Hey I got a question what do you think of the possibility, thrawn is simply becoming senile? I mean he’s been exiled for over decade, he’s probably been very stressed out trying to appease the witches, maintain his forces and has likely suffered many failures if he was unable to capture Ezra. All that plus the fact he’s now old, could of damaged his brilliant mind and I think that be kinda poetic, these rements cling onto a past that’s long gone, what’s left is old and worn out.
I suspect they are introducing Abeloth as the future corruptor of Kylo Ren. Thrawn will set up the First order and Abeloth will grow it. She will bring down Luke's new Jedi Order, only to be defeated/banished by Luke or Ahsoka. Kylo Ren rises from the power vacuum. Luke goes into self-imposed exile, like Yoda without the excuse of old age.
Though it’s unknown how big Thrawns fleet or the new republics fleet are, I really hope to see some large fleet battles especially with the advances in CGI
One word: Logistics It doesn't matter how many ISDs are sitting out there. Even with automation circuits so they can run with skeleton crews, each of those ships inhales millions of tons of hypermatter just to keep the lights on. The remnant would need an immense logistical operation to keep their ships fueled, supplied with air, food, water, etc. They had entire planetary systems dedicated just to supplying the resources to keep the fleet flying. Most of that is either gone or out of reach after Jakku, meaning that they most likely can only field a miniscule fraction of the ships they have on hand. Add to that the dearth of experienced crews, and even the ships that were operational were likely to be inhabited by less-capable officers and crews. So they could be sitting on tens of thousands of ships, thousands of ISDs, but only able to field a tiny percentage, and that having reduced combat effectiveness due to the quality of leadership and crew competence. That said, I agree that at this point the Remnant really don't need a lot of ships. The NR is weak and repeating the same mistakes that led to its dissolution two decades earlier. The fact is that militarily, neither organization is much of a threat to the other. The best they can do is snipe at each other while they try to hold onto their respective power centers and rebuild themselves. From that standpoint, Palpatine's contingency plan kind of worked.
Well I would say that first, as a Chiss, he has knowledge of the unknown regions and its resources, as well as his people. As an imperial grand admiral he would have knowledge of pretty much all imperial strongholds, supply depots etc except palpatines secret things - some things that still may not be be under new republic control, or easy to take from them as they can’t guard it all at once. And with time and surprise (for the moment) on his side as they gear up to face him or see how real a threat he is- he can do a few things. Ones like Pellaeon are still loyal to him, and will quickly and easily side with thrawn and hand over control of any and all assets they have, and the dark council made it clear that they control a decent amount of resources - since Gideon was asking for some for himself. No doubt they keep their own strength hidden so as not to tangle with the new republic in a super costly or unwinnable engagement. And lastly mandalorian and Ashoka have made it abundantly clear that something fishy is going on with many many imperials in positions all throughout the new republic from intelligence, and information on coruscant to shipbuilding and such on Correllia, many of which are still loyal and sympathetic to the empire, who will easily and quickly jump to his side as well, probably stealing ships and supplies, sabotaging new republic things- or one thing in theorizing is a katana/black fleet situation where all those fancy nice new ships are able to be slaved to his control from under new republic noses and he can build a fleet that way, maybe even with minimal to no crew at all piloting them.
And yet the nr will win somehow and I bet you luke, han and leias role would be minimal to none for some reason all so we can continue to the garbage sequel trilogy
Really interesting post but I think Operation Cinder was a bad move it doesnt fit in with the scheming Sith more with a petty tyrant throwing his toys out of the pram. It denied resources to any Imperial forces and made any still loyal systems more likely to seek peace with the New Republic as who wants to support someone who may destroy your planet on a whim. I wish writers wouldn't keep relying on what Hitler did as inspiration for their stories. Hitler didn't see the German people coming back Palpatine always planned on coming back.
I don’t think Thrawn “lost a step” on Peridia; I think he had one VERY clear objective (get back to the GFFA) and VERY limited resources after nearly a decade of being stranded. He set up a multi-layered rearguard defensive action while preparing to retreat to slow down very capable opponents with powers his forces couldn’t contend with while sacrificing the fewest number of pieces. Even his sacrifice of Morgan Elsbeth was a choice to give up a valuable piece on the board to make sure he still won the game. Even if you say, for instance, “Why didn’t he destroy the tomb while the Jedi were still inside?”-he couldn’t! He needed to pull the Chimaera out of position above the fortress to be able to safely destroy it. Thrawn won. He achieved his objective. Was it a clean victory? No. But it was far better than anyone else would have managed. As for how he was portrayed in Rebels … I have my issues with that, but chalk it up to him being the villain in a children’s cartoon rather than a nuanced character in a series of full-length novels written for grown-ups. 🤷🏻♂️
Anyone else would had close and locked all the doors in the tower to slow the enemys down, like the enemys did to slow down his rag army. Anyone else also wouldnt help the enemy to reunite. Anyone else, especialty not the real Thrawn, wouldnt had trouble to find Ezra and his hermit crabs. Imposter Thrawn didnt won, he just somehow didnt lose, because his enemys were equally stupid. If the Imposter didnt send 2 Tie Fighter "to slow the enemy down", Ashoka and the caravan of hermit crabs would still move with the speed of a tectonic plate towarts the tower.
I still worry about how he'll be written in movies intended for a mainstream audience. If he's treated with the care of the lesser Imperials in Andor, he'll be the deific Thrawn we know from the books. If not . . . I expect he'll be a shadow of his true self. I desperately, desperately hope they consult Timothy Zahn when writing his upcoming movie.
Ships don't sail themselves. Currently it takes between 6 to 9 people to support 1 warfighter out in the field. Now add to that the complication of maintaining logistics chains, recruiting and training replacement personnel. Intelligence gathering activities and all the specialised technology required by each of those individual skillsets. Even if the ships were heavily automated, they could be easily damaged and taken out of the fight for months or permanently because the replacement parts aren't available and cannot be replaced.
If Thrawn's story parallels what happened in the books, then he will rally a decent portion of the imperial remnants to his side, lead a series of hit and run attacks against a number of new republic worlds and forces, and finally die by betrayal of someone whom he thought loyalty and steadfast. I know that it's over simplified but that's the basic gist of it and about as close to the original story as Disney's likely to get. Assuming that they even bother to begin with.
It was actually his own assassin/bodyguard that killed him because he found out that Thrawn was using biological warfare on his home world but yeah I hope Disney goes with that route
It's going to be a reverse rebellion situation where people fall in line against the New Republic, remembering only the order of what the Empire was but none of the bad things because that's how humans are we just forget about the bad stuff
@@anthonyluetmer8499 With the Nightsisters plot, I'm thinking that Sidious' role in the massacre on Dathomir might come to light...making it an echo of the noghri story
An unusual but interesting oponent for Thraw could be Kalani - the super tactical droid who refused his deactivation command - if he had ressources, perhaps as a contracted military force for the Verpines... He could be deadly , and Ezra is not a stranger for him... Some punchlines could be thrown to Thrawn by him: "You don't know me , but I know you" , "It's ironic for the heir to the empire to be destroyed by a fully operational war machine", "I'm the separatists revenge"...
The explanation might be really obvious. 80% of the surviving fleet was sent to Exogal to be retrofitted for Palpatine's return. 10% of the fleet was destroyed. 10% of the fleet is being run by warlords.
I don’t think that was 80% of the entire fleet, even that fleet at exegil looked too small. I wouldn’t be shocked if many were build in subterranean facilities.
I think the 80% of the imperial fleet that you are referring to is different from the exegol fleet. I just found out the xystons are already under construction during the reign of the empire so that means those xystons are basically backups for the main fleet of the empire. Checkout the wiki history of the xyston class star destroyer. Correct me if I'm wrong.
@@BaroneMarcus-jv3jt The Wiki says the 1000 Xystons were built years after the Galactic Civil War and were derived from original ISDs. Old ISDs stripped for parts to make the new double size planet killer Xyston ISD. Would also explain where all crew came from.
Thrawn isn't an art critic, he looks at art as if he were looking at the soul of the artist and their people. He draws an understanding of what they are and how they will behave by what he observes in the artwork. There is no judgement or criticism when looking at the art. You say he doesn't create anything; I say that he creates masterpieces of battlefield strategy.
In the comics there was scene where Vader stumbled across the Exogal fleet. The strength Palpatine expressed by showing Vader a glimpse of his future plan was one of the reasons Vader stayed loyal and clung to the dark side
I hope thrawn can find some acclamtor assault ships because they are ridiculously fast with a .6 hyper drive speed and can cross the galaxy top to bottom twice on the same tank of fuel and each can also carry plenty of ground forces
Seeing Thrawn's tactics play out in Live-Action with good CGI shall hopefully prove to be spectacular. You wager Filoni has read the Thrawn Trilogies? (Both Canon/Legends?)
Honestly, I don't think he did. I think he's only uses characters that have great reputation. Thrawn's forces being so clumsy is kinda a clue that he doesn't know how Thrawn inspires excellence in his forces in the books. A lot of Zahn books glorify the Empire, how can you be a fan of Thrawn and Zahn and always portray Empire as incompetent?
This brings up something that sci-fi has never really done a good job of showing and that's fleet sizes. Like, the Battle of Endor looked big but if you count it out there's only a few dozen capital ships present. I can't think of any kind of live action work that's ever shown truly massive fleets.
I don't think Thrawns ego is rising or sharpness is lacking or dropping. I think he had to be more boatsful and egotistical in order to to keep his soldiers in line and the Great Mothers subdued. If anything it could just be rusty and will quickly adapt to the new Republic tactics and doctrine.
I agree with you. Thrawn isn't dumb, he's just a wounded animal hiding his injuries and projecting power and confidence to mask how bad the situation really is. He made the mistakes he made on Peridea like staying docked to long, not sending out more TIEs, and not shutting doors because he actually couldn't.
Think about how much Thrawn has told Pellaeon before he disappeared. I feel the good captain knows a great many things that the rest of the shadow council does not. After all that time in exile, you'd think Thrawn has already figured out a plan once he returned. This presumably means access to bases, assets, and holdings that were already under Thrawn and Pellaeon's control or influence. Idk. I feel the cannon Thrawn campaign will be long and large.
Thrawn had some resources, but nothing near what the Empire had. In the books Thrawn stole some remote mining machines from Lando Calrissian to break into several Min Calamari cruisers at Sluis Van, and tried to get the Katana fleet dreadnoughts. If Thrawn had more resources he would have built more Star Destroyers rather than putting so much effort into stealing Republic ships.
Re: why didn't Palpatine amass the entire fleet at Endor: Mon Mothma said the fleet was scattered chasing the Rebellion. Palpatine needed to maintain that pretense to make the trap believable.
Definitely got a point here. Putting a number on the ISD fleet was a mistake, wherever that first entered canon. It sounds like a reasonable number for a galaxy spanning empire, but at the same time it doesn't sound like enough. And the only on screen massive engagement shown was Exogol, which doesn't count for this issue and introduced a whole other set of issues.
TBH, that 25K ISD figure was probably mostly propaganda. Kind of like how Russia way outguns the Western powers in terms of the number of tanks in their inventory, but when you look at them you find many are not combat capable, they've been stripped of parts, or were never delivered due to corruption, or have no fuel and ammo (also due to corruption). So much of the Imperial war machine relied on sector Moffs to organize and maintain those forces that I'm pretty sure their real strength was a lot less that their reported strength. It's just too big a temptation for the local Imperial officials to siphon off those credits into their own private slush funds at the Bank of Aargau.
I hope this is the case and Palpatine had been secretly diverting a percentage of all star destroyers built for the entire history of the Empire, plus other resources and staff/cultists.
Then there are the ISDs that have been mothballed. 20% of the surviving fleet was sent to Exogal to be retrofitted for Palpatine's return. 10% of the fleet was destroyed. 30% of the fleet is being run by warlords. 25% of the fleet is dead in the water and sitting in protected moth balls, 10% is awaiting the breakers in the core worlds like Ferax because it costs money to scrap a ship. 10% is being used by independent worlds after significant refits to act as the core of local defense fleets.
Here is the real size of the imperial navy. 13 exsecutor class dreadnoughts, which were outnumbered by no more than 100 smaller dreadnoughts of 5-8k meters. Which were out numbered by no more then 400-600 battle cruisers of 2-4k meters which were outnumbered by 25,000 imperial class star destroyers. Which was outnumbered by more smaller star destroyers. Which were outnumbered by other capital ship classes of 500-600 meters. Which was out numbered by light cruisers, frigates and small carriers. Which was out numbers by corvettes and ships less then 200 meters. And then those were outnumbered. By gunboats. And then shuttles, gunships and fighters. Around 100 dreadnaught 400-600 battle cruisers 25,000 star destroyers. 75,000 other smaller star destroyer varrients 140,000 other capital ships: 360,000 frigates and cruisers and carriers 800,000 corvettes, transports, and freighters. 1,600,000 gunboats 4-5 million shuttles 10-15 million gunships Tens of millions of fighters. Very conservative number btw
He doesn’t really have a fleet. He was exiled with only the chimera and its crew/compliment. There’s nothing left for him to rally since it’s been years after the imperial forces were crushed at jakku
I believe that, like the world between worlds, it has significant ties to the father son and daughter the force. Thrawn is either bringing back dead warriors or weapons. When you think about it, the reason why he's going back to Dathomir is ground work for the night mother's is already done it's a place strong with the force and has alter they could probably mend using witchcraft but I could be wrong. Well, in the rebel series, each planet had about 6 star ship destroyers hovering about in the planets atmosphere or above. Each star destroyer carries Imperial I-class Star Destroyers had over 37,000 crew on board- 9,235 officers and 27,850 enlisted personnel. The complement of 9,700 stormtroopers added to a total of 46,785 crew and passengers.
Am I the only one here who hopes that the Grysks from the Thrawn books end up becoming the main villains? And perhaps it will come to pass that the Imperial Remnant under Thrawn and the New Republic end up having to unite to stop them from taking all of lesser space and the Chiss Ascendancy? Probably not going to happen, but it would be awesome.
Just remember how little Thrawn had in the books or with what Pellaeon worked in the Orinda Campaign...That wasn't much and they still reeked havoc (until being assassinated or in Gilads case loosing too much capital ships to Wedge and the Lusankya). I wouldn't be surprised if Filoni pulls something like the Dominion out of a Nebula for Pellaeon to command.
I think most of the Imperial Fleet was brought to Exegol to be modified, a question many people wondered when the Rise of Skywalker cam out, is how palps constructed so many ships in the time that he had. The modification of current Star Destroyers could be an explanation and if so it would prove a good answer to what thrawn is left with
Problem is while those look like ISDs with a big cannon, they are actually much larger, really they are scaled up. So even if that is what happened that would still be a lot of manpower and recourses.
2 questions/ topics. Knowing Dave and how he loves bringing back legends material. Do you think thrawn will end up trying to locate the eclipse in order to try to solidify his grip over the remnants? Also do you think he'll even want to continue trying to fight for the empire? His whole reason for being with the empire was to protect his homeworld and people the chiss. But with no empire and a barely held together New republic, might thrawn just decide to take his own resources and meet up with his own people to try and fortify their part of the galaxy? I asks this primarily due to the fact that we see no mention of the chiss or thrawn in the sequal trilogy, and thrawn pretty much being the "savior" of the empire, we'd have heard of him in novels or something. But he's found no where. There may be a conflict between thrawn and another remnant leader and I believe this is where the thrawn movie will begin. A final civil war between the remnants before the Victor goes into hiding to create the first/ final order. Kinda fan theorizing there but I'm trying to piece it together.
Well, Chimaera is not only in bad shape, but it is just one ISD, there is no way it is going to help much Chiss, and there is no way for Imperial warlords to just go into unknown regions and fight for some alien civilisation they had never heard of before, not unless Thrawn will estabilish himself as powerfull leader before making that order.
@marcelgrabowski5939 I agree. There's already a faction in the council that wants thrawn to lead. However with the state of the empire/ now remnant forces, he may decide to pull his forces into a new direction. No more empire to serve but they may choose to serve thrawn. If he returns to his homeworld with a fleet of his own he may just take claim of his part of the galaxy. BUT we still run into the issue of the other remnant warlords who won't follow thrawn because of their own orders from operation cinder and operation Phoenix I believe? I can't remember at this very second it's name. But we Also not forget, thrawn has access to, if those containers are filled with other night mothers, now has access to a large amount of magic wielders who have the ability to raise an army from the dead. Who's to say the initial star destroyers in hiding may just be moth balling right now uncrewed, but thrawn now has access to an infinite amount of military personnel. Enough to where he can man as many ships as he wants as long as their are bodies to raise with magic. He now has an X factor that the empire only wish they had. A truly unlimited supply of personnel to throw at an enemy with no fear and no independent thought.
@@Biggy_QuesoI doubt zombies could operate something as intricate as Imperial class Star Destroyer, they are more of a fast and strong canon foder than anything else, they don't even used weapons at all, using warship is as such virtually impossible. Faction in the council willing for Thrawn to take the lead wish it because they see him as hope for the empire, the genious wich can beat New Republic even when outnumbered and outmatched to ridiculous degree. But if he decide to abandon empire do they would obey? Chimaera crew without doubt would obey, forces of other imperial warlords? Not so much, perhaps he could persuade some of them with data on lovecraftian horrors from unknown regions, but he would persuade only the ones wich truly wish to protect the galaxy, not the power-hungry ones, wich are the most of them. ...It could be another explanation why first order was so incredibly incompetent in the first place, everyone truly believing in the peace and stability would be zooming around unknown regions, battling with all kinds of nightmares. It would also allow creation of empire of the hand and only more stories with Thrawn, considering that he could stay alive because he do not attack new republic, or even return after first order was defeated and make real heir to the empire. I don't think that he could claim to his home, Chiss posess very powerfull navy, althought they don't have that much star destroyer-sized vessels, they have many heavy cruisers(Vader said that althought smalled than ISD, those would prove worthy opponent), even more light cruisers and actual dreadnoughts (Ar'alani said that dreadnoughts are from slightly smaller to one and a half bigger from her Nightdragon man-of-war), not even taking into account fact that they officers are on entirely another tier in comparior to most factions in the galaxy. That said, Chiss Ascendancy was in bad shape when we last heard about it in comics, and other factions around them were not even aproximetely as powerfull and could be subjugated with relative ease by fleet of ISD's, that is, unless Thrawn will make Empire of the Hand in a way he made it in legends, in wich case there will be no subjugating minor factions.
That’s my strategy on empire at war, consolidate the fleet early on in a space campaign. Spread and dominate after the fleet is established. The Eclipse is now canon again!? AWWWW YEAH
I do that, too. Playing as the Mandalorians. I even set up 'defense groups' to block enemy fleets from the Core Worlds, while my 'attack groups' swept through the Outer Rim, and dealt with the Pirate Groups.
It may be that Thrawn reconnoiters with Pelion’s forces and they travel to Chiss Ascendency territory to battle the Grisk or Yuzong Vong forces as was Thrawn’s original mission. That’s why Thrawn never is seen after his return. Just a thought.
Alan I have a theory of Thrawns actions post Ahsoka and want your thoughts; I don’t think he will try to gain the remnant mostly on his side, due to his alliance with the night sisters he won’t join palpatine. Those two groups don’t mesh. I think he will let the first order and thus the imperial remnant fight the new republic and he will fight the remains as a post Palpatine/ post episode 9 villain. What do you think?
Do chriss even live that long? I doubt that's the case since the TFA takes place like 24-25 years later. Thrawn ought to be like 90-100 by then. My assumption off my Google search is that chriss live to be 80
@@Jezus14 Chiss have a lifespan the same as humans, Thrawn was 59 at the end of Rebels. Mando takes place in 9 ABY, five years after the Battle of Endor but we don't know how much time has passed between Mando S1 and S3. Ahsoka takes place after Mando S3, if we assume that Ahsoka and all seasons of Mandalorian take place in the same year, Thrawn would be 70 years old in the current timeline. I wouldn't think too hard about it, I doubt Filoni has, and if he did; he'll probably pull something out of his ass to make Thrawn live longer.
@@FireAngel-zt4gt hello fireangel I'm sorry to disappoint you after doing the math but TFA takes place about 30 years after episode 6. So you have to add 30 years to whatever age you calculated to figure out his ST age because that's what we're looking for, not his current age
I had a theory. I came to your newest video to share it. In Jedi: Fallen Order, Cal Kestis has a vision where an ancient Zeffo speaks to him. The Zeffo says he ''lead his civilization into the great unknown''. This was interpreted as either the unknown regions, or more metaphorically, as in death. But what if the Zeffo was referring to Peridea? We see text on Peridea with resemblance to Zeffo text, and you know, another galaxy seems pretty unknown to me.
Those boxes that were loaded may be night sisters that the witches may raise, and Thrawn bringing them back to Dathomir first, may be a promise he made to the three mothers for their help in getting him back to his hime galaxy.
Actually ahsoka was only one of several characters "NOT" willing to do what was needed to prevent Thrawns return. I mean she had the map in hand for probably days before anyone else saw it and all she had to do was Saber it to destroy it and boom no Thrawn. Instead she preaches at Sabine to do the right thing when even she wasn't willing to do the right thing
The Mandalorian, Chapter 23 (spoiler warning) Gideon: "We individually scrape and claw resources, awaiting the grand plan to take shape, while you and Pellaeon amass countless resources and equipment, which, should be shared." Pellaeon approves of Gideon's request for more TIE Interceptors and Bombers, only after an explanation. Commandant Hux fulfills the request after a nod from Pellaeon to proceed. With his resources that he had to scrape and claw together, he built an entire underground base and scientific development facility on a glassed full of hostile fauna and primitives. He also outfitted an entire battalion of stormtroopers with Beskar armor looted from Mandalorian dead. That's pretty impressive for scraping and clawing. I'm hoping we see proper Star Destroyers in action for more than one battle and episode under Thrawn.
Good Question ? How Large is the Imperial Remnant Fleet ? Honestly , does it really matter ? It will all be destroyed by the Super Boss Girls Team ... Jedi Goddess Ahsoka , Sabine Mando-jedi Hybrid, Booty Hera , and the Sith trailer girl Shin Hati with the no support from Money Mothma and her minions.
this video touched on a very serious issue with thrawn's return. he isn't mentioned once, not even off handedly, in any canon materials that take place after the ahsoka series, meaning that unless disney retcons the sequel trilogy then he can't have any significant impact on the galaxy
With the whole, thrawn trilogy book series vibe I’m getting from how they are setting up Star Wars now, I’d say they would give captain peleon three to twenty ISDs to meet thrawn at dathomir, then I feel like it’ll just snowball like the books, thrawn will start winning battle after battle and gaining the loyalty of the other members of the shadow council until thrawn is de-facto leader of the remnant
Why did the New Republic not re-purpose former imperial fleet assets into part of the New Republic Fleet, rather than scrapping them? Surely, that would have been a more prudent move, until Imperial Remnant assets had been taken of the board.
Watching this video makes me remembered why the Republic should just stayed at the Core Worlds and the Colonies. But can the Republic stayed just there and survived? If the Byzantine Empire that mainly consisted of just some parts of the Balkans, Anatolia and Crete can survived for many more centuries, then the Republic will be doing just fine staying at the Core Worlds and the Colonies while allowing the rest of the galaxy to develop their own polities with their own laws and cultures.
Keep in mind that in the real world, we never have 100% of our assets operational at any one time. Typically we only have about 1/3 of any asset on ready rotation, 1/3 in reserve and 1/3 undergoing some kind of maintenance. I would have to assume it's the same in the Star Wars universe. So let's say even half of the Imperial fleet is available at any one time, that's still not a lot of ships compared to the number of worlds in the galaxy. How impressive then is it?
We know that he's going to somehow be gone (likely dead) before the events of the Sequel fanfictions, but it makes us wonder what he might have accomplished if he'd survived to command the Supremacy, oversee the use and defense of the Starkiller Base, and what he might have been able to do with Palpatine's Exagol fleet.
He’s an old Chiss at this point, he’d be significantly beyond Chiss life expectancy by the time of the sequels. He’s in his early to mid 70s at the time of Ahsoka.
@@ernstfrutphlinguhr2494 I legitimately wonder if common mortality is much of a concern for him now that he has the allegiance of nightmothers infamous for reanimating the dead. I'm sure they have magic for extending normal lifespans as well.
I was disappointed by it, Alan is usually better than that. She probably won't ever see this video, but I'm tired of that kind of mean-spirited joke. Too much of that in the Star Wars fandom. Besides, I've always thought she was pretty cute.
So in a way, operation cinder was like pruning a hedge or doing a controlled burn, purging a group of dangerous and ineffective leaders so that the greater core can thrive.
Depending on how many shipyards are decommissioning star destroyers, Thrawn could just show up and plunder a couple to get started. I'm hoping we see him pop in to Mount Tantiss and start cloning his crews.
At the end of WWII, not all of the military equipment had been destroyed or captured in battle. Much of it was surrendered when the war ended and commanders realized that they could either accept the inevitable, or they could fight to a bloody and futile end.
A question that should be asked, is how many of those Imperial Star destroyers defected to the new republic after the emperors death. How many of their commands crews fully bought the party line, and how many were just serving to keep the galaxy stable?
Thrawn doesn’t need super weapons. He needs a healthy fleet with competent subordinates. Like Captain Pelleon, Commnder Eli Vanto, and Rear Admiral Faro
So ied would have thought that each of the Moffs we saw in mando season 3 would have had a SD or maybe a SSD but we saw Gidion only had a light cruiser as his flagship and while it’s not a ship to underestimate it’s still not a star destroyer. So while ied have originally guessed at least 12 SDs now I’m not too sure ied think they must nave at least one or two not counting the chimera.
It seems the New Republic did more than half the work for the Imps; they wanted to ignore/forget the stupid amount of remaining personal and equipment/vehicles. True, that is also a stupid amount of logistics to maintain longterm; even if the Imps all consolidated resources and ships. Still, the Imperial Remnant seems less responsible for their ultimate success than the New Republic deliberately allowing them to by pulling a “see no evil, speak no evil, hear no evil” move.
My headcannon - legends and cannon - was that a lot of the 25,000 ISDs were cannibalized for spare parts by the imperial remant as their logistics chains eroded to nothing, specifically the older models made right after the clone wars. A lot of their logistics choices would come down to, "what's more effective - a whole, fully functioning ISD 2, or two ISD 2s functioning at 60% capacity due to battle damage and crew losses? Would we rather have this ISD 1 functioning at 75% capacity for 6 months, or 2 Victory SDs, 3 Nebulon Bs and a dozen corvettes continuing to operate at 100% for another year if we scrap the Isd 1 for parts they need?" As they lost more and more factory, shipyard and repair/resupply hub worlds capable of maintaining/replacing large star destroyers, to keep ISDs in effective fighting condition required stripping battle damaged and worn out models for the ones that could be saved. For example, if you lose control of many of the systems that produced and assembled the parts for an ISD's main sublight drive engines so that the parts/engines that need replacing outpaces the production still at your disposal, then the only option you have left for parts is other, older ISDs that are less costly to salvage for needed parts than if you tried to keep them in fighting condition. I always figured many of those 25,000 ended up as derelict, parts-stripped frames still orbiting medium-to-small shipyard worlds the remnant still controlled later into the stages of the galactic civil war before the empire's military capacity was worn down to the point even those worlds were abandoned. I visualize NR fleets arriving to these systems to "liberate" them after the imperial bases had already been abandoned for months, with dozens of scuttled ISD "skeletons" littering the orbital dock yards, stripped of any useful parts that could be used to repair other elements of their fleets.
I still want to know why they built a huge, custom, ring ship to bring back the Chimera rather than just fit a transport large enough for Thrawn, his crew, and his archeological finds with an intergalactic hyperdrive? Especially with it being half held together with Bondo, it doesn't seem like the ship itself was worth it.
Thrawn doesn't criticize art. He analyzes it. To be more accurate, his talent is analysis of all things. His powers of observation are so keen that he can discern all the information that an artist puts in thier art, both consciously and subconsciously.
I think Thrawn's strategy isn't to go after the republic, but to create a 3rd party threat such as the Dathomir witches or the Mandalorians. He then carves out some new Empire space while appearing to actually benefit the New Republic, laying the groundwork for the first order territory being tolerated in the sequels before they fire the starkiller. The protagonists will see through this and fight against him with limited resources but the new republic as a whole will see a faction of moderate imperials who simply want to establish their own territory in a less centralised galaxy. Although im not too familiar with Thrawn as a character from what I have heard he isn't actually very politically savvy so i may be wrong or his political tactics are driven by another character.
Alan even with increased automation, finding enough warm bodies to keep crew levels up will be a problem. Look at Moff Gideon, His light cruiser crew had to be close to skelton crew strength.
If amongst his hidden Imperial remnant fleet the writers decide to bring in the Doomgiver or other star destroyers in that same class imma lose it. If anyone can use that type of vessel effectively it’s Thrawn
I don't know what more unbelievable. The Imperials could fumble their fleet so hard as to loose almost all of it in two years, or some one who has ever watch start wars thinking it makes no sense the imperials would fumble that hard.
My theory is that thrawn is going to fight the new republic and create the first order before eventually either dieing getting captured or leaving after realizing that old scrotum face (palpatine) is still alive and running the show.
Alan Alan Alan, love the video, just a side note, Tigers were really tough tanks, hey they were designed to withstand a frontal hit from their own main gun but there were only 1,347 Tiger I tanks produced in WW2, while the Russians made 84,000 t34's and the US made 48,000 Sherman's, then there were the British and the rest of the Allies. From a combat standpoint the Tiger is strategically insignificant, even if they had had full logistical support they would have been outnumbered 200 to 1 and those were mere machines not Jedi's.
Stuff like this is why i think Disney cannon is stupid. The whole idea of Jakku is totally dumb. Legends may have a lot of wacky stuff in it, but they at least figured out how to realistically sun set the Empire.
That breakdown in the supply lines could've explained Thrawn's losses on Peridea much better than what we got. His whole ship looks ramshackle; like it's running on fumes. How much of the Chimaera's hardware still works properly? What of his stormtroopers' weapons? There are no factories and forges to make new parts with on Peridea nor are there fresh supplies of weapons' parts and ammunition. Maybe if they had shown a stormtrooper firing an E-Web cannon that then misfires and shuts down from malfunction (or whatever) to show their equipment sucks now after a decade without servicing, the audience could be left to assume, "Oh, Thrawn WOULD HAVE won had his weapons and equipment been in tip-top shape," instead of the jedi making a mockery of his forces. I still want to know what happened to his officers. Were they just executed or were they cannibalized (why not both...waste not, want not I suppose)
I disagree- any dreadnought represents too many resources in a single location, the same resources spread across dozens of cruisers and star destroyers can assert tactical control over a much larger area of space... I'd be loath to see Thrawn commanding anything larger than a battlecruiser
On a somewhat unrelated note, on the Rebel's strategy on defeating the Empire is pretty much what Ukraine has been doing fighting against Russia's military, yes of course (on paper) Russia *had* 10,000 plus tanks but Ukraine never needed to destroy every single one of those tanks, Ukraine instead attacked supply depots, communication centers, generals, and other more vulnerable systems which supported the frontline units and thus weakening them if not just indirectly destroying said units.
Actually taking out an ISD isn’t that expensive in war material. 24 modified light freighters with 24 Y-Wings all armed with proton torpedoes can take out an ISD. A cost of $12.5M credits could take out a ISD and it’s compliment worth $240M credits
Hell, one doomed A-wing pilot with nothing to lose took out Vader's SSD once its shields had been reduced. And don't even get me started about the Holdo Maneuver... Suddenly any idiot with a hyperdrive has a superweapon.
@@garavin Hell the Nova Flare tactic used by Rogue Squadron only required firing a bunch of proton torpedoes at a fighter and then have that fighter fly straight toward an ISD. 120 could overwhelm the shields and destroy the ship. What’s that $400k credits not counting the ships firing the torpedoes to do $240M worth of damage. Worth it.
I understand the value of secracy, that palpetine could not draw 1 or 2 star destroyers away from every sector fleet and just have them waiting without the rebels realising that it was a trap, but wasn't the order given for thousands of star destroyers to jump to the battle (to absolutely guarentee a win) before jumping back to their own systems after the battles conclusion?
So, I know this won’t happen but hear me out. Thrawns return is what they use to over-ride the new trilogy lore and we get a significantly better sequel to the original trilogy. Long live the empire!
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What is that scene with the red palpatine puppet from?
Love the vids, but fuck war thunder it's not worth playing
Hey I got a question what do you think of the possibility, thrawn is simply becoming senile? I mean he’s been exiled for over decade, he’s probably been very stressed out trying to appease the witches, maintain his forces and has likely suffered many failures if he was unable to capture Ezra. All that plus the fact he’s now old, could of damaged his brilliant mind and I think that be kinda poetic, these rements cling onto a past that’s long gone, what’s left is old and worn out.
I suspect they are introducing Abeloth as the future corruptor of Kylo Ren. Thrawn will set up the First order and Abeloth will grow it. She will bring down Luke's new Jedi Order, only to be defeated/banished by Luke or Ahsoka. Kylo Ren rises from the power vacuum. Luke goes into self-imposed exile, like Yoda without the excuse of old age.
Though it’s unknown how big Thrawns fleet or the new republics fleet are, I really hope to see some large fleet battles especially with the advances in CGI
Sadly the CG research and development seems to be for VOLUME rather then proper space battles
Enjoy the wait lol
The space battles we should’ve gotten in the sequels
recall in the movie they blew up the new rep. guy also the new rep. becomes the new sith empire within 250 years so what?
@@theliato3809
Oof 😓
"It's not the size of the fleet it's how you use it"-Thrawn
Thrawn giving pick up line advice now?!
One word: Logistics
It doesn't matter how many ISDs are sitting out there. Even with automation circuits so they can run with skeleton crews, each of those ships inhales millions of tons of hypermatter just to keep the lights on. The remnant would need an immense logistical operation to keep their ships fueled, supplied with air, food, water, etc. They had entire planetary systems dedicated just to supplying the resources to keep the fleet flying. Most of that is either gone or out of reach after Jakku, meaning that they most likely can only field a miniscule fraction of the ships they have on hand.
Add to that the dearth of experienced crews, and even the ships that were operational were likely to be inhabited by less-capable officers and crews. So they could be sitting on tens of thousands of ships, thousands of ISDs, but only able to field a tiny percentage, and that having reduced combat effectiveness due to the quality of leadership and crew competence.
That said, I agree that at this point the Remnant really don't need a lot of ships. The NR is weak and repeating the same mistakes that led to its dissolution two decades earlier. The fact is that militarily, neither organization is much of a threat to the other. The best they can do is snipe at each other while they try to hold onto their respective power centers and rebuild themselves. From that standpoint, Palpatine's contingency plan kind of worked.
Excellently put. Napoleon once said, "Strategy wins battles. Logistics wins wars."
Well I would say that first, as a Chiss, he has knowledge of the unknown regions and its resources, as well as his people.
As an imperial grand admiral he would have knowledge of pretty much all imperial strongholds, supply depots etc except palpatines secret things - some things that still may not be be under new republic control, or easy to take from them as they can’t guard it all at once.
And with time and surprise (for the moment) on his side as they gear up to face him or see how real a threat he is- he can do a few things. Ones like Pellaeon are still loyal to him, and will quickly and easily side with thrawn and hand over control of any and all assets they have, and the dark council made it clear that they control a decent amount of resources - since Gideon was asking for some for himself. No doubt they keep their own strength hidden so as not to tangle with the new republic in a super costly or unwinnable engagement.
And lastly mandalorian and Ashoka have made it abundantly clear that something fishy is going on with many many imperials in positions all throughout the new republic from intelligence, and information on coruscant to shipbuilding and such on Correllia, many of which are still loyal and sympathetic to the empire, who will easily and quickly jump to his side as well, probably stealing ships and supplies, sabotaging new republic things- or one thing in theorizing is a katana/black fleet situation where all those fancy nice new ships are able to be slaved to his control from under new republic noses and he can build a fleet that way, maybe even with minimal to no crew at all piloting them.
And yet the nr will win somehow and I bet you luke, han and leias role would be minimal to none for some reason all so we can continue to the garbage sequel trilogy
Really interesting post but I think Operation Cinder was a bad move it doesnt fit in with the scheming Sith more with a petty tyrant throwing his toys out of the pram. It denied resources to any Imperial forces and made any still loyal systems more likely to seek peace with the New Republic as who wants to support someone who may destroy your planet on a whim. I wish writers wouldn't keep relying on what Hitler did as inspiration for their stories. Hitler didn't see the German people coming back Palpatine always planned on coming back.
I don’t think Thrawn “lost a step” on Peridia; I think he had one VERY clear objective (get back to the GFFA) and VERY limited resources after nearly a decade of being stranded. He set up a multi-layered rearguard defensive action while preparing to retreat to slow down very capable opponents with powers his forces couldn’t contend with while sacrificing the fewest number of pieces. Even his sacrifice of Morgan Elsbeth was a choice to give up a valuable piece on the board to make sure he still won the game. Even if you say, for instance, “Why didn’t he destroy the tomb while the Jedi were still inside?”-he couldn’t! He needed to pull the Chimaera out of position above the fortress to be able to safely destroy it.
Thrawn won. He achieved his objective. Was it a clean victory? No. But it was far better than anyone else would have managed.
As for how he was portrayed in Rebels … I have my issues with that, but chalk it up to him being the villain in a children’s cartoon rather than a nuanced character in a series of full-length novels written for grown-ups. 🤷🏻♂️
I like this one. Good work😊
I agree. Good take.
Btw this is coming from someone who didn't really enjoy Ahsoka but loved Rebels and Thrawn's depiction there
Anyone else would had close and locked all the doors in the tower to slow the enemys down, like the enemys did to slow down his rag army.
Anyone else also wouldnt help the enemy to reunite.
Anyone else, especialty not the real Thrawn, wouldnt had trouble to find Ezra and his hermit crabs.
Imposter Thrawn didnt won, he just somehow didnt lose, because his enemys were equally stupid.
If the Imposter didnt send 2 Tie Fighter "to slow the enemy down", Ashoka and the caravan of hermit crabs would still move with the speed of a tectonic plate towarts the tower.
@@wolf310ii its just because it had to appeal to the tv shows. dw thrawn didnt lose a step
I still worry about how he'll be written in movies intended for a mainstream audience. If he's treated with the care of the lesser Imperials in Andor, he'll be the deific Thrawn we know from the books. If not . . . I expect he'll be a shadow of his true self.
I desperately, desperately hope they consult Timothy Zahn when writing his upcoming movie.
Ships don't sail themselves. Currently it takes between 6 to 9 people to support 1 warfighter out in the field. Now add to that the complication of maintaining logistics chains, recruiting and training replacement personnel. Intelligence gathering activities and all the specialised technology required by each of those individual skillsets.
Even if the ships were heavily automated, they could be easily damaged and taken out of the fight for months or permanently because the replacement parts aren't available and cannot be replaced.
If Thrawn's story parallels what happened in the books, then he will rally a decent portion of the imperial remnants to his side, lead a series of hit and run attacks against a number of new republic worlds and forces, and finally die by betrayal of someone whom he thought loyalty and steadfast. I know that it's over simplified but that's the basic gist of it and about as close to the original story as Disney's likely to get. Assuming that they even bother to begin with.
think Enoch will kill Thrawn?
It was actually his own assassin/bodyguard that killed him because he found out that Thrawn was using biological warfare on his home world but yeah I hope Disney goes with that route
It's going to be a reverse rebellion situation where people fall in line against the New Republic, remembering only the order of what the Empire was but none of the bad things because that's how humans are we just forget about the bad stuff
@@anthonyluetmer8499 With the Nightsisters plot, I'm thinking that Sidious' role in the massacre on Dathomir might come to light...making it an echo of the noghri story
How many remnants are even left that are worth rallying?
If it's anything like the Mandalorian fleet, numbers will vary wildly from scene to scene and change as needed.
An unusual but interesting oponent for Thraw could be Kalani - the super tactical droid who refused his deactivation command - if he had ressources, perhaps as a contracted military force for the Verpines... He could be deadly , and Ezra is not a stranger for him...
Some punchlines could be thrown to Thrawn by him:
"You don't know me , but I know you" , "It's ironic for the heir to the empire to be destroyed by a fully operational war machine", "I'm the separatists revenge"...
The explanation might be really obvious. 80% of the surviving fleet was sent to Exogal to be retrofitted for Palpatine's return. 10% of the fleet was destroyed. 10% of the fleet is being run by warlords.
Yeah, that's honestly the only explanation I can think of that would explain the presence of all of those star destroyers
@@falsevacuum4667 the Xystons would have required atleast 2 star destroyers for 1 Xyston meaning the entire fleet was scrapped and rebuilt
I don’t think that was 80% of the entire fleet, even that fleet at exegil looked too small. I wouldn’t be shocked if many were build in subterranean facilities.
I think the 80% of the imperial fleet that you are referring to is different from the exegol fleet. I just found out the xystons are already under construction during the reign of the empire so that means those xystons are basically backups for the main fleet of the empire. Checkout the wiki history of the xyston class star destroyer. Correct me if I'm wrong.
@@BaroneMarcus-jv3jt The Wiki says the 1000 Xystons were built years after the Galactic Civil War and were derived from original ISDs. Old ISDs stripped for parts to make the new double size planet killer Xyston ISD. Would also explain where all crew came from.
Thrawn isn't an art critic, he looks at art as if he were looking at the soul of the artist and their people. He draws an understanding of what they are and how they will behave by what he observes in the artwork. There is no judgement or criticism when looking at the art. You say he doesn't create anything; I say that he creates masterpieces of battlefield strategy.
Create destruction, wreak havoc, sow discord...
In the comics there was scene where Vader stumbled across the Exogal fleet. The strength Palpatine expressed by showing Vader a glimpse of his future plan was one of the reasons Vader stayed loyal and clung to the dark side
Exogol does not exist, Wren is Stimpys' pal, and Rey is a drop of golden sun...
@@seanhewitt603 ?
English
@@Shark_boiiiii !
> "The Imperial Fleet is scattered and disorganised..."
So let's give them all the time they need to recover.
I hope thrawn can find some acclamtor assault ships because they are ridiculously fast with a .6 hyper drive speed and can cross the galaxy top to bottom twice on the same tank of fuel and each can also carry plenty of ground forces
Seeing Thrawn's tactics play out in Live-Action with good CGI shall hopefully prove to be spectacular. You wager Filoni has read the Thrawn Trilogies?
(Both Canon/Legends?)
Honestly, I don't think he did. I think he's only uses characters that have great reputation. Thrawn's forces being so clumsy is kinda a clue that he doesn't know how Thrawn inspires excellence in his forces in the books.
A lot of Zahn books glorify the Empire, how can you be a fan of Thrawn and Zahn and always portray Empire as incompetent?
This brings up something that sci-fi has never really done a good job of showing and that's fleet sizes. Like, the Battle of Endor looked big but if you count it out there's only a few dozen capital ships present. I can't think of any kind of live action work that's ever shown truly massive fleets.
Revenge of the Sith had absolutely massive fleets shown
Mass effect 3 final battle
Battle of coruscant
I don't think Thrawns ego is rising or sharpness is lacking or dropping. I think he had to be more boatsful and egotistical in order to to keep his soldiers in line and the Great Mothers subdued. If anything it could just be rusty and will quickly adapt to the new Republic tactics and doctrine.
I agree with you. Thrawn isn't dumb, he's just a wounded animal hiding his injuries and projecting power and confidence to mask how bad the situation really is. He made the mistakes he made on Peridea like staying docked to long, not sending out more TIEs, and not shutting doors because he actually couldn't.
Think about how much Thrawn has told Pellaeon before he disappeared. I feel the good captain knows a great many things that the rest of the shadow council does not. After all that time in exile, you'd think Thrawn has already figured out a plan once he returned. This presumably means access to bases, assets, and holdings that were already under Thrawn and Pellaeon's control or influence. Idk. I feel the cannon Thrawn campaign will be long and large.
I hope so
Thrawn had some resources, but nothing near what the Empire had. In the books Thrawn stole some remote mining machines from Lando Calrissian to break into several Min Calamari cruisers at Sluis Van, and tried to get the Katana fleet dreadnoughts. If Thrawn had more resources he would have built more Star Destroyers rather than putting so much effort into stealing Republic ships.
Re: why didn't Palpatine amass the entire fleet at Endor: Mon Mothma said the fleet was scattered chasing the Rebellion. Palpatine needed to maintain that pretense to make the trap believable.
Definitely got a point here. Putting a number on the ISD fleet was a mistake, wherever that first entered canon. It sounds like a reasonable number for a galaxy spanning empire, but at the same time it doesn't sound like enough. And the only on screen massive engagement shown was Exogol, which doesn't count for this issue and introduced a whole other set of issues.
TBH, that 25K ISD figure was probably mostly propaganda. Kind of like how Russia way outguns the Western powers in terms of the number of tanks in their inventory, but when you look at them you find many are not combat capable, they've been stripped of parts, or were never delivered due to corruption, or have no fuel and ammo (also due to corruption). So much of the Imperial war machine relied on sector Moffs to organize and maintain those forces that I'm pretty sure their real strength was a lot less that their reported strength. It's just too big a temptation for the local Imperial officials to siphon off those credits into their own private slush funds at the Bank of Aargau.
Makes me wonder, all those star destroyers at Exegol may not have all been built there, eh? Perhaps they were mothballed and refitted.
I hope this is the case and Palpatine had been secretly diverting a percentage of all star destroyers built for the entire history of the Empire, plus other resources and staff/cultists.
Disney really messed up starwars and they don’t care
Then there are the ISDs that have been mothballed. 20% of the surviving fleet was sent to Exogal to be retrofitted for Palpatine's return. 10% of the fleet was destroyed. 30% of the fleet is being run by warlords. 25% of the fleet is dead in the water and sitting in protected moth balls, 10% is awaiting the breakers in the core worlds like Ferax because it costs money to scrap a ship. 10% is being used by independent worlds after significant refits to act as the core of local defense fleets.
Here is the real size of the imperial navy. 13 exsecutor class dreadnoughts, which were outnumbered by no more than 100 smaller dreadnoughts of 5-8k meters. Which were out numbered by no more then 400-600 battle cruisers of 2-4k meters which were outnumbered by 25,000 imperial class star destroyers. Which was outnumbered by more smaller star destroyers. Which were outnumbered by other capital ship classes of 500-600 meters. Which was out numbered by light cruisers, frigates and small carriers. Which was out numbers by corvettes and ships less then 200 meters. And then those were outnumbered. By gunboats. And then shuttles, gunships and fighters.
Around 100 dreadnaught
400-600 battle cruisers
25,000 star destroyers.
75,000 other smaller star destroyer varrients
140,000 other capital ships:
360,000 frigates and cruisers and carriers
800,000 corvettes, transports, and freighters.
1,600,000 gunboats
4-5 million shuttles
10-15 million gunships
Tens of millions of fighters.
Very conservative number btw
He doesn’t really have a fleet. He was exiled with only the chimera and its crew/compliment.
There’s nothing left for him to rally since it’s been years after the imperial forces were crushed at jakku
I believe that, like the world between worlds, it has significant ties to the father son and daughter the force. Thrawn is either bringing back dead warriors or weapons. When you think about it, the reason why he's going back to Dathomir is ground work for the night mother's is already done it's a place strong with the force and has alter they could probably mend using witchcraft but I could be wrong. Well, in the rebel series, each planet had about 6 star ship destroyers hovering about in the planets atmosphere or above. Each star destroyer carries Imperial I-class Star Destroyers had over 37,000 crew on board- 9,235 officers and 27,850 enlisted personnel. The complement of 9,700 stormtroopers added to a total of 46,785 crew and passengers.
Am I the only one here who hopes that the Grysks from the Thrawn books end up becoming the main villains? And perhaps it will come to pass that the Imperial Remnant under Thrawn and the New Republic end up having to unite to stop them from taking all of lesser space and the Chiss Ascendancy? Probably not going to happen, but it would be awesome.
I hoped that is what happened because it will led to the official establishment of relations between the Third Republic and the Chiss Ascendancy.
As long as they brought in Ar’alani and Vanto. 👍🏼
YES! Don’t give me another imp and reb story!!!!
Allan’s view out his window is dope, it actually looks kinda like Coruscant.
The problem with writing a super-genius, is that you have to be one to write for one
Just remember how little Thrawn had in the books or with what Pellaeon worked in the Orinda Campaign...That wasn't much and they still reeked havoc (until being assassinated or in Gilads case loosing too much capital ships to Wedge and the Lusankya). I wouldn't be surprised if Filoni pulls something like the Dominion out of a Nebula for Pellaeon to command.
I think most of the Imperial Fleet was brought to Exegol to be modified, a question many people wondered when the Rise of Skywalker cam out, is how palps constructed so many ships in the time that he had. The modification of current Star Destroyers could be an explanation and if so it would prove a good answer to what thrawn is left with
Problem is while those look like ISDs with a big cannon, they are actually much larger, really they are scaled up. So even if that is what happened that would still be a lot of manpower and recourses.
A good phrase to discuss this is you would rather fight 1000 lions led by a sheep than 1000 sheep led by a lion.
2 questions/ topics.
Knowing Dave and how he loves bringing back legends material. Do you think thrawn will end up trying to locate the eclipse in order to try to solidify his grip over the remnants?
Also do you think he'll even want to continue trying to fight for the empire? His whole reason for being with the empire was to protect his homeworld and people the chiss. But with no empire and a barely held together New republic, might thrawn just decide to take his own resources and meet up with his own people to try and fortify their part of the galaxy? I asks this primarily due to the fact that we see no mention of the chiss or thrawn in the sequal trilogy, and thrawn pretty much being the "savior" of the empire, we'd have heard of him in novels or something. But he's found no where. There may be a conflict between thrawn and another remnant leader and I believe this is where the thrawn movie will begin. A final civil war between the remnants before the Victor goes into hiding to create the first/ final order.
Kinda fan theorizing there but I'm trying to piece it together.
Well, Chimaera is not only in bad shape, but it is just one ISD, there is no way it is going to help much Chiss, and there is no way for Imperial warlords to just go into unknown regions and fight for some alien civilisation they had never heard of before, not unless Thrawn will estabilish himself as powerfull leader before making that order.
@marcelgrabowski5939 I agree. There's already a faction in the council that wants thrawn to lead. However with the state of the empire/ now remnant forces, he may decide to pull his forces into a new direction. No more empire to serve but they may choose to serve thrawn. If he returns to his homeworld with a fleet of his own he may just take claim of his part of the galaxy. BUT we still run into the issue of the other remnant warlords who won't follow thrawn because of their own orders from operation cinder and operation Phoenix I believe? I can't remember at this very second it's name.
But we Also not forget, thrawn has access to, if those containers are filled with other night mothers, now has access to a large amount of magic wielders who have the ability to raise an army from the dead. Who's to say the initial star destroyers in hiding may just be moth balling right now uncrewed, but thrawn now has access to an infinite amount of military personnel. Enough to where he can man as many ships as he wants as long as their are bodies to raise with magic. He now has an X factor that the empire only wish they had. A truly unlimited supply of personnel to throw at an enemy with no fear and no independent thought.
@@Biggy_QuesoI doubt zombies could operate something as intricate as Imperial class Star Destroyer, they are more of a fast and strong canon foder than anything else, they don't even used weapons at all, using warship is as such virtually impossible.
Faction in the council willing for Thrawn to take the lead wish it because they see him as hope for the empire, the genious wich can beat New Republic even when outnumbered and outmatched to ridiculous degree. But if he decide to abandon empire do they would obey? Chimaera crew without doubt would obey, forces of other imperial warlords? Not so much, perhaps he could persuade some of them with data on lovecraftian horrors from unknown regions, but he would persuade only the ones wich truly wish to protect the galaxy, not the power-hungry ones, wich are the most of them.
...It could be another explanation why first order was so incredibly incompetent in the first place, everyone truly believing in the peace and stability would be zooming around unknown regions, battling with all kinds of nightmares. It would also allow creation of empire of the hand and only more stories with Thrawn, considering that he could stay alive because he do not attack new republic, or even return after first order was defeated and make real heir to the empire.
I don't think that he could claim to his home, Chiss posess very powerfull navy, althought they don't have that much star destroyer-sized vessels, they have many heavy cruisers(Vader said that althought smalled than ISD, those would prove worthy opponent), even more light cruisers and actual dreadnoughts (Ar'alani said that dreadnoughts are from slightly smaller to one and a half bigger from her Nightdragon man-of-war), not even taking into account fact that they officers are on entirely another tier in comparior to most factions in the galaxy.
That said, Chiss Ascendancy was in bad shape when we last heard about it in comics, and other factions around them were not even aproximetely as powerfull and could be subjugated with relative ease by fleet of ISD's, that is, unless Thrawn will make Empire of the Hand in a way he made it in legends, in wich case there will be no subjugating minor factions.
18:00 forward: Love the ambience. Fits well for this topic ^^
Palpatine: The rebels can't destroy the fleet of my Galactic Empire!
Also Palpatine: Fine, I do it myself.
That’s my strategy on empire at war, consolidate the fleet early on in a space campaign. Spread and dominate after the fleet is established.
The Eclipse is now canon again!? AWWWW YEAH
I do that, too. Playing as the Mandalorians. I even set up 'defense groups' to block enemy fleets from the Core Worlds, while my 'attack groups' swept through the Outer Rim, and dealt with the Pirate Groups.
It may be that Thrawn reconnoiters with Pelion’s forces and they travel to Chiss Ascendency territory to battle the Grisk or Yuzong Vong forces as was Thrawn’s original mission. That’s why Thrawn never is seen after his return. Just a thought.
Alan I have a theory of Thrawns actions post Ahsoka and want your thoughts; I don’t think he will try to gain the remnant mostly on his side, due to his alliance with the night sisters he won’t join palpatine. Those two groups don’t mesh. I think he will let the first order and thus the imperial remnant fight the new republic and he will fight the remains as a post Palpatine/ post episode 9 villain. What do you think?
yes
Do chriss even live that long? I doubt that's the case since the TFA takes place like 24-25 years later. Thrawn ought to be like 90-100 by then. My assumption off my Google search is that chriss live to be 80
@@Jezus14uh .... magic?
@@Jezus14 Chiss have a lifespan the same as humans, Thrawn was 59 at the end of Rebels. Mando takes place in 9 ABY, five years after the Battle of Endor but we don't know how much time has passed between Mando S1 and S3. Ahsoka takes place after Mando S3, if we assume that Ahsoka and all seasons of Mandalorian take place in the same year, Thrawn would be 70 years old in the current timeline. I wouldn't think too hard about it, I doubt Filoni has, and if he did; he'll probably pull something out of his ass to make Thrawn live longer.
@@FireAngel-zt4gt hello fireangel I'm sorry to disappoint you after doing the math but TFA takes place about 30 years after episode 6. So you have to add 30 years to whatever age you calculated to figure out his ST age because that's what we're looking for, not his current age
I had a theory. I came to your newest video to share it.
In Jedi: Fallen Order, Cal Kestis has a vision where an ancient Zeffo speaks to him. The Zeffo says he ''lead his civilization into the great unknown''. This was interpreted as either the unknown regions, or more metaphorically, as in death. But what if the Zeffo was referring to Peridea? We see text on Peridea with resemblance to Zeffo text, and you know, another galaxy seems pretty unknown to me.
Those boxes that were loaded may be night sisters that the witches may raise, and Thrawn bringing them back to Dathomir first, may be a promise he made to the three mothers for their help in getting him
back to his hime
galaxy.
New word of the day: Stardecruisers. When you meant to say star cruisers but you’ve been saying star destroyers for the past 10 minutes.
Actually ahsoka was only one of several characters "NOT" willing to do what was needed to prevent Thrawns return. I mean she had the map in hand for probably days before anyone else saw it and all she had to do was Saber it to destroy it and boom no Thrawn. Instead she preaches at Sabine to do the right thing when even she wasn't willing to do the right thing
Episode 9 would of made more sense if instead of all new star destroyers, the missing ones were just fitted with the new planet gun
The Mandalorian, Chapter 23 (spoiler warning)
Gideon: "We individually scrape and claw resources, awaiting the grand plan to take shape, while you and Pellaeon amass countless resources and equipment, which, should be shared."
Pellaeon approves of Gideon's request for more TIE Interceptors and Bombers, only after an explanation. Commandant Hux fulfills the request after a nod from Pellaeon to proceed.
With his resources that he had to scrape and claw together, he built an entire underground base and scientific development facility on a glassed full of hostile fauna and primitives. He also outfitted an entire battalion of stormtroopers with Beskar armor looted from Mandalorian dead. That's pretty impressive for scraping and clawing. I'm hoping we see proper Star Destroyers in action for more than one battle and episode under Thrawn.
Victory Class Star Destroyers... "Are we a Joke to you, Senpai!?!?!?"
Loving the uploads!
Good Question ?
How Large is the Imperial Remnant Fleet ?
Honestly , does it really matter ? It will all be destroyed by the Super Boss Girls Team ...
Jedi Goddess Ahsoka , Sabine Mando-jedi Hybrid, Booty Hera , and the Sith trailer girl Shin Hati with the no support from Money Mothma and her minions.
Don’t apologize for not having more info Allen. Guarantee you know more than Dave Filoni and those in his writers room.
this video touched on a very serious issue with thrawn's return. he isn't mentioned once, not even off handedly, in any canon materials that take place after the ahsoka series, meaning that unless disney retcons the sequel trilogy then he can't have any significant impact on the galaxy
With the whole, thrawn trilogy book series vibe I’m getting from how they are setting up Star Wars now, I’d say they would give captain peleon three to twenty ISDs to meet thrawn at dathomir, then I feel like it’ll just snowball like the books, thrawn will start winning battle after battle and gaining the loyalty of the other members of the shadow council until thrawn is de-facto leader of the remnant
I would say Thrawn is an artist of strategy. He does it very well.
Why did the New Republic not re-purpose former imperial fleet assets into part of the New Republic Fleet, rather than scrapping them? Surely, that would have been a more prudent move, until Imperial Remnant assets had been taken of the board.
Watching this video makes me remembered why the Republic should just stayed at the Core Worlds and the Colonies. But can the Republic stayed just there and survived? If the Byzantine Empire that mainly consisted of just some parts of the Balkans, Anatolia and Crete can survived for many more centuries, then the Republic will be doing just fine staying at the Core Worlds and the Colonies while allowing the rest of the galaxy to develop their own polities with their own laws and cultures.
Keep in mind that in the real world, we never have 100% of our assets operational at any one time. Typically we only have about 1/3 of any asset on ready rotation, 1/3 in reserve and 1/3 undergoing some kind of maintenance. I would have to assume it's the same in the Star Wars universe. So let's say even half of the Imperial fleet is available at any one time, that's still not a lot of ships compared to the number of worlds in the galaxy. How impressive then is it?
Yeah, but this is Star Wars. If you try to make sense of it by real world standards, it will make your head explode.
Tge empire had 25k ISDs even if only 1% survived 250 Star Destroyers is a huge force
We know that he's going to somehow be gone (likely dead) before the events of the Sequel fanfictions, but it makes us wonder what he might have accomplished if he'd survived to command the Supremacy, oversee the use and defense of the Starkiller Base, and what he might have been able to do with Palpatine's Exagol fleet.
He’s an old Chiss at this point, he’d be significantly beyond Chiss life expectancy by the time of the sequels. He’s in his early to mid 70s at the time of Ahsoka.
@@ernstfrutphlinguhr2494 I legitimately wonder if common mortality is much of a concern for him now that he has the allegiance of nightmothers infamous for reanimating the dead. I'm sure they have magic for extending normal lifespans as well.
You really nailed it with that Sarah Aboloth Parker pic.
Did people start to puke, like in the South Park episode?
I was disappointed by it, Alan is usually better than that. She probably won't ever see this video, but I'm tired of that kind of mean-spirited joke. Too much of that in the Star Wars fandom. Besides, I've always thought she was pretty cute.
@@illyth63 oh stop crying, no horses were hurt in the making of his joke.
@@East10Outpost congratulations on your comedic originality and for proving my point.
You: rrrrrrrRRRRREEEEEEEEE
The uncertain status of the pants remnant in the unknown region is very intriguing, great video!
Thank you for putting my country’s flag up. Your support is much appreciated ❤️
💙🤍💙
So in a way, operation cinder was like pruning a hedge or doing a controlled burn, purging a group of dangerous and ineffective leaders so that the greater core can thrive.
Miggs Mayfeld would disagree
Depending on how many shipyards are decommissioning star destroyers, Thrawn could just show up and plunder a couple to get started. I'm hoping we see him pop in to Mount Tantiss and start cloning his crews.
At the end of WWII, not all of the military equipment had been destroyed or captured in battle. Much of it was surrendered when the war ended and commanders realized that they could either accept the inevitable, or they could fight to a bloody and futile end.
A question that should be asked, is how many of those Imperial Star destroyers defected to the new republic after the emperors death. How many of their commands crews fully bought the party line, and how many were just serving to keep the galaxy stable?
Thrawn doesn’t need super weapons. He needs a healthy fleet with competent subordinates. Like Captain Pelleon, Commnder Eli Vanto, and Rear Admiral Faro
So ied would have thought that each of the Moffs we saw in mando season 3 would have had a SD or maybe a SSD but we saw Gidion only had a light cruiser as his flagship and while it’s not a ship to underestimate it’s still not a star destroyer.
So while ied have originally guessed at least 12 SDs now I’m not too sure ied think they must nave at least one or two not counting the chimera.
At Endor, they didn't think they needed a huge fleet. They thought they set a trap, and they had a death star.
"Palpatine was looking for ancient secrets on Jakku"
Of course he was, what an unimaginative excuse
Yeah, don't know how many times my girl busted in on me. "I was just checking her for ancient secrets, lost to time, I swear!"
Lmao that made me laugh, seriously though they tried so hard to shoehorn and justify Jakkus existence and its shit lmao
0:14 I died laughing 💀
I’m not sure who she is, but I think I can guess.
Guy doesn’t need much to dominate. Just loyal commanders to his orders. As portrayed i. Rebels
It seems the New Republic did more than half the work for the Imps; they wanted to ignore/forget the stupid amount of remaining personal and equipment/vehicles. True, that is also a stupid amount of logistics to maintain longterm; even if the Imps all consolidated resources and ships. Still, the Imperial Remnant seems less responsible for their ultimate success than the New Republic deliberately allowing them to by pulling a “see no evil, speak no evil, hear no evil” move.
According to the Imperial defector Han Solo meets to help free the Wookies, light cruisers became extremely rare after Endor.
The last line is a test to see who watches through to the end? Right? RIGHT?
Thanks for another amazing video analysis!
My headcannon - legends and cannon - was that a lot of the 25,000 ISDs were cannibalized for spare parts by the imperial remant as their logistics chains eroded to nothing, specifically the older models made right after the clone wars. A lot of their logistics choices would come down to, "what's more effective - a whole, fully functioning ISD 2, or two ISD 2s functioning at 60% capacity due to battle damage and crew losses? Would we rather have this ISD 1 functioning at 75% capacity for 6 months, or 2 Victory SDs, 3 Nebulon Bs and a dozen corvettes continuing to operate at 100% for another year if we scrap the Isd 1 for parts they need?"
As they lost more and more factory, shipyard and repair/resupply hub worlds capable of maintaining/replacing large star destroyers, to keep ISDs in effective fighting condition required stripping battle damaged and worn out models for the ones that could be saved. For example, if you lose control of many of the systems that produced and assembled the parts for an ISD's main sublight drive engines so that the parts/engines that need replacing outpaces the production still at your disposal, then the only option you have left for parts is other, older ISDs that are less costly to salvage for needed parts than if you tried to keep them in fighting condition.
I always figured many of those 25,000 ended up as derelict, parts-stripped frames still orbiting medium-to-small shipyard worlds the remnant still controlled later into the stages of the galactic civil war before the empire's military capacity was worn down to the point even those worlds were abandoned. I visualize NR fleets arriving to these systems to "liberate" them after the imperial bases had already been abandoned for months, with dozens of scuttled ISD "skeletons" littering the orbital dock yards, stripped of any useful parts that could be used to repair other elements of their fleets.
I like that. Damn, I wish I had some graphic art skills.
Thrawn analyzes art not critiques it. Huge difference!
I still want to know why they built a huge, custom, ring ship to bring back the Chimera rather than just fit a transport large enough for Thrawn, his crew, and his archeological finds with an intergalactic hyperdrive? Especially with it being half held together with Bondo, it doesn't seem like the ship itself was worth it.
Because we can’t js leave the precious Chimera which is basically a representation of thrawn
Thrawn doesn't criticize art. He analyzes it. To be more accurate, his talent is analysis of all things. His powers of observation are so keen that he can discern all the information that an artist puts in thier art, both consciously and subconsciously.
I think Thrawn's strategy isn't to go after the republic, but to create a 3rd party threat such as the Dathomir witches or the Mandalorians. He then carves out some new Empire space while appearing to actually benefit the New Republic, laying the groundwork for the first order territory being tolerated in the sequels before they fire the starkiller.
The protagonists will see through this and fight against him with limited resources but the new republic as a whole will see a faction of moderate imperials who simply want to establish their own territory in a less centralised galaxy.
Although im not too familiar with Thrawn as a character from what I have heard he isn't actually very politically savvy so i may be wrong or his political tactics are driven by another character.
"Powerful, misunderstood, nightmarish creatures..." lolololol starting at 0:12
His task force should be called the blue man group.
Alan even with increased automation, finding enough warm bodies to keep crew levels up will be a problem. Look at Moff Gideon, His light cruiser crew had to be close to skelton crew strength.
Thrawn has the Nightsisters to raise the dead. Plus the Bad Batch shows there’s cloning machines out there Thrawn can use
Hold on, do you think we're just gonna let that pants line at the end slip by?
Hey we could see Night Preatorian Guards
Gallius Rax always makes me imagine a giant chicken in an imperial uniform because his name is so close to _gallus rex,_ "chicken king" in Latin.
Dear God, I thought I was the only one.
@@Melody_Raventress We are that one dude in Animaniacs who realizes Chicken Boo is, in fact, a giant chicken.
If amongst his hidden Imperial remnant fleet the writers decide to bring in the Doomgiver or other star destroyers in that same class imma lose it. If anyone can use that type of vessel effectively it’s Thrawn
I don't know what more unbelievable. The Imperials could fumble their fleet so hard as to loose almost all of it in two years, or some one who has ever watch start wars thinking it makes no sense the imperials would fumble that hard.
I really hope they make the Empire actually a threat. No more the laughing stock, we need a enemy who is cunning and dangerous
Im gonna say it now with thrawns strategy techniques he is basically Blue space Napoleon
My theory is that thrawn is going to fight the new republic and create the first order before eventually either dieing getting captured or leaving after realizing that old scrotum face (palpatine) is still alive and running the show.
so, if the empire outnumbered at the battle of Endor why was the destruction of the deathstar enough for the rebels to win the battle?
Alan Alan Alan, love the video, just a side note, Tigers were really tough tanks, hey they were designed to withstand a frontal hit from their own main gun but there were only 1,347 Tiger I tanks produced in WW2, while the Russians made 84,000 t34's and the US made 48,000 Sherman's, then there were the British and the rest of the Allies. From a combat standpoint the Tiger is strategically insignificant, even if they had had full logistical support they would have been outnumbered 200 to 1 and those were mere machines not Jedi's.
Stuff like this is why i think Disney cannon is stupid. The whole idea of Jakku is totally dumb. Legends may have a lot of wacky stuff in it, but they at least figured out how to realistically sun set the Empire.
That breakdown in the supply lines could've explained Thrawn's losses on Peridea much better than what we got. His whole ship looks ramshackle; like it's running on fumes. How much of the Chimaera's hardware still works properly? What of his stormtroopers' weapons? There are no factories and forges to make new parts with on Peridea nor are there fresh supplies of weapons' parts and ammunition. Maybe if they had shown a stormtrooper firing an E-Web cannon that then misfires and shuts down from malfunction (or whatever) to show their equipment sucks now after a decade without servicing, the audience could be left to assume, "Oh, Thrawn WOULD HAVE won had his weapons and equipment been in tip-top shape," instead of the jedi making a mockery of his forces.
I still want to know what happened to his officers. Were they just executed or were they cannibalized (why not both...waste not, want not I suppose)
I hope Thrawns new Flagship would be the Chimera Assertor Class Star Dreadnought. Now that's a ship that fits for tge ultimate tactician.
An Assertor would be kinda cool, but if they kinda stick to Thrawn's strategies, a smaller more mobile flagship like a Bellator would be more fitting.
I disagree- any dreadnought represents too many resources in a single location, the same resources spread across dozens of cruisers and star destroyers can assert tactical control over a much larger area of space... I'd be loath to see Thrawn commanding anything larger than a battlecruiser
On a somewhat unrelated note, on the Rebel's strategy on defeating the Empire is pretty much what Ukraine has been doing fighting against Russia's military, yes of course (on paper) Russia *had* 10,000 plus tanks but Ukraine never needed to destroy every single one of those tanks, Ukraine instead attacked supply depots, communication centers, generals, and other more vulnerable systems which supported the frontline units and thus weakening them if not just indirectly destroying said units.
Actually taking out an ISD isn’t that expensive in war material. 24 modified light freighters with 24 Y-Wings all armed with proton torpedoes can take out an ISD. A cost of $12.5M credits could take out a ISD and it’s compliment worth $240M credits
Hell, one doomed A-wing pilot with nothing to lose took out Vader's SSD once its shields had been reduced.
And don't even get me started about the Holdo Maneuver... Suddenly any idiot with a hyperdrive has a superweapon.
@@garavin Hell the Nova Flare tactic used by Rogue Squadron only required firing a bunch of proton torpedoes at a fighter and then have that fighter fly straight toward an ISD. 120 could overwhelm the shields and destroy the ship. What’s that $400k credits not counting the ships firing the torpedoes to do $240M worth of damage. Worth it.
I understand the value of secracy, that palpetine could not draw 1 or 2 star destroyers away from every sector fleet and just have them waiting without the rebels realising that it was a trap, but wasn't the order given for thousands of star destroyers to jump to the battle (to absolutely guarentee a win) before jumping back to their own systems after the battles conclusion?
I really want to see Scenes in future Shows in which the imperial remnants meets up with the mighty Eclipse Class Super Star Destroyer
In Legends the Star destroyers were just incorporated into the new Republic fleet, but kept on as sector and patrol fleets.
So, I know this won’t happen but hear me out. Thrawns return is what they use to over-ride the new trilogy lore and we get a significantly better sequel to the original trilogy. Long live the empire!
If only.
No one takes in to count how many ships and crew that jumped sides to the rebellion