The BEST GameCube Games? Animal Crossing vs Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door - Madness
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 12 พ.ย. 2024
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Welcome to episode 5 of Madness Season 4: Best GameCube Games! We're trying to decide not only what are the best games that released on the Nintendo GameCube, but which is THE best game on the GCN. In this episode it's two powerhouses of Nintendo, Animal Crossing vs Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door, but who will win?
In this season we have one guest:
Spacehamster of PB and Jeff : bit.ly/2ssNHAV
Madness is a discussion/debate show where we decide what we think is best in any given category of video games, movies, food or anything else. We make a tournament style bracket, and the winning subject of each discussion goes onto the next round until we find a winner.
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#PaperMario #AnimalCrossing #GameCube
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This one got spicy.
You were straight savage mate, fuck yeah.
While I dont have a strong opinion either way I see how PBG would think the point of comparing the "best" paper mario game to the "worst" animal crossing game would be moot. Say you take the "best" Bubsy game and put it against the "worst" zelda game. The zelda game would still be better then the bubsy game with means comparing to other games in the franchise would be an odd point to make. That being said, I think the vote was fair even though I love animal crossing and this series just keeps getting better.
I don't think I've ever seen PBG get THIS salty. Hahaha, poor guy.
I'd add another point to Paper Mario. Paper Mario does end, but that only makes it more satisfying than Animal Crossing.
You can also do different runs in Paper Mario, giving it more replayability. You can do a no badge run. You can do a run without increasing health. So on and so forth.
This episode should not have been this much fun to watch lol thanks PBG that was awesome.
It was a suicide mission from the start, peebs.
“[Animal Crossing] It’s a completionist game” *JIRARD DRAGONRIDER KHALIL WOULD LIKE TO KNOW YOUR LOCATION*
Exactly what I thought
Tru tru, I love Jirard, but that man needs to sleep more.
He likely was in the room or in the building
He was probably sleeping and then went like NANI
This entire episode was just Austin vs Shane
Derp Derp Top 10 anime battles
It felt more like Austin yelling at me because I think ttyd is objectively better.
I actually kind of liked that. It is as they have said a subjective show, so it's cool when a game clearly means a lot to someone :)
Rig
Nah. Not just Shane. It was more like Attack on Austin
SPOILERS:
I tried.
I was rooting for you Peebs. Animal Crossing music is good to listen to even when you are not playing the game. Not to mention the countless awesome NES games.
It was kinda you vs everyone but good job for keeping up a good argument
why did you do pocket camp so dirty
You probably should have mentioned the hundreds upon hundreds of different items in the game that is made all the more impressive by the fact that the entire game fits into the GameCube's RAM. All those shirts, guitars, clocks, THE WHEAT PATCH (you know you made a whole room filled with wheat patches at least once, don't you lie to me), all those furniture models and everything. You can start the game, remove the disc, and keep playing without it. Everything works fine.
Also might have been good to bring up that talking to villagers more sort of makes them more comfortable with you, and you get attached to your villagers. There is character development created just by making a friend. Especially with the Able sisters.
I was really hoping for at least one more vote for Animal Crossing, and I really hoped the music could have been explained a bit more, but it is what it is. Have a nice day dude, and random people reading the comments.
Hey man, I've never played an Animal Crossing game and your argument convinced me to give the series a try. That's a bit of a win.
Jared's reactions were by far the best part of this episode honestly.
PraMai Or the Shane Vs. Austin fight.
@@chillplayer1234 when Forest said that Animal Crossing had superior music
When is someone gonna tell Austin that the term is "moot point" not " mute point. "
"It's a moo point. Like, a cow's opinion. It doesn't matter."
@@thesuperthingymabob8209 "Have I been living with Joey too long or did that just make sense?"
That's all I could think about when Austin was talking lol
As soon as I heard that I came down to the comments looking for this comment. Thanks for not disappointing.
Jared has such a smugass face just watching this discussion take place, especially watching Peeb try to find words to make arguments. It's the best
I feel bad for PBG, but it was a losing fight no matter how good his agruement would have been. 1000 Year Door is where the Paper Mario series peaked. Where as Animal Crossing was a humble beginning to a really great series.
Some would disagree. Some people regard the original AC as its series' peak. lol
@@pathogenofdecay Those people must be blind to nostalgia. Technologically speaking, the AC games have only ever gotten better. Also, the Gamecube version had the stupidest method of fossil collecting. Like, you dig up a fossil, mail it to someone, then get it back the next day, to do whatever with, as opposed to the newer games, where you dig up a fossil, get it identified immediately, to do whatever with.
@@kryzethx
Some people like the mundanity, makes it feel more humble, and the music/atmosphere/villagers are the best here imo
PBG could've mentioned how you do set your own goals in Animal Crossing after starting. You get rewarded by playing everyday even for a little bit and getting closer to that goal. It's an afternoon game where you put it in just to wind down before playing other games.
He also could've made the counter argument that Paper Mario suffers from poor pacing and RPG Syndrome (where it gets slower towards the end and the story/game play feels padded out for time.
Not that this would help him win. This was just fighting a battle already lost.
its like arguing the solo experience of playing an mmorpg versus actually playing a singleplayer rpg
@Voidaken Yeah, it's like Animal Crossing is the opening act to get you into the mood of playing video games before you move onto the main game you wanna play that day.
Thats also the point jared was trying to make. AC is a game of long term progression, so playing all day can only increase that progression until you've finished all of your "dailies", for lack of a better phrase.
But what I think Austin was struggling to say is that animal crossing supersedes being a game, instead its a virtual life. I understand Austin's point of being a lonely kid, I've developed emotional attachment to video games growing up, and AC is a perfectly crafted game that fills that psychological need... whereas paper mario is just another variation of the RPG genre...
That being said, i think paper mario was the better game. It's a more direct and unified user experience, unlike animal crossing which can be a hit or a miss based solely on the players willingness to create a virtual lifestyle.
@StarJ Actually, he said New Leaf was better. At one point, he says that the first AC is the second best.
not to mention RPGs have a really hard time keeping a difficulty curve, most RPGs (and let me know if 1000 year door is any different) like making you feel like you're getting more powerful and so endgame is ridiculously easy
14:15 That Harvest Moon burn lost Jared's vote for Animal Crossing.
Pretty sure he was never going to vote for Animal Crossing. TTYD is objectively better and Jared is an RPG guy to begin with.
@@bbreimm Oh your completely right, I just know how much Jared likes the Harvest Moon series as does PBG, but PBG straight up called it a lesser Animal Crossing. And Jared's reaction was just so honest.
TTYD is one of the greatest games of all time. While Animal Crossing is wonderful and charming. Paper mario is amazing. Best game on the gamecube
I've never heard a more true statement at the end
I think the title belongs to Viewtiful Joe
100% agree!
True to the very end. I'd even put TTYD over Resident Evil 4.
Couldn't agree more, I still dream of a Paper Mario that goes back to its roots. Funny dialouge, interesting characters, partners, unique environments and a traditional combat system. Why is it so hard to follow this up and beef it up a bit?
Both games give the feels.
Both games have incredible music.
Both games have a charming art style.
Both games have people still playing them.
Both games have beloved characters.
*THIS IS HARD*
Boy I sure do love Frog #3 With Personality #1 (Cool) Variant #2
Only problem I see is you calling them both games, really. Animal crossing is less game and more experience, considering it has no fail state, no skill checks, and no victory condition
@@BlueDavrial I'm talking about Tom Nook, Resetti, K.K. Slider, Rover, Copper, Kapp'n, Redd, Tortimer, Blathers, Pete, Joan, Gulliver, and the other *_permanent_* characters. Most of the villagers are... eh. But don't pretend everyone in the game is one of those.
It isn't hard.
There are Animal Crossing games that include more content, more items, more tasks, more holidays, more references.
TTYD is the best game in its series, on its console, and potentially in its entire subgenre.
@@I38VWI But you can't consider future games in the series when debating the best GameCube game. Why should TTYD get points just because the series has gotten worse? And why should New Leaf bring down Animal Crossing? This is just about GameCube games.
I mean, TTYD *_is_* the better game, but that argument doesn't make sense.
Jared is so quiet almost the entire video, and his facial expressions are amazing, I love it!
Pubugu made an appearance today
As much as I LOVE Animal Crossing, Paper Mario TTYD has to take it for me. Animal Crossing was a great start to an amazing series, probably my favorite series of all time, but TTYD is arguably my favorite GC game of all time and it’s truly something special.
Animal crossing is way better that Paper Mario TTYD for the simple fact that you could play the greatest hits on the original Nintendo games within the game.
@@DiabloBiscuit Those take forever to get if you play without cheats anyway!
I am surprised Austin didn't bring up the NES games you could play on Animal Crossing.
Probably would have been counter-productive to say one of the highlights of what made this game great was playing games way older than it.
Some Random Dude He did when he talked about his cousins.
There is a chapter in Paper Mario TTYD where a man in a bedsheet and party hat steals your identity via shapeshifting and you have to recover your body and team-mates by figuring out bed-sheet man’s name rumplstiltskin style and fight him on top of a clock tower.
tHaT iS a MoMeNt iN tHe gAmE
Live Champs You lose your name.
yeah that part was amazing, funny how you left out how you still had to run back and forth through the forest at least 4 times even if you already know the name which hurts future and even the current playthrough
Rislear lmao chill out my man
@@livchamps9573 i don't see how you interpreted my comment as me overracting. You literally have to:
-go halfway into the forest to get the key
-head back to get the rolling ability
-go to the creepy steeple to fight doopliss
-go back to get vivian
-forwards again to get the missing letter
-back again to say the name
-finally you go back to the creepy steeple to finish the chapter.
You probably have to go back and forth even more times if its your first time playing and every time you go through that one screen doopliss pops out of the moon to say "wrongamundo" wasting even more time.
Dude, I love TTYD but mentioning the concept of the chapters as if they automatically made the game better just for being there is an incredible disservice to both games.
If this was New Leaf vs Paper Mario TTYD, I would have a hard time deciding. But Jared's point is very true, the original AC didn't have a lot you could do every day past the intro. I would argue that it would definitely provide more than just 10 minutes a day, it would keep me interested for at least an hour each day, but after that hour is up there would actually be nothing to do unless you time travel
I should be happy that Paper Mario TTYD won but the arguments for it are left to be desired.
For one, I wish Shane could of elaborated about the battle system. How does Paper Mario TTYD's battle system set apart than any RPG battle system? He and the others talked how fun it was to have an audience participate and throw stuff at you (whether it's helpful or harmful) but they didn't discuss about the player appealing to the crowd to get SP (Star Points) or the gambling aspect of a battle; A high risk or reward situation that can be a game changer.
They could of also rebuttaled PBG's argument about the game not being replayable. There's the side quests if you avoid it or forget about it that give you rewards, there is the casino which you can play minigames (you need to do certain side quests first in order to unlock them tho), and there is the infamous Hundred Pit Trial which is an endurance test that challenge your abilities, and getting missable collectables (Although this last point is a waste of time because the game doesn't reward you if you collect every badge in the game, complete every tattle log or complete recipes).
Highlighting certain parts of the game does NOT explain why it makes a game good. Okay, I know Shane is passionate about the game (it's very clear by the way he talks about it) but he needs to explain why Paper Mario TTYD is beloved by so many people (myself included) and a good GameCube game.
Same goes for Animal Crossing. I understand PBG points but he needs to explain himself more (if they let him of course lmao).
I just wished they didn't compare Animal Crossing on the GameCube to it's predecessors. Of course the game isn't as good as the others, but it's still a good GameCube game. It's impressive how much you can do in Animal Crossing (especially when a holiday rolls around/events).
This matchup did make me anxious ahaha! Both games really mean a lot to me 💜
Paper Mario TTYD is a game with cool moments. Animal Crossing is a game made up of moments. There are very few "hype as ****" moments, because it isn't a game that builds hype. It never was designed to. It's a game for people exploring and doing things. It's a game for hunting down that last fossil. It's a game for trying to catch that rare fish or bug. It's a game built around the small things in the game. Animal Crossing is a game that paces itself very slowly, because it is a chill game.
It's impossible to say Paper Mario has better side quests. Animal Crossing is built of side quests. In the same way, Paper Mario has a better main story, but Animal Crossing isn't a game that has a main story. Paper Mario limits you in that there is a finite story. Paper Mario limits you in that there isn't much reason to retread old ground other than the occasional and unusual paper mechanic you didn't have before. Animal Crossing limits you in unique activities per day. You can only find so many fossils, the shop's stock once per day, and the events of someone showing up happens once per day.
Paper Mario does the same thing, but in a different way. You can do side quests, retread ground, or progress the story, and that's your limit. Animal Crossing, however, also always gives you access to be creative. You can customize your house in a completely different way. You can redistribute and fully design your town (except other villager's houses and shops) to suit your aesthetic or financial goals of the game.
Paper Mario TTYD is an amazing game. Animal Crossing is an amazing of a game as you make it. I'm not sure if that makes Animal Crossing a better game than Paper Mario for everyone, but it definitely was for me.
"Animal Crossing isn't a game...." I agree with this part of your statement exactly.
If only your argument for "Animal Crossing" were expressed fully in the video. You ended with the one point I would emphasize: "Animal Crossing" will appeal more than "Paper Mario: TTYD" to certain individuals, including many non-gamers, and it definitely gets credit for that. It filled or at least greatly expanded a lacking niche in gaming. "Paper Mario: TTYD" and "Animal Crossing" both provide great gaming experiences, but extremely different experiences. People can enjoy and even love both, but most will prefer one or the other. I personally prefer the experience of "Paper Mario: TTYD." :)
9sharkman Was them
I
Hgffjyjnn
I never cared for the AC games, (ironically I love to play Isabelle in smash and Mario Kart) but I really enjoyed reading about what makes it special for you. You explained it very coherently and succinctly. Thanks for sharing!
Yep. It's a shame they dissed it so much.
The second time PBG says "Mute point" Shane has a look like "I guess that wasn't just a mistake the first time he said it... he actually thinks the saying is 'Mute point'."
In reality, the games are from different genres and offer vastly different experiences that are difficult to directly compare or contest without clear definitions of what makes something better. So, for all the talk and debate, this entire production boils down to a popularity contest with a notably limited demographic of voters and an arbitrary choice of candidates.
Points are made, but the score means nothing.
That said, what happened to PBG is the consequence. He made points, but no one acknowledged them because instead of arguing in the objective, the argument is subjective, he got put on the defensive with an unpopular opinion, got flustered, and we got to watch Jared's thin patience for fools manifest as he endured the situation while Peebs got increasingly put off. Proud of Shane for handling things as well as he did, could have gone worse otherwise. Feel bad for Peebs.
Also, for the GameCube era? As an RPG PMtTYD is fun, but I think there are better ones. However, as a casual simulation game Animal Crossing was a unique and enjoyable experience that arguably bettered players by encouraging a degree of mindfulness, community, and routine. Maybe it wasn't as gratifying or exciting as a traditional game, but that wasn't the point. But again, none of this makes one 'better' than the other.
I love how this episode Jared's just kinda laughing in his little corner😂
Really not seeing Jared's point about AC only being fun for the first few hours. I had more enjoyment and fulfillment the longer I played it. At first you have very limited means of accomplishing goals, but the longer you play, the more you acquire. He says it limits you, but there is enough content for you to "binge" on any day, whether you want to play with that content is up to you. I agree with the outcome that TTYD is most definitely the better game, but really disagree with the points made by both sides in this one.
I totally agree with you.
Who doesn’t like being nice to their villagers everyday? It’s an adorable and relaxing game, but I guess if you’re playing the game for the different objectives the game gives you instead of giving yourself objectives based on in-game interactions, you might not like it very much.
Idk, I always find myself manually advancing days because I end up running out of things to do for that day
I think what makes Animal Crossing stand out the most to me as my most special game I've ever played was how for the first time MY ENTIRE FAMILY played it together. I was in grade school and my Mom, Sister, and 2 Cousins all played it. It was an experience we all shared and for the first time would compete over who got GameCube time every day. We would work together and complete objectives in our town like filling the museum or planting new fruit trees. We would hunt for missing pieces of furniture from another players collection and exchange it for bells or items we needed. We would each fill our houses to the brim with fish tanks on the days that Nook was remodeling. We would all mourn the loss of a favorite villager who moved. And lastly, we would fight over who got to listen to K.K. each week. It was the perfect family game and I'll never forget how great it was to experience it together. That is the reason I will always look fondly on it and buy the latest iteration when my daughter is old enough to share that same family gaming experience.
I think they missed the point of subtle gameplay. I can go and play animal crossing and literally just walk around my town, or sit on a bench, or do any other small/simple task and enjoy it so much. Animal crossing is a feeling. Animal crossing is waking up on Saturday morning as a kid to watch cartoons. I'm sure the people who love this game will agree, animal crossing is just pure innocent childlike wonder.
Before anyone attacks me, I'm not saying it's a better game than paper Mario because animal crossing isn't a game to me. It's just an experience.
@ 16:48 Shane became my hero in this episode (and Jared's reaction got me too), but I still love you PBG. Keep up the great work guys.
23:17 I Saw that. Hahaha, ow dear. Did not expect that screen to be hooked up to a desktop/laptop/tablet
I was wondering what that was.
"I picked a thing and talked to someone, thus exhausting all possible actions in this game! So unlimited!" I really don't get it.
Jared is having a goooooood timeeeeee
I personally believe that TTYD is one of the greatest games ever made. It's a blast to play. The battle system is awesome, the characters are awesome, the writing is awesome, the music is awesome, the setpieces are awesome, the aesthetic is awesome, etc. I've also replayed it quite a bit, and it's always just as fun the next time as it was the last. The only game in the bracket that I think could give it some competition is Wind Waker, and I really hope that that's the final matchup, but even then it's barely a contest for me.
Just like everyone said, I do like Animal Crossing. It's a charming, fun game. But I definitely agree with Jared in that it's only fun for small stretches of time. For some people, that's great! When I was a kid, I loved coming back to my town every day to see what changed and what I can do that day. But nowadays that style of game doesn't draw me in much. I bought New Leaf last year and after the initial few hours my motivation to play plummeted.
I feel bad for PBG on this one. I choose Paper mario in this matchup, but animal crossing is definitely something that is fun to play in an entirely different way than a lot of the other games in this bracket. It's laidback, it's relaxing, it's cute, it's exciting in some places, and it goes at its own pace. I feel like it's less that the game "forces" you to play at certain times or for a certain amount of time, and more just lets the events happen or gives you things to do when it wants to. I do wish it had more to do, but for what the game does offer, it's pretty fun to me.
Sorry I didn't root for your game in this one PBG, but I'm definitely with you on the merits of Animal Crossing. It's its own unique flavor of fun.
I'm the same, and I hope in my comment about why I thought Paper Mario should win (before I watched the whole thing), I conveyed that. I like both, but I think Paper Mario is better
I just dont see how Peebs doesn't understand the point that Anima Crossing limits your game time on daily basis. Because it does. The meaningful stuff that you can do each day is limited, all the rest is you just forcing yourself to spend more time in there, but NPCs run out of things to say (at least those that would give you a goal).
There is only so many fruits to collect each day. So many bugs to collect each day, items at shops reset each day. There is simply no content to spend more than an hour a day in this game and even then after like a week of playing the stuff to do is repeating itself over and over.
Sure you can argue it's "never ending content" but I would chose a solid pack of unique and awesome but limited content that paper mario provides over a never ending package of dullness and repeating chores to do...
I agree that TTYD is better, but I wish that when they were talking about Animal Crossing’s repetitive gameplay, someone brought up how much backtracking TTYD has. It hurts the gameplay a bit.
"backtracking" no not really. It's an RPG designed to feel like it has a world that matters. The backtracking, if anything, makes the world feel lived in and important, instead of a setpiece you just ignore after completing it.
I'd say the biggest offender is obviously chapter 7. It's played for laughs to poke fun at the genre, but I think it takes the joke a bit too far. It's everyone's least favorite part of the game, but I don't think it hurts the game enough to make it lose this matchup.
I agree even though I like TTYD. I actually don't mind the backtracking in Chapter 4 or 7 despite those being infamous. My main backtracking problem is Chapter 5 which not a lot of people point out.
However the game is so well put together that it's worth looking past that.
Backtracking hurting the game a little bit versus Animal Crossing being stale within hours is probably not an argument that AC was going to win
I'm not sure when these videos came back, but thank you so much for bringing these back. Time to binge watch PBG ticking off Jared
Poor PBG, but uh yeah PM: Thousand Year Door is so unbelievably great.
There are goals to have such as completing the bug/fish encyclopedias,seeing a statue made for you, achieving the "perfect town" status, maxing out your home size, its a game where you can simply sit down and do as much as you can, scheduling a day to truly get as much as you need done. Its a slow build game where you can step back and see your maxed out house, the full museum, the completed catalog and feel like you accomplished something.
You want to go back for one more day to see it all add up, to see your town build up as well as the relationships with your fellow villagers. There are also various smaller events aside from the holidays, you could turn the system on, expecting a normal day only to realize there's buried treasure hidden somewhere in your town, or you talk to Tortimer and be bestowed with lighthouse duty, or you meet Wisp.
I also feel like the e card functionality was also glossed over, as it was one of the few games that utilized it. The designs for the NPCs were quirky and cute, and created faces that everyone recognizes regardless of whether or not they have played the games.
I feel that it is unfair that a point used against Animal Crossing is that it's not as "good" in comparison to the others, which can also be said for Paper Mario TTYD. Animal Crossing as a franchise is still running, and has been improving bit by bit while still keeping the charm of the original, and still being about a kid who moves in to a new world.
While both games are good I feel like the arguments for Animal Crossing were weak and it deserved more discussion, ah well, hope it does well in the loser's bracket!!
TTYD definitely deserved it, but I think Austin missed the chance to say that AC is a much more accessible game thus making it a game anyone can play/like where as TTYD is an RPG and as proven in previous Madness brackets (FF9vsParapa) that genra is super divisive.
but PM gives more of a childish approach so it's easier in the accesible part (comparing it to FF9)
I was actually playing animal crossing last year when I broke my wrist. My fingers got strong quickly, but my thumb was very stiff and sore because I had a plate and 5 screws put in. It was the perfect game for rehabbing my thumb, you walk around a lot but don't do a lot of sudden movements, and it encourages you to play for small bits a day every day. When I would tell people I was playing animal crossing the way I would describe it is that it's a game that you don't play for a long time, but you play consistently. All that being said, I played well after my hand recovered, caught all the bugs and fish (had to time travel for a couple,) payed off my house, and saved almost 10 million bells before I got bored of turnip trading and pulling weeds. The first game is quite limited, but I got a solid 4 months of enjoyment out of it, which is more than I could say for paper mario... but paper mario is still a better game, and I've never played it lol.
How is this one if the most intense debates?
That wasn't a debate, that was watching a man die for a sim game
This should be easy haha
I think Austin was really rude in this debate. I understand defending Animal Crossing, he obviously really likes it. It's a great game, I've played Animal Crossing since the Game Cube. But when debating and you say shit like "That IS a part in that game." and totally disregard what someone else says, why would you expect anybody to treat what you said any differently? Like he was getting so heated that he had a vain come up in his neck!
And everyone is right, there is only so much you can do in a day, and it can be done within an hour, before you just have fishing left.
Paper Mario TTYD may be just a linear game, but it tells a great story, has amazing writing, the combat is still fun to this day, and has great aesthetic. It's a much better game then Paper Mario for N64.
I don't know, I just wanted to comment about how I thought peebs was rude and ended up writing more.
I spoiled this one by looking at the like/dislike ratio.
This was a great episode haha
Peebs I think the point they’re trying to make is that in an average play session you run out of ways to actually make progress in Animal Crossing after a certain amount of time. You can only dig up so many fossils and catch so many fish before you get to the point where it’s mundane (regardless of how relaxing or chill it may be). The act of making actual progress becomes more and more miniscule with each play session as you accomplish all of your goals. Also something no one said (but Jeff kimd of alluded to) is that Animal Crossing manufactures replayability in a manipulative way. Regardless of whether or not you want to play Animal Crossing every day, you basically HAVE to otherwise your favorite villager may move away or your town gets overrun with weeds. So you get stuck in the awkward limbo of playing to avoid your town going to crap but running out of things to do, but you don’t want to restart because then all of your hard earned progress is gone
The argument about PMTYD being the better one in its franchise and AC not the best kinda hinders the games IMHO. After the Thousand Year Door the Paper Mario Series went downhill whereas Animal Crossing went up.
That doesn’t hinder the game. It shows the excellence of Paper Mario that it’s so great and it couldn’t be topped plus the following games are worse than the original paper Mario too so that doesn’t matter for ttyd and show how good of a game that is because it’s the only game that really is better than the original. Animal crossing was so barebones because it was originally an n64 game so it was on a weaker console and not optimized for the GameCube. But if it’s so easily improved upon by future games that shows how weak the original game is. The argument works much more towards Paper Mario
What?
PM TTYD is the clear winner here. AC is a super fun and charming game, but its out of its league when stacked against PM. Also all of you saying Austin argued great in this debate... no, no he did not.
Someone needs to tell Austin that it's "moot" point, not "mute" point.
That was probably the most madness we've seen in Madness yet!
O U C H I almost dont wanna watch this one
I only got halfway through. Another bad matchup.
I don't like the Animal Crossing formula. I like a game to have diffinitive goals, and that's why I can't play mobile games without getting frustrated that I've put so much work into this one aspect of the game but there are other elements that make the game more balanced that I'm not doing. That feeling of whatever I do is never enough and working to my own satisfaction leave me empty and questioning why I just spent an hour doing what ultimately sums up to nothing.
That's why I like RPGs more, because I can definitively say that I've accomplished something with each time I play and I feel confident in that progress I've made it makes me feel more whole to know that I solved the mystery or saved the town.
So when it comes between a life sim and an rpg, life sims in general won't cut it because I don't feel immersed in the gameplay. I feel like I'm watching someone else's life go by while I'm playing video games vs. saving the world.
My opinion is that the original Animal Crossing would conceptually have done better as a Gameboy Advance game. AC is filled with daily, arbitrary tasks that you can do in 10 minutes or so. I equate it to how with more mobile games, like Pokémon GO, in that some players will literally log on just to get their daily catch bonuses and what not. I think if the original AC was on the Gameboy, it would make doing those daily tasks much more convenient and you would likely still have people playing their original file to this day. I understand that it was probably impossible to cram a game like AC on the Gameboy, but that’s why I think Wild World and New Leaf are the best of the best with life sim games. I think, if done well, AC on the Switch will actually be a contender for best Switch game.
I really love both games and played both a ton when I was a kid. I didn't really care which game won because of this, so this episode was really hilarious.
In the end I think I agree with TTYD winning over AC. Although I would say I am a bigger fan of the AC franchise as a whole (maybe because the newer Paper Mario games suck), and that love began with the GCN game, TTYD just has so much going for it. It has so many charming and memorable moments that make me want to go back and play it all the time. It nails so many things on the head from the humor, interesting and unique locations with fun stories and characters, unique and intuitive combat mechanics, the badge system, art style, clever out-of-battle mechanics that allow you to interact with the world in interesting ways - I could go on, there's just so much about that game that is just spectacular.
I know Austin was thinking that it was kind of pointless to bring up the idea that there are better AC games, but not a better Paper Mario game. I get that it technically shouldn't be considered as the point is not to compare the newer games or franchises as a whole, and at the time of these games' releases, there were no other AC games in existence to compare it to. But I think the point of bringing it up is to show that TTYD is good enough to go up against ACNL, so the fact that GCN AC is not as good as ACNL somewhat means that maybe it's just not as good as TTYD.
Even though I do think TTYD is the right choice, I don't think that the point of "TTYD is a bingeable game While AC is a game that you can only play for a bit each day" is a plus or minus for either game. It totally depends on how you like to play games, or even how you are able to play games. You can play TTYD for 5+ hours a day or however long you want, but you'll be done with it in a few days. In AC you might run out of things to do after an hour or two and have to wait until tomorrow, but you can play this game everyday for a year. This is really just a matter of preference. Or maybe you are a kid and your parents only let you play for a couple hours each day, or you're an adult and only have time to play for an hour each day, so in that case AC might be a perfect fit.
Jared through this whole episode is amazing!
@Chic 'N' Stu Providing background comedy while allowing the two main players in a debate to take center stage is absolutely contributing substance. Stepping in more would have only distracted and taken away from the main debate, so Jared literally was amazing in this episode by doing a fantastic job adding something highly enjoyable without taking the spotlight away from Shane and Austin.
I personally like both games. 100% I honestly thought this specific match up was going to be harder. However at this point in a bracket that is the best game you have a matchup that isn't against 2 games. One is a game and one is an experience. Both do what they need to do exceedingly well for the time they came out.
With that said, Animal Crossing does limit you in what you can do. Once you have finished paying off your house and fully upgraded it the only thing left to do are the dailies, Check the money rock, find your fossils, Donate to the museum, and check the stores. Eventually those things run out. However the only thing that you can do at all times is set a layout of the town with patterns (Which idk if that's only in New Leaf), catch bugs, catch fish and talk to characters who don't have much different dialogue in one day. There are only so many things you can do in one day and you do force yourself to play it longer if you finish everything.
In Paper Mario you can go for however long as you want in one sitting and will continually have something to do. And if you beat it in that one sitting, you are more than welcome to do another playthrough of it or do sidequests you haven't done yet.
The difference between these games are simple. Animal Crossing decides when you're done, ESPECIALLY when you consider the fact that all of the stores close ridiculously early. Paper Mario let's the player decide when they are done with the game even after you have beaten it.
11:25 let Austin play the Christmas event 3 different times on all this animal crossing copies
OH BOY! I sure liked pressing A one hundred times to listen to a plant say "I love you" to someone else and you can't forget that super exciting and amazing part where you searched for a moustached bomb throughout every area of the game, that was sure a highlight. But my absolute favorite part has to be running back and forth looking for the letter "p".
I feel like the argument of “there’s only so much you can do in Animal Crossing” needed to be made better. It’s a video game, there isn’t unlimited things to do. But honestly it seems like, if you can keep playing animal crossing for 10 minutes a day forever, then it beats Paper Mario. Paper Mario is an rpg with a story. The story ends. But to be fair that point was made during the... high energy part of the video so maybe it could have been made better.
Disclaimer: I’ve never played either game or series, I’m not trying to say which should have won.
The problem with the argument that you can play Animal Crossing forever is yeah, you can, but would you really want to? It's not like Minecraft were there is essentially and infinite possibilities of what you can do each time. By a certain point in animal crossing, you will have done everything and there is no incentive to keep going. If your going by that argument, then the quality of a game is judged by it's length and not the quality. Paper Mario is a quality game throughout it's run time while animal crossing is not. There isn't enough content to justify playing endlessly.
@@brianh7302 Oh yeah if it's the only criteria it's not really a good argument at all. Quality over quantity for sure. I was just confused by the point they were trying to make. Specifically Jared around 17:21. It sounds like he's saying, after you've completed your main objective, you can only play for 10 minutes per day. Which if you compare that to Paper Mario, after you beat the story, there's nothing left to do. Games over. So, unless you can complete the main part of Animal Crossing in 10 minutes, the point kind of falls apart.
@@HarryBOBX Ohhh okay, I get what you mean now.
TTYD is one of the most replayable RPGs I can think of, to be honest. Just look at all of the challenges and character builds you can use to go through the game with. There are plenty of post game/collection things that you can do after you beat the story, also.
The point that was made about animals having super basic personalities and not reacting to you being mean is completely true. For New Leaf, but in the original, the characters could be pretty cruel, and not just Resetti. The writing is what makes the original so amazing. Thanks for fighting the good fight PBG. (Paper Mario Thousand Year Door is amazing and so, so much fun though, I honesty don’t know which I’d give my vote to.)
I'm genuinely worried Austins never gonna show up again.
@SUPER RAD In this episode he got flustered and didn't make his points clear enough. I would have shot his opinions down too if I was rooting for paper mario. He was an easy target
@SUPER RAD I disagree, Austin himself was being rude and dismissal. At least Shane brought up good points.
Best episode ever. Seeing Shane get so passionate was just everything. I love him!
I agree with Shane. Paper Mario TTYD has my absolute favorite battle system. I loved the audience, and memorizing the style inputs for all of the moves.
As others've mentioned, Jeff was the MVP here. Whenever Shane brought up a point for Paper Mario, or PBG for Animal Crossing, he would be able to enunciate on them and elaborate in a good fashion - especially like his focus on narrative; as he put it, Paper Mario just has a great, very referential and meta-esque narrative in general, while AC's narrative is especially your interaction with the villagers, all their personalities and getting them to like you (which, I especially find the first game to be satisfying there, since they can be legitimately cruel in the beginning - something the modern AC's lack, which is a shame - they got the Nintendo-kiddo-wipe, if you will). So good on ya Jeff boi.
Where is fire emblem path of radiance
I Like Ike I’d have loved to see it in the bracket but I guess it’s not relevant enough to most Nintendo fans unfortunately
Its an 100$ game thats why
@@dannydeleon5996 good thing I've still got my copy ^-^
Fire what? Idk probably not important enough to be on the bracket
I Like Ike they pick the good games to debate
I truly think this was the best episode of Madness so far. People actually debated a topic they feel strongly about and while it was everyone ganging up on Austin and Animal Crossing, this matchup was doomed from the start. I'm absolutely loving this series and I really like where it's going.
I agree that Paper Mario is the better game. Jared had many good points as to why the amount of time you play Animal Crossing over the course of the game, considering the idea that you basically run out of things to do. I'd rather the linearity of a game like Paper Mario that provides me with good writing, characters, and different set pieces over the constant chores of Animal Crossing. Going back to the first Animal Crossing is so much harder knowing that New Leaf exists now. I love Animal Crossing, but Paper Mario just piques my interests more. Don't hate me guys D:
Paper Mario TTYD won by existing and having moments. It simply won by being Hype as f***.
ANIMAL CROSSING!!
After watching as much as I have, I realize it's two of the best games on the system... Still love crossing me some animals. Wish paper mario stayed as good as it was then...
I love this battle between Shane and PBG, and Jared is just sitting back and enjoying the ride.
The arguments against Animal Crossing were terrible. I agree that Paper Mario TTYD is the better game but Animal Crossing is a unique and valuable experience. I don’t think Animal Crossing got a fair shake in this discussion at all. Kinda disappointed in how they shamed Animal Crossing pretty heavily.
I agree. Austin points were great.
They didn't shame it at all? They pointed out the truth that it runs out of content quick. That's the truth.
Animal crossing is hardly a game. No fail state, no skill checks, no victory conditions. It's a fantastic experience, definitely, I've sunk minimum 3 digits in hours into the original, but that doesn't change my opinion
I agree with you completely
@@thecontroversialgamer7079 it doesn't run out of content quickly
The first 15 minutes I was just waiting for someone to mention music, and I was NOT disappointed with the reaction
Thousand year door should win the whole thing imo
That's fair. I think ttyd, wind waker, and smash melee all have a claim to that title. (i'd also argue that fire emblem path of radiance is up there and should have been on the bracket)
Wind Waker is a much better game.
@@spacelizbian3237 I think Chibi Robo should have been on the bracket
Would have said that if Resident Evil 4 wasn't in the bracket. To be fair I love paper mario, probably one of my most favourite rpgs of all time, but RE4 is easily a console seller, shame is it came to every console because it was so good.
It's either wind waker or thousand year door.
I do appreciate that at the end of these episodes, despite how hard and heated the debate gets, when things calm down they all just say that they like and/or appreciate both games. It makes me happy to hear the positivity that these experiences bring even though the point of the show is to make one game rank above the rest.
The Thousand-Year Door is a story about stories.
Prologue: You become a hero...again
Chapter 1: You become a Knight
Chapter 2: You become a guardian angel
Chapter 3: You become a wrestler
Chapter 4: You become an outcast/nobody (edited)
Chapter 5: You become a sailor/treasure tracker (edited)
Chapter 6: You become a detective
Chapter 7: You become an astronaut
Chapter 8: You become the savior of all people and the world.
Epilogue: (Finish anything you didn’t previously)
Animal Crossing is a simulation about life...
Whole game: You become a villager and do the same stuff over and over again
For Chapter 4, I wouldn't really say ghost hunter. Sure there is a mansion with boos, but the idea of the chapter is more that you get your identity stolen
I'd say more like "You become a nobody" or "You become an outcast"
Chapter 5 had the pirate theme, but Mario never really felt like a pirate himself. Although I don't really know what else to say. I guess he would be a treasure hunter?
@@DaNintendude Perhaps you might say a Treasure Tracker?
Da Nintendude I agree with your interpretation of chapters 4 and 5.
A very relaxed chill game vs near perfect Mario RPG
Paper Mario the Thousand Year Door is probably my favorite game of all time! So happy you did this!
I love the passion that is in this episode. This show is great but it would be amazing if every episode had this true passion. You guys did great and kept your cool while still strongly presenting your case. 10/10 guys!!!
Feel free to give me a reason why I'm wrong right now, but if you have to make the argument that if you won't like it if you're not a certain kind of person, doesn't that knock it down as a game on this bracket? It's one thing to compare it to other games of its type but when you're thinking best overall game you do need to think about how it appeals to all kinds of people. Assuming they start picking up the game and playing it, not just viewing it in a store. Does this make sense?
Tuvya Maeir it’s exactly the reason why I feel most adults and myself never growing up with the game struggle to get into games like Animal Crossing, Minecraft, sim type games, etc with no apparent goal in mind, just to do what you want.
No you’ve got a good point. Animal Crossing is not a game in the same sense as Paper Mario is or any of the other games are. Which is what makes it so unique and good but it really won’t win out against better games most of the time because of that
every game genre has certain types of people who don't like it, though.
@@mind_combatant The difference here is that the argument is saying that if you are a certain kind of person, you will like it. If you are not, you won't. That's more limiting than there being a certain kind of person who does not like it. And it works against the game's favor.
@@tuvyamaeir4684 I get your point, but they are trying to say that Paper Mario has more people that can love the game (not only RPG guys), while Animal Crossing is more for the people that like that wants to chill while playing. So they are adding popularity as a factor to chose the best GAMECUBE game ('cause AC is reaally more popular as a series than PM, the 3ds PM was shiiiit, while New Leaf is great)
For like the first half of the discussion I like to think Jared is just staring at Peebs, thinking to himself, "He's fighting a losing battle..." XD
Man there is a ton of teaming up against PBG in madness. It’s a bit ridiculous how much they do that
Yeah I don't think it's a personal thing against Austin necessarily
He just tends to favor more cult classic type games and everyone else seems to enjoy more mainstream classics. So Austin just tends to be on the losing side more
nak yeah I guess you’re right. Sometimes it just seems like they are trying to make him feel stupid or something. I don’t know, just kinda irks me. It makes me feel bad for Austin.
@@bjornbjornson4 yeah I agree
They all need to kinda relax about this stuff
They teamed up against him because he was shutting down arguments unnecessarily and anything they said against AC went right over his head and he dismissed them. Shane was trying to explain the various hype moments of the game and all Austin said was "yep that exists" when that's all he did for AC. Everyone made arguments and he ignored almost all of them
@@hammerstix5791 eh it goes both ways really. They ignored his arguments as much as he ignored theirs, he was just more vocal about it
Jared just sitting back, smiling and laughing, occasionally looking at Forrest, as they duke it out is probably my favorite part of the vide
14:04 Dude, he got slammed.
Some of those examples they brought up were bad. Those are way different type of simulation games. You play more of a God in the Sims, Stardew and Harvest Moon is a farming simulator, those games were bad to compare to Animal Crossing.
Gabster Hamster Oh, I know, I just meant like their response time.
'M'ake Something Oh yeah lol, it was just one after another. Sort of felt bad for Peebs in this video
Wooooo! TTYD! Shane is my new favorite person.
Can we get Mc jones next season
Lol the amount of patience they have for when pbg starts talking over everyone or interrupts them with "yeah that is a moment", I feel like they didn't get to talk alot about TTYD thanks to that, regardless it still won and am happy to see them discuss it more in the semifinals, its personally one of my all time favorite games and I played it over and over
I bet no one has beaten the pit of 100 trials.
Paper mario, thousand year door is my choice
Now beating it legitimate, or the cheap way, now that's a different story
Skipping floors is cheating, you're literally there for the challenge you baby man! Lol the pit was great, the bottom 20 were sick with the nasty enemy variety.
skipping floors is not the cheap way valanway meant....
the cheap way is to have 5 hp 99bp equip all evasion defense and attack at low health badges
@@eliahlatham Oh, dumping thousands of coins at the pianta gambling halls to have like +40 attack and just erasing everything first round. Yeah, I have a save with that, but my first pass through the game I did the pit with my regular non-twink build
@@Valanway 98 is my highest
Coming back to this series years later is something else.
This episode is a great example of why “the essence of” argument was actually important because it helped them Re-contextualize what they’re actually debating. It’s not about their favorite games, it’s about what they think is the *best game.* For example, I really love DK64, but it in no way is a contender for best game of any category.
holy crap... PBG was really desperate here, it was sad to watch...
@SUPER RAD yeah, they did that, but that was because PBG was not saying anything really, he was just expressing over and over that there was "stuff to do" and that he liked the game... nothing really constructive, nothing about the game mechanics, graphics, art style, controls, etc.
Didn’t expect my most anticipated first round matchup to get this heated...
Wow
Sorry, Animal Crossing, but Paper Mario The Thousand Year Door is better. Animal Crossing is a great game to play casually, but after a while, it just becomes monotonous. Yes, the internal clock was a huge part of the game that made it unique. The experience is unique to every person as the town is random. However, Paper Mario had more character. Lots of the villagers are cut and pasted in terms of personality. Each character in Paper Mario had unique personalities. The partners, the bosses, and the side characters all had personalities. I loved the battle system with the stage and tricks you could pull off. It made fighting fun. The side quests also were a good part of the game. The Pit of 100 trials was essentially the post game which was fairly challenging. I love both games, but I think Paper Mario is the better game.
That's an opinion there, bud. We've all got one, and no one cares about yours.
@@tyler2913 I care about it. It's well structured and has good thoughts. You said FA though.
@@anotherzombi well aren't you special. Judging from your username, you're certainly "special" in one way or another.
Pass the salt Tyler
I love that this one started out super civil and then really quickly turned into a shouting match between Shane and Austin as soon as Forrest brought up music.
I prefer Paper Mario, but Austin argued far better imo and they dismissed various points.
I don't know about that. I'd say that Austin argued more aggressively, which was a double edged sword. While it allowed him to steer the conversation to focus much more on Animal Crossing than it otherwise would have, it also kind of entrenched the positions of everyone else on the panel when he pushed against every point so hard. It also didn't help that Austin fundamentally misunderstood some of the valid criticisms they were levying, especially with the whole "you only have a set amount of things to do in a day" argument seemingly flying over his head.
@@gilolaes4725 Interestingly enough, this is probably better for this series in general, so they can discuss TYD in better detail in the next matchup. At least that's what I think.
Yeah Shane even said TTYD is "objectively" better which is stupid. And jareds points were stupid too. AC never ends but somehow PM is more replayable? Lol what?
I might prefer PM too but they dismissed AC's points while acting like TTYD isn't 80% PM1
@@exiled5160 exactly!
@@exiled5160 While you have a point, a lot of those comments came about because of Austin's...selective hearing when it came to some of the more rational discussion. To throw out the tired cliche, when you go full Trump like Austin did, all of that rational argument gets thrown out the window for hyperbolic comments.
I supported Jared again on this one.
You only beat Animal Crossing by turning it off.
It’s not a game.
Rip pbg
Jared's reaction shots had me rolling this episode. He's so happy watching Austin and Shane duke it out, and I love it.
Madness or no, I think everyone's been to mean to Austin in this episode. How would he even argue with their points when they shut him down?
Also, poor heckin Lee. I feel like he barely got a chance to say anything.
Editing makes people sound harsh.
I really feel like Austin wasn’t given a fair chance on this one
@@kyrahere5561 How is that the case at all? He talked for 3/4's of the video, constantly interrupting everyone else, and being way overly defensive. He didn't even allow anyone to say anything about Paper Mario without interrupting one sentence in with a sarcastic remark. This whole video was PBG talking about Animal Crossing, but his childish attitude made everyone less receptive to what he had to say.
They brought up counter-points to PBG's points. It's an argument about which game is better, and they feel very strongly about their opinions.
Well that's the point of a debate show... You're sorta supposed to make counter-arguments. It seems a lot more one-sided this time because well... it WAS one-sided. PBG was the only one there that was going to vote for Animal Crossing to begin with. It's not the first time this has happened on the show, think of all the times Jirard got shut down during the N64 bracket. It just happens, man.
Okay, in animal crossing, if your play time got shorter and shorter, it would make you not want to even turn on the game anymore. You creat more and more stuff for yourself to do every day that you play. You have to take advantage of everything that the game gives you, which is a ton by the way. First there is obviously the house lone, holidays, doing things for your vilagers, finnishing the museom, (fosals, fish, art, and bugs), the types of bugs and fish change with the time of day and when the seasons change, and then theres the catolog that you want to complete that consists of furnicher cloths, and gyroids. Theres also a bunch of little suprises that happen every day that you could skip if you don't turn on the game to check. animal crossing truely never ends, because believe me everything I just said can take up to like 3 years or more.
My vote goes to Paper Mario.
I'd much rather play a linear game that ends with a bang than an open world game that I stop playing out of boredom
Paper Mario TTYD is my favorite game
I love it so much I play through it at least once every year
There are so many different ways you can build your party for the battles, you can do the OP danger Mario, you can make it all about buffing your partners, the list goes on and on
I feel like standing on Peeb's side and yelling reasons AC is better then Paper Mario.
You'd be hard pressed to find any that weren't mentioned... and there weren't many to begin with.
And you’d run out of things to yell after like five minutes unless you repeated points
Paper Mario TTYD is like a full packet of Starburst
-It's got variety
-is super delicious
-though it will run out at some point
Animal Crossing is like chewing gum
-It's a good flavor you can just keep chewing on
-you can take it out and chew it later where it'll taste interesting again for like a minute
-but it's flavor does go away and is just monotonous after a while