Does Squad's Latest Map Take it Too Far?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 ก.ย. 2024
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I thought long and hard about publishing this video. The map is excellent. It's well designed, well optimized, and fun as any I've ever played. But more than any other Squad map, it brings with it troubling imagery of the not so distant past that I think it's important we at least acknowledge.
Squad is a great game. Fallujah is an amazing map, but we should be mindful whenever we play any game, of the real life events that the game is based on.
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I loved this video man but why did you not drag him into the alley on the other side with it being closer? (:
@@ayisdec716 probably that was the direction from which he got shot from ...
In the end, he dragged him to safety. Nothing else matters.
@@bancodrut true buddy they know that that side is safe so makes total sense I'm sure they got shot down the road, makes more sense tho thanks, man.
If we can't talk about a controversial battle from the Iraq War, then why should we include maps of Omaha Beach, Stalingrad, or Hue City in any video game? In my own take, if we can't visualize one event from history in a virtual world, then we shouldn't be commercializing any of them. I say this was well done, and in good taste, given the amount of veterans in the Squad community.
When are u playing next? I want to be a riflemen in your squad.
People don't bat an eye at maps inspired by battles like omaha beach or hamburger hill. Fallujah should be viewed the same way.
The only difference is time passed.
@@ControlledPairsGaming still worth remembrance, no matter how recent
@@DoktorNFC Couldn't agree more. Only saying that the argument of those who disagree with us is that Fallujah and other modern fights risk coming off as insensitive if portrayed in this digital medium as those directly affected by the conflict still live in the city.
Time passed and those were more worthy reason for war. Iraq was an atrocity.
@@ControlledPairsGaming same can be said about omaha.
The fact that it is so detailed and that they took years to develop this map with care pays a giant amount of respect to remembering the devastation of the battle
Agreed
That's not how people that live there think
@@willystix2150 the game devs had nothing to do with war its like a film maker for a documentary he made showing what happened
@@willystix2150 also this was a war against terror, which im sure the people who lived there agreed with the cause but hated the fact it was happening in their home.
This is tremendously well articulated. I'm one of the many developers who worked on the map (I wrote the part of the article you read out), and all I can say is that you've perfectly captured our desire to do justice to an extremely complex and multi-faceted piece of history. I'm incredibly happy to see just how perfectly the emotions and sweat we poured into it have been recognized and embraced by the community. Keep doing what you guys do, we wouldn't be here without the support of people exactly like you!
Sorry it's taken so long to get back to this. Appreciate you taking the time to watch and that you felt I summarized the development process and motivations appropriately. I do think you guys have achieved something special, and I wish you all the best. Thanks for watching :)
Amazing work gents, I hope this map brings back the memory of those who served in that bloody house to house battle. A good friend of mine died over there before I went to bootcamp.. he was my reason for making it through the Marine Corps.. A bridge was recently named in his honor. Rest in peace Travis R. Desiato. staging.massfallenheroes.org/profile/travis-desiato/
Will U do a map detailed like faullijuah to Gronzy
Scott was a friend of our family. Real solid dude. Just a few years later I'd end up driving through a pacified Fallujah on my way to another town during combat operations in Iraq...
You guys did a job man. There's a dark joke circling this game among our group of friends who served in Iraq and Afghanistan... "PTSD simulator."
Do not *ever* soften things in fear of what we might think. Become *more* realistic.
I served in Iraq right after Fallujah. This map is everything I remember minus the smell.
Too far is what we need
Whole point of this video 🤣
Yes, especially since we have d day in PS and that one was much more brutal, I believe
Aye
Indeed
"We must go farther"
Is it ethical to create video games of horrific historical moments. YES, it's another medium of retelling history. When done properly you get insightful review videos and people start asking questions and learning, possibly for the first time in their life outside of school
Love this take ❤️
@@ControlledPairsGaming ahh thanks! And thanks for bringing this game to my attention was great to see a recent well documented event accurately translated to video game format.
Exactly!! Some of the most important things I know I learned from video games. Things that school wouldn’t ever teach me.
Your wording there "horrific historical moments" makes me think of actual war crimes. No imo its not ethical to make a game where let's say you participate as a war criminal killing off/abusing women, children and non combatants based on past historical events. Although nobody is going to stop you.
There is no point unless you wanna make some fantasy of you being in the mind of these people.
@@jeremylim2421 clip scenes do this pretty well, not saying they need to be drawn out and rated XXX but it still possible to get the message across
In 2005 I lived in Ramadi Iraq just down the road from Fallujah these games are oddly therapeutic, there is humor overlaying the insanity and people return from the dead. Personally I have had some issues going near this map I will play it in time because I will not be controlled by fear. The map is well done as it actually invokes memories of the area most attempts at this have failed, this one did not. Thank you to the devs who built the map it will give me a chance to put to rest some ghosts that linger.
This is beautiful. Appreciate you, man.
Ramadi 07. Cant wait for a ramadi map. Remembering the msr, COPs checkpoints. Give me flashbacks but not in a bad way but more for a rememberence and nostalogic feeling.
“I will not be controlled by fear.”
I haven’t seen a more beautiful statement in a very long time
Game Journalists: "This is insensitive and will give people PTSD!"
Marines who were in Falujia: "Oh sweet! Hey Sarge! Get the Crayons and beer, we playing the Falujia map on Squad and meme around!
Jokes aside: I 100% thought you was gonna talk shit and go the Game Journo route, but I'm glad at the end of the video you stated stuff like this in Squad is a tribute to the men and women who served, not an insult. I was ready for a longass AngryCops grade lecture rofl. So props to you for not going full Karen mode.
lol true
There was a Fullujah game being made in the 2010s, the familys of fallen soldiers hated the idea and soldiers there loved it. The game was canceled.
@@CocainePirate I think it was called "6 days in Fallujah."
Nah man, Marines say “Sarnt” lol
- USMC Sergeant (Retired)
As a Marine vet, this is my shit
I love when devs take things too far. You have a choice to not play if something hits too close to home for you, and artists should not be limited by what will offend journalists.
It's not too close. That's all just marketing.
Where the women marines at?
@@willt3223 STAWP!
The headmaster of my school is Maj. Jesse Grapes, he fought in the “Hell house” during the battle of Fallujah. You can find some images online of him in combat, those Marines he mentions in the beginning are his men I believe.
“Although we had no sympathy for their cause or what they were doing, we could at least respect the fact that these guys had enough cojones to, you know, stand up and fight us,” Grapes said. What a Baller
Holy shit, now I really wanna get Squad.
DO IT
When u have squad but no one to play with 😔
@@Johnnysixpac I just play solo, I usually get into a squad the communicates so it makes it more enjoyable than most games you play by yourself.
@Roniixx After playing fallujah I can say I no longer have this problem. Just hop in a squad and you're good to go
Get it man. Its a great experience
The cinematic clip was used in the official trailer congrats xd
Thanks! 🤙
This was a well thought out review of the map. I remember in the late 2000s there was going to be a AAA game based around Falujah that was canceled because no one would publish it due to the controversy of making such a battle "fun", though the project was to be a serious, near documentary form.
I think of all games to add Falujah, Squad is the most appropriate to do so. Between Squad and Post Scriptum, the two developers seem to have a lot of respect for their very grim subject matter.
For sure. Thanks for watching. Times have changed man. Glad we're able to see projects like this come to fruition.
What's this logic... people don't want Fallujah in the game but also make tons of games featuring WW2 like Wolfenstein or Call of Duty 2 which is even worse then Fallujah... bruh the World does not make ANY sense xd
@@kajmak64bit76 Not that I agree with it, but the logic is "clear". It's not really logic, but emotional thinking. One, Fallujah had happened just a few years ago- and the war in Iraq was still raging on. It's also a different situation from WW2, where few opposed the war effort, but the Iraq war was very different, many people stood against it. Not saying I agree with any of it, I think that games are an art style and expression is important for perspectives to be put fourth and understood, but some people don't see that and take offense for whatever reason.
@@hellcatdave1 i mean what are the chances some dude from Iraq will play this game? Xd no harm will be done anyway besides nobody should be offended by this historical recreation of a map
The chances are high. They've already commented on this video.
I mean, we have maps dedicated to Omaha Beach, Berlin, Bastogne and Arnhem in high detail
Does that mean we disrespect some of WW2’s bloodiest battles?
We also have maps that detail Khe Shan, and hue city. But I have never heard anyone say anything bad about that.
Medal of Honor (2010) had an entire segment dedicated to Operation Annaconda, but not a single army Ranger (to my knowledge) has expressed displeasure about it being in a video game.
To me, if your going to model battles, maps and locations after a real world event, do it to the upmost detail.
The more detail the better. Including the horrors of the battles. It will make people understand what happened there, it'll help people learn.
"Those who cannot remember the past, are condemned to repeat it" - George Santayana, writer-philosopher
Some of WW2s bloodiest battles weren't even on the Western Front, eh.
The eastern front makes D-Day, Bastogne and Arnhem like a picnic lol
Not every console player is a call of duty bumsweat, we need games like these
Big fax
Problem is tactical shooters like these typically have control schemes that are much too complex for a controller to work well enought to want to play on. Maybe the introduction of console keyboards will help but then you might as just well build a pc
Pancakepapi6 consoles with a keyboard are much cheaper and easier to access and maintain
Games like this don't work on console
@@Yeaggghurte i maintain my pc by never dusting it and occasionally accidentally pouring soda on it. Has worked well for 8 years now. The only thing i've upgraded was the graphics card
Was deployed to Camp Fallujah from Jan of 2005 -Jan of 2006. I can wholeheartedly tell you that I , along with the lifelong friends I made there, are excited and honored that someone would go through that much work and detail to make this. I legit almost cried when I saw the roadmap for the first time.
Thank you for serving
@@diehard2705 no :(
@@soheibmiloudi1883 why?
soheib miloudi ?
Fake
It is worth taking time to pause and remember the anguish and pain and suffering that these games portray. We should respect those who were directly affected in the real conflict.
Exactly. Thanks for watching, man. Glad to have you as a subscriber.
goran stojanovic Dont fucking start. Especially here. Just don’t.
@goran stojanovic The troops on the ground had no say in that, chief. Virtually none of them had any idea they would even end up in Iraq when they enlisted. Phantom Fury and Vigilant Resolve were barely a year after the invasion. Damn near everyone who would have been present save the most junior enlisted enlisted either before 9/11 or during the surge of enlistments from 2001 to 2002 following the attacks.
The game of geopolitics is not one played by privates and sergeants.
@goran stojanovic Old men start it, young men fight it. Blame the politician, not the soldier.
@@aidansouthall1 Let's not mention the ~1200 Iraqi civilian killed during both battles, sure. That's 10 times the number of coalition forces service members killed in Fallujah, just to put it into perspective.
You can still honor the latter, their commitment and sacrifice to their country without overlooking the illegal/moral aspects of such military interventions. These had long lasting consequences for the Iraqi people, even up to this day.
burying one's head in the sand only allows more sand to be poured on top.
Very true.
that's marines for you, your with your crew members so much they turn into family i bet every Marine would trade his medal for his friends/family to come back
Any real Marine, Army, Navy Corpsman, SOF operator, etc; would trade in almost everything to bring back the men and women who died in service of each other.
That special bond never goes away, it's one that transcends even the love a man feels for his own wife and kids.
there no arguing about that if you speak the truth you just can't argue
As a Marine Veteran with a couple combat tours (no Iraq, just Afghanistan), I appreciate the level of detail that goes into this game. I’d rather play this than COD.
We need too far.
We have too many people who tend to take sensitivity to another level.
If you think its "too real", then don't play it.
I couldn’t agree more
Yeah
Man this tore me up, Sergeant Wells was one of my best friends. and I've been telling the story about this famous photo and my friend laying there for years, this is the first time I've heard it told me and it's crushing also very awesome that the story is getting more light. Lonnie D Wells I love and miss you brother
The realism drills the point home just how bad the battle really was. It was like a small scale Stalingrad. Absolute mayhem and inhumanity in the streets with heavy casualties all around. And it's easy to see the numbers as just numbers but when you simulate fighting for your life for hours on end, knowing that you don't have a respawn, it gives you a minor slice of the hell the combatants faced. I think games like this, and movies like Saving Private Ryan that don't glorify and sugar coat war are important to give the non-vets perspective.
Saving Private Ryan had brutal scenes but eventually was a good ending sugar coated movie if you ask me. They always end up to redeem themselves, something vets can't always do.
as a Nasa shuttle door gunner with 3 tours of duty during the Mandalorians War I am so thankful for all the work the team at squad do and also the team on post scriptum. I am 1100 hours and counting on Squad.
Bro cronge they didn't have shuttle door gunners in the Mandalorian war they used ac260 gun space ships your a liare stolen valor
The Mandalorian Wars happened 3000 years ago. Unless you are an immortal Sith Lord, you are a liar.
This was a documentary and I loved it all
Thanks so much.
Everyone: *Playing Squad*
Me: *Still crashing Helicopters in BF2: Project Reality*
Hey it's still fun so send it!
BF2:PR was the best
Spent hundreds of hours, maybe thousands playing that game. I can still remember the first fire fight, running through the woods with a ppsh.
Never played squad nor would I have the time to get into something like that again... Good memories man
Doing a touchdown without going out of control is hard
its quite funny how project reality also has a fallujah map which even has a kickass banger of a tune while loading it and no one bats an eye
I don't think there's a lot of eye batting going on over the Squad version either, tbf.
Honestly if people find it too realistic, then they can take their snowflake ass back to the other maps and have that style of combat still.
Absolutely
Thats not what snowflake means
This is exactly the kind of shitty knee-jerk response that makes the actual thought and discussion put into this video stand out, and why we need more like it.
We need Grozny for a map
You're not a badass because you play a video game
Sorry, I don't make the facts
Hey man, I’m a former infantry Marine (0311) my battalion 3rd battalion 5th Marines (3/5) cleared Fallujah (the Jolan district). When I was there, I almost daily foot patrolled by that Blue Mosque. Surreal looking at it. Lived quite literally a few blocks from that Blue Mosque. I have never played this game and don’t play video games much though I’d love to. But the mosque was unbelievably accurate from what I’ve seen on the videos.
I am almost certain if I played this game, I would have a completely different reaction to it than other combat vets and other vets generally I’m sure. Even all these years later. I’ve been out for over a decade. But I’m all for others enjoying it.
It’s funny how civies try to decide what is and what isn’t offensive to soldiers even though soldiers mostly (to my knowledge) see it as a display of respect
So is it too early to say about Sqaud being the perfect engine for Six Days in Fallujah? I think the real story needs to be told and it's high time that it's been done.
Dude if it became and official OWI product holy shit.
I think more maps and More Games should be created in this realistic matter. It allows the public to just get a glimpse of what these men encounter on a regular basis. War is not always glamorous, sometimes it's downright boring, hurry up and wait situations followed by 10 seconds of pure Terror. But we need more games to recognize that heroism none the lease. To motivate young men to follow in these Men footsteps. When evil Rises good men must fight them back to preserve freedom and the way of American Life.
Fun fact about fallujah, because of the determination of the people there the American army couldn’t actually enter the city even after using white phosphorous in combat. They made a deal with a political leader that gave them access to this city. I lived 18 years and spent my entire childhood in Iraq. The results of white phosphorus can be seen in new born babies until this day. Anyways nice video and the map is very well made.
Appreciate your comment. Willie Pete is a mean tool no doubt. Still in use globally and of course in SY. I'm certain that the Marine Corps did not ask permission to enter Fallujah in 2004, lol. But over the long and complex history of the city and Iraq as a whole there's no doubt many times diplomatic agreements have been used rather than violence, as they always should be. Deliberately using WP to target civilians is wrong (which I'm near certain never happened in Fallujah). So is setting people on fire and hanging them from bridges (which did).
Controlled Pairs Gaming thanks for the reply. In the second battle of fellujah the American army did enter the city only after using WP and other chemical weapons and literally killing all sorts of life inside it. The hundreds of cases that my dad saw in the university of medicine in Baghdad are indescribable. I’m not talking about war crimes here but both sides were not angels. American army had a prison called Abu ghraib right next to the city of fellujah and the inhumanity can be seen even on the internet.
Oh for sure. Totally believe that shelling if Fallujah with all munitions including WP happened, only that the purpose wasn't to deliberately harm civilians, it was pre assault fires for an assault to clear the city of enemy fighters. The city was surrounded and isolated for weeks. It was common knowledge an assault was imminent and all civilians were told to leave. Not an excuse, of course.
Abu Graihb isndisgust and we'll documented. We put those Soldiers in prison for years... And later released many of the prisoners who were mistreated.
Beats getting set on fire and decapitated, tho 🤷♂️
Controlled Pairs Gaming well war is shit in all cases but video games are the best I think we can all agree on that ! Great video and keep up the good work ! :)
goran stojanovic there’s a legal invasion ? Who makes it legal ?
I'm worried that any map I play on a server is going to get shut down for this one. The difference is unprecedented in terms of the quality between Basrah and Fallujah. However, maybe one day the other maps get a facelift too. Let's hope. Great video as always
@Chris Greig You're completely right, I know a few guys that are looking forward to running it 24/7 on their community servers. It's a refreshing, vertical and intense map and I'm so excited for final release
I just hope my computer doesn’t take a shit from it.
@Chris Greig24/7 servers are already up via SquadOps (search them). it's a beautiful thing ☺️
I have experience similar Post scriptom is my favorite game because I find the ww2 era to define much of how the world changed, many times after playing PS i end up watching documentarys on ww2 of many different battles from the air, sea, and land, seeing their struggle not only to win a war, but the survival of freedom loving people. Seeing accounts of men's breavry under heavy fire or overwhelming odds, and the problem solving of commanders, but also what led up to the war, what caused it to happen in the first place? The who, what, when, why. One thing about PS has done for me that I didn't expect was that by studying so much of the past it has helped me see when poorly informed/mislead people try to incite change to something that has been proven not to work and only cause more suffering. The saying histroy tends to repeat it self, hits you differently when you have a deep understanding of the past.
Thanks Brandon. Appreciate your feedback.
world war two channel will interest you
This makes me want to get both Beyond The Wire when it comes out and Squad. Imagine the absolute terror of Fallujah, but in an open field with barbed wire, shell holes, and destruction all around. Imagine masses of men dying for no reason at all in the grand scheme of things represented in a realistic, horrifying way.
Already in the BTW Alpha dawg!
Controlled Pairs Gaming sweet! I’ll give it a try sometime.
Being a marine, and meeting my brothers and sisters who fought in Fallujah and hearing the stories has put that battle in a different light for me; it was more brutal and emotional than words can explain and I think this map and these developers are on the right track with how eerie and suspicious that city was to all foreigners who entered and fought there. I fully agree with these types of games and depictions, even knowing I could find myself in one of those battles at any given time. Like you said, it's a tribute and I think they are underappreciated, but nothing will quite meet to emotions and realism that were felt by those actually there on those streets.
It's really good to see this kind of thoughtful reflection about Squad. It's been in my mind, certainly. Being a contemporary shooter with painstakingly detailed factions, you can't help but consider the broader context. Playing as the US military in contemporary times isn't like playing US in world war 2. That's besides even talking about playing as modern Russia. The battles over Fallujah create extremely compelling narratives, but you can't pretend the 2003 Iraq War wasn't a lie, a crime, and an eternal tarnish on US history. That said, the brave young people who were actually on the ground didn't put themselves there. They did as best they could in a horrific situation others made for them.
I watched Generation Kill recently and it really brought that dynamic into focus, and that's how I think of a match in Squad. The real bad guys aren't the other side, they're the rich power brokers whose careless decisions put both armies here. Now that we're here, we have to survive, help our friends, do whatever we can to get through this. The communication and comradeship in this game puts proper emphasis on that fact: Soldiers are thrown into the grinder through no fault of their own, and they make the best of it.
I was in alpha 1/3 and we did the cordon and siege and assault of Fallujah. I remember when we are going into the city they said we would be in there for 4 days, pack for two weeks. We were in there clearing buildings for 16 hours a day every day for 5 months. My battalion lost 48 and took a total of over 40% casualties. It's crazy to think that I was somewhere where I got shot at every single day for such a long time. It still hurts to remember all my friends that didn't make it. Thank you for making such a thoughtful video.
I had my reservations about this map. I thought recreating a video game map based on a relatively recent bloody battle might be too soon. However, after witnessing the start of the video, I think the community is heading in the right direction with this map. I also finished reading the book by Medal of Honor Recipient David Bellavia called "House to House." It is a brutal personal depiction of hand to hand combat and house to house fighting from those that were there. I highly recommend the book.
Thank you for including the information in the beginning.
Yeah man
It's sad to see the cancelled video game 6 Days in Fallujah will never see the light of day like Squad has. If only the developers had a reunion and collaborated with a bigger development team to redo 6DiF
@@null643 idk man sje woke people are trying to cancel it
@@malecrium8665 Because they want it to be darker!
They want it to delve into the fucked up war crimes on both sides, American and the defenders. The developers said the game 'Wouldn't be political' and that pissed quite a few people off
Fallujah veteran here. 1/3 Bravo. Game looks awesome, amazing how accurate it is looks pretty much like I remember it. Fallujah and I guess Iraq in general has certain features in the cities, buildings, shops, the homes. I could tell it was Fallujah. Most games have generic type middle eastern city or town. Great job on the game.
The clip where you pull your mate from the streets is so cinematic with the Humvee and tank rolling in.
Glad to see this map didn't go the way of "Six Days in Fallujah". For those that don't know, Six Days in Fallujah was a video game that was being developed to better convey the first week of insertion and combat. Various members of the US forces volunteered with the developers to help create an accurate depiction of the events in the Fallujah War. However pressure from the media and other non-veteran and non-enlisted groups got the game cancelled before it could be released.
Karma. I only came across your channel the other day. I've since subscribed. Thank you for this vid and your explanation as to the realness of the map's, but more importantly, the respectful commentary you state for the men and women who served there. 100% respect!
Thanks so much!
I love the amount of genuine facts and details you included during this, it wasn't biased and saying the game should be canceled or the map removed. It was making sure we remember the importance and history behind a map. That it isn't just a video game level, that it was a real place where a real battle was fought and real people lost their lives. Props to you you man 💜
Really appreciate that, thank you!
Thank you for bringing this battle back to light...especially to those that don't remember. I was in the USMC Boot Camp summer 2004, later to only watch the 2nd Battle Of Fallujah in despair since I was not there to fight alongside
OWI has always done a great job at making squad a vessel to support veterans. I think it's important that the players also keep this in mind and that simulating warfare can be more than just a game.
That's a great point
Based on the guy spinning around in the FOB blasting Sicko Mode I'm gonna say no.
lol.
Nah the best is blasting fortunate son when moving in logis to fob spots.
I am a 0311 Marine Corp Fallujah Veteran. My first tour to Fallujah was in 2005 and then again in 2007. The map might have been based on the City dimensions, however, the macro environment is not accurate. But I am happy to see that our fight is being remembered.
You and your team, sir, are an incredibly impactful group on a generation of people who think shooter video games are just a pigment of what really happens in combat. Absolute respect to you and your team. I do not have a PC and I do wish to play squads. PS5 or Xbox. I would absolutely love to see you guys continue your craft at which you place Squad as probably one of the most profound nods to real life combat situations and we thank you for your service to the community.
“ those who fail to learn from history are condemned to repeat it “ - winston churchill
This game doesn't take it too far. On the contrary, it helps people understand and appreciate what those men went through!
I actually feel fear when moving through the streets on this map, no other games has given me this feeling
No doubt it's eerie.
Ever seen newspaper pictures from when we had a mob problem in the united states ? . People didn't consider in the past if seeing something real or facing reality was possibly a problem. The 1st world has been so safe for so long that people think they may even need protection from depictions of how ugly the real world outside is . It isn't troubling to me at all . People need to see, much more than just a video game , people need to understand the dangers of the world in order to truly face it . Any of my vet friends that game .. they play war games usually . They don't even consider games realistic portrayals of war . Not one time has one went .. hmm I think this game is too realistic. Maybe this is too much ? Not to me in conversation anyway .
At least you don't have to ask yourself did I shoot a Combatant or a Civilian in a Game.
Or as a vet told me, that Months after he shot a man I was desperatly searching his memories/dreams for a gun or weapon of any sort in this mans hand but never could remember one.
F*** I am glad that I not have to deal with such memories.
Another thing I noticed that adds to the realism is the children who are crying in their homes while the city is quiet before battle. It’s a lot of attention to detail
When playing squad one Eye smiles while one crys
i love this game
I was there as a contractor during this (although not in the second battle of fallujah, I flew in on a helicopter with a Marine O-6 who had his rifle with him a couple days before, which was a sign to me that shit was about to get real there.). Thanks for doing this video -- you did a great job.
When I first watched your video when you were dragging your squad mate I remembered those pictures. I look forward to playing this map and this game when im done building my pc. But ill never forget the men who served and died.
Appreciate that, man. Thanks for watching.
Dude I am kinda happy,TH-cam has been recommending these gem of channels with very few subs. Good job algorithm.
Agreed. Feels like us little guys have a chance, finally. Thanks for your kind words.
When a game dev studio was working on the game "7 Days in Fallujah", actual combat veterans that fought in Fallujah loved it and considered it a sign of respect. If the actual men who fought in this battle don't think a video game depicting the battle is "going too far", then I think none of us average schmucks have any right to question that game. Just my personal opinion.
This was the first video I'd seen on your channel. It's awesome to see how much it's grown since
It doesn't matter if it goes too far, it keeps these stories alive
Just a small addition the 3rd man in the photo was not a Marine, he was a Navy Hosptial Corpsman, Joel Lambott. While I was not in the Battle of Fallujia, I was a Corpsman with 1/8.
I feel it is a form of respect. It shows what they went through even if it is just in a game. I may seem like disrespect but it is more of never letting the battle that occurred in real life die and show the chaos of that battle
I’m an active duty Marine. I haven’t seen combat (peacetime) but i love this map and other maps inspired by battles fought by Marines. Its an opportunity for me to remember and honor fellow Marines who served there and lost their lives there.
tbh war should only occur in video games nowadays.
Well that won’t happen
i'm french so i have very rarely heard of this battle, if it wasn't for this game and you're video about it, i would have never heard the story of this gunnery sergeant who put his life at risk to save another man. thank you and semper fidelis
It’s history and we shouldn’t censor history this should be remembered
I’m glad you added that opening story, it was extremely heartfelt and it actually moved me to tears. War is a terrible thing, and our use of it for entertainment does cross some boundaries. I’m glad you’re asking if we’ve gone too far.
i understand why you thought about this. but when you think of post scriptum. that game has every battle. and i dont think that they should change the map. bcs if we do remove this map. we will forget the few that have given the ultimate sacrifice.
Agreed. Thanks for watching!
One thing that I find important about these kinds of maps that go into such extensive and intricate detail is giving an idea of the type of hell that those soldiers went through in those combat situations.
I'm not saying that it should be a history lesson. Its a video game. It's meant for fun at the end of the day. However, the gravity of that particular situation should not be lost. And with this map, I can see that it isn't.
My respects to those lost at Fallujah, to OWI for their attention to detail and dedication to authenticity, and to you for not pussyfooting this like a game journalist today most likely would.
Appreciate that take, man.
Respect to all members of the us military and our allies.
Big facts.
This video was very well done. Thanks for retelling the story to a broader audience who may not know how difficult a fight Fallujah was or the immense bravery of the Marines and soldiers who cleared an entire city room by room.
As time rolls on, these games are going to become more popular, larger, and more immersive.
While I question the effect that might have on the perception of war as a whole, I think representations of these historical places will pay the highest levels of tribute, giving players an interactive depiction of the horrors seen in war and the streets where real battles unfolded. As a historical device, I think its hard to find a better medium. I remember growing up studying maps, pictures, and reading accounts from the soldiers and Marines who were present at the innumerable battles in our history (my interests were originally in Vietnam, and the Battle of Fallujah was very recent memory).
I liked the other maps of Squad because of the action and the coordination, but I like the Fallujah map for a very different reason. It's probably some of the most pure setting description for a conflict to date, and hopefully mods or official releases bring the historical context that setting was surrounded by to life. I honestly hope we see more games and maps like this.
Dear Tristan,
I invite you to return to my channel as frequently as you'd like. Your well thought and aptly articulated response is a breath of fresh air.
Best,
CPG
I’ve not seen or heard of this game until this video popped up.
As long as people know what they are buying/playing in advance I don’t think they will be complaining.
If it had a recreation of an actual killing with the victim being recognisable then that would be taking it too far.
I remember watching Saving Private Ryan and being shocked at the chaos and carnage of the D Day beach landing, it helped bring home to me what they went through. I imagine it’s the same thing here with this game.
I really need to play Squad again so that I could see, experience, and feel the map. This is a great analysis thank you for posting and uploading the video!
Thanks man! I really appreciate that
I think its amazing that they made this map because i just learned about brave soldiers that gave everything to fight for what they believe and give their lives for brothers that have fallen
Im happy i bought a pc, console "exclusives" is not compared to these games we have on pc. We have uncountable exclusives here on pc
Those photos are shown in every single infantry boot camp class. I wasn't far from where that happened.
Yup. Brutal.
"does the Sim game take it to far" no. Acknowledging the past is important, and you're doing a good job at that with this video. Squad however should take it as far as they can, people need to know the realities of war
I got wounded in Fallujah in 2003 before the big battles took off in 2004. That incident killed a friend of mine too. A month later we moved to Ramadi and stayed there the rest of that tour. I got home from my first tour the day those contractors were hung from the “Brooklyn Bridge” in Fallujah. I came home, PCS’d to Korea...and deployed right back to Ramadi 6 months later with 2ID. Fallujah and Ramadi were the two worst cities in al Anbar at the time...and arguably the whole country. Both cities were linked not just by their proximity, but because they were the hearts of the Sunni Islamist control of the insurgency and the seats of power for al Queda in Iraq, Ansar al Sunna, JRTN, and the most extreme members of the Sunni foreign fighters. It was also the end point of the long jihadi/supply/terror logistics paralleling the Euphrates river and Highway 10 all the way out to Syria. It still is...I don’t have a problem with kids playing games that feature battlefields I personally fought on. In my mind, perhaps the next time they run into a veteran from Iraq/Afghanistan...they might actually listen to what we have to say because maybe now they have a vested interest in understanding the context in which their game takes place. Some kids won’t appreciate it...but that isn’t on us. Many other kids will begin their journeys into understanding history because of it (even the ugly stuff) and for me, that is a win.
We need a D-Day map with such detail as this.
Post Scriptum: Project Omaha
I think that there is definitely a line that can be crossed when it comes to realistic war games, but I don't think we've progressed far enough with our technology to reach it yet, and we'll never truly know what that line is until someone crosses it.
Well, if you didn't have PTSD you will now...
You earned my sub from this, amazing well made point, perfect visuals, very well articulated.
Really appreciate that. Thanks for watching!
Honestly I think shooter games are too far removed from reality. I'm all for realism in in these games, since they are based on something real, namely war. Y'know make the distances at which engagements take place realistic, instead of running and gunning all up in your face. Getting hit knocks you out of the fight and you have to wait for medevac. And being killed means permadeath, loss of all progress.
Your on the squad trailer, they added your clip. Mad respect
The fact that the guys who were ambushed and hanged on the bridge were just Delivering mail is sad.. let alone the hanging made it sadder for me
Blackwater was murdered in retaliation for the henious warcrimes they committed. The author of the video conveniently leaves this out.
Delivering mail lol,u serious more like terror
kind of reminds me of the argument of 6 days in fallujah... very few know about it now, but damn we thought that was the most true-to-life experience of the late 2000s in mil sim.
Seeing as this makes you think and reflect on their sacrifice it's an honorable representation.
Thanks for watching.
My personal opinion on war games both campaign and online games is that if just for a second they can make the player get a feeling 1% of 1% of "oh that's what it was like" they have done their job.
I love that take
They should of talked to the men that fought the battle when they made it.
This.
Writing a paper related to this subject. The problem with our media is that we sometimes pull our punches when it comes to historical memory. And yet video games are an amazing medium for capturing history. I’m thankful that Squad didn’t pull punches.
Amazing map, they should change the uniforms and vehicles tho, i see some historical inaccuracies
For sure
@Roniixx i know, but sill, i'm talking about this specific map, they wanted to recreate the battle of fallujah, the map is actually pretty good, very well made, but seeing american soldiers with modern 2019-2020 equipment and uniforms is kinda off
@Roniixx ok
@Roniixx they say its ww3 or something say they can avoid controversy and stuff they wanted to recreate the battle of fallujah
I was in Iraq when this went down. The Marines overtaking of Fallujah just pushed all the insurgents into our sector, which sucked big nuts.
We asked for accuracy, we got accuracy
I really thought this video was going to go the other direction. I'm so happy it didn't. Excellent work.
Thanks for watching. Plenty of others haven't given it a chance.
I need a pc, I feel like I’m missing out.
I mean storming the beaches of Normandy in CoD II was pretty insane..We need to honor history.