Repertoire: The BEST Bartók Piano Concerto Sets
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 11 ธ.ค. 2020
- Bartók's three piano concerts fit perfectly on a single disc, and have been very fortunate when it comes to recordings. The truth is, there are practically no bad cycles available. In this chat, I consider eleven of them, all worth considering, and although I naturally have my favorites, you can probably do just as well with any of them.
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Bavouzet is such a fascinating pianist. The amount of repertoire he masters is simply astounding. And for a French pianist, he's actually very Hungarian. He had a close relationship with Kocsis, he met people like Solti, Sándor... He basically soaked up the Hungarian musical education. Also his collaboration with Takács-Nagy on the Mozart piano concertos is so good, I'm very much looking forward to the future volumes.
Oh and also thanks for doing Jandó's justice!
There is also a recording by Andras Schiff and Ivan Fischer with Budapest Festival Orchestra, 1996. My personal favorite.
Andras Schiff said that it is one of the most difficult pieces to play and that the piano ends up in blood after performing it.
Thank you for these reviews! Love it.
Thanks for watching!
I was happily surprised that Salonen could bring the goods in Bartok's piano concertos, and his partnership with Yefim Bronfman was electric for me. These two also recorded the Shostakovich piano concertos, and I think that is another great recording. Thanks for the videos!
Thanks for this! The Fricsay/Anda was not only my first Bartok piano set, it was also one of the first CDs I ever bought and made me love this kind of music. It holds a special place in my collection. I think it's worth mentioning Abbado/Pollini, although they only did the first two as far as I know.
Great video, I think you got them all. Your thoughts about Kocsis are spot on.
Following your suggestion, I just listened to the Anda/Fricsay version for the first time and I have to say it is fantastic! It almost feels like I had never listened to these pieces of music at all before. What a great discovery for me! 🙏🏻
Glad you enjoy it!
Kocsis!!! Some the best Debussy on record. Ditto Rachmaninov sonata 2
Thanks for your Bartok Piano Concertos talk! You are so right when it comes to sets of all three. My favorite remains Anda/Fricsay partly because it was my introduction to the works, but also because I return to it most often. For a change I go to the Boulez set, but have also enjoyed Koscis and Bronfman. You mentioned Rattle’s accompaniment for Donohue which reminded me of a similarly fine recording of the Violin Concerto and Rhapsodies with Kyung-Wha Chung. As to those awful jewel cases, I am happy to see that some labels such as BIS and BMC are now using cardboard instead. These discs also take up less shelve space so I can fit more CDs in my bookcases!😃
I have the Kovacevich, and more recently the Boulez Allstar box, which are very good. However, I have loved Kocsis' playing of Bartok for a long time, but it was next to impossible to get the concertos when I was doing the first phase of buying CDs in the 1990s, and then in the last year, which is my second big phase. Fortunately, Presto had their own pressing available, which I have just had delivered today. And HOLY COW, you're spot on. It's just that extra layer of precision, idiomatic faithfulness and a way with rhythm that is just that little bit better. Superb.
I already have the Kocsis, Schiff and Bavouzet, so I'm well served. But your video is "absolutely first class". 😁
Mention of the Schiff, reminded me he did a really splendid recording on Denon of miscellaneous Bartok piano pieces - again shows he easily has the measure of this kind of material.
Absolutely great talk Dave ;-) keep on talking! Absolutely :-)
David, I couldn't agree more - especially about Kocsis. He was one of the most amazing pianists ever. His Chopin, Liszt, Debussy, Rachmaninov and - above all - Bartok were some of the best ever recorded. His sense of touch and rhythm. I agree that Kocsis and Anda's sets would probably be my primary two recommendations. However, I would add that the Schiff set is a close third. His version is incredibly underrated. He comes from the same school as Kocsis though he makes the music his own. I was kind of hoping for an IDEAL Bartok talk. Maybe don't limit it to concertos. Do the three piano concertos, second violin concerto, concerto for orchestra. Music for Percussion, Strings and Celeste, Miraculous Mandarin and Sonata for two pianos and percussion. That would be worth hearing! And thinking about!
Yes, I agree. I will think about it!
This video is _absolutely_ .... Let’s just leave it at that!
Great pieces and selections. Hardly a Kocsis legacy box, but I fell in love with his volume in the “great pianist series”. Amazing Rach 4 and Debussy Fantasie (only Bartok included are Romanian Folk Dances)
You nailed it. The Geza Anda / Ferenc Fricsay set is in another league.
I just bought the Kocsis Philips box set and am looking forward to revisiting his Bartok. I had many of his Hungariton discs and thought they were great, so I never bought many of his Philips recordings.
Excellent review, as usual. My point of entry, many years ago, to the Bartok universe was the Third Piano Concerto. Since then I have explored his works in depth and keep coming back to them at intervals. To date I have retained only two complete concerto sets: Anda/Fricsay and Ashkenazy/Solti. However, in Concertos 1 & 2 my allegiance to Pollini/Abbado remains firm. Why did they not complete the cycle, one wonders? It would have arguably led the pack. Pollini has just the right touch and tone for Barok, and Abbado's penchant for detail works wonders with this composer.
The Kocsis/Fischer and Anda/Fricsay are both in the Decca Complete Bartok box. I don't know how others feel about this box but I think it has some real gems in there.
I was a little worried that it had escaped me, but, sure enough, I checked the contents and found it buried deep within that box, which I had the foresight to acquire when it came out. Deep sigh of relief.
@@olegroslak852 I need to listen, His Debussy CD as David says is utterly magical. I can't think of a better single CD of Debussy.
I'm looking forward to your review of Salonen's first released recording with the SF Symphony, out this month on Penatone,, Bartok's 3 Piano concertos with Amard as the soloist.
"It's so easy to pooh-pooh something when you haven't bothered to listen to it" - truer words were never spoken
Hello Dave....I listened and watched...I have the Schiff recording....and if you have heard the Anton Dikov performances with the Sofia Philharmonic...good fun.
Do you think Cantelli and Fricsay would have been the "next big thing" if they had lived longer?
Is there recordings of some or all of these concertos with the pianist Tamas Vasary? Or did I miss that part?
Regarding spare parts. I bought the two CD Levine DG Schumann symphonies set online. The jewel cases were clearly not original. So I first searched for pictures of the CDs on the internet to see what the original cases look like. I then went to a used record store and bought two DG CDs released around the same time as the Schumann CDs that had jewel cases that looked the same. I replaced the jewel cases and threw out the rest. I think that is my biggest «restoration project».
I agree with most of what you say. Anda / Fricsay was my first Bartok-disk at all, and it has remained my reference recording of the piano concertos - but I agree also that Kocsis / Fischer is unsurpassed until now. Besides: Many years ago, Hungaroton issued a complete Bartók-box. In it, Kocsis plays the concertos under the direction of György Lehel (1, 2) and János Ferencsik (3) - and it's fantastic! Especially the 1st has a percussive drive I never heard again.
Concerning the Boulez-recordings: I have problems with the 3rd, because Grimaud is too soft edged for my taste, whereas Boulez tries to be clear and clean. But that's just my opinion.
Great talk, as always!
@@Velissiotisnikosvyahoocom You're right! And yes, it IS fantastic!
Fricsay and Anda. Awesome. Never heard a better interpretation. Btw, I have found the third piano played by Bartok's wife, Ditta Pasztory conducted by Tibor Serly on Musical Heritage old lps of th 1960. It is a collector piece, the interpretation si so-so, the sound is not very good. But it is BArtok Wife and Serly. But the spirit of concerto is intact....
Looks like someone heard you. A Kocsis box (Phillips Recordings) is due out in February 2022. Nice that they do listen. Thanks!
It finally came out, but after his untimely passing in 2016 : Zoltan Kocsis - Complete Philips Recordings (26CD)
At the rate I'm watching these videos my wallet will be empty in a few weeks. Thank you for these fantastic and thoughtful reviews.
My pleasure! Thanks for watching.
This is probably not the place to put this but I am not sure that David has done a video just on the individual concertos. One that I find top notch is the 3rd with Martha Agerich with the Concertgebouw which to my knowledge is only available in the anthology set #6 of the Concertgebouw. Would like to hear comments but I doubt I will get any since I have posted this so late after the fact. This to date is my favorite.
I read all comments, but as you say, this isn't the place for that discussion.
You're right Dave: Philips need to get a grip on themselves and treat their Zoltan Kocsis legacy with the respect it deserves and make it widely available. I hate to introduce a sordid commercial note into your comments box, but currently on Amazon's UK website someone is offering the concertos set for 1,200.21GBP. (With free delivery though, so I guess that's OK!!) Fortunately it's available elsewhere to download at a modest cost. Keep up the good work!
Can you point me please to where it is available to download? I have literally followed this recording for years and the cost is absurd and it always seems to be out of print. I have all of his solo piano Bartok stuff, but I am desperate to get my hands on the three concerti.
@@alanmcginn4796 Unfortunately, even Presto (which is usually my go-to place for classical downloads) doesn’t offer it in that format, although they do offer a custom-pressed CD of it.
@@JamesDavidWalley Yes. I saw that. I may have to bite the bullet. Presto is wonderful. they are doing a deal on Naxos right now and all singles are $5 and doubles are $9.75. I just picked up Wit's Mahler 8. Thank you for the reply though. Frustrating that we can't put our hands on music, isn't it.
If I am not mistaken Jenő Jandó had a hard time getting more of the limelight because he was from the same generation of the Hungarian school as Schiff, Kocsis and Ránki.
I have all 3 of Bartok on an old Vox Box set with Sandor.. It includes the Rhapsody,Scherzo and Sonata for 2 Pianos and Percussion. Any thoughts on this recording??
I think "old" is the operative term. You can do better.
I bought that same set on vinyl years ago and found it a little bland. I bought the Kovacevich - Davis recordings which are much more engaging. Years later I also added the Anda - Fricsay recordings to my CD collection and those are great too.
If one does not mind paying nearly a grand, you can get an out-of-print import single-cd of the Ashkenazy/Solti/LPO. That way you don't have to get the Solti box! Only if price is no object....
Could you please shed some light on exactly which CD/edition you're referring to? Is it the Decca Ovation one?
Glad to hear DH say that the version of sonata for two pianos & percussion as a concerto "is just awful". I'd thought I was the only one with that opinion
I'd love to digitise your CD collection (no more cracked Jewel Cases!) I imagine it would take me two lifetimes, but I'd probably pay you for the opportunity to do it properly!! :)
Maybe one day!
I have tought about it more than one time. I have my collection in HDs now, and also I did a database where I can choose to play all versions of a work in one playlist and it is much easier to compare them this away, instead of changing CDs etc. Every performer of every work is in the database also, and I can list the music by composer or performer - which is also great. The music are ordered by my personal criteria, group by orchestra, concertos, chamber etc.
@@maudia27 What format are the files in, and what do you store them on?
@@bendingcaesar65 Flac and a 3tb HD. The booklet are in jpg format - the database show the cover for each music/version - and with a double click - it opens the complete booklet. For David - probably two 8tb Hds :)
Another “Hurwitz Effect” release? Kocsis Complete Philips Recordings due on December 17, 2021.
No, not me, although I've been pushing for it for years.
@Linux Tuxfriend That's not far off.
where is Abbado & Pollini ???
Where is their 3rd concerto? These are complete sets.
What makes the BBC Philharmonic dull?
It's a comparative thing. The general lack of character in the playing as compared to other, more vividly profiled orchestras. They are never less the competent, but all too seldom more--but that also depends on the conductor.
@@DavesClassicalGuide I've heard them frequently, live, and they have always struck me as a thoroughly committed group of musicians who make a fine sound in their own recording studio in Salford as well as the Bridgewater Hall in Manchester. Barenboim brought the Chicagoans to Manchester some years ago, and before the concert, members of that orchestra were taking pictures of the auditorium! Perhaps they were envious! Sadly, installing air conditioning in Orchestra Hall. Chicago, screwed up the acoustic that lent such luster to their Living Stereo recordings. A few years ago, I heard Haitink performing in Orchestra Hall and I was shocked how bad the acoustic is now. I lived in Chicago during the Reiner/Martinon years. Thanks for all the effort you put into encouraging us all to listen.
@@leedsleeds8091 I have not heard them live. I can only go by what I hear on the recordings. I have been very positive about many of them, but like so many groups these days they have done so much--repertoire that they cannot be familiar with, or that isn't terribly interesting, under conductors who aren't especially charismatic, so what can we expect?
@@DavesClassicalGuide believe it or not, they had an ongoing relationship with Solti who always conducted them when visiting his in-laws in the North of England! I saw him conduct the Shostakovich Symphony no. 15 with them just before he died. He also gave a fascinating pre-concert talk.
I have zero interest in the underlying lyrical folk beauty of the Bartok concertos - there are hundreds of other concertos if pretty is all I want to hear. The Bartok concertos are completely, well, badass, and I prefer to hear them played as such. Bang away and treat the piano like the percussion instrument it is. Esa-Pekka and Bronfman get the gold from me for that reason.
Yes, Alex, I agree. Also there are terrific performances of 2 and 3 on TH-cam with Deszo Ranki and Kocsis conducting.
Zero interest? That’s a bit odd and it doesn’t follow that the most percussive recordings of the Bartók concertos are superior because there is lyricism elsewhere? You might not like the lyricism but it is unavoidably there, and not only in the slow movements. These concertos have quite strong lyrical impulses, which isn’t to say that they are predominantly lyrical works in the sense that most of the earlier piano concertos were, but it is also to say that Bartok was a pretty lyrical composer, fundamentally, as its got a lot of grounding in song (meaning of lyrical).
So, I’m not sure that going for the most obviously percussive and anti lyrical renditions is exactly giving the music it’s due. I'm sure Bronfman's performance is fine and exciting, but I wouldn't in the end go to Salonen and him for something that resonates with the, well, obvious song-based nature of the works (and dance based too, but everything we know about Bartok points to the importance of central european, african, eastern european songs)
I agree with Alex. I much prefer to let Bartok be Bartok. His whole point (at least with the first two concertos) was about the percussive quality of the piano. Performances that downplay that seem to be missing something for me. Though sometimes the mood does strike to hear an alternative.
I fully agree.
Hmm
Just listened the new recording by Aimard and Salonen on Pentatone…and what a disappointment! Terribly dull and boring, not only Aimard to whom this project maybe came a little late in his carreer, but strangely Salonen also. Waiting for a video on this. All the best, Dave.