Another great one, thanks Steve 👍 It's shocking that they have stuck with pretty much the same design since 2004 when it was in the 2.7 litre form, knowing the engine was sub-standard. Even the newer 3.0 in the L405 and L494 which have tabbed bearings still fail because of the crank design. It's a complete lottery, some have gone to 300k, others have failed after a few thousand miles. Keep up the great work, hopefully you'll get another engine for decent price 👍
I remember taking the engine out of an old FWD Vauxhall Cavalier after the owner had selected second and not fourth coming off the motorway...! The resultant damage was biblical! A conrod had tried to exit the block but the starter motor had stopped it, so it exited the other side, literally splitting the block in two. I still have the mangled remains of the rod that I fished out of the sump!
Many years ago I used to work for GM diesel and when the first 6V92 series (thats a V6 ) diesel came out they were snapping crankshafts as well until they figured out what was going on. When I spoke to one of the engineers that came to look at the problem he let slip that a V6 configuration has a lot of torsional problems inherent in the design. I think they fixed the problem in the end by changing out the viscus dampener which is the diesel version of a harmonic dampener on steroids.
Nice video. Can I use a bit of it in a future video? Specifically the footage of the broken crank and your explanation? Of course we will show and link your channel. Christian
What an amazing series of videos. Thanks so much for sharing the V6 disaster progress on this car. I’m pretty clueless when it comes to mechanical stuff like this so it is really interesting to see ‘inside’ and exactly what happens when these cranks snap that I have heard so much about on the V6s…. I have a 4.4 tdv8 L322 that I love and have avoided the discos and sports because of this crank snapping horror stories, but I am well aware the TDV8 is not totally immune to a similar issue so keeping everything crossed. Hopefully less chance though. What an appalling design !
This brings back memories of 1980 when the crankshaft on my '76 Triumph Stag , with just 34,000 miles on the clock , snapped in half doing 70 MPH on a French motorway . When I eventually got it home and got the heads off I nearly got sick when I saw the resulting damage . You would think someone had taken a sledge hammer to the inside of the block .
The Aussie built Territory uses the 2.7L diesel but they improved the bearings. I am not aware of any major issues (apart from common EGR issues) with the Aussie Territory using the 2.7L Diesel. Very nice and smooth engine. However I prefer the Aussie designed and built 4L inline six "Barra".
We also had the 2.7, it was replaced by the 3.0 in 2009. The major issues I've seen with the 2.7 are spun main bearings, knocking big ends and the casting on the oil pump that holds the cambelt tensioner snaps off.
3.0 TDV6 models (also fitted to a Jaguar XF) suffer predominantly with big end bearing failure causing damage to the crankshaft and engine block. This is synonymous with the 2.7 TDV6 engine which are also renowned for the crankshaft physically snapping causing even more severe damage
The 3.0 fails because of bearing shells turning in the housing cutting off oil supply. The 2.7 fails because the crank webs are too thin due to designers trying to fit a big lump into a small engine bay.
Been there bought a T shirt last year rebuilt Disco 4 306DT couldn’t get a lump and new one from Land Rover was out of price range so bought forged crank etc and rebuilt it lucky for me it only was a big end failure Good work mate
A bit more effort from the manufacturer and they could have had a bulletproof engine. Was really surprised how thin the metal on the crankshaft. They still haven't learned loads of problems with the metal quality on the balancer shafts in discovery sport
So I bought myself an 07 range rover sport, the seller had been told it needs a possible engine rebuild so decided to have a go, for 1400 can't go wrong really i got the time.. however, the crank turns! There is no wobble or anything so that says to me that it hasn't snapped. Some new oil and wd all over the place and I will try start it. 😁 only bought a new battery so far. Plenty profit to be made here if I don't decide to keep it. 😎
This why I love the inline six in my old Merc W211 as was the M57 in my previous e46 BMW 330d, both million miler's with top drawer servicing schedule's. Diesels just don't seem to do well in a V6 configuration. The engine that replaced the 3.2 in mine was the woeful 3.0 V6 again utter shit after 100k as was the 3.0 V6 TDI in many VAG offerings.
A bit late but might help someone a former colleague of mine used to buy old Jaguars with the 2.7 at almost scrap prices and put the engines in D3s that had lunched their engines took about 3 days in all.
I cant see how workshop staff would know better than the manufacturer, it's dependant on ambient temperature though. 5w30 is what they should have for the UK
@@pistonbroke in Central Northern Europe the climate is similar so I don't see any obstacles in using 5w40 or 5w30 but 5w40 has a much more durable oil film, better withstands temperature loads, more temperature stable, these are just our sights but of course they know better in a land rover
Viscosity is correlated to clearances and tolerances held in manufacturing, the thinner is less draggy and provides better heat flushing effect. Stick with recommendations. Low ash is to protect items downstream such as dpf. Beware zinc additives in that case.
Not really. To make the Land Rover engines like these live longer people say you need to change the gearbox fluid every 60,000 miles so the crankshaft does not have to deal with the bad stuff. There is also a petition to alert Land Rover to recall this
@@terrificspokesman7416 its horrendous that LR are fully aware of this but decide to ignore it if they recalled and repaired these 3.0 engines their sales would rocket i change my oil every 3000 miles and pray it doesn't go on me
Blimey, you've got me worried now! I've got a 2013 XF 3.0D S, and the engine (and both turbos, I believe) was replaced FOC by JLR when the crankshaft failed at just over 30,000 miles. I thought they'd resolved the problem but maybe not? I'm 72 and not planning on replacing it - I'm expecting it to "see me out" as my Dad would have said! I'm paying for the JLR extended warranty, which is expensive, but brings peace of mind. Bizarre looking crankshaft though with such skinny webs, and I've never seen an engine with four main bearing cap bolts plus two more through the side of the crankcase - crazy. Might look for a decent V8 and chop it in.
GREAT VIDEO not only that but all the comments are so educating . Good job . I don't own a Range Rover yet but i'm thinking to get one , around 2006-7 . Doing some research in advance how to fix it when it goes boom. My 4 years old daughter gets car sick a lot and maybe the smooth ride air suspension will help . PS i have a mk1 citroen c5 , good but not great , is soft but boat ish . PS 2 i work in a garage so have access to ramp and tools.
Thanks for a great video again. You seem to be really proficient in servicing this engine. In the video you mentioned that overall this is such a bad design. By looking at the number of failures, there must be indeed something going on. But I would like to ask a different question: do you think there is something about the maintenance that can be done in order to improve its reliability? Some of the units made 500000 km... so maybe it is more about the way people use and maintain those engines?
Maintenance will play a huge part. These need to be serviced at the correct intervals and most importantly, the correct oil must be used. Still touch and go whether or not it'll blow up though, I've seen bottom ends knocking at 20,000 miles.
For a start, they've made the engine so short so it fits transversley in the fwd citroens and peugeots that they have compromised the strength of the crankshaft. There is no meat on it between the journals. Bearing shells spin because there is no locating lug.
@@pistonbroke right, this is what people say: crankshaft is too weak. On the other hand some of them were capable of doing some decent milage. Mine 2.7 HDi has recently died (crankshaft completely sized) but I found 7.5 liters of "oil" in the sump (should be 5.5). This time the bottom of the engine should not be blamed, but something else. I just wonder if this type of engine can ever be restored to the level that will make me sleep well. Or is it mission impossible? BTW. I have heard that those locks are not to prevent shells from spinning. I heard that the pressure applied on both shells (which are a bit too large, on purpose) during assembly is enormous and should keep them in place and they spin only when something is really wrong..
Thanks for coming back Steve is there a place to get all torque setting please I know you give them in your videos but I haven’t the time to watch them all again as good as they are I need mains and big end cheers Derek
I'm Curious, and late to the party here but i have an XF which i believe is pretty much the same engine apart from a few tiny tweaks. Why is it I see so many more LR's and RR's affected more than the Jaguars? Is it down to the additional four-wheel drive and just weight? I know engine design isn't the best but i find it strange how Jags don't get it as often, they do suffer I'm aware of that just seems to be nowhere near.
Il problema è che nelle LR e RR il filtro antiparticolato è posizionato lontano dal motore. Il filtro non riesce a raggiungere le alte temperature richieste e quindi non conclude i cicli di rigenerazione. A causa dei continui cicli di rigenerazione, il gasolio va a finire nella coppa dell'olio e quindi si contamina e non riesce piu a lubrificare correttamente. Se fai percorsi brevi, inferiori ai 18/20 km, devi sostituire l'olio ogni 7000 km o quando lo strumento ti richiede il service. Se ti attieni a questa manutenzione frequente non avrai problemi. I 3.0 V6 diesel di JLR usati su percorsi autostradali e non nei percorsi brevi non hanno questi problemi e percorrono oltre 350.000 km. Ciao, saluti dall'Italia
5k ish for an engine. Diesel at higher price than petrol.. 30 mpg for diesel 3.0ltr. Compared to 4.2 supercharge petrol lower cost.. 15/17 mpg at best.. les of engine failure… So what would you choose??? If your a high milers then mpg over maintenance.. low milers just low mpg??.
Cheers Steve l managed to find a new genuine Land Rover crank and bearings so the rebuild will start as soon as it arrives, where about s are you based and thanks again
Thank you for the detailed explanation. My 2017 3.0 TDV6 motor did exactly this. I wished i would have seen this video before buying the car, i was at the dealership and they had another TDV6 in there for the same reason. Is there anyway to try and prevent this from a maintenance point of view or is this going to happen again with the new engine they put in?
Piston Broke haha 😂 yeah that’s the conclusion I’ve slowly come to from watching all the you’re great videos, was playing with the idea of one as I always loved the look of them but the taunts of it been a ticking bomb puts me off. Cheers for your honesty keep up the great work 👍
Hey i just love ur videos .. i have a question just got one of these engine its all takin out and i have to put it back together .. my question is that the shaft pulley turn the whole way on the crankshaft and hold on it when u tighten up the bolt or it sits one way on the shaft ? Because pulley has a sign from the inside as it fits one way on the shaft. Thank u
question? if ur still about, rrsport 2011 3.0 80k suddenly stood still at lights a loud noise like a giant aluminium roulet wheel with the ball running, stoped the car as very little power, there was a line of oil behind car about 20 meters, i tried starting which it did run but again same noise, turned off checked underneath oil pissing out passengers side what looked like turbo, checked oil and still says i’m on half full do you think it’s the turbo? or has it took my engine out ? like said still starts but that noise and no dash warnings at all? im lost
@@pistonbroke thanks yeah getting it taken from glasgow to atherstone in the next few weeks, as no one up here will even take it on they have the fear when it comes to rrsports lol hoping its only the turbos its hard to describe the sound but turbo failure makes sense as the sound was like a metallic fan blade hitting something something at high speeds
Hello mate,a quick question for you I have 2015 Range Rover sport and it’s making a clicking sound from the top end off the engine.would you no what it is.
Why are the bearing caps bolted from the side as well as four bolts holding them down, is the block casting not strong enough for the stresses involved
Hello, how are you, I have a question for you, is the Land rover Range rover 2013 2014 5.0 engine good? or is the 3.0 motor ok? Which engine is Jaguar or BMW?
Steve can you suggest the better engine choice than this one? I'm considering a range rover and have been looking at the 4.4 tdv8 or sdv8. Are there any significant issues with these engines, crankshaft etc? Or are they a better bet? Andy
Tdv8/sdv8 is the one to go for. They still have problems but not major stuff like the tdv6. Or better still if you can afford the fuel, supercharged v8.
@@pistonbroke Cheers Steve, I had a feeling the v8 was the better engine, I can't afford new so will have to find a well maintained used one. Father in law has just bought a brand spanking new 5.0 autobiography as he's loaded lol. I wish 🤑. If I get one I'll be in touch for any issues!where you based?
Hi great video, not watched the others yet but can i ask - in another crank issue video by someone else they mention if you have a sdv6 with 8 speed auto box these are immune to the problem ??? Can you throw any light on that. Thanks
We actually had a sign in our shop (Sunnyvale CA) that said "Bring more Cash for British Made Crap" Still true 40 years later. I remember going to a BMC dealer back in the 1970's and looking at the NEW Jags. They had a carpeted showroom and the cars had plastic hung underneath to catch the leaking oil. British cars make Chevys (Ford was in on the TDV6 design) look good which says it all.
@@pistonbroke it's weird that they break at the front of the engine. Surely there is only 33% of the engine torque where that one broke. I heard a theory that a bad harmonic balancer might be causing it as it's at the front. Any opinion?
@@pistonbroke I don't agree. When you are decelerating the gearbox is driving the engine. The flywheel/driveplate has to turn all six cylinders, the middle back main is driving four, and where it broke is only driving two. Whatever is going on the point that it broke is only connected to the front two cylinders, the valve train, high pressure pump and harmonic balancer.
@@pistonbroke Thanks, just been looking at how many videos there are about the TDV6 breaking cranks. Reminds me of the Mini and 1100 transfer gear bearings back in 1972 when I was receptionist in BL garage service dept. I don't know how ordinary people paid the bills for those repairs back then.
@@pistonbroke I find EV systems easier to deal with, but that's when you have access to manufacturer's diagnostic kit. An independent is always going to struggle when faced with a manufacturer blocking out the competition.
@@Wim19758 It was a joint venture with Ford/PSA. I haven't found one bulletproof French engine since the old TUD, but that was pretty hopeless at pulling a car about.
Hello bud i have got same engine but oil leaks from under the crank pully at 8.10 the 3rd hole is where oil pissing in mine ( do you reckon its crank oil seal or the oil pump need chaning ) been watching all your videos for a long time 👍
You mean the hole in the bottom of the timing belt cover? If so then yeah could be a crank seal or one of the cam seals or rocker cover gasket and oil is running down. Cover will have to come off to see properly.
@@pistonbroke thanks alot last question the middle crank pully bolt can come out if i lock the crank from starter ? Or needs special tool ? Other then the timing tool !
@@evansmarts775 they are stupidly tight, flywheel lock would be better than the timing tool especially if your car is manual as the pin for a manual is way thinner. On this one I had to heat the head of the bolt to get it undone.
Had the same failure on my 2.7 TDV6. The problem is Peugeot's fault. They wanted to be able to transverse mount the LION engine, and as such needed it to be 2inches shorter. It's all their bloody fault. The TDV8 does not have this problem as a result. Put a Jag engine in mine, runs sweet after a bottom end rebuild. Did you put a new oil pump on the D4 when you did it?
@@sgottabeford it's quite involved. Luckily the D3 was designed for it to fit (the actual option to have one fitted just never happened) but you basically need a written off RRS with the TDV8 as a donor. Looms & ECU's and so on need swapping, bastardising and so on. There's a chap oop north who's done one - have a look on the discovery 3 & 4 owners group on faceache.
Does anybody know if the EGR valves can be removed without body off, I have stripped the engine bay to get access to them but cant see how to split the EGR from the cooler or remove the pipe from the exhaust, just no room. Nightmare cars.
Hi Steve love watching you videos was wondering if you could help me out currently getting my 4.4tdv8 2013 engine build back up but for the life of me can’t find any torque settings for the main + big end bearings was wondering you could help me out with those if possible please Thanks
@@pistonbroke no problem thank you One last question Im going to installing a new rear crank oil seal but believe there is a special tool required to install it as it has to go on at a certain position Just wanted to confirm if this is the case or are can it be done another way presuming it’s the same as the 3.0tdv6 Thank you
I've never seen one but if it incorporates the crank sensor ring, or you need to take the crank sensor ring off then you will need a special tool to put it in the right place. Without seeing it I can't say for sure.
I haven't had anything to do with the citroen so I don't know. There are big differences between the citroen/peugeot and jlr engines. C5/407 engine will not fit into jlr vehicles as there are no castings for the engine mounts.
This was Intentionally design like that to snap of! They spend millions to make engines to brake after a certain amount of time, for the consumer to buy a new one! That is incredible!
Rubbish, think of the amount of court cases against the manufacturer if it was designed like that. Engines and drive trains etc will have an life expectancy when in normal use (ie, 100/200 thousand miles is a good innings as an average ) and when strict servicing is carried out but no built in fails I'm afraid
No it wasn't. That's total horse shit. Noone designs stuff to fail. It's not doing them any favours when they fail during the warranty period, which a lot do.
No your talking about planned obsolescence, car industry is too competitive for that to really be a factor. Think of a huge market that's dominated by just a few companies ie mobile phones, planned obsolescence makes a lot more sense and is a genuine thing.
Peugeot and Ford very bad design made the crank smaller to fit in small space so don’t blame Land Rover it’s all down to Ford cost cutting. I think they over done the main bearing cap bolts.
The crankshaft is thin, in places where it shouldn't be, it's a design flaw, probably a result of making the engine as short as possible, even though there's a v8 diesel that fits in the same engine bay.
I'll be the judge of that. After all it's not YOU that's doing it and it's not YOU that will have to do it again if it fucks up. Any damage to the block and I aint rebuilding it. Simple as that.
How could this design gone so horribly wrong? It is from a company that made some of the very best and most durable Diesel mills of all. They even have offered V6's petrols that were unbreakable, and a Diesel V6 variant that was excellent. Many moons ago, though. Anyways, congrats on the rebuilt!
2.7 out of the jag car is same engine could be cheeper buying a right off jag for the engine ! Salvage rebuilds uk, did it on you tube ! Will a p38 fit in or x5 engine ?
This is a 3 litre. I know the engine from the Jag fits as I've done them before. I've also seen salvage rebuilds videos when he did his sport. p38 and x5 are totally different.
Was this originally a ford engine? If it was they did not extract as much power then and not as much stress as this uprated version. Someone needs sacking for not doing there homework on stresses and strains for the upgrade.
LR never do their homework. No long term development testing. It goes straight from the drawing board to production - let the customers find the weaknesses. Then when the customer complains you just brush them off. But then everyone knows what LR are like so no sympathy from me.
@@paulhancock3844 the TDV6 has a design flaw. It doesn't affect the TDV8 but the V6 had the kiss of death from Peugeot who decided they wanted to mount it transversely and as a result, shortened it too much.
I’ve been told land rover have modified this 3.0 engine post 2015 does anybody know what these modifications are, are they using a different crank material ! Stamped. drop forged. cast !
?What about Gardner,Perkins,now owned by CAT,RR diesel also owned by CAT and the Leyland O.680 powered most DAF trucks and was what built that company.
Another great one, thanks Steve 👍 It's shocking that they have stuck with pretty much the same design since 2004 when it was in the 2.7 litre form, knowing the engine was sub-standard. Even the newer 3.0 in the L405 and L494 which have tabbed bearings still fail because of the crank design. It's a complete lottery, some have gone to 300k, others have failed after a few thousand miles. Keep up the great work, hopefully you'll get another engine for decent price 👍
Many people say to make the engine live long replace the gearbox fluid every 60,000 miles so the crankshaft does not have to deal with the junk
@@terrificspokesman7416 what?
Does the supercharged V6 3.0 suffer the same issue as this turbo diesel V6 3.0 does?
@@bonkeydollocks1879He’s got the wrong reason. The zf6 can send shunting forces back through the crankshaft if it has poor oil in it.
I remember taking the engine out of an old FWD Vauxhall Cavalier after the owner had selected second and not fourth coming off the motorway...! The resultant damage was biblical! A conrod had tried to exit the block but the starter motor had stopped it, so it exited the other side, literally splitting the block in two. I still have the mangled remains of the rod that I fished out of the sump!
Many years ago I used to work for GM diesel and when the first 6V92 series (thats a V6 ) diesel came out they were snapping crankshafts as well until they figured out what was going on. When I spoke to one of the engineers that came to look at the problem he let slip that a V6 configuration has a lot of torsional problems inherent in the design. I think they fixed the problem in the end by changing out the viscus dampener which is the diesel version of a harmonic dampener on steroids.
Nice video. Can I use a bit of it in a future video? Specifically the footage of the broken crank and your explanation? Of course we will show and link your channel. Christian
Yes that's fine.
What an amazing series of videos. Thanks so much for sharing the V6 disaster progress on this car. I’m pretty clueless when it comes to mechanical stuff like this so it is really interesting to see ‘inside’ and exactly what happens when these cranks snap that I have heard so much about on the V6s…. I have a 4.4 tdv8 L322 that I love and have avoided the discos and sports because of this crank snapping horror stories, but I am well aware the TDV8 is not totally immune to a similar issue so keeping everything crossed. Hopefully less chance though.
What an appalling design !
This brings back memories of 1980 when the crankshaft on my '76 Triumph Stag , with just 34,000 miles on the clock , snapped in half doing 70 MPH on a French motorway . When I eventually got it home and got the heads off I nearly got sick when I saw the resulting damage . You would think someone had taken a sledge hammer to the inside of the block .
Same thing happened to my dad with his stag too, in Paris!!!
A friend of mine bought a Stag with the small V8 in it ,it drive him nuts trying to keep it going ,he sold it in the end to some other poor bastard.
The Aussie built Territory uses the 2.7L diesel but they improved the bearings. I am not aware of any major issues (apart from common EGR issues) with the Aussie Territory using the 2.7L Diesel. Very nice and smooth engine. However I prefer the Aussie designed and built 4L inline six "Barra".
We also had the 2.7, it was replaced by the 3.0 in 2009. The major issues I've seen with the 2.7 are spun main bearings, knocking big ends and the casting on the oil pump that holds the cambelt tensioner snaps off.
3.0 TDV6 models (also fitted to a Jaguar XF) suffer predominantly with big end bearing failure causing damage to the crankshaft and engine block. This is synonymous with the 2.7 TDV6 engine which are also renowned for the crankshaft physically snapping causing even more severe damage
At least they improved a little lol
The 3.0 fails because of bearing shells turning in the housing cutting off oil supply. The 2.7 fails because the crank webs are too thin due to designers trying to fit a big lump into a small engine bay.
@@paulhancock3844 not enuf bearing surface..too little oil pressure..oil changes too long..bad design..bad guidance
This is the video I have been waiting for. Great stuff 👍👍
Been there bought a T shirt last year rebuilt Disco 4 306DT couldn’t get a lump and new one from Land Rover was out of price range so bought forged crank etc and rebuilt it lucky for me it only was a big end failure
Good work mate
Top man....excellent keep ul the brilliant work.....never gone buy a range rover ever again🤣 thank u for all yr education
Used RRs are generally well preserved state. Well... Its because most of the time they spend in workshop...
A bit more effort from the manufacturer and they could have had a bulletproof engine. Was really surprised how thin the metal on the crankshaft. They still haven't learned loads of problems with the metal quality on the balancer shafts in discovery sport
The manufacturer is Ford ? So called "Ford tough" as they're commercials promote ?
@@merseybeat1963 No, Ford sold Range Rover and Jaguar to Tata Motors in 2008.
So I bought myself an 07 range rover sport, the seller had been told it needs a possible engine rebuild so decided to have a go, for 1400 can't go wrong really i got the time.. however, the crank turns! There is no wobble or anything so that says to me that it hasn't snapped. Some new oil and wd all over the place and I will try start it. 😁 only bought a new battery so far. Plenty profit to be made here if I don't decide to keep it. 😎
Get the battery on it and fire it up, what's the worst that could happen?
This why I love the inline six in my old Merc W211 as was the M57 in my previous e46 BMW 330d, both million miler's with top drawer servicing schedule's. Diesels just don't seem to do well in a V6 configuration. The engine that replaced the 3.2 in mine was the woeful 3.0 V6 again utter shit after 100k as was the 3.0 V6 TDI in many VAG offerings.
A bit late but might help someone a former colleague of mine used to buy old Jaguars with the 2.7 at almost scrap prices and put the engines in D3s that had lunched their engines took about 3 days in all.
the manufacturer talks about 5w30 low ash oil but a lot of workshops say that 5w40 is a better choice for 2.7 and 3.0 engine
I cant see how workshop staff would know better than the manufacturer, it's dependant on ambient temperature though. 5w30 is what they should have for the UK
@@pistonbroke in Central Northern Europe the climate is similar so I don't see any obstacles in using 5w40 or 5w30 but 5w40 has a much more durable oil film, better withstands temperature loads, more temperature stable, these are just our sights but of course they know better in a land rover
Viscosity is correlated to clearances and tolerances held in manufacturing, the thinner is less draggy and provides better heat flushing effect. Stick with recommendations. Low ash is to protect items downstream such as dpf. Beware zinc additives in that case.
Hills at skelmersdale have an 2010 jag xf with light front damage only 58k on the clock sitting at £2150 auction finishes tomorrow
Leaving aside all the dubious environmental claims, of all the videos on TH-cam, this must be one of the best for extolling the benefits of an EV.
I agree.
all the crap bolted to outside of diesel engine is ridiculous.
Thank you for you show this. Did you succeed in it? Now, in 2022. Have a nice day.
I had a 2010 TDV6 Disco and done 145k in it pulling a car transporter everyday! Never had a problem!
Count yourself lucky then.
I’m at 176k SDV6 Disco 4 - change oil every 4-5k miles (C1) and use Liqui Moly Ceratec every other change - to date never missed a beat
On my Now sold 2017 Range rover sport SDV6 engine block i seen the citroen logo moulded into it
👍 Excellent ! Thx !
Better to have the TD6 from BMW... 😉
Not really. To make the Land Rover engines like these live longer people say you need to change the gearbox fluid every 60,000 miles so the crankshaft does not have to deal with the bad stuff. There is also a petition to alert Land Rover to recall this
@@terrificspokesman7416 its horrendous that LR are fully aware of this but decide to ignore it if they recalled and repaired these 3.0 engines their sales would rocket i change my oil every 3000 miles and pray it doesn't go on me
@@andrewbaldwin8766 if I was buying a Range Rover than I wiuld look for an SDV8
@@terrificspokesman7416 what's it got to do with the gearbox? The issue is to do with the crank not upto the job
Swap an M57 from BMW. It's as good as diesel can be
Blimey, you've got me worried now! I've got a 2013 XF 3.0D S, and the engine (and both turbos, I believe) was replaced FOC by JLR when the crankshaft failed at just over 30,000 miles. I thought they'd resolved the problem but maybe not? I'm 72 and not planning on replacing it - I'm expecting it to "see me out" as my Dad would have said! I'm paying for the JLR extended warranty, which is expensive, but brings peace of mind. Bizarre looking crankshaft though with such skinny webs, and I've never seen an engine with four main bearing cap bolts plus two more through the side of the crankcase - crazy. Might look for a decent V8 and chop it in.
You need to replace the gearbox fluid every 60,000 miles which will prolong the engine
@@terrificspokesman7416 Thanks, I'll make sure I do that!
@@spudmurphy764 no worries. Well that's what I've heared from many owners
@@spudmurphy764 many people also want to force JLR to do a recall
Buy a V8 Supercharged and spend the money you would have spent on V6 repairs on petrol instead.😀
GREAT VIDEO not only that but all the comments are so educating . Good job . I don't own a Range Rover yet but i'm thinking to get one , around 2006-7 . Doing some research in advance how to fix it when it goes boom. My 4 years old daughter gets car sick a lot and maybe the smooth ride air suspension will help .
PS i have a mk1 citroen c5 , good but not great , is soft but boat ish .
PS 2 i work in a garage so have access to ramp and tools.
Do yourself a favour and buy a TDV8. The 2.7 & 3.0 diesels are expensive and labour intensive to fix.
Forget that God Forsaken Range Rover and buy a Land Crab if you want a decent ride.
pardon my ignorance what is a land crab?@@bobmitchell8012
Thanks for a great video again. You seem to be really proficient in servicing this engine. In the video you mentioned that overall this is such a bad design. By looking at the number of failures, there must be indeed something going on. But I would like to ask a different question: do you think there is something about the maintenance that can be done in order to improve its reliability? Some of the units made 500000 km... so maybe it is more about the way people use and maintain those engines?
Maintenance will play a huge part. These need to be serviced at the correct intervals and most importantly, the correct oil must be used. Still touch and go whether or not it'll blow up though, I've seen bottom ends knocking at 20,000 miles.
@@pistonbroke Then it must have something to do with the quality of parts?
For a start, they've made the engine so short so it fits transversley in the fwd citroens and peugeots that they have compromised the strength of the crankshaft. There is no meat on it between the journals. Bearing shells spin because there is no locating lug.
@@pistonbroke right, this is what people say: crankshaft is too weak. On the other hand some of them were capable of doing some decent milage. Mine 2.7 HDi has recently died (crankshaft completely sized) but I found 7.5 liters of "oil" in the sump (should be 5.5). This time the bottom of the engine should not be blamed, but something else. I just wonder if this type of engine can ever be restored to the level that will make me sleep well. Or is it mission impossible?
BTW. I have heard that those locks are not to prevent shells from spinning. I heard that the pressure applied on both shells (which are a bit too large, on purpose) during assembly is enormous and should keep them in place and they spin only when something is really wrong..
@@sun_of_a_gun sounds like you had diesel in your oil and yes the bearing without notches use the "engineers nip" method to hold them in
Thanks for coming back Steve is there a place to get all torque setting please I know you give them in your videos but I haven’t the time to watch them all again as good as they are I need mains and big end cheers Derek
Mains - 60nm. 145nm. 90 degrees
Main cap side bolts - 15nm. 33nm. 45 degrees
End caps - 20nm 45 degrees 45 degrees
what engine is a good engine design for offroad vehicles?
I'm Curious, and late to the party here but i have an XF which i believe is pretty much the same engine apart from a few tiny tweaks.
Why is it I see so many more LR's and RR's affected more than the Jaguars?
Is it down to the additional four-wheel drive and just weight?
I know engine design isn't the best but i find it strange how Jags don't get it as often, they do suffer I'm aware of that just seems to be nowhere near.
Il problema è che nelle LR e RR il filtro antiparticolato è posizionato lontano dal motore. Il filtro non riesce a raggiungere le alte temperature richieste e quindi non conclude i cicli di rigenerazione. A causa dei continui cicli di rigenerazione, il gasolio va a finire nella coppa dell'olio e quindi si contamina e non riesce piu a lubrificare correttamente. Se fai percorsi brevi, inferiori ai 18/20 km, devi sostituire l'olio ogni 7000 km o quando lo strumento ti richiede il service. Se ti attieni a questa manutenzione frequente non avrai problemi. I 3.0 V6 diesel di JLR usati su percorsi autostradali e non nei percorsi brevi non hanno questi problemi e percorrono oltre 350.000 km. Ciao, saluti dall'Italia
5k ish for an engine. Diesel at higher price than petrol.. 30 mpg for diesel 3.0ltr.
Compared to 4.2 supercharge petrol lower cost.. 15/17 mpg at best.. les of engine failure…
So what would you choose???
If your a high milers then mpg over maintenance..
low milers just low mpg??.
Great video mate how much would all the work cost 👍🏼
Why is the block scrap if the shells have spun ? Can't it be built up and line bored.?
HI im in trouble rebuilt my discovery 3 top end.oil pump cambelt kits new turbo.timing chains 2recon heads. BUT KNOW THE LITTLE ENDS ARE KNOCKING 😪😪😪.
Cheers Steve l managed to find a new genuine Land Rover crank and bearings so the rebuild will start as soon as it arrives, where about s are you based and thanks again
Good luck! I'm in South Wales.
Is there a more robust crank of a higher spec material available for thim model of engine?
Old school ! No gloves or safety shoes .
Great video and thanks for the info. You should be wareing gloves though !
Typical of manufacturers today . Designed to be fuel efficient and reliable during the warranty period,beyond that they just don’t care .
Sometimes they don't even last the warranty period.
Not even fuel effiecient. Mine did 13 mpg before the crank snapped.
Thank you for the detailed explanation. My 2017 3.0 TDV6 motor did exactly this. I wished i would have seen this video before buying the car, i was at the dealership and they had another TDV6 in there for the same reason. Is there anyway to try and prevent this from a maintenance point of view or is this going to happen again with the new engine they put in?
Not much you can do apart from regular servicing. It might fail again, it might not.
Synthetic 40 w changed before it's time every 4k miles..6k km..ignore factory
Great video lads 👍 big question! Would you buy a discovery 4 with 80 plus thousand miles on it? Even with a good service history??
Wouldn't buy one with no miles on it
Piston Broke haha 😂 yeah that’s the conclusion I’ve slowly come to from watching all the you’re great videos, was playing with the idea of one as I always loved the look of them but the taunts of it been a ticking bomb puts me off. Cheers for your honesty keep up the great work 👍
I've heard of of vvt, so this must be vpt, variable piston timing......... still a few flaws to work out.......
Hey i just love ur videos .. i have a question just got one of these engine its all takin out and i have to put it back together .. my question is that the shaft pulley turn the whole way on the crankshaft and hold on it when u tighten up the bolt or it sits one way on the shaft ? Because pulley has a sign from the inside as it fits one way on the shaft.
Thank u
It can go on any way you like but make sure the bolt is torqued before the timing belt goes on.
@@pistonbroke thank u very much ur the best .. how many NM ?
@@noonecares7681 i can't remember off hand, go to the cam timing video, i mention the torque setting in that one.
question? if ur still about, rrsport 2011 3.0 80k suddenly stood still at lights a loud noise like a giant aluminium roulet wheel with the ball running, stoped the car as very little power, there was a line of oil behind car about 20 meters, i tried starting which it did run but again same noise, turned off checked underneath oil pissing out passengers side what looked like turbo, checked oil and still says i’m on half full do you think it’s the turbo? or has it took my engine out ? like said still starts but that noise and no dash warnings at all? im lost
Sounds like a turbo gone but without seeing it, I wont know for sure. Don't drive it or you'll kill the engine, get it recovered to a garage.
@@pistonbroke thanks yeah getting it taken from glasgow to atherstone in the next few weeks, as no one up here will even take it on they have the fear when it comes to rrsports lol hoping its only the turbos its hard to describe the sound but turbo failure makes sense as the sound was like a metallic fan blade hitting something something at high speeds
This is what happens when accountants design engines
I very much doubt an accountant designed it. There will be a follow up video soon about my theory of why they fail and a more in depth look.
Hello mate,a quick question for you I have 2015 Range Rover sport and it’s making a clicking sound from the top end off the engine.would you no what it is.
Wouldn't know without hearing it but at a guess I'd say probably weak hydraulic tappets.
@@pistonbroke can i send you a video, how do i contact with you,were is your garage located.
Staggering how thin that web is. The engines are high torque so u would expect much more metal there.....talk about penny pinching or crap design.
NWS have new crankshafts if you didnt knew
Land rover sport? What game do you play in it!
:)
I sold my 2017 rang rover on the basis of waiting for it to go bang……it was like walking on broken egg shells driving it.
Why are the bearing caps bolted from the side as well as four bolts holding them down, is the block casting not strong enough for the stresses involved
For strength. The later rover v8 blocks were cross bolted too.
Cross bolting was common on big V8s used for drag racing back in 1960s.
Hello, how are you, I have a question for you, is the Land rover Range rover 2013 2014 5.0 engine good? or is the 3.0 motor ok? Which engine is Jaguar or BMW?
5.0 is ok as far as I know. 3.0 diesel is shit. They are all Jaguar engines apart from the early range rover and freelander which had bmw engines.
@@pistonbroke Thank you for the information😊👍
Steve can you suggest the better engine choice than this one? I'm considering a range rover and have been looking at the 4.4 tdv8 or sdv8. Are there any significant issues with these engines, crankshaft etc? Or are they a better bet? Andy
Tdv8/sdv8 is the one to go for. They still have problems but not major stuff like the tdv6. Or better still if you can afford the fuel, supercharged v8.
@@pistonbroke Cheers Steve, I had a feeling the v8 was the better engine, I can't afford new so will have to find a well maintained used one. Father in law has just bought a brand spanking new 5.0 autobiography as he's loaded lol. I wish 🤑. If I get one I'll be in touch for any issues!where you based?
South Wales mate
@@pistonbroke That's great I live near Barry! 👍
Well there's a stroke of luck!
Designed by by grauates who can use CAD software but never held a spanner
Hi great video, not watched the others yet but can i ask - in another crank issue video by someone else they mention if you have a sdv6 with 8 speed auto box these are immune to the problem ??? Can you throw any light on that. Thanks
I don't know, I thought they were all a ticking time bomb
We actually had a sign in our shop (Sunnyvale CA) that said "Bring more Cash for British Made Crap" Still true 40 years later. I remember going to a BMC dealer back in the 1970's and looking at the NEW Jags. They had a carpeted showroom and the cars had plastic hung underneath to catch the leaking oil. British cars make Chevys (Ford was in on the TDV6 design) look good which says it all.
Fantastic vid. In your opinion is the 3.0 any better or worse than the 2.7?
About the same. They both like to blow up for fun.
@@pistonbroke it's weird that they break at the front of the engine. Surely there is only 33% of the engine torque where that one broke. I heard a theory that a bad harmonic balancer might be causing it as it's at the front. Any opinion?
@@gepwxaqdfsidsesg1548 it could have broke while decelerating, then all the turning force is at the back.
@@pistonbroke I don't agree. When you are decelerating the gearbox is driving the engine. The flywheel/driveplate has to turn all six cylinders, the middle back main is driving four, and where it broke is only driving two. Whatever is going on the point that it broke is only connected to the front two cylinders, the valve train, high pressure pump and harmonic balancer.
I'm curious, is any history of timing belt issues with this car?
Lost count of the engines I have fitted with a broken crankshaft all broken in the same place. Good for business
So any idea is car had auto or manual gearbox, if it broke at low speed heavy load or medium speed cruise or high speed blast?
I don't know what speed it was doing but it was pulling a caravan up hill. It's an auto
@@pistonbroke Thanks, just been looking at how many videos there are about the TDV6 breaking cranks.
Reminds me of the Mini and 1100 transfer gear bearings back in 1972 when I was receptionist in BL garage service dept.
I don't know how ordinary people paid the bills for those repairs back then.
Which is a better engine this or the SDV8 and what is the common problems with the SDV8
my thoughts exactly. bit of research on the TDV8 - unless anyone here knows?
And Land Rover say there is no such problem, yeh right !!
By the look of that engine it has been very poorly maintained, which will ruin most engines.....
With IC engine ancillaries becoming so bloody complex due to emission control, I'm sort of looking forward to the simplicity of EVs 😀
EV's are not simple
@@pistonbroke I find EV systems easier to deal with, but that's when you have access to manufacturer's diagnostic kit. An independent is always going to struggle when faced with a manufacturer blocking out the competition.
Astonishing. 99.9% of car manufacturers sorted out breaking crankshafts in the 1960's and here we have LandRover chucking out this rubbish.
VW engine breaks the same.
It's Peugeot/Citroen's engine, not JLR.
@Rose White No they don't. Zero VW diesel has a common issue with crankshafts snapping.
@@jledge8715this engine is produced at Ford in England and has nothing to do with the bulletproof DW engines from PSA
@@Wim19758 It was a joint venture with Ford/PSA. I haven't found one bulletproof French engine since the old TUD, but that was pretty hopeless at pulling a car about.
Weld and machine the inner face on the block.
I think they look good , would be proud to buy british but the never ending reliability issues put me off !!
Hello bud i have got same engine but oil leaks from under the crank pully at 8.10 the 3rd hole is where oil pissing in mine ( do you reckon its crank oil seal or the oil pump need chaning ) been watching all your videos for a long time 👍
You mean the hole in the bottom of the timing belt cover? If so then yeah could be a crank seal or one of the cam seals or rocker cover gasket and oil is running down. Cover will have to come off to see properly.
@@pistonbroke the hole right between crank pully and oil sump, where you put the broken piece of crank just in front of that the oily hole
@@evansmarts775 thats the timing belt cover
@@pistonbroke thanks alot last question the middle crank pully bolt can come out if i lock the crank from starter ? Or needs special tool ? Other then the timing tool !
@@evansmarts775 they are stupidly tight, flywheel lock would be better than the timing tool especially if your car is manual as the pin for a manual is way thinner. On this one I had to heat the head of the bolt to get it undone.
Had the same failure on my 2.7 TDV6. The problem is Peugeot's fault. They wanted to be able to transverse mount the LION engine, and as such needed it to be 2inches shorter. It's all their bloody fault. The TDV8 does not have this problem as a result.
Put a Jag engine in mine, runs sweet after a bottom end rebuild. Did you put a new oil pump on the D4 when you did it?
Yeah D4 had a new oil pump
What's involved in slotting in the V8? Is the computer on the engine or is there a big wiring change?
@@sgottabeford it's quite involved. Luckily the D3 was designed for it to fit (the actual option to have one fitted just never happened) but you basically need a written off RRS with the TDV8 as a donor. Looms & ECU's and so on need swapping, bastardising and so on. There's a chap oop north who's done one - have a look on the discovery 3 & 4 owners group on faceache.
Does anybody know if the EGR valves can be removed without body off, I have stripped the engine bay to get access to them but cant see how to split the EGR from the cooler or remove the pipe from the exhaust, just no room. Nightmare cars.
Yes they do come out but fiddly. 2.7 is easier. On the 3.0 I had to put a prybar in and bar the engine over to get it out.
@@pistonbroke Wow, did you split it from the cooler or take the whole unit? Thanks for the response.
What would be the best engine choice in the Range Rover sport L320 ? You’ve scared me off the 3ltr, I was hoping it was better than the 2.7.
TDV8 is your best bet. The TDV6's are shit.
@@pistonbroke Thanks mate that’s the one I’ll go for.
@@pistonbroke what’s your thoughts on the 5ltr v8 petrol or the supercharged 5ltre ?
I've not had any experience with them but they don't suffer crank failures like the tdv6.
@@pistonbroke TDV6 will be good if you do everything correctly and on time
Hi Steve love watching you videos was wondering if you could help me out currently getting my 4.4tdv8 2013 engine build back up but for the life of me can’t find any torque settings for the main + big end bearings was wondering you could help me out with those if possible please
Thanks
Sorry, I have no idea. I've never stripped a TDV8.
@@pistonbroke no problem thank you
One last question
Im going to installing a new rear crank oil seal but believe there is a special tool required to install it as it has to go on at a certain position
Just wanted to confirm if this is the case or are can it be done another way presuming it’s the same as the 3.0tdv6
Thank you
I've never seen one but if it incorporates the crank sensor ring, or you need to take the crank sensor ring off then you will need a special tool to put it in the right place. Without seeing it I can't say for sure.
In Citroen C5 is the same engine only diference is oil, citroen says 5w40 and LR 5w30, did you seen any C5 with failed engine???
I haven't had anything to do with the citroen so I don't know. There are big differences between the citroen/peugeot and jlr engines. C5/407 engine will not fit into jlr vehicles as there are no castings for the engine mounts.
This was Intentionally design like that to snap of! They spend millions to make engines to brake after a certain amount of time, for the consumer to buy a new one! That is incredible!
Rubbish, think of the amount of court cases against the manufacturer if it was designed like that. Engines and drive trains etc will have an life expectancy when in normal use (ie, 100/200 thousand miles is a good innings as an average ) and when strict servicing is carried out but no built in fails I'm afraid
No it wasn't. That's total horse shit. Noone designs stuff to fail. It's not doing them any favours when they fail during the warranty period, which a lot do.
What's incredible is your inability to spell 'break'.
No your talking about planned obsolescence, car industry is too competitive for that to really be a factor. Think of a huge market that's dominated by just a few companies ie mobile phones, planned obsolescence makes a lot more sense and is a genuine thing.
Hi any chance I can call you or you call me? Kinda stuck on this one :/
There is a petition to alert Land Rover about this and make sure they do a recall
Land rover know about it. Petition or not, they wont recall them.
@@pistonbroke the government maybe should do something but I have heared you need to do proper servicing and gearbox service at the correct milage
@@pistonbroke they had recalled them in China I think
Oh definitely. That's any manufacturers get out clause. If it's not serviced properly or on time then you wont have a leg to stand on.
@@pistonbroke is this true. If I am considering a RRS should I go for the SDV8 or SDV6. Is the maintenance thing true.
Why these engines broke their crankshafts?
Because they're made of chocolate
How common is this failure? Does it happen after a certain mileage or is it due to something else?
It's fairly common, totally random if/when it happens and a full service history makes no difference. If it's going to go, it'll go at some point.
@Piston Broke Garage hi there ! Any idea if there s any improved aftermarket crankshaft available, to replace prior to any failure?
Peugeot and Ford very bad design made the crank smaller to fit in small space so don’t blame Land Rover it’s all down to Ford cost cutting. I think they over done the main bearing cap bolts.
Hallo! Why is this thing happening to these engines? The oil pump is not good, or they are not changed in time . Thank you!
The crankshaft is thin, in places where it shouldn't be, it's a design flaw, probably a result of making the engine as short as possible, even though there's a v8 diesel that fits in the same engine bay.
@@mikester1290
Hi,could it be replaced by other engine v8 ? Thanks
engine packages are getting more and more ridiculously complicated - it seems electric vehicles will be a far better bet!
Is the 2.7 any better in the webbing?
Both the same
NO WAY is that block toast
I'll be the judge of that. After all it's not YOU that's doing it and it's not YOU that will have to do it again if it fucks up. Any damage to the block and I aint rebuilding it. Simple as that.
10w60 sintetic oil no problem 400+ t km
Why do you say the whole engine is a bad design ? Back when it debuted it was well regarded. And the CGI block construction sounds promising ....
No it's not a bad design, well except for the poor mechanic that has to fix it! They didn't think about us when they designed it.
How could this design gone so horribly wrong? It is from a company that made some of the very best and most durable Diesel mills of all. They even have offered V6's petrols that were unbreakable, and a Diesel V6 variant that was excellent. Many moons ago, though. Anyways, congrats on the rebuilt!
Like the discoveries wonderful cars with rubbish short block engines
Shame they dont do discovery 3 on 3.6 engine
Drop a disco body on a range rover sport chassis and you'll have one!
@@pistonbroke great idea
Was more after 7 seater they dont do 7 in range
2.7 out of the jag car is same engine could be cheeper buying a right off jag for the engine ! Salvage rebuilds uk, did it on you tube ! Will a p38 fit in or x5 engine ?
This is a 3 litre. I know the engine from the Jag fits as I've done them before. I've also seen salvage rebuilds videos when he did his sport. p38 and x5 are totally different.
@@pistonbroke you can fit the TDV8 also :)
@@cyberprog now there's a thought.
Crankshaft is designed with fail
Was this originally a ford engine? If it was they did not extract as much power then and not as much stress as this uprated version. Someone needs sacking for not doing there homework on stresses and strains for the upgrade.
LR never do their homework. No long term development testing. It goes straight from the drawing board to production - let the customers find the weaknesses. Then when the customer complains you just brush them off.
But then everyone knows what LR are like so no sympathy from me.
To take the body off to take the engine out is a joke.
Ghastly engines. 😢
Un peu de Patafix et ça repart!
Need to get a re chargeable ratchet mate,life would be so much easier on the wrists
Got one, a milwaukee, didn't have it with me though.
Why so many fail on land rovers but not on Jaguars ?
Cos thos RR/LR owners suing them for towing lol. That's why
is this engine teh same as the VW v6?
No
@@pistonbroke Main caps and cross bolting looked similar.
Thanks for the vid. Do all crankshafts snap at one point or does it happen to some, only?
They don't all break
@@pistonbroke Phew! What a relief! thanks
@@davidf.8497 no, some just spin their bearings.
@@cyberprog that's a different issue and can happen with any engine if you don't look after the oil
@@paulhancock3844 the TDV6 has a design flaw. It doesn't affect the TDV8 but the V6 had the kiss of death from Peugeot who decided they wanted to mount it transversely and as a result, shortened it too much.
Where you are based for repairs?
I’ve been told land rover have modified this 3.0 engine post 2015 does anybody know what these modifications are, are they using a different crank material ! Stamped. drop forged. cast !
Later engines have lugs on the main shells in the block. As far as I know, everything else is the same.
What was the mileage?
112,000 I think. This was years ago so I can't really remember
Why are Jaguar / Land Rover so Crap of late......
Went to shit in 2005 when the disco 3 was launched and downhill ever since. They were OK when BMW owned land rover.
Britain has never made any decent diesel engine
It's not our diesel dude, it hasn't been British since 1994.
@@richardburns5925 lol
Chinese internals by ford.
?What about Gardner,Perkins,now owned by CAT,RR diesel also owned by CAT and the Leyland O.680 powered most DAF trucks and was what built that company.