That’s the thing, though. MetroidVania is comparing two games at the very least - Metroid and Castlevania. What I think is the bigger issue is Roguelike as a genre which, really, isn’t a particularly good genre name since so many “roguelikes” these days have nothing to do with rogue. Still, it gets away with it since there’s only one “rogue” as a frame of reference when, in dandori’s case, there are 4+ Pikmin games that all play very differently from each other aside from the core mechanics
Personally I think the “dandori-lite” isn’t the most apt descriptor of all games in the broad genre, since the moment-by-moment micromanagement that the name implies is sometimes the first thing to go. What defined a Pikmin-like up to this point was the superficial element of being a guy followed by other guys. I would say something like “creature commander” would be more fitting, though it still risks confusion with the rts genre
I agree with you to an extent, but I think the "lite" part of dandori-lite implies that it's similar to Dandori games, but something is missing. Since this *usually* is the strategy element, as a strategy game missing out in the action or adventure is likely to just be a regular RTS or a turn based strategy game of some sort, it's still pretty consistent as meaning "dandori, but with less strategy and/or management"
I strongly agree, I'm so down with using Dandori as a genre category, but I feel like the way Dandori-lite is used here feels like kind of a cop out, and not really accurate- for one because, as you said, 'dandori' by definition means the efficient organization and management, and if that's usually the thing the Lite games lack, it's just not appropriate to call them that- but also, because I think the term totally fails to describe the games it would be used for in any way, since it doesn't tell you definitively what traits it has in common with dandori games. I also think "Creature Commander" (Actually I'd prefer "Squad Commander" since there's no reason they'd have to be creatures) seems like a fitting term for most of those games, though some, like Tokobot, doesn't even feel like it belongs in this conversation at all- from the clips in this video at least, it seems much more like a 3D puzzle platformer/adventure in which your player character happens to visually take the form of a squad, rather than a game in which you're indirectly commanding creatures to perform tasks. As someone who hasn't played any of these non-pikmin games, I wish I could speak to them with more confidence, but it's a little hard to imagine that none would belong in the Dandori genre at all- I fear that maybe you're being a bit too stringent with the boundaries of the genre, as any genre will naturally have a lot of variance between how some of its entries play, but as I said, without having played them I can't truly comment on the matter. IMO, any game in which you control a character and command many units to perform tasks that places value on organizing and performing tasks efficiently could be considered a Dandori game, and things like the treasure collection aspect can be a uniquely pikmin trait. That said, I have not personally played any other games that fit that descriptor, so maybe Pikmin is still alone for now! All that aside, very enjoyable video, and your game project looks very promising!
Which is a REALLY specific genre. I was using Real Time Strategy Action Adventure for a while, but I think that dandori sums it up really well in one word
Food for thought: Are games like "Cook, Serve, Delicous!", Overcooked 1+ 2", and "Dinner Dash" "Dandori" games? They both emphasize time and resource management in a similar way to Pikmin even if they lack the commander and troops sthick people tend to associate with these games. Time - management is also a phrased commonly used to link those games together and that'd basically be the English translation of the phrase "dandori". I know its a weird suggestion since those games have a very different vibe from anything discussed in the video but the actual flow state of those games does feel very similar to a Pikmin 2, 3, or 4 challenge map.
I'm glad you see me as someone big, haha, I'm honored. But seriously, I think this distinction is super helpful. While I've heard a handful of other terms thrown out (you can find some of them in this comment section) I think these two terms conform much better to describing gameplay that follows in the tradition of Pikmin than any other that I've seen
It took me a few watches to get it, but now I agree completely. Dandori is a very apt description of what I love from Pikmin games and the experience that I seek in other similar games. Dandori to me is the emphases on making the most of each of my units to accomplish multiple tasks at once and efficiently. I truly think this is at the heart of the Pikmin experience. I think that many of the criticisms of the weaker aspects of the Pikmin games stem from this. If enemies are too easy to defeat, every action and every pikmin less important to your success. If the caves feel too frustrating or boring it may be because the player feels their individual actions or choices don't matter, their Dandori isn't being tested, only their patiece. An interesting case is the charge mechanic that replaced swarm. Charging your pikmin onto enemies to quickly overwhelmed them or at tasks to swiftly accomplish them with sheer numbers can feel awesome, but for some it also took away the feeling that every Pikmin under your command had a part to play. People have said that swarming felt more personal, and that you had control over each individual pikmin. That may be because you really did have finer control over your group, and despite charging being more efficient some people perfered the feeling of manuvering individual units rather than commanding a unified group. I think where Pikmin 2 and Pikmin 4 succeed is in giving the player the sense that they are taking control and carving out their own place in a world that is out to get them. By collecting treasure, clearing caves, and defeating enemies the game empowers the feeling of domination and accumulation of success. Where Pikmin 1 and 3 succeed is in giving the player sense of alienation and slowly achieving belonging and understanding of the world around them and their place in it. By collecting the objects you need, clearing the path for safer and more efficient travel, and always keeping an eye on the clock the game creates the feeling of duty to accomplish your goals and satisfaction when you are efficient with resources.
For a while, even though DOOM itself was basically an expanded iteration of Wolfenstein 3D, first person shooters were all called "DOOM clones", any game with a large explorable hub world to tackle missions in your own chosen order was called a "GTA Clone", and of course there's the classic label of "Rogue-Like" for games that copied the permadeath and randomized level layout elements of one specific computer pseudo-D&D simulator. I think the same is going to happen with Pikmin, which would've had more imitators sooner if it wasn't such a slow-burn of a niche thing to like.
And the thing is, Doom Clone was an unproductive label too - First Person Shooter is much healthier for the genre! And Roguelike is an odd one because most roguelikes have nothing to do with rogue outside of randomization and permadeath. Pikmin gets the label right now because it’s roughly sui generis, but as the genre develops I also expect the Dandori name to catch on more as things expand out from Pikmin and start taking influence from other Dandori titles
This was a really great video. It's something I hadn't thought about until now, but it does seem like games categorized as "Pikmin-like" do tend to get some hate for not being enough like Pikmin. I think people hear "Pikmin-like" and get the idea that said game is going to be like Pikmin is almost every way, which only leads to disappointment, so it's a good call to come up with some new terms that hopefully prevent unreasonable expectations from being set in the future. P.S. That diagram at the end is awesome
had not watched pikmin in a while then all of a sudden i get a lil notification and i’m back to watching pikmin! ( i’ve watched you before 1k so i’m glad this brought me back to pikmin)
I think this is a very good point - the sim strategy bit is definitely a huge element of dandori as a genre, and I would wager it stems from the god game part of the genre's origins But yeah, whatever we call it, I'm just glad we can all love these games
Juste realized that Pikmin is a collectathon! Which explains why I love pikmin games so much :D Anyway, nice video buddy! Gotta say that I'm not 100% convinced by these genre names attemps but as you said we need to find a way to describe these kind of games!
I suppose that if I were to make a Dandori game, I probably wouldn't have much of a pitch for it aside from making the generic units mice and scaling up the environments a little from the more ant-like stuff that seems to be typical, and add a lot more platforming elements with your "captains" being rats and thus even more agile as well as justifying their clearly higher intelligence. Part of this is also because I have an existing stable of like 30 mouse and rat OCs to pull from and have always loved adventures at mouse scale.
I absolutely love this! It’s such a good idea for it, swarming with the rat pack and all that! One of the best pitches narratively for this kind of game I’ve seen!
I've had an idea for a wave based Base-Defense Bullethell Roguelike that has elements similar to Voidigo, Don't Starve, Risk of Rain, and Feature Dandori-esque management of little goobers that automate gathering and fight for you, just ideas though lmao, I haven't prototyped it. I've already specced into a lane-RTS I'd want to do that prior.
watching this gave me some inspiration for a dandori game. my initial idea is managing a squad of fantasy soldiers through a battle field, maybe you could get more troops by helping out local villages. definatly need more time to cook but i have hopes for it
I think there's a really solid way to make this work, especially if it borrows ideas from Little King's Story (as mentioned in the comment above me) and also maybe Warcraft 3!
In this same vien, I'd suggest putting the games "Kingdom" to the Dondori genre list. It's a sidescrolling game where you, the noble, move around, collect taxes, and give out the money to build up resources and defenses.
I was right this way hype! I agree ive played some Dandori games before and my favorite is the Wild at heart, personally i found it really charming and it stands completely alone as a game for its uniqueness and absolutely gorgeous art style
I think the labels that fit Pikmin best are: Dandori Action Collectathon, or DAC. But to simplify it you can just call it a Dandori game, and Dandorilite is perfect!
Just found this planet and also learned of the Distant Planet. So this game is still in development? Any updates you can show? Seems like the last updates are ~2 years old now. I'm very interested in the progression of the game!
I mostly just say it's a RTS collectathon, because the goal of the game is to collect items and the gameplay uses time to force you to strategize (as opposed to a turn based strategy game where you aren't limited by time). You have a limited amount of time to spend each day working on collecting as many items as possible. An RTS collectathon...
I’ve been calling the genre action-RTS, but as you say, other games with the dude controlling dudes formula being written off as “Pikminlikes” can be really reductive when those games aren’t trying to be Pikmin. Little King’s Story’s development started as a city builder and ended up much closer to a Zelda-like adventure game, and Tinykin is a platformer for Pete’s sake. They’ve got their own goals and it’s unfair to dismiss them based on superficial mechanics
Yes exactly! If nothing else, I think this is the most important thing to get at from this discussion - it's not the fault of these games that we don't have enough dandori games, but also, I'd love to see more dandori games!
Nah - it’s a completely independent IP, so they’d have no legal ground to do that. You can’t copyright a whole game genre (see how similar most shooters are to each other) and our game is 2D rather than 3D anyway
I propose a different label for non-core pikminlike games since "Dandori-lite" is a bit....odd and still feels like calling something a "pikminlike" because of the words popularization origin. I'd best describe the main gameplay aspect as "Hoard Swarmer" and I'd say that words perfectly as a genre tag for these games; taking control of a hoard of people, pikmin, creatures, etc. and swarming them around enemies or whatever else you may have to.
I think that works as well, though hoard swarmer would apply to the Pikmin games as well. Would the Pikmin games be Strategy Hoard Swarmers? And what of the Dandori-lites that don't have swarming, for example Tokobot
@@VantageEmblem I've never seen Tokobot before today, but the quick looks at the gameplay you showed and some images, it seems more just like a platformer where you have the help of some little dudes, and I don't think every "little dudes" game should be thrown into the genre. And yeah, Pikmin would also be a "Hoard Swarmer" but that's why games can be in multiple genres. Hoard Swarmer would be the control descriptor, meanwhile Dandori would be the gameplay descriptor, or something along those lines
At that point, I'd argue that Dandori is interchangeable with strategy, specifically real time strategy, which would mean pikmin is a "real time strategy hoard swarmer" Something doesn't sit right about that though, as hoard swarmer is really simplistic and doesn't really capture get a lot of the elements that make a dandori game a dandori game. There are non-dandori hoard swarmers, and there are non-hoard dandori games too @@KazLordOfLightWarriors
There’s a trailer on the channel from a long time ago, but it’s really outdated. I recommend hanging tight for more information on that in the future heh
Pikmin is an RTS with action adventure elements, so why don't we just use the term "Action RTS"? i think that label fits most of these other games pretty well too
My problem with that label is that "action" itself is a pretty non-descriptive label. There's a lot of action in Real Time Strategy games as is (see starcraft). That said, Adventure/RTS I could see being a better fit for that reason, and I think I could be convinced about that
Agree with a lot of what was said. I just don't like the name "dandori-lite" (first, focus on the "lite" part). Lite is an awful word sound wise (imagine a non-native English speaker): it has many similar words, such as "like" and "light" (these words are much more common than "lite" to a non-native speaker -- I've spent a long time thinking that "rogue-like" and "rogue-lite" were the same, because they sound the same). I'm not sure what would be better to put there. I like "pikmin-like". Because it is kinda what people are already using for. And my first thought is "Look! There is a bunch of pikmin following me". If I understood well, you don't like "pikmin-like" because these games don't quite capture the essence of pikmin. I don't think that's a problem. See, there are 2 kinds of "rogue-like" ("rogue-lite" not included): [a] games like rogue (turn-based dungeon crawlers); [b] games with permadeath and randomized world generation. There exist an argument to say that the essence of rogue is in [a], but the most common for people to remember is something like [b]. Also, focus on the games you call "dandori-lite". They are more focused on on dandori or lots of pikmin following me? Maybe "dandori" should not be in the name.
It always bothered me that tinykin is called a pikmin like,its just a 3d platformer with tiny guys as the gimmick, i want more games like pikmin in my life. Just downloaded The Wild at Heart, maybe this one?
I think retaining Pikmin in the label is still confusing, though I expect it to stick around. Dandori-like works, but I think it's capturing the wrong elements compared to dandori-lite (since most of these pesudo-dandori games lack in the strategy department specifically)
![BOWKYLION - วิงวอน (ex-change) [Official MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/cLdnZWDaO-w/mqdefault.jpg)
“Comparing pikmin to itself doesn’t really say much”
The MetroidVania genre chilling in the corner:
Consider that if it wasn't for Symphony of the Night, this subgenre of platformer would probably just be called "Metroid Clone" or "Metroidlike"
That’s the thing, though. MetroidVania is comparing two games at the very least - Metroid and Castlevania. What I think is the bigger issue is Roguelike as a genre which, really, isn’t a particularly good genre name since so many “roguelikes” these days have nothing to do with rogue. Still, it gets away with it since there’s only one “rogue” as a frame of reference when, in dandori’s case, there are 4+ Pikmin games that all play very differently from each other aside from the core mechanics
Personally I think the “dandori-lite” isn’t the most apt descriptor of all games in the broad genre, since the moment-by-moment micromanagement that the name implies is sometimes the first thing to go. What defined a Pikmin-like up to this point was the superficial element of being a guy followed by other guys. I would say something like “creature commander” would be more fitting, though it still risks confusion with the rts genre
I agree with you to an extent, but I think the "lite" part of dandori-lite implies that it's similar to Dandori games, but something is missing. Since this *usually* is the strategy element, as a strategy game missing out in the action or adventure is likely to just be a regular RTS or a turn based strategy game of some sort, it's still pretty consistent as meaning "dandori, but with less strategy and/or management"
*Laughs in Overlord*
*cries happily at pissing goblin*
I strongly agree, I'm so down with using Dandori as a genre category, but I feel like the way Dandori-lite is used here feels like kind of a cop out, and not really accurate- for one because, as you said, 'dandori' by definition means the efficient organization and management, and if that's usually the thing the Lite games lack, it's just not appropriate to call them that- but also, because I think the term totally fails to describe the games it would be used for in any way, since it doesn't tell you definitively what traits it has in common with dandori games.
I also think "Creature Commander" (Actually I'd prefer "Squad Commander" since there's no reason they'd have to be creatures) seems like a fitting term for most of those games, though some, like Tokobot, doesn't even feel like it belongs in this conversation at all- from the clips in this video at least, it seems much more like a 3D puzzle platformer/adventure in which your player character happens to visually take the form of a squad, rather than a game in which you're indirectly commanding creatures to perform tasks.
As someone who hasn't played any of these non-pikmin games, I wish I could speak to them with more confidence, but it's a little hard to imagine that none would belong in the Dandori genre at all- I fear that maybe you're being a bit too stringent with the boundaries of the genre, as any genre will naturally have a lot of variance between how some of its entries play, but as I said, without having played them I can't truly comment on the matter. IMO, any game in which you control a character and command many units to perform tasks that places value on organizing and performing tasks efficiently could be considered a Dandori game, and things like the treasure collection aspect can be a uniquely pikmin trait. That said, I have not personally played any other games that fit that descriptor, so maybe Pikmin is still alone for now!
All that aside, very enjoyable video, and your game project looks very promising!
it’s a series where the third game makes people over enthusiastic at the produce section in grocery stores 😂 (me)
TRUE I have a fruit juice obsession now cause of that game hahaha
Pikmin is like a squad commander puzzle game with lite rts elements I'd say and item collection
Which is a REALLY specific genre. I was using Real Time Strategy Action Adventure for a while, but I think that dandori sums it up really well in one word
platoon manager?
Food for thought: Are games like "Cook, Serve, Delicous!", Overcooked 1+ 2", and "Dinner Dash" "Dandori" games? They both emphasize time and resource management in a similar way to Pikmin even if they lack the commander and troops sthick people tend to associate with these games. Time - management is also a phrased commonly used to link those games together and that'd basically be the English translation of the phrase "dandori". I know its a weird suggestion since those games have a very different vibe from anything discussed in the video but the actual flow state of those games does feel very similar to a Pikmin 2, 3, or 4 challenge map.
Im so glad someone big is talking about describing games like Pikmin as Dandori and Dandori-lite games since it just fits so perfectly!
I'm glad you see me as someone big, haha, I'm honored. But seriously, I think this distinction is super helpful. While I've heard a handful of other terms thrown out (you can find some of them in this comment section) I think these two terms conform much better to describing gameplay that follows in the tradition of Pikmin than any other that I've seen
I agree absolutely!@@VantageEmblem
Is Kirby Mass Attack a Dandori-Lite game?
I don't know, the control is more of "god aspect", plus there's no multi tasking.
I didn’t know there was a scrapped DS pikmin game
It took me a few watches to get it, but now I agree completely. Dandori is a very apt description of what I love from Pikmin games and the experience that I seek in other similar games.
Dandori to me is the emphases on making the most of each of my units to accomplish multiple tasks at once and efficiently. I truly think this is at the heart of the Pikmin experience.
I think that many of the criticisms of the weaker aspects of the Pikmin games stem from this.
If enemies are too easy to defeat, every action and every pikmin less important to your success.
If the caves feel too frustrating or boring it may be because the player feels their individual actions or choices don't matter, their Dandori isn't being tested, only their patiece.
An interesting case is the charge mechanic that replaced swarm. Charging your pikmin onto enemies to quickly overwhelmed them or at tasks to swiftly accomplish them with sheer numbers can feel awesome, but for some it also took away the feeling that every Pikmin under your command had a part to play. People have said that swarming felt more personal, and that you had control over each individual pikmin. That may be because you really did have finer control over your group, and despite charging being more efficient some people perfered the feeling of manuvering individual units rather than commanding a unified group.
I think where Pikmin 2 and Pikmin 4 succeed is in giving the player the sense that they are taking control and carving out their own place in a world that is out to get them. By collecting treasure, clearing caves, and defeating enemies the game empowers the feeling of domination and accumulation of success.
Where Pikmin 1 and 3 succeed is in giving the player sense of alienation and slowly achieving belonging and understanding of the world around them and their place in it. By collecting the objects you need, clearing the path for safer and more efficient travel, and always keeping an eye on the clock the game creates the feeling of duty to accomplish your goals and satisfaction when you are efficient with resources.
For a while, even though DOOM itself was basically an expanded iteration of Wolfenstein 3D, first person shooters were all called "DOOM clones", any game with a large explorable hub world to tackle missions in your own chosen order was called a "GTA Clone", and of course there's the classic label of "Rogue-Like" for games that copied the permadeath and randomized level layout elements of one specific computer pseudo-D&D simulator. I think the same is going to happen with Pikmin, which would've had more imitators sooner if it wasn't such a slow-burn of a niche thing to like.
And the thing is, Doom Clone was an unproductive label too - First Person Shooter is much healthier for the genre! And Roguelike is an odd one because most roguelikes have nothing to do with rogue outside of randomization and permadeath. Pikmin gets the label right now because it’s roughly sui generis, but as the genre develops I also expect the Dandori name to catch on more as things expand out from Pikmin and start taking influence from other Dandori titles
This was a really great video. It's something I hadn't thought about until now, but it does seem like games categorized as "Pikmin-like" do tend to get some hate for not being enough like Pikmin. I think people hear "Pikmin-like" and get the idea that said game is going to be like Pikmin is almost every way, which only leads to disappointment, so it's a good call to come up with some new terms that hopefully prevent unreasonable expectations from being set in the future.
P.S. That diagram at the end is awesome
I'm so glad you like the diagram! Putting that together was probably the most fun part of this project for me
had not watched pikmin in a while then all of a sudden i get a lil notification and i’m back to watching pikmin! ( i’ve watched you before 1k so i’m glad this brought me back to pikmin)
Woohoo! I'm so hype to hear that I've pulled you back into the fold! Thank you for being awesome :)
I think it’s sim strategy and dandori. Regardless of what genre it is, I’m glad we can all love Pikmin for what it is.
I think this is a very good point - the sim strategy bit is definitely a huge element of dandori as a genre, and I would wager it stems from the god game part of the genre's origins
But yeah, whatever we call it, I'm just glad we can all love these games
Juste realized that Pikmin is a collectathon! Which explains why I love pikmin games so much :D
Anyway, nice video buddy! Gotta say that I'm not 100% convinced by these genre names attemps but as you said we need to find a way to describe these kind of games!
I suppose that if I were to make a Dandori game, I probably wouldn't have much of a pitch for it aside from making the generic units mice and scaling up the environments a little from the more ant-like stuff that seems to be typical, and add a lot more platforming elements with your "captains" being rats and thus even more agile as well as justifying their clearly higher intelligence. Part of this is also because I have an existing stable of like 30 mouse and rat OCs to pull from and have always loved adventures at mouse scale.
I absolutely love this! It’s such a good idea for it, swarming with the rat pack and all that! One of the best pitches narratively for this kind of game I’ve seen!
I've had an idea for a wave based Base-Defense Bullethell Roguelike that has elements similar to Voidigo, Don't Starve, Risk of Rain, and Feature Dandori-esque management of little goobers that automate gathering and fight for you, just ideas though lmao, I haven't prototyped it. I've already specced into a lane-RTS I'd want to do that prior.
watching this gave me some inspiration for a dandori game. my initial idea is managing a squad of fantasy soldiers through a battle field, maybe you could get more troops by helping out local villages. definatly need more time to cook but i have hopes for it
I’d highly recommend you check out Little King’s Story
I think there's a really solid way to make this work, especially if it borrows ideas from Little King's Story (as mentioned in the comment above me) and also maybe Warcraft 3!
In this same vien, I'd suggest putting the games "Kingdom" to the Dondori genre list. It's a sidescrolling game where you, the noble, move around, collect taxes, and give out the money to build up resources and defenses.
Dandori-lite is a AMAZING Genre Name. I hope this gets Coined as the official title. #DandoriLite
Dandori-lite makes a lot of sense to me, and it stems from other distinctions like Roguelikes vs Roguelites! But we'll see if it sticks...
Not directly related but Little King's Story is an absolutely amazing game and I will never miss an opportunity to recommend it.
I love that game so much! It's genuinely so so good!
I was right this way hype! I agree ive played some Dandori games before and my favorite is the Wild at heart, personally i found it really charming and it stands completely alone as a game for its uniqueness and absolutely gorgeous art style
I think the labels that fit Pikmin best are: Dandori Action Collectathon, or DAC. But to simplify it you can just call it a Dandori game, and Dandorilite is perfect!
Pikmin is its own genre. :)
Im curious how if you'd categorize the labors of Hercules games in here and other similar logistic task management games.
well, that's ideal.
Just found this planet and also learned of the Distant Planet. So this game is still in development? Any updates you can show? Seems like the last updates are ~2 years old now. I'm very interested in the progression of the game!
The distant planet is still in development and I hope to have a new trailer available some point soon 😁
I mostly just say it's a RTS collectathon, because the goal of the game is to collect items and the gameplay uses time to force you to strategize (as opposed to a turn based strategy game where you aren't limited by time).
You have a limited amount of time to spend each day working on collecting as many items as possible. An RTS collectathon...
That’s nothing like how some of these other “Pikminlike” games operate though. They don’t all have you collecting things
@@DeadweightLKS RTS collectathon-lite
@@DeadweightLKS who cares what other games are doing, pikmin is a collectathon…
Squad based RTS.
I actually really like this idea. calling it a pikmin like is such a dandori issue
Why not squad management istead of dandori-lite
I mean, you manage, a squad, it speak's for itself
intriguing.
What did you think? Would you use those terms?
I’ve been calling the genre action-RTS, but as you say, other games with the dude controlling dudes formula being written off as “Pikminlikes” can be really reductive when those games aren’t trying to be Pikmin. Little King’s Story’s development started as a city builder and ended up much closer to a Zelda-like adventure game, and Tinykin is a platformer for Pete’s sake. They’ve got their own goals and it’s unfair to dismiss them based on superficial mechanics
Yes exactly! If nothing else, I think this is the most important thing to get at from this discussion - it's not the fault of these games that we don't have enough dandori games, but also, I'd love to see more dandori games!
Dandori is the perfect name for a Genre
I think it's a perfect description for the precise genre of game that Pikmin is! (And, personally, I think it's what the developers intended)
Sounds like an essay
It is a video essay by design! I hope that's okay!
cannot wait for nintendo to send a cease and desist on this guy’s game
Nah - it’s a completely independent IP, so they’d have no legal ground to do that. You can’t copyright a whole game genre (see how similar most shooters are to each other) and our game is 2D rather than 3D anyway
This is so Pikminy
Bet bet
very interesting subject!
Is lobotomy corporation dandori?
I think Patapon also have its own style being pikminy at the same time. Idk, what do you think?
Stopping people from saying first
Now they are second or less, excellent work
Its an RTSVania change my mind
I can really get behind this label honestly
I propose a different label for non-core pikminlike games since "Dandori-lite" is a bit....odd and still feels like calling something a "pikminlike" because of the words popularization origin. I'd best describe the main gameplay aspect as "Hoard Swarmer" and I'd say that words perfectly as a genre tag for these games; taking control of a hoard of people, pikmin, creatures, etc. and swarming them around enemies or whatever else you may have to.
I think that works as well, though hoard swarmer would apply to the Pikmin games as well. Would the Pikmin games be Strategy Hoard Swarmers? And what of the Dandori-lites that don't have swarming, for example Tokobot
@@VantageEmblem I've never seen Tokobot before today, but the quick looks at the gameplay you showed and some images, it seems more just like a platformer where you have the help of some little dudes, and I don't think every "little dudes" game should be thrown into the genre. And yeah, Pikmin would also be a "Hoard Swarmer" but that's why games can be in multiple genres. Hoard Swarmer would be the control descriptor, meanwhile Dandori would be the gameplay descriptor, or something along those lines
At that point, I'd argue that Dandori is interchangeable with strategy, specifically real time strategy, which would mean pikmin is a "real time strategy hoard swarmer"
Something doesn't sit right about that though, as hoard swarmer is really simplistic and doesn't really capture get a lot of the elements that make a dandori game a dandori game. There are non-dandori hoard swarmers, and there are non-hoard dandori games too
@@KazLordOfLightWarriors
HI VANTAGE
HELLO!
When will you live stream again
Where can we find your game ? and is there a way to play it (even a demo) right now ?
There’s a trailer on the channel from a long time ago, but it’s really outdated. I recommend hanging tight for more information on that in the future heh
@@VantageEmblem thanks you !
oatchi
Nintendo has a habit of creating genres don't they?
Absolutely they do
Mostly unintentionally than anything.
Just look at Smash Bros.
Pikmin is an RTS with action adventure elements, so why don't we just use the term "Action RTS"? i think that label fits most of these other games pretty well too
My problem with that label is that "action" itself is a pretty non-descriptive label. There's a lot of action in Real Time Strategy games as is (see starcraft). That said, Adventure/RTS I could see being a better fit for that reason, and I think I could be convinced about that
Agree with a lot of what was said. I just don't like the name "dandori-lite" (first, focus on the "lite" part). Lite is an awful word sound wise (imagine a non-native English speaker): it has many similar words, such as "like" and "light" (these words are much more common than "lite" to a non-native speaker -- I've spent a long time thinking that "rogue-like" and "rogue-lite" were the same, because they sound the same).
I'm not sure what would be better to put there. I like "pikmin-like". Because it is kinda what people are already using for. And my first thought is "Look! There is a bunch of pikmin following me".
If I understood well, you don't like "pikmin-like" because these games don't quite capture the essence of pikmin. I don't think that's a problem. See, there are 2 kinds of "rogue-like" ("rogue-lite" not included): [a] games like rogue (turn-based dungeon crawlers); [b] games with permadeath and randomized world generation. There exist an argument to say that the essence of rogue is in [a], but the most common for people to remember is something like [b].
Also, focus on the games you call "dandori-lite". They are more focused on on dandori or lots of pikmin following me? Maybe "dandori" should not be in the name.
Pikmin is pikmin
Pikminy
That word was the result of a last minute change to the thumbnail, but I kinda love it
It always bothered me that tinykin is called a pikmin like,its just a 3d platformer with tiny guys as the gimmick, i want more games like pikmin in my life.
Just downloaded The Wild at Heart, maybe this one?
1h ago
1 hr and 4 weeks ago.
350th like, 88th comment
At this point we should call that genre "Pikmin-like" or "Dandori-like".
I think retaining Pikmin in the label is still confusing, though I expect it to stick around. Dandori-like works, but I think it's capturing the wrong elements compared to dandori-lite (since most of these pesudo-dandori games lack in the strategy department specifically)
@@VantageEmblem yeah