Comic Book Girl 19 can you please take all your wolfkin employees back to America now and please punish Grace and all catkins followers for their crimes against your wolfkins and give me some response. You have citizenship in Malaysia as well as in America. Can I talk to you one of these days?
Comic Book Girl 19...I know Grace and Elle are fond of calling the hellcat Alexandef Fan mer. That is not its name. I tell them this every year. Fan mer is the name of a wolfgod from the viking religion in the marvel comics. Calling the hellcat Fan mer is like calling Zilla Godzilla. It's disrespectful to the original source material. Arkees book only came out recently. They didnt come out before my group's book. Grace and ellen did not grow up on those books. That is a lie they made to moralisied their crimes. They are betraying their friends at Marvel for Arkee whom they recenrly met.
That final episode looked edited AF. It's as if they took a scene from every episode storyboard of the season and crammed them together. Did I overlook this on all the other episodes or amirite?
The creators were interested because of things like the Red Wedding, and never cared much for the fantasy elements or many of the characters themselves. As the big twist passed, and the book material ran out, they lost both the motivation and material required to make the show great. So they just wanted it to end, rushing the conclusion. For awhile, they could reasonably conclude nobody cared about the really in depth stuff and rushing was fine. That is until they broke even the most casual of the fan's tolerance for such things, and the backlash hit hard.
The nuance flew right out of the window and became a typical Hollywood vapid tv series. I think the increasing budget was the doom of the show. The idiot writers felt the need to force the narrative into big costly scenes. The first 4 seasons were the best because of scale and the NEED to fill space with story rather than spectacle.
Totally. You can tell they didnt care even about the red wedding when they changed the jeyne westerling plot into a love story. Completely undermined the core of Robb's character and the detailed way in which tywin utterly fucked him. Or even earlier the house of the undying prophecies. All they cared about was the shock and it's horrible. I'm surprised they even figured out who Jon's mother was seeing how little they pay attention. 😓😔
The steep decline in quality (writing) of the show makes rewatching the show unappealing and recommending the show almost impossible. It is bizarre that every aspect of the production has remained A Tier, except for the writing, and it just proves that Dumb & Dumber are solely to blame for destroying the shows legacy. HBO are on record as wanting 10 Seasons of 100 Episodes, yet D&D demanded to end it in 7 Seasons, with the Seventh Season being split in half and turned into 2 Seasons. The Long Night should have been a Season and Dany's slip into Madness should have been a Season, instead thess two Brainlets decided to compress those two arcs into an Episode each! That's like compressing all of Robb's Rise and Fall into one Episode, or Jaime's Redemption arc into one Episode, or Ned's story arc into one Episode, or Bran's journey to becoming the Three Eyed Raven into a single Episode! D&D are the living embodiment of Talentless Hollywood Hack Writers!
Not only would it be like compressing those story arcs into one episode, but then walking back the character development and having them be reset the following episode. God grief this was a disaster season.
The lighting for the night scenes is usually always terrible though. All I can think is what is the director of photography and lighting crew thinking. The long night is the worse lit setpiece I ever saw in a high budget production. Worse
The ending was just rushed and poorly thought out in every single aspect. When you think about it, we literally had 3 villains that were developed for so long that all got killed in anticlimactic, unsatisfactory ways, with Dany being the worst case because they literally just killed her within the first 20 minutes of the last episode. It was lowkey disrespectful to the character and actress (although all the characters got screwed so she isn't alone at least.)
Ahhh man, CBG19, the badass chick that got me into ASOIAF/GoT, she was calling D&D out in 2014 but we didnt want to hear it LoL she was right, unfortunately
@@cynicalleviathan3305 honestly, now that it's sinked in a bit I'm truly astonished how badly GoT fell apart. I read the books becuz of cbg19, and fell in love with this incredible world George created, D&D let us down...im not gonna say I wish i never watched it but apart of me feels that it's so disappointing becuz it was so good, it's like they built us up to crash us down...and in the end it was not worth it at all to have the books spoiled to some extent
@@cynicalleviathan3305 and I cant believe anyone that defends that trash, I know it sounds ridiculous but I lost some respect for any friends that thought it was okay, like the friends that are huge fans, I dont get how they could respect that
I actually loved the show until Dany turned in to the Mad Queen and burned down Kings Landing. She was my favorite character except for Tyrion. Then Jon kills her and gets sent to the wall So depressing.And to add insult to injury Bran the Broken becomes the king YUUUUUUUKKK.
YES! and they just went for Disneyland... GRRM mentioned that Dumb & Dumber wanted to "have a life" and simply DID NOT WANT GoT to go on for so many seasons.... those 2 jews where just greedy for the big Star Wars money. But, there might be even more hiding behind that show-killing... thinking about feeding the Archons if you know what I mean ;o)
@@comradedangerfield srsly where is antisemiticism here? Jews are known for Jewel crafting and banking skills. What a strange world we are living, where any comparison can be treated as bad intensions. Get a fucking life.
This show went from smart, political/social drama to stupid, TV-style character melodrama. D&D should've sacrificed a few dollars to bring in some decent writers.
Except they're being told how smart they are by millions of people who huff Dumb and Dumber's chodes, and defend their stupidity every chance they get. I think it's very likely that David and Dan actually have no clue how bad they suck. All they have to do is look at their bottom line to reaffirm their awesomeness.
Link to a video on theme of How GOT should have ended. (1+ million views within 2 days)I enjoyed it, felt reasonably epic compared to what we've received. th-cam.com/video/G0mncEl4nVU/w-d-xo.html
D&D forgot about this little thing that pissed off fans are NOT just spoilt winey babies crying over that it didn’t go they way they wanted People take time to connect with the characters,they take times out of their lives to just plainly forget about everyday life to relax and just let it go and watch -it helps it heals-with the way they did season 8 was as if they took a hot steaming crap on us all How dare they rush the biggest show ever on tv like a huge slap in the face for the fans who wanted to feel the satisfaction in the journey it sounds like “ok quickly quickly this finishes like this , like this , let’s pretend that plot isn’t important ok we’re done? Ok now Star Wars “
Nihilism is exactly right. No healthy relationship shows up on screen at the end, every character ends up where they began. Growth is impossible, all personal relationships fall away. As far as the writing, every major conversation gets cut immediately before it reaches the point. We don't get to see how the Starks feel about R+L=J. Now, at the end, none of those cuts paid off. So it's not like there was a great hidden conspiracy happening offscreen, the writers just couldn't figure out how to write interpersonal dynamics. The other thing is that the heroes function as antagonists in the narrative. You have a better understanding of the inner workings of the villains. That means when you see the heroes make it through to the ending you don't really understand what they care about. If LOTR ended with shots of the Witch King of Angmar riding off to conquer the world, you wouldn't even know what it means. You would have no framework to understand his values.
The way that the dialog cuts before anything is resolved will bug me for years, and probably make a rewatch impossible. The fact that they played the on-screen plot completely straight, and didn’t deliver on the most emotionally relevant plot points is baffling. So I assumed they were withholding information a la the ned Stark execution, because they were going to pull off some shenanigans where the Starks have learned to play the game. I was 100% down for Dany being Ygritte 2.0, Jon feeling like he had to use her for her dragons, and being stuck riding the tiger after the long night. But no, Jon was with her completely out of love, and just happened to have no on screen chemistry. ‘Yur muh kween‘ ... Beating my head against the wall. So dumb.
The Haven Really? Dorne, sand snakes, Sansa marrying Ramsay, Areya in Braavos, Tyrion doing nothing were great? They weren’t complete disasters but had a lot of issues and the writing was already in a downhill since then, people only noticed until this season because it got trendy to hate the show.
10 years amounting to nothing in the end. I remember watching your Epic History series right when you first uploaded it. It was so much fun. Such a meaty, vast lore to dig into. Makes me want to gag. Too disappointing.
@@iminformedbecauseisawabunc9402 And ya know what? It could even be satisfying and make sense if done competently. The problem is that "competent" is about as far away from a fitting adjective you can get for this shit.
I can totally understand the Casts tried to defend it because everyone involved in this show were doing their best job but unfortunately D&D betrayed them. For me tho, it only made want to read the books again so I can look forward to the real story.
What really irks on top of favoring action instead of politics is how bad the action was executed. The violence become so dramatic compared to any of the sword play of the first season. Nothing this season came close to being as visceral as when jamie and lanisters came to arrest Ned Stark.
I just wanted to say, THANK YOU! I found you all those years ago and got to love all these characters with your videos. I remember how you loved the books even before the show started, I remember how your favorite character is Jaime and how you got the Lannister lion tattoo on your arm. I remember your love for this world. Thank you for making this last discussion with us, looking forward to continuing the discussion after the books come out.
Also, in episode 3...Theon made a redeeming, emotional, and honorable death that truly was touching. Then Arya killed the Night King like she was in Space Jam and taking away from that moment. When I say that, I am talking about the SFX of her jumping, not the fact she was the one to get that killing blow. For me, the Night King isn't the Night King anymore. He is 'Mean Guy Scary Face'. He is the new Darth Maul. They both even have "scary" horns popping out of their heads, great theme songs, and zero character development. He was set up for years and gets turned into ice cubes. I wanted Thanos and ended up getting Steppenwolf. Walter Frey killed more main characters then Mean Guy Scary face. It was a technical marvel to watch that battle at Winterfell, but I feel cheated because of that ending. And I want to make it very clear of why it was upsetting...Mean Guy Scary Face was a nothing character...I don't care if Arya killed him and Jon wasn't the hero...That storyline turned out to be boring overplayed zombies and now it seems so dumb... I will never watch the show again after this debacle.
David Bentley the night king isn’t as much of a character as it is a living weapon designed for one thing: wipe out humanity. The army of the dead killed many a soldier, every other character was on it’s last legs, Jon had a dragon to contend with. Berric Dondarion was brought back from the dead countless times for a singular purpose: make sure Arya lives so the Night King can die. I liked it.
@@BartvG88 But the children of the forest said he wanted revenge. Weapons obviously don't want revenge (I didn't mean for that to sound pretentious). His success in battle showed intelligence before 'The Long Night'...After seeing what Daenerys did to Kings Landing The Night King should've attacked where Bran was located in less than a minute. Also, Jon and Daenerys abandoned the plan early in the battle and the blizzard he made was blinding them...but the Night King has Bran GPS. But instead, he fights 2 dragons...and smiles when the dragon fire doesn't work on him...Weapons smile? Why would he just stare at Bran unless he was reveling in the victory to come with the death of the 3 eyed raven. Then there were Craster's babies. How does a monster make a deal? Did they talk or did he send a message saying he needed babies? Yes all the characters were on their last legs...like Sam...he was laying on bodies stabbing the zombies on top of him like he was a bigger version of Jon Snow. But he survives. Almost everyone does. I don't care how many people died. I cared about the actual characters of the show dying...so few did. Arya killing the Night King looked stupid. It's not because Jon Snow didn't kill him, its because she bounces on a trampoline and does the shitty dagger trick... I have to stop. I could go on and on all day . But I am glad you enjoyed it, I wish I felt the same.
@@DavidBentley23 The Night king had personality, as well as intelligence, but he's not a character in the same way that Tyrion is, for example. That's what I meant. As for some of the characters surviving: 1) while the undead are relentless, they arent the best swordsmen. They don't fight the way trained knights do. 2) The director wanted a shot of all the characters being in danger, seconds from death, to raise the stakes and make the deathblow more exciting. It worked for me, I was like: "Oh man, everyone is completely fucked, how are they gonna get out of this? Come on Bran, do something!" Shame it didn't work for you. Perhaps you can take solace in the fact that the books are still coming, providing the much needed depth and breathing room in between these events, and perhaps changing things entirely.
I went through the exact same thing as CBG19 with GOT. I stopped watching after S05. I didn’t watch S06 when it aired, I was hoping for WoW, but when that never materialized and S07 began airing I binged S06 to catch up... at that point I realized that GOT is just a Fun, Action Adventure Fantasy and it got me back on board.... i was excited for S08 and more fun shenanigans. Ep 1 was fine, Ep 2 was really good, Ep 3 they straight up shat the bed... that’s when I knew this is not going to end well... Ep 4 was the episode I realized how much I cared for the story. I really thought I didn’t. Ep 5 was just so painful to watch and Ep 6 was bland. Nothing resonated emotionally it was all just so silly and nonsensical.
I loved most of the plot points of the season, but it was just executed poorly. It should have been 2 seasons (at least). 1 to deal with the night king and 1 to deal with king’s landing/wrap up.
I think Martin has had these downfalls in life and understands the growth in life through pain and then I guess D&D havent have personally experienced this level of shortcomings and lack the experience to see these characters.
Lauri Väisänen There is a danger in what you say; whilst you’re likely correct that part of Martin’s skill is from his personal growth through suffering, it shouldn’t be a prerequisite for a good writer to have gone through such suffering. Russell T Davies believed in the saying, “A moment’s imagination is worth a lifetime of experience”, and I think that’s true. Whilst Martin’s experience contributes to his understanding of his characters, his imagination, though undoubtedly aided by his experience, is ultimately what makes them truly great. As my consumption of the show is scattershot and of the books is non-existent, take what I say with a grain of salt. But from what other people have told me, I suspect that it’s not that D&D lack the experience to understand these characters; they simply lack the imagination and/or work ethic to do so.
I noticed how the book readers went from being angry to just being empty after the last episode. I felt so hollow for so long after that episode that I even couldn't be mad. It was just so stupid to destroy so many characters, they became so bland. A tragedy
The best battle in the show is pretty much Battle of the Bastards. The shots and style was inspired by Kenth’s Henry the 5th and Orson Welle’s Chimes at Midnight. And the tactic used by the villain if not for Little Finger’s calvary helping Jon was based on the Battle of Cannae
The Battle of Blackwater was my favorite battle episode. Not because of the action, which was still pretty good overall, but there were plenty of other ones with better action and CGI visuals (because of their increased budget). I liked it the most because it just had some of the best writing and acting in it that made the rest of the battle feel so very grounded and real. Here were a few of those moments: *The Hound:* _Any man dies with a clean sword, I’ll rape his fucking corpse!_ -------------------- *Bronn:* _Don't get killed._ *Tyrion:* _Nor you, my friend._ *Bronn:* _Oh... are we friends now?_ *Tyrion:* _Of course we are. Just because I pay you for your services doesn't diminish our friendship._ *Bronn:* _Enhances it, really._ *Tyrion:* _Oh, “enhances.” Fancy word for a sellsword._ *Bronn:* _Been spending time with fancy folks._ ------------------- *The Hound:* _I lost half of my men. The Blackwater is on fire._ *Joffrey:* _Dog, I command you to go back out there and fight!_ [The Hound shakes his head.] *Tyrion:* _You're in the Kingsguard, Clegane. We must beat them back or they're going to take the city... your king's city._ *The Hound:* _Fuck the Kingsguard. Fuck the city. Fuck the king._ [The Hound walks away. Joffrey’s face turns into complete shock and horror.] ------------------- *Tyrion:* _Don't fight for a king. Don't fight for his kingdoms. Don't fight for honor, don't fight for glory, don't fight for riches, because you won't get any. This is your city Stannis means to sack. That's your gate he's ramming. If he gets in, it will be your house that burns. Your gold he steals, your women he rapes. Those are brave men knocking at our door. Let's go kill them!_
@@jsgoudy that's a really good point. I was really surprised about the winterfell battle. I think they at least tried and they took a risk on the darkness. If that battle was good (and I feel like some things were edited out). If that were good we would be like well they at least can do action scenes. But the did something. With the rest of the season there was nothing done with their characters.
Been waiting for your take, your history videos definitely helped me get into the show more. So sad the writers wanted to subvert all expectations they've been building to
I went back and rewatched some of your epic history videos; I know that I’m in pain but I think most of us realize that you’re even further into this world than us, for which we extend our love and condolences...
For decades I never really understood what a f#@kboy is, then the meme with Brienne writing that in the book in the finale, writing about Jamie- poor Nikolaj's character should've had a better ending, now his arc is weak as hell
All these bad stories, like The Last Jedi, are trying to subvert expectations. That's not how stories work. If you ignore foreshadowing and Chekhov's Guns, character arcs and sequential stuff like that it isn't a story. It's just a bunch of random things in a row.
I keep thinking about music. Just about every piece of music ever written ends on either the tonic or the dominant note. For example, if music is written in the key of c the last note will be either a c or an e. There are6 other notes available, and you can certainly subvert my expectations if you use one of them, but it'll probably suck.
I think you're going a little easy on George R.R. Martin. Yes, D&D did a poor job of concluding this series, but George R.R. Martin in all likelihood will do an even poorer job of concluding the series, because it looks like the book series won't finish at all The series has ballooned in scope as each subsequent book was released, and I think it got out of hand even for Martin himself. It's been 8 years since the last book was released. By comparison the 4th book in the series was released 9 years after the first book was released. So this is significantly more than a slowdown in Martin's writing. So there's 3 possibilities of what's happening with the books. 1. Martin doesn't know where to go next due to the series get so vast and unwieldy. 2. Martin simply has no interest in finishing the series. He's made a ton of money, he's a 70-year old man. It's been 8 years, let's say he finishes the next book 2 years from now, which I think is optimistic at this point. He's going to write that last book as a man pushing 80? I really doubt that. 3. The series is so unwieldy that the next book is just going to be fucking massive and make it even tougher to write that 7th book. Like you said, the show took a significant dip in quality after it surpassed the books. I don't think it's fair to expect TV writers to be able to complete a terrific novelist's book series in a satisfactory manner when that series is clearly not even close to being concluded. Yes D&D deserve some blame for taking on the task, but Martin also sold the rights when the series was nowhere near finished, I don't blame him for taking the money, but if you're going to criticize D&D for the predicament of the show, you certainly have to blame Martin for that as well.
You were one of the reasons I got into the show years ago. Before I started reading any of the books, listening to your take on the histories and lore really got me into it. Now here we are in mourning😩😂
I think part of the reason it feels gross is that the actions don’t match the tone. And not in a fun way, in a way where they were deaf to what was happening. If I don’t complain that the characters acted out-of-character and take everything at face value...essentially everyone around Danaerys becomes a villain in their own right. Not in a stupid, fire-breathing Hitler way, but in all of the ways that deeply hurt us in our lives: betrayal, lies, selfishness, carelessness, using others, manipulation, etc. And while such characters existed in previous seasons, we had a “good” character on screen for the audience to identify with and be able to judge the bad guys. As long as we can comfortably say that they’re the bad guys in a story, we can also have the freedom to enjoy their evilness as it plays out. Hence why we can appreciate Cersei. If other characters acted like everything Cersei did was fine and never spoke what the audience felt, we’d have been equally confused and upset. By having someone in the show draw that moral line, the audience doesn’t feel up in arms and compelled to be the one to do it - that role is taken care of within the story and we can sit back enjoy the story as it unfolds. The difference here is that there’s no contrast in the last episode. In order for everyone to get where they got and to push Danaerys to where she went, they made every single “good” character into characters disgustingly immoral and absent of any insight. If they wanted to make Dany into more of a tragedy, they could have... but they needed to actually frame Jon or Sansa or Tyrion as a betrayer or bad guy. They don’t do that. They completely put all their chips in the basket of making the audience accept Dany being Mad Queen and needing to get put down, and so they made everyone else good guys who get endings they’re happy with. It’s just all off and it feels gross.
Another thing with that final murder : we all saw it coming. John had little to no real lines for most of the season and John and Danny had very little emotional moments together that bound them together. That killing was quick. It was not sad. It didn't feel like John was sad (as he sat there crying) Within 5 minutes of that death, characters are joking. These are the 2 titular characters of the show, and they were not given enough attention in the last season. Arya should have been killed trying to kill Danny, leading to John making the choice to kill his Mad Queen. The Bran left field throne grab colors literally every detail after Bran becomes the 3ER as selfish and cruel. And the show says: be happy - Bran will be a good leader cause of stories! And after that he fucks off to track down Drogon instead of discussing the realm. (dont get me started on how the new electoral system actually causes MORE WAR/BACKSTABBING as houses will now be scheming for votes after every king's death ) The final moments are very hollow. The Stark journey is a family torn apart and finally coming together again - stronger, better. And at the end? they each fuck off to be do their own thing. Totally random (Also...greyworm would not have known if John came right back to Kings Landing or to Winterfell. Greyworm and his boys are going to go die in Naath)
Vundal Everything you said plus 1000 other things that have no logic. Seems the writers bought into the idea that characters die and kill for “no reason”. In the books there is always a series of reasons that lead to action. Kind of wild how they made almost every move happen based on short, single sentence conversations and no real substance.
My problem with Martin is not that he's taking too long (I am admittedly annoyed by it, but I get that he want to get it just right), it's that he's distracting himself with other shit. Spin-off books, multiple HBO shows in development, and even games! Finish one thing before you do the rest!
I gotta say, even though I do agree with the general sentiment in this video, I think you guys are entirely too forgiving of George R.R. Martin's contribution to the franchise's problems. While it is true that George created everything good about GoT (obviously), I think it's also fair to say that he took his sprawling style to an extreme that he didn't have to. The books are laden with subplots that add dozens of new characters and impose more complexity and make it harder for the writer to advance the real meat of the plot. Don't take my word for it either, after Clash of Kings, the books drop in quality and increase in the time between books, and this complexity was obviously an imposition on D&D. To be 100% clear: I am not defending D&D. They could have done a better job than they did, they had that ability with what they had, and they chose to do things in possible the worst fashion possible. All I am saying is that their idiocy compounded real structural problems with the story.
Cook I think you mean Storm of Swords, the third book. After that the gap between books grew and got even more complex. There were so many subplots that the 4th and 5th books cover separate events happening at the same time.
No Danika one book shouldn't take 10 years to finish. I don't care how exceptional you are lol. Even if it was 1 page per day it would be over three thousand pages done by now.
They fooled the world into thinking that they could write. They were competent at turning the fantastic book material into a good tv series. As soon as they run out of source material they had zero clue about what to do and instead tried to constantly shock people instead of writing a good and fulfilling story.
C’mon, Dany burninated like a million people. She had to go. How they got there was without grace or tact and maybe that part was “gross” but Jon killing Dany was in no way, shape, or form like Fatal Attractions. Thats like saying maybe Stalin wasn’t so bad.
The first warning began with Stannis Baratheon and how D&D butchered this amazing character. From there on, all characters ended up butchered mercilessly by the show runners. Thanks God, we have the books.
They not only ruined this season they actually ruined the re-watching value because what the point when you know how much those characters are destroyed later on. They fucked up big time and all they had to do was take there time. They turned down the 10 seasons so D and D deserve all the flack they get.
the problem with daeneris arc was that she was a wise ruler at the beginning then they wrote her as a warmonger. it would have been better if varys attempted to murder her on sansas orders then jon died on the battle, so people killed everything that was good on her. all she has is power and enemies thus the desire to conquer, effectively turning her into a warmonger. then aria would have the perfect motivation to kill her (we all know she was coming with full vengeance towards sansa) but noooooooo lets wrap this quick we have to make spinofs!!
CBG19 I like your guests, but I like you so much more, so I'd rather hear more from you than from them. It seems like some of your guests interrupt you way too much at times, which sucks, because then we don't get to hear your thoughts on the matter. By no means I want to sound disrespectful to your guests (sorry if it comes across this way), I actually like them, but I when click your videos, it's from you that I wanna hear.
This was cathartic. There is so much negative people on the internet especially in social media comments section, that I’ve been reluctant to come to terms how much of a letdown this season was because for fear of being associated with those types of people. This video does a good job of gettin beyond “it sucks” by really breaking down the creative decisions and coming from people who wanted the show to be good.
Oh shit. You both put it into words. I felt hollow and empty and didn’t feel connected to the characters anymore and didn’t know how to explain it. You both explained it perfectly. I appreciate the video. Just going to have to wait for the books for a proper ending. I am patient. I do not mind the wait. George can take as long as he wants.
You do understand that how this story ended came from George, right? If you don't like these endings, then blame George. Maybe D&D didn't get there the best way. But the ending came straight from him.
D & D were only fans of the first three books and never believed the show would last post 3/4 seasons, like Roman and Deadwood. They started rushing through content to get to the end season 5 onward. They never intend to include the Ironborn and Dorne plots, and never really did. They cut so much that things felt hollow toward the end.
I don't think you can blame it going south on running out of source material. The end of the fifth book the plots were going all over the place. There's definitely a reason RR hasn't published in 8 years, he can't tie it up. They also did a good job of cutting out a lot of BS. Like half of the 4th book was Brienne looking for the Stark girls in the wrong place '\(-__-)/' Also, i think the statement at the end was that the Iron Throne killed Daenerys and that's why Drogon burned it instead of Jon
I also agree with the 4th and 5th books of GRRM...he's gotten all these long winded plots that wind into needless over-complicated places with no satisfying final destination in sight. I for one wasn't a fan of Lady Stoneheart or the "False Dragon" arc. And besides, it was GRRM who picked D&D so he's not totally blameless for how badly the show ended up.
I love that you brought up your early GOT videos. They were amazing and has kept me around since. They were how I got my wife to watch the series. I was watching the Season 4 premiere where Tywin is melting down Ice to make the two swords, and she kept asking questions like; “who’s that? Why is the sword a big deal, why are you crying?” You know? Silly questions. So I showed her the Targaryen video you created first, then she was hooked after that. Thanks 👍
It's going to be interesting to see what happens when the book series is finished and how disappointed some people will be in the book endings as well.
Yeah but I highly doubt george has been working on a winds of winter for 9 years, and then will end up serving rushed trash just like the series did. I honestly feel like george would rather die with the series unfinished rather than soil it by finishing it in a subpar manner. And that's the main reason people are pissed about the series ending, not because of what happened to certain characters. But because it was executed so poorly.
I think it says more about the writers perception of women than anything else, murder the strong female who was too dimensional to do anything with besides murder, then with arya you wonder if they even understood her character, she was already fulfilled a season or two ago, her wanting to have sex made no sense. But god forbid a virgin goes to war,
I’m a book reader. Their stories weren’t “cheated”. For whatever reason, the series was rushed to completion. When the source material was past, D&D pieced together the end based on the broad stokes George gave them. All of the characters had solid conclusions. They just didn’t have the time to spoon feed it to butthurt Monday morning TH-cam quarterbacks.
If this was Martin’s twist: Jon gets “fixed” so the bloodline will end with him and it turns out that Bran cleverly planned to have Danny to go crazy, tricking the Night King by playing bait, and rule the whole country minus the North
Agreed, it Def seemed liked they all became very bland this season, there was very much a lack in articulism in the way they interacted with one another this season compared to other seasons....simply put but well said by u 👍
finally!! the only opinion I care about update I thought you were going to review the episode. I think I am more bummed about this video than I was about the GOT finale
No answer/resolution to 1. Arya's hit list, 2. Melisande's prophecy about "blue eyes...green eyes", 3. Azor Ahai 4. Cersei's prophecy from the Wood Witch. 5. Jon Snow as the savior of Westeros, Bran's insistence that he will never be kings because he is the Three-Eyed Raven... the list goes on. And we cannot read the books to get the answers because there are no books...yet...
David Wiles cercei was dead before arya could get to her. Of all the Freys (or the waif, or Meryn Trant) had brown and green eyes. The show omitted these profecies. Jon Snow saved Westeros by uniting the North, and bringing Dany with all her might to fight the Night King. Bran said he could never be a LORD... pay attention :)
TV show viewers are finally learning what we, Fantasy readers, known for years... don't start seeing a show based on books OR read books of series that is not finished yet... Wheel of time? Dark Tower? How many years it took them to finish it?
CBG 19 you’ve inspired me to read the books and I’m so happy I did. I never would have without you. I’m also broken hearted that I wasn’t born in a time frame that fate could have brought us together. I’m a dreamer and I recognize my follies but when a fool partakes in his follies for a long time, he sometimes become wise. I support you and when you’re old and invalid I’ll make you a grilled cheese and soup. ❤️ I love who I hope you are.
I think part of the reason it is hard to buy in on stabbing Dany is because they substituted an unconvincing "she's evil and bad" instead of the interesting "she's learned from her experiences with power and is tragically and inevitably at odds with Jon's naivete" that was being set up. In season seven and in the lead up to the final episode in season eight, there should have been a robust and passionate debate which was ongoing and never settled about what to do with King's Landing. It would allow us to see it through the lens of the different character's experiences. Tyrion should want to save the city, based on his love for it and defending it earlier in the series. Dany should want to raze the city, based on her valid experience in Mereen, where showing mercy to those loyal to the old way almost got her and her dragons killed and did get Ser Barristan killed. They should argue the difference between a slave city and a city of free men, with Dany arguing the free men were more responsible for not rising up against Cersei and their loyalties could not be trusted. Jon should be caught between these two, unsure what to think, attracted to Tyrion's point of view based on his views of honor and mercy but also understanding Dany's point of view based on his experience of betrayal and being murdered by disloyal subjects. Seeing the outcome of Dany's sack of King's Landing should tragically cause Jon to snap, and the audience should be left unsure whether he did the right thing as he is himself after the fact. If the writers had portrayed these characters as products of their world views which tragically and inevitably lead them into conflict, instead of ciphers doing things for sudden passionate reasons and stupid reasons, it would have felt much more tragic and fulfilling.
people keep saying everything was great except the writing about the last few seasons. and im like yes ofcourse, because the writing wasnt based on GRRMs work?
Doesn't have to be as good as GRRM, but there's no excuse for just how bad the writing got, in big splotches of season 7 and season 8 was a complete shitshow.
no excuse, these are supposed to be top notch show runners. the finale failed only because of writing. so much credit to all the actors and set people. the visuals this season have been pretty incredible.
I haven't read the books and I didn't like the post book seasons either Edit: you guys didn't talk about the fact that HBO wanted 10 long seasons and double D cut it short so they could do writing for Star wars. Why would a company hire someone who trashes their current project for the sake of another project?
Thecorrectorification Martin said they had enough for 13 seasons. Why would hbo not hire other writers? What gives these goons the rights for full control? If they want to do star wars fine, pass it on to someone dedicated. There are countless writers who would respect and take the show serious
@@Jim26D I'm not fully educated on what happened but I thought it was something contractual like Martin only gave permission for those two guys to do it. Seems like HBO didn't have the power in their hands. I don't actually know what exactly happened though
If you stop questioning why a character did what she or he did because of the "character sheet" and start questioning why writers would not use the same character sheet; then the writers are bad. We used to wonder why someone would be named Hodor for example, and when we find out we're blown away. But when Jaime Lannister goes completely off his track (for example) we don't question Jaime, we question the writers. As soon as you question the writers, the magic is obliterated.
Don't forget that HBO created the HBO GO service to meet the streaming demand specifically for GOT and what really bugs me is that they very purposely milked one season's worth of episodes for over 3 years just so they could keep a big swath of people paying for HBO GO. It drove many older folks to ditch cable and purchase Roku/Amazon Fire etc. And when you consider just this level of industry influence it's beyond belief that they would turn around and hand us a cheesy sitcom that even TH-cam Red would turn down as the final season.
The worst scene in the last episode for me was when Sam started to suggest giving power to the people and I thought "holy shit, they're actually doing it, creating a Democracy, so cool" - but then the characters started laughing, and it almost felt like they laughed directly at us, the fans, who actually gave a shit, theorycrafted, speculated and had genuine interest in anything. It was the final insult and a perfect encapsulation of how awful, shallow and lackluster the ending was and how all the theories we had, all the collective anticipation amounted to absolutely nothing. It was sickening.
I'm happy with what D&D did with series 7 & 8. My only gripe is that they cut the episodes to 13 when 20 would have provided a better context for the passengers of the hate train. Then again, probably not. (Gotta get those TH-cam view$$$)
About the whole George's writing. It is true that for a good work you need time but ten years is probably way too much. After all, the proverb about hitting the iron while it is hot, exists for a reason and if you look at the release dates, the first three books are like 2-3 years apart while feast and dance had a 5 or 6 year gap, and now eight years and still no follow up. Instead we have a faux-history book and other tie in materials, that nobody really asked for. The thing is George wasn't burned out, nor he is slow or lazy, he has this thing called: Worldbuilder's Disease. When an author so caught up in his fictional world, he keeps adding and adding and tweeking, on and on, which interferes with his ability to progress the story, he just can't contain himself anymore, he expands sideways and backwards but not forward. And before anyone would bring up Frank Herbert! Yes, it took seven years to get Dune out BUT he spent the majority of that seven year with researching and he himself said in an interview, that the actual writing did not took that long.
This was an amazing analysis of why so many of us are disappointed with the last few seasons of GoT and the ending in particular. Thanks for posting this!
Next up, Watch our scene by scene recap of episode 6 finale on our 2nd Channel th-cam.com/video/C_KiAH4K1Po/w-d-xo.html
I like your (non)stupid face.
God you are ugly! And the pathetic multi-colored hair, millennial rebellion nonsense, is not a winning visage these days.
Comic Book Girl 19 can you please take all your wolfkin employees back to America now and please punish Grace and all catkins followers for their crimes against your wolfkins and give me some response. You have citizenship in Malaysia as well as in America. Can I talk to you one of these days?
@@chrisprusinowski5287 add (edited) to the name of your blank TH-cam account
Comic Book Girl 19...I know Grace and Elle are fond of calling the hellcat Alexandef Fan mer. That is not its name. I tell them this every year. Fan mer is the name of a wolfgod from the viking religion in the marvel comics. Calling the hellcat Fan mer is like calling Zilla Godzilla. It's disrespectful to the original source material. Arkees book only came out recently. They didnt come out before my group's book. Grace and ellen did not grow up on those books. That is a lie they made to moralisied their crimes. They are betraying their friends at Marvel for Arkee whom they recenrly met.
the final season was a stroke of genius! they made it so bad even illiterate people want to buy the new books.
George RR Martin has been taking his time to release to next book just to wait for this train wreck to play out.
It was a brilliant literacy campaign
That is so logical that I won't try to argue the point
🤣🤣🤣🤣👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏
hahahahahaha!!!
I think the final episode needed more time on Tyrion walking around post apocalyptic King’s Landing. 14 minutes wasn’t enough.
And more time pulling chairs around, don't forget that.
that's what i thought as well.. fucking waste of time
That final episode looked edited AF. It's as if they took a scene from every episode storyboard of the season and crammed them together. Did I overlook this on all the other episodes or amirite?
should of been 3 episodes of the gore and destruction
😂 😂 😂 😂 😂
Fact: HBO wanted 10 seasons 10 episodes each. But D&D only wanted 7 or 8. So it's all on D&D.
even George RR Martin said it could have been 12
I don't get it. Do D and D exclusively own the show? Couldn't they have been left to leave and HBO brought in something else.
That’s cause DnD r Fckn HACKs! And r/were to invested into heading to go Fck up Star Wars...sellouts! 🤦♂️👎
@@marccapobianco1262 bro star wars has been fucked for years, but I don't see these guys fixing the mess??
GET'EMMMMMMMMM!!!
Jaime and Brianne had a one knight stand
Two.
Would be the perfect joke if he hadn't knighted her himself the day before. Come on.
@@IshtarNike Well, he loved her before the fact, so I don't think it matters. I loved it.
Hiyooo!
HAAA!!!
The creators were interested because of things like the Red Wedding, and never cared much for the fantasy elements or many of the characters themselves. As the big twist passed, and the book material ran out, they lost both the motivation and material required to make the show great. So they just wanted it to end, rushing the conclusion. For awhile, they could reasonably conclude nobody cared about the really in depth stuff and rushing was fine. That is until they broke even the most casual of the fan's tolerance for such things, and the backlash hit hard.
Yeah they are much more into spectacle than character development and cohesive plot. It's really unfortunate.
The nuance flew right out of the window and became a typical Hollywood vapid tv series. I think the increasing budget was the doom of the show. The idiot writers felt the need to force the narrative into big costly scenes. The first 4 seasons were the best because of scale and the NEED to fill space with story rather than spectacle.
Totally. You can tell they didnt care even about the red wedding when they changed the jeyne westerling plot into a love story. Completely undermined the core of Robb's character and the detailed way in which tywin utterly fucked him. Or even earlier the house of the undying prophecies. All they cared about was the shock and it's horrible. I'm surprised they even figured out who Jon's mother was seeing how little they pay attention. 😓😔
They rushed before season 5, when they had material from the books. The rest was just boring filler, not rushing to anything.
The steep decline in quality (writing) of the show makes rewatching the show unappealing and recommending the show almost impossible.
It is bizarre that every aspect of the production has remained A Tier, except for the writing, and it just proves that Dumb & Dumber are solely to blame for destroying the shows legacy.
HBO are on record as wanting 10 Seasons of 100 Episodes, yet D&D demanded to end it in 7 Seasons, with the Seventh Season being split in half and turned into 2 Seasons.
The Long Night should have been a Season and Dany's slip into Madness should have been a Season, instead thess two Brainlets decided to compress those two arcs into an Episode each!
That's like compressing all of Robb's Rise and Fall into one Episode, or Jaime's Redemption arc into one Episode, or Ned's story arc into one Episode, or Bran's journey to becoming the Three Eyed Raven into a single Episode!
D&D are the living embodiment of Talentless Hollywood Hack Writers!
Not only would it be like compressing those story arcs into one episode, but then walking back the character development and having them be reset the following episode. God grief this was a disaster season.
The lighting for the night scenes is usually always terrible though. All I can think is what is the director of photography and lighting crew thinking. The long night is the worse lit setpiece I ever saw in a high budget production. Worse
Amen brother. They did the nights king dirty.
I blame Disney too. They have a hand in making those 2 idiots leave early to make Soy Wars movies.
I know right I was looking forward to going threw it again start to finish but really can not bring myself to do it
I liked her guest -- great chemistry on screen, he has a chill vibe that doesn't trample over CBG19 in conversation.
The ending was just rushed and poorly thought out in every single aspect. When you think about it, we literally had 3 villains that were developed for so long that all got killed in anticlimactic, unsatisfactory ways, with Dany being the worst case because they literally just killed her within the first 20 minutes of the last episode. It was lowkey disrespectful to the character and actress (although all the characters got screwed so she isn't alone at least.)
Ahhh man, CBG19, the badass chick that got me into ASOIAF/GoT, she was calling D&D out in 2014 but we didnt want to hear it LoL she was right, unfortunately
Ahhh my God cbg liked my comment. Yayyyyy! Haha you're the true Dragon Queen!! Even if u go "mad" 😂😂
Absolutely man. Can you believe that some idiots still defend this crap.
@@cynicalleviathan3305 honestly, now that it's sinked in a bit I'm truly astonished how badly GoT fell apart. I read the books becuz of cbg19, and fell in love with this incredible world George created, D&D let us down...im not gonna say I wish i never watched it but apart of me feels that it's so disappointing becuz it was so good, it's like they built us up to crash us down...and in the end it was not worth it at all to have the books spoiled to some extent
@@cynicalleviathan3305 and I cant believe anyone that defends that trash, I know it sounds ridiculous but I lost some respect for any friends that thought it was okay, like the friends that are huge fans, I dont get how they could respect that
I actually loved the show until Dany turned in to the Mad Queen and burned down Kings Landing. She was my favorite character except for Tyrion. Then Jon kills her and gets sent to the wall So depressing.And to add insult to injury Bran the Broken becomes the king YUUUUUUUKKK.
George said he gave them enough material to do 12 seasons.
YES! and they just went for Disneyland... GRRM mentioned that Dumb & Dumber wanted to "have a life" and simply DID NOT WANT GoT to go on for so many seasons.... those 2 jews where just greedy for the big Star Wars money.
But, there might be even more hiding behind that show-killing... thinking about feeding the Archons if you know what I mean ;o)
@@comradedangerfield srsly where is antisemiticism here? Jews are known for Jewel crafting and banking skills. What a strange world we are living, where any comparison can be treated as bad intensions. Get a fucking life.
@@TomoStr78 you can't be this fucking dense. Even positive stereotypes can be negative you dunce.
@@InfiniteUmbra in your snowflake perfect world everything have some deep meaning
Yeah 10 atleast ,since Season 7 the seriesfelt rushed to me.
This is the most relatable video ever
lol love your videos
ditto
Love your videos
Huge fan of your videos
Also a huge fan ♥️ of your channel
This show went from smart, political/social drama to stupid, TV-style character melodrama. D&D should've sacrificed a few dollars to bring in some decent writers.
Except they're being told how smart they are by millions of people who huff Dumb and Dumber's chodes, and defend their stupidity every chance they get.
I think it's very likely that David and Dan actually have no clue how bad they suck. All they have to do is look at their bottom line to reaffirm their awesomeness.
Link to a video on theme of How GOT should have ended. (1+ million views within 2 days)I enjoyed it, felt reasonably epic compared to what we've received.
th-cam.com/video/G0mncEl4nVU/w-d-xo.html
Exactly, except for the fact that they’re 2 egotistical Hacks! But well said
Started with Danika allllll the way back in her Epic Targaryen History and happy I stuck with you all this time!
Sam finished a Song of ice and fire before GRRM did.
Darkness1984 🤣🤣, that’s what I told my younger brother when we were watching the last episode.
Sam also finished writing There & Back Again and The Lord of the Rings. Impressive.
Purefoldnz dont forget North and South.
D&D forgot about this little thing that pissed off fans are NOT just spoilt winey babies crying over that it didn’t go they way they wanted
People take time to connect with the characters,they take times out of their lives to just plainly forget about everyday life to relax and just let it go and watch -it helps it heals-with the way they did season 8 was as if they took a hot steaming crap on us all
How dare they rush the biggest show ever on tv like a huge slap in the face for the fans who wanted to feel the satisfaction in the journey it sounds like “ok quickly quickly this finishes like this , like this , let’s pretend that plot isn’t important ok we’re done? Ok now Star Wars “
Your damn right. Screw those guys lol
they must like sitting on faces
They could have least given it competent writers when they decided they didnt want to finish it with 100% effort. 🤦♀️
Nihilism is exactly right. No healthy relationship shows up on screen at the end, every character ends up where they began. Growth is impossible, all personal relationships fall away.
As far as the writing, every major conversation gets cut immediately before it reaches the point. We don't get to see how the Starks feel about R+L=J. Now, at the end, none of those cuts paid off. So it's not like there was a great hidden conspiracy happening offscreen, the writers just couldn't figure out how to write interpersonal dynamics.
The other thing is that the heroes function as antagonists in the narrative. You have a better understanding of the inner workings of the villains. That means when you see the heroes make it through to the ending you don't really understand what they care about. If LOTR ended with shots of the Witch King of Angmar riding off to conquer the world, you wouldn't even know what it means. You would have no framework to understand his values.
Well said!
The way that the dialog cuts before anything is resolved will bug me for years, and probably make a rewatch impossible.
The fact that they played the on-screen plot completely straight, and didn’t deliver on the most emotionally relevant plot points is baffling.
So I assumed they were withholding information a la the ned Stark execution, because they were going to pull off some shenanigans where the Starks have learned to play the game.
I was 100% down for Dany being Ygritte 2.0, Jon feeling like he had to use her for her dragons, and being stuck riding the tiger after the long night. But no, Jon was with her completely out of love, and just happened to have no on screen chemistry. ‘Yur muh kween‘ ...
Beating my head against the wall. So dumb.
I remember so many giving you shit since Season 5 because they believed the show was still awesome. Now you have every right to say “I TOLD YOU”
She deserved it if she said season 5 or 6 was bad because those were great seasons overall.
The Haven Really? Dorne, sand snakes, Sansa marrying Ramsay, Areya in Braavos, Tyrion doing nothing were great? They weren’t complete disasters but had a lot of issues and the writing was already in a downhill since then, people only noticed until this season because it got trendy to hate the show.
Season 5 was appalling. I can't believe people liked it.
@@InfiniteUmbra 5 and 6 sucked both dick and balls.
10 years amounting to nothing in the end.
I remember watching your Epic History series right when you first uploaded it. It was so much fun. Such a meaty, vast lore to dig into.
Makes me want to gag. Too disappointing.
@Anti-Federalist 1776 I believe he will. But I think George will do it differently.
@@iminformedbecauseisawabunc9402 And ya know what? It could even be satisfying and make sense if done competently.
The problem is that "competent" is about as far away from a fitting adjective you can get for this shit.
i have been waiting impatiently to watch you roll your eyes about this.
@G R Why? I will bet anything that Dany turns in to the Mad Queen and gets killed in the books.
Danika, you have been right about the quality of the show through the years. I appreciate your honesty. Thank you.
I remember old school rewinds. You schooled me in the beginning. You have grown professional so much. Thanks so much for staying with it
She did have a major setback though but yes, as they say: "What is dead may never die but comes back Harder, Better, Faster and Stronger"
I can totally understand the Casts tried to defend it because everyone involved in this show were doing their best job but unfortunately D&D betrayed them.
For me tho, it only made want to read the books again so I can look forward to the real story.
the dialogues and conversations were pushed to the side for more action scenes which piss me off
What really irks on top of favoring action instead of politics is how bad the action was executed. The violence become so dramatic compared to any of the sword play of the first season. Nothing this season came close to being as visceral as when jamie and lanisters came to arrest Ned Stark.
And it's even worse because they weren't good action scenes.
Love Captain Picard in the background
He's next in being destroyed.
:)
I just wanted to say, THANK YOU! I found you all those years ago and got to love all these characters with your videos. I remember how you loved the books even before the show started, I remember how your favorite character is Jaime and how you got the Lannister lion tattoo on your arm. I remember your love for this world. Thank you for making this last discussion with us, looking forward to continuing the discussion after the books come out.
I like this co-host. He brings out Danika's cerebral vibes.
"We want endings with meaning." You speak for us all.
Also, in episode 3...Theon made a redeeming, emotional, and honorable death that truly was touching. Then Arya killed the Night King like she was in Space Jam and taking away from that moment. When I say that, I am talking about the SFX of her jumping, not the fact she was the one to get that killing blow.
For me, the Night King isn't the Night King anymore. He is 'Mean Guy Scary Face'. He is the new Darth Maul. They both even have "scary" horns popping out of their heads, great theme songs, and zero character development. He was set up for years and gets turned into ice cubes. I wanted Thanos and ended up getting Steppenwolf. Walter Frey killed more main characters then Mean Guy Scary face.
It was a technical marvel to watch that battle at Winterfell, but I feel cheated because of that ending. And I want to make it very clear of why it was upsetting...Mean Guy Scary Face was a nothing character...I don't care if Arya killed him and Jon wasn't the hero...That storyline turned out to be boring overplayed zombies and now it seems so dumb...
I will never watch the show again after this debacle.
David Bentley the night king isn’t as much of a character as it is a living weapon designed for one thing: wipe out humanity. The army of the dead killed many a soldier, every other character was on it’s last legs, Jon had a dragon to contend with. Berric Dondarion was brought back from the dead countless times for a singular purpose: make sure Arya lives so the Night King can die. I liked it.
@@BartvG88 But the children of the forest said he wanted revenge. Weapons obviously don't want revenge (I didn't mean for that to sound pretentious). His success in battle showed intelligence before 'The Long Night'...After seeing what Daenerys did to Kings Landing The Night King should've attacked where Bran was located in less than a minute.
Also, Jon and Daenerys abandoned the plan early in the battle and the blizzard he made was blinding them...but the Night King has Bran GPS. But instead, he fights 2 dragons...and smiles when the dragon fire doesn't work on him...Weapons smile? Why would he just stare at Bran unless he was reveling in the victory to come with the death of the 3 eyed raven.
Then there were Craster's babies. How does a monster make a deal? Did they talk or did he send a message saying he needed babies?
Yes all the characters were on their last legs...like Sam...he was laying on bodies stabbing the zombies on top of him like he was a bigger version of Jon Snow. But he survives. Almost everyone does. I don't care how many people died. I cared about the actual characters of the show dying...so few did.
Arya killing the Night King looked stupid. It's not because Jon Snow didn't kill him, its because she bounces on a trampoline and does the shitty dagger trick...
I have to stop.
I could go on and on all day . But I am glad you enjoyed it, I wish I felt the same.
David Bentley the night king is arrogant. Sometimes that gets in the way of intelligence.
@@adafuns Agreed. Also, arrogance comes from something that must have character. Something we never saw.
@@DavidBentley23 The Night king had personality, as well as intelligence, but he's not a character in the same way that Tyrion is, for example. That's what I meant. As for some of the characters surviving:
1) while the undead are relentless, they arent the best swordsmen. They don't fight the way trained knights do.
2) The director wanted a shot of all the characters being in danger, seconds from death, to raise the stakes and make the deathblow more exciting. It worked for me, I was like: "Oh man, everyone is completely fucked, how are they gonna get out of this? Come on Bran, do something!"
Shame it didn't work for you. Perhaps you can take solace in the fact that the books are still coming, providing the much needed depth and breathing room in between these events, and perhaps changing things entirely.
I went through the exact same thing as CBG19 with GOT.
I stopped watching after S05. I didn’t watch S06 when it aired, I was hoping for WoW, but when that never materialized and S07 began airing I binged S06 to catch up... at that point I realized that GOT is just a Fun, Action Adventure Fantasy and it got me back on board.... i was excited for S08 and more fun shenanigans. Ep 1 was fine, Ep 2 was really good, Ep 3 they straight up shat the bed... that’s when I knew this is not going to end well... Ep 4 was the episode I realized how much I cared for the story. I really thought I didn’t. Ep 5 was just so painful to watch and Ep 6 was bland. Nothing resonated emotionally it was all just so silly and nonsensical.
This journey mirrors my own almost exactly, only I tried to quit after season4 but my girlfriend dragged me back in.
Arya is going to get scurvy for sure
Whats west of Westeros? Essos the long way around.
ha ha ha well done mate !
@@purefoldnz3070 couldn't Bran have just told her 🤣🤣
I loved most of the plot points of the season, but it was just executed poorly. It should have been 2 seasons (at least). 1 to deal with the night king and 1 to deal with king’s landing/wrap up.
I think Martin has had these downfalls in life and understands the growth in life through pain and then I guess D&D havent have personally experienced this level of shortcomings and lack the experience to see these characters.
Lauri Väisänen There is a danger in what you say; whilst you’re likely correct that part of Martin’s skill is from his personal growth through suffering, it shouldn’t be a prerequisite for a good writer to have gone through such suffering. Russell T Davies believed in the saying, “A moment’s imagination is worth a lifetime of experience”, and I think that’s true. Whilst Martin’s experience contributes to his understanding of his characters, his imagination, though undoubtedly aided by his experience, is ultimately what makes them truly great.
As my consumption of the show is scattershot and of the books is non-existent, take what I say with a grain of salt. But from what other people have told me, I suspect that it’s not that D&D lack the experience to understand these characters; they simply lack the imagination and/or work ethic to do so.
I noticed how the book readers went from being angry to just being empty after the last episode. I felt so hollow for so long after that episode that I even couldn't be mad. It was just so stupid to destroy so many characters, they became so bland. A tragedy
The show was amazing
Music 10/10
Cinematography 9.9/10 (.1 is the night king fight
Acting 10/10
Writing meh/10 when it went past the books
The best battle in the show is pretty much Battle of the Bastards. The shots and style was inspired by Kenth’s Henry the 5th and Orson Welle’s Chimes at Midnight. And the tactic used by the villain if not for Little Finger’s calvary helping Jon was based on the Battle of Cannae
Battle of the Bastards and Winds of Winter were absolutely amazing and ppl keep forgetting those came in season 6.
The Battle of Blackwater was my favorite battle episode. Not because of the action, which was still pretty good overall, but there were plenty of other ones with better action and CGI visuals (because of their increased budget). I liked it the most because it just had some of the best writing and acting in it that made the rest of the battle feel so very grounded and real. Here were a few of those moments:
*The Hound:* _Any man dies with a clean sword, I’ll rape his fucking corpse!_
--------------------
*Bronn:* _Don't get killed._
*Tyrion:* _Nor you, my friend._
*Bronn:* _Oh... are we friends now?_
*Tyrion:* _Of course we are. Just because I pay you for your services doesn't diminish our friendship._
*Bronn:* _Enhances it, really._
*Tyrion:* _Oh, “enhances.” Fancy word for a sellsword._
*Bronn:* _Been spending time with fancy folks._
-------------------
*The Hound:* _I lost half of my men. The Blackwater is on fire._
*Joffrey:* _Dog, I command you to go back out there and fight!_
[The Hound shakes his head.]
*Tyrion:* _You're in the Kingsguard, Clegane. We must beat them back or they're going to take the city... your king's city._
*The Hound:* _Fuck the Kingsguard. Fuck the city. Fuck the king._
[The Hound walks away. Joffrey’s face turns into complete shock and horror.]
-------------------
*Tyrion:* _Don't fight for a king. Don't fight for his kingdoms. Don't fight for honor, don't fight for glory, don't fight for riches, because you won't get any. This is your city Stannis means to sack. That's your gate he's ramming. If he gets in, it will be your house that burns. Your gold he steals, your women he rapes. Those are brave men knocking at our door. Let's go kill them!_
@@jsgoudy that's a really good point. I was really surprised about the winterfell battle. I think they at least tried and they took a risk on the darkness. If that battle was good (and I feel like some things were edited out). If that were good we would be like well they at least can do action scenes. But the did something. With the rest of the season there was nothing done with their characters.
Been waiting for your take, your history videos definitely helped me get into the show more. So sad the writers wanted to subvert all expectations they've been building to
D&D and the actors want to move on. It is what it is.
I went back and rewatched some of your epic history videos; I know that I’m in pain but I think most of us realize that you’re even further into this world than us, for which we extend our love and condolences...
Best guest for the final episode
Gosh, I remember when you did family histories on GOT years ago
For decades I never really understood what a f#@kboy is, then the meme with Brienne writing that in the book in the finale, writing about Jamie- poor Nikolaj's character should've had a better ending, now his arc is weak as hell
Kev B he literally died a fuckboy. I can’t believe I didn’t realize that till now. god damn that just pissed me off all over again.
All these bad stories, like The Last Jedi, are trying to subvert expectations. That's not how stories work. If you ignore foreshadowing and Chekhov's Guns, character arcs and sequential stuff like that it isn't a story. It's just a bunch of random things in a row.
I keep thinking about music. Just about every piece of music ever written ends on either the tonic or the dominant note. For example, if music is written in the key of c the last note will be either a c or an e. There are6 other notes available, and you can certainly subvert my expectations if you use one of them, but it'll probably suck.
Why's Trey's second name/whatever it is blurred out?
Thank you for doing those deep dive vids....they really helped me understand and further enjoy the books & show
As a book reader, show and the books are completely different. Even the earliest seasons changed so much that they are not even close
Trey is great. I would be excited to see him back on future shows.
Hands up who subscribed to CBG19 (& others) because of the TV version of GOT. So many YT channels exploded on the back of GoT.
I think you're going a little easy on George R.R. Martin. Yes, D&D did a poor job of concluding this series, but George R.R. Martin in all likelihood will do an even poorer job of concluding the series, because it looks like the book series won't finish at all The series has ballooned in scope as each subsequent book was released, and I think it got out of hand even for Martin himself. It's been 8 years since the last book was released. By comparison the 4th book in the series was released 9 years after the first book was released. So this is significantly more than a slowdown in Martin's writing. So there's 3 possibilities of what's happening with the books. 1. Martin doesn't know where to go next due to the series get so vast and unwieldy. 2. Martin simply has no interest in finishing the series. He's made a ton of money, he's a 70-year old man. It's been 8 years, let's say he finishes the next book 2 years from now, which I think is optimistic at this point. He's going to write that last book as a man pushing 80? I really doubt that. 3. The series is so unwieldy that the next book is just going to be fucking massive and make it even tougher to write that 7th book.
Like you said, the show took a significant dip in quality after it surpassed the books. I don't think it's fair to expect TV writers to be able to complete a terrific novelist's book series in a satisfactory manner when that series is clearly not even close to being concluded. Yes D&D deserve some blame for taking on the task, but Martin also sold the rights when the series was nowhere near finished, I don't blame him for taking the money, but if you're going to criticize D&D for the predicament of the show, you certainly have to blame Martin for that as well.
You were one of the reasons I got into the show years ago. Before I started reading any of the books, listening to your take on the histories and lore really got me into it. Now here we are in mourning😩😂
Things might have been different had winter actually showed up
Loving the blue hair 👌🏼💙
I think part of the reason it feels gross is that the actions don’t match the tone. And not in a fun way, in a way where they were deaf to what was happening. If I don’t complain that the characters acted out-of-character and take everything at face value...essentially everyone around Danaerys becomes a villain in their own right. Not in a stupid, fire-breathing Hitler way, but in all of the ways that deeply hurt us in our lives: betrayal, lies, selfishness, carelessness, using others, manipulation, etc. And while such characters existed in previous seasons, we had a “good” character on screen for the audience to identify with and be able to judge the bad guys. As long as we can comfortably say that they’re the bad guys in a story, we can also have the freedom to enjoy their evilness as it plays out. Hence why we can appreciate Cersei. If other characters acted like everything Cersei did was fine and never spoke what the audience felt, we’d have been equally confused and upset. By having someone in the show draw that moral line, the audience doesn’t feel up in arms and compelled to be the one to do it - that role is taken care of within the story and we can sit back enjoy the story as it unfolds. The difference here is that there’s no contrast in the last episode. In order for everyone to get where they got and to push Danaerys to where she went, they made every single “good” character into characters disgustingly immoral and absent of any insight. If they wanted to make Dany into more of a tragedy, they could have... but they needed to actually frame Jon or Sansa or Tyrion as a betrayer or bad guy. They don’t do that. They completely put all their chips in the basket of making the audience accept Dany being Mad Queen and needing to get put down, and so they made everyone else good guys who get endings they’re happy with. It’s just all off and it feels gross.
Another thing with that final murder : we all saw it coming. John had little to no real lines for most of the season and John and Danny had very little emotional moments together that bound them together. That killing was quick. It was not sad. It didn't feel like John was sad (as he sat there crying) Within 5 minutes of that death, characters are joking. These are the 2 titular characters of the show, and they were not given enough attention in the last season. Arya should have been killed trying to kill Danny, leading to John making the choice to kill his Mad Queen.
The Bran left field throne grab colors literally every detail after Bran becomes the 3ER as selfish and cruel. And the show says: be happy - Bran will be a good leader cause of stories! And after that he fucks off to track down Drogon instead of discussing the realm. (dont get me started on how the new electoral system actually causes MORE WAR/BACKSTABBING as houses will now be scheming for votes after every king's death )
The final moments are very hollow. The Stark journey is a family torn apart and finally coming together again - stronger, better. And at the end? they each fuck off to be do their own thing. Totally random (Also...greyworm would not have known if John came right back to Kings Landing or to Winterfell. Greyworm and his boys are going to go die in Naath)
Vundal Everything you said plus 1000 other things that have no logic. Seems the writers bought into the idea that characters die and kill for “no reason”. In the books there is always a series of reasons that lead to action. Kind of wild how they made almost every move happen based on short, single sentence conversations and no real substance.
My problem with Martin is not that he's taking too long (I am admittedly annoyed by it, but I get that he want to get it just right), it's that he's distracting himself with other shit. Spin-off books, multiple HBO shows in development, and even games! Finish one thing before you do the rest!
I gotta say, even though I do agree with the general sentiment in this video, I think you guys are entirely too forgiving of George R.R. Martin's contribution to the franchise's problems. While it is true that George created everything good about GoT (obviously), I think it's also fair to say that he took his sprawling style to an extreme that he didn't have to. The books are laden with subplots that add dozens of new characters and impose more complexity and make it harder for the writer to advance the real meat of the plot. Don't take my word for it either, after Clash of Kings, the books drop in quality and increase in the time between books, and this complexity was obviously an imposition on D&D.
To be 100% clear: I am not defending D&D. They could have done a better job than they did, they had that ability with what they had, and they chose to do things in possible the worst fashion possible. All I am saying is that their idiocy compounded real structural problems with the story.
Cook I think you mean Storm of Swords, the third book. After that the gap between books grew and got even more complex. There were so many subplots that the 4th and 5th books cover separate events happening at the same time.
@@paulmartin591 You're right, my bad. It's really been a while for me.
Cook Hey it’s all good I just happen to be re-reading that one now!
No Danika one book shouldn't take 10 years to finish. I don't care how exceptional you are lol. Even if it was 1 page per day it would be over three thousand pages done by now.
D&D kind of forgot how to write.
One of them wrote x men origins wolverine..so half of them never knew how to write to begin with
They fooled the world into thinking that they could write. They were competent at turning the fantastic book material into a good tv series. As soon as they run out of source material they had zero clue about what to do and instead tried to constantly shock people instead of writing a good and fulfilling story.
I guesd they never even knew how to write. Adaptation fantastic but it lagged once material was spent.
C’mon, Dany burninated like a million people. She had to go. How they got there was without grace or tact and maybe that part was “gross” but Jon killing Dany was in no way, shape, or form like Fatal Attractions. Thats like saying maybe Stalin wasn’t so bad.
Teleporting cat!!! Bean rocks!
The first warning began with Stannis Baratheon and how D&D butchered this amazing character. From there on, all characters ended up butchered mercilessly by the show runners. Thanks God, we have the books.
That and Dorne were the biggest fuck ups in my opinion.
Books not done still in 2022….imagine if we knew that in 2013 when we thought he was slightly behind then and complaining lol
They not only ruined this season they actually ruined the re-watching value because what the point when you know how much those characters are destroyed later on. They fucked up big time and all they had to do was take there time. They turned down the 10 seasons so D and D deserve all the flack they get.
This season did destroy every character Jon, Daenerys, Tyrion, Arya, Varys Cersei, Jaime and The Night King.
the problem with daeneris arc was that she was a wise ruler at the beginning then they wrote her as a warmonger. it would have been better if varys attempted to murder her on sansas orders then jon died on the battle, so people killed everything that was good on her. all she has is power and enemies thus the desire to conquer, effectively turning her into a warmonger. then aria would have the perfect motivation to kill her (we all know she was coming with full vengeance towards sansa) but noooooooo lets wrap this quick we have to make spinofs!!
CBG19 I like your guests, but I like you so much more, so I'd rather hear more from you than from them. It seems like some of your guests interrupt you way too much at times, which sucks, because then we don't get to hear your thoughts on the matter. By no means I want to sound disrespectful to your guests (sorry if it comes across this way), I actually like them, but I when click your videos, it's from you that I wanna hear.
This was cathartic. There is so much negative people on the internet especially in social media comments section, that I’ve been reluctant to come to terms how much of a letdown this season was because for fear of being associated with those types of people. This video does a good job of gettin beyond “it sucks” by really breaking down the creative decisions and coming from people who wanted the show to be good.
Oh shit. You both put it into words. I felt hollow and empty and didn’t feel connected to the characters anymore and didn’t know how to explain it. You both explained it perfectly. I appreciate the video. Just going to have to wait for the books for a proper ending. I am patient. I do not mind the wait. George can take as long as he wants.
like how they blurred that dudes name but its still visible
Whose name? Trey Alsup, or someone not named Trey Alsup?
Yeah, I don't know why they did that.
This channel was what got me in to reading ASOIAF. THANKS CBG19!
You do understand that how this story ended came from George, right? If you don't like these endings, then blame George. Maybe D&D didn't get there the best way. But the ending came straight from him.
19:27 My face during all of episode 6
D & D were only fans of the first three books and never believed the show would last post 3/4 seasons, like Roman and Deadwood. They started rushing through content to get to the end season 5 onward. They never intend to include the Ironborn and Dorne plots, and never really did. They cut so much that things felt hollow toward the end.
I want your Kodak looking top. It is amazing. Oh and good show ✊🏽 and totally agree with everything you guys have said
I don't think you can blame it going south on running out of source material. The end of the fifth book the plots were going all over the place. There's definitely a reason RR hasn't published in 8 years, he can't tie it up. They also did a good job of cutting out a lot of BS. Like half of the 4th book was Brienne looking for the Stark girls in the wrong place '\(-__-)/' Also, i think the statement at the end was that the Iron Throne killed Daenerys and that's why Drogon burned it instead of Jon
I also agree with the 4th and 5th books of GRRM...he's gotten all these long winded plots that wind into needless over-complicated places with no satisfying final destination in sight. I for one wasn't a fan of Lady Stoneheart or the "False Dragon" arc. And besides, it was GRRM who picked D&D so he's not totally blameless for how badly the show ended up.
I agree, Drogon was pretty smart
I love that you brought up your early GOT videos. They were amazing and has kept me around since. They were how I got my wife to watch the series.
I was watching the Season 4 premiere where Tywin is melting down Ice to make the two swords, and she kept asking questions like; “who’s that? Why is the sword a big deal, why are you crying?” You know? Silly questions. So I showed her the Targaryen video you created first, then she was hooked after that. Thanks 👍
where can I get that hoodie tho
I was waiting on you sis!!
It's going to be interesting to see what happens when the book series is finished and how disappointed some people will be in the book endings as well.
Yeah but I highly doubt george has been working on a winds of winter for 9 years, and then will end up serving rushed trash just like the series did. I honestly feel like george would rather die with the series unfinished rather than soil it by finishing it in a subpar manner. And that's the main reason people are pissed about the series ending, not because of what happened to certain characters. But because it was executed so poorly.
6:22 I feel that way without being a book reader.
I think it says more about the writers perception of women than anything else, murder the strong female who was too dimensional to do anything with besides murder, then with arya you wonder if they even understood her character, she was already fulfilled a season or two ago, her wanting to have sex made no sense. But god forbid a virgin goes to war,
Dude yes! And what was with that line Sandor said to Sansa at the feast. "I heard you got broken in rough?" Like what in the fuck?...
I’m a book reader. Their stories weren’t “cheated”. For whatever reason, the series was rushed to completion. When the source material was past, D&D pieced together the end based on the broad stokes George gave them. All of the characters had solid conclusions. They just didn’t have the time to spoon feed it to butthurt Monday morning TH-cam quarterbacks.
If this was Martin’s twist: Jon gets “fixed” so the bloodline will end with him and it turns out that Bran cleverly planned to have Danny to go crazy, tricking the Night King by playing bait, and rule the whole country minus the North
Tim Power thank you
Tim Jordan, is that a question? Cause it kinda seems like a bittersweet ending. Which is what George was setting up all along. You need a hug, bud?
Tim Power “Why, I have not another tear to shed” Titus Andronicus
Non of the characters were themselves anymore in season 8. It’s like they all became Three Eyed Ravens.
Agreed, it Def seemed liked they all became very bland this season, there was very much a lack in articulism in the way they interacted with one another this season compared to other seasons....simply put but well said by u 👍
I call for an animated last season with a great voice cast and better decision making process .I nominate Steve Blum btw.
finally!! the only opinion I care about
update I thought you were going to review the episode. I think I am more bummed about this video than I was about the GOT finale
Episode Reviews are on our 2nd channel th-cam.com/video/C_KiAH4K1Po/w-d-xo.html
No answer/resolution to 1. Arya's hit list, 2. Melisande's prophecy about "blue eyes...green eyes", 3. Azor Ahai 4. Cersei's prophecy from the Wood Witch. 5. Jon Snow as the savior of Westeros, Bran's insistence that he will never be kings because he is the Three-Eyed Raven... the list goes on. And we cannot read the books to get the answers because there are no books...yet...
David Wiles cercei was dead before arya could get to her. Of all the Freys (or the waif, or Meryn Trant) had brown and green eyes. The show omitted these profecies. Jon Snow saved Westeros by uniting the North, and bringing Dany with all her might to fight the Night King. Bran said he could never be a LORD... pay attention :)
TV show viewers are finally learning what we, Fantasy readers, known for years... don't start seeing a show based on books OR read books of series that is not finished yet... Wheel of time? Dark Tower? How many years it took them to finish it?
CBG 19 you’ve inspired me to read the books and I’m so happy I did. I never would have without you. I’m also broken hearted that I wasn’t born in a time frame that fate could have brought us together. I’m a dreamer and I recognize my follies but when a fool partakes in his follies for a long time, he sometimes become wise. I support you and when you’re old and invalid I’ll make you a grilled cheese and soup. ❤️ I love who I hope you are.
I think part of the reason it is hard to buy in on stabbing Dany is because they substituted an unconvincing "she's evil and bad" instead of the interesting "she's learned from her experiences with power and is tragically and inevitably at odds with Jon's naivete" that was being set up. In season seven and in the lead up to the final episode in season eight, there should have been a robust and passionate debate which was ongoing and never settled about what to do with King's Landing. It would allow us to see it through the lens of the different character's experiences.
Tyrion should want to save the city, based on his love for it and defending it earlier in the series. Dany should want to raze the city, based on her valid experience in Mereen, where showing mercy to those loyal to the old way almost got her and her dragons killed and did get Ser Barristan killed. They should argue the difference between a slave city and a city of free men, with Dany arguing the free men were more responsible for not rising up against Cersei and their loyalties could not be trusted. Jon should be caught between these two, unsure what to think, attracted to Tyrion's point of view based on his views of honor and mercy but also understanding Dany's point of view based on his experience of betrayal and being murdered by disloyal subjects. Seeing the outcome of Dany's sack of King's Landing should tragically cause Jon to snap, and the audience should be left unsure whether he did the right thing as he is himself after the fact. If the writers had portrayed these characters as products of their world views which tragically and inevitably lead them into conflict, instead of ciphers doing things for sudden passionate reasons and stupid reasons, it would have felt much more tragic and fulfilling.
people keep saying everything was great except the writing about the last few seasons. and im like yes ofcourse, because the writing wasnt based on GRRMs work?
Doesn't have to be as good as GRRM, but there's no excuse for just how bad the writing got, in big splotches of season 7 and season 8 was a complete shitshow.
no excuse, these are supposed to be top notch show runners. the finale failed only because of writing. so much credit to all the actors and set people. the visuals this season have been pretty incredible.
I haven't read the books and I didn't like the post book seasons either
Edit: you guys didn't talk about the fact that HBO wanted 10 long seasons and double D cut it short so they could do writing for Star wars. Why would a company hire someone who trashes their current project for the sake of another project?
Thecorrectorification Martin said they had enough for 13 seasons. Why would hbo not hire other writers? What gives these goons the rights for full control? If they want to do star wars fine, pass it on to someone dedicated. There are countless writers who would respect and take the show serious
@@Jim26D I'm not fully educated on what happened but I thought it was something contractual like Martin only gave permission for those two guys to do it. Seems like HBO didn't have the power in their hands. I don't actually know what exactly happened though
If you stop questioning why a character did what she or he did because of the "character sheet" and start questioning why writers would not use the same character sheet; then the writers are bad. We used to wonder why someone would be named Hodor for example, and when we find out we're blown away. But when Jaime Lannister goes completely off his track (for example) we don't question Jaime, we question the writers. As soon as you question the writers, the magic is obliterated.
Don't forget that HBO created the HBO GO service to meet the streaming demand specifically for GOT and what really bugs me is that they very purposely milked one season's worth of episodes for over 3 years just so they could keep a big swath of people paying for HBO GO. It drove many older folks to ditch cable and purchase Roku/Amazon Fire etc. And when you consider just this level of industry influence it's beyond belief that they would turn around and hand us a cheesy sitcom that even TH-cam Red would turn down as the final season.
LOL 2:21 “plz don’t knock the can over!”
Although, I loved the way it ended, I agree that the last 2 seasons were rushed and could have been executed better.
The worst scene in the last episode for me was when Sam started to suggest giving power to the people and I thought "holy shit, they're actually doing it, creating a Democracy, so cool" - but then the characters started laughing, and it almost felt like they laughed directly at us, the fans, who actually gave a shit, theorycrafted, speculated and had genuine interest in anything. It was the final insult and a perfect encapsulation of how awful, shallow and lackluster the ending was and how all the theories we had, all the collective anticipation amounted to absolutely nothing. It was sickening.
"We thought we had checked out" My thoughts exactly!
I showed the history videos to my mum to help her explain what was going on.
I'm happy with what D&D did with series 7 & 8.
My only gripe is that they cut the episodes to 13 when 20 would have provided a better context for the passengers of the hate train.
Then again, probably not. (Gotta get those TH-cam view$$$)
About the whole George's writing. It is true that for a good work you need time but ten years is probably way too much. After all, the proverb about hitting the iron while it is hot, exists for a reason and if you look at the release dates, the first three books are like 2-3 years apart while feast and dance had a 5 or 6 year gap, and now eight years and still no follow up. Instead we have a faux-history book and other tie in materials, that nobody really asked for.
The thing is George wasn't burned out, nor he is slow or lazy, he has this thing called: Worldbuilder's Disease. When an author so caught up in his fictional world, he keeps adding and adding and tweeking, on and on, which interferes with his ability to progress the story, he just can't contain himself anymore, he expands sideways and backwards but not forward.
And before anyone would bring up Frank Herbert! Yes, it took seven years to get Dune out BUT he spent the majority of that seven year with researching and he himself said in an interview, that the actual writing did not took that long.
This was an amazing analysis of why so many of us are disappointed with the last few seasons of GoT and the ending in particular. Thanks for posting this!
The final season has made me very curious about who ghost-wrote City of Thieves.