. Me too. It has not only been shocking to me. I think it’s been surprising and hard to understand for people I have known for so many years. But I do seem to be getting better now that it is three years post split.
I’m relating to so many of these comments. It’s comforting to know that I am not alone, but it’s saddening to know the struggles that all of us have with people that we love and just want genuine love in return. Patience is a virtue but it can become a destructive vice for an empathetic person in a narcissistic relationship. 😢
Yes! I feel like I have to write things down, take notes, so i remember things correctly! Gaslighting destroys your confidence in your own memory!
And amazingly, you still get it wrong. There's no way to get it right.
@@BeachPeach2010 correct! Because they change the rules in the middle of the game!
My memory is great! I write things down to DOCUMENT what happens with family or at work. CYA. It's a sad reflection of society, and our own family, that documentation is necessary to protect yourself.
You are correct on the aftermath communication… not being able to convey my own feelings. Being apologetic not wanting to bother anyone with my needs…. Communication was hard after that but I am learning
It’s nearly impossible to be heard because they don’t care about your wants or needs just their own
Long before I ever imagined knowing about narcissistic abuse, I had been raised and then attracted to narcissists. I met an older woman back then that had this strange mannerism. She would begin to speak and then before finishing a thought, would just stop. She never finished one sentence. She seemed a sweet soul. I could only wonder what sort of control and abuse did that to her.
Yes yes everything you are saying is correct! I tend to over talk when with my close friends and they totally understand. I apologize a lot. They tell me stop apologizing, it’s ok. Something happens everyday, in regards to lack of proper communication.
I survived this long by keeping my mouth shut.
Growing up with a narcissist parent...I do not have the ability to communicate well, to socialize, and now I identify as AuDHD. There's a lot of crossover with the effects of trauma, CPTSD and the like. It took a long time and deep self work to realize it was probably not ONLY the trauma of a narcissistic Mother, but that there is an underlying way that I simply do not think like non-autistic people do. Just something of interest to note.
A decade out of a lifetime of abuse, I have become mostly isolated and just pretty much stop talking to others.
It’s too exhausting and emotionally devastating to deal with people anymore.
I couldn't believe it when I saw this in my natal chart. It's my destiny (North Node) to be alone all the time. I'm a Pisces sun but my North Node is in Cancer. I've been trying to come to terms with it every day. My whole chart reiterates this all the way down to the asteroids. Other people's don't, I've checked. Mine says it's rare. I'm also 80% extroverted so this feels like I've been put on Time Out. What a life.
I was instilled (as a very young child) with the knowledge of severe abuse within my parents family
This knowledge shaped my worldview as a child and (understanding) act out in very difficult ways (it also left me isolated from the friends in my neighbourhood (I told my next neighbour’s kid about tiy and that parent no longer let me play with her (that was a painful and confusing moment for me but as an adult, I can understand why she did that I was simultaneously told ‘to just be myself
I was never listened to and therefore never spoke up for myself
My hope was to be able to get space from my family in order to process this trauma in a way that I feel safe (and also doesn’t cause family conflict because I can’t handle that - speaking about these things is NOT EASY - especially to the ones who have caused you that pain
I lived in a constant state of ‘fear’ as a child although I was constantly told to just ‘relax’ and that it was normal to experience this and that I was over sensitive for expressing emotion
Most of life has been about just ‘surviving’ -and making the past of things but I am tired and burnt out and I can’t go on living this way
As a right this, a big of me expects no be believed or have my feelings validated ( being gaslit is a normal occurrence for me
I love my family dearly and I hate to think about it will cause them hearing this but I know they’ve been through a lot so I m hoping they’ll be ready to forgive me
Honey, don't tell your family anything about this. It's not going to work out well for you. Keep listening to videos like this and only be a gray rock around them. Sorry, that's the best advice there is .
I’m so sorry. It’s time to let go of your evil family. You can still love them, but from a distance far far away, nowhere near them. Make sure you live your best life happy and independent of them. Blessings for you 😇😇
Yep. Not only I have to deal with this, I also stutter sometimes plus having an accent when speaking English since it’s not my mother tongue. What a good combo to have.
Thank you Dr. Ramani. I love this topic. You are right. Healthy communication between two individuals has to be mutual. To be acceptable on the giving side and the receiving side. Have a Happy 4th of July.
This is why I internalize feelings and can never seem to get my clear thoughts out to those I care about..😢. Also the over talking thing! I always wondered where that came from and this totally makes sense!! Now to try and work on new communication skills learned from years of living with a very covert narc!
That thinking of every word part before you say it. Rang true while I was with my ex. Even the simplest of questions could get misconstrued when talking to my ex. It was then that I learned I had F’d up, and I needed to exit lol
Omg. I cant believe I never pinned this part down! I felt so stupified! I figured maybe my intuition was off or struggling to adapt around all the games, or my brain was freezing up with all the stress! but hello, there is that self blame again! No wonder!!! My whole life people have told me I'm such a good communicator, such a good listener, so empathetic and understanding.. and I've felt like a train wreck and so clumsy, and definitely felt shady for no longer being so straightforward, confident and up front, when actually no wonder, and its alright to protect myself for a while. Im still the honest kind person I've always been but its yet another way I've felt so broken after these experiences and couldnt recognise myself as a communicating competent person. Im so glad its coming back, and I'm slowly adjusting to the observation that I can stay my comunicative listening caring genuine self, but now I have more scope and can adjust more quickly when Im around dodgy people.. I dont have to offer my open heartedness on a platter with a communication vulture. Its interesting how specific this is! So much of narcisstic abuse effects everything across the board, but this life skill cuts so deep when it's twisted by narcissistic abuse. Im so glad to recognise the pattern, and take my power back. ❤
Thank you so much for discussing this extremely important issue dr Ramani ❤😊 Real miracles can happen when we can learn to communicate openly and easily when we finally start healing from the terrible communication disconnect and disaster which narcisistic relationships forced us into. Communication does not exist with the narcissist it’s like operating on two different radio wave lengths! I am healing and learning how to communicate in a healthy manner and it feels so good 😊❤ wish we will all get there 😊❤
How are you learning to communicate better, if I may ask?
And it makes you question and doubt your communication skills. Plus, it worsens the fear of communication if you come from a narcissistic family
Before the ex left he often would often say "For someone so intelligent, you're terrible at communicating". After the ex left he called my lack of communication "selfish and childish" because I stopped talking to him. He blocked me and then unblocked me multiple times. If it wasn't for my job, where I had to be an effective communicator, I probably would have started to second guess myself and my communication skills.
Thank you. This explains why I’ve become this way !
This came out just in time. Trying to unlearn a lot of that while around healthier settings, and see when I feel safe for sure to talk more. Talked too much at first prior too.
Thank you for the validation ❤️
I know a narc..when I confront him in the way someone else is also there. About what he does. I speak to him in words what said, I see him through, his intentions for why he talks or want something from the other person...: he seems easily not responding in words at all. Even when I say straight in his face about a lie he told me('you gave the number, last year...)I didn't gave him anything and was aware of that bcse I did not trust him. So he sais'last year'bcse he seems to believe I forget, bcse of the time. So I say to him hours later: you and I know, I did not gave you My number' he just look than forward and not responding. The quick response to not respond is for me not understandable. AT ALL!.
Stop talking to him. It's the only way.
Thank you so much! I have always felt like I lacked communication skills
Communicatable they are not. Very helpfull Dr Ramani you are very gifted in that field. Thank God for you 💜
When the other person is communicable, communication is a magnificent tool for building closeness, intimacy, connection and safety. Assuming they are self-aware, empathic and present.