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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 พ.ค. 2024
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Today's episode is all about heaven. Many arguments against God's character are made on the concept of hell. I share those, but here I show why heaven alone should be enough to make the believer doubt.
I cover 7 reasons heaven doesn't live up to the hype!
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#heaven #whatheavenisreallylike #heavenisntreal #atheism #mindshift #atheist #exchristian - บันเทิง
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Morning all, this is one of my favorite topics and one i dont see addressed nearly as much. Hope you enjoy.
Don't worry about heaven's "failures" -- you won't be there and we won't miss you.
Were you raised a Christian? I assume you were.
@@solomonessix6909 I'm unaware that God ejected Satan for not worshipping Adam, except in the Koran.
Does a similar story appear in the Bible?
Jesus the Christ, in plain English, is Joshua the Chosen.
There are two Books of Joshua one from Tribe of Ephraim and one from Tribe of Judah.
Joshua Son of Nun was from Tribe of Ephraim. Born in Egypt.
Everyone agrees the Tribe of Judah's Book of Joshua is not Jesus the Christ (Joshua the Chosen).
Anyone read the Tribe of Ephraim's Book of Joshua? It's called the Samaritan Chronicle.
Extra: did you know Joshua Son of Nun was originally named Hoshea Son of Nun? Moses changed his name with the implied meaning "May God save you from the conspiracy of the scouts".
There was no Moses.
@@ready1fire1aim1 What are the implications of that?
I don't know what your point is, assuming you're right.
As an introvert with ADHD, the thought of being somewhere surrounded by other inhabitants of the afterlife for eternity is actually my idea of hell
Diseases or naturally born ailments won’t exist in heaven so it doesn’t matter.
Saaame. I grew up Jehovah's Witness and our options were non-existence, paradise or, if you were extra special, heaven. I preferred non-existence or paradise, and if paradise, I always just pictured myself alone playing with animals. I had no interest in hanging out with JWs in the present or in the afterlife. Heaven seemed boring, and not in a good way.
Imagine being punished with Hell because you don't get along with everybody. It's one thing to be obligated to worship God forever, but even more-so alongside those you despise. Maybe that is Satan's real reason why he was banished from Heaven. It happened once, it can happen again.
If you don't want to be in heaven, I'm sure God will willingly annihilate you.
He didn't bring you to heaven to suffer.
@20july1944 sure because god wouldn't create a place where there's an overwhelming amount of human suffering right?
It's actually counter-intuitive. People think you need to beleive in God in order to be moral, but so much immoral behavior is done under the umbrella of relgion and a beleif in god.
Exactly!
That's not true at all. God is the father of morality, we do nothing and think of nothing but evil, God is love and justice. You don't believe in God, then you don't believe what love actually is. For your last point, there was a news story about two gay guys who adopted two autistic kids.... to molest them. Using your logic, since evil is done under some christian beliefs, therefore all Christians are evil, this news story means all gays are child molesters and/or pedophiles.
you guys have def not thought this through LMAOO
@@txeazy Compelling. Color me saved - you’re good at this lol
@@Time_Is_Left i appreciate it, like and follow for more
The Twilight Zone (original series) absolutely NAILS this conversation. In the episode "A Nice Place to Visit", this gangster is shot by the police while attempting to rob a pawn shop. He is then escorted to the afterlife by what he perceives as his guardian angel. He is taken to a large palace with all the possible things you could want: He is surrounded by beautiful women, he always wins when he goes to gamble at the casinos, he has an unlimited supply of delicious food, alcohol, cigars, and material objects. He's having the time of his life but after a while, he grows increasingly bored of the repetitious nature of the afterlife. He eventually seeks his "guardian angel" and tells him that he misses living a life of sin and vice with the earthly thrill of unpredictability and mystery. He would even go as far as beg to be taken to the "other place". The angel reveals himself as who he really is and replies, "Technically, this is the 'other place'. What makes you think this is heaven?".
I just watched that episode a minute ago! That episode was wild!
Twilight Zone is so goated. The only black and white show I actually like. Andy Griffith is decent too.
honestly that's a rly good depiction of hell...... no lasting goodness can be found apart from God. A "heaven" with everything we desired - food/sex/pretty things/entertainment - but without God would end up feeling like hell. Our souls were made by God to enjoy a relationship with Him.
@@augustine.c8204technically, the truest form of hell in the Christian mythology, was non-existence before dante’s inferno
Thanks for bringing that one up. I grew up watching the Twilight Zone. That is one of my favorite episodes, though I haven't seen it in a while. Your post brought it all back.
I lost a son at the age of 20 in a car crash. When he was 8 he asked me where do we go when we die. I didn't know what to tell him since I am an agnostic but not to scare him I told him that we sing and pray to god, and he asked me what else do we do, I told him we sing and listen to music while worshiping god, his answer was, I don't want to go because I'll get bored-
That kid already knew
It's wrong to think it would be boring. The God who has created the whole universe with the infinite knowledge we can gather in it, surely is not running out of things to do.
Sorry for your loss.
I think this guy is a troll
Finally...sad...but HONESTY out of the mouth of babes! (Sorry about your son's death. But wish he could give us all some honest answers now.
I've always figured that heaven is just a psychological version of hell, but I could never explain it so eloquently.
Thanks for that and for being here!
Blah blah blah
How about Read the Bible dingo boy
This hits so hard! I had a conversation with my Christian mother recently and I was honest and told her I felt like she had checked out of this life. Almost like I didn’t have my mother anymore, and she responded “I have checked out”. The degradation of our once close relationship has been so incredibly sad to me.
Im so sorry to hear this!
When it comes to truth,
God is the Lord of glory, the glory we clearly see in this reality is a small portion of the glory in heaven. Gold is a element with small glory but it is a beautiful element as there will be other glorious designs. We will have the same freedom apart from sin in this world like designing technology that we can possibly even fathom like people couldn't fathom a cellphone a few hundred years ago. With God all things are possible and he will give every good gift with the possibility of infinite good. God made creation in wisdom and I believe the reason we started in a world we can rebel against God's good design is because creation has to know that a choice outside of God's will is corruption and evil, because there is only one that is good and that is God. I chose good and if God is good and made creation then creation is good, we are not as wise as God and would be a fool to trust our own reasoning over God's. Jesus is the way truth and life, choose good and avoid corruption so we can be with Christ. God bless you all.
I Really don't believe You but that Proves My Religious Indoctrinations. but when You call me a iar it Proves How Wise You are.
@@skwills1629he's talking about his mother...
Sad. My mom wanted to check out, but we wouldn’t let her. She lived 50 years with a family of atheists (husband & 4 children), so she was used to us. She died at 92-yrs. Dad is 94 and enjoying life.
Most Christians simply gloss over these logical problems with heaven with the phrase that our imperfect minds cannot conceive of heaven. This is of course a monumental cop out.
Try M. Scott Peck's book, "In Heaven, as on Earth." Plenty of wonderful work to be done, "up there."
If you don't want to go to heaven, or, you wish to choose the kind of Heaven you believe you would prefer, it will be hell.
Why?
Because no human actually knows what would satisfy them for eternity.
Yes, though it is of course, mostly true given our finute minds and heaven's infinity.
Of course our minds cannot conceive heaven. Can you actually think of something that would satisfy you forever? No, you can't. But you know who does? According the the religion which talks about the heaven, God knows everything about you, therefore you can be most certain that heaven will be satisfying. The logic here is flawless
How is it a cop out? There's things God will understand that we can't even begin to comprehend.
1 CORINTHIANS 2:9
KJ21
But as it is written: “Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man the things which God hath prepared for them that love Him.”
This is spoilers, but The Good Place tackled the idea of heaven being monotonous. All the residents had been there for thousands of years and were miserable because the "highs" of eternal happiness were no longer effective. The end solution the characters came up with was actually to give all the residents a chance to leave existence, like a second death. It was truly beautiful.
Like the SCI-fi classic Zardoz, starring Sean Connery and Charlotte Rampling!
And I still think the Good Place system Chidi created is the best way to go about it because not only is there room to improve, there is room for it to end.
Sounds like the movie Zardoz
my argument with this is that there’s a possibility we won’t have a concept of time in the afterlife, nor would we care enough because all that our soul would know is the joy of being united with god, aka its purpose. we would transcend the concept of time, and the care for it. pure peace and love forever with a heavenly family and with god/jesus ( im not exactly sure how the trinity works ) is what christians look forward to ( haven’t read the bible, just looked into religion a bit, and went to church as a kid, and youth group in high school. so again, won’t know 100% about this )
We wouldn’t have the dopaminergic pathways to get bored. It’s not an existence of flesh.
I’m a teenager that’s going through a dilemma of faith. My father is a pastor and my mom is just as devoted. I’ve had some of these realizations of heaven for some years now like how eternal worship doesn’t sound fun at all, or how free will just wouldn’t exist in a place like heaven. I’ve come to realize that I have to make compromises in my questioning just so I can keep my relationship with my family. I’ve recently moved to a different city a few hours away from them for school and it drives me insane how they use up the only free hour I have at night to call me and use it for bible study, when all I really want is to just have a conversation with them.
Been there done that kid. Life is unfair. It’ll get better eventually
Thats a tough spot, friend. All i can say is keep digging. Be sure of what you can be. Understand where they are coming from and find a balance best you can till you get a bit older
Good for you breaking away from the indoctrination!
You're assuming you're going to keep your twisted and inherently bad traits of being human. All atheists do is argue and try to fit an infinitely immeasurable being into a small box. This guy is narcissistic himself. Listen to his arguments, it's just strawman. I recommend listening to near death experiences. They provide a deeper view on the afterlife.
You must follow your own heart!
As an atheist since childhood, I tried fairly recently to explain this to my dad, because I didn’t want him to ever worry about “my salvation”. I said that “even if I pretend heaven, as it’s described, is real and entirely accurate, it’s not somewhere I would want to go after I die” for many of these reasons you’re touching on here. From what I recall, he had no response and the entire conversation was just him changing the subject whenever I made any logical points. At one point he even made a comment about how I wasn’t taught about this stuff properly while growing up, which felt like he proved my point that, without indoctrination, most of it sounds pretty ridiculous.
Is you atheism based on anything like science, or is it just your opinion?
@@20july1944 I would say both
@@20july1944 Is your lack of belief in the tooth fairy, leprechauns, unicorns... (assuming you don't believe in some of those) based on science or is it just your opinion? There are an infinity of things that are logically possible, but a finite number of things that actually do palpably exist. That is why rational people look for empirical evidence to believe and at some stage in their life question their early indoctrination... And the existence of rainbows does not imply that there must be leprechauns.
@@Bry_bryyy04 OK, speaking scientifically, how did living organisms arise without guidance?
Right. It always come down to us not properly understanding. Terrible cop-outs
Having these exact realizations as a very young child traumatized me incredibly badly
BEST case scenario is that for me heaven is literally my own imagination. Nothing more nothing less. My own mind where my thoughts are my power and i can create what ever the hell i want just by thinking it. I can destroy for fun, Create and see what happens, go down different paths, Relive my life and do things differently to see what happens. I mean it really can't get better than that. Your minds your own universe.
My mother very much clings to the idea of heaven because she needs to believe she's going to be reunited with my father... and all of her beloved dead relatives.
A big family reunion.
But in this life, she cries because her two beloved children are atheists and won't be in heaven with her.
She's 85. I don't press the issue.
😔
Thanks again for another great video. Brandon ❤️
During my deconstruction and ultimate deconversion, the concept of a heaven where all things are good is one where we lose our being. We would lose all memories of the very stuff that shaped us which includes family. We wouldn’t recognize the ones who are there unless we cruelly forgot the ones who are not so that we couldn’t be saddened by their absence. We would be automatons with a single programming to ONLY understand infinite worship.
But my parents are aging, as well, and I don’t push it.
@@BessieRiggs
I was always struck by the very human constructs that the heaven supposedly consisted of.
Things that are important to humans. Very current ones. Mansions, streets of gold? No tears, no pain, no sorrow... All of those are human things.
If it's not a physical body then, how would any of those things be relevant at all?
As a kid I got the endless church service kind of vibe.
Which I thought was a fate worse than death.
So even a very early age, the whole concept of heaven made zero sense.
And the injustice of eternal punishment for finite petty crimes like telling a lie or stealing when you were a child etc.. the opposite of just or merciful.
😔
Glad you enjoyed it! Its just so sad to cling to this.
Do you have evidence God doesn't exist?
YOU'RE not going to heaven, but your parents can be happy together.
If you know something relevant that I don't know -- convince me!
@@20july1944
If my mother cries in this life because her children are going to hell, why would she not cry even harder in heaven when her children are in hell?
Is she suddenly going to start being happy? Her children are in hell because she's in heaven with my father?
Will she suddenly stop feeling grief and sadness about her children who are in hell for eternity while she's in heaven?
How exactly does that work?
But she stopped being who she was in life?
Does she stop caring about all the people that she cared about in life?
Her own father being one of them.
He wasn't a Christian either.
She's going to be a happy if this family reunion where her beloved father isn't there nor her beloved children?
But she's going to be happy?
Did you even listen to the video?
Brandon answered this question in the video directly.
Or are you just trolling the comments?
As a child, I always assumed that Heaven meant that after death, we'd have anything we wanted, whatever that was. For me, Heaven would involve an infinite library of every book ever written... and every time a new book was written on earth, this book would immediately appear in this library. This meant that I never considered boredom in Heaven could possibly a problem. I also never considered that there'd be anyone in Heaven who'd be miffed that their Heaven wasn't any nicer than anyone else's. My mind didn't work that way, and to be honest it still doesn't.
By fifteen, I'd completely rejected the concept of Hell, so I assumed that evil people would either suffer annihilation or be reincarnated so they'd have another chance to get it right. Or maybe just as people would be healed of their physical ailments, their psychological disorders would automatically disappear as well, and they'd thus be good then.
As I grew older, I began speculating that this physical life was just a step in a longer journey of self-development which would continue ever onward. Or maybe if Paradise ever palled, you'd have the option of volunteering for reincarnation.
But since then after becoming acquainted with fundagelical ideas of Heaven... yeah, an eternity of doing nothing but praising God over and over 24/7 without any break does sound pretty hellish, doesn't it?
Exactly! Thanks for watching and for taking the time to share your thoughts
I'm sure that you've grown out of this sort of mindset by now, but your comment about people who are evil naturally having psychological disorders stood out to me. Is this something that had been taught as part of your religious upbringing? I have seen this idea circulate in other religious spaces, especially in groups that believe demons cause mental illness. I'd love to talk more about it!
@@FennecShardnah it's just obvious, self destruction even out of ignorance doesn't avail much of the self that you actually are
I like most of what you said, but the thought still remains of eternity. The Earth isn't going to last for all of eternity that means that books aren't going to be written for all of eternity. At some point the Earth will end the people will stop existing and the books will stop being written and then you still have all of eternity without new books. Eventually you're going to read them all eventually you're going to get bored.
@@BecomePneuma11235The thing is boredom is caused by neurochemistry. You see your brain works to maintain a balance of chemicals that cause happiness and sadness. It's why you feel depressed after a week long vacation of fun for no reason. Boredom is your brain making things that were fun for you release less and less dopamine to maintain that balance
I imagine the afterlife, if it exists, to be a place of genuinely true free will. Where you can "will" yourself to be eternally happy and entertained, or eternally miserable
Thank you for your videos. I deconverted from Christianity, twice, because of its endless problems that I couldn’t ignore. The first time was as a teenager and the second time was as an adult. I’m the first in my family, that I’m aware of, to break this chain. It’s scary to be a trailblazer but so worth it when if you’re a person who values truth and logic.
WELL SAID!!!
What have you found, that satisfies your need for truth and logic?
As a child, I could barely sit through a church service.....just imagine that for eternity.
my sister and i called the sermon the 'long chat'. oh gosh it was so boring it hurt
As a man with the double concoction nomenclatured Obsessive Compulsive Disorder and Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder, I can concur with your kneeslaping witticism 😁🤗😆
@@alisonbrowning9620 As a man with the double concoction nomenclatured Obsessive Compulsive Disorder and Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder, I can concur with your kneeslaping witticism 😁🤗😆
I completely agree. My biggest fear as a child was not Hell, it was spending an eternity doing all the things I love for all time.
How long will it take to try everything? Once done, does one do them again? How long will it take for this to become stale? How long will it take for me to hate doing what I once loved? An eternity of repeating everything. Maybe seeing my grandchildren being born will give me joy? But then I will have to see them die and meet them. And again with their grandchildren. And will humankind be around in another 200,000 years. What happens when humans go extinct? No new entrants? A finite number of friends for eternity? Once the earth has been consumed by the inevitable Red Giant, that was once our sun, what then? Spend my time watching the slow heat death of the universe? And when the last Black Hole evaporates away and there is only darkness... do I really continue with an eternity still ahead of me? Eventually, I will have met everyone who has made it into paradise an infinite number of times already. I will have done everything an infinite number of times already... And I still have an eternity ahead of me doing everything an infinite number of times again... This sounds a lot like hell.
To do all this without my brother, without friends, without loved ones who were condemned by the church because they took their own lives... Without my pets, without animals... Without alcohol, Without S*x, without porn, without my wives, Knowing that the guy who r@ped my sister is in heaven... This is hell from the get go.
And the alternative is hell?
No wonder god's Angels rebelled.
Love this, Tom! No wonder, indeed
@@MindShift-Brandonhello, if you deleted my comment, why? Did it offend you?
"No wonder god's Angels rebelled" sooo true wow
@@blueisacolor7639I haven't read your comment, but it was probably a skill issue on your part. Just post comments that don't get deleted lol
As i told you in your other comment, i dont delete comments. TH-cam might thiugh
Thank you Brandon!! As a deconstructing Christian I was scared of hell. That has been kind of dissipating but I was still really scared of dying. I have been starting to appreciate that 80 odd years of consciousness is probably enough and actually maybe I don’t want to live for ever. This video has helped tremendously, and I will focus on every single moment of this life with all it’s beauty and terror!
i am so pleased to hear that! thanks for letting me know.
_its_ beauty and terror, even
You're not alone... in fact it's staggering to think how many humans thru history have lived their lives in fear of hell. We are lucky to live in an internet age where people can talk and support each other, and hopefully humans will enter a new era where that fear disappears.
First off death concerns us all and scares most of us. It's hard to shake the feeling that an intelligent life that can end is a kind of torture. Once our eyes are open, once we are alive everything that means anything to us seems to need to last (even if it's just in our memories). So your concern/fear about death and the afterlife (Hell) are normal, "stock" even. Fear of Hell dissipates with maturity, both natural and spiritual. It's one of the reasons you never see terrified or angry elderly in church. As we get older we understand how little control we have over our ultimate fates and we come to acquiesce to that which we cannot control. With wisdom comes comfort, so to speak.
My question for you is this: If you were afraid of Hell, and that was a bad thing for you, why is life being "terrifying" a good thing?
Yea, I'm a strong atheist.. but my instincts and meditations lead me to believe death is not the end.. and if I'm wrong.. I won't care cos I'll be dead.. so it's a win-win to assume i just get another new and improved life like the hindus say. I think that's why we all deep down want to make the world better because we know we're stuck here and will probably be back. In another form. There.. your terror is destroyed
I’m a Christian (16) right now, but after watching this video (and some others from this channel) that is very subject to change. I’ve seen several videos from other atheists (mainly Gen. Mod. Skeptic) and I was able to rationalize it as them not being taught the real Christianity, and instead being raised in some hypocritical version of it. You, however, actually dug into the core foundations of the faith and logically analyzed them more thoroughly than any theology teacher, family member, or priest has. I’m still extremely torn, but I’m starting to lean away from Christianity and tbh I’m running out of questions. Regardless of where I end up, I will be stronger and more confident because of you. Thank you 🙏
What I think is disturbing is the common assumption that if Christianity and Islam aren't true- and there are ample logical reasons to come to those conclusions- then the default option is to be an atheist.
While the concept of an active, benevolent God is impossible to reconcile with our recognizable observed reality- with babies born with missing organs or sick and incapable of surviving, sex trafficking of children and every other unholy money making scheme humanity indulges in recreationally- there are many questions atheism has no answer for.
One such is the existence of consciousness, and how- if this reality is just dead material space with nothing to connect us- an unconscious reality- then how are we conscious?
There are circumstances where logic and reason break down and can't be relied upon. So any attempt at a holistic comprehension of all reality would be fundamentally beyond the parameters of our minds to conceive.
To what degree do we create our own realities?
The cognitive sciences are revealing what shaman and speculative philosophers have long contended.
"We humans don't believe what we see.
We see what we believe."
You should watch Cliffe Knechtle debating those ppl you watch.
@@iseeyou3352cliffe never won a debate, Aron ra owned him, so did Matt Dillahunty
@@iseeyou3352Aron Ra owner cliffe, so did Matt dillahunty. Cliffe never won a debate ever.
I think you’re incredibly strong and courageous to face these truths so early in your life, fortunate really… don’t be afraid Xavier, you’re growing and it’s painful sometimes but many throughout the course of human history have discovered the value of experiencing pain. You are growing in awareness, it’s a powerful process and we all experience a wide range of emotions and sensations, it’s natural to feel what you feel. If you haven’t already, perhaps try to find some people who are exploring similar themes in their lives, that can be a game changer for you. I wish you the best, take care my friend.
This hits me so very hard. I have one child who is a Christian and one who is not. It was this very issue that caused me to deconvert last year. Thank you for being the voice of reason in this crazy conversation.
The thought of spending eternity in heaven gave me almost as much anxiety as hell when I was a kid.
what do you mean by eternity because heaven and god is outside of space-time (time doesn't exist)
How? 😂 you would prefer torture and torment over peace and love for eternity? Can you please explain?
@@rimrejectsit’d be like being in the most amazing place you could ever be, bu ur stuck there for eternity. Some souls wouldn’t like that I imagine
You won’t have those issues in heaven though
@@rimrejectsI have phobia with eternity and infinity. So, heaven and hell, always creep me out. 🤷🏻♀️
One of the best arguments against heaven I’ve heard is: if you lined up all 7 billion people on earth from morally best to morally worst, where do you cut the line to send one side to heaven and one side to hell? No matter what split you decide 50:50, 70:30 etc you will always have 2 people on either side of the line who are almost morally identical and yet one is condemned forever and one is saved. The difference could be a single good deed or a single thought. Imagine you go to hell over a single intrusive thought. Imagine the fear going to heaven knowing the guy before you was condemned for a single intrusive thought. It is absolutely insane.
Good/bad deeds have nothing to do with it. According to the BIble none of us are good enough to deserve "heaven". But Jesus Christ has paid the penalty for our sin by his sacrifical death . If you acknowledge your failures and just put your trust in Him, you will certainly get to heaven
@ChrisSmith-xh9wb
"If you acknowledge your failures and just put your trust in him, you will certainly get to heaven"
So you have to DO something to go to heaven? You have to acknowledge and put your trust in him.
What happens to you if you don't?
@@przemeksledziewski1973if you lack faith then you dont get to heaven. That’s why people hate christians. The bible states that if people dont have faith on jesus or worship another god then that means they are completely blacklisted from heaven and some christians would ride and die with that statement.
Then, appearantly, you go to Hell@@przemeksledziewski1973
@@przemeksledziewski1973 well to put it bluntly, God accepts that you don’t want him and you’re eternally separated from God. That’s what Hell is by its basic definition, according to Christianity. If heaven in this case is good, and all good things come from God, then it would be easy to suggest that the “apart from god” would include no good.
Found this video right after finishing “The good place” and YOU ARE MAKING SENSE
Speaking on denying themselves. I came clean about my Asexuality, Aromanticism, Atheism, and Politics to my parents. They handled it pretty well, but I was...disturbed to learn my Dad was priding himself on the not acting on his attraction to men. He said he has forced himself to focus on being with women. He's been married twice, including my mom. I still really don't know how to think of it.
same but instead it's my mom who has denied her true self. i semi recently have learned that it's possible she might be bi but she has forced herself to be only with men, im not saying she's unhappy with making that choice, I'm simply saying that denying yourself of who you truly are can become a deep hidden hurt, if humans do have a soul I'd imagine this kind of hurt is highkey sinful to said soul.
@@poxie2637 I think it mostly disturbed me, because my mom's reaction indicated she didn't know that either. Even if she practices what she preaches, then that has to be in the back of her head.
I also know that my dad is vehemently LGBTIA+-phobic. It's just a really sad situation all around and I really can't do anything about it.
With all due respect....that is a very weird thing to tell your child lol
@@demodiums7216 I was trying to explain what Asexuality actually was, and my dad was all, "oh yeah, that's normal! You really have to work at getting into real relationships. Attraction has nothing to do with it! It'sa choice."
And I got a rather disturbing description that my dad thought sexual attraction was not how relationships are initiated because his sexual attractions were all the sinful kind.
This is absolutely amazing. I can’t believe how extreme some of my Christian friends seemed after I left the religion. They don’t even ask why I left after 39 years of life. They don’t even think about these things at all. Everyone just imagines their own personal heaven, which isn’t even biblical. They are so obsessed with their religion; it takes so much time out of their daily lives. Just the fact that there are so many different heavens and hells across all of the different religions just makes it total nonsense to me. It’s so obvious the idea of heaven is simply for the people in mourning to cope with the loss. I realized everybody (religious and non-religious) mourns in a similar way to a certain point: they talk about their happy memories of the person that passed away. I don’t need the idea of heaven. I talk about all of the fond memories of the person to keep their memory alive. That’s all I need.
Very well said. Thanks so much for sharing and for being here.
The idea of heaven isn't a coping mechanism. I mean it can be of course. But heaven is the amazing opportunity of being with Jesus Christ the One who died for you and for me. The One who serve Him and have relationship with Him. Heaven is a reward for us Christians who lived a life pleasing Him. Jesus still loves you and He hasn't abandoned you. It's not too late to build relationship with Him. He would love you to be apart of His Kingdom.
@@MalkosIzel I would have to disagree. We do care. In fact we care so much that we are persecuted for sharing the gospel of Jesus Christ. Now those that don't care with suffer the consequences for knowing the truth and not sharing or only caring about themselves. Jesus loves you. And remember a lot of ppl claim to be Christians and aren't and simply may go to church or may just believe in Jesus but not necessarily FOLLOW Him. Jesus loves you. And He wants you to be His friend. He wants you to confide in Him as your Father. Someone whom you can talk about all your problems too. He listens and the best listener at that. The times I've hit rock bottom and yet He listens and helps me and I see the help and how He blows my mind is just astounding and knowing Jesus is literally like the best person you can know how will have your back when you turn to Him
We Christians choose to accept the evidence that God exists and He raised Jesus from the dead.
You offer no contrary evidence, and you're blandly and passively self-destructive.
Shrug.
How about instead of repeating the same braindead Christian tagline bullshit, you actually refute or discuss in any way any of the concepts and points that the video creator posited? Oh wait, you won't.. you're engagijng in fingers-in-the-ear "la la la!", head in the sand techniques so that you don't have to engage critical thinking for the first time since you abandoned reason and became Christians. Because, that might mean you have to face your existential fears about life and death, and might have to wrap your head around uncomfortable concepts like the adults in the room have had to do their entire adult lives. Grow up, Christian sheeple.
This is the VERY thing that scared the crap out of me as a kid. My parents told me about how amazing heaven would be but it honestly scared me more than hell. The eternal monotony. It was the start of my journey away from these archaic religions of talking snakes and mythologies we would otherwise giggle at if we had no cultural connection with them. Once you leave Christianity, it becomes as daft, nonsensical and ancient as the Viking or Roman religions.
Burning forever wasn't scary?
@@antoniopratt1893 no it's actually wasn't. 1. It's a ridiculous idea to begin with. Burning for an eternity is such a ludicrous punishment for a TINY mortal human that is bound to screw up a few times, especially is given free will but still expected to follow the guys rules perfectly, is just completely absurd, especially if so many people have never even heard of the gospel around the world. And if they did, it would just be another religion trying to win patrons for their shrine and they'll just laugh at it. How are they supposed to know that Christianity is the one true religion if all they grew up with was Buddhism. And they deserve to burn forever? Really?. If hell is real then god is a malicious tyrant that does not deserve worship. 2. If the burning of hell won't kill you, that means you'll get used to it. If you ever served in the military you'll know the deal. Plus all the cool people will be in hell. Hell would end up being more fun, when you get used to the pain. But that last point is more just for laughs because hell doesn't exist... at least the Christian one. It's a ridiculous and evil concept designed purely to get people to conform to the church.
@@lexdeobesean You're not expected to do anything, If you live your whole life neglecting God than at the end of it all he will neglect you. The difference between me and you is that you simply feel the need to justify your sin. Live however you want, do you see God standing in front of you telling you what to do? Just don't be upset about the outcome of your choices.
@@antoniopratt1893 how many hells might you end up burning in then? Christianity is not the only option out there friend 😉
heaven still feels better for me than hell as long as I'm with my love ones
An absolutely amazing video. As a 16 year old with a very religious family i have to hear all of this all the time and its honestly comforting to find people on the internet and irl that share my sentiments, so thank you
Jesus Christ is alive and well and he loves you more than you know. So much so that he died and shed his blood for the forgiveness/pardon of all your sin/wrongdoing. If a man says he has never sinned/done wrong, he is a liar, and the truth is not in him. We are not sinners because we sin, we sin because we are sinners.
@@paulgemme6056 show me proof. And don't say your little book because that's not proof
@@_xxClaudiaxx_ All creation screams: look at me, the proof is in the pudding. You think everything came about by some big bang. Absurd!
@paulgemme6056 the notion that a god was always there and made the universe out of nothing is not more rational than a big bang creating the universe out of nothing. Or a universe always being there, now is it
@@_xxClaudiaxx_ Everything has a design so everything needs a designer. Only Christ Jesus/God could design and create something as magnificent as the universe, the human body, a hummingbird. It takes a supernatural being. All Glory, honor and praise belongs to the Lord God Almighty for he has done great things.
Appreciate this, (agnostic athiest here) And I have only heard the point of boredom and monotony of eternity. I heard it your interview with Trent. And you mentioned this is the weakest. When you understand neuro science of boredom this becomes very much weaker too. This has been a major interest of mine, the neuro science of how we get bored, feel unsafe feel pleasure and feel content etc. Even though I'm not on the camp of theism Let me tell you that boredom is optional, but most human beings don't feel like it is until they have a major experience that moves their primary brain function from dopamine and cortisol base, to see base. Dopamine-cortisol is the pleasure, fear, anger, boredom pathway. Serotonin is the contentment pathway. Under dopamine is about motivation, improvement, achievement, goals, good food good money. It's the doing pathway of our brain, it also what allows our brain to track time, to get bored over time. To have a sense of time. And we need it to survive. It's also designed/evolved to make us feel bored when you use it too much. To want something new. To not be content with what we have. To chase the next big thing. In itself it is unsustainable. It pleasure reduces on the same resistive thing. If it's didn't it brain circuits would fry and we would stop trying to improve our lives. So liked if you eat your favourite food all the time, you'll get bored of it. But if you have breaks three pleasure experience will build up again. True of everything pleasure. Sex, games, food, drugs like heroin etc etc.
Not so with serotonin. Serotonin pathway if it primarily engaged over dopamine, you will not be bored no matter what. It does track time. It creates a feeling of contentment and safety. It never seeks improvement or growth in itself. It also makes one feel closer to spiritual realm or god etc. It's there pathway that is engaged under hallucinogenics, and near death experiences. People who go deep into these, describe the experience as being timeless. There is no idea of time or boredom. Things can feel like hundreds of years in these experiences or time can lose all it's meaning and so does boredom.
These two pathways need to work in balance or we would die of starvation. If we just lived in a timeless state of contentment, our bodies would die. But if we just pleasure chase we become very unhappy. Think of unhappy rich people, there are lots of them. Then contest it with the happy or person. There are many examples of this as well. Of course there are also many happy rich people and a huge amount of unhappy poor people.
You can experience a shift in this yourselfif you learn effe tive meditation. I can be really bored, sit down meditate, which litterally is a cessation of chasing what's pleasurable. At first I'll become more bored and irritated. But then as I go deeper into it, after about 10 minutes, I become less bored, by doing the most boring thing ever. I also start to lose the bed to track time. it feels good but it is not pleasure. It's contentment, acceptance, safety. There's nothing to do. I actually feel more excited about doing things that may have bored me previously, 20 mins earlier.
I would hypothesise that if there is a heaven and we had the same physical neurological and psychological base that we do as humans, we would sit more in this timeless serotonin state. That never gets bored, makes boring things more interesting, and that teaches time not at all, or with far less importance.
I've only really scratched the surface here. Happy to talk with you more about this. 😊
Excellent analysis its strange that no one has responded to your comment
This is super interesting and nice to see at least one person provide some form of tangible example of how boredom could logically be a non-factor regarding eternity.
I am obviously biased in saying as much, but I do think alot of these psychological 'problems' with hiw heaven works is truly born out of an inevitable lack of understanding anything outside of our current human/mortal experience in-life
Did you ever watch The Good Place? This is what I like about how it ended: the main protagonist gave people the option to leave the Good Place after they were done having fun, and learning, and exploring, and improving themselves, because everyone had turned into these stupid happiness zombies, unable to do more with their afterlives. Having the option to leave is what inevitably gave the experience meaning, because humans are meaning-makers by nature.
The good place .. is not heaven, in fact it's a depiction of hell, 'eternal stasis' is not the Christian heaven, that's a hinduist/Buddhist idea of heaven and not of Christianity. Christian heaven is supposed to be ever growing, people work to make new things, it's not eternal stasis.
@@iprobablyhaveapoint, other way around. The Bible even says that all the residents of Heaven circle God and sing "his" praises for eternity, while the Buddhist and Hindu ideas of Heaven and Hell are not only very varied, but also, they do eventually end. If you're a god and you burn off all your good karma, you at once reincarnate into the Narakas (Hells) for a sense of contrast, and other way around if you burn off all your bad karma in the Narakas: you get reborn in a better place, again for contrast's sake.
@@ActiveAdvocate1I don’t believe what you believe in completely, but this makes more sense than anyone can justify heaven to be
Even the sons of god seem to agree in Genesis 6. Kinda weird how angels would abandon heaven to make offspring on earth 🤔
Speaking of walking into oblivion, there was a show I used to watch on Netflix called The Good Place. It was basically about the afterlife. The very last episode actually resonated with me. They had finally made it to the good place and when they got there, everyone had turned to mush brains because they kept doing the same things for like thousands if not millions of years. By the way, there was really no god in this heaven. It was just a bunch of good people (no evil people) who had the ability to do whatever they want....go to other planets, relive their favorite moments when they were alive....etc. And just like you said, they got bored and their brains turned to mush.
So they came up with a new concept to help alleviate their extreme boredom. They created a doorway that they could walk through whenever they no longer wish to exist. They literally walked into oblivion. One of the characters said something really profound. Once he made his mind up it was time to no longer exist, he spent one last night with his partner who was also in the good place with him. He said (paraphrasing) "A wave comes to the shore but the wave always returns to the ocean". When people walk through this doorway, their physical form just evaporates and all of their atoms and molecules are scattered back into the universe.
Choosing non-existence was something even more intriguing to me than the concept of heaven or hell. I think as an atheist, choosing non-existence would be preferable than spending eternity in heaven as a mush brain.
Watched it too. And like you, I resonated with the ending. As a non christian though, one gets the sense about how the system is so warped, there's mistakes in souls being allocated wrong destinations. One big fraud.
“One of the great joys of heaven will be seeing sinners suffer in Hell “ St Augustine
@@larryg6865just wow!!!! How this makes sense to them,...idk🤷🏽♀️
@@larryg6865 thank god I’m atheist
@@larryg6865I can’t find an actual source for that quote. Do you have one?
As a child I had these same thoughts heaven and hell seemed horrible. By the time I was nine I realized men wrote unbelievable stories the others simply believed were literal without kicking the can down the road to any imagined outcome.
The word and the written word, I think we're just mind-shattering technologies that certainly seemed more magical in context than any other technology since. The "magic" of the written word was well used by those who knew how to wield it. This is reflected in scripture:
In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and the word was God.
THANK YOU! Growing up a Christian, I constantly thought this, but no one around me seemed to understand, and it made me feel crazy. If heaven is real, it sounds like a nightmare.
2 things 1) One of the things that began my deconstruction of faith and the Bible is when I had a Bible study with my then 12 year old daughter. She asked, "What if Gods idea of eternal heaven and happiness isn't exactly mine?" I immediately thought of my dad who for example bought us a living room set without talking to us that we did not like at all. She then asked if it would be either God changing our mindset to enjoy it, but doesn't that do away with free will, or will it be like the matrix where everyone will see what they want, but how would that work?
#2 Do Christians even believe in a heaven? They say that they do but in reality do they? How is the only way we can get there? Death, but they call call on the prayer warriors. A person who must live in pain or paralyzed is told to be thankful that they are still be alive. So that's better than heaven? Again, do they in reality even believe in a heaven?
Yes the inconsistency of clinging to this life if one reallly believed in heaven is a major issue
I have a firm believe that deep down, in the subconscious, everyone knows that heaven is bullshit, that's why everyone avoids it like it's the worst thing that can happen.
People are far more likely to be irrational than non-genuine. Even criminals only lie to get money, not for fun. But you'll never find someone completely rational in every way.
The end of your second point is why I believe in medically-assisted suicide. If I'm dying of cancer and I would rather just enjoy my remaining healthy days with my family before going to a doctor to end my life instead of playing the waiting game in a great amount of pain, I should have that choice. I think anyone should have that choice, and I believe that if God really existed, he would make an exception since, ultimately, it's a partly selfless act so your family can save money in the end and won't have to see their loved one in pain.
You only want Heaven if you want God, that’s CS Lewis’s whole thing.
I'm very old, and totally content to know that death is the end. As it was in the beginning, before you were born. Nothingness.
Thank you, Brandon.
Love that. Thank you
Until you awake again and feel a sense of deja vu
@@Imhimdogg You hope. 😊
I was a lead singer in a very popular LOCAL band. So I got a lot of praise and signed autographs even though I thought it was silly and I'm pretty modest. I couldn't imagine being worshipped for an hour let alone eternity!! Why would anyone need or want that?
I've asked the question before of what do you do in heaven? Never get an answer. Your analysis was very thought provoking and all people should hear it. Thank you.
It's simple. We don't know.
I kinda hope the "afterlife" is more like a loading screen. Where you can review your stats of the last life you lived and you can either choose to create a new character or log off.
I hope that you become a deity and have meaningful interactions with other deities and humans....but also like have the ability to reincarnate or even stop existing.
This is the most exciting idea for a post death experience that I've ever heard
Sounds too much like actual choice, but this would be great
After you die a bunch of credits play with a "where are they now" end card for everyone on earth.
Fkn sick concept. Would be sick if you could see other reincarnations of your spirit too
This video is so good. I’ve saved it to send it to my mom when I carefully determine that the time seems right. My mom spends hours and hours praying every day, goes to church twice a week, and deprioritizes spending time with her family and living her life, fixing her actually crazy sleep schedule because during virtually the entire night she “has to pray” without her family “bothering” her, causing her to be asleep during most of the day when the rest of the family is awake and could be spending time with her and going out and doing things. It’s also the main thing keeping her from pursuing her passion in art (she loves it, is extremely talented but never does it because “she doesn’t have time” even though she is retired). And she’s doing this all because of her fear of hell (which she has outwardly admitted to me at times), her fear that I will go to hell (she knows I’m an atheist), her fear that her family is in danger because everyone else “isn’t praying enough,” her fear of an apocalypse that could come at any moment, the promise of an afterlife… It is quite literally robbing her of her life! I’ve never heard anyone describe this as the “inverse of Pascal’s Wager” but you are absolutely right. Thank you so much for talking about this.
My pleasure! Thanks so much for the kind words and for sharing your situation. Its a tough one that i share in.
I made a reverse pascal wager video years ago. Of course that didn't change my religious views or anything. I believe there's plenty of things to enjoy in this life and the next.
'wasting your One Garaunteed life!' That one has really been bothering me. It's so weird that they don't see that *they* are the ones taking a gamble, not me. It's so frustrating.
@@liabowden8526 Exactly! Properly understood pascal's wager makes less sense and is FAR dumber than selling literally everything you own and buying lottery tickets with every cent.
1) in pascals' you can NEVER get back anything you lost (ie you can earn more $$ but once spent time is gone and destroyed relationships are infinitely harder to repair)
2) there is infinitely more reason to believe (or more important KNOW) the 'payout' from the lottery exists over any and every proposed concept of 'heaven'
3) Also what is 'heaven' REALLY offering, an incredibly vague, totally incomprehensible, not even poorly defined 'infinite niceness' (which in practice amounts to less than a cool breeze on a hot day), or an eternity of 'meh'. At the cost of REAL tangible enjoyment now and often the chance to make this ONE life we know we get BETTER for EVERYONE. Which not only trades MASSIVE benefits for essentially NO REWARD it is also ridiculously, infinitely selfish.
No amount of praying will save you from facing the music. She will be held to account for the things she has done. Follow the commandments. Make the world a better place. Do not fritter away the time you have here. Strengthen your relationship with your family and friends. If you have hurt people, apologize and make it right.
Fundamental Truth: Any being that demands worship is unworthy of worship, by virtue of demanding it.
Wow, I've been researching and considering these topics extensively as my partner is Christian and I want to give his ideologies as fair of a chance as I can without being swayed by too much bias, and you've put all my thoughts into words in an incredibly eloquent and captivating way. These very same problems are among the many that make me wonder how on earth many Christians can hold onto their beliefs with such dedication.
Having gone to Catholic school for K-8 with attending mass every week, the conception I remember having of heaven was essentially like a solipsistic void that you could shape to your will... which of course 7-9 year old me just used to play all the games that my parents didn't buy for me, haha. When I see what Christians think of heaven, I can't help but see all the ideas brought about by human experience. People having physical bodies, distinct physical places, physical objects and things that are valued as they are on Earth, worship done through song and aural praise, class hierarchies of the strong above the weak with the strong being the "goodest" and the weak being the "ungoodest", physical warehouses of natural phenomena that God sends to Earth. These ideas are just so utterly human.
I don't know about you, but the absolute worst part of Mass was the singing. Being forced to do that for all eternity sounds pretty hellish to me.
You are correct, you have been introduced to false doctrines of Heaven and not Biblical truth.
@@jp22344 Delightful. The "No True Christians Existed Prior to 1517" crowd has entered the discussion.
@@jp22344 You're missing the point so hard that I almost feel sorry for you. There are people throughout this comments section claiming everyone else's concept of heaven is false. The issue is, we've all heard countless versions, and not one of them makes sense. If you typed out your "true" version here, I 100% guarantee you it would be just as problematic as all the other versions.
@@jp22344It's so strange that this omnipotent and infinite god can't help his beloved children keep his one true word straight. He had it written originally in some obscure script used by desert people that almost nobody else knew and which would be nearly lost and forgotten a couple thousand years later, allowed it to be translated poorly to Roman, Greek, and English, allowed it to be distributed badly, misrepresented.
You'd really think he could atleast help us in this one way. By making his word, the thing saving us from eternal flaying and burning and torture, easy to understand. If not that, then atleast clearly understandable
As a child, this is my first real fear that I can remember. My family tried to comfort me and explain all the same things you did, but it never was enough. That was the crack. From there, I started looking for other flaws and had serious doubts about the whole thing soon after.
just found your video, and may I say thank you so much. I going to tell my parents tonight that I'm leaving the faith and this is going to help me so much explain my reasons so much
You are so clear, expressive, and articulate for those terrified of deconstructing with all the cracking walls collapsing. Thank you.
Appreciate that I very much!
Sidebar: I despise comfort. My idea of enjoyment is testing my limits. Hiking in the cold rain. Falling down a hill but reaching the top. If suffering with achievement doesn’t exist in either Heaven OR Hell, where does that leave me?
Hell, because you always can try to challenge Satan himself
@@ambassadorofbadtaste better to rule in Hell than serve in Heaven
Cant you just do that in heaven as well? Just turn yourself into your former human form and test your limits hiking mountains, riding the seas etc.
I thought the idea of heaven means you can do anything you want. You can just choose to do more hard stuff by limiting yourself.
@@XEROXAYUKI like the Holodeck with the safety protocols turned off. I love this idea of Heaven. But is it a place where suffering doesn’t exist? Or CAN’T exist? CAN you turn the safety protocols off in Heaven? Fascinating questions.
Same here, I get uncomfortable when I'm too comfortable. Sooner or later, I have to try something new.
As an atheist who was formerly a Christian, you've discussed here a lot of things I've thought about regarding the Christian heaven, but you've also made some good points I hadn't considered. It pains me a little to think of my Christian family members who believe in this version of heaven, and who can't see just how messed up it would actually be if it were real.
I get that! Thanks for being here.
It pains me to see how focused we are over another realm when we aren't even good on earth look harsh truth is if you're having these thoughts then you won't have to worry about heaven if you know what I mean please take a deep breath and focus down on love and family let the Bible be just that once you get your life in order then try looking at it again.
Atheists have died and come back to life and became Christians when they returned. they said Hell was terrible
@ton042005 Exactly. If we have faith we don't need every single question answered. Evidence that God exists in this world based on what we see with your eyes is faith enough. Jesus didn't die for us just so we would die ourselves. He saves us from eternal torment.
@@epiclight858 Faith is just the start. Salvation is a process
I'm so glad I found this channel. This is awesome! I love your tone, delivery, insight, research and...I just really love this channel. You have a new fan - an atheist from South Africa. Thank you for putting this out there. This issue is the most important issue of our time.
Hey thanks so much for the kindness!
🔥 Holy smokes youre spitting bro! 🔥 You basically cleared all these blurry doubts I've always had about religion. Subscribed!
The afterlife concept has been a hot button topic for me for a long time. When I was younger and din church the concept of hell would keep me up at night. The paralyzing fear of death it gave me made it worse. Every little burn was 1000's of times more terrifying, imagining it as an eternal feeling almost unconsciously. Heaven never felt like paradise as much as it felt like a deserted island surrounded by fire. I can't stand the idea of dying then becoming a slave. My father passed away when I was wrong and I kept close to the church because I wanted to see him in heaven. 10 years. For ten damn years, I lived in a futile hope that took away my ability to grieve. I, to this day, still blame the church. When I finally came to the crushing realization that I'll never see my father again, despite my best efforts, I fell into the worst depression of my life and almost my last. Because I was lied to. Because my pastors were too cowardly to tell me the truth. I can sleep peacefully now having accepted that my father would rather see me work hard than to cry. That I'll get to rest at the end of my life. That it's me who is caring for myself and making the effort to better everything around me. I get to hurt, feel love, feel regret, learn lessons, practice, make friends, and all of this is all I ever want. To live a life that I'll be proud of. Heaven is a spit to the face of everything I value and hold dear.
The time you spent with loved ones will always be there. All you have now is the present moment. Life sucks sometimes but it's good for us.
Heaven has all good in this world and more, most importantly good friends, but we have to repent (that's it, we have to let sin go), God is good we just have to trust him. When it comes to truth regarding the video.
God is the Lord of glory, the glory we clearly see in this reality is a small portion of the glory in heaven. Gold is a element with small glory but it is a beautiful element as there will be other glorious designs. We will have the same freedom apart from sin in this world like designing technology that we can possibly even fathom like people couldn't fathom a cellphone a few hundred years ago. With God all things are possible and he will give every good gift with the possibility of infinite good. God made creation in wisdom and I believe the reason we started in a world we can rebel against God's good design is because creation has to know that a choice outside of God's will is corruption and evil, because there is only one that is good and that is God. I chose good and if God is good and made creation then creation is good, we are not as wise as God and would be a fool to trust our own reasoning over God's. Jesus is the way truth and life, choose good and avoid corruption so we can be with Christ. God bless you all.
@@specilegg So in simplification, Surrender your autonomy to an evil god so he doesn't send you to hell.
@@deebz2626 Don't desire to challenge the holy and good world God created. If you do you it cause pain to God because he is holy and incorruptible, and disrupt the order for creation. Apart from paradise and all that is good is hell. We have the free will to choose obedience to a good holy God or disobedience. God loves us so much he sent his only son to tell us the truth and repent, we killed him and God used that action to pay for our sins. We just have to follow Jesus to inherit eternal life with him. I don't know who would deny such a gift of grace.
@@specilegg You bark like a wonderfully indoctrinated little lapdog. You prop up this dictator because you cannot fathom the idea that there is nothing after you die. You can't handle the idea that bad deeds go unpunished, or that bad people don't get what they deserve. Guess what, that's what happens, daily. Instead of actually making effort to better the world you already gave up on, you prattle on about a land of make believe for everyone else you get to drown in the pool of apathy you call religion. This is the only life you get and you're perfectly content in giving it up in hopes you don't have to make any effort to be a good person now. Because who cares about each other or the planet when you're going to paradise when you eventually kick the bucket. I couldn't imagine being subservient to an authoritarian man child.
Man, I love how you're taking all the questions that echoed through my mind for decades, that I strived to ignore, and actually asking them. I remember thinking almost ALL of this throughout my time as a believer. I was more excited about avoiding Hell than I was going to Heaven, which I later figured HAS to be different than pastors described it.
But the thing that really sold me that Heaven would be a horrible place was the day that my dad and I were discussing the death of Betty White. I was already a non-believer at the time but I can't recall if I had told him yet (I think I had not). I told him a story about how White's husband had died years ago and she was quoted as saying she looks forward to going to Heaven so that she can be reunited with him. My father said "well, that's sweet but in Heaven all earthly ties will be dissolved. She won't be married to him anymore."
I had heard him say stuff like that before but hearing it as a middle-aged man it seemed to really sink in. My wife miscarried early in our marriage (twice actually, but the first time was within the first month so we were barely even acknowledging it was real while the second time was four months in, she was showing, and we were buying baby stuff). Going through that second miscarriage was a traumatic event that I managed to get through only because I consoled myself that one day I would be reunited with that child. Not to mention that at around the same time, my grandmother passed away, so I enjoyed the image of my unborn child and their great-grandmother meeting for the first time in Heaven and being able to know each other. For that matter, I had a cousin who experienced about the worst possible thing a new parent can experience; hours after the birth of his son, he and his wife were told that their new baby had a serious heart defect that had somehow been missed on all prenatal tests. At six weeks old, this precious little one passed away. Even my father quoted King David, saying "he cannot come back to me, but I can go to him", and I took some solace that one day my cousin would meet his son again and they would be reunited.
And here was my dad telling me that none of this is even going to happen. When I get to Heaven, my unborn child, and everyone else I know, will be part of the faceless throng of worshippers. My cousin will never see his son again to a point of acknowledging him as his long-lost son. And my father was LOOKING FORWARD TO THIS?? He was calling this PARADISE? His life goal was to attain THAT? That didn't sound like Paradise to me, that sounded like a nightmare!
Sounds like _Invasion of the Body Snatchers._
I would agree with you that would be sad if that's how it is.
Personally I'm confident we will have families in heaven because, as you say, we would be a faceless and sexless hive of drones otherwise.
A good King or Father would want EVERY person in heaven to have a happy family -- why not?
Thanks for sharing! Glad to help normalize all those thoughts. Just so sad how people hold to it.
@@MindShift-Brandon It's not sad they hold to it if it proves to be true.
You don't know, and are afraid to answer my question about your upbringing.
@@20july1944 Imagine that, you have a completely unbiblical and made-up view of what heaven will be like because the description in the bible sounds too mundane and insanely boring to you.
Thanks for talking about this. I was raised Christian from the age of four and i never told people what my biggest fear was. It was Heaven and living forever, it always sounded terrible and I used to get panic attacks thinking about it.
What? 🤣🤣 well brother, our flesh will die but our souls will remain. I think you want to be in heaven with our loving and forgiving god. And we won’t mention the other option, where you do NOT want to go.
I think your biggest fear is living forever not in heaven. So you dismissed the idea of Heaven all together. But we are divine beings, much more than flesh and 4 dimensions. That voice you hear in your head is proof of the universe being more than energy and matter.
You must have been taught evolution of molecules to man as a fact. It’s not brother.
The first reason this man gives is boredom… in heaven… that is pure bs and irony. What did he say that you liked?
GREAT THOUGHTS. One time during prayer meeting I went off praying about how I hope God gives me a great second body that is capable of horse riding and fighting in battle... the pastors wife came up to me later and chuckled saying something which I thought belittled the plan of heaven and thought how much pastors and their families are sometimes so ignorant to the texts that pay their bills.
(spoiler alert) I loved the ending of "the good place" because you could leave Heaven when YOU chose. Just pass thru the door and, you no longer exist, no pain, no punishment, just the equivalent of thoughtless sleep.
Like Nirvana
Im good with that i be in that
THIS. Christian here, questioning the morals of religion. This is the most perfect concept of the afterlife imo. I swear if it's not like this I will cry--
Jokes aside, this is leagues better than the "heaven" we were told about in Religion class. I'm pretty sure the afterlife is a simulation you can control, where you can sleep for eternity if you'd want, you can experience the old nostalgic days of your childhood once again, you can finally find out small things you were always wondering about (why do we cook bacon and bake cookies), yadda yadda. All in your own personal bubble, with no one interfering. You can just cease to exist if you choose to, or if you don't need to exist anymore. Now THAT'S a heaven I'd prefer. Any thoughts though? I feel like something's missing, or there are a few flaws. Correct me on some things I may have missed.
I'd prefer to just have my memory wiped and be able to enjoy everything all again
@@Voxelowo sounds like reincarnation
What a great video. It's so wonderful to hear this expressed so well. I've been complaining about this for decades to any Christian who would listen. "If I end up in heaven because I believed, and my child ends up in eternal torment because they didn't, does this horrify me while I'm in heaven? If it does, in what sense is that heaven? And if it doesn't, in what sense is that me?"
Thanks so much!
Wow... you hit the nail on the head with that one. 👏
Your best video so far, especially the ending! Was the best speech to make the most of our precious life here and now. Thank you 🔥
Oh thanks man. Thats very kind!
Man , great explanation . You are one of few that touches the concept of heaven and its downsides . I always thought about this and you presented it so well . Thanks man
Thank you very much!
I was in tears because I'm passionate about this area also. Thinking how those who care for me and love me would be ok with me going to hell because I'm not a believer. I, of course, don't believe this. There's no way that I could. It's a horrible thing. Thank you for putting words to this that I can relate to. I appreciate it.
Thanks for this and for watching!
I'm just going to simplify it the secret to life is finding your Adam or your Eve that's when your real journey starts if you want to be real look at the start of the Bible you can't move forward without your soulmate I wish I was lying to you but trust me that's the key to this life find your damn soulmate I'm not lying to you
@Ton042005 did you not see the video? I swear you Christians look for videos that try to debunk Christianity in order to find people to convert. BTW it is highly likely Adam and Eve didn't even exist. Now, you're in title to your own beliefs, but please don't force said beliefs onto people. Especially on a non Christian video
@@zoeyanslow664 well I never spoke my religion and Adam and Eve was just an example sorry I didn't say spouse I also was just saying instead of worrying about heaven as if you are going to die today why not focus on love that has nothing to do with christians it's me saying live a full life with love and it will all make since but I appreciate your comment.
@@zoeyanslow664 and hahahaha convert lol I'm a gammer lol I was just trying to help but I understand but next time it would be nice if you asked me instead of assuming.
The Good Place did a great job of showing exactly the problems with heaven that you describe here; specifically, that people will eventually get bored and want to leave, but they can't. Highly recommend that show if you haven't seen it.
Bruh, heaven is another plane of existence, you won't feel boredom or any bad feelings
@@GhostzinZ just because it’s another plane doesn’t mean you don’t have your consciousness and emotions..I thought the whole point of the afterlife was to have some sense of self after death like wants,memories etc. imagine doing the same thing for 1 billion years idc what mental gymnastics you wanna use that would drive anyone insane dude
I'm so glad you covered this. I could never reconcile with being s spirit in bliss but able to see the suffering of living beings and feeling no empathy. How could I watch my loved ones suffer in earth as i bask in eternal glory and sing praises all the live long day.
One of the things I never understood is the "No Sin" in heaven. Can you imagine life with the 7 deadly sins not mentioning the lesser sins? There could be no feasts because that would be gluttony. You can be proud of your accomplishments because that would be pride. You can't sit around and relax because that would be sloth. Since you don't need food or drink, eating and drinking would be greed. You would be able to articulate this thought better than I, which I would love to hear.
I think you articulated it pretty darn well,!
This reminds me of something my roommate in college, who grew up athiest, said about heaven one day
"I've asked Christian friends and family members what they'd do in heaven and a lot of them say stuff like, 'eat a bunch,' 'have sex all the time,' or other similar things, and it baffles me because you can do that stuff now. What's the point of holding back now if you intend to do that stuff either way?"
plus wouldnt all that stuff get boring after the 1,000,000th time?
@@B1-997I see this alot. You don't experience boredom in Heaven, you have to be alive for that because time is limited. Emotions don't have the flavor they do here. Bored, cold, tired. It's more of a scale between dread and euphoria.
This is of Course Not what Christians Actually believe about heaven and Atheists need to stop Lying. Christians do Not Think You "Eat a Bunch" In Heaven or "Have Sex Al the Time" In Heaven. What do You Really Hope by Lying?
By the way I am well Aware hat thee are 48 Thousand Denominations of Christianity that Don't All Agree with wat My Denomination teaches and that I do not speak for All Christians. What You don't Understands is, You can't Show Any Christians Saying this.
@@xandror i feel like heaven would also effect your mind if your emotions are completley changed
For the record, there is no sex at all in
Heaven, Jesus said there isn't marriage
in Heaven but we will be like angels
Brandon, you really are the smartest guy in the room…another great one. I’ll never forget trying to wrap my imagination around why a never ending church service would even sound like a place you wanted to spend more than a day in…until they fed you the concept of hell 😂
Too kind, my friend. But thank you very much. and yes hell will immediately make heaven sound palatable.
SouthernRedneck: if you don't even WANT to go to heaven, I don't think there's any chance God will take you there.
Always thought the same too…trapped in church worship eternally sounds a great deal like hell to me 😂😂😂
@@20july1944maybe you should rewatch this whole video, there's plenty reasons why no one should want to go to heaven. The only real difference between heaven and hell, is one smells worse.
@@XRamenmaX No, you're wrong and I think you should spare us the headache of having you in heaven.
Critiquing heaven is pointless when the question of God's existence is the key question and I'd love to chat about that with you based only on science and history.
I'm an Atheist, I don't believe in heaven/hell, however I really hope that death doesn't feel like before birth. I want to have life again however who knows.
When I was still a Christian, soon before deconversion, I used to think about it a lot. I thought about death, heaven and hell a lot, partially because of my depression and suicidal thoughts. Afterlife made little sense to me, but I still believed as best I could. And I prayed to God, asking and wondering if he could just let me stop existing instead of making me live forever with no way out. It was such a relief to finally allow myself to believe that there is likely nothing after death.
I often thought about the horrors of heaven as a believer... including the issues you raised. Others shamed me when i brought it up with them. When I believed in the fairytale i use to ask other believers "will there be no death in heaven?" .then id say "Im so glad we will all be vegetarian and no animals will die for meat." They were so shocked, not happy and had no response😅
Lol. Yup!
There will be no human death God will provide the food not like we need to eat in heaven. Beside there is a difference between human death an animal death. It always baffles me when people try to put worldly attributes on God even though he is not of the world. Also if the no death rule also applies to animals we are taking about the all mighty one he can just create food for us to eat.
@@TomGraham-mk2wl Animals don't have a human soul so no it is not the same. We can kill animals for food but killing a human is different as we were made in God's image. We were created to rule over animals and animals were created to serve us.
@@zSteve1231
It amazes me that people think that animals don’t have emotions and don’t have a desire to live. Also it said no death. There is no prove that it only refer to humans.
@@Bunni504 never said that animals don't have emotions and desire to live. The Bible never says that there will be animals in heaven either.
One of THE most POWERFUL videos I've ever seen! This was the original set of issues I ran into as a teen that began my process of deconverting. Man this is good stuff!
Appreciate that very much. Thanks so much for being here.
We won't have to put up with you in heaven, either -- making it a little more heavenly.
@@20july1944 wow dude, what a nice and respectful thing to say.
@@kingcactus5251 I didn't intend to be nice or respectful.
I'm here to discuss relevant science or history with someone here who knows some of either.
This arguments are elementary at best. He's trying to fit infinity into a box. I've listened to every single point and he's just pissed because Heaven sounds too good to be true. What if we're here to learn and choose to be here? What if we do indeed keep learning and growing in the Afterlife?
Its 2am and I've been binging your videos for hours now. I have heard of ideas that never crossed my mind and my perception of religion has shifted completely.
I like what Alan Watts mentioned in a talk about the idea of if you were to have the power to control your dreams and sleep forever you would do all of the good things and then interweave some bad for contrast and testing yourself and eventually after time and time again you would be exactly where you are right now, feeling like you do now.
OMG this video is like coming home in terms of my interpretation of God and the Bible. Lucifer literally got kicked out of heaven for questioning whether there could be 2 kings and 2 kingdoms. God even throws all the gold and jewels that he gave him in his face. It's such a narcissistic idea of a supposedly perfect being who should be above all this. We need more videos like this
That whole concept/conversation between God and Lucifer never made any sense to me in the first place. IIRC, God says something like, "Lucifer, I created you perfect until iniquity was found in you." It can't be both: if Lucifer was created perfect, then no evil could be found in him ever; if Lucifer wasn't created perfect, then God is fallible.
Wdym 2 kings and 2 kingdoms? Where does it say that?
It's not a matter of 2 kings and 2 kingdoms as much as it is: God created everything (including Lucifer), Lucifer created nothing, so who is superior? You do not understand who God is if you think that you can be His equal.
@@squizmeister2617 provide evidence for your god, oh wait, you can’t
@@squizmeister2617 your god didn’t create anything, you haven’t shown nor demonstrated in any shape or form that he exists.
20:00 Years ago, when I had an Atheist YT channel, I had gotten a message from a Christian:
"I can't wait until we're both dead. You'll be burning in hell for all of eternity, and I'll be up in heaven, looking down and laughing my ass off."
This speaks volumes about the character of this "good" Christian. Because forget enemies, I would not be able to relax or enjoy myself while complete strangers are suffering. I wouldn't be laughing. It would be hell to me.
He went on to say that he and his hundreds of YT followers would be praying for me, that I would get in a horrific accident where I am seriously mangled, and that I will survive and linger for a long time in great pain.
Some Christians are horrific monsters who are lacking in sympathy, empathy, Humanity, and self-awareness.
The narcissism of their god is only matched by their own. It’s all about them. Always was, always will be.
I honestly think some of these psychos need their God (I am not talking about your ordinary christian). Without the idea of eternal torture they would be actual monsters with no limits. It is sad, extremely sad.
Knowing several good christians, as an atheist myself, I can vouch and say they’re not all paychopathic narcissists like that
It's truly astonishing how much blind hatred and violent rage inhabits the demented minds of religious fanatics.
I have gotten all to many similar comments and emails. Its dosgusting
After my mom died, my boss at the time convinced me to go to his church to talk to his pastor. They were Calvinists and the pastor went on and on, almost happily, about how in heaven, people will be able to look down into hell and know that "god was right to send them there and how everyone in hell deserves it."
The pastor called me into his office and talked to me for about 10 minutes. He asked if my mom ever swore, even once. He then proceeded to tell me why the bible proves that my mom, who had only been gone about a month, was burning in hell and how I needed to come to terms with that. I was given a pamphlet and told that I was welcome to join his church.
I can't repeat what I said to him. These people are absolutely insane. There's no polite way to say that. To have so much joy from the idea of people being tortured forever so they can have a present when they die...it's heavy mental illness and there is zero reason to have an ounce of respect for them.
Been binge watching your content for two weeks now, and mannnnn you’ve blown my mind. I’m an atheist, I’ve always been on the arguments side and the philosophical reasoning for why these things do not exist. Never have I thought about these things from this perspective. Mannnnn “you dn too burst my dada”(that’s Nigerian Pidgin English for “you’ve blown my mind over” 😂
Ha! Thanks so much for watching. Glad to introduce something new.
This is why my idea of "heaven", as in the best case scenario for an afterlife, wouldn't be a biblical heaven of God's creation but an eternal lucid dream of my own design where I can just do whatever the hell I want, sins included
Sounds good.
Thank you so much for addressing this! The fear of heaven was one of my biggest factors that led to my deconstruction. When ever I brought it up with my fellow Christians at the time, they always seemed shocked as if they hadn't thought that heaven could ever have a down side.
Thank you Brandon, for helping me know I'm not alone in finding how disturbing the concept of heaven really is.
Got you!
The problem is that children are fed a sugar-coated description of heaven - one that makes it sound like a never-ending Disneyland. Then they read the Bible and learn that heaven is more accurately described as a state of endless enthrallment to God. So, per those descriptions, heaven will be more like school. Or worse than school: the military.
@@underoakss I prefer to think that God will be able to tailor Heaven to each individual's sensibilities, so that even if we ARE enslaved, we'll never be the wiser and won't care. I also think our memories will be erased an infinite number of times so that eternity will not become boring for us - but we'll still somehow be able to remember all our friends and loved ones there with us.
So many good points, your mind set is on such a relateable frequency about this substantial subject
I stumbled across your video and I’m so happy about it. You’re my new fave.
Thats so very kind. Thanks for being here!
It's funny and I'm embarrassed to say this but I never really thought about the conceptual contradictions an eternal existence in heaven raises until watching this. You're absolutely right that it doesn't hold water for very simple extrapolations.
Thank you. Glad it was useful!
This is the first video I've seen of yours, and I'm so glad to have found your channel! Thinking through the concept of heaven is actually what started my deconstruction, and I've never heard anyone else talk about it, but I agree that it is one of the biggest flaws in the whole religion! My first real "wait, why?" moment was the streets of gold and crowns and mansions thing. It just jumped out at me as utterly ridiculous one day, and then I couldn't stop thinking about the biblical descriptions of heaven. The final straw for me was, as you said: how am I me, or any version of me that is good, if I can have no sorrow for the people who I loved on earth, or even strangers honestly, that are now burning in hell? It became clear to me then that at least that part of the bible was not "divinely inspired," and you know once you don't trust that the bible is infallible, it's the beginning of the end.
Well said all around! Glad to have someone so likeminded. Thanks for being here!
This is some of the most wonderfully enlightening content anywhere. Very very nicely done. You rock. ❤❤
Hey thanks so much!
Your insights and explanations are great! Thank you for this and your other videos!
My pleasure. Thanks for that kindness.
🙂@@MindShift-Brandon
My brother and i are both atheist and our mother always comes at us with the sad line "i just want to see you in heaven." It's hard to explain to her how little I care about a place as real to me as hogwarts.
But you made a good point about the contradiction of "self" in heaven. My mother will either hate heaven because she will have to watch 2 of her children be tourtured for all eternity or she will have to comfort the reality that she, as our loving mother, will either forget us entirely or not love us enough to care once shes there lest she jeopardize the perfection of heaven.
Its just so hard all around. If only we could all just wake up at the same time to these myths. Glad to help a little. Thanks for being here.
Or you can stop whinning and come up with solutions. Stop blaming your poor mom or dad when you do nothing to solve the problem.
@cocococop6082 genuinely curious, what do you think the problem is? And even better, how is it my job alone to solve?
@@stacie1595 I never said it was your job alone. The problem is how we view things. Do you know we can time travel? Yet we never use it when bringing people to Jesus Christ. Can you believe it. Also you know that whole gold mansion in heaven we always hear about? Why don't we take a small portion and use it as gold standard money? I mean it's just the way we see it. You know? Kind of the glass half full or half empty kind of thing. To me it's half full. More can be pour into it. Like all humans alive right now can become a Christian. I know for a fact. So.. . Working on that. Got any other solutions you can think of? Also for autistic kids did you know spirit cameras and time traveling trip like a field trip is all they really need? So they can object fully learm the truth of Christianity. It's not hard. We Christians just make it hard.
@@MindShift-Brandon I once saw someone online blame Isaac Newton for spending too much of his time on religion and not enough on science. That's like someone telling the world's strongest man he didn't spend enough time in the gym.
I almost made a catastrophic mistake by being made to relocate to where I grew up and absolutely hated and was filled with negative ghosts from the past - thinking that I was doing the greater good and it was only for a few decades before I’d be in heaven anyway and it wouldn’t matter. I was that delusional, but mercifully my survival instinct kicked in and I rejected the very idea because all that I love is where I am currently.
This video really spoke to that, especially toward the end, of wasting what we have now, or letting now be cast in gloom because we’re thinking what we should be doing to get up the tiers of bigger crowns.
I really enjoyed this journey on my Sunday, I’m still surprised at how much fear there is under the rocks in my head, you’ll point something out an I suddenly realise it’s there … so please be assured that you are really helping folks like me to process stuff I’m not even conscious of, plus occasionally to have a good laugh about it.
Hotdamn! I gave a 'like' half-way through, and I subbed at the end. Most excellent lecture.
Very kind! Thanks so much for being here
9:02 This is a very interesting point you made, since it reminded me of how the Good Place ended. When they eventually revamped how heaven worked they found out real quickly that living eternal happiness and fun can numb you really quickly. It is only until they made an option to “leave/die” that it made heaven worth living. I know it’s not the same thing as this topic since there is different circumstances but it is interesting
"The beauty of the finite" - this is a really really important statement. Thank you for it. One of my favourite activities is learning Spanish. It is the journey the I love. If someone with a click of their fingers made me fluent in Spanish - or even worse fluent in all languages I would be very upset and disappointed. This is why I think Cavafy's poem Ithaca is so important. Life is far more about the journey than the destination.
Thank you, have a good day. The Buscadero
To-do List
Heaven, day one: Glorify god
Heaven, day two: Glorify god
Heaven, day three: sigh....go glorify again all day
Heaven, day four: ffs..............
If you don't want to go to heaven, you're already all set!
Ha! Indeed.
@@MindShift-Brandon I assume you were raised a Christian. Is that correct?
@@20july1944
You seem to get a real kick out of the idea of some people suffering for eternity. This is one of the terrible consequences of believing nonsense stories about gods, heavens, and hells. Or, perhaps religions simply attract sociopaths, rather than creating them.
@@YY4Me133 No, I didn't say that at all -- I'm a conditionalist/annihilationist and we don't believe hell is eternal punitive suffering.
I would agree with you, and I often pray to God about this, that I don't support eternal punitive suffering even for Satan -- although I certainly don't seek his redemption either.
However, IF there is eternal punitive suffering, I'm compelled to live with it based on my inference that God exists and my desire to have a happy afterlife if it is available.
What you said at 5:25 brought me simultaneous comfort and dread. Dread because for about 20 years starting when I 1st started to really consider the implications of eternity there is like a 50% chance it leads to me having a panic attack of varying severity, there simply is no good option. The comfort just came from hearing another person deeply troubled by the topic.
From Software games like Dark Souls all include central themes that can help the player understand the concept that infinite life would be horrible no matter what the situation is. The verbiage that you use like “stagnation” makes me wonder if u have played these games too. Loving this summary.
I asked someone about the thought of "living forever". She took it as a state of mind where one could choose to be the eternal. I perceived we were on two different wave lengths. I might have to chat again to find out where she is coming from. Communication is near impossible when each person has different definitions for words. This video was very thought provoking.
Thats a great point and thank you!
As a child sitting in 2+ hour Evangelical church services, all I could think of was that, if I a couple of hours of church made me just about die from, how was I going to get through an eternity in heaven? It would be like church forever without even coffee and cookies to look forward to afterward. That's a hard no from me. Some movies have shown versions of heaven in which people retain their own identities, build, create--even fall in love--but even that kind of idyllic existence would lose its charm after a few hundred years.
Your last point hit me the hardest, I'm a member of the LGBTQ+ community and I accidentally came out to my mom at age 13 because I couldn't take anymore of the hateful, ignorant things she'd say. As a result, I was immediately sent to conversion "therapy" with a church elder who was a pedophile. Realizing that my only parent was happy to essentially destroy (and nearly cost me) my life in the name of "loving" god and longing for heaven was absolutely devastating. I was eventually able to love her again, n a guarded way but she was on her deathbed before she "forgave" me for my "sin" after giving me 37 years of o silent disapproval. Religion destroys families, lives, relationships, morality and human decency. I think of all the people whose entire purpose in life--all in the name of god--is to ruin the happiness and well-being of family, friends AND total strangers. What a waste.
quote: how was I going to get through an eternity in heaven?
After the 3rd hour, you would start to sneeze.
At the 4th hour you would silently piss under the bench.
At the 5th hour you would create a new world.
The world was created from something which could not hold his piss.
Well christians music is in all genres edm r&b rap rock whichever preference you need to look for it. Yes lgbt is demonic whether you like it or not. The common misconceptions is that the only thing you will do in heaven is worshipping?we will already have a very close relationship with God and there are Angels who do all the worshipping and never get tired. We will live in a golden city ,work according to the talents we were given by God,have feasts with jesus Christ, share our culture,talk to our ancestors and family members we never got to meet,a peaceful life ,play with animals even carnivores like lions since they won't even think of eating us,reunite with our pets that died,playing in garden which are way beautiful than we imagine,talk with angels....and so much more
@@joyirungu3592 Do you consider your supposed God to be perfect?
What she did to you is horrible no child of God deserves that
I am so sorry about what happened to you. As a Christian who is planning on leaving religion (I still believe in God, but I don't believe in theists' cruel version of Him. I don't believe He is perfect, I don't think He wants people to worship Him for eternity, I don't believe that He is completely in control of everything), that is so sick. This bs paints a horrible picture of God. Man, religious people take it way too far. The things they do "in the name of God" are so sinful. I hope things have gotten better. I'm praying that they do.
And then theists wonder why no one's joining their hypocritical, hateful, unnecessarily strict society anymore.
I am mind blown that I just discovered your channel. Great video!
I firmly believe the best decision I have ever made in my life was becoming atheist.
Thanks for being here!
Thanks for spreading the word. Love you.
Thanks for watching!
Still watching but again, Brandon, this is excellent 👌
How sad 😔 that Heaven is yearned for and the ‘carrot’ given to those worried about death. Don’t get me wrong, my head is mince by being indoctrinated into Christianity and believed all my life in this world view 😢.
Making my life count on earth and make a kind difference is the hope for me now.
You are making a REAL DIFFERENCE AND IMPACT for promoting REALITY.
Thank you!
Love that response. Thank you very much!
So I guess you're an atheist?
As a woman there's a whole other layer of why heaven is literally hell for us but this video was well done
Good point and thanks!
I will say this ... When I found out I was a girl. I screamed my head off. I knew I was put in a cursed horror of flesh called a female. I despised being female for a very long time. I'm straight. Just the most horrible life on earth ever is a females life.
no layer of Heaven is hell because of those who had near death experiences and thy did not want to come back to earth. Heaven was bliss to them
@@EdwardGraveline they arent the same person in heaven
@@coff2034 The soul of the person is the same that was on earth. We are made of body and soul
I really appreciate the way you've framed it. I grew up believing loosely in some afterlife, but it never really sat quite right with me in any sense or definition. Even after a deeply personal spiritual experience in my dreams where I thought I saw "what comes after", I still couldn't reconcile that sort of thinking. How does an eternity make sense in a reality where nothing is eternal? Even with the majesty and power of the stars, those celestial bodies wither away over time. How does meaning and purpose fit into a perfect life on the other side? It just doesn't, so either what little information (if any) we have is completely wrong, or there is nothing afterwards.
For some it's hard to embrace the fact that all we have is this life, that we are guaranteed nothing, and that we truly cannot know for certain what death entails. But once you cross that valley and you look the void in the eye, admit that you can't know what lies beyond, and that it might be just a much deeper sleep, there's a wonderful freedom to be had there. We get to live, to experience the fleetingness of it all, to put our own meaning to it, to learn and grow and feel; that's a privilege I won't trade for anything, not even the promise of blissful eternity. I would rather have my autonomy, my dignity, and my freedom to do what I love and to learn all I can.
As an autistic agnostic, what I like to imagine a true heaven would look like is basically a more complicated form of positive dreaming, and with more factors and situations that we haven't been able to feel before. Think of it like this: You will be able to think of every possible positive event that could ever happen and then some. You can choose to let some people actually experience them with you or not for whatever you and anyone else think it is appropriate or necessary. You don't have to hyper fixate on anything specific. You can always feel the risk of some things like going in adventure without suffering through the literal torture of it if you end up in a "bad" place. The concept of time won't matter and things won't repeat nearly as much if ever, so we wouldn't need to worry about the concept of infinity since every experience can be wildly different behind our current imagination. And of course, God would definitely not want to punish and send anyone to hell, said God would at the very least want to be fair and give them many chances since humans are complex enough creatures where even the most horrible person to ever exist could change their minds after enough time and convincing. If for whatever reason though a person becomes "bored" or a slave to the system, (Which is very unlikely but possible) there are two options: God could guide the person into the other infinite things they haven't experienced yet, or if against all odds that doesn't work to give the person an important and difficult (In a fair way) choice if they no longer wish to exist.
I do not follow any religion not because I do not believe God can't be real or because I am selfish, but because just as how an infinite number of things could happen with us, am infinite amount of results could be there for what God is like or if there is one, or heck if there is that there would still be an infinite amount of things proceeding that. And if God is indeed real, I definitely hope that they are forgiving and selfless enough to know that I am still a flawed human at the end of the day. If God is going to punish me for trying to think rationally for what is around me or having some errors, then I'm sorry but that is a very selfish and demanding God. God should just be another person to talk to and respect when we get the chance, we shouldn't have to fear them, and honestly I don't think that's what God would ever want either. If we are made in the image of God, then God needs to prove that to us when we meet them, which really shouldn't be hard at all to do, no manipulation required.
To solve the free will issue, we have to accept that heaven will indeed not be perfect, or at least maybe not in the eyes of what the Christian version of God would want. You *can* experience sin and suffering if you want to, or inflict it upon others if they choose to go through it, but it is still a choice. Kinks is just one example. And worst case scenario, you can have literal fake stand-ins or robots do it for you. The reason why God, in my mind, doesn't do that for Earth is down to several factors, such as God genuinely wanting nothing to do to tamper with it themselves like with heaven, (Except Earth is a more extreme and limited version of it I guess?) it being too brief in the grand scheme of things, knowing that everyone in the end will still end up being rational in the end despite everything that happens on Earth, etc. etc. It’s not a perfect solution, but I at least thing something similar to it can explain away why Earth exists the way it does since it's supposedly the "testing grounds" or "first life experiences" phase. And at the end of it all, we wouldn't be able to get bored nearly as easily because we would no longer be bound to our Earthly limitations of thought. Humans on Earth can eventually get bored of a good thing when it lasts long enough, humans in heaven wouldn't have to and change it right before that happens since there's an infinite amount of blah blah blah, to the point where it's so infinite that you could even be the first and only person to think of something among that infinity.
The reason why life will still be special in this instance is because the bad things will be an exaggeration of expectations afterwards, and the good things you do is just a taste of what makes yourself worth living. I know not all of this is a perfect explanation, but I hope you can at least understand why I think it is possible. Heaven in this scenario is not a 100% paradise, but it is still definitely more of a paradise than what we have on Earth. Yes the suffering and pain on Earth is not justified, but I can only think that continues to happen because God is not interfering with *anything* and that it is not an accurate representation of heaven, it is a test. A cruel test for sure, but still a test. You often don't hate a colonel on a personal level for abusing you because they’re real goal is to train you, to be better prepared for what lies ahead. They do it because it's their job to survive, to make you grow. I think God is much of the same way, just les obvious. Am I saying that all the pain is good? Absolutely not. But will it be worth it for what is out in the beyond? I'd say most likely yes, even if it takes awhile to get there. The moral of our existence, to me at least, is to *never give up hope.* And yes, it is not a coincidence that Star Wars is one of my favorite franchises of all time for that exact message. Even the worst person imaginable, Darth Vader, (Who was arguably more powerful than he ever could have been as a Jedi and more than Emperor Palpatine) can have such a complex history and eventually come out on top to redeem himself. I think Star Wars is a more exaggerated and straightforward way of presenting that message, but it's still a good one. I do find it ironic though that most of the fandom it is based on goes against the silliness of it all and is full of absolute rage with whatever they don't like. It's sad when people can't even appreciate something as simple as that. I can't imagine being so upset even over the smallest of things for something entirely fictional.
Overall, I think the rough idea of what I think heaven *could* be like is still better than the rather scary concept of nonexistence because things would at least happen and can bring positivity. Again, is it a perfect solution? No. But I do think it's better. I don't subscribe to the ideas of what religions tell us, I follow my common sense, morals, normal human expectations, etc., but even with that it's still bias. I'm not gonna pretend that humans will ever know the full story. It's like Michael from Vsauce once said: "The universe isn't weird/strange, *we are…"*
Anyways I doubt anyone will read through all of this mountain of text, but if you somehow did then thanks, and sorry in advance. Lol
You are forgiven :P
What you're describing could be the afterlife of some other religion, but not Christianity as it is right now. It doesn't include singing, bowing, praying, or worshiping forever into eternity, which is a defining factor of Christian heaven
@ZacharyDietze I don’t think you will have autism in heaven, nor any other issues. The Bible speaks of fullness of joy forever, you aren’t gonna get sick of that. Also you should watch the video called shocking youth message by Paul Washer and look more into Christianity and the Bible.
@@noahcole6856"...speaks of fullness of joy forever, you aren't gonna get sick of that."
So what you're saying is that we'll be trapped and be reprogrammed like robots to only feel one emotion, no matter what?
That sounds like Hell.
@@Wiggimus dude why do you think heaven is bad, that doesn’t even make sense
@noahcole6856 It makes total sense. All you have to do is read what you wrote. If a person is legitimately being forced to be happy, then that person has no autonomy. What makes this so much worse is that this forced joy is applied to forced worship. Because apparently, the Christian god is so weak and narcissistic that it "needs" dead humans to show it adoration at all times for all eternity.
Also, while we're here, is it actually joy if it's being forced? If I were to take control over your body and manipulate you like a video game character, are *you* actually experiencing joy, or am I just pushing your body into giving off what other people are perceiving as joy?
There are two things that always got me about the idea of heaven. First is that if you always feel awesome and cool in heaven and there's no suffering, how do you know that it's awesome? There's nothing bad to compare it to. In life, you only know that you're happy because you know what it's felt like to feel sad. Good can't exist without bad, because otherwise it would just be neutral.
The second is how can heaven be heaven for everyone? My idea of what would be heaven is completely different to someone elses. Having an endless supply of pickles would be awful for me since I can't stand them, but it would be amazing for someone else. Having tons of dogs that I can pet and love on would be amazing for me, but some people don't like dogs. How can heaven account for every single person in it? Or would we all get our own individual/specialised heavens? What if that isolationism would be hell for me?
I thought abt this too and again, if everyone experiences the same feeling of happiness in heaven, that means god manipulates our emotion, we wouldn't have free will. It rlly is stupid
Do you have to isolate ?
I suspect that you have to brainwash yourself to liking god or else you get kicked out, kinda like lucifer
When you stay a child and want all your dreams to be fulfilled later instead of living Today then you are fit to stay infantile forever and be a Christian. If not then you learn to live now.
@@TorianTammas what are you babling about ?
The freewill issue or question in heaven is what started me researching and questioning and eventually no longer accepting my faith from my youth.
It will do that! Thanks for watching
FANTASTIC analysis. I almost never hear someone talk about the "problem of heaven". It's literally the second worst option.
Ha. Indeed it is. Thanks for watching!