the sequels could have been a lot more interesting if the 1st order was the underdog, using the same tactics against the new republic that the rebels used on them, but more ruthlessly.
Yeah and the New Republic would’ve had to deal with them in ways that didn’t stomp on people’s liberties as that would create a cycle of oppression and rebellion.
The whole sequel trilogy was really wrecked by terrible worldbuilding choices that they could never really dig out of. The whole insistence on a rehash of A New Hope really depended on too many people and factions being too stupid for too long. The resulting mess was just too damn much mess to cover in three movies. Kind of like that Picard show, they started off with retroactively having 'blown up too much' and just kind of disoriented the audience too much from how people mmight have expected things to go, even the main characters in odd places and relationships and circumstances that don't in many cases make tons of sense either....Plus whole shifts in tone from what you'd expect written in as background.... In Force Awakens' case they'd have done much better keeping it kind of simple, instead of going for a full reset. Maybe show don't tell about the New Republic being pretty immobilized by factionalism instead of just blindingly-dumb about sudden disarmament, maybe our heroes in more or less the situations you'd expect from the novels, say, instead of the 'why would you call it a Resistance before the First Order shows up,' Leia had arranged some worlds and outfits like the Rangers and other branches into a coalition still ready to fight off the Imperial remnants and whatever other trouble comes from the Imperial power vacuum, .....something at least that didn't require all factions to be pretty stupid to contrive that rehash. In both cases it's like to the audience, 'OK, everything went way too dark way too fast somewhere back there where we didn't see it, and really it just made my mind disoriented and inclined to reject a lot of the premises presented. You end up maybe too focused on 'Wait, where the hel are we, what happened' than the story or getting very interested in who the new characters are, Or questions like, 'OK, you somehow demobilized and scrapped an entire glalactic navy how fast? ' (Or in Picard's case, 'Our entire evacuation fleet and much of the rest of the fleet was destroyed at Mars,' ...And I'm like, 'What the Hel were they waiting around there for, a big entrance? You'd want all of them to be doing as much evacuating as they can as soon as they can all along!" ) All to kind of 'set a mood'. Star Wars execs wanted a New Hope remake and there just wasn't enough time to do everything they crammed in without a plan. Or thinking through how they got there without implausible handwaves.
But they had to waste our time with a storm troopers who immediately gets sidelined by Mary Sue. I liked fin, but they did him dirty, especially in the sequels.
gonna be honest, I didn't realize that was ice/ground until people were talking about how ridiculous it was online. I thought Exagaul was an ocean planet (Kinda like Kamino, but with worse music), and the Star Destroyers were rising up out of the sea. I blame this confusion on JJ Abrams' lack of proficiency in the art of the establishing shot
What really got me, was, as I understand it, the Death Star man cannon required a huge amount of those crystals Force-Users need to make their lightsabers. And the crystals are supposed to be rare. The Empire was raiding old Jedi Temples for enough crystals to build the Death Star's cannon. Then along comes the last movie and there are hundreds of star destroyers with a cannon is the same as the Death Star's cannon. Where did they get so much crystal. And considering that only 30/40 years passed from the destruction of the first Death Star until that last movie, much of which time the Empire was shattered, seems pretty strange the Empire was able to miniturize the tech and power systems needed for the cannon.
@@JoeyDCote I mean he literally said in the video that exegol had a huge amount of kyber crystals. Also they probably started the whole death star destroyer project long after the Death Star started construction.
It would take a crew of multiple billions to run those ships. IMAGINE THE LOGISTICS!!! just to feed those crews you'd have to strip EVERY resource form thousands of near by Star system! Disney Sequels just.. drive me crazy.
Wookies who were already adults during the Clone Wars must have howled in disbelief at the naivety of the New Republic. The entire species would all have PTSD.
As would basically everyone. The human race lives up to 100 years in average in Star Wars and most species have either similar lifespans if not longer not to mention they basically did only a few years after Endor.
The people in charge of the sequels had the mindset of 8-year olds "if it's bigger it's better and a Jedi with no training at all but who just knows everything is better than Luke who had some training".
Huh? Like trained for YEARS in between his first and second movie traveling the galaxy to force sensitive places and doing missions for the Rebels, whereas Rey's movies happened within days to weeks of each other during which she had a gtg and total of about 10 minutes of training with Luke...
The Galactic Empire falls and then The First Order just starts up as large as and powerful as The Galactic Empire with the entire galaxy NOT having a dang defense force to defend itself for some reason therefore making the entire fall of The Galactic Empire... completely... meaningless... Neeeeuuuggghhh...
It didn't just "start up as large and powerful as the Galactic Empire". Thirty years passed. That's a lot of time to build. And it is conceivable that the Republic, with no obvious enemy, would let their defenses wither rather than paying to keep them up while dealing with making a republic out of a fallen empire and providing aid to countless worlds stripped of resources by the Empire. There is historical precedent. Remember, at the end of WWI, Germany was defeated, bankrupt, and had their military equipment taken from them. Twenty-one years later, they had the strongest economy and military in Europe, while England and France had let their militaries wither and fell behind in technology. Twenty-one years after WWI, the once-defeated Germany rolled over Europe, just as the once-defeated Empire rolled over the galaxy.
@@ToEuropathe issue with that analogy is that Germany from WW1 was nothing like what they turned into in WW2. Germany at that point was just another country, another faction, that was dragged into a larger conflict. The empire was a dominant, oppressive, and ruthless force, that was in power for a couple decades, and the Republic not being vigilant at the first sign of remnants/resurgence of that force is insane considering what the galaxy suffered under that rule.
@@ToEuropa The First Order had no economy to speak of, and very little civilian population to... you know.. build an economy? it just doesn't work as an analogy.
@@ToEuropa The difference is that Germany maintained access to it's population, industrial base and economy in between world wars. They could use access to those resources to build up a new military. The First Order controls a tiny sliver of the galaxy and somehow uses that sliver to create an army of the same size as the Empire, which controlled the entire galaxy. The analogy would make more sense if the German leadership got exiled to some small island after WW1, like Sicily, and controlling just Sicily they built an army that could steamroll the rest of Europe within 30 years without anyone else in Europe noticing.
I remember reading the initially released details on the Supremacy and thinking: "So basically the First Order have spent the past 20-30 years playing Homeworld"
@danielm.595 If I wanted to do that it would have been large rockets. So it would be plausable and not dumb. They jumped into an area of space with radiation or something they couldnt use target lock.
How to fix this HUGE problem. 1. First order finds another Star Forge in unknown region, 2. most of the ships are crewed by old B-1 or just old droids or even automating most of the huge ships.
I would've been happy had Starkiller Base been a hollowed-out planet the First Order was hiding (and building) their fleet in instead of it just being Death Star 3.0. At least that would explain how they were able to mass such a fleet despite holding little to no territory at the sequel trilogy's outset But I do like the droids idea of yours as it would show a desperate need for manpower on the First Order's part (as well as how they could have such a large fleet)
@@Vistico93 Starkiller Base is confirmed to be ilum, the planet Jedi younglings would go to find their kyber crystal. We see in Fallen Order that the Empire was already mining the planet for kyber 5 years after the rise of the Empire. The First Order eventually found it and transformed the ravaged planet into a weapon. The mining the Empire had did prior made it not only easier to access kyber for the First Order's weapons, it made it easier to turn Ilum into Starkiller.
@@SystemZ3RO Don’t think the writers know that Starkiller base being Ilum makes it’s supposed secrecy even worse as Ilum was one of the Jedi’s famous planets for getting kyber crystals so Luke would’ve have known about it. And you’re telling me that Luke didn’t tell the New Republic about The First Order’s star system destroying planet? Bullshit
@@N120Xeno It was planned to be Ilum from the start. Luke never knew where it was because only a select few knew of its location within the Jedi Order since it was in the Unknown Region since the Jedi Archives were destroyed. Work on Ilum halted after the fall of the Empire, and it took the first order a decades to eventually find it, and even then it wasn't made to be a super weapon until the First Order arrived.
JJ Abrams is a "size queen", made Star Trek ships at SW scale, and in the sequels, upscaled the bad guy ships and pkanet killer as apparently established designs were not big enough.
Earth Alliance (the gundam ones) after their fleet and moon base wrecked in first war and earth city mostly devastated by Break the world incident: hold my BLUE AND PURE WORLD!! Taste my REQUIEM CANNON!!!
@@thatdoppioguy1825 That was Char's Neo Zeon that got Anaheim Electronics backing in "Char's Counterattack" movie. I'm referring to the Neo Zeon under Haman Karn when they rebuilt their strength and numbers after exiling themselves to the Asteroid Belt and Mars with the Axis space station in "Mobile Suit Zeta Gundam" and "Mobile Suit Gundam ZZ".
Honestly, if they were to say something like the Starforge was recreated or something I could understand the First Order having a HUGE navy and plenty of equipment, maybe aggressive cloning from many veterans to have a large variety of templates and boom huge military. Instead Disney is like, "look they bad cause they kidnap people and are just Empire 2.0 but worse"
A point to add is, throughout KotOR everyone was like "where did the Sith get their seemingly limitless resources". It wasn't accepted as normal that what was, at the outset, only a renegade faction of the millitary could assemble those forces out of nowhere.
If the first order were to be based solely on ships that were salvaged and thoroughly refurbished/rebuilt from some sith era stellar forge, it would have probably made more sense and would have made for some actually interesting stories. But we got plot holes the movie.
@@forwarduntodawn1000 Here is the problem... they famously bragged that TLJ script was completed 1st..... so JJ KK RJ all knew what each person was doing. KK approved it all.
Theyve been trying to go for the scope of 40K for a while now with these fleets. It just doesnt work when you dont have quadrillions of humans and millions of systems at your disposal.
Exactly. Scale worked perfectly for the other major factions of the galaxy. The Republic and empire each controlled most of the galaxy. They built their might off of existing infrastructure. The separatists were wealthy corporations specialized in droid production and dominated many backwater worlds rich in resources. The rebels were perfectly small in scale, scavenging whatever equipment they could and recruiting anyone they could. As for the Sith empires of old, their factor of scale is time, waiting hundreds or thousands of years to build up their might and strike down their enemies. Plus, the republic wasn’t usually ready for war. As for mandalorian crusaders, they may have been small, but virtually everyone in their society was a soldier and a potential badass. They LIVED for war. The resistance was too damn small to carry the weight of the intended narrative conflict and the first order was too damn small to fit the narrative scope, lacking neither the resources the empire had nor the time the Sith had. The conflict was too damn small in scale while trying to be too big at the same time (first order can’t dominate the galaxy within weeks).
It would’ve made more sense if the First Order’s flagship/headquarter had a Death Star tech onboard instead of chasing the Resistance Fleet until they ran out of fuel
The emperor could have had a fully automated shipyard run by reprogrammed B1 battle droids okay all those fucking droids no they could have scooped them all up and reprogram them to be workers keep them all to the fucking core and you know had them start building giant shipyards and I could have made new droids you know for that and it could have been his automated as possible they could have put those tactical droids reprogram them to you know design shipyards and ships and the automation is possible okay they could use droids and computers and you know just to automate almost as much as possible
They were trying to make Star Wars without dipping their hand into the Lucas cookie jar. They HATE relying on stuff that was made under him, doesn't matter if he was overseeing it or not. There's been so many times it would make sense for them to use something from the OG SW but Disney said F that and tired making something entirely new for that bit, almost always crashed and burned. It's all about ego, they wanna be able to make SW profitable without relying on stuff he made/was made under him because that's pretty much them admitting he knew better and that Disney didn't having to rely on OG SW to be successful. Personally that's what I think they have made so many different aliens that never existed in SW. A lot of their designs either don't fit at all with the SW's look or are just plain bad. I mean in the Mando they had an alien species that was quite literally a scaled up ant. OG SW has countless aliens, some of which haven't even had a chance to been shown on screen yet, so they really had no need to go that hard into making totally new designs. That example aside, if they'd let go of their dang ego, and the political stuff, they'd be able to make SW profitable again. I believe it's KK's fault, not wanting to admit GL was better at this than she was.
Ar least its interesting to watch how creatively bankrupt studio notes from the financiers manifest as creatively bankrupt leadership among the First Order and derilict leadership by the New Republic.
None of it made sense. The first order wasn't a remnant or a coalition if Imperials. They apparently just magically had the capabilities to rival the empire itself with regards to building and running a military. The first moments of "A new, new Hope" crawl told us that JJ Abrams gave absolutely no fucks about the lore and verisimilitude of the star wars universe. Cheers!
and think about this too, they were kidnapping many children, how th did the republic ignore that? - Tho that cause the movies and specially the tv shows made sure that new republic leia fought her whole life for is beyond bad, like somehow worse -
@@Emanon... Kathleen Kennedy was in charge and had other more pressing objectives like having a Mary sue character. In defense of JJ, he was being ignored along with George Lucas and by the time they actually let him cook he was stuck on damage control.
@@eddapultstab2078 Star Wars fans don't baselessly attack Kathleen Kennedy challenge (impossible). If JJ was actually being ignored then Ep.7 would have been a completely different film. Disney's plan to hand off each film to different directors meant that, had Disney had their way, JJ's "box of mysteries" bullshit would have been shut down from day 1. That it wasn't shows that JJ had significant creative control, and he *chose* to make the whole thing a disastrously vague, hopelessly derivative fart-huffing mess that nobody could sensibly follow up on.
Starkiller Base could maybe have kinda worked if it hadn't been built by the First Order OR the Empire, but instead was an unbelievably ancient relic of uncertain origins (like centerpoint station in old legends) that had been discovered in the later days of the Empire. Same with Supremacy, it was an Imperial super weapon that was mostly finished by the time of ROTJ, and was taken into the unknown regions and completed by what would become the first order.
You don't even need that. All you needed to do was say the Empire/FO still controlled the Outer Rim which the EU established.... then you have infinite amounts of resources for them to build stuff.... but the fkn problem is.... TFA established that no one believed Leia's idea that the FO was a threat despite the FO building a doomsday planet right next to the Republic /Fleet in the Hosnie system........ So everyone is stupid.
Seriously where is the shipyard that even built the Supremacy in the first place? That yard had to be bigger than the ship itself and be well hidden and remote for nobody to spot that from nearly a light year away.
Just to let you know... 10080 ships over 3 decades, is NOT 30 or so a year, it is 300, or so, ships a year. You missed out by a factor 10 here.... As in about one PER DAY!!!
To put this int real life context and up the absurdity it took about 1,5 years to repair the USS West Virginia after Pearl Harbour now we are of course talking galactic scale with star wars but we are also talking about 1 mile long space ships build in hiding and from scratch and not a 600ft ship being patched up because of 6 torpedo and 2 bomb hits the whole thing is absolutely absurd and thats coming from who, as a warhammer fan has a strong suspension of disbelief
I could believe it if they built the same amount of ships from different systems in bulk over a period of years, but I bet they wouldn't think about that
@@buddermonger2000 The ships that were being manufactured at that rate where the smaller warships and transports/freighters. America also did it with a well-established industrial base and uninterrupted supply lines.
The world building in the Sequels was just so bad. Making Leia the new leader of the New Republic and taking command of the surviving Republic Navy and Starfighter Corps would have improved it a bit, rather than one massive blow against one star system making the New Republic just end in a bang and a whimper.
they want the classic rebel vs empire stick but this time the rebels had there knees stolen and the empire was given the megaload cheat code inorder to get the stage set then it caught fire and they tried using water
I was told it was because the Rebellion basically turned into articles of confederation US. But like… you would think the revanchism of having the First Order bomb a system would immediately centralize the government right?
@@sir_castikMon Mothma is the leading figure who, without, the rebel alliance probably would never take shape, let alone the new republic. I don't think she's naive enough to literally scrap the entire navy for zero reason.
@@anantachonnambat6701 In summary before my rant below (my bad 😅) Mothma is equivalent to the classmate who barely contributes to the project but because their name is on the thing they take full credit. That and equivalent to a mascot who just because their image is seen they believe they’re just as vital and carry the entire team. js in both legends and ‘canon’ Mothma was always a handicap with the progression of the New Republic. I don’t want to bring the theatrical interpretation into the debate, but literally as seen in Andor Mon was too egotistical with her personal ideology that she kept nearly jeopardizing the whole rebellion. That example imo is too narrow, not trying to discredit you but in case you haven’t, but that is literally Mon from legends/ George’s canon from before ANH to post ROTJ. Her funds aside she was useless, even in the now Marvel comics.
There is a seeming paradox though of the First Order's philosophy and capability, mostly coming from the sheer size of the resistance fleet at Exogol in Episode 9. If the philosophy of the First Order is basically "the Empire but saying the quiet part out loud" and they had both the logistical and navy capacity to destroy the heart of the New Republic and take over the core majority of the entire galexy in less then a day (no i'm not exagerating). Then why would they allow even a hint of resistance to ever bubble up. If they're taking their only shot to win, they should be glassing planets by the hundreds. Any major population centers, resource rich worlds, industrial capable, galatic hubs of trade and communication should have been turned into wastelands. By episode 9, logically the galexy should be a hellscape bleeding the force with incredibly deep and prolifice wounds to also keep potential jedi from connecting to the force. Therefore, there should not be millions of combat ready fighters that can coordinate against the Final Order. So either the First Order is still incompetent, their fleet size couldn't have been that large, or, the speed of conquest wasn't near instantaneous: all of these cannot be true at the same time.
Simple , New republic w and rebel forces were sleeping untill Lando Called them 😂🎉 ,like how tf a escaped imperial force can turn into a Major Galactic conquest force without the said production facilities , resources , technology and research , like out of thin air , even the rebellion fought by guerrilla warfare and how am I supposed to believe that a defeated and barely surviving group of imperials went to the most uninhabited and non livable part of star wars galaxy and somehow turned into a Galaxy conquering force , all they did was destroy few planets and suddenly the galaxy , the new republic is under thier control , even Jar Jar Binks can write a better story
There is an intensely disruptive paradox at the heart of this: If the fleet had an actual economy behind it we should have seen propaganda and the Republic should have seen a threat; If they had no economy we should have seen them brute forcing planets into submission through force and the Republic should have seen their threat. If the first order was just leveling entire civilizations with no survivors they should have run out of personnel and had no chance when it came to actually conquering anything. All 3 are characterized as strategy they used but are in fact competing strategies that would provide any minion the whiplash neccesary to risk insurrection.
Never mind the Rebellion which became the New Republic became so by having thousands of Spies ...Agents & Assets within the I.B.I., within the Imperial Military & Civil Admin, by having millions of sympathisers supporters within all the Imperial worlds. By having the wholesale support of major Powers/various Species within the former Empire. Even with an Imperial Remnant Holdout that never fell to the Republic there'd still be Resistance Forces & Republic Sympathisers.
@@KevinWarburton-tv2iy The Sequels is practically and logically impossible. How can a dumbfock New Republic that was shown in those movies survive 30 years? If it was so dumb and ignorant, it should've been in many many pieces of systems And the first order only has shown dozen or so Resurgent battlecruisers that not even once engaged in a capital ship battle , and those Xystons , simply stupid double sized ISDs , and fungi infected palpatine clone returning was the least impossible thing
To me in the force awakens it felt like the First Order was set up with a quality over quantity approach to it's military with the Starkiller base allowing them to hold the galaxy hostage, secure their reign. Then we had the Last Jedi that went with the usual bigger badder enemy with a massive fleet conquering everything is sight despite the loss of the base, then the same one up man ship, with the Rise of Skywalker pulling a fleet of star destroyers with death star tech and the Emperor out of thin air and the massive resistance fleet that waited all this time to resist the First order.
I feel like the suquel writing is so bad that they just redo the entire original trilogy plot. Even from the first 15 minutes of the force awakens, you realize that it's just a new hope opening sequence.
Personally, much of the sequel trilogy could be fixed with like 1 or 2 lines. First Order resources? World Devastators. An even smaller faction in the Sith Eternal? Clone wars' droids. Instead, we got a Godzilla 98
The biggest problem I have with the first order is that we just don’t see much of their society. Like sure you see their military and how they go about their lives but you don’t really get to see their civilians their shipyards because apparently the first order does govern worlds in the unknown regions. I just feel there should be so much more to this faction. Like extra material showing how they rose and took over kingdoms and how they forcefully integrated them into their domain. We saw a bit of it in the Phasma comics but not much else. And that’s a shame because I really REALLY *REALLY* like the order, they’re the only thing I care about in the new era and read the most about. But Disney kinda pulled a GW and gave us a cool faction and then not expand upon them. What’s that? An imperial remnant faction that improved upon their imperial predecessors that use star destroyers and walkers designs to counter rebel tactics? A faction that also suffers from the culture of its predecessor and doubles down on them? **A FACTION THAT HAS A 6ft 7 ROILED UP SILVER MOMMY STORMTROOPER IN THEIR HIGH COMMAND WHO I WANT TO CRADLE ME?!** It’s all there you can expand upon it! Is parnassos a completely primitive wasteland? Or does the order recruit it’s best veteran from the world and tried to bring some form of stability to it? What about their ship yards? How did they come about? How many worlds had to be devastated to bring them to fruition? How were they able to secretly get Kuat’s help? Ship millions of tons of material to their corner of the galaxy? What about stuff on stormtroopers that were recruited instead of kidnapped? Agent Tierny wasn’t born under the order and I’m certain there’s a lot more like her. I just wish there was more and there can be, no doubt. This was just me mindlessly rambling on the FO and glazing Phasmommy… because she’s the best… no you’re down bad…
I too love the concept of the First Order, that it's a more powerful, "remastered" version of the Empire, but they just fumbled so hard with it. The last movie killed any sense in it, and they never really explained how it even came to be the size that is in TFA. Maybe Filoni will eventually do something with the Mandoverse, or a similar project. I will die saying that the sequels have redeemable qualities in them, they just need to write really good stories that sort of atone for the movies
Here's the scenario that I would have gone with: After the Empire's downfall, there is still pockets of Imperial military technology everywhere. There are many small factions of legacy Imperial loyalists wreaking havoc across the galaxy. The New Republic has a lot of trouble dealing with these factions because of a variety of factors. The New Republic is principled and unwilling to oppress and crackdown on loyalist systems. The issue is compounded by the fact they haven't had time to establish a competent galactic navy, and the fact that these enemies are thinly strewed across the entire galaxy. A new Enemy (Sith Lord or whatever) manipulates/working with these enemy factions. Their plan is to make it appear as though a new faction, The First Order, is really the beacon of protection the galaxy is looking for. The First Order is able to undermine the New Republic and gain the support of various sectors of the galaxy and threatens the legitimacy of The New Republic.
Wonderful! Doing exactly what the separatists did! They were able to grow quickly by gaining the support of roughly half the galaxy, especially massive corporations with lots of wealth and resources specialized in manufacturing war droids. First order doesn’t give that impression.
One thing I hate about the sequels is they all took place back to back while originals were years in between even the prequels years in between but sequels there’s no room for in between stories
The First Order Navy didn't matter anyway when the people of the entire galaxy show up in their spaceships at Lando Calrissian's beck and call and easily defeat them.
Majority of the shit after Return of the Jedi makes absolutely no sense when you actually think about it, especially the first orders rise. Think what really condemned the Sequel Trilogy to be shit was JJ just saying fuck world building and blowing up the New Republic when it had like 5 seconds of screen time. That pretty much set the tone for that eras world building which was a complete lack of care. Even the newer stuff with the mandoverse is completely fucking up the world building given its introduction of absolutely plot breaking technology and just nonsensical ways factions like The New Republic operated. It all just screams not only rushed but of complete apathy (worse than death)
dont get me wrong mando season 1 was mint nice stuff season 2 was not bad a little bit eh season 3 felt like they had lost a good chunk of what made season 1 so good and season 2 still keep part of that good factor andor brillant its because you had 3 hollywood cucks who didnt understand starwars and what had been set up by lucas complete lack of any story no one tried to link em to the last one i dont see how they could have even hoped to string them together with idiots like jj in charge
Even though Starkiller Base is ridiculous, got to give it some props of being the largest embodiment of the Tarkin Doctrine taken to the extreme and that it served its purpose to cause immediate fear despite it's destruction.
Some of those are imperial ships that went missing during and after the war ended but still. It doesn’t make sense unless they intergrated other species into their industry
@@Mr-Rinn what they don't explain, though, is why the Final Order didn't finish a single Star Destroyer until the whole fleet was ready. If they'd had a few dozen years before, it would have been a galactic calamity (imagine a Crimson Fleet lightning strike havoc campaign, but with superlasers). But no, they had to construct 30,000 at the same time.
@@sethb3090 I think they wanted to wait until it was an unstoppable size, a smaller portion defeated early by the New Republic would raise alarm bells.
One of the biggest problems of the first order is where the hell are they getting 100 metric F tons of equipment, personel, and the food!?!? The only way the new republic could miss such massive amounts of ship and weapons orders alone is if they were a rump state and on the verge of disintegration anyway. Even if the republic is rife with imperial sympathizers that would only delay the discovery by a few years at most. If the was the senate was so much in first orders pocket, activating star killer base would be irrelevant, or atleast blowing up the capital would actually set them back as they would of just made a motion to make the first order the "defenders of the republic", which would allow them to quickly, efficiently and peacefully replace the republic with thier own fairly quickly. Basically, the reason why the first order has so many problems is because the sequels were poorly written in the first place and they tried to userp the originals and prequel content and utterly failed.
Problem is, where'd they get the industrial capacity and infrastructure to build and maintain ships let alone make the monstrous ships? The imperial remnants weren't industrialists or infrastructure specialists that could easily reconstitute the capacities left behind.
The First Order and Final Order make no sense as a rule. The Unknown Regions are nowhere near as populous and resource rich to build the forces both show.
I bet there were actually many either unpopulated or very lightly populated planets that they could completely strip mine for resources, so only manpower is an issue and it is likely they found a small civilization and enslaved it to build everything.
@@cactus472 Ah yes thousands nd millions of years of old republic never thought of this and just sat in core systems , even if there were unlimited stores of resources , first order or final order would produce some random asse reason , Disney sequels focked up
their navy's size may make no sense, but their Resurgence class Star Destroyers sure are cool. "It is science. I do not have to explain anything. - 40k Techpriest
Frankly the first order was just overall kinda hard to beleive...atleast with the scale and scope of their tech and recources... Like I could beleive they maybe had some special advanced stuff that builds off the old...but the idea of a bunch of remnants using old surplus gear, unified under a ideal and strong leader legitimately would have been a better threat. Like imagine a sequel trilogy where we had a imperial faction that was similar to the nomadic steppe mongols or huns, people not believing they are coming until they are at the gate, led by a leader that would actually be great at his job of conquest. Like honestly the sequel trilogy has the biggest missed opportunities
@skepticalsmurf not sure if your joking, but just the idea of a roving massive imperial remnant on the edge of the outer rimm that is underestimated and while not has a overall tech advantage...makes up with numbers, ideological fantcisim, and generally adapted tactics and gear alongside maybe some dark side stuff would be neat. Tbh the sequel trilogy in general should have been more similar to the EU with a outside threat like the yuzang vong causing the darkside and lights idea to temporarily work together to survive...only to once it is done return to the old sith vs. Jedi conflicts.
The logical result of the Battle of Endor would be a kind of "Game of Thrones" in space. Shifting aliances and backstabbing between imperial factions and a New Alliance that survives mostly because everyone is to busy with infighting. Lots of cloak and dagger, tons of POV characters. Accidentally set an ancient superweapon in motion if you feel the need...
Yeah, Mon Mothma really dropped the ball getting rid of so much of their military force so soon, especially with the enemy not even being defeated yet.
That’s one of my biggest pet peeves with Disney’s New Republic. And New Jedi Order. Both Legends iterations (mostly) learned from the mistakes of their predecessors. The Disney version either never thought about why both failed, or saw why and said “nope, those weren’t mistakes, they were the greatest facets” and doubled down. The Old Republic was hamstrung by corruption, political infighting, and too much bureaucracy. Disney’s New Republic is worse than useless because it built itself around those features while saying “demilitarization was the best part of the Old Republic. We need to do it right now in this unstable galaxy”.
Hoarding an entire fleet's worth of resources at Exegol would only have made sense if Palpatine knew he was going to die at Endor and need ships for his clone to command, and he definitely didn't. He very clearly thought he'd won when he set that trap. If the rebels hadn't gotten incredibly lucky in a dozen different ways he would have won easily. The entire confrontation in RotJ was really well written, the sequel trilogy was hot garbage by comparison. Mon Mothma had personally experienced what underestimating the imperials had lead to, demilitarizing the entire galaxy made no sense. That's exactly what made it vulnerable to Palpatine's plan in the first place.
I haven't watched too many of your videos, but this one - wow, *all* of my favorite kinds of nerdieness. You earned a subscriber in the first 4 minutes of this video!
English person here, you really shouldn't give credit to us for teaching new generations about our previous atrocities, throughout primary and secondary school, not once was I taught about any of the bad things our country has done, just Henry the 8th (only about his wives), WW2, and the Battle of Hastings, and I took History as a field of study. It still makes me mad to this day
Sounds like you didn't get much history, period. Don't forget that English history also has a lot of very good things in it. For one easy example, the British Empire made slavery unfashionable, in a world where for thousands of years it was the morally acceptable norm.
Meanwhile over in the USA we learned about slavery and the Civil War over and over again but barely covered the World Wars, never touched on Korea or Vietnam, etc.
@@brianschonfeld1733 But in order to do that you’ll need not just the man power, but equipment and refineries to process those raw materials which I highly doubt the first order had access to at the start
Darth Sidious definitely earned his title by the subsequent insidiousness of how effectively his evil plans insinuatated themselves throughout the galaxy’s economy...
@@gintarasvaidziulis2153 Roman kingdom controled at best half of current Lazio administrative region. It was roman republic that has conquered most of the region that will be part of empire. Like all modern France, Spain, Italy, Greece coast of modern Turkey, coast of north Africa form modern Tunis to Egypt, and Egypt was made puppet state by Cesar.
Awhile back I actually came up with my own lore reason for ideas I had for my own TFA (not a good writer just ideas guy). It was that the weapons and ships we see the First Order build that are more advanced than the Empire were Imperial designs meant to be gradually implemented over time but then the Battle of Endor killed Palpatine and the Empire collapsed. The First Order in the unknown regions built on these designs but this was only able to equip a fraction of what the Imperial Navy had in numbers. Ideally imo the First Order would have just been the Imperial Remnant which was allowed to exist in the Outer Rim but a charismatic Snoke found his way on top and the New Republic out of fear of another conflict allowed the remnant to build up its strength and technology to what we see First Order designs have. Just my idea I haven’t talked sequels in quite some time.
I think this video does a great service. It's important for critiques to actually be accurate, to go after real issues. There were a LOT of issues with the sequels but they had to do with narrative structure, goals of the franchise, quality of writing, and a lack of a cohesive vision. Whether much of the lore makes sense or is explicable after the fact is mainly a distraction I think, and merely muddled what genuine critiques exist.
I think the first Order navy still makes no sense. All empires you cited predates the industrial revolution. After the industrial revolution, no matter how motivated is your population, how militaristic is your society, you cannot conquer an empire without a strong economy. And North Korea is a bad example. Its economy was propped up by China and Russia (alternatively, or at the same time). A better point of comparison for the first order would be Russia itself : a highly Militaristic, former powerful empire with a lot of outdated material, but unable to conquer its small democratic neighbor. The first order makes no sense and it's navy doesn't either: how can it be possible to support such a navy without a strong economy. Building ships is not sufficient, you have to supply them, manned their crews, maintain them. Without a strong civilian (and even with it) it is impossible. Also, the disparition of corruption within the first order is highly unlikely. The more militaristic a society is, the more corrupt it tends to be. Basically, the first order should be an impotent, corrupt and badly supplied navy overpaying for new republican components (because they have no manufacturer of their own). They should nonetheless overestimate their capacity (as fascist countries tends to do), and destroy their own forces in inefficient and poorly planned attacks.
That "small democratic neighbor" who is mostly propped up with US aid money and is so democratic that it's president suspended elections over a year back. By your definitions Ukraine is the North Korea of the conflict.
Why is the first orders navy so large? Because the writer didn't bother with logic and world building and instead just copied what he knew the audience knows and scales it up by a couple, because why nor, right?
I appreciate you attempting to break this down with in-universe explanations, but I think the Sequels are just so fundamentally dysfunctional as movies that I just am not interested in it at all. The Templin Institute did an awesome video series of why the canon New Republic and First Order don't work and then rewrote them and did such a fantastic job. Would love to gear your thoughts on them Alan!
Would be interesting to see how any of the Warlords from legends Star Wars would have dealt with the First Order. Even the weakest seems more competant than the First Order...
The Imperial Remnant in the original Expanded Universe made a lot more sense. And sure, they had the same boring Death Star III (Starkiller Base) but theirs made in-universe sense, as it was just a firing chamber created with what little funding they had rather than an entire artificial planet, thus it was known as The Darksaber.
The Sequels were so POS 🗑 🚮 that the creators really thought that making everything "bigger is better" 🤡. The creativity within the Sequels is beyond abysmal.
@@jm329 Nope, definitely not. At least when talking about the sequels as a whole. Such wasted potential for all three together to be excellent only to be thrown away as part of an agenda as wanting to make their own weird fanfiction come to life over actually expanding on what they started along with what came before.
@@doomsdaySephiroth Nah I’d say TLJ is the least shit out of the sequels because it at least tried to have a theme despite its theme being so horribly told. TFA and TROS are just hollow shells
@N120Xeno No, TLJ was still terrible. TFA was a good start, but it wasn't great by any means. Plus, it also had somewhat of a theme of its own, one that was handled better than TLJ's. As for TROS, with how terrible the ending TLJ was, it was obvious how bad that was going to be, and ended up being. I didn't even watch TROS and knew it was trash.
The metals, money and manpower invested in the first Death Star alone, once destroyed, should have collapsed the entire economy of multiple systems. That the Empire could dig out most of a planet and mechanise it, while creating an even larger fleet, after the Emperor was killed, is a joke.
Alright my fellow sequel nerds and Disney shills time to add Generation tech to the list of youtubers you hate for speaking truth, these sizes make no sense. No really don't harass GT over fictional story telling, he's cool people.
Lmao wth you talking about, GT is awesome, he covers all of Star Wars with rational thinking and even in this video he explains stuff about the First Order instead of being hateful. This guy remained a positive light during the whole Acolyte Drama and got called a Shill for talking about it normally
A democratic power that underestimated a fallen empire and neglected its military strength while its enemies build theirs back up... How unrealisctic. This would never happen in the real world.
At this scale it is, completely stupid. And honestly a great mirror to what has happened to Europe in the real world. Weak and powerless out of 'fear' of having a repeat lol.
"that's what ender wiggin would do" I haven't thought about enders game or enders shadow in Ages. Such a good book, as soon as I finish this video I'm gonna go read those again 😂
I love your videos and this is the first one I've seen that you are on a Star Wars Planet. I love it You should totally cosplay while giving lore videos, would be fun
Thanks man! I really enjoyed this, it's a very logical and concise explanation of how the 1st order went from a cult following to an existential threat. Something that was basically supposed to keep the new republic busy while palpatine continued to move forward with his thing. It did far better than anyone could've expected, destroyed the new republics military entirely. Even though the first order suffered a catastrophic failure in its new weapon. When the day was over it had destroyed all threats to itself. Now it's free to do as it pleased.
Legends handled the empire post endor way better, instead of being defeated in one year it took fifteen years. The new threats after the empire was finally defeated were more than just a rebrand of the empire.
the sequels could have been a lot more interesting if the 1st order was the underdog, using the same tactics against the new republic that the rebels used on them, but more ruthlessly.
Yeah and the New Republic would’ve had to deal with them in ways that didn’t stomp on people’s liberties as that would create a cycle of oppression and rebellion.
The whole sequel trilogy was really wrecked by terrible worldbuilding choices that they could never really dig out of. The whole insistence on a rehash of A New Hope really depended on too many people and factions being too stupid for too long. The resulting mess was just too damn much mess to cover in three movies.
Kind of like that Picard show, they started off with retroactively having 'blown up too much' and just kind of disoriented the audience too much from how people mmight have expected things to go, even the main characters in odd places and relationships and circumstances that don't in many cases make tons of sense either....Plus whole shifts in tone from what you'd expect written in as background....
In Force Awakens' case they'd have done much better keeping it kind of simple, instead of going for a full reset. Maybe show don't tell about the New Republic being pretty immobilized by factionalism instead of just blindingly-dumb about sudden disarmament, maybe our heroes in more or less the situations you'd expect from the novels, say, instead of the 'why would you call it a Resistance before the First Order shows up,' Leia had arranged some worlds and outfits like the Rangers and other branches into a coalition still ready to fight off the Imperial remnants and whatever other trouble comes from the Imperial power vacuum, .....something at least that didn't require all factions to be pretty stupid to contrive that rehash.
In both cases it's like to the audience, 'OK, everything went way too dark way too fast somewhere back there where we didn't see it, and really it just made my mind disoriented and inclined to reject a lot of the premises presented. You end up maybe too focused on 'Wait, where the hel are we, what happened' than the story or getting very interested in who the new characters are, Or questions like, 'OK, you somehow demobilized and scrapped an entire glalactic navy how fast? ' (Or in Picard's case, 'Our entire evacuation fleet and much of the rest of the fleet was destroyed at Mars,' ...And I'm like, 'What the Hel were they waiting around there for, a big entrance? You'd want all of them to be doing as much evacuating as they can as soon as they can all along!" )
All to kind of 'set a mood'. Star Wars execs wanted a New Hope remake and there just wasn't enough time to do everything they crammed in without a plan. Or thinking through how they got there without implausible handwaves.
I'm now genuinely upset that the sequels didn't go with your scenario of the insurgent 1st order/underdogs
And rei being Palpatines granddaughter could turn to the light side and actually have a story arch
But they had to waste our time with a storm troopers who immediately gets sidelined by Mary Sue. I liked fin, but they did him dirty, especially in the sequels.
The scene where all the star destroyer were just chilling under ice fully crewed was just beyond rediculous to me.
Not the First Order. That was the "Final Order" fleet that Palpatine and the "Sith Eternal" had developed and squirreled away
gonna be honest, I didn't realize that was ice/ground until people were talking about how ridiculous it was online. I thought Exagaul was an ocean planet (Kinda like Kamino, but with worse music), and the Star Destroyers were rising up out of the sea. I blame this confusion on JJ Abrams' lack of proficiency in the art of the establishing shot
What really got me, was, as I understand it, the Death Star man cannon required a huge amount of those crystals Force-Users need to make their lightsabers. And the crystals are supposed to be rare. The Empire was raiding old Jedi Temples for enough crystals to build the Death Star's cannon. Then along comes the last movie and there are hundreds of star destroyers with a cannon is the same as the Death Star's cannon. Where did they get so much crystal. And considering that only 30/40 years passed from the destruction of the first Death Star until that last movie, much of which time the Empire was shattered, seems pretty strange the Empire was able to miniturize the tech and power systems needed for the cannon.
@@JoeyDCote I mean he literally said in the video that exegol had a huge amount of kyber crystals. Also they probably started the whole death star destroyer project long after the Death Star started construction.
It would take a crew of multiple billions to run those ships. IMAGINE THE LOGISTICS!!! just to feed those crews you'd have to strip EVERY resource form thousands of near by Star system! Disney Sequels just.. drive me crazy.
The sequels made no sense.
This👆
My first thought and you beat me to it.
I concur,the 🐭 sequels were examples of rushed uneven lazy unimaginative storytelling 🤔
It’s not difficult to understand 😂
Such a boring comment
Wookies who were already adults during the Clone Wars must have howled in disbelief at the naivety of the New Republic.
The entire species would all have PTSD.
Yes
POV The entire Wookies ah S**t here we go again
This is assuming that Wookies think the same as Humans, let alone have the same emotional range.
@@CPLRedmond I think they are even more emotional than humans just by looking Chewbacca
As would basically everyone. The human race lives up to 100 years in average in Star Wars and most species have either similar lifespans if not longer not to mention they basically did only a few years after Endor.
The people in charge of the sequels had the mindset of 8-year olds "if it's bigger it's better and a Jedi with no training at all but who just knows everything is better than Luke who had some training".
100%. Bigger Death Star. Bigger Star Destroyers. Bigger Fleets. Just children trying to re-make better movies.
Rey and Luke had the exact same amount of training.
Huh?
Like trained for YEARS in between his first and second movie traveling the galaxy to force sensitive places and doing missions for the Rebels, whereas Rey's movies happened within days to weeks of each other during which she had a gtg and total of about 10 minutes of training with Luke...
@@GarrettBridgesno no they did not
@@GarrettBridges They had to retcon her to be able drain knowledge and abilities with contact. Lucasfilm acknowledged her lack of training to power.
The Galactic Empire falls and then The First Order just starts up as large as and powerful as The Galactic Empire with the entire galaxy NOT having a dang defense force to defend itself for some reason therefore making the entire fall of The Galactic Empire... completely... meaningless...
Neeeeuuuggghhh...
First order : i stole the fleet of new republic , that's why I have more ships than them 😂🎉
It didn't just "start up as large and powerful as the Galactic Empire". Thirty years passed. That's a lot of time to build. And it is conceivable that the Republic, with no obvious enemy, would let their defenses wither rather than paying to keep them up while dealing with making a republic out of a fallen empire and providing aid to countless worlds stripped of resources by the Empire.
There is historical precedent. Remember, at the end of WWI, Germany was defeated, bankrupt, and had their military equipment taken from them. Twenty-one years later, they had the strongest economy and military in Europe, while England and France had let their militaries wither and fell behind in technology. Twenty-one years after WWI, the once-defeated Germany rolled over Europe, just as the once-defeated Empire rolled over the galaxy.
@@ToEuropathe issue with that analogy is that Germany from WW1 was nothing like what they turned into in WW2.
Germany at that point was just another country, another faction, that was dragged into a larger conflict.
The empire was a dominant, oppressive, and ruthless force, that was in power for a couple decades, and the Republic not being vigilant at the first sign of remnants/resurgence of that force is insane considering what the galaxy suffered under that rule.
@@ToEuropa The First Order had no economy to speak of, and very little civilian population to... you know.. build an economy? it just doesn't work as an analogy.
@@ToEuropa The difference is that Germany maintained access to it's population, industrial base and economy in between world wars. They could use access to those resources to build up a new military.
The First Order controls a tiny sliver of the galaxy and somehow uses that sliver to create an army of the same size as the Empire, which controlled the entire galaxy.
The analogy would make more sense if the German leadership got exiled to some small island after WW1, like Sicily, and controlling just Sicily they built an army that could steamroll the rest of Europe within 30 years without anyone else in Europe noticing.
I remember reading the initially released details on the Supremacy and thinking: "So basically the First Order have spent the past 20-30 years playing Homeworld"
Yeah and that idea fucks hard, they should have expanded on that.
The _Supremacy_ even looks kinda like _Homeworld 3_ 's mothership
Nope... they were figuring out the technology to make arcing laser shots to bombard enemies.
@@wrayday7149Not only that, but arcing laser shots in the fucking SPACE!
@danielm.595 If I wanted to do that it would have been large rockets. So it would be plausable and not dumb. They jumped into an area of space with radiation or something they couldnt use target lock.
How to fix this HUGE problem. 1. First order finds another Star Forge in unknown region, 2. most of the ships are crewed by old B-1 or just old droids or even automating most of the huge ships.
I would've been happy had Starkiller Base been a hollowed-out planet the First Order was hiding (and building) their fleet in instead of it just being Death Star 3.0. At least that would explain how they were able to mass such a fleet despite holding little to no territory at the sequel trilogy's outset
But I do like the droids idea of yours as it would show a desperate need for manpower on the First Order's part (as well as how they could have such a large fleet)
@@Vistico93starkiller base is unfortunately the planet ilum so its not hollow
@@Vistico93 Starkiller Base is confirmed to be ilum, the planet Jedi younglings would go to find their kyber crystal. We see in Fallen Order that the Empire was already mining the planet for kyber 5 years after the rise of the Empire. The First Order eventually found it and transformed the ravaged planet into a weapon. The mining the Empire had did prior made it not only easier to access kyber for the First Order's weapons, it made it easier to turn Ilum into Starkiller.
@@SystemZ3RO Don’t think the writers know that Starkiller base being Ilum makes it’s supposed secrecy even worse as Ilum was one of the Jedi’s famous planets for getting kyber crystals so Luke would’ve have known about it. And you’re telling me that Luke didn’t tell the New Republic about The First Order’s star system destroying planet? Bullshit
@@N120Xeno It was planned to be Ilum from the start. Luke never knew where it was because only a select few knew of its location within the Jedi Order since it was in the Unknown Region since the Jedi Archives were destroyed.
Work on Ilum halted after the fall of the Empire, and it took the first order a decades to eventually find it, and even then it wasn't made to be a super weapon until the First Order arrived.
JJ Abrams is a "size queen", made Star Trek ships at SW scale, and in the sequels, upscaled the bad guy ships and pkanet killer as apparently established designs were not big enough.
At least he had the decency to make the oversized Star Trek ships take place in another timeline though
@@Staticsceptre true.
@@Staticsceptreyeah so he's safe walking down the street
JJ a tiny bean of a man: "Bigger is better."
@@Staticsceptre that was part of the contract...cbs didn't want him potentially edging in on profits from the original series merchandise reportedly
First Order Navy: *exists*
Neo Zeon: *heavy breathing noises*
Earth Alliance (the gundam ones) after their fleet and moon base wrecked in first war and earth city mostly devastated by Break the world incident: hold my BLUE AND PURE WORLD!! Taste my REQUIEM CANNON!!!
I almost hate how accurate this comparison is. XD
@@COMPLAINS_NOT_CHANGE_ANYTHINGAnd then they got Requiem stolen from them and even used against them which got their fleet destroyed, again.
Neo Zeon has a big excuse and a realistic one for why they seem to keep getting suits and resources.
Anaheim Electronics.
@@thatdoppioguy1825 That was Char's Neo Zeon that got Anaheim Electronics backing in "Char's Counterattack" movie.
I'm referring to the Neo Zeon under Haman Karn when they rebuilt their strength and numbers after exiling themselves to the Asteroid Belt and Mars with the Axis space station in "Mobile Suit Zeta Gundam" and "Mobile Suit Gundam ZZ".
Honestly, if they were to say something like the Starforge was recreated or something I could understand the First Order having a HUGE navy and plenty of equipment, maybe aggressive cloning from many veterans to have a large variety of templates and boom huge military.
Instead Disney is like, "look they bad cause they kidnap people and are just Empire 2.0 but worse"
And they give black stormtroopers names like FN.
@@BungieStudios Should have named him N Pass.....
A point to add is, throughout KotOR everyone was like "where did the Sith get their seemingly limitless resources". It wasn't accepted as normal that what was, at the outset, only a renegade faction of the millitary could assemble those forces out of nowhere.
0:01 Alan back at Lothal with a new fancy apartment room.
Him at Lothal is him slumming it.
If the first order were to be based solely on ships that were salvaged and thoroughly refurbished/rebuilt from some sith era stellar forge, it would have probably made more sense and would have made for some actually interesting stories. But we got plot holes the movie.
dont forget plot armour and un logical chose making for 3 different directors
That requires careful world-building and these are movies about wizards with laser swords made for children.
@@BungieStudios im going to assume you are talking about sequels only and not the starwars universe in general
@@forwarduntodawn1000 Here is the problem... they famously bragged that TLJ script was completed 1st..... so JJ KK RJ all knew what each person was doing. KK approved it all.
@@wrayday7149 4 useless idiots who care more about polical stances then making a decent film
Theyve been trying to go for the scope of 40K for a while now with these fleets. It just doesnt work when you dont have quadrillions of humans and millions of systems at your disposal.
Exactly. Scale worked perfectly for the other major factions of the galaxy. The Republic and empire each controlled most of the galaxy. They built their might off of existing infrastructure. The separatists were wealthy corporations specialized in droid production and dominated many backwater worlds rich in resources. The rebels were perfectly small in scale, scavenging whatever equipment they could and recruiting anyone they could. As for the Sith empires of old, their factor of scale is time, waiting hundreds or thousands of years to build up their might and strike down their enemies. Plus, the republic wasn’t usually ready for war. As for mandalorian crusaders, they may have been small, but virtually everyone in their society was a soldier and a potential badass. They LIVED for war. The resistance was too damn small to carry the weight of the intended narrative conflict and the first order was too damn small to fit the narrative scope, lacking neither the resources the empire had nor the time the Sith had. The conflict was too damn small in scale while trying to be too big at the same time (first order can’t dominate the galaxy within weeks).
It would’ve made more sense if the First Order’s flagship/headquarter had a Death Star tech onboard instead of chasing the Resistance Fleet until they ran out of fuel
But like the Death Star, they both keep their massive fleets of Tie Fighters docked, with only one elite squadron launched.
The emperor could have had a fully automated shipyard run by reprogrammed B1 battle droids okay all those fucking droids no they could have scooped them all up and reprogram them to be workers keep them all to the fucking core and you know had them start building giant shipyards and I could have made new droids you know for that and it could have been his automated as possible they could have put those tactical droids reprogram them to you know design shipyards and ships and the automation is possible okay they could use droids and computers and you know just to automate almost as much as possible
@@thehillbillygamer2183 In the Bad Batch most of the battle droids were being scrapped
@@casbot71 this was needed for structural integrity. Those fighters are actually load bearing
Yup. Basically what the Eclipse class is.
"Creatively bankrupt" is a phrase I'd apply to the sequel trilogy as a whole.
If they had the courage to make jarjar the Sith, it could have been mindblowing
Some things in the sequel is ok not good but ok
They were trying to make Star Wars without dipping their hand into the Lucas cookie jar. They HATE relying on stuff that was made under him, doesn't matter if he was overseeing it or not. There's been so many times it would make sense for them to use something from the OG SW but Disney said F that and tired making something entirely new for that bit, almost always crashed and burned. It's all about ego, they wanna be able to make SW profitable without relying on stuff he made/was made under him because that's pretty much them admitting he knew better and that Disney didn't having to rely on OG SW to be successful.
Personally that's what I think they have made so many different aliens that never existed in SW. A lot of their designs either don't fit at all with the SW's look or are just plain bad. I mean in the Mando they had an alien species that was quite literally a scaled up ant. OG SW has countless aliens, some of which haven't even had a chance to been shown on screen yet, so they really had no need to go that hard into making totally new designs. That example aside, if they'd let go of their dang ego, and the political stuff, they'd be able to make SW profitable again. I believe it's KK's fault, not wanting to admit GL was better at this than she was.
@zelithfang2365 with all the aliens I agree with you that's bs
Ar least its interesting to watch how creatively bankrupt studio notes from the financiers manifest as creatively bankrupt leadership among the First Order and derilict leadership by the New Republic.
None of it made sense.
The first order wasn't a remnant or a coalition if Imperials. They apparently just magically had the capabilities to rival the empire itself with regards to building and running a military.
The first moments of "A new, new Hope" crawl told us that JJ Abrams gave absolutely no fucks about the lore and verisimilitude of the star wars universe.
Cheers!
and think about this too, they were kidnapping many children, how th did the republic ignore that? - Tho that cause the movies and specially the tv shows made sure that new republic leia fought her whole life for is beyond bad, like somehow worse -
Thats incorrect, if you watch the video you will be provided with the real explanation of what they are
@@Emanon... Kathleen Kennedy was in charge and had other more pressing objectives like having a Mary sue character.
In defense of JJ, he was being ignored along with George Lucas and by the time they actually let him cook he was stuck on damage control.
@@eddapultstab2078 Star Wars fans don't baselessly attack Kathleen Kennedy challenge (impossible).
If JJ was actually being ignored then Ep.7 would have been a completely different film.
Disney's plan to hand off each film to different directors meant that, had Disney had their way, JJ's "box of mysteries" bullshit would have been shut down from day 1. That it wasn't shows that JJ had significant creative control, and he *chose* to make the whole thing a disastrously vague, hopelessly derivative fart-huffing mess that nobody could sensibly follow up on.
@@dib_human6151 nice try disney cuck
Starkiller Base could maybe have kinda worked if it hadn't been built by the First Order OR the Empire, but instead was an unbelievably ancient relic of uncertain origins (like centerpoint station in old legends) that had been discovered in the later days of the Empire.
Same with Supremacy, it was an Imperial super weapon that was mostly finished by the time of ROTJ, and was taken into the unknown regions and completed by what would become the first order.
You don't even need that. All you needed to do was say the Empire/FO still controlled the Outer Rim which the EU established.... then you have infinite amounts of resources for them to build stuff.... but the fkn problem is.... TFA established that no one believed Leia's idea that the FO was a threat despite the FO building a doomsday planet right next to the Republic /Fleet in the Hosnie system........ So everyone is stupid.
Seriously where is the shipyard that even built the Supremacy in the first place? That yard had to be bigger than the ship itself and be well hidden and remote for nobody to spot that from nearly a light year away.
Just to let you know... 10080 ships over 3 decades, is NOT 30 or so a year, it is 300, or so, ships a year. You missed out by a factor 10 here.... As in about one PER DAY!!!
To put this int real life context and up the absurdity it took about 1,5 years to repair the USS West Virginia after Pearl Harbour now we are of course talking galactic scale with star wars but we are also talking about 1 mile long space ships build in hiding and from scratch and not a 600ft ship being patched up because of 6 torpedo and 2 bomb hits the whole thing is absolutely absurd and thats coming from who, as a warhammer fan has a strong suspension of disbelief
I could believe it if they built the same amount of ships from different systems in bulk over a period of years, but I bet they wouldn't think about that
Tbh America was doing that at the height of WW2.
@@buddermonger2000 The ships that were being manufactured at that rate where the smaller warships and transports/freighters. America also did it with a well-established industrial base and uninterrupted supply lines.
@@klade5031 Yes and these are multiple planets
The way you casually and quickly name dropped Andrew Wiggin... love it
I thought the same thing lol such a deep cut
The world building in the Sequels was just so bad. Making Leia the new leader of the New Republic and taking command of the surviving Republic Navy and Starfighter Corps would have improved it a bit, rather than one massive blow against one star system making the New Republic just end in a bang and a whimper.
It will always be a mystery on why the New Republic went from being the dominant force in the galaxy to basically a non-entity during the sequels.
they want the classic rebel vs empire stick but this time the rebels had there knees stolen and the empire was given the megaload cheat code inorder to get the stage set then it caught fire and they tried using water
Personal opinion, Mon Mothma ruins the new republic both legends and Disney Star Wars
I was told it was because the Rebellion basically turned into articles of confederation US.
But like… you would think the revanchism of having the First Order bomb a system would immediately centralize the government right?
@@sir_castikMon Mothma is the leading figure who, without, the rebel alliance probably would never take shape, let alone the new republic. I don't think she's naive enough to literally scrap the entire navy for zero reason.
@@anantachonnambat6701 In summary before my rant below (my bad 😅) Mothma is equivalent to the classmate who barely contributes to the project but because their name is on the thing they take full credit. That and equivalent to a mascot who just because their image is seen they believe they’re just as vital and carry the entire team.
js in both legends and ‘canon’ Mothma was always a handicap with the progression of the New Republic. I don’t want to bring the theatrical interpretation into the debate, but literally as seen in Andor Mon was too egotistical with her personal ideology that she kept nearly jeopardizing the whole rebellion. That example imo is too narrow, not trying to discredit you but in case you haven’t, but that is literally Mon from legends/ George’s canon from before ANH to post ROTJ. Her funds aside she was useless, even in the now Marvel comics.
There is a seeming paradox though of the First Order's philosophy and capability, mostly coming from the sheer size of the resistance fleet at Exogol in Episode 9.
If the philosophy of the First Order is basically "the Empire but saying the quiet part out loud" and they had both the logistical and navy capacity to destroy the heart of the New Republic and take over the core majority of the entire galexy in less then a day (no i'm not exagerating).
Then why would they allow even a hint of resistance to ever bubble up. If they're taking their only shot to win, they should be glassing planets by the hundreds. Any major population centers, resource rich worlds, industrial capable, galatic hubs of trade and communication should have been turned into wastelands.
By episode 9, logically the galexy should be a hellscape bleeding the force with incredibly deep and prolifice wounds to also keep potential jedi from connecting to the force.
Therefore, there should not be millions of combat ready fighters that can coordinate against the Final Order.
So either the First Order is still incompetent, their fleet size couldn't have been that large, or, the speed of conquest wasn't near instantaneous: all of these cannot be true at the same time.
Simple , New republic w and rebel forces were sleeping untill Lando Called them 😂🎉 ,like how tf a escaped imperial force can turn into a Major Galactic conquest force without the said production facilities , resources , technology and research , like out of thin air , even the rebellion fought by guerrilla warfare and how am I supposed to believe that a defeated and barely surviving group of imperials went to the most uninhabited and non livable part of star wars galaxy and somehow turned into a Galaxy conquering force , all they did was destroy few planets and suddenly the galaxy , the new republic is under thier control , even Jar Jar Binks can write a better story
There is an intensely disruptive paradox at the heart of this:
If the fleet had an actual economy behind it we should have seen propaganda and the Republic should have seen a threat;
If they had no economy we should have seen them brute forcing planets into submission through force and the Republic should have seen their threat.
If the first order was just leveling entire civilizations with no survivors they should have run out of personnel and had no chance when it came to actually conquering anything.
All 3 are characterized as strategy they used but are in fact competing strategies that would provide any minion the whiplash neccesary to risk insurrection.
Never mind the Rebellion which became the New Republic became so by having thousands of Spies ...Agents & Assets within the I.B.I., within the Imperial Military & Civil Admin, by having millions of sympathisers supporters within all the Imperial worlds. By having the wholesale support of major Powers/various Species within the former Empire.
Even with an Imperial Remnant Holdout that never fell to the Republic there'd still be Resistance Forces & Republic Sympathisers.
@@KevinWarburton-tv2iy The Sequels is practically and logically impossible.
How can a dumbfock New Republic that was shown in those movies survive 30 years? If it was so dumb and ignorant, it should've been in many many pieces of systems
And the first order only has shown dozen or so Resurgent battlecruisers that not even once engaged in a capital ship battle , and those Xystons , simply stupid double sized ISDs , and fungi infected palpatine clone returning was the least impossible thing
Lothal looks nice this time of year
To me in the force awakens it felt like the First Order was set up with a quality over quantity approach to it's military with the Starkiller base allowing them to hold the galaxy hostage, secure their reign.
Then we had the Last Jedi that went with the usual bigger badder enemy with a massive fleet conquering everything is sight despite the loss of the base, then the same one up man ship, with the Rise of Skywalker pulling a fleet of star destroyers with death star tech and the Emperor out of thin air and the massive resistance fleet that waited all this time to resist the First order.
I feel like the suquel writing is so bad that they just redo the entire original trilogy plot. Even from the first 15 minutes of the force awakens, you realize that it's just a new hope opening sequence.
Personally, much of the sequel trilogy could be fixed with like 1 or 2 lines. First Order resources? World Devastators. An even smaller faction in the Sith Eternal? Clone wars' droids.
Instead, we got a Godzilla 98
The biggest problem I have with the first order is that we just don’t see much of their society. Like sure you see their military and how they go about their lives but you don’t really get to see their civilians their shipyards because apparently the first order does govern worlds in the unknown regions. I just feel there should be so much more to this faction. Like extra material showing how they rose and took over kingdoms and how they forcefully integrated them into their domain. We saw a bit of it in the Phasma comics but not much else. And that’s a shame because I really REALLY *REALLY* like the order, they’re the only thing I care about in the new era and read the most about. But Disney kinda pulled a GW and gave us a cool faction and then not expand upon them.
What’s that? An imperial remnant faction that improved upon their imperial predecessors that use star destroyers and walkers designs to counter rebel tactics? A faction that also suffers from the culture of its predecessor and doubles down on them? **A FACTION THAT HAS A 6ft 7 ROILED UP SILVER MOMMY STORMTROOPER IN THEIR HIGH COMMAND WHO I WANT TO CRADLE ME?!**
It’s all there you can expand upon it! Is parnassos a completely primitive wasteland? Or does the order recruit it’s best veteran from the world and tried to bring some form of stability to it?
What about their ship yards? How did they come about? How many worlds had to be devastated to bring them to fruition? How were they able to secretly get Kuat’s help? Ship millions of tons of material to their corner of the galaxy? What about stuff on stormtroopers that were recruited instead of kidnapped? Agent Tierny wasn’t born under the order and I’m certain there’s a lot more like her.
I just wish there was more and there can be, no doubt.
This was just me mindlessly rambling on the FO and glazing Phasmommy… because she’s the best… no you’re down bad…
You need to go take a cold shower and read the Bible and pray the Rosary, Bo.
@@MeanBeanComedy yes, post haste
I too love the concept of the First Order, that it's a more powerful, "remastered" version of the Empire, but they just fumbled so hard with it. The last movie killed any sense in it, and they never really explained how it even came to be the size that is in TFA. Maybe Filoni will eventually do something with the Mandoverse, or a similar project.
I will die saying that the sequels have redeemable qualities in them, they just need to write really good stories that sort of atone for the movies
I also want to learn more about FO, they are one of my favorite factions in all of Star Wars
Brother, you make me look like I'm up good with this amount of glazing.
Here's the scenario that I would have gone with:
After the Empire's downfall, there is still pockets of Imperial military technology everywhere. There are many small factions of legacy Imperial loyalists wreaking havoc across the galaxy. The New Republic has a lot of trouble dealing with these factions because of a variety of factors.
The New Republic is principled and unwilling to oppress and crackdown on loyalist systems.
The issue is compounded by the fact they haven't had time to establish a competent galactic navy, and the fact that these enemies are thinly strewed across the entire galaxy.
A new Enemy (Sith Lord or whatever) manipulates/working with these enemy factions. Their plan is to make it appear as though a new faction, The First Order, is really the beacon of protection the galaxy is looking for. The First Order is able to undermine the New Republic and gain the support of various sectors of the galaxy and threatens the legitimacy of The New Republic.
Wonderful! Doing exactly what the separatists did! They were able to grow quickly by gaining the support of roughly half the galaxy, especially massive corporations with lots of wealth and resources specialized in manufacturing war droids. First order doesn’t give that impression.
One thing I hate about the sequels is they all took place back to back while originals were years in between even the prequels years in between but sequels there’s no room for in between stories
The First Order Navy didn't matter anyway when the people of the entire galaxy show up in their spaceships at Lando Calrissian's beck and call and easily defeat them.
*final order
I especially loved the animal charge in space scene,who wrote this crap,a five year old? 😬
I wonder if Lando had "The Deal"?
This is why Fanfiction authors need to stick to fanfiction. I do appreciate the smut, though.
@@ghr501able Settle down, Bo! 🫵🏻
The First Order would be more realistic and compelling if it was an insurgency movement rather than the Empire 2.0.
Majority of the shit after Return of the Jedi makes absolutely no sense when you actually think about it, especially the first orders rise. Think what really condemned the Sequel Trilogy to be shit was JJ just saying fuck world building and blowing up the New Republic when it had like 5 seconds of screen time. That pretty much set the tone for that eras world building which was a complete lack of care. Even the newer stuff with the mandoverse is completely fucking up the world building given its introduction of absolutely plot breaking technology and just nonsensical ways factions like The New Republic operated. It all just screams not only rushed but of complete apathy (worse than death)
dont get me wrong mando season 1 was mint nice stuff season 2 was not bad a little bit eh season 3 felt like they had lost a good chunk of what made season 1 so good and season 2 still keep part of that good factor andor brillant
its because you had 3 hollywood cucks who didnt understand starwars and what had been set up by lucas complete lack of any story no one tried to link em to the last one i dont see how they could have even hoped to string them together with idiots like jj in charge
Even though Starkiller Base is ridiculous, got to give it some props of being the largest embodiment of the Tarkin Doctrine taken to the extreme and that it served its purpose to cause immediate fear despite it's destruction.
Alan, just condem the sequels for once
Admit it, Disney Sequels just sucks.
It took me 2:30 to realize the city behind you was fake.
This comment rotated through as a featured comment at exactly 2:30
which is when I noticed that it was indeed fake
I did NOT expect this level of quality when I clicked on a video about the first order and the size of its Navy. Instant subscribe
Some of those are imperial ships that went missing during and after the war ended but still. It doesn’t make sense unless they intergrated other species into their industry
wasnt their ship a diffrent ship. And their firepower just like the empire itself
*Laughs in Starkiller Base.....
**Hysterical chortling* in Final Order Exagol Fleet.
Well that one has at least been explained by the construction beginning before the Empire fell.
@@Mr-Rinn what they don't explain, though, is why the Final Order didn't finish a single Star Destroyer until the whole fleet was ready. If they'd had a few dozen years before, it would have been a galactic calamity (imagine a Crimson Fleet lightning strike havoc campaign, but with superlasers). But no, they had to construct 30,000 at the same time.
@@sethb3090 I think they wanted to wait until it was an unstoppable size, a smaller portion defeated early by the New Republic would raise alarm bells.
@@Mr-Rinn the final order made no goddamn sense. At least starkiller base was just another death star
Disney sequels suck , that's it 😂🎉
One of the biggest problems of the first order is where the hell are they getting 100 metric F tons of equipment, personel, and the food!?!? The only way the new republic could miss such massive amounts of ship and weapons orders alone is if they were a rump state and on the verge of disintegration anyway. Even if the republic is rife with imperial sympathizers that would only delay the discovery by a few years at most.
If the was the senate was so much in first orders pocket, activating star killer base would be irrelevant, or atleast blowing up the capital would actually set them back as they would of just made a motion to make the first order the "defenders of the republic", which would allow them to quickly, efficiently and peacefully replace the republic with thier own fairly quickly.
Basically, the reason why the first order has so many problems is because the sequels were poorly written in the first place and they tried to userp the originals and prequel content and utterly failed.
Problem is, where'd they get the industrial capacity and infrastructure to build and maintain ships let alone make the monstrous ships? The imperial remnants weren't industrialists or infrastructure specialists that could easily reconstitute the capacities left behind.
The First Order and Final Order make no sense as a rule. The Unknown Regions are nowhere near as populous and resource rich to build the forces both show.
We don’t know everything in the unknown region. There could be enough to supply the first order
@cactus472 yea, but not the Final Order
@@mhmm4840well maybe but we can’t prove it either way
I bet there were actually many either unpopulated or very lightly populated planets that they could completely strip mine for resources, so only manpower is an issue and it is likely they found a small civilization and enslaved it to build everything.
@@cactus472 Ah yes thousands nd millions of years of old republic never thought of this and just sat in core systems , even if there were unlimited stores of resources , first order or final order would produce some random asse reason , Disney sequels focked up
The First Order had the most powerful economic factor in its favor. PLOT ARMOR. Basically, they had to rewrite episode 4 with talentless hacks.
their navy's size may make no sense, but their Resurgence class Star Destroyers sure are cool.
"It is science. I do not have to explain anything. - 40k Techpriest
15 min video 10 mins of geo political and historical lessons 5 mins of Star Wars. Absolutely love these
Frankly the first order was just overall kinda hard to beleive...atleast with the scale and scope of their tech and recources...
Like I could beleive they maybe had some special advanced stuff that builds off the old...but the idea of a bunch of remnants using old surplus gear, unified under a ideal and strong leader legitimately would have been a better threat.
Like imagine a sequel trilogy where we had a imperial faction that was similar to the nomadic steppe mongols or huns, people not believing they are coming until they are at the gate, led by a leader that would actually be great at his job of conquest.
Like honestly the sequel trilogy has the biggest missed opportunities
I see,like the Vikings Mongols or Huns 🤔
@skepticalsmurf not sure if your joking, but just the idea of a roving massive imperial remnant on the edge of the outer rimm that is underestimated and while not has a overall tech advantage...makes up with numbers, ideological fantcisim, and generally adapted tactics and gear alongside maybe some dark side stuff would be neat.
Tbh the sequel trilogy in general should have been more similar to the EU with a outside threat like the yuzang vong causing the darkside and lights idea to temporarily work together to survive...only to once it is done return to the old sith vs. Jedi conflicts.
The logical result of the Battle of Endor would be a kind of "Game of Thrones" in space. Shifting aliances and backstabbing between imperial factions and a New Alliance that survives mostly because everyone is to busy with infighting. Lots of cloak and dagger, tons of POV characters.
Accidentally set an ancient superweapon in motion if you feel the need...
@@robertmartinu8803in other words, it should have been like the Star Wars EU.
I sooo wish that they made the first order a small cult of of hardline radicals, not empire 2.
Yeah, Mon Mothma really dropped the ball getting rid of so much of their military force so soon, especially with the enemy not even being defeated yet.
That’s one of my biggest pet peeves with Disney’s New Republic. And New Jedi Order. Both Legends iterations (mostly) learned from the mistakes of their predecessors. The Disney version either never thought about why both failed, or saw why and said “nope, those weren’t mistakes, they were the greatest facets” and doubled down. The Old Republic was hamstrung by corruption, political infighting, and too much bureaucracy. Disney’s New Republic is worse than useless because it built itself around those features while saying “demilitarization was the best part of the Old Republic. We need to do it right now in this unstable galaxy”.
Im still gonna pretend that the xystons were actually just refitted imperial 1s
No. They're brand new. Whether you like it or not, it is canon that they are their own designs from temu.
Hoarding an entire fleet's worth of resources at Exegol would only have made sense if Palpatine knew he was going to die at Endor and need ships for his clone to command, and he definitely didn't. He very clearly thought he'd won when he set that trap. If the rebels hadn't gotten incredibly lucky in a dozen different ways he would have won easily.
The entire confrontation in RotJ was really well written, the sequel trilogy was hot garbage by comparison. Mon Mothma had personally experienced what underestimating the imperials had lead to, demilitarizing the entire galaxy made no sense. That's exactly what made it vulnerable to Palpatine's plan in the first place.
Fantastic history lesson at the beginning. One of the most brief and objectively factual descriptions I've heard in a long time.
Roughly *300* Xystons a year to get to 10080 total, not 30
I haven't watched too many of your videos, but this one - wow, *all* of my favorite kinds of nerdieness. You earned a subscriber in the first 4 minutes of this video!
The first order makes no space in general.
English person here, you really shouldn't give credit to us for teaching new generations about our previous atrocities, throughout primary and secondary school, not once was I taught about any of the bad things our country has done, just Henry the 8th (only about his wives), WW2, and the Battle of Hastings, and I took History as a field of study. It still makes me mad to this day
Sounds like you didn't get much history, period. Don't forget that English history also has a lot of very good things in it. For one easy example, the British Empire made slavery unfashionable, in a world where for thousands of years it was the morally acceptable norm.
Meanwhile over in the USA we learned about slavery and the Civil War over and over again but barely covered the World Wars, never touched on Korea or Vietnam, etc.
how did some remnants of the empire got resources for that
Writers: “Uhhh cloning and uhhhh secrets only the Sith knew so shut up and eat your poo”
Dismantle a rogue planet, and you got all the resources you need.
@@brianschonfeld1733 World Devastators!!!
@@brianschonfeld1733 But in order to do that you’ll need not just the man power, but equipment and refineries to process those raw materials which I highly doubt the first order had access to at the start
*_The Force_*
The destined sequel trilogy we never got:
*Thrawn*
Darth Sidious definitely earned his title by the subsequent insidiousness of how effectively his evil plans insinuatated themselves throughout the galaxy’s economy...
Well thought out explanation and delivery. Excellent work
Long live the Republic!!!!
Phenomenal video! I really enjoy your deep dives!
4:32 Wait right here roman kingdom? It was roman republic that jumpstarted Rome form small tribe to greatest power in western part of civilized world.
Lol I saw this just as I paused about to make the same comment
It was Roman kingdom before repubic. Romans overthrown king and created republic.
@@gintarasvaidziulis2153 He said about conquest, it was Roman republic that conquered the world.
@@simon2493 Actualy roman kingdom started conquest and republic continued. Largest expansion of Rome was as empire.
@@gintarasvaidziulis2153 Roman kingdom controled at best half of current Lazio administrative region. It was roman republic that has conquered most of the region that will be part of empire. Like all modern France, Spain, Italy, Greece coast of modern Turkey, coast of north Africa form modern Tunis to Egypt, and Egypt was made puppet state by Cesar.
I LOVE THE DEEP IMPERIALISM TANGENT/ EXPLANATION. Didnt expect such wisdom in this video. Great job
Instead of giving them a Death Star the First Order should've had a Star Forge. Still creatively bankrupt but it would have made sense.
Just wanted to say, that view through the window looking out to Coruscant is a great touch. I didn’t even notice it at first, it’s great😂😂
Best Star Wars Channel
Had to rewind to see if I had heard your Ender Wiggin reference correctly. Very nice to hear.
Awhile back I actually came up with my own lore reason for ideas I had for my own TFA (not a good writer just ideas guy). It was that the weapons and ships we see the First Order build that are more advanced than the Empire were Imperial designs meant to be gradually implemented over time but then the Battle of Endor killed Palpatine and the Empire collapsed. The First Order in the unknown regions built on these designs but this was only able to equip a fraction of what the Imperial Navy had in numbers. Ideally imo the First Order would have just been the Imperial Remnant which was allowed to exist in the Outer Rim but a charismatic Snoke found his way on top and the New Republic out of fear of another conflict allowed the remnant to build up its strength and technology to what we see First Order designs have. Just my idea I haven’t talked sequels in quite some time.
I think this video does a great service. It's important for critiques to actually be accurate, to go after real issues. There were a LOT of issues with the sequels but they had to do with narrative structure, goals of the franchise, quality of writing, and a lack of a cohesive vision. Whether much of the lore makes sense or is explicable after the fact is mainly a distraction I think, and merely muddled what genuine critiques exist.
The Disney sequel area F’d everything up, plain and simple
I love how cool you are shooting this video in Coruscant..
I think the first Order navy still makes no sense. All empires you cited predates the industrial revolution. After the industrial revolution, no matter how motivated is your population, how militaristic is your society, you cannot conquer an empire without a strong economy.
And North Korea is a bad example. Its economy was propped up by China and Russia (alternatively, or at the same time). A better point of comparison for the first order would be Russia itself : a highly Militaristic, former powerful empire with a lot of outdated material, but unable to conquer its small democratic neighbor.
The first order makes no sense and it's navy doesn't either: how can it be possible to support such a navy without a strong economy. Building ships is not sufficient, you have to supply them, manned their crews, maintain them. Without a strong civilian (and even with it) it is impossible.
Also, the disparition of corruption within the first order is highly unlikely. The more militaristic a society is, the more corrupt it tends to be.
Basically, the first order should be an impotent, corrupt and badly supplied navy overpaying for new republican components (because they have no manufacturer of their own). They should nonetheless overestimate their capacity (as fascist countries tends to do), and destroy their own forces in inefficient and poorly planned attacks.
That "small democratic neighbor" who is mostly propped up with US aid money and is so democratic that it's president suspended elections over a year back. By your definitions Ukraine is the North Korea of the conflict.
Great Job Adam!
Why is the first orders navy so large?
Because the writer didn't bother with logic and world building and instead just copied what he knew the audience knows and scales it up by a couple, because why nor, right?
I appreciate you attempting to break this down with in-universe explanations, but I think the Sequels are just so fundamentally dysfunctional as movies that I just am not interested in it at all. The Templin Institute did an awesome video series of why the canon New Republic and First Order don't work and then rewrote them and did such a fantastic job. Would love to gear your thoughts on them Alan!
Would be interesting to see how any of the Warlords from legends Star Wars would have dealt with the First Order. Even the weakest seems more competant than the First Order...
The Imperial Remnant in the original Expanded Universe made a lot more sense. And sure, they had the same boring Death Star III (Starkiller Base) but theirs made in-universe sense, as it was just a firing chamber created with what little funding they had rather than an entire artificial planet, thus it was known as The Darksaber.
The Sequels were so POS 🗑 🚮 that the creators really thought that making everything "bigger is better" 🤡. The creativity within the Sequels is beyond abysmal.
7 was good, but it was the only one of the sequels that was.
@@doomsdaySephirothIt wasn’t that good when you look back on it.
@@jm329 Nope, definitely not. At least when talking about the sequels as a whole. Such wasted potential for all three together to be excellent only to be thrown away as part of an agenda as wanting to make their own weird fanfiction come to life over actually expanding on what they started along with what came before.
@@doomsdaySephiroth Nah I’d say TLJ is the least shit out of the sequels because it at least tried to have a theme despite its theme being so horribly told. TFA and TROS are just hollow shells
@N120Xeno No, TLJ was still terrible. TFA was a good start, but it wasn't great by any means. Plus, it also had somewhat of a theme of its own, one that was handled better than TLJ's. As for TROS, with how terrible the ending TLJ was, it was obvious how bad that was going to be, and ended up being. I didn't even watch TROS and knew it was trash.
Good video. Love the analogies
I always chalked the reason up to being that sci fi and fantasy fails at scale something I as a prolific writer try to avoid
The superior man is modest in his speech, but exceeds in his actions.
Wasn't the First Order supposed to be a pure stratocracy? Like, you know, an entirely military society with no civilian population?
Great video!
The metals, money and manpower invested in the first Death Star alone, once destroyed, should have collapsed the entire economy of multiple systems.
That the Empire could dig out most of a planet and mechanise it, while creating an even larger fleet, after the Emperor was killed, is a joke.
So it could've made sense. good to know. Would have actually been cool if we were told anything about the setting
Not a lot in the newer movies makes much sense.
Generation Tech making great parallels to the real world as always
no it doesn't make any sense. But we are talking about Disney Star Wars...none of the sequel trilogy is worth a damn nor makes any sense.
Always bear in mind that your own resolution to succeed is more important than any one thing.
Alright my fellow sequel nerds and Disney shills time to add Generation tech to the list of youtubers you hate for speaking truth, these sizes make no sense. No really don't harass GT over fictional story telling, he's cool people.
Lmao wth you talking about, GT is awesome, he covers all of Star Wars with rational thinking and even in this video he explains stuff about the First Order instead of being hateful. This guy remained a positive light during the whole Acolyte Drama and got called a Shill for talking about it normally
The child’s favorite Christmas gift was the large box her father’s lawnmower came in.
A democratic power that underestimated a fallen empire and neglected its military strength while its enemies build theirs back up... How unrealisctic. This would never happen in the real world.
hmmm,l see where you’re going(Third Reich)there,but a military buildup of this planetary scale seems far fetched 🤔
@@arthurbriand2175 pretty sure it did happen recently with the whole taliban takeover of Afghanistan
@@chrisellis2758 This happened several times in recent history and even current times. It was sarcasm
@@chrisellis2758 Taliban was never a fallen empire. They ruled Afghanistan, then hid in the mountains for 20 years, then came back.
At this scale it is, completely stupid.
And honestly a great mirror to what has happened to Europe in the real world. Weak and powerless out of 'fear' of having a repeat lol.
"that's what ender wiggin would do" I haven't thought about enders game or enders shadow in Ages. Such a good book, as soon as I finish this video I'm gonna go read those again 😂
Everything about this trilogy was ridiculous
I love your videos and this is the first one I've seen that you are on a Star Wars Planet. I love it
You should totally cosplay while giving lore videos, would be fun
The Disney Trilogy was a Disaster, with really Bad/No World Building.
Thanks man! I really enjoyed this, it's a very logical and concise explanation of how the 1st order went from a cult following to an existential threat. Something that was basically supposed to keep the new republic busy while palpatine continued to move forward with his thing. It did far better than anyone could've expected, destroyed the new republics military entirely. Even though the first order suffered a catastrophic failure in its new weapon. When the day was over it had destroyed all threats to itself. Now it's free to do as it pleased.
5:26 The Aztecs were not from South America.
Yeah, people often forget Mexico is part of North America and that the Aztec’s were in what’s now Northern Mexico.
Usually everything below to us is referred to as a south, while it's latin america
@@GiorgiVardi I’m used to it as well. Hello from the North!
Legends handled the empire post endor way better, instead of being defeated in one year it took fifteen years. The new threats after the empire was finally defeated were more than just a rebrand of the empire.
best site of for unbiased non-politicized SW content 🤓
It makes no sense because Disney had no plan for the sequel Trilogy