Generally speaking, smaller for rifles, larger for pistols. And if you want to shoot long distance go to a scope. That’s nothing new but it helps the algorithm, as I understand, to comment
Through millions of rounds of iterations at USPSA competitions and thousands of competitors the sweet spot for dot size on a handgun is around 6 MOA which corresponds to what you said about medium dots. Big enough to be acquired quickly, small enough for realistic handgun distances. Rifles need to be smaller dots for obvious reasons. Also your astigmatism comes into play because as you turn up the brightness your perceived astigmatic error goes up. Meaning it blooms bad. So bad astigmatisms need smaller dots to start with.
When you explain to someone that "huge" 6moa dot is only covering 1.5" @ 25yds and a mere .5" @ 25 ft., then they start to realize why it's the perfect balance for speed and accuracy on handguns.
Caleb, I think the optimal solution is actually the "circle dot" sights like an Eotech or Holosun. For rapid shots at close range just align the large circle on his chest and pull the trigger. For longer distances align the the dot with the button at the V of his jacket and squeeze the trigger. Simple as dirt, no matter your favorite crayon flavor...
Exactly. Loving my Holosun 510….and I usually avoid Chinesium gun accessories. The MRO HD was my first choice but with a QD mount was going to run about $700. I still might get the MRO but so far the Holosun is impressive.
For a rifle application, circle-dot for sure with a 2 MOA dot for most applications. That covers 4” at 200 yards, 6” at 300. At ranges beyond 300 yards, I want a scope. I don’t know about pistol applications. The couple of times I shot a pistol with a red dot that was it - a big dot.
That's why I like something like Sig's ROMEO5XDR, which can be toggled between a 2 MOA dot or have a 65 MOA circle dot reticle around that 2 MOA dot. Faster pick up, but a bit more pinpoint accuracy without blocking the target.
For super fast pistol draw and getting on target as fast as possible go large MOA. Keeping in mind center of mass and you are shooting combat distances.
Currently, I'm in love with my newest one---cuz it's my newest one! It's a Holosun 507C X2 with the ACSS Vulcan reticle. The tip of the chevron is great for accuracy, the HUGE circle helps newbies as well as finding the chevron if shooting from an odd position, AND you can use the chevron to index size/distance of the target. Caleb, you're a Rock Star (although a Rock Star from circa 1955 with that pommade coif). I can't wait till you get on your Beatles kick.
Yup, same here. I was slow to get on the Holosun train. Intially, I thought of them as a cheap, Chinese knock-off but boy, was I wrong. Holosun optics are nice. I have the 507C on two of my Glocks and recently picked up a 510C for a BCM build. Holosun has won me over!
Small MOA RDS can be brightened up to make bigger, but larger MOA can be dimmed down to make smaller. For me the 3M0A is the best all around, but the larger 8MOA is definitely a lot faster to pick up. Most pistol shot sill be under 50 yards at most, so you can't go wrong with a larger dot.
1 MOA with a circle or similar is my preferred sweet spot. ACSS reticles are also a great solution. 2 MOA is a close second for me. Your mileage may vary.
thats why i love the Holosun-reticle similar to EOtech but everyone can decide for himself if one needs just the point (2 MOA) or only the cirlce (65 MOA) or wants both for quick target aquisition and precision!
My buddy and I go back and forth over dot size on pistols. He's younger and has perfect vision, and is more concerned with making one ragged hole on paper targets at distance than I am. I'm getting older and my eyes are not what they used to be so I see every advantage of a bigger dot for pistols (I have a 5 MOA SRO). Also, I'm more concerned with defensive use of the dot and quick target acquisition than making one ragged hole at distance. I get it with what happened at the mall and that kid had to shoot from a distance of 40 yards a 1 MOA dot would be best, but I prefer to set my carry gun up for what is most likely to happen. Like living in California I have earthquake insurance, not flood insurance. And I do regularly shoot my pistol out to 50 yards, 150 yards, and 250 yards, so I know the bigger cary dot isn't too big.
Increasing brightness on the smaller MOA dots will help to acquire faster in bright light settings, as stated already in the comments the Holosun, Sig and other sights with the 2 MOA dot and 65 MOA circle provide a good combination and is what I prefer. Thanks for the info.
The best dot size is when you have tried and run them and find what is actually best for YOU. When I mean YOU it means depending on your comfort and how healthy your eyes are.
I like a 5 best; I have one on a Ruger Mini-Thirty I sometimes use for deer hunting. It's perfect within the range capability of that gun as a hunting rifle. I do have a 3 on my AR-15, because it's co-witnessed with the Irons. I have no use for a red dot on a pistol.
Good solid info. Thanks! Prior to the cataracts ruining my vision, a 3 MOA dot was great. Then the vision went bad. Later, after cataract surgery in both eyes, my distance vision was perfect. I mean I could see with absolute clarity beyond four feet. However, I lost my close up vision and couldn't focus on the dot sight at all. Ended up shooting with iron sights on rifle, that somehow works ok. Wish I could use a dot sight, but it's not going to happen.
Sorry to hear that you are having vision problems but using a red dot sight should not require close-up focus. With a red dot, you focus on the target and the dot should still be clear because the dot appears to the eye as an object very far away.
@@sbreheny Yes sir, I was able to do that a couple years ago, but now anything up close is a blur. The dot appears like a big red floodlight covering the center of the sight. But the front sight is fine and the rear peep is blurred, but functional enough to shoot accurately. Oddly enough, with a 4" or longer pistol the front sight is visible with arms extended. Yet a compact autoloader or snubnose revolver, the front sight is so blurred it's nearly invisible. The rear sight is fuzzy but usable for my shooting. At my age, everything has become a compromise to do most things I did with ease at an earlier age.
Why compromise. An EOTECH or Holosun with the circle ⭕️ and the dot. Recently got a Holosun 510 and it has been amazing. Let’s you choose ⭕️, 🔴 or ⭕️ with the 🔴 in the center . The MRO HD also has this option.
My fellow astigmatism sufferer, i warmly recommend you to consider some toric contact lenses. I have compound myopic astigmatism, and with those lenses on i can enjoy my holosight with a cripsp, nonblurred dot. Granted, it is not a happy time putting them on, and fishing after those pesky things once you are done with them, but you get used in the end, and the benefits are real. You get to really enjoy shooting wihout having to perch two pair of glasses on your nose, having to wear balistic glasses with an additional set of lenses, or to get actual prescription balistic glasses.
I've been waiting for a company to produce a red/green dot with a reastat controlled dot size. Not a switch that changes the dot to a different reticle but smooth rotation control that changes the size of the dot but keeps it centered on its fixed point of aim. It can be done speaking from an electronic tech of the way back side point of view.
reastat=rheostat? The problem is not the control but how you would generate the dot with a varying size. In a typical red dot sight, the dot is generated by shining light through a reticle (a tiny etching on a piece of glass). The dot is not generated electronically. I think they switch dot sizes by turning on different LEDs or laser diodes to shine through different reticles. You would need to somehow change the reticle size or add optics which could magnify the projected image of the reticle. Certainly not impossible but far more complicated than a red dot with 2 or 3 fixed options.
@@sbreheny lasers can be tuned both thru power sourced and by the lens. Possibly by a motorized adjustable aperture In front of the diod. Not all light produced has to be projected on to the lens. It can reflected off. But I'm certainly no expert and I believe if we can think it then someone will find a way to make it work.
@@None-hq6ws well that I'm sure of. On the other side of the coin, that's what drives innovation and competition. Not to mention that it would be a big step above the rest and make a lot of the other obsolete once proven. And if next if it has onboard variable power like an lpvo but in a red dot package that would be excellent. All the optics out there now where too complicated in past time. Now we got scopes that range and aim for us and can connect to our phones. Just keeps getting better.
I disagree that the larger dots are more better for pistol. If I could, I'd probably have a 1 MOA dot on my pistol. I see no difference between my ability to rapidly acquire a 6MOA dot and a 2MOA. However, when I'm making 100 yard shots with my pistol, I want that 2MOA. I do like multi-reticles like the holosun circle dots as the perfect happy medium. I also like the Trijicon RM08 12.9MOA triangle, because I can use the tip for precision shooting and the whole triangle for dot acquisition. IME complete washout often happens regardless of dot size when using a weapon light. Which is why I still advocate for a visible laser which, when using an optic, replaces your washed-out dot in your reticle.
Do I take it, Caleb, that you don’t care for the Sig Romeo 7 ? (2 moa) When I turn mine up past 7 or 8, it’s very easy to acquire outdoors. If the sun is really bright, I still have 3 or 4 levels available. Enormous battery life and auto on/off have their virtues. Using it on a PC Charger.
like my pistol dot, when on the nightstand, it's 3moa but I keep it bright so light doesn't wash it out, and so it'll be easier to pick up if I need it during the night.
Sorry to say, it was Informative but didn't help, i tried tried a Romeo5 on a shotgun but the line of sight is to high , wonder which model co-witness the iron sight.
I had a 6 MOA Sig Romeo Zero on my Canik...hated it. To me it would cover almost 10" plate @ 50 yards. Bought their 3 MOA version to replace and it was night a day improvement compared to the much larger dot.
@@CountryBoy-zl4fh at any brightness. The problem is non perfect glass + non perfect vision (still 20/20 though) on a pistol red dot. They can call it 6 MOA but when it covers a majority of a 10" plate at 50 yards.....I disagree. Compared to some of my Sig red dots the pistol versions look like a completely different scale. Plus the brightness is depending on ambient light conditions, I can't ask the sun to dim nor the bag guys to turn off the florescent lighting. Well I can ask, but probably won't help ;)
I'm thinking of my pistol dot 3 MOA as a mid, and my rifle dot 1-2 as small... but with either I can turn up the brightness and double the size as well as the quickness of picking up the dot, if need be or that's an issue.
I have a question I am new to the guns so I don’t really know the specific names of the gun but my charging handle won’t fit the lil drop in thing where it falls into the lines,it don’t seem to fit idk whats wrong I have a charging handle that came wit my ar15 and bought a new a complete upper n tried putting my ar15 charging handle and it would not fit btw there both 556 but any help or maybe if u guys can answer I dought it but any gun people in the comments know what’s wrong ?
The best red dot size is the one that is not distorted because you [the viewer] refuse to admit that your vision is no longer perfect. Solution: Etched reticles. Stay classy my friends.
Generally speaking, smaller for rifles, larger for pistols. And if you want to shoot long distance go to a scope. That’s nothing new but it helps the algorithm, as I understand, to comment
Well yes but the first RMR was designed for the rifle
Through millions of rounds of iterations at USPSA competitions and thousands of competitors the sweet spot for dot size on a handgun is around 6 MOA which corresponds to what you said about medium dots. Big enough to be acquired quickly, small enough for realistic handgun distances. Rifles need to be smaller dots for obvious reasons. Also your astigmatism comes into play because as you turn up the brightness your perceived astigmatic error goes up. Meaning it blooms bad. So bad astigmatisms need smaller dots to start with.
When you explain to someone that "huge" 6moa dot is only covering 1.5" @ 25yds and a mere .5" @ 25 ft., then they start to realize why it's the perfect balance for speed and accuracy on handguns.
Prismatic sights are MUCH better for people with astigmatism.
They are not generally available in pistol-sized sights though.
Lol, my red dot is a sideways red comma, I've adapted. 👍
Caleb, I think the optimal solution is actually the "circle dot" sights like an Eotech or Holosun. For rapid shots at close range just align the large circle on his chest and pull the trigger. For longer distances align the the dot with the button at the V of his jacket and squeeze the trigger. Simple as dirt, no matter your favorite crayon flavor...
I agree with you. My Eotech has never done me wrong at any reasonable range.
Exactly. Loving my Holosun 510….and I usually avoid Chinesium gun accessories.
The MRO HD was my first choice but with a QD mount was going to run about $700.
I still might get the MRO but so far the Holosun is impressive.
For a rifle application, circle-dot for sure with a 2 MOA dot for most applications. That covers 4” at 200 yards, 6” at 300. At ranges beyond 300 yards, I want a scope.
I don’t know about pistol applications. The couple of times I shot a pistol with a red dot that was it - a big dot.
2MOA + My Astigmatism = 6MOA 🤣
That's why I like something like Sig's ROMEO5XDR, which can be toggled between a 2 MOA dot or have a 65 MOA circle dot reticle around that 2 MOA dot. Faster pick up, but a bit more pinpoint accuracy without blocking the target.
For super fast pistol draw and getting on target as fast as possible go large MOA. Keeping in mind center of mass and you are shooting combat distances.
I really like 2 MOA dot with a 60 MOA circle. Very easy to pick up and yet it allows precise aim in longer distances.
Currently, I'm in love with my newest one---cuz it's my newest one! It's a Holosun 507C X2 with the ACSS Vulcan reticle. The tip of the chevron is great for accuracy, the HUGE circle helps newbies as well as finding the chevron if shooting from an odd position, AND you can use the chevron to index size/distance of the target. Caleb, you're a Rock Star (although a Rock Star from circa 1955 with that pommade coif). I can't wait till you get on your Beatles kick.
That’s going to be my next red dot purchase. Extremely impressed with a Holosun 510c I purchased.
Yup, same here. I was slow to get on the Holosun train. Intially, I thought of them as a cheap, Chinese knock-off but boy, was I wrong. Holosun optics are nice. I have the 507C on two of my Glocks and recently picked up a 510C for a BCM build. Holosun has won me over!
I just got confirmation; “I’m pretty smart”, Kaleb says so, end of discussion. Thanks for the information, always a good thing.
Small MOA RDS can be brightened up to make bigger, but larger MOA can be dimmed down to make smaller. For me the 3M0A is the best all around, but the larger 8MOA is definitely a lot faster to pick up. Most pistol shot sill be under 50 yards at most, so you can't go wrong with a larger dot.
1 MOA with a circle or similar is my preferred sweet spot. ACSS reticles are also a great solution. 2 MOA is a close second for me. Your mileage may vary.
Thank you for the succinct explanation, Caleb!
I can normally hit a large garbage can 6 out of 8 times at around 2 yards with an empty Scotch bottle.
🤣 I, on the other hand, use an empty SC bottle... more accurate, IMHO...
A couple of visual examples would have been very helpful to go along with this video. 👍👍
Depends on your astigmatism 😢
It really depends what you're using it for.
Super helpful video Caleb! Folks are always asking what size dot to get, especially for micro red dots for pistols.
Nothing like a 2 MOA dot on a 10 MOA pistol to bolster one's delusions of precision.
Do aluminum barrel nuts belong on heavy use duty guns? That would be a good topic.
Good info! Keep them coming. Thanks
thats why i love the Holosun-reticle similar to EOtech but everyone can decide for himself if one needs just the point (2 MOA) or only the cirlce (65 MOA) or wants both for quick target aquisition and precision!
perfect for what we needed it for
My buddy and I go back and forth over dot size on pistols. He's younger and has perfect vision, and is more concerned with making one ragged hole on paper targets at distance than I am. I'm getting older and my eyes are not what they used to be so I see every advantage of a bigger dot for pistols (I have a 5 MOA SRO). Also, I'm more concerned with defensive use of the dot and quick target acquisition than making one ragged hole at distance.
I get it with what happened at the mall and that kid had to shoot from a distance of 40 yards a 1 MOA dot would be best, but I prefer to set my carry gun up for what is most likely to happen. Like living in California I have earthquake insurance, not flood insurance.
And I do regularly shoot my pistol out to 50 yards, 150 yards, and 250 yards, so I know the bigger cary dot isn't too big.
Increasing brightness on the smaller MOA dots will help to acquire faster in bright light settings, as stated already in the comments the Holosun, Sig and other sights with the 2 MOA dot and 65 MOA circle provide a good combination and is what I prefer. Thanks for the info.
Thanks for the info!
My favorite is the 7.5 moa leopuld delta point pro, tip top of triangle for precision shots, full triangle fast shot on a handgun
3 MOA is the sweet spot in most applications.
Thanks, Caleb. I needed that. No, really, I did. I was confused about the dot sizes.
Thank you for taking the time to explain about red dots, now I finally understand.
Nice red dot sight, Caleb Savant!
The best dot size is when you have tried and run them and find what is actually best for YOU. When I mean YOU it means depending on your comfort and how healthy your eyes are.
ACSS is the clear winner
3:03 Moment of silence for the southpaw shooters and no brass deflector.
I like the chevron, sir
Very very outstanding video young man. Great job. Thanks a lot friend. Keep up the good work. SC Navy vet.
I like a 5 best; I have one on a Ruger Mini-Thirty I sometimes use for deer hunting. It's perfect within the range capability of that gun as a hunting rifle. I do have a 3 on my AR-15, because it's co-witnessed with the Irons. I have no use for a red dot on a pistol.
Very good analysis. Thanks brother. God bless.
Cool clip of you shooting! I didn’t know you are left handed. I’d love videos on lefties managing shell ejection! Thanks! Leftie Lou
I want to order that bazooka with a red dot.
I have a 12.8moa on my rmr. I prefer that over the others
Good solid info. Thanks!
Prior to the cataracts ruining my vision, a 3 MOA dot was great. Then the vision went bad. Later, after cataract surgery in both eyes, my distance vision was perfect. I mean I could see with absolute clarity beyond four feet. However, I lost my close up vision and couldn't focus on the dot sight at all. Ended up shooting with iron sights on rifle, that somehow works ok. Wish I could use a dot sight, but it's not going to happen.
Sorry to hear that you are having vision problems but using a red dot sight should not require close-up focus. With a red dot, you focus on the target and the dot should still be clear because the dot appears to the eye as an object very far away.
@@sbreheny Yes sir, I was able to do that a couple years ago, but now anything up close is a blur. The dot appears like a big red floodlight covering the center of the sight. But the front sight is fine and the rear peep is blurred, but functional enough to shoot accurately.
Oddly enough, with a 4" or longer pistol the front sight is visible with arms extended. Yet a compact autoloader or snubnose revolver, the front sight is so blurred it's nearly invisible. The rear sight is fuzzy but usable for my shooting. At my age, everything has become a compromise to do most things I did with ease at an earlier age.
Awesome information thanks
Why compromise. An EOTECH or Holosun with the circle ⭕️ and the dot.
Recently got a Holosun 510 and it has been amazing. Let’s you choose ⭕️, 🔴 or ⭕️ with the 🔴 in the center .
The MRO HD also has this option.
My fellow astigmatism sufferer, i warmly recommend you to consider some toric contact lenses. I have compound myopic astigmatism, and with those lenses on i can enjoy my holosight with a cripsp, nonblurred dot.
Granted, it is not a happy time putting them on, and fishing after those pesky things once you are done with them, but you get used in the end, and the benefits are real. You get to really enjoy shooting wihout having to perch two pair of glasses on your nose, having to wear balistic glasses with an additional set of lenses, or to get actual prescription balistic glasses.
I've been waiting for a company to produce a red/green dot with a reastat controlled dot size. Not a switch that changes the dot to a different reticle but smooth rotation control that changes the size of the dot but keeps it centered on its fixed point of aim. It can be done speaking from an electronic tech of the way back side point of view.
That would be really cool, especaially on something like the Acro or 509T. Pistol red dots that people use on pdw's and shorter range rifles.
reastat=rheostat? The problem is not the control but how you would generate the dot with a varying size. In a typical red dot sight, the dot is generated by shining light through a reticle (a tiny etching on a piece of glass). The dot is not generated electronically. I think they switch dot sizes by turning on different LEDs or laser diodes to shine through different reticles. You would need to somehow change the reticle size or add optics which could magnify the projected image of the reticle. Certainly not impossible but far more complicated than a red dot with 2 or 3 fixed options.
@@sbreheny lasers can be tuned both thru power sourced and by the lens. Possibly by a motorized adjustable aperture In front of the diod. Not all light produced has to be projected on to the lens. It can reflected off. But I'm certainly no expert and I believe if we can think it then someone will find a way to make it work.
@@None-hq6ws well that I'm sure of. On the other side of the coin, that's what drives innovation and competition. Not to mention that it would be a big step above the rest and make a lot of the other obsolete once proven. And if next if it has onboard variable power like an lpvo but in a red dot package that would be excellent. All the optics out there now where too complicated in past time. Now we got scopes that range and aim for us and can connect to our phones. Just keeps getting better.
Caleb, I would like to hear your thoughts on red versus green dots.
I disagree that the larger dots are more better for pistol. If I could, I'd probably have a 1 MOA dot on my pistol. I see no difference between my ability to rapidly acquire a 6MOA dot and a 2MOA. However, when I'm making 100 yard shots with my pistol, I want that 2MOA. I do like multi-reticles like the holosun circle dots as the perfect happy medium. I also like the Trijicon RM08 12.9MOA triangle, because I can use the tip for precision shooting and the whole triangle for dot acquisition. IME complete washout often happens regardless of dot size when using a weapon light. Which is why I still advocate for a visible laser which, when using an optic, replaces your washed-out dot in your reticle.
What about red vs green dot sights?
Why choose one? I can just take off my glasses to turn a small into a large!
Do I take it, Caleb, that you don’t care for the Sig Romeo 7 ? (2 moa)
When I turn mine up past 7 or 8, it’s very easy to acquire outdoors. If the sun is really bright, I still have 3 or 4 levels available.
Enormous battery life and auto on/off have their virtues.
Using it on a PC Charger.
bah! Leave your _red_ dot behind...join the *GREEN DOT MASTER RACE* !! 🤣
like my pistol dot, when on the nightstand, it's 3moa but I keep it bright so light doesn't wash it out, and so it'll be easier to pick up if I need it during the night.
Can you do something like this but with scopes?
What's better red dot or green?
I got a Smyth busters question for ya.
"Does leaving your safe door open for extended periods of time damage the safe/door?"
👍🏻👍🏻
👍 thanks
Sorry to say, it was Informative but didn't help, i tried tried a Romeo5 on a shotgun but the line of sight is to high , wonder which model co-witness the iron sight.
I had a 6 MOA Sig Romeo Zero on my Canik...hated it. To me it would cover almost 10" plate @ 50 yards. Bought their 3 MOA version to replace and it was night a day improvement compared to the much larger dot.
A 6 moa dot is only 3" in size @ 50 yds unless you have the intensity turned up too high.
@@CountryBoy-zl4fh at any brightness. The problem is non perfect glass + non perfect vision (still 20/20 though) on a pistol red dot. They can call it 6 MOA but when it covers a majority of a 10" plate at 50 yards.....I disagree. Compared to some of my Sig red dots the pistol versions look like a completely different scale.
Plus the brightness is depending on ambient light conditions, I can't ask the sun to dim nor the bag guys to turn off the florescent lighting. Well I can ask, but probably won't help ;)
3:00 dat brass Bukkake doe. lol
I just go for a small dot, and if you want bigger, turn up the brightness and it'll bloom to a bigger size
i have a better idea. use etched 1x prism scopes or LVPOs. i don't ever want to rely on led dots functioning
Caleb says, Size does matter.
The firearm at the 3 minute mark you are shooting. Yours? Or, "a loaner for the video"?
What size dot do you recommend for steel challenge?
How about dot color??
The best dot is whatever makes you happy. Same with price😅
I'm thinking of my pistol dot 3 MOA as a mid, and my rifle dot 1-2 as small... but with either I can turn up the brightness and double the size as well as the quickness of picking up the dot, if need be or that's an issue.
What distance from the eye is that measurement made at?
I have astigmatism, so all my 2 MOA dots look like a 6 MOA bunch of grapes
Bigger the better !
What do you guys think a good red dot would be for a canted rifle red dot? On top of my spitfire X3
I have a question I am new to the guns so I don’t really know the specific names of the gun but my charging handle won’t fit the lil drop in thing where it falls into the lines,it don’t seem to fit idk whats wrong I have a charging handle that came wit my ar15 and bought a new a complete upper n tried putting my ar15 charging handle and it would not fit btw there both 556 but any help or maybe if u guys can answer I dought it but any gun people in the comments know what’s wrong ?
The best red dot size is the one that is not distorted because you [the viewer] refuse to admit that your vision is no longer perfect.
Solution: Etched reticles.
Stay classy my friends.
👍👍👍
Try a donut with a small dot. It changed my life.
Which rifle are you shooting on the video?
BRN-180S
Algorithm defeated
Why aim? Spray and pray!
If your dot goes down when you shoot, you might have dippin dot syndrome. Dippin dots used to be the future, but try to make it your past.
3:07 had an empty case land on your arm while shooting. I hope you made a wish before you flicked it off.
Ideally, dot size should equal field of view.
What do you mean by that
Smaller all around...I can make a small dot seem bigger by turning up the brightness....can't make a big dot smaller.
🤙👊💪🇺🇲
You need some tea honey and lemon dude
idk what that means...
@@CalebSavant your voice sounded a bit rough. Keep up the good content. Appreciated.
GG
Trijicon MRO 🤢🤢🤮
ugly as hell lmao
I commented
3.25 moa equals fast precise lethal.
Thanks for the info!