Something to add. Boat builders can squeeze a whole extra V12 on the same transom 7's were on. For example, a 42ft CC with 7's would be triples, V12's could do quads. Mercury made sure the minimum requirement for the outboards center to center (crankshaft to crankshaft) distance remained the same as their smaller engines. This allows boat builders to pack more power and that is what those customers want. An extra $80K is nothing to them haha.
It's not even 80k if you're saving 23k an engine. Then to go from 3 7's at 300k (100k each) to 4 mercs at $308k (77k each) its a no brainer. 8k more for 2400hp vs 1800ish plus parts network plus fuel efficiency
I'm a semi driver in Milwaukee. I used to deliver to Seven Marine. That was a cool place. I also deliver to a company that impregnates castings for Mercury. I see the V-8, V-10, and V-12 blocks every week. I'd love to put a marine V-12 in a street rod.
I am a mercury master tech and everything you’ve said is spot on truth. The steerable gearcase allows motors to be mounted closer together making room for additional motor(s). Almost all internal parts like connecting rods are the same part number weather it’s a 6cyl. Or a 12 cyl. Equals less parts on shelves,smaller warehouses etc. just smarter business practice. The 2 speed transmission is a no brained MPH and MPG’s
I absolutely agree I think the mercury outboard with its 2 speed transmission and steerable gear box and just how smooth that v12 is nobody can compete with mercury they are killing it
The V12 Merc absolutely blows the 7 away, however, when Volvo Penta bought in, I fully expected them to utilize the 7 platform to introduce a range of diesel derivatives. I'm still a little baffled as to why they chose to just abandon it all.
Maybe they will just buy Brunswick/Mercury then rebrand the outboard range? Volvo Group - since they also ditched their car division selling it to Ford. Thy know when to get out of a business, they haves very deep pockets and big cash reserves. Seven will just be a small business mistake in Volvo history, although it must have made sense strategically to acquire & in first place. Product was just not good enough or sufficiently developed
@peanuts2105 I work half a mile from Cox Powertrain and its failing hard in the UK. Most of the guys that left my employer to join Cox have been let go. They barely make any engines these days.
Great transfer of info... nice work. I loved the concept of a horizontal 'auto' engine mounted onto a vertical drive shaft. I had believed that using an engine and controllers that any A.S.E. mechanic could wrench on, that could be diagnosed with a simple OBD port reader, and having parts availability as close as the nearest Chevy dealer were all huge benefits. I have to wonder if Seven held any patents that were sold to Volvo in the majority stake purchase. Otherwise, why didn't Volvo just duplicate the process and start manufacturing their own version of a "transaxle" which would be a direct fit to one of their own off-the-shelf (already in production) lower units?
Why did Volvo Penta get involved with Marine 7 in the first place? The engine power flow has to turn 90 degrees twice before it gets to the propeller creating more friction, more weight and less efficient. If I were a big boat owner looking to re-power, I would never get anywhere near this fringe flash in the pan concoction. Where will you get parts for this former brand. You would find it far easier to get parts for the former Evinrude / Johnson brand. Even for outboards they made in the 60s.
Spot on. Claiming political reasons helps substantiate someone’s lack of business acumen and obvious signs of a shift where they got caught flat footed
I just noticed a similar case recently that now I can't actually remember the details of (derp). Anyway, now greenwashed cover stories seem to be getting used where money is the real underlying reason.
@@Sonny_McMacsson Yup. Just like restructuring and telling people they need to move 2 hours away is a way they don't say layoffs, but they get rid of workers. They change the job description/location so that current employees cannot do it anymore.
So when the large outboard powered boat market and large outboard demand was at its all time high the industry has ever seen. Volvo decided to drop Seven because a bigger competitor was supposed to be bringing out a competing outboard in 6 months? May be plausible but not highly plausible IMO. A time when pretty much all outboards were backordered over a year and dealer inventory was being sold before it even came to the dealership. I still think it was completely stupid to axe Seven when they did, even if Merc was coming out with the 600. They could have sold Sevens for awhile after the new Merc came out because the market was that hot for outboards. Even if Seven was not their first choice a lot of people ended up getting their second or third choice in outboards just because it was available.
It's hard to keep secrets in the marine industry; hang out on hull truth or scream and fly and you'll see leaks happen before they go public. People talk.
No profit in selling the 7. It was a bad business decision from the start. They had to have known that Merc was developing their new engine. Also, they should have known Merc would build it in-house. A little basic financial analysis would have told Volvo it was not a good idea to purchase the 7.
@@kokomo9764 What was their margin per outboard on the 627, since you talk like you know? A very large company like Volvo Penta doesn't buy a company without looking at the financials. There is something they wanted from Seven. I have no doubt VP probably knew about the Merc 600 a year or maybe more before it came out. That still doesn't change the fact that the industry was in a boom. They could have sold outboards through most of that boom. IMO VP dropping Seven was mostly due to several factors.
That makes more sense than anything I’ve heard up until now. I was shocked when I heard they were closing it down and nothing I was hearing was making sense.
I have owned a few different outboards in my life and have experience working with more, and I can tell you if you are looking for a complete package of performance, reliability, and good looks, Mercury is the best, hands down. In the midrange, the ProXS is a monster.
Interesting outlook. Im a merc fan and didnt like the 7 Marine engines and i have never been a fan of Volvo either and one thing i seriously dont like are the IPS drives. My personal take on the points made in this video are, Volvo has a huge sales and service network globally, so servicing and repairs etc wouldnt be the issue, Lesser new brands have made their mark in recent yrs and are selling well with way less of a footprint Volvo has. They also have a huge industrial capacity so for them to licence or in time make up their own components while as improving the outboards over time would have been a better way to go and keep 7 marine going. I think they real reason they killed it was because unlike with the big 4 Merc, Suzuki, Yamaha and Honda up to a point, where they cant compete from a entrenched position that these brands have, I think they mostly saw a real threat coming from huge block outboards to their IPS drives and sought to kill off the one brand they could afford to kill off. I could be totally wrong on this point but its not completely far fetched.
Agree totally. Lost my ass on DPX drives on my triple off shore boat in 2001 when Volvo pulled out of the offshore racing line up. Sucks when the customer wants the best but gets stuck with the rest
I didn’t even know they made offshore racing drives. Thanks for the comment, another rabbit hole to learn about. I should do a video just on weird stern drives
Mercury dominated the Market when they took out 2 large outboard makers such as Evinrude and now with this explanation, 7 marine. Could you imagine building a v12 e tec to counter the merc 600? I'd love to see the comparison of power to weight ratio as well as fuel economy. Also the torque of a DI 2 stroke vs a 4 stroke. That would have been a sight to see...
They’re monopolizing the market and the sad thing is they don’t seem to care about making anything attainable to the working class anymore. They’ve basically given up on lake/inland performance and are 100% focused on salt water stuff or fishing boats. I miss the 80s and 90s. :/
I'm still pissed that they never offered one of those sexy beasts in a tiller configuration so I could hang one off the back of my old Alumacraft! I think it would have been a very nice little upgrade from the old Johnson 20 I have on it now.
The company i used to work for was designing a turbine engine outboard motor. Had over 800hp, efficient at full throttle, and lightweight. Cost about 80-90k. However, couldn't get enough funding. Had to scrap it
I think you made a really insightful and compelling argument. I always find it amusing when people blame political figures (from either side), even when those political figures have nothing directly, or indirectly to do with the subject. They just like to blame their convenient boogey-man instead of bothering to research the whole matter. Secondly, and pretending for a moment that Volvo-Penta was making the decision for "environmental" reasons, that would still only be because their marketing department's research suggested it was more profitable (again, just pretending). It's like it never occurs to the opponents of such decisions that they may be out numbered and manufacturers want to produce what they can sell the most of. So, in that sense, it could easily be both reasons. It could very well be that in addition to being outclassed in the giant outboard segment, Volvo-Penta also realized that the rest of the market is moving the other way, and it wasn't worth fighting for just that segment. For example, it's no surprise that so many auto manufacturers already had EV's through R&D, and in the works long before any official legislation or policy changes. They saw what MORE (certainly not all, just more), folks wanted and were already getting ready.✌
Dude blaming everything on Obama/Trump/Biden annoys the F out of me. Just shut the fuck up. Yet somehow if you google what happened to seven marine, Offshore Only's stupid dog whistle blaming Biden is the #1 result. BIDEN WASN'T EVEN IN OFFICE YET. Honestly pissed me off enough to make this video lol. Check out some of my other vids when you get the chance, cheers!
Volvo also used their power over seven to utilize there excess stock of ls motors to bolster their I/o business. They currently use all ls motors behind their drives.
@@fuzzjunky Yes it uses 100hp to make extra 300hp, so the engine eats 400hp worth of extra fuel with the supercharger mounted. The supercharger pumps something like 200 liter air per second, running the supercharger is not free. The mercury V12 does not need all the tricks Seven Marine needs, because it is designed from the ground up as an outboard.
@@larsjrgensen5975 you're talking nonsense man. or they would just remove the blower because it literally does nothing. they wouldn't spend thousands of dollars on a peripheral which produces a negative result. superchargers profit horsepower or they simply wouldn't use them. what they COST is fuel usage.
@@fuzzjunky The super charger uses 100hp to boost the engine. The 430 hp engine (without supercharger) now makes 730hp thanks to the supercharger, but running the supercharger costs 100hp, so the end result is 630hp, but the fuel needed for the engine is still 730hp worth of fuel. I can see that we agree on the fuel usage and that was my primary point of the post, the Seven marine could use more fuel then a Mercury V12.
@@larsjrgensen5975 yeh that sounds accurate. i think the overall shape and purpose built nature of the mercury is where it's at though. the upright shape is very suitable including transmission style
It’s crazy to me that other people that either 1. Just read a press release or 2. Blame a politician who wasn’t even sworn in yet get like hundreds of thousands of views and clicks for being wrong/misleading/spouting bullshit.
@@steveturner5287Rather have boring and reliable over a Mercury any day of the week. See enough problems with Mercury outboards and their over complicated rigging on a daily basis at work.
Being bought by volvo, with all their manufacturing might, could have easily redesigned a new gearbox and manufactured it in house for the 7. So I doubt potential supplier gouging was a worry. The LS is also an amazing platform that would have allowed a huge aftermarket, you could have had 1200hp outboards easily. Imagine a single 1200hp instead of dual 600s? And the LS block easily has the potential to do that
@@ADDvancedi dont think i am, again, its VOLVO, an international manufacturing powerhouse, and theyre replicating an existing ZF gearbox. Should be able to spend a month designing and a month of tooling setup. Should have been a cakewalk to design a 750hp version and wipe out mercurys 600.
@@troydejesu9245 I worked at Mercury for 8 years in the design and engineering department. Even if they were allowed to copy and paste the design, with no development, the cost of the tooling required to make those parts would be millions and millions and millions, especially if diecast. Then you start looking at how many engines they would plan on selling per year, and you realize why they didn't do this. The sales volumes are so small it would never even pay off the tooling required, let alone make a profit.
How does the 500 that was recently announced fit into all of this? Are you following the Howe2Live upgrade to the 500 and their attempt to have breakfast in NYC and dinner and Miami?
500R is for go fast boats. The 7 marine and this Merc v12 are for huge/heavy/luxury boats. 500R is for cats and really performance oriented stuff. Or idiots who put them on pontoons. Nah, I don't really follow people with unlimited bank accounts; I can't really relate to them at all. Rather keep it real with people who build things.
@@sdvtenThe 500R is supposed to be a 450R without all the issues that plague the 450R. Guys at work did a repower on a Nortech. Took off quad 450Rs and put on 500Rs. We'll see how it holds up.
Benefit of using of the shelf components is that they proven to realiable. All the components of the seven marines are from well know brands. Suzuki outboard 300hp comes with a duo prop gearcase setup wich for the first couple years they had to deal with not usable engines cause the gearcase would break. Seven marine made no mistakes making a realiable product for a new market high performance outboards and selling before the big competition Yamaha/Mercury turned up with a alternatieve
I'm going to have to disagree because 7 marine had a platform that you can expand the horsepower and torque without having to change too much. With a super charger pulley change and a tune you can add another 100 horsepower. With a cam change you can add another hundred horsepower. .. This was a big mistake. The aftermarket tuners would have turned this into a racing platform that no other company can Match..
Neither one of these engines is very well suited for racing. Boats need special high speed drives when you get up around 75mph; anything else and you just blow out the water before the prop can grab it. There is nothing like that available for the Seven Marine or the V12 Merc. They aren't race engines.
People do this all the time in aviation, and many get themselves killed. I’m all about advancing tech, but if it were so simple to cram a corvette engine into an aircraft vs a clunky old air cooled….I’m guessing it’d have been done long ago. I’m guessing this went the way of aircraft swaps…engines designed to rub one way (lugging along in overdrive) , vs another designed to run another way (100% in aircraft). The gear reductions in planes have been a big failure point. Now if these engines have been running reliably in the field with minimal warranty claims, then the Merc hypothesis sounds pretty good to me.
The simplest answer is usually the correct one. I have never heard of this "7" outboard, not that it means anything. I remember when a 100 hp outboard was considered impressive.
Yup, I remember as a kid when a beach neighbour turned up with a 300HP Merc on his 21ft Haines (NZ boat). The damn thing would do 60mph across the water, way faster than anything else around at the time. The motor was also vastly bigger than anything I'd seen before! my Dads boat had a 20 horse Chrysler! I was a little embarrassed...
Sounds plausible to me. As I understood it boat hauls and transoms had to be re engineered for 7 Marine. All of the adds I remember for them included Intrepid so I would assume they where their largest customer. Merc being cheaper and larger CI with 2 speed trans for low end torque may have set the stage for Intrepid. Volvo knows when to cut their losses. I am going to point to one other possibility. The possibility of upgrading to the V12 from other engines on more standard transoms would give Merc the advantage in that aspect also. That is if my assumptions and memory of the requirements are correct.
I think time will show that all of these larger, heavier outboards will be placing too much strain on transoms, compared to inboards that are bolted along the horizontal surfaces., spearing the load. Weight distribution with multiple installations must be a real hull design challenge for architects. It’s notable that the class one racers are all staying onboard twins. These engines seem to have most appeal to the Miami quin ‘look at me’ open bow riders crowds. Although I do think that the new Verado 500r hits a sweet spots for sports boats in twin installations. BTW Volvo actually have a bigger global network than does Mercury, given there lions share of the large performance diesel inboard and commercial markets.
@@gaycha6589 I don't believe that. There are literally thousands of Merc dealerships along rivers across the country that specialize in smaller outboards. VP is mainly sterndrive, so only on large bodies of water, none on smaller lakes and rivers.
@@ADDvanced USA is not the world Majority or Merc dealers are in US. Volvo are far better distributed and serviced globally. I am in Europe - Volvo, being Swedish, are for better represented for service both here and in APAC. Volvo also makes a very diverse range of marine engines beyond sterndrive installations - their breadth and depth of engineering exceed that of Mercury, who don't even manufacture but rebadge their entire 60hp range. Volvo Group (including trucks) turnover was $48 Bn last year and they have been in business since 1929. Brunswick Marine who own Mercury have a turnover of just $5.8 bn, Mercury contribute $26bn of that. They are therefore tiny in global terms, Volvo could buy them tomorrow. Lecture over 🙂To the point, the 7 Marine acquisition was a strike on the balance sheet for Volvo to enter the large outboard segment by acquistion. Trouble is that they really only acquired an integrator, since Seven only bough bits in with no intellectual property, and a flawed product.
@@gaycha6589 Totally bro that's why they win so many races because they make such great stuff. Oh wait. They don't win any races. Cuz they got nothing.
@embustero71 , I don't know? Generally aren't they modified designs though? If you want to run an engine continuously at high RPM you build it to do so. Different valve train components, pistons, might shorten up the stroke length, etc. Pulling an off the shelf car engine and tossing it on the back of a boat seems like a harsh use case for it with oem components.
@@getinthespace7715 Seems like you're relying of the assumption that they just picked a random thing without actually considering if the specifications for the application were suitable.
@@getinthespace7715 Questions have premises that prompt them. Companies do stupid things but since they were experienced engineers in the field, I'll assume for now that they did their due diligence.
Thanks, sick of channels where people just talk a lot without knowing anything blaming politicians, it's so dumb. The most popular video til this one was one giant "thanks obama". Get out of here lol
This is a classic play by corporations; buy the competition and years later dissolve the company they bought. It should be illegal, but we don't have consumer protections, so they can do what they want.
These monster outboards just don't make any sense to me. You can have a hybrid system where the props are electric and have a motor mounted anywhere convenient spinning a generator providing the power for the prop motors. The whole thing can be setup with a lower CG, or even put the gas motors in the front, how about a four I6's along the sides, totally frees up the packaging, which is the hard part of outboards.
@@ADDvanced great, then put the gas motors even further back than the props, as a hybrid there is only 3 wires that need to connect to the prop. I would think having the gas motors sitting up so high above is not good, but maybe you will tell that is best to make the point straight up...I know my old hydrostream would reach for the sky.
@csrboltfan2643 opinion from facts. The ls based engine is very reliable. The later model verados are not very reliable. Cam tower bolts snapping off, destroying power heads, connecting rod bolts stretching / breaking, causing catastrophic powerhead failure as well.
@@CaptainDayne What head-to-head comparative data sheet did you gather YOUR "facts" from? Considering Mercury outsells 7 about 10,000/1 (my opinion), the numbers are naturally going to reflect a higher failure of Mercs vs 7. Again, your post was simply an opinion based on NOTHING.
@CaptainDayne I've delt with them. One of the biggest flaws with Seven is the cowlings. They are horrible and did not protect the engine from getting splashed with salt water. All that engineering for a $90k outboard engine and then they quit at the finish line.
The founder of 7 Marine was one of the main engineers at Mercury. He left because Mercury didn't want to go big....then they did. Remember US Marine? Same story.
Should fit two of them on there... Just make sure you move your fuel tanks all the way to the front. And maybe add a couple more gas tanks too, all those horses get real thirsty!
@@timothyhusketh3606 Could you pick me up one too while you're at it? I want to adapt one to a tiller configuration so i can run it on my trusty old 16ft "Deep V" Alumacraft. I wonder if anyone makes a kit for that? Be a nice little upgrade from the 1968 Johnson 20 on it now... I'll show all them hotroddin bass boaters how its done. Even though it takes me twice as long as the semi-pro fisheman wannabes to get up river to the best spots, they don't catch any more fish than I do. Im no engineer but, i figure one of Seven's v8 monsters hung on the back of my super lightweight & bare bones aluminum boat ought to get me on plane in about no seconds flat, pretty close to a sci-fi warp drive. Sure, my entire truck, trailer and boat probably worth ten grand total. So I know could add a $100k motor and still have one of the cheapest setups on the water. I don't know why I enjoy it so much, but nothing gives me joy like out-fishing rich people. I'd tell them exactly how I do it too if they'd ask. Instead theyd rather peep through thousand dollar binoculars every time I grab the net... Whatever floats their shiny new fiberglass bass boats i guess. But i was someone who's $$$ exotic custom crafted rods don't outfish my kmart uglystick, and whos state of the art 3d sideband imaging fully integrated marine electronics suite cost more by itself than i've spent on fishing this past decade, Id maybe feel a tad foolish, wonder if i got ripped off by my dealership guy. But then id still be curious, so maybe the next pass I troll by a little too close "on accident" and after apologizing of course hopefully be able start up a conversation, shoot the shit, and hopefully figure out what this silly local is doing right? So I realize to them I might look like a redneck, and Im fine with that assessment, but like everyone, im alot more than that label too. But do these city slickers think they're better than me? like for real? I sure hope not, but i cant tell for certain. Or are they just scared of rednecks because of stupid culture war bullshit the leftist media filled their heads with and they don't know no better? Christ, were both trying to catch the same damn fish, smallmouth and walleye. so we cant be that different!
Yes and no. I've only seen a 7 Marine outboard twice so far. Haven't heard anything terrible about them but they are not prevalent here in the Gulf Coast. Mercury on the hand, they are plagued with problems. They do good things with their outboards but their quality is slipping.
@@sdvten I have read several books about Kiekhafer, know his history well, too include his time at Evinrude. They were so far behind Merc and Yamaha and brought Ficht to market untested and it drove them into bankruptcy at the cost of a few lives and producing out of spec Garbage, I challenge you to dispute Truth…
no way a company pulls the plug on a viable product before a competitor brings a new product to market. Mercury probably spent $100m + on tooling for the v12 let alone the drive unit and transmission. Funny how a start-up can revolutionize an industry... Maybe Mercury was asleep at the wheel... Yamaha is still asleep at the wheel... If you look at Volvo and study their global production of engines/units including their construction equipment... the Euros are full swing into carbon neutrality. You don't thing they would have added inboard pod technology to the outboard (they had it before anyone) and they specialize in diesel engines. IF Seven Marine owners weren't bought out by Volvo, they would have continued to innovate and lead the market.
Imagine you're an engine company and this new guy comes along and takes like 1-3% of the market. Thats an enormous loss for every other company. Fucking get rid of it.
I can't fault your reasoning behind shutting down 7 Marine, but I'm yet to understand why Volvo bought it in the first place. It was never a market segment that Volvo competed in and it's not like boat builders were going to swap to a Volvo sterndrive, on boats built around outboards.
Honestly the 7 Marine engines were more attractive due to the fact it was built with off the shelf parts that already existed and not much, if anything was proprietary meaning guys with knowledge on you to work on car engines can work on the 7 and save so much money in the long run.
Sounds like someone at Volvo Penta made a terrible business decision. One would think a large company like Volvo Penta would have done the financial math before buying a controlling share.
Disagree. I worked for HCB Yachts during that timeframe. The Seven Marine Engine was junk. Lots of problems right out of the box. Yamahas and Mercs much more reliable, and that matters in bluewater.
Well the president of Volvo Penta Helene Mellquist didn't like the gas guzzling Seven Marine that's why they cancelled production and that probably pure luck because at that time they didn't have a clue about Mercury's 600. So yes it was due to that Mellquist didn't like it and blamed environment as a reason they canceled it
Change of management at Volvo Penta between the time of the purchase and the shutdown. The purchase, when you look at it, does not look consistent with the range, nor the promise, nor the focus of Penta…even at the time of the purchase. Not sure what has happened there. Closing a brand, factory is a cost, I guess something have been repurposed for the North American in-board petrol engine line up.
@@ADDvancedWrong again. 1. Ole Evinrude, the inventor of the outboard engine was Norwegian. 2. The world water speed record is held by Spirit of Australia. Go eat more processed food!
@@gaycha6589 Because they're a commodity product, there's not much profit in them. Even they did something innovative/improved it, other manufacturers in china would just rip it off. Same problem with Briggs/Stratton, small engines just can't be sold for much. What small outboards does Volvo Penta make? Oh, right, none whatsoever.
Doesn’t hold water. They were using decade old technology. The seven marine engine was more of a proof of concept. Had they invested in the idea it could have kept going. Volvo obsessed with in boards not outboards. Also they love diesel.
Something to add. Boat builders can squeeze a whole extra V12 on the same transom 7's were on. For example, a 42ft CC with 7's would be triples, V12's could do quads. Mercury made sure the minimum requirement for the outboards center to center (crankshaft to crankshaft) distance remained the same as their smaller engines. This allows boat builders to pack more power and that is what those customers want. An extra $80K is nothing to them haha.
It's not even 80k if you're saving 23k an engine. Then to go from 3 7's at 300k (100k each) to 4 mercs at $308k (77k each) its a no brainer. 8k more for 2400hp vs 1800ish plus parts network plus fuel efficiency
Agreed. Mercury put a stake into 7’s heart, and Volvo was left holding the bag.
I'm a semi driver in Milwaukee. I used to deliver to Seven Marine. That was a cool place.
I also deliver to a company that impregnates castings for Mercury. I see the V-8, V-10, and V-12 blocks every week. I'd love to put a marine V-12 in a street rod.
I am a mercury master tech and everything you’ve said is spot on truth. The steerable gearcase allows motors to be mounted closer together making room for additional motor(s). Almost all internal parts like connecting rods are the same part number weather it’s a 6cyl. Or a 12 cyl. Equals less parts on shelves,smaller warehouses etc. just smarter business practice. The 2 speed transmission is a no brained MPH and MPG’s
Completely outclassed. And more expensive. Who would buy one?
I absolutely agree I think the mercury outboard with its 2 speed transmission and steerable gear box and just how smooth that v12 is nobody can compete with mercury they are killing it
The V12 Merc absolutely blows the 7 away, however, when Volvo Penta bought in, I fully expected them to utilize the 7 platform to introduce a range of diesel derivatives. I'm still a little baffled as to why they chose to just abandon it all.
Cox diesel engines seem to have taken that crown
So what speed difference and GPH difference did you see with the Seven outboards on your boat vs the 600 Mercs on your boat?
Maybe they will just buy Brunswick/Mercury then rebrand the outboard range? Volvo Group - since they also ditched their car division selling it to Ford. Thy know when to get out of a business, they haves very deep pockets and big cash reserves.
Seven will just be a small business mistake in Volvo history, although it must have made sense strategically to acquire & in first place. Product was just not good enough or sufficiently developed
@@peanuts2105at a ridiculous price point
@peanuts2105 I work half a mile from Cox Powertrain and its failing hard in the UK. Most of the guys that left my employer to join Cox have been let go. They barely make any engines these days.
Truth brother!!!! You can't go against Mercury..Great commentary..Loved your one on Mercury Racing too
Thanks broseph 🤙
VP i a lot bigger than Mercury
Great transfer of info... nice work.
I loved the concept of a horizontal 'auto' engine mounted onto a vertical drive shaft. I had believed that using an engine and controllers that any A.S.E. mechanic could wrench on, that could be diagnosed with a simple OBD port reader, and having parts availability as close as the nearest Chevy dealer were all huge benefits. I have to wonder if Seven held any patents that were sold to Volvo in the majority stake purchase. Otherwise, why didn't Volvo just duplicate the process and start manufacturing their own version of a "transaxle" which would be a direct fit to one of their own off-the-shelf (already in production) lower units?
Why did Volvo Penta get involved with Marine 7 in the first place? The engine power flow has to turn 90 degrees twice before it gets to the propeller creating more friction, more weight and less efficient. If I were a big boat owner looking to re-power, I would never get anywhere near this fringe flash in the pan concoction. Where will you get parts for this former brand. You would find it far easier to get parts for the former Evinrude / Johnson brand. Even for outboards they made in the 60s.
Spot on. Claiming political reasons helps substantiate someone’s lack of business acumen and obvious signs of a shift where they got caught flat footed
I honestly don't get how people who just talk about stuff they don't understand get so many followers.
I just noticed a similar case recently that now I can't actually remember the details of (derp). Anyway, now greenwashed cover stories seem to be getting used where money is the real underlying reason.
@@Sonny_McMacsson Yup. Just like restructuring and telling people they need to move 2 hours away is a way they don't say layoffs, but they get rid of workers.
They change the job description/location so that current employees cannot do it anymore.
Interesting. Great video man. I still prefer a two-smoke screaming ape myself.
Depends on the boat, but in general yeah the 2 strokes are more visceral on the senses.
So when the large outboard powered boat market and large outboard demand was at its all time high the industry has ever seen. Volvo decided to drop Seven because a bigger competitor was supposed to be bringing out a competing outboard in 6 months? May be plausible but not highly plausible IMO. A time when pretty much all outboards were backordered over a year and dealer inventory was being sold before it even came to the dealership. I still think it was completely stupid to axe Seven when they did, even if Merc was coming out with the 600. They could have sold Sevens for awhile after the new Merc came out because the market was that hot for outboards. Even if Seven was not their first choice a lot of people ended up getting their second or third choice in outboards just because it was available.
It's hard to keep secrets in the marine industry; hang out on hull truth or scream and fly and you'll see leaks happen before they go public. People talk.
No profit in selling the 7. It was a bad business decision from the start. They had to have known that Merc was developing their new engine. Also, they should have known Merc would build it in-house. A little basic financial analysis would have told Volvo it was not a good idea to purchase the 7.
@@kokomo9764 What was their margin per outboard on the 627, since you talk like you know? A very large company like Volvo Penta doesn't buy a company without looking at the financials. There is something they wanted from Seven. I have no doubt VP probably knew about the Merc 600 a year or maybe more before it came out. That still doesn't change the fact that the industry was in a boom. They could have sold outboards through most of that boom. IMO VP dropping Seven was mostly due to several factors.
What I find interesting, is that someone would pay $100,000 for a boat motor.
Big bank account, small brain
How true , when I was in the boat buss. I thought people would stop buying outboards when they went to $15,000
That works out to $20,000 per fish caught
@@scomo532 Their brain is what got them their big bucks, your brain bestowed your above comment on us. See the difference?
@@MovieMuscle Your brain must be like your handle…..a muscle
I use to work at intrepid n 7marine used intrepid as their first customer they liked what intrepid was doing as innovators in the boating industry
That makes more sense than anything I’ve heard up until now. I was shocked when I heard they were closing it down and nothing I was hearing was making sense.
I have owned a few different outboards in my life and have experience working with more, and I can tell you if you are looking for a complete package of performance, reliability, and good looks, Mercury is the best, hands down. In the midrange, the ProXS is a monster.
They look amazing
yeah they did.@@ADDvanced
Yamaha
As far as looks Mercs still can't touch the Evinrude E-Tec
If it’s also made in Wisconsin like the seven, that sounds like a great deal!
Interesting outlook. Im a merc fan and didnt like the 7 Marine engines and i have never been a fan of Volvo either and one thing i seriously dont like are the IPS drives. My personal take on the points made in this video are, Volvo has a huge sales and service network globally, so servicing and repairs etc wouldnt be the issue, Lesser new brands have made their mark in recent yrs and are selling well with way less of a footprint Volvo has. They also have a huge industrial capacity so for them to licence or in time make up their own components while as improving the outboards over time would have been a better way to go and keep 7 marine going. I think they real reason they killed it was because unlike with the big 4 Merc, Suzuki, Yamaha and Honda up to a point, where they cant compete from a entrenched position that these brands have, I think they mostly saw a real threat coming from huge block outboards to their IPS drives and sought to kill off the one brand they could afford to kill off. I could be totally wrong on this point but its not completely far fetched.
Agree totally. Lost my ass on DPX drives on my triple off shore boat in 2001 when Volvo pulled out of the offshore racing line up. Sucks when the customer wants the best but gets stuck with the rest
I didn’t even know they made offshore racing drives. Thanks for the comment, another rabbit hole to learn about. I should do a video just on weird stern drives
Mercury dominated the Market when they took out 2 large outboard makers such as Evinrude and now with this explanation, 7 marine. Could you imagine building a v12 e tec to counter the merc 600? I'd love to see the comparison of power to weight ratio as well as fuel economy. Also the torque of a DI 2 stroke vs a 4 stroke. That would have been a sight to see...
They’re monopolizing the market and the sad thing is they don’t seem to care about making anything attainable to the working class anymore. They’ve basically given up on lake/inland performance and are 100% focused on salt water stuff or fishing boats. I miss the 80s and 90s. :/
It’s crazy the mark up on these. Entire power trains for like 30k
Makes sense, no comparison between the two
I'm still pissed that they never offered one of those sexy beasts in a tiller configuration so I could hang one off the back of my old Alumacraft! I think it would have been a very nice little upgrade from the old Johnson 20 I have on it now.
The company i used to work for was designing a turbine engine outboard motor. Had over 800hp, efficient at full throttle, and lightweight. Cost about 80-90k. However, couldn't get enough funding. Had to scrap it
what was the company called? sounds interesting. one small firm made small jet-turbine powerheads in the 1960's!
I think you made a really insightful and compelling argument. I always find it amusing when people blame political figures (from either side), even when those political figures have nothing directly, or indirectly to do with the subject. They just like to blame their convenient boogey-man instead of bothering to research the whole matter. Secondly, and pretending for a moment that Volvo-Penta was making the decision for "environmental" reasons, that would still only be because their marketing department's research suggested it was more profitable (again, just pretending). It's like it never occurs to the opponents of such decisions that they may be out numbered and manufacturers want to produce what they can sell the most of. So, in that sense, it could easily be both reasons. It could very well be that in addition to being outclassed in the giant outboard segment, Volvo-Penta also realized that the rest of the market is moving the other way, and it wasn't worth fighting for just that segment. For example, it's no surprise that so many auto manufacturers already had EV's through R&D, and in the works long before any official legislation or policy changes. They saw what MORE (certainly not all, just more), folks wanted and were already getting ready.✌
Dude blaming everything on Obama/Trump/Biden annoys the F out of me. Just shut the fuck up. Yet somehow if you google what happened to seven marine, Offshore Only's stupid dog whistle blaming Biden is the #1 result. BIDEN WASN'T EVEN IN OFFICE YET. Honestly pissed me off enough to make this video lol. Check out some of my other vids when you get the chance, cheers!
Volvo also used their power over seven to utilize there excess stock of ls motors to bolster their I/o business. They currently use all ls motors behind their drives.
I am guessing that the seven marine supercharger would eat up 10-100hp depending on engine speed, that also needs fueling.
i'm thinking it would produce horsepower. that's why it's there
@@fuzzjunky Yes it uses 100hp to make extra 300hp, so the engine eats 400hp worth of extra fuel with the supercharger mounted.
The supercharger pumps something like 200 liter air per second, running the supercharger is not free.
The mercury V12 does not need all the tricks Seven Marine needs, because it is designed from the ground up as an outboard.
@@larsjrgensen5975 you're talking nonsense man. or they would just remove the blower because it literally does nothing. they wouldn't spend thousands of dollars on a peripheral which produces a negative result. superchargers profit horsepower or they simply wouldn't use them. what they COST is fuel usage.
@@fuzzjunky The super charger uses 100hp to boost the engine.
The 430 hp engine (without supercharger) now makes 730hp thanks to the supercharger, but running the supercharger costs 100hp, so the end result is 630hp, but the fuel needed for the engine is still 730hp worth of fuel.
I can see that we agree on the fuel usage and that was my primary point of the post, the Seven marine could use more fuel then a Mercury V12.
@@larsjrgensen5975 yeh that sounds accurate. i think the overall shape and purpose built nature of the mercury is where it's at though. the upright shape is very suitable including transmission style
Spot on brother!! As a certified mercury tech I may be biased lol. Great video Rob!
It’s crazy to me that other people that either 1. Just read a press release or 2. Blame a politician who wasn’t even sworn in yet get like hundreds of thousands of views and clicks for being wrong/misleading/spouting bullshit.
@@ADDvanced right. You nailed it Mercurys way ahead of everything else. What’s left maybe reliable but boring 🤷🏻♂️
@@steveturner5287Rather have boring and reliable over a Mercury any day of the week. See enough problems with Mercury outboards and their over complicated rigging on a daily basis at work.
Your analysis makes perfect sense... 👍👏😻
Being bought by volvo, with all their manufacturing might, could have easily redesigned a new gearbox and manufactured it in house for the 7. So I doubt potential supplier gouging was a worry. The LS is also an amazing platform that would have allowed a huge aftermarket, you could have had 1200hp outboards easily. Imagine a single 1200hp instead of dual 600s? And the LS block easily has the potential to do that
I think you're underestimating the capital required to develop a transmission like that.
@@ADDvancedi dont think i am, again, its VOLVO, an international manufacturing powerhouse, and theyre replicating an existing ZF gearbox. Should be able to spend a month designing and a month of tooling setup. Should have been a cakewalk to design a 750hp version and wipe out mercurys 600.
@@troydejesu9245 I worked at Mercury for 8 years in the design and engineering department. Even if they were allowed to copy and paste the design, with no development, the cost of the tooling required to make those parts would be millions and millions and millions, especially if diecast. Then you start looking at how many engines they would plan on selling per year, and you realize why they didn't do this. The sales volumes are so small it would never even pay off the tooling required, let alone make a profit.
I don't have an outboard, but it's crazy to me that an engine is $75k.
Not that crazy when the boat is millions
How does the 500 that was recently announced fit into all of this? Are you following the Howe2Live upgrade to the 500 and their attempt to have breakfast in NYC and dinner and Miami?
500R is for go fast boats. The 7 marine and this Merc v12 are for huge/heavy/luxury boats. 500R is for cats and really performance oriented stuff. Or idiots who put them on pontoons.
Nah, I don't really follow people with unlimited bank accounts; I can't really relate to them at all. Rather keep it real with people who build things.
The 500R is the 450R that makes a little more power. The 450R is a 300R with a supercharger on it.
@@sdvtenThe 500R is supposed to be a 450R without all the issues that plague the 450R. Guys at work did a repower on a Nortech. Took off quad 450Rs and put on 500Rs. We'll see how it holds up.
@@ADDvanced now that's something I wanna see -- a 500hp motor on a pontoon........before it sinks!!!!!!!
Sounds about spot on. Great video. 👍🇦🇺
Benefit of using of the shelf components is that they proven to realiable. All the components of the seven marines are from well know brands. Suzuki outboard 300hp comes with a duo prop gearcase setup wich for the first couple years they had to deal with not usable engines cause the gearcase would break. Seven marine made no mistakes making a realiable product for a new market high performance outboards and selling before the big competition Yamaha/Mercury turned up with a alternatieve
Now, you can get a whole lot more HP from a lighter and Compact 12, 8 or Supercharged 6.
Marine industry is filled with it.
It makes perfect sense.
Ollie is rolling over in his grave for what OMC did to his company.
Makes perfect sense to me.
great video, great editing! you are the goat when it comes to outboard nerd stuff!
Thansk J Ballz! Appreciate it!
The fact a boat engine costs what it does is criminal.
Why? Because you can't afford it?
I'm going to have to disagree because 7 marine had a platform that you can expand the horsepower and torque without having to change too much. With a super charger pulley change and a tune you can add another 100 horsepower. With a cam change you can add another hundred horsepower. .. This was a big mistake. The aftermarket tuners would have turned this into a racing platform that no other company can Match..
Neither one of these engines is very well suited for racing. Boats need special high speed drives when you get up around 75mph; anything else and you just blow out the water before the prop can grab it. There is nothing like that available for the Seven Marine or the V12 Merc. They aren't race engines.
People do this all the time in aviation, and many get themselves killed. I’m all about advancing tech, but if it were so simple to cram a corvette engine into an aircraft vs a clunky old air cooled….I’m guessing it’d have been done long ago.
I’m guessing this went the way of aircraft swaps…engines designed to rub one way (lugging along in overdrive) , vs another designed to run another way (100% in aircraft).
The gear reductions in planes have been a big failure point.
Now if these engines have been running reliably in the field with minimal warranty claims, then the Merc hypothesis sounds pretty good to me.
The simplest answer is usually the correct one.
I have never heard of this "7" outboard, not that it means anything.
I remember when a 100 hp outboard was considered impressive.
Money money moneyyyyyy
Yup, I remember as a kid when a beach neighbour turned up with a 300HP Merc on his 21ft Haines (NZ boat). The damn thing would do 60mph across the water, way faster than anything else around at the time. The motor was also vastly bigger than anything I'd seen before! my Dads boat had a 20 horse Chrysler! I was a little embarrassed...
Sounds plausible to me. As I understood it boat hauls and transoms had to be re engineered for 7 Marine. All of the adds I remember for them included Intrepid so I would assume they where their largest customer. Merc being cheaper and larger CI with 2 speed trans for low end torque may have set the stage for Intrepid. Volvo knows when to cut their losses. I am going to point to one other possibility. The possibility of upgrading to the V12 from other engines on more standard transoms would give Merc the advantage in that aspect also. That is if my assumptions and memory of the requirements are correct.
Absolutely. And the steerable gearcase on the v12 means they can be packaged more tightly and closer together. Another advantage.
I think time will show that all of these larger, heavier outboards will be placing too much strain on transoms, compared to inboards that are bolted along the horizontal surfaces., spearing the load. Weight distribution with multiple installations must be a real hull design challenge for architects. It’s notable that the class one racers are all staying onboard twins.
These engines seem to have most appeal to the Miami quin ‘look at me’ open bow riders crowds.
Although I do think that the new Verado 500r hits a sweet spots for sports boats in twin installations.
BTW Volvo actually have a bigger global network than does Mercury, given there lions share of the large performance diesel inboard and commercial markets.
@@gaycha6589 I don't believe that. There are literally thousands of Merc dealerships along rivers across the country that specialize in smaller outboards. VP is mainly sterndrive, so only on large bodies of water, none on smaller lakes and rivers.
@@ADDvanced USA is not the world
Majority or Merc dealers are in US. Volvo are far better distributed and serviced globally. I am in Europe - Volvo, being Swedish, are for better represented for service both here and in APAC.
Volvo also makes a very diverse range of marine engines beyond sterndrive installations - their breadth and depth of engineering exceed that of Mercury, who don't even manufacture but rebadge their entire 60hp range.
Volvo Group (including trucks) turnover was $48 Bn last year and they have been in business since 1929.
Brunswick Marine who own Mercury have a turnover of just $5.8 bn, Mercury contribute $26bn of that. They are therefore tiny in global terms, Volvo could buy them tomorrow.
Lecture over 🙂To the point, the 7 Marine acquisition was a strike on the balance sheet for Volvo to enter the large outboard segment by acquistion. Trouble is that they really only acquired an integrator, since Seven only bough bits in with no intellectual property, and a flawed product.
@@gaycha6589 Totally bro that's why they win so many races because they make such great stuff.
Oh wait. They don't win any races. Cuz they got nothing.
Interesting thing is cars generally don't run at high rpm continuously.
Wonder how they hold up long term.
And the automotive based engines running in millions of inboard marine applications?
@embustero71 ,
I don't know? Generally aren't they modified designs though? If you want to run an engine continuously at high RPM you build it to do so.
Different valve train components, pistons, might shorten up the stroke length, etc.
Pulling an off the shelf car engine and tossing it on the back of a boat seems like a harsh use case for it with oem components.
@@getinthespace7715 Seems like you're relying of the assumption that they just picked a random thing without actually considering if the specifications for the application were suitable.
@@Sonny_McMacsson, I asked a question? I didn't make a statement.🤔 Companies do stupid things all the time.
@@getinthespace7715 Questions have premises that prompt them. Companies do stupid things but since they were experienced engineers in the field, I'll assume for now that they did their due diligence.
Thank you for a great, concise, explanation. I agree completely. A+++
Thanks, sick of channels where people just talk a lot without knowing anything blaming politicians, it's so dumb. The most popular video til this one was one giant "thanks obama". Get out of here lol
Excellent analysis. Regards, from a professional.
Great vid i beer dying for some of this info
This is a classic play by corporations; buy the competition and years later dissolve the company they bought. It should be illegal, but we don't have consumer protections, so they can do what they want.
Late State Capitalism.
These monster outboards just don't make any sense to me. You can have a hybrid system where the props are electric and have a motor mounted anywhere convenient spinning a generator providing the power for the prop motors.
The whole thing can be setup with a lower CG, or even put the gas motors in the front, how about a four I6's along the sides, totally frees up the packaging, which is the hard part of outboards.
Having weight in the nose is the worst place for a boat. Best place for weight is behind the transom, to help the boat get out of the water.
@@ADDvanced great, then put the gas motors even further back than the props, as a hybrid there is only 3 wires that need to connect to the prop.
I would think having the gas motors sitting up so high above is not good, but maybe you will tell that is best to make the point straight up...I know my old hydrostream would reach for the sky.
I've been saying this for years.
It's so obvious. Blaming Biden or talking about the environment is a red herring.
You are correct ! Mercury Marine Rules 😊😊😊
Would be nice if they paid attention to affordable performance like they used to, their stuff today is almost unattainable.
There wouldn’t be a 600 Mercury without 7 Marine
7 Marine invented the market.
What are the intro and outro music i love it
th-cam.com/video/dQw4w9WgXcQ/w-d-xo.html
Case closed!
The 7 would have been so much more reliable than the merc ever thought about. It a shame really
Just your opinion
@csrboltfan2643 opinion from facts. The ls based engine is very reliable. The later model verados are not very reliable. Cam tower bolts snapping off, destroying power heads, connecting rod bolts stretching / breaking, causing catastrophic powerhead failure as well.
@@CaptainDayne What head-to-head comparative data sheet did you gather YOUR "facts" from?
Considering Mercury outsells 7 about 10,000/1 (my opinion), the numbers are naturally going to reflect a higher failure of Mercs vs 7.
Again, your post was simply an opinion based on NOTHING.
Seven wasn’t without their reliability issues. The LS wasn’t engineered to run WOT while pushing a very heavy boat for hours at a time.
@CaptainDayne I've delt with them. One of the biggest flaws with Seven is the cowlings. They are horrible and did not protect the engine from getting splashed with salt water. All that engineering for a $90k outboard engine and then they quit at the finish line.
I totally agree
The founder of 7 Marine was one of the main engineers at Mercury. He left because Mercury didn't want to go big....then they did. Remember US Marine? Same story.
I can't share my thoughts on Mercury anymore.
I agree wiyh you 100% the reason Volvo dropped the 7. Carbon footprint my ass.
BuT itS BiDeN!!1!1!! - offshore only
🙄
Very logical, nice work....
it got wet
How ironic, I’m the 777 person to like this video. I’m gonna go buy a lottery ticket now
lmao, nice, give me some if you win :P
Will that merc fit on a 16 foot sylvan?
Should fit two of them on there... Just make sure you move your fuel tanks all the way to the front. And maybe add a couple more gas tanks too, all those horses get real thirsty!
@@jameswarner7435 Hahaha OK, I'll go buy them now.
@@timothyhusketh3606 Could you pick me up one too while you're at it? I want to adapt one to a tiller configuration so i can run it on my trusty old 16ft "Deep V" Alumacraft. I wonder if anyone makes a kit for that? Be a nice little upgrade from the 1968 Johnson 20 on it now... I'll show all them hotroddin bass boaters how its done. Even though it takes me twice as long as the semi-pro fisheman wannabes to get up river to the best spots, they don't catch any more fish than I do. Im no engineer but, i figure one of Seven's v8 monsters hung on the back of my super lightweight & bare bones aluminum boat ought to get me on plane in about no seconds flat, pretty close to a sci-fi warp drive. Sure, my entire truck, trailer and boat probably worth ten grand total. So I know could add a $100k motor and still have one of the cheapest setups on the water. I don't know why I enjoy it so much, but nothing gives me joy like out-fishing rich people. I'd tell them exactly how I do it too if they'd ask. Instead theyd rather peep through thousand dollar binoculars every time I grab the net... Whatever floats their shiny new fiberglass bass boats i guess. But i was someone who's $$$ exotic custom crafted rods don't outfish my kmart uglystick, and whos state of the art 3d sideband imaging fully integrated marine electronics suite cost more by itself than i've spent on fishing this past decade, Id maybe feel a tad foolish, wonder if i got ripped off by my dealership guy. But then id still be curious, so maybe the next pass I troll by a little too close "on accident" and after apologizing of course hopefully be able start up a conversation, shoot the shit, and hopefully figure out what this silly local is doing right? So I realize to them I might look like a redneck, and Im fine with that assessment, but like everyone, im alot more than that label too. But do these city slickers think they're better than me? like for real? I sure hope not, but i cant tell for certain. Or are they just scared of rednecks because of stupid culture war bullshit the leftist media filled their heads with and they don't know no better? Christ, were both trying to catch the same damn fish, smallmouth and walleye. so we cant be that different!
@@jameswarner7435 Sure, I'll grab you one. Actually would two work? Don't forget, you should have a kicker- even the best plans should have a backup.
I'd rather have a V8 outboard 627 than a V 12 600 . I believe the 7 outboard would have much more longevity than the Mercury.
Yes and no. I've only seen a 7 Marine outboard twice so far.
Haven't heard anything terrible about them but they are not prevalent here in the Gulf Coast.
Mercury on the hand, they are plagued with problems. They do good things with their outboards but their quality is slipping.
Hard to beat Merc engineers, plenty of money and a worldwide presence. Mercury has been innovation leader since ‘39
OMC first V6 first V8
@@kevinarchbold3704 And where are they now…
You didn't ask that, you just said merc were first for innovation when they clearly weren't
If you knew anything about the history of outboard motors from inception to now you would not be making that statement.
@@sdvten I have read several books about Kiekhafer, know his history well, too include his time at Evinrude. They were so far behind Merc and Yamaha and brought Ficht to market untested and it drove them into bankruptcy at the cost of a few lives and producing out of spec Garbage, I challenge you to dispute Truth…
Great presentation
Thanks! Sick of people blaming Biden for things he had nothing to do with, so dumb.
no way a company pulls the plug on a viable product before a competitor brings a new product to market. Mercury probably spent $100m + on tooling for the v12 let alone the drive unit and transmission. Funny how a start-up can revolutionize an industry... Maybe Mercury was asleep at the wheel... Yamaha is still asleep at the wheel... If you look at Volvo and study their global production of engines/units including their construction equipment... the Euros are full swing into carbon neutrality. You don't thing they would have added inboard pod technology to the outboard (they had it before anyone) and they specialize in diesel engines. IF Seven Marine owners weren't bought out by Volvo, they would have continued to innovate and lead the market.
"I don't *think* any of that is true". Really swinging it out the park with an opener like that.
I really don't think any of that is true.... because... see the rest of the entire video, chucklefuck.
Agree 10000%
Thanks!
The founders of Seven are crying all the way to the bank…
yeah they seemed to have done well. Build business, sell out for a bunch of money, bounce.
Imagine you're an engine company and this new guy comes along and takes like 1-3% of the market. Thats an enormous loss for every other company. Fucking get rid of it.
I can't fault your reasoning behind shutting down 7 Marine, but I'm yet to understand why Volvo bought it in the first place.
It was never a market segment that Volvo competed in and it's not like boat builders were going to swap to a Volvo sterndrive, on boats built around outboards.
Yeah, I don't get it. Maybe they just wanted to be ahead of Mercury, briefly.
Agree!
Sounds logical.
100k is a lot for a Chevy v8.
Gee, you can get a turbo flat 6 Lycoming for that. Certified and all.
100% agree.
Word!
Or maybe Merc paid Volvo the purchase 7 to eliminate the competition!!
Agreed
I agree 100%
That is a shame but it is business.
Merc for life!!!!!
Maybe an OMC v8 OB at some point tho. Those are rad too. :P
In short , seven marine original owner got lucky ans exit at the right time leaving volvo screwed
Mercury... enough said.
Dominated so hard that Volvo gave up before the v12 even hit the market lol
Your explanation makes sense to me, business always trumps the environment.
Honestly the 7 Marine engines were more attractive due to the fact it was built with off the shelf parts that already existed and not much, if anything was proprietary meaning guys with knowledge on you to work on car engines can work on the 7 and save so much money in the long run.
A chevy long block is cheap as sh*t, like $5k to $10k with some as low as $3k, they easily could have undercut a $77k Mercury engine.
Apparently not.
Sounds like someone at Volvo Penta made a terrible business decision. One would think a large company like Volvo Penta would have done the financial math before buying a controlling share.
Yup. I think once they found out what mercury was doing, they knew they were screwed.
they bought Deutz, then sold it too.
Agree
GOOD ARGUMENT 👍🏼
Totally agree
Disagree. I worked for HCB Yachts during that timeframe. The Seven Marine Engine was junk. Lots of problems right out of the box. Yamahas and Mercs much more reliable, and that matters in bluewater.
I'm sure that didn't help. I bet their financials looked great on paper right up until transferred ownership.
Not really getting the point of this vid.
The second it came out that Merc was doing the 600, it answered the question
Yet offshore only blames Biden for some dumbass reason….. literally the #1 result on Google is wrong.
I agree.
Intrepid boats swore by 7 marine using their engines on a lot of their models. :)
Well the president of Volvo Penta Helene Mellquist didn't like the gas guzzling Seven Marine that's why they cancelled production and that probably pure luck because at that time they didn't have a clue about Mercury's 600. So yes it was due to that Mellquist didn't like it and blamed environment as a reason they canceled it
Change of management at Volvo Penta between the time of the purchase and the shutdown. The purchase, when you look at it, does not look consistent with the range, nor the promise, nor the focus of Penta…even at the time of the purchase. Not sure what has happened there. Closing a brand, factory is a cost, I guess something have been repurposed for the North American in-board petrol engine line up.
NASA Engineers wouldn't bet against a Merc. Engineer. Not if they're smart.
Hundy!
Volvo has a larger global service network than does Mercury
I don't care about the rest of the world. America is where the outboard was invented, and we make the fastest boats here. Go eat a meatball.
@@ADDvancedWrong again. 1. Ole Evinrude, the inventor of the outboard engine was Norwegian. 2. The world water speed record is held by Spirit of Australia. Go eat more processed food!
Btw if Mercury are the biggest and best, in your view why does Tohatsu make all of their sub 60hp units for MM to rebadge?
@@gaycha6589 Because they're a commodity product, there's not much profit in them. Even they did something innovative/improved it, other manufacturers in china would just rip it off. Same problem with Briggs/Stratton, small engines just can't be sold for much.
What small outboards does Volvo Penta make? Oh, right, none whatsoever.
@@gaycha6589 So Merc can focus on the engines that really matter
GREED ! money & control
Disagree. Where in the world can you get a GM v8 serviced? Where on earth can you get a ZF transmission serviced? ANYWHERE!
Doesn’t hold water. They were using decade old technology. The seven marine engine was more of a proof of concept. Had they invested in the idea it could have kept going. Volvo obsessed with in boards not outboards. Also they love diesel.