It certainly was a task to find the best recording of this, musically and sonically. Boulez and the NY Phil in 1972! This is a work that needs big dynamics, especially the crescendos! I just knew you would come through for me, Dave!
The chase music was one of THE pieces that turned me on to classical music when I was a kid. I grew up in Cincinnati, and in grade school they would occasionally bus us downtown to hear the CSO (under, if I recall correctly, Erich Kunzel). On one of these jaunts (3rd grade? 4th grade? I dunno) the CSO played the savage 'chase' from The Miraculous Mandarin, and I came home raving to my Mom all about this Bela Bartok person. I had never heard anything that 'wild' before.
"Music At First Hearing" was a syndicated radio program back in the 60s and 70s where music critics often compared good, bad and ugly recordings of the same work. Does anyone else remember it?
I love your love of the lascivious! A best presentation EVER! Thanks for the rup-roaring fugue from Schwartz! Didn’t even know about the complete ballet versions with organ and chorus!
What a wonderful tangerine it is! The Miraculous Mandarin is another video I was eagerly awaiting - it’s my favorite single Bartok composition. The Naxos/Schwartz recording is an outstanding recent performance as the clips ably demonstrate. Lots of spine and verve to keep things moving boisterously as they should. Boulez with the New York Phil is my absolute favorite; the ensemble and the conductor sympathize with the work in a perfectly exciting way. The other Boulez is great too, although I think Ivan Fischer is my #2. I’ll have to give Slatkin/St. Louis a listen. Thanks for the survey Dave!
I love the Dorati Mercury recording - and also the Schoenberg/Berg/Webern "X number of Pieces for Orchestra" recording he made about the same time. Those recordings absolutely set the standard for playing this music. I heard Schwartz do Mandarin live in Prague with the Czech Philharmonic a few years back. That was amazing. They don't play Bartok all that often - they let their neighbours in Budapest have all the fun. But Schwartz kicked their butts, and they played the snot out of it. It was electrifying.
The Dorati Decca version has a superb organ entry in the opening movement. Worth hearing at least once as the overall effect is superb (your neighbours may disagree...).
Your videos can be as interesting for their sidebars as for their subject matter. You're so right about recording and context. What soulds spectacular on one system is lifeless on another, and a performance that tries your patience at one time soothes or inspires at another. Your Seattle excerpts caught my attention. I'm not entirely happy with either of my versions, an old Turnabout with Reinhardt and the SWDR orchestra, and the Abbado, the former poorly recorded, the latter blurring much of the detail.
I bought the Chailly recording thanks to your advice. Electric performance!! I love everything on this disc. The Boulez NYP is still a personal favourite for its ferocity but the sound quality of this Chailly recording is amazing. The Concerto for Orch sounds divine!!
"The delights of citrus fruit," HAHAHAHAHAHA! You're in rare form! Years ago I was knocked flat by the Martinon/Chicago Symphony Mandarin recording, wondering how I would respond today; do you know it? Your choices here, as always, are spot on.
Abbado is probably my go-to for this one. All of my friends flee when I put on any of the dozen or so recordings I own. A good way to clear out unwanted guests who've overstayed their welcome. The recording is terrifyingly dynamic and blisteringly fast. Schwarz is great, as well as both with Boulez. I really need to get Chailly's and Dohnayni's.
Great discussion of a miraculous work! My favorite is Ivan Fischer’s, but I also have Abbado/LSO and Boulez/Chicago and really like them, too. I had Dorati/Detroit on cassette and remember how great it sounded. Finally, I have the Welser-Most for the same reason you do-that fantastic Britten Prince of the Pagodas with Oliver Knussen! BTW: after your latest Marriner talk I ordered the Honegger set with the CzechPhil/Baudo. Thanks for that and for your Fanfare Hall of Fame review!
I struggled a long time with the Mandarin, but now that I got a bit older I really believe it's one of Bartók's masterworks... I grew up with Solti, which I still appreciate. But the ones you refer to easily outmatch him. I'm always a fan of Chailly in this music. He always adds a lyrical quality to the music, however visceral it may be. And of course I really plead for a Dohnanyi box...
Fischer's one is love at first listen: such a pristine sonic quality! it's like having the Budapest Orchestra in your livingroom. Absolutely gorgeous, like the "Concerto" on the same disc. My personal "sleeper" in Bartok's repertoire. Thanks David!
About that original ending to the Concerto for Orchestra - it reminds me of the disappointing original ending to the Enigma Variations. Once you've heard the ending where the composer pulls out all the stops, nothing else will do. About the original ending to the Bartok Violin Concerto #2 - that's a bit of a different case. Bartok ended the concerto with a fabulous orchestral coda, but the soloist for the premiere whined that he wanted to play right up to the end. So Bartok discarded the coda and rewrote the ending with a conventional flourish for the soloist. Christian Tetzlaff and Michael Gielen recorded the original ending. It's ferocious.
One of my favorite pieces. I actually got to see the three Bartok stage works in one evening back in '81 at English National Opera/Sadler's Wells - a one-of-a-kind experience. I don't know that Dohnanyi performance/2fer at all, so immediately ordering it. I have loved the Boulez NYPhil recording forever - it was my introduction to the piece, and it seriously imprinted. Dutton Vocalion has been doing wonderful remasterings of certain Boulez recordings (and other 70s CBS surround-sound recordings, plus the RCA classic film series) on dual-layer CD/SACD, and they couple Mandarin with Boulez's excellent Concerto for orchestra. Really worth getting, proving yet again that the main problem with all those sonically-challenged CBS records wasn't the master recordings, it was the terrible vinyl pressings.
"Ba Ba Baa - Ba Ba Ba ... Blah!" That summed up my opinion of Bartok until I saw your video. I always considered him as too "weird" for my tastes. But when I listened to your samples, Stravinsky's "Rite of Spring" immediately came to mind (which I love). I really enjoyed "The Miraculous Mandarin", much to my surprise. I tend to shy away from "modern composers" (though I love Sibelius, Strauss, Honegger, etc.). I have a new appreciation for Bartok thanks to you (I won't dismiss a composer based on trying to listen to one piece once). Now I can compare which versions of Bartok's composition I prefer (like I did with Honegger). Cheers!
"Every morning with my tea" is mind blowing. But now I can see another Hurwitz series or more, "music to start your day," " music to not start your day, "or "music for the deaf."
Penderecki "Polymorphia" absolutely has to be recommended for that epic morning series. c. 12.5 minutes of quasi-random typical "It came from Darmstadt!" bloop-blop-squeak, followed by the most incongruous C-major finale chord in existence...
My old school orchestra played this In the gardens of Walton's home in Ischia. Sir William was on the front row and after a few bars he said rather loudly "I can't stand bloody Bartok". I agree with you about The Prince of the Pagodas. Britten's own stereo recording from 1957 is available in very good transfers in one of those cheap 10 CD boxes that you have been reviewing recently. It also includes the composer's 1958 Decca recording of Peter Grimes. Title: Britten 100 the birthday celebration.
I remember hearing Boulez' second Cleveland recording of The Rite of Spring and bring startled by the tempo for the Danse Sacrale. Why was it so measured? And then I realised it was to make the harmonies clear - so that the music became even more creepy and oppressive through the weight and strangeness of those endlessly repeated harmonies. You get used to hearing just a furious noise in the Danse Sacrale but here is a case, as you point out, of a slower tempo enhancing the effect of the music rather than muting it.
Hi Dave, would you do a video on Enescu ? (way beyond the Rumanian Rhapsody!) What about Szymanowski? I'd be really interested to know your thoughts on these two great composers.
That chase passage done by the Seattle Symphony is scary as hell. wow, just WOW LOVE his hilarious critique of the things either Bartok, or a given orchestra, don't do well. He's such a good critic that he makes me want to hear the bad versions just to enjoy how mediocre they are, like a film critic who tells you a movie is such an awful turkey, that you are compelled rush out to enjoy that train-wreck as pure camp farce, with plenty of popcorn. (Not a bad way to learn how to be a discerning listener. )
Another cultural link, like that of your opera patron: in Terry Southern and Mason Hoffenberg cult novel "Candy" (1958), Bartok 's MM is sweet innocent heroine Candy's favorite LP, and as she plays the record in the morning the narrator describes its gruesome plot.
And here's quite a sleeper: the Melbourne Symphony with Hiroyuki Iwaki conducting. I bought it for Stravinsky's Agon, and was pleasantly surprised and knocked over by the Mandarin as well--the only one other than Boulez/New York that gets the knee-to-the-groin gutsiness of this music. Coupled with a great Concerto for Orchestra, and a damn good Stravinsky Petroushka as well. Go for it.
I've got the Mercury Dorati and the Fischer of the complete ballet as well as number of versions of the suite. It's certainly an extraordinary (sic) work.
Whilst comparisons are invidious I think MM is as significant a ballet as The Rite of Spring - in fact it could be titled the The Rite of Urban Decay! Completely agree about the chase not being done too fast (I think there's trombone glissandos in there, correct me if I'm wrong, which really need to register) - got to know the work through Dorati's Detroit version and he paces it fantastically at that point. Have to say though out of the many versions I have Chailly is just superb. Wow listen to those Concertgebouw woodwinds particularly! However all sections shine here!
There are so many superb performances of this work, but for me the Fischer stands just a little bit a part. It is so savage and so creepy. I don't mean to take anything away from the Dohnanyi, but I think the Fischer hits the mark a little bit better. Once you start it, you just can't turn it off. Everything happens so inevitably. It's my go-to recording.
Or how about (it's true..from the PR department of a well-respected Midwest opera company) Verdi's UN BALLO in MASCHERA ("A Masked Ball") advertised as "One Bottle of Mascara"?
@@HassoBenSoba Brilliant. Here in the UK in pre-email days newspaper critics had to phone in their reviews before midnight which led to problems, especially for the Guardian which headlined Lazy Luminations, the Miss A. Solemnis and my favourite, an opera called Doris Godunov.
I don't know if you heard it yet, but I would suggest the new Dutton Epoch Boulez/NYPO mastered in the original Quadraphonic sound but only if you are set-up for 4 channel sound. Magnificent and truly creepy! Wonderful!
I was going to suggest it as a suitable coupling ... maybe also with a filler of The Harry Lime theme and Oh My Darling Clementine, covered by Tangerine Dream
One of the things I judge is the chase sequence. I like the trombone part is not too rushed and is audible. I also want to hear the percussion clearly which happens with Dorati/Decca and the Dohnanyi/Vienna. Another favorite is fairly unknown by the Mahler Jugenderorchester conducted by Eotvos. I'm somewhat of a collector of recordings of this work. I agree with Boulez/NYP, Ozawa/Boston and have yet to hear the Ivan Fisher version you mentioned.
Well, I know a guy who listens to Webern at breakfast. He really does. Me too, I would prefer Bartók, I must confess. Thank you for this great talk. I just want to add that in the new edition of the score the UE prolongued the mess in sticking together the stage version and the suite in one score, but at least one doesn't have to hold it upside down. However, the worst Bartók-score is the pocket score of the Wooden Prince. It's useless. Concerning the recordings you did not mention: There is an early one with János Sándor, which is a wild ride with rough brass. Do you know Alsop? - I hesitate...
Hi David, have you heard the new performance of Welser-Most with the Cleveland Orchestra? It seems that the director has matured the approach of this work! Best regards
Bonjour David, what do you think of Antal Dorati's Music for strings, percussion and celesta which is coupled with the Detroit version of this Mandarin ?
Actually the best recording I've heard on that work is with Janos Ferencsik. Much more savage and raw compared to Boulez. Salonen is modern yes, but too fast! Even faster than the Duracell rabbit!
I’ve long enjoyed the Dutoit MSO Deccan recording but recently finally heard the Boulez NYP recording which I find a little more primal and edgy compared to the CSO DG recording.
There's a recording made by LA Phil and Salonen- closely released upon the opening of the Walt Disney Concert Hall. Kinda wished to hear your thoughts on that rendition!😔
I’ll have to give Slatkin a try. Slatkin/St Louis recordings on RCA always sounded somewhat muted to me. The brass seemed very far away and lacking authority . I noticed this especially in his Swan Lake and Shostakovich 8 and began limiting myself to his American recordings (Interestingly his EMI Barber and Copland disc didn’t seem to share this problem). I have replaced my college system since then, so maybe I’ll have a similar experience as you did with the Schwartz recording.
I take your point. The sound from that source always was relatively mellow, but if you crank up the volume you will find that it snaps into focus--the balances were always excellent and the textures notably clear.
@@kenm.3512 : definitely a second up-vote here for F. W.-M.'s London Bruckner 5th. Rather more brisk than I usually prefer, but an excellent rendition nonetheless.
When you said to "look at the coupling" on the Welser-Most cover, I kept thinking you were referring to the dude humping the ballerina.
It certainly was a task to find the best recording of this, musically and sonically. Boulez and the NY Phil in 1972! This is a work that needs big dynamics, especially the crescendos! I just knew you would come through for me, Dave!
The chase music was one of THE pieces that turned me on to classical music when I was a kid. I grew up in Cincinnati, and in grade school they would occasionally bus us downtown to hear the CSO (under, if I recall correctly, Erich Kunzel). On one of these jaunts (3rd grade? 4th grade? I dunno) the CSO played the savage 'chase' from The Miraculous Mandarin, and I came home raving to my Mom all about this Bela Bartok person. I had never heard anything that 'wild' before.
I like when you talk also about the worst recordings and not only about the best.
"Music At First Hearing" was a syndicated radio program back in the 60s and 70s where music critics often compared good, bad and ugly recordings of the same work. Does anyone else remember it?
I love your love of the lascivious! A best presentation EVER! Thanks for the rup-roaring fugue from Schwartz! Didn’t even know about the complete ballet versions with organ and chorus!
Great selections. There is also a Ballet Suite of the Mandarin recorded by the Philadelphia Orchestra conducted by Ormandy , I like it a lot.
There are a million very good versions of the suite.
What a wonderful tangerine it is! The Miraculous Mandarin is another video I was eagerly awaiting - it’s my favorite single Bartok composition. The Naxos/Schwartz recording is an outstanding recent performance as the clips ably demonstrate. Lots of spine and verve to keep things moving boisterously as they should. Boulez with the New York Phil is my absolute favorite; the ensemble and the conductor sympathize with the work in a perfectly exciting way. The other Boulez is great too, although I think Ivan Fischer is my #2. I’ll have to give Slatkin/St. Louis a listen. Thanks for the survey Dave!
Yeah I used to love the Dutoit but recently heard the Boulez New York recording and love it. I’ve seen this performed live and it’s a great work.
I love the Dorati Mercury recording - and also the Schoenberg/Berg/Webern "X number of Pieces for Orchestra" recording he made about the same time. Those recordings absolutely set the standard for playing this music.
I heard Schwartz do Mandarin live in Prague with the Czech Philharmonic a few years back. That was amazing. They don't play Bartok all that often - they let their neighbours in Budapest have all the fun. But Schwartz kicked their butts, and they played the snot out of it. It was electrifying.
The Dorati Decca version has a superb organ entry in the opening movement. Worth hearing at least once as the overall effect is superb (your neighbours may disagree...).
Your videos can be as interesting for their sidebars as for their subject matter. You're so right about recording and context. What soulds spectacular on one system is lifeless on another, and a performance that tries your patience at one time soothes or inspires at another. Your Seattle excerpts caught my attention. I'm not entirely happy with either of my versions, an old Turnabout with Reinhardt and the SWDR orchestra, and the Abbado, the former poorly recorded, the latter blurring much of the detail.
I bought the Chailly recording thanks to your advice. Electric performance!! I love everything on this disc. The Boulez NYP is still a personal favourite for its ferocity but the sound quality of this Chailly recording is amazing. The Concerto for Orch sounds divine!!
"The delights of citrus fruit," HAHAHAHAHAHA! You're in rare form! Years ago I was knocked flat by the Martinon/Chicago Symphony Mandarin recording, wondering how I would respond today; do you know it? Your choices here, as always, are spot on.
Sure I know it.
the martinon is fine, but no kertesz or reiner
Abbado is probably my go-to for this one. All of my friends flee when I put on any of the dozen or so recordings I own. A good way to clear out unwanted guests who've overstayed their welcome. The recording is terrifyingly dynamic and blisteringly fast. Schwarz is great, as well as both with Boulez. I really need to get Chailly's and Dohnayni's.
Great discussion of a miraculous work! My favorite is Ivan Fischer’s, but I also have Abbado/LSO and Boulez/Chicago and really like them, too. I had Dorati/Detroit on cassette and remember how great it sounded. Finally, I have the Welser-Most for the same reason you do-that fantastic Britten Prince of the Pagodas with Oliver Knussen! BTW: after your latest Marriner talk I ordered the Honegger set with the CzechPhil/Baudo. Thanks for that and for your Fanfare Hall of Fame review!
I struggled a long time with the Mandarin, but now that I got a bit older I really believe it's one of Bartók's masterworks... I grew up with Solti, which I still appreciate. But the ones you refer to easily outmatch him. I'm always a fan of Chailly in this music. He always adds a lyrical quality to the music, however visceral it may be. And of course I really plead for a Dohnanyi box...
Fischer's one is love at first listen: such a pristine sonic quality! it's like having the Budapest Orchestra in your livingroom. Absolutely gorgeous, like the "Concerto" on the same disc. My personal "sleeper" in Bartok's repertoire. Thanks David!
About that original ending to the Concerto for Orchestra - it reminds me of the disappointing original ending to the Enigma Variations. Once you've heard the ending where the composer pulls out all the stops, nothing else will do.
About the original ending to the Bartok Violin Concerto #2 - that's a bit of a different case. Bartok ended the concerto with a fabulous orchestral coda, but the soloist for the premiere whined that he wanted to play right up to the end. So Bartok discarded the coda and rewrote the ending with a conventional flourish for the soloist. Christian Tetzlaff and Michael Gielen recorded the original ending. It's ferocious.
One of my favorite pieces. I actually got to see the three Bartok stage works in one evening back in '81 at English National Opera/Sadler's Wells - a one-of-a-kind experience. I don't know that Dohnanyi performance/2fer at all, so immediately ordering it. I have loved the Boulez NYPhil recording forever - it was my introduction to the piece, and it seriously imprinted. Dutton Vocalion has been doing wonderful remasterings of certain Boulez recordings (and other 70s CBS surround-sound recordings, plus the RCA classic film series) on dual-layer CD/SACD, and they couple Mandarin with Boulez's excellent Concerto for orchestra. Really worth getting, proving yet again that the main problem with all those sonically-challenged CBS records wasn't the master recordings, it was the terrible vinyl pressings.
Wonderful talk, Dave. By the way, I own the Abbado/LSO recording of the whole ballet, and the Martinon/CSO recording of the suite.
"Ba Ba Baa - Ba Ba Ba ... Blah!" That summed up my opinion of Bartok until I saw your video. I always considered him as too "weird" for my tastes. But when I listened to your samples, Stravinsky's "Rite of Spring" immediately came to mind (which I love). I really enjoyed "The Miraculous Mandarin", much to my surprise. I tend to shy away from "modern composers" (though I love Sibelius, Strauss, Honegger, etc.). I have a new appreciation for Bartok thanks to you (I won't dismiss a composer based on trying to listen to one piece once). Now I can compare which versions of Bartok's composition I prefer (like I did with Honegger). Cheers!
Yep, the Fischer recording is my favourite - deliciously nasty, sleazy and brutal...
"Every morning with my tea" is mind blowing. But now I can see another Hurwitz series or more, "music to start your day," " music to not start your day, "or "music for the deaf."
Penderecki "Polymorphia" absolutely has to be recommended for that epic morning series. c. 12.5 minutes of quasi-random typical "It came from Darmstadt!" bloop-blop-squeak, followed by the most incongruous C-major finale chord in existence...
I have both of the Dorati recordings, as well as some others. I definitely have to hear hear the complete by Schwartz. Thanks for sharing those.
My old school orchestra played this In the gardens of Walton's home in Ischia. Sir William was on the front row and after a few bars he said rather loudly "I can't stand bloody Bartok". I agree with you about The Prince of the Pagodas. Britten's own stereo recording from 1957 is available in very good transfers in one of those cheap 10 CD boxes that you have been reviewing recently. It also includes the composer's 1958 Decca recording of Peter Grimes. Title: Britten 100 the birthday celebration.
Just listened to Chailly - WOW! (PLEASE do the Violin Concerto next! )
I remember hearing Boulez' second Cleveland recording of The Rite of Spring and bring startled by the tempo for the Danse Sacrale. Why was it so measured? And then I realised it was to make the harmonies clear - so that the music became even more creepy and oppressive through the weight and strangeness of those endlessly repeated harmonies. You get used to hearing just a furious noise in the Danse Sacrale but here is a case, as you point out, of a slower tempo enhancing the effect of the music rather than muting it.
Hi Dave, would you do a video on Enescu ? (way beyond the Rumanian Rhapsody!) What about Szymanowski? I'd be really interested to know your thoughts on these two great composers.
I've done a bit of Szymanowski in various contexts, but plan to do more--Enescu too.
That chase passage done by the Seattle Symphony is scary as hell. wow, just WOW
LOVE his hilarious critique of the things either Bartok, or a given orchestra, don't do well.
He's such a good critic that he makes me want to hear the bad versions just to enjoy how mediocre they are, like a film critic who tells you a movie is such an awful turkey, that you are compelled rush out to enjoy that train-wreck as pure camp farce, with plenty of popcorn.
(Not a bad way to learn how to be a discerning listener. )
Urban realist Liebestod: that's a hoot!
This video is rich in charming Hurwitzisms - it really is.
Another cultural link, like that of your opera patron: in Terry Southern and Mason Hoffenberg cult novel "Candy" (1958), Bartok 's MM is sweet innocent heroine Candy's favorite LP, and as she plays the record in the morning the narrator describes its gruesome plot.
Wonderful shootout- You covered most of em! I must contribute; I find the sonics with Rattle’s version superior !
My late grandmother always had tangerines for breakfast - to keep her "regular", she said - so maybe that deaf lady was a distant relative.
And here's quite a sleeper: the Melbourne Symphony with Hiroyuki Iwaki conducting. I bought it for Stravinsky's Agon, and was pleasantly surprised and knocked over by the Mandarin as well--the only one other than Boulez/New York that gets the knee-to-the-groin gutsiness of this music. Coupled with a great Concerto for Orchestra, and a damn good Stravinsky Petroushka as well. Go for it.
I've got the Mercury Dorati and the Fischer of the complete ballet as well as number of versions of the suite. It's certainly an extraordinary (sic) work.
You can have breakfast with just about any thing 😋 hajahhahaaha, thanks for making me laugh today. I really needed it, Sir
Whilst comparisons are invidious I think MM is as significant a ballet as The Rite of Spring - in fact it could be titled the The Rite of Urban Decay! Completely agree about the chase not being done too fast (I think there's trombone glissandos in there, correct me if I'm wrong, which really need to register) - got to know the work through Dorati's Detroit version and he paces it fantastically at that point. Have to say though out of the many versions I have Chailly is just superb. Wow listen to those Concertgebouw woodwinds particularly! However all sections shine here!
There are so many superb performances of this work, but for me the Fischer stands just a little bit a part. It is so savage and so creepy. I don't mean to take anything away from the Dohnanyi, but I think the Fischer hits the mark a little bit better. Once you start it, you just can't turn it off. Everything happens so inevitably. It's my go-to recording.
I like The Miraculous Tangerine. It would go well with a Borodin piece I once saw advertised; In Average Asia.
I had to read that ten times. Now I get it. Ufff.
That's like the "Caucasian Suspects" by Molotov-Cocktailov.
Or how about (it's true..from the PR department of a well-respected Midwest opera company) Verdi's UN BALLO in MASCHERA ("A Masked Ball") advertised as "One Bottle of Mascara"?
@@HassoBenSoba Brilliant. Here in the UK in pre-email days newspaper critics had to phone in their reviews before midnight which led to problems, especially for the Guardian which headlined Lazy Luminations, the Miss A. Solemnis and my favourite, an opera called Doris Godunov.
@@henrygingercat OK, at the risk of embarassing myself, what on earth is "Lazy Luminations" supposed to be?
I don't know if you heard it yet, but I would suggest the new Dutton Epoch Boulez/NYPO mastered in the original Quadraphonic sound but only if you are set-up for 4 channel sound. Magnificent and truly creepy! Wonderful!
I'll satisfy my need to revel in the delights of citrus fruit by listening to The Love for Three Oranges.
I was going to suggest it as a suitable coupling ... maybe also with a filler of The Harry Lime theme and Oh My Darling Clementine, covered by Tangerine Dream
("The Loathing for Three Durian" when performed in S.E. Asia...^^)
One of the things I judge is the chase sequence. I like the trombone part is not too rushed and is audible. I also want to hear the percussion clearly which happens with Dorati/Decca and the Dohnanyi/Vienna. Another favorite is fairly unknown by the Mahler Jugenderorchester conducted by Eotvos. I'm somewhat of a collector of recordings of this work. I agree with Boulez/NYP, Ozawa/Boston and have yet to hear the Ivan Fisher version you mentioned.
Our local fabulous Houston Ballet has done this and just wish it was on DVD.
I was playing my LP of the Ozawa/Boston recording on DG the other day. Stupendous music!
Well, I know a guy who listens to Webern at breakfast. He really does. Me too, I would prefer Bartók, I must confess.
Thank you for this great talk.
I just want to add that in the new edition of the score the UE prolongued the mess in sticking together the stage version and the suite in one score, but at least one doesn't have to hold it upside down.
However, the worst Bartók-score is the pocket score of the Wooden Prince. It's useless.
Concerning the recordings you did not mention: There is an early one with János Sándor, which is a wild ride with rough brass.
Do you know Alsop? - I hesitate...
You hesitate with good reason. Check out my review on CT.com.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Read it. One piece less to rob the place for better CDs... Thanks!
Hi David, have you heard the new performance of Welser-Most with the Cleveland Orchestra? It seems that the director has matured the approach of this work!
Best regards
My first recording of the Mandarin was the Dohnanyi.
Bonjour David, what do you think of Antal Dorati's Music for strings, percussion and celesta which is coupled with the Detroit version of this Mandarin ?
I don't think it's one of the better ones. It's a bit sluggish and too careful.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Thanks for your prompt answer David
Actually the best recording I've heard on that work is with Janos Ferencsik. Much more savage and raw compared to Boulez. Salonen is modern yes, but too fast! Even faster than the Duracell rabbit!
I’ve long enjoyed the Dutoit MSO Deccan recording but recently finally heard the Boulez NYP recording which I find a little more primal and edgy compared to the CSO DG recording.
There's a recording made by LA Phil and Salonen- closely released upon the opening of the Walt Disney Concert Hall. Kinda wished to hear your thoughts on that rendition!😔
www.classicstoday.com/review/review-13339/?search=1
I’ll have to give Slatkin a try. Slatkin/St Louis recordings on RCA always sounded somewhat muted to me. The brass seemed very far away and lacking authority . I noticed this especially in his Swan Lake and Shostakovich 8 and began limiting myself to his American recordings (Interestingly his EMI Barber and Copland disc didn’t seem to share this problem).
I have replaced my college system since then, so maybe I’ll have a similar experience as you did with the Schwartz recording.
I take your point. The sound from that source always was relatively mellow, but if you crank up the volume you will find that it snaps into focus--the balances were always excellent and the textures notably clear.
Dear Mr Hurwitz!
I wonder if you have played in a performance of Tchaikovsky's Manfed?
Best wishes Fred.
Manfred.
I wish!
Has WPO recorded Manfred?
For Your Bluebeard's Castle story I thought you meant Sam Raimi the director of the Spiderman movies. I assume now that it was Samuel Ramey, the basso
A good bet.
Does Chailly ever put out a bad recording??? I first discovered him through his Sinfonia (Berio), which is a standout. So he's becoming my go-to.
Yes, he has his share of boring performances--I wouldn't say "bad," but certainly "dull."
Has the Blockbuster Ormandy Edition arrived at Casa Hurwitz for review?
Nope.
Why is it - in your opinion - that Slatkin doesn’t actually have a box? It’s odd.
He has several smaller boxes. Actually, a lot of them. Perhaps that's why.
Ah, Franz Worse-than-Most! Did he ever make a worthwhile record?
Yes, quite a few.
Perhaps the Franz Schmidt's Variations on a Hussar's Song?
He has led the Cleveland Orchestra in several really fine recordings for their own label, released in the last year. Ignore his DG Beethoven 9.
@@kenm.3512 : definitely a second up-vote here for F. W.-M.'s London Bruckner 5th. Rather more brisk than I usually prefer, but an excellent rendition nonetheless.
I have his Mahler 4 with the LPO, rather slow but very good.