Hahaha thank you Cookie! Thanks for staying with us through all this torture. Finally we found a strategy that didn't fail at the very end, so I would say this was 100% worth it in exchange for being the first to finally pull this off! :D
@@Marcmb Definitely worth it! Though at the time, with the amount of times we were so close and failed, it sure didn't feel worth it 🤣! Thankfully with Gabriel's research and our perserverance, we finally managed to complete it!
honestly the amount of coordination that is required for something like this probably ends up making the heist harder than a legitimate stealth run. it's insane watching such small details make such a big difference.
Haha thanks Frost! Pretty true to be honest: for us it was more like a challenge run (to see if the heist could be ECM rushed), but the amount of planning and coordination it requires makes it much harder than a regular stealth run (which is kind of the opposite of what you would expect of a rush haha!). Although at least, after everyone has learnt their roles, then the rush is much easier and especially faster than the regular stealth approach, as one would expect :)
Thanks a lot Dreamer, glad you enjoyed this one too!! Indeed, this one took A LOT of patience: so many changes in the strategy, and so many attempts to perfect each of the strategies, just to find out that they didn't work!
Thank you very much Harablo, glad you liked that! I honestly never thought I would see a rush where the kill distribution was so important (because generally all you want is the maximum ECM rush time, regardless of the order), but surprisingly on this one the order was very important :D
Fun Fact: If playing in VR you can actually place C4 without the forklift. A centered jump right below the C4 will get you close enough to start the interaction, and VR will also gives extra room so the interaction isn't canceled by the distance. You will still need the forklift for the saws though
Ooh I had no idea Pix, that's very interesting! Really really interesting. Having 3 heisters with C4 doing the basement would definitely speed this up then :D I'll definitely have to check it out in the future, if I ever get a full VR crew (even though I don't even have VR myself yet haha)
@@Marcmb I have experience in VR. It's not much, but its _something._ The major limitation in playing in VR is fatigue. Given that I am not slim at all, I get physically tired after some time. If you're not like me, this limitation will most likely not be as bad, but it might still affect you. Looking past that *and* motion sickness... VR was _made_ to be advantageous over desktop gameplay: 1. Some skills have additional "VR only" benefits. I have forgotten what these skills are (and apply to), though, as I have not played PD2 in VR in a long time. 2. Assuming you are right-handed, you can use your left hand to do tasks (such as lockpick a door open) _while_ having the ability to shoot with the gun in your right hand. You can't reload while doing a task, though. 3. VR has improved mobility. Some areas that are too high on desktop, _might_ be in-reach in VR. That is, you use click-to-move rather than smooth locomotion. 4. Dynamic reloading allows you to reload your guns early. Not sure how useful that is for stealthing, but definitely handy for some specific situations. The drawback, though, is that your magazine will only be partially full. There might be more things I'm missing or have misremembered, but having not played PD2 in VR for a long time, that's the best information I can share. Of course, there are PD2 VR videos on YT that can be watched also to get a better idea of how it is to play the game in VR. Other than that, I have nothing else to say. Best of luck.
Thanks for the thorough list, Unkanow! I had heard only about #2, but I didn't know about the rest. It would be really cool to make VR PAYDAY2 videos in the future, so I'll definitely have to make some research before that. Although for now I don't even have a VR device (and I've never used one), so it's definitely a plan for the far future!
@@Marcmb biggest problem with VR is the typing in chat - it's sooo incredibly slow, because you have to aim with one of your controllers at a virtual keyboard from SteamVR (it's basically typing with 1 finger on a real keyboard) + the keyboard is buggy and sometimes just doesn't send the message if you hit 'enter'. so if this will ever be done with a VR-crew, you'd definitely have to use voice chat to coordinate things.
That would be really cool! There's no ways the devs thought about it though, because from their perspective it was 100% impossible :p Glad you liked the plan, thank you very much! :D
I was a little late for the premiere but holy shit man you actually did it. I can just imagine the amount of runs you did before hand. Overkill should definitely acknowledge this in some way.
No worries Zer0! Glad you enjoyed it :D They might acknowledge it by patching it, who knows hahaha! This did indeed take a lot of runs, mainly because most of our strategies (after a few attempts to optimize and perfect them) ended up failing at the very end (usually because of things related to the camera operator), so definitely many attempts!
Hahaha! I was wondering where this comment was going, and it caught me off-guard at the end. Definitely got me, 10/10! Poor Bain, he's so useless sometimes :D
I knew how this one would work because I’ve experienced the pager deletion in a normal run. After spending hours grinding this heist (idk why it’s just a really hard one for me) I finally got to the unmask step but got detected right before I got into the unmask room, but I had no pagers left. Killed the guard, feeling super defeated, and walked into the room. Then the pager despawned. That was the happiest I have been playing payday ever. Loved the video and remembering the memory!
Yup, that's exactly right Bubba! From the very beginning, our plan was to use the despawn mechanic when unmasking to be able to finish the rush... that's why I was so confident when we reached the unmasking on our plan A run, that I typed "safe" in the chat... Then it turned out that the despawning does not apply to the camera operator, and things became a lot trickier! :D
i love how many different people this game has: Loud pros, Stealth pros (You, Marcmb!), game mechanics pros, modding pros, even mask customzation pros. GG's, awesome run!
Thank you very much nick! We were definitely commited to eventually seeing it through, especially after being so close after each different strategy...
Glad you had fun watching this one Beefjerky, thank you very much! It did take a lot of patience, indeed. When our strategies kept failing at the very end, we were ready to give up and call it impossible... but luckily our final strategy worked flawlessly :D
Holy shit this is nuts. The level of coordination you guys have as a team to be able to pull this off is beyond me. I tried this heist in DS with a friend a couple days ago and we failed again, and again, trying to navigate these kitchens with guards and civs. Eventually we pulled it off in stealth after another day of trying, but just barely. I would never attempt something like this though, this is just insane, well done
Thanks so much Dynamic! Glad you enjoyed the coordination on this one :) Congratulations on the stealth completion for you and your friend! This one felt quite insane indeed on the day that we pulled it off. We were about to give up because so many strategies kept failing :D
Haha pretty much! Glad you liked it, Bryan :) Considering we had 3 strategies which failed at the very end for reasons related to the rush time, or the camera operator, this did take a lot of discussion: someone would bring up a possible strategy, and the rest of the crew would look for its weak points, ways to improve it, etc :p It was really fun!
Thank you h3ll! Indeed, that cam guy was a real pain, he forced us to change strategy at least 2 or 3 times... finally we found a way around him though, and it was 100% worth the effort :D
i had completely forgot that the pECM cooldown decrease could apply in stealth too, since you never notice it occuring in normal playthroughs! this was an insane video to watch, i never knew how ECM-unfriendly Alesso was; i always assumed it would be a straightforward one with just time management for the pyrotechnics. fantastic job!
Hi there ent! Glad you liked the rush, thank you very much :) Indeed, I never thought there would be an ECM rush where the cooldown mechanic would be important (because generally you only care about the total time, not the exact order), but this one turned out to be the exception! And indeed, the rush was quite tricky. Very challenging stuff, but really fun! :D
Thank you very much Demvare, glad you liked it! :D I agree with you completely: as of right now, I consider this to be the hardest ECM rush in the entire game, even harder than the Golden Grin Casino. I guess only time will tell if there's a harder one!
Wow.... just wow.... the research, the coordination... everything. Amazing to watch. Huge pull off. As always, outstanding job. Thanks for bringing this to the comunity
„Hello, Overkill Studios, this is Almir speaking“ … „They did WHAT?!? The entire Heist?? But that‘s impossible! We did everything to make it that way! Noooooooooooooooooooooo…“
Hahaha sorry Almir! While it makes a lot of sense to design heists that are impossible to ECM rush, finding ways around it makes it 100 times more fun! I'm looking forward to future heists having even more anti-ECM rush mechanics, to have more challenging stuff to do :p
I've played that one, yup! Haven't had a chance to play the newer one Ukrainian Prisoner though, unfortunately :( As for the Dragon Heist, it's my favorite out of all the new heists so far! I love stealthing it, and I even made a video for all achievements in a single duo run. I personally like it a lot, so I might do an Ultimate Stealth Guide in the future, and an ECM rush video too! :D
Thank you very much, superchickenmilk! Glad you liked it, and the colored text too! I feel like it helps when connecting certain actions to certain heisters, especially when there might not be much time to read the text :)
when i started watching this i was wondering if this was a way to make alesso heist actually interesting but it just seems more stressful than usual haha as always, you guys do a great job at organizing its really cool to watch!
Haha it is very stressful, yeah! Pretty much everyone needs to know the strategy, and it'll take a bit of practice. For players who enjoy ECM rushing, it would be fun to attempt, but in general it's just a very hard strategy! Glad you liked it raven, thank you! :D
You are INSANE, guys! GG on doing this incredible task. I was actually shocked and very happy, when you pulled it off! You deserve a LOT more subs for the hard work that you do
Thanks a lot for the very nice comment Sitman, I appreciate it a lot! Glad you enjoyed the rush, and seeing us pull it off :) I do have to say, that I have a lot more subscribers than I ever expected (so I couldn't ask for more!), but still, thanks a lot for the kind words! :D
Really clever way of doing it, I discovered the despawn mechanic when you unmask by accident a time ago, always thought it could be done for a rush. Nice vid!
Thank you very much juan, glad you liked it! Indeed, the main part of our strategy relied completely on the despawn mechanic. Surprisingly, it did not apply to the camera operator, and that forced us to rethink the strategy a few times. Overall, this rush was very entertaining to plan :D
Haha that would be a very thorough way to make them impossible to rush! In the past, they used to do that with objectives lasting 4 minutes (Big Bank's timelock, the ship moving for Bomb: Dockyard...) but nowadays even those are easily ECM'd through by adding Pocket ECMs! :D
Thanks Wizmor! Glad you're enjoying the content :) I invited 3 very very talented rushers for this one, because it was gonna be my hardest rush so far, and it went really smooth with just text! :D
Haha thank you Striker! This one was specially fun to rush because it had so many things getting in the way and requiring changes of strategy. Really fun to plan and execute; glad you liked it! :D
Hey TacticalBananas! Glad you liked this one too, thank you very much! :D In the future we might get a heist that is 100% impossible to ECM rush. Only time will tell! :p
I feel like full hacker crew ecm rush is the most realistic way to do stealth heist. Unlike sneakily running around while you exposed your whole body to someone
I definitely agree, Villager, glad you think so as well! The stealth system is fun, but not very realistic: all the suspicious things that get ignored by security don't make sense at all. On the other hand, going in fast while delaying communications, and getting out asap, is way more realistic for a heist!
ok I'll be honest I absolutely didn't believe it was going to be possible when you made that community post, very impressive. guessing it took a lot of tries we don't see though ;)
Hi again Graknorke! Glad we were able to surpass your expectationg, and happy to hear you enjoyed the rush! :D It did take a loot of tries, especially because our first strategies were failing as soon as we reached the camera operator. For each strategy showcased here, we definitely needed quite a few attempts to optimize it to reach the end quickly enough, only to find out that the strategy didn't work out :D
Haha we actually almost gave up, Avian! We were needing so many strategy changes, and so many small optimizations, etc, that we almost gave up and considered it impossible. Finally we managed to find a reliable strategy that worked, and it was 100% worth it!! :D
Glad you like the playstyle, gack! It is indeed really cool: more intense than regular stealth, everything has a hard time limit, any mistakes in the chains of ECMs fails the heist instantly... Regular stealth is really fun too, but hopefully all this can stay and be improved for PAYDAY3! :D
That rng and planning... It took u awhile. But in the end, even if u cant ecm rush, u will still gain something. And as always, congrats for ecm rushing it and thks for creating such a content! Would like to see more
Glad you liked that, Rodrigo! Usually it's a mechanic that is not used (because the final number of ECMs and PCMs is the same) but in this case we needed to get to that final PCM cycle faster, so it was more interesting than usual! :D
the stealth escape seems bugged (in a good way) when going loud, so Plan A might have worked. What happened: we did a stealth run the normal way. At the very end (we were 3), 2 of my teammates reached the escape, but then I ran into a guard and the heist went loud. The escape area stopped being highlighted but I still went to stand next to my teammates. To our surprise, a few seconds later the heist successfully finished. Date: 3 weeks ago. (May 2023)
Interesting observation VADemon! I'll test this ingame the next time I play. A long time I was standing at the escape waiting for my crew, but they ran into a guard and, even after coming all the way to me, the escape didn't trigger... There is one good thing though, which is that you can ECM even if the escape zone vanishes, and after about a minute, the van will arrive even if the alarm has not gone off!
:D Thank you very much, illu! Indeed, the only way to reliably get past the green closets (which get reinforced during the ECM block, and become immune to even saw damage) was to do a short Pocket ECM rush to take out all 4 kitchen guards (and civs) simultaneously, to then get free reign to grab all the C4. Glad you enjoyed it!!
I'm going to be honest, I don't know how to ECM Rush so idk if you would technically be allowed to stealth prior to doing the rush. But, If you are allowed to stealth prior and for it to count: Green Closets - Pick them while stealth Heist Duration - Basically fucking TAS run To make it even worse - probably pick that before the rush And to make it *EVEN WORSE* - I've never been able to stealth this successfully, always ended up going loud. Side note: I've so far only watched up to 4:06 currently and this is just my thoughts
Hey again Angzarr! Very close guesses in each of the points. The most advanced ECM Rush strategies are designed aiming for a 0% chance of failure, so the only difference is that technically we don't stealth for the Green Closets part, instead we use some Pocket ECMs to fully clear all the relevant areas of guards. Everything else you guessed very well! :D
@@Marcmb Yeah! I was rather surprised honestly that I got as much as I did lol. Finding out there is a Stealth(ish) build for using the saw is actually funny and cool as hell. Definitely going to look into building myself a stealth(ish) saw build!!
Overkill Software is just gonna watch this video and decide to make a genuinely impossible to ECM Rush heist just to spite Marc like how they watched his video for the stealth Counterfeit tutorial Like I said; the Alesso Heist seems like a Golden Grin Casino scenario where there's a bunch of stuff that has to be lined up straight before it can be done (And I'm talking before that one particular camera was unloopable, you know the one) and as it turns out, that was exactly the case Surprised Alesso could be ECM Rushed, but even Achilles had his weakness I guess you could say, but great video as always
Hi there WizardCraft! Happy to hear you enjoyed it, and glad the result surprised you! I would love it if the devs continued to make heists "100% impossible to ECM rush, by design" (but "only 99% impossible" when you consider some tricks), because it makes planning these rushes a lot more entertaining! When you mentioned the Golden Grin rush, I assumed you meant the cop kiting one, based on your description, yup! Luckily this one isn't as finicky, but it's definitely up there in difficulty! Really fun strategy to plan and then pull off.
There's a difference between counterfeit stealth and ECM rushing alesso ECM Alesso takes skill, teamwork, timing, speed, etc and is very hard to do, just for a normal payout Counterfeit stealth is placing two bodybags for infinite money
@@hazeltree7738 That doesn't change how they tried to prevent people from stealthing the heist and failed miserably, like it was designed to be impossible to stealth, they updated it, and gave birth to a new meta for stealth counterfeit Which that was the point I was going for with the Counterfeit and Alesso comparison
*@Hazel Tree* - They're completely different yup! Although Counterfeit stealth printing was never about the infinite money, and more about the infinite XP, that's why they attempted to patch it with the release of Infamy 500 :p Although like *@WizardCraft* said, that's not exactly the point he was trying to make, although they are indeed undeniably different!
14:10 would it not be possible to do it less efficiently, in terms of the start, by having one person take out the camera guard and lesving one of the kitchen guards alive temporarily?
@@Marcmb your ecm rushes help me finding out about heists gimmicks, I play stealth alone so for me ECM is when theres an objective straight to the end. It helps me find out when can I ignore everything and one snap for 1 minute to the extraction of the heist
@@holmesholmes.8784 Nice! Great to hear these videos help you like that :) Indeed, full heist rushing is not viable solo, but when you know that you can zoom through a final section with no risk at all, it's still very useful information!
For the cam guard you could just kill and answer his pager with the cost of one clear kitchen and extra risk to fail though the kitchen will be irrelevant later when ecm rushing.
That is correct yup! We considered this approach as well, but we wanted a strategy that would succeed 100% of the time, so putting all the pressure on the one player that couldn't afford to clear his kitchen felt a bit unfair to them :D
Solution: break into camera room before first step, answer the pager. Or: Get a 3rd person with 2 ecms (why do you have a guy carrying first aid kits anyway) and just place an ecm before you go into civilian mode.
Good idea on paper but it wouldn't always work, because to ensure 100% success rate we kill the 4 guards in the kitchen areas, so that we can always get all C4 without any chance of messing up. If you use 1 pager on cameras then one of the 4 players needs to play sneaky without being spotted, and that creates room for error that you always want to avoid while ECM rushing :p
Very good suggestion, Floppa! In the near future I'm also gonna start ECM rushing the smaller heists, for the sake of completion, although I wanted to start with the bigger ones since these are a lot more challenging :D
@@Marcmb you can basically do all the small ones in a video. the normal bank heists are ecm rushable by 1 player. because all of the lower banks only have 4 pagers max so you dont need any more ecms after you answered the final pager. with go bank having the shootable cams and the other bank having the camera operator.
For sure yeah! The smaller ones like Bank Heist can be grouped together, Jewelry Store and Ukrainian Job... but those are very very small heists, which are almost too simple. By "small" heists I meant things which can be easily ECM rushed with just 8 ECMs, with a difficulty level around Breakfast in Tijuana or FWB... not sure what those heists would be though, because I don't have a full list yet: for now I'm just rushing the ones that I find interesting! :D
That awesome. Great vid and that coordination and strategies. I personally hate this heist not gonna lie. Because i tried duo stealth with my brother and at final after unmask going loud because that camera guys......we tried to stealth and restart so many times at this point so i dont care anymore and finish the heist. Me and my lil brother never doing this heist again after that.
Thank you very much, Dynasty devil! Glad you liked the rush, and the evolution of the strategy throughout the different attempts :) It's definitely a tricky heist when you do it in the regular stealth way, until you get used to it. As for the camera guy, he also gave us a lot of trouble haha! He single-handedly ruined at least 2 of the strategies we had for the rush...
@@Marcmb No, thank you for showing for putting out such a masterclass in coordination. I love this community, mostly because it's a fairly old game and ideas like this are still being made
@@Marcmb Well you do in abundance friend. Payday 2 is lucky to have creators such as yourself and the crew you do this stuff with. I look forward to seeing how you fair in Payday 3 (^_^)
Hi again Saibot! I'm not sure what you mean on this one, I can't see the exact frame where it happens. But no, the answer is no :) PCMs recharge every 100s, and ECMs do not recharge although you might see them popping in and out from the HUD if players press X while holding a second deployable!
this must be very weird for the camera operator. first 20 seconds of not working cams and 4 guards and 4 civs are suddenly on pager vacation. then another 6 and a half minutes of snow and suddenly all guards are gone
Hahaha true! A camera loop would make sense at least, but after such a long duration of ECMs not working, you would expect him to start suspecting something :D
Oh hi Marc! I have a question about doors and pager delay. I don't think that this would be practucal due to how hard the heist is, but can you saw the door if you'll drop the ECM chain for a short amount of time, using the pager delay? If this is possible, then it might be a way to pass kitchen problems with c4s and exits. ------ Also I tried to write something about how great your videos are in general, but this one is truly mindbreaking, I have no words
Hi Danilkin! First of all, happy to hear you've been enjoying the videos, and this one in particular too. Thank you very much! As for your question, this is actually related to a very interesting concept that could be used in very advanced rushes. If you have a very small amount of guards alerted & alive, you can definitely create downtime on purpose between your PCMs or ECMs, in order to unlock certain objectives during the downtime. For example, here, if there was an available window (where the end of a PCM lines up with no calls from any of the guards, for example) we could go for a short intentional downtime to open 4 doors simultaneously, assuming everyone was using saw builds. However, to answer your question, once the guards are dead, the trick no longer works. Unlike phone calls, which have a very clear point where they begin, and a point where they set off the alarm if there's no ECM, pagers waiting to go off have a hidden completely random delay. Thus, even a single frame of downtime might be enough for any number of pagers to go off, so intentional downtime is no longer a safe option. Hope that clears it up! :D
@@Marcmb yep, very clear answer, thank you! Also, do you have any thoughts about using RNG manipulation mod, like the one PD2 speedruners use to simulate a perfect Alesso rush? (Maximum possible pager delay time, known position of guards, C4s, kitchen and pyros)
You're welcome! I don't think RNG Modifier can be used to alter pager delays and guard position, but you could definitely make the C4 and the pyros a lot faster. You could also choose the position of the vaults to make the cutter placement faster, so a run going for the theoretical fastest time (modified) would be quite interesting too!
At least with Yacht heist, OVK tried to make it feel like the mechanics that prevent ecm rushing had some logic behind them, but here it's "This ordinary supply closet door becomes immune to lockpicking and high powered saws when there's an ecm jammer active somewhere." What fucking nonsense OVK
Very true, the total immunity to saw damage doesn't make much sense. The Yacht heist, on the other hand, had its anti-ECM rush mechanics done very elegantly... I guess for this one they had to compromise, for balance reasons!
Definitely, Desher! We were very very close to giving up, when all our strategies kept failing at the very end for different reasons... Finally we were able to fully optimize it, and came up with a strategy that was able to do it reliably. Really happy that we kept going rather than giving up :D
Very good question, Paul! Considering no one had attempted (or pulled off) the rush before this, a big part of the rush was in fact coming up with a strategy, which ended up being mostly about dealing with the camera guard. While this would have been a valid suggestion, there are a few issues with this alternative: (1) in order to make the rush 100% reliable, we had to take out the 4 kitchen guards, to ensure there was no risk of getting caught (and no need to play sneaky) regardless of the C4 spawns. Thus, we had no pager to spare to take out the cams, so this strategy wouldn't really be viable in a 100% reliable rush! (2) when the camera room spawns in the main lobby, it's very tricky to get in there and take him out! And also, depending on RNG pathing, you would need to wait for a good opportunity to enter the room, creating another opportunity for the rush to fail. (3) furthermore, with one player inside the camera room, they would be unavailable to check their kitchen, so someone would need to get there somehow (preferably without needing to sneak around, otherwise the rushes become unreliable on the first step if things go wrong during the sneaking), so this would require more changes to the overall strategy!
I've seen this video a thousand times, but just now I realise that no one takes back the seven dollars. But as it says in the timeline, "If this doesn't work, nothing will" So sad.
Haha! It would've been nice to reclaim the $7 (they are ours, after all!), but unfortunately it's an interaction which is only available in loud... So even though we were loudly running around, and killing everyone, the game wouldn't allow us to place the 10th C4 on the parking machine, because we were still in stealth!
Hi, I'm back, idk how many times I've seen this Rush, but today I was thinking: "If the main problem was the Cam-guy's pager, what if two heister just rush to his room, kill him letting his pager to go off and answer him (+ any other pager), and then continuing with the ECMs. And, of course, this strategy allows Second Wind :)
@@XA_Live Welcome back Aleh! Glad you enjoyed this rush so much :D that's good to see! I will reply in detail, because I see you're very interested. As a GENERAL STRATEGY (if the rush ever became meta for XP farming), you want the maximum chance of success: the most reliable strategy. Since we need to sneak around the 4 kitchens to find the C4 (before the rush can start), the best way to do that is by taking out the 4 guards, one in each kitchen. Using 1 pager on cams would mean you still have a guard roaming a kitchen... so what happens if the heister in that kitchen messes up, gets spotted, and now you have to restart...? Basically, for XP farming and things like that, you always want the more reliable strategies! While your suggestion would indeed allow for Second Wind, there is an even better workaround for that: you could bring a grenade launcher with incendiary rounds, which have a tiny sound radius of about ~15m, while also allowing you to trigger Second Wind! Basically like a molotov. However I didn't want to complicate it too much, because adding more new tasks to the SW heisters in the crew, would've complicated this very complex rush even more!
This has def got the be the hardest one yet big props for making it work! Just 2 things tho 1-would duping the cutter help in any way with making this faster? i'd assume so although it's pretty random it can shave off some time right 2-i actually thought what you would end up doing was just killing the camera operator instead of one of the kitchen guards, i mean if he's the ONLY one who cannot despawn then that made the most sense to me, with him out of the equation you can kill everyone else after planting the C4. Of course this depends on where exactly the camera guy spawns and it can def be tricky but with the silent saw trick it could work i think? Unless maybe you get the entry hall cam guard spawn..
Thank you very much Alex! And you are 100% correct: I thought this one would be slightly easier than the Casino rush, but once I learnt that the camera guy does not despawn, and he kept ruining all our strategies, it quickly went up in the rankings and now I'd say it's top 1 in difficulty. Your 2 points are definitely very good! - Regarding the first one: Absolutely, duplicating the cutter (or even triplicating it if lucky, considering we have 3 heisters in the basement at all times) would save A LOT of time. However, we wanted a strategy that was 100% reproducible for the rush (without luck/random factors), and considering how tight the timing for the rush was, duplicating the cutters went a bit against that. Although in the future maybe I'll challenge myself, and find a crew who wants to pull this off, with the bonus of duplicating cutters, and going for all loot rather than just 12 bags :p - Regarding the second one: while taking him out would certainly solve the "main" issue of the rush, and the silent saw trick makes it easier than it would be otherwise, there are three issues with the suggestion, mostly related to how reliable the rush is regardless of RNG: (1) in order to make the rush 100% reliable, we had to take out the 4 kitchen guards, to ensure there was no risk of getting caught (and no need to play sneaky) regardless of the C4 spawns. Thus, we had no pager to spare to take out the cams, so this strategy wouldn't really be viable in a 100% reliable rush! (2) when the camera room spawns in the main lobby, it's very tricky to get in there and take him out! And also, depending on RNG pathing, you would need to wait for a good opportunity to enter the room, creating another opportunity for the rush to fail. (except for the middle room spawn, which is always 100% safe, but it's only 1 of 3 spawns, so again reliability issue) (3) furthermore, with one player inside the camera room, they would be unavailable to check their kitchen, so someone would need to get there somehow (preferably without needing to sneak around, otherwise the rushes become unreliable on the first step if things go wrong during the sneaking), so this would require more changes to the overall strategy!
@@Marcmb mmm gotcha 100% reproducible strategy makes the extra work too much I get ittt Although I'd say that even if one heister is stuck in the cam room the one who is clearing the downstair kitchens can just do most of the work himself since they're connected easily, marking the one guard left even just once (or you can even place a quick trip mine) should be enough I think especially if you go Red Squares which offers some decent cover in the backside, and with cams being dead you don't even have to worry about them! And I mean since you're not even using the ECMs at this point and just pockets the possible delay for opening the doors won't be anything to worry about. That being said I can see that it's not as clean as your version. If the camera room spawns upstairs it can mess up the flow of the 2 heisters doing upstairs kitchens, you'd really just have to have one person strictly assigned to cams uhmm Would be cool to try out tho except that I just play solo ahah
It's all about reproducibility yup. Your modified suggestion is also very good: having one heister doing the whole downstairs, and two heisters doing the two separate kitchens upstairs, and finally one heister doing cams. However, this creates two new issues: (1) waiting a while until you can safely mark the guard who is left alive in the downstairs kitchen (and then going in while avoiding him) will indeed be very safe, but with his random pathing he might take a few minutes until he finally allows you to saw open all 5 doors, and if there's a single mistake by the player doing that, the rush is over! (2) sometimes 4-5 C4s spawn in the 10 green closets downstairs (e.g., our last run in the video). If a single heister ends up with too much C4, placing them takes a really long time: while 3 placed simultaneously takes 4s, placing 3 in a row by a single heister takes about 13s. Considering our full speed Second Wind run only had 12s to spare at the end, a situation like that would also fail the rush with no chance to recover. Overall I think it wouldn't be as reliable, but if the strategy with the custom PCM order hadn't worked, this would definitely become a very good strategy, and 100% worth pursuing! Basically this is what we've been doing these past few weeks: someone suggests a strategy to solve our current problem, and everyone else evaluates it! :D
@@Marcmb Yep it's basically a more situational strategy I guess,if the camera room is upstairs you can just have 1 heister with a saw get that open and then resume to looking through the C4 with the other upstairs heister. Actually thinking about it since you don't need to roam upstairs to move bags it might be more convenient to instead leave one guard upstairs alive! My memory isn't the best with Alesso Heist but either way I'm sure the kitchen areas upstairs aren't as big as the ones downstairs (really you could just look at whichever kitchen area seems to easiest to navigate of the two and pick that one to leave with 1 guard) This gives complete access to downstairs and saves a pocket because everyone will wait for the cam guy to be killed so after that you can just blast the downstairs guards away. It's very situational and depends on the camera room spawns but if at least one player upstairs and one downstairs bring a saw then it's viable. If the camera room is downstairs it might be way harder and need a stationary guy in there. So in short uhh If camera room upstairs near the stairs then one of the two players assigned to that area brings a saw,kills the camera guy and easy work in just evading one of the guards in the kitchens. If camera room near pyro booth then similarly one of the players brings a saw and gets in there quickly (now I don't remember precisely but there might be a chance for civs to spawn there? If so that can be a problem..) either way the rest follows as the one above and the person in camera room just has to carefully make his way back to the upstair kitchens (this is indeed very RNG dependant) If camera room downstairs one player gets assigned to that area and remains in it until it's safe to kill everyone,if too much C4 happens to be all downstairs then I guess you can just notify the others and wait before picking it all up? Overall it's a bit messy and situational plus needs more coordination in chat but maybeeeee 😬 (I can definitely see it working very easily if the camera room spawns near big stairs tho I can say that) I think the advantage of not having to worry about cams could be worth it but I would have to do some checking myself I guess I'm too invested in it to give up aha
Definitely very situational! The main problem is that many of these situations require sneaking around from point A to point B to make up for the change in strategy. While sneaking around is easy, especially as the host, many situations would fail when the ping is high, or the player can't locate all the guards before moving out (can't really wait forever to play it safe during an ECM rush, or it ruins the point of the rush!), or if they move recklessly and get spotted... and whenever there's a mistake in the sneaking the whole rush has to be restarted! Overall, for a rush strategy you want the maximum reliability (no restarts at all for any RNG reasons), but something like this could definitely be pulled off, if only to showcase the alternative strategy once! And as I said this would 100% been the alternative direction, if the more reliable alternative didn't work out :)
this would require some luck but during the ECM rush while one of you goes up have them use a sniper to wall bang the camera guard so that he despawns, you would have to have everyone run a sniper (preferably the Bernetti Rangehitter as it is the highest conceal sniper that can pierce walls) and hope that the camera spawns but it would allow you to run with the second wind boost, just an idea but im no good at ECM rushing in this game
Hey Drake! Unfortunately one of our issues was that the camera guard did not despawn during the run, so killing him even with a sniper weapon would fail the rush :( 100 points for the idea though: anything involving sniper kills in stealth is always very cool!
As much as I admire the fact that you 4 actually managed to pull it off this way, realistically the main issue at hand could've easily been solved by killing the camera operator and answering his pager before starting the rush. No active cameras, no pager going off, no problems.
also, the camera room has different spawns and it's very risky to kill him, and after the rush starts you won't be able to respond to your pager, this killing solution ends up bringing more problems
This would've been a very interesting suggestion, FazHound! In fact, when attempting these types of "impossible" or "never-attempted-before" rushes, a big part of the rush is thinking about it, and coming up with a strategy. However, as *@amitzohar* and *@gabriel* pointed out before me, in order to make the rush 100% reliable, we had to take out the 4 kitchen guards, to ensure there was no risk of getting caught (and no need to play sneaky) regardless of the C4 spawns. Thus, we had no pager to spare to take out the cams, so this strategy wouldn't really be viable in a 100% reliable rush! Not to mention of course, that when the camera room spawns in the main lobby, it's very tricky to get in there and take him out! (and also depending on RNG pathing you would need to wait for a good opportunity to enter the room; one player would be unavailable to check their kitchen, creating more "holes" in the strategy; etc)
Hi DansPlay! That would be very nice, indeed... unfortunately the ECM feedback stun has a chance to fail (percentage based depending on the enemy unit), so it would be very tricky.
![[PAYDAY 2] Mythbusting: Can Hoxton Revenge be ECM rushed?](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/rVNBGYvlyxY/mqdefault.jpg)
![[PAYDAY 2] Mythbusting: Can Hoxton Revenge be ECM rushed?](/img/tr.png)
![[PAYDAY 2] Can THE Diamond be fully ECM rushed? || ECMs only, all loot challenge](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/iviRoQVUuEA/mqdefault.jpg)
![[PAYDAY 2] Mythbusting: Can the White House be ECM rushed?](/img/n.gif)
Next challenge: can you create DIY jammers and ecm rush a bank IRL?
That sounds like a mutator for 10 times the reward, plus 10 times the difficulty. I'm in! :p
@@Marcmb ayo me too! I can be the Jimmy of the squad!
@DeadRealDude ah GTA. We need Trevor Philips in Payday 2.
@@Marcmb no restart button tho. you have only one chance
Marcmb would be in Bain’s position in this case, I feel.
You guys are coordinated enough to rob a real bank at this point.
Haha thanks Aquajet! Glad you liked the coordination on this one :)
Hahaha I agree
They probably did
Don’t give them ideas
@LuckyFrosty13 Thats what you want us to think ;)
I would say it was a pleasure doing this with you but that would be a lie! This heist is an utter nightmare! Great vid once again marc!
Hahaha thank you Cookie! Thanks for staying with us through all this torture. Finally we found a strategy that didn't fail at the very end, so I would say this was 100% worth it in exchange for being the first to finally pull this off! :D
@@Marcmb Definitely worth it! Though at the time, with the amount of times we were so close and failed, it sure didn't feel worth it 🤣! Thankfully with Gabriel's research and our perserverance, we finally managed to complete it!
Ngl i would enjoy this torture :D
@@MartinSK44 trust me, it's an absolute nightmare 🤣
@@cookieape6664 ItWasBob can confirm that i am a huge masochist :D
honestly the amount of coordination that is required for something like this probably ends up making the heist harder than a legitimate stealth run. it's insane watching such small details make such a big difference.
Haha thanks Frost! Pretty true to be honest: for us it was more like a challenge run (to see if the heist could be ECM rushed), but the amount of planning and coordination it requires makes it much harder than a regular stealth run (which is kind of the opposite of what you would expect of a rush haha!). Although at least, after everyone has learnt their roles, then the rush is much easier and especially faster than the regular stealth approach, as one would expect :)
This is just the perfect coordination. I would not have this much patience for it
Thanks a lot Dreamer, glad you enjoyed this one too!!
Indeed, this one took A LOT of patience: so many changes in the strategy, and so many attempts to perfect each of the strategies, just to find out that they didn't work!
I was really waiting for a strat that involved killing guards to decrease the pECM cooldown to make the rush doable... awesome job guys!
Thank you very much Harablo, glad you liked that! I honestly never thought I would see a rush where the kill distribution was so important (because generally all you want is the maximum ECM rush time, regardless of the order), but surprisingly on this one the order was very important :D
Fun Fact: If playing in VR you can actually place C4 without the forklift. A centered jump right below the C4 will get you close enough to start the interaction, and VR will also gives extra room so the interaction isn't canceled by the distance.
You will still need the forklift for the saws though
Ooh I had no idea Pix, that's very interesting! Really really interesting. Having 3 heisters with C4 doing the basement would definitely speed this up then :D
I'll definitely have to check it out in the future, if I ever get a full VR crew (even though I don't even have VR myself yet haha)
@@Marcmb I have experience in VR. It's not much, but its _something._
The major limitation in playing in VR is fatigue. Given that I am not slim at all, I get physically tired after some time. If you're not like me, this limitation will most likely not be as bad, but it might still affect you. Looking past that *and* motion sickness...
VR was _made_ to be advantageous over desktop gameplay:
1. Some skills have additional "VR only" benefits. I have forgotten what these skills are (and apply to), though, as I have not played PD2 in VR in a long time.
2. Assuming you are right-handed, you can use your left hand to do tasks (such as lockpick a door open) _while_ having the ability to shoot with the gun in your right hand. You can't reload while doing a task, though.
3. VR has improved mobility. Some areas that are too high on desktop, _might_ be in-reach in VR. That is, you use click-to-move rather than smooth locomotion.
4. Dynamic reloading allows you to reload your guns early. Not sure how useful that is for stealthing, but definitely handy for some specific situations. The drawback, though, is that your magazine will only be partially full.
There might be more things I'm missing or have misremembered, but having not played PD2 in VR for a long time, that's the best information I can share. Of course, there are PD2 VR videos on YT that can be watched also to get a better idea of how it is to play the game in VR.
Other than that, I have nothing else to say. Best of luck.
Thanks for the thorough list, Unkanow! I had heard only about #2, but I didn't know about the rest. It would be really cool to make VR PAYDAY2 videos in the future, so I'll definitely have to make some research before that.
Although for now I don't even have a VR device (and I've never used one), so it's definitely a plan for the far future!
@@Marcmb biggest problem with VR is the typing in chat - it's sooo incredibly slow, because you have to aim with one of your controllers at a virtual keyboard from SteamVR (it's basically typing with 1 finger on a real keyboard) + the keyboard is buggy and sometimes just doesn't send the message if you hit 'enter'. so if this will ever be done with a VR-crew, you'd definitely have to use voice chat to coordinate things.
@@Marcmb Doesnt that mean its possible to loop camera at entrance of security in golden grin casino older versions? this should be interesting
this feels like something you'd have to do to get a secret achievement just from the routing and preplanning, great job!
That would be really cool! There's no ways the devs thought about it though, because from their perspective it was 100% impossible :p
Glad you liked the plan, thank you very much! :D
please no, i don't need more 4player achievements😭
I was a little late for the premiere but holy shit man you actually did it. I can just imagine the amount of runs you did before hand. Overkill should definitely acknowledge this in some way.
No worries Zer0! Glad you enjoyed it :D They might acknowledge it by patching it, who knows hahaha!
This did indeed take a lot of runs, mainly because most of our strategies (after a few attempts to optimize and perfect them) ended up failing at the very end (usually because of things related to the camera operator), so definitely many attempts!
@@Marcmb make it an achievement.
Kappa
Haha that would be very cool too! Or a simpler trophy, since that's easier to implement. Very unlikely to happen though, not sure...
marc: bain, wich loot drop-off we will need to use?
bain: hang on...Right aand Left
Hahaha! I was wondering where this comment was going, and it caught me off-guard at the end. Definitely got me, 10/10!
Poor Bain, he's so useless sometimes :D
I knew how this one would work because I’ve experienced the pager deletion in a normal run. After spending hours grinding this heist (idk why it’s just a really hard one for me) I finally got to the unmask step but got detected right before I got into the unmask room, but I had no pagers left. Killed the guard, feeling super defeated, and walked into the room. Then the pager despawned. That was the happiest I have been playing payday ever. Loved the video and remembering the memory!
Yup, that's exactly right Bubba! From the very beginning, our plan was to use the despawn mechanic when unmasking to be able to finish the rush... that's why I was so confident when we reached the unmasking on our plan A run, that I typed "safe" in the chat...
Then it turned out that the despawning does not apply to the camera operator, and things became a lot trickier! :D
now waiting for "Is Schackletorne auction able to ECM rush?", because your videos are always enjoyable to watch :)
Thank you Ano Nim! That one will definitely be done in the future :D Glad you're still enjoying the videos, I appreciate it a lot!
i love how many different people this game has: Loud pros, Stealth pros (You, Marcmb!), game mechanics pros, modding pros, even mask customzation pros. GG's, awesome run!
Haha thank you TARE, very kind of you! And I'm glad you enjoyed the run, much appreciated! :D
You and your crew are absolute legends for seeing this through until the end, respect!
Thank you very much nick! We were definitely commited to eventually seeing it through, especially after being so close after each different strategy...
The fact that this is even possible blows my mind. Doesn’t look like anything I’d have the patience for, but super fun to watch!
Glad you had fun watching this one Beefjerky, thank you very much! It did take a lot of patience, indeed. When our strategies kept failing at the very end, we were ready to give up and call it impossible... but luckily our final strategy worked flawlessly :D
Holy shit this is nuts. The level of coordination you guys have as a team to be able to pull this off is beyond me. I tried this heist in DS with a friend a couple days ago and we failed again, and again, trying to navigate these kitchens with guards and civs. Eventually we pulled it off in stealth after another day of trying, but just barely. I would never attempt something like this though, this is just insane, well done
Thanks so much Dynamic! Glad you enjoyed the coordination on this one :)
Congratulations on the stealth completion for you and your friend! This one felt quite insane indeed on the day that we pulled it off. We were about to give up because so many strategies kept failing :D
The *camera operator* just built different than other guards!
It's funny how just 1 guy could complicated the ECM rush strategy
Haha exactly! He really tried his best to ruin the entire rush, pretty much the entire strategy-making revolved around him!
you broke my mind once more… i would have never dreamed of this marcmb! good video as usual!
Thanks a lot Kaan, glad you liked the strategy, the rush and the video! Happy to hear that, much appreciated :)
So planned out and so calculated. Really makes it feel like you guys discussed the plan in a dimly lit room with the floorplan on the table.
Haha pretty much! Glad you liked it, Bryan :)
Considering we had 3 strategies which failed at the very end for reasons related to the rush time, or the camera operator, this did take a lot of discussion: someone would bring up a possible strategy, and the rest of the crew would look for its weak points, ways to improve it, etc :p It was really fun!
great video Marc! Very fun recording it although the cam guy was a pain in the ass :D
Thank you h3ll! Indeed, that cam guy was a real pain, he forced us to change strategy at least 2 or 3 times... finally we found a way around him though, and it was 100% worth the effort :D
i had completely forgot that the pECM cooldown decrease could apply in stealth too, since you never notice it occuring in normal playthroughs! this was an insane video to watch, i never knew how ECM-unfriendly Alesso was; i always assumed it would be a straightforward one with just time management for the pyrotechnics. fantastic job!
Hi there ent! Glad you liked the rush, thank you very much :)
Indeed, I never thought there would be an ECM rush where the cooldown mechanic would be important (because generally you only care about the total time, not the exact order), but this one turned out to be the exception!
And indeed, the rush was quite tricky. Very challenging stuff, but really fun! :D
This is freaking insane! Hell yeah! I couldn’t believe it until I saw the very end, had my mouth drop and everything!
Haha thank you very much, Dereck, that's great to hear! Glad you enjoyed it, much appreciated :)
You're the smartest person I've ever seen in PD2. Not only come up with a complicated plan, but you even change it mid-game... Awesome guide.
:D Thank you very much, that's very kind of you! Glad you're enjoying the content, much appreciated :)
Absolutely stunning. I dread to imagine a rush that could be harder than this, incredible job
Thank you very much Demvare, glad you liked it! :D
I agree with you completely: as of right now, I consider this to be the hardest ECM rush in the entire game, even harder than the Golden Grin Casino. I guess only time will tell if there's a harder one!
That's a lot of work and stress for this challenge, good job. My hands are wet because i was worrying for you at the end. Perfect execution.
Thank you very much! It was indeed very stressful when we finally pulled it off. We had no idea if it was gonna succeed or not :D
Wow.... just wow.... the research, the coordination... everything. Amazing to watch. Huge pull off. As always, outstanding job. Thanks for bringing this to the comunity
Thanks a lot for the very nice comment, Héctor! Very kind of you, glad you enjoyed it so much :) I appreciate it a lot!
„Hello, Overkill Studios, this is Almir speaking“
…
„They did WHAT?!? The entire Heist?? But that‘s impossible! We did everything to make it that way! Noooooooooooooooooooooo…“
Hahaha sorry Almir! While it makes a lot of sense to design heists that are impossible to ECM rush, finding ways around it makes it 100 times more fun! I'm looking forward to future heists having even more anti-ECM rush mechanics, to have more challenging stuff to do :p
@@Marcmb U should try the newest Dragon heist
I've played that one, yup! Haven't had a chance to play the newer one Ukrainian Prisoner though, unfortunately :(
As for the Dragon Heist, it's my favorite out of all the new heists so far! I love stealthing it, and I even made a video for all achievements in a single duo run. I personally like it a lot, so I might do an Ultimate Stealth Guide in the future, and an ECM rush video too! :D
@@Marcmb Thank you.
I can ECM rush, but this right here is art
Haha thank you very much, frostie! Glad you liked it, much appreciated :)
Such a good video - so entertaining. Good job! I love the colour co-ordinated text you put on the screen
Thank you very much, superchickenmilk! Glad you liked it, and the colored text too! I feel like it helps when connecting certain actions to certain heisters, especially when there might not be much time to read the text :)
when i started watching this i was wondering if this was a way to make alesso heist actually interesting but it just seems more stressful than usual haha
as always, you guys do a great job at organizing its really cool to watch!
Haha it is very stressful, yeah! Pretty much everyone needs to know the strategy, and it'll take a bit of practice. For players who enjoy ECM rushing, it would be fun to attempt, but in general it's just a very hard strategy!
Glad you liked it raven, thank you! :D
You are INSANE, guys! GG on doing this incredible task. I was actually shocked and very happy, when you pulled it off! You deserve a LOT more subs for the hard work that you do
Thanks a lot for the very nice comment Sitman, I appreciate it a lot! Glad you enjoyed the rush, and seeing us pull it off :)
I do have to say, that I have a lot more subscribers than I ever expected (so I couldn't ask for more!), but still, thanks a lot for the kind words! :D
Your videos are like gems on the TH-cam. They are very well edited, fun to watch and also very useful! Keep going man.
That's very kind of you demo main, thank you very much! I'll definitely do my best to keep it up :D
Really clever way of doing it, I discovered the despawn mechanic when you unmask by accident a time ago, always thought it could be done for a rush. Nice vid!
Thank you very much juan, glad you liked it! Indeed, the main part of our strategy relied completely on the despawn mechanic. Surprisingly, it did not apply to the camera operator, and that forced us to rethink the strategy a few times. Overall, this rush was very entertaining to plan :D
Soon overkill will add 6 minutes drills into every heist just to stop your rampage
Haha that would be a very thorough way to make them impossible to rush! In the past, they used to do that with objectives lasting 4 minutes (Big Bank's timelock, the ship moving for Bomb: Dockyard...) but nowadays even those are easily ECM'd through by adding Pocket ECMs! :D
i mean, this rush also wouldnt be possible if the activation of the demask zone would be jammed. (which is far more logical than saw immune doors.)
For sure! I was surprised to find that you can make the call to unmask, even when ECMs are active. A pleasant surprise! :D
I really enjoy these unique ECM rush videos, it's interesting to see how they're done
That's great to hear Creeper, glad you're enjoying these! Thank you very much :)
@@MarcmbYou're welcome
I am amazed that you have perfect coordination just using text chat, gg and thanks for the amazing content
Thanks Wizmor! Glad you're enjoying the content :) I invited 3 very very talented rushers for this one, because it was gonna be my hardest rush so far, and it went really smooth with just text! :D
Marcmb: ECM Rushing leads to powers some deem unnatural
Audience: is it possible to learn this power?
Hahaha! With great power comes great responsibility, but this one is definitely possible to learn! :D
Those are some high tech locks that they make a door saw-proof when the powers off
Indeed! Not sure if it makes a lot of sense, but it is certainly high tech! :D
how the actual, marc i dont know how the hell you come with these wizardry strats, but i will say one thing, you’re a master at it. GG
Haha thank you Striker! This one was specially fun to rush because it had so many things getting in the way and requiring changes of strategy. Really fun to plan and execute; glad you liked it! :D
I knew it that you and you crew can change the reality
:D Thank you very much, Kapi! Thanks for having faith, and I'm glad we were able to live up to the expectations! :p
The absolute madmen of heisters, will they ever be stopped?
Probably if Overkill tweaks the heists more, but it's still damn impressive.
Great job!
Hey TacticalBananas! Glad you liked this one too, thank you very much! :D
In the future we might get a heist that is 100% impossible to ECM rush. Only time will tell! :p
I feel like full hacker crew ecm rush is the most realistic way to do stealth heist. Unlike sneakily running around while you exposed your whole body to someone
I definitely agree, Villager, glad you think so as well! The stealth system is fun, but not very realistic: all the suspicious things that get ignored by security don't make sense at all. On the other hand, going in fast while delaying communications, and getting out asap, is way more realistic for a heist!
Very nice video just shows how much effort you guys put into it.👍
Thanks a lot, Bob! Glad you liked it, much appreciated :D
ok I'll be honest I absolutely didn't believe it was going to be possible when you made that community post, very impressive. guessing it took a lot of tries we don't see though ;)
Hi again Graknorke! Glad we were able to surpass your expectationg, and happy to hear you enjoyed the rush! :D
It did take a loot of tries, especially because our first strategies were failing as soon as we reached the camera operator. For each strategy showcased here, we definitely needed quite a few attempts to optimize it to reach the end quickly enough, only to find out that the strategy didn't work out :D
I really thought they would give up half way but then I remembered who I‘m watching😉
Haha we actually almost gave up, Avian! We were needing so many strategy changes, and so many small optimizations, etc, that we almost gave up and considered it impossible. Finally we managed to find a reliable strategy that worked, and it was 100% worth it!! :D
this was an amazing guide and thanks to you, the impossible ecm rush is possible
Thank you officialgamet! Glad you liked it, and indeed, the Impossible ECM Rush is no more :D
i have a feeling it might be possible just because you made a video on it :D
:D Thanks for having faith, Jav! And hopefully you enjoyed the strategy, and the outcome of this mythbusting session!
The mad lad did it again. Really impressive!
:D Thank you very much kitandrei, glad you liked it!!
this looks a lot more entertaining than vanilla stealth, i hope payday 3 takes cues from your ecm rushes
Glad you like the playstyle, gack! It is indeed really cool: more intense than regular stealth, everything has a hard time limit, any mistakes in the chains of ECMs fails the heist instantly... Regular stealth is really fun too, but hopefully all this can stay and be improved for PAYDAY3! :D
Bro, this vid is what I aspire to be at, just got to infamy 6, with the guy I consider a mentor at 98, and, this just blows my mind! keep it up, o7
Thank you very much Dalokes, that's very kind of you! I'll do my best to keep it up :D
marcmb, great video, before watching it. i already know its good :D
Thank you very much, iisnowcreeper! I appreciate that :D
@@Marcmb epic video. Clap
That rng and planning...
It took u awhile.
But in the end,
even if u cant ecm rush,
u will still gain something.
And as always,
congrats for ecm rushing it and thks for creating such a content!
Would like to see more
Thank you very much GreatGuest, glad you enjoyed the journey! I'll definitely make more ECM rush content in the future :D glad you're loving it!
Knew it, y'all just continue to impress.
Thank you very much Brandon! Glad you had faith in the possibility of rushing the heist, and glad you enjoyed it! :D
I didn't even remember that killing enemies reduced the PCM cooldown. Great job!
Glad you liked that, Rodrigo! Usually it's a mechanic that is not used (because the final number of ECMs and PCMs is the same) but in this case we needed to get to that final PCM cycle faster, so it was more interesting than usual! :D
All 4 of you answering pagers at once is pretty funny
Haha! Coordinated takedown of every part of the security :p
SPLENDID work! great job :P
Thanks a lot Jang, glad you liked this one too! :D
the stealth escape seems bugged (in a good way) when going loud, so Plan A might have worked.
What happened: we did a stealth run the normal way. At the very end (we were 3), 2 of my teammates reached the escape, but then I ran into a guard and the heist went loud. The escape area stopped being highlighted but I still went to stand next to my teammates. To our surprise, a few seconds later the heist successfully finished.
Date: 3 weeks ago. (May 2023)
Interesting observation VADemon! I'll test this ingame the next time I play. A long time I was standing at the escape waiting for my crew, but they ran into a guard and, even after coming all the way to me, the escape didn't trigger... There is one good thing though, which is that you can ECM even if the escape zone vanishes, and after about a minute, the van will arrive even if the alarm has not gone off!
Damn, that's the thing what i really did not expected to happen... Even with exception of using 4 pagers it's still quite an achievement!
:D Thank you very much, illu! Indeed, the only way to reliably get past the green closets (which get reinforced during the ECM block, and become immune to even saw damage) was to do a short Pocket ECM rush to take out all 4 kitchen guards (and civs) simultaneously, to then get free reign to grab all the C4. Glad you enjoyed it!!
The question: Can you ECM rush The Alesso Heist?
The answer: Yeah, but you probably shouldn't.
Sounds about right haha! It's very, very very tricky, but with enough training, it's finally possible :D
Once again, the Expert of ECM rushing has cracked yet another tough nut! It's only impossible till you find a strat!
:D Thank you very much Skiller, it's just as you say: only impossible, until suddenly possible! Glad you liked it :)
I'm going to be honest, I don't know how to ECM Rush so idk if you would technically be allowed to stealth prior to doing the rush. But, If you are allowed to stealth prior and for it to count:
Green Closets - Pick them while stealth
Heist Duration - Basically fucking TAS run
To make it even worse - probably pick that before the rush
And to make it *EVEN WORSE* - I've never been able to stealth this successfully, always ended up going loud.
Side note: I've so far only watched up to 4:06 currently and this is just my thoughts
Hey again Angzarr! Very close guesses in each of the points. The most advanced ECM Rush strategies are designed aiming for a 0% chance of failure, so the only difference is that technically we don't stealth for the Green Closets part, instead we use some Pocket ECMs to fully clear all the relevant areas of guards. Everything else you guessed very well! :D
@@Marcmb Yeah! I was rather surprised honestly that I got as much as I did lol. Finding out there is a Stealth(ish) build for using the saw is actually funny and cool as hell. Definitely going to look into building myself a stealth(ish) saw build!!
Overkill Software is just gonna watch this video and decide to make a genuinely impossible to ECM Rush heist just to spite Marc like how they watched his video for the stealth Counterfeit tutorial
Like I said; the Alesso Heist seems like a Golden Grin Casino scenario where there's a bunch of stuff that has to be lined up straight before it can be done (And I'm talking before that one particular camera was unloopable, you know the one) and as it turns out, that was exactly the case
Surprised Alesso could be ECM Rushed, but even Achilles had his weakness I guess you could say, but great video as always
Hi there WizardCraft! Happy to hear you enjoyed it, and glad the result surprised you! I would love it if the devs continued to make heists "100% impossible to ECM rush, by design" (but "only 99% impossible" when you consider some tricks), because it makes planning these rushes a lot more entertaining!
When you mentioned the Golden Grin rush, I assumed you meant the cop kiting one, based on your description, yup! Luckily this one isn't as finicky, but it's definitely up there in difficulty! Really fun strategy to plan and then pull off.
There's a difference between counterfeit stealth and ECM rushing alesso
ECM Alesso takes skill, teamwork, timing, speed, etc and is very hard to do, just for a normal payout
Counterfeit stealth is placing two bodybags for infinite money
@@hazeltree7738 That doesn't change how they tried to prevent people from stealthing the heist and failed miserably, like it was designed to be impossible to stealth, they updated it, and gave birth to a new meta for stealth counterfeit
Which that was the point I was going for with the Counterfeit and Alesso comparison
*@Hazel Tree* - They're completely different yup! Although Counterfeit stealth printing was never about the infinite money, and more about the infinite XP, that's why they attempted to patch it with the release of Infamy 500 :p
Although like *@WizardCraft* said, that's not exactly the point he was trying to make, although they are indeed undeniably different!
Great work, professional work
"Tightest crew ever!"
14:10 would it not be possible to do it less efficiently, in terms of the start, by having one person take out the camera guard and lesving one of the kitchen guards alive temporarily?
well i was today years old when I learned that you can't lock pick the green doors while an ecm is active
Yup! Not only impossible to lock pick, but also completely immune to saw damage. Glad I was able to teach you some useful information! :p
oh god, this is just straight up organized robbery now, not just precise timed ecm rush
Thanks Holmes! Glad you liked the strategy :) It was one of my favorite rushes for this very reason :D
@@Marcmb your ecm rushes help me finding out about heists gimmicks, I play stealth alone so for me ECM is when theres an objective straight to the end. It helps me find out when can I ignore everything and one snap for 1 minute to the extraction of the heist
@@holmesholmes.8784 Nice! Great to hear these videos help you like that :)
Indeed, full heist rushing is not viable solo, but when you know that you can zoom through a final section with no risk at all, it's still very useful information!
heist: exists
this dude: RADIO STATIC INTENSIFIES
Poor heist didn't know what was coming !
The mad lads. Amazing performance.
Thank you very much Zakru! Glad you liked it :D
i am watching respectfully
Thank you wrenny! Hope you enjoyed the rush, respectfully :D
For the cam guard you could just kill and answer his pager with the cost of one clear kitchen and extra risk to fail though the kitchen will be irrelevant later when ecm rushing.
That is correct yup! We considered this approach as well, but we wanted a strategy that would succeed 100% of the time, so putting all the pressure on the one player that couldn't afford to clear his kitchen felt a bit unfair to them :D
sheesh, Marcmb back at it again with the dream team!
:D Glad you liked it, thanks SOFLOW!
Solution: break into camera room before first step, answer the pager.
Or: Get a 3rd person with 2 ecms (why do you have a guy carrying first aid kits anyway) and just place an ecm before you go into civilian mode.
Good idea on paper but it wouldn't always work, because to ensure 100% success rate we kill the 4 guards in the kitchen areas, so that we can always get all C4 without any chance of messing up.
If you use 1 pager on cameras then one of the 4 players needs to play sneaky without being spotted, and that creates room for error that you always want to avoid while ECM rushing :p
cant wait for alesso rush!! :)
Thanks Tetsuu! Hopefully it's gonna be a good one :) Starting soon!!
the next heist overkill adds will have every single objective blocked if theres an ecm at any point (being hyperbolic)
That would be a fantastic challenge! :D
Im only joking. But i can tell they hate the ecm now
Next heist ecm rush idea: see if you can try art gallery or other smaller heists in a video showcasing all that are possible
Very good suggestion, Floppa! In the near future I'm also gonna start ECM rushing the smaller heists, for the sake of completion, although I wanted to start with the bigger ones since these are a lot more challenging :D
@@Marcmb you can basically do all the small ones in a video.
the normal bank heists are ecm rushable by 1 player.
because all of the lower banks only have 4 pagers max so you dont need any more ecms after you answered the final pager. with go bank having the shootable cams and the other bank having the camera operator.
For sure yeah! The smaller ones like Bank Heist can be grouped together, Jewelry Store and Ukrainian Job... but those are very very small heists, which are almost too simple. By "small" heists I meant things which can be easily ECM rushed with just 8 ECMs, with a difficulty level around Breakfast in Tijuana or FWB... not sure what those heists would be though, because I don't have a full list yet: for now I'm just rushing the ones that I find interesting! :D
That awesome. Great vid and that coordination and strategies. I personally hate this heist not gonna lie. Because i tried duo stealth with my brother and at final after unmask going loud because that camera guys......we tried to stealth and restart so many times at this point so i dont care anymore and finish the heist. Me and my lil brother never doing this heist again after that.
Thank you very much, Dynasty devil! Glad you liked the rush, and the evolution of the strategy throughout the different attempts :)
It's definitely a tricky heist when you do it in the regular stealth way, until you get used to it. As for the camera guy, he also gave us a lot of trouble haha! He single-handedly ruined at least 2 of the strategies we had for the rush...
Holy shit they actually did it. well done :D
Thank you very much, v00nderson! It took a few changes of strategy, but we finally found one that works. Glad you liked it! :D
I'm so proud of you Marcmb
Thank you very much, Soviet! Glad you enjoyed this one :)
@@Marcmb I enjoy every video you make, always has an unique and interesting flair, and your explosive personality is always fun to see! :)
Very kind of you, thank you! :D
Now this is cannon Payday gang. Absolute Master hiesters.
Thank you Amicosayshi! Very kind of you :D
@@Marcmb No, thank you for showing for putting out such a masterclass in coordination. I love this community, mostly because it's a fairly old game and ideas like this are still being made
I definitely like innovating, and creating new things. Glad you enjoyed that! :)
@@Marcmb Well you do in abundance friend. Payday 2 is lucky to have creators such as yourself and the crew you do this stuff with. I look forward to seeing how you fair in Payday 3 (^_^)
:D Thank you very much! PAYDAY is easily my favorite game (the only one I play nowadays), so I'll definitely still be around for PAYDAY3!
9:21
Wait did your ammo bag can give to your friends ecm back?
Hi again Saibot! I'm not sure what you mean on this one, I can't see the exact frame where it happens. But no, the answer is no :) PCMs recharge every 100s, and ECMs do not recharge although you might see them popping in and out from the HUD if players press X while holding a second deployable!
Overkill : Ok, I think we manage to make THE impossible to ecm rush heist.
MARCMB and the crew :
Are you sure about that ?
Awesome stuff!
Thank you very much Stelio, glad you liked it! :D
this must be very weird for the camera operator.
first 20 seconds of not working cams and 4 guards and 4 civs are suddenly on pager vacation.
then another 6 and a half minutes of snow and suddenly all guards are gone
Hahaha true! A camera loop would make sense at least, but after such a long duration of ECMs not working, you would expect him to start suspecting something :D
Oh hi Marc!
I have a question about doors and pager delay.
I don't think that this would be practucal due to how hard the heist is, but can you saw the door if you'll drop the ECM chain for a short amount of time, using the pager delay?
If this is possible, then it might be a way to pass kitchen problems with c4s and exits.
------
Also I tried to write something about how great your videos are in general, but this one is truly mindbreaking, I have no words
Hi Danilkin! First of all, happy to hear you've been enjoying the videos, and this one in particular too. Thank you very much!
As for your question, this is actually related to a very interesting concept that could be used in very advanced rushes. If you have a very small amount of guards alerted & alive, you can definitely create downtime on purpose between your PCMs or ECMs, in order to unlock certain objectives during the downtime. For example, here, if there was an available window (where the end of a PCM lines up with no calls from any of the guards, for example) we could go for a short intentional downtime to open 4 doors simultaneously, assuming everyone was using saw builds.
However, to answer your question, once the guards are dead, the trick no longer works. Unlike phone calls, which have a very clear point where they begin, and a point where they set off the alarm if there's no ECM, pagers waiting to go off have a hidden completely random delay. Thus, even a single frame of downtime might be enough for any number of pagers to go off, so intentional downtime is no longer a safe option. Hope that clears it up! :D
@@Marcmb yep, very clear answer, thank you!
Also, do you have any thoughts about using RNG manipulation mod, like the one PD2 speedruners use to simulate a perfect Alesso rush? (Maximum possible pager delay time, known position of guards, C4s, kitchen and pyros)
You're welcome! I don't think RNG Modifier can be used to alter pager delays and guard position, but you could definitely make the C4 and the pyros a lot faster. You could also choose the position of the vaults to make the cutter placement faster, so a run going for the theoretical fastest time (modified) would be quite interesting too!
At least with Yacht heist, OVK tried to make it feel like the mechanics that prevent ecm rushing had some logic behind them, but here it's
"This ordinary supply closet door becomes immune to lockpicking and high powered saws when there's an ecm jammer active somewhere."
What fucking nonsense OVK
Very true, the total immunity to saw damage doesn't make much sense. The Yacht heist, on the other hand, had its anti-ECM rush mechanics done very elegantly... I guess for this one they had to compromise, for balance reasons!
@@Marcmb well they could have just made the last call for the unmasking getting ecm blocked.
Love your videos!
Thank you very much Kappa! Glad you're enjoying them, and hopefully you enjoyed this one as well! :D
@@Marcmb Of course I did!
Just imagine you go through all this just to bump into a guard at the very end
Hahaha! That would be quite funny for a skill issue clip though - so I would say worth it!!
When perseverance pays off.
Definitely, Desher! We were very very close to giving up, when all our strategies kept failing at the very end for different reasons... Finally we were able to fully optimize it, and came up with a strategy that was able to do it reliably. Really happy that we kept going rather than giving up :D
2 seconds in, its a classic
Thank you Read! I tried to go for a very similar intro to all my other impossible ECM rushes, even including the "what if...?" right before the run :p
Never did this heist for now but I gotta do it now
It's a very cool heist, diablo! I recommend my "Ultimate Stealth Guide" if you're gonna be doing solo: it has many useful tips!
Impressive dude unbelievable
Thank you very much, Pannkuchen! Glad you enjoyed it :D
Everyone: you can't ecm Alesso heist.
Mark: *hold my beer*
Haha pretty much! Hope you enjoyed the rush, drunkED, and thank you for watching! :D
@@Marcmb ah glad to see that im not everyone ^^
Indeed! Some of you had faith, and it paid off! :D
Why not use up the camera guys pager before rushing? would that work?
Very good question, Paul! Considering no one had attempted (or pulled off) the rush before this, a big part of the rush was in fact coming up with a strategy, which ended up being mostly about dealing with the camera guard. While this would have been a valid suggestion, there are a few issues with this alternative:
(1) in order to make the rush 100% reliable, we had to take out the 4 kitchen guards, to ensure there was no risk of getting caught (and no need to play sneaky) regardless of the C4 spawns. Thus, we had no pager to spare to take out the cams, so this strategy wouldn't really be viable in a 100% reliable rush!
(2) when the camera room spawns in the main lobby, it's very tricky to get in there and take him out! And also, depending on RNG pathing, you would need to wait for a good opportunity to enter the room, creating another opportunity for the rush to fail.
(3) furthermore, with one player inside the camera room, they would be unavailable to check their kitchen, so someone would need to get there somehow (preferably without needing to sneak around, otherwise the rushes become unreliable on the first step if things go wrong during the sneaking), so this would require more changes to the overall strategy!
@@Marcmb Thanks for the Answer!
No problem! Thanks for the good question :)
I've seen this video a thousand times, but just now I realise that no one takes back the seven dollars.
But as it says in the timeline, "If this doesn't work, nothing will" So sad.
Haha! It would've been nice to reclaim the $7 (they are ours, after all!), but unfortunately it's an interaction which is only available in loud... So even though we were loudly running around, and killing everyone, the game wouldn't allow us to place the 10th C4 on the parking machine, because we were still in stealth!
Hi, I'm back, idk how many times I've seen this Rush, but today I was thinking:
"If the main problem was the Cam-guy's pager, what if two heister just rush to his room, kill him letting his pager to go off and answer him (+ any other pager), and then continuing with the ECMs. And, of course, this strategy allows Second Wind :)
@@XA_Live Welcome back Aleh! Glad you enjoyed this rush so much :D that's good to see! I will reply in detail, because I see you're very interested.
As a GENERAL STRATEGY (if the rush ever became meta for XP farming), you want the maximum chance of success: the most reliable strategy. Since we need to sneak around the 4 kitchens to find the C4 (before the rush can start), the best way to do that is by taking out the 4 guards, one in each kitchen. Using 1 pager on cams would mean you still have a guard roaming a kitchen... so what happens if the heister in that kitchen messes up, gets spotted, and now you have to restart...? Basically, for XP farming and things like that, you always want the more reliable strategies!
While your suggestion would indeed allow for Second Wind, there is an even better workaround for that: you could bring a grenade launcher with incendiary rounds, which have a tiny sound radius of about ~15m, while also allowing you to trigger Second Wind! Basically like a molotov. However I didn't want to complicate it too much, because adding more new tasks to the SW heisters in the crew, would've complicated this very complex rush even more!
everybody gangsta till he says "what if...?"
Haha! Glad you liked the introduction, Slate! I really like doing these intros like this :p
This has def got the be the hardest one yet big props for making it work! Just 2 things tho
1-would duping the cutter help in any way with making this faster? i'd assume so although it's pretty random it can shave off some time right
2-i actually thought what you would end up doing was just killing the camera operator instead of one of the kitchen guards, i mean if he's the ONLY one who cannot despawn then that made the most sense to me, with him out of the equation you can kill everyone else after planting the C4. Of course this depends on where exactly the camera guy spawns and it can def be tricky but with the silent saw trick it could work i think? Unless maybe you get the entry hall cam guard spawn..
Thank you very much Alex! And you are 100% correct: I thought this one would be slightly easier than the Casino rush, but once I learnt that the camera guy does not despawn, and he kept ruining all our strategies, it quickly went up in the rankings and now I'd say it's top 1 in difficulty. Your 2 points are definitely very good!
- Regarding the first one: Absolutely, duplicating the cutter (or even triplicating it if lucky, considering we have 3 heisters in the basement at all times) would save A LOT of time. However, we wanted a strategy that was 100% reproducible for the rush (without luck/random factors), and considering how tight the timing for the rush was, duplicating the cutters went a bit against that. Although in the future maybe I'll challenge myself, and find a crew who wants to pull this off, with the bonus of duplicating cutters, and going for all loot rather than just 12 bags :p
- Regarding the second one: while taking him out would certainly solve the "main" issue of the rush, and the silent saw trick makes it easier than it would be otherwise, there are three issues with the suggestion, mostly related to how reliable the rush is regardless of RNG:
(1) in order to make the rush 100% reliable, we had to take out the 4 kitchen guards, to ensure there was no risk of getting caught (and no need to play sneaky) regardless of the C4 spawns. Thus, we had no pager to spare to take out the cams, so this strategy wouldn't really be viable in a 100% reliable rush!
(2) when the camera room spawns in the main lobby, it's very tricky to get in there and take him out! And also, depending on RNG pathing, you would need to wait for a good opportunity to enter the room, creating another opportunity for the rush to fail. (except for the middle room spawn, which is always 100% safe, but it's only 1 of 3 spawns, so again reliability issue)
(3) furthermore, with one player inside the camera room, they would be unavailable to check their kitchen, so someone would need to get there somehow (preferably without needing to sneak around, otherwise the rushes become unreliable on the first step if things go wrong during the sneaking), so this would require more changes to the overall strategy!
@@Marcmb mmm gotcha 100% reproducible strategy makes the extra work too much I get ittt
Although I'd say that even if one heister is stuck in the cam room the one who is clearing the downstair kitchens can just do most of the work himself since they're connected easily, marking the one guard left even just once (or you can even place a quick trip mine) should be enough I think especially if you go Red Squares which offers some decent cover in the backside, and with cams being dead you don't even have to worry about them! And I mean since you're not even using the ECMs at this point and just pockets the possible delay for opening the doors won't be anything to worry about. That being said I can see that it's not as clean as your version.
If the camera room spawns upstairs it can mess up the flow of the 2 heisters doing upstairs kitchens, you'd really just have to have one person strictly assigned to cams uhmm
Would be cool to try out tho except that I just play solo ahah
It's all about reproducibility yup. Your modified suggestion is also very good: having one heister doing the whole downstairs, and two heisters doing the two separate kitchens upstairs, and finally one heister doing cams. However, this creates two new issues:
(1) waiting a while until you can safely mark the guard who is left alive in the downstairs kitchen (and then going in while avoiding him) will indeed be very safe, but with his random pathing he might take a few minutes until he finally allows you to saw open all 5 doors, and if there's a single mistake by the player doing that, the rush is over!
(2) sometimes 4-5 C4s spawn in the 10 green closets downstairs (e.g., our last run in the video). If a single heister ends up with too much C4, placing them takes a really long time: while 3 placed simultaneously takes 4s, placing 3 in a row by a single heister takes about 13s. Considering our full speed Second Wind run only had 12s to spare at the end, a situation like that would also fail the rush with no chance to recover.
Overall I think it wouldn't be as reliable, but if the strategy with the custom PCM order hadn't worked, this would definitely become a very good strategy, and 100% worth pursuing!
Basically this is what we've been doing these past few weeks: someone suggests a strategy to solve our current problem, and everyone else evaluates it! :D
@@Marcmb Yep it's basically a more situational strategy I guess,if the camera room is upstairs you can just have 1 heister with a saw get that open and then resume to looking through the C4 with the other upstairs heister. Actually thinking about it since you don't need to roam upstairs to move bags it might be more convenient to instead leave one guard upstairs alive! My memory isn't the best with Alesso Heist but either way I'm sure the kitchen areas upstairs aren't as big as the ones downstairs (really you could just look at whichever kitchen area seems to easiest to navigate of the two and pick that one to leave with 1 guard)
This gives complete access to downstairs and saves a pocket because everyone will wait for the cam guy to be killed so after that you can just blast the downstairs guards away.
It's very situational and depends on the camera room spawns but if at least one player upstairs and one downstairs bring a saw then it's viable. If the camera room is downstairs it might be way harder and need a stationary guy in there.
So in short uhh
If camera room upstairs near the stairs then one of the two players assigned to that area brings a saw,kills the camera guy and easy work in just evading one of the guards in the kitchens.
If camera room near pyro booth then similarly one of the players brings a saw and gets in there quickly (now I don't remember precisely but there might be a chance for civs to spawn there? If so that can be a problem..) either way the rest follows as the one above and the person in camera room just has to carefully make his way back to the upstair kitchens (this is indeed very RNG dependant)
If camera room downstairs one player gets assigned to that area and remains in it until it's safe to kill everyone,if too much C4 happens to be all downstairs then I guess you can just notify the others and wait before picking it all up?
Overall it's a bit messy and situational plus needs more coordination in chat but maybeeeee 😬 (I can definitely see it working very easily if the camera room spawns near big stairs tho I can say that)
I think the advantage of not having to worry about cams could be worth it but I would have to do some checking myself I guess I'm too invested in it to give up aha
Definitely very situational! The main problem is that many of these situations require sneaking around from point A to point B to make up for the change in strategy. While sneaking around is easy, especially as the host, many situations would fail when the ping is high, or the player can't locate all the guards before moving out (can't really wait forever to play it safe during an ECM rush, or it ruins the point of the rush!), or if they move recklessly and get spotted... and whenever there's a mistake in the sneaking the whole rush has to be restarted!
Overall, for a rush strategy you want the maximum reliability (no restarts at all for any RNG reasons), but something like this could definitely be pulled off, if only to showcase the alternative strategy once! And as I said this would 100% been the alternative direction, if the more reliable alternative didn't work out :)
this would require some luck but
during the ECM rush while one of you goes up have them use a sniper to wall bang the camera guard so that he despawns, you would have to have everyone run a sniper (preferably the Bernetti Rangehitter as it is the highest conceal sniper that can pierce walls) and hope that the camera spawns but it would allow you to run with the second wind boost, just an idea but im no good at ECM rushing in this game
Hey Drake! Unfortunately one of our issues was that the camera guard did not despawn during the run, so killing him even with a sniper weapon would fail the rush :(
100 points for the idea though: anything involving sniper kills in stealth is always very cool!
As much as I admire the fact that you 4 actually managed to pull it off this way, realistically the main issue at hand could've easily been solved by killing the camera operator and answering his pager before starting the rush. No active cameras, no pager going off, no problems.
Then you don't have enough pagers for the 4 kitchen guards
we wanted a 100% safe strategy, and for that to happen we had to clean the kitchens so we could collect the c4s and rush afterwards.
also, the camera room has different spawns and it's very risky to kill him, and after the rush starts you won't be able to respond to your pager, this killing solution ends up bringing more problems
This would've been a very interesting suggestion, FazHound! In fact, when attempting these types of "impossible" or "never-attempted-before" rushes, a big part of the rush is thinking about it, and coming up with a strategy.
However, as *@amitzohar* and *@gabriel* pointed out before me, in order to make the rush 100% reliable, we had to take out the 4 kitchen guards, to ensure there was no risk of getting caught (and no need to play sneaky) regardless of the C4 spawns. Thus, we had no pager to spare to take out the cams, so this strategy wouldn't really be viable in a 100% reliable rush! Not to mention of course, that when the camera room spawns in the main lobby, it's very tricky to get in there and take him out! (and also depending on RNG pathing you would need to wait for a good opportunity to enter the room; one player would be unavailable to check their kitchen, creating more "holes" in the strategy; etc)
this is amazing and inspiring
Thank you very much, Victorious! Glad you liked it :)
Is there such things called a feedback rush?
Loud heist and feedback rush it
Hi DansPlay! That would be very nice, indeed... unfortunately the ECM feedback stun has a chance to fail (percentage based depending on the enemy unit), so it would be very tricky.