Top 5 Bash Teams in Blood Bowl 2020 - Top 5 Friday (Bonehead Podcast)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 ก.ค. 2024
- It's Top 5 Friday!!
Each week we'll focus on the Top 5 Something in Blood Bowl!
Let us know your ideas for lists!
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#BloodBowl #GamesWorkshop #BoneheadPodcast - บันเทิง
I still get PTSD every time I have to face a dwarf team, my first season playing other people as lizards, the dwarf coach completely wrecked the team, leaving 7 perms in one game, including Krox. Was even able to afford Morg, Slibli and a magician the following game it was that bad 😱😱😱
Post-Dwarf therapy is sadly an ever growing field, up 62% since 2016 😞
Private league bias here but Khemri deserve a top 5 in my list. They have pitch cleared a Chaos team and just missed out on wiping the Nurgle off the field. Even Orcs were almost completely removed! 3 TGs with Block enabled them to do insane (and worrying) things.
Can confirm, I felt filthy playing dwarfs and bashing my way to victory the other night
Great stuff as always! I'd just like to add that I think Black Orcs have one more thing going for them, chucking defensive on some of the goblins will synergize beautifully when you put them between two Black Orcs with guard. Suddenly the opponent cant use guard and the goblin is considered str 4 on their turn. That is gonna make those Black Orcs even harder to get two or even one die blocks on :)
And with the nerf of claw and the rebuy rules green skins of all kinds will do better at bashing relatively speaking :)
I'd have welcomed some toning down for the dwarves. Arm bar or brawler instead of tackle and block would have made them more interesting. That way leveling them up wouldn't be automatic but you'd have to make a choice as with other teams.
Hey Rhag! I totally agree with you - we were all so excited when the OWA roster was spoiled haha, and it looked like Dwarf Blockers were getting Brawler/Arm Bar!
1) Dwarf
2) Chaos Dwarf
3) Lizardmen
4) Chaos Chosen
5) Black Orc
Yet another great installment of the Bonehead Podcast!
I would like to add that Nurgle at high TV are arguably the best Bash team.
Why?
Nurgle start with the best passive Bash skill: Foul Appearance.
Once at high TV Nurgle gets all the best kill skills and players. Claw, MB, Tackle to knock players over and foul with the cheap rotters.
Foul Appearance is then at its best because what are the survival chances of a failed FA roll?
Right, your opponent can't use all his killy skills on your team. So this is what enables Nurgle to come out on top at the bash game.
Also take into account that they can seriously shot down any passing play and force the running play by the opponent.
And that's when the Beast of Nurgle steps in. With Break Tackle it used to have access to the 1+ Dodge, now only 3+. But still a formidable weapon combined with it's tentacles. You can shutdown the running game too by standing next to the fastest, lower strength running pieces.
That's some sweet counter play combined with pure killer bash skills.
They can have upto 4 Pestigors, so they can develop them nicely for each roll: killer, slacker, ball carrier and Guard support.
Why people underestimate Nurgle is because few people actually play until high TV. I am talking fully developed teams, where TV efficiency is really an integral part of the game.
Players who under perform get rotated to try again and get the perfect skill rolls. Now in 2020 you can simply save up to get any skills you need need, it's just that Stats are less going to be boosted.
Only in eternal league play this would pay off to wait for the Stat chance, once you have the core skills.
Stats are great on the Pestigors, with +MA as the fail state, it's totally worth it. I would pass on +PA, that's not the Nurgle way.
If you wait after the first Block skill, the stat increase will determine their role. MA boost becomes Ball Carrier and then you can easily start developing the other roles with chosen skills.
Ben, the community, and the Second Season Black Orc models sold me on Orcs... I really never placed them that high on my list but they look sharp now and they can perform.
Hey Silicon, haha, I don't think you'll regret them! They're a tonne of fun to play, but aren't formulaic - you'll have to work for your wins :D They've hit the Tier 2 sweet spot with them!!
I agree with the lists. But I think that Amazons are underrated as a Bash team. They have loads of starting Blodge and their linewomen have pseudo-Blodge against anyone without Block.
Interesting, I'd never really thought of Amazons this way but they're still nowhere near top tier bash. The problem with the pseudo blodge is that it works on defense but not on offense. Technically, stunty players and gutter runners have this pseudo blodge as well. Amazons (like Dwarfs) have no innate strength greater than 3 but, unlike Dwarfs, the majority of the team do not get strength skills on a primary so they don't get guard easily either. Dwarfs can make 1 die blocks with virtually the entire team as it is no more dangerous than dodging with elves, really. The reason the Dwarf team works is because they start with just about every useful basic skill you need them to have to do their job, so they get guard straight away. A line or cage of longbeards with guard and some mix of mighty blow and stand firm is a nightmare to break up. Amazon line women can't do that, a 1 die block with a line woman is twice as risky as a Dwarf.
Furthermore armor 8+ vs. armor 10+ is a massive difference, the dwarf is almost always getting back up even against opponents with mighty blow. If you are leaving your opponent with extra blocks, invariably you will start to go down and, chances are, that armor 8+ will start to tell sooner rather than later, especially if they have mighty blow. Amazons can probably out bash elf teams but against other bashers the lack of access to lots strength skills will be too much to overcome.
TL;DR: The thing all the best bash teams have in common is heavy access to strength skills on primary skill selections. While teams like Amazons may be able to do better than holding their own in a scrap against teams like Skaven or Elves, I think being anywhere near top tier bash teams requires those strength skills both for access to guard and removal like mighty blow/pile driver. Even stand firm is an excellent little buff to a guard piece.
Not a bad list! I deffo dislike playing against Dwarves the most. It's a uphill battle both drives..! That said, last match I had against Snotlings, 3 of my players ended up in the Casualty box.
Looking forward to next week's top 5!
I think that Orcs are underestimated as being one of the more well-rounded teams, and Orc Throwers are too often overlooked (although "Animosity" sadly puts a dent in this). Unlike other bash teams, Orcs have a player with Sure Hands, which makes picking up the ball less of a hassle (not to mention saving your re-rolls for other tasks), and picking up Block for the first skill makes the Thrower a reasonable ball carrier, albeit slow. In addition, the Pass skill means that throwing the ball is an option in a pinch (especially if you have a re-roll in your pocket for the receiver). I've pulled off some awesome throwing plays in the past. Sometimes they fail, but they succeed often enough, and when they do it makes the game more exciting than just sticking to a slow cage march.
The lizardmen have always been my favourite bash team the sauron were always so strong and fast pity they had no skills to start :-)
Great stuff, should do top 5 alternate balls soon. Cheers
Great vid
skaven can actually bash decently because they have access to mutations so they can get claw and horns for offense and foul appearance for defense. They also have a decent amount of starting block and dodge for defense. Also dodge and high movement is useful for outmaneuvering the other team so that you can move your pieces to assist/ negate their assist.
Dark Elves just because their psychopaths that enjoy murder.
Totally! You can play most teams in a Bashy way, and I'm with you there - I loooove the bashy Skaven builds! Mine normally don't survive long enough for it though haha 😁
Fantastic episode as always Ben, thank you for all your hard work in bring this to us, the masses!
Dwarfs, Dwarfs, Dwarfs!!! Oh, and Chaos Dwarfs, too!
My two teams this year...bashing my way through 2021!
Great video as always! Its very ironic that dwarves are no 1 because the dwarf coach in my league cannot break armor to save his life. Scored zero casualties against our lizards player but lost two of his guys for next game.
To be fair Sauruses are at least as tough as Dwarfs and harder to get two dice against because of ST4 (depending on TV). It's not the easiest thing in the world to blitz skinks with Dwarfs, either. Especially not with longbeards for tackle when they have half the move of a skink and are frequently in combat.
Dice rolling is still dice rolling though, I played a game against Amazons with my Dwarves on Blood Bowl 2 and despite 21 armor breaks I got only 1 casualty. Nearly every armor break result was stunned, while one of my troll slayers died...on turn 16. It happens.
I've always considered myself a player in the elven traditions but with Dwarf, Black Orc, Chaos and Ogre teams maybe I need to re-evaluate that... Though I am playing in the finals of my FLGS' leage tomorrow with my Pro Elves (playing under 2016 rules)
Yes Dean!! Pro Elves in 2016 were a *grind*! Nice hustle getting to the finals with them (and I'm assuming 20+ Journeymen?! xD), and good luck!!
Haha, there's a progression cycle within BB that keeps players swinging between Control (Bash), Combo (Stunty), and Dash! Some players just lean heavily one way or the other!
My Ork line up for league play: thrower (bombardier, block, leader), 4x blitzer (tackle to get them dodgers, MB to get more exp from CAS, 1-2x strip ball, pro(+3) or diving tackle), 4x BOB (block, MB, tackle/diving tackle), 2x goblin (1x diving tackle, 1x sneaky git), 3-4 re-rolls, get 2 line Orks later, no troll, I just don't like wasting tons of money for the slowest/dumbest creature on the pitch, that's more of liability than bonus just to fancy the illusion of 1 turn TD, no guards as long as them f***** dwarves are not spawned all over the league.
Might need to update this bad boy to include the new Khrone team :)
Ohooo most definitely 🤔 but how high on the pile of skulls do they rise up the list!
I am surprised Undead didn't make the list. With Two big guys with no negative traits (not even having loaner) and Wrights ghouls being able hit things at a distance, and having the Agility to reposition and dodge as needed. Zombies also make perfect speed bumps tying down high strength players or disposable foulers.
I love dwarfs, orcs, undead, chaos dwarves. I can't play straight dash teams. I lose, don't score, and die. But bash works for me. .but......
These days I love having dwarf runners with extra movement, same with the other teams. More use them as a hybrid bash and dash team now
The Pile Driver + Sneaky Git tactic you suggest at 7:10 does not conform to the rules as you can take from the FAQ/Errata (May 2021 current update). It says that Pile Driver consumes the one foul per turn that you have. it just lets you use it after a block as a free action.
awful skill
Chaos Dwarf 😊
Chaos (OG). Not watched the video but fingers crossed #1!
edit: watched *yet*
edit 2: 90 seconds later... :\
I was shocked at them being no.5 too. I played against lizardmen with my chaos last night and they had 5 players on the pitch by half time.
Chaos renegades are pretty bashy. But not reliably bashy. I’m leading my league in casualties. But I knock out a lot of players with my Minotaur.
I wonder where the new Norse come in on this list
Kind of disagree with the norse, they're definitely bash, but i might have slotted lizards or nurgle instead
Hey Joe! Lizards and Nurgle are totally up there with the best Bash teams!!! :D
This is so weird as dwarves are literally bottom tier in my legue. Against other st3 teams they do well, but usually just get dodged through, and most other bashy teams have higher st, they just beat the living hell out of them. Last game had 6 dwarf casiulties to chaos chosen as they just continually got blitzed, knocked a dwarf, and then conga lined to a whole pile of dwarves. Geberally seem super weak, but hey, maybe we just play around then very well.
i think Chaos Dwarves outscale dwarves. So i disagree with dwarves on the list without chaosdwarves. Not sure what to kick out, maybe black orcs.
I play blood bowl 2. I'm too old to go down to gw and get decimated by teenagers. So its online bashing. I love dwarves, orcs and chaos dwarves. Orcs are my favourite. The whole team has block, tackle, mighty blow, the odd ones get guard. Couple have frenzy, and get used like slayers. But best of all theyre green and like Crumlin stuff
I play blood bowl 2 because I couldn’t stand to look my opponent in the eye at the end of the match after I foul all 16 turns.
@@BasedAsher what team do you play. Fouling kind of playing in character for gobbos , skaven , chaos dwarves etc. And to be honest often enough it gets you sent off giving opponents a numerical advantage. And it's in the rules. It's not like you're cheating
@@mikeenglish7063 Brettonian with a full 16 roster usually end the game with all my peasants injured or ejected
@@BasedAsher I usually play orcs. Find bretonians awkward with their fend ability. Normally like to get in close and bash, but that fend keeps me at arms length . Then you get high level chaos teams.....
I usually win, but my Boyz get smashed , injured and killed as much as I mete it out. Like playing dwarves too. That death roller is fun. Never does as much damage as it should, but love those pile on animations .
How is Korn not here!? Feels bad xc
Wasn't out then
But Chaos Dwarves or Dwarves which smacks better?
Hmmm... Overall I think standard Dwarves do have the bash advantage, but man-o-man, I do love a good Minotaur!!
@@BoneheadPodcast cheers lad. I ran Chaos Dwarves a lot back in 2016 and I liked the spot of speed the Bull Centaurs gave and the excellent bigman abilities of the minotaur (basically 6 str blitzer "bigman", sign me up) but yeah hobos probably let the team down as worse than straight up dwarves (ok it's not that but we blame the hobos)
Did my 5 votes count???
"If you want to learn bash, play Dwarves"
LMAO you don't learn sh#@ playing Dwarves XD They have the safest blocks in the game. I've seen so many local players start with Dwarves, and then move on to another team and wonder why they can't just base their opponents every turn. I wouldn't go as far to say that Dwarves promote bad habits, but they definitely reduce the impact of most mistakes. I think starting with Orcs will teach newer players when not to throw 2D blocks without Block, when not to base, and how to advance through a screen without totally stranding them in the skill-free wasteland of TV1000 Chaos :D. My two cents.
Surprised Nurgle didn't make the list. Nurgle can't win unless they're mutilating the other team.
No lizard men ?
I got my ass handed to me more often against lizards.
I love norse but you can’t beat a 1200TV Kemri team with 4 mighty blow Tomb Guardians, and another 8 Dirty player skeletons.
😅
I'm not usually one for downvoting but putting Norse even in a Top 5 Bash list, let alone at #3 is just uneducated. They are glass cannons and while they perform okay at starting level, they simply do not last because of their low armour and lack of tools for disengaging/repositioning.
I'd rather start with more armour than start with Block for a Bash team because it means your developed pieces will actually last. It's not uncommon for Norse teams to be completely obliterated in a few turns when they face a more competent bash team with equal development because:
- their advantages of Block are equaled
- their Frenzy just puts them out of position or in danger because good coaches set up Guard traps
- as a bash team they tend to be in contact often
- but their armour doesn't hold up to return hits
- and they don't have access to skills that allow them to disengage or reposition to minimise counter blocks and play around this weakness
So they just get pounded down by Mighty Blow because they can't easily dodge away and they have to basically pray for good dice in every single bash matchup. They're awful.
Not to mention Lizards and Chorfs (who have won the Blood Bowl 2 CCL competition more than any other race) not even in this list?! Nonsense!
Agree. Something that's not addressed here is that different teams excel at different TV-ratings. Norse is a good bash team at TV1000, but not really over TV1200. Chaos is horrible at TV1000, contrary to what he says.
Please don't recommend people on trying dwarves, we have enough of these little annoying things around! Haha
On a different note, Amazon is more a bashy team than Norse imo : with Norse you don't want to base because you will be murdered if you do so, you play more hit and run, not following on pushes and so on.. With Zons, you don't care, you rely on blodge to stay standing and you fight back on the next turn
Honestly, Zons vs Norse is a really close match up for Bash - however the Ulfs and Yheti just wins that combat for me!
Luckily Zons don't have a big guy haha
Oops... Dwarves *are* a great challenge, and sometimes learning how to play with them is the best way to learn to beat them ;)