What NO ONE Tells You About Growing Up in Christianity
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 24 มิ.ย. 2024
- What is the key to "true joy"? What is considered a modern idol or false god? What does a relationship with God look like from outside Christianity? All these questions and more are answered in this video, which focuses on Kat's experience growing up in Evangelical Christianity.
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Character art created by Bento San, you can find more of his amazing work here: linktr.ee/jdbento_san
Audio produced by Fate Works Audio
⏱ TIMESTAMPS:
00:00 - Intro
01:15 - Kat's relationship with God
03:00 - Definition of Idol
04:40 - Living for an eternal future
09:15 - J.O.Y.
11:06 - Toxic self love & being unworthy
12:26 - Mental Health in the Chruch
15:03 - Changes in thinking
16:21 - Indoctrination
17:38 - Taking a step back - "relationship" with God
20:15 - Free Will?
22:33 - Deconstruction and "the other side"
🔗 VIDEO LINKS:
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Congratulations to you for finding your way out of all that mess. Good luck to you on your continued growth.
I have never been a believer. But I am certain your story will help others who are finding their way out.
And I don’t know much about the rope guy, but l’m fairly certain his little red portion of the timeline is TOTALLY good to go and he has nothing to worry about while he takes his flocks money as they "invest" in their "eternal life."
Liked and subscribed.
Religion is a death cult. Your life on earth is nothing compared to heaven. It’s crazy looking back how brainwashed I was. How I wanted Jesus to come back and just bring us all back to heaven. To not appreciate the present moment because life on earth is just a waiting room. I feel all of this, great video
Imagine if there was no heaven.
We would be more focused on improving our world instead of waiting to “be sent to our true home”. Our lives might’ve been better if we weren’t focused on such prospects
@@thatonedude932 That may be true to you but remember we all think differently than everyone else. I have known God for over 40 years and live a normal life and just help others in need around me and found out it’s better to give than receive.
Gosh, that sounded almost physically painful to me! My only experience in a church: my grandmother took me to the service once, I saw scary paintings (you know, the one with the head on a plate, ugh) and I said "No. More. Never." She didn't have a chance to indoctrinate me =D Here in Ukraine religion is rather obsolete, even though few people say it out loud.
My parents weren't that religious. My Mom has always let me know that I'm the most important, and I though it was too much to be such a "VIP", haha! Yet I was grateful and I love her immensely. She, on the other hand, was a victim of "you're not enough" phrase, because her parents were loyal to the ex ussr (which was built cult-ish). It took me years to assure her that she was the best person in my entire life. She would sometimes ask questions like "What if I became a bad person?" and I'd reply "I'd still love you because you're my mom". And she would sit there quietly, amazed. I felt to sorry that her parents didn't give her even half of all that love that she gives me. They lived in what we may call a disguised theocracy. Cults are bad, whatever they are.
Kat, thank you for making this video. Hearing the voices of the exvangelicals and deconstructed is very important. It sounds like you grew up in a prosperity gospel-type church, especially given your reference to Francis Chan. I'm sorry for the emotional baggage you've been yoked with. A proper reading of the Bible would yield the result that humans, being ALL created in the image of God, are worthy of dignity and respect. My heart grieves the fact that you were led to believe that someone's dignity flows from their faith and dedication to the religious system of Christianity. I'd encourage you to look into Dr. Gavin Ortlund's experience with deconstruction and his thoughts on the matter (it's on TH-cam). The only truly intellectual way of discovering truth is to expose yourself to the best arguments for and agains your presuppositions and beliefs. Along with his other relevant videos, I think you'll find great insight and, like me, realize that your Christian upbringing was not at all what it appeared to be growing up. Thank you again!
Wow, this one was kind of heavy, but in a good way. I see some similarities in my journey compared to Kat's. Although, mine came later in life, about halfway through college. My parents were believers, and it guided some but not all of their actions, but they almost never went to church, and didn't push church on us. But I went often enough with friends that I understood what it was all about. What I didn't understand was all the different tweaks on Christianity that made them think they needed to put a denomination on the name. Like, I get that there would be differences, because people are different, but not so much as to put together an entirely different church. The most disturbing thing to me was the segregation. I understand that people like being around people like themselves in a lot of instances, but shouldn't the worship of God kind of have a more universal tendency? Which is how I came to the more spiritual time in my life in college. It was a church that believed in "making disciples of all nations" as it is noted in the great commission. I went to a mid-week service, and the church looked like life. People of all races and backgrounds, all loving and hugging and talking to each other, calling each other bro and sister. And it claimed to not have a denomination. They studied the bible with me, and showed me what the bible says about how a church should look, and it was clearly modeled after what was written. I fell in love with what I believed God to be about, and this looked like it. But like so many other things, after some years, it became corrupted. It seems like anything that has an anti-questioning clause in it, like religious belief (faith is being certain of what you can't see, after all) is self-corrupting, or maybe more accurately, will be corrupted by people because power, and hanging on to it, is just soooo tempting. The bible is a large and varied work, and you can pretty much find a scripture to support any kind of organization you want in your church, and that is how things went awry. Like Joe, I wondered why God couldn't make everything blatantly clear so that one could discern what his true will is. And this new (to me) church made it clear that other churches, other denominations, were not emphasizing being true disciples. From what I learned about the bible, it seemed like other forms of Christianity weren't actual Christianity. Maybe there were really truly Christians in those churches, but the organizations themselves weren't really the kingdom of God. It made me see all the flaws in traditional Christianity. So, when this church became corrupted, and started alienating some of its own members, myself included, I left, believing that it no longer held to the message I was so enamored by at first. But there was nothing better to go to. It was all corrupted. So I became something of a Christian drifter, believing for a time, but with nowhere to go. So I looked to the bible for answers, and it was there that I figured out that having removed my pre-suppositions, the bible reads a LOT differently than it was being taught. It starts to look a LOT like a self-perpetuating, man-made creation. If you question, you aren't being a good disciple. By putting god first, others second, and yourself not only last, but undeserving of love (but god loves me anyway), it really grabs you and won't let go. I am naturally the sort of person who puts others first anyway, and I naturally feel guilty when I'm doing something I love when I could be doing something that makes someone else happy. I have tons of empathy. Think of how that can rope you in to an organization that emphasizes those traits! I'm still a helper. I prefer to be doing big things that no one else wants to do, that are behind the scenes, and that don't get a lot of recognition, but I find I need a lot of downtime as a result to be able to recharge that battery, as it does take a lot of energy. It's actually the reason I began to be alienated. The church leaders wanted the church to grow, and grow really fast. They became so obsessed with the numbers that everything became about getting new people converted and part of the church. So, they started valuing social skills in fellowship and being that kind of social butterfly over other forms of service. So rather than a behind the scenes person who just wasn't wanting recognition, I became known as one of the "weak" disciples. And weak disciples seek each other out to wallow in their misery together. It was horrible. No one wanted to be around me, because they thought I was weak, and they didn't want to be corrupted by my weakness. How quickly all that brotherly and sisterly love turned into shunning. It was by design, I do believe. The advice that I got from my leaders was to be like the social butterflies. To hang out with them, and die to my old self to be recreated to be what God wanted. That didn't sit well with me, and it neglected a lot of other Christ-like traits that were also needed. I tried it for a while, and felt so completely detached from reality, trying to be an actor every waking hour, that I was quickly descending into depression. Clearly that was not what God wanted, and clearly the church had lost its way, so I left. Even leaving was seen as a betrayal, not only of god, but of all the other church members. All that love they poured into you was thrown on the ground and purposefully stomped on. It didn't take me long to right my ship after that, and to feel grounded again, but no longer having a good example of what a church should be, it definitely felt like drifting on my own. While it took a long time to get to where I am now, I am thankful for the experience, because it opened my eyes to the potential for manipulation that is possible for people like me, whose empathy and desire to be a helper is so strong that I can open myself up to possible abuse.
From Kat - Although I grew up in the church, my deconstruction started a bit later as well, I was questioning things in my early 20s, but didn't start actually deconstructing until I was in my late 20s. I totally understand about being a helper, I definitely still am and I do think I am more of an empath than most, and unfortunately, as you said that makes it easy for manipulation. Thank you so much for sharing, I can see the similarities in our stories! I'm glad we could learn from that experience, and I hope our stories can help others that might be feeling the same way!
We totally get where you are coming from, usually what we observe in churches, specifically across denominations, is the No True Scotsman fallacy. (This fallacy is when someone defends an assertion by disallowing, by definition, all counterexamples, emphasizing that we are only talking about true examples of whatever population is under consideration.) In essence, they would say you were never a TRUE Christian. This denies your experiences and paints you as part of the out-group instead of having a genuine conversation or presenting their perspective. It's so weird to us that there are so many different denominations of Christianity that believe different things, and they tend to treat their own denomination as the in-group, and other denominations as the out-group, despite supposedly being one body of Christ.
You are right about the in and out grouping, and it actually probably explains a lot about how we get so many denominations. Once as a church leader you have declared something to be true, you don’t want your congregation questioning it, because they may start also questioning the whole message, so you have to double down and say you are right and other denominations are wrong. “Sticky” human institutions tend to have that out group threat built in. If there’s no one to vilify, it’s hard to set up the fear and zeal that keeps butts in seats. Churches need butts in seats to exist, because it takes money to maintain a building and a pastor. Clearly a religion that has existed for thousands of years is going to have a LOT of defense mechanisms built in, otherwise it would have faded out a long time ago. It’s so sad to think of all those red rope sections wasted in the false hope of the longer rope that doesn’t exist. Or to see otherwise good and reasonable people abuse others because they think it is the right thing to do.
@@lokilawson
If you don't believe Jesus is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, then eternity for you will be darkness forever.
@@PETERJOHN101hi, and thank you for addressing me directly after seeing a bit about my story in my comment. I would love to discuss this with you if you have evidence to support your claim. The only thing I would ask is that we both avoid or at least be willing to correct any logical fallacies in the discussion when we accidentally use them and it gets pointed out. Not sure if Joe and Kat would be interested in participating and following such a discussion, but they seem to be quite good at spotting logical fallacies, and could point them out when they see them. If you can present incontrovertible evidence to support your claim, you’ll have me as a believer.
So for what it's worth I'd have had the leadin be the start of your relationship comparison rather than the conclusion, at least if you didn't want to turn off anyone who didn't already agree with it. They already have a good reason to know you're talking about God after all.
Also that's a very broad definition of idol, I can see the logic leading to it but wow. I always heard it with the golden bull and like statues of virgin mary as examples.
0:05 Most forms of Christianity is inherently abusive. Christianity really isn't a singular thing, so each has to be evaluated for how bad it may be.
Different forms of Christianity don't exist. You either know Christ or you don't. If you know him, you know the truth. If you don't, it's just another set of ideas. Pursue the truth, not a philosophy.
@@PETERJOHN101 lolz there are THIRTY THOUSAND denominations, and NONE of them can agree on most things. Stop lying.
Christ! Here u go again! god. Is not. Real.
@@kristinehollingsworth8471I agree with you insomuch as I have no evidence to believe that god is real. But I don’t mind hearing this person’s perspective. If they have irrefutable evidence that god is real and that their specific belief in God’s nature is the correct one (as opposed to all the other religions out there), then I would love to see that evidence presented. Let’s see if this person has something like that, and is willing to share it with us all.
If you want something violent about christianity Remember to pull up lines of the old testament, Might bore viewers out and just twist the book 360 degrees and completeflety forget about the new testament. Your making Athiests look bad and your embarrasing me, Cognative discodence. You know islam is the only bad thing in this world at the moment yet would choose christianity, Like christianity where you grow up is probably way more different, Different factors, Same could be applied to muslims but lets be honest if a book say 6 and 9 years old you know somethings up,
peronally all the christians seeing this comment carry on the good work never falter cause your god seems to make sense more than anything else at the minute. From a pagan-"ish" guy Hope christians could pray for me if it will work.
We are secular BECAUSE. of christianity. Nothing secular in the middle east north africa and western asia with a few exceptions Like turkey or Azerbaijan . Secularism I.E Subsaharan Africa The Americas Europe, East asia except parts of the indonesian sphere. ANTARCTICA 💀 Cmon guys dont misinform people
The past doesn’t always apply to the present. In the past the law was implemented and now we live under Grace.
There is no wonder as to why young people today have so much anxiety, it's because what people thought would give them freedom only made them prisoners to the wind. There is a direct connection between anxiety and lawlessness. Having no certainty about anything is the same as being totally insecure. Things that are no longer up for question are things you no longer have to worry about. There's freedom in rules and structure because there's security in it. We may need to think outside the box sometimes but we must not forget that the box is whole point. Believe me it's quite tiresome to have to constantly rediscover the wheel every time you have a problem. It's funny how people who believe so much in the scientific method are so quick to dismiss the data and conclusions gathered from an experiment that has been running since at least as long as human beings have existed. Yep, throw out all that knowledge, smart!
When you know Jesus you don't play the victim or blame others for your unhappiness. Anyone who follows your lead will just fall into greater darkness.
Icky. Quit being a weiner
What are you talking about?
Christians play the victim all the time. The Bible even has passages implying that you aren't really a Christian unless you are being persecuted.
Christian doctrine blames Adam, Eve, and Satan for every bad thing in the world. It's their goto response to the problem of evil. Don't try to tell me that they never blame others for their unhappiness.
So, it sounds like what you are saying is that if you are being abused by your church for instance, you must not claim to be a victim. I would suspect that one of the now adults who was abused sexually by their priest or pastor as a child, and had it covered up and protected by the church, might have a different opinion. That is certainly NOT a reflection on God if he does exist, but one would think that you would not be opposed to people exposing the abuse that they experienced in the institution that is supposed to be built around the worship of God, and seeking and saving the lost. Why wouldn’t you want light to be shone in those dark places so that they can be fixed? Claiming that church leaders should be immune from criticism because their members must not play victim, is a recipe for disastrous abuse. Jesus’ most harsh words were against the religious leaders of the day, who granted themselves authority over others by taking advantage of their eagerness to obey God. What makes us think that such corruption could not happen now as well? Whether or not I believe in God is irrelevant on this point.
Atheism never comforts anyone or takes away any of the pain, it just kills hope.
@@jeremyhinken3365sadly hope and comfort aren’t proof of anything. I remember being profoundly disappointed when I learned about Santa, but I picked myself up, put my reality together, and lived my life, now understanding that magic is not real. And I ended up with a new appreciation for my parents. I remember my dad having to raid a piggy bank once to pay for the gas to get himself back and forth for work for that week. And yet, somehow, my parents managed to make Christmas Day full of joy and dreams come true. Not believing in god or an afterlife can give you a new appreciation of the life you have, and of our place in the universe, a small blue planet orbiting an average star near the outer rim of an average galaxy full of billions of stars, in a cluster of a handful of other galaxies, surrounded by billions of even more galaxies. That fills me full of wonder and awe.
May God help you find the True religion - you keep saying "The Church" .... what the heck is that? with 33,000 different Protestant denominations? Did it ever occur to you that there is only one Truth and one Church? And perhaps what you know and learn is actually wrong.
Protestantism has only existed for about 500 years while the Christian Orthodoxy has existed for 2,000 years. Protestantism is considered heterodox.
You. Are. Mentally ill. These guys are wonderful; stop being weird to them.
@@kristinehollingsworth8471 You know why you call people "holy" - because they are whole .... speaking of mental illness LOL sanctity comes from the work sanity - the closer one is to God the more whole they are. .... it is just that simple - of course Protestantism can never accomplish that - it is corrupt man made religion.
Which one is the true one, out of genuine curiosity? None of them seem to comport with reaIity
@@lottylee3635 The one that was started by Jesus Christ of course - all the rest are man made.
The mystery of God.
There are a lot of questions and God has all the answers.
But He’s not giving out the answers so easily. 😊
How many times did Jesus explain something to the disciples but they still didn’t understand because God kept it from them.
It talks about the vail that blinds the Jewish people so that they don’t understand.
Even the 12 didn’t know Jesus was the lamb of God but some of the people did because God must have told them.
The Bible is written in code.
And no denomination has figured it out.
Think you know the Bible?
Then show me a hell doctrine from the Old Testament. 😂
The “hell and brimstone god of the Old Testament”
Maybe God keeps some things from people until the right moment to reveal it to them? Remember everything that happens is for a purpose and means that God determines because we are all created for Gods purposes and not ours Ephesians 2v10.. let go and let thy God determine his own purpose for all of us because ultimately it’s thy Gods will be done and not are own will be done.
Bible is false folks
@@davidrexford586 Just WHEN is the "right moment"??? After we die? - As in the church hymn "We Will Understand it Better By and By"? If that's the case, what good is that? Everything is already set in stone at that point.
@@Sealust50maybe the right moment is any day past the age of accountability?
That day when you start to understand right from wrong around 12 or 13 years old.
Maybe that’s the time God starts wooing people towards him through all kinds of different ways and maybe people just reject those times and keep resisting.
And then if they keep resisting the older they get , God gives them over to their own devices in the hope that death itself will be the wake up call..
Honestly I don’t know how it all plays out as one individual Soul to another as we all decide alone from each other what we will ultimately believe in ourselves.
@@davidrexford586 You're missing the point of my question. I'm not referring to when God reveals to a person that they are in sin, I'm referring to all of the UNANSWERED questions people have, even the ones that christians ignore or decide to not acknowledge for convenience and comfort sake - like "If God is perfect, incapable of making mistakes, and all loving, WHY did HE create EVIL in the first place? That question is just one of many. We need answers to those questions NOW, not later.