Yes, but it has changed. Today Kremlin's propaganda report a deluge of mixed facts to appeal to post-fact mental state, destroying meaning of facts and reality by deafault. Emotional manipulation is just one part of it.
Did Anastasia Trofimova really say that her film is "not propaganda"? Did she really claim that she was there without official permission? How stupid does she think we are? And how naive or how complicit were the members of the Canada Media Fund?
What really surprised me is that despite the OBVIOUS support from the Kremlin, the movie still doesn’t manage to paint the Russian invasion as anything other than a cruel, pointless ego trip with not even the frontline soldiers having any real idea on why they are there. Can you imagine how bad the situation must be when this is your propaganda material?
The fact that mordor manages to infiltrate into western world and manipulate our opinion evokes anger in me. There are many people who are not immune to that and get their point of view muddled by this kind of propaganda. Thank you a lot for making this content that is very much needed 😊
I'm pretty sure the Nazi soldiets had humane ralations between themselves, they wore warm uniforms, they had a cause to fight, they had their perspective, they were ordinary guys having an understanding of their own of what was happening at the war, they had emotions and a real life... So what? Aggression is aggression, ee cannot cleanse and rinse it off by art or "art".
@@ohajohaha Also the Einsatzen Gruppen. Middle aged family men who cleared up and massacred the Jews in the Baltic States and USSR after the army had gone through. They took photos of themselves (here’s one I shot earlier) smiling - like they were on holiday - and sent them home with fond family letters.
Its like dictator photos with cute kids showing how warm they are... "Well the one shooting the photos cannot be everywhere" - gulags or cincentration camps... Sound logic? I do not think so... Murderer stays murderer despite he has relateable good relationships with friends, pets or have wife and kids.
I cant believe that it is possible that Europeans allow themselves to be bewitched by idea of poor ordinary occupants and their suffering on the occupied destroyed by them cities.
and what does she mean? If she's implying that it's not safe for Russian civilians to be in Ukraine, that's not true. Or is she saying she would be killed by Russia?
I was kind of expecting a bit comprehensive analysis on what what propaganda might look like, but it spent 5 minutes on talking about doubleganger, which is an actual exposed operation with great reach and wider consequences, and spends more than double the time rehashing what you find in twitter comments about the documentary, which was incomplete, superficial and speculative - hardly the deep dive it claims to be.
She uses the same soundbites from renowned conflict journalists when discussing conflicts that resulted from colonial and post-colonial politics, but in this context, they are so grossly misplaced that those soundbites lose all the seriousness they once had.
Good take, but if among those who pretend not to understand what's going on here are genuine people, i invite you to yesterday's (19/9/24) Operator Starsky's deep dive on Kremlin's information operations. There is so much more. Though if you cannot see the difference of condemnation of on invading Russian army from general poulation, screw you.
How does the narrative that the Russian soldiers are human beings in any way make the invasion any less of the Russians fault? We all know what humans can do to each other, and the fact that ‚ordinary guys‘ commit all these war crimes and atrocities only serves as a chilling reminder what authoritarianism does to a population and why authoritarian regimes are a threat and a danger long before they attack militarily.
i would like to apply anywhere for a job in countering russian propaganda, anywhere in the world, to develop counternaratives and expose their propaganda, iv been following the former ussr space for ten years with extreme focus on moldova and ukraine, and some eastern european countries, if anyone would like to hire an analist , comunicator and strategist, please feel free to reach out for a talk, i would really like to get pay for my anti russian activity online from the past 5 years
I can't pay, but am studying this myself and would love to compare notes. I've noticed things nobody talks about. My email should be avail in my Profile, as well as my FB. Pls respond with something so I know this comment got through.
Somehow it never works - to be alerted by authorities or watch dogs. Only sentimental outrage towards such "sweet sirop" as propaganda could work out. Fictional movies, etc.
Tks for this "debunkering" video. These propagandists are soooo cynical.! Such a kind of liers... It's difficult for us to know every "back-stage" of those female as simonian and machist as soloviev and this Anastasia T.
"your opinion is a very dangerous symmetry" a sad opinion from someone too biased to see past their own ideal....actually what we all need to understand and grieve for is that on both sides innocent men are dying for politics that really mean nothing. Who knows one of them may have invented perpetual fuel but their lives have been cut short by silly men playing silly games for "power". Don't they realise they too are mortal?
No, on one side is a people defending their country, their democracy, their right to self determination, their right to their language and their right to their culture. On the other side are Putler's soldiers, fighting an unjust war of aggression and committing war crimes. The only innocents dying are the Ukrainian people, soldiers and civilians alike, because this war was forced upon them. They have no choice. RuSSian people can decide not to go and fight for Putler's imperial dreams. RuSSian people can decide to stop the war.
@@iam5085 видимо вы в курсе, что мы можем говорить)) я всё время забываю, что вы "развитые" и живете в мире "основанном на правилах", не говоря кто и где эти правила придумал😁 Просвети, если знаешь)
yeah yeah, classic Russian propaganda we all know and love: 'there are no one set of rules, everything in the world is vague and relative, there are infinite number of ways of doing things, so we can shuffle with any words and meanings; then why can't peace mean war, death mean life, democracy mean lack of thereof etc.' Just your daily dose of Russian brainrot so you don't even have to drink to make your brain hollow.
most of these countries have been at one point attacked by russia, some are it's allies now. But in the west you're allowed to present your own point of view or information that contradicts what's been said in news, while in russia one is send to gulag for such an act. Do a research on gulags, see how you like it. Or would you excuse nazi propaganda and what they did by pointing out other countries' smaller faults?
@@stephenhill545 you mean the imperialistic ambition of the US empire was caught off guard in Vietnam? Please tell me why the US has been waging wars, directly or indirectly, almost the entirety of the post Vietnam war? Almost all countries in the Latin America have been subjugated by the US empire through military actions or regime change operatioms, and then you have Iraq, Yugoslavia, Afghanistan, Syria, Sudan, Libya, Yemenm etc. The color revolutions in the middle east and Eastern Europe are all US backed "democratic" revolutions. The US was involved in the coup in Ukraine in 2014, the color revolutions in Georgia, Belarus, Armenia, and almost all ex USSR member countries.
Propaganda works by appealing to emotions. The point they are trying to make isn’t that Russian soldiers aren’t human, it’s that they have committed war crimes and are now being ‘humanized’ to make them seem alright.
The context makes things worse. This isn’t made in good faith. As they said the documentary doesn’t provide any context in terms of the war and the director previously worked for RT.
I say people in the west swallowing russian propaganda, reproducing russian talking points, supporting totalitarianism, neofacism, colonialism and imperialism are "untermensch". If you've heard this before, perhaps you should start questioning yourself why you've been told this before... Start by gettingvthe big picture: RUSSIA IS THE AGGRESSOR. PERIOD.
There's no need to humanise people who came to another country to kill for money, especially when the director is part of the regime and has obvious bias. We have no need for such trash. Maybe in 70 years, in a slightly more intelligent way like "Generation War"... made from a different russia.
@@Wintage1073 Typically terrorists are non state actors committing violence against civilians, infrastructure or neutral forces for political or ideological gains, not soldiers and conscripts fighting other soldiers and conscripts in pitched battles for land, demography, strategic or economic resources. Civilians die in interstate conflicts it’s a sad reality but true nonetheless. The Ukrainian army has been shelling Russian speaking civilians in the Donbas since 2014, would you call them “terrorists”? If you really want peace I think sneering at and undermining a nuclear power is not the way to find it. To make peace we must try to effectively counter the threat and block it, then reach a negotiated settlement with our foes. You can only do that with people, humans so sometimes humanizing the enemy has it’s benefits.
@@Wintage1073 if I remember correctly it was a coup, a colour revolution backed by the U.S government that started the conflict. Regardless we now have an interstate conflict in Europe in 2024 threatening to drag the rest of the world into war with a nuclear power. I think meeting the enemy from a consolidated position of strength, as men and negotiating peace with men… is what we need to do. Your argument of mer Russian scum is not helping. Maybe a little more history and a little less histrionics is needed from our camp.
The context is that from the Russian perspective all NATO countries, "the US but also OTHER EU countries", are considered the same enemy to target with influence operations.
"Propaganda does not appeal to facts. Propaganda appeals to emotions."
Yes, but it has changed. Today Kremlin's propaganda report a deluge of mixed facts to appeal to post-fact mental state, destroying meaning of facts and reality by deafault. Emotional manipulation is just one part of it.
and Intended for idiots
Did Anastasia Trofimova really say that her film is "not propaganda"? Did she really claim that she was there without official permission? How stupid does she think we are? And how naive or how complicit were the members of the Canada Media Fund?
Russians abroad are getting financing historically easy. Especially compared to Ukrainian media efforts, would never get any help from media funds.
People still vote on Trump. She is not wrong.
What really surprised me is that despite the OBVIOUS support from the Kremlin, the movie still doesn’t manage to paint the Russian invasion as anything other than a cruel, pointless ego trip with not even the frontline soldiers having any real idea on why they are there.
Can you imagine how bad the situation must be when this is your propaganda material?
war criminals making movies about war criminals and saying we are no war criminals. that's ruzzia
america and other countries do that too
Bot
@@seanbrennan9188 keep crying bot
Ivan bot is crying. :D pashol nachyj
@@MrZRagerthose propaganda minions are like internet-gypsies. Nobody likes them to see near their appartment nor comment sections...
The fact that mordor manages to infiltrate into western world and manipulate our opinion evokes anger in me. There are many people who are not immune to that and get their point of view muddled by this kind of propaganda. Thank you a lot for making this content that is very much needed 😊
Very glad to see you guys doing a deep dive on this serious issue in Western media.
the issue with western media is it pretends to be free and unbiased when its the complete opposite
If a Russian mouth is open then Propaganda is coming out . ❤️❤️🇺🇦🇺🇦🙏🏻🇺🇸💪🏻💪🏻
'Worked for RT' should have been enough
Or vomit mixed with vodka and processed horse balls
*if an American mouth is open, then propaganda is coming out
ur an american, you say more propaganda then anyone else in the world
Bot
This film and narrative is such a hypocrisy. Get out of Ukraine - this is how you "humanize".
I'm pretty sure the Nazi soldiets had humane ralations between themselves, they wore warm uniforms, they had a cause to fight, they had their perspective, they were ordinary guys having an understanding of their own of what was happening at the war, they had emotions and a real life... So what? Aggression is aggression, ee cannot cleanse and rinse it off by art or "art".
It's fascinating to read how German Death Camp guards lived outside their "job."
In camps, they were monsters. Outside - family men.
hitler very loved German people and had empaty to them
@@ohajohaha
Also the Einsatzen Gruppen. Middle aged family men who cleared up and massacred the Jews in the Baltic States and USSR after the army had gone through. They took photos of themselves (here’s one I shot earlier) smiling - like they were on holiday - and sent them home with fond family letters.
Wow, russian bots are already here
We can start with carlson tucker...
Ms. Trofimova needs to look into Arendt's concept of the 'banality of evil.' Assuming she is a good-faith actor, which is questionable.
Of course she isn't. She is a psyops operator. And knows exactly what she is doing and doesn't care.
Top notch analysis guys. Y’all do an excellent job.
Its like dictator photos with cute kids showing how warm they are... "Well the one shooting the photos cannot be everywhere" - gulags or cincentration camps... Sound logic? I do not think so... Murderer stays murderer despite he has relateable good relationships with friends, pets or have wife and kids.
I cant believe that it is possible that Europeans allow themselves to be bewitched by idea of poor ordinary occupants and their suffering on the occupied destroyed by them cities.
Because Russian disinformation helps both sides of politics
"If I went there (Ukraine), as a russian, I would be killed."
The perfect statement to end the video. This is her in a single sentence. 17:27
and what does she mean? If she's implying that it's not safe for Russian civilians to be in Ukraine, that's not true. Or is she saying she would be killed by Russia?
Thanks for this.
Most of her films were made for the Russian state-controlled RT Documentary channel.[2][
I was kind of expecting a bit comprehensive analysis on what what propaganda might look like, but it spent 5 minutes on talking about doubleganger, which is an actual exposed operation with great reach and wider consequences, and spends more than double the time rehashing what you find in twitter comments about the documentary, which was incomplete, superficial and speculative - hardly the deep dive it claims to be.
She uses the same soundbites from renowned conflict journalists when discussing conflicts that resulted from colonial and post-colonial politics, but in this context, they are so grossly misplaced that those soundbites lose all the seriousness they once had.
by she you mean Margarita Simonovna Simonyan?
@@wiziek no I ment that girl which gave an interview abou her film
Fix subtitles please.
Good take, but if among those who pretend not to understand what's going on here are genuine people, i invite you to yesterday's (19/9/24) Operator Starsky's deep dive on Kremlin's information operations. There is so much more. Though if you cannot see the difference of condemnation of on invading Russian army from general poulation, screw you.
How does the narrative that the Russian soldiers are human beings in any way make the invasion any less of the Russians fault?
We all know what humans can do to each other, and the fact that ‚ordinary guys‘ commit all these war crimes and atrocities only serves as a chilling reminder what authoritarianism does to a population and why authoritarian regimes are a threat and a danger long before they attack militarily.
i would like to apply anywhere for a job in countering russian propaganda, anywhere in the world, to develop counternaratives and expose their propaganda, iv been following the former ussr space for ten years with extreme focus on moldova and ukraine, and some eastern european countries, if anyone would like to hire an analist , comunicator and strategist, please feel free to reach out for a talk, i would really like to get pay for my anti russian activity online from the past 5 years
I can't pay, but am studying this myself and would love to compare notes. I've noticed things nobody talks about. My email should be avail in my Profile, as well as my FB. Pls respond with something so I know this comment got through.
How sheepish or corrupt are the film festuvals or funders...
They knew it would get people to talk about them, which is all they care about.
Ceterum Censeo Russiam Esse Delendam!
Tamogató kommenet!!!
Russia today tv channels weren't bad per se but they ran deep even in Australia
Somehow it never works - to be alerted by authorities or watch dogs. Only sentimental outrage towards such "sweet sirop" as propaganda could work out. Fictional movies, etc.
Just finishing the 'Putin's Trolls: On the Frontlines of Russia's Information War Against the World' - can't recommend it enough.
🫶🏻🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦✌️👍👍🇱🇹
This documentary is a heresy!
Tks for this "debunkering" video. These propagandists are soooo cynical.! Such a kind of liers... It's difficult for us to know every "back-stage" of those female as simonian and machist as soloviev and this Anastasia T.
Not very well veiled bias here, not at all.
Commenting to amplify this important piece.
"your opinion is a very dangerous symmetry" a sad opinion from someone too biased to see past their own ideal....actually what we all need to understand and grieve for is that on both sides innocent men are dying for politics that really mean nothing. Who knows one of them may have invented perpetual fuel but their lives have been cut short by silly men playing silly games for "power". Don't they realise they too are mortal?
No, on one side is a people defending their country, their democracy, their right to self determination, their right to their language and their right to their culture. On the other side are Putler's soldiers, fighting an unjust war of aggression and committing war crimes. The only innocents dying are the Ukrainian people, soldiers and civilians alike, because this war was forced upon them. They have no choice. RuSSian people can decide not to go and fight for Putler's imperial dreams. RuSSian people can decide to stop the war.
"Честные и независимые журналисты" клеймят пропаганду😂
This is not Russia where you can (by default) say something like that 😂
@@iam5085 видимо вы в курсе, что мы можем говорить)) я всё время забываю, что вы "развитые" и живете в мире "основанном на правилах", не говоря кто и где эти правила придумал😁
Просвети, если знаешь)
@@АртёмЛепехов Being a crybaby is a poor excuse to invade and destroy a country
@@estiar1956 прежде чем что-то писать в следующий раз, мешай кашу а своей голове. Возможно что-то адекватное получится сказать🥸
yeah yeah, classic Russian propaganda we all know and love: 'there are no one set of rules, everything in the world is vague and relative, there are infinite number of ways of doing things, so we can shuffle with any words and meanings; then why can't peace mean war, death mean life, democracy mean lack of thereof etc.' Just your daily dose of Russian brainrot so you don't even have to drink to make your brain hollow.
Vietnam, Yugoslavia, Iraq, Libya, Syria, Sudan, Afghaistan😅😅 western propaganda 😅
most of these countries have been at one point attacked by russia, some are it's allies now. But in the west you're allowed to present your own point of view or information that contradicts what's been said in news, while in russia one is send to gulag for such an act. Do a research on gulags, see how you like it. Or would you excuse nazi propaganda and what they did by pointing out other countries' smaller faults?
The heavy media criticism in the west was the main reason the US pulled out of Vietnam.
Vietnam - invaded by Communist China after the US left.
Afghanistan - occupied and drained of resources by Soviets.
Those countries were destroyed by the ru KGB communists.
@@stephenhill545 you mean the imperialistic ambition of the US empire was caught off guard in Vietnam? Please tell me why the US has been waging wars, directly or indirectly, almost the entirety of the post Vietnam war? Almost all countries in the Latin America have been subjugated by the US empire through military actions or regime change operatioms, and then you have Iraq, Yugoslavia, Afghanistan, Syria, Sudan, Libya, Yemenm etc.
The color revolutions in the middle east and Eastern Europe are all US backed "democratic" revolutions. The US was involved in the coup in Ukraine in 2014, the color revolutions in Georgia, Belarus, Armenia, and almost all ex USSR member countries.
These people are accusing the filmmaker of "humanizing Russia". Are you saying that Russians are "untermensch"? I think I've heard that before.
Propaganda works by appealing to emotions. The point they are trying to make isn’t that Russian soldiers aren’t human, it’s that they have committed war crimes and are now being ‘humanized’ to make them seem alright.
The context makes things worse. This isn’t made in good faith. As they said the documentary doesn’t provide any context in terms of the war and the director previously worked for RT.
I say people in the west swallowing russian propaganda, reproducing russian talking points, supporting totalitarianism, neofacism, colonialism and imperialism are "untermensch". If you've heard this before, perhaps you should start questioning yourself why you've been told this before... Start by gettingvthe big picture: RUSSIA IS THE AGGRESSOR. PERIOD.
Guilty by omission.
You're saying that. Projecting, much?
God forbid a film maker humanizes Russian soldiers.
There's no need to humanise people who came to another country to kill for money, especially when the director is part of the regime and has obvious bias.
We have no need for such trash. Maybe in 70 years, in a slightly more intelligent way like "Generation War"... made from a different russia.
Why should terrorists be humanized?
@@Wintage1073 Typically terrorists are non state actors committing violence against civilians, infrastructure or neutral forces for political or ideological gains, not soldiers and conscripts fighting other soldiers and conscripts in pitched battles for land, demography, strategic or economic resources. Civilians die in interstate conflicts it’s a sad reality but true nonetheless. The Ukrainian army has been shelling Russian speaking civilians in the Donbas since 2014, would you call them “terrorists”? If you really want peace I think sneering at and undermining a nuclear power is not the way to find it. To make peace we must try to effectively counter the threat and block it, then reach a negotiated settlement with our foes. You can only do that with people, humans so sometimes humanizing the enemy has it’s benefits.
@@tallywacker2941 no they have not. It was the terrorstate of russia who started all conflicts in 2014.
@@Wintage1073 if I remember correctly it was a coup, a colour revolution backed by the U.S government that started the conflict. Regardless we now have an interstate conflict in Europe in 2024 threatening to drag the rest of the world into war with a nuclear power. I think meeting the enemy from a consolidated position of strength, as men and negotiating peace with men… is what we need to do. Your argument of mer Russian scum is not helping. Maybe a little more history and a little less histrionics is needed from our camp.
Not only in EU also, also everywhere at the world. Where would you think Indian nationalism came from?? Modi?? Same sh/t, same stories everywhere
0:29 _"not only the US but also OTHER EU countries"_ - I just hope that's not the expert this video is based on..
Mayby translation issue, as translating it back literally to Polish would sound perfectly normal, something like "US but also VARIOUS EU countries"
Nice try sasha
The context is that from the Russian perspective all NATO countries, "the US but also OTHER EU countries", are considered the same enemy to target with influence operations.