For anyone who reads the timeline as '2277 The Fall of Shady Sands' and DOESN'T think that is referring to the LITERAL NUKE that dropped on the city........when do we refer to the destruction of Nagasaki and Hiroshima? Is it Pearl Harbour or when America dropped a nuke on them? Moreover, even if you contort your brain to somehow think that makes sense. Is it really better that the NCR was destroy by this Vault employee instead of the political forces that several games tried to build up? It doesn't bother you that they NUKED something that made these games actually interesting?!
No it doesn’t bother me that they are weakening the most powerful faction on the west coast. That presents an opportunity for the power dynamics to change and change is interesting. Also there isn’t any evidence that the ncr was destroyed, just that it was weakened and it’s impossible to say how much at this point. After all shady sands is just 1 city across a huge amount of territory. Severely weakened? Probably , but there is no conclusive evidence that it is destroyed. Also, Hank nuking Shady Sands is entirely plausible… it’s not like this is the first vault dweller to ever leave a vault and nuke a town. It’s happened before and I’m sure it will happen again. And another thing as long as I have you here… I’ll bet we find out Hank didn’t nuke Shady Sands because of a domestic dispute but instead did it because he was ordered to, or maybe he didn’t nuke it at all but had knowledge it was going to be nuked so he went there to save his family. You are making all these assumptions with only a small part of the story. Even if the show ends next season you still only have half the story right now. And if it goes 5 seasons you only have 20 percent of the story. Just to reiterate even if Hank does turn out to have nuked shady sands simply because of a domestic dispute that is still a very fallout thing to have happened. Who knows. Maybe the fall of the ncr will give us an even more interesting west coast fallout experience, instead of one where the NCR just dominates everyone
amazing video, this lore butchering will not go unnoticed I don't know if you will ever see this but we support you a lot of people do. The people in the comments some of them are bots, or people that are misinformed people that don't know about F1 F2 FNV, naive people or Bethesda Fans maybe retarded Fallout Fans. Amazon might be paying other TH-camrs but something fishy is going on here, comment bots.
the board is badly explain but the nuke was not in 77 is in the 80s the show runner confirm new vegas is cannon the show the last episode confirms new vegas is cannon and the fallout wiki confirms the bomb was in the 80s .
I really don't think the NCR is completely gone. Sure, Shady Sands was the main base, but that can definitely change, especially with whatever ending they want to make Canon for season 2. We did see NCR gear still.
Bethesda just wants fallout to be a mad max style scavengers paradise, while the classic fallouts were all about seeing the world recuperating from an outsider’s perspective. Obsidian continued the trend (somewhat) with the small towns of the mojave and the new vegas strip. But Bethesda just has to get rid of any civilisation. And for what? I can assure you it would be much more enjoyable to watch the characters actually talk to Vegas locals instead of just looking round a bunch of ruins while Cooper spouts exposition about securitrons or something.
B-b-but the brotherhood of steel HAS to be at the center of attention in fallout, always! We at Bethesda hate civilization rebuilding, even if the bombs were dropped 50,000 years ago! We need more power armor variants!
I'm a BOS fan but I agree. The BOS of steel is the only big faction to NEVER take a hit. The enclave, institute, and NCR all get decimated at one point but the BOS just comes out on top somehow. It takes away depth and shows favoritism.
the brother hood of steel will ALWAYS come out on top is because Tod Howard just LOVES 💦🍆 the brotherhood of steel! those BOS-SOBs will always be around as bethestha is at the helm....
It's been 14 years since the fallout franchise has seen any major content involving west coast lore, New Vegas, or the NCR. Thus, it is very dissapointing that we are being reintroduced to them in their destroyed state. It's like they dug up the corpse just to show us it's dead. The NCR was the most powerful civilization in the wasteland and for them to go out like that is just lame and a disservice to fans. Same goes for New Vegas assuming it's destroyed as well.
Oh quit being so melodramatic. It's a video game being made into a movie. Different mediums require different narratives. They can't stay 100% canon plus they have to make it appeal to a wider audience.
The only way they can do it justice is to just go the Arcane route and say that the TV canon is separate from the video game canon. From what i heard this series takes place just after the events of New Vegas, and since they are going to go to New Vegas.... well... the Courier still has to be around right? I feel like that's the biggest corner they just pushed themselves against, there's many things they may not be able to do justice but the Courier is probably the biggest. Either way they go it will be disappointing. If they go the "The Nerevarine went to Akavir" route then it will be disappointing because they use lazy writing to remove the biggest player. If they make him show up and be incredibly weak so he doesn't steal the spotlight that's just straight up going to send fans into a frenzy. If they make him as competent as he actually is that's gonna leave the fans satisfied but it will completely steal the spotlight from the actual protagonists. That's why way i see it the safest choice is to just say that it's a separate canon and that the Courier doesn't exist in this canon. Because otherwise i see no way for them to actually write something that's gonna leave the fans happy.
considering that in their "timeline" House launched the first nukes, I'd say it's likely going to be a wasteland with them locked up in a vault under Lucky 38.
This makes no sense why would it be a slap. I actually would prefer them to pick a ending and go through with it since there won’t be a return to new Vegas
I'm betting new Vegas is going to be in shambles when it's shown they're going to keep the lore of its downfall very minimum which will be a serious downer.
I also wanted to point out that the location of Shady Sands has been completely changed 200 miles south to LA. Wouldn't this cause a complete change of events in Fallout 1?
@@wikkano what I am trying to say here is that the location of Shady Sands in the show is completely different from F1 and F2. They moved the city to Los Angeles where the Boneyard is meant to be.
Another plot hole I noticed in the Fallout TV Show. How did Vault 33, Vault 32, Vault 31, and Vault 4 survived the events of Fallout 1? They’re literally located in the Master’s backyard. The Master would easily find these vaults and send his super mutant army to invade and wipe it out. No Vault was safe in California while the Master was around.
@@Amanitaland all hatred aside I’m assuming if they play it correctly they won’t state exactly what happened to keep the ending ambiguous. Like they’ll say how the legion did this or Mr house did that and so on but won’t give the exact answer on the courier’s decision as that’s what they did to the lone wanderer in fallout 4. I’m postive house will play a role somehow because there’s no other reason we can gleam from as to why Hank is going to new vegas unless he going to the courier which won’t happen. I believe that most likely lots of it will be left up to interpretation this season and planned it out for the next season as that was already greenlit before it even came out. Most likely they’ll explain some things and leave others out, also Bethesda if we compare their other games seems to be liking very bleak endings for the characters we meet in their games and factions. In fallout 3 the noble brotherhood became fanatics and people like Sarah were killed off. Skyrim shows the empire you saved in turmoil and in a civil war. Most likely they’ll portray a grime future for new vegas as well but one that could possibly occur (tunnellers, courier nuking shit, the rad storm and what not) It’s suck too because I actually enjoyed the series besides the lore breaks.
Honestly, when it comes to lore in video games you got to treat it like a jenga tower; cause if you move one thing out of line, like a date for example, it just all comes crashing down
They really didn't change any dates though. We know in New vegas that Shady sands and the NCR as a whole aren't doing too well. And they don't outright say that the bomb dropped in 2277 in the show.
@@Amanitaland yeah, but they could have made the fall of the NCR/Shady Sands happen a little after NV but before the show but didn’t, and now the lore timeline wise is a bit of a mess. So unless they fixed it in season 2 (which is wishful/hopeful thinking) then we have to see how the show runners of the show try to explain this or perhaps fix it
@@fransionseamor9368 But they didn't even mention that they completely fell or if the bomb was the reason. Hell they could have been weak at that point and then Shady Sands was destroyed. We need more info
@@Amanitaland true, but if they have basically a functioning government during 2277 (which is also the date of the first battle for Hoover dam in the world) then shouldn’t they also mention that being the reason? Then again, I did see someone point out that shady sands was the “first” capital for the ncr, but that doesn’t make sense since characters from new Vegas talk about politicians from shady sands. Either way, they got a lot of info they need to tell us in order to fix this mess and make it make sense in a way. Cause there seems to be a LOT of questions they just caused folks to have from this series who have played New Vegas
My problem is why would they set it in the NCR (and subsequently set season 2 in New Vegas) and not use any of the interesting lore established to be in that area? They honestly could have tweaked the show and set it anywhere else in the US. Fallout 4 deals with a government force that was wiped out that we never met at its height, they could have done the same here. My point is it just feels like such a waste of the NCR and New Vegas. The New Vegas aspect especially stings because it makes it feel like all the choices from that game never mattered.
Hey buddy nice try but it was OBSIDIANS LEAD WRITER that said wouldn't it be great if Shady sands and new vegas were to be destroyed to Todd Howard this was confirmed in an interview with both of them the other day so yall need to stop hating on Bethesda for Obsidians decision
Honestly I just wish show runners would flat out say something like this “it’s not Canon unless Bethesda wants it to be. We are just making a fun television show to see if fallout would be a good idea for a television series and the lore is more complex than i could expect my writers to understand every entry in the games. We decided it be better to make it not canonically so we can have an easier time with the writing process and focus on getting something for new and old fans alike. If they decide to make this canonically that up to Bethesda not us but we choose it to save us the headache of having to check the wiki and figuring out what is and isn’t canonically from the games.” That be the best answer but honestly Hollywood is weird about just admitting they don’t have the luxury of taking time to check every single detail or whatever passive aggressive thing Tod Howard has with new Vegas.
They knowingly had the show take place on the west coast, so getting simple things right like the timeline is just dumb. They could have watched a fallout timeline video on youtube and it woukd have fixed this problem.
I will note here that you got something wrong: the “CEO of Big Mountain” who House makes fun of in the meeting, is Fredrick Sinclair, who IS NOT THE CEO OF BIG MT, he only ever bought a lot of equipment from them for the sierra madre. The show could not even be bothered to read Sinclairs wiki to find out that he was not a Big Mt executive.
To be fair you could easily consider that they would send him since his technologies were being developed at Big Mt and he was wealthy just like Mr.House. It's not that wild
@@Amanitaland people like you just make Obsidian and FNV Fans scratching their head because constantly defending the bullshit retcon by bugthesda and Todd "16x" Howard
@Amanitaland It's very wild. His finances are a mess, he has a very clear parasexual obsession with a Hollywood starlet and Big MT is using his Casino to test lethal technology on his guests without his knowledge. Not exactly a safe person to tell about your conspiracy to nuke the planet. It feels more like they chose him because he's a businessman associated with Big MT and they wanted the meeting to be about corporate greed without consideration to the story put out in Dead Money.
@@theofrost1140 Yeah, I haven't played 4 or 76 in years. I am a fan of Fallout New Vegas and 3. I just played FNV enough to know that Sinclair is associated with Big Mountain and does have power. He also owned the Sierra Madre. It's not far-fetched the guy would be at that meeting.
@@brunoactis1104Ulysses says that if Vegas’ electric grid and lights stay on, it’ll combat the tunneller threat. If I’m remembering correctly, tunnellers hate noise and bright light. They’ll only be a threat, if something akin to the Sierra Madre’s toxic cloud covers the entire state or a dust storm from the divide engulfs the region, which we see no evidence of. A dust storm ideally, would pass. But, the cloud? That stays there. But, yeah I think this is a very interesting conversation to have.
I like Chris Avellones writing but man is his Self-insert insufferable, and whats even worse you cant call him out on his bullshit with an intelligence or speech check, because he's the embodiment of his writer, so how can a writer criticize himself? Also i don't like how much Avellone hates the idea of Civilization developing back, how he just wrote up a million ways for Mojave and NCR to be destroyed in apocalyptic hellfire, while when you look back at the mojave none of that seems plausible, the mojave looks fine, not even a crack in the ground and only reason tunnelers were in divide is because the nukes cracked the ground open. Avellones a heck of a writer but man is he biased, i could argue with Ulysses for hours why NCR and House aren't dead ends meanwhile my 10 INT character acts like a 5 year old in an argument. And whats worst is Ulysses isn't smart at all, yes he has 11 INT, but all he does is fall into fallacies and talk in allegories using fancy words, which when you look into it, isn't anything special at all. His opinions aren't anything new. I've heard the same opinions from simple people of the wastes, while when he says them with fancy words and allegories and metaphors, all of a sudden he's too smart to be questioned at all. I enjoyed Lonesome Road, i really did, the ending was very satisfying but man did i hate Ulysses' Pessimistic, Nihilist, Doomer look at the New World. Having an extensive talk with him could convince me the world is going to fall apart magnificently any moment now, if i didn't know any better.
that part always made me laugh, yeah the tunnelers will overrun the mojave when they can't even gang up on a single death claw, you realise the scripted shit in the dlc is a half dead severely nerfed claw right? if they're going to be a threat at least let us see why, they're all pushovers and we only see em in packs of 4 to 5, retarded shit
@@RabdoInternetGuy Here I will both agree and disagree with you. It seems to me that the lore and general representation of New Vegas and the Mojave look quite appropriate. You are shown a slowly reviving society that is faced with the first civilizational and political challenge - when conditional democracy faces conditional tyranny (by the word conditional, I first of all mean that these are not clearly expressed political thoughts, but rather a consequence of state building in a post-apocalyptic society from those materials that generally exist). They tell you that the Mojave is a cruel place, it’s difficult to live here, but people do not lose faith and hope, and I willingly believe that for them the year 2281 looks much more optimistic than everything that came before. After all, before there was no NKR or House, there were only isolated communes that survived on their own and which did not represent anything special. Now, despite all the suffering and horrors, society is again beginning the path to unification. Communes are turning into small states and countries. Destroyed villages are being transformed into sustainable settlements. Trade turns from rare to constant. But as for Avellone, he is a good screenwriter, but not only an asshole, but also an asshole as a screenwriter. He very often puts things into the script that he wants to see. Avellone does not like cats - he writes that according to the lore they were exterminated, although this is hard to believe. Avellone says that romance in games is stupid (although in fact games as media have long learned to competently show romance and chemistry of characters) - and therefore his charismatic heroes cannot create any lasting connections with each other. And this is not to mention the fact that other people always work on the text and script, but he stupidly appropriated their work for himself.
@@Крэйден_х I understand where you come from, and now i kinda understand why Ulysses had to be atleast a little bit pessimistic, because he's the total Antithesis to the player. For the player Mojave is a relatively new world, a new experience, and Naturally when you find something with potential and possibility of success, you want that place to live up to its potential. But for Ulysses, the Mojave is the same as all other place Legion has conquered, due to his line of work in the Legion, he doesn't exactly engage in friendly conversation with locals or really have a personal relationship with them, thus he fills in the blanks he doesn't know with familiarity of the other places he visited, so of course Mojave's future would look grim if everything else you saw in your life was grim. The player is Naturally in most their characters optimistic, even when supoorting atrocities, the player makes moral justification for the Character to do it. While Ulysses just looks at things objectively, and even if he knows he's repeating history and doing wrong, he still does it, he probably believes in predestination or destiny or something like that. For him all choices are empty. Ulysses really has no reason to be optimistic because all his life he saw and read about atrocities, catastrophes and what lead to them, so he sees everything that came before disaster as a bad thing, so from his perspective everything is bad. So yes Ulysses has very good reason to be pessimistic, but i don't like the fact you cannot argue with him about it, even though Ulysses exists as the direct opposite of the Player, he is literally meant to go against the player.
Not the first time Bethesda retconned anything. “For our purposes, Fallout 1&2 are canon. Fallout Tactics and Fallout Brotherhood of Steel are not.” Kells mentions the airship fleet that was destroyed out in the Midwest. Which was part of Fallout tactics. So with that reference, it’s semi-canon. Now with the retcon of Shady sands in the show, Fallout 1&2 have been retconned to a degree.
They should’ve just put the Show in completely another Universe than the Games, Pull whatever you need from what came before but leave the established canon alone. I’m still hoping that they do this for Season 2.
@@thepeople1448 I do agree that some conclusions are being jumped to however given the weird off dates the movement of Shady Sands Bethesda's gooberness and concerning glimpses it paints not a good picture as to all of the New Vegas lore being maintained
@@wikkano Honestly, I disagree. I think if anything, this makes the Mr. house ending canon, as Oliver and the NCR vowed to come back and retaliate for losing Hoover Dam. It would make sense that New Vegas took substantial damage in an NCR invasion. Also, we don’t even really know the date for the bombing, it very well could have happened after New Vegas. The chalkboard made it seem as if the bombing occurred after the fall of shady sands in 2277. I’m sure they’ll clear it up.
the timeline also seems to end with the nuke. which I think would imply the ncr is done and over. otherwise why wouldn't the timeline continue with an arrow pointing to something like "Second capital established at [X city] in the year [XXXX]"
You need to remember that the timeline was written by refugees that relocated to isolated Vault 4 years ago, they probably don't know themselves what happened to the rest of NCR after nuke. From their perspective it was over, but TV series had shown that at least in some way NCR continue to exist (Moldaver's faction fought BoS under NCR banner, Sorrel Booker claims to be president and inforce protection over others in wastelands around LA)
no it doesnt, it couldnt be more obvious that its about SHADY SANDS GETTING NUKED. and shady sands isnt the only thing in the ncr, dont complain about the lore when you dont even know it
lol 76's lore is deeper than any other bethesda title imo, theres a lot of really neat shit that actually is more fitting to og fallout than the other titles
That isn't the CEO of Big MT it's Fredrick Sinclair. Unless they've changed that he was (which also doesn't make sense as he's a victim of Big MT using him to conduct experiments on his Casino's guests). It doesn't make a whole lot of sense why he's there.
@@munanchoinc He was a major customer not an investor, he overleveraged himself risking insolvency building the Sierra Madre. There's nothing in the lore suggesting he had equity in Big MT, his story is a tragedy where those around him use him. Dean, Vera and the Big MT scientists.
@@munanchoinceven IF he was a “major investor”…it still doesn’t make sense that he would be the one representing Big MT at a top secret meeting like that. It’s also annoying that he looks completely different from his mosaic in Dead Money.
@@zacharymccants77 Especially as he's not in control of the scientists at Big MT who abuse his trust and run experiments outside of what he paid for. "I heard one of the execs mention that whether Sinclair knew it or not, the Sierra Madre would be a "test case" for the Auto-Doc and the Innovative Toxins research." Being from Old World Blues.
People just don't get it. We aren't *wrong* for wanting our time and emotional investment paid off in a satisfying way. Yet we're getting laughed out of the room at every opportunity by people who just want us to sit down and enjoy the pretty lights on the screen. Maybe that's all it is to *normies,* but there's far more to it than that for *us.* We've invested years into all this. And Bethesda has just said to us that it's all been for nothing. Who are they to tell us we're wrong for being mad about that?
I learned a long time ago that if lore is subjective (its not) then my lore is above everyone elses, star wars ended with the clone wars, fallout ended with new vegas and 3, 4, and 76, arent canon, and warhammer, wooo boy dont get me started on warhammer
@@tonystank3091 His comment is basically how people were talking back when the Schism happened to the Catholic and Orthodox churches lmao "MY LORE IS CANON!" "NO MINE IS"
I just don't like how the NCR gets into a divided state like that. You would think they would use an emergency radio like in the battle of hoover dam and go "Any remaining Government Officials, Workers, Military, or surviving citizens, report immediately to Vault City" as the new Shady Sands.
Bethesda hates the original games F1 F2 FNV and their creators they want to erase and destroy because Bethesda’s Fallout have bad writing and even they’re fans can’t even remember any good writing in their games it’s just wow this is very cool and the explanation is either bad or doesn’t make any sense and sometimes Bethesda even retcon their own games. They could have just hired the original creators and they would have made a profit but Todd and Emil’s ego can’t handle that they’re even involved with telling the Directors what to do. 😂😂😂
"No, we're not retconning it!" They said. As they retconned _the shit_ out of it. I mean, either they don't know the game well enough to know that they're retconning it, or they're just straight-up lying. It's one or the other.
I think these stupid duncecap wearers intentionally want the show to be a stupid post apocalyptic stereotypical normie show. They don't want something that actually makes sense. Nope, they want it to be like fallout 4 where a trader who sets up shop in a diner doesn't move the 2 hundred year old corpse off one of the tables
I think it's important to note that Shady Sands began to collapse during 2277 it wasn't nuked by Vault Tec that year. The arrow pointing to the nuke being further long indicates that but the director did an awful job of clearly depicting that. Shady Sands was nuked roughly around 2286-2287 because Max is in his early 20s during the show and he was around 10 when the BoS found him hiding in the fridge
@@JacobLevelX one of this supported by the show. But if it was 77 or 87 doesnt matter. What matters is rhey reset the lore from f1, f2 and NV and replaced it with poo.
My first fallout game was Fallout 4 then i started playing Fallout 1 and New vegas. The NCR in new vegas (with all it's flaws) inspired me so much that in my next fallout 4 playthrough i actually started rebuilding the commonwealth as the Minutemen and building settlements and outposts all across the commonwealth. It felt like a punch in the nuts to watch what they did to the NCR for me and it's even worse that we know the original Vault dweller the true hero of the series had a direct role in the formation of the NCR.
Then we got people like Mrshillplays (Mrmattyplays) defending Bethesda and the TV show for doing retcons. Hell, he literally admit liking Fallout 3 more than New Vegas. People need to expose these gaming TH-camrs for the ass kissers they are.
I feel that while watching the show, he's an executive producer, any scene where interplay or obsidian lore is brought up it gets retconned in strange ways, like shady sands getting nuked, seems personal. Or no mention of followers or crimson caravan or can graffs or boneyard or atrium or Brahmin barons and so forth - so much Civilization in California by new Vegas timeline, like shady sands I think has 1+ million people or that area yet Todd bumps the number way down and even with the population number he makes there would be plenty survivers, especially outside the shady sands area, there wouldn't just be mere remnants of NCR there would be a huge amount of NCR, it seems personal, retconning fallout 1 with the existence of all the vaults in the show when the master would have taken those vaults out, dead securitrons a destroyed new Vegas strip, and outside of new Vegas no crimson caravan company no gun runners building no camp mcarren, when they show the ncr flag he makes them play fallout 3 main theme, yeah it seems like a personal vendetta for sure, anything not Bethesda related it always retconned in humiliating ways@@CrxzyYT
It’s only going to be a matter of time before the Fallout TV show falls like the Witcher show did, and now Starfield is completely falling apart. I only hope I live to see Bethesda go through massive sacking or get bought again by a company that cares. Either way I hope the Elder Scrolls and Fallout end up in the hands of artists and writers not people pretending to be artists and writers.
what bethesda has done is deliberate. people will say "bro, todd howard is not mad because fnv is the best thing he never made" and it's exactly the opposite. the "this show is canon" was to retcon the only relevant fallout lore and invalidate FNV.
If they make House that he went insane alone in his tower and is just cope ruling the dead city we can collectively banish this entire TV show into the non canon shadow realm where Fo: BoS lays.
@@axcelblack2808 I am honestly afraid of any new Bethesda game, Elder Scrolls 6 and Fallout 5 could end up like Starfield, cuz I thought Starfield would be an ok game. Apparently I was wrong.
I still think its a typo. Somebody meant to put the date of 2287 instead of 2277. If that were the case it would have made a lot more sense, otherwise the entire notion that outright excluding the fact the Second Battle of Hoover Dam never occurred is just downright criminal in a way. Bethesda better clear this up soon because a lot of people, including myself, consider New Vegas the superior Fallout game in terms of plot and RPG emphasis. If they suddenly decide to railroad it into the ground like New Vegas never even happened that's going to create a cascade effect that will make Bethesda rue the day they tried to retcon an established game that many think was better than FO3, FO4 and FO76 combined.
Bethesda doesn't care about the OG fallout fans or the NV fans they have their looter shooter enjoyers along with their "TV audience" that they can try and attract in with the new show I wouldn't discount this being a cheeky way of atleast in part retconning parts of New Vegas or smth
How do all these multi million dollar projects end up making such pointless lore mistakes. It's like they're doing this on purpose. If I was Microsoft I would fire Todd and every single dunce who worked on 4 and 3.
Would have made no more sense. First of all Shady Sands is located east from San Francisco. It isnt in LA like in the show. 2ndly the idea that vault tec launched the nukes because somehow waiting out everyone else would benefit them (lol). And their grand idea for earth is 100 frozen managers in vault 31. So stupid. What they did was garbage. They took the art from f1, f2 and NV and threw poo on it. They need to come out and say the show is an alternate timeline. Then they can bathe in manure in their timeline as much as they want.
And its just gonna get worse too. As long as Bethesda continues down the road it is, their meddling in the setting will just break it more and more and more.
I honestly do think the show runners just didn’t realize how rabid the fan base would be by one timeline and the omission of a year with the Nuke. Max is meant to be early 20s and the nuke fell when he was child. Means at least there was a ten year difference between when Shady Sands got nuked and the start of the show. Plus, I fell like the show is going for the long drawn out “Fall of Rome” like story for the Shady Sands (and probably the NCR) and that 2177 was just the start, and the events of New Vegas happen while Shady Sands is falling Again, showrunners really had no clue how much this fan base while analyze any and every detail
I want to go to these places in the future games and i dont want a show dedicating whether or not these places exist or not, just they've all the lore that isn't bethesdas crap, cause all the lore they've destroyed so far is original fallout 1, 2 and new vegas lore.
@@Ytomany it happened with World of Warcraft for me, I wanted to play out the story and continue the RTS series after Warcraft 3 TFT, but they went in a totally different and eventually money grabbing direction.
They should’ve just put the Show in completely another Universe than the Games, Pull whatever you need from what came before but leave the established canon alone. I’m still hoping that they do this for Season 2.
This is the correct way. If they didnt want that they should have set it on the east coast or midwest. Dont touch the amazing writing of f1, f2 and NV.
@@fredrik3880 my friend. That's called delusional and gaslighting yourself the things you love become disgusting. This is real life, and you're watching a fictional show with a fictional settings. how it canon or not canon it's entirely up to them. If the creator themselves said its canon but the fanbase said is not. Then just copium and straight up gaslighting. Grow up. Tired seeing those fanbois who are crying on over spill milk. Before you bombarded me with bullshit. I never said or implied you should eat whatever bullshit they come up with. All I'm saying is accept reality and not gaslighting yourself as "Not canon". That's called not mature, that's escaping the truth.
Heres the thing, though: I dont think the NCR as a whole is gone. I think the fall of shady sands is probably linked to the first campaign to take Hoover Dam. Perhaps putting so much rescourses and attention on the Mojave caused infighting and rescource strain. Which could be considered the fall. The nuking came later. Also, Shady Sands is by no means the entire NCR. They are spread out far. So after losing Shady Sands, they would likely look to establish a new capital elsewhere. They might be stable, just not present in the Shady Sands area where a second apocalypse happened. That being said, I hope they dont delve any further into the New Vegas area and stick to new regions. The show is already causing shockwaves through continuity.
NCR could totally survive losing shady sands, but in the show they some kind of remnant that has no functioning society. Only way thatd make sense to me is that NCR were curb stomped by an outside force. NCR was established, large and growing. They don't just vanish in 15 years.
It's clear that Maximus will at least try to reanimate the spirit of the NCR, I assume this by the last words of the main antagonist and the reaction of Maximus (he was a former Shady Sands citizen too)
@@RedStar441 I have been thinking that the North could be NCR controlled out of New Reno, so the South is mostly or maybe completely out of NCR control, so it is just the North California Republic, So the NCR could still exist in a different form, and just the larger NCR has fallen
Bethesda are so clearly jealous of hearing their shit stories being compared to 1, 2 and NV so are now shitting all over any lore established by anyone but them. Bethesda fans are lapping it up cause their beloved Todd Howard has said its canon. Actually fallout fans (people who like the OG fallout) like myself are pissed off with the huge retcons though.
I'll be honest I didn't think they would even mention the previous games. I also believe that hardcore fans would never be happy if it was a TV show or a new game they will always be content with the Og games. I feel like the NCR would have been defeated eventually and the wasteland would change. It's not gonna be the same as 1, 2 or NV.
If they had said the show is canon but it’s a separate canon from the games then I’d have no probs with the show. The fact they said it’s canon isn’t a huge middle finger to all non Bethesda games
I'm a brotherhood of steel fan, Fallout 3 BoS was my favorite, the first faction I joined in F4 was the BoS and I still hate a lot of things from the show while there's some things I like from it.
I'm a huge BOS fan but I gotta agree. In almost every game the BOS a huge super power. The only game that changed this was NV because in that game the BOS was a small, struggling group, but then in the show they somehow bounced back and became a super power again...
I feel like the Bethesda destroyed the NCR and New Vegas out of spite. The best game in their franchise wasn't made by them so they're making the game irrelevant to the lore. This is just Bethesda taking revenge.
@@mbbb169 they are pulling away from their decision. They totally meant for it to be but once they saw it made people upset they cooked up a bs excuse.
@@mbbb169 my proof is in the pudding. Why the hell would a small rag tag group of raiders be sporting the NCR flag if the NCR wasn’t gone. If it’s still around, where is it?
@@chaz_eptv1430 That’s like checking one room in a hotel, seeing it’s empty and assuming that the rest of the hotel is vacant. NCR territory is massive. You’re talking about a small percentage of that territory.
Yeah it's so over, the show was good but entirely retconning the best installation in the series?💀 Bethesda having the gall to canonize this show clearly shows they are actively distancing themselves from earlier games.
lol nothing was retconned fanboy, take your rose tinted glasses off for a second and watch the show again. If it’s too difficult go read what Todd Howard and the original creators of fallout games said about the show.
@The__Furry_One I wouldn't dictate if a show is good or not based on mainstream appeal when some of the most popular media for example Marvel is utter dogshit slop, however as I said I liked the show for the most part. Now tell me how reducing New Vegas into a destroyed battleground (see the backdrop for the credits) and deleting the NCR from existense in 15 years of time in canon won't make the entite plot and endings of Fallout New Vegas completely meaningless? The writers won't even have to play the game to write the plot for season 2 because they have been given such a clean slate to work on, awfully convenient Isn't it?
@@Silas_Ames I think you have already received a good enough explanation by the user the furry one. Nothing is retconned, nuke happened after the game, ncr got nuked but the faction is more than just shady sands, and new Vegas being a warzone will be explained next season. No game location stays pristine for long in a word were giant lizards roam around and people kill each other for sport.
@The__Furry_One I mean at least to me the show is very well constructed as it's own thing. It's just as an addition to the rest of Fallout its not working and the writers clearly on did some cursory research for some things. Shady Sands should be several days travel inland, not next to the Boneyard (which is never what they call LA). The Nuking of Shady Sands is literally just dumb. The Villains motivations make no sense. How the frick did he get a warhead of that size INTO THE MIDDLE OF A CITY WITHOUT ANYONE NOTICING. Basically the whole population of the Fallout world would try to have Geiger counters on them at all times. TL;DR They Nuke Shady Sands so they can go "aaaa, NCR is Kill, Brotherhood stronk". There was already an NCR and Brotherhood war, and the Brotherhood lost. The reason Shady Sands has to get nuked is so the Power Armor wearing nerds can be the poster boys again. Not for any actual narrative reason. Not for "themes" it was solely done because Power Armor cool. Also Shady Sands had like 20k people? The NCR governed over 700k people. By the very nature of resource scarcity in the Post-Apocalypse the NCR is very spread out. It's clear the showrunners don't give two shits about the NCR because the NCR don't even dress like the NCR, they look like generic raiders for petes sake.
But the sign said that Shaddy Sands was the "first capitol" so we could asume that they moved the capitol into a different region inside the NCR and the southern California region of the NCR is the only region in ruin while the rest are still intact.
They should’ve just put the Show in completely another Universe than the Games, Pull whatever you need from what came before but leave the established canon alone. I’m still hoping that they do this for Season 2.
that would make no sense, you realize how far Massachusets is from Arizona? why go so far down East when you can easily move a few miles away to make a change
This is almost as petty as the creators Invincible saying that Mark can defeat Superman and what’s worse is that there’s a uncomfortable number of people who agree with them
Emperor Mark could beat the First Superman pretty easily, So It’s technically correct. Emperor Mark could also beat DCEU Superman pretty easily, So it’s technically correct. Emperor Mark could beat Flashpoint Superman pretty easily, So it’s technically correct. There you go, 3 Supermen that would be defeated by Mark.
They should’ve just put the Show in completely another Universe than the Games, Pull whatever you need from what came before but leave the established canon alone. I’m still hoping that they do this for Season 2.
@@therealmr.incredible3179 this would leave us with what I like to call a "Disney Effect" but on a smaller scale obviously basically Disney takes certain fairytales often cutting out darker elements or parts that they don't like now all too them freedom of expression and all however the issue is that these Fairytales that Disney does somewhat become de facto within the public folk's concesnous and override the origional darker versions that's what might happen here since many would see the Fallout TV show as cannon and this would cause arguments
They should’ve just put the Show in completely another Universe than the Games, Pull whatever you need from what came before but leave the established canon alone. I’m still hoping that they do this for Season 2.
What’s even worse is the fact that so many of the fans are defending the lore inconsistencies. Nobody cares about continuity anymore, and it’s freaking annoying.
@@darkmooned4373they have flat out said that it’s canon. See…that’s part of the problem. Every single fandom has too many people that just want to “consume product” and get a cheap dopamine hit instead of demanding continuity consistency and lore accuracy. Then they villainize the fans that actually love that IP and want it to be accurate.
even if the games were canon this move still erases everything those games built so its still fucks fans of the game and the overall lore of NV. Thanks Todd.
@@EdgeO419 yes undoing the progress of Interesting conflict instead of Organically Evolving it. I bet bethesda would ignore a lot of character and faction that play important roles in FNV or worse. Misrepresent its character to be a puddle deep carboard cutout for Memberberries
By having the NCR civ destroyed they pretty much drew all over the Fallout 1/2 teams Mona Lisa. With crayons, like madmen. Junktown, The Hub, New Reno, Shady Sands etc. All gone as the BOS black dude says (didnt work out, cant even remember his name such bland writing). And replaced with vault 4 and the cyclops and ofc the frozen managers of vault tec in 31. Lol what they did to the lore. They could have placed it in the midwest etc if they didnt want to respect what came before. Instead they threw manure all over art. It will never be my Fallout that is for sure. But as disrespectful fan fiction? Sure it was worth a watch.
To be honest I can see the NCR being taken down. When I played New Vegas I saw them as going downhill and losing power all their wealth being drained and falling apart. The show is many years after New Vegas and so the NCR just dying out to me is not a wild choice. It's also a choice in the game, hell most playthroughs I did I went against the NCR
@@Amanitalandjust because the USA left Afghanistan doesnt mean the USA doesnt exist anymore. The NCR is in California. Yes it also has troops in New Vegas but that isnt the NCRs home citites and armies.
There's only one viable answer: the courier took over, without upgrading or activating the securitron army, killed the sub factions, and destroyed the dam. Turns out you can't take two bullets in the head without suffering some heavy sort of brain damage
They way people look down on anyone who actually has a hint of memory of Fallouts events is driving a huge divide through the community. There really are two different Fallouts.
Bruh did you even read the full quote Nolan said he wasn't gonna please all the fans so he wasn't gonna try to He's making a show thats good tv first lore second. People are up in arms over the # on a black board can you imagine if he tried shilling to fans instead of making good tv
The director said that “he had not intention of making something aimed to pleasure the fans… because everybody experience in Fallout is different” What he was trying to say is that a Good natured player who acts like a saint will have expectations completely different from one who takes the raider path, or that someone who collect every piece of junk he can find won’t be happy if the Main character won’t do so because for her “it’s just useless crap”. In particular, he was talking about the show having a “scale of grays” overall morality thanks to the two co-protagonists involvement that won’t please neither mrs “goody-two-shoes” nor “deranged psychos who embrace the wasteland vibes” You have been “title-baited” by gaming journalists who conveniently kept only the first part of his statement in order to gain visibility out of shitstorms and retweet-rants.
@@mbbb169 OK. First, what happened to your comment? Second, what happened to my comment? Third, it is the capital of the NCR. Why are the BoS and the Enclave always at full power in the Bethesda titles?
The easiest thing to do is completely disassociate the Bethesda games from the other games and keep them , in your head, as two separate storylines. Fallout 1,2 and NV as one timeline and fallout 3, 4 and 76 as a different timeline.
Just one question: where is Shady Sands? Fallout 1 & 2 have it hundreds of miles north of the Boneyard (LA). The show seems to show that the Shady Sands that was nuked was in Los Angeles itself or somewhere nearby. Was Shady Sands moved from its original location between Fallout 2 and the show? Or is this a straight retcon?
Why tease Season 2 being set in New Vegas if you're just gonna destroy some of the best opportunities for storytelling, bad enough they did the NCR so dirty, but literally destroying Vegas itself, smh shame
@hermos3602 That chaos happens if you don't update the Securitrons with House's upgrades. If you do, it's resolved quickly. Also this ending assumes the Courier is fucking stupid and does NOTHING with the factions at all or any side quests. It's retarded. As to the Tunnelers, It's never confirmed they kill Vegas just that they are on the way potentially. And it's from a random not a main character. That STILL wouldn't explain Vegas being in utter ruins. Tunnelers aren't the Legion or NCR.
@@mbbb169 The nuke, don't suggest that they conveniently left out the date of the nuke in a History class and that it isn't clearly stating that the nuke fell in 2277, especially when lucy stated her mother died in 2277. It was ridiculously obvious that those two were meant to hint at them being tied together. They HAD to come out and Tweet that the nuke actually dropped AFTER New Vegas because they fucked up the lore, they wouldn't have done that if it was intentional/a bait and switch
Ah yes the "Not a real fan" comment. You sound luke a petty manchild. There's no such thing as a "true fan". You're either a fan of something or not. It doesn't matter if you've been with Fallout since the beginning or since Bethesda bought the IP. I don't know why it's hard for the fanboys to accept that some of the fans are going to like different things.
I honestly don't think we're going to see Mr house in Season 2. I think it's going to be alluded to that House is there, and just when it gets to the reveal. Yes man pops up on screen
Thinking the same thing. Yes Man at the end of New Vegas said he’s going to nap for a while, so maybe the current state of Vegas is because of that. Regardless of the Couriers actions, other people of the Mojave exists. We the Courier, can die. The wasteland is a cruel place and only reason why we’re even able to try and get the best ending to begin with is because of safe files lol. Maybe a couple years things might’ve been going okay, but eventually all good things come to an end.
Honestly, that would be a funny twist if they didnt just destroy vegas. Yes Man "taking a nap for a while" doesnt mean vegas should be destroyed. The courier still had power, plus there are securitrons.
1. I wouldn't trust the Credit Animations if i were you. The previous episodes had the Fiddler Radio station be destroyed in credit sequence and the next episode had the radio station being completely fine in Episode 7. Not to mention many of details in Credit Sequence is different from the actual scenes from the show. 2. The Fall of Shady Sands coincides with the decline of political situation of the NCR which is mentioned in New Vegas. Not the bombing itself. 3. The NCR Moved it's capitol to the Hub. The NCR could still be very well alive.
Agreed on the credits, it’s circumstantial as for the remaining points. What do you think is more likely, that the show creators just didn’t like the look of a nuke drawn on top of that date so they made an arrow OR the “fall of shady sands” represents an interpretive moment of no return where the city fell…NOT referencing the Nuke that is a central plot point to the series!? The tv show is about how the NCR fell!?! It’s essential to the narrative, this is cope and it’s weird to see
@@VideoGameSophistry Well the show takes place in 2296, Max is in his early 20's, around the same age as Lucy, who by the show is stated to be just turning 21. Lucy would have been born in 2275 and was about 4-6 from the looks of it went to Shady Sands, putting her there about 2279-2281. Also during this time the NCR was getting pretty thin with it's failure and troubles in the Mojave, and was currently under decline because of corruption and overwhelming bureaucracy as mentioned a few times in FNV. 2277 was the the beginning of the fall of Shady Sands and the NCR, and my guess that is why they were desperate for finding a new energy source to control in FNV. Max was about 10 when Shady Sands was nuked, so that would put it between 2281-2286 depending on his lowball age being 20 to highball it to about 24. We know he's young and just becoming a squire, which doesn't usually happen to anyone over their early 20's in canon. There is also the fact that a Bethesda writer has said that Fallout NV is canon and the timeline hasn't changed. Now which ending with be Canon in the show's universe is anyone's guess. But I'm going with a variation of The House Always Wins or a twist on the Yes Man ending. With how the NCR is I can't see their ending, and if it were the Legion Ending, I don't see the events of Shady Sands being nuked play out the way they do in the show.
@@ravinous Mark my words, they will likely turn the Courier into a psycho who nuked both the NCR and the Legion. This bears way too many red flags and Bathesda's hate for the Fallout games that aren't their doing is painfully obvious and widely known.
@@marcussawyer4751 Bethesda and the rest of the Fallout Devs are in good relations. What are you talking about? Josh Sawyer himself even defended the show and the canon. So as Tim Cain; The creator of the game series. Their only complains was the fans sending death threats to former devs. The myth of Bethesda "hating" Obsidian was because of the bonus they supposed to receive if it reaches the highest score. Otherwise, Bethesda had to save Obsidian's ass in the development of FNV because they became to over ambitious with the content and had to delay the game several times because of them.
@@munanchoinc Except Bethesda always shows utter contempt and annoyance at the fans who prefere New Vegas, Fallout 1 and 2, constantly shitting on them and labeling those players as bigots/toxic etc. Also whenever i see the claim of death threats in these situations it's either a no receipts scenario or actual criticism and animosity blown out of proportions, but i will definitely look into it. For one, the company that made the Fallout tabletop game had the New Vegas setting basically ready and Bethesda literally forced them to scrap it, and to this day there still is no New Vegas(not that i really care about a game of that type, would be more irked if they released roleplaying system for everything but New Vegas). And don't try the gaslighting and handwaving of "oh but they actually are in good relations", we already know how Bethesda literally refused a New Vegas 2 proposed by Obsidian, and how there's been multiple other tensions and conflicts between both teams. I hope the second season will not shit on New Vegas and its characters just to elevate the new ones, but the direction it is all heading in, isn't one of the most reassuring. They already show House as in on the nukes, if reluctant, which opens a big plot hole almost as big as Shady Sands being leveled and the NCR completely dissolving(other than Sinclair not being accurate)... originally, House predicted it but didn't know when it would happen and was not able to activate all the defenses; This show has him know it was coming by directly placing him in the damn board meeting, explain to me how could he be surprised and unable to activate all of the defenses of the city, if that's the case.
Let's call this series what it is: lazy writing. Somehow, a 2024 TV show felt less alive than the original 1997 PC game. Bethesda and the showrunners were too lazy to write any actually intelligent narrative incorporating fleshed-out, functional, conflicting societies, so they decided to *literally* NUKE everything and send the Fallout universe back to the beginning to nothing but literal wastelands. They don't want a complex world - that's too hard. They want a simple one of nothingness going on on a macro-scale.
That’s disappointing because in spite of the inconsistencies between Elder Scrolls games, such as the climate of different provinces within a few years’ time, Morrowind and Oblivion had variety in their respective worlds. Even saying “Oblivion with guns” is misleading since Oblivion has communities as part of a large medieval society, not a wasteland. Actual large medieval cities in it. Or even just small Taverns by the Roadsides.
that's almost as stupid as what the writers did in this show, why would the NCR leave when the Courier basically handed all they wanted on a plate? it's like being given a house and the moment the previous owner left, you let a bunch of homeless and drug addicts trash your newly acquired house.
I hope the strip isn't destroyed. I understand Vegas is set in the far enough future that any game ending could be canon. But it's a waste to deny one of the franchise most unique setting.
Of course New Vegas is wrecked in the show because Bethesda execs are petty enough to continue being envious of the fact that Obsidian made a better Fallout game than they did or ever will.
“the Fall of Shady Sands” could simply mean the beginning of its decline. The timeline shows the “fall” in 2277. But then the nuke goes off at a different time than that, is the idea. For instance, the “fall” appears to have driven many residents of Shady Sands underground into Vault 4, one of the plotlines from later in the series. This also aligns with Maximus’s apparent age both in the show and when the nuke went off in Shady Sands.
@@VideoGameSophistry Yes. .__. People would absolutely look at Shady Sands and say, "What happened that caused this?", and then they would point to the FIRST event that transpired in Shady Sands (say the arrival of a specific person, or a notable political event that tipped the scales), and say "This event at this date was what started the Fall of Shady Sands". That is *LITERALLY* what people do in every single other movie or tv show *ever* when they introduce or discuss the fall of anything. It's a well-established rhetoric that all of cinema uses. Not the final event when a nuclear bomb blew the city to smithereens, but the date of when things started, before everything figuratively and literally blew out of proportion.
@@VideoGameSophistry That's literally how timelines work haha You don't write "event happens w/ date" and then arrow moving to the next event and assume that the next event happened on the same date as the previous one. Fallout 1 is released 1997 ----------> Fallout 2 is released 1998 -----------> Fallout 3 begins development Based off of that example, are you telling me that Fallout 3 begins development in 1998 It was left ambiguous on purpose.
@@VideoGameSophistry I think the Timeline is something that is very poorly communicated, they very specifically said Fall, the time coincidence with their entering of the Mojave which the residents of vault 4 looking back probably would consider a fall as it began a war that would take a lot of resources. The Nuke is listed after the Fall, the timeline is also in a classroom, so for now that means it could just be wrong Basically they thought it would be a good way to show some lore, but it was poorly communicated and miss read by the community
Fallout 3 I liked a lot. A lot of people dislike it because it's one of the many games that focuses on the BOS but otherwise it's a nice game. Fallout 4 wasn't perfect but it added a lot of huge and notable features that deserve recognition. We don't talk about the other game though...
I’d argue that the 2277 date is more marking the start of the fall of the NCR mostly bc by time New Vegas is taking place most people know the NCR is rather corrupt and struggles to take action against matters in the Mojave. So I personally believe that the end of New Vegas (the game) is what ended the NCR depending on one of the endings most likely the House or Legion ending.
You make too many assumptions. To me, New Vegas being owned by House is cannon, I mean, " the House always wins " and it's the most logical questline to follow in the game. House was asleep for many many years before revealing himself to the Mojave and incorporating families and such, at most he was awake for a few years so we only got to see some part of his personnality. Who could say what could have happened between 2281 and 2296 ? It's a lot of time. The NCR being destroyed is also logical. In FNV we learn that they aren't as strong as they used to be and that corruption is rampant. In 2277 Shady Sands started falling into despair until a few years later Hank dropped the bomb on Shady Sands, likely after the NCR defeat in the Mojave. Not at the hands of the Legion, but at the handsof Ulysses and the Courrier who, in my head cannon, dropped the nukes on both the NCR and Caesar's legion. House is controlling the whole of the Mojave, is in possession of the dam and Nellis AFB. The fact that they showed House disagreeing in a meeting in the TV show is enough for me to know that we'll see him again. I won't even mind if they make him young so that we can cast away the fact that his cryo tech was shit compared to Vault-Tec
You make too many speculation on your shady sands point, also if house are in on it for the vault tec plan, at least knowing the details. Why did he missed calculation about the bombs drop and had the platinum chip come too late
@@mangolaplom874 “Too much speculation”? Bro, there’s literally an arrow that points to the mushroom cloud on that billboard in the classroom scene. That obviously means the bomb happened after 2277. If there was no arrow, I would agree a bit with the idea of retconning but the fact there’s continuity in that written timeline obviously means it happened after 2277 and given how that correlates with official word, it’s not speculation if it’s a fact that is right in front of you.
@@ll3435_ he using headcanon that NCR defeated in mojave by Ulysess. Even with internal Problem NCR is still powerful faction. Their problem just how theyre spread all over, miscommunication and Hard to allocate their resources to focus on many problem. We never got a clear hint which one that cause the Fall in the capital
@@ll3435_ but for you argument, i'll say. why dont They write the exact date for the bomb ? Because showing The Fall of Shady sands isnt relevant information isnt ? The shit already happened. Why create confusion
Hear me out, and imo it is most likely a retcon but I'll point it out regardless; the Shady Sands we know was originally situated in the far north of LA, near or in Death Valley National Park. In Fallout 1, Shady Sands is portrayed as being in a barren desert, hence all the man made adobe-like structures instead of skyscrapers like we see in the show, which takes place in Los Angelas. Which itself is a retcon, as LA in Fallout is supposed to be the Boneyard, an extremely prominent NCR city. So either A (and most likely) : The showrunners did in fact retcon the original two fallouts and New Vegas and moved Shady Sands to Los Angelas while simultaneously erasing the Boneyard from lore and nuked it, effectively wiping out the NCR entirely from canon. Or B (The Copium option): Shady Sands that got nuked in LA maybe was the "original" Shady Sands and the "real" one is still in its original location up north and is untouched, meaning the NCR still lives in some capacity.
@@oldylad idk but it seems like everyone who is a supposed "fan" of Fallout 1 and 2 conveniently forgot that Shady Sands isn't in LA and the Boneyard exists as a completely separate city.
I saw a comment about tunnelers.. that they might be the reason it's destroyed. Makes a lot of sense, because no matter the ending.. they would eventually get there and destroy everything.
My thoughts were this. The 2277 "fall" was a shortage of some kind of resource. That's why 4 years later the Battle of Hoover Dam was so important for the NCR. In the case of New Vegas looking rather run down it could either be reusing assets (something we know US TV shows do frequently) or neither the NCR or House won the Battle of Hoover Dam. This could in theory mean the Yes Man or the Caesar ending is canon. What we're shown doesn't automatically imply that New Vegas (and FO1 and FO2 by extension) aren't canon, just that it not be the ending we thought was canon. It's all entirely up to speculation until we get Season 2, though. I think they knew this was going to get people talking and devised it to be the way it is on purpose, but I'm just hoping that those of us doubting it retconned New Vegas are right.
Actually, I may have spoke too soon, regarding my earlier comment. And since I can't edit comments on my phone, I'll just make a new one. I can see a reason for New Vegas being deserted. Tunnelers from the Divide. I hate to say it, but this might be what we're seeing. And it makes sense for them no to be shown in the daylight shot, since they're sensitive to light Time will tell
Also, the Cloud from the Sierra Madre. Though, we don't see a whole lot of evidence of that yet. With the deathclaw skull being shown, and it being said that tunnelers could take deathclaws, I think this is pointing in that direction. There were always existential threats to New Vegas, and if the NCR was crippled beforehand and the flow of caps and troops to the Mojave was shut off, then there would be no New Vegas. A little bit of hope is shining through, but it's not much.
I keep seeing defenders of this show who can’t let any criticism take place say that the destruction of Shady Sands doesn’t mean the NCR is gone. In episode 5 when they go to Shady Sands and Lucy finds out about the existence of the NCR, Maximus says it didn’t work out. The context of the conversation clearly indicates he’s talking about the NCR and not just Shady Sands. This show is ok at best even without any lore inconsistencies so I don’t know why people are trying to defend it to the death.
@@fredrik3880LA was also supposed to be part of the NCR, and yet we didn't get any info as to why it's empty. Unless of course they're retconning SS to be located within LA, so my point is moot regardless.
"Stylized" being the keyword, to me. I'm not too concerned here. Similar for the destruction of Shady Sands- another capital will have been established, routing and hunting down the Legion all the more important to NCR because of what happened (Shady Sands) four years prior. Only thing I expect we may see is them tip-toeing around anything Obsidian somehow has, legally, with New Vegas that Bethesda does not (doubtful circumstance but I'm no legal expert).
Beth is the publisher and has the rights to it so they’re not really “tiptoeing” around. Also, wouldn’t make sense as Kimball was still running things there since his first election in 2273 and we actually get to see him again in 2281 on Hoover Dam. I just wish we knew precisely what went down in 2277 on Shady Sands and then the arrow pointing at the nuke as some are coping that 2277 wasn’t the nuke.
@@Gambit0590 all mentions of shady sands in New Vegas speaks as though it wasn’t ever nuked. And also, Tandi’s house is pretty much the NCR equivalent to our White House.
Fallout is a smarter franchise than Star Wars. But we are seeing a repeat of pandering and “fixing” content for the new audience. The show runners chose to do this to tell a BS story. But remember they all answer to the HOUSE papa MICROSOFT so unless Amazon is paying BANK…. I see a new Vegas remaster or 2 being on the table as NEW VEGAS and NCR trended and we’re all the talking points people said and MICROSOFT likes MONEY MONEY. I mean the show is literally made for fallout 4 and 76 fans sooo much that BETHESDA has a FALLOUT 4 next gen update and people are BUYING and STREAMING those GAMES in PARTICULAR. I’m telling you in the next 10 years at most you will get a new Vegas remaster - remake or a sequel because MICROSOFT needs to save the single player aspect of the franchise asap
Tod said it himself; Shady Sand bombing happened a few years after New Vegas, beside it only season 1 they have plenty of time to answer all those questions... its too early to say they destroy ncr n new vegas...
I think a lot of people are spoiled about getting answers immediately in shows and games and don’t have the media literacy nor patience to wait or look for them
they could've just made a show in a different state and all this BS would've been easily avoided, but no.... Bethesda just had to rewrite the West Coast lore.
The show is like 14 years after New Vegas. And you don't know what alliances they are going to cannon from the game, if we see House in new vegas next season then we will know. Also with shady sands, no one said that the Nuke at Shady was the end of the NCR. in New Vegas the NCR elections are being held in the Boneyard not Shady. So it does fit in that Shady is no longer the Capital by that point. Just because a few characters offhand mention Shady in Vegas doesn't mean it hadn't been destroyed by that point.
Sounds like cope. The show states the NCR was destroyed and for some reason what’s left of the NCR are now weird cultists As for Mr House. He says in new Vegas than he predicted the Great War and did everything he could to protect Vegas which the show totally retconed cause now he was privy to vault tech deciding to nuke the earth
They’ll be lazy and make the most uninteresting decisions. NCR rules, Mr. House died and we can’t see his future which is far more interesting and exciting to think about than oh it’s the US corruption again yay…
FALLOUT: DUST the mod for New Vegas everything we see falls right in line to use it's storyline. House is dead as well as the courier and New Vegas is covered in a deadlier toxic cloud that came from the Sierra Madre and the entire region is crawling with Tunnelers from The Divide.
My theory is that they're going for a "the viewer never played New Vegas" approach - none of the Courier's actions happened. Caesar's Legion succeeds in taking Hoover Dam, but Caesar is killed by the brain tumour and the Legion under Lanius collapses trying to occupy Vegas, which results in the destruction of the city, the death of House, and the NCR withdrawing from the region.
Just finished watching last night, and after a very long winded attempt to convince myself and my Fallout loving partner that they haven't retconned the non Bethesda stuff, I've decided that they totally did. And not just that, but they did it maliciously and deliberately. There are just enough easter eggs from the original content to show that they are very much aware of what the fans really want to see, and they're dropping them in to try to gaslight us all into thinking they're respecting the OC. But they are also very specifically leaving out and actively contradicting the earlier lore. There is just too much of both of these things for me to believe that they are doing it accidentally. They're being jealous little babies and trying to retcon the original stuff out of existence because they're sad that we don't like their stuff as much. The irony that they're doing it while telling a story about the shallow evils of capitalism is quite frankly amazing.
There is no progress in Bethesda's world. There is no future. Every year is year zero. Every new game is starting over from nothing, and now the show is that way too. A dead New Vegas is a dead Fallout to me. After the bad story of F4, the trashfire of 76, and the soulless state of Starfield, I don't have any hope for the future of their franchises.
This literally was idea of Chris Avellone, he himself wrote this on Twitter. He doesn't like a Fallout where are Pre-War cities because is not fallout anymore. All of you are traumatized by Todd Coward
@@cristobalsapiain2709 so because he doesn’t like a fallout with pre war cities. Fallout is going to be the same forever, no one is allowed to actually achieve anything? Tribals, raiders, enclave, brotherhood. That’s all fallout is allowed to be forever. That’s totally smart and interesting
@@420_blaise_it6absolutely yes, is the heart of the entire franchise a dead and ugly wasteland, that's one of the reasons why Fallout 76 sucks too. Imagine a game where everything is solved, it becomes The Sims. There's no fallout without death and destruction
@@420_blaise_it6also the end of the franchise will be when humanity recover from the Great War or simply when they end of killing each other until total extinction
one could say that the fall of shady sands 2077 means that the "fall of fallout" starts with fallout 3 which takes place in 2077. It rigged from the start!
I think they're going to destroy most of new vegas and factions. Unfortunately they mostly destroyed and rewrote all the main factions in order to pave the way for their show.. If they gut the new vegas story, the show will lose a massive audience.
I do actually think its still canon, the nuke was dropped on shady sands in the 80s so it makes sense that its not discussed in New Vegas (So the bomb goes off after the game) - and the nuking of Shady sands may also explain the dereliction of New Vegas at the end of EP 8. The series takes place 16 years after New Vegas, which would fit well with the age of Maximus and the timeline of the bombing of shady sands
![CAMPปลิ้น | รวม Highlight 2024! PART [1/2]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/6hnvNnvYloU/mqdefault.jpg)
For anyone who reads the timeline as '2277 The Fall of Shady Sands' and DOESN'T think that is referring to the LITERAL NUKE that dropped on the city........when do we refer to the destruction of Nagasaki and Hiroshima? Is it Pearl Harbour or when America dropped a nuke on them? Moreover, even if you contort your brain to somehow think that makes sense.
Is it really better that the NCR was destroy by this Vault employee instead of the political forces that several games tried to build up? It doesn't bother you that they NUKED something that made these games actually interesting?!
It’s just cope
No it doesn’t bother me that they are weakening the most powerful faction on the west coast. That presents an opportunity for the power dynamics to change and change is interesting. Also there isn’t any evidence that the ncr was destroyed, just that it was weakened and it’s impossible to say how much at this point. After all shady sands is just 1 city across a huge amount of territory. Severely weakened? Probably , but there is no conclusive evidence that it is destroyed.
Also, Hank nuking Shady Sands is entirely plausible… it’s not like this is the first vault dweller to ever leave a vault and nuke a town. It’s happened before and I’m sure it will happen again.
And another thing as long as I have you here… I’ll bet we find out Hank didn’t nuke Shady Sands because of a domestic dispute but instead did it because he was ordered to, or maybe he didn’t nuke it at all but had knowledge it was going to be nuked so he went there to save his family. You are making all these assumptions with only a small part of the story. Even if the show ends next season you still only have half the story right now. And if it goes 5 seasons you only have 20 percent of the story. Just to reiterate even if Hank does turn out to have nuked shady sands simply because of a domestic dispute that is still a very fallout thing to have happened. Who knows. Maybe the fall of the ncr will give us an even more interesting west coast fallout experience, instead of one where the NCR just dominates everyone
amazing video, this lore butchering will not go unnoticed I don't know if you will ever see this but we support you a lot of people do. The people in the comments some of them are bots, or people that are misinformed people that don't know about F1 F2 FNV, naive people or Bethesda Fans maybe retarded Fallout Fans. Amazon might be paying other TH-camrs but something fishy is going on here, comment bots.
the board is badly explain but the nuke was not in 77 is in the 80s the show runner confirm new vegas is cannon the show the last episode confirms new vegas is cannon and the fallout wiki confirms the bomb was in the 80s .
I really don't think the NCR is completely gone. Sure, Shady Sands was the main base, but that can definitely change, especially with whatever ending they want to make Canon for season 2. We did see NCR gear still.
Bethesda just wants fallout to be a mad max style scavengers paradise, while the classic fallouts were all about seeing the world recuperating from an outsider’s perspective. Obsidian continued the trend (somewhat) with the small towns of the mojave and the new vegas strip. But Bethesda just has to get rid of any civilisation. And for what? I can assure you it would be much more enjoyable to watch the characters actually talk to Vegas locals instead of just looking round a bunch of ruins while Cooper spouts exposition about securitrons or something.
B-b-but the brotherhood of steel HAS to be at the center of attention in fallout, always! We at Bethesda hate civilization rebuilding, even if the bombs were dropped 50,000 years ago! We need more power armor variants!
I'm a BOS fan but I agree. The BOS of steel is the only big faction to NEVER take a hit. The enclave, institute, and NCR all get decimated at one point but the BOS just comes out on top somehow. It takes away depth and shows favoritism.
@@hamsterking2187the one exception I can think of is New Vegas.
@@alexwilbrecht6962the true fallout game
the brother hood of steel will ALWAYS come out on top is because Tod Howard just LOVES 💦🍆 the brotherhood of steel! those BOS-SOBs will always be around as bethestha is at the helm....
It's been 14 years since the fallout franchise has seen any major content involving west coast lore, New Vegas, or the NCR. Thus, it is very dissapointing that we are being reintroduced to them in their destroyed state. It's like they dug up the corpse just to show us it's dead. The NCR was the most powerful civilization in the wasteland and for them to go out like that is just lame and a disservice to fans. Same goes for New Vegas assuming it's destroyed as well.
The Legion was beating the shit out of them in New Vegas
@@cristobalsapiain2709 I';m pretty sure I destroyed the legion and the NCR was just fine ;-)
Oh quit being so melodramatic. It's a video game being made into a movie. Different mediums require different narratives. They can't stay 100% canon plus they have to make it appeal to a wider audience.
@@ZiddersRooFurryThen they should have made a better movie and the original fans should have been the priority.
They need to come out and say the show is an alternative timeline. Anything else is throwing poo on the art of f1, f2 and NV.
There's 0 chance season 2 writing does justice to new Vegas.
The only way they can do it justice is to just go the Arcane route and say that the TV canon is separate from the video game canon.
From what i heard this series takes place just after the events of New Vegas, and since they are going to go to New Vegas.... well... the Courier still has to be around right? I feel like that's the biggest corner they just pushed themselves against, there's many things they may not be able to do justice but the Courier is probably the biggest. Either way they go it will be disappointing. If they go the "The Nerevarine went to Akavir" route then it will be disappointing because they use lazy writing to remove the biggest player. If they make him show up and be incredibly weak so he doesn't steal the spotlight that's just straight up going to send fans into a frenzy. If they make him as competent as he actually is that's gonna leave the fans satisfied but it will completely steal the spotlight from the actual protagonists. That's why way i see it the safest choice is to just say that it's a separate canon and that the Courier doesn't exist in this canon. Because otherwise i see no way for them to actually write something that's gonna leave the fans happy.
@@Nightdreamrit takes place 13 years after new vegas
New Vegas is still canon
@@Nightdreamr Giving NV a canon ending is a dumb move to begin with. Doubly so if they try to fuck with the Courier.
@@hoked2194 I doubt theyll show the courier but since the show is canon they'll be forced to pick up a canon ending too
I'm hoping vegas isn't destroyed. It would be a slap in the face to all the fans. We spent countless hours aiding the Mojave.
I don't think it is going to be destroyed, probably shaken up, and the canon end is probably House wins
considering that in their "timeline" House launched the first nukes, I'd say it's likely going to be a wasteland with them locked up in a vault under Lucky 38.
This makes no sense why would it be a slap. I actually would prefer them to pick a ending and go through with it since there won’t be a return to new Vegas
I'm betting new Vegas is going to be in shambles when it's shown they're going to keep the lore of its downfall very minimum which will be a serious downer.
If it is it won't be classed as cannon simple as that, pretty sure the majority of new vegas player will agree
I also wanted to point out that the location of Shady Sands has been completely changed 200 miles south to LA. Wouldn't this cause a complete change of events in Fallout 1?
wait what? Shady sands is clearly defined on the FL 1 and 2 maps as being even North of San Fransisco wait huh
@@wikkano what I am trying to say here is that the location of Shady Sands in the show is completely different from F1 and F2. They moved the city to Los Angeles where the Boneyard is meant to be.
@@falloutboy6017 Shady Sands isn't in LA
@@badfoody Are you illiterate?
@@falloutboy6017 yeah I wasn't saying you thought that to be the case I was just forth putting evidence as to Shady Sand's true location
Another plot hole I noticed in the Fallout TV Show. How did Vault 33, Vault 32, Vault 31, and Vault 4 survived the events of Fallout 1? They’re literally located in the Master’s backyard. The Master would easily find these vaults and send his super mutant army to invade and wipe it out. No Vault was safe in California while the Master was around.
İ also thought it was odd they never show the Vaults from the first game considering how close it is geographically.
Fanfics and headcanon are not canon
@@theploot8230 IT IS CANON. TODD CONFIRMED IT.
The show is a reimagining while attempting to hold continuity with various other plotlines.
We haven't even seen a super mutant yet
@@theploot8230 Literally canon.
Looks like the canon ending for new vegas was the hidden ending where the courier and Father Elijah killed everyone with the gas and holograms
Well, they didn't confirm yet. In my opinion the independent Vegas ending was my favorite.
@@Amanitaland all hatred aside I’m assuming if they play it correctly they won’t state exactly what happened to keep the ending ambiguous. Like they’ll say how the legion did this or Mr house did that and so on but won’t give the exact answer on the courier’s decision as that’s what they did to the lone wanderer in fallout 4. I’m postive house will play a role somehow because there’s no other reason we can gleam from as to why Hank is going to new vegas unless he going to the courier which won’t happen. I believe that most likely lots of it will be left up to interpretation this season and planned it out for the next season as that was already greenlit before it even came out. Most likely they’ll explain some things and leave others out, also Bethesda if we compare their other games seems to be liking very bleak endings for the characters we meet in their games and factions. In fallout 3 the noble brotherhood became fanatics and people like Sarah were killed off. Skyrim shows the empire you saved in turmoil and in a civil war. Most likely they’ll portray a grime future for new vegas as well but one that could possibly occur (tunnellers, courier nuking shit, the rad storm and what not)
It’s suck too because I actually enjoyed the series besides the lore breaks.
@@Amanitalandindependent vegas explains why it's now in ruins.
Maybe it goes to Fallout: Dust route?
Nah, the canon ending is when the Courier nuked everyone at the end of the Divide
Honestly, when it comes to lore in video games you got to treat it like a jenga tower; cause if you move one thing out of line, like a date for example, it just all comes crashing down
They really didn't change any dates though. We know in New vegas that Shady sands and the NCR as a whole aren't doing too well. And they don't outright say that the bomb dropped in 2277 in the show.
That's why the tv show is a decade and a half after FNV. They have the liberty to decide certain things since time has gone by
@@Amanitaland yeah, but they could have made the fall of the NCR/Shady Sands happen a little after NV but before the show but didn’t, and now the lore timeline wise is a bit of a mess. So unless they fixed it in season 2 (which is wishful/hopeful thinking) then we have to see how the show runners of the show try to explain this or perhaps fix it
@@fransionseamor9368 But they didn't even mention that they completely fell or if the bomb was the reason. Hell they could have been weak at that point and then Shady Sands was destroyed. We need more info
@@Amanitaland true, but if they have basically a functioning government during 2277 (which is also the date of the first battle for Hoover dam in the world) then shouldn’t they also mention that being the reason? Then again, I did see someone point out that shady sands was the “first” capital for the ncr, but that doesn’t make sense since characters from new Vegas talk about politicians from shady sands. Either way, they got a lot of info they need to tell us in order to fix this mess and make it make sense in a way. Cause there seems to be a LOT of questions they just caused folks to have from this series who have played New Vegas
My problem is why would they set it in the NCR (and subsequently set season 2 in New Vegas) and not use any of the interesting lore established to be in that area? They honestly could have tweaked the show and set it anywhere else in the US. Fallout 4 deals with a government force that was wiped out that we never met at its height, they could have done the same here.
My point is it just feels like such a waste of the NCR and New Vegas. The New Vegas aspect especially stings because it makes it feel like all the choices from that game never mattered.
Well said. Disgusting.
Don't worry,there will be new solution and upgraded ways to handle those radiation soon. Do you have a nice racing car at your home now?
basically because they KNOW everything in NV makes the bethesda canon of 3 and 4 look like total shit.
Because Bethesda was sooo jealous of the success of New Vegas they litteraly nuked it all off the map.
@@immagangstaX10 lol,maybe it is the way they think
Bethesda has never really hidden their distain for Obsidian's success in the Franchise
God this bs has been put to bed so many times by both Obsidian and BGS.
How? How have they not hidden it?
Hey buddy nice try but it was OBSIDIANS LEAD WRITER that said wouldn't it be great if Shady sands and new vegas were to be destroyed to Todd Howard this was confirmed in an interview with both of them the other day so yall need to stop hating on Bethesda for Obsidians decision
@christianrowe992 where are you getting these sources?
@@painunending4610 we've seen multiple times people from BOTH sides saying that there was no such thing
Honestly I just wish show runners would flat out say something like this “it’s not Canon unless Bethesda wants it to be. We are just making a fun television show to see if fallout would be a good idea for a television series and the lore is more complex than i could expect my writers to understand every entry in the games. We decided it be better to make it not canonically so we can have an easier time with the writing process and focus on getting something for new and old fans alike. If they decide to make this canonically that up to Bethesda not us but we choose it to save us the headache of having to check the wiki and figuring out what is and isn’t canonically from the games.”
That be the best answer but honestly Hollywood is weird about just admitting they don’t have the luxury of taking time to check every single detail or whatever passive aggressive thing Tod Howard has with new Vegas.
They knowingly had the show take place on the west coast, so getting simple things right like the timeline is just dumb. They could have watched a fallout timeline video on youtube and it woukd have fixed this problem.
I will note here that you got something wrong: the “CEO of Big Mountain” who House makes fun of in the meeting, is Fredrick Sinclair, who IS NOT THE CEO OF BIG MT, he only ever bought a lot of equipment from them for the sierra madre. The show could not even be bothered to read Sinclairs wiki to find out that he was not a Big Mt executive.
To be fair you could easily consider that they would send him since his technologies were being developed at Big Mt and he was wealthy just like Mr.House. It's not that wild
@@Amanitaland people like you just make Obsidian and FNV Fans scratching their head because constantly defending the bullshit retcon by bugthesda and Todd "16x" Howard
@Amanitaland It's very wild. His finances are a mess, he has a very clear parasexual obsession with a Hollywood starlet and Big MT is using his Casino to test lethal technology on his guests without his knowledge. Not exactly a safe person to tell about your conspiracy to nuke the planet. It feels more like they chose him because he's a businessman associated with Big MT and they wanted the meeting to be about corporate greed without consideration to the story put out in Dead Money.
@Amanitaland Does Bethesda get it's biggest Creation Club whales to represent them?
@@theofrost1140 Yeah, I haven't played 4 or 76 in years. I am a fan of Fallout New Vegas and 3. I just played FNV enough to know that Sinclair is associated with Big Mountain and does have power. He also owned the Sierra Madre. It's not far-fetched the guy would be at that meeting.
My genocidal run is cannon!
My lonesome road ending is canon
No, the tunnelers are cannon. They were gonna destroy New Vegas in a few years AT MOST.
That’s what I’ve been saying, courier definitely dropped all of Ulysses nukes on both sides, news just been traveling slow because of it
@@brunoactis1104Ulysses says that if Vegas’ electric grid and lights stay on, it’ll combat the tunneller threat.
If I’m remembering correctly, tunnellers hate noise and bright light.
They’ll only be a threat, if something akin to the Sierra Madre’s toxic cloud covers the entire state or a dust storm from the divide engulfs the region, which we see no evidence of.
A dust storm ideally, would pass. But, the cloud? That stays there.
But, yeah I think this is a very interesting conversation to have.
Legion ending canon🗣🗣🗣🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
I hope Vegas isn’t destroyed.
I want to see Lucy get absolutely wasted at The Tops and get thrown out by Securitrons.
Lucy and The ghoul chould see actually meet mr house
And maybe even rebuild vegas but what I'm thinking is that a great battle happen in vegas between the NCR and houses army
My theory for Vegas is that what Ulysses said was right the Tunnelers would head east seeking new prey.
I like Chris Avellones writing but man is his Self-insert insufferable, and whats even worse you cant call him out on his bullshit with an intelligence or speech check, because he's the embodiment of his writer, so how can a writer criticize himself? Also i don't like how much Avellone hates the idea of Civilization developing back, how he just wrote up a million ways for Mojave and NCR to be destroyed in apocalyptic hellfire, while when you look back at the mojave none of that seems plausible, the mojave looks fine, not even a crack in the ground and only reason tunnelers were in divide is because the nukes cracked the ground open.
Avellones a heck of a writer but man is he biased, i could argue with Ulysses for hours why NCR and House aren't dead ends meanwhile my 10 INT character acts like a 5 year old in an argument.
And whats worst is Ulysses isn't smart at all, yes he has 11 INT, but all he does is fall into fallacies and talk in allegories using fancy words, which when you look into it, isn't anything special at all. His opinions aren't anything new. I've heard the same opinions from simple people of the wastes, while when he says them with fancy words and allegories and metaphors, all of a sudden he's too smart to be questioned at all.
I enjoyed Lonesome Road, i really did, the ending was very satisfying but man did i hate Ulysses' Pessimistic, Nihilist, Doomer look at the New World. Having an extensive talk with him could convince me the world is going to fall apart magnificently any moment now, if i didn't know any better.
that part always made me laugh, yeah the tunnelers will overrun the mojave when they can't even gang up on a single death claw, you realise the scripted shit in the dlc is a half dead severely nerfed claw right? if they're going to be a threat at least let us see why, they're all pushovers and we only see em in packs of 4 to 5, retarded shit
@@RabdoInternetGuy Here I will both agree and disagree with you.
It seems to me that the lore and general representation of New Vegas and the Mojave look quite appropriate. You are shown a slowly reviving society that is faced with the first civilizational and political challenge - when conditional democracy faces conditional tyranny (by the word conditional, I first of all mean that these are not clearly expressed political thoughts, but rather a consequence of state building in a post-apocalyptic society from those materials that generally exist). They tell you that the Mojave is a cruel place, it’s difficult to live here, but people do not lose faith and hope, and I willingly believe that for them the year 2281 looks much more optimistic than everything that came before. After all, before there was no NKR or House, there were only isolated communes that survived on their own and which did not represent anything special. Now, despite all the suffering and horrors, society is again beginning the path to unification. Communes are turning into small states and countries. Destroyed villages are being transformed into sustainable settlements. Trade turns from rare to constant.
But as for Avellone, he is a good screenwriter, but not only an asshole, but also an asshole as a screenwriter. He very often puts things into the script that he wants to see. Avellone does not like cats - he writes that according to the lore they were exterminated, although this is hard to believe. Avellone says that romance in games is stupid (although in fact games as media have long learned to competently show romance and chemistry of characters) - and therefore his charismatic heroes cannot create any lasting connections with each other.
And this is not to mention the fact that other people always work on the text and script, but he stupidly appropriated their work for himself.
@@Крэйден_х I understand where you come from, and now i kinda understand why Ulysses had to be atleast a little bit pessimistic, because he's the total Antithesis to the player. For the player Mojave is a relatively new world, a new experience, and Naturally when you find something with potential and possibility of success, you want that place to live up to its potential. But for Ulysses, the Mojave is the same as all other place Legion has conquered, due to his line of work in the Legion, he doesn't exactly engage in friendly conversation with locals or really have a personal relationship with them, thus he fills in the blanks he doesn't know with familiarity of the other places he visited, so of course Mojave's future would look grim if everything else you saw in your life was grim. The player is Naturally in most their characters optimistic, even when supoorting atrocities, the player makes moral justification for the Character to do it. While Ulysses just looks at things objectively, and even if he knows he's repeating history and doing wrong, he still does it, he probably believes in predestination or destiny or something like that. For him all choices are empty. Ulysses really has no reason to be optimistic because all his life he saw and read about atrocities, catastrophes and what lead to them, so he sees everything that came before disaster as a bad thing, so from his perspective everything is bad.
So yes Ulysses has very good reason to be pessimistic, but i don't like the fact you cannot argue with him about it, even though Ulysses exists as the direct opposite of the Player, he is literally meant to go against the player.
Lmao sure bud they're gonna have the tunnelers.
Not the first time Bethesda retconned anything. “For our purposes, Fallout 1&2 are canon. Fallout Tactics and Fallout Brotherhood of Steel are not.”
Kells mentions the airship fleet that was destroyed out in the Midwest. Which was part of Fallout tactics. So with that reference, it’s semi-canon. Now with the retcon of Shady sands in the show, Fallout 1&2 have been retconned to a degree.
They should’ve just put the Show in completely another Universe than the Games, Pull whatever you need from what came before but leave the established canon alone.
I’m still hoping that they do this for Season 2.
New Vegas is not retconned. You people are jumping to conclusions.
@@thepeople1448 I do agree that some conclusions are being jumped to however given the weird off dates the movement of Shady Sands Bethesda's gooberness and concerning glimpses it paints not a good picture as to all of the New Vegas lore being maintained
@@wikkano Honestly, I disagree.
I think if anything, this makes the Mr. house ending canon, as Oliver and the NCR vowed to come back and retaliate for losing Hoover Dam. It would make sense that New Vegas took substantial damage in an NCR invasion.
Also, we don’t even really know the date for the bombing, it very well could have happened after New Vegas. The chalkboard made it seem as if the bombing occurred after the fall of shady sands in 2277. I’m sure they’ll clear it up.
@@thepeople1448 Honestly, you're obviously a chill.
the timeline also seems to end with the nuke. which I think would imply the ncr is done and over. otherwise why wouldn't the timeline continue with an arrow pointing to something like "Second capital established at [X city] in the year [XXXX]"
maybe you are right!
I don’t think they are sure there capital was shady sands but house and the people of freeside could have taken them in too
You need to remember that the timeline was written by refugees that relocated to isolated Vault 4 years ago, they probably don't know themselves what happened to the rest of NCR after nuke. From their perspective it was over, but TV series had shown that at least in some way NCR continue to exist (Moldaver's faction fought BoS under NCR banner, Sorrel Booker claims to be president and inforce protection over others in wastelands around LA)
The NCR still exists, the sign called Shady Sands the first capital of the NCR
no it doesnt, it couldnt be more obvious that its about SHADY SANDS GETTING NUKED. and shady sands isnt the only thing in the ncr, dont complain about the lore when you dont even know it
So they made DUST mod canon?
God i fucking hope not. Its bad enough 76 is canon. Rly killing my love for fallout since 76's release.
@@you-5-iver804do not compare DUST to that abomination
Yes
lol 76's lore is deeper than any other bethesda title imo, theres a lot of really neat shit that actually is more fitting to og fallout than the other titles
@@WinterBrew i disagree
That isn't the CEO of Big MT it's Fredrick Sinclair. Unless they've changed that he was (which also doesn't make sense as he's a victim of Big MT using him to conduct experiments on his Casino's guests). It doesn't make a whole lot of sense why he's there.
He was a major investor of Big MT
@@munanchoinc He was a major customer not an investor, he overleveraged himself risking insolvency building the Sierra Madre. There's nothing in the lore suggesting he had equity in Big MT, his story is a tragedy where those around him use him. Dean, Vera and the Big MT scientists.
@@munanchoinceven IF he was a “major investor”…it still doesn’t make sense that he would be the one representing Big MT at a top secret meeting like that. It’s also annoying that he looks completely different from his mosaic in Dead Money.
@@zacharymccants77 Especially as he's not in control of the scientists at Big MT who abuse his trust and run experiments outside of what he paid for.
"I heard one of the execs mention that whether Sinclair knew it or not, the Sierra Madre would be a "test case" for the Auto-Doc and the Innovative Toxins research."
Being from Old World Blues.
fallout fans see retcons for the first time and their minds are blown
People just don't get it. We aren't *wrong* for wanting our time and emotional investment paid off in a satisfying way. Yet we're getting laughed out of the room at every opportunity by people who just want us to sit down and enjoy the pretty lights on the screen. Maybe that's all it is to *normies,* but there's far more to it than that for *us.* We've invested years into all this. And Bethesda has just said to us that it's all been for nothing. Who are they to tell us we're wrong for being mad about that?
Maybe you should find a new religion.
I learned a long time ago that if lore is subjective (its not) then my lore is above everyone elses, star wars ended with the clone wars, fallout ended with new vegas and 3, 4, and 76, arent canon, and warhammer, wooo boy dont get me started on warhammer
@@redactedandredactedaccesor7290 Or maybe people should stop driving us away from the things we like.
@@tonystank3091 His comment is basically how people were talking back when the Schism happened to the Catholic and Orthodox churches lmao "MY LORE IS CANON!" "NO MINE IS"
@@stronensycharte64 It certainly *seems* like a religious percecution, doesn't it?
I just don't like how the NCR gets into a divided state like that. You would think they would use an emergency radio like in the battle of hoover dam and go "Any remaining Government Officials, Workers, Military, or surviving citizens, report immediately to Vault City" as the new Shady Sands.
Bathesda's Hatred of the NCR is Comical
Bethesda hates the original games F1 F2 FNV and their creators they want to erase and destroy because Bethesda’s Fallout have bad writing and even they’re fans can’t even remember any good writing in their games it’s just wow this is very cool and the explanation is either bad or doesn’t make any sense and sometimes Bethesda even retcon their own games. They could have just hired the original creators and they would have made a profit but Todd and Emil’s ego can’t handle that they’re even involved with telling the Directors what to do. 😂😂😂
The hatred of New Vegas is well known.
@@desertranger403todd is involved in this show?
@@hatonhatsoff He is. God help us passionate fans of Fallout.
I'm pretty sure that Bethesda did not write the story of the Fallout TV series. They're consults; I doubt that it would/could be their idea.
"No, we're not retconning it!" They said. As they retconned _the shit_ out of it.
I mean, either they don't know the game well enough to know that they're retconning it, or they're just straight-up lying. It's one or the other.
And what awful retcons it is. Disgusting
I think these stupid duncecap wearers intentionally want the show to be a stupid post apocalyptic stereotypical normie show. They don't want something that actually makes sense. Nope, they want it to be like fallout 4 where a trader who sets up shop in a diner doesn't move the 2 hundred year old corpse off one of the tables
I think it's important to note that Shady Sands began to collapse during 2277 it wasn't nuked by Vault Tec that year. The arrow pointing to the nuke being further long indicates that but the director did an awful job of clearly depicting that. Shady Sands was nuked roughly around 2286-2287 because Max is in his early 20s during the show and he was around 10 when the BoS found him hiding in the fridge
@@JacobLevelXPeople love to be angry, even if the board proves their anger and misconceptions are wrong.
@@JacobLevelX one of this supported by the show. But if it was 77 or 87 doesnt matter. What matters is rhey reset the lore from f1, f2 and NV and replaced it with poo.
My first fallout game was Fallout 4 then i started playing Fallout 1 and New vegas.
The NCR in new vegas (with all it's flaws) inspired me so much that in my next fallout 4 playthrough i actually started rebuilding the commonwealth as the Minutemen and building settlements and outposts all across the commonwealth.
It felt like a punch in the nuts to watch what they did to the NCR for me and it's even worse that we know the original Vault dweller the true hero of the series had a direct role in the formation of the NCR.
if you know the lore from the game its kinda infuriating. The details dont line up at all.
Then we got people like Mrshillplays (Mrmattyplays) defending Bethesda and the TV show for doing retcons. Hell, he literally admit liking Fallout 3 more than New Vegas. People need to expose these gaming TH-camrs for the ass kissers they are.
@@assassinwolf2719 i think todd is just mad obsidian made new vegas instead of him.
I feel that while watching the show, he's an executive producer, any scene where interplay or obsidian lore is brought up it gets retconned in strange ways, like shady sands getting nuked, seems personal. Or no mention of followers or crimson caravan or can graffs or boneyard or atrium or Brahmin barons and so forth - so much Civilization in California by new Vegas timeline, like shady sands I think has 1+ million people or that area yet Todd bumps the number way down and even with the population number he makes there would be plenty survivers, especially outside the shady sands area, there wouldn't just be mere remnants of NCR there would be a huge amount of NCR, it seems personal, retconning fallout 1 with the existence of all the vaults in the show when the master would have taken those vaults out, dead securitrons a destroyed new Vegas strip, and outside of new Vegas no crimson caravan company no gun runners building no camp mcarren, when they show the ncr flag he makes them play fallout 3 main theme, yeah it seems like a personal vendetta for sure, anything not Bethesda related it always retconned in humiliating ways@@CrxzyYT
@@assassinwolf2719shills are commonplace where there are corporations found
Disney did the same to star wars and now there are Canon and Legends timelines
It’s only going to be a matter of time before the Fallout TV show falls like the Witcher show did, and now Starfield is completely falling apart. I only hope I live to see Bethesda go through massive sacking or get bought again by a company that cares. Either way I hope the Elder Scrolls and Fallout end up in the hands of artists and writers not people pretending to be artists and writers.
Finally. Someone talking sense. Honestly, what Bethesda has done is unforgiveable.
what bethesda has done is deliberate. people will say "bro, todd howard is not mad because fnv is the best thing he never made" and it's exactly the opposite. the "this show is canon" was to retcon the only relevant fallout lore and invalidate FNV.
@@ivoivic2448 True and real.
@@ivoivic2448 This sounds insane.
@@Meloncolliepoet This sounds insane.
@@KaylaJones2000 I honestly don't care.
If they make House that he went insane alone in his tower and is just cope ruling the dead city we can collectively banish this entire TV show into the non canon shadow realm where Fo: BoS lays.
I hope it's not like that
The problem is fallout 5 will rely on the show being canon
@@axcelblack2808 I am honestly afraid of any new Bethesda game, Elder Scrolls 6 and Fallout 5 could end up like Starfield, cuz I thought Starfield would be an ok game. Apparently I was wrong.
@@randomchannel9359 Stanfield was so horrendously bad. What a waste of time
@@randomchannel9359starfield is the most soulless game. Ever
They can try to explain it all they like - still doesn't make it right.
I still think its a typo. Somebody meant to put the date of 2287 instead of 2277. If that were the case it would have made a lot more sense, otherwise the entire notion that outright excluding the fact the Second Battle of Hoover Dam never occurred is just downright criminal in a way. Bethesda better clear this up soon because a lot of people, including myself, consider New Vegas the superior Fallout game in terms of plot and RPG emphasis. If they suddenly decide to railroad it into the ground like New Vegas never even happened that's going to create a cascade effect that will make Bethesda rue the day they tried to retcon an established game that many think was better than FO3, FO4 and FO76 combined.
Bethesda doesn't care about the OG fallout fans or the NV fans they have their looter shooter enjoyers along with their "TV audience" that they can try and attract in with the new show I wouldn't discount this being a cheeky way of atleast in part retconning parts of New Vegas or smth
Bethesda approved New Vegas, so disowning it is a form of cowardice.
@@wikkano thats not true stop spreading this misinformation
How do all these multi million dollar projects end up making such pointless lore mistakes. It's like they're doing this on purpose. If I was Microsoft I would fire Todd and every single dunce who worked on 4 and 3.
Would have made no more sense. First of all Shady Sands is located east from San Francisco. It isnt in LA like in the show.
2ndly the idea that vault tec launched the nukes because somehow waiting out everyone else would benefit them (lol). And their grand idea for earth is 100 frozen managers in vault 31. So stupid.
What they did was garbage. They took the art from f1, f2 and NV and threw poo on it.
They need to come out and say the show is an alternate timeline. Then they can bathe in manure in their timeline as much as they want.
As a Fallout kid from the 90s, i didn't think there could be a more spiteful FU to the setting than Fo4.
Boy, was I wrong.
And its just gonna get worse too. As long as Bethesda continues down the road it is, their meddling in the setting will just break it more and more and more.
I honestly do think the show runners just didn’t realize how rabid the fan base would be by one timeline and the omission of a year with the Nuke. Max is meant to be early 20s and the nuke fell when he was child. Means at least there was a ten year difference between when Shady Sands got nuked and the start of the show. Plus, I fell like the show is going for the long drawn out “Fall of Rome” like story for the Shady Sands (and probably the NCR) and that 2177 was just the start, and the events of New Vegas happen while Shady Sands is falling
Again, showrunners really had no clue how much this fan base while analyze any and every detail
I want to go to these places in the future games and i dont want a show dedicating whether or not these places exist or not, just they've all the lore that isn't bethesdas crap, cause all the lore they've destroyed so far is original fallout 1, 2 and new vegas lore.
@@Ytomany it happened with World of Warcraft for me, I wanted to play out the story and continue the RTS series after Warcraft 3 TFT, but they went in a totally different and eventually money grabbing direction.
They should’ve just put the Show in completely another Universe than the Games, Pull whatever you need from what came before but leave the established canon alone.
I’m still hoping that they do this for Season 2.
This is the correct way. If they didnt want that they should have set it on the east coast or midwest. Dont touch the amazing writing of f1, f2 and NV.
@@fredrik3880 It’s Canon now, WE decide and point the Way now.
@@therealmr.incredible3179 lol yeah the show will never be canon but an alterante timeline. Poo lore is always poo.
@@fredrik3880 my friend. That's called delusional and gaslighting yourself the things you love become disgusting. This is real life, and you're watching a fictional show with a fictional settings. how it canon or not canon it's entirely up to them.
If the creator themselves said its canon but the fanbase said is not. Then just copium and straight up gaslighting. Grow up.
Tired seeing those fanbois who are crying on over spill milk.
Before you bombarded me with bullshit.
I never said or implied you should eat whatever bullshit they come up with. All I'm saying is accept reality and not gaslighting yourself as "Not canon". That's called not mature, that's escaping the truth.
Thing is they easily could have had the show set in a place that hasn't been covered yet by the games if they didn't want to follow lore
Bethesda just wants to ruin obsidians work with New Vegas.
bethesta should have stayed at the eastcoast
Heres the thing, though: I dont think the NCR as a whole is gone. I think the fall of shady sands is probably linked to the first campaign to take Hoover Dam. Perhaps putting so much rescourses and attention on the Mojave caused infighting and rescource strain. Which could be considered the fall. The nuking came later.
Also, Shady Sands is by no means the entire NCR. They are spread out far. So after losing Shady Sands, they would likely look to establish a new capital elsewhere. They might be stable, just not present in the Shady Sands area where a second apocalypse happened.
That being said, I hope they dont delve any further into the New Vegas area and stick to new regions. The show is already causing shockwaves through continuity.
NCR could totally survive losing shady sands, but in the show they some kind of remnant that has no functioning society. Only way thatd make sense to me is that NCR were curb stomped by an outside force. NCR was established, large and growing. They don't just vanish in 15 years.
It's clear that Maximus will at least try to reanimate the spirit of the NCR, I assume this by the last words of the main antagonist and the reaction of Maximus (he was a former Shady Sands citizen too)
@@RedStar441 I have been thinking that the North could be NCR controlled out of New Reno, so the South is mostly or maybe completely out of NCR control, so it is just the North California Republic,
So the NCR could still exist in a different form, and just the larger NCR has fallen
@@RedStar441or, these remenants are only related to the local destruction and the NCR outside of the Los Angeles area still exists
Bethesda are so clearly jealous of hearing their shit stories being compared to 1, 2 and NV so are now shitting all over any lore established by anyone but them.
Bethesda fans are lapping it up cause their beloved Todd Howard has said its canon. Actually fallout fans (people who like the OG fallout) like myself are pissed off with the huge retcons though.
Yeah mate. It is a travesty.
This is 100% Todd's revenge.
I'll be honest I didn't think they would even mention the previous games. I also believe that hardcore fans would never be happy if it was a TV show or a new game they will always be content with the Og games.
I feel like the NCR would have been defeated eventually and the wasteland would change. It's not gonna be the same as 1, 2 or NV.
If they had said the show is canon but it’s a separate canon from the games then I’d have no probs with the show. The fact they said it’s canon isn’t a huge middle finger to all non Bethesda games
@@gunproofgrandad that would be fine. Alternate timeline is ok.
The fact the show is made for brotherhood of steel fans.
Fallout 4 and 3 fans or Aka Bethesda games
Just like every game Bethesda has directly made in this franchise. BOS fanboys to the end.
I'm a brotherhood of steel fan, Fallout 3 BoS was my favorite, the first faction I joined in F4 was the BoS and I still hate a lot of things from the show while there's some things I like from it.
I'm a huge BOS fan but I gotta agree. In almost every game the BOS a huge super power. The only game that changed this was NV because in that game the BOS was a small, struggling group, but then in the show they somehow bounced back and became a super power again...
Enclave is better always has been tbh
I feel like the Bethesda destroyed the NCR and New Vegas out of spite. The best game in their franchise wasn't made by them so they're making the game irrelevant to the lore. This is just Bethesda taking revenge.
NCR is not destroyed dude
@@mbbb169 they are pulling away from their decision. They totally meant for it to be but once they saw it made people upset they cooked up a bs excuse.
@@chaz_eptv1430 Oh? You have proof of this or just a feeling you have...
@@mbbb169 my proof is in the pudding. Why the hell would a small rag tag group of raiders be sporting the NCR flag if the NCR wasn’t gone. If it’s still around, where is it?
@@chaz_eptv1430 That’s like checking one room in a hotel, seeing it’s empty and assuming that the rest of the hotel is vacant.
NCR territory is massive. You’re talking about a small percentage of that territory.
Yeah it's so over, the show was good but entirely retconning the best installation in the series?💀
Bethesda having the gall to canonize this show clearly shows they are actively distancing themselves from earlier games.
lol nothing was retconned fanboy, take your rose tinted glasses off for a second and watch the show again. If it’s too difficult go read what Todd Howard and the original creators of fallout games said about the show.
@@SeengignPaipes I can't wait for the totally not retcon reason why New Vegas looks line donetsk
@The__Furry_One I wouldn't dictate if a show is good or not based on mainstream appeal when some of the most popular media for example Marvel is utter dogshit slop, however as I said I liked the show for the most part.
Now tell me how reducing New Vegas into a destroyed battleground (see the backdrop for the credits) and deleting the NCR from existense in 15 years of time in canon won't make the entite plot and endings of Fallout New Vegas completely meaningless?
The writers won't even have to play the game to write the plot for season 2 because they have been given such a clean slate to work on, awfully convenient Isn't it?
@@Silas_Ames I think you have already received a good enough explanation by the user the furry one. Nothing is retconned, nuke happened after the game, ncr got nuked but the faction is more than just shady sands, and new Vegas being a warzone will be explained next season. No game location stays pristine for long in a word were giant lizards roam around and people kill each other for sport.
@The__Furry_One I mean at least to me the show is very well constructed as it's own thing. It's just as an addition to the rest of Fallout its not working and the writers clearly on did some cursory research for some things. Shady Sands should be several days travel inland, not next to the Boneyard (which is never what they call LA).
The Nuking of Shady Sands is literally just dumb. The Villains motivations make no sense. How the frick did he get a warhead of that size INTO THE MIDDLE OF A CITY WITHOUT ANYONE NOTICING. Basically the whole population of the Fallout world would try to have Geiger counters on them at all times.
TL;DR They Nuke Shady Sands so they can go "aaaa, NCR is Kill, Brotherhood stronk".
There was already an NCR and Brotherhood war, and the Brotherhood lost. The reason Shady Sands has to get nuked is so the Power Armor wearing nerds can be the poster boys again. Not for any actual narrative reason. Not for "themes" it was solely done because Power Armor cool. Also Shady Sands had like 20k people? The NCR governed over 700k people. By the very nature of resource scarcity in the Post-Apocalypse the NCR is very spread out. It's clear the showrunners don't give two shits about the NCR because the NCR don't even dress like the NCR, they look like generic raiders for petes sake.
But the sign said that Shaddy Sands was the "first capitol" so we could asume that they moved the capitol into a different region inside the NCR and the southern California region of the NCR is the only region in ruin while the rest are still intact.
This reveals the DLCs that they try to help Vegas.
But the minutemen wants Vegas become a new base and military tactics for settlements.
They should’ve just put the Show in completely another Universe than the Games, Pull whatever you need from what came before but leave the established canon alone.
I’m still hoping that they do this for Season 2.
that would make no sense, you realize how far Massachusets is from Arizona? why go so far down East when you can easily move a few miles away to make a change
@@therealmr.incredible3179 It possible the secrets.
@@badfoody True, but not argument.
@@badfoody Through Legion territory, if they still exist as well.
I feel like this whole show was made to basically try and erase the old canon from the public zeitgeist, ala star wars legends
This is almost as petty as the creators Invincible saying that Mark can defeat Superman and what’s worse is that there’s a uncomfortable number of people who agree with them
Emperor Mark could beat the First Superman pretty easily, So It’s technically correct.
Emperor Mark could also beat DCEU Superman pretty easily, So it’s technically correct.
Emperor Mark could beat Flashpoint Superman pretty easily, So it’s technically correct.
There you go, 3 Supermen that would be defeated by Mark.
They should’ve just put the Show in completely another Universe than the Games, Pull whatever you need from what came before but leave the established canon alone.
I’m still hoping that they do this for Season 2.
@@therealmr.incredible3179 this would leave us with what I like to call a "Disney Effect" but on a smaller scale obviously basically Disney takes certain fairytales often cutting out darker elements or parts that they don't like now all too them freedom of expression and all however the issue is that these Fairytales that Disney does somewhat become de facto within the public folk's concesnous and override the origional darker versions that's what might happen here since many would see the Fallout TV show as cannon and this would cause arguments
There’s people that believe Goku could beat Superman. So it’s not out of the ordinary to have people with terrible opinions.
@@prometheus6413 Yeah, you're just making ignorant conjectures lmao. Superman got powercrept.
Im tired of these lore inconsistencies
They should’ve just put the Show in completely another Universe than the Games, Pull whatever you need from what came before but leave the established canon alone.
I’m still hoping that they do this for Season 2.
It's not just inconsistencies, it's oversights up the wazoo. This is fallout in name only.
What’s even worse is the fact that so many of the fans are defending the lore inconsistencies. Nobody cares about continuity anymore, and it’s freaking annoying.
@zacharymccants7922 the show is not supposed to follow the lore entirely its just happens to be in the fallout universe
@@darkmooned4373they have flat out said that it’s canon. See…that’s part of the problem. Every single fandom has too many people that just want to “consume product” and get a cheap dopamine hit instead of demanding continuity consistency and lore accuracy. Then they villainize the fans that actually love that IP and want it to be accurate.
They've confirmed New Vegas is still canon.
They are wrong. Or lying. I don't know which is worse.
Ah yes, Todd howard famously said soo many things that consider to be true
even if the games were canon this move still erases everything those games built so its still fucks fans of the game and the overall lore of NV. Thanks Todd.
@@EdgeO419 yes undoing the progress of Interesting conflict instead of Organically Evolving it.
I bet bethesda would ignore a lot of character and faction that play important roles in FNV or worse.
Misrepresent its character to be a puddle deep carboard cutout for Memberberries
@@EdgeO419No it doesn't.
By having the NCR civ destroyed they pretty much drew all over the Fallout 1/2 teams Mona Lisa. With crayons, like madmen.
Junktown, The Hub, New Reno, Shady Sands etc. All gone as the BOS black dude says (didnt work out, cant even remember his name such bland writing). And replaced with vault 4 and the cyclops and ofc the frozen managers of vault tec in 31. Lol what they did to the lore.
They could have placed it in the midwest etc if they didnt want to respect what came before. Instead they threw manure all over art.
It will never be my Fallout that is for sure. But as disrespectful fan fiction? Sure it was worth a watch.
To be honest I can see the NCR being taken down. When I played New Vegas I saw them as going downhill and losing power all their wealth being drained and falling apart. The show is many years after New Vegas and so the NCR just dying out to me is not a wild choice. It's also a choice in the game, hell most playthroughs I did I went against the NCR
@@Amanitalandjust because the USA left Afghanistan doesnt mean the USA doesnt exist anymore. The NCR is in California. Yes it also has troops in New Vegas but that isnt the NCRs home citites and armies.
@@Amanitaland Vegas was on the fringes dude, this is like saying the U.S.' military in Japan being small suggests they are weak
There's only one viable answer: the courier took over, without upgrading or activating the securitron army, killed the sub factions, and destroyed the dam. Turns out you can't take two bullets in the head without suffering some heavy sort of brain damage
I feel like this is also the only viable answer. I still hate it though, I don't want that to be the canon ending.
@pancakes8670 agreed, even a legion ending would be better lol
They literally said it's not meant for the fans. Like wtf?
They way people look down on anyone who actually has a hint of memory of Fallouts events is driving a huge divide through the community. There really are two different Fallouts.
Bruh did you even read the full quote
Nolan said he wasn't gonna please all the fans so he wasn't gonna try to
He's making a show thats good tv first lore second.
People are up in arms over the # on a black board can you imagine if he tried shilling to fans instead of making good tv
The director said that “he had not intention of making something aimed to pleasure the fans… because everybody experience in Fallout is different”
What he was trying to say is that a Good natured player who acts like a saint will have expectations completely different from one who takes the raider path, or that someone who collect every piece of junk he can find won’t be happy if the Main character won’t do so because for her “it’s just useless crap”.
In particular, he was talking about the show having a “scale of grays” overall morality thanks to the two co-protagonists involvement that won’t please neither mrs “goody-two-shoes” nor “deranged psychos who embrace the wasteland vibes”
You have been “title-baited” by gaming journalists who conveniently kept only the first part of his statement in order to gain visibility out of shitstorms and retweet-rants.
@@cowbeanboi412 He's not pleasing any fan, at least the ones that know the lore
@@idc6796 We only ask that he respect the lore
how i feel on the matter is all is lost
I really hate how most people are still trying to say that it wasn't a retcon.
It wasn't though...
@@mbbb169 The NCR beat the Legion on that year. There wasn't a "Fall".
Stop thinking that NCR and Shady Sands are synonymous.
Fall of Shady Sands does not need to mean Fall of NCR. You're assuming things.
@@mbbb169 OK. First, what happened to your comment? Second, what happened to my comment? Third, it is the capital of the NCR. Why are the BoS and the Enclave always at full power in the Bethesda titles?
It's a "retcon", it's a reset button...
The easiest thing to do is completely disassociate the Bethesda games from the other games and keep them , in your head, as two separate storylines. Fallout 1,2 and NV as one timeline and fallout 3, 4 and 76 as a different timeline.
Just one question: where is Shady Sands? Fallout 1 & 2 have it hundreds of miles north of the Boneyard (LA). The show seems to show that the Shady Sands that was nuked was in Los Angeles itself or somewhere nearby. Was Shady Sands moved from its original location between Fallout 2 and the show? Or is this a straight retcon?
Why tease Season 2 being set in New Vegas if you're just gonna destroy some of the best opportunities for storytelling, bad enough they did the NCR so dirty, but literally destroying Vegas itself, smh shame
Todd Coward and Emil Dogshit are clown that hate Obsidian for their success with NV. That’s why.
Everyone forgot about the Tunnelers huh?
@@alecazadi-hocking8381They also seem to forget that in the Yes Man ending, Vegas goes into chaos.
@hermos3602 That chaos happens if you don't update the Securitrons with House's upgrades. If you do, it's resolved quickly. Also this ending assumes the Courier is fucking stupid and does NOTHING with the factions at all or any side quests. It's retarded.
As to the Tunnelers, It's never confirmed they kill Vegas just that they are on the way potentially. And it's from a random not a main character.
That STILL wouldn't explain Vegas being in utter ruins. Tunnelers aren't the Legion or NCR.
I really hate that people are defending this change. These "fans" are not true Fallout fans. They are Bethesda shills.
What change?
So Tim Cain, who loves the show, is a Bethesda shill? THE creator of Fallout is not a "true fan"?
@@mbbb169 The nuke, don't suggest that they conveniently left out the date of the nuke in a History class and that it isn't clearly stating that the nuke fell in 2277, especially when lucy stated her mother died in 2277. It was ridiculously obvious that those two were meant to hint at them being tied together. They HAD to come out and Tweet that the nuke actually dropped AFTER New Vegas because they fucked up the lore, they wouldn't have done that if it was intentional/a bait and switch
Ah yes the "Not a real fan" comment. You sound luke a petty manchild. There's no such thing as a "true fan". You're either a fan of something or not. It doesn't matter if you've been with Fallout since the beginning or since Bethesda bought the IP.
I don't know why it's hard for the fanboys to accept that some of the fans are going to like different things.
@@hermos3602 I saw your comment and got the feeling that you would use the manchild insult.
I honestly don't think we're going to see Mr house in Season 2. I think it's going to be alluded to that House is there, and just when it gets to the reveal. Yes man pops up on screen
Thinking the same thing. Yes Man at the end of New Vegas said he’s going to nap for a while, so maybe the current state of Vegas is because of that. Regardless of the Couriers actions, other people of the Mojave exists. We the Courier, can die. The wasteland is a cruel place and only reason why we’re even able to try and get the best ending to begin with is because of safe files lol. Maybe a couple years things might’ve been going okay, but eventually all good things come to an end.
Honestly, that would be a funny twist if they didnt just destroy vegas. Yes Man "taking a nap for a while" doesnt mean vegas should be destroyed. The courier still had power, plus there are securitrons.
1. I wouldn't trust the Credit Animations if i were you. The previous episodes had the Fiddler Radio station be destroyed in credit sequence and the next episode had the radio station being completely fine in Episode 7. Not to mention many of details in Credit Sequence is different from the actual scenes from the show.
2. The Fall of Shady Sands coincides with the decline of political situation of the NCR which is mentioned in New Vegas. Not the bombing itself.
3. The NCR Moved it's capitol to the Hub. The NCR could still be very well alive.
Agreed on the credits, it’s circumstantial as for the remaining points.
What do you think is more likely, that the show creators just didn’t like the look of a nuke drawn on top of that date so they made an arrow OR the “fall of shady sands” represents an interpretive moment of no return where the city fell…NOT referencing the Nuke that is a central plot point to the series!?
The tv show is about how the NCR fell!?! It’s essential to the narrative, this is cope and it’s weird to see
@@VideoGameSophistry Well the show takes place in 2296, Max is in his early 20's, around the same age as Lucy, who by the show is stated to be just turning 21. Lucy would have been born in 2275 and was about 4-6 from the looks of it went to Shady Sands, putting her there about 2279-2281. Also during this time the NCR was getting pretty thin with it's failure and troubles in the Mojave, and was currently under decline because of corruption and overwhelming bureaucracy as mentioned a few times in FNV.
2277 was the the beginning of the fall of Shady Sands and the NCR, and my guess that is why they were desperate for finding a new energy source to control in FNV. Max was about 10 when Shady Sands was nuked, so that would put it between 2281-2286 depending on his lowball age being 20 to highball it to about 24. We know he's young and just becoming a squire, which doesn't usually happen to anyone over their early 20's in canon.
There is also the fact that a Bethesda writer has said that Fallout NV is canon and the timeline hasn't changed.
Now which ending with be Canon in the show's universe is anyone's guess. But I'm going with a variation of The House Always Wins or a twist on the Yes Man ending. With how the NCR is I can't see their ending, and if it were the Legion Ending, I don't see the events of Shady Sands being nuked play out the way they do in the show.
@@ravinous Mark my words, they will likely turn the Courier into a psycho who nuked both the NCR and the Legion.
This bears way too many red flags and Bathesda's hate for the Fallout games that aren't their doing is painfully obvious and widely known.
@@marcussawyer4751 Bethesda and the rest of the Fallout Devs are in good relations. What are you talking about? Josh Sawyer himself even defended the show and the canon. So as Tim Cain; The creator of the game series. Their only complains was the fans sending death threats to former devs. The myth of Bethesda "hating" Obsidian was because of the bonus they supposed to receive if it reaches the highest score. Otherwise, Bethesda had to save Obsidian's ass in the development of FNV because they became to over ambitious with the content and had to delay the game several times because of them.
@@munanchoinc Except Bethesda always shows utter contempt and annoyance at the fans who prefere New Vegas, Fallout 1 and 2, constantly shitting on them and labeling those players as bigots/toxic etc.
Also whenever i see the claim of death threats in these situations it's either a no receipts scenario or actual criticism and animosity blown out of proportions, but i will definitely look into it.
For one, the company that made the Fallout tabletop game had the New Vegas setting basically ready and Bethesda literally forced them to scrap it, and to this day there still is no New Vegas(not that i really care about a game of that type, would be more irked if they released roleplaying system for everything but New Vegas). And don't try the gaslighting and handwaving of "oh but they actually are in good relations", we already know how Bethesda literally refused a New Vegas 2 proposed by Obsidian, and how there's been multiple other tensions and conflicts between both teams.
I hope the second season will not shit on New Vegas and its characters just to elevate the new ones, but the direction it is all heading in, isn't one of the most reassuring. They already show House as in on the nukes, if reluctant, which opens a big plot hole almost as big as Shady Sands being leveled and the NCR completely dissolving(other than Sinclair not being accurate)... originally, House predicted it but didn't know when it would happen and was not able to activate all the defenses; This show has him know it was coming by directly placing him in the damn board meeting, explain to me how could he be surprised and unable to activate all of the defenses of the city, if that's the case.
So the show isn't Canon.
Let's call this series what it is: lazy writing.
Somehow, a 2024 TV show felt less alive than the original 1997 PC game. Bethesda and the showrunners were too lazy to write any actually intelligent narrative incorporating fleshed-out, functional, conflicting societies, so they decided to *literally* NUKE everything and send the Fallout universe back to the beginning to nothing but literal wastelands.
They don't want a complex world - that's too hard. They want a simple one of nothingness going on on a macro-scale.
That’s disappointing because in spite of the inconsistencies between Elder Scrolls games, such as the climate of different provinces within a few years’ time, Morrowind and Oblivion had variety in their respective worlds. Even saying “Oblivion with guns” is misleading since Oblivion has communities as part of a large medieval society, not a wasteland. Actual large medieval cities in it. Or even just small Taverns by the Roadsides.
Well, shit. Given the game timeline and the show timeline, we are clearly dealing with two separate timelines not one.
NB4 Yes Man is the only one left in New Vegas.
Bethesda always envied Obsidian's superiority, there's a reason why they were shoehorned a reduction of the deadlines for NV...
Bunch of crap
It sounds like they want a cannon ending. Maybe the courier chose the NCR, then when they left, the NCR did too, letting it fall to Raiders?
Nah that doesn’t sound realistic
that's almost as stupid as what the writers did in this show, why would the NCR leave when the Courier basically handed all they wanted on a plate? it's like being given a house and the moment the previous owner left, you let a bunch of homeless and drug addicts trash your newly acquired house.
I hope the strip isn't destroyed. I understand Vegas is set in the far enough future that any game ending could be canon. But it's a waste to deny one of the franchise most unique setting.
Of course New Vegas is wrecked in the show because Bethesda execs are petty enough to continue being envious of the fact that Obsidian made a better Fallout game than they did or ever will.
“the Fall of Shady Sands” could simply mean the beginning of its decline.
The timeline shows the “fall” in 2277. But then the nuke goes off at a different time than that, is the idea. For instance, the “fall” appears to have driven many residents of Shady Sands underground into Vault 4, one of the plotlines from later in the series. This also aligns with Maximus’s apparent age both in the show and when the nuke went off in Shady Sands.
The nuke brought people underground - you really think the date would NOT be the NUKE that fell but instead the ambiguous “fall” Jesus Christ
@@VideoGameSophistry Yes. .__.
People would absolutely look at Shady Sands and say, "What happened that caused this?", and then they would point to the FIRST event that transpired in Shady Sands (say the arrival of a specific person, or a notable political event that tipped the scales), and say "This event at this date was what started the Fall of Shady Sands". That is *LITERALLY* what people do in every single other movie or tv show *ever* when they introduce or discuss the fall of anything. It's a well-established rhetoric that all of cinema uses. Not the final event when a nuclear bomb blew the city to smithereens, but the date of when things started, before everything figuratively and literally blew out of proportion.
@@VideoGameSophistry That's literally how timelines work haha
You don't write "event happens w/ date" and then arrow moving to the next event and assume that the next event happened on the same date as the previous one.
Fallout 1 is released 1997 ----------> Fallout 2 is released 1998 -----------> Fallout 3 begins development
Based off of that example, are you telling me that Fallout 3 begins development in 1998
It was left ambiguous on purpose.
@@VideoGameSophistry I think the Timeline is something that is very poorly communicated, they very specifically said Fall, the time coincidence with their entering of the Mojave which the residents of vault 4 looking back probably would consider a fall as it began a war that would take a lot of resources.
The Nuke is listed after the Fall, the timeline is also in a classroom, so for now that means it could just be wrong
Basically they thought it would be a good way to show some lore, but it was poorly communicated and miss read by the community
@@VideoGameSophistryyou need to learn how to read a timeline
Honestly Fallout NV is the only one after the first 2 that matters to me. 3 & 4 i could care less about.
so you could care less? so that means you still somewhat care? nice to know.
Fallout 3 I liked a lot. A lot of people dislike it because it's one of the many games that focuses on the BOS but otherwise it's a nice game. Fallout 4 wasn't perfect but it added a lot of huge and notable features that deserve recognition. We don't talk about the other game though...
I’d argue that the 2277 date is more marking the start of the fall of the NCR mostly bc by time New Vegas is taking place most people know the NCR is rather corrupt and struggles to take action against matters in the Mojave. So I personally believe that the end of New Vegas (the game) is what ended the NCR depending on one of the endings most likely the House or Legion ending.
You make too many assumptions. To me, New Vegas being owned by House is cannon, I mean, " the House always wins " and it's the most logical questline to follow in the game. House was asleep for many many years before revealing himself to the Mojave and incorporating families and such, at most he was awake for a few years so we only got to see some part of his personnality. Who could say what could have happened between 2281 and 2296 ? It's a lot of time.
The NCR being destroyed is also logical. In FNV we learn that they aren't as strong as they used to be and that corruption is rampant. In 2277 Shady Sands started falling into despair until a few years later Hank dropped the bomb on Shady Sands, likely after the NCR defeat in the Mojave. Not at the hands of the Legion, but at the handsof Ulysses and the Courrier who, in my head cannon, dropped the nukes on both the NCR and Caesar's legion.
House is controlling the whole of the Mojave, is in possession of the dam and Nellis AFB.
The fact that they showed House disagreeing in a meeting in the TV show is enough for me to know that we'll see him again. I won't even mind if they make him young so that we can cast away the fact that his cryo tech was shit compared to Vault-Tec
You make too many speculation on your shady sands point, also if house are in on it for the vault tec plan, at least knowing the details.
Why did he missed calculation about the bombs drop and had the platinum chip come too late
@@mangolaplom874 “Too much speculation”?
Bro, there’s literally an arrow that points to the mushroom cloud on that billboard in the classroom scene. That obviously means the bomb happened after 2277. If there was no arrow, I would agree a bit with the idea of retconning but the fact there’s continuity in that written timeline obviously means it happened after 2277 and given how that correlates with official word, it’s not speculation if it’s a fact that is right in front of you.
@@ll3435_ he using headcanon that NCR defeated in mojave by Ulysess.
Even with internal Problem NCR is still powerful faction. Their problem just how theyre spread all over, miscommunication and Hard to allocate their resources to focus on many problem. We never got a clear hint which one that cause the Fall in the capital
@@ll3435_ but for you argument, i'll say. why dont They write the exact date for the bomb ?
Because showing The Fall of Shady sands isnt relevant information isnt ? The shit already happened. Why create confusion
All this just to say that Bethesda hates civilization rebuilding (and also good storytelling)
The show was so bad, they had to destroy New Vegas at the end to ensure people will watch season 2.
Hear me out, and imo it is most likely a retcon but I'll point it out regardless; the Shady Sands we know was originally situated in the far north of LA, near or in Death Valley National Park. In Fallout 1, Shady Sands is portrayed as being in a barren desert, hence all the man made adobe-like structures instead of skyscrapers like we see in the show, which takes place in Los Angelas. Which itself is a retcon, as LA in Fallout is supposed to be the Boneyard, an extremely prominent NCR city.
So either A (and most likely) : The showrunners did in fact retcon the original two fallouts and New Vegas and moved Shady Sands to Los Angelas while simultaneously erasing the Boneyard from lore and nuked it, effectively wiping out the NCR entirely from canon.
Or B (The Copium option): Shady Sands that got nuked in LA maybe was the "original" Shady Sands and the "real" one is still in its original location up north and is untouched, meaning the NCR still lives in some capacity.
Oh shit it actually is in LA lmao, the wiki confirms it. Thats so fucking stupid, how did they fuck that up?
@@oldylad idk but it seems like everyone who is a supposed "fan" of Fallout 1 and 2 conveniently forgot that Shady Sands isn't in LA and the Boneyard exists as a completely separate city.
I saw a comment about tunnelers.. that they might be the reason it's destroyed. Makes a lot of sense, because no matter the ending.. they would eventually get there and destroy everything.
My thoughts were this. The 2277 "fall" was a shortage of some kind of resource. That's why 4 years later the Battle of Hoover Dam was so important for the NCR. In the case of New Vegas looking rather run down it could either be reusing assets (something we know US TV shows do frequently) or neither the NCR or House won the Battle of Hoover Dam. This could in theory mean the Yes Man or the Caesar ending is canon. What we're shown doesn't automatically imply that New Vegas (and FO1 and FO2 by extension) aren't canon, just that it not be the ending we thought was canon.
It's all entirely up to speculation until we get Season 2, though. I think they knew this was going to get people talking and devised it to be the way it is on purpose, but I'm just hoping that those of us doubting it retconned New Vegas are right.
U put more effort into this gay Reddit post then the actual writers
Actually, I may have spoke too soon, regarding my earlier comment. And since I can't edit comments on my phone, I'll just make a new one.
I can see a reason for New Vegas being deserted. Tunnelers from the Divide. I hate to say it, but this might be what we're seeing. And it makes sense for them no to be shown in the daylight shot, since they're sensitive to light
Time will tell
I've been saying this. Ulysses seemed to think the Tunnelers were gonna MEGA fuck up the Mojave. Makes sense.
i could definitely see that being the case
Also, the Cloud from the Sierra Madre. Though, we don't see a whole lot of evidence of that yet.
With the deathclaw skull being shown, and it being said that tunnelers could take deathclaws, I think this is pointing in that direction. There were always existential threats to New Vegas, and if the NCR was crippled beforehand and the flow of caps and troops to the Mojave was shut off, then there would be no New Vegas. A little bit of hope is shining through, but it's not much.
I always knew that Bethesda wanted to scratch out the NCR and all of the Obsidian legacy because of “artistic pride”
Let it go todd
I keep seeing defenders of this show who can’t let any criticism take place say that the destruction of Shady Sands doesn’t mean the NCR is gone. In episode 5 when they go to Shady Sands and Lucy finds out about the existence of the NCR, Maximus says it didn’t work out. The context of the conversation clearly indicates he’s talking about the NCR and not just Shady Sands. This show is ok at best even without any lore inconsistencies so I don’t know why people are trying to defend it to the death.
Yup. A complete travesty.
Maximus only experienced the Los Angeles area
The NCR covered 5 states
@@Gambit0590 shady sands isnt even in LA. The show writing doesn’t even grasp the basics
@@fredrik3880LA was also supposed to be part of the NCR, and yet we didn't get any info as to why it's empty. Unless of course they're retconning SS to be located within LA, so my point is moot regardless.
Im hoping Freeside became the main power in New Vegas, while the rest collapsed. Ring-a-ding baby
"Stylized" being the keyword, to me. I'm not too concerned here. Similar for the destruction of Shady Sands- another capital will have been established, routing and hunting down the Legion all the more important to NCR because of what happened (Shady Sands) four years prior.
Only thing I expect we may see is them tip-toeing around anything Obsidian somehow has, legally, with New Vegas that Bethesda does not (doubtful circumstance but I'm no legal expert).
Beth is the publisher and has the rights to it so they’re not really “tiptoeing” around. Also, wouldn’t make sense as Kimball was still running things there since his first election in 2273 and we actually get to see him again in 2281 on Hoover Dam. I just wish we knew precisely what went down in 2277 on Shady Sands and then the arrow pointing at the nuke as some are coping that 2277 wasn’t the nuke.
@@barricadedpurifierthe sign in the show calls Shady Sands the NCR's first capital
@@Gambit0590 all mentions of shady sands in New Vegas speaks as though it wasn’t ever nuked. And also, Tandi’s house is pretty much the NCR equivalent to our White House.
Fallout is a smarter franchise than Star Wars. But we are seeing a repeat of pandering and “fixing” content for the new audience. The show runners chose to do this to tell a BS story. But remember they all answer to the HOUSE papa MICROSOFT so unless Amazon is paying BANK…. I see a new Vegas remaster or 2 being on the table as NEW VEGAS and NCR trended and we’re all the talking points people said and MICROSOFT likes MONEY MONEY. I mean the show is literally made for fallout 4 and 76 fans sooo much that BETHESDA has a FALLOUT 4 next gen update and people are BUYING and STREAMING those GAMES in PARTICULAR.
I’m telling you in the next 10 years at most you will get a new Vegas remaster - remake or a sequel because MICROSOFT needs to save the single player aspect of the franchise asap
Tod said it himself; Shady Sand bombing happened a few years after New Vegas, beside it only season 1 they have plenty of time to answer all those questions... its too early to say they destroy ncr n new vegas...
I think a lot of people are spoiled about getting answers immediately in shows and games and don’t have the media literacy nor patience to wait or look for them
they could've just made a show in a different state and all this BS would've been easily avoided, but no.... Bethesda just had to rewrite the West Coast lore.
The show is like 14 years after New Vegas. And you don't know what alliances they are going to cannon from the game, if we see House in new vegas next season then we will know.
Also with shady sands, no one said that the Nuke at Shady was the end of the NCR. in New Vegas the NCR elections are being held in the Boneyard not Shady. So it does fit in that Shady is no longer the Capital by that point. Just because a few characters offhand mention Shady in Vegas doesn't mean it hadn't been destroyed by that point.
Sounds like cope. The show states the NCR was destroyed and for some reason what’s left of the NCR are now weird cultists
As for Mr House. He says in new Vegas than he predicted the Great War and did everything he could to protect Vegas which the show totally retconed cause now he was privy to vault tech deciding to nuke the earth
They’ll be lazy and make the most uninteresting decisions. NCR rules, Mr. House died and we can’t see his future which is far more interesting and exciting to think about than oh it’s the US corruption again yay…
FALLOUT: DUST the mod for New Vegas everything we see falls right in line to use it's storyline. House is dead as well as the courier and New Vegas is covered in a deadlier toxic cloud that came from the Sierra Madre and the entire region is crawling with Tunnelers from The Divide.
I think people are getting upset over season 2 when it hasn't even come out. Wait patiently and see what happens. If you hate it don't watch it.
You said the same thing for witcher and percy jackson. Didnt turn out so well
Bro I'd doesn't make any sense to have Vegas and Mr. House dead. Lucy's dad would probably would head to Vegas to meet with him.
Everything is perfect until the NCR story. Bethesda is trying to establish their own brand of Fallout.
they already have with Fallout 4.
@@Kreia. cant have complex lore that are too hard to explain correctly. Easier to just wipe the slate clean in west coast.
My theory is that they're going for a "the viewer never played New Vegas" approach - none of the Courier's actions happened. Caesar's Legion succeeds in taking Hoover Dam, but Caesar is killed by the brain tumour and the Legion under Lanius collapses trying to occupy Vegas, which results in the destruction of the city, the death of House, and the NCR withdrawing from the region.
Why does Bethesda have such a hate boner against the NCR? shit pisses me off.
They don't
They don’t. NCR fanboys just love thinking they do
They don't. They have a hate boner against FNV, because they can't do anything as good to save their lives even in 5 years, let alone in 18 months.
If they had some writers from obsidian on their team, they might be able to make an actual decent fallout game with a good story again.
@zincxdroid2005 sheer fact no one talks about outerworlds proves they aren't gods of writing
Perhaps theyre attempting to "revive" new vegas in s2, maybe even frankenstein by combining vault tec & robco
hope the bathesda can drop fallout franchise and give back to obsidian .
Just finished watching last night, and after a very long winded attempt to convince myself and my Fallout loving partner that they haven't retconned the non Bethesda stuff, I've decided that they totally did. And not just that, but they did it maliciously and deliberately. There are just enough easter eggs from the original content to show that they are very much aware of what the fans really want to see, and they're dropping them in to try to gaslight us all into thinking they're respecting the OC. But they are also very specifically leaving out and actively contradicting the earlier lore. There is just too much of both of these things for me to believe that they are doing it accidentally. They're being jealous little babies and trying to retcon the original stuff out of existence because they're sad that we don't like their stuff as much. The irony that they're doing it while telling a story about the shallow evils of capitalism is quite frankly amazing.
There is no progress in Bethesda's world. There is no future. Every year is year zero. Every new game is starting over from nothing, and now the show is that way too. A dead New Vegas is a dead Fallout to me.
After the bad story of F4, the trashfire of 76, and the soulless state of Starfield, I don't have any hope for the future of their franchises.
THIS EXACTLY. I keep seeing people try and rationalize it but why does it always have to be scavengers, shanty towns, and an overpowered brotherhood.
This literally was idea of Chris Avellone, he himself wrote this on Twitter. He doesn't like a Fallout where are Pre-War cities because is not fallout anymore. All of you are traumatized by Todd Coward
@@cristobalsapiain2709 so because he doesn’t like a fallout with pre war cities. Fallout is going to be the same forever, no one is allowed to actually achieve anything? Tribals, raiders, enclave, brotherhood. That’s all fallout is allowed to be forever. That’s totally smart and interesting
@@420_blaise_it6absolutely yes, is the heart of the entire franchise a dead and ugly wasteland, that's one of the reasons why Fallout 76 sucks too. Imagine a game where everything is solved, it becomes The Sims. There's no fallout without death and destruction
@@420_blaise_it6also the end of the franchise will be when humanity recover from the Great War or simply when they end of killing each other until total extinction
one could say that the fall of shady sands 2077 means that the "fall of fallout" starts with fallout 3 which takes place in 2077. It rigged from the start!
I think they're going to destroy most of new vegas and factions.
Unfortunately they mostly destroyed and rewrote all the main factions in order to pave the way for their show..
If they gut the new vegas story, the show will lose a massive audience.
I do actually think its still canon, the nuke was dropped on shady sands in the 80s so it makes sense that its not discussed in New Vegas (So the bomb goes off after the game) - and the nuking of Shady sands may also explain the dereliction of New Vegas at the end of EP 8. The series takes place 16 years after New Vegas, which would fit well with the age of Maximus and the timeline of the bombing of shady sands
Just seems like Todd just mad that he cant make good fallout game and tries to erase all games made by interplay from fallout history