My theory with this is just that she was embarrassed, and didn’t want to admit that she knew this. Same reason with her reaction when Charlie says that angels can be killed. She sort of stutters and her line “I didn’t even know that was possible”, doesn’t really seem believable.
I get wanting to give ppl second chances. But most ppl in hell would be irredeemable. Especially the older ones such as Zestial. If Charlie acting KNEW what she was doing and understood that not everyone can change it would be way better. I also get Heavens hypocrisy because it's real. Kinda. Some religious people as wonderful a d forgiving and some are hypocritical. My nan got kicked out of 2 churches for a divorce, ive always found that extremely unfair. But Viv has to accept that people in Heaven WILL ON SOME LEVEL BE MOSTLY GOOD. I never connected with Charlie but I agree with her character if that makes sense..
Personally I’m sad about how they seemed to have done a complete 180 with Cherri. In the addict music video, she’s shown as a very supportive figure to Angel, sitting with him during breakdowns and overdoses, seeming to want to get him out of his situation as much as he does. But in the shows she’s now this like??? Instigator for some reason??? She peer pressured him to go out when he didn’t want to and that wasn’t the Cherri that we were shown in that mv. Kind of disappoint tbh.
Being a friend who supports your guys hobbies and you as a person and being a instigator and encouraging you to do those hobbies again even if it is peer pressury isn't exactly a 180 though like that doesn't seem to be a contradiction of the Cherri we were shown in the mv.
@@Jdudec367 that’s fair, just the characterization of her not really caring about Angel trying to make a change (whether or not the change is believable to the audience is up for debate but she was told that he was) is sort of… jarring? At least to me.
I can completely get that, but I do feel like they were attempting to go for the common problem with people trying to recover from addiction being that, sometimes, their friends are also addicted. So, unfortunately, your friends may try to get you to relapse by trying to cheer you up with whatever your addiction is because they know it cheers you up and they also want to do it. However, even in that case, I feel like the show didn't portray that well simply because we don't see Cherri that often. We don't get to fully see how addicted she is, or see her hanging out with Angel that often to establish that sort of friendship.
They didn’t need to stretch that plotline out, it was meant to lead into her going to heaven and finding out that the angels don’t know how people get into heaven and charlie finding out Vaggie was an exorcist angel
Next episode, they introduce Emily, an angel committed to spreading joy to Heaven, and she turns against the rules when she just found out about the Extermination.
That’s called being a normal person who communicates with their family. Lucifer wanted literally any reason to get off his ass and spend time with his daughter and literally like anything would have convinced him. You’re so right they should have a frustrating multi episode conflict full of contrivances to keep it going even as it has literally no narrative purpose. I pray you do not write anything because this is an extremely hacky way of having characters come into conflict.
Right? With the exception of Millie, it seems like every single Vivziepop character who has a father that we see in the show has daddy issues of some kind. Blitz has daddy issues. Moxxie has daddy issues. Octavia has daddy issues. Loona has daddy issues. Stolas (kinda) has daddy issues. Charlie has "daddy issues". Everyone's got daddy issues. I get that it's an effective setup for character drama (when it's done well) but it gets redundant when you have so many different characters who all have the same problem.
I hate this thing nowadays were show creators and writers are too scared to slow down because they are afraid of cancellation. Its better to have a well paced and thought out show with maybe some of the cast of characters that potentially could end in a cliff hanger if cancelled than a rushed and messy product that doesnt tell the story well nor make time for certain characters. Charlie feels like a secondary character in her own show.
France and Japan made & make shows that they took time with and they didnt & dont care for cancellation, we Americans need to have that FU mindset when making these type of shows, if not then provide something below that demographic.
As someone who grew up with shows in the 2000s, I will take any number of flaws over an unresolved cliffhanger: Look at teen titans and samurai jack like that’s crazy
@@Alecations well if Viv was a better writer and show runner then maybe that wouldn’t happen if she learned how to utilize just 8 episodes or she probably could have just negotiated getting more. But I’d rather events leading up to a cliffhanger than an underwhelming end and being left disappointed in the show over all.
The whole show feels very rushed. There’s a lot of big dramatic moments, but many of them don’t mean anything because we’ve barley had any time to get to know the characters in them.
The show undermined its own premise literally in the first 3 minutes of episode 1. Why should we expect Charlie’s hotel idea to work if she flat out tells us in the storybook that the exterminations take place not out of overpopulation, but rather to stop an uprising? Season 1 would have focused on the hotel pitch and the Vees, not immediately showing heaven to be antagonistic. That should have been reserved for season 2. Basically the finished product should have switched the premises for season 1 and 2 around.
Apparently they were afraid of the show being cancelled so they crammed in everything. Which is sad since that means that we only get snippets of a plot rather than give it time. The Vees are pretty much irrelevant so why are they so prominent? Vox got absolutely disrespected by Alastor in his own diss track. Velvette is only relevant in revealing the exorcist's head and getting Carmilla to reveal how she killed an angel. While this may look like Velvette is important for causing a domino effect, it actually just made her a plot device since she herself didn't do anything with this information. The only one that seemed important was Valentino, given his connection to Angel Dust, but even he is made into a plot device that served to highlight Charlie's case for Angel Dust, which didn't change anything anyway. Also, it wouldn't make much sense for the Vees to be the next villains given that the heroes had just killed the much more powerful Adam and this time has the support of Lucifer. What can they possibly do? Lucifer and Lilith had split since Charlie was a kid and Charlie has obvious daddy issues (what a surprise), but the latter part gets resolved in the span of one episode where she reconciled with her dad. The angels not knowing what gets a soul into Heaven kinda speaks more about the writers than the angels. How do these celestials who, by Charlie's own words "worshipped good and shielded all from evil", had been expanding the universe and oversaw heaven for millennia, not know how someone makes it to heaven?
I agree with this, though I will say that another way to stop an uprising is to convert "the enemy" to your side, so preventing an uprising being the reason doesn't make Charlie's hotel idea null and void. However the inconsistency in explanation of exterminations within show is annoying
Overpopulation=more people=more power to attack heaven. By redeeming sinners, they wouldn’t become a threat to heaven anymore since they would be a part of heaven, so it therefore can replace the exterminations. The logic still works here, granted the thought process should have been shown more clearly.
Razzle and dazzle (the goat/dragons) were meant as guards for Charlie made with the power of Lucifer. They could have had the power beyond the other sins but are made worthless in a single scene.
Charlie's "daddy issues" are SO shoehorned in it doesn't even make sense. Like her father tries at every point to spare her feelings, offers her anything he can giver her, and keeps in touch with her. Like even if her mom kept them apart it's been 7 years, there isn't a barrier anymore. Just Vivziepop cramming random garbage into the already overloaded cast
I mean charlie is like 200 brodie 193 years of distance is pretty hard to get over and I think that was the point. I know plenty of people who feel a lot of distance from their parents (especially in their early 20s) but that doesn’t mean their parents are really bad or anything just they may have been a little disapproving and failed to reach out to their kid and as jay in modern family so eloquently put it 90% of being a dad is showing up. If u don’t show up there will be distance and even some spite there
He has depression, I believe that is going to hinder a healthy relationship somewhat (and yes I am making an understatement and it is meant to be sarcastic). For a relationship to go awry, the father doesn't have to be a bad guy. I mean they are also people with their own issues. Also, I really don't think Charlie's issues with her father are exaggerated in any way. They are enstranged... imagine you try to re-connect but fail again and again, there is a ton of misunderstanding and you also cannot make up for the time that has been lost. Yes, you can communicate but that does not mean you will click because you are out of touch and it can be very frustrating and awkward because you once were so close. Actually I liked this part because in most shows the enstrangement magically resolves or the father is just a bad guy but rarely such a dynamic
I watched Dumbsville's review, and I think he hit the nail on the head when he said the problem with the show is that it's too ambitious. Like, Hazbin Hotel wants to do all of these things at once, but since it's only 8 episodes, they have to jam pack everything they wanted to do, leading to the show feeling disorienting, and for some ideas to get less focus. I think they should've spent more time this season developing the characters, and then saving some of the more complicated stuff, like the war between heaven and hell, for season 2, once everything is more developed. As is, it's kind of a mess.
I always feel if you know you can't achieve something with the right amount of time and care, just don't. Do something else, smaller but more concrete and meaning. Chris Reeve wanted Superman IV to be this epic story but when the budget was slashed he still went ahead with a half baked gigantic script. Viv is desperate to get an epic story out of this before the plug gets pulled, but long term I'd have been much happier with a cut off but still effective show.
That’s what I was thinking, it’s like the writers had so many ideas they had to cram them in the episode. When there are it goes by so fast and the writers don’t take any time to slowly resolve problems.
I wish Viv would have shopped around for someone else to carry her show so she could tell the story correctly. It's always going to be a huge let down now.
So many people keep defending the pacing because they only have 8 episodes but other people have been able to make fantastic shows with only a few episodes so the excuse doesn’t work
@@zed9256 No shit sherlock it's better then hazbin hotel, oh yeah and people ACTUALLY MADE IT into a show that makes cohesive sense. With some youtube explinations for the visual story telling and deeper meaning. Compared to this....DHMIS is wayyy better.
I do get your point but also I don't think every type story can fit into a short amount of episodes. Good shows that have done well with a short amount of episodes work because they were created or molded to fit that amount of time. Hazbin Hotel's story wasn't.
To be honest, after Helluva Boss’s slow decline, this didn’t surprise me. I think it’s okay to admit that Viv’s strongest talent when it comes to writing is getting people attached to her characters (and that only works sometimes). Also, I don’t believe the show would have been better with more episodes, simply because I think Viv would just use it to incorporate more characters. Helluva boss is in its second season and all this entire show has just been introducing a new OC for the audience to get attached to.
I see you on almost every Hazbin hotel and Helluva boss related video lol, hello! 👋 But yeah I agree, I think Viv is very talented in animation and in drawing (her drawings are what inspired my art style) but yeah writing is really not her strongest ability and I don’t get why some people get so attached to these characters because a lot of them are just poorly written or they’re just “wasted potential”
@@gerbera3696it’s almost like elevator pitches have literally nothing to do with the actual narrative a person wants to tell. If Helluva Boss was just “demon assassin show” it would’ve gotten old after the third episode. “Demon assassins” is the conceit upon which the show is founded, not the story it was trying to tell. “It didn’t stay true to the premise” who cares? Are you an industry plant?
One thing that I’ve noticed a lot of TH-cam commentators fail to mention is the fact that the Hazbin pilot is somehow way more expressive than the actual show. I rewatched the pilot AND the first three episodes back to back with a friend and the difference was night and day! It kinda makes me wonder what could’ve been if Hazbin Hotel stayed a SpindleHorse indie production like it’s sister show Helluva Boss.
The main issues are the budget and outsourcing. Most studios only handle storyboarding in-house and leave it to Korean studios to do the actual animating, and Korean studios will only animate according to the storyboards they've been given. They do not have time to put up with your shit (so if you send bad storyboards, that's what you're getting back) or treat your show with any special care. You would absolutely get better results keeping it in-house, both because the animators are more dedicated to the project they're on and because you can communicate with them directly. I think the Hazbin pilot has a tendency toward being a little slippery, but looking at what they've done in Helluva Boss you can definitely see how gorgeous the work can get. But the problem goes back to budget: the Korean studios are cheap, and if you give them good input you'll get good output (and Hazbin, while not as nice as the Spindlehorse team's output, is still a great looking show). They also provide a pretty quick turnaround for the work they have to do. You keep it in-house and you're paying a lot more for a much slower production, and you really have to weigh whether the difference in quality is worth it. And the fact of the matter is, the general public doesn't really care about animation quality unless it's spectacularly bad. Sadly, the extra investment is pretty much never worthwhile.
This right here. I like the overall show but there were scarce scenes that I felt reminded me of the disturbingly quirky, cathartic energy of the TH-cam pilot. From the moment episode 1 started it felt like a different show. I’m guessing due to staffing changes or just corporate company oversight?
I still think it was a wasted opportunity in the second episode that it was Charlie-and only Charlie-who continued to vouch for Pentious and not Angel Dust. Hear me out. "It Starts With Sorry" starts right after we see Vox chewing out Pentious for getting caught, calling him a failure and even going as far as to tell him to off himself. I was 90% expecting a moment where Angel Dust (who had just outed Pentious as a mole) has a moment (even if it's just a blink-and-you-miss it change of expression) where he's like "Oh shit..." and clearly starts to see a bit of himself in Pentious, and thinks "maybe he and I aren't so different." And so he eventually (maybe a bit begrudgingly) sides with Charlie when she chooses to give him a second chance. I mean, just minutes ago (in the same episode) we had the scene where Angel is listening to his voicemails from Valentino. They were clearly setting up parallels and yet... they didn't do anything with them for some reason?
But isn't Charlie supposed to be the one reaching out and trying to redeem people? Like are you saying that Angel should be the one to come up with the idea of giving him a second chance or?
@@Jdudec367That's not what they're saying, they're saying that Charlie would come up with the idea of giving him a chance and Angel Dust would agree, which was obvious, since they pretty much said exactly that.
@@_ThoughtlessHour_ I mean... ok but I don't get what parallels they were setting up between Angel and Pentious really cuz there really weren't many if any. And yeah Angel realistically would take a while to trust Pentious which is exactly what happened.
One of the things that pisses me off story wise, is that we have no reason to give a shit about the sinners. Like, every sinner we have met is a massive asshole and a criminal. I blame that on Viv's idea of humor, she thinks making sinners constantly make sex jokes and innuendos, as well as constant violemce funny, but that ends up making everyone there the same. Why should we believe any of these people can be redeemed? That they deserve to live? They never show us someone who commited an extremely arbitrary mistake that makes them being sent to hell with actual criminals unfair. Give us characters that arent just shouting swear words and being assholes.
I was gonna bring Mrs. Mayberry up as an example to back up your point about going to Hell over an arbitrary mistake, because she was shown as such a kind and beloved teacher at first, but... nah, she did go to murder her cheating husband and the woman he was cheating with the moment she found out
@reptiliannoizezz.413 and then she offed herself after. Admittedly the woman she went after was also quite horrible as we find out in that episode. The irony was funny. And later we're shown that the two got together but I think that was done as a mini joke about irony or something. But like Mayberry allowed herself to become overcome with rage. She realistically could be redeemed. I do also think sir pentious was redeemable, as he was one of the few in the cast that wasn't an a-hole for the haha funnies. He had a little more depth. I felt more connection with pentious than I did cherri for example.
@Kori888_ccI’ve got an interesting idea for a HH OC who is in hell because they were desperate for money and resorted to a life of crime but wasnt a bad person underneath. Just someone stuck in a bad situation.
Realized characters who are dating that are made by vivzie one character is made for their partner and that’s all their there for, example VaggiexCharlie and MoxiexMillie
The thing that bothers me most is that having such a huge focus on the main characters in the past few years (Pilot, comics, livestreams, etc) made me expect them to get a lot of attention in the show. I was ready for a deep dive into what makes them tick and how they would be able to work together in the hotel. Instead we end up with them forming friendships behind the scenes, solving their personal issues as soon as they appear, and Angel Dust going clean in the blink of an eye, just so we could get to the Heaven fight. I can't stand this kind of storytelling and it just isn't the show I was hoping for all these years.
There's so many things that couldn't been cut out and replaced to do more and better but what we have is the exact same kind of writing with problems and things a waste of time & reason to be there Viv gives in HB. I want her gone, Episode 1-7 of HB with Brandon was amazing and I want her kept out & someone or a group to change things, she's not trusted given full control over the writing part of these shows and wanted her gone for HH because A24 had a problem and she doesn't own this IP anymore but they still kept her.
I‘ve seen a comment somewhere else saying „This show feels like someone‘s excuse to show off their deviant art characters.“ and I think that‘s a perfect encapsulation of one of the show‘s main flaws, which you perfectly examined in this video. As a writer and character designer myself, I deeply empathize with the need to show off all your babies to the world. But the way things appear in this show are extremely reminiscent of every young, amateur writer‘s impulse: Introducing characters solely for the sake of introducing them, because you love them and have a lot of ideas of cool moments for them, but after a while being unable to actually give your character a narrative purpose to exist beyond their cool moments. A very understandable impulse, but definitely something a professional writer should be able to control. I‘m also really glad you pointed out how criminally anticlimactic Charlie‘s role in the show and especially in the final battle was. And how Lucifer‘s presence, while endearing and fun to watch, was ultimately to the detriment of Charlie and the entire show.
Yeah, as another writer, I also though this show seemed to really suffer from not learning the expression 'kill your darlings'. This is even more true of a show with a limited time frame. If a character is not actively and currently contributing to the story or if another character already introduced could fill that role, don't add another character to the cast. I don't care how much you love their design or their deep backstory. You are supposedly trying to make a professional story with a cohesive narrative, not an art book for your OCs.
Of all Season 1's I've seen including Code Lyoko's which was the first show I got into growing up, this Season 1 is at the very bottom, not with likes of Cailuo but it feels close to that with how unappealing & juvenile it is, just with a adult show look & coat of paint on it.
EXACTLY! Plus, after the unnecessary war with heaven and the slaughtering of Adam, the show destroyed its own plot, and made it completely pointless. Why would Charlie and the gang ever want to continue building a hotel to redeem sinners after going to war with heaven, not getting their backing, and killing off the first man (a not so subtle message about taking down the patriarchy). Charlie could not get Heaven's backing in the sixth episode, so why and how could she get it now? She can't. It's impossible now. They are all war criminals and Heaven's greatest enemies now. They deserve nothing but punishment now. Plus, despite her wishes to redeem sinners, she can't do it by default of being the devil's daughter. Redemption only comes from God (who is bizarrely absent from the show altogether). No other way is possible. Makes me feel sorry for her in that way. I'm not kidding when I say that I've read fan fictions that gave better plots and characterizations of this show than the actual show itself. Nothing about this show makes any sense, and the show is completely pointless now. I know that a season 2-4 is in production, but there's no point to it. The season 1 finale played out like a series finale, and now it's a dead show.
17:19 you hit the nail on the head with this one. Vivienne's a great character designer and creator, but she cannot write. She also can't take criticism very well, so I doubt many of the flaws in the writing from the first season will. be solved in the second season, unfortunately.
i disagree about her being a good character designer, all the characters are so overdetailed that they look like a pain to animate, and they all have the same stick body type 90% of the time
i agree with the criticism portion. She takes every account of constructive criticism as a life threatening attack. She can make the characters, but she needs to stop focusing mainly on the writing and pitch ideas. You can't jam-pack every single hot idea you have into 8, 20 minute episodes.
@@sillycritteragreed. While a lot of the characters are iconic and have interesting designs, its just the same more or less. If you name as many characters as you can that are wearing a suit and bow tie, youll end up with most of the main characters on the show. Dont get me wrong, i think suits and bow ties are cool, but at that point theres not much originality if EVERYONE are wearing them. Most of the character designs have the same design tropes. Suits, bow ties, literally stick figure. This is why its important to have unique and appealing character designs. Designs can show off a characters personality. If all the designs have the same tropes, its not going to help show off their personality.
For a female-led show: - Adam's extermination sets up the purpose of the Happy Hotel - Alastor's influence turns it into the famous Hazbin Hotel that officially starts the series off - Angel Dust and Sir Pentious are the hotel's first tenants and their actions are the main criteria of which Charlie can use to judge the success of her plan - Vox brought Sir Pentious to the hotel - Valentino and Angel Dust is an entire different subplot which is used by the end as proof for Charlie to say Angel Dust "sticking it to the man" is why the hotel is working and demons can be redeemed - Alastor provides Charlie with the information on angels' weaknesses which was achieved through the Egg Bois (while Vaggie did send Alastor in the first place, that was only because of Sir Pentious bringing the Bois which only happened cos of Vox sending him there) - Vaggie's name was chosen by Adam, named after his favourite pastime - Velvette was sent to the meaning on Vox's behalf - Lucifer saved Charlie and provided her with the means to talk to heaven - Ep2 was overshadowed by Alastor vs Vox -Ep5 was overshadowed by Alastor vs Lucifer and Mimzy only came cos of her relation to Alastor - Alastor brought Nifty - St Peter introduces viewers to Heaven - Alastor brought Charlie to CannibalTown EDIT: oh and season 2 will focus more on Alastor and his backstory
If you notice many in the HH fandom prefer the male characters over the female characters and I don't blame them, these characters are loved by the public because of the way they were written and that says a lot about how the female characters were written. Why do women fail too much at writing women and making female shows? It's disappointing
Imagine that they tried to use the excuse that the trauma of getting attacked like that by her fellow angels caused Vaggie to block the details of that memory from her mind 💀
Viv’s issue with introducing so many characters is that she writes them in the show with the full weight of their backstories and personalities presented that *she* knows perfectly, but forgets to let the audience in on any of it because these characters have lived in her brain for years. That’s a mistake beginning writers make, not of someone who’s been producing animated stories for as long as she has. Also no, don’t make the argument that “oh it’s ok because Viv explains character lore in her livestreams” I’m sorry I should not have to do homework to be invested in the characters I’m watching, that’s the job of the writers to present it to me in the show, else this all just comes across as a very expensive visual fanfic of her OC’s instead of a coherent narrative to any uninitiated.
You're probably right. I remember her response to criticism that Millie isn't fleshed out enough was "You don't know Millie like I do". Apparently, she didn't consider that if the audience doesn't know the character, that's the fault of the writer.
this is one think many people critizicing her tend to overlook: Hazbin Hotel is such a poorly written cartoon because it's basically showcasing all her 'super awesome ideas, theories and characters' without actually giving us a _coherent story_ , by far the most important part of writing.
She writes characters who are very similar to each other, I have same fault with mine but I'm not a professional writer. For example, Valentino, ma mo and adam are the same. Literally she said Adam should rapresents toxic manhood, well she have already Valentino. How she write Adam could be anybody because she ignored all his background. Adam could be easily an angel name Steve and would change. she just read about lilith "oh lilith left him because he was loser" and ignoring all horrible things she did. She cannot write well subversion, for example subversive Adam, would yes the father of humanity who lost hope for it, so for him project of Charlie is irrealistic(Charlie didn't have prove), don't trust Charlie because he reminds horrible things lilith did. So not super Saint but old tired and full hate man. Like in madoka magica magical girl are child soldiers. Or epic the musical circe who evil sorcess sex drive, now motherly ruthless femme fatale who protect her people. But when she is showed honest intentions she helps.
yeah, and even as an older fan, I agree. I've watched the livestreams, seen Addict, read the 2 prequel comics on Angel and Alastor, read some of Zoophobia, and am aware of the Hazbin characters originally being an arc in Zoophobia. But do not expect most viewers, especially the newer fans coming in after watching the show, to know all of this information from what, years ago, a lot of which isn't even canon in the present day. All the crucial information should primarily be in the show, not in supplementary material. We shouldn't be theorizing about even the most basic holes and flaws in these characters and the plot. no Viv, your audience does not have access to your brain or all your planning and background character info in your sketchbooks.
@@SifyaAdam seems to rep part of the toxicity in Heaven. The bad in the good and the hypocrisy. Val I think is gonna show that not everybody can be redeemed. Mammon is there to be the evil sin since most aren’t as evil. Plus greed is considered the worst sin as it consists of all other sins as well. And how are you gonna assume things abt Lilith when we didn’t see her yet. Maybe Viv is showing one side of the story now but reveals the other with Lilith. But you don’t know. So you can’t js use evidence that has the consistency of wet concrete.
Isn’t it weird how all the female characters/ relationships are one note and boring whilst the male characters/relationships are fleshed out, and interesting….. just saying
I firmly believe that even the most mediocre of media can be saved by a killer soundtrack and can convince everyone it’s far more emotionally articulate than it actually is. That’s literally a major reason Frozen was so successful.
@@theboiclobbopus2342 if you're talking abt atla's movie then tbf that's because the movie had a lot of issues that a soundtrack could not cover esp when compared to the original animated series
This show was for the most part redeemed to the public perception by having an AMAZING soundtrack and cast. I don't hate it by any means but it did it a huuuuge favor. Also my Spotify Wrapped had never looked worse! 😂
The thing is, I get that Vivzie and everyone else involved wanted to include as much as possible in fear of maybe only getting this one season. But.. am I missing something here? She has a whole ass second independent show on youtube in the same universe and a massive and dedicated following. Even if they hadnt gotten more than season 1, it's not like she has no platform she could use to continue putting out the content she didnt get around to include, even if she has to do it in a slightly altered way? Or make another show, webcomic or potcast with the unused characters and stories ect and let people know that these are unused concepts from Hazbin Hotel. People would eat that up for years. Now with the show having aired and having a dedicated fandom for YEARS, fuck, you cant tell me no comic book publisher for example would ever want to work with you for a spin off? Seriously, its not like this show is truly the one and only chance she had to make any of her work known. Am I missing something? If Helluva Boss can be uploaded on god damn TH-cam for free then why is everyone acting like these 8 episodes were all she got? What on earth was she even rushing for?
👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾 Exactly and thing is, her and the team knew they were getting a second season. That's why after season 1 aired and a couple of days later it was announced season 2 was already being in the works. So, that excuse of "well they didn't know" is null and void
Thank you! I’ve been thinking about this for ages especially since YT is more widespread than a paywalled streaming service. HB episodes get millions of views, her merch sells out on the regular, and she’s been in the cultural zeitgeist for years already. Unless there’s some technical industry benefits I’m not understanding from the Prime deal what did it do for her other than give her her (more expensive) dream cast and give her an episode limit she couldn’t work within. And still, the money going into the new VA cast could’ve gone to better animation because “Out for Love” was an awful watch. The characters feel so off model a lot of the time in the show but that was the biggest standouts to me. What could possibly have been worth it? I don’t get it.
YOU KNOW WHAT.....this IS a good point. Like, she still has TH-cam, like just put the missing episodes, filler, or whatever the heck she didn't get to do on TH-cam. I do remember her saying that Hazbin Hotel was the one she WANTED to actually get picked up officially, though.
honestly yeah, i found it quite underwhelming that after 4 years in development hell, the 1st season ends with only 8 episodes that sped by in just a matter of 3 weeks. i thought the show was fine, but by no means was it amazing and i don't really think it lived up to the hype.
Makes sense because those two girls weren't even meant to be a couple in the first place when developing the original pilot. They just come off as sisters or best friends.
Hazbin Hotel imo really didn't need more episodes, what it did need was *filler* episodes, episodes to build on characters and relationships Season 1 went waaaay too fast for the plot, the audience can't get a break while watching it and having filler could've easily broken up the season into easier digestible chunks of the story and character development
The thing is, you never know when (as a show runner) your show’s plug can be pulled, so i understand why they didn’t want “filler” episodes in A season that’s 8 episodes.
@Galacticstarsofthegalaxy Hazbin Hotel is a cesspool of potential that Amazon obviously saw, so I don't know why they'd even consider canceling it this early when they haven't even gotten started.
To be fair Netflix also canceled oddballs another show created by a TH-camr that only ran for two seasons despite it being immensely popular on Netflix
@@LondonS-od6eyThat show was still able to make 20 episodes in total. Netflix probably cancelled it because it wasn't getting as popular as they wanted it to be and there are other projects they can work on that they think could do better, plus, Amazon probably doesn't get as much people coming to them to make a show, so I doubt Amazon has many show and film projects to fund, unlike Netflix which is more popular as a streaming service.
As much as I enjoyed hazbin hotel especially the songs. The show was overall rushed, felt hollow, too many characters, and lots of telling instead of showing. Like I felt nothing for most of characters and their relationships. I swear the guys in the show managed to get more interesting plot points than the girls in general 😭. Lucifer and Charlie relationship, it felt lackluster and of course their family drama ended fast. I definitely disappointed in that.
If making a show could be compared to preparing a dish, for example: Adventure Time = Barbacoa ATLA = Stew Phineas and Ferb = Fruit Salad (Don't look too deep into it, it's just a quick comparison) Then Hazbin Hotel would be nothing more but a pile of sugar. Does it taste sweet? Yeah Does the sugar rush hit instantly? Yes But at the same time, it's lazy. So lazy in fact that it becomes worse once you remember this isn't a web show anymore, but an official streaming show. Therefore, it MUST be judged and criticize like any other professional show
I love this comparison AND this comment. Comparing Hazbin Hotel to nothing more than a pile of sugar and maybe some salt for the salty taste you get in your mouth after watching and acknowledging how much of a rushed shit-pile this show ended up being (On a large STREAMING PLATFORM that requires you to pay for it no less), you end up realizing that it's just not as good as other shows. It's just a webtoon comic made by an edgy 16 year old in the end. It really disappointed me.
ATLA seasons are kinda like this. Book 1 gathers all the ingredients, Book 2 mixes them all together and let's em cook everything it has built too.... And Book 3 seasons off with the final touches and let's us feast on the delicious stew we have been cooking dur8ng the show.
@@RoachesInMyWalls Yeah... Hazbin/Helluva Boss has a lot of unique character designs, but the shows have their big flaws. I think both shows have the most swearing I've ever seen in any kind of media 😂😂... Though it does work in some instances for Charlie... and I loved Lucifer saying you messed with my daughter and now I'm going to fuck you.... Buth Helluva is able to use this better with its comedy and stuff. I really enjoy Helluva Boss more because it's not tied to any big company so it's able to be it's own thing... even if that thing has big writing flaws for some episodes. It at least is able to blend comedy and stuff better. I just hope th8ngs can get better
Can we please talk more about how Viv had Angel Dust (an SA survivor) confront his abuser while also making a joke about Sir Pentious getting gang-graped (remove the g) in the same FIVE MINUTES? And this was after Viv herself spoke over and blew off an SA survivor on Twitter, who didn't like the Poison song and its portrayal, as well as did not like how one of the members who worked on the song being an SA fetishist. I mean, how tone deaf can you get? I also disagree about how she's good at character design. You'd need look no further about how bad Viv is at character designing than Camilla, who many are theorizing to secretly be an angel as well because she looks so similar to Vaggie. I don't disagree with them about how the two look so very similar. The cast also share very similar color palette, which makes them all look the same and blend into the also black and red background. And before anyone goes "But they're in Hell!" black and red are not, and should not, be the only colors in your setting/characters, even if it is in Hell. Gold, grey, violet, deep green, etc. Viv had options. She also could've had characters have a more substantial color variety, while sprinkling in black/red to create that same unity whilst keeping the characters unique. It'd also give characters more symbolic story-telling, certain color choices reflecting their personalities (Charlie having more pink and yellow to represent her bubbly personality, Vaggie with more gold and white to hint at her angel origins, Lucifer with blues and blacks to represent his depressed mental state, etc.). Imagine how cool it would've been if Lucifer and Adam had very similar colors, but inversed to represent their different ideologies despite the fact that they were both created by God?
Ok on the Adam and Lucifer thing I think Adam was such a wasted potential. Imagine the rage boiling under the surface from Lucifer stealing his paradise, both his wives, ruined his childrens (humanity) futures and corrupting them into commiting unspeakable horrors against each other, AND NOW he's being denied his fatherly duty to punish his children for the harm they've brought to their siblings. Adam would have benefited from being more silent and mysterious rather than a douchebag, imagine Adam being one of the final bosses instead of a season one boss.
@@Jane-ow7srAgreed, even if I’m on Lilith’s side ‘cause Adam expected her to submit to him. That could’ve even add to his character, since he believes his authority comes directly from God themselves.
@coolu Because it's straight up uncomfortable to watch, SA is a terrible thing to happen to anyone, but we don't need to see it happen, especially in a fucking song.
Also I never saw the appeal of Emily x Charlie. Ship what you want of course but they almost have the same personality so the chemistry wouldn’t be interesting imo. If you were told me they were long lost sisters I’d believe you
i guess what they meant is the fact Vaggie and Charlie have no chemistry which I agree with. I think they both don't look together ngl. but I think Charlie's too.... kiddish to even be in a relationship and well veggie... I just don't like her at all. she's boring I forgot about her and I thought Vaggie and Charlie were sisters or friends.
I'm almost mad you pitch the idea of Charlie and Alastor together being the ones to fight and defeat Adam at the end because that would've been _so much more interesting._ We have some decent evidence that Charlie has this weird pseudo-trust in Alastor; he's safe enough that he can be around and get things done for them whenever she needs him to be but there's no reason to suspect he actually cares about them, especially if the chips are down. It would then be an interesting surprise when, if Charlie insists on trying to fight Adam herself because of how awful he's been to her specifically the entire season, Alastor then steps up to say that he'll be right beside her for it. There's also reason to at least suspect that his deal is with her mom, and that protecting Charlie and possibly the hotel itself is one of the conditions, so using that moment to communicate even a bit more as to whether that theory is true or not would've also set up some tidbits to lead into the next season. It would've been so fascinating to see the two of them trying to work together under the stress of battle, testing Charlie as to whether or not she can trust Alastor to have her back, and Alastor having to work harder to accomodate fighting with another person and not just think about himself in the moment whether he likes to or not. Lucifer's swooping in to rescue so early in the show definitely nerfs *so much tension* for literally any other encounter that's going to come in any other seasons. Why should we ever fear for the safety of our core cast ever again when we already know the most powerful being in Hell is just one phone call away from saving them from all but literally the most dangerous entities that could exist in this world? Anime pulls this shit all the time and it blows so much wind out of the sails of all the stakes you can have in a story where lives are on the line, and the only way to reign it back in is to start including weird limitations on how much the overpowered person can interfere.
The only reason why charlie has "daddy issues" is because her dad wouldnt call her at all for like 7 years meanwhile she never made any effort to call him either? I'm pretty sure its mentioned she'd only call him sometimes but barely ever.
100% agree on Carmilla being a parasite. She doesn't even look or act that cool or fun like Vivzie's other OCs. Vaggie being the one to kill the angel would probably be the best candidate, and it would add even more tension between her and Charlie. If they're insistient on making Carmilla a major character she should have taken part in the final battle and died, which would make the Vees line about "masterless cattle" make sense if an overlord was killed.
I disagree I thought she was plenty cool. I don't think she needed to die, though I understand the impetus in the argument that "Carmilla was a parasite," in that she was a further example of the show introducing a high cast of characters and not doing much to flesh them out.
Imagine if Vaggie hid that the angels could die by angelic weapons deliberately because she's a complex character that still feels connection to her ingrained Heaven beliefs AND even doesn't necessarily want to kill her own kind that she trained and celebrated new years with for centuries and she actually had a motivation that put her in conflict with her own love interest in an interesting way while simultaneously fixing the problem that no sinner ever tried to kill angels because it requires some harder to achieve secret that only Vaggie knew being a 1 in a million fallen exorcist, seeing how that clearly rarely happens... Thus, making Lute semi-responsible for the failure of the exorcist/death of adam for recklessly casting out a fellow exorcist for jealousy based reasons, a karma-like outcome that inevitably came to punish her when Vaggie chooses to show Hell how to kill angels, while also showing the nuance that not all exorcists are evil ( through Vaggie's general attachment to the other exorcists that aren't Lute ) and its tragic that anyone is killing anyone, highlighting Charlie's desire for a pacifist solution through her love interest's unique perspective that she can offer her as a nuanced supporting character. If only they thought of anything that deeply lmao
@@abc.6223But then Viv couldn't add her 5,000th "sad boi" OC that has daddy issues. Okay maybe that's more Helluva Boss, but still, she refuses to develop her existing female characters and instead wants to show off her new shiny ocs.
@@haveagoodday7021 Tbf it's ironic when you guys complain under a thread about Carmilla a female character she actually developed and got depth and now you people act like her exisiting and being given a large role is a issue lmao when she is actually a complex character.
Another point I don’t understand is why in the original pilot Charlie says near the end of the episode when she’s on the phone with her mom “I’m starting to think dad was right about me” like I didn’t really think he was gonna be as loving and supportive of her as he turned out to be. So, if their issues were resolved in one episode….Why would she even want the hotel anymore? Lmao
I'm an idiot but I like to write so this is how I would've done it. Lucifer would've been an ass. Simple. He cares about Charlie, that's his daughter and his heir (but it's more like Stolas and Octavia, precautionary.) But hes gotten so bitter and twisted because he got kicked out of heaven, sent to the pit of darkness he felt guilty fpr his wife left him, took his daughter and he's been alone for so long. I would've lengthened it out. I would've made it so he has some reflection, like memories of him Lilith and Charlie (maybe a littl4 music box type thing) and tried to make people sympathise with his character and flesh him out. He's the devil, he's the most hated being, I would've made all the sinners hate him for the purgatory he sent them to. And that would eat at someone. Basically, I'd have scrapped what Viv made and just.. tried to work with the time I had.
@@KrookedKlown-kl5tkHonestly, they could have kept his personality and made him basically an accidental asshole. They hinted at it when Lucifer and Charlie were on the balcony. Him trying so hard to protect her, and him just being so awkward from being alone for so long, could cause conflict because he says stuff and does stuff he shouldn't in an earnest attempt to help, but also keep her safe. THAT would have been interesting.
I just wanted to say them killing Adam goes against everything this show stood for. Forgiveness. Charlie is willing to forgive everyone but Adam. That’s because everything IS black and white, the protagonist are always forgiven and antagonist are never forgiven
I know right. It's weird no one has any idea what gets someone into heaven. The circles of hell are named after the 7 deadly sins, so you'd think angels would just assume you get in heaven if you don't sin too much. Hence why Hell residents are called Sinners. 🤨🤔
@@gerbera3696 The small detail I mentioned that everyone talks to each other because hierarchy doesn’t matter and if they don’t like Adam then why don’t they just cast Him out of Heaven and this is the same heaven support Science .?
@@gerbera3696 u dont need to know why they were in hell or what they did in hell, just that they arae changing and being better, thats like the whole point of this show
@@gerbera3696 i guess, but i think them not saying what was done was on purpose a lot of stuff was confirmed by vivzie but that stuff is prob out of date. I genuinly think they want the message to be don’t matter ur past u can change in the future and thats why they didnt show the past sins
Charlie forgets that hell is meant for the irredeemable. Had this taken place in purgatory, it would've made more sense, as purgatory is meant for the redeemable.
That or pure evil is in a ring lower than them. One of my headcanon is that only 7 rings of hell are mentioned in the series. In Dante's Inferno there are 9. The sinners in Hazbin Hotel are imprisoned in the ring of pride, the deepest of all. For me, the sinners we see are not irredeemable, because they manage to keep a society afloat. and that the real monsters are in the ring of betrayal. While in Purgatory souls wait to be collected to go to heaven, something that will not happen because the angels chose the path of ignorance.
Viv could've just made Heaven so strict to the point where even the smallest mistakes or grey areas can make you go to Hell, then there would've been ACTUAL innocent souls in Hell, and Charlie ACTUALLY rehabs the sinners like real rehab so it explains what they do off screen.
@@_ThoughtlessHour_ Oh yes, I also feel like if that were true, the innocents that got influenced by the proper sinners would be an argument for Adam to keep em out cuz like "Oh if theyre actually good why are they X and Y" instead of just "Idk the rules HHH"
All the projects feel more like a merchandising advertisement than a show, or a loose template for fans to make up stuff for rather than actual canon content to follow. And, of course, the humor was insufferable.
Bro the fact you simplified the show like that proves you have no point y'all just want something to complain about honestly most of you shouldn't be critics because it sounds like a you problem
@@hoifzf and the fact that you got so pissy out of a simple (and true) critique proves that Viv and her fans can't handle even the mildest bit of criticism because you all think anyone who disagrees with you and doesn't think Vivziepop's works are indie animation's holy grails are haters
@@felixsfreckles6822 so if I call you out I'm being pissy I'm sorry but don't get things confused just because I blatantly disagree with your OPINION which isn't a good one to ME doesn't mean I can't take criticism once again you generalized you should stop doing that it kinda invalidates the take you have I disagree with you end of story
I think if it were me, I would've cut Vox and Velvette out of season 1 and have Valentino be the only vee present with small tease of the other 2 like photos to build them up as future antagonists also cut Mimsy from Dad Beat Dad so it can focus more on Charlie and Lucifer's relationship, have Carmilla,Zestial, and Rosie participate in defending the hotel from the exterminators (especially with Carmilla's actions being the reason why the extermination was changed to 6 months) , and show more prominence to Keekee as she felt like she was just there despite being teased to be the sorta embodiment of the hotel.
The whole point of Mimzy was for Charlie to tell her dad; "This guy supports me, and I barely know him. Why can't you?" And maybe show growth in Alastor? It's subtle, but I think Viv was trying to hint at a change. Which, honestly, could have been done with anyone else in the current cast. Maybe Nifty getting in trouble with sharks with her absentmindedness, or telling them information of a powerful something in the hotel they want to steal and hold for ransom. And Nifty leads them there without thinking. Maybe they convince her they wanna be redeemed and Nifty basically wants to have Charlie and Alastor proud of her so she goes with it. It prompts Alastor to have to defend the hotel, and we still get that scene with Charlie and Lucifer. And Alastor scolding Nifty in a similar way to Mimzy.
i love lucifers character and more than anything is my favorite song in the ost. but charlies "daddy issues" were literally nonexistent. lucifer has his own mental struggles, thats not daddy issues
I heard that Amazon Prime was the main reason for the lack of episodes and fast pacing; they were strict or something I learned that the information I heard was wrong; thank you to the people who informed me
Nah, Viv always struggles with pacing. Just look at Helluva Boss and Zoophobia. She’s great at introductions and conclusions, but everything in between is always an undercooked mess. Her visuals are pretty much the only thing that save her.
there are shows that have less eps then her (over the garden wall) that tell a better and coherent show. Viv is just bad at story telling, she always was. Look at zoophobia and helluva boss she keeps switching between episodic story telling or comedy: She also changed stuff on a whim because she wants so even if it doesn't make much sense, she was always Broadway stars first story last. On top amazon has nothing to do with it, they just have it on their platform, they were still struggling to find a platform to stream it when they finished the season. So yeah for once i say its not amazon doing but entirely hers for blowing the budget
Whenever you mentioned how Lucifer's appearance and power undermines the idea of the hotel and the conflict regarding the exterminations, I couldn't help but think about how Discord was removed from the MLP movie for that same reason
I can't stop laughing like even removing discort. The other princesses were still there. those pleading alicorns who stand still waiting for Tempest to throw the ball to them.
I will never forgive they not remaking the pilot and just starting the story. I talked to people that didn't know the whole youtube pilot story, and Medranno's story. They were confused with the beginning Many liked it. But mostly thought the writing was lacking at best Also also, why every character conflict and development, involves daddy issues? Medranno, cant you make different characters conflict
ALSO ALSO ALSO! Nothing convinces me they didnt know they wouldn't have a second season. That is the worse lie i heard The show came out and they were already recording for season 2. They already had everything written out. The writing team is just incompetent at their job!
I believe that there was intention for Valentino to be the way he is. In the eyes of the viewer, we see that Valentino is this child man-baby who throws fits and can be dangerous. But in Angel Dust's eyes, he is *only* dangerous, he is terrifying and will hurt him more. In Vox's eyes, an equal, Valentino is a bitch-man who can't keep a lid on his anger. As the viewer, we see all of these points of views, but they are not directed correctly, and we, as the viewer, did not know and was not told that the perspective was changing. 3rd person can be difficult, especially in omni, but good Lucifer himself... There are ways to do it; Vivize could not find any of them. Valentino is a scary character. People like him really do exist in this world, but Vivzie did not get that across properly. Such a shame. He really is such a good character too.
Well said, although personally Valentino's comedic moments didn't undermine his character for me, because I could see that Vox can deal with him as a more-or-less equal and his employees can't.
Honestly Valentino is the only character that actually feels dangerous despite him being a minor villain. I have rarely seen a character that evoke such disgust and hatred in a fandom, I think out of all the characters that are abusers in Hazbin Hotel and Helluva Boss he is the one that works the best. The only thing that bother me is what you mentionned, I don't think it undermine his character that much because he still feels like a threat but it can be confusing to the audience about how we are supposed to feel towards him. I hope season two will handle it better
From what I heard, they could have had 8-12, but she blew the budget on voice actors. Also, Catlevania told a great story with 4 episodes in its first season, Infinity Train with 10 episodes but half the runtime. The problem isn't Viv having little control, it's that she had too much control and by her own admission, can't write.
@@RavenStarMediaOmg, I love Castlevania and Inifite Train so much, the storyline of Infinite Train was perfect and I’m still mad to this day it was cancelled 😭
@@RavenStarMediaTo her, she can write and doesn't care, let time get her when her writing is known by much better writers and they decide to look more into her online, you don't want to mess with or upset people who have a bigger reputation, more important circles and more money.
My issue with Carmilla is that her existence is a lie. You mean to tell me that Vaggie had her eye and wings torn out and she still thinks that angels are immortal? I don’t know how the writers made such a glaring oversight. Also, they neutered Charlie’s character. In the pilot, she was this bubbly and optimistic princess that always sees the best in others. In public. In private? She’s insecure and scared that she doesn’t know what she’s doing and that her father will never approve of her. What do we have in the series proper? She’s still naively optimistic with no other side of her character until she learns that Vaggie didn’t let her know she was an exorcist. And that get resolved by the end of the episode. Heck, we don’t see that insecurity over her dad’s approval aside from being annoyed that he forgot about what she was doing. The only other instance is Husk making a “daddy issues” joke. While Lucifer’s character flaws are easily written off as him expressing classic depressive symptoms, Charlie’s personality when interacting with him are completely out of left field. And them immediately mending their relationship is just… Nope. This show was waaay too rushed! They kiiind of hinted that maybe Lilith drove a wedge between the two. But with her being absent for 7 years, there shouldn’t have been that hurdle. Overall, I wish this series was green lit for at least two season from the get go. I can forgive Helluva Boss for needing to cram more into each episode because animation is expensive and that’s a self-funded projected. They don’t have the luxury of a long and drawn out series (especially with months between episode releases). But Hazbin is funded by Amazon. The rushed pacing ruined the show and there was no excuse for it. They should have been given two seasons. Or at least twice as many episodes in one season. They didn’t have the time needed to give this story the depth it deserved.
I agree. Man they really could have had Vaggie conflicted with her mortality and basically try to convince herself that she didn't die, so she can't, but know in the back of her mind. It comes to reality when she faces Camilla. She can, in fact, die, and she was lying to herself.
I don’t hate u for not putting Lucifer in season one in my opinion, I believe Lucifer should’ve been introduced more in season two to season three like previously stated by one of my comments, I don’t know I’m just kind of disappointed with where the show went. Had so much potential you know?
I think Charlie should have kicked Adam's ass in season one and then Arch Angel Michael should have fought Lucifer and then God could have stepped in and been like "okay boys, this is going WAY TOO FAR" or something lol.
where to go with eight episodes 1 introduce hotel maybe like a rewrite of the pilot but more official bc without the context of the pilot ur left confused, (most shows rewrite the piltos for the first episode anyways) 2 introduce some subtle story telling whilst adding filler to one maaaaybe two characters if you have time 3 more filler, more subtle hints and forshadowing 4 small plot twist (like oh! no your dad DID care!) mostly more filler for charlie 5 introduce the big bad character make him more menacing than comedic give him a bit of a lore introduced in the episode 6 more filler, some forshadowing for the big bad villains big bad plot 7-8 a two parter charlie takes the lead kills the big bad villain they have some character adding and at the end you add a teaser for her dad a TEASER he doesnt ACTUALLY appear would this be good writing (i came up with it in the spurr of the moment)
The rewriting you did about merging the storyline of Allister helping Charlie form an army and Velvet already established plot point of wanting to fight back against the angels is genuinely really good writing. There’s so many videos of people doing "Fixes" of media but all they end up doing is writing a fan fiction to make the story appeal more to their liking. Here, it just genuinely feels like what they should’ve done and I legit got surprised when I first heard it because it feels so obvious when pointed out. Kudos!
I genuinely want to know... wtf was Lucifer most of the battle against the hotel?? like he completely fucked off a majority of the fight and considering all he usually does is make ducks all day, what the ACTUAL HELL was he doing off screen??? Edit: i've never had so many likes on anything before wow-
The deal Lucifer made with Heaven made it so he would let the exterminations happen, so long as no hellborns were harmed. When Adam started choking Charlie and physically harming her, the deal was broken and Lucifer was allowed to intervene.
He couldn’t do anything when the exterminators were killing sinners he stepped in when they hurt his daughter, because that wasn’t part of the deal they made with having
As much as I do like Hazbin Hotel, I do agree that the convulted plots, too many characters, and rushed pacing detriments this show's vision to be something great as it is a fresh new idea for an adult animated series that is not just a Family Guy or Simpsons clone. I get we live in the time where seasons have short amounts of episodes, but you can still make a cohesive narrative with only 8 episodes. I'll be making a video in the future on discussing on how to fix Season 1 of Hazbin Hotel and how it can work within the limit amount of episodes it was given, but here's some bullet points. -Have Episode 1 be a remake of the pilot in the new art style and voice cast, so it could introduce new viewers to the series if they didn't want the pilot episode on TH-cam. -Let the 8 episodes revolve around our main characters and how they progressively grow bonds with each other as it focuses on the redeeming sinners plotline. -Have the Vees be the main antagonists of Season 1 and have Adam, Lute, and the hypocrisy of Heaven be saved for Season 2. -Have some episodes lean towards more slice of life through the main characters bonding through Charlie's exercises, so the development doesn't feel nonchalant. -And have the Finale be a two parter where the Vees try and come up a plan to attack the hotel and have our main characters showcase how much they have grown throughout the season and how they've become a new found family with each other. I like to stay optimistic about Hazbin Hotel despite it being a mess, so it's fine if you don't like it while I still do. My ideas for a Season 1 rewrite might not be everyone's cup of tea, but it would've worked for an 8 episode season for Hazbin Hotel in my opinion.
couldn’t agree more with the vees being the main antagonist for season one. just like in the very first episode where the vaggie was trying to make a better commercial for the hotel. they could’ve had the group work together and advertise the hotel but use vox for conflict seeing as how he is a literal tv and could’ve potentially stalled them from airing the commercial instead of 666 news interrupting them
I just don't understand why everyone has "daddy issues". I LIKED the show but for god's sake, charlie has daddy issues? come on? CHARLIE? like give us a break after everyone has daddy issues. it's a common trope in vivziepop's universe and i'm tired of it.
@@hoifzf It’s a recurring thing that happens. I’m learning about the show through reviews and watching episodes with Saberspark because I don’t have Amazon Prime. Okay, first, the princess of hell is the second most powerful demon in the show and had her moment taken away from her by Lucifer coming in to save her from a moment she could have by herself. It’s insulting that the princess of hell loses to Adam, an extermination angel and not a higher up angel like a seraphim. It feels that she cannot fight for her own causes. She’s basically tossed aside. If Carmine can kill an extermination , why can’t Charlie?
@@zed9256 bro what's with the double standard clearly Charlie hasn't fought a ton hell it's in her character to try every other option but fighting so it's obvious she probably wouldn't be super great plus what would be the point of dad beat dad if Lucifer didn't show up like your dismissing story for some fanfiction of what you think makes a character overshadowed she gets plenty of scenes maybe you should do some rewatching because your making 0 sense
@@hoifzf Ok, thank you for the explanation. When I meant overshadowing, I meant the fact that there are characters like Mimzy that are basically just loud and annoying, and Niffty that just is kind of murderous and the comic relief. The best episode by far are the one with Angel Dust and Valentino getting into the territory of sexual assault. Vox and Alastor getting tons of exposition. The only female characters that have some development are Lute and Charlie. And with Vaggie, she was just the protector figure. I hope the show expands upon her redemption as an ex-exterminator angel.
Everything regarding the angle weapons is easily the worst part of the show. Add onto everything you well articulated, Vaggie apparently had no clue an angles weapons could hurt them. You know, the same weapons that ripped her wings and her eye off. It could’ve been so easy to fix that, maybe Vaggie did keep that info from Charlie cause she was afraid. No Vivzy said, all characters are ironically like Adam described, black and white, good or bad.
Which would back up Charlie's feelings of doubt and distrust toward Vaggie. The reveal about being an angel would mean more than just charlies and vaggie's relationship; Vaggie would be withholding valuable information that actually affected other people: by hiding her knowledge about the weapons, she is preventing hell's citizens from protecting themselves.
The cast should've been cut down to more essential characters for an eight episode format. Here's my thoughts... Charlie: She's our main character. Angel: His arc should be given more time to pace out, and build up his friendship with Husker, and Charlie. Husker: Should take Alastors role as chained up herald of a mysterious force. Learns to lighten up, and grows attach to the hotel. Sir Pentious & Nifty: Perfect at what they do. Velvette: Should be the full on embodiment of the Vee's. A modern day show stealer. Using the new age of social media to sew her influence. Contrasted with a hypothetical Overlord Huskers more old timey gentleman ways. Furthering a potential rivalry for abusing her star attraction Angel Dust. Acting as a secondary antagonist until the finale. Where she makes a alliance with the Hotel out of survival. Adam: Stay as our main villain. Because he could be perfect. If you pull a twist with his constant swearing. Making him say stuff like "Oh my fudge, you dumb dog!". Making him still crude, but parodying the Vivisepop style of humor. Lute, Sera, and Emily: Fine as they are.
@@scourgeanimations444 Given to or given BY someone else? If the latter, then who? I can't really see anyone else in the show giving someone relationship advice. Maybe Husk, I guess? But no one else.
I'd actually argue that vivzie isn't that great at writing at all, but she's fantastic at writing concepts. Her writing is very everything or nothing. I mean look at all the "lore" she's dropped over time in live streams. She waaaaay overcomplicates the characters, not to mention how she gives character ethnicities and orientations that just aren't shown at all in the final product. Which is pretty f'ing to tone deaf for a queer creator. It's such a shame cause there's so much potential. The characters like just on paper are very interesting, but my god most of them are so bland in the show. But I will say the voice actors did a great job, and most of them are Broadway actors so that makes sense
Vaggie was supposed to be El Salvadorian during the pilot era but now that she’s an angel, I assume that’s been nixed. It sucks because her being El Salvadorian was actually one of the reasons I was interested in the show simply because I’d never seen a character that was of that ethnicity and having her be a woc was what endeared her to me. But Vaggie has basically no character and is wasted potential in the actual show.
I’m black and trust me, I am not tripping that there aren’t any black characters in this show, I watch for what it is. I got bills to pay and a real life 😂
@@pterodactyl662this shitepile of rubbish and condom wrappers written with swears lad. That IS her humor instead of actually mature humor with proper jokes of any. This was not it lad.
I agree with most if not all of the changes you would have made, especially making Emily Charlie's love interest. However, I wouldn't write out Vaggie from the show. Instead, I would have Vaggie's defection/basement from the Exorcists happen much earlier in the timeline with her being found by a much younger Charlie. Lucifer would then essentially adopt Vaggie due to him realizing she's an angel and empathizing with her, but not telling Charlie she's an angel. This would make Vaggie take on an older sister role for Charlie due to her gratefulness for being rescued and would match how she mostly seems to act in the show, an overprotective sister rather than a lover/significant other. You could even have Vaggie be the one to secretly kill the angel to protect Carmilla and her daughters due to seeing their love for each other. This would give Vaggie a more personal connection to Carmilla who would keep her secret out of thankfulness and agree to give them angel weapons to defend themselves, but only enough for the hotel residence because as stated in Helluva Boss angel weapons are rare. Also, I wouldn't make the Exorcists such pushovers, the reason the dead angel should be such a big deal is that having an angel weapon should only give a demon a fighting chance but not a guarantee due to Exorcists being warriors with centuries of experience. Also to make things more realistic I wouldn't make the dead angel the first, but rather have the characters say something like "The number of Exorcists that have died in Exterminations can be counted on two hands." You could even have Alistor be one of the ones who managed to kill one further enhancing his reputation and why he is so feared.
This is awesome! This would also help us get more into the dynamics of this universe. The fighting style of the angels could also be used as they all have wings and are accustomed to a fighting style that involves them, that cloud be used as a target, shoot for the wings and finish them once they hit the ground.
Viv didn’t even have to scrap any characters, all she should’ve done it kept some characters for a different season and time instead of adding everyone and all the ideas into the same box hoping it would work but it ends up an entire mess. The Heaven bit could’ve been saved at the end of season 2 into potentially season 3
I can summarize everything wrong with the series in one sentence: this isn't the show that we waited for. The hazbin Hotel pilot was hazbin Hotel. The series is not.
Vivzie feels like a DeviantArt kid who never adapted to being a showrunner. -She can't stomach the idea of her super cool OCs (plz do not steal) not being included in her story -Overreacting to any criticism, often hypocritically and publicly (she really needs to separate her personal Twitter from her work Twitter) -Feels like adding cursing and sex=maturity, so she tries to be as "mature" as possible -Character designs range from tastefully detailed to having so many accessories that they look like a scrapbook -Thinking that just by reversing popular roles, it makes the story way deeper (what if Heaven...was bad?) I say all this not out of hate, but more so disappointment. I saw a ton of potential in Vivienne back when the pilot came out and even before then, but she's seemingly done all she can to make the worst decisions possible when handling Hazbin Hotel.
I'm in the same boat. Having high hopes with the pilot, but after reading the reviews and mutuals reaction to both shows, it's absolutely mind boggling to screw up this badly! Not to mention the gossip, as well as the controversies behind Viv, spindlehorse and the fandom. It's best to stay away and to keep ones sanity.
Counterpoint: After Disney cancelled The Owl House, Netflix did the same with Cognito Inc and Warner Bros is even destroying already finished movies like Coyote vs Acme, I really can't blame Vivzie (an independent creator who just got picked up by the big guys in Hollywood) for rushing up the show while also keeping it somewhat consistent enough for a second season to make sense. The industry is killing animation by cancelling good shows in favour of greenlighting regular-to-bad ones for profit, like TTGO, or exploiting old products like The Simpsons. And if you, who were just a regular youtuber less than a decade ago, get picked out by Hollywood and Broadway, and have to compete in an environment where even great show creators like Alex Hirsch or Dana Terrace had to suffer through, you'll obviously mess up big because the nerves that such a situation causes are something we'll never understand until being in her place. Forget about her character as a person or whether or not you agree with her political takes, whatever; put that aside and focus on the fact that any indie creator could fail big in those circumstances and that we have to be ready to expect that Still, Viv made a good show in that environment and it will serve as inspiration for other creators who might have been let down to continue working on their independent projects. It may not be the greatest thing on Earth, or Hell, but I'm pretty sure it can start a new trend within animation just like Chowder at the end gave us gems like Regular Show, Gravity Falls, The Owl House, Amphibia, etc. I know I'm putting too much faith on Hazbin Hotel to say that, and on Viv herself, but as I said I don't really care about her character but rather the road she's paving for other people. We could say the same about Glitch Studios tho, if we ignore their controversy
Not to mention it's not uncommon for a show's first season, especially one as short as this one's, to be a bit rough around the edges. The first season of Buffy the Vampire Slayer is only okay with some weird writing choices, but every season after that significantly improved and now it's remembered as one of the best supernatural shows out there. The first 8-ish episodes of The Owl House, Avatar: The Last Airbender, and even Gravity Falls had their low moments, but the show got better the longer it went. I am not as well-versed in the drama surrounding Vivzie or what goes down in Helluva Boss so there might be some things I'm missing about her writing and character, but I want to believe that this show will gradually improve once S2 comes around and will hopefully deliver on the potential of its world and characters by the time the show ends. This first season is riddled with flaws but there is more than enough good for Vivzie to nurture and grow and all I can hope is that S2 and onward will deliver.
this is why im not lettin anyone touch my comic its either i will get control or i will make it myself its weird, Netflix payed like millions of dollars on a show like green eggs and ham and then spend little of that money on other shows, like Netflix doesn't know how to juggle the money correctly
Totally. If Steven Universe had been more recently released they would've cancelled it by its first season - which would be insane. I don't blame the production for being so rushed in trying to wrap up most major thing quickly, but I still can't understand why they didn't do it in two seasons given Amazon has greenlit them a second season before the first one even aired.
@@diamoond11Funny you say that cus even then Steven Universe was initially supposed to end with Ocean Gem (hence the end credits playing then). It was renewed just after the episode got positive reviews.
Behold, a better S1 story structure. E1: Introduce Charlie and Vaggie. Establish that they've been basically squatting at the hotel for 7 years trying to get her idea up and running. Basic worldbuilding shit, extermination in a week etc. Introduce Alastor at the end, fresh from his 7 year absence. E2: Split between Angel and Cherry's introduction/how they hear of the hotel as a free place to crash at. And Charlie, Vaggie, Al, Husk, and Nifty getting the place more presentable. We also see the Vs here as antsgonistic forces. E3: Establish Pentious and his beef with Alastor. End with him and his eggboys attacking the hotel and getting dumpstered by Al. E4: Pentious returns to the hotel to apologize and help rebuild. Giving Charlie the first glimmer of hope for her idea. E5: Angel snd Cherry arrive making a big show of wanting redemption, but nobody other than Charlie is buying it. This is the first real friction her idea receives as nobody really WANTS to be there for her idea. It's also revealed she got the hotel from her dad, who was so distraught by her intentions that he closed himself off from her. So they haven't spoken since then. E6: Split between the hotel crew interacting/bonding/arguing, and the Overlords who are discussing Alastor's return. Keen to know why he's settled up at a dingy hotel with hell's royalty. It's revealed that Vox has sent Pentious as a double agent, using his hatred of Alastor as leverage. E7: The hotel project falls apart. Pentious is outed. Angel and Cherry throw a kegger while Charlie, Al, and Vaggie are dealing with Pentious and the Vs. They leave after Alastor scares the partygoers off. E8: Extermination day. Introduce Adam and Lute as they cut through the city. This drives Pentious, Angel, and Cherry back to the hotel, hoping Charlie can keep them safe. Then we get a big ol action scene ending with Alastor squaring off with Adam as the angels close in on the rest of the cast. End with Charlie revealing the contract signed by her father which fir totally legal reasons gives everyone under that roof protection from extermination. Adam reads it over, sees the bullshit, but is bound by the agreement. So he gives them a year to get redeemed, or he will kill all of them first.
Fun fact, they Are created a weapon from angelic steel, at helluva boss, striker was about to kill stolas by using a freaking gun made from angelic steel and said what it can even kill deamon royalty. So yeah they use that steel, but gust not against angels....for some reason
The real problem is & im not gonna sugarcoat this, viv is a character designer not a script writer in my personal opinion, I really think that the first season should’ve introduced us to the characters slowly and gradually and introduced us to the universe instead of involving this huge plot thing that really should’ve been reserved for season two or season three
Heck they could have still had that ticking clock huge plot line, and STILL had it concluded at the end of season 2 or 3. Bro the first season was supposed to be over the course of 6 months. 6 MONTHS. That's plenty of time for world building and character!
This show failed to connect to the intended audience (late teens early adults) and literally is only seen as a good relevant show by like 10-14 year olds. Some of the songs were catchy but other than that I really don’t think this was worth the wait.
@@voomvoom4522Jesus' sacrifice was there to open the chances to go to Heaven again. It's like country opened itself to apply for citizenship. Christ only opened the gates of Heaven to give us the chance to go there.
Thats right but why they just kill everyone on sight, the people who stole or bullied, they absolutely can be redeemed, and the bad people wont just go to heaven they gotta actually change not just want it
How did Vaggie not know that an angel can be damaged by angelic weapons when she is an angel who was injured by angelic weapons... This fact makes Carmilla doubly useless
The pilot was way better. It gave hell such an out of touch vibe and now it feels like some edgy Gacha life music video and so empty too. Everything was taken so unserious and had to be said to the characters so they’d understand what’s going on which is ridiculous since the fandom has been known for interpreting everything including bits and pieces for the last 4 years. It could have been really good
8 episodes is enough to tell a story if you tell ONE story The premise of the show that sold me was "Can sinners be redeemed?" I wanted to see THAT. I didn't want to see another Heaven vs Hell war story, I watched all 15 seasons of Supernatural, I fucking got it. I wanted to see if these people who fucked up in life could find redemption. But we didn't get that. They could have **easily** spent the entirety of season 1 on the cast in the Hotel and fleshing them out so we give a damn about all of them, and have season 8 end with meeting Adam and him being like "Oh btw; extermination in 6 months." You have a solid start with season 1, we care about the characters and we now have a cliffhanger and hook into season 2 that could then be a call to arms.
The show went incredibly fast paced in a short amount of time, that I completely forgot that the time spawn of the 8 episodes combined in show, is supposed to be about *6 F*CKING MONTHS!*
Oh, Charlie teaming up with the Vees could’ve introduced some FANTASTIC moral dilemmas. Which. Moral dilemmas seem like the perfect thing for a show where redemption is ostensibly the premise. Velvette is the social media demon; if anyone can teach Charlie how to reach the masses, it’s her. She also, uh, seems to favor expedience, which could help Charlie become more assertive in the face of uncertainty. On the other hand, Charlie wouldn’t appreciate Velvette bossing around the hotel denizens like she does her own workers. (Nifty probably wouldn’t mind though, in fact I could see Velvette taking a liking to her for her enthusiasm.) There’s also the fact that Velvette manufactures and sells the roofies that people (mostly Val but clearly not only Val) use on Angel, but of the Vees she seems to be the least aware of Angel’s general existence, so there could be some tension there. Velvette could probably clue in that Vaggie is an exorcist, too, and realize that Charlie doesn’t know yet, and maybe instead of Adam it’s the Vees who try to use this against Vaggie somehow; not in any way that would jeopardize the hotel’s chances against the exorcists, but just to shift things in their own favor a bit. Vox has his rivalry with Alastor, of course, but if the Vees team up with Charlie then we could actually see what comes of VoxTech Angelic Security. Maybe he ends up collaborating with resident weapons expert Sir Pentious and realizes that the guy isn’t so worthless after all, but this manifests as him taking advantage of Pentious’s knowledge and skill because he still doesn’t see Pentious as an equal, just a fool with a few good ideas. He also…I’m not sure how to describe whatever his dynamic would be with Angel. He seems to understand that Angel lives in Val’s head rent-eternal but he doesn’t have any attention to spare for Angel himself. There’s this almost professional distance that Vox holds Angel at, for lack of a better term. And then there’s Val, but this comment is already long enough.
It seems like this show’s writers really struggle with “kill your darlings”. This is a writing rule which basically means that sometimes the parts of your work you love the most are holding you back and often need to get cut
Can't believe after years of him being a vague image, nearly Firelord Ozai on the level of mysteriousness, only for Charlie to literally use him as a fucking way to get what she wants. VIV TURNED LUCIFER. INTO A DEUS. EX. MACHINA.
The angelic steel (holy weapons) really left me scratching my head because of how inconsistent the rules are for it. We see the exterminators leaving their weapons behind in the pilot and Carmines daughters picking it up because Vivzie said how there is a black market for it. But than Carmine herself says how it's obvious Vaggie is a former angel because she has a angelic weapon... Which she could have picked up like anyone else or bought. So that only is confusing because it's like the writing team taking a jab to both supporters and non supporters of "Vaggie is a angel" theory by saying it's so obvious, it's not special if you noticed. But than your also dumb if you didn't. Also, Lute says in episode one how hellborns like Charlie "were spared a exorcists blade" by her dad making a deal. Now, that could just mean hellborns aren't suppose to be hunted down in the cleanse BUT, how would they know who's a sinner and who's a demon? They all look pretty similar unfortunately so I can't see them just knowing. So, to me, it would sound more like the holy weapons can only kill sinners and not hellborns. Yet in Helluva Boss, they get holy weapons to kill demons. Specificly Striker owning a "genuine hand crafted Carmilla holy tipped rifle" to kill Stolas. So can holy weapons kill hellborns or not??! And if yes, what was that whole line from Lute about?? Just, hhh... More examples of not very solid writing in my books. It's even funnier knowing Vivz says the pilot is cannon to HH, yet we see Carmine with Zestial and Lucifer when the cleanse ends so HOW was she with her daughters and got ambushed???
It's implied that the exorcist's masks have something to do with assisting them in determining who is and isn't fair game. Once Adam and the other exorcists start breaking the rules and attacking Charlie, for example, their masks begin to glitch out, presumably because the users are overriding their inbuilt programming. Still, that doesn't explain how angels don't know that angelic weapons can harm them, or why they'd leave their spears laying around if they did
One thing I hated was the fact I could never figure out the power scale. Alastor < charlie, cause she’s the princess of hell and he’s just an overlord. Why was his fight with adam.. better? He’s getting hits on Adam, Adam seems somewhat worried about it, and then Adam nearly kills him. But Charlie, princess of hell, two magical girl transformations in, stabs his wing and blocks a punch from Adam… what???
One of the most upsetting parts of how Hazbin turned out is that I think most people were expecting a Bridge Kids-esque comedy show of shenanigans at the hotel, which could’ve had so much potential, but then were veered into focusing on an aspect of the world we didn’t really expect or want at this point, and then a ton of attempted world-building gets dumped on top of that. One of my all time favorite movies is a 1975 film called “Nashville.” It focuses on the convergence of musicians, politicians, lawyers, and regular people who are in Nashville in the days leading up to a political rally. It expertly manages to take a cast of 24 characters and makes them all feel evenly fleshed out, or at least represented, in an amount of time almost identical to Hazbin Hotel’s total runtime. 8 22-minute episodes could be an immense challenge, but it’s doable, it’s just a matter of focusing on the right aspects of the story and bringing out the best parts of the characters you start with through their interconnected relationships with each other.
What interested me most about the series was seeing these 6 characters living in a shared space and having adventures together. Not a wattpad fanfiction about what happened after the pilot.
My boyfriend and I repeatedly said that the show seems like it’s weirdly “scared of tension” - most attempts at buildup or meaningful moments are cheapened or rushed past. It’s like that friend who can’t have a real moment with you without awkward laughter
LMAO this is HILARIOUS because you act like there’s way more gay relationships than male friends nowadays. 😂 Not trying to be mean but I could probably list some recent male friendships now just from watching JJK! Lol.
@@VintageToilet There’s been an erasure of good friendships in general honestly, but I will admit it is mostly between men and women. Cant tell you how many times a piece of media has been ruined by an unnecessary relationship or love triangle
@@rubyred6608760Now I can agree that this is moreso a problem between male and female relationships. There’s so many times I’ve watched something not prepared for a girl and guy bestfriend to become a couple and go “oh!”.
"Did you know angels could be harmed?"
"No..."
Says the one who got harmed... As an angel... BY AN ANGELIC WEAPON...
My theory with this is just that she was embarrassed, and didn’t want to admit that she knew this. Same reason with her reaction when Charlie says that angels can be killed. She sort of stutters and her line “I didn’t even know that was possible”, doesn’t really seem believable.
@@Pseudonym05 My theory is that the writers weren't paying attention when they wrote that line. It's a pretty good theory, if I do say so myself.
@@crazycookie4645I agree because this whole show clearly has massive issues with the writing
Show has massive problems but I'd say that Vaggie might've just thought that angels could only be harmed by other angels
Lote also gets her head banged on a table and has visible damage done to her
The pilot: sinners can acknowledge they’re mistake's and be redeemed
The show: Heaven is bad Hell is cool
That's true...
I get wanting to give ppl second chances. But most ppl in hell would be irredeemable. Especially the older ones such as Zestial. If Charlie acting KNEW what she was doing and understood that not everyone can change it would be way better. I also get Heavens hypocrisy because it's real. Kinda. Some religious people as wonderful a d forgiving and some are hypocritical. My nan got kicked out of 2 churches for a divorce, ive always found that extremely unfair. But Viv has to accept that people in Heaven WILL ON SOME LEVEL BE MOSTLY GOOD. I never connected with Charlie but I agree with her character if that makes sense..
They did the heaven so dirty!
@@elena.a5905 I know
Wdym? Only Adam and his army are supposed to be bad people. The winners are living great after-lives while the sinners are not
Personally I’m sad about how they seemed to have done a complete 180 with Cherri. In the addict music video, she’s shown as a very supportive figure to Angel, sitting with him during breakdowns and overdoses, seeming to want to get him out of his situation as much as he does. But in the shows she’s now this like??? Instigator for some reason??? She peer pressured him to go out when he didn’t want to and that wasn’t the Cherri that we were shown in that mv. Kind of disappoint tbh.
Being a friend who supports your guys hobbies and you as a person and being a instigator and encouraging you to do those hobbies again even if it is peer pressury isn't exactly a 180 though like that doesn't seem to be a contradiction of the Cherri we were shown in the mv.
@@Jdudec367 that’s fair, just the characterization of her not really caring about Angel trying to make a change (whether or not the change is believable to the audience is up for debate but she was told that he was) is sort of… jarring? At least to me.
@@old_memoriaa I see...well I guess kinda agree to disagree then but fair enough tbh.
@@Jdudec367 that’s totally fair. It’s up to interpretation after all
I can completely get that, but I do feel like they were attempting to go for the common problem with people trying to recover from addiction being that, sometimes, their friends are also addicted. So, unfortunately, your friends may try to get you to relapse by trying to cheer you up with whatever your addiction is because they know it cheers you up and they also want to do it.
However, even in that case, I feel like the show didn't portray that well simply because we don't see Cherri that often. We don't get to fully see how addicted she is, or see her hanging out with Angel that often to establish that sort of friendship.
They literally introduce Lucifer and resolve his conflict with Charlie in the same episode.
Your on your leds get off em.
They didn’t need to stretch that plotline out, it was meant to lead into her going to heaven and finding out that the angels don’t know how people get into heaven and charlie finding out Vaggie was an exorcist angel
@@yaniktheyoutuber But it was a huge conflict that dealt with childhood trauma and years of tension. It just felt too short/unsatisfying.
Next episode, they introduce Emily, an angel committed to spreading joy to Heaven, and she turns against the rules when she just found out about the Extermination.
That’s called being a normal person who communicates with their family. Lucifer wanted literally any reason to get off his ass and spend time with his daughter and literally like anything would have convinced him. You’re so right they should have a frustrating multi episode conflict full of contrivances to keep it going even as it has literally no narrative purpose. I pray you do not write anything because this is an extremely hacky way of having characters come into conflict.
Why does everyone in this universe have daddy issues
maybe because vive got daddy issues? or its common for such a fandom? 😂
@@anapple6912 actually she has a good relashionship with her father🤓👆(she just doesn't has creativity)
Right? With the exception of Millie, it seems like every single Vivziepop character who has a father that we see in the show has daddy issues of some kind. Blitz has daddy issues. Moxxie has daddy issues. Octavia has daddy issues. Loona has daddy issues. Stolas (kinda) has daddy issues. Charlie has "daddy issues". Everyone's got daddy issues. I get that it's an effective setup for character drama (when it's done well) but it gets redundant when you have so many different characters who all have the same problem.
Because that’s probably the only character Viv knows how to write.
@teamtx1578 fizzarolli doesn't have daddy issues and Charlie's daddy issues got solved very quickly
I hate this thing nowadays were show creators and writers are too scared to slow down because they are afraid of cancellation. Its better to have a well paced and thought out show with maybe some of the cast of characters that potentially could end in a cliff hanger if cancelled than a rushed and messy product that doesnt tell the story well nor make time for certain characters.
Charlie feels like a secondary character in her own show.
Absolutely this!
France and Japan made & make shows that they took time with and they didnt & dont care for cancellation, we Americans need to have that FU mindset when making these type of shows, if not then provide something below that demographic.
As someone who grew up with shows in the 2000s, I will take any number of flaws over an unresolved cliffhanger:
Look at teen titans and samurai jack like that’s crazy
@@Alecations well if Viv was a better writer and show runner then maybe that wouldn’t happen if she learned how to utilize just 8 episodes or she probably could have just negotiated getting more. But I’d rather events leading up to a cliffhanger than an underwhelming end and being left disappointed in the show over all.
@@wildflowerproductions1414bruh, 8 episodes is not normal. Most shows have 20. Give viv a break, geez.
Lucifer didn't even seem bad? Like apparently Charlie has "daddy issues" like no, she really didn't
He literally sends Charlie to meet with Adam knowing damn well Adam is about to crush her dreams...
@@AE_15x I'm pretty sure she scheduled that meeting herself.
@AE_15x and if this is about the heaven meeting she actively begged for it and he said no repeatedly.
@@bearysorry5009 Dude what? In episode 1 Charlie speaks with his Dad and Lucifer asks for her to go to the meeting.
You guys are talking about 2 instances
The whole show feels very rushed. There’s a lot of big dramatic moments, but many of them don’t mean anything because we’ve barley had any time to get to know the characters in them.
Well, you can *barley* spell so forgive me if I don’t trust your narrative analysis of the character beats in the show
@@FloofMotherrelax dude
@@Birdyboys I’m evil and I have no chill
@@Birdyboys what are you, an industry plant?
@@FloofMother Lmao you good man? Bad spelling or not, op has a point. You need a Snickers or smth?
The show undermined its own premise literally in the first 3 minutes of episode 1.
Why should we expect Charlie’s hotel idea to work if she flat out tells us in the storybook that the exterminations take place not out of overpopulation, but rather to stop an uprising?
Season 1 would have focused on the hotel pitch and the Vees, not immediately showing heaven to be antagonistic. That should have been reserved for season 2.
Basically the finished product should have switched the premises for season 1 and 2 around.
Apparently they were afraid of the show being cancelled so they crammed in everything. Which is sad since that means that we only get snippets of a plot rather than give it time. The Vees are pretty much irrelevant so why are they so prominent? Vox got absolutely disrespected by Alastor in his own diss track. Velvette is only relevant in revealing the exorcist's head and getting Carmilla to reveal how she killed an angel. While this may look like Velvette is important for causing a domino effect, it actually just made her a plot device since she herself didn't do anything with this information. The only one that seemed important was Valentino, given his connection to Angel Dust, but even he is made into a plot device that served to highlight Charlie's case for Angel Dust, which didn't change anything anyway. Also, it wouldn't make much sense for the Vees to be the next villains given that the heroes had just killed the much more powerful Adam and this time has the support of Lucifer. What can they possibly do?
Lucifer and Lilith had split since Charlie was a kid and Charlie has obvious daddy issues (what a surprise), but the latter part gets resolved in the span of one episode where she reconciled with her dad.
The angels not knowing what gets a soul into Heaven kinda speaks more about the writers than the angels. How do these celestials who, by Charlie's own words "worshipped good and shielded all from evil", had been expanding the universe and oversaw heaven for millennia, not know how someone makes it to heaven?
I agree with this, though I will say that another way to stop an uprising is to convert "the enemy" to your side, so preventing an uprising being the reason doesn't make Charlie's hotel idea null and void.
However the inconsistency in explanation of exterminations within show is annoying
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Overpopulation=more people=more power to attack heaven.
By redeeming sinners, they wouldn’t become a threat to heaven anymore since they would be a part of heaven, so it therefore can replace the exterminations. The logic still works here, granted the thought process should have been shown more clearly.
If people get into Heaven, that means less people in Hell so less chances of an uprising… there is no contradiction here
Razzle and dazzle (the goat/dragons) were meant as guards for Charlie made with the power of Lucifer. They could have had the power beyond the other sins but are made worthless in a single scene.
dazzle got one shot lmao
Forreal😂 I went. "Am I supposed to feel sad one of them died? We didn't know any of their importance or spend time with them!"
@@aaunyea4799Last time I checked it was okay to feel bad that an animal died without needing to know it's life story.
@@metaloverlord7465 Dude they Are barely even worthy of Being called pets. They have IMP level intelligance.
Yea I was so confused as to how a single exterminator was able to kill one of hells most powerfull beings
Charlie's "daddy issues" are SO shoehorned in it doesn't even make sense. Like her father tries at every point to spare her feelings, offers her anything he can giver her, and keeps in touch with her. Like even if her mom kept them apart it's been 7 years, there isn't a barrier anymore. Just Vivziepop cramming random garbage into the already overloaded cast
… except for that one part where he mocks everything she stands for right in front of her, as the hotel is getting attacked
I mean charlie is like 200 brodie 193 years of distance is pretty hard to get over and I think that was the point. I know plenty of people who feel a lot of distance from their parents (especially in their early 20s) but that doesn’t mean their parents are really bad or anything just they may have been a little disapproving and failed to reach out to their kid and as jay in modern family so eloquently put it 90% of being a dad is showing up. If u don’t show up there will be distance and even some spite there
He has depression, I believe that is going to hinder a healthy relationship somewhat (and yes I am making an understatement and it is meant to be sarcastic). For a relationship to go awry, the father doesn't have to be a bad guy. I mean they are also people with their own issues. Also, I really don't think Charlie's issues with her father are exaggerated in any way. They are enstranged... imagine you try to re-connect but fail again and again, there is a ton of misunderstanding and you also cannot make up for the time that has been lost. Yes, you can communicate but that does not mean you will click because you are out of touch and it can be very frustrating and awkward because you once were so close. Actually I liked this part because in most shows the enstrangement magically resolves or the father is just a bad guy but rarely such a dynamic
From what I can tell from the pilot, it's likely a leftover of an older, scrapped plot point that just didn't get removed from Charlie's character.
@@books2438he insulted her once... Angel dust AND Alcester have done much worse
I watched Dumbsville's review, and I think he hit the nail on the head when he said the problem with the show is that it's too ambitious. Like, Hazbin Hotel wants to do all of these things at once, but since it's only 8 episodes, they have to jam pack everything they wanted to do, leading to the show feeling disorienting, and for some ideas to get less focus. I think they should've spent more time this season developing the characters, and then saving some of the more complicated stuff, like the war between heaven and hell, for season 2, once everything is more developed. As is, it's kind of a mess.
I always feel if you know you can't achieve something with the right amount of time and care, just don't. Do something else, smaller but more concrete and meaning. Chris Reeve wanted Superman IV to be this epic story but when the budget was slashed he still went ahead with a half baked gigantic script. Viv is desperate to get an epic story out of this before the plug gets pulled, but long term I'd have been much happier with a cut off but still effective show.
th-cam.com/video/CZRz5cCt8Cs/w-d-xo.htmlsi=5hbzhF-M8yzqnTBV
Yeah. It’s a subpar show.
That’s what I was thinking, it’s like the writers had so many ideas they had to cram them in the episode. When there are it goes by so fast and the writers don’t take any time to slowly resolve problems.
I wish Viv would have shopped around for someone else to carry her show so she could tell the story correctly. It's always going to be a huge let down now.
So many people keep defending the pacing because they only have 8 episodes but other people have been able to make fantastic shows with only a few episodes so the excuse doesn’t work
Yeah, Don't Hug Me I'm Scared has only 6 episodes, yet the pacing is really good.
@@jeremyusreevu237 Should I watch it?
@@zed9256 No shit sherlock it's better then hazbin hotel, oh yeah and people ACTUALLY MADE IT into a show that makes cohesive sense. With some youtube explinations for the visual story telling and deeper meaning. Compared to this....DHMIS is wayyy better.
@@ownerlesscat7523 I’ll give it a go!
I do get your point but also I don't think every type story can fit into a short amount of episodes. Good shows that have done well with a short amount of episodes work because they were created or molded to fit that amount of time. Hazbin Hotel's story wasn't.
To be honest, after Helluva Boss’s slow decline, this didn’t surprise me. I think it’s okay to admit that Viv’s strongest talent when it comes to writing is getting people attached to her characters (and that only works sometimes).
Also, I don’t believe the show would have been better with more episodes, simply because I think Viv would just use it to incorporate more characters. Helluva boss is in its second season and all this entire show has just been introducing a new OC for the audience to get attached to.
I see you on almost every Hazbin hotel and Helluva boss related video lol, hello! 👋 But yeah I agree, I think Viv is very talented in animation and in drawing (her drawings are what inspired my art style) but yeah writing is really not her strongest ability and I don’t get why some people get so attached to these characters because a lot of them are just poorly written or they’re just “wasted potential”
Did AyyLmao commit sexual harassment
Is what you said about Ayy Lmao true?
@@gerbera3696honestly I prefer helluva boss now but I can agree that it lost its original premise
@@gerbera3696it’s almost like elevator pitches have literally nothing to do with the actual narrative a person wants to tell. If Helluva Boss was just “demon assassin show” it would’ve gotten old after the third episode. “Demon assassins” is the conceit upon which the show is founded, not the story it was trying to tell. “It didn’t stay true to the premise” who cares? Are you an industry plant?
One thing that I’ve noticed a lot of TH-cam commentators fail to mention is the fact that the Hazbin pilot is somehow way more expressive than the actual show. I rewatched the pilot AND the first three episodes back to back with a friend and the difference was night and day! It kinda makes me wonder what could’ve been if Hazbin Hotel stayed a SpindleHorse indie production like it’s sister show Helluva Boss.
The main issues are the budget and outsourcing. Most studios only handle storyboarding in-house and leave it to Korean studios to do the actual animating, and Korean studios will only animate according to the storyboards they've been given. They do not have time to put up with your shit (so if you send bad storyboards, that's what you're getting back) or treat your show with any special care.
You would absolutely get better results keeping it in-house, both because the animators are more dedicated to the project they're on and because you can communicate with them directly. I think the Hazbin pilot has a tendency toward being a little slippery, but looking at what they've done in Helluva Boss you can definitely see how gorgeous the work can get. But the problem goes back to budget: the Korean studios are cheap, and if you give them good input you'll get good output (and Hazbin, while not as nice as the Spindlehorse team's output, is still a great looking show). They also provide a pretty quick turnaround for the work they have to do.
You keep it in-house and you're paying a lot more for a much slower production, and you really have to weigh whether the difference in quality is worth it. And the fact of the matter is, the general public doesn't really care about animation quality unless it's spectacularly bad. Sadly, the extra investment is pretty much never worthwhile.
This right here. I like the overall show but there were scarce scenes that I felt reminded me of the disturbingly quirky, cathartic energy of the TH-cam pilot. From the moment episode 1 started it felt like a different show. I’m guessing due to staffing changes or just corporate company oversight?
Theres a video on hazbin hotel by roamingtrend that talks about the pilot! I think you'll like it if you check it out
It's like Hello Neighbor, and how Alpha 1 is better than the final game
The pilot is better then the whole season,
I still think it was a wasted opportunity in the second episode that it was Charlie-and only Charlie-who continued to vouch for Pentious and not Angel Dust.
Hear me out.
"It Starts With Sorry" starts right after we see Vox chewing out Pentious for getting caught, calling him a failure and even going as far as to tell him to off himself.
I was 90% expecting a moment where Angel Dust (who had just outed Pentious as a mole) has a moment (even if it's just a blink-and-you-miss it change of expression) where he's like "Oh shit..." and clearly starts to see a bit of himself in Pentious, and thinks "maybe he and I aren't so different." And so he eventually (maybe a bit begrudgingly) sides with Charlie when she chooses to give him a second chance.
I mean, just minutes ago (in the same episode) we had the scene where Angel is listening to his voicemails from Valentino. They were clearly setting up parallels and yet... they didn't do anything with them for some reason?
damn that's such a good idea! so much wasted potential with this show
I hate and love how the fans can come with more creative and better ideas than the own writers of this show
But isn't Charlie supposed to be the one reaching out and trying to redeem people? Like are you saying that Angel should be the one to come up with the idea of giving him a second chance or?
@@Jdudec367That's not what they're saying, they're saying that Charlie would come up with the idea of giving him a chance and Angel Dust would agree, which was obvious, since they pretty much said exactly that.
@@_ThoughtlessHour_ I mean... ok but I don't get what parallels they were setting up between Angel and Pentious really cuz there really weren't many if any. And yeah Angel realistically would take a while to trust Pentious which is exactly what happened.
One of the things that pisses me off story wise, is that we have no reason to give a shit about the sinners.
Like, every sinner we have met is a massive asshole and a criminal. I blame that on Viv's idea of humor, she thinks making sinners constantly make sex jokes and innuendos, as well as constant violemce funny, but that ends up making everyone there the same. Why should we believe any of these people can be redeemed? That they deserve to live? They never show us someone who commited an extremely arbitrary mistake that makes them being sent to hell with actual criminals unfair.
Give us characters that arent just shouting swear words and being assholes.
I was gonna bring Mrs. Mayberry up as an example to back up your point about going to Hell over an arbitrary mistake, because she was shown as such a kind and beloved teacher at first, but... nah, she did go to murder her cheating husband and the woman he was cheating with the moment she found out
@reptiliannoizezz.413 and then she offed herself after.
Admittedly the woman she went after was also quite horrible as we find out in that episode. The irony was funny.
And later we're shown that the two got together but I think that was done as a mini joke about irony or something.
But like Mayberry allowed herself to become overcome with rage. She realistically could be redeemed.
I do also think sir pentious was redeemable, as he was one of the few in the cast that wasn't an a-hole for the haha funnies.
He had a little more depth. I felt more connection with pentious than I did cherri for example.
I think an interesting character would be someone who was sent to hell for a smaller sin that has become worse because they’re in hell
@Kori888_ccI’ve got an interesting idea for a HH OC who is in hell because they were desperate for money and resorted to a life of crime but wasnt a bad person underneath. Just someone stuck in a bad situation.
@ this is what Hazbin should’ve been about and not some people who form what we’ve seen may still deserve being in hell
Realized characters who are dating that are made by vivzie one character is made for their partner and that’s all their there for, example VaggiexCharlie and MoxiexMillie
Eh Stolas has some autonomy beyond Blitzø
Notice how those ships you use as a example has women in there lol. Isn’t Vivziepop great at writing women characters
Yeah definitely not the best at making women characters and relationships 😭
What a surprise the fetishizing fujo does not care about their female characters lol
@@poppi8432 and Hazbin is supposed to be the '...more female-focused' show ;P
The thing that bothers me most is that having such a huge focus on the main characters in the past few years (Pilot, comics, livestreams, etc) made me expect them to get a lot of attention in the show. I was ready for a deep dive into what makes them tick and how they would be able to work together in the hotel.
Instead we end up with them forming friendships behind the scenes, solving their personal issues as soon as they appear, and Angel Dust going clean in the blink of an eye, just so we could get to the Heaven fight. I can't stand this kind of storytelling and it just isn't the show I was hoping for all these years.
There's so many things that couldn't been cut out and replaced to do more and better but what we have is the exact same kind of writing with problems and things a waste of time & reason to be there Viv gives in HB. I want her gone, Episode 1-7 of HB with Brandon was amazing and I want her kept out & someone or a group to change things, she's not trusted given full control over the writing part of these shows and wanted her gone for HH because A24 had a problem and she doesn't own this IP anymore but they still kept her.
I‘ve seen a comment somewhere else saying „This show feels like someone‘s excuse to show off their deviant art characters.“ and I think that‘s a perfect encapsulation of one of the show‘s main flaws, which you perfectly examined in this video. As a writer and character designer myself, I deeply empathize with the need to show off all your babies to the world. But the way things appear in this show are extremely reminiscent of every young, amateur writer‘s impulse: Introducing characters solely for the sake of introducing them, because you love them and have a lot of ideas of cool moments for them, but after a while being unable to actually give your character a narrative purpose to exist beyond their cool moments. A very understandable impulse, but definitely something a professional writer should be able to control.
I‘m also really glad you pointed out how criminally anticlimactic Charlie‘s role in the show and especially in the final battle was. And how Lucifer‘s presence, while endearing and fun to watch, was ultimately to the detriment of Charlie and the entire show.
Yeah, as another writer, I also though this show seemed to really suffer from not learning the expression 'kill your darlings'. This is even more true of a show with a limited time frame. If a character is not actively and currently contributing to the story or if another character already introduced could fill that role, don't add another character to the cast. I don't care how much you love their design or their deep backstory. You are supposedly trying to make a professional story with a cohesive narrative, not an art book for your OCs.
Hazbin Hotel felt like a gacha life music video at times
oh my god…
*angels don't fly begins to play in the distance*
The first thing that came to mind when you said that was whatever it takes lol
@@vflowersimp *devils don't fly
If heaven's forever then hell must be a lie!
The ending of season 8, when everyone rebuilt the ruined hotel, felt like the whole series ended, not just season 1 💀
@snowfall3528 Joyful apartment
Of all Season 1's I've seen including Code Lyoko's which was the first show I got into growing up, this Season 1 is at the very bottom, not with likes of Cailuo but it feels close to that with how unappealing & juvenile it is, just with a adult show look & coat of paint on it.
I felt that way too. It had everybody there like it’s been running for 10 years
@@artistanthony1007This show is what happens if Simpsons Season 1 immediately did Season 5 or 6-7 right out of the gate.
EXACTLY! Plus, after the unnecessary war with heaven and the slaughtering of Adam, the show destroyed its own plot, and made it completely pointless. Why would Charlie and the gang ever want to continue building a hotel to redeem sinners after going to war with heaven, not getting their backing, and killing off the first man (a not so subtle message about taking down the patriarchy). Charlie could not get Heaven's backing in the sixth episode, so why and how could she get it now? She can't. It's impossible now. They are all war criminals and Heaven's greatest enemies now. They deserve nothing but punishment now.
Plus, despite her wishes to redeem sinners, she can't do it by default of being the devil's daughter. Redemption only comes from God (who is bizarrely absent from the show altogether). No other way is possible. Makes me feel sorry for her in that way.
I'm not kidding when I say that I've read fan fictions that gave better plots and characterizations of this show than the actual show itself.
Nothing about this show makes any sense, and the show is completely pointless now. I know that a season 2-4 is in production, but there's no point to it. The season 1 finale played out like a series finale, and now it's a dead show.
I love how brutally honest yet constructive this video is. Breath of fresh air
th-cam.com/video/CZRz5cCt8Cs/w-d-xo.htmlsi=5hbzhF-M8yzqnTBV
Same, this is legitimately my favourite hazbin hotel critique ever
@@underoakss th-cam.com/video/CZRz5cCt8Cs/w-d-xo.htmlsi=nF0yjm6XjE8zWXsK
17:19 you hit the nail on the head with this one.
Vivienne's a great character designer and creator, but she cannot write. She also can't take criticism very well, so I doubt many of the flaws in the writing from the first season will. be solved in the second season, unfortunately.
this^^
i disagree about her being a good character designer, all the characters are so overdetailed that they look like a pain to animate, and they all have the same stick body type 90% of the time
@@sillycritterikr they’re all ugly ://
i agree with the criticism portion. She takes every account of constructive criticism as a life threatening attack. She can make the characters, but she needs to stop focusing mainly on the writing and pitch ideas. You can't jam-pack every single hot idea you have into 8, 20 minute episodes.
@@sillycritteragreed. While a lot of the characters are iconic and have interesting designs, its just the same more or less. If you name as many characters as you can that are wearing a suit and bow tie, youll end up with most of the main characters on the show. Dont get me wrong, i think suits and bow ties are cool, but at that point theres not much originality if EVERYONE are wearing them. Most of the character designs have the same design tropes. Suits, bow ties, literally stick figure.
This is why its important to have unique and appealing character designs. Designs can show off a characters personality. If all the designs have the same tropes, its not going to help show off their personality.
For a female-led show:
- Adam's extermination sets up the purpose of the Happy Hotel
- Alastor's influence turns it into the famous Hazbin Hotel that officially starts the series off
- Angel Dust and Sir Pentious are the hotel's first tenants and their actions are the main criteria of which Charlie can use to judge the success of her plan
- Vox brought Sir Pentious to the hotel
- Valentino and Angel Dust is an entire different subplot which is used by the end as proof for Charlie to say Angel Dust "sticking it to the man" is why the hotel is working and demons can be redeemed
- Alastor provides Charlie with the information on angels' weaknesses which was achieved through the Egg Bois (while Vaggie did send Alastor in the first place, that was only because of Sir Pentious bringing the Bois which only happened cos of Vox sending him there)
- Vaggie's name was chosen by Adam, named after his favourite pastime
- Velvette was sent to the meaning on Vox's behalf
- Lucifer saved Charlie and provided her with the means to talk to heaven
- Ep2 was overshadowed by Alastor vs Vox
-Ep5 was overshadowed by Alastor vs Lucifer and Mimzy only came cos of her relation to Alastor
- Alastor brought Nifty
- St Peter introduces viewers to Heaven
- Alastor brought Charlie to CannibalTown
EDIT: oh and season 2 will focus more on Alastor and his backstory
This was mostly male led
Sad
Alastor literally is like the second most important character here
If you notice many in the HH fandom prefer the male characters over the female characters and I don't blame them, these characters are loved by the public because of the way they were written and that says a lot about how the female characters were written. Why do women fail too much at writing women and making female shows? It's disappointing
That's because Viv has to fight between her feminist ideas and her fujoshi fetishes.
@@OhHeckNono wuts fujoshi
Imagine that they tried to use the excuse that the trauma of getting attacked like that by her fellow angels caused Vaggie to block the details of that memory from her mind 💀
Knowing Viz probably ☠️
@@CosmoCandyyy 💀💀💀
Most stupid plothole I've ever seen. 🙄
It’s like then, does Vaggie not give a shit about the yearly extermination going on in front of her face????
Viv’s issue with introducing so many characters is that she writes them in the show with the full weight of their backstories and personalities presented that *she* knows perfectly, but forgets to let the audience in on any of it because these characters have lived in her brain for years. That’s a mistake beginning writers make, not of someone who’s been producing animated stories for as long as she has. Also no, don’t make the argument that “oh it’s ok because Viv explains character lore in her livestreams” I’m sorry I should not have to do homework to be invested in the characters I’m watching, that’s the job of the writers to present it to me in the show, else this all just comes across as a very expensive visual fanfic of her OC’s instead of a coherent narrative to any uninitiated.
You're probably right. I remember her response to criticism that Millie isn't fleshed out enough was "You don't know Millie like I do". Apparently, she didn't consider that if the audience doesn't know the character, that's the fault of the writer.
this is one think many people critizicing her tend to overlook: Hazbin Hotel is such a poorly written cartoon because it's basically showcasing all her 'super awesome ideas, theories and characters' without actually giving us a _coherent story_ , by far the most important part of writing.
She writes characters who are very similar to each other, I have same fault with mine but I'm not a professional writer.
For example, Valentino, ma mo and adam are the same.
Literally she said Adam should rapresents toxic manhood, well she have already Valentino. How she write Adam could be anybody because she ignored all his background. Adam could be easily an angel name Steve and would change. she just read about lilith "oh lilith left him because he was loser" and ignoring all horrible things she did. She cannot write well subversion, for example subversive Adam, would yes the father of humanity who lost hope for it, so for him project of Charlie is irrealistic(Charlie didn't have prove), don't trust Charlie because he reminds horrible things lilith did. So not super Saint but old tired and full hate man. Like in madoka magica magical girl are child soldiers.
Or epic the musical circe who evil sorcess sex drive, now motherly ruthless femme fatale who protect her people. But when she is showed honest intentions she helps.
yeah, and even as an older fan, I agree. I've watched the livestreams, seen Addict, read the 2 prequel comics on Angel and Alastor, read some of Zoophobia, and am aware of the Hazbin characters originally being an arc in Zoophobia. But do not expect most viewers, especially the newer fans coming in after watching the show, to know all of this information from what, years ago, a lot of which isn't even canon in the present day. All the crucial information should primarily be in the show, not in supplementary material. We shouldn't be theorizing about even the most basic holes and flaws in these characters and the plot. no Viv, your audience does not have access to your brain or all your planning and background character info in your sketchbooks.
@@SifyaAdam seems to rep part of the toxicity in Heaven. The bad in the good and the hypocrisy.
Val I think is gonna show that not everybody can be redeemed.
Mammon is there to be the evil sin since most aren’t as evil. Plus greed is considered the worst sin as it consists of all other sins as well.
And how are you gonna assume things abt Lilith when we didn’t see her yet. Maybe Viv is showing one side of the story now but reveals the other with Lilith. But you don’t know. So you can’t js use evidence that has the consistency of wet concrete.
Isn’t it weird how all the female characters/ relationships are one note and boring whilst the male characters/relationships are fleshed out, and interesting….. just saying
You can tell who viv favorites
You can tell Vivzie is a big pick-me fujoshi who doesn't care about female characters besides their design
And what's wrong with that, you can't have anything in Life.
@@livioghelminighezzi5579 I feel like having equal depth to both your female and male characters isn’t a “Oh well maybe next time” Sort of thing
Vivziepop doesn't know how to write a female character
I firmly believe that even the most mediocre of media can be saved by a killer soundtrack and can convince everyone it’s far more emotionally articulate than it actually is. That’s literally a major reason Frozen was so successful.
Distinctive visuals help as well.
Disagree to some extent. The Airbender movie has a gorgeous soundtrack yet its hated by everyone
@@theboiclobbopus2342 if you're talking abt atla's movie then tbf that's because the movie had a lot of issues that a soundtrack could not cover esp when compared to the original animated series
This show was for the most part redeemed to the public perception by having an AMAZING soundtrack and cast. I don't hate it by any means but it did it a huuuuge favor. Also my Spotify Wrapped had never looked worse! 😂
Another example is sonic games. Boy are those games mid but the soundtracks always bang.
The thing is, I get that Vivzie and everyone else involved wanted to include as much as possible in fear of maybe only getting this one season. But.. am I missing something here? She has a whole ass second independent show on youtube in the same universe and a massive and dedicated following. Even if they hadnt gotten more than season 1, it's not like she has no platform she could use to continue putting out the content she didnt get around to include, even if she has to do it in a slightly altered way?
Or make another show, webcomic or potcast with the unused characters and stories ect and let people know that these are unused concepts from Hazbin Hotel. People would eat that up for years. Now with the show having aired and having a dedicated fandom for YEARS, fuck, you cant tell me no comic book publisher for example would ever want to work with you for a spin off?
Seriously, its not like this show is truly the one and only chance she had to make any of her work known. Am I missing something? If Helluva Boss can be uploaded on god damn TH-cam for free then why is everyone acting like these 8 episodes were all she got? What on earth was she even rushing for?
👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾 Exactly and thing is, her and the team knew they were getting a second season. That's why after season 1 aired and a couple of days later it was announced season 2 was already being in the works. So, that excuse of "well they didn't know" is null and void
Thank you! I’ve been thinking about this for ages especially since YT is more widespread than a paywalled streaming service. HB episodes get millions of views, her merch sells out on the regular, and she’s been in the cultural zeitgeist for years already. Unless there’s some technical industry benefits I’m not understanding from the Prime deal what did it do for her other than give her her (more expensive) dream cast and give her an episode limit she couldn’t work within.
And still, the money going into the new VA cast could’ve gone to better animation because “Out for Love” was an awful watch. The characters feel so off model a lot of the time in the show but that was the biggest standouts to me.
What could possibly have been worth it? I don’t get it.
@@muwuriel8231they animated it like a mainstream low budget show
i was dissapointed :-;
That’s a really good point
YOU KNOW WHAT.....this IS a good point.
Like, she still has TH-cam, like just put the missing episodes, filler, or whatever the heck she didn't get to do on TH-cam.
I do remember her saying that Hazbin Hotel was the one she WANTED to actually get picked up officially, though.
0:04 ah yes my favorite show NIBZAH LETOH
Truley a spectacle
reject hazbin hotel, resort to nibzah letoh 🔥
And its sister show
"AVULLEH SSOB"
honestly yeah, i found it quite underwhelming that after 4 years in development hell, the 1st season ends with only 8 episodes that sped by in just a matter of 3 weeks. i thought the show was fine, but by no means was it amazing and i don't really think it lived up to the hype.
“It didn’t live up to the hype” is an inherently nothing argument, you would’ve contributed much more to the discourse by not commenting at all
Bad faith...
@@FloofMother rude
@@thecrakp0t I’m smocking wheed and eating soupppppp
@@FloofMother now that you amassed 42 comments on this video at the very very least you watched it right? RIGHT?
its very telling how the main ship of the show, charlie x vaggie, has infinitely less chemistry than husk x angel dust
Makes sense because those two girls weren't even meant to be a couple in the first place when developing the original pilot. They just come off as sisters or best friends.
Yeah and here i was hoping for female characters to finally have more relevance but nah vivz cant write in general and even less for female characters
Hazbin Hotel imo really didn't need more episodes, what it did need was *filler* episodes, episodes to build on characters and relationships
Season 1 went waaaay too fast for the plot, the audience can't get a break while watching it and having filler could've easily broken up the season into easier digestible chunks of the story and character development
The thing is, you never know when (as a show runner) your show’s plug can be pulled, so i understand why they didn’t want “filler” episodes in A season that’s 8 episodes.
@Galacticstarsofthegalaxy Hazbin Hotel is a cesspool of potential that Amazon obviously saw, so I don't know why they'd even consider canceling it this early when they haven't even gotten started.
@@ConcealedWeaponry that’s fair
To be fair Netflix also canceled oddballs another show created by a TH-camr that only ran for two seasons despite it being immensely popular on Netflix
@@LondonS-od6eyThat show was still able to make 20 episodes in total. Netflix probably cancelled it because it wasn't getting as popular as they wanted it to be and there are other projects they can work on that they think could do better, plus, Amazon probably doesn't get as much people coming to them to make a show, so I doubt Amazon has many show and film projects to fund, unlike Netflix which is more popular as a streaming service.
This trainwreck had 10 writters.
*TEN.*
Having more writers than you have episodes is dumb.
@@Corrector1 yeah, it is. A recipe for disaster.
Too many cooks in the kitchen type stuff
That’s actually so embarrassing how it has 10 writers for 8 episodes 💀💀
@@bread5384 it is, is absolutelly is, my fellow almighty loaf.
As much as I enjoyed hazbin hotel especially the songs. The show was overall rushed, felt hollow, too many characters, and lots of telling instead of showing. Like I felt nothing for most of characters and their relationships. I swear the guys in the show managed to get more interesting plot points than the girls in general 😭.
Lucifer and Charlie relationship, it felt lackluster and of course their family drama ended fast. I definitely disappointed in that.
If making a show could be compared to preparing a dish, for example:
Adventure Time = Barbacoa
ATLA = Stew
Phineas and Ferb = Fruit Salad
(Don't look too deep into it, it's just a quick comparison)
Then Hazbin Hotel would be nothing more but a pile of sugar. Does it taste sweet? Yeah
Does the sugar rush hit instantly? Yes
But at the same time, it's lazy. So lazy in fact that it becomes worse once you remember this isn't a web show anymore, but an official streaming show. Therefore, it MUST be judged and criticize like any other professional show
I love this comparison AND this comment. Comparing Hazbin Hotel to nothing more than a pile of sugar and maybe some salt for the salty taste you get in your mouth after watching and acknowledging how much of a rushed shit-pile this show ended up being (On a large STREAMING PLATFORM that requires you to pay for it no less), you end up realizing that it's just not as good as other shows. It's just a webtoon comic made by an edgy 16 year old in the end. It really disappointed me.
ATLA seasons are kinda like this. Book 1 gathers all the ingredients, Book 2 mixes them all together and let's em cook everything it has built too.... And Book 3 seasons off with the final touches and let's us feast on the delicious stew we have been cooking dur8ng the show.
@@RoachesInMyWalls Yeah... Hazbin/Helluva Boss has a lot of unique character designs, but the shows have their big flaws. I think both shows have the most swearing I've ever seen in any kind of media 😂😂... Though it does work in some instances for Charlie... and I loved Lucifer saying you messed with my daughter and now I'm going to fuck you.... Buth Helluva is able to use this better with its comedy and stuff. I really enjoy Helluva Boss more because it's not tied to any big company so it's able to be it's own thing... even if that thing has big writing flaws for some episodes. It at least is able to blend comedy and stuff better. I just hope th8ngs can get better
I'm hungry now and also want to rewatch all these good shows 😭
May I ask what dish you think Gravity Falls would be? I like your comparisons a lot lol
No dentist is gonna fix that
Can we please talk more about how Viv had Angel Dust (an SA survivor) confront his abuser while also making a joke about Sir Pentious getting gang-graped (remove the g) in the same FIVE MINUTES?
And this was after Viv herself spoke over and blew off an SA survivor on Twitter, who didn't like the Poison song and its portrayal, as well as did not like how one of the members who worked on the song being an SA fetishist.
I mean, how tone deaf can you get?
I also disagree about how she's good at character design. You'd need look no further about how bad Viv is at character designing than Camilla, who many are theorizing to secretly be an angel as well because she looks so similar to Vaggie. I don't disagree with them about how the two look so very similar.
The cast also share very similar color palette, which makes them all look the same and blend into the also black and red background. And before anyone goes "But they're in Hell!" black and red are not, and should not, be the only colors in your setting/characters, even if it is in Hell. Gold, grey, violet, deep green, etc. Viv had options. She also could've had characters have a more substantial color variety, while sprinkling in black/red to create that same unity whilst keeping the characters unique.
It'd also give characters more symbolic story-telling, certain color choices reflecting their personalities (Charlie having more pink and yellow to represent her bubbly personality, Vaggie with more gold and white to hint at her angel origins, Lucifer with blues and blacks to represent his depressed mental state, etc.). Imagine how cool it would've been if Lucifer and Adam had very similar colors, but inversed to represent their different ideologies despite the fact that they were both created by God?
Ok on the Adam and Lucifer thing I think Adam was such a wasted potential. Imagine the rage boiling under the surface from Lucifer stealing his paradise, both his wives, ruined his childrens (humanity) futures and corrupting them into commiting unspeakable horrors against each other,
AND NOW he's being denied his fatherly duty to punish his children for the harm they've brought to their siblings.
Adam would have benefited from being more silent and mysterious rather than a douchebag, imagine Adam being one of the final bosses instead of a season one boss.
@@Jane-ow7srAgreed, even if I’m on Lilith’s side ‘cause Adam expected her to submit to him. That could’ve even add to his character, since he believes his authority comes directly from God themselves.
@@Jane-ow7srAdam being a loud cocky dick make sense at least to me. Roo the root of evil is better fit for final boss
@e92312Why exactly? What do you have to do with it that made you so upset
@coolu Because it's straight up uncomfortable to watch, SA is a terrible thing to happen to anyone, but we don't need to see it happen, especially in a fucking song.
Also I never saw the appeal of Emily x Charlie. Ship what you want of course but they almost have the same personality so the chemistry wouldn’t be interesting imo. If you were told me they were long lost sisters I’d believe you
i guess what they meant is the fact Vaggie and Charlie have no chemistry which I agree with. I think they both don't look together ngl. but I think Charlie's too.... kiddish to even be in a relationship and well veggie... I just don't like her at all. she's boring I forgot about her and I thought Vaggie and Charlie were sisters or friends.
No wonder news said they were friends... interesting... @@TerraCottaCake1
I think Emily and Charlie would be more interesting than Charlie and Veggie, but i see your point
Where do you get ships from? Like one interaction doesn't equal romance y'all just reaching at this point
@@hoifzf ever heard of "love at first sight"
lol
I'm almost mad you pitch the idea of Charlie and Alastor together being the ones to fight and defeat Adam at the end because that would've been _so much more interesting._
We have some decent evidence that Charlie has this weird pseudo-trust in Alastor; he's safe enough that he can be around and get things done for them whenever she needs him to be but there's no reason to suspect he actually cares about them, especially if the chips are down. It would then be an interesting surprise when, if Charlie insists on trying to fight Adam herself because of how awful he's been to her specifically the entire season, Alastor then steps up to say that he'll be right beside her for it. There's also reason to at least suspect that his deal is with her mom, and that protecting Charlie and possibly the hotel itself is one of the conditions, so using that moment to communicate even a bit more as to whether that theory is true or not would've also set up some tidbits to lead into the next season.
It would've been so fascinating to see the two of them trying to work together under the stress of battle, testing Charlie as to whether or not she can trust Alastor to have her back, and Alastor having to work harder to accomodate fighting with another person and not just think about himself in the moment whether he likes to or not.
Lucifer's swooping in to rescue so early in the show definitely nerfs *so much tension* for literally any other encounter that's going to come in any other seasons. Why should we ever fear for the safety of our core cast ever again when we already know the most powerful being in Hell is just one phone call away from saving them from all but literally the most dangerous entities that could exist in this world? Anime pulls this shit all the time and it blows so much wind out of the sails of all the stakes you can have in a story where lives are on the line, and the only way to reign it back in is to start including weird limitations on how much the overpowered person can interfere.
Charlie and Alastor fighting Adam together would have been so much better.
The only reason why charlie has "daddy issues" is because her dad wouldnt call her at all for like 7 years meanwhile she never made any effort to call him either? I'm pretty sure its mentioned she'd only call him sometimes but barely ever.
It's the opposite. Lucifer sometimes calls her but she never calls him
@@myrla9745 self inflicted daddy issues
@@WeevilWrangler isnt daddy issues ig u could call it daughter issues
100% agree on Carmilla being a parasite. She doesn't even look or act that cool or fun like Vivzie's other OCs. Vaggie being the one to kill the angel would probably be the best candidate, and it would add even more tension between her and Charlie. If they're insistient on making Carmilla a major character she should have taken part in the final battle and died, which would make the Vees line about "masterless cattle" make sense if an overlord was killed.
I disagree I thought she was plenty cool. I don't think she needed to die, though I understand the impetus in the argument that "Carmilla was a parasite," in that she was a further example of the show introducing a high cast of characters and not doing much to flesh them out.
Imagine if Vaggie hid that the angels could die by angelic weapons deliberately because she's a complex character that still feels connection to her ingrained Heaven beliefs AND even doesn't necessarily want to kill her own kind that she trained and celebrated new years with for centuries and she actually had a motivation that put her in conflict with her own love interest in an interesting way while simultaneously fixing the problem that no sinner ever tried to kill angels because it requires some harder to achieve secret that only Vaggie knew being a 1 in a million fallen exorcist, seeing how that clearly rarely happens...
Thus, making Lute semi-responsible for the failure of the exorcist/death of adam for recklessly casting out a fellow exorcist for jealousy based reasons, a karma-like outcome that inevitably came to punish her when Vaggie chooses to show Hell how to kill angels, while also showing the nuance that not all exorcists are evil ( through Vaggie's general attachment to the other exorcists that aren't Lute ) and its tragic that anyone is killing anyone, highlighting Charlie's desire for a pacifist solution through her love interest's unique perspective that she can offer her as a nuanced supporting character.
If only they thought of anything that deeply lmao
@@abc.6223But then Viv couldn't add her 5,000th "sad boi" OC that has daddy issues.
Okay maybe that's more Helluva Boss, but still, she refuses to develop her existing female characters and instead wants to show off her new shiny ocs.
WTF
@@haveagoodday7021 Tbf it's ironic when you guys complain under a thread about Carmilla a female character she actually developed and got depth and now you people act like her exisiting and being given a large role is a issue lmao when she is actually a complex character.
Another point I don’t understand is why in the original pilot Charlie says near the end of the episode when she’s on the phone with her mom “I’m starting to think dad was right about me” like I didn’t really think he was gonna be as loving and supportive of her as he turned out to be. So, if their issues were resolved in one episode….Why would she even want the hotel anymore? Lmao
I'm an idiot but I like to write so this is how I would've done it.
Lucifer would've been an ass. Simple. He cares about Charlie, that's his daughter and his heir (but it's more like Stolas and Octavia, precautionary.) But hes gotten so bitter and twisted because he got kicked out of heaven, sent to the pit of darkness he felt guilty fpr his wife left him, took his daughter and he's been alone for so long. I would've lengthened it out. I would've made it so he has some reflection, like memories of him Lilith and Charlie (maybe a littl4 music box type thing) and tried to make people sympathise with his character and flesh him out. He's the devil, he's the most hated being, I would've made all the sinners hate him for the purgatory he sent them to. And that would eat at someone. Basically, I'd have scrapped what Viv made and just.. tried to work with the time I had.
@@KrookedKlown-kl5tkHonestly, they could have kept his personality and made him basically an accidental asshole. They hinted at it when Lucifer and Charlie were on the balcony. Him trying so hard to protect her, and him just being so awkward from being alone for so long, could cause conflict because he says stuff and does stuff he shouldn't in an earnest attempt to help, but also keep her safe.
THAT would have been interesting.
It's just rushed writing, man. Which makes it even worse because the pilot is Canon to the show.
I just wanted to say them killing Adam goes against everything this show stood for. Forgiveness. Charlie is willing to forgive everyone but Adam. That’s because everything IS black and white, the protagonist are always forgiven and antagonist are never forgiven
Uh, actually, Charlie did sorta save him. She convinced Lucifer not to kill him. It was Niffty who killed him.
@e92312 still tough, what this guy said is wrong.
Maybe because she was defending herself 😂
Maybe because she was defending herself 😂
she didnt kill adam wtf are you talking about lol
The twist with the vaggie he was sloppily written and outside of a small detail heaven is under developed.
I know right.
It's weird no one has any idea what gets someone into heaven.
The circles of hell are named after the 7 deadly sins, so you'd think angels would just assume you get in heaven if you don't sin too much.
Hence why Hell residents are called Sinners. 🤨🤔
@@gerbera3696 The small detail I mentioned that everyone talks to each other because hierarchy doesn’t matter and if they don’t like Adam then why don’t they just cast
Him out of Heaven and this is the same heaven support Science .?
@@gerbera3696that IS part of the mystery.
@@gerbera3696 u dont need to know why they were in hell or what they did in hell, just that they arae changing and being better, thats like the whole point of this show
@@gerbera3696 i guess, but i think them not saying what was done was on purpose a lot of stuff was confirmed by vivzie but that stuff is prob out of date. I genuinly think they want the message to be don’t matter ur past u can change in the future and thats why they didnt show the past sins
Charlie forgets that hell is meant for the irredeemable. Had this taken place in purgatory, it would've made more sense, as purgatory is meant for the redeemable.
That or pure evil is in a ring lower than them. One of my headcanon is that only 7 rings of hell are mentioned in the series. In Dante's Inferno there are 9. The sinners in Hazbin Hotel are imprisoned in the ring of pride, the deepest of all.
For me, the sinners we see are not irredeemable, because they manage to keep a society afloat. and that the real monsters are in the ring of betrayal. While in Purgatory souls wait to be collected to go to heaven, something that will not happen because the angels chose the path of ignorance.
Or i think in other words limbo
Well I mean Purgatory or Limbo doesn't exist here which is why the main conflict with Heaven exists.
Viv could've just made Heaven so strict to the point where even the smallest mistakes or grey areas can make you go to Hell, then there would've been ACTUAL innocent souls in Hell, and Charlie ACTUALLY rehabs the sinners like real rehab so it explains what they do off screen.
@@_ThoughtlessHour_ Oh yes, I also feel like if that were true, the innocents that got influenced by the proper sinners would be an argument for Adam to keep em out cuz like "Oh if theyre actually good why are they X and Y" instead of just
"Idk the rules HHH"
All the projects feel more like a merchandising advertisement than a show, or a loose template for fans to make up stuff for rather than actual canon content to follow. And, of course, the humor was insufferable.
Bro the fact you simplified the show like that proves you have no point y'all just want something to complain about honestly most of you shouldn't be critics because it sounds like a you problem
@@hoifzf and the fact that you got so pissy out of a simple (and true) critique proves that Viv and her fans can't handle even the mildest bit of criticism because you all think anyone who disagrees with you and doesn't think Vivziepop's works are indie animation's holy grails are haters
@@felixsfreckles6822 so if I call you out I'm being pissy I'm sorry but don't get things confused just because I blatantly disagree with your OPINION which isn't a good one to ME doesn't mean I can't take criticism once again you generalized you should stop doing that it kinda invalidates the take you have I disagree with you end of story
Seeing how they always bring out new merch for the shows whenever a occassion like christmas, halloween etc. happens, you are probably right
@@hoifzf Holy shit, format your comment. Reads like a toddler on a sugar rush.
I think if it were me, I would've cut Vox and Velvette out of season 1 and have Valentino be the only vee present with small tease of the other 2 like photos to build them up as future antagonists also cut Mimsy from Dad Beat Dad so it can focus more on Charlie and Lucifer's relationship, have Carmilla,Zestial, and Rosie participate in defending the hotel from the exterminators (especially with Carmilla's actions being the reason why the extermination was changed to 6 months) , and show more prominence to Keekee as she felt like she was just there despite being teased to be the sorta embodiment of the hotel.
Absolutely! Like I'm not saying have them not exist, but giving us everyone at once isn't great either
The whole point of Mimzy was for Charlie to tell her dad;
"This guy supports me, and I barely know him. Why can't you?"
And maybe show growth in Alastor? It's subtle, but I think Viv was trying to hint at a change.
Which, honestly, could have been done with anyone else in the current cast. Maybe Nifty getting in trouble with sharks with her absentmindedness, or telling them information of a powerful something in the hotel they want to steal and hold for ransom.
And Nifty leads them there without thinking. Maybe they convince her they wanna be redeemed and Nifty basically wants to have Charlie and Alastor proud of her so she goes with it.
It prompts Alastor to have to defend the hotel, and we still get that scene with Charlie and Lucifer.
And Alastor scolding Nifty in a similar way to Mimzy.
i love lucifers character and more than anything is my favorite song in the ost. but charlies "daddy issues" were literally nonexistent. lucifer has his own mental struggles, thats not daddy issues
the daddy has issues
I heard that Amazon Prime was the main reason for the lack of episodes and fast pacing; they were strict or something
I learned that the information I heard was wrong; thank you to the people who informed me
I heard they actually could of had 10-12 but Viv blew the budget on VAs
Nah, Viv always struggles with pacing. Just look at Helluva Boss and Zoophobia.
She’s great at introductions and conclusions, but everything in between is always an undercooked mess. Her visuals are pretty much the only thing that save her.
Yeah
there are shows that have less eps then her (over the garden wall) that tell a better and coherent show. Viv is just bad at story telling, she always was. Look at zoophobia and helluva boss she keeps switching between episodic story telling or comedy: She also changed stuff on a whim because she wants so even if it doesn't make much sense, she was always Broadway stars first story last. On top amazon has nothing to do with it, they just have it on their platform, they were still struggling to find a platform to stream it when they finished the season. So yeah for once i say its not amazon doing but entirely hers for blowing the budget
@@Birdyboys So it was the budget then. LOL.
Whenever you mentioned how Lucifer's appearance and power undermines the idea of the hotel and the conflict regarding the exterminations, I couldn't help but think about how Discord was removed from the MLP movie for that same reason
I can't stop laughing like even removing discort. The other princesses were still there. those pleading alicorns who stand still waiting for Tempest to throw the ball to them.
Yeah, it did remind me of that as a former brony.
I will never forgive they not remaking the pilot and just starting the story.
I talked to people that didn't know the whole youtube pilot story, and Medranno's story. They were confused with the beginning
Many liked it. But mostly thought the writing was lacking at best
Also also, why every character conflict and development, involves daddy issues? Medranno, cant you make different characters conflict
ALSO ALSO ALSO! Nothing convinces me they didnt know they wouldn't have a second season. That is the worse lie i heard
The show came out and they were already recording for season 2. They already had everything written out. The writing team is just incompetent at their job!
Because the author (viz) has daddy issues
@@JohnGrandlinejust proves how incompetent as a writer she is then
I believe that there was intention for Valentino to be the way he is. In the eyes of the viewer, we see that Valentino is this child man-baby who throws fits and can be dangerous. But in Angel Dust's eyes, he is *only* dangerous, he is terrifying and will hurt him more. In Vox's eyes, an equal, Valentino is a bitch-man who can't keep a lid on his anger. As the viewer, we see all of these points of views, but they are not directed correctly, and we, as the viewer, did not know and was not told that the perspective was changing. 3rd person can be difficult, especially in omni, but good Lucifer himself... There are ways to do it; Vivize could not find any of them.
Valentino is a scary character. People like him really do exist in this world, but Vivzie did not get that across properly. Such a shame. He really is such a good character too.
Well said, although personally Valentino's comedic moments didn't undermine his character for me, because I could see that Vox can deal with him as a more-or-less equal and his employees can't.
Honestly Valentino is the only character that actually feels dangerous despite him being a minor villain. I have rarely seen a character that evoke such disgust and hatred in a fandom, I think out of all the characters that are abusers in Hazbin Hotel and Helluva Boss he is the one that works the best. The only thing that bother me is what you mentionned, I don't think it undermine his character that much because he still feels like a threat but it can be confusing to the audience about how we are supposed to feel towards him. I hope season two will handle it better
@@llice1681 Hopefully! Season 2 better slap or we're gonna have another promised neverland situation on our hands :((
This show should have stayed on youtube so vivzie could have far more control. Seriously who gave this woman 8 episodes.
They could have done 12-16 episodes in the time it took to release it from the pilot of it stayed on TH-cam
She had full control over Helluva Boss and that shows writing is a mess too
From what I heard, they could have had 8-12, but she blew the budget on voice actors.
Also, Catlevania told a great story with 4 episodes in its first season, Infinity Train with 10 episodes but half the runtime.
The problem isn't Viv having little control, it's that she had too much control and by her own admission, can't write.
@@RavenStarMediaOmg, I love Castlevania and Inifite Train so much, the storyline of Infinite Train was perfect and I’m still mad to this day it was cancelled 😭
@@RavenStarMediaTo her, she can write and doesn't care, let time get her when her writing is known by much better writers and they decide to look more into her online, you don't want to mess with or upset people who have a bigger reputation, more important circles and more money.
I like how a piano version of poison plays when he talks about Angel Dust
My issue with Carmilla is that her existence is a lie. You mean to tell me that Vaggie had her eye and wings torn out and she still thinks that angels are immortal? I don’t know how the writers made such a glaring oversight.
Also, they neutered Charlie’s character. In the pilot, she was this bubbly and optimistic princess that always sees the best in others. In public. In private? She’s insecure and scared that she doesn’t know what she’s doing and that her father will never approve of her. What do we have in the series proper? She’s still naively optimistic with no other side of her character until she learns that Vaggie didn’t let her know she was an exorcist. And that get resolved by the end of the episode. Heck, we don’t see that insecurity over her dad’s approval aside from being annoyed that he forgot about what she was doing. The only other instance is Husk making a “daddy issues” joke. While Lucifer’s character flaws are easily written off as him expressing classic depressive symptoms, Charlie’s personality when interacting with him are completely out of left field. And them immediately mending their relationship is just… Nope. This show was waaay too rushed! They kiiind of hinted that maybe Lilith drove a wedge between the two. But with her being absent for 7 years, there shouldn’t have been that hurdle.
Overall, I wish this series was green lit for at least two season from the get go. I can forgive Helluva Boss for needing to cram more into each episode because animation is expensive and that’s a self-funded projected. They don’t have the luxury of a long and drawn out series (especially with months between episode releases). But Hazbin is funded by Amazon. The rushed pacing ruined the show and there was no excuse for it. They should have been given two seasons. Or at least twice as many episodes in one season. They didn’t have the time needed to give this story the depth it deserved.
I agree. Man they really could have had Vaggie conflicted with her mortality and basically try to convince herself that she didn't die, so she can't, but know in the back of her mind. It comes to reality when she faces Camilla.
She can, in fact, die, and she was lying to herself.
I don’t hate u for not putting Lucifer in season one in my opinion, I believe Lucifer should’ve been introduced more in season two to season three like previously stated by one of my comments, I don’t know I’m just kind of disappointed with where the show went. Had so much potential you know?
The foool only learns from his own mistakes, the wise learn from also others mistakes
@@JohnGrandline very true!
I think Charlie should have kicked Adam's ass in season one and then Arch Angel Michael should have fought Lucifer and then God could have stepped in and been like "okay boys, this is going WAY TOO FAR" or something lol.
@@purgejmi yeah it was definitely building towards it and then they kinda just let it go at the last moment
where to go with eight episodes
1
introduce hotel
maybe like a rewrite of the pilot but more official
bc without the context of the pilot ur left confused, (most shows rewrite the piltos for the first episode anyways)
2
introduce some subtle story telling whilst adding filler to one maaaaybe two characters if you have time
3
more filler, more subtle hints and forshadowing
4
small plot twist (like oh! no your dad DID care!)
mostly more filler for charlie
5
introduce the big bad character
make him more menacing than comedic
give him a bit of a lore introduced in the episode
6
more filler, some forshadowing for the big bad villains big bad plot
7-8
a two parter
charlie takes the lead
kills the big bad villain
they have some character adding
and at the end you add a teaser for her dad
a TEASER
he doesnt ACTUALLY appear
would this be good writing (i came up with it in the spurr of the moment)
The rewriting you did about merging the storyline of Allister helping Charlie form an army and Velvet already established plot point of wanting to fight back against the angels is genuinely really good writing. There’s so many videos of people doing "Fixes" of media but all they end up doing is writing a fan fiction to make the story appeal more to their liking.
Here, it just genuinely feels like what they should’ve done and I legit got surprised when I first heard it because it feels so obvious when pointed out. Kudos!
I genuinely want to know... wtf was Lucifer most of the battle against the hotel?? like he completely fucked off a majority of the fight and considering all he usually does is make ducks all day, what the ACTUAL HELL was he doing off screen???
Edit: i've never had so many likes on anything before wow-
Look i dont like the show either man but shit is not that serious
The deal Lucifer made with Heaven made it so he would let the exterminations happen, so long as no hellborns were harmed. When Adam started choking Charlie and physically harming her, the deal was broken and Lucifer was allowed to intervene.
@@minimaggiitI mean it kinda is considering his daughter and her friends were getting their asses kicked in so like wtf was he doing
@@MarchingBand3699 i mean it kinda isnt considering its a 4/10 show entirely
He couldn’t do anything when the exterminators were killing sinners he stepped in when they hurt his daughter, because that wasn’t part of the deal they made with having
As much as I do like Hazbin Hotel, I do agree that the convulted plots, too many characters, and rushed pacing detriments this show's vision to be something great as it is a fresh new idea for an adult animated series that is not just a Family Guy or Simpsons clone. I get we live in the time where seasons have short amounts of episodes, but you can still make a cohesive narrative with only 8 episodes. I'll be making a video in the future on discussing on how to fix Season 1 of Hazbin Hotel and how it can work within the limit amount of episodes it was given, but here's some bullet points.
-Have Episode 1 be a remake of the pilot in the new art style and voice cast, so it could introduce new viewers to the series if they didn't want the pilot episode on TH-cam.
-Let the 8 episodes revolve around our main characters and how they progressively grow bonds with each other as it focuses on the redeeming sinners plotline.
-Have the Vees be the main antagonists of Season 1 and have Adam, Lute, and the hypocrisy of Heaven be saved for Season 2.
-Have some episodes lean towards more slice of life through the main characters bonding through Charlie's exercises, so the development doesn't feel nonchalant.
-And have the Finale be a two parter where the Vees try and come up a plan to attack the hotel and have our main characters showcase how much they have grown throughout the season and how they've become a new found family with each other.
I like to stay optimistic about Hazbin Hotel despite it being a mess, so it's fine if you don't like it while I still do. My ideas for a Season 1 rewrite might not be everyone's cup of tea, but it would've worked for an 8 episode season for Hazbin Hotel in my opinion.
YES 🙌🏽
couldn’t agree more with the vees being the main antagonist for season one. just like in the very first episode where the vaggie was trying to make a better commercial for the hotel. they could’ve had the group work together and advertise the hotel but use vox for conflict seeing as how he is a literal tv and could’ve potentially stalled them from airing the commercial instead of 666 news interrupting them
I just don't understand why everyone has "daddy issues". I LIKED the show but for god's sake, charlie has daddy issues? come on? CHARLIE? like give us a break after everyone has daddy issues. it's a common trope in vivziepop's universe and i'm tired of it.
So basically, female characters are overshadowed again.
You didn't watch the show
@@hoifzf It’s a recurring thing that happens. I’m learning about the show through reviews and watching episodes with Saberspark because I don’t have Amazon Prime. Okay, first, the princess of hell is the second most powerful demon in the show and had her moment taken away from her by Lucifer coming in to save her from a moment she could have by herself. It’s insulting that the princess of hell loses to Adam, an extermination angel and not a higher up angel like a seraphim. It feels that she cannot fight for her own causes. She’s basically tossed aside. If Carmine can kill an extermination , why can’t Charlie?
extermination angel*
@@zed9256 bro what's with the double standard clearly Charlie hasn't fought a ton hell it's in her character to try every other option but fighting so it's obvious she probably wouldn't be super great plus what would be the point of dad beat dad if Lucifer didn't show up like your dismissing story for some fanfiction of what you think makes a character overshadowed she gets plenty of scenes maybe you should do some rewatching because your making 0 sense
@@hoifzf Ok, thank you for the explanation. When I meant overshadowing, I meant the fact that there are characters like Mimzy that are basically just loud and annoying, and Niffty that just is kind of murderous and the comic relief. The best episode by far are the one with Angel Dust and Valentino getting into the territory of sexual assault. Vox and Alastor getting tons of exposition. The only female characters that have some development are Lute and Charlie. And with Vaggie, she was just the protector figure. I hope the show expands upon her redemption as an ex-exterminator angel.
Not my analogy, but someone said that the Heaven/Hell war in Season 1 would be like The Weirdmageddon happening in Season 1 of Gravity Falls 😭
Everything regarding the angle weapons is easily the worst part of the show. Add onto everything you well articulated, Vaggie apparently had no clue an angles weapons could hurt them. You know, the same weapons that ripped her wings and her eye off. It could’ve been so easy to fix that, maybe Vaggie did keep that info from Charlie cause she was afraid. No Vivzy said, all characters are ironically like Adam described, black and white, good or bad.
Which would back up Charlie's feelings of doubt and distrust toward Vaggie. The reveal about being an angel would mean more than just charlies and vaggie's relationship; Vaggie would be withholding valuable information that actually affected other people: by hiding her knowledge about the weapons, she is preventing hell's citizens from protecting themselves.
The cast should've been cut down to more essential characters for an eight episode format. Here's my thoughts...
Charlie: She's our main character.
Angel: His arc should be given more time to pace out, and build up his friendship with Husker, and Charlie.
Husker: Should take Alastors role as chained up herald of a mysterious force. Learns to lighten up, and grows attach to the hotel.
Sir Pentious & Nifty: Perfect at what they do.
Velvette: Should be the full on embodiment of the Vee's. A modern day show stealer. Using the new age of social media to sew her influence. Contrasted with a hypothetical Overlord Huskers more old timey gentleman ways. Furthering a potential rivalry for abusing her star attraction Angel Dust. Acting as a secondary antagonist until the finale. Where she makes a alliance with the Hotel out of survival.
Adam: Stay as our main villain. Because he could be perfect. If you pull a twist with his constant swearing. Making him say stuff like "Oh my fudge, you dumb dog!". Making him still crude, but parodying the Vivisepop style of humor.
Lute, Sera, and Emily: Fine as they are.
Wut about Rosie?
@@carnage0685 Enjoyable, but she's completely superfluous story wise, and her character advice could be given to someone else.
@@scourgeanimations444 Given to or given BY someone else? If the latter, then who? I can't really see anyone else in the show giving someone relationship advice. Maybe Husk, I guess? But no one else.
@@carnage0685 Depends if Vaggie was kept around, but in this hypothetical scenario.
Carmine definitely is the one who could've been cut out or given a cameo through say a phone call then in S2, have her show up.
Unpopular opinion. They waste money oin the studio. Couldve did it on youtube. 8eps after years of work? Yeah Helluva has a better ratio
helluva also has a less perfected artsyle
@@pterodactyl662 still looks great though
@e92312 money.
@e92312 didn't stamper say the n Word that one time
@e92312 oh um uhh, sorry for not constructing a good comment
I hate that Hazbin Hotel will probably be the only indie animation to have religion in it
There could be others, you never know...
@@JHorst-r2u Religion in indie animation has so much potential
@@XavierVA24 I have an idea for a show about spirits based on my own interpretation of the afterlife.
@@JHorst-r2u That sounds epic, ngl
I mean K6BD animated could go hard
I'd actually argue that vivzie isn't that great at writing at all, but she's fantastic at writing concepts. Her writing is very everything or nothing. I mean look at all the "lore" she's dropped over time in live streams. She waaaaay overcomplicates the characters, not to mention how she gives character ethnicities and orientations that just aren't shown at all in the final product. Which is pretty f'ing to tone deaf for a queer creator.
It's such a shame cause there's so much potential. The characters like just on paper are very interesting, but my god most of them are so bland in the show. But I will say the voice actors did a great job, and most of them are Broadway actors so that makes sense
Vaggie was supposed to be El Salvadorian during the pilot era but now that she’s an angel, I assume that’s been nixed. It sucks because her being El Salvadorian was actually one of the reasons I was interested in the show simply because I’d never seen a character that was of that ethnicity and having her be a woc was what endeared her to me. But Vaggie has basically no character and is wasted potential in the actual show.
@@appletart7262Maybe she was before she died and became an Angel
I’m black and trust me, I am not tripping that there aren’t any black characters in this show, I watch for what it is. I got bills to pay and a real life 😂
Vaggie is just the Millie of Hazbin Hotel, a puddle deep character that can be described only as "a better character's partner"
4 years waiting for this...
this masterpiece
@@pterodactyl662this shitepile of rubbish and condom wrappers written with swears lad. That IS her humor instead of actually mature humor with proper jokes of any. This was not it lad.
Lmao!!!
Hey, I was just glad it came out at all.
@@pterodactyl662 a dumpster fire.
"Hi. I'm Vivziepop. Welcome to Hazbin Hotel. After 4 years in development, hopefully, it will have been worth the weight."
VALVE REFERENCE SPOTTED 🫵
I agree with most if not all of the changes you would have made, especially making Emily Charlie's love interest. However, I wouldn't write out Vaggie from the show. Instead, I would have Vaggie's defection/basement from the Exorcists happen much earlier in the timeline with her being found by a much younger Charlie. Lucifer would then essentially adopt Vaggie due to him realizing she's an angel and empathizing with her, but not telling Charlie she's an angel. This would make Vaggie take on an older sister role for Charlie due to her gratefulness for being rescued and would match how she mostly seems to act in the show, an overprotective sister rather than a lover/significant other. You could even have Vaggie be the one to secretly kill the angel to protect Carmilla and her daughters due to seeing their love for each other. This would give Vaggie a more personal connection to Carmilla who would keep her secret out of thankfulness and agree to give them angel weapons to defend themselves, but only enough for the hotel residence because as stated in Helluva Boss angel weapons are rare. Also, I wouldn't make the Exorcists such pushovers, the reason the dead angel should be such a big deal is that having an angel weapon should only give a demon a fighting chance but not a guarantee due to Exorcists being warriors with centuries of experience. Also to make things more realistic I wouldn't make the dead angel the first, but rather have the characters say something like "The number of Exorcists that have died in Exterminations can be counted on two hands." You could even have Alistor be one of the ones who managed to kill one further enhancing his reputation and why he is so feared.
This is awesome! This would also help us get more into the dynamics of this universe. The fighting style of the angels could also be used as they all have wings and are accustomed to a fighting style that involves them, that cloud be used as a target, shoot for the wings and finish them once they hit the ground.
u should js be the writer atp 😭
Viv didn’t even have to scrap any characters, all she should’ve done it kept some characters for a different season and time instead of adding everyone and all the ideas into the same box hoping it would work but it ends up an entire mess. The Heaven bit could’ve been saved at the end of season 2 into potentially season 3
I can summarize everything wrong with the series in one sentence: this isn't the show that we waited for. The hazbin Hotel pilot was hazbin Hotel. The series is not.
Vivzie feels like a DeviantArt kid who never adapted to being a showrunner.
-She can't stomach the idea of her super cool OCs (plz do not steal) not being included in her story
-Overreacting to any criticism, often hypocritically and publicly (she really needs to separate her personal Twitter from her work Twitter)
-Feels like adding cursing and sex=maturity, so she tries to be as "mature" as possible
-Character designs range from tastefully detailed to having so many accessories that they look like a scrapbook
-Thinking that just by reversing popular roles, it makes the story way deeper (what if Heaven...was bad?)
I say all this not out of hate, but more so disappointment. I saw a ton of potential in Vivienne back when the pilot came out and even before then, but she's seemingly done all she can to make the worst decisions possible when handling Hazbin Hotel.
I'm in the same boat.
Having high hopes with the pilot, but after reading the reviews and mutuals reaction to both shows, it's absolutely mind boggling to screw up this badly!
Not to mention the gossip, as well as the controversies behind Viv, spindlehorse and the fandom. It's best to stay away and to keep ones sanity.
Hazbin Hotel season 1 = The Vivziepop Sugar Rush job.
Counterpoint: After Disney cancelled The Owl House, Netflix did the same with Cognito Inc and Warner Bros is even destroying already finished movies like Coyote vs Acme, I really can't blame Vivzie (an independent creator who just got picked up by the big guys in Hollywood) for rushing up the show while also keeping it somewhat consistent enough for a second season to make sense.
The industry is killing animation by cancelling good shows in favour of greenlighting regular-to-bad ones for profit, like TTGO, or exploiting old products like The Simpsons.
And if you, who were just a regular youtuber less than a decade ago, get picked out by Hollywood and Broadway, and have to compete in an environment where even great show creators like Alex Hirsch or Dana Terrace had to suffer through, you'll obviously mess up big because the nerves that such a situation causes are something we'll never understand until being in her place.
Forget about her character as a person or whether or not you agree with her political takes, whatever; put that aside and focus on the fact that any indie creator could fail big in those circumstances and that we have to be ready to expect that
Still, Viv made a good show in that environment and it will serve as inspiration for other creators who might have been let down to continue working on their independent projects.
It may not be the greatest thing on Earth, or Hell, but I'm pretty sure it can start a new trend within animation just like Chowder at the end gave us gems like Regular Show, Gravity Falls, The Owl House, Amphibia, etc.
I know I'm putting too much faith on Hazbin Hotel to say that, and on Viv herself, but as I said I don't really care about her character but rather the road she's paving for other people.
We could say the same about Glitch Studios tho, if we ignore their controversy
W comment
Not to mention it's not uncommon for a show's first season, especially one as short as this one's, to be a bit rough around the edges. The first season of Buffy the Vampire Slayer is only okay with some weird writing choices, but every season after that significantly improved and now it's remembered as one of the best supernatural shows out there.
The first 8-ish episodes of The Owl House, Avatar: The Last Airbender, and even Gravity Falls had their low moments, but the show got better the longer it went.
I am not as well-versed in the drama surrounding Vivzie or what goes down in Helluva Boss so there might be some things I'm missing about her writing and character, but I want to believe that this show will gradually improve once S2 comes around and will hopefully deliver on the potential of its world and characters by the time the show ends.
This first season is riddled with flaws but there is more than enough good for Vivzie to nurture and grow and all I can hope is that S2 and onward will deliver.
this is why im not lettin anyone touch my comic its either i will get control or i will make it myself
its weird, Netflix payed like millions of dollars on a show like green eggs and ham and then spend little of that money on other shows, like Netflix doesn't know how to juggle the money correctly
Totally. If Steven Universe had been more recently released they would've cancelled it by its first season - which would be insane. I don't blame the production for being so rushed in trying to wrap up most major thing quickly, but I still can't understand why they didn't do it in two seasons given Amazon has greenlit them a second season before the first one even aired.
@@diamoond11Funny you say that cus even then Steven Universe was initially supposed to end with Ocean Gem (hence the end credits playing then). It was renewed just after the episode got positive reviews.
Worst issue is that Adam’s defeat feels cheap. They didn’t beat Heaven, they got deus ex machinaed out.
Behold, a better S1 story structure.
E1: Introduce Charlie and Vaggie. Establish that they've been basically squatting at the hotel for 7 years trying to get her idea up and running. Basic worldbuilding shit, extermination in a week etc. Introduce Alastor at the end, fresh from his 7 year absence.
E2: Split between Angel and Cherry's introduction/how they hear of the hotel as a free place to crash at. And Charlie, Vaggie, Al, Husk, and Nifty getting the place more presentable. We also see the Vs here as antsgonistic forces.
E3: Establish Pentious and his beef with Alastor. End with him and his eggboys attacking the hotel and getting dumpstered by Al.
E4: Pentious returns to the hotel to apologize and help rebuild. Giving Charlie the first glimmer of hope for her idea.
E5: Angel snd Cherry arrive making a big show of wanting redemption, but nobody other than Charlie is buying it. This is the first real friction her idea receives as nobody really WANTS to be there for her idea. It's also revealed she got the hotel from her dad, who was so distraught by her intentions that he closed himself off from her. So they haven't spoken since then.
E6: Split between the hotel crew interacting/bonding/arguing, and the Overlords who are discussing Alastor's return. Keen to know why he's settled up at a dingy hotel with hell's royalty. It's revealed that Vox has sent Pentious as a double agent, using his hatred of Alastor as leverage.
E7: The hotel project falls apart. Pentious is outed. Angel and Cherry throw a kegger while Charlie, Al, and Vaggie are dealing with Pentious and the Vs. They leave after Alastor scares the partygoers off.
E8: Extermination day. Introduce Adam and Lute as they cut through the city. This drives Pentious, Angel, and Cherry back to the hotel, hoping Charlie can keep them safe. Then we get a big ol action scene ending with Alastor squaring off with Adam as the angels close in on the rest of the cast. End with Charlie revealing the contract signed by her father which fir totally legal reasons gives everyone under that roof protection from extermination. Adam reads it over, sees the bullshit, but is bound by the agreement. So he gives them a year to get redeemed, or he will kill all of them first.
I just feel like there was little to no true character development everyone is the exact same at the start to the end with very little actual change.
Pentious is the only one with any development. He went from alive to dead.
Fun fact, they Are created a weapon from angelic steel, at helluva boss, striker was about to kill stolas by using a freaking gun made from angelic steel and said what it can even kill deamon royalty. So yeah they use that steel, but gust not against angels....for some reason
The real problem is & im not gonna sugarcoat this, viv is a character designer not a script writer in my personal opinion, I really think that the first season should’ve introduced us to the characters slowly and gradually and introduced us to the universe instead of involving this huge plot thing that really should’ve been reserved for season two or season three
Indeed
Heck they could have still had that ticking clock huge plot line, and STILL had it concluded at the end of season 2 or 3. Bro the first season was supposed to be over the course of 6 months. 6 MONTHS. That's plenty of time for world building and character!
She doesn't know how to write and it shows in her other productions
“Emily should’ve been Charlie’s love interest”…. THIS! EXACTLY how I felt as soon as we were introduced to her character
This show failed to connect to the intended audience (late teens early adults) and literally is only seen as a good relevant show by like 10-14 year olds. Some of the songs were catchy but other than that I really don’t think this was worth the wait.
16:34 „Emily should have bin Charlie’s love interest“ is kind of a big statement to not elaborate on further
Lmao when he said that I went right down to the comments and saw this.
As a Christian I was on Adam's side mainly because I didn't wanna see Adolf Hitler getting sent off to heaven because he is "redeemed"
Dude, that's whole point of Jesus's sacrifice.
This show is obnoxious as hell and also inaccurate
@@voomvoom4522Jesus' sacrifice was there to open the chances to go to Heaven again. It's like country opened itself to apply for citizenship. Christ only opened the gates of Heaven to give us the chance to go there.
@@voomvoom4522 You don't know very much about this stuff, do you?
Thats right but why they just kill everyone on sight, the people who stole or bullied, they absolutely can be redeemed, and the bad people wont just go to heaven they gotta actually change not just want it
How did Vaggie not know that an angel can be damaged by angelic weapons when she is an angel who was injured by angelic weapons... This fact makes Carmilla doubly useless
Simple. Lazy and rushed writing.
The pilot was way better. It gave hell such an out of touch vibe and now it feels like some edgy Gacha life music video and so empty too. Everything was taken so unserious and had to be said to the characters so they’d understand what’s going on which is ridiculous since the fandom has been known for interpreting everything including bits and pieces for the last 4 years. It could have been really good
I’m absolutely pissed at whoever decided on 8 episodes, whether it was Amazon or A2A.
Husk sympathizing and helping Angel feels so out of character and rushed idk
8 episodes is enough to tell a story if you tell ONE story
The premise of the show that sold me was "Can sinners be redeemed?" I wanted to see THAT. I didn't want to see another Heaven vs Hell war story, I watched all 15 seasons of Supernatural, I fucking got it.
I wanted to see if these people who fucked up in life could find redemption. But we didn't get that.
They could have **easily** spent the entirety of season 1 on the cast in the Hotel and fleshing them out so we give a damn about all of them, and have season 8 end with meeting Adam and him being like "Oh btw; extermination in 6 months."
You have a solid start with season 1, we care about the characters and we now have a cliffhanger and hook into season 2 that could then be a call to arms.
The show went incredibly fast paced in a short amount of time, that I completely forgot that the time spawn of the 8 episodes combined in show, is supposed to be about *6 F*CKING MONTHS!*
Blame Amazon
Oh, Charlie teaming up with the Vees could’ve introduced some FANTASTIC moral dilemmas. Which. Moral dilemmas seem like the perfect thing for a show where redemption is ostensibly the premise.
Velvette is the social media demon; if anyone can teach Charlie how to reach the masses, it’s her. She also, uh, seems to favor expedience, which could help Charlie become more assertive in the face of uncertainty. On the other hand, Charlie wouldn’t appreciate Velvette bossing around the hotel denizens like she does her own workers. (Nifty probably wouldn’t mind though, in fact I could see Velvette taking a liking to her for her enthusiasm.) There’s also the fact that Velvette manufactures and sells the roofies that people (mostly Val but clearly not only Val) use on Angel, but of the Vees she seems to be the least aware of Angel’s general existence, so there could be some tension there. Velvette could probably clue in that Vaggie is an exorcist, too, and realize that Charlie doesn’t know yet, and maybe instead of Adam it’s the Vees who try to use this against Vaggie somehow; not in any way that would jeopardize the hotel’s chances against the exorcists, but just to shift things in their own favor a bit.
Vox has his rivalry with Alastor, of course, but if the Vees team up with Charlie then we could actually see what comes of VoxTech Angelic Security. Maybe he ends up collaborating with resident weapons expert Sir Pentious and realizes that the guy isn’t so worthless after all, but this manifests as him taking advantage of Pentious’s knowledge and skill because he still doesn’t see Pentious as an equal, just a fool with a few good ideas. He also…I’m not sure how to describe whatever his dynamic would be with Angel. He seems to understand that Angel lives in Val’s head rent-eternal but he doesn’t have any attention to spare for Angel himself. There’s this almost professional distance that Vox holds Angel at, for lack of a better term.
And then there’s Val, but this comment is already long enough.
It seems like this show’s writers really struggle with “kill your darlings”. This is a writing rule which basically means that sometimes the parts of your work you love the most are holding you back and often need to get cut
Can't believe after years of him being a vague image, nearly Firelord Ozai on the level of mysteriousness, only for Charlie to literally use him as a fucking way to get what she wants. VIV TURNED LUCIFER. INTO A DEUS. EX. MACHINA.
Charlie's his daughter, plus, she really needed it.
The angelic steel (holy weapons) really left me scratching my head because of how inconsistent the rules are for it.
We see the exterminators leaving their weapons behind in the pilot and Carmines daughters picking it up because Vivzie said how there is a black market for it. But than Carmine herself says how it's obvious Vaggie is a former angel because she has a angelic weapon... Which she could have picked up like anyone else or bought. So that only is confusing because it's like the writing team taking a jab to both supporters and non supporters of "Vaggie is a angel" theory by saying it's so obvious, it's not special if you noticed. But than your also dumb if you didn't.
Also, Lute says in episode one how hellborns like Charlie "were spared a exorcists blade" by her dad making a deal. Now, that could just mean hellborns aren't suppose to be hunted down in the cleanse BUT, how would they know who's a sinner and who's a demon? They all look pretty similar unfortunately so I can't see them just knowing. So, to me, it would sound more like the holy weapons can only kill sinners and not hellborns.
Yet in Helluva Boss, they get holy weapons to kill demons. Specificly Striker owning a "genuine hand crafted Carmilla holy tipped rifle" to kill Stolas.
So can holy weapons kill hellborns or not??! And if yes, what was that whole line from Lute about?? Just, hhh... More examples of not very solid writing in my books. It's even funnier knowing Vivz says the pilot is cannon to HH, yet we see Carmine with Zestial and Lucifer when the cleanse ends so HOW was she with her daughters and got ambushed???
👏
This needed to be said
It's implied that the exorcist's masks have something to do with assisting them in determining who is and isn't fair game. Once Adam and the other exorcists start breaking the rules and attacking Charlie, for example, their masks begin to glitch out, presumably because the users are overriding their inbuilt programming. Still, that doesn't explain how angels don't know that angelic weapons can harm them, or why they'd leave their spears laying around if they did
The universe she made doesn't make sense or is consistent, you're not getting a proper answer.
I sum it up that things are that way because, no more reason than simple because.
One thing I hated was the fact I could never figure out the power scale. Alastor < charlie, cause she’s the princess of hell and he’s just an overlord. Why was his fight with adam.. better? He’s getting hits on Adam, Adam seems somewhat worried about it, and then Adam nearly kills him. But Charlie, princess of hell, two magical girl transformations in, stabs his wing and blocks a punch from Adam… what???
One of the most upsetting parts of how Hazbin turned out is that I think most people were expecting a Bridge Kids-esque comedy show of shenanigans at the hotel, which could’ve had so much potential, but then were veered into focusing on an aspect of the world we didn’t really expect or want at this point, and then a ton of attempted world-building gets dumped on top of that.
One of my all time favorite movies is a 1975 film called “Nashville.” It focuses on the convergence of musicians, politicians, lawyers, and regular people who are in Nashville in the days leading up to a political rally. It expertly manages to take a cast of 24 characters and makes them all feel evenly fleshed out, or at least represented, in an amount of time almost identical to Hazbin Hotel’s total runtime. 8 22-minute episodes could be an immense challenge, but it’s doable, it’s just a matter of focusing on the right aspects of the story and bringing out the best parts of the characters you start with through their interconnected relationships with each other.
What interested me most about the series was seeing these 6 characters living in a shared space and having adventures together. Not a wattpad fanfiction about what happened after the pilot.
My boyfriend and I repeatedly said that the show seems like it’s weirdly “scared of tension” - most attempts at buildup or meaningful moments are cheapened or rushed past. It’s like that friend who can’t have a real moment with you without awkward laughter
I swear if Angel and Husk get together or some shit I'll be angry. I just want them to be good friends, there are too few good male friends in shows.
LMAO this is HILARIOUS because you act like there’s way more gay relationships than male friends nowadays. 😂
Not trying to be mean but I could probably list some recent male friendships now just from watching JJK! Lol.
@@VintageToilet There’s been an erasure of good friendships in general honestly, but I will admit it is mostly between men and women. Cant tell you how many times a piece of media has been ruined by an unnecessary relationship or love triangle
@@rubyred6608760Now I can agree that this is moreso a problem between male and female relationships.
There’s so many times I’ve watched something not prepared for a girl and guy bestfriend to become a couple and go “oh!”.
@@VintageToiletI'm pretty sure they are talking about in Viv's shows specifically lol
Womp womp