>Recruits almost only hoplites >Doesn't use hoplite formation but just bumrushes the enemy >Calls them pussies when they get absolutely demolished Sargon's tactical brilliance truly lives up to his namesake.
@@hereisyoursign6750 They were though. Their society valued two things: warriors and the bare minimum to survive. They also had an underclass of slaves that did all the hard labour (by comparison, in Athens elves were servants of the middle and upper classes) and had grown a hatred for money, in fact, their coins were huge (Λακεδαιμονίων Πολιτεία does not provide measurements to my knowledge) so as to make it impossible to hide.
@@MythosTheSophist Classical Sparta could be best described as an military aristocracy. Spartans did not believe in Marxist doctrine and thought and were definitely not socialists. Sparta was actually quite famous for its legal code and constitution, its government was quite complicated and its citizen class well learned. Spartan citizens could be equated to the Samurai Class of Japan, whom were warrior-philosophers and performed most government functions while being warriors, they even treated underclasses the same way, with a samurai being able to kill anyone below him at a whim. Though Spartans and Samurai lived at completely different times, places and believed in different things, they are similar in function and power. My point is, Spartans weren't dumb meat hunks who could fight well, they were actually the foremost among the Greeks and could stand up against the power of Athens and command similar respect in many aspects besides war
@@hereisyoursign6750 I never said they weren't great soldiers, their prowess was famous throughout Greece (perhaps slightly imflamated). The way their society operated, while completely devoid of Marxist doctrine, could be described as proto-socialism. They all lived dirt poor (more out of culture, really) and had minimum communication with the world outside of their city-state. I admit that the comparison is not perfect, but Sparta was as socialist as Athens was capitalist.
The hot gates were about inflicting a heavy price on the enemy and showing tge persians that Greece wouldnt bend the knee. The Spartans gave Xerxes a Pyric victory that they would think about in future.
For sure, the battle was a Persian victory but a major setback nonetheless. Carl says that the Persians reached Athens in a month but were it not for this battle that significantly hamstrung the Persians would their advance not have been a lot faster? It was like Hurtgen forest in a sense. That battle was a minor defeat for the allies when accounting for the casualties but it stopped them in their tracks and gifted the Germans their last major offensive of the war.
Sargon, you should read Victor Davis Hanson’s Carnage and Culture. It details why westerners prefer decisive shock battle such as hoplite engagements. Also how you get the common soldier to accept the high casualties that decisive battle requires.
@Aggromemnon Oddly, chariots were actually a major thing in Europe prior to the Roman empire. Heck, Caesar's first landing in Britain had him fighting chariots, which he found quaint because the Gauls had already stopped using them. Something about the combination of chariots, roman tactics and wet ground made them suddenly non-viable, which probably explains why they dropped off. Meanwhile, roman tactics against chariots weren't quite as effective when you were fighting on dry ground.
I love these types of games. I've never played a European themed one though. Usually I play the Chinese Waring States period or the Feudal Japan, Sengoku era - Oh man. If Akilah had to pay you $50-$100 a month for the rest of her life it would be hilarious. Alimony where she'd have to think about her big mouth every month😂 - You may not like manga, Sargon, but you, and anyone interested, should really look into a series called Kingdom. It's set in BC China during the warring States period. Set during the time of the first ruler that wanted to unify China. It's got some really great strategy and historically accurate battles
Light hoplites have more morale probably to simulate a greater degree of unit independence, while heavier infantry are reliant on their formation. A unit that is reliant on formation strength is more likely to break when its formation is weakened, and light infantry are typically more flexible.
The cavalry is kind of pathethic in this. They charge into backs of a formation and just stop on the first row. I know this is not the heavy cavalry of medieval periods, but some sort of reaction would be nice.
Just so you know Sargon the reason your infantry was doing worse then you expected in that battle near the end os because they were exhausted before any fighting took place, and the enemy was fresh. You told your men to sprint to there positions for several minutes while on 3x speed.
38:00 BECAUSE of it's mountanous terrain. In real life cavalry can only operate in clear open fields, while charging uphill or through forrest or other uneven terrain is very difficult. So in mountains cavalry is mostly useless. Also real life armies are much larger relative to the terrain, while on a total war map the map is usually mostly a huge flat plains extending to the horizon in all directions, where cavalry can ooperate without any effort. And in total war there is no signifficant damage to cavalry mobility in forrests or mountains which normally makes such units incapable of maneuver
Seriously though, a unit that has 2.5% of its men left and still doesn't rout when it is surrounded is insane. Might as well just remove morale altogether from the unit and give it an unbreakable trait.
@@Alex_Fahey Well, the Urban Romans were unbreakable. In the first Rome game i just called them immortals as they marchied with thier shield wall into enemy cities and slaughtered everything.
I can answer Sargons question about why more game studios don’t make games like total war. The truth was hard for me to accept long ago. Good games are not as profitable and they are much harder to make. Everything going mobile. Quick gratification. Jump in and out sort of games. Loot boxes and add on’s. Plus unfortunately/sadly the number of people that like these games are a lot fewer than one would think.
You're close, but the real reason is consoles. Games like this don't work well with a controller rather than a mouse, and AAA game companies are hesitant to make games that can't be played on consoles.
@The Thinkery Divide Et Impera !! I am not surprised to see you play a smarter version of Rome II - and yet I am pleased to see it ! such a great mod !!
I haven't played DEI in ages. Sargon, what sub mods do you have with the main DEI mod? There are loads of nifty little sub mods by Dresden on Steam including an All Factions Playable mod if you fancied playing as a smaller, obscure faction.
I love the mod but every battle between two full stacks lags hard. I run most other TW games on HIGH but with DEI I set everything to low and it still lags. Any tips on how to get it to run more smoothly? I was Crete with my last try. Got into a big war with Rhodes, as soon as we get into a battle with two full stack it runs at a snails pace.
Keep in mind Thrones of Britannia and Troy are "Total War Saga" games which are a bit more slimmed down at times. Imo the last really good one was Empire. I love Warhammer though, but I get what you are saying about it.
No love for shogun 2? Rome 2 was really where it kinda went downhill with its botched launch, but I am biased, Shogun 2 was my first total war and I looked up the history of the franchise and got a few other titles later on to expand my horizons on the fields of battle
Magnus Ludvigsen yea that’s fair, I can see the lack of unit variety between factions being a bit of a let down, and the constant siege battles. Still though a fine addition to the collection imo. Hoping Troy is decent but eh, Epic is annoying, and no multiplayer till November is annoying too.
Can some one give me sources on thespians always dying in battle!!! sargon has mentioned it so much but all I have is that they stayed at Thermopylae. And there is a modern idea that they had an "elite" unit, but that seems to be fiction.
@@angelos3277 The mods I used made the A.I tougher (whether they worked Idk) but I became the dominant power in the game. The Only challenge was at the start as the other Greek factions usually betray you early on, that's what happened with me anyway.
Good god, stop sending all 4 squads of your cav to attack a single unit. It’s a complete waste. Spread them out when your behind the lines to test for multiple weak points. 2 squads per unit at most.
I implore you not to put too much behind a pay-wall at least to start out. I think reach and proof of concept is the most valuable things to start with. And given your popularity I do believe you will have a decent amount of backers from the start, including myself. I don't mind exclusive stuff as long as it is more like paying for "bonus content" not the content itself. And early access is totally fine with me, some sort of interaction would also be nice, like "members" could suggest/vote on topics for a segment of the podcast or something along those lines
I’ve never really figured out the hate for Rome 2, it’s the only total war game I play even though I started playing them when shogun 1 came out and own all but three kingdoms. I personally think Empire is the worst IMO because it is literally broken; I’ve never had a siege battle that actually worked and naval combat was far too clunky, not my favourite period either. DEI haven’t played in a long time and honestly don’t know what to make of it, I found the Dark Souls “I play DEI so I’m better than all the other Rome II plebs” elitist mentality off putting. I do really like the effort they’ve put into it and the extra mechanics, but sometimes I feel it’s more hassle than it’s worth half the time. Never understood the love for Shogun II either, happy to be convinced.
Athens won the Persian war because of their naval forces. If they didn't kick the Persian's fleet's ass, the Persians would've just surrounded the Peloponnese, slowly enveloping the Peloponneseians, who are all focusing on their own land, and without the support of peoples like the Athenians, who would've submitted to the Persians if the Spartans tried to keep abandoning the city of Athens. If not for primarily Athens naval victory, the remaining Greek forces would've had to fight a final battle many times larger than the one they did.
Actual hours. Granted, my last Total War game was all the way back to Shogun, so there was quite a bit of a learning curve. But I'm enjoying it, now that I'm not overwhelmed by all the features.
As a french Canadian I am deeply disapointed Sargon. You might not be afraid of french people but even fucking Hitler had nightmares about the French Canadians.
Make Istanbul Constantinople Again.
Always has been.
Make Turkey Byzantium Again
@@bullmoose4561 make Byzantium Roman again
Điền Lam always was
To the Greeks it never stopped being.
Make Agia Sophia a museum again!
>Recruits almost only hoplites
>Doesn't use hoplite formation but just bumrushes the enemy
>Calls them pussies when they get absolutely demolished
Sargon's tactical brilliance truly lives up to his namesake.
“The best Defense is a quick and decisive Offence.”
As a lowly grunt, an infantryman, I really appreciate the sentiment Sargon has for us.
‘The strong do what they can, and the weak suffer what they must’
Greek mythology summarised
I conquered all of persia as sparta, thank you, thank you everyone
Fuck, now there is an alternate timeline were Persia has militarised socialism
@@MythosTheSophist Spartans were definitely not militant socialists imao
@@hereisyoursign6750 They were though. Their society valued two things: warriors and the bare minimum to survive.
They also had an underclass of slaves that did all the hard labour (by comparison, in Athens elves were servants of the middle and upper classes) and had grown a hatred for money, in fact, their coins were huge (Λακεδαιμονίων Πολιτεία does not provide measurements to my knowledge) so as to make it impossible to hide.
@@MythosTheSophist Classical Sparta could be best described as an military aristocracy. Spartans did not believe in Marxist doctrine and thought and were definitely not socialists. Sparta was actually quite famous for its legal code and constitution, its government was quite complicated and its citizen class well learned. Spartan citizens could be equated to the Samurai Class of Japan, whom were warrior-philosophers and performed most government functions while being warriors, they even treated underclasses the same way, with a samurai being able to kill anyone below him at a whim. Though Spartans and Samurai lived at completely different times, places and believed in different things, they are similar in function and power. My point is, Spartans weren't dumb meat hunks who could fight well, they were actually the foremost among the Greeks and could stand up against the power of Athens and command similar respect in many aspects besides war
@@hereisyoursign6750 I never said they weren't great soldiers, their prowess was famous throughout Greece (perhaps slightly imflamated). The way their society operated, while completely devoid of Marxist doctrine, could be described as proto-socialism. They all lived dirt poor (more out of culture, really) and had minimum communication with the world outside of their city-state. I admit that the comparison is not perfect, but Sparta was as socialist as Athens was capitalist.
The hot gates were about inflicting a heavy price on the enemy and showing tge persians that Greece wouldnt bend the knee. The Spartans gave Xerxes a Pyric victory that they would think about in future.
For sure, the battle was a Persian victory but a major setback nonetheless. Carl says that the Persians reached Athens in a month but were it not for this battle that significantly hamstrung the Persians would their advance not have been a lot faster? It was like Hurtgen forest in a sense. That battle was a minor defeat for the allies when accounting for the casualties but it stopped them in their tracks and gifted the Germans their last major offensive of the war.
Sargon, you should read Victor Davis Hanson’s Carnage and Culture. It details why westerners prefer decisive shock battle such as hoplite engagements. Also how you get the common soldier to accept the high casualties that decisive battle requires.
@Aggromemnon Oddly, chariots were actually a major thing in Europe prior to the Roman empire. Heck, Caesar's first landing in Britain had him fighting chariots, which he found quaint because the Gauls had already stopped using them. Something about the combination of chariots, roman tactics and wet ground made them suddenly non-viable, which probably explains why they dropped off. Meanwhile, roman tactics against chariots weren't quite as effective when you were fighting on dry ground.
You should play Hearts of Iron playing as Germany. Imagine the meltdown from the SJW's
I could listen to sargon ramble on about history for hours
Shogun 2 is incredible. I'm assuming you haven't played it since you didn't mention it among CA's greatest games.
@Aggromemnon Yeah Shogun was Creative Assemblies first total war so they gave the sequel a lot of love.
Totally agree on Medieval 2 being the last good one. Troy looks like a pile of hot garbage.
@Char Aznable I couldn't agree more, have a good day friend.
I love these types of games. I've never played a European themed one though. Usually I play the Chinese Waring States period or the Feudal Japan, Sengoku era
- Oh man. If Akilah had to pay you $50-$100 a month for the rest of her life it would be hilarious. Alimony where she'd have to think about her big mouth every month😂
- You may not like manga, Sargon, but you, and anyone interested, should really look into a series called Kingdom. It's set in BC China during the warring States period. Set during the time of the first ruler that wanted to unify China. It's got some really great strategy and historically accurate battles
Have a gander at Crusader Kings. 2 is free at the moment, fantastic game. 3 comes out in two weeks. Best Grand strategy game there is.
Light hoplites have more morale probably to simulate a greater degree of unit independence, while heavier infantry are reliant on their formation. A unit that is reliant on formation strength is more likely to break when its formation is weakened, and light infantry are typically more flexible.
"the last good one was Medieval 2"
ahh... a man of taste. do that one next.
The cavalry is kind of pathethic in this. They charge into backs of a formation and just stop on the first row. I know this is not the heavy cavalry of medieval periods, but some sort of reaction would be nice.
Loved your content already...but knowing you play ROME TW makes me a lifelong diehard fan for good..... we should play WARHAMMER 2 TW
Is there any place to get these streams in podcast form to save on bandwidth?
Holy crap! He’s actually playing video games!!!
I love the history talk with a total war backdrop pls do more
Just so you know Sargon the reason your infantry was doing worse then you expected in that battle near the end os because they were exhausted before any fighting took place, and the enemy was fresh. You told your men to sprint to there positions for several minutes while on 3x speed.
So there WAS a stream! I didn't get any notifications after the first 3.
Where does sargon even upload anymore? I've lost track of him lately.
38:00 BECAUSE of it's mountanous terrain. In real life cavalry can only operate in clear open fields, while charging uphill or through forrest or other uneven terrain is very difficult. So in mountains cavalry is mostly useless. Also real life armies are much larger relative to the terrain, while on a total war map the map is usually mostly a huge flat plains extending to the horizon in all directions, where cavalry can ooperate without any effort. And in total war there is no signifficant damage to cavalry mobility in forrests or mountains which normally makes such units incapable of maneuver
"Why is this STREAMING?!" -Sargon 2020
Why am I only seeing this 5 days after the posted date?...... Asking rhetorically.
2:40:40 - Sargon's Rage is real, Macedonians Hoplites OP.
Seriously though, a unit that has 2.5% of its men left and still doesn't rout when it is surrounded is insane. Might as well just remove morale altogether from the unit and give it an unbreakable trait.
@@Alex_Fahey right?!! WTF IS HAPPENING
@@Alex_Fahey Well, the Urban Romans were unbreakable. In the first Rome game i just called them immortals as they marchied with thier shield wall into enemy cities and slaughtered everything.
What an awesome video game. I’ve played many hundreds of hours
I can answer Sargons question about why more game studios don’t make games like total war. The truth was hard for me to accept long ago. Good games are not as profitable and they are much harder to make. Everything going mobile. Quick gratification. Jump in and out sort of games. Loot boxes and add on’s. Plus unfortunately/sadly the number of people that like these games are a lot fewer than one would think.
You're close, but the real reason is consoles. Games like this don't work well with a controller rather than a mouse, and AAA game companies are hesitant to make games that can't be played on consoles.
@The Thinkery Divide Et Impera !! I am not surprised to see you play a smarter version of Rome II - and yet I am pleased to see it ! such a great mod !!
Didn't get a notification for this video even though I've been subbed since you made it.
Dark souls is not reflexes. It is timing and proper spacing. Should be just your pace. You will die a lot though. You just have to embrace it.
Total war is the greatest series ever
Well done 14stone 3 lbs Thant’s good going
Last time i was this late Athena and Poseidon were still fighting over Athens patronage
Sargon. Where the heck is your starship trooper video. F'in bollocks, I was pissed to find out it was gone. Anyways, eh.
I haven't played DEI in ages. Sargon, what sub mods do you have with the main DEI mod? There are loads of nifty little sub mods by Dresden on Steam including an All Factions Playable mod if you fancied playing as a smaller, obscure faction.
I love the mod but every battle between two full stacks lags hard. I run most other TW games on HIGH but with DEI I set everything to low and it still lags. Any tips on how to get it to run more smoothly? I was Crete with my last try. Got into a big war with Rhodes, as soon as we get into a battle with two full stack it runs at a snails pace.
hoi4 next?
I've found with DEI you need to move your forces through the enemies ranks rather than attacking them to get the buggers to break.
Didnt know sargon was a total war fan
He's fat, autistic, and has a neckbeard. Why would you think that?
His Perfidious Albion campaign on Stainless steel M2TW Stainless Steel mod back in the day was pretty good!
@@bashkillszombies i mean,now that you put it this way...makes sense
Keep in mind Thrones of Britannia and Troy are "Total War Saga" games which are a bit more slimmed down at times.
Imo the last really good one was Empire. I love Warhammer though, but I get what you are saying about it.
No love for shogun 2? Rome 2 was really where it kinda went downhill with its botched launch, but I am biased, Shogun 2 was my first total war and I looked up the history of the franchise and got a few other titles later on to expand my horizons on the fields of battle
@@mythboy76 Shogun 2 never really did it for me. I really wanted to, but something about it just made me not enjoy it as much as Rome 2 and Empire.
Magnus Ludvigsen yea that’s fair, I can see the lack of unit variety between factions being a bit of a let down, and the constant siege battles. Still though a fine addition to the collection imo. Hoping Troy is decent but eh, Epic is annoying, and no multiplayer till November is annoying too.
Can some one give me sources on thespians always dying in battle!!! sargon has mentioned it so much but all I have is that they stayed at Thermopylae. And there is a modern idea that they had an "elite" unit, but that seems to be fiction.
I mean you were bringing hoplites against a proper pike phalnax, that's litterally why alaxander conquered greece
Mod list????
the Makedonian army was filled with heavy infantry, which is totally busted in this game.
Don't get how Sparta's initial challenge is Hard, played as them on Very Hard and destroyed the early game with they're hoplites.
Unmodded I think they are much worse
@@angelos3277 The mods I used made the A.I tougher (whether they worked Idk) but I became the dominant power in the game. The Only challenge was at the start as the other Greek factions usually betray you early on, that's what happened with me anyway.
I think it is because you start with a minor city, means you have to conquer from the start to make any headway
@@EliWintercross I guess so but it's only a matter of spawning units and then your good to go
Good god, stop sending all 4 squads of your cav to attack a single unit. It’s a complete waste. Spread them out when your behind the lines to test for multiple weak points. 2 squads per unit at most.
Nice played keep coming
sarg,I'm such a boomer!
Everyone:ok
Was this from a stream that was deleted? Edited out something spicy? :)
Ahh ok, don't let the spammer in the chat benefit.
where the chat box go???
Disabled by TH-cam because it was spicy
@@bullmoose4561 oh! LOL
Wait what, the Romans were Ana Kasparians????
I implore you not to put too much behind a pay-wall at least to start out. I think reach and proof of concept is the most valuable things to start with. And given your popularity I do believe you will have a decent amount of backers from the start, including myself.
I don't mind exclusive stuff as long as it is more like paying for "bonus content" not the content itself. And early access is totally fine with me, some sort of interaction would also be nice, like "members" could suggest/vote on topics for a segment of the podcast or something along those lines
I’ve never really figured out the hate for Rome 2, it’s the only total war game I play even though I started playing them when shogun 1 came out and own all but three kingdoms. I personally think Empire is the worst IMO because it is literally broken; I’ve never had a siege battle that actually worked and naval combat was far too clunky, not my favourite period either. DEI haven’t played in a long time and honestly don’t know what to make of it, I found the Dark Souls “I play DEI so I’m better than all the other Rome II plebs” elitist mentality off putting. I do really like the effort they’ve put into it and the extra mechanics, but sometimes I feel it’s more hassle than it’s worth half the time. Never understood the love for Shogun II either, happy to be convinced.
Shogun II 4 lyfe
More Tortola war videos plse. We get to see how Sargon would rule a empire
Fun fact: Athens was great without the Yudens.
So a rerun of making Trump great again?
"What do you do against the phalanx?"
Romans: Get in and fuck it dry.
Gladius+Schutum > Phalanx
Athens won the Persian war because of their naval forces. If they didn't kick the Persian's fleet's ass, the Persians would've just surrounded the Peloponnese, slowly enveloping the Peloponneseians, who are all focusing on their own land, and without the support of peoples like the Athenians, who would've submitted to the Persians if the Spartans tried to keep abandoning the city of Athens. If not for primarily Athens naval victory, the remaining Greek forces would've had to fight a final battle many times larger than the one they did.
Bro play hoi4
I personally had most fun with Shogun 2 Total war.
Athens has nothing on the Seleucid Empire.
Its OK Sargon, you might be THE Arch Boomer, but you're alright! ;)
TW Warhammer is alright. It's only thing I have left after end times.
Troy is based on the Warhammer engine, so if you don't like Warhammer then you'd probably not like Troy.
Play as the Seleucids. Form the great empire that would've been, had Alexander lived to old age.
PFFT. Alexander had strawberry blonde hair and blue eyes. Seleucids had black hair, brown eyes, and brown skin. They're not even the same ethnicity.
@@bashkillszombies this was after persia was conquered by Macedonia. the demographic changed.
@@bashkillszombies Quiet, You.
it should be £3/month
Sparta vs the Troy boys
Troy Total War isn't too bad. Or at least not in my first hours' playing.
Who's hours? The games, or hour's hours?
Actual hours. Granted, my last Total War game was all the way back to Shogun, so there was quite a bit of a learning curve. But I'm enjoying it, now that I'm not overwhelmed by all the features.
That's how I picked it up!
Make carthage great again,perhaps?
Not got Troy?
Zachary Brinson how come ? I’ve played over 300 hrs Rome 2 and Troy is just fine.
I'd rather play Napoleon total war than Rome 2. Napoleon is a great total war.
2:40:50 XD
“Wasn’t real Californiaism”
Imperator Rome is pretty decent I think. CA is pretty shit atm. DEI is the best thing CA has atm and yes troy is shite
This is why Scotland keeps trying to leave, Sargon.
The Spar-Tah virus!
send French to Louisiana
Beijing Duck Lives Matter
As a french Canadian I am deeply disapointed Sargon.
You might not be afraid of french people but even fucking Hitler had nightmares about the French Canadians.
next time strategos
Lysander did nothing wrong!
Not enough graphics memory? What kind of shit graphics card you have it can't run an 8 year old game?
3 kingdoms has the best diplomacy
Kleon did nothing wrong
This is shameful display!
3 kingdoms is awful