Four things that leave a bad taste in my mouth: 1. I cannot get past the fact that Charlie took CRAYON drawings to a diplomatic meeting that had the potential to decide the fate of countless people. It would have been funny if it was supposed to make her look like the joke she is, but it seems much more likely that it was meant to make her seem innocent and charming. It doesn’t, it makes her look incompetent. 2. Alastor is pathetic and sad to watch. He had a great vibe in the pilot. He was chaotic, in control, and mysterious. In the actual show, he is consistently shown to be insecure, desperate to establish dominance, and trying way too hard when it comes to his “creepy” persona. It’s cringy. Vivizie did mention it was hardest to write Alastor and it really shows. 3. I will never get over the cannibals. In a dark comedy, yeah, go ahead and recruit cannibals. That would be hilarious. But Charlie wants the moral high ground. Cannibalism is not the way to go for that. 4. I cannot believe yet more people have watched these public videos and subscribed to this public channel that is only for me. How dare you. I was never expecting to like the show, but it still interested me especially since I’ve known about Vivzie for a long time and liked some of her past projects. Nothing could have prepared me for how confused and poorly structured it turned out to be. On a final note, to all those who have subscribed, I hope you know what you’ve gotten into by joining this crew. Jazz may hold the title “captain”, but *I* control the systems of this ship, and you have started this voyage by making me very unhappy. It was bad enough that Jazz has been trying to pay me in tokens for a restaurant chain that doesn’t even exist in our branch of the universe (I don’t know how she got them), but now I have to deal with this as well. There is only so much disrespect I will take. Keep that in mind. >:(
@@ghostandjazz oh don't worry, I'm here to stay, Jazz has an awesome personality and her videos are entertaining!! As for your critiques, I totally agree there!
@@OneClassicalLass i decided to look into it, that information was given by Faustisse, who is one of the main writers, during a live stream called "💖 HAZBIN HOTEL FASHION STREAM for the COMICS!! 💖" That has been archived. This is so unbelievably pathetic, but it adds as to why Charlie doesn't work. Examples of "innocent to the point of cuteness" type characters are Luz from Own House and Mabel from Gravity falls, however they both have a distinct feature that Charlie doesn't, they are children. If a child does something like using crayon drawings in a pitch meeting then its cute, if an adult uses crayon drawings in a pitch meeting then its cringe.
There is one plot twist they could do that would impress me: Heaven isn’t heaven, it’s purgatory, and it’s full of people who have given up on self betterment. Nobody knows how to get to actual heaven because they’re all resting on their laurels and looking down on hell because “at least they aren’t there” the twist is revealed when sir pentious, having already seen the benefits of improving his behavior, becomes the first person to go from purgatory to heaven because he’s the only resident who works towards self betterment for its own sake.
Not only that, God isn't present in heaven, so it's gotta be a purgatory. Also God is the only one who can judge the dead, it even says it in the Bible. Without the presence of God, it will get chaotic there.
@RaphaelGatchalian that’s actually the exact reason I came up with that twist, in welcome to heaven the “everybody’s hot” line suggests it’s still full of people who are shallow, and if hell is separation from god, then there’s no real difference between The two places
Thats not how purgatory works really. Once youre in purgatory, its painful pirification of venial sin but you are going to heaven once the purification is over. You could maybe use limbo instead but still thats also not accurate so isk
42:05 This question is actually answered. People in hell CAN die from normal guns, weapons, etc; however, they reincarnate a few hours later back in hell. Angelic weapons prevent this reincarnation. When angelic weapons are used, the sinner dies and their “energy” is absorbed into hell. The dead bodies are from people who died normal deaths. They’ll eventually reincarnate. My problem is that this is answered in an obscure livestream. Pretty much every main question is answered in a livestream. Why should I have to go watch 100 livestreams on a sketchy archive platform in order to find basic info about a show?
@@PQAishaActually, Hellborn just die die regardless, angelic weapons or not, sinners are the only ones who get to reincarnate cuz of how high they are on the hierarchy ladder
So this isn't actually answered in an accessible way that we still know to be canon to the show? Like in the sense that this information is given to the audience
@@oreoloki8872the hierarchy doesn't make any sense. Yes sure ocs whatever but biblically, which this is trying to base itself on, sinners have no standing. None of this makes any sense, even in canon.
You know, I feel like they should've kept Lucifer as an openly judgemental, and distant character. (At least how I interpret the way he shows up in "I'm Always Chasing Rainbows.) It'd give credence to Charlie's daddy issues, explain why she's This desperate for validation/attention from other people, and would give her a mirror to look into about the way she behaves towards other people. Does she really want to end up like her father? What would getting his attention (in a positive manner) actually do for her? Not to mention, if Alastor legitimately acted like a trustworthy and present mentor/father figure the whole time, there would be real tension between the two (Lucifer and Alastor) should a Dead Beat Dad like situation arise. Alastor would also justifiably despise Lucifer for a whole slew of reasons. For being an absent, neglectful, verbally abusive father (Likely akin to the one Alastor had growing up.), for being far too strong to fight/injure/kill, and for attempting to reestablish himself as somebody Charlie can rely on when she needs help. (Which is part of Alastor's long term manipulation, and is also, ever so slightly genuine.) So, a decent-ish dad-figure who's manipulating Charlie to further his own goals, vs an awful dad who's only here bc Charlie is succeeding at something for once. (You know, instead of the hotel being another one of Charlie's Many failed projects.) I feel like Lucifer's too nice, and quick to give up in opposing Charlie's dreams in canon. There's zero stakes there.
I don't think a character for being immortal should be mature. Look at the greek pantheon. They were a bunch of idiots that did whatever they wanted because "hell yeah we're gods". The problem of Hazbin and the whole "Hellaverse" is how everyone every character is written as an edgy teenager OC. Foul-mouthed depraved and criminal for the sake of it. There's no contrast. No one is good but all are the same kind of bad. The most different was Alastor not mentioning sexual things or swearing, then they made him swear. Great.
@maravreloaded Swearing is okay almost everyone swear. I mean you know it's bad but in the show it's fine it's adult show after all. But I'm happy they didn't make him as Valentino I mean Val is into sexual things and sexual abuse others. For this I'm happy that Alastor is not sexual predator
Totally fair point. Their immaturity stood out because every single character is a, like you said, edgy teenage OC, and there was nothing to differentiate them from each other. Old, yet still immature characters can be really interesting, because they have so much more experience.
no the problem is you cant use the greeks as a frame of reference due to how the two religions view their figures of myth. The Greeks saw the gods as both representations of man and as wild forces of nature its why every god is wild and impulsive making decisions just because or without any real motivation at all because thats how we see nature sometimes. In the bible and its other texts the two groups are paragons of the alignments the angels are an ultimate force of good and are specifically gods servants and any angel that doesn't meet that is removed via "Falling" meanwhile devils/demons are the ultimate force of evil they are hedonistic tricksters and murderers which means that if someone is an angel they need to match that mood or they shouldnt be an angel and thats actually why your second point stands out as a complaint if this was based in greek myth it would make sense for gods to be petty but in biblical myth Angels arent supposed to be evil they can be detached from humanity but overall but there shouldnt be a point where an angel in a functioning heaven would provoke the question how did they get there. She didnt write angels to be angels she wrote them as villains Charlie might have actually worked better as an angel since that would allow her to have her innate sense of goodness that seems alien for hell and could have brought up interesting elements but Viv wanted to write about a demon girl in a plot that doesnt really work for a demon girl and thats ignoring all the nonsense regarding lucifer
@dukeofwisdom9118 angels are just white and gold versions of demon that are red and black. Basically the only difference between them. Look at Adam. He is a freaking duchebag.
I have my cannon: The story would make more sense if you the main character was Adam instead of Charlie, and he was trying to redeem the sinners he condemned for eating the apple that Lucifer gave him. And the one committing the genocide was Abel (his son), someone who actually has a reason to hate sinners (because he was killed by his brother, Cain). And the purpose of the genocide was sending sinners deeper and deeper into the rings of hell, for greater punishments.
Why it looks or feels so good?? XD I definitely agree Charlie is a horrible main character she is judging selfish hypocrite jerk which thinks only her can "understand" others
@ShriahAber I definitely agree!! She actually has narcisstic disorder I can say why but I dont know if yt will let me once I explained that to someone it was allowed but when I sent to someone else it was deleted ughh yt has issues
@@guerreiroazul3230"there's a CANNIBAL TOWN, there are soo many cannibals that they build up a town for them. If the camera turned left, it's propably right next to pedo village and hitler villa"
@@elmascapo6588 but they just an innocent babies 😥😥. they soooo sad in hell don't you see? they even stop fuck children on Tuesdays and burn jews on Saturdays, thats how they upset🤧🤧
I wouldn't want to beat a dead horse but talking about horses, My Little Pony Friendship is Magic had a better "house is destroyed" scene than Hazbin Hotel. And like, if this KIDS SHOW has more things to say about punishment, forgiveness and harmony than this ""adult"" show then STOP WRITING. Season 4 Episode Twilight's Kingdom Part 1. The villain, Tirek destroys Twilight's house and she barely saves her assistant/little brother and pet. And that is for sure impactful for her. That was her place in the town and she liked it being a library. The show didn't magically rebuilt it as "nothing happened". After the battle against Tirek a castle spawns out of nowhere but she doesn't fit there, doesn't want to be there wants her old home but that can't be turned back. So her friends use some of the remainings of her old house, to make decorations that make her remember her roots (literal roots because her old house was a tree, you see THIS is clever writing)
@maravreloaded I agree with you totally!! I would love if they would choose to stop do Hazbin since I'm also worried they might destroy Al since Al will get story in season 2 and I'm worried they will make him sympathetic broken anti hero like no way it wouldn't fit him! Let him be like he is! Evil psychopath cannibal which manipulates others! Yes he can have story like being abused by father but still be born as psychopath. Psychopaths can still be abused by parents but I don't want him to be forced into sympathic broken anti hero 😥
Little late but I need to say my piece. The demon child Vaggie spared wasn't a child. It was a plot device to poorly justify why she fell from Heaven. Even though Adam explicitly stated she had killed 'thousands' of sinners before. So either Vaggie just never killed the children of Hell and nobody noticed, but that raises the question of Adam's assessment of her; she was his number one killing machine or she had a sudden spontaneous change of heart. This series is just flashy eye candy, like Avatar, just throw a bunch of tumblr OC's in front of an edgy backdrop, watch them fight and later realise nothing of significance happened. This show is the epitome of a dancing bear. You're not supposed to care if the bear dances well only that it dances at all.
Very late too, but Niffty also kind of looks like a child to me. Well, If she wasn't apart of the main cast and we didn't knew she was probably in her 20's, I would think so. So maybe that Cannibal Child was also an adult who just looks like a child? Maybe he isn't Hellborn, he's a Sinner, which would mean He ate people. Which means he probably isn't that innocent and didn't deserve to be spared, If he's a sinner of course. I agree he's just a plot device for Vaggie's story(that is kinda unnecessary to me) tbh.
@@CharlieEmily999also late as hell (no pun intended), I find it a bit weird that Nifty is portrayed in a juvenile, childlike manner compared to other main characters. I don’t think she’s like a child, so to say, but she’s often played off as “crazy” and “weird” and “hyper”, and she’s just not taken seriously by others minus Alastor sometimes. She’s supposed to be someone who was driven insane by the shitty mental healthcare system, which is an interesting concept, but instead she’s trapped in the manic pixie nightmare girl box. She’s edgy just to be edgy, her role is to be crazy so people can laugh at her antics. It’s clear she has issues, including her impulsivity and clear inclination for violence, but nobody takes it seriously. Including Charlie. I’m not saying Nifty has to be serious all of the time, just at least let Charlie realize that the girl has a very real problem. If Charlie’s supposed to be about giving everyone a second chance, isn’t Nifty - someone who’s young, cheerful, not cruel in the way many hell’s denizens are, clearly suffered under someone’s hands and potentially not always in her right mind - a good candidate (as opposed to Alastor or Husker, whose motives are more complicated)?
@randomizerperson you actually bring a good point. But I meant by her looks, if she was like a background character and had little to no dialoge like the Cannibal kid as of now, I would think so. But again, I agree for the most part. Charlie's goal is about second chances, so why doesn't she try to find out Niffty's problem and at least try to fix it? Everyone doesn't take her seriously and honestly, she just wastes screentime and doesn't affect the story(I pointed out in my own comment in the comment section). Sorry if this doesn't make sense,I'm not a good debater lol.
Charlie giving sinners redemption... Essentially making Heavens victims from people that abused them r*pe them, murdur them. And their kids families.... A chance to live together.... Who would ever want that.. And that's f*cked up
That's why I say she is selfish judging hypocrite manipulating toxic with narcissistic disorder she thinks she is good and does it for people but doesn't XD its the same for Emily cause they are totally same at least when it comes to voice and personality and its more worse for Charlie I can say why 🙏 😂😂
That’s exactly my problem with her she believes sinners have a right to change and go to heaven but she doesn’t acknowledge their victims and having their tormentors would cause them a lot of distress. Angel was in the mafia when he was a human and I believe there’s a chance some of the people he killed are in heaven but is it really fair to have Angel in heaven when it could just torment his victims even further? Charlie is so annoyingly self centered and self righteous I don’t like her
@@spiritualelement757 I believe a lot of that selfishness and self-centred nature comes from VivziPop’s self insert onto Charlie. If the rumours are true that VivziPop is indeed very narcissistic and selfish at times, then it’s no wonder she would self insert herself onto one of her characters.
That my true problem with Charlie she thinks her Redemption plan and sinners have a chance but they are abusers yanderes psychopaths pedos and child murders she thinks they a chance but in reality they don't and how it cause emotional stress on angels in heaven and how angle dust was in a Mafia family and he have killed alot innocent people
I only disagree with Star being an inspiring protagonist. She genocided every single being in the universe who's made up of magic. Star's done a crime worse than the majority of the Hazbin characters and it's painted as a good, noble thing by the narrative, ugh.
The finale of svtfoe was an absolute mess. As was Star in that last season. But I do blame the writers, rather than Star, for that. That's not the character they set up or wrote her as in the previous seasons.
@@jazzandghost Why do writers love doing that??? Making a good character at first in the beginning seasons, then I guess having their mind wiped and making the character act and be out of character in the last seasons??? That's so annoying.
As a Christian myself I knew I had to turn off my brain while watching Hazbin. But man does Heaven and the Angels being cast as the incompetent bad guys grind my gears. Apparently the Angels created heaven but they don’t know how people get into heaven!?? And for thousands of years they never seek to find out!?!? Almost as if they only created that plot point so Charlie could have the high ground and call out the ‘corrupt’ system of Heaven. And Charlie acting like the souls in hell are ‘poor uwu babies’ when she sees multiple horrible people doing multiple horrible things daily. It’s so aggravating how naive she is. It’s what makes Charlie my least favorite character.
As a Christian, I absolutely loathe Charlie Morningstar for being a spineless brat. No grown adult should behave like her, especially WOMEN. Women in my family were NOT spineless brats.
@@peachybunny1875 There’s not a lot of people saying this, but there is a headcanon that Charlie as autistic it’s not Canon, but it’s nice that autistic people can relate to a character like that and for you to say that a possibly neurodivergent character is a “spineless brat” and “no grown adult should behave like her, especially women” is kind of gross especially since there’s a lot of people who are undiagnosed with autism, especially women.
@@sailorstar3148 Charlie doesn't have autism it's not cannon bro not to mention nothing from autism fits her just one thing but that's all. What she said is true XD stop justify Charlie oh God
@@tomassmith1519 mystery is very intriguing, I heard from the grapevine that the angels being mysterious was actually more hinted at in the TH-cam pilot? I wouldn't know, I haven't seen the pilot.
16:37 As a former "adult movie" actor, the way they portray people like poor victims is a bit degrading I never was a victim, but of my own poor choices. I'm old now, and it's been 30 years that I'm not in that lifestyle anymore. And I'm grateful for this. It's not what people imagine, not fun at all. It gives young people a bad idea of what it really is.
@@SurnaturalM Glad you got out of that, I'm young and I've heard that the adult film industry is a nightmare, I don't know how more youth like me think it's 'fun' and all that crap, God bless you!
That's really the core problem with Angel Dust as a character, the writing is so...immature. he's a porn star and a stripper and a prostitute and a slut and also a victim of SA...oh and of course don't forget a user of hard drugs because all those things are basically the same. That isn't to say of course someone can't be a few of those things at once but the show treats it like it all goes hand in hand with each other like a child trying way too hard to be edgy
@@Yalovayahznepomnimena what do you mean what do I mean? I mean someone who is a stripper is not also a prostitute and someone who does sex work is no a horny slut and someone who is a slutty flirt is not automatically a porn star or a stripper by trade. And probably the most gross, a victim of SA is not automatically hyper sexual, someone who does sex work is not automatically a victim and victims are not sluts. Anyone who conflates all those things is an immature person with limited knowledge about any of those things.
I remember pilot Charlie. She had so many layers It often felt she was fighting against herself to be a good person. Is a shame Vivzie fired the only good writes of the team, after stealling his ideal and not giving him any credit And it annoys me... so much how the hotel has no reason to actually exist. They could have paced this show well, but Nooooooo
Every SINGLE character got bodied or uwu'd. Alastor was turned into a Twitter yassqueen, Angel turned into a stereotype of his pilot self, Vaggie was made into an exorcist because of a dumb fan headcannon, and Lucifer should have been made more sinister.
@roxycauldwell544 Some said that Vivzie mind cannot change and said that Vaggie was an exorcist since the pilot that my facts make no sense when I said that the comic of Al doesn't have to be cannon anymore like wtf what?? Everyone's mind can change 😂😂😂
They completely changed Vaggie from being killed in earth being a prostitute to an exorcist. Everyone especially Charlie would hate this version of themselves. Also, why the hell isnt the show like the pilots fun and fluid animation?
Viziepop is a designer, she is an artist, a song-maker, a conceptualizer, but above all else, she is not a writer. She just isn't, and she weighs down the show by forcing herself to be it's writer.
@@Saltboi1823 She really could just let the writing be done by pros... Or have them give her tips or guides or... something!!! From hearing the summary, The series feels like they had too many ideas and couldn't save some ideas for later and just used all of them in one season, which is NEVER a good idea (Well, if you know what you're doing, it's a good idea... But it felt like V didn't know how to balance it all.)
@@OneClassicalLass couldn't have said it better myself. I feel like Vizie was afraid she would lose control of the story if she relinquished status as a writer; which is an understandable fear, but she must overcome it or she'll ruin her golden goose for good.
@@OneClassicalLass , This! Yes, but she wishes were a legit writer, and she has a very fragile ego. She frankly just sucks. Stick to the character designing ONLY, Vivzie. But I know you ain’t gonna listen. And by you I mean Viv.
@@Saltboi1823 , She already is ruined, Hazbin isn’t even hype anymore, people just upload Hazbin content for views. Her other show has been shrinking with the views for quite some time.
I honestly believe that Charlie is the way she is because vivzy thinks this is how good people are. She doesn't understand that genuinely good people are not just virtue signaling and trying to keep their own image up
I could see that. I feel like Charlie is kinda also her best version of _herself_ though. The version that has all the traits that she feels like she lacks in some way or another
Exactly. For someone who is supposedly a good person, we hardly ever see Charlie show any true empathy. She doesn’t reach out or talk to people. She doesn’t ask Husker or Angel about their feelings or acknowledge that they are literal slaves (Husker is literally forced to work at the hotel by Alastor!!). Her idea of helping Angel is just going to the studio and demanding he be treated better and then later cries about it when it doesn’t work out, she doesn’t actually do anything about it!! She doesn’t reason with anyone just behaves like a child. And she is absolutely hypocritical, arguing everyone can be redemmned but allows Alastor to kill all the demons outside the hotel and engages in a bloody war against the angels.
As a Christian myself the concept of her show I really like. Dammed people seeking redemption and exporting the themes of what that really means and if it can be done. But them making heaven the bad guys is where it lost me because what’s the point in getting out of hell if the people upstairs are just as bad. Also I don’t get the point of the overlords they have wealth and power and seem happy in their role where’s the punishment in that?
If you want to see this concept done right, read "The Great Divorce" by C.S. Lewis. Also, "The Screwtape Letters" is a better exploration into how demons work than either of Viziepop's stuff. Yes, any neat idea she had was already done better by a theologian whose been dead for 70 years.
You wanna see something funny? Let Charlie be in the Hotel alone with the most evil, disgusting, heartless, irredeemable monsters in fiction history, like Frieza, Bill Cipher, Jack Horner, Kid Buu, Doomsday, Freddy Krueger, Carnage/Cletus Kassidy, Mahito and Dio. See how long it takes for her to snap and pull a Puss in Boots Jiminy Cricket on them. We'll see if EVERYONE is deserving of a second chance after that.
@@Stratoblast That would be a great idea.... This doesn't just go for fictional characters too... Could Charlie believe that Hitler could be redeemed? Stalin? Ted Bundy? Jeffery Dalmer? How far is she willing to take this? I need to know this.
Considering it’s implied guys like those are the norm in hell, she wouldn’t snap, or even budge slightly since she doesn’t know how to connect to any of them. So she’ll just keep assuming they’re just damaged for her to fix and keep giving them infinite chances to do better next time so long as they keep feeding her savior complex.
Its really impressive how I've watched like 20 hours of Hazbin Horel critiques and almost every new video manages to pinpoint a new fatal flawxfor the series
I feel like Hazbin Hotel should've been about Charlie becoming a better person herself and realizing her own and her ideas' flaws. OR she could've even focused on "redeeming" some Hellborns. I only say this because Helluva Boss shows us that some Hellborn like Moxxie, his mother, and Blitzø's mother aren't inherently violent or evil or anything like that, and are kind by their own nature. Now THAT would've been interesting
Unfortunately we will never get it cause Charlie has to be always right in reality she is: narcissistic selfish judging manipulative toxic jerk just uses others for her ego and ignores other feelings but acts like she care but she doesn't😅
“She questioned the story of Adam, Eve and Lucifer” gonna take a wild assumption and assume Viv didn’t mean the Bible and actually meant Paradise Lost where Lucifer is humanized more (but is still portrayed as pathetic and selfish). I think she sympathized with Lucifer, hated Adam and viewed Eve as either a self insert or plot device. Because anyone who has read the Bible, including the person who has made this video can immediately say that Lucifer hasn’t done a single good thing and only acts in his own self interests.
@@randomguy56789considering how God still hasn't killed us all after all the bullshit we had made, we can safely say that the old man ain't really selfish
The way this show handles the morality of heaven and hell is embarrasing Why should anyone aspire to go to heaven where all the "good people" are, if the obviously villainous Adam is allowed for eons? And why should we get outta hell if there's actual chances of someone living a happy and fullfiling life? like the leader of the cannibals or the Vs?
@@guerreiroazul3230 Agreed. You know what would've helped this story? Nuance... If Vivzie added nuance and allowed the 'villains' to be correct, that would've helped this story! Because Plot wise- what Adam did wrong was disagree with Charlie.... But that's about it. He was a strawman and in a sense, so was Sera. His personality sucks sure, but it's not like he killed innocents, and given that Hell has the ability to grow to the point where they could overtake heaven, Adam killing some of the denizens of Hell is understandable! I wouldn't want cannibals, murderers etc to overrun my land either! But from what I've heard, Vivzie didn't want the villains to have a good point. She wanted them to be wrong, no matter how stupid it would seem in the final product. When Charlie was questioning the angels on how they had no idea what gets people redeemed and accepted into heaven, I'm thinking: "Would it have been so hard to add nuance and make the "bad guys" correct here? Have Sera or Adam actually know what it takes to get into heaven, and proceed to kill Charlie's defense for Angel Dust." Vivzie didn't even allow Sera to argue her points, when Charlie and Emily were singing that stupid song, she wasn't able to get a good point across, because that would require NUANCE and would immediately kill Charlie's argument. Would it have been to much to give the antagonists the upper hand and moral high ground here? Would it have killed Vivzie to allow Sera to give Charlie AND Emily (because she doesn't know any better.) a stern rebuke with good points? Because there are two sides to one coin! (I personally love it when the hero tries to argue with the villain and the villain claps back with good points- Example: No straight roads! When May and Zuke confronted Tatiana, they tried to kill her points, but she killed theirs instead showing them how they were doing the EXACT SAME THING she was doing, and it was glorious to watch her be proven right! Why? Because that causes the hero to look into their own actions.) If Sera knew what got beings in heaven and had given Charlie a verbal smackdown on HER lack of knowledge, that would've been interesting! Nuance would've killed that entire scene with Charlie in heaven because if Sera was RIGHT and KNEW what got beings in heaven, and told Charlie that Angel Dust's actions weren't good enough- that would be interesting!!! But that would require the 'villains' (I don't see Sera as a villain honestly.) to be correct! That would require Nuance! And I don't think Vivzie wants to do that... The 'Villains' of Hazbin Hotel fail for similar reasons the villain of Wish fails.... Lack of Nuance. We don't really get to understand their side. And the underhanded sly tactic of never showing why the 'villain' is right. In Wish, we never saw a bad wish that would prove Magnifico's argument correct, in Hazbin Hotel, Vivzie straight up doesn't tell us what gets a soul into heaven as that would prove Sera's and Adam's points... But that would make the look understandable, and we can't have that. But what do you think?
@@OneClassicalLass I agree with everything that you said, especially the Sara part. Even if she doesn't know exactly what gets someone she should still have a pretty good idea of it because she has been in heaven for thousands of years. To me it's because of a lack of knowledge on the subjects at hand and a lack of desire to research more into it, vivzie's idea of "redemption" is just promising to be good, but she doesn't realize that to be redeemed you need to pay for something that you did, because you are redeeming yourself of an specific action. Take Sir Pentious for example, he has been redeemed, but why? And of what? The show never tells us, because to Vivzie it doesn't matter. But that's not fair to the people who got wronged by Sir Pentious when he was alive to see him going to heaven despite everything he's done to them, which is the crux of what Vivzie doesn't understand: mercy to the guilty can be cruelty to the victim. Take Angel Dust for example, he was a mob boss in his life, imagine how bad it would feel to the old lady that got drowned by Angel because she didn't pay the "protection" fee to see him in heaven with her just because he decided to stop abusing substances or whatever, it would feel awful. But nobody makes those arguments because Vivzie, and the rest of the staff, think that redemption = being a good person. And that's it, there isn't any nuance because the writers don't think there is nuance to it.
What confuses me about making the figure of Adam a villain is if we go by biblical canon Adam was in Hell until Christ pulled him out. Adam was just a man who gave up paradise to be with Eve, if anyone represents getting sent to Hell for no "good" reason it would be Adam. Usually Micheal is the go-to heavenly warmonger.
@@guerreiroazul3230 I blame Lilith, she's basically the Medusa of Christian Lore. A minor creature that got turned into a major demon and got a feminist rebrand.
Hazbin hotel should’ve been about rehab into a functional society. I view heaven like the wealthy town with good hospitals while hell is the crackhead town. Charlie was so insulting to Angel. You have a dr-g addict asking for help and u give trust fall exercise.
@@OneClassicalLass I agree and it's so worse! How insane protectors of Charlie cannot see that?? She doesn't wanna help others cause of joy or something like that She wanna help others cause she needs to or has to in order she would feel better about herself that's why started the hotel but the show shows like Charlie started the hotel cause cannot handle to see demons being killed ahem but it doesn't matter cause in the show it's even said that Charlie tries to work through her daddy issues by fixing people. So nope she wanna only feel better about herself it's not cause of altruist intentions Charlie is judging selfish hypocrite character. Charlie also never ever listened to Vaggie only twice but that's all she is bad girlfriend to Vaggie and bad supporter Vaggie has only Charlie and had a past she wasn't proud of and was worried about losing her but instead of understanding Vaggie Charlie talked about herself to Alastor like it's her being betrayed by her girlfriend! She even didn't give at least Vaggie space to let her explain it! Yes if she would be only hurted alright but how acted was totally out of her character She even treated Vaggie as some kind of monster like she would be worse than all sinners Charlie was so cold at Vaggie When said coldly about angelic weapons: If you would know that would you tell me? She acted like Vaggie would be her enemy and a monster Yes they made it then but only cause of Rosie help and it doesn't change a fact how acted with Vaggie She never ever protected Vaggie when others disrespected Vaggie only once she tried to protect at the end but that's all she forces Vaggie in doing something she doesn't wanna do and if Vaggie does it it's only cause of Charlie but we can clearly see Vaggie sounded felt like she would be forced It most of the time seems like Charlie takes an advantage of Vaggie to do something what Charlie wanna Vaggie deserves better in my opinion Charlie is worst person character the facts I said I'll not repeat it it's already in answers In why Chaggie is toxic She made feel Angel dust like he wouldn't matter when was proud of Sir Pentious but seriously!? Angel dust stayed for free room yes but he wanna redeem himself he just hides it or something like that but Sir Pentious didn't wanna redemption at the first place before he wanted to betray them only! Not to mention she made Angel dust play characters game and was shown he feels uncomfortable by it but Charlie just thinks she knows the best. And worse is that when Angel went after characters game up the stairs saddly Charlie saw she SAW ANGEL HOW WAS SAD!! And Charlie just in her mind: wow sad but as long as Sir Pentious wanna redeem himself I don't care. She didn't understand and respect Angels discomfort when Charlie came to his job cause of idiotic hotel! She was arrogant and even if ok she stayed but she wasn't quiet and was stupid enough to talk loudly to Travis about Hazbin Yes she said sorry but only cause how Angel dust screamed to Charlie it's with kids too when you scream at them and they cry and say sorry but don't know why but say sorry cause are screamed on And I know I'll repeat it again I'm sorry XD but she is toxic character she has trouble emotionally understanding the motivations and problems of other characters. - Self-reflection is missing, she only perceives her own one-sided view. - Empathy is rather superficial, she does not understand deeper human emotions. - Social interactions are difficult for her, she can't take a regard . - The world is divided into black and white, there is no complexity. even though she appears in the show as if she feels empathy like the pain of others but it's more superficial and it looks like she's focused on herself on her goal to change the demons end the extermination etc. Or about how others feel, for example sometimes Angel dust or sometimes mostly Vaggie and the other characters. Charlie is present with a selfish desire to pursue her dream at any cost without truly understanding the needs of others. Charlie is also selfish It was selfish of her how in the song Ready for this cannibals they sang about killing and how they will eat angels and Charlie just with a judgmental expression: ehh Well that's a little violent can we tone it down? Like what? Yes Charlie is a princess but that doesn't mean she can control their thinking as she wants. She was so judging than understanding. they like to be what they want and Charlie sounds so stupid she sounded like she didn't know they were cannibals. - The demons only sang about their natural nature as cannibals, which is their everyday reality. - But Charlie wanted to dictate to them how to limit their speech according to her taste. - At the same time, she clearly did not understand that for them, being a cannibal is their identity, which they are proud of. - Her rebuke seemed arrogant and she didn't understand their situation she is selfish some said she gives chances like she maybe gives a second chances but still make others feel not important did others how Angel felt?! Or Vaggie or Lucifer!? She doesn't listen what others want or their needs they have some they just wanna be the way they are - The fact that Charlie gives a second chance does not include her further actions and behavior and does not excuse her for the way she behaves. - As I said, she still does not listen to the needs of others and makes them less important. - She judges their true nature without understanding their situation, like as I said I'm Cannibal Town when Charlie started a war because Adam wanted to attack and the cannibals sang about how they would eat and kill angels. They were just happy and happy to be the way they are, but Charlie judged them: Ehh that's a little violent can we tone it down? Ughh they are little murder right now. It sounded like she didn't even know they were cannibals like hello Charlie didn't she realize clearly that cannibals would be murderous like this? (sorry but that was judgmental and toxic and selfish of her) she just wanted to direct them to suit her taste even though she is the princess she cannot control their behaviors or minds. -Moreover, some said that Charlie is giving a second chance, but she didn't give a chance to Adam before Nifty stabbed him and why didn't she give Lucifer a chance from the beginning? She called him for help just because she needed something and she didn't even want to call him because she thought he didn't want to see her while he was struggling with his depression. And then she judged him and said nonsense that: Why is Alastor here for me when my own father is not?) Like this was toxic selfish judgmental from her and she didn't give him a chance from the beginning. Charlie's words about Alastor in contrast to her father Lucifer were unempathetic and over the top. Even if she didn't know his true motives, she had no right to judge and compare him like that. - Lucifer wanted to protect her from danger, even if Charlie didn't know it. - He was struggling with his own problems and depression and it might have been too psychologically taxing to help her. - Alastor is a manipulator, his help was with a selfish intention, which she didn't notice, but she still knows Alastor's personality a little - She didn't take into account her father's emotional state and problems, she only focused on her own goals. (only then did she gave a chance to him, but she still judged him and didn't give him a chance at the beggining). Her words were inappropriate and showed her lack of empathy towards her own family. It was really over the line and out of line. Not to mention Charlie admitted by herself that she cannot call him mainly cause Lucifer let the extermination happen. She is so judging and selfish she almost never apologized only some times but that's all. And she is really hypocrite Alastor at the episodes 8 when was war between demons and angels exorcists and he protected hotel and main cast Adam hurted Al and Al disappeared but others didn't know it and thought he died Charlie didn't cry or anything she was like in the mind: Wow sad But when Sir Pentious protected them and died for them Charlie cried as a baby!! And even made portrait of him! But what about Alastor?!! Even if Alastor didn't protect them genuinely Charlie doesn't know it lol. Some people say she is really so empathic HA! She even didn't cry about Alastor Charlie and empathic?? It's rather superficial empathic! Charlie is hypocrite toxic judging and selfish.
@@jazzandghost I agree and it's so worse! How insane protectors of Charlie cannot see that?? She doesn't wanna help others cause of joy or something like that She wanna help others cause she needs to or has to in order she would feel better about herself that's why started the hotel but the show shows like Charlie started the hotel cause cannot handle to see demons being killed ahem but it doesn't matter cause in the show it's even said that Charlie tries to work through her daddy issues by fixing people. So nope she wanna only feel better about herself it's not cause of altruist intentions Charlie is judging selfish hypocrite character. Charlie also never ever listened to Vaggie only twice but that's all she is bad girlfriend to Vaggie and bad supporter Vaggie has only Charlie and had a past she wasn't proud of and was worried about losing her but instead of understanding Vaggie Charlie talked about herself to Alastor like it's her being betrayed by her girlfriend! She even didn't give at least Vaggie space to let her explain it! Yes if she would be only hurted alright but how acted was totally out of her character She even treated Vaggie as some kind of monster like she would be worse than all sinners Charlie was so cold at Vaggie When said coldly about angelic weapons: If you would know that would you tell me? She acted like Vaggie would be her enemy and a monster Yes they made it then but only cause of Rosie help and it doesn't change a fact how acted with Vaggie She never ever protected Vaggie when others disrespected Vaggie only once she tried to protect at the end but that's all she forces Vaggie in doing something she doesn't wanna do and if Vaggie does it it's only cause of Charlie but we can clearly see Vaggie sounded felt like she would be forced It most of the time seems like Charlie takes an advantage of Vaggie to do something what Charlie wanna Vaggie deserves better in my opinion Charlie is worst person character the facts I said I'll not repeat it it's already in answers In why Chaggie is toxic She made feel Angel dust like he wouldn't matter when was proud of Sir Pentious but seriously!? Angel dust stayed for free room yes but he wanna redeem himself he just hides it or something like that but Sir Pentious didn't wanna redemption at the first place before he wanted to betray them only! Not to mention she made Angel dust play characters game and was shown he feels uncomfortable by it but Charlie just thinks she knows the best. And worse is that when Angel went after characters game up the stairs saddly Charlie saw she SAW ANGEL HOW WAS SAD!! And Charlie just in her mind: wow sad but as long as Sir Pentious wanna redeem himself I don't care. She didn't understand and respect Angels discomfort when Charlie came to his job cause of idiotic hotel! She was arrogant and even if ok she stayed but she wasn't quiet and was stupid enough to talk loudly to Travis about Hazbin Yes she said sorry but only cause how Angel dust screamed to Charlie it's with kids too when you scream at them and they cry and say sorry but don't know why but say sorry cause are screamed on And I know I'll repeat it again I'm sorry XD but she is toxic character she has trouble emotionally understanding the motivations and problems of other characters. - Self-reflection is missing, she only perceives her own one-sided view. - Empathy is rather superficial, she does not understand deeper human emotions. - Social interactions are difficult for her, she can't take a regard . - The world is divided into black and white, there is no complexity. even though she appears in the show as if she feels empathy like the pain of others but it's more superficial and it looks like she's focused on herself on her goal to change the demons end the extermination etc. Or about how others feel, for example sometimes Angel dust or sometimes mostly Vaggie and the other characters. Charlie is present with a selfish desire to pursue her dream at any cost without truly understanding the needs of others. Charlie is also selfish It was selfish of her how in the song Ready for this cannibals they sang about killing and how they will eat angels and Charlie just with a judgmental expression: ehh Well that's a little violent can we tone it down? Like what? Yes Charlie is a princess but that doesn't mean she can control their thinking as she wants. She was so judging than understanding. they like to be what they want and Charlie sounds so stupid she sounded like she didn't know they were cannibals. - The demons only sang about their natural nature as cannibals, which is their everyday reality. - But Charlie wanted to dictate to them how to limit their speech according to her taste. - At the same time, she clearly did not understand that for them, being a cannibal is their identity, which they are proud of. - Her rebuke seemed arrogant and she didn't understand their situation she is selfish some said she gives chances like she maybe gives a second chances but still make others feel not important did others how Angel felt?! Or Vaggie or Lucifer!? She doesn't listen what others want or their needs they have some they just wanna be the way they are - The fact that Charlie gives a second chance does not include her further actions and behavior and does not excuse her for the way she behaves. - As I said, she still does not listen to the needs of others and makes them less important. - She judges their true nature without understanding their situation, like as I said I'm Cannibal Town when Charlie started a war because Adam wanted to attack and the cannibals sang about how they would eat and kill angels. They were just happy and happy to be the way they are, but Charlie judged them: Ehh that's a little violent can we tone it down? Ughh they are little murder right now. It sounded like she didn't even know they were cannibals like hello Charlie didn't she realize clearly that cannibals would be murderous like this? (sorry but that was judgmental and toxic and selfish of her) she just wanted to direct them to suit her taste even though she is the princess she cannot control their behaviors or minds. -Moreover, some said that Charlie is giving a second chance, but she didn't give a chance to Adam before Nifty stabbed him and why didn't she give Lucifer a chance from the beginning? She called him for help just because she needed something and she didn't even want to call him because she thought he didn't want to see her while he was struggling with his depression. And then she judged him and said nonsense that: Why is Alastor here for me when my own father is not?) Like this was toxic selfish judgmental from her and she didn't give him a chance from the beginning. Charlie's words about Alastor in contrast to her father Lucifer were unempathetic and over the top. Even if she didn't know his true motives, she had no right to judge and compare him like that. - Lucifer wanted to protect her from danger, even if Charlie didn't know it. - He was struggling with his own problems and depression and it might have been too psychologically taxing to help her. - Alastor is a manipulator, his help was with a selfish intention, which she didn't notice, but she still knows Alastor's personality a little - She didn't take into account her father's emotional state and problems, she only focused on her own goals. (only then did she gave a chance to him, but she still judged him and didn't give him a chance at the beggining). Her words were inappropriate and showed her lack of empathy towards her own family. It was really over the line and out of line. Not to mention Charlie admitted by herself that she cannot call him mainly cause Lucifer let the extermination happen. She is so judging and selfish she almost never apologized only some times but that's all. And she is really hypocrite Alastor at the episodes 8 when was war between demons and angels exorcists and he protected hotel and main cast Adam hurted Al and Al disappeared but others didn't know it and thought he died Charlie didn't cry or anything she was like in the mind: Wow sad But when Sir Pentious protected them and died for them Charlie cried as a baby!! And even made portrait of him! But what about Alastor?!! Even if Alastor didn't protect them genuinely Charlie doesn't know it lol. Some people say she is really so empathic HA! She even didn't cry about Alastor Charlie and empathic?? It's rather superficial empathic! Charlie is hypocrite toxic judging and selfish.
@@ShoukoNishimiya17 Loved reading your rants 😄! Anyway, Facts, I mean main characters can make mistakes.... But they have to be called out AND endure the consequences of their actions (I say 'AND' because Calling them out isn't really a consequence.).... That's what makes a good character.... Good. Naruto wasn't perfect, his actions affected other people... And in the beginning he wasn't the most likable child, but you understood why he acted as such, but he still got consequences. I've heard some critics blame the amount of writers for the story of this show being so bad.... But that sounds like a cop-out excuse to me, a large amount of writers can still produce a good story! They communicate and work together as a team for efficiency, not saying the writers of Hazbin Hotel didn't do that... But- there's a slight possibility given the final product.
From that summary, I feel like this show would've been a lot better if the creator wasn't so obsessed with dunking on Christianity that she forgot to give the characters any reason to exist or any sort of deeper meaning. Even as a Christian, it had the potential for me to enjoy it. Redemption and found family are probably my two favorite tropes ever. If that had been the central theme of Hazbin Hotel with the moral heart being about selflessness or compassion, then I think I could enjoy it. But there is no redemption (there is no CHANGE), they are not found family (they don't even seem to care about each other much aside from the one guy), every character (again, except the one guy) is selfish, and no one calls them out on it.
I swear, you’re the first person who’s made these critical videos that acknowledged that Lucifer straight up damned all of humanity and still plays the victim over it. And NOBODY acknowledges it, whether in the show or in the fandom. Also Charlie’s inconsistent morality, another missed thing I swear people don’t discuss enough. People point out her hypocrisy with Vaggie, but what about Valentino and Adam. How about that old woman she called a bitch. Or when she cut her dad out of her life because he… doesn’t call her sometimes? You’d think this show would be about challenging Charlie’s belief that everyone can be reformed by having them confront her own puritanical thoughts but instead she’s… always right? And to be clear, I’m not saying Charlie can’t hate Valentino and Adam, it’s completely justified to find them irredeemable people, but it would have been a great moment for Charlie if SHE was forced to confront that feeling of hypocrisy, that maybe the angels are right some people don’t deserve to be redeemed, but rules shouldn’t be so rigid.
Omg I totally agree!! And no you're not alone I thought about it too how Charlie acts selfishly judgmental and acts like hypocrite with others even if she seems nice she isn't. Poor others I feel bad mainly for Luci and Vaggie they deserve better love and daughter. And it's worse and she has for sure narcissistic disorder why? I can tell you everything if you wanna but I agree with everything you said!
@@Pomeranian690it’s like, actually fascinating how Viv is really bad at writing kind characters. Charlie is “nice” but she has done nothing to help Angel dust and can’t handle criticism without crying about it (huh. Sounds familiar). Emily is “nice” but is more willing to sympathize with rapists and murderers and not the people heaven is trying to protect. Millie is “nice” but doesn’t react when Moxxie is knocked around or bullied. Stolas is “nice” but the man is an actual sexual predator. Fizzarolli is “nice” but flexes his wealth and straight up murdered some demons with his car in the same episode where he lectures Blitzo about how he has no reason to judge the wealthy. Verosika is “nice” but she’s also a sexual predator! What is with this writing.
@Birdyboys I totally agree omg! Even me I can write better characters. And and even Rachel Gardner from angels of death anime which has trauma and problems she is more kind than Charlie. BTW Millie is quite bad too but she is little better than Charlie cause Charlie almost never protected or listened Vaggie or appreciates her. Unlike her Millie many times listened appreciated Mooxie and protected him. Even if some times yes Millie didn't protect Mooxie too but still quite better than Charlie. But I agree with you with this 💫 If you are more wondering about my facts about Charlie why is judging selfish hypocrite I can tell you 🍀 Emily is selfish judging hypocrite too after all Emily and Charlie have the same personality
He suffers from the same problem Maleficent had In the Live Action Disney remake has. We love The Devil/Lucifer and Maleficent because they are evil. Not because they're "Misunderstood".
@@Birdyboys Oh my goodness, I agree with you, what IS this writing????? That's too many similarities! Hmm.... Is Vivzie trying to tell us something?.... 🤔 It's not hard to write a nice person... I'll do it right now! Groger is a very big burly man, very strong man- But people are scared of him because he is big (muscular) so he's nice so people won't fear him- he bakes for the little children around his neighborhood, he helps his fellow neighbors with errands, he's an all around nice guy.... That wasn't hard at all!!! And he still has room for seasoning!! But seriously though, that's crazy....
"If angels can do whatever and stay in the sky, then heaven is a lie" Bro, the existence of vaggie and LUCIFER literally destroys that point. They really thought they cooked with that line XD
How does Lucifer give her free will by giving Eve the fruit? If he gives her free will through the fruit, then that means she doesn't have the free will to eat the fruit to begin with, so how does she even eat it? Was she force-fed? Doesn't sound like he's giving her much free will in making that decision.
@@AquaMidget If heaven can just make replacement women when they get rebellious why didn't they make a new one. It sounds like Eve ate the apple alone, she didn't offer it to Adam.
I was wondering that too. In the Bible and old testament as a whole, humans had free will but was free of sin. Humans were the caretakers of the earth to use it to live and care for it. The only rule was to not eat the fruit from the tree of knowledge of good & evil. The devil as a serpent makes Eve believe that if she eats it, she and Adam will be like God, and that God fears them eating from it. Eve, not knowing the consequences besides that they will die, and not understanding what death is, eats of the fruit. Adam in turn follows his wife, and realizes they’re naked, and now sin, death, and all aspects which humans once did not face are brought upon them. Humans are born with free will. Adam and Eve chose to eat the fruit, as they were told not to and told the consequences (even if they didn’t exactly know what that meant). If in the Hazbin universe there’s no free will, then there’s no consequences. Honestly the only way to salvage the opening narrative is for Vivzie to make Lucifer a liar about what happened.
It’s one of the interpretations of what Adam and Eve got from the fruit of knowledge. The most traditional interpretation is it granted the ability to tell the difference between good and evil, making humans moral arbiters on the same level as god. A slightly different interpretation is that it gave them free will, and yeah there’s a problem with God punishing people who had the intellectual range of children for taking something yummy that was offered to them and eating it.
1:24:11 For Thor, it’s intentionally made that way because his friends are enablers and are just as arrogant as he is. Thor is a spoiled person, never held accountable for his actions, and no one has given him no as an answer. Him being banished was the only time he was actually facing consequences for something he did. The only person who sees Thor in the wrong for acting this way is the antagonist of this story, Loki. He sees Thor as an unworthy heir of the throne and thinks that he can be a much better King than Thor ever will be. Which is the reason why he schemes and betrays Asgard. He did manage to succeed but only for short time; since Thor had gone through a whole character arc and defeated him.
Ive said this before to people but hazbin hotel is anti everything and is pro nothing. Its the idea of wanting to be the hero fighting the ultmite bad guys who have all the power. The problum is the wrighters dont have any values beside rebeling for rebeling sake. so the wrighters have to make the bad guys as evil as humanly possabel. That way our heros have a ression to rebel. Its why charlie is cool with canabels but isnt with having them be killed. Its so they can have there rebelion or underdog heros have a ression to fight the ones in power. Heres an exampel adem is a straw man in the show right. But what is he a strawman of? Rich people? The church? Christan values? The awser is none hes just evil so our heros are good when they fight and kill him.
Yeah, I think you're right about the writers. Your values will always show through in your writing, even if it's not on purpose. And I think that's what happened here
Side note I might be wrong about the wrighters having no values cuz its also possable they all have diffrent values and they all got mashed togther turning into a unfocus mush.
It's pro reformation and anti genocide...how is what you are claiming true? They do have values but not every ally of Charlie is a good person which is the point. I mean...no even the main characters are evil at times too. Eh no Charlie has issues with cannibals and finds them disgusting. He isn't a straw man, how is he? If it's none then he isn't a straw man, except killing him doesn't solve everything especially when there are evil people in Hell clearly.
@@Jdudec367 what I mean by the wrighters have no values is that there choices are based not on what things are more importan then other things but rather based on what they feel at that moment. If adam came to the hotel to be reformed would charlie take him in? I belive no. Why? Cuz he made her feel bad. Charlie/the show/the wrighhter only belive what they feel in that moment. So when moraly gray question happen they dont have an awser besides "idk". This is why I belive charlie was not acting out of chartar when she got mad at vagie for lying to her and didnt act this way when sir penchius lyed about wanting to be redemed. She felt hurt by vagie but she didnt give a shit that sir Penchius was puting up camras cuz it didnt make her feel bad.
It's so weird how much Charlie is infantilised in her own show. Like, other characters constantly seem to be shielding her and doing everything for her. Like: - When she barges into Angel's work to ask for time off, she shows no understanding of how things work and when she sets the set on fire, she starts crying like a child and doesn't understand Angel is yelling at her to leave to protect her and reacts like she's been scolded by her parent, even though Angel Dust is the one who gets the shit beaten out of him for her actions. Then Husk has to go talk to Angel instead of Charlie, and Angel forgives Charlie because she "didn't mean any harm" and she literally gets carried out of the scene like a toddler by Vaggie. Charlie shows no understanding of WHY what she did was stupid and she's just upset because somebody scolded her for once. Also, why was Angel protecting her from Val? Isn't Charlie leagues more powerful than Val? Even if he thought Charlie would be too nice to actually fight Val, why doesn't he explain to Charlie about his deal? It's not like he's forbidden to do so - he tells Husk outright he sold Val is soul in their duet. - Vaggie acts more like Charlie's minder than her girlfriend. She tries to warn Charlie things aren't a good idea multiple times but Charlie gives her puppy eyes and she gives in. Charlie always shoves her responsibilities off onto Vaggie and relies on her for emotional support, which Alastor takes advantage of to persuade Charlie into making a deal with him when she's vulnerable. Vaggie isn't really her own person, she's there to protect, coddle and support Charlie and has no life or goals outside of that. - Charlie's habits and mannerisms are displayed as very childish. Like you mentioned, she brings crayon drawings to an important meeting, sings songs that outright annoy everyone else (she's the only character who gets this reaction when she sings) like a child with no social awareness, she always looks uncomfortable with anything to do with sex or Angel's job even though she's in a presumably sexual relationship with Vaggie and she responds positively to Alastor patronising her and treating her like a child. Then she's shocked when people laugh in her face and don't take her seriously even though she doesn't even know if redemption is possible. - During the final conflict she can't handle Adam on her own and instead of the show making her reflect on how she's tried to bite off way more than she can chew and stand on her own regardless of what happens, Lucifer shows up to bail her out and she spends the rest of the battle being carried around in his arms like a child. Also, she supposedly has "daddy issues" yet Lucifer is desperate to bond with her and Charlie doesn't think to try reaching out to her dad until she's desperate and needs his help. It seems more like she's the problem than Lucifer. Also, I think it's ridiculous that nobody, not Alastor or Husk or Angel, point out to Charlie that she can't possibly understand sinners on a very basic level because she was BORN in hell. She has no idea what it's like to fuck up so badly that you lose everything and have to suffer those consequences. Charlie has never felt the consequences for anything, she just says "I'm sorry" and gets forgiven immediately. She might feel pity for sinners but she doesn't understand them, so how is she expected to encourage them to be better and redeem themselves if she doesn't understand how and why people end up in hell? They really could have addressed this if they had Charlie go talk to Angel after the whole Val fiasco where he rips into her about how her oblivious, short-sighted actions made everything worse for him and she could have been made to understand why "wanting to help" isn't good enough. But no, Husk does Charlie's job for her because he can talk to Angel on his level while Charlie can't, and then she gets forgiven because she's treated like she's too young and stupid to know any better. Honestly the fact that Charlie and Niffty are both treated like children is another example of Vivziepop being terrible at writing female characters.
She isn't infantilised though. No they aren't constantly shielding her or doing everything for her. -She cried but it wasn't like a child and yeah she realized that she messed up there and that Angel is yelling at her to leave to protect her but does Charlie really need Angel's protection? She didn't reacts like she's been scolded by her parent she reacted like her friend is mad at her. And she didn't know that Angel Dust who gets the shit beaten out of him for her actions tbf. Well yeah Charlie wasn't in the right state to do that at that point, well yeah that makes sense Charlie was just trying to help him why wouldn't he forgive her? She gets carried out but it isn't like a toddler really. No she knows why what she did was stupid it's why she apologized to begin with and she isn't upset because somebody scolded her it's because she messed up and made things worse. Yeah Charlie is leagues more powerful than Val but he didn't want her getting involved with or getting into beef with Val at all as that is his business he feels like and not Charlie's. He didn't have time to explain that in that moment obviously. -No Vaggie acts like her girlfriend not her minder. Vaggie changes her mind yeah and? Usually when that happens it works out and is a good idea on Charlie's part. No she doesn't e always shoves her responsibilities off onto Vaggie like she never did that in episodes 5 6 7 and 8 and she doesn't soley rely on her for emotional support either. But again that's not what she did. No she is her own person with her own relationships with other characters and wants and desires and goals and her own life. -No her habits and mannerisms aren't displayed as very childish, or at least not all of them. Crayon drawings? Yeah childish, but sinigng songs can help (well yeah because she tries singing the most and in front of others) she's not like a child with no social awareness more like a sheltered adult which she actually is. Well when it's sudden and out of pocket yeah she would be uncomfortable with that but she isn't uncomfortable with literally anything to do with sex and she doesn't responds positively to Alastor patronising her and treating her like a child but neutrally she responded positively to other stuff really. I mean yeah like they can at least test if redemption is possible but no one wants to give it a try for some reason so yeah she would be shocked. -Reflect how? She already knows now that she bit off more than she could chew, even with Lucifer helping her she still knows that really. He still abandoned her for many years and clearly didn't try talking to or visiting her so yeah she has daddyy issues, and why would Charlie think to try reaching out to her dad when her dad clearly wasn't interested in her at all? Nah Lucifer is clearl the problem reall. But that's wrong she can understand them and their problems I mean she knows many sinners already and what they go through she can understand them. But she knows what it's like to fuck up and do bad things at times and besides she grew up with people who experienced that like her dad for example. No she has felt the consequences for stuff, that only happens when forgiveness is deserved and even then there are still consequences like how she messed up trying to get Angel away from Valentino and how that would only make Val more hostile towards her now. No she does understand Sinners, so she can encourage them to be better and redeem themselves and she does understand how and why people end up in hell. That doesn't need to be addresse when it really isn't true, she already could see how her oblivious, short-sighted actions made everything worse for him though and she was made to understand why "wanting to help" isn't good enough. That wasn't Charlie's job that was Husk's and Charlie can talk to Angel on his level just in a different way, no she gets forgiven because she genuinely was only trying to help and no she wasn't treated like she's too young or stupid to know any better. They aren't treated like children though, and no Viv isnnt that bad e at writing female characters.
@@Jdudec367 Again protector of Charlie you're everywhere 😂😂 nobody who is smart enough will believe in what you say. Didn't you make a fool of yourself enough already?😂😂
@@Jdudec367 No not really XD bro I see you everywhere If I would can I would show you proofs or you are everywhere 😂 or what? Would you tell me it's someone else who made an account to pretend to be you mm?? XD 😂
(WARNING: This is gonna be a pretty long comment.) Here’s a character I don’t think anyone’s brought up that does what Charlie tried to do about a zillion times better: Leslie Knope from Parks and Recreation. She and Charlie are actually very similar. They’re both super-positive, happy-go-lucky girls, who have a dream/goal they want to accomplish with a ragtag group of misfits behind them. What makes Leslie the better character? Well, a few things actually: -She’s not only great at her job as a public service bureaucrat, she LOVES it. It’s her passion. Ever since she was a little kid, she’s wanted to make Pawnee a better place, and she manages to do that in every endeavor she takes. Sure, she makes a few mistakes or runs into a few road bumps along the way, but she always manages to persevere on her own merits and her passion for the work she does. -While Charlie “attempts” to be everyone’s best friend, Leslie is THE BEST friend. Leslie has so much love to give to the people she cares about, and it only takes one episode to notice that. One of her defining traits is that she’s a master at gift-giving because she knows her friends so well. She sticks up for her friends, inspires them to be better people, and is always planning grand gestures of affection whenever she can. If you’re Leslie Knope’s friend, she will be your biggest and loudest cheerleader. -Unlike Charlie, Leslie has close and defined relationships with all of the main cast, and what makes that even more apparent is that, while Leslie’s friends love and respect her, they’re not afraid to disagree with her or call her out when she’s wrong about something. While Vaggie exists purely to be Charlie’s yes-woman, Ann is usually the one who keeps Leslie grounded and brings her back to reality. They may be best friends, but that doesn’t mean they have to be on the same page about everything. -Leslie has flaws, but the show acknowledges them as such and frames Leslie as being in the wrong for acting on them. One of the greatest examples of this is the episode Farmer’s Market. The Pawnee Famrer’s Market gets a new vendor who uses skimpily dressed people to sell his chard, while kids and families are around. Obviously, Leslie wants to do something about this, but because she’s the dangerous combination of being passionate, stubborn, and driven all at the same time, she does NOT handle the situation well at all. She immediately jumps to wanting to kick him out instead of coming up with some kind of compromise, she comes up with a bunch of rules that are clearly targeting the chard vendor in particular, even though he’s not really breaking any real health or code violations, and she even goes as far as to revoke his license without consulting Ben first. While Leslie was right to be concerned that kids and families would see stuff they shouldn’t be seeing, she’s only thinking about herself and what SHE thinks is best. She’s not taking anyone else into consideration, not Ben, not Nolan, the chard vendor in question, not even the other farmers, who say that Nolan is helping their businesses flourish, and as Ben so eloquently put it: When you’re arguing with Leslie Knope, you might as well be arguing with the sun. But unlike the sun, Leslie actually can be reasoned with, and after realizing how her actions and stubbornness have caused the people around her to feel, she realizes her mistake, apologizes to the parties she hurt, and eventually, they do come up with that compromise I mentioned earlier. Meanwhile, from what’s been shown in this video, Charlie never has a moment or episode like this. She’s always right and the people who disagree with her are always wrong. -Speaking of which, that’s another thing that makes Leslie the better protagonist, how the people who strongly disagree with her are portrayed. Adam is just a one-dimensional jerk who’s only there to give Charlie a villain to fight against and to make her look good by comparison. Ron Swanson, on the other hand, is Leslie’s polar opposite in many ways, but the show doesn’t make him the evil bad guy who’s always there to tear her down, he’s a trusted friend, and source of guidance for Leslie whenever she needs it. Their different personal and political beliefs challenge and strengthen their bond. They learn from each other and make each other better. And if we want to talk about specifically antagonists, just look at Bobby Newport. Bobby essentially fills the same role as Adam, in that he is the person going up against the main character and her big ideas, but what makes him work is the fact that he’s not an irredeemable jerk. Quite the opposite. Bobby Newport was a kid whose dad bought him a political position to make him look good. It’s made pretty clear from the jump that Bobby has no idea what he’s doing or what he’s in for. Which is showcased perfectly with how interacts with Leslie. As Leslie and Bobby spend more time together as opposing candidates for city council, they get to know each other more. Bobby realizes that Leslie is MUCH more suited for the city council than he is, and the two of them even start to form a small friendship. Not to mention, Bobby was created to showcase/satirize the weird world of politics and how people don’t always get to where they are through talent and passion. I would add more, but I think I’ve covered all of the main things. Leslie Knope is better than Charlie, because she has tons of good qualities to go along with her bad ones, her supporting cast aren’t just yes-man, she’s treated as being in the wrong when she needs to be, and the people who she comes into conflict with aren’t just flat strawmen. Parks and Rec is a really great show, with great overall themes and messages.
I totally agree!! Nto mention also Charlie should give redeeming plan and princess title to someone else for example even Rachel gardner from angels of death anime she is so more better than Charlie too she has trauma and little issues yes but is kind forgives and is understanding she would know they aren't innocent unlike Charlie which has weird view. She shouldn't exist since also she has narcisstic disorder and I can say why if you're wondering of course good analysis btw Xd
To be honest... The first time I watched the Pilot episode(the old one), I thought it's going to be an apocalyptic setting, MC actually maturing, angels are actually scary and mysterious... But no, we got a boring(kinda cringe) MC, useless jokes everywhere, pointless, angels are just... there, i guess. Honestly, after I watched all of that... yeah, disappointed.
1:50 -2:00 That description of Charlie sounds very familiar for some reason. Almost like she's an author's surrogate without a single bit of self-awareness or irony.
@@OneClassicalLass i have no clue either but "authors surrogate" maybe means... carrying whatever the writer wishes??? Idk, all I know is Charlie got impregnated by Vivziepop apparently
@@SodaFrizz666 What MBThomas is trying to say is that Charlie is Vivienne Medrano's author avatar. Like a self insert except Vivienne Medrano's is horribly written.
Show would have been more appealing if they made the angels less the obvious bad guys. Like either Adam instead of the generic frat guy evil dude he’s a grizzled war vet seeing the worst hell has to offer over the years being the first human angel. But no he’s just generic evil frat guy this show had so much potential and now I just don’t care about it.
ehh I think the frat boy is fine but just let him explain his rationale more often. He's not killing innocent civilians he's killing objectively evil people. WHY DOESN'T HE CALL HER OUT ON THAT?
@@thegreatest5251the frat boy doesn't fit a man that was forced to live on a barren wasteland for a thousand years, got paradise stolen from him for no reason and has wittesed all the dumb ways humanity found to kill each other. It should be a miracle that he's able to smile
I just wanted to say thank you for this channel,as a wannabe storyteller and screenwriter,this helped me (while cringing at the thought of the show)figure out what to do and what not to do when it comes to writing characters and stories
This might be a really weird and uncommon take. But I dont think Vivziepop is necessarily unaware that her writing is bad. I think she really enjoys her own bad writing.
@@jazzandghostYeah when people enjoy what they do or how they do things they there are people who would find ways to improve even more and people who don’t see any reason to improve because they enjoy it the way it is. Vivzie does not see the point to change anything because she likes how she writes and refuses to listen to any criticism because it feels like telling her what she likes is wrong but going that way is only self sabotage
As a Christian myself I was always taught that everyone has an opportunity to get right with god when they are still on earth but they decide to keep going into sin. It feels weird that Charlie is trying to redeem these sinners that have no redeeming qualities
@@IronBat-505 Yes, Hazbin Hotel never bothers to explain how redeeming a already judged sinner is unfair to the people who RIGHTFULLY turned from sin in life and earned their way into heaven fairly. Heaven and Hell aren't pitstops, they're final destinations, your decisions in life determine how you get to these places in death, but if you can just get plucked out of hell for making better decisions (?) and just go to heaven anyway, why even bother at that point? No one would have any reason to live a good honorable right with God (or the divine judgement as they call it in HH, I'm calling that God I don't care.) It would've been cool if one of the "bad guys" Adam or Sera even made that point... Alas, potential for an intriguing and mature story.... Wasted. This story is in dire need of a rewrite... Seriously.
Facts. I get that vivzipop doesn’t actually care about Christianity but it’s still dumb that they never acknowledge this point. Alastor pretty much said it himself in the pilot. The sinners in hell already had a chance when they were on earth and they didn’t take it. It’s not like God is like if you do something once you can never get another chance again. No. You have as much time as you do on earth to turn around your life and turn to God. Everyone that’s in hell decided not to do so. Charlie constantly goes on and on about giving sinners a second chance but they already had thousands when they were on earth. Like Alastor said, hell is the final resting point once you die. You can’t get mad at heaven or God and act like they’re the bad guys when you yourself didn’t take the abundance of chances you had when you were still on earth. It’s also worth noting that not everyone in hell deserves a second chance. Valentino for example. It’s such a crime that this show NEVER acknowledges either of these points. But, then again if they did then there would be no show lol.
I feel like it would make more since if we actually had reasons to sympathize with why the characters sinned or even if the show have characters with sins like sex before marriage, being gay, etc. You can't show me someone that clearly likes commiting acts of violence and expect me to believe they deserve to get into heaven. Not to mention, they never mention if they have limits as to who they'll accept into the hotel. Will they be willing to redeem a rapist? Murderer? Abusive parent/spouse? Did any of these people try to fix these behaviors or get on the right path while they were alive? If not, why? Did they have to act on sinful behaviors to survive? (Stealing, prostitution, etc) Did they just not believe in god? Why should I care that this person is in hell. From what I see, they earned their slot there just like a person who'd end up in heaven.
You know, if they wanted to make a point of the system being unfair, why not show normal people in hell? Yknow, people who don’t murder or rape, but maybe thought something shitty once, or spent a lot of time fapping, or happened to choose the wrong religion or be gay. All that shit crazy religious people tell you that you’d go to hell for and never question how fucked that’d be. According to some people, unbaptized babies go to hell. Imagine babies in hell and tell me why hell should be forever.
I once found a religious pamphlet that essentially said you can go to hell for intrusive thoughts. If that’s the case, what kind of chance does that give anyone?
The main problem is that people who are trying to say everyone should be their own arbiter of their own morality and there is no objective truth but Christianity is bad because it's judgemental - still believe in objective and universal truths, use the moral categories of good and bad, and ultimately "their own" ideas are actually Christian ideas that have been part of culture and civilization they've inherited for so long they don't even realise are Christian.
One of these people once told me that they don’t believe in objective morality, but they will say things are right or wrong to them. Therefore, if someone did something evil to their subjective opinion, they will call them out or fight them if necessary.
@@tfordham13 there certainly was philosophy and morality before Christians and parallel to Israelite culture. But it really didn't look much like our modern ideas.
“There’s a lot of feminist and not-straight people in hell, what are you trying to say with that?” Got em 😂 This was a really well put together video essay! I can’t wait to see what else you make in the future! ❤🙏
to be fair, we don´t see that much of heaven and have no idea about their sexualities, plus anyone can be a bad person so it´s not surprising that there would be minorities in hell at all. but of course that´s assuming they´re bad people at all, since evidently no one has any idea who can get into heaven and hell is also full of people who eg, value consent (including the literal embodiment of lust for some reason), protect their loved ones (Carmilla and her daughters and maybe even Zestiel??), are genuinely good leaders and give good relationship advice (Rosie) and so on. Heck, we even see a literal CHILD in hell who looks like they´re 10 at most... and Vaggie ofc gets expelled for not killing said child
Hazbin and Helluva Boss both have Viv in control and her awful writing tarnished Hazbin Hotel, she said she valued good faith criticism but she wrote early episodes of Hazbin, Adam is how he is, the terrible logic and so on because of her and skip to Full Moon and it still is awful, she then says Stolas is in wrong too but we get Apology Tour and no Merch that Blitz has that truly shows they're equally in wrong & Blitz gets turned into a villainous individual that "proves" Stolas is better, you can say that Viv didnt write all of it but that doesnt change the fact she greenlit this stuff, she willingly chose to keep everything as is and there's more than just what I mentioned that shows Viv is the problem, the more she gets to stay, write and have control, the more this stuff is going to stay.
@@artistanthony1007 Maybe she needs writing classes or actual writing professionals to guide her way?? Seems like she's trying to wing it and can't refuse any ideas in my eyes... Just listening to the summary made me feel like the writers all had different ideas for the series and Vivzie couldn't dwindle these ideas down and kept all of them... That's the vibe I'm getting for sure!
Vivzie pop's writing is literally no different from the corrupted hollywood writing She changes original voice actors for the more popular and more well known cast's,even if said cast wouldn't entirely have that smae vibe or tone that the original voice actors portrayed much better with,one of which was badly voiced acted was "Katie Killjoy" she barely has much screen time in the show but her voice was so out of focus from her personality and charcter it just sucks that people tolerate it just because they "like the show" What's eveb funny is viv said in her interview that she is willing to "kill her darling's" when that feels very shadily bias,this could really imply she heard the criticism of her own show but knstead of learning from it while making the show she simply shoced it for the second season to excuse her complete lack of skill in writing hee one characters ( and i doubt shes gonna kill her *favorite* darling, especially when Serpentious the least favorite of Her OC's was blasted like a walking joke and only revived to keep the fans of the show drooling and praising her undercooked of a show) The main character *Charlie* is basic at best and looks like the typical y/n at worst with all the,blonde hair,blue eyes,*rich* brat with a sad (not so sad) typical backstory and the only excuse they gave her for her failings was "she's quirky, she's naive" Bias,that doesn't excuse that shes a terrible MC since the first show...she sounds like those typical preaching with doing no real effort or development to the story (they just shoved all of the information in our throat's without giving us a time to breathe) (which was over used in the show *literally*) was everyone having daddy issues in the show Instead of issues regarding the present of their story and it's extremely causing the whole series on HH and HB to look mundane and dull and down right annoying and frustrating (sometimes it might as well pisse off some people who understands the bad writing and terrible characters of the show) And let's not forget people will excuse the main characters flaws because she's "empowering" or " she's making change's" and whatever nonsense it's really giving off pretty white privilege excuse and bias (something similar that is happening in Helluva boss where blitzo is being treated like a villain and Stoliz as some uwu gay boy when *both* parties are equally bad,it jsut strains and makes the fan hate the ship with how Toxic it is) even if the show has good potential,the amount of total denial and excuse from both fan's and down right people who barely acknowledge or cares to understand the show in general would annoy the hell out of everyone elses opinions and criticism (at this point the show is failing itself and the only one's praising this show are the Fan's or artists who has better writing for the damn story)
The recasting is weird because the show had a HUGE fanbase already and you're more likely to piss those people off by replacing the current actors rather than draw new people in with a star studded cast. And, while vivzie might know the phrase "kill your darlings," she certainly doesn't know how to apply it. I actually think that's why pentious wasn't as poorly written as everyone else. He wasn't her darling.
@@jazzandghost Vivienne Medrano recasts the pilot cast because she wanted to become more popular by hiring the more popular and well known cast. You may not know this, but Sir Pentious is based on her old ex-friend and victim, DollCreep. 9 years ago, Vivienne Medrano encouraged her fans to cyberbully DollCreep on DevianrtArt to the point DollCreep had to be hospitalized. She then made a tweet saying "Karma is so awesome, aw man.
@@peachybunny1875 Sheesh,that might explain why her show is messed up,it might just be a reflection of her own self (not to be disrespectful or start a hate base,just my thoughts on her show and writing since it really can happen,some and a lot of small and we'll known authors often ended up portraying their personalities in thier stories which is fine but can be risky if not done right)..which Viv may have shown unintentionally or not in her own show
This is completely unrelated, but I love how people paint Lilith as a "girlboss" or "feminist" despite the evidence of her being Adam's wife is non-existent, but conveniently ignore the other part of her mythology where she's a serial grapist and an infant killer.
Ooof, i would fucking love it if we're introduced to her and she starts out as seemingly heroic, but later on she becomes more evil, it turns out shes basically like Mahito where she believes humans are inferior or morality is relative, something cool like that. I would LOVE to see how people react to that.
i had so much hope in both shows because their premises are really good, its just so disappointing seeing them realized this way. im still hoping that they'll somehow pull a big plot twist or smth that'll make it good but like it doesnt seem like that'll happen
Hazbin (and Helluva) is what happens when you fall in love with your characters, you turn it into Dora the explorer, which few adults enjoy. We all see Swiper, know the answers and realise the ending, boring, in other words. You don't have to involve, suffering or gore to speak to an adult audience but you DO need some intelligence behind it and be ready to twist a good person into evil or kill a child/puppy/or whatever is needed to carry the story. This is not easy but absolutely necessary or you'll get a bland story, like Hazbin.
So...what? How do you know the ending will be boring? And you're saying we need to see a godo person become evil or see a child pr puppy be killed for it to be adult? What happened to not needing to involve suffering or gore to speak to an adult audience? So is it necessary or not? Make up your mind. And how can you call the story bland when it's nowhere near finished really?
@@Jdudec367 I see you've missed my point. I shall be more clear. When you "fall in love" or "bond" with the characters you're creating, it makes it a lot harder to write an interesting story because you can't bear the thought of them dying or doing something bad with intent. This makes the characters very flat and your story one-dimensional, like stories for children, they are easy to predict and not engaging. "We all see Swiper, know the answers, and realise the ending, in other words, boring." I swept the last phrases to make it clearer. As you can see, I don't have an opinion on the ending in itself; the statement refers to the story as a whole. "[...] you DO need some intelligence behind it and be ready to twist a good person into evil or kill a child/puppy/or whatever is needed to carry the story." You need to do what's necessary to carry the story, killing in itself is irrelevant if the character isn't dear to the reader, death and horror do not equal a good story for adults, it's nothing but faint ambience if you feel nothing for those involved and that's exactly the point. For example: Stolas (Helluva) started as a powerful badass and entitled jerk with a deep love for his daughter. A very good and interesting start. Further on something changed, he can no longer have flaws so the reason for his cheating is mental abuse for 18 years in an arranged, loveless marriage. He got flipped 180 and is now a powerless victim with no self-esteem and nowhere to turn but Blitz, whom he somehow always loved yet treats other imps as furniture. Nothing in the story changed Stolas or revealed his true self, the *writer* changed and _that_ is bad writing. This is just a snippet of ONE example, I'm happy to talk about it more but since it's already an essay I'm ending it here. I hope that answered your questions.
@@TheLodjur So kill your darlings? Got it, not sure how that's relevant, it's only been one season and characters have already died. 1. Ok I see then. No nothing changed he still has flaws, and I mean...tbf that abuse was implied since episode 2 really....nothing changed with that, even then him cheating is portrayed as still hurting his daughter therefore he still messed up really. Eh no he still has flaws like with how he treats people he cares about like Blitz and Octavia for example, and we only see him treat one imp badly one time...not all of them. Wrong, the writer didn't change they just elaborated on his and Stella's past that isn't bad writing just because it didn't go how you personally wanted it to go. I mean I got answers but still that isn't bad writing.
Charlie is exceedingly ignorant throughout the entire show she literally brought crayon drawings to a meeting deciding the fate of millions which should be a uwu shes so cute i like her thing but instead makes her look idiotic the show also makes her seem incredibly sheltered not knowing about the majority of how hell works her "trauma" isnt anything at all she thinks rehabilitating sinners is as simple as boy scout trust excercises she literally gave money to cherri and told her to go to a club with an addict who shes "trying" to rehabilitate This ignorance also extends to emily whos probably the equivalent to charlie she literally calls sinners innocent souls somehow she cant gasp the simple concept that hell exists for a reason They have a horrid problem with double standards for example angel getting sa'd should be sad and we feel bad for him but with pentious its a shitty joke The pacing , many would argue its due to only 8 episodes being available for a full 1st season which i think is stupid either demand more episodes or just put less into the 1st season issues arise because of the 8 episodes given and vivzies ass writing like emily just immediately siding with hell instead of the place she was literally born and raised in It also struggles with giving any consequences to people and make bad people seem good for example lucifer caused pretty much the creation of evil but its ok because uwu hes just a depressed twink angel too were supposed to feel sympathetic for and like him which is impossible when hes annoying as shit and his trauma doesnt justify it Absoloutely nobody in the entire main cast is written well but at the very least they could have made them enjoyable but they couldnt even accomplish that for anybody except for alastor
It would have been interesting if Charlie brought the crayon drawings BECAUSE she din't have any other writing utensils on hand. Because someone at the hotel destroyed all the other writing stuff. That might have made her choice to show such drawings more understandable/reasonable.
@@DrawciaGleam02 o simplemente hubiera presentado el proyecto de una forma seria. Quizás una carpeta con los antecedentes y mejoras que van teniendo los residentes de su hotel (quizás, dada la personalidad de Charlie, decorada con varios stickers y dibujos). Digo, en un centro de Rehabilitación o en una sesión de terapia debe haber algo que registrado lo que tenga el paciente y el cómo va mejorando. Esto, la redención es un sistema complejo, no es un jardín de niños con actividades como los juegos, canciones y ejercicios de confianza como propone Charlie
i really wish that hazbin hotel was a good show 😭😭 the concept is kickass and the animation is gorgeous but.. the writing.... dear god the writing (ba bum tss!)
Honestly Hazbin hotel feels like an abridged watt pad AU version of the pilot. There probably was a draft somewhere on the writing floor that could've make for a good show but budget, an oppressive network, bad working conditions, and weird marketing decisions probably made directing the show a living nightmare, and in the end we got this unrecognizable mess. Like I'm sorry but you can't change a shows, art style, Voice actors, designs, and animation and not expect it to come of as jarring.
From analyzing Hazbin and seeing all the different takes of critics + fans alike, I've come to discover that many joke about the show's writing flaws chalking up to being "MLP in hell" or [insert kids cartoon here]. But the easiest way to describe this show's writing flaws are the "MLP" joke. It is a children's show geared towards adults, but appears more as something like MLP. MLP, but without any themes, goals, direction, character arcs, and without establishing any of the world's rules/logic. A... pointless, colorful fun fest is what you get when you take that away from MLP. I don't exactly get *why* an "adult" tv show is presented so childishly, but can't help but demand to be taken seriously. The fans might be able to, but I certainly can't. Though it has been helpful in learning what not to do when it comes to writing professionally! Lmao!
@@SodaFrizz666 🤣🤣🤣 "MLP in Hell" is crazy Good point! It does feel like a kids show... Take out the drugs, s*x, and swearing... That's kind of what you're left with....
They're way too obvious and open with this being an adult show. Like people are so quick to say "THiS iS nOT FoR KiDs!!" But the show's humor is, what some critics would say, "edgy kids finding out what slurs are". Like old cartoons literally had adult jokes in them that were easy to miss and clever at times, if not shocking to notice.
@@T_E_G The "This is not for kids" excuse is a cop out. I've seen kids shows that portrayed a lot more maturity.... Shoot even SpongeBob has clever adult jokes that I didn't catch until I was older!!!
Not to mention she has been encouraging atrocious behavior to her fans for years to the point they pushed Shay and two more fans to suicide over ships.
@@Stratoblast The HuskerDust shippers harassed Shay for liking RadioDust on December 2023 to the point Shay committed suicide. After that, Chaggie and RadioApple shippers harassed Charlastor fans this past October that they took their own life as well. One Charlastor fan was 18 while the other Charlastor fan was 20.
i don't hate the idea of heaven not exactly being perfect sounds compelling, but the point is that Heaven is better. It has a better structure and treats its own people with decency. Problem is, the show isn't really telling us that. Its more leaning onto "both are just as bad" and i feel like just breaks the whole premise. I do love this show, but i do wish they did things more differently. I feel like if they were given more episodes, things could've gone smoother. Or took the risk and tried to be slower with plot, not telling us more about heaven and focusing on the main characters.
@@XppleCutiie I feel like the whole "both sides are just as bad" thing would never work because one side is full of rapists and murderers while the other... Isn't.
@@guerreiroazul3230 Like I said before... This story could've benefitted from the 'bad guys' being correct. Have the angels have the moral high ground and when Charlie tries to challenge them, they clap back HARD with very good and even agreeable points.... But Vivzie wanted the angels to be evil so... No nuance for Hazbin Hotel.
@@OneClassicalLass Exactly, but unfortunately a character is only as smart as the writer, so because Vivzie couldn't think of an argument for Charlie to be wrong then the angels couldn't think of one either.
For me, part of the problem is that even when she learns that Heaven is bad and won't accept her idea, she still wants to redeem sinner to go to Heaven. Like, shouldn't you rethink your big idea there for a second?
Yeah, Season 4 Star, sadly, was a victim of very bad writing. She was completely different from how she'd been written in the rest of the show. And the finale was disastrous!
Something that doesn't get brought up much is the show hinges on an idiot plot. Angels can't die except to their own holy weapons, and the only reason he'll and Carmella specifically has access to sid holy weapons is because the angels just leave dozens of them behind after exterminations. If they didn't leave their weapons behind, the sinners couldn't reverse engineer the weapons to fight back, an angel wouldn't have died, and the exterminations wouldn't get moved up.
This is not necessarily stupid, the Angels simply leave their weapons behind because they believe that sinners will kill each other with them (and they were right).
It doesn't hinge on a idiot plot. They don't leave dozens of them behind it seems rare for that to happen. Maybe Carmilla took one at first or they lost one on accident?
Speaking as someone who was following the original pilot back when we all thought she'd be doing a "Dante's Inferno meets Black Butler" kind of story about the meaning of morality, the writing changes from pilot to tv show were expected, but man did it sting that she didn't go with her original story concepts...
She doesn’t understand morality. She wants to tell a story of how hypocritical heaven is without understanding the concept of good and evil. From the looks of it she has the pre school thinking. There is a difference between being “nice” and being good/holy.
Yeah, I also wished it was kept simple like in the pilot: Charlie and friends helped bad but not utterly irredeemable people and people who are misguided yet not unfixable and/or couldn’t redeem themselves when they wanted to in life, genuinely trying to help them in not only wanting to become better for the sake of it but also so that they don’t suffer for all of eternity in Hell. Also, Purgatory should’ve been introduced properly.
@@DanialTarkithat's the thing, I asked about it and apparently everyone and Viz said it doesn't exist because then hazbin would be redundant from my understanding. Which is funny as freak.
@@MrSophireI agree. Charlie is judging selfish hypocrite character too Charlie never ever listened to Vaggie only twice but that's all she is bad girlfriend to Vaggie and bad supporter Vaggie has only Charlie and had a past she wasn't proud of and was worried about losing her but instead of understanding Vaggie Charlie talked about herself to Alastor like it's her being betrayed by her girlfriend! She even didn't give at least Vaggie space to let her explain it! Yes if she would be only hurted alright but how acted was totally out of her character She even treated Vaggie as some kind of monster like she would be worse than all sinners Charlie was so cold at Vaggie When said clodly about angelic weapons: If you would know that would you tell me? She acted like Vaggie would be her enemy and a monster Yes they made it then but only cause of Rosie help and it doesn't change a fact how acted with Vaggie She never ever protected Vaggie when others disrespected Vaggie only once she tried to protect at the end but that's all she forces Vaggie in doing something she doesn't wanna do and if Vaggie does it it's only cause of Charlie but we can clearly see Vaggie sounded felt like she would be forced It most of the time seems like Charlie takes an advantage of Vaggie to do something what Charlie wanna Vaggie deserves better in my opinion Charlie is worst person character the facts I said I'll not repeat it it's already in answers In why Chaggie is toxic She made feel Angel dust like he wouldn't matter when was proud of Sir Pentious but seriously!? Angel dust stayed for free room yes but he wanna redeem himself he just hides it or something like that but Sir Pentious didn't wanna redemption at the first place before he wanted to betray them only! She didn't understand and respect Angels discomfort when Charlie came to his job cause of idiotic hotel! She was arrogant and even if ok she stayed but she wasn't quiet and was stupid enough to talk loudly to Travis about Hazbin Yes she said sorry but only cause how Angel dust screamed to Charlie it's with kids too when you scream at them and they cry and say sorry but don't know why but say sorry cause are screamed on And I know I'll repeat it again I'm sorry XD but she is toxic character she has trouble emotionally understanding the motivations and problems of other characters. - Self-reflection is missing, she only perceives her own one-sided view. - Empathy is rather superficial, she does not understand deeper human emotions. - Social interactions are difficult for her, she can't take a regard . - The world is divided into black and white, there is no complexity. even though she appears in the show as if she feels empathy like the pain of others but it's more superficial and it looks like she's focused on herself on her goal to change the demons end the extermination etc. Or about how others feel, for example sometimes Angel dust or sometimes mostly Vaggie and the other characters. Charlie is present with a selfish desire to pursue her dream at any cost without truly understanding the needs of others. Charlie is also selfish It was selfish of her how in the song Ready for this cannibals they sang about killing and how they will eat angels and Charlie just with a judgmental expression: ehh Well that's a little violent can we tone it down? Like what? Yes Charlie is a princess but that doesn't mean she can control their thinking as she wants. She was so judging than understanding. they like to be what they want and Charlie sounds so stupid she sounded like she didn't know they were cannibals. - The demons only sang about their natural nature as cannibals, which is their everyday reality. - But Charlie wanted to dictate to them how to limit their speech according to her taste. - At the same time, she clearly did not understand that for them, being a cannibal is their identity, which they are proud of. - Her rebuke seemed arrogant and she didn't understand their situation she is selfish some said she gives chances like she maybe gives a second chances but still make others feel not important did others how Angel felt?! Or Vaggie or Lucifer!? She doesn't listen what others want or their needs they have some they just wanna be the way they are - The fact that Charlie gives a second chance does not include her further actions and behavior and does not excuse her for the way she behaves. - As I said, she still does not listen to the needs of others and makes them less important. - She judges their true nature without understanding their situation, like as I said I'm Cannibal Town when Charlie started a war because Adam wanted to attack and the cannibals sang about how they would eat and kill angels. They were just happy and happy to be the way they are, but Charlie judged them: Ehh that's a little violent can we tone it down? Ughh they are little murder right now. It sounded like she didn't even know they were cannibals like hello Charlie didn't she realize clearly that cannibals would be murderous like this? (sorry but that was judgmental and toxic and selfish of her) she just wanted to direct them to suit her taste even though she is the princess she cannot control their behaviors or minds. -Moreover, some said that Charlie is giving a second chance, but she didn't give a chance to Adam before Nifty stabbed him and why didn't she give Lucifer a chance from the beginning? She called him for help just because she needed something and she didn't even want to call him because she thought he didn't want to see her while he was struggling with his depression. And then she judged him and said nonsense that: Why is Alastor here for me when my own father is not?) Like this was toxic selfish judgmental from her and she didn't give him a chance from the beginning. Charlia's words about Alastor in contrast to her father Lucifer were unempathetic and over the top. Even if she didn't know his true motives, she had no right to judge and compare him like that. - Lucifer wanted to protect her from danger, even if Charlie didn't know it. - He was struggling with his own problems and depression and it might have been too psychologically taxing to help her. - Alastor is a manipulator, his help was with a selfish intention, which she didn't notice, but she still knows Alastor's personality a little - She didn't take into account her father's emotional state and problems, she only focused on her own goals. (only then did she gave a chance to him, but she still judged him and didn't give him a chance at the beggining). Her words were inappropriate and showed her lack of empathy towards her own family. It was really over the line and out of line. She almost never apologized only some times but that's all And she is really hypocrite Alastor at the episodes 8 when was war between demons and angels exorcists and he protected hotel and main cast Adam hurted Al and Al disappeared but others didn't know it and thought he died Charlie didn't cry or anything she was like in the mind: Wow sad But when Sir Pentious protected them and died for them Charlie cried as a baby!! And even made portrait of him! But what about Alastor?!! Even if Alastor didn't protect them genuinely Charlie doesn't know it lol. Some people say she is really so empathic HA! She even didn't cry about Alastor Charlie and empathic?? It's rather superficial empathic! She doesn't wanna help others cause of joy or something like that She wanna help others cause she needs to or has to in order she would feel better about herself Charlie is hypocrite toxic judging and selfish
@@ShoukoNishimiya17 lo de Alastor me pegó profundo, más sabiendo la parte en la que canta solo en su torre dd radio destruida y teniendo un colapso mental mientras el resto canta feliz y ni se preocupan de que haya pasado con él
I find it funny that the most popular character in this show is adam ironically. Love him or hate him people talk about him alot. More then any other character i have seen. People were pissed that adam died out of nowhere and hope he comes back as a sinner. But vizie says hes not coming back which i feel like shes lying. Maybe adam wont be in season 2 but will appear again in season 3 or 4. If he doesnt appear at all then yea he was wasted character
@@NicholasSanchez-df7ls I feel like he should've been written differently, it felt like Vivzie just put stuff she hated into Adam's character and boom- Bad Guy.
The thing that kills me the most about this show is how there are just *so many seeds* of good ideas and concepts just absolutely jam packed into this show, but none of them are handled by the writers with any degree of finesse to make them compelling, as well as not taking what they had and actually making something coherent with the limited time they knew they had. Watching the show was an exercise in frustration because I could _see_ how some parts of the show could've been actually intriguing if they'd been handled with more care and more time, but as it is it just all feels like a waste. Everything worth a damn in this show is either underdeveloped, underutilized, or both at once.
Tbf I'm fairly certain the Story of hell in the intro was actually just propaganda cause if you look carefully the book has the name "L. Morningstar" so either Lucifer or Lilith could've fabricated the story to make themselves look good or at the very least exaggerated some parts.
I Feel Like Niffty Is Just There.. To Exist. I Know People Are Gonna Disagree With me probably. But Hear Me Out. She Kinda Doesn't Really Affect The Story At All. She Just Kills Adam, Which Lucifer Could Have Done at the moment already. Also she plays a little part in Angel's "Redemption" I guess? And last, Presumably being in a deal with Alastor. That's What I Have to say about Niffty. She's like this to me, At least for NOW. Also.. Is it just me or Emily feels like a self insert character? All Nice, Isn't mean, supports the main character, horrified at the extermination, Immadiately turns her back on her home, HEAVEN. I don't know.. Kinda seems like a Self-Insert Character To Me. I Swear This Is The Last Thing I Will Say. "If Hell is forever then Heaven must be a lie" Feels Like A Twitter Thing To Say. "If angels can do whatever and remain in the sky" I know They probably refer to Adam and the Exorcists but.. Like bruh, did Charlie Forgot who her dad is? That's all I have to say.
Humans: *Eat the Fruit of Knowledge, thus creating Hell and damning all of creation to be eternally corrupted by Sin* Lucifer: What can I say except "You're welcome", for the wonderful world that you know!
@@christopherbravo1813 and he still has the gall to lie to his dauther and HIMSELF, that he gave humanity "free will". I hust can't with this shit. No wonder adam wanted to kill himself in episode 8 if the angel's were this deep into nepotism. I mean, ffs, they gave him a kingdom to rule and his "wife"billions of souls and creatures to enslave
@@elmascapo6588 "You were the perfection of wisdom and beauty. You were in Eden, the garden of God. Your clothing was adorned with every precious stone - red carnelian, chrysolite, white moonstone, beryl, onyx, jasper, sapphire, turquoise, and emerald - all beautifully crafted for you and set in the finest gold. They were given to you on the day you were created. I ordained and anointed you as the mighty angelic guardian. You had access to the holy mountain of God and walked among the stones of fire. You were blameless in all you did from the day you were created until the day evil was found in you. Your great wealth filled you with violence, and you sinned. So I banished you from the mountain of God. I expelled you, O mighty guardian, from your place among the stones of fire. Your heart was filled with pride because of all your beauty. You corrupted your wisdom for the sake of your splendor. So I threw you to the earth and exposed you to the curious gaze of kings. You defiled your sanctuaries with your many sins and your dishonest trade. So I brought fire from within you, and it consumed you. I let it burn you to ashes on the ground in the sight of all who were watching. All who knew you are appalled at your fate. You have come to a terrible end, and you are no more"
A good point was brought up in this video. Vivzie probably didn’t even think about this but what about the victims of horrible crimes who now live in heaven? Many of the abusers of these victims are in hell but now they get to live in paradise because they’re “redeemed”? How is that fair to the victims? Vivzie probably didn’t think about this because she doesn’t think heaven is good and therefore no one in heaven could possibly be good or a victim of someone in hell.
@ that’s not what I said at all. I said that those who suffered at the hands of the sinners shouldn’t have to accept those same sinners getting to go to heaven because of some redemption that no one in the show even understands.
She did think about that actually. The people who change and go to heaven don't have to live in the same area as the victims though. She did think about this and no she does think heaven is good wdym? She didn't say Heaven as a whole is bad.
@ it’s not about people “living in the same area” it’s about people who spent their lives harming others getting to live in paradise at all. How would you feel if your murderer got to live in paradise because some pampered princess decided they deserved to?
My thoughts chaotic scrambled into a list: - What else does vaggie do outside of the hotel and charlie? -Is Nifty also owned by alastor? Howd that happen? -just overlords (tho as dark as it is i will say the whole Valentino/angel thing is probably some of the strongest writing) -the egg bois, i just wanna know where they came from -why do alastor and Lucifer hate each other? -why did Charlie create a hotel in the first place? -why doesnt charlie have wings? -this season has a lot to balance already they shouldve cut some characters out (Cherri bomb (they didnt need her to be the devil on angels shoulder, they are at a bar! Could've been angel battling between old habits and husk trying to make him stay on the path of redemption)Mimzy (honestly cant think of anything she did besides let lucifer making a point of sinners cant be redeemed when they have multiple main characters who have yet to be redeemed or are unlikely like alastor and nifty who are perfectly content) -Vaggie still speaks Spanish sometimes which feels like she was human before being an exterminator and we don't have evidence to prove thats not how it works) -why did they let Emily in the meeting when she wasnt supposed to know about the exterminations? -Carmilla and Vaggie? She WAS fighting for love, Vaggie literally does everything for charlie and its so unhealthy -Carmilla and Velvettes fight, carmilla had no other option but to fight back, hiding clearly wasn't working -why did eve eat the apple if she didn't have free will at that point? -alastor flip flopping between 'i could actually get used to these people' and 'im the puppeter', hes probably one of the most mysterious characters and one of the more poorly written characters -Husks bar, i know they point it out in the pilot but they also talk about trying to get everyone sober (angel) -Charlie sees how Valentino treats Angel and LETS him get away with it, i feel like it could've been a more powerful scene. I understand the whole Valentino/angel thing is for angel to overcome but shes THE PRINCESS i feel like she would have enough power to at the very least fight with valentino without angel intervening -why does the literal princess of hell feel so underpowered? I understand her not wanting to use it against people but her dad can literally fly, shapeshift, and create things, make portals. And all we know about Lilith is that shes also has a lot of influence, but none of that got passed down? All charlie can do is create fireworks, absorb stuff with her hand thing. I guess it makes it so she cant just mary sue her way out of things. -Charlie is selfish, hasnt thought her plans through, doesnt even know if they work, basically has a servent as her girlfriend who she cant do anything without, and gets super upset at her when things don't go right. -Adam being super sexist but has an army of only women? Treats Lute like shit but she loves him?? Did adam create the exterminators or are they all just angels who applied for the job cause the show makes it sound like adam created him -why did vaggie decide killing demons was wrong? She was raised in an environment where that was consider right and she was good at her job too but we never get a reason. -Vox's anatomy: Can he bathe? Does his face heal naturally or does he need a screen? Does he have a remote? Can you like turn down his volume or turn him off (quite literally) by pressing the buttons on the back? Can you watch a show on him when you don't have a TV?
Nifty is owned by Al it was shown in the pilot since could summon her just like could summon Husker and so on. Charlie created the hotel cause of she is narcissistic she did it for her emotional high I mean she has to help others to feel better about herself she didnt create it for altruistic intentions the show just tries to confuse you
Problem with the show is that Charlie is a Mary sue.she needs to be aware that not everyone can be redeemed.What I hate about the show is that it has a lot of plot holes.i heard that the show was forced into 8 episodes which I get kinda is a excuse.i feel like bring back adam and giving him a redemption arc would be good cause adam would be a challenge for Charlie and challenges her beliefs While we get to see why Adam is the way he is and maybe get a clue of where is eve or Cain and Abel.i love hazbin hotel and all the characters and show but I’m not like the fan base I can admit when my favorite show has a lot of problems.hazbin hotel is the type of the show where you’ll need to turn off your brain to enjoy….my fav is Adam.
@@ikebanayukari448 thx.I don’t see how people can hate Adam.Cool design? Check! Cool powers?check! Dad bod with a belly? Check!Good songs? Check! In fact he’s one of the few characters that have the potential of being good if Vizi brings him back I think one of two things should happen.He becomes a overlord or two he seems out redemption but she better not make Adam weak like I sure to god he better not drop from a Lilith threat level to a regular sinner.
gotta say I don't get the people who complain about the fact that your vid is lengthy. its incredibly well made and well researched and really highlights a lot of problems with this show.
Nope the show and creator makes her look like Mary sue but in reality she is selfish judging toxic manipulative narcisstic jerk which acts like is understanding but isn't and ignores other's feelings (just cares about her narcisstic view her dreams) even if she acts like she cares she only "cares" for people which wanna try her redeeming plan for example Sir Pentious (even if at first he faked it) why? Cause it feeds her ego she wants to feel better about herself!! She just uses others for her emotional high and never learns from mistakes only acts like she does. God even Blitz is far more better than her and he truly learns from mistakes and gets better
I’m a Christian and critiques like Hazbin hotel always baffles me. Like seriously she’s going to say all of hell is innocent like seriously you do know what kind of peoples of people end up to be here. Also as much as people like Angel as a character he was apparently in the mafia dude was not innocent at all. Charlie shouldn’t have been the main character because it takes away from the whole point of the show, you know redemption of a sinner!!!!!
Not to mention also Charlie should give redeeming plan and princess title to someone else for example Rachel gardner from angels of death anime she has trauma and little issues yes but is kind forgives and is understanding she would know they aren't innocent unlike Charlie which has weird view. She shouldn't exist since also she has narcisstic disorder and I can say why if you're wondering of course
Anyone who isn't christian ends up in hell, so no there are innocents here and even those that aren't don't deserve an infinite punishment for finites crimes no matter how big these crimes are
@@________4993 yes, non christians go to hell, that's the WHOLE POINT of christianity, that you need to be perfect to enter heaven but since everyone is a sinner no one can and we need jesus to pay for our sins so as soon as you're not christian you automatically go to hell, no you could try to make the argument that hell might not even exist in christianity since they make a big deal out of jesus's resurrection and that he said if you dom't follow him you die but if we assume hell exists then every non christian go to it
Those were actually metaphors of what they were trying to actually convey that people that sin aren’t what they seem to be, and sometimes winners cheat.
I've said before that I think Adam's characterization would work a lot better if it were applied to Samson-and if anyone is curious, I'd be more than willing to explain why-but I can think of another individual who would be *much* more effective antagonistic force towards anyone proclaiming the possibility of Hellions redeeming themselves. In fact, I can think of *seven* such individuals. While they aren't canon by any means, sources describe a group of Seven "Angels of Punishment" who, as their title implies, exist to deliver God's judgement upon those who violate His laws. Of these Angels, two in particular would make for an almost PERFECT antithesis to Charlie. The first of these is Kushiel. For one, his name literally means RIGID ONE OF GOD. His personality practically writes itself. Not to mention the fact that his sole purpose is *punishing sinners in Hell.* Imagine if Charlie burst into the meeting room with her crayon drawings, ready to explain her genius plan for redeeming Sinners, only to come face-to-face with a massive Archangel holding a literal whip of flames who is also personally responsible for introducing scores of condemned to a very literal world of pain. That being said, the second one might be even better- Raguel, described as the Archangel of Justice, Fairness, and Harmony. His specific purpose is to keep Demons from "overstepping their boundaries", and has even been equated with a sheriff or police officer in the way he carries out his duties. Not to mention, his name-which means "Friend of God"-would imply that he is VERY devoted to his Creator, and view the very *idea* of Sinners being redeemed after being consigned to Hell as an insult due to the implication that God was in the wrong for sending Sinners to Hell in the first place. Either one of these guys could work as being in charge of the Exterminations-Heck I think it'd be interesting if it was a team effort from all seven Angels of Punishment-and the fact that any one of them is capable of going toe-to-toe with Satan's top minions and possibly even coming out victorious would put pressure on Charlie to find a way to win against them on the *ideological* battleground rather than the *literal* one.
Raguel sounds like someone that, while would think Charlie's idea is noble (he IS the angel of Fairness and Justice), doesn't think it's realistically doable, so politely rejects it and tells her to leave instead of rudely throwing her out
love the video! charlie kills me as a protag. she's fun, very flawed, but they never let anyone who disagrees with her have a point ever. she would be so much better if anyone could actually have a different viewpoint than her on this redemption project and not just be 'bad' personally, i went thru something insane during episode 5 where they finally introduced a character that disagreed with charlie and was making sense and then just got rid of it. i wanted adam to give any kind of well crafted argument but they just made him bad, so i was looking for anything else. lucifer being the first character who actually seemingly disagreed with charlie while still caring about her was unfathomably interesting to me, especially since he has been there since the very beginning of hell. of any character in hell, he should know the most. i was so confused why hadn't she talked to her father before about this? the show SAYS she has daddy issues, but it shows me that if charlie calls, lucifer answers! he answers the first call she even puts through. and it implies he disagrees with her and her hotel, but when she asks him about it over the phone, he doesn't even remember it! it implies he's neglectful sure, but the show also implies it hasn't been open very long. the last time they talked was months ago, seemingly when she first opened the hotel at all. one would think she might call him more often to ask questions about this redemption plan of hers in the first place, since he's the best source of knowledge she has at her disposal - he's actually been to heaven and literally created sin, so he should have SOME insight - but its the "first time she's called [him] in months." it kills me so bad lol. charlie. please. PLEASE! people are dying and she's worried about a phone call lmao. they paint the disagreement as just an aspect of lucifer's neglect and charlie's family issues. that it is just a matter of him not knowing her, not speaking to her, not believing in her. but the actual thing they're arguing about is about the future of hell itself and the nature of sinners, which to me, is way more than just lucifer just needing to 'believe in charlie.' my parents believing in me is them coming to my dance recital. not them seeing im unprepared and no idea what i'm doing and letting me handle a diplomatic meeting between warring countries. you get what i mean? i dont know. its so small but it was just so aggravating that they actually introduced a character that had a different viewpoint than charlie and an understandable reason why - he was making POINTS. alastor was literally EATING PEOPLE IN GLEE. - and they just had him agree with her at the end of the episode. WHY! what did she do to convince him that sinners have potential??? that they're worth anything??? she showed him some hotel rooms and he barely interacted with any of the actual residents she was redeeming, and when he did, it was them being violent! they had a chance to show charlie's progress, have her present anything, prove to lucifer that these people are trying to change, and she doesn't. im sorry but i wouldnt give my daughter a meeting with heaven either? if she can barely convince her actual father, then how is she supposed to convince heaven? charlie thru out the show hears people disagree with her - people with years more experience in this than her, and she just ignores them entirely. just barrels through life convinced she must be right. sin of pride indeed
I mean they do let people who disagree with her have a point like with Lucifer and Sera. I mean they did that with Lucifer though. We have Sera at least instead of Adam. She didn't talk to him before this because he clearly doesn't support her dream and idea, he only answered now after many years of not trying to talk to her himself so why would she think he'd even answer? He doesn't remember it immediately but soon it becomes clear that he clearly disagrees with her and her hotel. Eh no it implied that they haven't talked in a very long time actually or at least a long while. Again why call him when he's clearly shown to not be interested in her plan or even her at all in a while? Again she had good reason not do it though. No they paint it as a matter of him straight up disagreeing with her plan. No it's that and him not thinking that the idea is possible at all. Yeah and it is more then just that but he should still give the idea a chance at least. She is prepared to do what she needs to do though and she has a idea of what she's doing. They are realms not countriws. She convinced him that they have potential and are worth something because well...look at them they aren't all monsters and people have changed before. Eh no what he saw wasn't them all being violent with people like Vaggie not being bad at all, so they weren't all irredeemable looking plus he can't just leave her alone with Alastor so there's that too. She does prove that they aren't all monster though and that they can change. She can convince her dad though. No she doesn't ignore them she proves them wrong. Nah she isn't completely confident but she has some confidence.
Star isn't inspiring, she's basically Hitler. She committed a genocide against magical creatures and most likely lead to massive human death when she violated earth so she could date her high school crush. She's the most selfish animated character of all time.
@@kylethomas9130Well Charlie from hazbin isn't better. Charlie is judging selfish hypocrite character too. Charlie never ever listened to Vaggie only twice but that's all she is bad girlfriend to Vaggie and bad supporter Vaggie has only Charlie and had a past she wasn't proud of and was worried about losing her but instead of understanding Vaggie Charlie talked about herself to Alastor like it's her being betrayed by her girlfriend! She even didn't give at least Vaggie space to let her explain it! Yes if she would be only hurted alright but how acted was totally out of her character She even treated Vaggie as some kind of monster like she would be worse than all sinners Charlie was so cold at Vaggie When said clodly about angelic weapons: If you would know that would you tell me? She acted like Vaggie would be her enemy and a monster Yes they made it then but only cause of Rosie help and it doesn't change a fact how acted with Vaggie She never ever protected Vaggie when others disrespected Vaggie only once she tried to protect at the end but that's all she forces Vaggie in doing something she doesn't wanna do and if Vaggie does it it's only cause of Charlie but we can clearly see Vaggie sounded felt like she would be forced It most of the time seems like Charlie takes an advantage of Vaggie to do something what Charlie wanna Vaggie deserves better in my opinion Charlie is worst person character the facts I said I'll not repeat it it's already in answers In why Chaggie is toxic She made feel Angel dust like he wouldn't matter when was proud of Sir Pentious but seriously!? Angel dust stayed for free room yes but he wanna redeem himself he just hides it or something like that but Sir Pentious didn't wanna redemption at the first place before he wanted to betray them only! She didn't understand and respect Angels discomfort when Charlie came to his job cause of idiotic hotel! She was arrogant and even if ok she stayed but she wasn't quiet and was stupid enough to talk loudly to Travis about Hazbin Yes she said sorry but only cause how Angel dust screamed to Charlie it's with kids too when you scream at them and they cry and say sorry but don't know why but say sorry cause are screamed on And I know I'll repeat it again I'm sorry XD but she is toxic character she has trouble emotionally understanding the motivations and problems of other characters. - Self-reflection is missing, she only perceives her own one-sided view. - Empathy is rather superficial, she does not understand deeper human emotions. - Social interactions are difficult for her, she can't take a regard . - The world is divided into black and white, there is no complexity. even though she appears in the show as if she feels empathy like the pain of others but it's more superficial and it looks like she's focused on herself on her goal to change the demons end the extermination etc. Or about how others feel, for example sometimes Angel dust or sometimes mostly Vaggie and the other characters. Charlie is present with a selfish desire to pursue her dream at any cost without truly understanding the needs of others. Charlie is also selfish It was selfish of her how in the song Ready for this cannibals they sang about killing and how they will eat angels and Charlie just with a judgmental expression: ehh Well that's a little violent can we tone it down? Like what? Yes Charlie is a princess but that doesn't mean she can control their thinking as she wants. She was so judging than understanding. they like to be what they want and Charlie sounds so stupid she sounded like she didn't know they were cannibals. - The demons only sang about their natural nature as cannibals, which is their everyday reality. - But Charlie wanted to dictate to them how to limit their speech according to her taste. - At the same time, she clearly did not understand that for them, being a cannibal is their identity, which they are proud of. - Her rebuke seemed arrogant and she didn't understand their situation she is selfish some said she gives chances like she maybe gives a second chances but still make others feel not important did others how Angel felt?! Or Vaggie or Lucifer!? She doesn't listen what others want or their needs they have some they just wanna be the way they are - The fact that Charlie gives a second chance does not include her further actions and behavior and does not excuse her for the way she behaves. - As I said, she still does not listen to the needs of others and makes them less important. - She judges their true nature without understanding their situation, like as I said I'm Cannibal Town when Charlie started a war because Adam wanted to attack and the cannibals sang about how they would eat and kill angels. They were just happy and happy to be the way they are, but Charlie judged them: Ehh that's a little violent can we tone it down? Ughh they are little murder right now. It sounded like she didn't even know they were cannibals like hello Charlie didn't she realize clearly that cannibals would be murderous like this? (sorry but that was judgmental and toxic and selfish of her) she just wanted to direct them to suit her taste even though she is the princess she cannot control their behaviors or minds. -Moreover, some said that Charlie is giving a second chance, but she didn't give a chance to Adam before Nifty stabbed him and why didn't she give Lucifer a chance from the beginning? She called him for help just because she needed something and she didn't even want to call him because she thought he didn't want to see her while he was struggling with his depression. And then she judged him and said nonsense that: Why is Alastor here for me when my own father is not?) Like this was toxic selfish judgmental from her and she didn't give him a chance from the beginning. Charlia's words about Alastor in contrast to her father Lucifer were unempathetic and over the top. Even if she didn't know his true motives, she had no right to judge and compare him like that. - Lucifer wanted to protect her from danger, even if Charlie didn't know it. - He was struggling with his own problems and depression and it might have been too psychologically taxing to help her. - Alastor is a manipulator, his help was with a selfish intention, which she didn't notice, but she still knows Alastor's personality a little - She didn't take into account her father's emotional state and problems, she only focused on her own goals. (only then did she gave a chance to him, but she still judged him and didn't give him a chance at the beggining). Her words were inappropriate and showed her lack of empathy towards her own family. It was really over the line and out of line. She almost never apologized only some times but that's all And she is really hypocrite Alastor at the episodes 8 when was war between demons and angels exorcists and he protected hotel and main cast Adam hurted Al and Al disappeared but others didn't know it and thought he died Charlie didn't cry or anything she was like in the mind: Wow sad But when Sir Pentious protected them and died for them Charlie cried as a baby!! And even made portrait of him! But what about Alastor?!! Even if Alastor didn't protect them genuinely Charlie doesn't know it lol. Some people say she is really so empathic HA! She even didn't cry about Alastor Charlie and empathic?? It's rather superficial empathic! She doesn't wanna help others cause of joy or something like that She wanna help others cause she needs to or has to in order she would feel better about herself Charlie is hypocrite toxic judging and selfish.
Another problem I have is how Charlie does a terrible job at redeeming sinners. She could easily stop Angel dust from doing adult film since her father is the ruler of hell and she’s more powerful than Valentino.
It's cause she helps people or tries to help people to feed her ego she is narcisstic that's why she does terrible job at redeeming demons. 😂 But I agree with you! But people justify Charlie bruh
unless the soul contracts are absolute and the problem is more than just using force to remove the opposition. We don't know the intricacies of how far the contracts go. Just that signing your soul away means you lose your autonomy
@@sailorstar3148 Bro it says the right one which doesn't know what is narcissistic disorder XD rather you study that before youll retalk my argument by your weak arguments alright? Cause I know anything about narcissistic I can even tell you and then we can analyse Charlie and narcisstic disorder mmm? Alright? I'm wondering if you'll shout after XD
I can name a lot of the problems I have, as a fan of Hazbin Pilot (and I mean it, I have been a fan for as long as I remember) and a Roman Catholic Watching Hazbin Hotel Pilot has some interesting worldbuildings and plots, that can be changed or could be maintained for another upcoming episode. The beginning shows us Charlie’s perspective as a witness of an endless purge caused by the extermination, and we get to see that she was saddened by it and she needed to do something to solve the issue (In Pilot, the issue is that the extermination happened to quell the overpopulation issue in hell, which I would count as some necessary evil in their part), then we have established characters; Angel Dust, Alastor, Husk, Nifty, Vaggie, Cherri, Sir Pentious, you can name a few, although only a little characters were the first spotlight in the Pilot. I can see Charlie succeeding in redeeming and helping Angel Dust to overcome his own mistakes in life, as it is one of the solution countering the overpopulation, and I really do care if she will succeed or not. I wanted her to acknowledge some errors and mistakes she did and should not be afraid to learn from it, and also, learn from Vaggie’s advice and others. I know Vaggie is sidelined because Alastor does somethimg to help the hotel, but she deserves the spotlight, too. But then, the show happened, it made a complete turn on the whole plot, and disregards the theme of Redemption and made it into Heaven vs Hell. This theme upsets me because it is redundant. Charlie wasn’t mature in this show anymore, but was more of childish Mary Sue whose sinners and all other characters should be in her favor, no disagreements, no wrongs, and anyone who is opposite to her is considered the enemy. This is not the correct way to write a main character of the story, there should be arcs, meet the challenges and obstacles and overcome them to achieve their goals, not this type. I started disliking Charlie for what she did to Angel Dust, and it’s sad that she is nit helping Angel Dust overcome his own past mistakes; the worst thing is Vaggie blames it and pins it on Husk to apologize to Angel Dust, instead of Charlie becoming the mediator of these two. I want to like Hazbin Hotel, but the writing and worldbuilding problems and how the whole Critiquing of the Christianity felt butchered from the way the Heaven and Hell is presented. I am fine with the moral ambiguity of Heaven and Hell, but not the Heaven is evil trope (the reason is what’s the point if both of them are evil, where can I go then?) ‘Those sinners are innocent!’ - Excuse me, does that mean you are condoning evil people to go to Heaven and make the victims suffer all the time? Bad choice of words, Emily! The victims will hate you for that. It sucks that I have rooted for her to succeed from the Pilot, but she became wasted for much more of deflecting much advices and criticisms.
Well... Charlie was already horribly agnorant from the pilot. Why? I'll tell you (btw it will be long so be careful) The two (Charlie and Vaggie) have obviously known each other for a long time, with Vaggie even saying she’ll help her out when she makes her speech. Charlie is instead, annoyed rather, not really wanting to stick to their supposed plan and spice things up a bit with a song. It is understandable that Charlie would want to do something like this, of course it fits her personality and her character flaws, but this particular scene is our introduction to how Charlie doesn’t necessarily LISTEN to Vaggie. While we see that the two clearly care for one another, Charlie is clearly more interested in doing things her way, even after she said she wouldn’t sing when Vaggie begged her not to and to just go over their script. Now the immediate thing I want to say is no, I’m not saying Charlie should listen to Vaggie 24/7. Charlie is obviously her OWN person and can do whatever she wants, but we all know how air-headed and blind she is, she’s not necessarily SMART like Vaggie is. If she was, she would have did what her and Vaggie went over instead of going off script, wether wanting to spice things up or not. Speaking of that, we all knew this was coming, Charlie ends up singing indeed, with Vaggie facepalming all the way through. You can tell that stuff like this has happened before, it’s why Vaggie is somewhat controlling because Charlie doesn’t always make the best decisions. There’s nothing I can say that anyone else hasn’t already said here. Charlie should have just listened to Vaggie, and by not doing so, she made herself look like a fool on front of all of Hell, so moving on. Before we get to the limo scene, I want to say what happened after the crowd laughed at Charlie. I disliked how Charlie didn’t even MENTION how Vaggie was helping her. She’s quick to brag about Angel, a famous porn star who doesn’t even believe in her cause nor give a shit about her, but not the person she’s known for so long, has her back 24/7, helps her out, and genuinely cares about her??? And if she didn’t want to mention Vaggie directly, fine, but at least say “I have someone amazing helping me” or “there’s already a person who believes in me” SOMETHING like that to at least show that she freaking APPRECIATES her. I don’t care if it had to do with Angel as a patron or had to do with clients at the hotel, all I wish she would have done was acknowledge Vaggie’s existence. But no, much like Viv herself, she doesn’t acknowledge Vaggie. With that said, let’s get to the limo scene. Of course, this scene is just infuriating to watch for me because not ONCE does Charlie stick up for Vaggie, or even HERSELF for that matter. After they pick up Angel, Vaggie gets on his case about what he did, and Angel clearly doesn’t care, laughing and joking about all of this, and jabbing at them both and the project. Since Charlie is uwu sad from the fiasco at the news station, she sulks like a child the entire time while this ugly candy cane constantly insults and ridicules her girlfriend. Now before people come at me, yes, I KNOW Vaggie is a full grown adult and isn’t some damsel in distress, she’s perfectly capable of standing up for herself. However, it just bothers me that Charlie doesn’t do or say shit, Angel even flat out calls her a bitch and Charlie just sits there, hell, there’s literally a shot of Charlie SMILING for some reason while Vaggie is pissed. These two are supposed to be GIRLFRIENDS, yet not only does Charlie just sit there and take the bullshit Angel gives her, but she doesn’t even correct or discipline Angel for his shitty actions towards her partner. Once again, it’s so funny that Viv tries to showcase how Charlie “knows she’s in hell” and can take care of herself, yet here she just lets Angel ridicule her and Vaggie, someone who THEIR housing with THIER money. Charlie only gets one line to react to this whole thing, which is “That was really uncool you know Angel”- and that’s it. No “you’re not going to talk to us that way”, no “you’re going to timeout”, no “don’t speak to vaggie that way” none of that. I mention the whole “time out” thing because Viv has stated that that’s how she would discipline misbehaved demons, yet here she doesn’t do anything for Angel. She’s just proving to him that he can do whatever the hell he wants with no consequences, and that he can continue to fuck with Vaggie without her saying anything. Some girlfriend she is. So, I want to mention one more thing before we get to the clusterfuck that is Alastor, but I think some people might see this and say “Well maybe Charlie was too vulnerable in this scene to do anything”- and to that I say, yeah, she was in the beginning, but literally after Angel asks for the liquor, she’s sitting up and listening instead of curling up in a ball and pouting like she was in the beginning of the scene. Even her lame line she said about Angel shows that she was capable of putting her foot down, yet since she’s too childish, she didn’t. I also understand that you could say she probably didn’t want to jab at Angel because she’s trying to be kind to all demons to help them better, but telling Angel to knock it off isn’t that hard. It’s so funny because this scene kinda showcases how Vaggie is more of the one who’s actually putting in the work for this hotel and cares, while Charlie just sits back and acts dimwitted. She’s the one in charge of this whole thing, it should have been HER talking to Angel, not Vaggie. So finally, let’s get to when ALASTOR arrives. Whoo boy. Once Alastor enters the picture, everyone kinda just ignores Vaggie. She’s pushed to the side, and when she TRIES to speak and voice her concerns, nobody listens to her. Let’s start at the beginning though. When Al knocks on the door, Vaggie says to not let Alastor in because they both know he’s dangerous (even though Charlie’s more powerful than him so I don’t know why she’s so afraid) but she doesn’t listen and let’s him in. I obviously don’t have a problem with that, what I DO have a problem with is Alastor constantly harassing Vaggie RIGHT IN FRONT of Charlie, while she just stares there blankly. Throughout the rest of the pilot, Alastor is constantly pushing Vaggie to the side, shoving her away, or even outright assaulting her, and the ENTIRE time, Charlie is either blind and doesn’t notice, or is watching this unfold with her OWN eyes and doesn’t do shit. She’s either too distracted by Al, or blatantly watches this asshat push her friend around, just letting it happen. Oh I’m sorry, not just Alastor, but ANGEL as well. If the limo scene wasn’t enough, once Al brings the bar in for Husk, Vaggie protests but Angel literally TACKLES HER TO THE DAMN GROUND, putting his hands on her and telling her to shut up RIGHT IN FRONT OF CHARLIE. And what does Charlie do? Nothing. It’s not even Angel’s fucking CALL to have a bar in a hotel, he’s not the one in charge, Charlie is, and yet she just goes with it and doesn’t say shit to him about pushing Vaggie to the side. It’s fucking ridiculous how all of this shit is happening right in front of her face, yet she doesn’t do or say anything. So of course, let’s talk about the scene where Vaggie pulls Charlie to the side and talks to her. Charlie does bring up a valid reason to let him help because if she didn’t it would be going against what she believes in, but she says she can take care of herself when.....well she’s literally done nothing BUT prove to everyone that they can walk all over her but whatever. The part that’s important is that Charlie for fucking ONCE actually listens to Vaggie and doesn’t make a deal with Al. I’m actually AMAZED, but still....that doesn’t let Charlie off the hook at all. Not only does she not do shit when the other characters push her friend around and treat her like garbage, but once Al wins her over, she’s so blind to notice how WORRIED and upset Vaggie is. Vaggie throughout Alastor’s song is constantly trying to get to Charlie but Al purposely pulls her away, and you feel so fucking bad for her because Charlie doesn’t even NOTICE! It’s disgusting how much of a PUNCHING bag character Vaggie is, just like Moxxie from Helluva Boss. It also hurts that even BEFORE Al came, Charlie never listened to Vaggie anyway, but now that this big powerful helping demon has entered the picture, she sure as hell won’t now. I SWEAR, Charlie is one of those characters where if you were Vaggie and said Alastor did something out of pocket, she would just go “Oh just go with it” or “oh it’s not THAT bad”. And here’s the thing. To wrap this all up, I KNOW that Charlie is naive, I KNOW that she can make her own decisions when you get to it without Vaggie, but the reason why I truly think she’s a bad girlfriend even in the pilot is just that she simply doesn’t support Vaggie in the same way Vaggie supports HER. Vaggie will always be by Charlie’s side, but Charlie is just too blind and stupid to care about what Vaggie says, or even take into CONSIDERATION what she says. She didn’t listen to her about the singing, she didn’t stick by her side when Angel ridiculed her, and she didn’t do anything when Al pushed her around. She may be caring, but she doesn’t support her, stand by her side, stick up for her, or do ANYTHING to help her the way vaggie helps her. From Charlie’s perspective, I GUESS you could say she’s just so happy that Al is making her dream a reality, but I’m sorry, I just feel so bad for Vaggie. VAGGIE..👏....DESERVES...👏.....BETTER. 👏 But I agree Charlie wasn't so bad as she is in the series well she was but in the series it's so worse
Loser is not about being terrible.It's about suffering, Angel was abused by Valentino, his soul owned by him. When he returned back to the hotel, he puts on a mask, covering who he really is. Husk was saying, don't think your the ownly one, there are others like you and they completely understand.
@@MsHood1986 yeah another TH-cam covered the song by itself and the true meaning of the song is like “boohoo you’re life is so hard, well tough love sweetheart, you’re not special in that regard . Everyone’s life is hard.”
For me, the whole song feels like it’s saying “Your life is shit, and nothing will change that, so just accept it. But hey, at least you have people to trauma-bond with!” I get that wasn’t the intention, but I don’t know how to interpret it any other way.
@@toastysweaters5692 and to be fair isn’t that the point of art that it can be interpreted in different ways. A certain work could mean something else to someone. For example Disney’s original Pete’s Dragon most people who watch see it as a corny film, for me I think Elliot the dragon is a supernatural element to aid kids in trauma kind of like Matilda’s telekinesis abilities in Matilda. To explain my point on Elliot we know that Pete was horribly abused by the Gogins and Elliot came and rescue him. He shadows him to both protect him from those who would harm him (like pushing the egg seller who kicked Pete) as well as trying to put a smile on his face (the tic tac toe in the cave, him copying Pete in town, messing around before completely disappearing, etc) he is only comfortable leaving Pete once he knew he was safe and in loving environment in order to save the next kid that was in trouble. I could be reading the film too deep but that was my interpretation of it. So your interpretation of Loser could be as equally valid
VivziPop’s argument for why the characters swear so much is because according to her she’s been around people who swear all the time so therefore it’s natural to her. So what about people who don’t swear or swear occasionally? Are they not natural too? I know people on both sides yet to her only people who swear like a cussing dictionary are real to her. Her excuse is so weak and unfounded. EDIT: Just to be clear, I have nothing against characters swearing in films and movies, but it’s way too excessive and childlike here.
I mean not all the characters swear a lot in the show so I don't see the issue really. Eh no not all characters swear like a cussing dictionary? How is it? It's accurate to real life. How is too excessive or childlike? Peope do swear like that irl.
@@Jdudec367 You’ve missed the entire point of my argument. Firstly, I didn’t say all the characters swore, I said I know people who swear like a cussing dictionary. So yeah, you just pulled a strawman fallacy. Regardless it’s still very excessive. Secondly, how is it what? Be clear, your point and wording isn’t the best so I don’t know which part of my comment you’re getting to. How is it bad you might be asking? Because too much and this excessively just makes the movie so childish and immature. Yes it’s natural to swear, but it’s also natural not to swear. Are you suggesting that someone who is able to control their swearing, or at the very least swear minimally is so unnatural and so obscene? My point is saying “swearing is natural” is a moot point because other people can learn not to swear and control themselves. The only people who swear so much are either kids, angsty teens and rude people. It is excessive and childlike. Stop trying to pretend it is. But why is it chidlike you may ask? Because what mature adult swears 10000 times a day and for no reason? Most people swear out of anger or when they exaggerate something or as a joke. Rarely in everyday sentences and for no reason. The ones that do are probably either very immature or on something. Why would you want to swear all the time? Think about it? Who, when and why would swear constantly? It’s not actually natural. TLDR: you missed the point, it’s not the swearing that’s unnatural, it’s the amount of times, yes it’s excessive and yes it is childlike and no natural person swears 10000 times a day and for no reason.
@@Jdudec367 And before you say “waaaah it’s he’ll get over it” I don’t care. That’s a redundant point to excuse criticism. There are people who swear a lot and there are people who rarely swear. Both are natural but it is not natural to randomly throw swear words for no reason and in random places.
@@ulfberht4431 I really didn't miss the point of your argument at all. "yet to her only people who swear like a cussing dictionary are real to her" That's what you said implying that Vivzie only made characters that swear a lot, so no I didn't pull a strawman fallacy, I'm using YOUR words and logic you used here don't back peddle on that. How is it that excessive or unrealistic? How is her reasoning weak and unfounded? That's what I mean. Again HOW is it too much or excessive or makes it childish and immature? Not everyone swears a lot and those that do stay consistent with that, just like people in real life, like I started playing GTA 5 lately and a lot of characters swear a lot there but I don't see anyone calling the writing childish or immature. No I'm NOT suggesting that someone who is able to control their swearing and swear minimally is so unnatural and so obscene, where would you get that idea? Cause you pulled that idea out of thin air. It's not a moot point because again many people swear a lot actually. That's just not true and to think that shows your flawed and limited understanding of how people talk, many who swear a lot aren't kids, angsty teens or are rude, I know that mself, one of the nicest coolest person I know swears a lot but they aren't a teen anmore or are rude, a lil edgy yeah but not rude or seriously angst, they are actually prretty chill and down to earth. It isn't that excessive or childlike. I'm not pretending anything. No character in the show wears 10000 times a day either lmao. No many swear casually too actually. I mean at times they may in everyday sentence at times if just for emphasis. Or they are neither immature or on something , to blinldy assume either of that is ironically immature of you to do. No one literally swears all the time. But many swear casually. And no it is natural, hell some people even use eslurs casually too, try not to get a heart attack at that idea if a normal adult merely swearing a lot is unfathomable to you. No I did miss the point the point just isn't good, again the amount mostly isn't that bad usually, no it's not that excessive and no it isn't childlike and yeah no one in the show swears 10000 times a day and for no reason.
@@ulfberht4431 Well that's not my point lol I actually counter what you argue. Yeah and no one randomly throw swear words for no reason and in random places in the show either.
In my personal opinion, Introducing Lucifer(at least in S1) Was the worst decision they could’ve made for Charlie’s character. Like all of the character moments Charlie could’ve had(like defeating or more like fighting with him head to head Adam)were all given to him. And that could’ve been the biggest sign of growth for her. And I also wish they kept Lucifer and Charlie making up saved for season 2. Especially since apparently Lilith won’t even be introduced yet. Another thing, for season 1 I wish they kept Lucifer be portrayed the same way he was in the pilot. At least for that season. Don’t think either are terrible characters, but there definitely could’ve been things handled better with writing and pacing.
Well. . . actually, Lucifer was never really in the pilot. Just some background portraits and a split second silhouetted background shot of him with no speaking lines whatsoever. Saying things like "how he was in the pilot" honestly doesn't make any sense. Because the audience knew next to nothing about what kind of character he was, people were just making assumptions about what he's like, and weren't happy when he didn't fit that long ingrained headcannon. I also have to disagree with leaving Lucifer for season 2, because I feel the first two seasons would have been an appropriate amount of time for him and Charlie to work out their disagreements on sinners and redemption, and eventually come to an understanding at the end of a second season and become closer. Besides, in the show proper, Lucifer only shows up for a measly two episodes, so how is him being there in any way bad for Charlie's character? That really doesn't make any sense. If anything, the problem was the exact opposite, as he didn't show up nearly enough for us to see more of their differing ideas on redemption, see how they could have challenged each others viewpoints, and how they could have both been correct and incorrect about sinners in general, and both gain good character development from that. Then their reconciliation would have felt more rewarding and earned. I do feel they made Charlie too much in the right between her and Lucifer, especially since Lucifer would obviously know way more about sinners, Heaven and Hell than her. Being wrong about certain things and learning valuable lessons about people from her dad would have actually been good for her character development. And he could learn valuable lessons about people from her too, and also gain good development from that. Just some huge missed opportunities. (More Than Anything is still a gorgeous song though) I also have to heavily disagree on the "Charlie should've been the one to fight Adam" thing, because keep in mind, while Charlie does have the potential to be very powerful, she has next to no fighting experience whatsoever, as she'd rather help and become friends with people, and only starts to get physical when sufficiently pushed, and even then she doesn't know how to actually fight. And she's clearly lived a sheltered and pampered life for living in Hell. If you actually pay attention to Charlie in the final fight, you can see she was mostly fighting defensively, not offensively. At least until Sir Pentious was "killed", and we all know how well that turned out for her. Especially since Adam has way more combat experience than her, she never would have stood a chance. Now compare that to Lucifer, who is way more powerful than Charlie, and has thousands of years of experience ahead of her, and the grudge he and Adam would have with each other for obvious reasons.(albeit, they didn't highlight that very well, which was a huge missed opportunity, as an Adam and Lucifer rivalry would have made so much more sense and been more plot relevant than the stupid, unfunny thing with him and Alastor that came out of nowhere and made no sense) And since Adam broke his end of the deal about Hellborns not getting hurt during the extermination (which again, I wish they had made that more clear when Lucifer showed up at the battle) It HAD to be Lucifer vs. Adam. I also really hate how viewers seriously think an obviously inexperienced female character needing to be saved by someone stronger and more experienced than her, especially when that someone is a parental figure, is "detrimental" to her, or somehow makes her "weak". Especially so early in the show since all we have is a short 8 episode first season. It shouldn't even matter that it was a man who saved her. I just never liked that sentiment. Suddenly being able to fight and defeat someone who is obviously stronger is NOT what makes a female character "strong". Especially since this is a toxic sentiment I've been seeing more and more these days. And this doesn't just apply to Hazbin by the way. She should at least be given some time to gain more experience and learn to hold her own in a fight. If she still needs saving from bad situations on and on again as the show goes on, or Lucifer is continuously used as an easy fix for her problems, then I feel that criticism will become valid. I'm really sorry that this was pretty long by the way.
@@priscillapineda3204 Thanks for the response, but I never said Charlie was “weak” I just said HER defeating Adam would’ve been a good sign of character growth since the two of them were often shown on opposing sides. On top of that, we’ve seen more of Charlie and Adam then of Lucifer and Adam. So it just would’ve been more rewarding to see. And I’m very much aware Lucifer had no speaking lines. I was referring to how he was portrayed. In a lot of the shots they show his shadow as this powerful figure(which is why a lot of fans thought he would be evil at first). And I don’t think it was a terrible Idea for him to be introduced story wise. I said it was BAD FOR CHARLIE’S CHARACTER. More so her development. Charlie is a very confusing character because they never clearly explain why she wants to do this. You could say it’s because of her father but he was directly opposed to the idea and was kept away from Charlie. She could’ve definitely been inspired by her mother, but who knows how keen Lilith was of the idea.
@@priscillapineda3204 Also a lot of the depth she was implied to have especially regarding her childhood, was kind thrown out the window when her and her dad made up in one episode. If you’re wondering what I’m referring to, I’m talking about the phone call Charlie had with her mom in the pilot and she says “Maybe dad was right about me” which maybe says Lucifer wasn’t entirely keen on Charlie’s ideas and was hard on her, which is why I said “he was different from the pilot” or at least how people thought he was. The revealed him to be a nurturing parent who’s just worried for his daughter’s safety. Which there is nothing wrong with. But I feel like it robs Charlie and Lucifer from having way more interesting characters and dynamics. I actually am EXTREMELY similar to Charlie. So it would’ve been nice if they didn’t make up in one episode, because seeing Charlie’s “daddy issues” or knowing she had them was really healing for me. And I am by no means calling the show bad, or calling the characters bad, or saying it should’ve changed or went another way. This is just my opinion and my projections and observations. Basically what I’m saying is that people thought Lucifer wouldn’t have agreed with Charlie’s plans because he was evil, not because he was concerned for her. And I’m not saying the characterization they gave him in the show as wrong, but I wish they handled it in a more fulfilling way and giving their dynamic more depth. Some of the depth they were implied to have in the pilot.
I disagree that wasn't that bad really. I mean...she did help fight Adam though. I mean he is the same from the pilot, he didn't believe in her at first.
@@Jdudec367 Can you elaborate? And if you’re referring to Lucifer when you said “he is the same from the pilot” note that I am talking about HOW PEOPLE(IN THE FANDOM)PERCEIVED LUCIFER. They thought Lucifer would be evil and more hard on Charlie based on some of Charlie’s dialogue and how they would always show him during the pilot as this mysterious power shadow(hence when he was towering over Charlie in the “Always Chasing Rainbows” song when Charlie says “Why have I always been a failure?” Also alluding to the fact that she has been told that from her father. And during the pilot it seemed to be a common theme with Charlie’s character about her “being a failure” and that honestly would’ve been a really good character detail if they had kept that up with Charlie in the show. Since a lot of people believe her character to be boring.
Why are you so smart???? Like you have such a deep understanding of religion and good/bad writing. I agree with almost everything you say! I love your point that you can’t judge something you don’t understand based on seeing someone do it poorly.
Hot take (based on general opinions): I dislikes Charlie the most. Vaggie annoys me the most. Sera, Lucifer and angels in high position are pathetic. Alastor doesn't impress nor intimidate me like the pilot and that let me down so much. Husk, Lute and Adam are tolerable and likable to me because one is level-headed, acts reasonable like an adult while I really enjoy the others' song and bashing on MC. The hell and heaven system is shit.
I agree with you. But about Alastor they are totally the same I mean personalities. Just in the show his intentions and act are more extended than in the pilot that's why. I prefer so much more Al than Charlie 😂
@@Pomeranian690 Same about prefering Alastor. I just feel like the way he showcases himself in the show is more on "all bark no bite" side. Like I don't see the process of his evil doing that much nor threatening when every of his reputation is only tell not show.
@Bluegleam It's shown he is evil psychopath without redeeming qualities but I agree it wasn't too much shown at the show it's cause if Vivzie would do that all people would probably find out that and realize Alastor is evil psychopath with no redeeming qualities. And Vivzie probably doesn't want that or I don't know
@@Pomeranian690 ok how about we don't use that word, let me be clear i'm not psychologist but psychopath sociopath is disorder and linked them to being evil is ableist. There are people who have this disorder they don't feel other human emotion like guilt sympathy empathy etc it didn't make them a monster. Their brain just have different way to work let me tell you something people who can feel sympathy empathy guilt remorse they are capable of being horrible person. I do agree he doesn't have any redeeming quality but please don't be ableist
@evanderzufarsetiawan2511 I'm not saying all psychopaths or sociopaths are evil and that are monsters I never saw them as monsters I only say Alastor is evil psychopath. And still I love this character. Not to mention my boyfriend is evil and psychopath and I love him the way he is and I dont say he is a monster. So I don't judge people with psychopathy or sociopathy. But still thanks to point it out but I know not all people with these conditions are evil and that aren't monsters ❤
I have been to old for this cartoon even back when it was first on TH-cam. So I had literally only watched the pilot once. But it didn't hit me back then that the Lesbian couples names are Charlie and Vaggie. A gender neutral but masculine leaning name. And one that sounds like female genitalia. This would have been clever. In the late 80s. Now it is like a brick to the face. Also I judge "to old" not by age specifically. But instead by if the thing I am experiencing is new enough to me to be interesting. This show would have being interesting to me in 2012 and down right original to me in 2008. But I had seen or thought of things like this long before 2019.
I would say that doesn't mean you are too old, just you are very aware and the thing doesn't bring something new. When it comes to shows, you are almost never too old for it. I think it is more wisdom and possibly change of taste. But yeah there is no subtly here for the imagination.
The reason she’s named vaggie is actually bc she was an angel (suprised) named by THE Adam himself. In the show he’s a womanizing POS. Hope that clears it up
Names are just names. They went with them because they sounded cool. They're not necessarily trying to make a statement but maybe Vaggie they are. Guys are named Dick
For me, the moral grey area in the concept of hell has never been whether or not people who've done horrific crimes deserve to be punished for it. It's the unilateral application of eternal damnation as a punishment for everyone regardless of the severity of the crime. Everybody knows sex traffickers are bad people who probably should go to hell, but is the lesbian couple next door _really_ equally guilty? If the story was meant to explore the concept of moral gray areas it shouldn't have focused on extreme cases and instead focused on the everyday people who get marginalized by Christianity and it's effects on social politics. That would certainly justify the idea that heaven is too judgemental. By focusing on Charlie trying to "redeem sinners" it's only further reinforcing the social constructs it's aiming to deconstruct. She's also unilaterally applying her morals to all sinners which paints them all in the same light despite the fact that there is a difference. Unless the idea is that Charlie's ambitions are meant to be a parody of Christ, but given the show seems to be unwilling to challenge her mindset, I'm not too sure that was the intent.
Aside from the dilemma that the Christian community has had for ages over deciding which parts of the language around hell are literal and which are metaphorical, one interesting thing I can note is that Jesus directly addressed this grey area of punishment versus crime. In the book of Luke, chapter 12, Jesus uses a parable (stories often using similes to parallel real truths) about a man’s household of servants. A servant who abuses his fellow workers is given capital punishment; another servant who abuses no one but knowingly defies instructions receives many lashings; and a servant who did not know precisely what he was assigned to do, but did inappropriate things regardless, receives very few lashings. This is presumably where many Christians derive the idea of “circles” or “layers” of hell. So whatever a sexually promiscuous but otherwise decent person faces in hell (which, in fact, is NOT because of their sexual immorality, but rather for not seeking relationship with the Messiah, their Creator), is never going to reach the levels of absolute punishment for those who do evil deeds toward others. p.s. Edgeworth pfp is a chad move, much respect
@@marche800 That is a completely fair question to ask about hell. And, in short, my answer would be that the idea of everyone receiving equal punishment simply is a false assumption and not what the Bible teaches. Let me back up that claim. For example, in Matthew 10:15, Jesus says “Truly I say to you, it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah on the day of judgment, than for that city.” In John 19:11 he says “…the one who handed Me over to you has the greater sin.” We can also look at the old Testament. Proverbs 6:16 says “There are six things the Lord hates, seven that are detestable to him….” And we can go back further to the Torah like Numbers 15:22-30 which lays out what to do in cases of unintentional sins vs. intentional ones. Throughout the Bible, there are distinctions made between different sins. They are not all treated equally. They do not all receive equal judgment, as Jesus explains himself. The word “sin” really just means a crime as defined by God rather than by a government authority. The fact that a number of actions are legally put under the category of “crime”, does not mean they are all equal. Many people might “go to jail”, but they will not have the same experience even if in the same place. Some might go to solitary confinement, for example, and not everyone will have to serve the same sentence. In a similar way, all sins are worthy of “going to hell”, but there’s no reason to assume that everyone has the same experience there or even that it’s static (unchanging). Hope this explanation makes sense. Feel free to ask follow-up questions! Have a good one
@@marche800 The problem that i with hell is the Hazbin universe is that hell isn't a punishment, there's no flame, lashings or anything of the sort, it's just a place where bad people go to and that's it, nothing about the place in itself is really bad
Honestly my issue with the show boils down to the concept. It basically requires moral complexity but it just doesn't do that....at all. There is clear cut good guys and there is clear cut bad guys there's no grey area or darker aspects to what's considered good people or good aspects to who are considered the villaons. Every single sinner at the hotel basically has their human lives which is arguably the most important thing to know when it comes to them wanting to redeem, completely ignored. Like with, Alastor and Vox yeah you can tell they belong in hell. But what did someone like sir Pentious do when he's misguided at best? Hazbin hotel's concept is one that basically requires moral complexity but they ignore that resulting in a lot of the writing in regards to redemption just not working.
Thank you for getting at the aspect that I found really frustrated me: the nonsensical morality system which doesn't even make sense in terms of its own attempts to talk about ethics, choices, and redemption, etc. but also in terms of mythology because if 10000 years passed, where the hell is MOSES? There's a St. Peter but no Jesus? etc.
So..... where does GOD fit in all this? Isn't GOD the one who wanted his Angels to try to SAVE Sinners, after Jesus Christ died? Also where is Jesus Christ in this? You know, the SON OF GOD? The Paragon who said to Turn the Other Cheek and Forgive? To help the Angels Help the Sinners Seek REDEMPTION? Oh I guess that Stuff doesn't Exist and all the Angels are Sick, Twisted, Murderous Psychopaths.
@@pjdixon6199 No, seriously. Think about it for a minute. Both shows have their role as good and bad switched (kinda). Sounds familiar, doesn't it? Plus, Vivzie has had a small history with Villainous.
Look, my problem with Charlie is that I don't understand her or Vaggie, there are people who say that "you didn't understand the character" but for me it's literal, I don't understand Charlie, to begin with what I understood is that Charlie wanted make his parents proud by proving that his father was wrong and that there was goodness in these beings and thus continue his mother's legacy of bringing prosperity, ok very good, but my problem is why do you create an establishment dedicated to a service that you do not Do you know if it is possible? No It's the same as you telling me that she had the hypothesis that it was possible and that she wanted to try it with Ángel Dust and Sir Pentius, and upon verifying that they did come up, then she would create the Hazbin hotel, we don't know how she came up with the idea either. That is to say, she read it in a story, she saw it in a movie, what was her thought process to arrive at the idea that redemption in hell is possible? Also, what parameters is she using to define who a person is a good person from a bad person?, just be nice to them?
The biggest problem with the show to me was Adam being an extremely poorly made strawman villain who wasn't even strawmanning properly - his belief that all sinners are evil and deserve death isn't even completely illogical and actually kinda makes sense, especially if you extrapolate how in "the lore", what little of it Hazbin has, he was the first man literally created by angels to rule the world, and didn't do anything particularly wrong (since he ended up in heaven), but he had to suffer, and watch humans around him suffer, because of consequences of Charlie's parents literally allowing capital-e Evil into existence, which isn't even addressed in the show. Also Lucifer apparently brags about how his wives cheated on Adam with Lucifer which is just really low. Adam is not allowed to have a point, to be a relatable character with motivations that make sense, because if he was, we would all rally behind him since Charlie is such a poor character that viewers would side with a charismatic rock over her. And that's a real shame because the show had an interesting concept and premise but just isn't mature enough to actually tackle it in any good way. Also, Penacony may have been a bit messy and Sunday's beliefs should have been explored more, but it was extremely enjoyable regardless and I wish Hazbin was at least half as good in that regard
@Sonic2024freedomera it's not even inaccurate, it's more of a "use Bible when it's convenient then disregard or gloss over the parts that don't fit the narrative"
The thing that grinds me about this show is how dull hell is lore wise. There’s multiple ways you can take hell. In fact Hazbin Hotel is very similar to Gehinom, the Jewish Equivalent some sects believe hell to be like, where everyone no matter how nice briefly or for a long time depending on the person, experiences either lashing, shame etc. until they feel redeemed for their misdeeds. In Hazbin Hotel, this concept would work beautifully. Charlie has a basis for people being able to be redeemed, but is still challenged on whether these people can be redeemed, as those who have stayed their long term, are truly terrible people. Instead, hell is not described, it’s even purposefully, stupidly vague. Heaven not having any real way to get in is even sillier.
I agree! Finally someone who doesn't protect Charlie blindy. Charlie is judging selfish hypocrite character too. Charlie never ever listened to Vaggie only twice but that's all she is bad girlfriend to Vaggie and bad supporter Vaggie has only Charlie and had a past she wasn't proud of and was worried about losing her but instead of understanding Vaggie Charlie talked about herself to Alastor like it's her being betrayed by her girlfriend! She even didn't give at least Vaggie space to let her explain it! Yes if she would be only hurted alright but how acted was totally out of her character She even treated Vaggie as some kind of monster like she would be worse than all sinners Charlie was so cold at Vaggie When said clodly about angelic weapons: If you would know that would you tell me? She acted like Vaggie would be her enemy and a monster Yes they made it then but only cause of Rosie help and it doesn't change a fact how acted with Vaggie She never ever protected Vaggie when others disrespected Vaggie only once she tried to protect at the end but that's all she forces Vaggie in doing something she doesn't wanna do and if Vaggie does it it's only cause of Charlie but we can clearly see Vaggie sounded felt like she would be forced It most of the time seems like Charlie takes an advantage of Vaggie to do something what Charlie wanna Vaggie deserves better in my opinion Charlie is worst person character the facts I said I'll not repeat it it's already in answers In why Chaggie is toxic She made feel Angel dust like he wouldn't matter when was proud of Sir Pentious but seriously!? Angel dust stayed for free room yes but he wanna redeem himself he just hides it or something like that but Sir Pentious didn't wanna redemption at the first place before he wanted to betray them only! She didn't understand and respect Angels discomfort when Charlie came to his job cause of idiotic hotel! She was arrogant and even if ok she stayed but she wasn't quiet and was stupid enough to talk loudly to Travis about Hazbin Yes she said sorry but only cause how Angel dust screamed to Charlie it's with kids too when you scream at them and they cry and say sorry but don't know why but say sorry cause are screamed on And I know I'll repeat it again I'm sorry XD but she is toxic character she has trouble emotionally understanding the motivations and problems of other characters. - Self-reflection is missing, she only perceives her own one-sided view. - Empathy is rather superficial, she does not understand deeper human emotions. - Social interactions are difficult for her, she can't take a regard . - The world is divided into black and white, there is no complexity. even though she appears in the show as if she feels empathy like the pain of others but it's more superficial and it looks like she's focused on herself on her goal to change the demons end the extermination etc. Or about how others feel, for example sometimes Angel dust or sometimes mostly Vaggie and the other characters. Charlie is present with a selfish desire to pursue her dream at any cost without truly understanding the needs of others. Charlie is also selfish It was selfish of her how in the song Ready for this cannibals they sang about killing and how they will eat angels and Charlie just with a judgmental expression: ehh Well that's a little violent can we tone it down? Like what? Yes Charlie is a princess but that doesn't mean she can control their thinking as she wants. She was so judging than understanding. they like to be what they want and Charlie sounds so stupid she sounded like she didn't know they were cannibals. - The demons only sang about their natural nature as cannibals, which is their everyday reality. - But Charlie wanted to dictate to them how to limit their speech according to her taste. - At the same time, she clearly did not understand that for them, being a cannibal is their identity, which they are proud of. - Her rebuke seemed arrogant and she didn't understand their situation she is selfish some said she gives chances like she maybe gives a second chances but still make others feel not important did others how Angel felt?! Or Vaggie or Lucifer!? She doesn't listen what others want or their needs they have some they just wanna be the way they are - The fact that Charlie gives a second chance does not include her further actions and behavior and does not excuse her for the way she behaves. - As I said, she still does not listen to the needs of others and makes them less important. - She judges their true nature without understanding their situation, like as I said I'm Cannibal Town when Charlie started a war because Adam wanted to attack and the cannibals sang about how they would eat and kill angels. They were just happy and happy to be the way they are, but Charlie judged them: Ehh that's a little violent can we tone it down? Ughh they are little murder right now. It sounded like she didn't even know they were cannibals like hello Charlie didn't she realize clearly that cannibals would be murderous like this? (sorry but that was judgmental and toxic and selfish of her) she just wanted to direct them to suit her taste even though she is the princess she cannot control their behaviors or minds. -Moreover, some said that Charlie is giving a second chance, but she didn't give a chance to Adam before Nifty stabbed him and why didn't she give Lucifer a chance from the beginning? She called him for help just because she needed something and she didn't even want to call him because she thought he didn't want to see her while he was struggling with his depression. And then she judged him and said nonsense that: Why is Alastor here for me when my own father is not?) Like this was toxic selfish judgmental from her and she didn't give him a chance from the beginning. Charlia's words about Alastor in contrast to her father Lucifer were unempathetic and over the top. Even if she didn't know his true motives, she had no right to judge and compare him like that. - Lucifer wanted to protect her from danger, even if Charlie didn't know it. - He was struggling with his own problems and depression and it might have been too psychologically taxing to help her. - Alastor is a manipulator, his help was with a selfish intention, which she didn't notice, but she still knows Alastor's personality a little - She didn't take into account her father's emotional state and problems, she only focused on her own goals. (only then did she gave a chance to him, but she still judged him and didn't give him a chance at the beggining). Her words were inappropriate and showed her lack of empathy towards her own family. It was really over the line and out of line. She almost never apologized only some times but that's all And she is really hypocrite. Alastor at the episodes 8 when was war between demons and angels exorcists and he protected hotel and main cast Adam hurted Al and Al disappeared but others didn't know it and thought he died Charlie didn't cry or anything she was like in the mind: Wow sad But when Sir Pentious protected them and died for them Charlie cried as a baby!! And even made portrait of him! But what about Alastor?!! Even if Alastor didn't protect them genuinely Charlie doesn't know it lol. Some people say she is really so empathic HA! She even didn't cry about Alastor Charlie and empathic?? It's rather superficial empathic! She doesn't wanna help others cause of joy or something like that She wanna help others cause she needs to or has to in order she would feel better about herself Charlie is hypocrite toxic judging and selfish
I believe Charlie is a good person with good intentions but that like everyone else at the hotel, she has a lot of growing, self-reflection, and redemption to be done. The important part is wanting to be better. If she's hurt someone, it starts with sorry.
@@ShoukoNishimiya17 No she isn't a judging selfish hypocrite character. She does listen to Vaggie though only a couple times did that not happen, no it happened more then twice and that isn't all and she isn't a bad girlfriend to Vaggie at all and she isn't a bad supporter either. Well yeah but Vaggie hid that truth to her for years when it's a huge deal Charlie had every right to be upset and Vaggie being worried isn't an excuse to lie about something like that she should have known better really. No Charlie tried to understand Vaggie, and well when Vaggie hides that from her for years yeah that kind of does feel like betrayal in a way. No she DID give Vaggie space to let her explain it but Vaggie just didn't explain it. It wasn't out of character at all again Charlie being upset makes perfect sense. No she didn't treat Vaggie as some kind of monster now you are just lying about Charlie really, she didn't act like Vaggie was worse than all sinners, Charlie wasn't really being cold at Vaggie. No she didn't act like Vaggie would be her enemy and a monster but considering what Vaggie didn't tell her before she had every right to say that. No it's also cuz of Charlie and Vaggie themselves in the end really and nah how she acted with Vaggie was fair really. Well that's because she didn't usually see others disrespect Vaggie to be fair aside from like once or twice and one of those times was when Lute disrespected Vaggie which Charlie was too busy at the moment to deal with that which was fair really. No she doesn't force Vaggie into doing something she doesn't wanna do she just convinces Vaggie to do it really, yeah true but she still does agree in the end really and no Vaggie didn't sound like she was being forced she just sounded annoyed by the idea of doing it is all but she wasn't being forced.
No wrong she never took advantage of Vaggie to do something that she wanted she just asked for her help really. Nah they deserve each other really. No she isn't the worst person character at all and that isn't facts that is just wrong really, except no Chaggie isn't toxic. Nah that was not her fault he should have known that of course he matters, she didn't tell him that he didn't matter or anything. Yeah he did wanna redeem himself but that doesn't make what Charlie said bad at all really. No Sir Pentious did eventually wanna redeem himself after he actually agreed to stay at the hotel. No she did understand and respect Angel's discomfort but she clearly messed up there unintentionally and the hotel isn't idiotic. No she wasn't arrogant she just made a mistake is all but that doesn't mean she was arrogant. I mean no she makes mistakes but she isn't actually stupid she is just a bit naive is all and talking about Hazbin is fine and that wasn't a stupid mistake on her part. No she was gonna apologize even if Angel didn't scream at her though. No it isn't like with kids as Charlie clearly isn't a kid or is like one. Nah she isn't a toxic character. No she doesn't have trouble emotionally understanding the motivations and problems of other characters like she does clearly get those things. -Except no she self reflects and changes and improves as a person and becomes better at leading for example like in episode 7 so no self reflection isn't missing, and no she perceives all views not just her own and her view isn't one sided either. -No her empathy is genuine not superficial, no she does understand deeper human emotions and she experiences them herself. - No social interactions aren't difficult for her but she does mess up at times, no she does take a regard a lot really. -no the world isn't divided into black and white, there is complexity and Charlie knows that. No she doesn't have trouble emotionally understanding the motivations and problems of other chara No her feeling the empathy and pain of others isn't superficial at all it's genuine and her being focused on her goal is fine and she isn't just focused on herself either. No she focused on how others feel too. No she isn't presented with a selfish desire as her desire is to help people out and have them improve as people which isn't selfish at all and she wants to pursue her dream but not at any cost as she isn't selfish like that and no she does understand the needs of others clearly it's why she helps out the way that she does. No Charlie isn't selfish. That wasn't selfish of her to do that she just wanted them to calm down as she wants them to improve in some way at least for their own good so that wasn't selfish really even if her expression was judgemental. She knows she can't control their thinking but she doesn't want to do that and she was just suggesting that they tone it down which is fine really. No she wasn't that judging really and she understood enough. No Charlie doesn't sound stupid and no she didn't sound like she didn't know they were cannibals she clearly knew that but she did want them to change and improve still. -Yeah which Charlie would want them to maybe tone that down and to slowly get better as people....like that isn't at all a bad thing. -No she didn't want to dictate them how to limit their speech according to her taste she just suggested (not fucking dictate you disingenuous liar) that they take it down a notch and she was trying to slowly get them to improve as people and get better really. -No she did understand that for them she just wanted them to improve though, yes she knows that but that doesn't mean that they can't slowly improve and get better as people. -No her rebuke didn't seem arrogant and she did understand the situation No she isn't selfish. No she isn't selfish, no she doesn't make others feel not important that isn't true and no Angel not feeling important isn't on her, same with Vaggie and Lucifer that was their own problems not caused by Charlie at all. No she does listen to what others want and and their needs they have, she just wants them to improve really. -No it does include her further actions and behavior why wouldn't it? And the way she behaves is just fine really nothing wrong with it. -Except you are wrong she does listen to the need of others and she doesn't make them less important. -No she does understand their situation but she also knows that they need to be better too, yeah Charlie judged them but that is fair as they are still sinners and they could slowly improve as people really. No it didn't sound like she didn't know they were cannibals she clearly knew that, yes she realized that clearly cannibals would be murderous like that but that doesn't mean that she can't get them to slowly change though. (no that wasn't that judgemental of her she was being fair really and it wasn't toxic or selfish of her either) no she didn't want to direct them to suit her taste she just wanted them to improve as people is all and yeah clearly she cannot control their behaviors or minds she knows that. -She did give a chance to Adam but Adam wouldn't listen to her even when she was giving him a chance so she had to act in self defense and it's not like she ordered NIfty to stab him or anything it just happened, and she did give Lucifer a chance from the beginning she just wasn't sure if she should actually call him herself or not after he didn't talk to her for a pretty long time at that point but she still was willing to give him a chance she just was unsure about actually initiating it herself is all. Which is fair for her to think that when Lucifer separated from her years ago and never really called or talked to her in a long while.
@@ShoukoNishimiya17 Considering his actions her judging him is fair really and she didn't say any nonsense, (well yeah that is a good point as Alastor supported her but her own dad didn't) no that wasn't toxic selfish judgement from her it was fair judgemet really, no she did give him chance but he wasn't living up to it really. No they weren't unempathetic or over the top they were fair and reasonable really. She did know his true motives though, no she did have a right to judge and compare him like that with how he was acting and behaving really. -No she knew that of course her dad wanted to protect her but that doesn't mean that all he did was right though. -Yeah no it clearly wasn't too psychologically taxing to help her especially when he was happy just to see her after going for years ignoring her and not coming to see her or anything, and with that being the case then clearly he would want to be with her and it makes him happy so his problems and depression wouldn't affect him choosing to help her and if anything him helping her would make him less depressed really. -No she did notice that but Alastor can still and did end up manipulating her and it made her think that maybe his intention wasn't all selfish. -No she did take into account her father's emotional state and problems but she also could see his flaws too, no she isn't only focused on her goals she focuses on others too. (no she always gave a chance to him, she judged him but again that's fair given the context and no she did give him a chance at the beginning when she decided to call him in the first place). No her words weren't inappropriate and she doesn't have a lack of empathy towards her own family. No it wasn't over the line or out of line at all. Well then you are wrong she DID apologize at times and yeah that's all but that's all she had to apologize for really and even then she apologized for some things she really didn't have to apologize for either. Considering his actions her judging him is fair really and she didn't say any nonsense, (well yeah that is a good point as Alastor supported her but her own dad didn't) no that wasn't toxic selfish judgement from her it was fair judgemet really, no she did give him chance but he wasn't living up to it really. No they weren't unempathetic or over the top they were fair and reasonable really. She did know his true motives though, no she did have a right to judge and compare him like that with how he was acting and behaving really. -No she knew that of course her dad wanted to protect her but that doesn't mean that all he did was right though. -Yeah no it clearly wasn't too psychologically taxing to help her especially when he was happy just to see her after going for years ignoring her and not coming to see her or anything, and with that being the case then clearly he would want to be with her and it makes him happy so his problems and depression wouldn't affect him choosing to help her and if anything him helping her would make him less depressed really. -No she did notice that but Alastor can still and did end up manipulating her and it made her think that maybe his intention wasn't all selfish. -No she did take into account her father's emotional state and problems but she also could see his flaws too, no she isn't only focused on her goals she focuses on others too. (no she always gave a chance to him, she judged him but again that's fair given the context and no she did give him a chance at the beginning when she decided to call him in the first place). No her words weren't inappropriate and she doesn't have a lack of empathy towards her own family. No it wasn't over the line or out of line at all. Well then you are wrong she DID apologize at times and yeah that's all but that's all she had to apologize for really and even then she apologized for some things she really didn't have to apologize for either. No she really isn't a hypocrite. Well she wasn't super close to Alastor to be fair and she didn't know a lot about him either and she was busy already too so she couldn't afford to cry any more at that moment. Well yeah they at least know that Pentious died unlike Alastor and he was pretty nice and they knew a lot about him unlike Alastor and they didn't have enough time to mourn them both a lot when they were pretty busy as is and when they weren't even sure if Alastor was really dead or not. Alastor wasn't forgotten but again Charlie was already busy and they didn't really know if he was dead or not. Yeah but she also didn't know if he was dead or not it's fine really. Nah she is empathetic and her not crying about someone she didn't know a lot about and who she wasn't even sure if he was dead or not doesn't mean she isn't empathetic. Nope it's genuine empathy really. Nope wrong she wants to help others to make their lives better and to genuinely help them out not cause she needs to or has to in order to feel better about herself that isn't it at all. No she isn't a hypocrite. Nope she isn't toxic judging or selfish.
Heartbreak Hotel was indeed underwhelming. And I didn't even watch Episodes 7 and 8! It was sheer torture trying to get through each episode, I was checking the time every 5 minutes. Charlie's childish, schizo behaviour and inability to understand that others aren't exactly of a similar frame of mind to her get her all caught up in herself, and it drove me up the wall. Vaggie has no personality whatsoever and merely echoes her thoughts. Lucifer, originally the greatest of all angels - a deadbeat doomer dad, with a fetish for ducks and unwilling to assert his authority. And Lilith is calling the shots and left him to do goodness knows what. Alastor is a paper tiger, The 3 V's are forgettable, as is Nifty. Angel's potential was never fulfilled, Husk was there, and only Ser Pentious truly delivered. Adam was the greatest character. A ton of filler, the entire series was incredibly fast-paced, rushing back and forth like it had ADHD. And similar to what Reaper said in his critique of the show - Heartbreak Hotel is "safe edgy," it's using vulgar language, innuendo, gore and mockery of Christianity (which has been commonplace in cartoons for 20 years) to seem cool and out there, but is instead very sterile in its delivery and is more of a hindrance than a help.
Oh, interesting! Do you know if that was supposed to represent something, like she was being controlled by someone else? Or just a random design choice?
@@jazzandghost , I’m not sure, I would guess design choice though. I never read anything about that Charlie was controlled but your question makes sense.
@@OneClassicalLass , Exactly, Charlie doesn’t look much like a doll, period. As far as goat, I don’t think that’s true, but Viv did mention goat hooves once, I personally thought that idea made no sense.
4:35 I'm not done with the video yet... but never in my life I would expect to see Lucifer from Obey Me mention followed by Veggietales in a Hazbin Hotel video
"Everything is sh*t and we all suck." -St. Paul (paraphrased, of course) Hazbin Hotel (and Helluva Boss) takes me back to Panty and Stocking. A series with a unique art style but hypocritical views and religious taboos and blasphemy. Presbyterians are a subset of Protestants (if it's not Catholic or Orthodox it's Protestant). The only reason the Protestant church exists is because the Catholic Church was corrupt during Martin Luther's time. There's a line from Stephen King's Children of the Corn that states very clearly what offbrand Christianity is. The main character, Bert, holds up a bible and asks "are you changing all of it or only the parts that suit your needs?" Later he says, "any religion without love and compassion is false."
Thanks so much for including your religious perspective! I'm a Christian, and I don't take issue with using aspects of Christian belief and tradition in fantasy media. I love the Keanu Reeves Constantine movie, which has an angel villain, and I've sunk sooooo many hours into the Diablo games, where angels aren't always strictly good. So I strive to make it clear to people that I take issue with Hazbin Hotel's treatment of religious themes for reasons outside of feeling "offended" by a "blasphemous" depiction or anything. If Vivziepop is trying to critique moral absolutism, it falls flat because the moral codes of individual characters are so unclear and inconsistent. If she's trying to critique the history of Christianity, it falls flat because everything has a vague air of being Christianity-derived but utterly lacks in meaningful traits of the religion. If she's trying to critique theocratical tyranny in all its forms, it falls flat because some characters who exercise power over others are treated as justified/not a big deal while others are not. If she had based this story on any other religion, these would still be consistent thematic problems that severely harm the show.
Personally i think Story of Hell in the beginning is so bad cause it paint Lucifer as victim when he's not that i headcanon that book to be a propaganda in Hell targetted toward Hell-spawned to make Lucifer and Lilith looks better.
![Hazbin Hotel was Garbage, Here's Why [Part 1]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/9qI7BU_9iTw/mqdefault.jpg)
![Hazbin Hotel was Garbage, Here's Why [Part 1]](/img/tr.png)
Four things that leave a bad taste in my mouth:
1. I cannot get past the fact that Charlie took CRAYON drawings to a diplomatic meeting that had the potential to decide the fate of countless people. It would have been funny if it was supposed to make her look like the joke she is, but it seems much more likely that it was meant to make her seem innocent and charming. It doesn’t, it makes her look incompetent.
2. Alastor is pathetic and sad to watch. He had a great vibe in the pilot. He was chaotic, in control, and mysterious. In the actual show, he is consistently shown to be insecure, desperate to establish dominance, and trying way too hard when it comes to his “creepy” persona. It’s cringy. Vivizie did mention it was hardest to write Alastor and it really shows.
3. I will never get over the cannibals. In a dark comedy, yeah, go ahead and recruit cannibals. That would be hilarious. But Charlie wants the moral high ground. Cannibalism is not the way to go for that.
4. I cannot believe yet more people have watched these public videos and subscribed to this public channel that is only for me. How dare you.
I was never expecting to like the show, but it still interested me especially since I’ve known about Vivzie for a long time and liked some of her past projects. Nothing could have prepared me for how confused and poorly structured it turned out to be.
On a final note, to all those who have subscribed, I hope you know what you’ve gotten into by joining this crew. Jazz may hold the title “captain”, but *I* control the systems of this ship, and you have started this voyage by making me very unhappy. It was bad enough that Jazz has been trying to pay me in tokens for a restaurant chain that doesn’t even exist in our branch of the universe (I don’t know how she got them), but now I have to deal with this as well. There is only so much disrespect I will take. Keep that in mind. >:(
@@ghostandjazz oh don't worry, I'm here to stay, Jazz has an awesome personality and her videos are entertaining!!
As for your critiques, I totally agree there!
@@ghostandjazz to add to your first point, don't forget that Charlie is 200 years old according to a writer's interview
@@guerreiroazul3230 No way and she's using crayons during a meeting??? 🤣🤣🤣
@@OneClassicalLass i decided to look into it, that information was given by Faustisse, who is one of the main writers, during a live stream called "💖 HAZBIN HOTEL FASHION STREAM for the COMICS!! 💖" That has been archived.
This is so unbelievably pathetic, but it adds as to why Charlie doesn't work. Examples of "innocent to the point of cuteness" type characters are Luz from Own House and Mabel from Gravity falls, however they both have a distinct feature that Charlie doesn't, they are children. If a child does something like using crayon drawings in a pitch meeting then its cute, if an adult uses crayon drawings in a pitch meeting then its cringe.
@@guerreiroazul3230 I wouldn't say cringe but its vary childish for someone to do during a meeting.
There is one plot twist they could do that would impress me:
Heaven isn’t heaven, it’s purgatory, and it’s full of people who have given up on self betterment. Nobody knows how to get to actual heaven because they’re all resting on their laurels and looking down on hell because “at least they aren’t there” the twist is revealed when sir pentious, having already seen the benefits of improving his behavior, becomes the first person to go from purgatory to heaven because he’s the only resident who works towards self betterment for its own sake.
That would be amazing! and 110% way above what Vivian medrano is capable of writing lol
That would make me love this show so much
Not only that, God isn't present in heaven, so it's gotta be a purgatory. Also God is the only one who can judge the dead, it even says it in the Bible. Without the presence of God, it will get chaotic there.
@RaphaelGatchalian that’s actually the exact reason I came up with that twist, in welcome to heaven the “everybody’s hot” line suggests it’s still full of people who are shallow, and if hell is separation from god, then there’s no real difference between The two places
Thats not how purgatory works really. Once youre in purgatory, its painful pirification of venial sin but you are going to heaven once the purification is over. You could maybe use limbo instead but still thats also not accurate so isk
42:05 This question is actually answered. People in hell CAN die from normal guns, weapons, etc; however, they reincarnate a few hours later back in hell. Angelic weapons prevent this reincarnation. When angelic weapons are used, the sinner dies and their “energy” is absorbed into hell.
The dead bodies are from people who died normal deaths. They’ll eventually reincarnate.
My problem is that this is answered in an obscure livestream. Pretty much every main question is answered in a livestream. Why should I have to go watch 100 livestreams on a sketchy archive platform in order to find basic info about a show?
Does that first rule apply only to the hellborn or the sinners too?
@@PQAishaActually, Hellborn just die die regardless, angelic weapons or not, sinners are the only ones who get to reincarnate cuz of how high they are on the hierarchy ladder
So this isn't actually answered in an accessible way that we still know to be canon to the show? Like in the sense that this information is given to the audience
I swear, sometimes it feels like you have to do a whole ass side-quest to learn some of these stuff
@@oreoloki8872the hierarchy doesn't make any sense. Yes sure ocs whatever but biblically, which this is trying to base itself on, sinners have no standing. None of this makes any sense, even in canon.
You know, I feel like they should've kept Lucifer as an openly judgemental, and distant character. (At least how I interpret the way he shows up in "I'm Always Chasing Rainbows.)
It'd give credence to Charlie's daddy issues, explain why she's This desperate for validation/attention from other people, and would give her a mirror to look into about the way she behaves towards other people.
Does she really want to end up like her father? What would getting his attention (in a positive manner) actually do for her?
Not to mention, if Alastor legitimately acted like a trustworthy and present mentor/father figure the whole time, there would be real tension between the two (Lucifer and Alastor) should a Dead Beat Dad like situation arise.
Alastor would also justifiably despise Lucifer for a whole slew of reasons. For being an absent, neglectful, verbally abusive father (Likely akin to the one Alastor had growing up.), for being far too strong to fight/injure/kill, and for attempting to reestablish himself as somebody Charlie can rely on when she needs help. (Which is part of Alastor's long term manipulation, and is also, ever so slightly genuine.)
So, a decent-ish dad-figure who's manipulating Charlie to further his own goals, vs an awful dad who's only here bc Charlie is succeeding at something for once. (You know, instead of the hotel being another one of Charlie's Many failed projects.)
I feel like Lucifer's too nice, and quick to give up in opposing Charlie's dreams in canon. There's zero stakes there.
Good ideas!
I don't think a character for being immortal should be mature.
Look at the greek pantheon. They were a bunch of idiots that did whatever they wanted because "hell yeah we're gods".
The problem of Hazbin and the whole "Hellaverse" is how everyone every character is written as an edgy teenager OC. Foul-mouthed depraved and criminal for the sake of it. There's no contrast. No one is good but all are the same kind of bad.
The most different was Alastor not mentioning sexual things or swearing, then they made him swear. Great.
@maravreloaded Swearing is okay almost everyone swear. I mean you know it's bad but in the show it's fine it's adult show after all.
But I'm happy they didn't make him as Valentino I mean Val is into sexual things and sexual abuse others.
For this I'm happy that Alastor is not sexual predator
Totally fair point. Their immaturity stood out because every single character is a, like you said, edgy teenage OC, and there was nothing to differentiate them from each other. Old, yet still immature characters can be really interesting, because they have so much more experience.
@@jazzandghost
An immature character isn't the problem, it's immature WRITTING.
no the problem is you cant use the greeks as a frame of reference due to how the two religions view their figures of myth. The Greeks saw the gods as both representations of man and as wild forces of nature its why every god is wild and impulsive making decisions just because or without any real motivation at all because thats how we see nature sometimes. In the bible and its other texts the two groups are paragons of the alignments the angels are an ultimate force of good and are specifically gods servants and any angel that doesn't meet that is removed via "Falling" meanwhile devils/demons are the ultimate force of evil they are hedonistic tricksters and murderers which means that if someone is an angel they need to match that mood or they shouldnt be an angel and thats actually why your second point stands out as a complaint if this was based in greek myth it would make sense for gods to be petty but in biblical myth Angels arent supposed to be evil they can be detached from humanity but overall but there shouldnt be a point where an angel in a functioning heaven would provoke the question how did they get there. She didnt write angels to be angels she wrote them as villains Charlie might have actually worked better as an angel since that would allow her to have her innate sense of goodness that seems alien for hell and could have brought up interesting elements but Viv wanted to write about a demon girl in a plot that doesnt really work for a demon girl and thats ignoring all the nonsense regarding lucifer
@dukeofwisdom9118 angels are just white and gold versions of demon that are red and black. Basically the only difference between them. Look at Adam. He is a freaking duchebag.
I have my cannon: The story would make more sense if you the main character was Adam instead of Charlie, and he was trying to redeem the sinners he condemned for eating the apple that Lucifer gave him. And the one committing the genocide was Abel (his son), someone who actually has a reason to hate sinners (because he was killed by his brother, Cain). And the purpose of the genocide was sending sinners deeper and deeper into the rings of hell, for greater punishments.
Why it looks or feels so good?? XD I definitely agree
Charlie is a horrible main character she is judging selfish hypocrite jerk which thinks only her can "understand" others
Ong this would make a good fan story
@@Pomeranian690yeah it's true
Charlie is a childish incompetent idiotic character she thinks understands people but she doesn't
@ShriahAber I definitely agree!! She actually has narcisstic disorder I can say why but I dont know if yt will let me once I explained that to someone it was allowed but when I sent to someone else it was deleted ughh yt has issues
@@ShriahAber So, Disney?
Also, you forgot to say Emily Explicitly called sinners of hell: "innocent people"
Like, really? Innocent people?! XDD
And the worst part is that nobody calls her out on it
@@guerreiroazul3230"there's a CANNIBAL TOWN, there are soo many cannibals that they build up a town for them. If the camera turned left, it's propably right next to pedo village and hitler villa"
@@elmascapo6588 but they just an innocent babies 😥😥. they soooo sad in hell don't you see? they even stop fuck children on Tuesdays and burn jews on Saturdays, thats how they upset🤧🤧
Like I can understand if she meant that there are "some" innocent people but that was conveyed awfully
she didn't mean they are all literally innocent but not all of them deserve to be purged like that.
I wouldn't want to beat a dead horse but talking about horses, My Little Pony Friendship is Magic had a better "house is destroyed" scene than Hazbin Hotel.
And like, if this KIDS SHOW has more things to say about punishment, forgiveness and harmony than this ""adult"" show then STOP WRITING.
Season 4 Episode Twilight's Kingdom Part 1.
The villain, Tirek destroys Twilight's house and she barely saves her assistant/little brother and pet.
And that is for sure impactful for her. That was her place in the town and she liked it being a library.
The show didn't magically rebuilt it as "nothing happened". After the battle against Tirek a castle spawns out of nowhere but she doesn't fit there, doesn't want to be there wants her old home but that can't be turned back. So her friends use some of the remainings of her old house, to make decorations that make her remember her roots (literal roots because her old house was a tree, you see THIS is clever writing)
@maravreloaded I agree with you totally!!
I would love if they would choose to stop do Hazbin since
I'm also worried they might destroy Al since Al will get story in season 2 and I'm worried
they will make him sympathetic broken anti hero
like no way it wouldn't fit him!
Let him be like he is! Evil psychopath cannibal which manipulates others!
Yes he can have story like being abused by father but still be born as psychopath.
Psychopaths can still be abused by parents
but I don't want him to be forced into sympathic broken anti hero 😥
Tf you watch my little pony 😂
@@Rvb_25, watching my little pony is a lot less embarrassing than watching hazbin tbh
@@Rvb_25 the difference is mlp is actually good
Holy crap I remember that episode! I haven’t seen the show since I was 10 or 11.
Mlp has better writing than I thought, I need to rewatch it
Little late but I need to say my piece. The demon child Vaggie spared wasn't a child. It was a plot device to poorly justify why she fell from Heaven. Even though Adam explicitly stated she had killed 'thousands' of sinners before. So either Vaggie just never killed the children of Hell and nobody noticed, but that raises the question of Adam's assessment of her; she was his number one killing machine or she had a sudden spontaneous change of heart. This series is just flashy eye candy, like Avatar, just throw a bunch of tumblr OC's in front of an edgy backdrop, watch them fight and later realise nothing of significance happened. This show is the epitome of a dancing bear. You're not supposed to care if the bear dances well only that it dances at all.
I Always "like" to Imagine said... Child was, in fact, a adult daemon Who Just happened to look like a child. After all, Husk looks like a cat.
Very late too, but Niffty also kind of looks like a child to me. Well, If she wasn't apart of the main cast and we didn't knew she was probably in her 20's, I would think so. So maybe that Cannibal Child was also an adult who just looks like a child? Maybe he isn't Hellborn, he's a Sinner, which would mean He ate people. Which means he probably isn't that innocent and didn't deserve to be spared, If he's a sinner of course. I agree he's just a plot device for Vaggie's story(that is kinda unnecessary to me) tbh.
Which avatar? The blue alien one or the Airbender one? The blue alien one I can agree with to a degree, a decent idea with very flawed execution.
@@CharlieEmily999also late as hell (no pun intended), I find it a bit weird that Nifty is portrayed in a juvenile, childlike manner compared to other main characters. I don’t think she’s like a child, so to say, but she’s often played off as “crazy” and “weird” and “hyper”, and she’s just not taken seriously by others minus Alastor sometimes. She’s supposed to be someone who was driven insane by the shitty mental healthcare system, which is an interesting concept, but instead she’s trapped in the manic pixie nightmare girl box. She’s edgy just to be edgy, her role is to be crazy so people can laugh at her antics. It’s clear she has issues, including her impulsivity and clear inclination for violence, but nobody takes it seriously. Including Charlie. I’m not saying Nifty has to be serious all of the time, just at least let Charlie realize that the girl has a very real problem. If Charlie’s supposed to be about giving everyone a second chance, isn’t Nifty - someone who’s young, cheerful, not cruel in the way many hell’s denizens are, clearly suffered under someone’s hands and potentially not always in her right mind - a good candidate (as opposed to Alastor or Husker, whose motives are more complicated)?
@randomizerperson you actually bring a good point. But I meant by her looks, if she was like a background character and had little to no dialoge like the Cannibal kid as of now, I would think so. But again, I agree for the most part. Charlie's goal is about second chances, so why doesn't she try to find out Niffty's problem and at least try to fix it? Everyone doesn't take her seriously and honestly, she just wastes screentime and doesn't affect the story(I pointed out in my own comment in the comment section). Sorry if this doesn't make sense,I'm not a good debater lol.
Charlie giving sinners redemption... Essentially making Heavens victims from people that abused them r*pe them, murdur them. And their kids families.... A chance to live together.... Who would ever want that.. And that's f*cked up
That's why I say she is selfish judging hypocrite manipulating toxic with narcissistic disorder she thinks she is good and does it for people but doesn't XD its the same for Emily cause they are totally same at least when it comes to voice and personality and its more worse for Charlie I can say why 🙏
😂😂
That’s exactly my problem with her she believes sinners have a right to change and go to heaven but she doesn’t acknowledge their victims and having their tormentors would cause them a lot of distress. Angel was in the mafia when he was a human and I believe there’s a chance some of the people he killed are in heaven but is it really fair to have Angel in heaven when it could just torment his victims even further? Charlie is so annoyingly self centered and self righteous I don’t like her
@@spiritualelement757
I believe a lot of that selfishness and self-centred nature comes from VivziPop’s self insert onto Charlie. If the rumours are true that VivziPop is indeed very narcissistic and selfish at times, then it’s no wonder she would self insert herself onto one of her characters.
That my true problem with Charlie she thinks her Redemption plan and sinners have a chance but they are abusers yanderes psychopaths pedos and child murders she thinks they a chance but in reality they don't and how it cause emotional stress on angels in heaven and how angle dust was in a Mafia family and he have killed alot innocent people
Not live togeher but people can change.
I only disagree with Star being an inspiring protagonist. She genocided every single being in the universe who's made up of magic. Star's done a crime worse than the majority of the Hazbin characters and it's painted as a good, noble thing by the narrative, ugh.
The finale of svtfoe was an absolute mess. As was Star in that last season. But I do blame the writers, rather than Star, for that. That's not the character they set up or wrote her as in the previous seasons.
@@jazzandghost fair enough
@@jazzandghost Why do writers love doing that???
Making a good character at first in the beginning seasons, then I guess having their mind wiped and making the character act and be out of character in the last seasons???
That's so annoying.
@OneClassicalLass Well it's like that unfortunately.
But me if I would be writer I wouldn't be like that I wouldn't change the character for worse.
Wasn't it only The High Commission that were killed?
As a Christian myself I knew I had to turn off my brain while watching Hazbin. But man does Heaven and the Angels being cast as the incompetent bad guys grind my gears.
Apparently the Angels created heaven but they don’t know how people get into heaven!?? And for thousands of years they never seek to find out!?!? Almost as if they only created that plot point so Charlie could have the high ground and call out the ‘corrupt’ system of Heaven.
And Charlie acting like the souls in hell are ‘poor uwu babies’ when she sees multiple horrible people doing multiple horrible things daily. It’s so aggravating how naive she is. It’s what makes Charlie my least favorite character.
As a Christian, I absolutely loathe Charlie Morningstar for being a spineless brat. No grown adult should behave like her, especially WOMEN. Women in my family were NOT spineless brats.
@@peachybunny1875 There’s not a lot of people saying this, but there is a headcanon that Charlie as autistic it’s not Canon, but it’s nice that autistic people can relate to a character like that and for you to say that a possibly neurodivergent character is a “spineless brat” and “no grown adult should behave like her, especially women” is kind of gross especially since there’s a lot of people who are undiagnosed with autism, especially women.
@@sailorstar3148 Charlie doesn't have autism it's not cannon bro not
to mention nothing from autism fits her just one thing but that's all.
What she said is true XD stop justify Charlie oh God
@@Pomeranian690 That’s why I said it was a headcanon stupid can you read? You’re acting just like those Mabel haters oh god.
@@Pomeranian690 That’s why I said head canon stupid Lord you’re acting like the Mabel haters on God.
Remember when people thought the Angels where actually going to be cool and mysterious characters whose goals where not clear?
Hehe... yeah
I wish that's the show we got!
@@tomassmith1519 mystery is very intriguing, I heard from the grapevine that the angels being mysterious was actually more hinted at in the TH-cam pilot?
I wouldn't know, I haven't seen the pilot.
@@OneClassicalLass it was. And it actually seemed like it was gona be that way and actually good
@@tomassmith1519 Huh... Interesting.
It was clear from the beginning before the show started that they were evil
16:37
As a former "adult movie" actor, the way they portray people like poor victims is a bit degrading I never was a victim, but of my own poor choices. I'm old now, and it's been 30 years that I'm not in that lifestyle anymore. And I'm grateful for this. It's not what people imagine, not fun at all. It gives young people a bad idea of what it really is.
@@SurnaturalM Glad you got out of that, I'm young and I've heard that the adult film industry is a nightmare, I don't know how more youth like me think it's 'fun' and all that crap, God bless you!
I'm glad people like you aren't afraid of opening up about being an ex adult actor to call out bullshit when needed.
That's really the core problem with Angel Dust as a character, the writing is so...immature. he's a porn star and a stripper and a prostitute and a slut and also a victim of SA...oh and of course don't forget a user of hard drugs because all those things are basically the same. That isn't to say of course someone can't be a few of those things at once but the show treats it like it all goes hand in hand with each other like a child trying way too hard to be edgy
@@theshockinglyeloquentdog9945what do you mean?
@@Yalovayahznepomnimena what do you mean what do I mean? I mean someone who is a stripper is not also a prostitute and someone who does sex work is no a horny slut and someone who is a slutty flirt is not automatically a porn star or a stripper by trade. And probably the most gross, a victim of SA is not automatically hyper sexual, someone who does sex work is not automatically a victim and victims are not sluts. Anyone who conflates all those things is an immature person with limited knowledge about any of those things.
I remember pilot Charlie. She had so many layers
It often felt she was fighting against herself to be a good person.
Is a shame Vivzie fired the only good writes of the team, after stealling his ideal and not giving him any credit
And it annoys me... so much how the hotel has no reason to actually exist. They could have paced this show well, but Nooooooo
Literally no proof that she did that
And I like how in the pilot it appeared that Lucifer was actually kinda mean.
Every SINGLE character got bodied or uwu'd. Alastor was turned into a Twitter yassqueen, Angel turned into a stereotype of his pilot self, Vaggie was made into an exorcist because of a dumb fan headcannon, and Lucifer should have been made more sinister.
@roxycauldwell544 Some said that Vivzie mind cannot change and said that Vaggie was an exorcist since the pilot that my facts make no sense when I said that the comic of Al doesn't have to be cannon anymore
like wtf what?? Everyone's mind can change 😂😂😂
They completely changed Vaggie from being killed in earth being a prostitute to an exorcist. Everyone especially Charlie would hate this version of themselves. Also, why the hell isnt the show like the pilots fun and fluid animation?
Viziepop is a designer, she is an artist, a song-maker, a conceptualizer, but above all else, she is not a writer.
She just isn't, and she weighs down the show by forcing herself to be it's writer.
@@Saltboi1823 She really could just let the writing be done by pros... Or have them give her tips or guides or... something!!! From hearing the summary, The series feels like they had too many ideas and couldn't save some ideas for later and just used all of them in one season, which is NEVER a good idea (Well, if you know what you're doing, it's a good idea... But it felt like V didn't know how to balance it all.)
@@OneClassicalLass couldn't have said it better myself. I feel like Vizie was afraid she would lose control of the story if she relinquished status as a writer; which is an understandable fear, but she must overcome it or she'll ruin her golden goose for good.
THIS. IS. WHAT. I'M. SAYING!
Like, it's obvious she prefers designing characters than writing her own show.
@@OneClassicalLass , This! Yes, but she wishes were a legit writer, and she has a very fragile ego. She frankly just sucks. Stick to the character designing ONLY, Vivzie. But I know you ain’t gonna listen. And by you I mean Viv.
@@Saltboi1823 , She already is ruined, Hazbin isn’t even hype anymore, people just upload Hazbin content for views. Her other show has been shrinking with the views for quite some time.
I honestly believe that Charlie is the way she is because vivzy thinks this is how good people are. She doesn't understand that genuinely good people are not just virtue signaling and trying to keep their own image up
Oh my god that is so true. A lot of people are like that.
I didn't think of it that way. 😂
I could see that. I feel like Charlie is kinda also her best version of _herself_ though. The version that has all the traits that she feels like she lacks in some way or another
Exactly. For someone who is supposedly a good person, we hardly ever see Charlie show any true empathy. She doesn’t reach out or talk to people. She doesn’t ask Husker or Angel about their feelings or acknowledge that they are literal slaves (Husker is literally forced to work at the hotel by Alastor!!). Her idea of helping Angel is just going to the studio and demanding he be treated better and then later cries about it when it doesn’t work out, she doesn’t actually do anything about it!! She doesn’t reason with anyone just behaves like a child. And she is absolutely hypocritical, arguing everyone can be redemmned but allows Alastor to kill all the demons outside the hotel and engages in a bloody war against the angels.
@@Nopeasaurus I agree even Rachel Gardner from angels of death anime or Blitz or Verosika from helluva boss showed true empathy.
As a Christian myself the concept of her show I really like. Dammed people seeking redemption and exporting the themes of what that really means and if it can be done. But them making heaven the bad guys is where it lost me because what’s the point in getting out of hell if the people upstairs are just as bad. Also I don’t get the point of the overlords they have wealth and power and seem happy in their role where’s the punishment in that?
True. If evil people like Val can continue to abuse and harm people in the afterlife as well as live comfortably, how is that hell for them?
Same. I also didn’t like how gay it became.
If you want to see this concept done right, read "The Great Divorce" by C.S. Lewis. Also, "The Screwtape Letters" is a better exploration into how demons work than either of Viziepop's stuff. Yes, any neat idea she had was already done better by a theologian whose been dead for 70 years.
Heaven in the show isnt bad, there just trying to protect there people and rightfully dont want sinners there
Same
You wanna see something funny?
Let Charlie be in the Hotel alone with the most evil, disgusting, heartless, irredeemable monsters in fiction history, like Frieza, Bill Cipher, Jack Horner, Kid Buu, Doomsday, Freddy Krueger, Carnage/Cletus Kassidy, Mahito and Dio. See how long it takes for her to snap and pull a Puss in Boots Jiminy Cricket on them. We'll see if EVERYONE is deserving of a second chance after that.
Put her with judge holden and she will really snap
@@Stratoblast That would be a great idea.... This doesn't just go for fictional characters too...
Could Charlie believe that Hitler could be redeemed? Stalin? Ted Bundy? Jeffery Dalmer?
How far is she willing to take this? I need to know this.
@@OneClassicalLass She would fully believe it so long as they pretended to believe in her.
Considering it’s implied guys like those are the norm in hell, she wouldn’t snap, or even budge slightly since she doesn’t know how to connect to any of them. So she’ll just keep assuming they’re just damaged for her to fix and keep giving them infinite chances to do better next time so long as they keep feeding her savior complex.
@@MrCritic77 Who do you think can drive her up a wall? I'm interested to hear you're opinion and laugh with you.
Its really impressive how I've watched like 20 hours of Hazbin Horel critiques and almost every new video manages to pinpoint a new fatal flawxfor the series
Yup- every new video made by new people. It's interesting to watch
It really shows how fucking messy the series is
This is why I’ve watched so many critique videos, it’s insane
Yes. That's why i watch more videos. İt is to interesting and funny
True
I feel like Hazbin Hotel should've been about Charlie becoming a better person herself and realizing her own and her ideas' flaws. OR she could've even focused on "redeeming" some Hellborns. I only say this because Helluva Boss shows us that some Hellborn like Moxxie, his mother, and Blitzø's mother aren't inherently violent or evil or anything like that, and are kind by their own nature. Now THAT would've been interesting
Unfortunately we will never get it cause Charlie has to be always right in reality she is: narcissistic selfish judging manipulative toxic jerk just uses others for her ego and ignores other feelings but acts like she care but she doesn't😅
“She questioned the story of Adam, Eve and Lucifer” gonna take a wild assumption and assume Viv didn’t mean the Bible and actually meant Paradise Lost where Lucifer is humanized more (but is still portrayed as pathetic and selfish).
I think she sympathized with Lucifer, hated Adam and viewed Eve as either a self insert or plot device. Because anyone who has read the Bible, including the person who has made this video can immediately say that Lucifer hasn’t done a single good thing and only acts in his own self interests.
Yeah well same could be said of God himself but yeah it’s a bad show
@@randomguy56789considering how God still hasn't killed us all after all the bullshit we had made, we can safely say that the old man ain't really selfish
@@elmascapo6588 He technically DID kill people during the flood of Noah.
Because of all the terrible things they have done.
@@randomguy56789well he did let Lucy did things to someone named Job
Lucifer, Satan, Devil and Snake are all different beings in bible
The way this show handles the morality of heaven and hell is embarrasing
Why should anyone aspire to go to heaven where all the "good people" are, if the obviously villainous Adam is allowed for eons?
And why should we get outta hell if there's actual chances of someone living a happy and fullfiling life? like the leader of the cannibals or the Vs?
Just another reason Charlie's plan makes no sense!
@@benjaminjara7312 what did Adam do wrong really? He killed murderers and rapists?
@@guerreiroazul3230
Agreed. You know what would've helped this story? Nuance... If Vivzie added nuance and allowed the 'villains' to be correct, that would've helped this story!
Because Plot wise- what Adam did wrong was disagree with Charlie.... But that's about it. He was a strawman and in a sense, so was Sera.
His personality sucks sure, but it's not like he killed innocents, and given that Hell has the ability to grow to the point where they could overtake heaven, Adam killing some of the denizens of Hell is understandable! I wouldn't want cannibals, murderers etc to overrun my land either! But from what I've heard, Vivzie didn't want the villains to have a good point. She wanted them to be wrong, no matter how stupid it would seem in the final product. When Charlie was questioning the angels on how they had no idea what gets people redeemed and accepted into heaven, I'm thinking:
"Would it have been so hard to add nuance and make the "bad guys" correct here? Have Sera or Adam actually know what it takes to get into heaven, and proceed to kill Charlie's defense for Angel Dust."
Vivzie didn't even allow Sera to argue her points, when Charlie and Emily were singing that stupid song, she wasn't able to get a good point across, because that would require NUANCE and would immediately kill Charlie's argument.
Would it have been to much to give the antagonists the upper hand and moral high ground here?
Would it have killed Vivzie to allow Sera to give Charlie AND Emily (because she doesn't know any better.) a stern rebuke with good points? Because there are two sides to one coin!
(I personally love it when the hero tries to argue with the villain and the villain claps back with good points- Example: No straight roads! When May and Zuke confronted Tatiana, they tried to kill her points, but she killed theirs instead showing them how they were doing the EXACT SAME THING she was doing, and it was glorious to watch her be proven right! Why? Because that causes the hero to look into their own actions.)
If Sera knew what got beings in heaven and had given Charlie a verbal smackdown on HER lack of knowledge, that would've been interesting! Nuance would've killed that entire scene with Charlie in heaven because if Sera was RIGHT and KNEW what got beings in heaven, and told Charlie that Angel Dust's actions weren't good enough- that would be interesting!!!
But that would require the 'villains' (I don't see Sera as a villain honestly.) to be correct! That would require Nuance! And I don't think Vivzie wants to do that...
The 'Villains' of Hazbin Hotel fail for similar reasons the villain of Wish fails....
Lack of Nuance. We don't really get to understand their side.
And the underhanded sly tactic of never showing why the 'villain' is right.
In Wish, we never saw a bad wish that would prove Magnifico's argument correct, in Hazbin Hotel, Vivzie straight up doesn't tell us what gets a soul into heaven as that would prove Sera's and Adam's points... But that would make the look understandable, and we can't have that.
But what do you think?
@@OneClassicalLass I agree with everything that you said, especially the Sara part. Even if she doesn't know exactly what gets someone she should still have a pretty good idea of it because she has been in heaven for thousands of years.
To me it's because of a lack of knowledge on the subjects at hand and a lack of desire to research more into it, vivzie's idea of "redemption" is just promising to be good, but she doesn't realize that to be redeemed you need to pay for something that you did, because you are redeeming yourself of an specific action.
Take Sir Pentious for example, he has been redeemed, but why? And of what? The show never tells us, because to Vivzie it doesn't matter.
But that's not fair to the people who got wronged by Sir Pentious when he was alive to see him going to heaven despite everything he's done to them, which is the crux of what Vivzie doesn't understand: mercy to the guilty can be cruelty to the victim. Take Angel Dust for example, he was a mob boss in his life, imagine how bad it would feel to the old lady that got drowned by Angel because she didn't pay the "protection" fee to see him in heaven with her just because he decided to stop abusing substances or whatever, it would feel awful.
But nobody makes those arguments because Vivzie, and the rest of the staff, think that redemption = being a good person. And that's it, there isn't any nuance because the writers don't think there is nuance to it.
@@guerreiroazul3230
Vivzie doesn't want a good villain, she wants strawmen who are evil because evil.
And it's kind of annoying... 🙄
What confuses me about making the figure of Adam a villain is if we go by biblical canon Adam was in Hell until Christ pulled him out. Adam was just a man who gave up paradise to be with Eve, if anyone represents getting sent to Hell for no "good" reason it would be Adam. Usually Micheal is the go-to heavenly warmonger.
But that would require Vivzie to do actual research and put effort in, and that's too hard
@@guerreiroazul3230 I blame Lilith, she's basically the Medusa of Christian Lore. A minor creature that got turned into a major demon and got a feminist rebrand.
@@wingedyaga2914 but also these 2 women have fanbases that treat Tumblr headcanon as canon...
@@wingedyaga2914 that's a good point, Vivzie could've used that!!
@@guerreiroazul3230 Now now let's be nice....
I mean it's true but you didn't have to SAY it!!
Hazbin hotel should’ve been about rehab into a functional society. I view heaven like the wealthy town with good hospitals while hell is the crackhead town. Charlie was so insulting to Angel. You have a dr-g addict asking for help and u give trust fall exercise.
And on top of that she gave cherri money and told her to take Angel, the addict, to the club! How irresponsible!
Man that's beyond irresponsible!
Being late to school because you didn't get up on time is irresponsible....
What Charlie did was incredibly STUPID!
@@OneClassicalLass I agree and it's so worse! How insane protectors of Charlie cannot see that??
She doesn't wanna help others cause of joy or something like that
She wanna help others cause she needs to or has to in order she would feel better about herself
that's why started the hotel but the show shows like Charlie started the hotel cause
cannot handle to see demons being killed ahem but it doesn't matter cause in the show
it's even said that Charlie tries to work through her daddy issues by fixing people.
So nope she wanna only feel better about herself it's not cause of altruist intentions
Charlie is judging selfish hypocrite character.
Charlie also never ever listened to Vaggie only twice but that's all she is bad girlfriend to Vaggie and bad supporter
Vaggie has only Charlie and had a past she wasn't proud of and was worried about losing her
but instead of understanding Vaggie Charlie talked about herself to Alastor like it's her being betrayed by her girlfriend!
She even didn't give at least Vaggie space to let her explain it! Yes if she would be only hurted alright but how acted was totally out of her character
She even treated Vaggie as some kind of monster like she would be worse than all sinners Charlie was so cold at Vaggie
When said coldly about angelic weapons: If you would know that would you tell me? She acted like Vaggie would be her enemy and a monster
Yes they made it then but only cause of Rosie help and it doesn't change a fact how acted with Vaggie
She never ever protected Vaggie when others disrespected Vaggie only once she tried to protect at the end but that's all
she forces Vaggie in doing something she doesn't wanna do and if Vaggie does it it's only cause of Charlie but we can clearly see Vaggie sounded felt like she would be forced
It most of the time seems like Charlie takes an advantage of Vaggie to do something what Charlie wanna
Vaggie deserves better in my opinion
Charlie is worst person character the facts I said I'll not repeat it it's already in answers In why Chaggie is toxic
She made feel Angel dust like he wouldn't matter when was proud of Sir Pentious but seriously!?
Angel dust stayed for free room yes but he wanna redeem himself he just hides it or something like that but
Sir Pentious didn't wanna redemption at the first place before he wanted to betray them only!
Not to mention she made Angel dust play characters game and was shown he feels uncomfortable by it but Charlie just thinks she knows the best.
And worse is that when Angel went after characters game up the stairs saddly Charlie
saw she SAW ANGEL HOW WAS SAD!! And Charlie just in her mind: wow sad but as long as Sir Pentious wanna redeem himself I don't care.
She didn't understand and respect Angels discomfort when Charlie came to his job cause of idiotic hotel! She was arrogant
and even if ok she stayed but she wasn't quiet and was stupid enough to talk loudly to Travis about Hazbin
Yes she said sorry but only cause how Angel dust screamed to Charlie it's with kids too when you scream at them and they cry and say sorry but don't know why but say sorry cause are screamed on
And I know I'll repeat it again I'm sorry XD but she is toxic character
she has trouble emotionally understanding the motivations and problems of other characters.
- Self-reflection is missing, she only perceives her own one-sided view.
- Empathy is rather superficial, she does not understand deeper human emotions.
- Social interactions are difficult for her, she can't take a regard .
- The world is divided into black and white, there is no complexity.
even though she appears in the show as if she feels empathy like the pain of others but it's more superficial and it looks like she's focused on herself on her goal to change the demons end the extermination etc. Or about how others feel, for example sometimes Angel dust or sometimes mostly Vaggie and the other characters.
Charlie is present with a selfish desire to pursue her dream at any cost without truly understanding the needs of others.
Charlie is also selfish
It was selfish of her how in the song Ready for this cannibals they sang about killing and how they will eat angels and Charlie just with a judgmental expression:
ehh Well that's a little violent can we tone it down?
Like what? Yes Charlie is a princess but that doesn't mean she can control their thinking as she wants.
She was so judging than understanding.
they like to be what they want and Charlie sounds so stupid she sounded like she didn't know they were cannibals.
- The demons only sang about their natural nature as cannibals, which is their everyday reality.
- But Charlie wanted to dictate to them how to limit their speech according to her taste.
- At the same time, she clearly did not understand that for them, being a cannibal is their identity, which they are proud of.
- Her rebuke seemed arrogant and she didn't understand their situation
she is selfish some said she gives chances like she maybe gives a second chances but still make others feel not important did others how Angel felt?! Or Vaggie or Lucifer!?
She doesn't listen what others want or their needs they have some they just wanna be the way they are
- The fact that Charlie gives a second chance does not include her further actions and behavior and does not excuse her for the way she behaves.
- As I said, she still does not listen to the needs of others and makes them less important.
- She judges their true nature without understanding their situation, like as I said I'm Cannibal Town when Charlie started a war because Adam wanted to attack and the cannibals sang about how they would eat and kill angels. They were just happy and happy to be the way they are, but Charlie judged them:
Ehh that's a little violent can we tone it down? Ughh they are little murder right now. It sounded like she didn't even know they were cannibals like hello Charlie didn't she realize clearly that cannibals
would be murderous like this? (sorry but that was judgmental and toxic and selfish of her) she just wanted to direct them to suit her taste even though she is the princess she cannot control their behaviors or minds.
-Moreover, some said that Charlie is giving a second chance, but she didn't give a chance to Adam before Nifty stabbed him and why didn't she give Lucifer a chance from the beginning? She called him for help just because she needed something and she didn't even want to call him because she thought he didn't want to see her while he was struggling with his depression.
And then she judged him and said nonsense that: Why is Alastor here for me when my own father is not?) Like this was toxic selfish judgmental from her and she didn't give him a chance from the beginning.
Charlie's words about Alastor in contrast to her father Lucifer were unempathetic and over the top.
Even if she didn't know his true motives, she had no right to judge and compare him like that.
- Lucifer wanted to protect her from danger, even if Charlie didn't know it.
- He was struggling with his own problems and depression and it might have been too psychologically taxing to help her.
- Alastor is a manipulator, his help was with a selfish intention, which she didn't notice, but she still knows Alastor's personality a little
- She didn't take into account her father's emotional state and problems, she only focused on her own goals. (only then did she gave a chance to him, but she still judged him and didn't give him a chance at the beggining).
Her words were inappropriate and showed her lack of empathy towards her own family. It was really over the line and out of line.
Not to mention Charlie admitted by herself that she cannot call him mainly cause Lucifer let the extermination happen.
She is so judging and selfish
she almost never apologized only some times but that's all.
And she is really hypocrite
Alastor at the episodes 8 when was war between demons and angels exorcists and he protected hotel and main cast Adam hurted Al and Al disappeared but others didn't know it and thought he died
Charlie didn't cry or anything she was like in the mind: Wow sad
But when Sir Pentious protected them and died for them Charlie cried as a baby!! And even made portrait of him!
But what about Alastor?!!
Even if Alastor didn't protect them genuinely Charlie doesn't know it lol.
Some people say she is really so empathic HA! She even didn't cry about Alastor
Charlie and empathic?? It's rather superficial empathic!
Charlie is hypocrite toxic judging and selfish.
@@jazzandghost I agree and it's so worse! How insane protectors of Charlie cannot see that??
She doesn't wanna help others cause of joy or something like that
She wanna help others cause she needs to or has to in order she would feel better about herself
that's why started the hotel but the show shows like Charlie started the hotel cause
cannot handle to see demons being killed ahem but it doesn't matter cause in the show
it's even said that Charlie tries to work through her daddy issues by fixing people.
So nope she wanna only feel better about herself it's not cause of altruist intentions
Charlie is judging selfish hypocrite character.
Charlie also never ever listened to Vaggie only twice but that's all she is bad girlfriend to Vaggie and bad supporter
Vaggie has only Charlie and had a past she wasn't proud of and was worried about losing her
but instead of understanding Vaggie Charlie talked about herself to Alastor like it's her being betrayed by her girlfriend!
She even didn't give at least Vaggie space to let her explain it! Yes if she would be only hurted alright but how acted was totally out of her character
She even treated Vaggie as some kind of monster like she would be worse than all sinners Charlie was so cold at Vaggie
When said coldly about angelic weapons: If you would know that would you tell me? She acted like Vaggie would be her enemy and a monster
Yes they made it then but only cause of Rosie help and it doesn't change a fact how acted with Vaggie
She never ever protected Vaggie when others disrespected Vaggie only once she tried to protect at the end but that's all
she forces Vaggie in doing something she doesn't wanna do and if Vaggie does it it's only cause of Charlie but we can clearly see Vaggie sounded felt like she would be forced
It most of the time seems like Charlie takes an advantage of Vaggie to do something what Charlie wanna
Vaggie deserves better in my opinion
Charlie is worst person character the facts I said I'll not repeat it it's already in answers In why Chaggie is toxic
She made feel Angel dust like he wouldn't matter when was proud of Sir Pentious but seriously!?
Angel dust stayed for free room yes but he wanna redeem himself he just hides it or something like that but
Sir Pentious didn't wanna redemption at the first place before he wanted to betray them only!
Not to mention she made Angel dust play characters game and was shown he feels uncomfortable by it but Charlie just thinks she knows the best.
And worse is that when Angel went after characters game up the stairs saddly Charlie
saw she SAW ANGEL HOW WAS SAD!! And Charlie just in her mind: wow sad but as long as Sir Pentious wanna redeem himself I don't care.
She didn't understand and respect Angels discomfort when Charlie came to his job cause of idiotic hotel! She was arrogant
and even if ok she stayed but she wasn't quiet and was stupid enough to talk loudly to Travis about Hazbin
Yes she said sorry but only cause how Angel dust screamed to Charlie it's with kids too when you scream at them and they cry and say sorry but don't know why but say sorry cause are screamed on
And I know I'll repeat it again I'm sorry XD but she is toxic character
she has trouble emotionally understanding the motivations and problems of other characters.
- Self-reflection is missing, she only perceives her own one-sided view.
- Empathy is rather superficial, she does not understand deeper human emotions.
- Social interactions are difficult for her, she can't take a regard .
- The world is divided into black and white, there is no complexity.
even though she appears in the show as if she feels empathy like the pain of others but it's more superficial and it looks like she's focused on herself on her goal to change the demons end the extermination etc. Or about how others feel, for example sometimes Angel dust or sometimes mostly Vaggie and the other characters.
Charlie is present with a selfish desire to pursue her dream at any cost without truly understanding the needs of others.
Charlie is also selfish
It was selfish of her how in the song Ready for this cannibals they sang about killing and how they will eat angels and Charlie just with a judgmental expression:
ehh Well that's a little violent can we tone it down?
Like what? Yes Charlie is a princess but that doesn't mean she can control their thinking as she wants.
She was so judging than understanding.
they like to be what they want and Charlie sounds so stupid she sounded like she didn't know they were cannibals.
- The demons only sang about their natural nature as cannibals, which is their everyday reality.
- But Charlie wanted to dictate to them how to limit their speech according to her taste.
- At the same time, she clearly did not understand that for them, being a cannibal is their identity, which they are proud of.
- Her rebuke seemed arrogant and she didn't understand their situation
she is selfish some said she gives chances like she maybe gives a second chances but still make others feel not important did others how Angel felt?! Or Vaggie or Lucifer!?
She doesn't listen what others want or their needs they have some they just wanna be the way they are
- The fact that Charlie gives a second chance does not include her further actions and behavior and does not excuse her for the way she behaves.
- As I said, she still does not listen to the needs of others and makes them less important.
- She judges their true nature without understanding their situation, like as I said I'm Cannibal Town when Charlie started a war because Adam wanted to attack and the cannibals sang about how they would eat and kill angels. They were just happy and happy to be the way they are, but Charlie judged them:
Ehh that's a little violent can we tone it down? Ughh they are little murder right now. It sounded like she didn't even know they were cannibals like hello Charlie didn't she realize clearly that cannibals
would be murderous like this? (sorry but that was judgmental and toxic and selfish of her) she just wanted to direct them to suit her taste even though she is the princess she cannot control their behaviors or minds.
-Moreover, some said that Charlie is giving a second chance, but she didn't give a chance to Adam before Nifty stabbed him and why didn't she give Lucifer a chance from the beginning? She called him for help just because she needed something and she didn't even want to call him because she thought he didn't want to see her while he was struggling with his depression.
And then she judged him and said nonsense that: Why is Alastor here for me when my own father is not?) Like this was toxic selfish judgmental from her and she didn't give him a chance from the beginning.
Charlie's words about Alastor in contrast to her father Lucifer were unempathetic and over the top.
Even if she didn't know his true motives, she had no right to judge and compare him like that.
- Lucifer wanted to protect her from danger, even if Charlie didn't know it.
- He was struggling with his own problems and depression and it might have been too psychologically taxing to help her.
- Alastor is a manipulator, his help was with a selfish intention, which she didn't notice, but she still knows Alastor's personality a little
- She didn't take into account her father's emotional state and problems, she only focused on her own goals. (only then did she gave a chance to him, but she still judged him and didn't give him a chance at the beggining).
Her words were inappropriate and showed her lack of empathy towards her own family. It was really over the line and out of line.
Not to mention Charlie admitted by herself that she cannot call him mainly cause Lucifer let the extermination happen.
She is so judging and selfish
she almost never apologized only some times but that's all.
And she is really hypocrite
Alastor at the episodes 8 when was war between demons and angels exorcists and he protected hotel and main cast Adam hurted Al and Al disappeared but others didn't know it and thought he died
Charlie didn't cry or anything she was like in the mind: Wow sad
But when Sir Pentious protected them and died for them Charlie cried as a baby!! And even made portrait of him!
But what about Alastor?!!
Even if Alastor didn't protect them genuinely Charlie doesn't know it lol.
Some people say she is really so empathic HA! She even didn't cry about Alastor
Charlie and empathic?? It's rather superficial empathic!
Charlie is hypocrite toxic judging and selfish.
@@ShoukoNishimiya17
Loved reading your rants 😄!
Anyway, Facts, I mean main characters can make mistakes.... But they have to be called out AND endure the consequences of their actions (I say 'AND' because Calling them out isn't really a consequence.).... That's what makes a good character.... Good.
Naruto wasn't perfect, his actions affected other people... And in the beginning he wasn't the most likable child, but you understood why he acted as such, but he still got consequences.
I've heard some critics blame the amount of writers for the story of this show being so bad.... But that sounds like a cop-out excuse to me, a large amount of writers can still produce a good story! They communicate and work together as a team for efficiency, not saying the writers of Hazbin Hotel didn't do that... But- there's a slight possibility given the final product.
From that summary, I feel like this show would've been a lot better if the creator wasn't so obsessed with dunking on Christianity that she forgot to give the characters any reason to exist or any sort of deeper meaning.
Even as a Christian, it had the potential for me to enjoy it. Redemption and found family are probably my two favorite tropes ever. If that had been the central theme of Hazbin Hotel with the moral heart being about selflessness or compassion, then I think I could enjoy it. But there is no redemption (there is no CHANGE), they are not found family (they don't even seem to care about each other much aside from the one guy), every character (again, except the one guy) is selfish, and no one calls them out on it.
I swear, you’re the first person who’s made these critical videos that acknowledged that Lucifer straight up damned all of humanity and still plays the victim over it.
And NOBODY acknowledges it, whether in the show or in the fandom.
Also Charlie’s inconsistent morality, another missed thing I swear people don’t discuss enough. People point out her hypocrisy with Vaggie, but what about Valentino and Adam. How about that old woman she called a bitch. Or when she cut her dad out of her life because he… doesn’t call her sometimes? You’d think this show would be about challenging Charlie’s belief that everyone can be reformed by having them confront her own puritanical thoughts but instead she’s… always right?
And to be clear, I’m not saying Charlie can’t hate Valentino and Adam, it’s completely justified to find them irredeemable people, but it would have been a great moment for Charlie if SHE was forced to confront that feeling of hypocrisy, that maybe the angels are right some people don’t deserve to be redeemed, but rules shouldn’t be so rigid.
Omg I totally agree!! And no you're not alone I thought about it too how Charlie acts selfishly judgmental and acts like hypocrite with others even if she seems nice she isn't.
Poor others I feel bad mainly for Luci and Vaggie they deserve better love and daughter.
And it's worse and she has for sure narcissistic disorder why? I can tell you everything if you wanna but I agree with everything you said!
@@Pomeranian690it’s like, actually fascinating how Viv is really bad at writing kind characters. Charlie is “nice” but she has done nothing to help Angel dust and can’t handle criticism without crying about it (huh. Sounds familiar). Emily is “nice” but is more willing to sympathize with rapists and murderers and not the people heaven is trying to protect. Millie is “nice” but doesn’t react when Moxxie is knocked around or bullied. Stolas is “nice” but the man is an actual sexual predator. Fizzarolli is “nice” but flexes his wealth and straight up murdered some demons with his car in the same episode where he lectures Blitzo about how he has no reason to judge the wealthy. Verosika is “nice” but she’s also a sexual predator!
What is with this writing.
@Birdyboys I totally agree omg! Even me I can write better characters.
And and even Rachel Gardner from angels of death anime which has trauma and problems she is more kind than Charlie.
BTW Millie is quite bad too but she is little better than Charlie cause Charlie almost never protected or listened Vaggie or appreciates her.
Unlike her Millie many times listened appreciated Mooxie and protected him.
Even if some times yes Millie didn't protect Mooxie too but still quite better than Charlie.
But I agree with you with this 💫
If you are more wondering about my facts about Charlie why is judging selfish hypocrite I can tell you 🍀
Emily is selfish judging hypocrite too after all Emily and Charlie have the same personality
He suffers from the same problem Maleficent had In the Live Action Disney remake has. We love The Devil/Lucifer and Maleficent because they are evil. Not because they're "Misunderstood".
@@Birdyboys
Oh my goodness, I agree with you, what IS this writing????? That's too many similarities!
Hmm.... Is Vivzie trying to tell us something?.... 🤔
It's not hard to write a nice person... I'll do it right now!
Groger is a very big burly man, very strong man- But people are scared of him because he is big (muscular) so he's nice so people won't fear him- he bakes for the little children around his neighborhood, he helps his fellow neighbors with errands, he's an all around nice guy....
That wasn't hard at all!!! And he still has room for seasoning!!
But seriously though, that's crazy....
"If angels can do whatever and stay in the sky, then heaven is a lie"
Bro, the existence of vaggie and LUCIFER literally destroys that point. They really thought they cooked with that line XD
How does Lucifer give her free will by giving Eve the fruit? If he gives her free will through the fruit, then that means she doesn't have the free will to eat the fruit to begin with, so how does she even eat it? Was she force-fed? Doesn't sound like he's giving her much free will in making that decision.
That's what I'm saying!
@@AquaMidget If heaven can just make replacement women when they get rebellious why didn't they make a new one. It sounds like Eve ate the apple alone, she didn't offer it to Adam.
I was wondering that too. In the Bible and old testament as a whole, humans had free will but was free of sin. Humans were the caretakers of the earth to use it to live and care for it. The only rule was to not eat the fruit from the tree of knowledge of good & evil. The devil as a serpent makes Eve believe that if she eats it, she and Adam will be like God, and that God fears them eating from it. Eve, not knowing the consequences besides that they will die, and not understanding what death is, eats of the fruit. Adam in turn follows his wife, and realizes they’re naked, and now sin, death, and all aspects which humans once did not face are brought upon them.
Humans are born with free will. Adam and Eve chose to eat the fruit, as they were told not to and told the consequences (even if they didn’t exactly know what that meant). If in the Hazbin universe there’s no free will, then there’s no consequences. Honestly the only way to salvage the opening narrative is for Vivzie to make Lucifer a liar about what happened.
It’s one of the interpretations of what Adam and Eve got from the fruit of knowledge. The most traditional interpretation is it granted the ability to tell the difference between good and evil, making humans moral arbiters on the same level as god. A slightly different interpretation is that it gave them free will, and yeah there’s a problem with God punishing people who had the intellectual range of children for taking something yummy that was offered to them and eating it.
@@cathygrandstaff1957the fruit only made them slaves to sin, if anything it's the farthest to free will that it could had been
1:24:11 For Thor, it’s intentionally made that way because his friends are enablers and are just as arrogant as he is. Thor is a spoiled person, never held accountable for his actions, and no one has given him no as an answer. Him being banished was the only time he was actually facing consequences for something he did. The only person who sees Thor in the wrong for acting this way is the antagonist of this story, Loki. He sees Thor as an unworthy heir of the throne and thinks that he can be a much better King than Thor ever will be. Which is the reason why he schemes and betrays Asgard. He did manage to succeed but only for short time; since Thor had gone through a whole character arc and defeated him.
Ive said this before to people but hazbin hotel is anti everything and is pro nothing.
Its the idea of wanting to be the hero fighting the ultmite bad guys who have all the power. The problum is the wrighters dont have any values beside rebeling for rebeling sake. so the wrighters have to make the bad guys as evil as humanly possabel. That way our heros have a ression to rebel. Its why charlie is cool with canabels but isnt with having them be killed. Its so they can have there rebelion or underdog heros have a ression to fight the ones in power.
Heres an exampel adem is a straw man in the show right. But what is he a strawman of? Rich people? The church? Christan values? The awser is none hes just evil so our heros are good when they fight and kill him.
Yeah, I think you're right about the writers. Your values will always show through in your writing, even if it's not on purpose. And I think that's what happened here
Side note I might be wrong about the wrighters having no values cuz its also possable they all have diffrent values and they all got mashed togther turning into a unfocus mush.
@@vassago1223
No wonder the story is a mess.
It's pro reformation and anti genocide...how is what you are claiming true?
They do have values but not every ally of Charlie is a good person which is the point. I mean...no even the main characters are evil at times too. Eh no Charlie has issues with cannibals and finds them disgusting.
He isn't a straw man, how is he? If it's none then he isn't a straw man, except killing him doesn't solve everything especially when there are evil people in Hell clearly.
@@Jdudec367 what I mean by the wrighters have no values is that there choices are based not on what things are more importan then other things but rather based on what they feel at that moment.
If adam came to the hotel to be reformed would charlie take him in? I belive no. Why? Cuz he made her feel bad.
Charlie/the show/the wrighhter only belive what they feel in that moment. So when moraly gray question happen they dont have an awser besides "idk".
This is why I belive charlie was not acting out of chartar when she got mad at vagie for lying to her and didnt act this way when sir penchius lyed about wanting to be redemed. She felt hurt by vagie but she didnt give a shit that sir Penchius was puting up camras cuz it didnt make her feel bad.
It's so weird how much Charlie is infantilised in her own show. Like, other characters constantly seem to be shielding her and doing everything for her. Like:
- When she barges into Angel's work to ask for time off, she shows no understanding of how things work and when she sets the set on fire, she starts crying like a child and doesn't understand Angel is yelling at her to leave to protect her and reacts like she's been scolded by her parent, even though Angel Dust is the one who gets the shit beaten out of him for her actions. Then Husk has to go talk to Angel instead of Charlie, and Angel forgives Charlie because she "didn't mean any harm" and she literally gets carried out of the scene like a toddler by Vaggie. Charlie shows no understanding of WHY what she did was stupid and she's just upset because somebody scolded her for once. Also, why was Angel protecting her from Val? Isn't Charlie leagues more powerful than Val? Even if he thought Charlie would be too nice to actually fight Val, why doesn't he explain to Charlie about his deal? It's not like he's forbidden to do so - he tells Husk outright he sold Val is soul in their duet.
- Vaggie acts more like Charlie's minder than her girlfriend. She tries to warn Charlie things aren't a good idea multiple times but Charlie gives her puppy eyes and she gives in. Charlie always shoves her responsibilities off onto Vaggie and relies on her for emotional support, which Alastor takes advantage of to persuade Charlie into making a deal with him when she's vulnerable. Vaggie isn't really her own person, she's there to protect, coddle and support Charlie and has no life or goals outside of that.
- Charlie's habits and mannerisms are displayed as very childish. Like you mentioned, she brings crayon drawings to an important meeting, sings songs that outright annoy everyone else (she's the only character who gets this reaction when she sings) like a child with no social awareness, she always looks uncomfortable with anything to do with sex or Angel's job even though she's in a presumably sexual relationship with Vaggie and she responds positively to Alastor patronising her and treating her like a child. Then she's shocked when people laugh in her face and don't take her seriously even though she doesn't even know if redemption is possible.
- During the final conflict she can't handle Adam on her own and instead of the show making her reflect on how she's tried to bite off way more than she can chew and stand on her own regardless of what happens, Lucifer shows up to bail her out and she spends the rest of the battle being carried around in his arms like a child. Also, she supposedly has "daddy issues" yet Lucifer is desperate to bond with her and Charlie doesn't think to try reaching out to her dad until she's desperate and needs his help. It seems more like she's the problem than Lucifer.
Also, I think it's ridiculous that nobody, not Alastor or Husk or Angel, point out to Charlie that she can't possibly understand sinners on a very basic level because she was BORN in hell. She has no idea what it's like to fuck up so badly that you lose everything and have to suffer those consequences. Charlie has never felt the consequences for anything, she just says "I'm sorry" and gets forgiven immediately. She might feel pity for sinners but she doesn't understand them, so how is she expected to encourage them to be better and redeem themselves if she doesn't understand how and why people end up in hell? They really could have addressed this if they had Charlie go talk to Angel after the whole Val fiasco where he rips into her about how her oblivious, short-sighted actions made everything worse for him and she could have been made to understand why "wanting to help" isn't good enough. But no, Husk does Charlie's job for her because he can talk to Angel on his level while Charlie can't, and then she gets forgiven because she's treated like she's too young and stupid to know any better. Honestly the fact that Charlie and Niffty are both treated like children is another example of Vivziepop being terrible at writing female characters.
She isn't infantilised though. No they aren't constantly shielding her or doing everything for her.
-She cried but it wasn't like a child and yeah she realized that she messed up there and that Angel is yelling at her to leave to protect her but does Charlie really need Angel's protection? She didn't reacts like she's been scolded by her parent she reacted like her friend is mad at her. And she didn't know that Angel Dust who gets the shit beaten out of him for her actions tbf. Well yeah Charlie wasn't in the right state to do that at that point, well yeah that makes sense Charlie was just trying to help him why wouldn't he forgive her? She gets carried out but it isn't like a toddler really. No she knows why what she did was stupid it's why she apologized to begin with and she isn't upset because somebody scolded her it's because she messed up and made things worse. Yeah Charlie is leagues more powerful than Val but he didn't want her getting involved with or getting into beef with Val at all as that is his business he feels like and not Charlie's. He didn't have time to explain that in that moment obviously.
-No Vaggie acts like her girlfriend not her minder. Vaggie changes her mind yeah and? Usually when that happens it works out and is a good idea on Charlie's part. No she doesn't e always shoves her responsibilities off onto Vaggie like she never did that in episodes 5 6 7 and 8 and she doesn't soley rely on her for emotional support either. But again that's not what she did. No she is her own person with her own relationships with other characters and wants and desires and goals and her own life.
-No her habits and mannerisms aren't displayed as very childish, or at least not all of them. Crayon drawings? Yeah childish, but sinigng songs can help (well yeah because she tries singing the most and in front of others) she's not like a child with no social awareness more like a sheltered adult which she actually is. Well when it's sudden and out of pocket yeah she would be uncomfortable with that but she isn't uncomfortable with literally anything to do with sex and she doesn't responds positively to Alastor patronising her and treating her like a child but neutrally she responded positively to other stuff really. I mean yeah like they can at least test if redemption is possible but no one wants to give it a try for some reason so yeah she would be shocked.
-Reflect how? She already knows now that she bit off more than she could chew, even with Lucifer helping her she still knows that really. He still abandoned her for many years and clearly didn't try talking to or visiting her so yeah she has daddyy issues, and why would Charlie think to try reaching out to her dad when her dad clearly wasn't interested in her at all? Nah Lucifer is clearl the problem reall.
But that's wrong she can understand them and their problems I mean she knows many sinners already and what they go through she can understand them. But she knows what it's like to fuck up and do bad things at times and besides she grew up with people who experienced that like her dad for example. No she has felt the consequences for stuff, that only happens when forgiveness is deserved and even then there are still consequences like how she messed up trying to get Angel away from Valentino and how that would only make Val more hostile towards her now. No she does understand Sinners, so she can encourage them to be better and redeem themselves and she does understand how and why people end up in hell. That doesn't need to be addresse when it really isn't true, she already could see how her oblivious, short-sighted actions made everything worse for him though and she was
made to understand why "wanting to help" isn't good enough. That wasn't Charlie's job that was Husk's and Charlie can talk to Angel on his level just in a different way, no she gets forgiven because she genuinely was only trying to help and no she wasn't treated like she's too young or stupid to know any better. They aren't treated like children though, and no Viv isnnt that bad e at writing female characters.
@@Jdudec367 Again protector of Charlie you're everywhere 😂😂 nobody who is smart enough will believe in what you say. Didn't you make a fool of yourself enough already?😂😂
@@Pomeranian690 No I'm not everywhere. No they will believe in what I say. Nah I never made a fool of myself.
@@Jdudec367 No not really XD bro I see you everywhere If I would can I would show you proofs or you are everywhere 😂 or what? Would you tell me it's someone else who made an account to pretend to be you mm?? XD 😂
@@Pomeranian690 Yes really yeah, you never show good proof though. No one is pretending to be me.
(WARNING: This is gonna be a pretty long comment.)
Here’s a character I don’t think anyone’s brought up that does what Charlie tried to do about a zillion times better: Leslie Knope from Parks and Recreation.
She and Charlie are actually very similar. They’re both super-positive, happy-go-lucky girls, who have a dream/goal they want to accomplish with a ragtag group of misfits behind them. What makes Leslie the better character? Well, a few things actually:
-She’s not only great at her job as a public service bureaucrat, she LOVES it. It’s her passion. Ever since she was a little kid, she’s wanted to make Pawnee a better place, and she manages to do that in every endeavor she takes. Sure, she makes a few mistakes or runs into a few road bumps along the way, but she always manages to persevere on her own merits and her passion for the work she does.
-While Charlie “attempts” to be everyone’s best friend, Leslie is THE BEST friend. Leslie has so much love to give to the people she cares about, and it only takes one episode to notice that. One of her defining traits is that she’s a master at gift-giving because she knows her friends so well. She sticks up for her friends, inspires them to be better people, and is always planning grand gestures of affection whenever she can. If you’re Leslie Knope’s friend, she will be your biggest and loudest cheerleader.
-Unlike Charlie, Leslie has close and defined relationships with all of the main cast, and what makes that even more apparent is that, while Leslie’s friends love and respect her, they’re not afraid to disagree with her or call her out when she’s wrong about something. While Vaggie exists purely to be Charlie’s yes-woman, Ann is usually the one who keeps Leslie grounded and brings her back to reality. They may be best friends, but that doesn’t mean they have to be on the same page about everything.
-Leslie has flaws, but the show acknowledges them as such and frames Leslie as being in the wrong for acting on them. One of the greatest examples of this is the episode Farmer’s Market. The Pawnee Famrer’s Market gets a new vendor who uses skimpily dressed people to sell his chard, while kids and families are around. Obviously, Leslie wants to do something about this, but because she’s the dangerous combination of being passionate, stubborn, and driven all at the same time, she does NOT handle the situation well at all. She immediately jumps to wanting to kick him out instead of coming up with some kind of compromise, she comes up with a bunch of rules that are clearly targeting the chard vendor in particular, even though he’s not really breaking any real health or code violations, and she even goes as far as to revoke his license without consulting Ben first. While Leslie was right to be concerned that kids and families would see stuff they shouldn’t be seeing, she’s only thinking about herself and what SHE thinks is best. She’s not taking anyone else into consideration, not Ben, not Nolan, the chard vendor in question, not even the other farmers, who say that Nolan is helping their businesses flourish, and as Ben so eloquently put it: When you’re arguing with Leslie Knope, you might as well be arguing with the sun. But unlike the sun, Leslie actually can be reasoned with, and after realizing how her actions and stubbornness have caused the people around her to feel, she realizes her mistake, apologizes to the parties she hurt, and eventually, they do come up with that compromise I mentioned earlier. Meanwhile, from what’s been shown in this video, Charlie never has a moment or episode like this. She’s always right and the people who disagree with her are always wrong.
-Speaking of which, that’s another thing that makes Leslie the better protagonist, how the people who strongly disagree with her are portrayed. Adam is just a one-dimensional jerk who’s only there to give Charlie a villain to fight against and to make her look good by comparison. Ron Swanson, on the other hand, is Leslie’s polar opposite in many ways, but the show doesn’t make him the evil bad guy who’s always there to tear her down, he’s a trusted friend, and source of guidance for Leslie whenever she needs it. Their different personal and political beliefs challenge and strengthen their bond. They learn from each other and make each other better. And if we want to talk about specifically antagonists, just look at Bobby Newport. Bobby essentially fills the same role as Adam, in that he is the person going up against the main character and her big ideas, but what makes him work is the fact that he’s not an irredeemable jerk. Quite the opposite. Bobby Newport was a kid whose dad bought him a political position to make him look good. It’s made pretty clear from the jump that Bobby has no idea what he’s doing or what he’s in for. Which is showcased perfectly with how interacts with Leslie. As Leslie and Bobby spend more time together as opposing candidates for city council, they get to know each other more. Bobby realizes that Leslie is MUCH more suited for the city council than he is, and the two of them even start to form a small friendship. Not to mention, Bobby was created to showcase/satirize the weird world of politics and how people don’t always get to where they are through talent and passion.
I would add more, but I think I’ve covered all of the main things. Leslie Knope is better than Charlie, because she has tons of good qualities to go along with her bad ones, her supporting cast aren’t just yes-man, she’s treated as being in the wrong when she needs to be, and the people who she comes into conflict with aren’t just flat strawmen. Parks and Rec is a really great show, with great overall themes and messages.
I totally agree!! Nto mention also Charlie should give redeeming plan and princess title to someone
else for example even Rachel gardner from angels of death anime
she is so more better than Charlie too
she has trauma and little issues yes but
is kind forgives and is understanding she would know they aren't innocent unlike Charlie which has weird view.
She shouldn't exist since also she has narcisstic disorder and I can say why if you're wondering of course
good analysis btw Xd
To be honest... The first time I watched the Pilot episode(the old one), I thought it's going to be an apocalyptic setting, MC actually maturing, angels are actually scary and mysterious... But no, we got a boring(kinda cringe) MC, useless jokes everywhere, pointless, angels are just... there, i guess.
Honestly, after I watched all of that... yeah, disappointed.
1:50 -2:00 That description of Charlie sounds very familiar for some reason. Almost like she's an author's surrogate without a single bit of self-awareness or irony.
👀
WHHaaaT??
😐😐😐
Whatever are you talking about??🤨
@@OneClassicalLass i have no clue either but "authors surrogate" maybe means... carrying whatever the writer wishes??? Idk, all I know is Charlie got impregnated by Vivziepop apparently
@@SodaFrizz666 What MBThomas is trying to say is that Charlie is Vivienne Medrano's author avatar. Like a self insert except Vivienne Medrano's is horribly written.
@@peachybunny1875
That self insert thing seemed quite obvious from the start...
Not that there's anything wrong with self inserts if done correctly...
Show would have been more appealing if they made the angels less the obvious bad guys. Like either Adam instead of the generic frat guy evil dude he’s a grizzled war vet seeing the worst hell has to offer over the years being the first human angel. But no he’s just generic evil frat guy this show had so much potential and now I just don’t care about it.
ehh I think the frat boy is fine but just let him explain his rationale more often. He's not killing innocent civilians he's killing objectively evil people.
WHY DOESN'T HE CALL HER OUT ON THAT?
@@thegreatest5251the frat boy doesn't fit a man that was forced to live on a barren wasteland for a thousand years, got paradise stolen from him for no reason and has wittesed all the dumb ways humanity found to kill each other.
It should be a miracle that he's able to smile
I just wanted to say thank you for this channel,as a wannabe storyteller and screenwriter,this helped me (while cringing at the thought of the show)figure out what to do and what not to do when it comes to writing characters and stories
Hey, thanks for the encouragement! I'm always excited to see other storytellers and I hope that goes well for you!
@@jazzandghost You're videos helped me when writing my mythology, and now I have a decent sized story with characters! Thanks for the brain juice 🤣
I love that everybody forget Vaggie
Who?
@@christopherbravo1813Vaggie, you know? Charlie's girlfriend, who constantly enables her?
Who the fuck is that one?
❓
This might be a really weird and uncommon take. But I dont think Vivziepop is necessarily unaware that her writing is bad. I think she really enjoys her own bad writing.
With what I know about vivzie, idk she doesn't seem like the most self aware person lol. But I do agree that she probably loves her own writing
@@jazzandghostYeah when people enjoy what they do or how they do things they there are people who would find ways to improve even more and people who don’t see any reason to improve because they enjoy it the way it is. Vivzie does not see the point to change anything because she likes how she writes and refuses to listen to any criticism because it feels like telling her what she likes is wrong but going that way is only self sabotage
As a Christian myself I was always taught that everyone has an opportunity to get right with god when they are still on earth but they decide to keep going into sin. It feels weird that Charlie is trying to redeem these sinners that have no redeeming qualities
@@IronBat-505 Yes, Hazbin Hotel never bothers to explain how redeeming a already judged sinner is unfair to the people who RIGHTFULLY turned from sin in life and earned their way into heaven fairly.
Heaven and Hell aren't pitstops, they're final destinations, your decisions in life determine how you get to these places in death, but if you can just get plucked out of hell for making better decisions (?) and just go to heaven anyway, why even bother at that point? No one would have any reason to live a good honorable right with God (or the divine judgement as they call it in HH, I'm calling that God I don't care.)
It would've been cool if one of the "bad guys" Adam or Sera even made that point... Alas, potential for an intriguing and mature story.... Wasted.
This story is in dire need of a rewrite... Seriously.
Facts. I get that vivzipop doesn’t actually care about Christianity but it’s still dumb that they never acknowledge this point. Alastor pretty much said it himself in the pilot. The sinners in hell already had a chance when they were on earth and they didn’t take it. It’s not like God is like if you do something once you can never get another chance again. No. You have as much time as you do on earth to turn around your life and turn to God. Everyone that’s in hell decided not to do so. Charlie constantly goes on and on about giving sinners a second chance but they already had thousands when they were on earth. Like Alastor said, hell is the final resting point once you die. You can’t get mad at heaven or God and act like they’re the bad guys when you yourself didn’t take the abundance of chances you had when you were still on earth. It’s also worth noting that not everyone in hell deserves a second chance. Valentino for example. It’s such a crime that this show NEVER acknowledges either of these points. But, then again if they did then there would be no show lol.
I feel like it would make more since if we actually had reasons to sympathize with why the characters sinned or even if the show have characters with sins like sex before marriage, being gay, etc. You can't show me someone that clearly likes commiting acts of violence and expect me to believe they deserve to get into heaven. Not to mention, they never mention if they have limits as to who they'll accept into the hotel.
Will they be willing to redeem a rapist? Murderer? Abusive parent/spouse? Did any of these people try to fix these behaviors or get on the right path while they were alive? If not, why? Did they have to act on sinful behaviors to survive? (Stealing, prostitution, etc) Did they just not believe in god? Why should I care that this person is in hell. From what I see, they earned their slot there just like a person who'd end up in heaven.
It is and thats why most fans and characters dont support her ideas.
@@briangriffin5372 if she didn’t care about Christianity, she wouldn’t add those elements to her show
You know, if they wanted to make a point of the system being unfair, why not show normal people in hell?
Yknow, people who don’t murder or rape, but maybe thought something shitty once, or spent a lot of time fapping, or happened to choose the wrong religion or be gay.
All that shit crazy religious people tell you that you’d go to hell for and never question how fucked that’d be.
According to some people, unbaptized babies go to hell.
Imagine babies in hell and tell me why hell should be forever.
I once found a religious pamphlet that essentially said you can go to hell for intrusive thoughts.
If that’s the case, what kind of chance does that give anyone?
The main problem is that people who are trying to say everyone should be their own arbiter of their own morality and there is no objective truth but Christianity is bad because it's judgemental - still believe in objective and universal truths, use the moral categories of good and bad, and ultimately "their own" ideas are actually Christian ideas that have been part of culture and civilization they've inherited for so long they don't even realise are Christian.
One of these people once told me that they don’t believe in objective morality, but they will say things are right or wrong to them. Therefore, if someone did something evil to their subjective opinion, they will call them out or fight them if necessary.
No Christian took all ready common good and bad beliefs
@@tfordham13 there certainly was philosophy and morality before Christians and parallel to Israelite culture. But it really didn't look much like our modern ideas.
@@Cationna it kinda does
@@tfordham13You dont know your history well enough if you think that. Not Christian history mind you, world history.
“There’s a lot of feminist and not-straight people in hell, what are you trying to say with that?”
Got em 😂
This was a really well put together video essay! I can’t wait to see what else you make in the future! ❤🙏
Thank you!
@@jessdanae138 "Ladies and Gentlemen.... We got them."
Qué? Dónde están las feministas en el infierno? Literal la autoridad divina del cielo es una mujer. O qué carajos se piensan que Sera es?
to be fair, we don´t see that much of heaven and have no idea about their sexualities, plus anyone can be a bad person so it´s not surprising that there would be minorities in hell at all. but of course that´s assuming they´re bad people at all, since evidently no one has any idea who can get into heaven and hell is also full of people who eg, value consent (including the literal embodiment of lust for some reason), protect their loved ones (Carmilla and her daughters and maybe even Zestiel??), are genuinely good leaders and give good relationship advice (Rosie) and so on. Heck, we even see a literal CHILD in hell who looks like they´re 10 at most... and Vaggie ofc gets expelled for not killing said child
@@jazzandghostwell tbf
Adam does command an army of only women.
So, he's practically the first true feminist
Hazbin and Helluva Boss both have Viv in control and her awful writing tarnished Hazbin Hotel, she said she valued good faith criticism but she wrote early episodes of Hazbin, Adam is how he is, the terrible logic and so on because of her and skip to Full Moon and it still is awful, she then says Stolas is in wrong too but we get Apology Tour and no Merch that Blitz has that truly shows they're equally in wrong & Blitz gets turned into a villainous individual that "proves" Stolas is better, you can say that Viv didnt write all of it but that doesnt change the fact she greenlit this stuff, she willingly chose to keep everything as is and there's more than just what I mentioned that shows Viv is the problem, the more she gets to stay, write and have control, the more this stuff is going to stay.
@@artistanthony1007 Maybe she needs writing classes or actual writing professionals to guide her way??
Seems like she's trying to wing it and can't refuse any ideas in my eyes... Just listening to the summary made me feel like the writers all had different ideas for the series and Vivzie couldn't dwindle these ideas down and kept all of them...
That's the vibe I'm getting for sure!
Vivzie pop's writing is literally no different from the corrupted hollywood writing
She changes original voice actors for the more popular and more well known cast's,even if said cast wouldn't entirely have that smae vibe or tone that the original voice actors portrayed much better with,one of which was badly voiced acted was "Katie Killjoy" she barely has much screen time in the show but her voice was so out of focus from her personality and charcter it just sucks that people tolerate it just because they "like the show"
What's eveb funny is viv said in her interview that she is willing to "kill her darling's" when that feels very shadily bias,this could really imply she heard the criticism of her own show but knstead of learning from it while making the show she simply shoced it for the second season to excuse her complete lack of skill in writing hee one characters ( and i doubt shes gonna kill her *favorite* darling, especially when Serpentious the least favorite of Her OC's was blasted like a walking joke and only revived to keep the fans of the show drooling and praising her undercooked of a show)
The main character *Charlie* is basic at best and looks like the typical y/n at worst with all the,blonde hair,blue eyes,*rich* brat with a sad (not so sad) typical backstory and the only excuse they gave her for her failings was "she's quirky, she's naive" Bias,that doesn't excuse that shes a terrible MC since the first show...she sounds like those typical preaching with doing no real effort or development to the story (they just shoved all of the information in our throat's without giving us a time to breathe)
(which was over used in the show *literally*) was everyone having daddy issues in the show Instead of issues regarding the present of their story and it's extremely causing the whole series on HH and HB to look mundane and dull and down right annoying and frustrating (sometimes it might as well pisse off some people who understands the bad writing and terrible characters of the show)
And let's not forget people will excuse the main characters flaws because she's "empowering" or " she's making change's" and whatever nonsense
it's really giving off pretty white privilege excuse and bias (something similar that is happening in Helluva boss where blitzo is being treated like a villain and Stoliz as some uwu gay boy when *both* parties are equally bad,it jsut strains and makes the fan hate the ship with how Toxic it is)
even if the show has good potential,the amount of total denial and excuse from both fan's and down right people who barely acknowledge or cares to understand the show in general would annoy the hell out of everyone elses opinions and criticism (at this point the show is failing itself and the only one's praising this show are the Fan's or artists who has better writing for the damn story)
The recasting is weird because the show had a HUGE fanbase already and you're more likely to piss those people off by replacing the current actors rather than draw new people in with a star studded cast.
And, while vivzie might know the phrase "kill your darlings," she certainly doesn't know how to apply it. I actually think that's why pentious wasn't as poorly written as everyone else. He wasn't her darling.
@@jazzandghost Vivienne Medrano recasts the pilot cast because she wanted to become more popular by hiring the more popular and well known cast. You may not know this, but Sir Pentious is based on her old ex-friend and victim, DollCreep. 9 years ago, Vivienne Medrano encouraged her fans to cyberbully DollCreep on DevianrtArt to the point DollCreep had to be hospitalized. She then made a tweet saying "Karma is so awesome, aw man.
@@peachybunny1875Holy crap. That’s awful. I had no idea something like that happened.
@@peachybunny1875
Sheesh,that might explain why her show is messed up,it might just be a reflection of her own self (not to be disrespectful or start a hate base,just my thoughts on her show and writing since it really can happen,some and a lot of small and we'll known authors often ended up portraying their personalities in thier stories which is fine but can be risky if not done right)..which Viv may have shown unintentionally or not in her own show
@@peachybunny1875 Holy crap.... That's messed up.... Did anyone call her out on this publicly? That has to have already come to light publicly yes?
Ah yes, my favorite Bible verse: “to live is canabalism”
This is completely unrelated, but I love how people paint Lilith as a "girlboss" or "feminist" despite the evidence of her being Adam's wife is non-existent, but conveniently ignore the other part of her mythology where she's a serial grapist and an infant killer.
Ooof, i would fucking love it if we're introduced to her and she starts out as seemingly heroic, but later on she becomes more evil, it turns out shes basically like Mahito where she believes humans are inferior or morality is relative, something cool like that.
I would LOVE to see how people react to that.
I’m sorry she WHAT
There's more evidence of Lilith being an alien than Lilith being the first woman
'cause, you know, everything is more than zero
It amazes me that shows like Hazbin Hotel and Helluva Boss have such massive fandoms.
Both shows are unsuffarable
You when people have different interests than you:
@MatthewMurdock-cq8xu But the person is right actually..
@@Pomeranian690 Thanks for proving his point you idiot 👍
@@pjdixon6199 Slow that language alright?? You sound like a child 😂
i had so much hope in both shows because their premises are really good, its just so disappointing seeing them realized this way. im still hoping that they'll somehow pull a big plot twist or smth that'll make it good but like it doesnt seem like that'll happen
I think Hazbin Hotel could've been better in the hands of a better writer.
Hazbin (and Helluva) is what happens when you fall in love with your characters, you turn it into Dora the explorer, which few adults enjoy. We all see Swiper, know the answers and realise the ending, boring, in other words. You don't have to involve, suffering or gore to speak to an adult audience but you DO need some intelligence behind it and be ready to twist a good person into evil or kill a child/puppy/or whatever is needed to carry the story. This is not easy but absolutely necessary or you'll get a bland story, like Hazbin.
That's a good way to describe it! And why I said it's childish not childlike.
@@jazzandghost Thank you 🤍 and yes, you put it well in your video, it's infantile indeed.
So...what? How do you know the ending will be boring? And you're saying we need to see a godo person become evil or see a child pr puppy be killed for it to be adult? What happened to not needing to involve suffering or gore to speak to an adult audience? So is it necessary or not? Make up your mind. And how can you call the story bland when it's nowhere near finished really?
@@Jdudec367 I see you've missed my point. I shall be more clear. When you "fall in love" or "bond" with the characters you're creating, it makes it a lot harder to write an interesting story because you can't bear the thought of them dying or doing something bad with intent. This makes the characters very flat and your story one-dimensional, like stories for children, they are easy to predict and not engaging.
"We all see Swiper, know the answers, and realise the ending, in other words, boring." I swept the last phrases to make it clearer. As you can see, I don't have an opinion on the ending in itself; the statement refers to the story as a whole.
"[...] you DO need some intelligence behind it and be ready to twist a good person into evil or kill a child/puppy/or whatever is needed to carry the story." You need to do what's necessary to carry the story, killing in itself is irrelevant if the character isn't dear to the reader, death and horror do not equal a good story for adults, it's nothing but faint ambience if you feel nothing for those involved and that's exactly the point.
For example: Stolas (Helluva) started as a powerful badass and entitled jerk with a deep love for his daughter. A very good and interesting start. Further on something changed, he can no longer have flaws so the reason for his cheating is mental abuse for 18 years in an arranged, loveless marriage. He got flipped 180 and is now a powerless victim with no self-esteem and nowhere to turn but Blitz, whom he somehow always loved yet treats other imps as furniture. Nothing in the story changed Stolas or revealed his true self, the *writer* changed and _that_ is bad writing.
This is just a snippet of ONE example, I'm happy to talk about it more but since it's already an essay I'm ending it here. I hope that answered your questions.
@@TheLodjur
So kill your darlings? Got it, not sure how that's relevant, it's only been one season and characters have already died.
1. Ok I see then.
No nothing changed he still has flaws, and I mean...tbf that abuse was implied since episode 2 really....nothing changed with that, even then him cheating is portrayed as still hurting his daughter therefore he still messed up really. Eh no he still has flaws like with how he treats people he cares about like Blitz and Octavia for example, and we only see him treat one imp badly one time...not all of them. Wrong, the writer didn't change they just elaborated on his and Stella's past that isn't bad writing just because it didn't go how you personally wanted it to go.
I mean I got answers but still that isn't bad writing.
Charlie is exceedingly ignorant throughout the entire show she literally brought crayon drawings to a meeting deciding the fate of millions which should be a uwu shes so cute i like her thing but instead makes her look idiotic the show also makes her seem incredibly sheltered not knowing about the majority of how hell works her "trauma" isnt anything at all she thinks rehabilitating sinners is as simple as boy scout trust excercises she literally gave money to cherri and told her to go to a club with an addict who shes "trying" to rehabilitate
This ignorance also extends to emily whos probably the equivalent to charlie she literally calls sinners innocent souls somehow she cant gasp the simple concept that hell exists for a reason
They have a horrid problem with double standards for example angel getting sa'd should be sad and we feel bad for him but with pentious its a shitty joke
The pacing , many would argue its due to only 8 episodes being available for a full 1st season which i think is stupid either demand more episodes or just put less into the 1st season issues arise because of the 8 episodes given and vivzies ass writing like emily just immediately siding with hell instead of the place she was literally born and raised in
It also struggles with giving any consequences to people and make bad people seem good for example lucifer caused pretty much the creation of evil but its ok because uwu hes just a depressed twink angel too were supposed to feel sympathetic for and like him which is impossible when hes annoying as shit and his trauma doesnt justify it
Absoloutely nobody in the entire main cast is written well but at the very least they could have made them enjoyable but they couldnt even accomplish that for anybody except for alastor
It would have been interesting if Charlie brought the crayon drawings BECAUSE she din't have any other writing utensils on hand. Because someone at the hotel destroyed all the other writing stuff.
That might have made her choice to show such drawings more understandable/reasonable.
@@DrawciaGleam02 For real shed look a lot less stupid that way
@@DrawciaGleam02 o simplemente hubiera presentado el proyecto de una forma seria. Quizás una carpeta con los antecedentes y mejoras que van teniendo los residentes de su hotel (quizás, dada la personalidad de Charlie, decorada con varios stickers y dibujos). Digo, en un centro de Rehabilitación o en una sesión de terapia debe haber algo que registrado lo que tenga el paciente y el cómo va mejorando. Esto, la redención es un sistema complejo, no es un jardín de niños con actividades como los juegos, canciones y ejercicios de confianza como propone Charlie
i really wish that hazbin hotel was a good show 😭😭 the concept is kickass and the animation is gorgeous but.. the writing.... dear god the writing (ba bum tss!)
also voxes and alastors dynamic is funny imo
Honestly Hazbin hotel feels like an abridged watt pad AU version of the pilot.
There probably was a draft somewhere on the writing floor that could've make for a good show but budget, an oppressive network, bad working conditions, and weird marketing decisions probably made directing the show a living nightmare, and in the end we got this unrecognizable mess.
Like I'm sorry but you can't change a shows, art style, Voice actors, designs, and animation and not expect it to come of as jarring.
From analyzing Hazbin and seeing all the different takes of critics + fans alike, I've come to discover that many joke about the show's writing flaws chalking up to being "MLP in hell" or [insert kids cartoon here].
But the easiest way to describe this show's writing flaws are the "MLP" joke. It is a children's show geared towards adults, but appears more as something like MLP.
MLP, but without any themes, goals, direction, character arcs, and without establishing any of the world's rules/logic. A... pointless, colorful fun fest is what you get when you take that away from MLP.
I don't exactly get *why* an "adult" tv show is presented so childishly, but can't help but demand to be taken seriously. The fans might be able to, but I certainly can't. Though it has been helpful in learning what not to do when it comes to writing professionally! Lmao!
@@SodaFrizz666
🤣🤣🤣
"MLP in Hell" is crazy
Good point! It does feel like a kids show... Take out the drugs, s*x, and swearing... That's kind of what you're left with....
An adult show written by someone who's only ever watched children media, basically
They're way too obvious and open with this being an adult show. Like people are so quick to say "THiS iS nOT FoR KiDs!!" But the show's humor is, what some critics would say, "edgy kids finding out what slurs are". Like old cartoons literally had adult jokes in them that were easy to miss and clever at times, if not shocking to notice.
"MLP in hell"
I like that.
@@T_E_G
The "This is not for kids" excuse is a cop out.
I've seen kids shows that portrayed a lot more maturity.... Shoot even SpongeBob has clever adult jokes that I didn't catch until I was older!!!
Vivzie made Hazbin Hotel because she's still mad at her parents for dragging her to church, something she should have gotten over in her early 20s.
Not to mention she has been encouraging atrocious behavior to her fans for years to the point they pushed Shay and two more fans to suicide over ships.
@@peachybunny1875 Wait, what?
@@Stratoblast The HuskerDust shippers harassed Shay for liking RadioDust on December 2023 to the point Shay committed suicide. After that, Chaggie and RadioApple shippers harassed Charlastor fans this past October that they took their own life as well. One Charlastor fan was 18 while the other Charlastor fan was 20.
@@peachybunny1875
Holy shit that's awful. May their souls rest in peace.
@@peachybunny1875 You have any proof of this?
i don't hate the idea of heaven not exactly being perfect sounds compelling, but the point is that Heaven is better. It has a better structure and treats its own people with decency. Problem is, the show isn't really telling us that. Its more leaning onto "both are just as bad" and i feel like just breaks the whole premise. I do love this show, but i do wish they did things more differently. I feel like if they were given more episodes, things could've gone smoother. Or took the risk and tried to be slower with plot, not telling us more about heaven and focusing on the main characters.
@@XppleCutiie I feel like the whole "both sides are just as bad" thing would never work because one side is full of rapists and murderers while the other... Isn't.
@@guerreiroazul3230
Like I said before...
This story could've benefitted from the 'bad guys' being correct. Have the angels have the moral high ground and when Charlie tries to challenge them, they clap back HARD with very good and even agreeable points....
But Vivzie wanted the angels to be evil so... No nuance for Hazbin Hotel.
@@OneClassicalLass Exactly, but unfortunately a character is only as smart as the writer, so because Vivzie couldn't think of an argument for Charlie to be wrong then the angels couldn't think of one either.
For me, part of the problem is that even when she learns that Heaven is bad and won't accept her idea, she still wants to redeem sinner to go to Heaven. Like, shouldn't you rethink your big idea there for a second?
@Pepperfizz That's cause she is narcisstic she has narcisstic disorder I can say why I think that of course if you're wondering of course🧸
I wouldn’t call Star inspiring….
At least not season four star when it ended with her causing a magic genocide and no one batted an eye.
Yeah, Season 4 Star, sadly, was a victim of very bad writing. She was completely different from how she'd been written in the rest of the show. And the finale was disastrous!
Something that doesn't get brought up much is the show hinges on an idiot plot.
Angels can't die except to their own holy weapons, and the only reason he'll and Carmella specifically has access to sid holy weapons is because the angels just leave dozens of them behind after exterminations. If they didn't leave their weapons behind, the sinners couldn't reverse engineer the weapons to fight back, an angel wouldn't have died, and the exterminations wouldn't get moved up.
This is not necessarily stupid, the Angels simply leave their weapons behind because they believe that sinners will kill each other with them (and they were right).
@Sonic2024freedomera it is stupid because their angelic weapons are the only things that can kill them.
@@TheAnonyomusGuy they don't know that
@Sonic2024freedomera That's even dumber
It doesn't hinge on a idiot plot.
They don't leave dozens of them behind it seems rare for that to happen. Maybe Carmilla took one at first or they lost one on accident?
Speaking as someone who was following the original pilot back when we all thought she'd be doing a "Dante's Inferno meets Black Butler" kind of story about the meaning of morality, the writing changes from pilot to tv show were expected, but man did it sting that she didn't go with her original story concepts...
She doesn’t understand morality. She wants to tell a story of how hypocritical heaven is without understanding the concept of good and evil. From the looks of it she has the pre school thinking. There is a difference between being “nice” and being good/holy.
Yeah, I also wished it was kept simple like in the pilot:
Charlie and friends helped bad but not utterly irredeemable people and people who are misguided yet not unfixable and/or couldn’t redeem themselves when they wanted to in life, genuinely trying to help them in not only wanting to become better for the sake of it but also so that they don’t suffer for all of eternity in Hell.
Also, Purgatory should’ve been introduced properly.
@@DanialTarkithat's the thing, I asked about it and apparently everyone and Viz said it doesn't exist because then hazbin would be redundant from my understanding. Which is funny as freak.
@@MrSophireI agree.
Charlie is judging selfish hypocrite character too
Charlie never ever listened to Vaggie only twice but that's all she is bad girlfriend to Vaggie and bad supporter
Vaggie has only Charlie and had a past she wasn't proud of and was worried about losing her
but instead of understanding Vaggie Charlie talked about herself to Alastor like it's her being betrayed by her girlfriend!
She even didn't give at least Vaggie space to let her explain it! Yes if she would be only hurted alright but how acted was totally out of her character
She even treated Vaggie as some kind of monster like she would be worse than all sinners Charlie was so cold at Vaggie
When said clodly about angelic weapons: If you would know that would you tell me? She acted like Vaggie would be her enemy and a monster
Yes they made it then but only cause of Rosie help and it doesn't change a fact how acted with Vaggie
She never ever protected Vaggie when others disrespected Vaggie only once she tried to protect at the end but that's all
she forces Vaggie in doing something she doesn't wanna do and if Vaggie does it it's only cause of Charlie but we can clearly see Vaggie sounded felt like she would be forced
It most of the time seems like Charlie takes an advantage of Vaggie to do something what Charlie wanna
Vaggie deserves better in my opinion
Charlie is worst person character the facts I said I'll not repeat it it's already in answers In why Chaggie is toxic
She made feel Angel dust like he wouldn't matter when was proud of Sir Pentious but seriously!?
Angel dust stayed for free room yes but he wanna redeem himself he just hides it or something like that but
Sir Pentious didn't wanna redemption at the first place before he wanted to betray them only!
She didn't understand and respect Angels discomfort when Charlie came to his job cause of idiotic hotel! She was arrogant
and even if ok she stayed but she wasn't quiet and was stupid enough to talk loudly to Travis about Hazbin
Yes she said sorry but only cause how Angel dust screamed to Charlie it's with kids too when you scream at them and they cry and say sorry but don't know why but say sorry cause are screamed on
And I know I'll repeat it again I'm sorry XD but she is toxic character
she has trouble emotionally understanding the motivations and problems of other characters.
- Self-reflection is missing, she only perceives her own one-sided view.
- Empathy is rather superficial, she does not understand deeper human emotions.
- Social interactions are difficult for her, she can't take a regard .
- The world is divided into black and white, there is no complexity.
even though she appears in the show as if she feels empathy like the pain of others but it's more superficial and it looks like she's focused on herself on her goal to change the demons end the extermination etc. Or about how others feel, for example sometimes Angel dust or sometimes mostly Vaggie and the other characters.
Charlie is present with a selfish desire to pursue her dream at any cost without truly understanding the needs of others.
Charlie is also selfish
It was selfish of her how in the song Ready for this cannibals they sang about killing and how they will eat angels and Charlie just with a judgmental expression:
ehh Well that's a little violent can we tone it down?
Like what? Yes Charlie is a princess but that doesn't mean she can control their thinking as she wants.
She was so judging than understanding.
they like to be what they want and Charlie sounds so stupid she sounded like she didn't know they were cannibals.
- The demons only sang about their natural nature as cannibals, which is their everyday reality.
- But Charlie wanted to dictate to them how to limit their speech according to her taste.
- At the same time, she clearly did not understand that for them, being a cannibal is their identity, which they are proud of.
- Her rebuke seemed arrogant and she didn't understand their situation
she is selfish some said she gives chances like she maybe gives a second chances but still make others feel not important did others how Angel felt?! Or Vaggie or Lucifer!?
She doesn't listen what others want or their needs they have some they just wanna be the way they are
- The fact that Charlie gives a second chance does not include her further actions and behavior and does not excuse her for the way she behaves.
- As I said, she still does not listen to the needs of others and makes them less important.
- She judges their true nature without understanding their situation, like as I said I'm Cannibal Town when Charlie started a war because Adam wanted to attack and the cannibals sang about how they would eat and kill angels. They were just happy and happy to be the way they are, but Charlie judged them:
Ehh that's a little violent can we tone it down? Ughh they are little murder right now. It sounded like she didn't even know they were cannibals like hello Charlie didn't she realize clearly that cannibals
would be murderous like this? (sorry but that was judgmental and toxic and selfish of her) she just wanted to direct them to suit her taste even though she is the princess she cannot control their behaviors or minds.
-Moreover, some said that Charlie is giving a second chance, but she didn't give a chance to Adam before Nifty stabbed him and why didn't she give Lucifer a chance from the beginning? She called him for help just because she needed something and she didn't even want to call him because she thought he didn't want to see her while he was struggling with his depression.
And then she judged him and said nonsense that: Why is Alastor here for me when my own father is not?) Like this was toxic selfish judgmental from her and she didn't give him a chance from the beginning.
Charlia's words about Alastor in contrast to her father Lucifer were unempathetic and over the top.
Even if she didn't know his true motives, she had no right to judge and compare him like that.
- Lucifer wanted to protect her from danger, even if Charlie didn't know it.
- He was struggling with his own problems and depression and it might have been too psychologically taxing to help her.
- Alastor is a manipulator, his help was with a selfish intention, which she didn't notice, but she still knows Alastor's personality a little
- She didn't take into account her father's emotional state and problems, she only focused on her own goals. (only then did she gave a chance to him, but she still judged him and didn't give him a chance at the beggining).
Her words were inappropriate and showed her lack of empathy towards her own family. It was really over the line and out of line.
She almost never apologized only some times but that's all
And she is really hypocrite
Alastor at the episodes 8 when was war between demons and angels exorcists and he protected hotel and main cast Adam hurted Al and Al disappeared but others didn't know it and thought he died
Charlie didn't cry or anything she was like in the mind: Wow sad
But when Sir Pentious protected them and died for them Charlie cried as a baby!! And even made portrait of him!
But what about Alastor?!!
Even if Alastor didn't protect them genuinely Charlie doesn't know it lol.
Some people say she is really so empathic HA! She even didn't cry about Alastor
Charlie and empathic?? It's rather superficial empathic!
She doesn't wanna help others cause of joy or something like that
She wanna help others cause she needs to or has to in order she would feel better about herself
Charlie is hypocrite toxic judging and selfish
@@ShoukoNishimiya17 lo de Alastor me pegó profundo, más sabiendo la parte en la que canta solo en su torre dd radio destruida y teniendo un colapso mental mientras el resto canta feliz y ni se preocupan de que haya pasado con él
I wish they'd showed Eve. Could've done something interesting regarding hypocrisy and rigidness in the rules if Eve is in Hell and Adam is in Heaven.
I find it funny that the most popular character in this show is adam ironically. Love him or hate him people talk about him alot. More then any other character i have seen. People were pissed that adam died out of nowhere and hope he comes back as a sinner. But vizie says hes not coming back which i feel like shes lying. Maybe adam wont be in season 2 but will appear again in season 3 or 4. If he doesnt appear at all then yea he was wasted character
@@NicholasSanchez-df7ls
I feel like he should've been written differently, it felt like Vivzie just put stuff she hated into Adam's character and boom- Bad Guy.
@OneClassicalLass well adam is based of vizie ex boyfriend so
@@NicholasSanchez-df7ls I didn't know that... It all makes sense now...
I wonder what that relationship was like 🤔
@@NicholasSanchez-df7lsthat makes way too much sense
The most popular is actually Alastor
The thing that kills me the most about this show is how there are just *so many seeds* of good ideas and concepts just absolutely jam packed into this show, but none of them are handled by the writers with any degree of finesse to make them compelling, as well as not taking what they had and actually making something coherent with the limited time they knew they had. Watching the show was an exercise in frustration because I could _see_ how some parts of the show could've been actually intriguing if they'd been handled with more care and more time, but as it is it just all feels like a waste.
Everything worth a damn in this show is either underdeveloped, underutilized, or both at once.
She planted the seeds for good ideas, but tried to make them grow with gasoline instead of water
Tbf I'm fairly certain the Story of hell in the intro was actually just propaganda cause if you look carefully the book has the name "L. Morningstar" so either Lucifer or Lilith could've fabricated the story to make themselves look good or at the very least exaggerated some parts.
I Feel Like Niffty Is Just There.. To Exist. I Know People Are Gonna Disagree With me probably. But Hear Me Out. She Kinda Doesn't Really Affect The Story At All. She Just Kills Adam, Which Lucifer Could Have Done at the moment already. Also she plays a little part in Angel's "Redemption" I guess? And last, Presumably being in a deal with Alastor. That's What I Have to say about Niffty. She's like this to me, At least for NOW. Also..
Is it just me or Emily feels like a self insert character?
All Nice, Isn't mean, supports the main character, horrified at the extermination, Immadiately turns her back on her home, HEAVEN. I don't know.. Kinda seems like a Self-Insert Character To Me.
I Swear This Is The Last Thing I Will Say.
"If Hell is forever then Heaven must be a lie" Feels Like A Twitter Thing To Say.
"If angels can do whatever and remain in the sky" I know They probably refer to Adam and the Exorcists but.. Like bruh, did Charlie Forgot who her dad is?
That's all I have to say.
Humans: *Eat the Fruit of Knowledge, thus creating Hell and damning all of creation to be eternally corrupted by Sin*
Lucifer: What can I say except "You're welcome", for the wonderful world that you know!
Lucifer morningstar, the first spoiled brat in history
@@elmascapo6588 My thoughts exactly.
@@christopherbravo1813 and he still has the gall to lie to his dauther and HIMSELF, that he gave humanity "free will".
I hust can't with this shit. No wonder adam wanted to kill himself in episode 8 if the angel's were this deep into nepotism.
I mean, ffs, they gave him a kingdom to rule and his "wife"billions of souls and creatures to enslave
@@elmascapo6588
"You were the perfection of wisdom and beauty. You were in Eden, the garden of God. Your clothing was adorned with every precious stone - red carnelian, chrysolite, white moonstone, beryl, onyx, jasper, sapphire, turquoise, and emerald - all beautifully crafted for you and set in the finest gold. They were given to you on the day you were created. I ordained and anointed you as the mighty angelic guardian. You had access to the holy mountain of God and walked among the stones of fire. You were blameless in all you did from the day you were created until the day evil was found in you. Your great wealth filled you with violence, and you sinned. So I banished you from the mountain of God. I expelled you, O mighty guardian, from your place among the stones of fire. Your heart was filled with pride because of all your beauty. You corrupted your wisdom for the sake of your splendor. So I threw you to the earth and exposed you to the curious gaze of kings. You defiled your sanctuaries with your many sins and your dishonest trade. So I brought fire from within you, and it consumed you. I let it burn you to ashes on the ground in the sight of all who were watching. All who knew you are appalled at your fate. You have come to a terrible end, and you are no more"
A good point was brought up in this video. Vivzie probably didn’t even think about this but what about the victims of horrible crimes who now live in heaven? Many of the abusers of these victims are in hell but now they get to live in paradise because they’re “redeemed”? How is that fair to the victims? Vivzie probably didn’t think about this because she doesn’t think heaven is good and therefore no one in heaven could possibly be good or a victim of someone in hell.
They are still in heaven, the victims will not magically go to hell because of that.
also Heaven is good what are you talking about???
@ that’s not what I said at all. I said that those who suffered at the hands of the sinners shouldn’t have to accept those same sinners getting to go to heaven because of some redemption that no one in the show even understands.
She did think about that actually. The people who change and go to heaven don't have to live in the same area as the victims though. She did think about this and no she does think heaven is good wdym? She didn't say Heaven as a whole is bad.
@ it’s not about people “living in the same area” it’s about people who spent their lives harming others getting to live in paradise at all. How would you feel if your murderer got to live in paradise because some pampered princess decided they deserved to?
@@Dressyone223 I mean...did they change and do first or?
Remember how cool Lucifer was in Milton's Paradise Lost? And then you have this........
My thoughts chaotic scrambled into a list:
- What else does vaggie do outside of the hotel and charlie?
-Is Nifty also owned by alastor? Howd that happen?
-just overlords (tho as dark as it is i will say the whole Valentino/angel thing is probably some of the strongest writing)
-the egg bois, i just wanna know where they came from
-why do alastor and Lucifer hate each other?
-why did Charlie create a hotel in the first place?
-why doesnt charlie have wings?
-this season has a lot to balance already they shouldve cut some characters out (Cherri bomb (they didnt need her to be the devil on angels shoulder, they are at a bar! Could've been angel battling between old habits and husk trying to make him stay on the path of redemption)Mimzy (honestly cant think of anything she did besides let lucifer making a point of sinners cant be redeemed when they have multiple main characters who have yet to be redeemed or are unlikely like alastor and nifty who are perfectly content)
-Vaggie still speaks Spanish sometimes which feels like she was human before being an exterminator and we don't have evidence to prove thats not how it works)
-why did they let Emily in the meeting when she wasnt supposed to know about the exterminations?
-Carmilla and Vaggie? She WAS fighting for love, Vaggie literally does everything for charlie and its so unhealthy
-Carmilla and Velvettes fight, carmilla had no other option but to fight back, hiding clearly wasn't working
-why did eve eat the apple if she didn't have free will at that point?
-alastor flip flopping between 'i could actually get used to these people' and 'im the puppeter', hes probably one of the most mysterious characters and one of the more poorly written characters
-Husks bar, i know they point it out in the pilot but they also talk about trying to get everyone sober (angel)
-Charlie sees how Valentino treats Angel and LETS him get away with it, i feel like it could've been a more powerful scene. I understand the whole Valentino/angel thing is for angel to overcome but shes THE PRINCESS i feel like she would have enough power to at the very least fight with valentino without angel intervening
-why does the literal princess of hell feel so underpowered? I understand her not wanting to use it against people but her dad can literally fly, shapeshift, and create things, make portals. And all we know about Lilith is that shes also has a lot of influence, but none of that got passed down? All charlie can do is create fireworks, absorb stuff with her hand thing. I guess it makes it so she cant just mary sue her way out of things.
-Charlie is selfish, hasnt thought her plans through, doesnt even know if they work, basically has a servent as her girlfriend who she cant do anything without, and gets super upset at her when things don't go right.
-Adam being super sexist but has an army of only women? Treats Lute like shit but she loves him?? Did adam create the exterminators or are they all just angels who applied for the job cause the show makes it sound like adam created him
-why did vaggie decide killing demons was wrong? She was raised in an environment where that was consider right and she was good at her job too but we never get a reason.
-Vox's anatomy: Can he bathe? Does his face heal naturally or does he need a screen? Does he have a remote? Can you like turn down his volume or turn him off (quite literally) by pressing the buttons on the back? Can you watch a show on him when you don't have a TV?
Nifty is owned by Al it was shown in the pilot since could summon her just like could summon Husker and so on.
Charlie created the hotel cause of she is narcissistic she did it for her emotional high I mean she has to help others to feel better about herself she didnt create it for altruistic intentions the show just tries to confuse you
Problem with the show is that Charlie is a Mary sue.she needs to be aware that not everyone can be redeemed.What I hate about the show is that it has a lot of plot holes.i heard that the show was forced into 8 episodes which I get kinda is a excuse.i feel like bring back adam and giving him a redemption arc would be good cause adam would be a challenge for Charlie and challenges her beliefs While we get to see why Adam is the way he is and maybe get a clue of where is eve or Cain and Abel.i love hazbin hotel and all the characters and show but I’m not like the fan base I can admit when my favorite show has a lot of problems.hazbin hotel is the type of the show where you’ll need to turn off your brain to enjoy….my fav is Adam.
your observations are spot on, my first thought after seeing Charlie and her attitude was: WTF WHAT A MARY SUE!!! (Btw my fav is Adam too)
@@ikebanayukari448 thx.I don’t see how people can hate Adam.Cool design? Check! Cool powers?check! Dad bod with a belly? Check!Good songs? Check!
In fact he’s one of the few characters that have the potential of being good if Vizi brings him back I think one of two things should happen.He becomes a overlord or two he seems out redemption but she better not make Adam weak like I sure to god he better not drop from a Lilith threat level to a regular sinner.
This shows plotholes are almost infinite. Even the music and character designs have been critizied
Does Mary Sue have flaws?
@ kinda
gotta say I don't get the people who complain about the fact that your vid is lengthy. its incredibly well made and well researched and really highlights a lot of problems with this show.
Exactly!! Even me I think as her and I can say people complain cause try to justify the show or Charlie 😂 insane protectors that's all I can say.
my only complaint is the reaction edits/clips from other franchises shoehorned in every other second
Haven't seen the show but it sounds like Charlie is just a Mary Sue.
Nope the show and creator makes her look like Mary sue
but in reality she is selfish judging toxic manipulative narcisstic jerk which acts like is understanding but isn't and
ignores other's feelings (just cares about her narcisstic view her dreams) even if she acts like she cares
she only "cares" for people which wanna try her redeeming plan for example Sir Pentious (even if at first he faked it) why? Cause it feeds her ego she wants to feel better about herself!!
She just uses others for her emotional high and never learns from mistakes only acts like she does.
God even Blitz is far more better than her and he truly learns from mistakes and gets better
I’m a Christian and critiques like Hazbin hotel always baffles me. Like seriously she’s going to say all of hell is innocent like seriously you do know what kind of peoples of people end up to be here. Also as much as people like Angel as a character he was apparently in the mafia dude was not innocent at all. Charlie shouldn’t have been the main character because it takes away from the whole point of the show, you know redemption of a sinner!!!!!
Not to mention also Charlie should give redeeming plan and princess title to someone
else for example Rachel gardner from angels of death anime
she has trauma and little issues yes but is kind forgives and is understanding she would know they aren't innocent unlike Charlie which has weird view.
She shouldn't exist since also she has narcisstic disorder and I can say why if you're wondering of course
Anyone who isn't christian ends up in hell, so no there are innocents here and even those that aren't don't deserve an infinite punishment for finites crimes no matter how big these crimes are
@@grenouillesupreme eso es mentira. No por ser no ser cristiano terminas en el infierno
@@________4993 yes, non christians go to hell, that's the WHOLE POINT of christianity, that you need to be perfect to enter heaven but since everyone is a sinner no one can and we need jesus to pay for our sins so as soon as you're not christian you automatically go to hell, no you could try to make the argument that hell might not even exist in christianity since they make a big deal out of jesus's resurrection and that he said if you dom't follow him you die but if we assume hell exists then every non christian go to it
Those were actually metaphors of what they were trying to actually convey that people that sin aren’t what they seem to be, and sometimes winners cheat.
I've said before that I think Adam's characterization would work a lot better if it were applied to Samson-and if anyone is curious, I'd be more than willing to explain why-but I can think of another individual who would be *much* more effective antagonistic force towards anyone proclaiming the possibility of Hellions redeeming themselves.
In fact, I can think of *seven* such individuals.
While they aren't canon by any means, sources describe a group of Seven "Angels of Punishment" who, as their title implies, exist to deliver God's judgement upon those who violate His laws.
Of these Angels, two in particular would make for an almost PERFECT antithesis to Charlie.
The first of these is Kushiel. For one, his name literally means RIGID ONE OF GOD. His personality practically writes itself. Not to mention the fact that his sole purpose is *punishing sinners in Hell.* Imagine if Charlie burst into the meeting room with her crayon drawings, ready to explain her genius plan for redeeming Sinners, only to come face-to-face with a massive Archangel holding a literal whip of flames who is also personally responsible for introducing scores of condemned to a very literal world of pain.
That being said, the second one might be even better- Raguel, described as the Archangel of Justice, Fairness, and Harmony. His specific purpose is to keep Demons from "overstepping their boundaries", and has even been equated with a sheriff or police officer in the way he carries out his duties. Not to mention, his name-which means "Friend of God"-would imply that he is VERY devoted to his Creator, and view the very *idea* of Sinners being redeemed after being consigned to Hell as an insult due to the implication that God was in the wrong for sending Sinners to Hell in the first place.
Either one of these guys could work as being in charge of the Exterminations-Heck I think it'd be interesting if it was a team effort from all seven Angels of Punishment-and the fact that any one of them is capable of going toe-to-toe with Satan's top minions and possibly even coming out victorious would put pressure on Charlie to find a way to win against them on the *ideological* battleground rather than the *literal* one.
Would have been so peak ;w;
@@yourneighborhoodfbi7518 I know, right?
Raguel sounds like someone that, while would think Charlie's idea is noble (he IS the angel of Fairness and Justice), doesn't think it's realistically doable, so politely rejects it and tells her to leave instead of rudely throwing her out
@ He's also *very* harsh towards Demons.
love the video! charlie kills me as a protag. she's fun, very flawed, but they never let anyone who disagrees with her have a point ever. she would be so much better if anyone could actually have a different viewpoint than her on this redemption project and not just be 'bad'
personally, i went thru something insane during episode 5 where they finally introduced a character that disagreed with charlie and was making sense and then just got rid of it. i wanted adam to give any kind of well crafted argument but they just made him bad, so i was looking for anything else. lucifer being the first character who actually seemingly disagreed with charlie while still caring about her was unfathomably interesting to me, especially since he has been there since the very beginning of hell. of any character in hell, he should know the most.
i was so confused why hadn't she talked to her father before about this? the show SAYS she has daddy issues, but it shows me that if charlie calls, lucifer answers! he answers the first call she even puts through. and it implies he disagrees with her and her hotel, but when she asks him about it over the phone, he doesn't even remember it! it implies he's neglectful sure, but the show also implies it hasn't been open very long. the last time they talked was months ago, seemingly when she first opened the hotel at all. one would think she might call him more often to ask questions about this redemption plan of hers in the first place, since he's the best source of knowledge she has at her disposal - he's actually been to heaven and literally created sin, so he should have SOME insight - but its the "first time she's called [him] in months." it kills me so bad lol. charlie. please. PLEASE! people are dying and she's worried about a phone call lmao.
they paint the disagreement as just an aspect of lucifer's neglect and charlie's family issues. that it is just a matter of him not knowing her, not speaking to her, not believing in her. but the actual thing they're arguing about is about the future of hell itself and the nature of sinners, which to me, is way more than just lucifer just needing to 'believe in charlie.' my parents believing in me is them coming to my dance recital. not them seeing im unprepared and no idea what i'm doing and letting me handle a diplomatic meeting between warring countries. you get what i mean?
i dont know. its so small but it was just so aggravating that they actually introduced a character that had a different viewpoint than charlie and an understandable reason why - he was making POINTS. alastor was literally EATING PEOPLE IN GLEE. - and they just had him agree with her at the end of the episode. WHY! what did she do to convince him that sinners have potential??? that they're worth anything??? she showed him some hotel rooms and he barely interacted with any of the actual residents she was redeeming, and when he did, it was them being violent! they had a chance to show charlie's progress, have her present anything, prove to lucifer that these people are trying to change, and she doesn't. im sorry but i wouldnt give my daughter a meeting with heaven either? if she can barely convince her actual father, then how is she supposed to convince heaven?
charlie thru out the show hears people disagree with her - people with years more experience in this than her, and she just ignores them entirely. just barrels through life convinced she must be right. sin of pride indeed
I mean they do let people who disagree with her have a point like with Lucifer and Sera. I mean they did that with Lucifer though.
We have Sera at least instead of Adam.
She didn't talk to him before this because he clearly doesn't support her dream and idea, he only answered now after many years of not trying to talk to her himself so why would she think he'd even answer? He doesn't remember it immediately but soon it becomes clear that he clearly disagrees with her and her hotel. Eh no it implied that they haven't talked in a very long time actually or at least a long while. Again why call him when he's clearly shown to not be interested in her plan or even her at all in a while? Again she had good reason not do it though.
No they paint it as a matter of him straight up disagreeing with her plan. No it's that and him not thinking that the idea is possible at all. Yeah and it is more then just that but he should still give the idea a chance at least. She is prepared to do what she needs to do though and she has a idea of what she's doing. They are realms not countriws.
She convinced him that they have potential and are worth something because well...look at them they aren't all monsters and people have changed before. Eh no what he saw wasn't them all being violent with people like Vaggie not being bad at all, so they weren't all irredeemable looking plus he can't just leave her alone with Alastor so there's that too. She does prove that they aren't all monster though and that they can change. She can convince her dad though.
No she doesn't ignore them she proves them wrong. Nah she isn't completely confident but she has some confidence.
Star isn't inspiring, she's basically Hitler. She committed a genocide against magical creatures and most likely lead to massive human death when she violated earth so she could date her high school crush. She's the most selfish animated character of all time.
Yeah, hard to process any justification for that. Star sure didn't think it through
Exactly
@@kylethomas9130Well Charlie from hazbin isn't better.
Charlie is judging selfish hypocrite character too.
Charlie never ever listened to Vaggie only twice but that's all she is bad girlfriend to Vaggie and bad supporter
Vaggie has only Charlie and had a past she wasn't proud of and was worried about losing her
but instead of understanding Vaggie Charlie talked about herself to Alastor like it's her being betrayed by her girlfriend!
She even didn't give at least Vaggie space to let her explain it! Yes if she would be only hurted alright but how acted was totally out of her character
She even treated Vaggie as some kind of monster like she would be worse than all sinners Charlie was so cold at Vaggie
When said clodly about angelic weapons: If you would know that would you tell me? She acted like Vaggie would be her enemy and a monster
Yes they made it then but only cause of Rosie help and it doesn't change a fact how acted with Vaggie
She never ever protected Vaggie when others disrespected Vaggie only once she tried to protect at the end but that's all
she forces Vaggie in doing something she doesn't wanna do and if Vaggie does it it's only cause of Charlie but we can clearly see Vaggie sounded felt like she would be forced
It most of the time seems like Charlie takes an advantage of Vaggie to do something what Charlie wanna
Vaggie deserves better in my opinion
Charlie is worst person character the facts I said I'll not repeat it it's already in answers In why Chaggie is toxic
She made feel Angel dust like he wouldn't matter when was proud of Sir Pentious but seriously!?
Angel dust stayed for free room yes but he wanna redeem himself he just hides it or something like that but
Sir Pentious didn't wanna redemption at the first place before he wanted to betray them only!
She didn't understand and respect Angels discomfort when Charlie came to his job cause of idiotic hotel! She was arrogant
and even if ok she stayed but she wasn't quiet and was stupid enough to talk loudly to Travis about Hazbin
Yes she said sorry but only cause how Angel dust screamed to Charlie it's with kids too when you scream at them and they cry and say sorry but don't know why but say sorry cause are screamed on
And I know I'll repeat it again I'm sorry XD but she is toxic character
she has trouble emotionally understanding the motivations and problems of other characters.
- Self-reflection is missing, she only perceives her own one-sided view.
- Empathy is rather superficial, she does not understand deeper human emotions.
- Social interactions are difficult for her, she can't take a regard .
- The world is divided into black and white, there is no complexity.
even though she appears in the show as if she feels empathy like the pain of others but it's more superficial and it looks like she's focused on herself on her goal to change the demons end the extermination etc. Or about how others feel, for example sometimes Angel dust or sometimes mostly Vaggie and the other characters.
Charlie is present with a selfish desire to pursue her dream at any cost without truly understanding the needs of others.
Charlie is also selfish
It was selfish of her how in the song Ready for this cannibals they sang about killing and how they will eat angels and Charlie just with a judgmental expression:
ehh Well that's a little violent can we tone it down?
Like what? Yes Charlie is a princess but that doesn't mean she can control their thinking as she wants.
She was so judging than understanding.
they like to be what they want and Charlie sounds so stupid she sounded like she didn't know they were cannibals.
- The demons only sang about their natural nature as cannibals, which is their everyday reality.
- But Charlie wanted to dictate to them how to limit their speech according to her taste.
- At the same time, she clearly did not understand that for them, being a cannibal is their identity, which they are proud of.
- Her rebuke seemed arrogant and she didn't understand their situation
she is selfish some said she gives chances like she maybe gives a second chances but still make others feel not important did others how Angel felt?! Or Vaggie or Lucifer!?
She doesn't listen what others want or their needs they have some they just wanna be the way they are
- The fact that Charlie gives a second chance does not include her further actions and behavior and does not excuse her for the way she behaves.
- As I said, she still does not listen to the needs of others and makes them less important.
- She judges their true nature without understanding their situation, like as I said I'm Cannibal Town when Charlie started a war because Adam wanted to attack and the cannibals sang about how they would eat and kill angels. They were just happy and happy to be the way they are, but Charlie judged them:
Ehh that's a little violent can we tone it down? Ughh they are little murder right now. It sounded like she didn't even know they were cannibals like hello Charlie didn't she realize clearly that cannibals
would be murderous like this? (sorry but that was judgmental and toxic and selfish of her) she just wanted to direct them to suit her taste even though she is the princess she cannot control their behaviors or minds.
-Moreover, some said that Charlie is giving a second chance, but she didn't give a chance to Adam before Nifty stabbed him and why didn't she give Lucifer a chance from the beginning? She called him for help just because she needed something and she didn't even want to call him because she thought he didn't want to see her while he was struggling with his depression.
And then she judged him and said nonsense that: Why is Alastor here for me when my own father is not?) Like this was toxic selfish judgmental from her and she didn't give him a chance from the beginning.
Charlia's words about Alastor in contrast to her father Lucifer were unempathetic and over the top.
Even if she didn't know his true motives, she had no right to judge and compare him like that.
- Lucifer wanted to protect her from danger, even if Charlie didn't know it.
- He was struggling with his own problems and depression and it might have been too psychologically taxing to help her.
- Alastor is a manipulator, his help was with a selfish intention, which she didn't notice, but she still knows Alastor's personality a little
- She didn't take into account her father's emotional state and problems, she only focused on her own goals. (only then did she gave a chance to him, but she still judged him and didn't give him a chance at the beggining).
Her words were inappropriate and showed her lack of empathy towards her own family. It was really over the line and out of line.
She almost never apologized only some times but that's all
And she is really hypocrite
Alastor at the episodes 8 when was war between demons and angels exorcists and he protected hotel and main cast Adam hurted Al and Al disappeared but others didn't know it and thought he died
Charlie didn't cry or anything she was like in the mind: Wow sad
But when Sir Pentious protected them and died for them Charlie cried as a baby!! And even made portrait of him!
But what about Alastor?!!
Even if Alastor didn't protect them genuinely Charlie doesn't know it lol.
Some people say she is really so empathic HA! She even didn't cry about Alastor
Charlie and empathic?? It's rather superficial empathic!
She doesn't wanna help others cause of joy or something like that
She wanna help others cause she needs to or has to in order she would feel better about herself
Charlie is hypocrite toxic judging and selfish.
What do you mean genocide isn't inspirational?
@@ShoukoNishimiya17 nobody cares you don't know anything about Charlie's character you are just a meat rider for the TH-camr
Another problem I have is how Charlie does a terrible job at redeeming sinners. She could easily stop Angel dust from doing adult film since her father is the ruler of hell and she’s more powerful than Valentino.
It's cause she helps people or tries to help people to feed her ego she is narcisstic that's why she does terrible job at redeeming demons. 😂
But I agree with you! But people justify Charlie bruh
unless the soul contracts are absolute and the problem is more than just using force to remove the opposition. We don't know the intricacies of how far the contracts go. Just that signing your soul away means you lose your autonomy
Have you forgotten the soul contract thing? It’s not that easy to have a contracted soul be freed like that
@@Pomeranian690 Maybe study narcissism before you start to accuse someone of it
@@sailorstar3148 Bro it says the right one which doesn't know what is narcissistic disorder XD
rather
you study that before youll retalk my argument by your weak arguments alright? Cause I know anything about narcissistic I can even tell you and then we can analyse Charlie and narcisstic disorder mmm? Alright? I'm wondering if you'll shout after XD
I can name a lot of the problems I have, as a fan of Hazbin Pilot (and I mean it, I have been a fan for as long as I remember) and a Roman Catholic
Watching Hazbin Hotel Pilot has some interesting worldbuildings and plots, that can be changed or could be maintained for another upcoming episode. The beginning shows us Charlie’s perspective as a witness of an endless purge caused by the extermination, and we get to see that she was saddened by it and she needed to do something to solve the issue (In Pilot, the issue is that the extermination happened to quell the overpopulation issue in hell, which I would count as some necessary evil in their part), then we have established characters; Angel Dust, Alastor, Husk, Nifty, Vaggie, Cherri, Sir Pentious, you can name a few, although only a little characters were the first spotlight in the Pilot. I can see Charlie succeeding in redeeming and helping Angel Dust to overcome his own mistakes in life, as it is one of the solution countering the overpopulation, and I really do care if she will succeed or not. I wanted her to acknowledge some errors and mistakes she did and should not be afraid to learn from it, and also, learn from Vaggie’s advice and others. I know Vaggie is sidelined because Alastor does somethimg to help the hotel, but she deserves the spotlight, too.
But then, the show happened, it made a complete turn on the whole plot, and disregards the theme of Redemption and made it into Heaven vs Hell. This theme upsets me because it is redundant. Charlie wasn’t mature in this show anymore, but was more of childish Mary Sue whose sinners and all other characters should be in her favor, no disagreements, no wrongs, and anyone who is opposite to her is considered the enemy. This is not the correct way to write a main character of the story, there should be arcs, meet the challenges and obstacles and overcome them to achieve their goals, not this type. I started disliking Charlie for what she did to Angel Dust, and it’s sad that she is nit helping Angel Dust overcome his own past mistakes; the worst thing is Vaggie blames it and pins it on Husk to apologize to Angel Dust, instead of Charlie becoming the mediator of these two.
I want to like Hazbin Hotel, but the writing and worldbuilding problems and how the whole Critiquing of the Christianity felt butchered from the way the Heaven and Hell is presented. I am fine with the moral ambiguity of Heaven and Hell, but not the Heaven is evil trope (the reason is what’s the point if both of them are evil, where can I go then?) ‘Those sinners are innocent!’ - Excuse me, does that mean you are condoning evil people to go to Heaven and make the victims suffer all the time? Bad choice of words, Emily! The victims will hate you for that.
It sucks that I have rooted for her to succeed from the Pilot, but she became wasted for much more of deflecting much advices and criticisms.
Well... Charlie was already horribly agnorant from the pilot. Why? I'll tell you
(btw it will be long so be careful)
The two (Charlie and Vaggie) have obviously known each other for a long time, with Vaggie even saying she’ll help her out when she makes her speech. Charlie is instead, annoyed rather, not really wanting to stick to their supposed plan and spice things up a bit with a song. It is understandable that
Charlie would want to do something like this, of course it fits her personality and her character flaws, but this particular scene is our introduction to how Charlie doesn’t necessarily LISTEN to Vaggie. While we see that the two clearly care for one another, Charlie is clearly more interested in doing things her way, even after she said she wouldn’t sing when Vaggie begged her not to and to just go over their script. Now the immediate thing I want to say is no, I’m not saying Charlie should listen to Vaggie 24/7.
Charlie is obviously her OWN person and can do whatever she wants, but we all know how air-headed and blind she is, she’s not necessarily SMART like Vaggie is. If she was, she would have did what her and Vaggie went over instead of going off script, wether wanting to spice things up or not. Speaking of that, we all knew this was coming, Charlie ends up singing indeed, with Vaggie facepalming all the way through. You can tell that stuff like this has happened before, it’s why Vaggie is somewhat controlling because Charlie doesn’t always make the best decisions. There’s nothing I can say that anyone else hasn’t already said here. Charlie should have just listened to Vaggie, and by not doing so, she made herself look like a fool on front of all of Hell, so moving on.
Before we get to the limo scene, I want to say what happened after the crowd laughed at Charlie. I disliked how Charlie didn’t even MENTION how Vaggie was helping her. She’s quick to brag about Angel, a famous porn star who doesn’t even believe in her cause nor give a shit about her, but not the person she’s known for so long, has her back 24/7, helps her out, and genuinely cares about her??? And if she didn’t want to mention Vaggie directly, fine, but at least say “I have someone amazing helping me” or “there’s already a person who believes in me” SOMETHING like that to at least show that she freaking APPRECIATES her. I don’t care if it had to do with Angel as a patron or had to do with clients at the hotel, all I wish she would have done was acknowledge Vaggie’s existence. But no, much like Viv herself, she doesn’t acknowledge Vaggie.
With that said, let’s get to the limo scene.
Of course, this scene is just infuriating to watch for me because not ONCE does Charlie stick up for Vaggie, or even HERSELF for that matter. After they pick up Angel, Vaggie gets on his case about what he did, and Angel clearly doesn’t care, laughing and joking about all of this, and jabbing at them both and the project. Since
Charlie is uwu sad from the fiasco at the news station, she sulks like a child the entire time while this ugly candy cane constantly insults and ridicules her girlfriend.
Now before people come at me, yes, I KNOW Vaggie is a full grown adult and isn’t some damsel in distress, she’s perfectly capable of standing up for herself. However, it just bothers me that
Charlie doesn’t do or say shit, Angel even flat out calls her a bitch and Charlie just sits there, hell, there’s literally
a shot of Charlie SMILING for some reason while Vaggie is pissed. These two are supposed to be GIRLFRIENDS, yet not only does Charlie just sit there and take the bullshit Angel gives her, but she doesn’t even correct or discipline Angel for his shitty actions towards her partner. Once again, it’s so funny that Viv tries to showcase how Charlie “knows she’s in hell” and can take care of herself, yet here she just lets Angel ridicule her and Vaggie, someone who THEIR housing with THIER money. Charlie only gets one line to react to this whole thing, which is “That was really uncool you know Angel”- and that’s it. No “you’re not going to talk to us that way”, no “you’re going to timeout”, no “don’t speak to vaggie that way” none of that. I mention the whole “time out” thing because Viv has stated that that’s how she would discipline misbehaved demons, yet here she doesn’t do anything for Angel. She’s just proving to him that he can do whatever the hell he wants with no consequences, and that he can continue to fuck with Vaggie without her saying anything. Some girlfriend she is.
So, I want to mention one more thing before we get to the clusterfuck that is Alastor, but I think some people might see this and say “Well maybe Charlie was too vulnerable in this scene to do anything”- and to that I say, yeah, she was in the beginning, but literally after Angel asks for the liquor, she’s sitting up and listening instead of curling up in a ball and pouting like she was in the beginning of the scene. Even her lame line she said about Angel shows that she was capable of putting her foot down, yet since she’s too childish, she didn’t. I also understand that you could say she probably didn’t want to jab at Angel because she’s trying to be kind to all demons to help them better, but telling Angel to knock it off isn’t that hard. It’s so funny because this scene kinda showcases how Vaggie is more of the one who’s actually
putting in the work for this hotel and cares, while Charlie just sits back and acts dimwitted. She’s the one in charge of this whole thing, it should have been HER talking to Angel, not Vaggie.
So finally, let’s get to when ALASTOR arrives. Whoo boy.
Once Alastor enters the picture, everyone kinda just ignores Vaggie. She’s pushed to the side, and when she TRIES to speak and voice her concerns, nobody listens to her. Let’s start at the beginning though. When Al knocks on the door, Vaggie says to not let Alastor in because they both know he’s dangerous (even though Charlie’s more powerful than him so I don’t know why she’s so afraid) but she doesn’t listen and let’s him in. I obviously don’t have a problem with that, what
I DO have a problem with is Alastor constantly harassing Vaggie RIGHT IN FRONT of Charlie, while she just stares there blankly. Throughout the rest of the pilot, Alastor is constantly pushing Vaggie to the side, shoving her away, or even outright assaulting her, and the ENTIRE time, Charlie is either blind and doesn’t notice, or is watching this unfold with her OWN eyes and doesn’t do shit. She’s either too distracted by Al, or blatantly watches this asshat push her friend around, just letting it happen. Oh I’m sorry, not just Alastor, but ANGEL as well.
If the limo scene wasn’t enough, once Al brings the bar in for Husk,
Vaggie protests but Angel literally TACKLES HER TO THE DAMN GROUND, putting his hands on her and telling her to shut up RIGHT IN FRONT OF CHARLIE.
And what does Charlie do? Nothing. It’s not even Angel’s fucking CALL to have a bar in a hotel, he’s not the one in charge, Charlie is, and yet she just goes with it and doesn’t say shit to him about pushing Vaggie to the side. It’s fucking ridiculous how all of this shit is happening right in front of her face, yet she doesn’t do or say anything.
So of course, let’s talk about the scene where Vaggie pulls Charlie to the side and talks to her. Charlie does bring up a valid reason to let him help because if she didn’t it would be going against what she believes in, but she says she can take care of herself when.....well she’s literally done nothing BUT prove to everyone that they can walk all over her but whatever. The part that’s important is that Charlie for fucking ONCE actually listens to Vaggie and doesn’t make a deal with Al. I’m actually AMAZED, but still....that doesn’t let Charlie off the hook at all. Not only does she not do shit when the other characters push her friend around and treat her like garbage, but once Al wins her over, she’s so blind to
notice how WORRIED and upset Vaggie is. Vaggie throughout Alastor’s song is constantly trying to get to Charlie but Al purposely pulls her away, and you feel so fucking bad for her because Charlie doesn’t even NOTICE!
It’s disgusting how much of a PUNCHING bag character Vaggie is, just like Moxxie from Helluva Boss.
It also hurts that even BEFORE Al came, Charlie never listened to Vaggie anyway, but now that this big powerful helping demon has entered the picture, she sure as hell won’t now. I SWEAR, Charlie is one of those characters where if you were Vaggie and said Alastor did something out of pocket, she would just go “Oh just go with it” or “oh it’s not THAT bad”. And here’s the thing. To wrap this all up, I KNOW that Charlie is naive, I KNOW that she can make her own decisions when you get to it without Vaggie, but the reason why I truly think she’s a bad girlfriend even in the pilot is just that she simply doesn’t support
Vaggie in the same way Vaggie supports HER. Vaggie will always be by Charlie’s side, but Charlie is just too blind and stupid to care about what Vaggie says, or even take into CONSIDERATION what she says. She didn’t listen to her about the singing, she didn’t stick by her side when Angel ridiculed her, and she didn’t do anything when Al pushed her around. She may be caring, but she doesn’t support her, stand by her side, stick up for her, or do ANYTHING to help her the way vaggie helps her. From Charlie’s perspective, I GUESS you could say she’s just so happy that Al is making her dream a reality, but I’m sorry, I just feel so bad for Vaggie. VAGGIE..👏....DESERVES...👏.....BETTER. 👏
But I agree Charlie wasn't so bad as she is in the series well she was but in the series it's so worse
Loser is not about being terrible.It's about suffering, Angel was abused by Valentino, his soul owned by him. When he returned back to the hotel, he puts on a mask, covering who he really is. Husk was saying, don't think your the ownly one, there are others like you and they completely understand.
@@MsHood1986 yeah another TH-cam covered the song by itself and the true meaning of the song is like “boohoo you’re life is so hard, well tough love sweetheart, you’re not special in that regard . Everyone’s life is hard.”
For me, the whole song feels like it’s saying “Your life is shit, and nothing will change that, so just accept it. But hey, at least you have people to trauma-bond with!” I get that wasn’t the intention, but I don’t know how to interpret it any other way.
@@toastysweaters5692 and to be fair isn’t that the point of art that it can be interpreted in different ways. A certain work could mean something else to someone. For example Disney’s original Pete’s Dragon most people who watch see it as a corny film, for me I think Elliot the dragon is a supernatural element to aid kids in trauma kind of like Matilda’s telekinesis abilities in Matilda. To explain my point on Elliot we know that Pete was horribly abused by the Gogins and Elliot came and rescue him. He shadows him to both protect him from those who would harm him (like pushing the egg seller who kicked Pete) as well as trying to put a smile on his face (the tic tac toe in the cave, him copying Pete in town, messing around before completely disappearing, etc) he is only comfortable leaving Pete once he knew he was safe and in loving environment in order to save the next kid that was in trouble.
I could be reading the film too deep but that was my interpretation of it. So your interpretation of Loser could be as equally valid
VivziPop’s argument for why the characters swear so much is because according to her she’s been around people who swear all the time so therefore it’s natural to her. So what about people who don’t swear or swear occasionally? Are they not natural too? I know people on both sides yet to her only people who swear like a cussing dictionary are real to her. Her excuse is so weak and unfounded.
EDIT: Just to be clear, I have nothing against characters swearing in films and movies, but it’s way too excessive and childlike here.
I mean not all the characters swear a lot in the show so I don't see the issue really. Eh no not all characters swear like a cussing dictionary? How is it? It's accurate to real life.
How is too excessive or childlike? Peope do swear like that irl.
@@Jdudec367 You’ve missed the entire point of my argument.
Firstly, I didn’t say all the characters swore, I said I know people who swear like a cussing dictionary. So yeah, you just pulled a strawman fallacy. Regardless it’s still very excessive.
Secondly, how is it what? Be clear, your point and wording isn’t the best so I don’t know which part of my comment you’re getting to.
How is it bad you might be asking? Because too much and this excessively just makes the movie so childish and immature. Yes it’s natural to swear, but it’s also natural not to swear. Are you suggesting that someone who is able to control their swearing, or at the very least swear minimally is so unnatural and so obscene? My point is saying “swearing is natural” is a moot point because other people can learn not to swear and control themselves.
The only people who swear so much are either kids, angsty teens and rude people.
It is excessive and childlike. Stop trying to pretend it is. But why is it chidlike you may ask? Because what mature adult swears 10000 times a day and for no reason? Most people swear out of anger or when they exaggerate something or as a joke. Rarely in everyday sentences and for no reason. The ones that do are probably either very immature or on something. Why would you want to swear all the time? Think about it? Who, when and why would swear constantly? It’s not actually natural.
TLDR: you missed the point, it’s not the swearing that’s unnatural, it’s the amount of times, yes it’s excessive and yes it is childlike and no natural person swears 10000 times a day and for no reason.
@@Jdudec367
And before you say “waaaah it’s he’ll get over it” I don’t care. That’s a redundant point to excuse criticism. There are people who swear a lot and there are people who rarely swear. Both are natural but it is not natural to randomly throw swear words for no reason and in random places.
@@ulfberht4431 I really didn't miss the point of your argument at all.
"yet to her only people who swear like a cussing dictionary are real to her" That's what you said implying that Vivzie only made characters that swear a lot, so no I didn't pull a strawman fallacy, I'm using YOUR words and logic you used here don't back peddle on that. How is it that excessive or unrealistic?
How is her reasoning weak and unfounded? That's what I mean.
Again HOW is it too much or excessive or makes it childish and immature? Not everyone swears a lot and those that do stay consistent with that, just like people in real life, like I started playing GTA 5 lately and a lot of characters swear a lot there but I don't see anyone calling the writing childish or immature. No I'm NOT suggesting that someone who is able to control their swearing and swear minimally is so unnatural and so obscene, where would you get that idea? Cause you pulled that idea out of thin air. It's not a moot point because again many people swear a lot actually.
That's just not true and to think that shows your flawed and limited understanding of how people talk, many who swear a lot aren't kids, angsty teens or are rude, I know that mself, one of the nicest coolest person I know swears a lot but they aren't a teen anmore or are rude, a lil edgy yeah but not rude or seriously angst, they are actually prretty chill and down to earth.
It isn't that excessive or childlike. I'm not pretending anything. No character in the show wears 10000 times a day either lmao.
No many swear casually too actually. I mean at times they may in everyday sentence at times if just for emphasis. Or they are neither immature or on something , to blinldy assume either of that is ironically immature of you to do. No one literally swears all the time. But many swear casually. And no it is natural, hell some people even use eslurs casually too, try not to get a heart attack at that idea if a normal adult merely swearing a lot is unfathomable to you.
No I did miss the point the point just isn't good, again the amount mostly isn't that bad usually, no it's not that excessive and no it isn't childlike and yeah no one in the show swears 10000 times a day and for no reason.
@@ulfberht4431 Well that's not my point lol I actually counter what you argue. Yeah and no one randomly throw swear words for no reason and in random places in the show either.
Charlie should've been better as a villain.
She is bad actually but the show tries to potray her as a good innocent girl😂
In my personal opinion, Introducing Lucifer(at least in S1) Was the worst decision they could’ve made for Charlie’s character. Like all of the character moments Charlie could’ve had(like defeating or more like fighting with him head to head Adam)were all given to him. And that could’ve been the biggest sign of growth for her. And I also wish they kept Lucifer and Charlie making up saved for season 2. Especially since apparently Lilith won’t even be introduced yet. Another thing, for season 1 I wish they kept Lucifer be portrayed the same way he was in the pilot. At least for that season. Don’t think either are terrible characters, but there definitely could’ve been things handled better with writing and pacing.
Well. . . actually, Lucifer was never really in the pilot. Just some background portraits and a split second silhouetted background shot of him with no speaking lines whatsoever. Saying things like "how he was in the pilot" honestly doesn't make any sense. Because the audience knew next to nothing about what kind of character he was, people were just making assumptions about what he's like, and weren't happy when he didn't fit that long ingrained headcannon.
I also have to disagree with leaving Lucifer for season 2, because I feel the first two seasons would have been an appropriate amount of time for him and Charlie to work out their disagreements on sinners and redemption, and eventually come to an understanding at the end of a second season and become closer. Besides, in the show proper, Lucifer only shows up for a measly two episodes, so how is him being there in any way bad for Charlie's character? That really doesn't make any sense. If anything, the problem was the exact opposite, as he didn't show up nearly enough for us to see more of their differing ideas on redemption, see how they could have challenged each others viewpoints, and how they could have both been correct and incorrect about sinners in general, and both gain good character development from that. Then their reconciliation would have felt more rewarding and earned. I do feel they made Charlie too much in the right between her and Lucifer, especially since Lucifer would obviously know way more about sinners, Heaven and Hell than her. Being wrong about certain things and learning valuable lessons about people from her dad would have actually been good for her character development. And he could learn valuable lessons about people from her too, and also gain good development from that. Just some huge missed opportunities. (More Than Anything is still a gorgeous song though)
I also have to heavily disagree on the "Charlie should've been the one to fight Adam" thing, because keep in mind, while Charlie does have the potential to be very powerful, she has next to no fighting experience whatsoever, as she'd rather help and become friends with people, and only starts to get physical when sufficiently pushed, and even then she doesn't know how to actually fight. And she's clearly lived a sheltered and pampered life for living in Hell. If you actually pay attention to Charlie in the final fight, you can see she was mostly fighting defensively, not offensively. At least until Sir Pentious was "killed", and we all know how well that turned out for her. Especially since Adam has way more combat experience than her, she never would have stood a chance. Now compare that to Lucifer, who is way more powerful than Charlie, and has thousands of years of experience ahead of her, and the grudge he and Adam would have with each other for obvious reasons.(albeit, they didn't highlight that very well, which was a huge missed opportunity, as an Adam and Lucifer rivalry would have made so much more sense and been more plot relevant than the stupid, unfunny thing with him and Alastor that came out of nowhere and made no sense) And since Adam broke his end of the deal about Hellborns not getting hurt during the extermination (which again, I wish they had made that more clear when Lucifer showed up at the battle) It HAD to be Lucifer vs. Adam.
I also really hate how viewers seriously think an obviously inexperienced female character needing to be saved by someone stronger and more experienced than her, especially when that someone is a parental figure, is "detrimental" to her, or somehow makes her "weak". Especially so early in the show since all we have is a short 8 episode first season. It shouldn't even matter that it was a man who saved her. I just never liked that sentiment. Suddenly being able to fight and defeat someone who is obviously stronger is NOT what makes a female character "strong". Especially since this is a toxic sentiment I've been seeing more and more these days. And this doesn't just apply to Hazbin by the way. She should at least be given some time to gain more experience and learn to hold her own in a fight. If she still needs saving from bad situations on and on again as the show goes on, or Lucifer is continuously used as an easy fix for her problems, then I feel that criticism will become valid.
I'm really sorry that this was pretty long by the way.
@@priscillapineda3204 Thanks for the response, but I never said Charlie was “weak” I just said HER defeating Adam would’ve been a good sign of character growth since the two of them were often shown on opposing sides. On top of that, we’ve seen more of Charlie and Adam then of Lucifer and Adam. So it just would’ve been more rewarding to see. And I’m very much aware Lucifer had no speaking lines. I was referring to how he was portrayed. In a lot of the shots they show his shadow as this powerful figure(which is why a lot of fans thought he would be evil at first). And I don’t think it was a terrible Idea for him to be introduced story wise. I said it was BAD FOR CHARLIE’S CHARACTER. More so her development. Charlie is a very confusing character because they never clearly explain why she wants to do this. You could say it’s because of her father but he was directly opposed to the idea and was kept away from Charlie. She could’ve definitely been inspired by her mother, but who knows how keen Lilith was of the idea.
@@priscillapineda3204 Also a lot of the depth she was implied to have especially regarding her childhood, was kind thrown out the window when her and her dad made up in one episode. If you’re wondering what I’m referring to, I’m talking about the phone call Charlie had with her mom in the pilot and she says “Maybe dad was right about me” which maybe says Lucifer wasn’t entirely keen on Charlie’s ideas and was hard on her, which is why I said “he was different from the pilot” or at least how people thought he was. The revealed him to be a nurturing parent who’s just worried for his daughter’s safety. Which there is nothing wrong with. But I feel like it robs Charlie and Lucifer from having way more interesting characters and dynamics. I actually am EXTREMELY similar to Charlie. So it would’ve been nice if they didn’t make up in one episode, because seeing Charlie’s “daddy issues” or knowing she had them was really healing for me. And I am by no means calling the show bad, or calling the characters bad, or saying it should’ve changed or went another way. This is just my opinion and my projections and observations. Basically what I’m saying is that people thought Lucifer wouldn’t have agreed with Charlie’s plans because he was evil, not because he was concerned for her. And I’m not saying the characterization they gave him in the show as wrong, but I wish they handled it in a more fulfilling way and giving their dynamic more depth. Some of the depth they were implied to have in the pilot.
I disagree that wasn't that bad really. I mean...she did help fight Adam though. I mean he is the same from the pilot, he didn't believe in her at first.
@@Jdudec367 Can you elaborate? And if you’re referring to Lucifer when you said “he is the same from the pilot” note that I am talking about HOW PEOPLE(IN THE FANDOM)PERCEIVED LUCIFER. They thought Lucifer would be evil and more hard on Charlie based on some of Charlie’s dialogue and how they would always show him during the pilot as this mysterious power shadow(hence when he was towering over Charlie in the “Always Chasing Rainbows” song when Charlie says “Why have I always been a failure?” Also alluding to the fact that she has been told that from her father. And during the pilot it seemed to be a common theme with Charlie’s character about her “being a failure” and that honestly would’ve been a really good character detail if they had kept that up with Charlie in the show. Since a lot of people believe her character to be boring.
Why are you so smart???? Like you have such a deep understanding of religion and good/bad writing. I agree with almost everything you say! I love your point that you can’t judge something you don’t understand based on seeing someone do it poorly.
Hot take (based on general opinions): I dislikes Charlie the most. Vaggie annoys me the most. Sera, Lucifer and angels in high position are pathetic. Alastor doesn't impress nor intimidate me like the pilot and that let me down so much. Husk, Lute and Adam are tolerable and likable to me because one is level-headed, acts reasonable like an adult while I really enjoy the others' song and bashing on MC. The hell and heaven system is shit.
I agree with you. But about Alastor
they are totally the same I mean personalities.
Just in the show his intentions and act are more extended than in the pilot that's why.
I prefer so much more Al than Charlie 😂
@@Pomeranian690 Same about prefering Alastor. I just feel like the way he showcases himself in the show is more on "all bark no bite" side. Like I don't see the process of his evil doing that much nor threatening when every of his reputation is only tell not show.
@Bluegleam It's shown he is evil psychopath without redeeming qualities
but I agree it wasn't too much shown at the show
it's cause if Vivzie would do that all people would probably find out that and realize Alastor is evil psychopath with no redeeming qualities.
And Vivzie probably doesn't want that or I don't know
@@Pomeranian690 ok how about we don't use that word, let me be clear i'm not psychologist but psychopath sociopath is disorder and linked them to being evil is ableist. There are people who have this disorder they don't feel other human emotion like guilt sympathy empathy etc it didn't make them a monster. Their brain just have different way to work let me tell you something people who can feel sympathy empathy guilt remorse they are capable of being horrible person. I do agree he doesn't have any redeeming quality but please don't be ableist
@evanderzufarsetiawan2511 I'm not saying all psychopaths or sociopaths are evil and that are monsters I never saw them as monsters I only say Alastor is evil psychopath. And still I love this character.
Not to mention my boyfriend is evil and psychopath and I love him the way he is and I dont say he is a monster. So I don't judge people with psychopathy or sociopathy.
But still thanks to point it out but I know not all people with these conditions are evil and that aren't monsters ❤
I have been to old for this cartoon even back when it was first on TH-cam. So I had literally only watched the pilot once. But it didn't hit me back then that the Lesbian couples names are Charlie and Vaggie. A gender neutral but masculine leaning name. And one that sounds like female genitalia. This would have been clever. In the late 80s. Now it is like a brick to the face.
Also I judge "to old" not by age specifically. But instead by if the thing I am experiencing is new enough to me to be interesting. This show would have being interesting to me in 2012 and down right original to me in 2008. But I had seen or thought of things like this long before 2019.
I would say that doesn't mean you are too old, just you are very aware and the thing doesn't bring something new. When it comes to shows, you are almost never too old for it. I think it is more wisdom and possibly change of taste.
But yeah there is no subtly here for the imagination.
The reason she’s named vaggie is actually bc she was an angel (suprised) named by THE Adam himself. In the show he’s a womanizing POS. Hope that clears it up
Names are just names. They went with them because they sounded cool. They're not necessarily trying to make a statement but maybe Vaggie they are. Guys are named Dick
Charlie is bisexual so they will be called a sapphic couple and her actual name is Charlotte, but she prefers to be called Charlie.
For me, the moral grey area in the concept of hell has never been whether or not people who've done horrific crimes deserve to be punished for it. It's the unilateral application of eternal damnation as a punishment for everyone regardless of the severity of the crime. Everybody knows sex traffickers are bad people who probably should go to hell, but is the lesbian couple next door _really_ equally guilty? If the story was meant to explore the concept of moral gray areas it shouldn't have focused on extreme cases and instead focused on the everyday people who get marginalized by Christianity and it's effects on social politics. That would certainly justify the idea that heaven is too judgemental. By focusing on Charlie trying to "redeem sinners" it's only further reinforcing the social constructs it's aiming to deconstruct. She's also unilaterally applying her morals to all sinners which paints them all in the same light despite the fact that there is a difference.
Unless the idea is that Charlie's ambitions are meant to be a parody of Christ, but given the show seems to be unwilling to challenge her mindset, I'm not too sure that was the intent.
Aside from the dilemma that the Christian community has had for ages over deciding which parts of the language around hell are literal and which are metaphorical, one interesting thing I can note is that Jesus directly addressed this grey area of punishment versus crime. In the book of Luke, chapter 12, Jesus uses a parable (stories often using similes to parallel real truths) about a man’s household of servants. A servant who abuses his fellow workers is given capital punishment; another servant who abuses no one but knowingly defies instructions receives many lashings; and a servant who did not know precisely what he was assigned to do, but did inappropriate things regardless, receives very few lashings. This is presumably where many Christians derive the idea of “circles” or “layers” of hell. So whatever a sexually promiscuous but otherwise decent person faces in hell (which, in fact, is NOT because of their sexual immorality, but rather for not seeking relationship with the Messiah, their Creator), is never going to reach the levels of absolute punishment for those who do evil deeds toward others.
p.s. Edgeworth pfp is a chad move, much respect
@@marche800 That is a completely fair question to ask about hell. And, in short, my answer would be that the idea of everyone receiving equal punishment simply is a false assumption and not what the Bible teaches.
Let me back up that claim. For example, in Matthew 10:15, Jesus says “Truly I say to you, it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah on the day of judgment, than for that city.” In John 19:11 he says “…the one who handed Me over to you has the greater sin.” We can also look at the old Testament. Proverbs 6:16 says “There are six things the Lord hates, seven that are detestable to him….” And we can go back further to the Torah like Numbers 15:22-30 which lays out what to do in cases of unintentional sins vs. intentional ones.
Throughout the Bible, there are distinctions made between different sins. They are not all treated equally. They do not all receive equal judgment, as Jesus explains himself.
The word “sin” really just means a crime as defined by God rather than by a government authority. The fact that a number of actions are legally put under the category of “crime”, does not mean they are all equal. Many people might “go to jail”, but they will not have the same experience even if in the same place. Some might go to solitary confinement, for example, and not everyone will have to serve the same sentence. In a similar way, all sins are worthy of “going to hell”, but there’s no reason to assume that everyone has the same experience there or even that it’s static (unchanging).
Hope this explanation makes sense. Feel free to ask follow-up questions! Have a good one
@@marche800 The problem that i with hell is the Hazbin universe is that hell isn't a punishment, there's no flame, lashings or anything of the sort, it's just a place where bad people go to and that's it, nothing about the place in itself is really bad
@@guerreiroazul3230 seems the only punishment, is having a likelyhood of terrible neighbors, and anything those neighbors might do to harm you.
@@kylethomas9130 That's just a description of NY
Honestly my issue with the show boils down to the concept. It basically requires moral complexity but it just doesn't do that....at all. There is clear cut good guys and there is clear cut bad guys there's no grey area or darker aspects to what's considered good people or good aspects to who are considered the villaons. Every single sinner at the hotel basically has their human lives which is arguably the most important thing to know when it comes to them wanting to redeem, completely ignored. Like with, Alastor and Vox yeah you can tell they belong in hell. But what did someone like sir Pentious do when he's misguided at best? Hazbin hotel's concept is one that basically requires moral complexity but they ignore that resulting in a lot of the writing in regards to redemption just not working.
spoilers:he was a coward who allowed women to get killed by Jack the ripper and he didn't say a thing
Thank you for getting at the aspect that I found really frustrated me: the nonsensical morality system which doesn't even make sense in terms of its own attempts to talk about ethics, choices, and redemption, etc. but also in terms of mythology because if 10000 years passed, where the hell is MOSES? There's a St. Peter but no Jesus? etc.
So..... where does GOD fit in all this? Isn't GOD the one who wanted his Angels to try to SAVE Sinners, after Jesus Christ died? Also where is Jesus Christ in this? You know, the SON OF GOD? The Paragon who said to Turn the Other Cheek and Forgive? To help the Angels Help the Sinners Seek REDEMPTION?
Oh I guess that Stuff doesn't Exist and all the Angels are Sick, Twisted, Murderous Psychopaths.
This show feels like a Villainous ripoff
Whatever helps you cope pal
@@pjdixon6199 No, seriously. Think about it for a minute. Both shows have their role as good and bad switched (kinda). Sounds familiar, doesn't it? Plus, Vivzie has had a small history with Villainous.
it really does
I've heard that they share some animators
@Stratoblast Dont bother with them, they're not going to see from your side.
Look, my problem with Charlie is that I don't understand her or Vaggie, there are people who say that "you didn't understand the character" but for me it's literal, I don't understand Charlie, to begin with what I understood is that Charlie wanted make his parents proud by proving that his father was wrong and that there was goodness in these beings and thus continue his mother's legacy of bringing prosperity, ok very good, but my problem is why do you create an establishment dedicated to a service that you do not Do you know if it is possible? No It's the same as you telling me that she had the hypothesis that it was possible and that she wanted to try it with Ángel Dust and Sir Pentius, and upon verifying that they did come up, then she would create the Hazbin hotel, we don't know how she came up with the idea either. That is to say, she read it in a story, she saw it in a movie, what was her thought process to arrive at the idea that redemption in hell is possible? Also, what parameters is she using to define who a person is a good person from a bad person?, just be nice to them?
Charlie is a she
@@justhereforfun5725 They might be using a translator tbh
The biggest problem with the show to me was Adam being an extremely poorly made strawman villain who wasn't even strawmanning properly - his belief that all sinners are evil and deserve death isn't even completely illogical and actually kinda makes sense, especially if you extrapolate how in "the lore", what little of it Hazbin has, he was the first man literally created by angels to rule the world, and didn't do anything particularly wrong (since he ended up in heaven), but he had to suffer, and watch humans around him suffer, because of consequences of Charlie's parents literally allowing capital-e Evil into existence, which isn't even addressed in the show. Also Lucifer apparently brags about how his wives cheated on Adam with Lucifer which is just really low.
Adam is not allowed to have a point, to be a relatable character with motivations that make sense, because if he was, we would all rally behind him since Charlie is such a poor character that viewers would side with a charismatic rock over her.
And that's a real shame because the show had an interesting concept and premise but just isn't mature enough to actually tackle it in any good way. Also, Penacony may have been a bit messy and Sunday's beliefs should have been explored more, but it was extremely enjoyable regardless and I wish Hazbin was at least half as good in that regard
В сериале, где нет глубины, не стоит искать глубину в персонажах
@Yalovayahznepomnimena да знаю, но просто разочаровывающе
Is not adressed in the show because this show is not biblically accurate
@Sonic2024freedomera it's not even inaccurate, it's more of a "use Bible when it's convenient then disregard or gloss over the parts that don't fit the narrative"
@@ВасилийМедведев-з5в They don't use the Bible in the entire series, so not even that, it's not an adaptation, it just uses elements, but is that bad?
The thing that grinds me about this show is how dull hell is lore wise.
There’s multiple ways you can take hell. In fact Hazbin Hotel is very similar to Gehinom, the Jewish Equivalent some sects believe hell to be like, where everyone no matter how nice briefly or for a long time depending on the person, experiences either lashing, shame etc. until they feel redeemed for their misdeeds.
In Hazbin Hotel, this concept would work beautifully. Charlie has a basis for people being able to be redeemed, but is still challenged on whether these people can be redeemed, as those who have stayed their long term, are truly terrible people.
Instead, hell is not described, it’s even purposefully, stupidly vague. Heaven not having any real way to get in is even sillier.
1:52:34 - 1:53:05 - Replace "Charlie" with "Vivienne" and the whole thing starts to make sense.
Charlie does do wrong things. She gets Angel Dust in a lot of trouble for one thing.
I agree! Finally someone who doesn't protect Charlie blindy.
Charlie is judging selfish hypocrite character too.
Charlie never ever listened to Vaggie only twice but that's all she is bad girlfriend to Vaggie and bad supporter
Vaggie has only Charlie and had a past she wasn't proud of and was worried about losing her
but instead of understanding Vaggie Charlie talked about herself to Alastor like it's her being betrayed by her girlfriend!
She even didn't give at least Vaggie space to let her explain it! Yes if she would be only hurted alright but how acted was totally out of her character
She even treated Vaggie as some kind of monster like she would be worse than all sinners Charlie was so cold at Vaggie
When said clodly about angelic weapons: If you would know that would you tell me? She acted like Vaggie would be her enemy and a monster
Yes they made it then but only cause of Rosie help and it doesn't change a fact how acted with Vaggie
She never ever protected Vaggie when others disrespected Vaggie only once she tried to protect at the end but that's all
she forces Vaggie in doing something she doesn't wanna do and if Vaggie does it it's only cause of Charlie but we can clearly see Vaggie sounded felt like she would be forced
It most of the time seems like Charlie takes an advantage of Vaggie to do something what Charlie wanna
Vaggie deserves better in my opinion
Charlie is worst person character the facts I said I'll not repeat it it's already in answers In why Chaggie is toxic
She made feel Angel dust like he wouldn't matter when was proud of Sir Pentious but seriously!?
Angel dust stayed for free room yes but he wanna redeem himself he just hides it or something like that but
Sir Pentious didn't wanna redemption at the first place before he wanted to betray them only!
She didn't understand and respect Angels discomfort when Charlie came to his job cause of idiotic hotel! She was arrogant
and even if ok she stayed but she wasn't quiet and was stupid enough to talk loudly to Travis about Hazbin
Yes she said sorry but only cause how Angel dust screamed to Charlie it's with kids too when you scream at them and they cry and say sorry but don't know why but say sorry cause are screamed on
And I know I'll repeat it again I'm sorry XD but she is toxic character
she has trouble emotionally understanding the motivations and problems of other characters.
- Self-reflection is missing, she only perceives her own one-sided view.
- Empathy is rather superficial, she does not understand deeper human emotions.
- Social interactions are difficult for her, she can't take a regard .
- The world is divided into black and white, there is no complexity.
even though she appears in the show as if she feels empathy like the pain of others but it's more superficial and it looks like she's focused on herself on her goal to change the demons end the extermination etc. Or about how others feel, for example sometimes Angel dust or sometimes mostly Vaggie and the other characters.
Charlie is present with a selfish desire to pursue her dream at any cost without truly understanding the needs of others.
Charlie is also selfish
It was selfish of her how in the song Ready for this cannibals they sang about killing and how they will eat angels and Charlie just with a judgmental expression:
ehh Well that's a little violent can we tone it down?
Like what? Yes Charlie is a princess but that doesn't mean she can control their thinking as she wants.
She was so judging than understanding.
they like to be what they want and Charlie sounds so stupid she sounded like she didn't know they were cannibals.
- The demons only sang about their natural nature as cannibals, which is their everyday reality.
- But Charlie wanted to dictate to them how to limit their speech according to her taste.
- At the same time, she clearly did not understand that for them, being a cannibal is their identity, which they are proud of.
- Her rebuke seemed arrogant and she didn't understand their situation
she is selfish some said she gives chances like she maybe gives a second chances but still make others feel not important did others how Angel felt?! Or Vaggie or Lucifer!?
She doesn't listen what others want or their needs they have some they just wanna be the way they are
- The fact that Charlie gives a second chance does not include her further actions and behavior and does not excuse her for the way she behaves.
- As I said, she still does not listen to the needs of others and makes them less important.
- She judges their true nature without understanding their situation, like as I said I'm Cannibal Town when Charlie started a war because Adam wanted to attack and the cannibals sang about how they would eat and kill angels. They were just happy and happy to be the way they are, but Charlie judged them:
Ehh that's a little violent can we tone it down? Ughh they are little murder right now. It sounded like she didn't even know they were cannibals like hello Charlie didn't she realize clearly that cannibals
would be murderous like this? (sorry but that was judgmental and toxic and selfish of her) she just wanted to direct them to suit her taste even though she is the princess she cannot control their behaviors or minds.
-Moreover, some said that Charlie is giving a second chance, but she didn't give a chance to Adam before Nifty stabbed him and why didn't she give Lucifer a chance from the beginning? She called him for help just because she needed something and she didn't even want to call him because she thought he didn't want to see her while he was struggling with his depression.
And then she judged him and said nonsense that: Why is Alastor here for me when my own father is not?) Like this was toxic selfish judgmental from her and she didn't give him a chance from the beginning.
Charlia's words about Alastor in contrast to her father Lucifer were unempathetic and over the top.
Even if she didn't know his true motives, she had no right to judge and compare him like that.
- Lucifer wanted to protect her from danger, even if Charlie didn't know it.
- He was struggling with his own problems and depression and it might have been too psychologically taxing to help her.
- Alastor is a manipulator, his help was with a selfish intention, which she didn't notice, but she still knows Alastor's personality a little
- She didn't take into account her father's emotional state and problems, she only focused on her own goals. (only then did she gave a chance to him, but she still judged him and didn't give him a chance at the beggining).
Her words were inappropriate and showed her lack of empathy towards her own family. It was really over the line and out of line.
She almost never apologized only some times but that's all
And she is really hypocrite.
Alastor at the episodes 8 when was war between demons and angels exorcists and he protected hotel and main cast Adam hurted Al and Al disappeared but others didn't know it and thought he died
Charlie didn't cry or anything she was like in the mind: Wow sad
But when Sir Pentious protected them and died for them Charlie cried as a baby!! And even made portrait of him!
But what about Alastor?!!
Even if Alastor didn't protect them genuinely Charlie doesn't know it lol.
Some people say she is really so empathic HA! She even didn't cry about Alastor
Charlie and empathic?? It's rather superficial empathic!
She doesn't wanna help others cause of joy or something like that
She wanna help others cause she needs to or has to in order she would feel better about herself
Charlie is hypocrite toxic judging and selfish
@@ShoukoNishimiya17LET EM COOK👏🔥🔥🗣️
I believe Charlie is a good person with good intentions but that like everyone else at the hotel, she has a lot of growing, self-reflection, and redemption to be done.
The important part is wanting to be better.
If she's hurt someone, it starts with sorry.
@@ShoukoNishimiya17
No she isn't a judging selfish hypocrite character.
She does listen to Vaggie though only a couple times did that not happen, no it happened more then twice and that isn't all and she isn't a bad girlfriend to Vaggie at all and she isn't a bad supporter either.
Well yeah but Vaggie hid that truth to her for years when it's a huge deal Charlie had every right to be upset and Vaggie being worried isn't an excuse to lie about something like that she should have known better really.
No Charlie tried to understand Vaggie, and well when Vaggie hides that from her for years yeah that kind of does feel like betrayal in a way.
No she DID give Vaggie space to let her explain it but Vaggie just didn't explain it. It wasn't out of character at all again Charlie being upset makes perfect sense.
No she didn't treat Vaggie as some kind of monster now you are just lying about Charlie really, she didn't act like Vaggie was worse than all sinners, Charlie wasn't really being cold at Vaggie.
No she didn't act like Vaggie would be her enemy and a monster but considering what Vaggie didn't tell her before she had every right to say that.
No it's also cuz of Charlie and Vaggie themselves in the end really and nah how she acted with Vaggie was fair really.
Well that's because she didn't usually see others disrespect Vaggie to be fair aside from like once or twice and one of those times was when Lute disrespected Vaggie which Charlie was too busy at the moment to deal with that which was fair really.
No she doesn't force Vaggie into doing something she doesn't wanna do she just convinces Vaggie to do it really, yeah true but she still does agree in the end really and no Vaggie didn't sound like she was being forced she just sounded annoyed by the idea of doing it is all but she wasn't being forced.
No wrong she never took advantage of Vaggie to do something that she wanted she just asked for her help really.
Nah they deserve each other really.
No she isn't the worst person character at all and that isn't facts that is just wrong really, except no Chaggie isn't toxic.
Nah that was not her fault he should have known that of course he matters, she didn't tell him that he didn't matter or anything.
Yeah he did wanna redeem himself but that doesn't make what Charlie said bad at all really.
No Sir Pentious did eventually wanna redeem himself after he actually agreed to stay at the hotel.
No she did understand and respect Angel's discomfort but she clearly messed up there unintentionally and the hotel isn't idiotic. No she wasn't arrogant she just made a mistake is all but that doesn't mean she was arrogant.
I mean no she makes mistakes but she isn't actually stupid she is just a bit naive is all and talking about Hazbin is fine and that wasn't a stupid mistake on her part.
No she was gonna apologize even if Angel didn't scream at her though. No it isn't like with kids as Charlie clearly isn't a kid or is like one.
Nah she isn't a toxic character.
No she doesn't have trouble emotionally understanding the motivations and problems of other characters like she does clearly get those things.
-Except no she self reflects and changes and improves as a person and becomes better at leading for example like in episode 7 so no self reflection isn't missing, and no she perceives all views not just her own and her view isn't one sided either.
-No her empathy is genuine not superficial, no she does understand deeper human emotions and she experiences them herself.
- No social interactions aren't difficult for her but she does mess up at times, no she does take a regard a lot really.
-no the world isn't divided into black and white, there is complexity and Charlie knows that.
No she doesn't have trouble emotionally understanding the motivations and problems of other chara
No her feeling the empathy and pain of others isn't superficial at all it's genuine and her being focused on her goal is fine and she isn't just focused on herself either. No she focused on how others feel too.
No she isn't presented with a selfish desire as her desire is to help people out and have them improve as people which isn't selfish at all and she wants to pursue her dream but not at any cost as she isn't selfish like that and no she does understand the needs of others clearly it's why she helps out the way that she does.
No Charlie isn't selfish.
That wasn't selfish of her to do that she just wanted them to calm down as she wants them to improve in some way at least for their own good so that wasn't selfish really even if her expression was judgemental.
She knows she can't control their thinking but she doesn't want to do that and she was just suggesting that they tone it down which is fine really.
No she wasn't that judging really and she understood enough.
No Charlie doesn't sound stupid and no she didn't sound like she didn't know they were cannibals she clearly knew that but she did want them to change and improve still.
-Yeah which Charlie would want them to maybe tone that down and to slowly get better as people....like that isn't at all a bad thing.
-No she didn't want to dictate them how to limit their speech according to her taste she just suggested (not fucking dictate you disingenuous liar) that they take it down a notch and she was trying to slowly get them to improve as people and get better really.
-No she did understand that for them she just wanted them to improve though, yes she knows that but that doesn't mean that they can't slowly improve and get better as people.
-No her rebuke didn't seem arrogant and she did understand the situation
No she isn't selfish.
No she isn't selfish, no she doesn't make others feel not important that isn't true and no Angel not feeling important isn't on her, same with Vaggie and Lucifer that was their own problems not caused by Charlie at all.
No she does listen to what others want and and their needs they have, she just wants them to improve really.
-No it does include her further actions and behavior why wouldn't it? And the way she behaves is just fine really nothing wrong with it.
-Except you are wrong she does listen to the need of others and she doesn't make them less important.
-No she does understand their situation but she also knows that they need to be better too, yeah Charlie judged them but that is fair as they are still sinners and they could slowly improve as people really.
No it didn't sound like she didn't know they were cannibals she clearly knew that, yes she realized that clearly cannibals would be murderous like that but that doesn't mean that she can't get them to slowly change though. (no that wasn't that judgemental of her she was being fair really and it wasn't toxic or selfish of her either) no she didn't want to direct them to suit her taste she just wanted them to improve as people is all and yeah clearly she cannot control their behaviors or minds she knows that.
-She did give a chance to Adam but Adam wouldn't listen to her even when she was giving him a chance so she had to act in self defense and it's not like she ordered NIfty to stab him or anything it just happened, and she did give Lucifer a chance from the beginning she just wasn't sure if she should actually call him herself or not after he didn't talk to her for a pretty long time at that point but she still was willing to give him a chance she just was unsure about actually initiating it herself is all. Which is fair for her to think that when Lucifer separated from her years ago and never really called or talked to her in a long while.
@@ShoukoNishimiya17 Considering his actions her judging him is fair really and she didn't say any nonsense, (well yeah that is a good point as Alastor supported her but her own dad didn't) no that wasn't toxic selfish judgement from her it was fair judgemet really, no she did give him chance but he wasn't living up to it really.
No they weren't unempathetic or over the top they were fair and reasonable really.
She did know his true motives though, no she did have a right to judge and compare him like that with how he was acting and behaving really.
-No she knew that of course her dad wanted to protect her but that doesn't mean that all he did was right though.
-Yeah no it clearly wasn't too psychologically taxing to help her especially when he was happy just to see her after going for years ignoring her and not coming to see her or anything, and with that being the case then clearly he would want to be with her and it makes him happy so his problems and depression wouldn't affect him choosing to help her and if anything him helping her would make him less depressed really.
-No she did notice that but Alastor can still and did end up manipulating her and it made her think that maybe his intention wasn't all selfish.
-No she did take into account her father's emotional state and problems but she also could see his flaws too, no she isn't only focused on her goals she focuses on others too. (no she always gave a chance to him, she judged him but again that's fair given the context and no she did give him a chance at the beginning when she decided to call him in the first place).
No her words weren't inappropriate and she doesn't have a lack of empathy towards her own family. No it wasn't over the line or out of line at all.
Well then you are wrong she DID apologize at times and yeah that's all but that's all she had to apologize for really and even then she apologized for some things she really didn't have to apologize for either.
Considering his actions her judging him is fair really and she didn't say any nonsense, (well yeah that is a good point as Alastor supported her but her own dad didn't) no that wasn't toxic selfish judgement from her it was fair judgemet really, no she did give him chance but he wasn't living up to it really.
No they weren't unempathetic or over the top they were fair and reasonable really.
She did know his true motives though, no she did have a right to judge and compare him like that with how he was acting and behaving really.
-No she knew that of course her dad wanted to protect her but that doesn't mean that all he did was right though.
-Yeah no it clearly wasn't too psychologically taxing to help her especially when he was happy just to see her after going for years ignoring her and not coming to see her or anything, and with that being the case then clearly he would want to be with her and it makes him happy so his problems and depression wouldn't affect him choosing to help her and if anything him helping her would make him less depressed really.
-No she did notice that but Alastor can still and did end up manipulating her and it made her think that maybe his intention wasn't all selfish.
-No she did take into account her father's emotional state and problems but she also could see his flaws too, no she isn't only focused on her goals she focuses on others too. (no she always gave a chance to him, she judged him but again that's fair given the context and no she did give him a chance at the beginning when she decided to call him in the first place).
No her words weren't inappropriate and she doesn't have a lack of empathy towards her own family. No it wasn't over the line or out of line at all.
Well then you are wrong she DID apologize at times and yeah that's all but that's all she had to apologize for really and even then she apologized for some things she really didn't have to apologize for either.
No she really isn't a hypocrite.
Well she wasn't super close to Alastor to be fair and she didn't know a lot about him either and she was busy already too so she couldn't afford to cry any more at that moment.
Well yeah they at least know that Pentious died unlike Alastor and he was pretty nice and they knew a lot about him unlike Alastor and they didn't have enough time to mourn them both a lot when they were pretty busy as is and when they weren't even sure if Alastor was really dead or not.
Alastor wasn't forgotten but again Charlie was already busy and they didn't really know if he was dead or not.
Yeah but she also didn't know if he was dead or not it's fine really.
Nah she is empathetic and her not crying about someone she didn't know a lot about and who she wasn't even sure if he was dead or not doesn't mean she isn't empathetic.
Nope it's genuine empathy really.
Nope wrong she wants to help others to make their lives better and to genuinely help them out not cause she needs to or has to in order to feel better about herself that isn't it at all.
No she isn't a hypocrite. Nope she isn't toxic judging or selfish.
Heartbreak Hotel was indeed underwhelming. And I didn't even watch Episodes 7 and 8! It was sheer torture trying to get through each episode, I was checking the time every 5 minutes. Charlie's childish, schizo behaviour and inability to understand that others aren't exactly of a similar frame of mind to her get her all caught up in herself, and it drove me up the wall. Vaggie has no personality whatsoever and merely echoes her thoughts. Lucifer, originally the greatest of all angels - a deadbeat doomer dad, with a fetish for ducks and unwilling to assert his authority. And Lilith is calling the shots and left him to do goodness knows what. Alastor is a paper tiger, The 3 V's are forgettable, as is Nifty. Angel's potential was never fulfilled, Husk was there, and only Ser Pentious truly delivered. Adam was the greatest character. A ton of filler, the entire series was incredibly fast-paced, rushing back and forth like it had ADHD. And similar to what Reaper said in his critique of the show - Heartbreak Hotel is "safe edgy," it's using vulgar language, innuendo, gore and mockery of Christianity (which has been commonplace in cartoons for 20 years) to seem cool and out there, but is instead very sterile in its delivery and is more of a hindrance than a help.
I’m gonna offer my take on sone legit criticism too. Charlie is supposed to be based on a Marionette doll but she doesn’t look much like one.
Oh, interesting! Do you know if that was supposed to represent something, like she was being controlled by someone else? Or just a random design choice?
@@jazzandghost , I’m not sure, I would guess design choice though. I never read anything about that Charlie was controlled but your question makes sense.
A doll??? I thought she was supposed to be a goat???? I don't see either in her design!
@@OneClassicalLass , Exactly, Charlie doesn’t look much like a doll, period. As far as goat, I don’t think that’s true, but Viv did mention goat hooves once, I personally thought that idea made no sense.
@@blaria95 I personally thought Sheep was hers.
4:35 I'm not done with the video yet... but never in my life I would expect to see Lucifer from Obey Me mention followed by Veggietales in a Hazbin Hotel video
"Everything is sh*t and we all suck."
-St. Paul (paraphrased, of course)
Hazbin Hotel (and Helluva Boss) takes me back to Panty and Stocking. A series with a unique art style but hypocritical views and religious taboos and blasphemy. Presbyterians are a subset of Protestants (if it's not Catholic or Orthodox it's Protestant). The only reason the Protestant church exists is because the Catholic Church was corrupt during Martin Luther's time. There's a line from Stephen King's Children of the Corn that states very clearly what offbrand Christianity is. The main character, Bert, holds up a bible and asks "are you changing all of it or only the parts that suit your needs?" Later he says, "any religion without love and compassion is false."
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
As a bible thumper myself that paraphrase there is hilarious!!!
Omg the editing is so annoying in the beginning i wanna leave, but i wanna hear the critique. Why make it this hard on you audience.
Thanks so much for including your religious perspective! I'm a Christian, and I don't take issue with using aspects of Christian belief and tradition in fantasy media. I love the Keanu Reeves Constantine movie, which has an angel villain, and I've sunk sooooo many hours into the Diablo games, where angels aren't always strictly good. So I strive to make it clear to people that I take issue with Hazbin Hotel's treatment of religious themes for reasons outside of feeling "offended" by a "blasphemous" depiction or anything. If Vivziepop is trying to critique moral absolutism, it falls flat because the moral codes of individual characters are so unclear and inconsistent. If she's trying to critique the history of Christianity, it falls flat because everything has a vague air of being Christianity-derived but utterly lacks in meaningful traits of the religion. If she's trying to critique theocratical tyranny in all its forms, it falls flat because some characters who exercise power over others are treated as justified/not a big deal while others are not. If she had based this story on any other religion, these would still be consistent thematic problems that severely harm the show.
Personally i think Story of Hell in the beginning is so bad cause it paint Lucifer as victim when he's not that i headcanon that book to be a propaganda in Hell targetted toward Hell-spawned to make Lucifer and Lilith looks better.