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Original Video by Redeemed Zoomer - • ALL atheist arguments ...
Today's episode is a reaction to Redeemed Zoomer's video on atheist arguments. He rapidly fires through 40 arguments that atheists make against god. Some are strong, most are strawmen. Come with me as I go through all 40 of them for the first time.
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Chapters:
0:00 Intro
0:48 Video Intro
1:11 Religion Causes Wars
2:41 People Do Evil In The Name Of Religion
3:39 If You Lived Elsewhere, You Wouldn't Be Christian
4:17 How Do You Know Which Religion Is True?
4:51 There's No Scientific Proof That God Exists
5:48 There's No Evidence Of Anything Supernatural
6:47 The Bible Has Contradictions
7:57 The Gospels Were Anonymous
8:41 The Gospels Misquote Jesus
9:45 Jesus Never Claimed To Be God
10:52 Gospel Order And Legend
12:36 The Bible Supports Slavery
15:14 Christianity Has Supported Slavery
16:28 God Killed Tons Of People In The Bible
17:22 Atheist Countries Are More Prosperous
19:04 The Believer Is An Atheist To Other Gods
20:39 If God Made Everything, Who/What Created God?
22:45 Science Disproves God
23:58 God Is Just A Gap Filler
26:12 The Problem Of Evil/Suffering
28:36 Can God Make A Rock He Can't Lift?
29:44 Why Did God Let Evil Exist At All?
30:42 Religion Is Just Wishful Thinking
31:57 Psychology Explains Why You Believe In God
32:58 Spiritual Experiences Can Be Explained By Brain Chemicals
34:18 Drug Trips VS Spiritual Experiences
35:23 The Story Of Jesus Was Copied From Horus
37:03 Faith Is The Opposite Of Logic And Reason
38:25 Evolution Proves God Didn't Make The World
39:25 Christianity Only Spread Because Of Military Conquest
40:17 Constantine Invented Modern Christianity
40:58 Why So Many Christian Denominations?
42:06 There's No Evidence For Jesus Outside The Bible
42:50 Personal Relationship?
44:43 Final Thoughts
46:40 Patron Thanks
#atheistargument #debunkingatheism #badathesitarguments #mindshift #atheism #atheist #exchristian - บันเทิง
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This was a fun one! Looking back during the editing process, I did wish I had taken more time or scripted some replies, as there's so much more to be said here. But it is what it is. Enjoy!
Nice vid.
You made a short cameo in my latest cartoon, and honestly I'd be interested in your take on the subject matter.
I find it's rarely addressed by apologists.
I will check it out soon, thanks!@@B.S._Lewis
These arguments are rehashed by all the goddy people all the time. You’ll have to revisit them soon enough, even if you don’t want to. 😄👍🏻
@@MindShift-Brandon Be prepared to cover your eyes & ears!
I'm done with superlatives, friend, BUT here's the last two: Your work is world-class.. Your insights are potentially transformative on much wider scales.. Don't slow down, Brother.. Peace.
Imagine claiming “there are medically documented cases of demon possession” and not thinking you need to provide any citations.
It was one amazing statement after the other.
Demonic-Possession Phenomenon Merits Scientific Study
AMIN MUHAMMAD GADIT, M.D.
Its difficult to find the cases themselves because its all hearsay technically but this article is a good piece to help understand why the claim is made.
You beat me to it. Are there documents on the names of the demons? Were they lesser demons or princes of hell? Was there a particular odor or sensation? GIMMIE FACTS!
@@thegametroll6264 he literally puts a picture of the book written on it. Do you want a list of autopsy reports? A file of wierd medical cases from around the world all in a pretty bow? What non-existent form of documentation would be most convenient for you.
Isn't it just a little odd how most of these "demonic possessions" seem to exclusively afflict those who already believed in demonic possessions? Most of these documented cases "happen" to God-fearing Christians, and many (if not most) are Catholic.
Isn't it also odd that if demonic possession were true, it would seriously harm the Christian concept of "Free-will?"
I would argue that if this wasn't a violation of free will, this phenomenon, if real, would happen almost exclusively to non-believers, as they are "choosing" not to follow Christ.
"God created evil so he could be glorified in defeating it"
I set a house on fire, but also put the fire out so you should praise me for doing so. However, I let the fire rage on for a long time despite the fact that I could've put it out at any time.
right?! its an insane defense.
So are you saying god makes mistake?
@@spongebob3649 That's not a mistake. That's deliberate evil. Good thing he doesn't exist though.
@@pythondrinkgood thing the higher function of your prefrontal cortex doesn't exist.
Free will was more important to God than a sinless reality. Otherwise, you just get a bunch of robots that only do what you tell them to. Let's say you had a child and told her to do something, but she was already forcibly programmed to do whatever you tell her to do. Now, let's say you had another child who you let have their own thoughts, feelings, and emotions so that he is capable of making his own decision of whether or not he should obey you. Which one of these is a healthier interactive relationship? Which child is obeying you because they love you? Which child is obeying you because they are forced to?
What does free will have to do with anything? Well God did not create sin exactly. God made it possible for his creation to disobey Him which is sin. God put a tree in the middle of the garden even though He knew what would happen because He wanted humanity to have a choice. They could do what He explicitly stated not to do and introduce corruption, or they could have a good relationship with God. If a friend of yours set only one simple boundary for you, who would you be to cross that boundary? Even after humanity had crossed the boundary, he still gave us a way out of sin too. Therefore, I would say God is a gracious friend if you help Him help you.
At 12:48: "Slave owners in the American South had slave Bibles for their slaves to read but it omitted a lot of the real Bible." I am a historian and much of my research has been on American slavery. Slaves were almost uniformly illiterate and practically none of them could have read anything. I challenge this person to give the citation to this abridged Bible that was supposedly composed for slaves "to read."
Didn’t most (if not all) slave states even go so far as to make it illegal to teach slaves to read?
That's an excellent point. I'm guessing maybe white people preached to them out of this carefully edited bible.
Wow that’s actually just basic history that there were edited bibles for slaves.
look up “Select Parts of the Holy Bible for the use of the Negro Slaves in the British West-India Islands”, an abridged KJV used for education and conversion purposes- unlikely the slaves actually read it, rather it was read to them.
Bruh u dont think slave owners tried to put them on christianity and preach to them about it themselves? Them being uneducated just made all the more reason for them to believe. Just do ur own research a bit and youll see its true why do u think christianity, the most prevalent religion in america, is so prevalent among african american households.
"If god is real, why don't I have a GF yet!?" I've known quite a few atheists in my 58 years and I've yet to meet one that says anything even remotely that stupid.
Yeah that pie chart was pretty belligerent. Really set the tone of condescension and dishonesty.
The problem is that Redeemed Zoomer is arguing with stereotypical "Reddit Atheists" so of course their claims are going to sound like it's coming from an incel.
@@genericfirstnamegenericlas6490 "Stereotypical Reddit atheist" is just a made up used to insult atheists. It's a disingenuous objection.
@@pythondrinkits not sadly
It's not lol @@pythondrink
I know a few people who don't take theology seriously at all.
"Causation doesn't mean correlation unless it points to my religion being good. Then it was clearly caused by my religion. But if it's bad, then it's not my religion's fault."
right! the immediate hypocrisy was startling!
@@MindShift-Brandon God takes all the glory when good things happen, but none of the blame when bad things happen.
@@PatrickWDunneWhat do you mean
@@blufyres
Think of it as a sports team: when they win the players thank God for leading them to victory, but if they lose then they blame it on a bad play or lack of team cohesion and training. It couldn't be maybe God favored the other team over them, or God was upset at some of the players for sinning so he set them at odds. God is never at fault.
@@jovenc4508God has the average league of legends player mentality after they lose a match lol
An atheist doesn't have to prove that you're belief isn't true. We dont need arguments to not believe in what YOU claim.
Perfectly put, Sandi!
@@MindShift-Brandon really? This accounts for a perfectly put argument? I need to remember that.
*The greatest threat to knowledge isn't ignorance. It is the illusion of knowledge.* - DANIEL BOORSTIN
“Debunking ALL atheist arguments” when he actually agreed with at least 2 of them
Right. And he missed the one about Jesus's sacrifice being completely unnecessary because God could just choose to forgive everyone for free. Or just not judge and condemn us in the first place.
@@earthaforester3141 if theorically a god of justice exists, then i doubt if the nature of sin is just so great that he'd simply not condemn it, it would be an injustice in itself. (not an argument about his existence)
Words to Remember:
That's not an argument that Athiests use to oppose God's existence in general, it's a counterargument to a specific claim made by theologians to defend a particular God.
"It's not an argument, it's a counterargument"
indeed!
Religious people always try to shift the burden of proof
¬(A→B) is not the same as ¬B
Some people can't grasp how the burden of proof works LMAO.
@@daniel-panek I deny that you are conscious because there is no evidence or proof that you are conscious. If you say that you are conscious all I see is behavior. Who knows, you could be AI?
But..... actually I do believe that you are conscious even though I don't have any proof or evidence. But maybe I shouldn't. Maybe I should think that I am the only conscious being in the Universe because there is no evidence to the contrary but I do know that I am conscious, even though I cannot prove it. I don't just merely believe that I am conscious, I KNOW I am. The philosophic zombie meets Descartes.
What ticked me off the most is Redeemed Zoomer just brushing over "If you were born elsewhere you wouldn't be a Christian" like it was totally irrelevant and unimportant. Did he seriously see no issue with a person's salvation being like 90% dependent on your place and time of birth, something you have zero control over?
right?! thank you.
Gods are a human concept introduced through assertion and demonstrated through circular arguments. The attributes and characteristics of the claim are dependent on the latitude and longitude of those making the claim.
none at all. The injustice of the 'just' god doesn't even factor into his thinking.
It is entirely irrelevant to whether something is true or not because it's a logical fallacy known as the genetic fallacy. You should look it up on logically fallacious. YT automatically deletes external links...
He is a calvanist, he believes that we don't have free will
i love how RZoomer just straight up agreed with the first three points. it was always "yeah, but..." but it WAS a yeah. "Religion causes wars" "yeah, but not ALL wars"
Of course religion causes wars, just like anything else does
we can clarify that...I would even say that he only ment crusades, with his point xD
So yeah, the purely religious driven wars, might be just 7%, if u count'em in numbers.
There were 91 military crusades. 75 of'em were officially sanctioned by the pope.
And if u just count these papal crusades, it will add up to *843 years of crusading wars* xDD
(overlapping crusades, just so no one is getting confused, how so many years r possible, if the crusades were 'only' from 1095-1717)
well, saying there is no wars caused by religions is just plain stupid
Is there really a war not caused by religion? I can't think of one. But so what. It's not the same religion in each case, so does that really mean anything at all? Or is it fair and honest to say, mankind will worship something and what he loves enough to worship, he loves enough that he will take life in order to preserve that "thing."
@@matthewsmith2578 That would also be wrong...
Religion wasn't used as an excuse for the 2 biggest wars in History, for example...
WW1 was caused by the assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand, the heir to the austrian throne.
And WW2 was caused by a austrian lunatic who thought Germans were the pinnacle of human evolution.
So yeah, we might have to look more into these austrians xD
God creating evil so he can be glorified for it gives the same energy as Minecraft players purposefully turning a villager into a zombie only to cure them afterwards for better trades.
As someone who does that, at least we are actually gaining something but a "perfect" god doesnt need anything, so he isnt even gaining something he couldnt have just willed into existence...
@@Nerift4832 True
@@Nerift4832 So God doing that would be like someone doing this in creative mode, where they've already gotten all of the achievements and built a massive mega base with hundreds of stacks of everything they could ever want (enchantments included), but they just want the villagers to suffer and praise them... and I thought my sister going out of her way to kill peaceful mobs in creative mode was mean
god didn't do all that so he could gain something god knew adam and eve were going to sin he let it happen so he could show his grace and mercy if god never let sin happen we would not follow him by faith god loves us all and i love you all and i pray god will show you the light
@@SuperCatLoverKidlies. That’s a dumb explanation.
"Religious wars" are never about religion. They are culture clashes where the cultures have different religions. Dawkins cited an old joke from the Irish "troubles" as an illustration. A man is asked "are you a catholic or a protestant." Wanting to stay out of any conflict the man says, "I am an atheist." The questioner then asks, "Yeah, but are you a catholic atheist or a protestant atheist."
"Do you like science or do you not like science?" Great point! So often in conservative Christianity there's this flip-flopping between whether science "proves" God (or whether "science" proves God) or whether science is a conspiracy to remove God from schools and society.
right?! so frustrating.
They often tried science the same way they treat "good and evil". Count the hits and ignore or deny the misses. This is exactly how people "reason" when they have a predetermined conclusion.
@MindShiftSkeptic Yeah.🙄
Yes.🙄
@dougt7580 Yes.
He can’t even knock down his out-of-context strawmen. Dude is still working out of the day 1 apologetics starter kit.
Redeemed Zoomer was recommended to me a lot on TH-cam and I've been looking forward to a video like this one addressing him. Thank you for taking the time to refute bad arguments.
It was my pleasure. Thanks for being here!
But it wasn't a good refutation of RZ's arguments.
@@matthewsmith2578 you're more than welcome to explain why you think that's the case
@@luigi2901 month later still no reply... I wonder why?
@@Noise-ConductorI'm curious about that too
A few years ago I stepped outside the doors of Christianity, I got down to the sidewalk, but for some reason I kept looking back at that door. Thanks to your bible study, I I'm now down down the street, around the corner, on the next block. I can't even see the damn door. I should have read the entire book earlier in life. I have been binge watching your channel since i discovered just a week ago. I'm also excited to read some of the books you've mentioned. Thank you.
I am so happy for you and so happy to have been a part of this for you. Keep going! and thank you for letting me know.
Check out Paulogia. He often mention how he de-converted, and what things bother him.
The truth is you've never really read the book until you read the sources they appropriated from in the Greek and the Hebrew and then understand that even the Masoretes recorded that they thought the copies they translated the Masoretic text from were corrupted. Congratulations on breaking free. The hard part is staying free, especially when you lose community and relationships and family over the decision. Hard as it is, it's worth it.
@@nightshade7240 It is tough, but, I think you're right, it's worth it.
Those friends that abandoned me weren't "real" friends, haha, just like deconstructing Christians weren't "real" Christians. lol
You do not want to be thanking this deceiver. He is leading you to hell.
Unfortunately most believers will watch his terrible videos and think: "that's right - we win!" As Carl Sagan said: "You can't convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it's based on a deep-seated need to believe."
Jonathan Swift Quote: “You cannot reason a person out of a position he did not reason himself into in the first place.”
right, all he needs is an answer, not a good one, not the right one, not a fair one. Just something to fill the void and calm the questioning mind.
The whole religious argument that "god let people have slaves in the old testament because it was humans ways" is really absurdly terrible. He's saying that god is either powerless or evil.
Exactly!
God: "Don't eat shrimp, trim your beard, wear mixed fabrics, or pick up sticks on the Sabbath, OR ELSE."
Also God: "Slavery... well, people gonna do people things."
Potentially it could be chalked up to humans having free will, and I think it says that god doesn’t have control of the evil.
But then there countless times where he did have control of the evils and the good for very specific people 😂😂😂
@@wabbajack2how else you gonna have a sick carefree life? By considering all humans to be…. Just like me?????
Am I the only one who's idea of ending slavery, if I were God, is to basically teach humanity how to make all kinds of machinery, so they won't need that much human labor in the first place? I just had to speedrun the tech tree, isn't it?
For someone who decries so many arguments as reddit level atheism, his whole video is reddit level apologetics
Lol yes!
God creating evil so he can be glorified defeating it sounds like an arsonist fireman story. How pathetic.
100% gross
I know! Why is an all-powerful, all-knowing god interesting in glorifying himself? Isn't that admitting that he is desiring "glory" that he doesn't currently possess? And why would overcoming evil give him "glory" anyway? If he is all-powerful, then overcoming evil is less difficult than me taking a breath. I don't consider myself covered in glory every time I breathe. What a stupid, stupid rationalization.
@@joeyangtree1862 I agree 100%. This really is an understated perspective that I wish more believers considered.
When you create a character who is flawless, perfect, all-knowing, all-loving and all-powerful, you quickly realize that they should have no need or desire for anything. There is absolutely nothing to gain.
When you give this same character moments where he exhibits rage, frustration, anger, regret and seeks glory, you've giving this character a compelling and engaging story at the expense of the flawless attributes you had giving it.
You simply cannot have both.
"We did it Patrick, we saved Bikini Bottom!"
@@funkatron101 Religion is just the oldest type of Gary Stu stories
I have seen a couple of other atheist TH-cam channels also covering this video. So I’m going to use a point they brought up in the “religion causes war” argument.
“Religion causes war” isn’t an atheist argument, it’s an anti religion argument
well said, yes im sure this attracted lots of replies.
It’s a stupid argument anyway.
@@citoanteUnless you’re on the receiving end of said war.
Definitely. It has two main problems: sometimes wars are justified, such as to stop a bigger threat or as defense, and even though religions have caused unjust wars, that wouldn't mean the religion wasn't true. It could be used as an argument against leaving this or that religion alone because it doesn't promote good morals.@@citoante
@@Jcs57 it’s just a childish argument.
I like the argument of _"You think we don't know about this problem we have? Well, anyway. That's solved. Next!"_ because it pretty much wraps up his politics as well, I'm sure.
Lol
I checked the description of his channel, it says
I am a Presbyterian Minecraft TH-camr, part of the PCUSA, (Presbyterian Church USA) but I completely oppose the theological liberalism and progressivism that has hijacked it. I have made it my mission to restore it. My theology is Reformed/Calvinist, but I am very ecumenical and open to learning from other Christian traditions.
I am not a Pastor, nor do I have a seminary degree. I am a regular gen Z (zoomer) who was raised in a very secular progressive culture. I was once a leftist, but came to know Christ as a teenager which alienated me from my community. I've dedicated all my life since then to learning the things of God and finding creative ways to share what I know with others.
@@peter-yl2pq As someone with an actual ordination certificate I, .... actually I didn't have a point there beyond pointing out he doesn't and I do.
The "which alienated me from my community" is the exact type of fantasy my church told us as kids, "All those people out there worship Satan and hate Jesus!" meanwhile... they're also Christians.
Imagine a loving God that doesn't even have the manners nor courtesy to tell you why he won't answer your prayers.
As I have heard it explained, god answers yes, no, or maybe (just wait and see). What I find amazing is that any claim god ever answered a prayer is indistinguishable from god not answering a prayer.
Imagine if I told you I love you and then never showed up, never proved others wrong when they claimed you didn't actually have a significant other, then when you got frustrated and started to doubt my sincerity, I texted you to tell you that if you didn't remain faithful, I'd torture you...
Textbook abusive relationship.
he does... Read the bible and you will know. Not even as a Christian point of view, but from someone who does ACTUAL research, and if you come to me and say there aren't any. I'll debunk you to kingdom come.
@tulpas93 What religion is that? It seems to me you haven't met a real, Jesus loving Christian.
@matthewsmith2578 You just moved the goalposts - or perhaps you didn't notice that my comment had absolutely nothing to do with worshipers.
I was calling out the alleged deity. Any deity.
FYI, I've met religious people of almost every faith on the planet, from loving and open to hate-filled and narrow-minded, but never once has one provided any worthwhile evidence of the existence of their deity or deities.
I drew myself as a "Chad" and not you, therefore I win.
That's honestly the strongest argument of them all XD
lol!
I really, really hate wojak memes.
I mean, they can be fun sometimes, but the way some people use them to invalidate other people's views is what makes me hate Wojaks.
@alessa_gillespie
It's actually really disheartening how people on the fence get swayed by things like that. It's like people figured out how easily manipulated our caveman brains really are, and that all it takes to win an argument is making silly memes.
I think those types of videos actually backfire. His audience is probably primarily Christian, many of whom haven't read the bible in its entirety, and have never even considered many of these arguments. It's the proverbial opening of Pandora's Box. It can't be shut again, and this allows many little doubts to creep in.
thats an interesting way to see it. Very possible for many. My fear is that so many Christians who have thought these things themselves just need a Christian, any Christian, to say nuh, uh, and they can dismiss it. This happened to me for a long time.
Ya, it’s the Christian cult way…. They don’t read the Bible and only listen to their professional liars every Sunday.
@@MindShift-Brandon True. Maybe it's just hopeful thinking on my part. But I think that those on the fence might be tempted to take more of a look of what's on the other side. And videos like yours might be the first place they look. Keep up the good work!
I think it IS backfiring to a point, he's only got a few percent of likes in relation to total views. Who knows how many downvotes since TH-cam hides them now. I hope he's opening eyes to potential issues with the faith. Planting those little seeds of doubt has to start somewhere, what better place than a christian channel.
@@MindShift-Brandon I would lean toward agreeing with you, but I would add that I think there could also be a section of christians like I was - under educated and under practiced in the skill of critical thinking. So first of all they are hungry and eager for their doubts to be assuaged, and then once they hear any rebuttal to an atheist argument, they accept it without being equipped to analyze it for credibility.
"Atheist are starting wars again over who doesn't have a God! Wait a minute, that never happens.." Ricky Garvas
they fought against Christians and religious people in the French Commune, Spanish Civil War, and the French and Russian Revolutions, and there were "state atheist" crusades under Marxist regimes in the 20th Century. So I don't see what Ricky Gervais is getting at.
I want to mention that Hitler wasn't even an atheist, he was a catholic and he even wrote about it in Mein Kampf.
He was also a Creationist.
@@Tumbledweeb if he was Catholic, he'd be a creationist by definition
@@pythondrink Not true. There are Catholics who do accept evolution.
@@Tumbledweeb now I wonder what definition you're using. When I call someone a creationist, I mean that they believe in a creator deity who brought things into existing. And someone could believe this and still accept evolution.
@@pythondrink Ah! Gotcha! Thanks for clarifying.
It's painful to listen to Redeemed Zoomer. I used to be just like him. I used to research all of the "evidence" that apologists said backed up my beliefs. It took me way too long to start letting the evidence guide my conclusions. After years of self-delusion, I began listening to debates and call-in shows. It rapidly became clear that a lot, but not all, of the apologists I respected were either grifters or trying to reinforce their own self-delusions by spreading those delusions to others.
It's frustrating that self-deception is built into Christianity. I was taught that the devil would whisper doubts in my ear, and that I had to overcome those lies and build up my faith by immersing myself in the bible and surrounding myself with believers. It turned my own logic into an enemy that I had to defeat. No wonder so many modern Christians have such a loose grip on reality.
Well typed! Glad you were able to see it for it is & walk away, instead of doubling down.
so well said. I was right there with you.
"It turned my own logic into an enemy that I had to defeat."
As my grandma used to say there are 2 types of ignorance - organic and self imposed.
Seriously!! My experience
I hate that near death experience is used so frequently as evidence that it has its own acronym lol
right?!
Here is the copy and pasted transcript of my comment:
This video is not as deeply insightful as it initially seems. Firstly, the claim that no clear contradictions exist in the biblically canonical gospels is downright false. For example, take a gander at Matthew 28:10 and Mark 16:7, as well as Luke 24:49. They respectively read as follws:
a) "Then said Jesus unto them, Be not afraid: go tell my brethren that they go into Galilee, and there shall they see me".
b) "But go your way, tell his disciples and Peter that he goeth before you into Galilee: there shall ye see him, as he said unto you".
c) "He told them to tarry in Jerusalem.
And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high". (tarry is an old English verb for stay, as in stay in a certain place).
While Matthew and Mark record the same command being given to the disciples, albeit with only the former mentioning Peter's name in said command, Luke records a blatantly, diametrically opposing command being given to the men on the same matter.
Secondly, did anyone else note the fact that The Infographics Shows commits a sly slip of their hand when they state at 8:25-8:43 that John is deemed to be far, far from a purely historical document, even among Christianly scolars, then proceed to use it as historical source for biographical information on Jesus' crucifixion at 13:40-13:51 without mentioning why that exact detail about water exiting Jesus' abused body is more reliable than any other detail in the book? The mere fact that the oozing of H2O, rather than the crimson liquid, is possible, according to modern medical science, after enduring such torment doesn't mean that it actually occurred considering that victims of crucifixion were likely not always stabbed after dying. Being posthumously stabbed was not a gurantee for the deceased as part of Roman law in the same way that getting nailed to a cross was always part of the execution.
These errors only crust the tip of the figurative iceburg, but you'll have to visit my top source for more information:
th-cam.com/video/z2LLj0HiYyY/w-d-xo.htmlsi=APFXli5dYIvYRTDP
skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/tarry.html
dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/tarry
@@MindShift-Brandon
Here is a copy and pasted transcript of my comment:
This video is not as deeply insightful as it initially seems. Firstly, the claim that no clear contradictions exist in the biblically canonical gospels is downright false. For example, take a gander at Matthew 28:10 and Mark 16:7, as well as Luke 24:49. They respectively read as follws:
a) "Then said Jesus unto them, Be not afraid: go tell my brethren that they go into Galilee, and there shall they see me".
b) "But go your way, tell his disciples and Peter that he goeth before you into Galilee: there shall ye see him, as he said unto you".
c) "He told them to tarry in Jerusalem.
And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high". (tarry is an old English verb for stay, as in stay in a certain place).
While Matthew and Mark record the same command being given to the disciples, albeit with only the former mentioning John's name in said command, Luke records a blatantly, diametrically opposing command being given to the men on the same matter.
Secondly, did anyone else note the fact that The Infographics Shows commits a sly slip of their hand when they state at 8:25-8:43 that John is deemed to be far, far from a purely historical document, even among Christianly scolars, then proceed to use it as historical source for biographical information on Jesus' crucifixion at 13:40-13:51 without mentioning why that exact detail about water exiting Jesus' abused body is more reliable than any other detail in the book? The mere fact that the oozing of H2O, rather than the crimson liquid, is possible, according to modern medical science, after enduring such torment doesn't mean that it actually occurred considering that victims of crucifixion were likely not always stabbed after dying. Being posthumously stabbed was not a gurantee for the deceased as part of Roman law in the same way that getting nailed to a cross was always part of the execution.
These errors only crust the tip of the figurative iceburg, but you'll have to visit my top source for more information:
th-cam.com/video/z2LLj0HiYyY/w-d-xo.htmlsi=APFXli5dYIvYRTDP
skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/tarry.html
dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/tarry
@@user-kv2xy8rf3g hey man just wanted to thank you for sharing your response. Very well put together
@acebailey2478 Thank you tremendously for taking time out of your night to digest my content 😄
If you desire to expand and saturate your mind regarding true crime, then proceed to digest this reiteration of what is contentiously the most wretched, unimaginably horrendous, albeit profoundly memoriable execution in Western history from an ethical standpoint:
Eight five years, one month, and three days ago, Joesph "Joe" Arridy, a man with an IQ of 46, embarked on the last lengthy walk of his life. Eighteen months earlier, he had been sentenced to death for a crime involving the demise of a 15-year-old girl, Dorothy Drain, along with the near death of her sister, 12-year-old Barbara. During his residence at a home for special needs individuals, psychologists determined that had the mind of a first grade elementary school student; he was utterly incapable of reading more than 1 sentence of articulation at any time.
Joe was unparalleled in his ignorance when it come his own mortality,as well as other morbidly tantalizing realities, such as pedophilia and homocide; these were indubitably the crimes which he was accused for committing. In fact, prison employees reported that Joe was sanguinely smiling in a sanguinely juvenile manner as he was escorted to his impending doom. Prior to entering the gas chamber, Joe passively, emotionlessly stated the most egregiously tearjerking final words from any prisoner: "No, no, I [he was referring to himself in the thrid person] won't die". He was unpurposefully proclaiming his innocence until minutes prior to his date with the grim reaper. I heard on another Reddit video that your life can literally and truthfully flash before your eyes, and do so a theoretically infinite amount of times because of how your brain remains persistent and distorts time after the rest of your physical body seemingly appears deceased. The mental portrait this paints in my head is terryifing. Picture reliving the most relevant clunks of your life, including the moments before your demise, on an endless loop. Despite the fact that Joe, in all likelihood, failed to apprehend what injustice he had fallen upon him, I still shiver to contemplate the concept that this could have been his nightmare embodied in reality.
Here are my preferred sources:
Joe Arridy - The Happiest Man on Death Row - Histographics (His name is mildly distorted in the title of this movie, but evry thing else about the video alighns with my other sources).
"The Happiness Prisoner on Death Row" - The Truly Heartbreaking Story of Joe Arridy - Danielle Dirsky
True Crime Documentary: Joe Arridy: (The Happiness Man on Death Row) - Serial Killer Documentaries
Watching Redeemed Zoomer's video left me with a lot more questions than answers, thank you for actually speaking on what I was thinking and giving me the answers I needed.
Glad to be useful!
Lost it at, "triumph over evil is a greater good than evil just never existing."😮
Yes its horrendous!
@@MindShift-Brandon theres something to be said about the nature of possibility making both evil and good necessary even tho im not a christian.
Not the first time I heard this argument but that just convinces me that if God were real I'd be siding with Lucifer against them bc that mf sure had to be stopped
And I lost it after seeing your comment
@@gamma4524 possibility is immaterial. The claim is that, fundamentally, having evil to triumph over is preferable to a lack of evil. It's purely normative.
"It's better to have cancer exist for to find a cure than for cancer to have never existed."
The apologist set up a whole lot of strawmen hoping to knock them down and he failed. Mostly because he thought he could debunk these in 9 minutes.
The contradictions argument alone would take MULTIPLE lengthy videos to dispute.
Yes, the 9 min and big title got him the views he wanted, but showed his obvious lack of care for the truth or really understanding/tackling these ideas.
@@MindShift-Brandon Have you addressed the Book of Enoch in any videos? I don't know a lot about it, but it seems to be very problematic given that it is quoted in the NT, is found in the Dead Sea Scrolls, but the church determined that the Book of Enoch could not have survived the flood, is not "divinely inspired" and thus was omitted.
To me that seems like a major problem.
Huh? Even if he has 1 BILLION minutes or HOURS he couldn’t debunks anything……cuz it’s all manmade fake nonsense…..I know kinda what you meant tho!
It is. and i have not yet, but will be covering all non canon books after SBS.@@paulcleary8088
@@paulcleary8088Wait 'til you learn about the infancy gospel of thomas, holy shit is it wild. Also yep, the pseudepigrapha is considered heretical by some sects of xtianity. The irony of why they say this (because the authors are questionable) is hilarious because most of the books in the bible have non verified authors.
Brandon, you are a gift to rational and thinking people of the world. Thank you for all the time and energy you put into your channel. You are doing true good in the world.
Thats lovely to hear, thank you!
22:51 Crazy that they put Galileo to fundament their argument without considering the way the church punished him for contraditing the church.
this really shows both your and mind shift's cluelessness and self validating regurgitation of disproven conspiracies.
look into the facts for once.
Galileo believed in God and as far as I know Zommer is an Protestant, furthering his point. The Point he uses here is not the popular „Religion stops Science“ but Religion and Science are connected like philosophy and science, So it’s not „ironic“ as he contradicted the Church because the fact he believed in God despite not believing in the Church is the point, similarly to how two scientists ignore each other’s theory because they think it impossible. One will turn out right the, other will be wrong, but this doesn’t mean their conflict was stupid or caused because of „their ethics,background etc“.
This further shows why I dislike religion so much. Religion is supposed to deal with spirituality, not to tamper with other people's lives and science. Science deals with nature and the universe.
@@POLARTTYRTM science is a weird way to spell religion
@@dentelle2190 nice, too bad science doesn't involve "faith" like religion (blindly believing anything without any evidence doesn't matter how absurd or how against all odds it is) or "believing" something.
Science literally means knowledge, not belief, religion is a belief. It doesn't matter if you dislike science or don't believe in it, because science deals with FACTS of what we know (gravity, physics, medicine, chemistry, computer science, engineering) if it was a belief like religion, if you didn't believe in it, it simply wouldn't work. Religion didn't build computers, phones or the internet, by the way. Your problem if you don't believe in it, because it just works and we have this world thanks to it because it is a fact. A phone exists and works despite you believing in it or not, that's science, we don't believe in science, we KNOW it.
I don't see how "religion caused only 7% of wars" is good argument for religion. That's 7% of wars that could be avoided
Ngl but that's like saying "I only helped in 7% of the murder" and thinking you can't be charged for that
I have a feeling that he applies different standards to whether religion causes wars involving Muslims versus wars involving Christians.
I used to be like Redeemed Zoomer. I was over confident in my religious belief and what I thought were strong arguments for God and I too was arrogant about it. I thought Atheists were just reality deniers who didn't want to submit to God's authority and will. When I got older I opened my mind to the possibility that I was wrong and began looking up rebuttals to the popular arguments I held on to. I found that they weren't nearly as strong as I thought. When I actually listened and understood why skeptics and Atheists didn't buy into them I found skeptics to be very reasonable. Eventually after 18 years I deconverted from Christianity and became an Agnostic Atheist. I still am to this day. I hope Redeemed Zoomer will have the courage and humility to do the same one day.
Bravo! It is hard work to move away from that position, and it gives home if you and I can, that anyone can!
Is there any other way to be goddy than the arrogant way? 😅
People who claim to have a personal relationship with the “ *Creator of the universe* ” - a supernatural being who takes time out of “his” busy day to help them find a sharpie of a particular shade of blue, win a game of footy, or to find a parkingspot, while at the same time ignoring all the prayers from orphaned and hungry children, parents of children dying in paediatric cancer, or children being molested by his own preachers - are the pinnacle performing paragons of world championship level arrogance.
He truly is SO arrogant and fails to see it.
Oh you became a r*tard
Congratulations, now you have... nothing....
I think the primary atheist argument, from my perspective at least, is that there isn't any good evidence of a God. He's mostly taking on arguments against his particular religion.
yes, and even most of those are subarguments that are just a small part of a larger case.
No evidence of God I think that's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard
Have you ever walked outside and looked around?
@@onejohn2.26. If your god is real, why does it let your church leaders molest kids so much? Too busy making animals that breath from the same hole they eat food with?
@@onejohn2.26. What you interpret as evidence for God I interpret as evidence for Loki. Now, how do we go about determining whose interpretation is correct or whether both of us are wrong?
@@onejohn2.26.You'll notice they said "good evidence" NOT "no evidence." 2nd "Just look at trees" is pretty much universally acknowledged as THE WORST "argument/evidence" (it's really neither) by those who engage in theological and philosophical discussions since it's just a statement of ignorance and credulity. Lastly EVEN if it were a valid and sound argument (and again it's not an argument or evidence so those terms don't apply), it doesn't get you any further than weak deism or imply that some "god" thing currently exists, let alone imply any specific god traits.
I found out my oncologist gave me cancer so he could cure it. How great he is!
The thing about wars is that usually the powerful people at the top of society are fighting over resources or land or something. In order to garner popular support, they add a religious veneer: "Let's go slay the unfaithful and barbaric outsiders, and liberate their land for our god!" So it's true that most wars are not really about religion, but religion is necessary to make people go to war with their neighbors.
I feel pity for Redeemed Zoomer. The guy was born into a period that has the greatest access to information the world has ever seen and he is repeating the same arguments that apologists have been saying forever. His parents should be ashamed of themselves, because he deserves better.
indeed, it's sad to see someone with such access and who has obviously heard these arguments be so close to them.
I’ve watched a few of his earlier videos, since I watch some apologetic material to check my biases, and one of them caught my eye. It went over his upbringing and why he’s a Christian. I thought it’d be interesting to see what pushes a young person to devote their young adult years to a channel like this, so I gave it a watch.
Many Christians have a deep passion for their beliefs, so I was expecting that, even though his tone was typically fairly confrontational. After watching, however, I concluded that he’s just a bitter person. In his own words, he was raised in New York in a “woke” community where everyone at school was a communist by default. When he was little, he was an outspoken leftist, though his parents were Christians who took him to a Presbyterian church. As he grew up, he was mentored by someone in the church and switched from an atheist commie to a conservative Christian full swing. When he did that, he lost a ton of friends and became a loner in high school. I think he’s bitter towards his former community and that is what drives him to make the kind of content he does.
@ballshaver773 ....You think everyone in a new York school were communists? Or that's what he said?
@@ballshaver773 Damn, sounds dark.
@@ballshaver773Thank you Ballshaver773, I had a feeling this came from an upset standpoint rather than trying to convince the other side. All stemming from the Wojack he uses in the video.
I watched this video my self out of curiosity. Left a comment talking about his 3rd argument, the one about location being a reliable indicator for beliefs, and said pretty much the same thing you did.
I am baffled how such bad arguments are still around.
Absolutely. If Christianity were true we would see a relatively even distribution across geographic locations.
@@MindShift-Brandon What I find a little more frustrating is when the religious put forward an argument that is so easily debunked and has been for a while. Yet they put it forward as though it's still good. Can't tell you how many times I've seen the kalam cosmological argument thrown out and I say the same thing every time I see it. Although it is pretty annoying when they dismiss the Euthyphro dilemma saying "it's not a true dilemma" and that "the answer is God is good", to which the atheist asks "so is God good because he's God or because he decided he wants to be good"? And I don't think I've ever seen them address that follow up question.
It completely went over his head that his response strengthens the premise, rather than debunks it. He thinks if he says "you too, nyah-nyah" somehow that answers the question.
If there were gods who not only intervened in the world but also wanted people to know about them, we wouldn't see knowedge about these gods spreading gradually outwards from where they were made. For example, various mathematical concepts have been discovered independently many times by in different places. If conquistadors sailed across the seas and found Muslims in America with just the same Qur'an and practices as Muslims in the Old World but no other evidence of contact with Old World Muslims, that'd be pretty hefty evidence for Islam, maybe not unbeatable, but pretty good.
Redeemed Zoomer apparently took his style from Ben Shapiro. When saying something accurate, talk fast. When saying something that is BS, talk faster.
He did mention watching Ben Shapiro when he was talking about his theology journey, so here’s that
that kid keeps talking in that snotty, sarcastic tone every single second, his voice is going to get permanently stuck like that
Too late, it is he normal voice.
Simply another great, articulate, and very well reasoned rebuttal to RZ.
Such a pleasure to listen to. Wonderful that you are using your "powers" for such good !!
Recommending you to many others !!! Hope this channel keeps growing !!!
So kind, thank you dearly!
The points around 18min resonated very deeply with me. The presupposition that morals can only come from god is insulting to me. Human beings have cooperated and been compassionate/empathetic as a species, it's literally how we have survived so well, and arguably hardcoded into our DNA. It makes us less beautiful than we are, to say our morality is external, I think one of the most beautiful things about humanity is that we have created these complex moral frameworks to adhere to, possibly simply rooted in the beneficial nature of cooperation and altruism. I think even more so because we don't need any god to achieve it. Really great video so far!
Appreciate that; glad it landed with you!
It also causes greater harm. If morality isn't based on what is beneficial to people, but comes from a god, then that means whatever the god wants is good no matter how much suffering, pain, and deprivation of happiness it causes.
It's bizarre how they straddle both sides of the spectrum. To them, humans are simultaneously the lowest scum who can only think and do evil if not for God's grace, but also don't you dare compare us to some dirty ape, we're so much better than that!
@@UltraVioletKnight No, becaue the will of God is what will kep us from harm and death. If God tells man to do something and man decides to do anything else other than God's will, while thinking he will save himself, he will actually harm himself and others.
@@juanranger4214 Must I remind you that 99,99% of human history has been non-Christian?
The second he depicted the atheist as smug wojak he won. No question
I’ve seen this guy roasted so hard on so many channels and I’m totally loving it. Great work here too.
I just wanted to leave a message thanking you. Between your channel, Alex Oconner, and GeneticallyModifiedSkeptic, I've finally been able to completely step away from that nagging guilt of no longer being christian. I was raised Christian and was an active member of my youth group, but I have always loved science and deeper existential discussion. I always brushed up against other Christians in my circles for this reason, and when I turned 17, I started distancing myself from my church because I didn't like their teachings and I didn’t feel like I had faith. I'm now 24, and I've taken to just living my life, but I always had a feeling that i was just ignoring God when i should've tried harder. As of the last few months of following these channels, I finally feel free to disregard the bible. I dont *want* to be Christian anymore. It isnt a failing, its my common sense telling me what I've always known.
Thank you for that, the world makes more sense when you're not trying to cram dinosaurs into 6 days, or insist the bible is both divinely inspired, but you should only read certain versions of it because the others are wrong.
Edit: For those who think that meaning ends when you aren't worshipping Yahweh and Christ, this is not true. If your bar for meaning is "prescribed by the omnipotent", then yeah, you won't have that, but it's not needed. I believe everyone is connected to everything, and do my best to be loving and caring, and spread joy and kindness as much as I can. Making the best out of the time we have is the most meaningful purpose I have ever felt, much better than being a cog in some divine machine that seemed like it didn't care much whether I lived by God or burnt in hell.
Just being mentioned with the two men who assisted me years ago in my own deconversion is an honor. Thank you. I am so glad to be able to be helpful.
I wish you the best.
@@MindShift-BrandonFor what it’s worth you three have also played a massive role in my deconversion this past summer and even though I don’t have anyone outside of my Christian circles yet these channels have kept me from completely losing it. So thank you
Are you now going to embrace that your life is meaningless?
@Justas399 are you going to continue being assanine all over youtube?
It's fair if religion gives your life meaning, but it didn't for me. If you actually were engaging with any of the philosophy and atheism channels on the platform, you would know atheim and agnosticism (which is what I am) does not equate to nihilism, which I agree would be a terrible headspace to live with. In fact, there are people who identify as Nihilistic Theists, Christians included.
Go learn with an open mind rather than regurgitate shallow teachings to people who are sick of hearing fallacious statements.
As a classicist, he lost me at "the Church invented modern science." Absolutely not.
Scientific concepts were mainly invented by Muslims and then got imported into Europe thanks to the Crusades.
For nearly 2 thousand years, the Christian Church was the only game in town; and you could be punished, up to & including death, for not towing its line on its understanding of Nature. Newton, one of the greatest scientific minds in Western civilization, believed in a God who created & ordered the Universe (there were no secular explanations at that time) but didn't believe in the Trinity or that Jesus was God. He kept his beliefs quiet because, in England at that time, he could have been kicked out of university, denied the jobs he held, and been imprisoned for his heresy.
Richard Carrier has great books on science & technology in ancient Rome. He argues that the common idea that Romans were great practical builders but not good at theoretical & applied science is not true.
Didn’t invent science but definitely contributed to it.
@@briceidycierramarrujosmith4563The type of science they liked. Not the type that went contrary to their religion - which stunted humanity’s progress
Technically modern science we celebrate in the west came from Christian territories. The Concept of a rational unvierse is foundational to modern science, but to say the church invented science is certainly untrue.
The lack of empathy and general diplomacy from apologists is something I never noticed as a believer. It’s rather shocking to think a spirit-led soldier of the word would sound this condescending. Imagine all the undecideds he just pushed over the fence into atheism. Great job as usual Brandon! ♥️
Thank you for this!
It’s crazy to look back at when I was a christian and how much I lacked in the empathy department, because I cared way more about what god would want, than I did about how I treated the people around me
To be fair, Christian’s believe we have the cure for death, it’s hard to feel empathy for someone who doesn’t take it
@@DevareayWilliamsJesus said the greatest commandment is to treat others as you would yourself
@@TheGymBroSkii Yes, I wish more Christians would take that line seriously.
Interesting to note, Redeemed Zoomer also edited Hitler's wikipedia article to completely fit his point. While the article does say something along the lines of criticising Christianity towards the later parts of his rule, it also mentions that he criticised Atheism and still believed in God in some form
Well that is not completely false right? In mein kampf, hitlers book, he states a lot of praise for the christian god. Also he was never excommunicadot from the catholic church and he abolished the Freidenker group of atheists under his rule
That's the beauty of being a theist, you can answer any questions about anything in the universe, without having to think about it
"Goddidit!"
@@RichWoods23 excellent reflex
@@halcyonzenith4411 My doctor says my knees should last about another twenty years.
@@RichWoods23yeah, my niece also has nice reflexes, she's part of her school's soft ball team. 😅
Same can be said for atheists. Figure it out. Which came first: theism or atheism? Now say what you said again.
Some of the things he says are so idiotic it almost hurts, "evil is just a lack of good" being a good example.
And yes, to those christians who still pretend the bible does not support slavery, *read your bible*
It was like a parody. i actually checked to make sure this wasnt some ironic atheist content.
Evil being a lack of good is a core element of christianity. It’s also one of the dumbest ideas to ever come out of ancient greek philosophy. It’s an obvious cope to deal with a world full of suffering.
There's definitely evil that's just a lack of good, but there's also evil that just exists in its own right. Pain isn't a mere lack of a good feeling, for one. The original video gave the example of cold being a lack of heat, but sometimes, things can be too hot, which is too much of something.
I always find it mind-boggling that for the word evil, they act like it is anything more than a descriptor term. Like it is somehow an entity. Which is fucking silly.
Yeah it is stupid, if that's your definition of good then screw what's good I'm going to focous on the moral system I subscribe too
God creating humanity so he can glorify himself by defeating evil: “Some of you are going to die, but that’s a sacrifice I’m willing to make.”
God is like someone who steals a valuable object to collect the reward for “finding” it.
In response to the defense of biblical slavery that suggests that God had to make allowances and meet people where they were. Can you imagine how difficult a sell it would have been to get an entire people group who had never been exposed to the concept of circumcision to begin the practice? Yet somehow someone managed that.
Love that
enforcing infant genital mutilation was more important than abolishing slavery to this god
Actually it was Kellogg, you know the tony the tiger guy. He owned a mental hospital and convinced people that circumcision would prevent both boys and girls from masterbating. Before this, it was actually pretty rare in the us. In fact, its still pretty rare in Europe because he didnt have influencein Europe. The rich americans loved the idea though, well for the boys anyway. Thank god it didnt take off for the girls because that sicko was using acid to birn the clit off.
@@UltraVioletKnight Europeans don't circumcise. The only reason Americans circumcise is because of 19th century perfectionist cults.
p.s. Hitler was a Catholic, not an atheist.
He did deconvert before he became leader of Germany. Hitler's exact religious/spiritual beliefs are quite hard to pin down. He definitely didn't like Christianity in private, though he paid lip service to it in his outside speeches. However, the Nazi party overall saw religion as necessary, often denouncing "godless communism". Many of the high-ranking Nazis who weren't religious were "god-believers", basically deists. Nazis even made their own brand of Christianity in which Jesus was an anti-Jewish Aryan. Hitler himself seems to've been more of a pantheist or deist, depending on how reliable you see records of his "table talks", transcriptions of his weird ramblings at dinner time.
If you want to talk about atheistic dictators, you've got plenty of godless commies to choose from.
...aaaah, but there are no secular, atheist, humanist tyrants or dictators.
He didn't remain Catholic for long at all. But he was something of a German Christian. He believed in a sort of weird non-personal god.
Prove these dictators were commies.
17:41 My ex was Norwegian, one of those very secular countries he mentions. I am sure prosperity had something to do with it, but he was an atheist, for the most part, because he had been exposed to no Christianity as an actual religion. Until the age of 17, when he met me, he had never even met a single person who had ever believed in a god, never mind an actual active believer.
He could not even understand the concept of god, or how anyone could hold belief in such an entity.
Mind you, his was not “the” Norwegian experience. It was his, though, and he would find this Zoomer completely incomprehensible.
Are you still religious?
Never exposed to any religion until 17! Lucky guy!
@@Johnmhatheist No, nor was I then.
@@professorgremlin1425 He did not actually think adults in the modern world even believed in god. Maybe in some less developed parts of the world, but surely not in Europe.
He thought everyone was just going along for the tradition but did not actually believe.
This actually caused a lot of strain between us. I was already an atheist but religion harmed me greatly and I was very vocal in speaking against it. He could not understand this.
That religion can, and does, cause trauma was just unthinkable to him. In this regard, I’m sure it wasn’t just his background. Others like him are very aware, he just both lacked the imagination or the interest to at all look into it.
Most of these aren't even arguments against the existence of god, but rebukes of religion or similar. I wouldn't call these all "atheist arguments". Good job responding
I grew up on atheist channels during the New Atheism era, nice to see respectable atheist channels such as this prop up in recent years. Well produced, well argued.
Thats very encouraging. Thank you!
I’ve noticed people are talking about this era. How do you characterize it? I’ve had similar comments about my videos, except I started in 2012 (but such comments are recent).
@@MsLemon42 I think the main difference was that the old "new atheism" was direct and no-nosense.
This 'era' is more about being compassionated for the struggling person (something apologists have not been able to grasp)
One of the things that drives me crazy about the "God allows evil because of free will" argument is that some acts of evil are violations of others' free will. Rape, Murder, and Slavery are all violations of free will by definition, so why does God allow them? Anyway, it's wonderful to have you back, Brandon.
wonderful point and thank you much!
Thats literally what i said in the comment section of a religious video.
Free wil, they said.
Dude, the bad guy has freewill?
What about the victim?
No freewill?
So god prioritizes the bad guy's freewill, but screw the victim's freewill...
That god, even if real, doesnt deserve worship.
........... my comment got deleted...😅
Religious people are cowards by nature.
Well it's obvious... God cares much more for the free will of the rapist or murderer than the free will of the victim. He just sits back and watches, he could intervene at no risk and no effort but prefers to just watch. But he is all loving... honest.
Also imagine if you were arrested for attempted murder and told the judge they have to let you go because preventing you committing the murder is restricting your free will which is worse than allowing the murder. People just don't think free will is that valuable unless they're responding to atheists. Also if having free will is so demanding that god stopping from someone from succeeding in a murder takes away their free will I can't see how people possibly have free will because we are constantly having our choices influenced and constrained by things in greater amounts than what god would need to do to prevent a lot of evils
I mean, one could argue that a god who sends plagues and famines, who destroys the common language to create division, and runs an extortion racket on our souls is pretty evil too.
There is no need to answer his 40 arguments. This pastor needs to present his case for his God (after defining it and its attributes and provide convincing evidence)
In a perfect world. But now hundreds of thousands of Christians are hearing his bad claims and taking them as good arguments. As long as this nonsense is circulating, hopefully people shutting it down will too.
He’s not a pastor
I do not know why anyone would use the Bible to debunk atheist arguments. The whole point is about discussing god's existence. You can not use a book that says that god exist to proove that he exists, it's just a vicious circle. It would be like arguing that an apple exists, then using a book that precisely says that apples exist.
Need enough awareness to know you're using the right tool for the job, after all.
26:15 Imagine a dad, has an eight year son with a broken arm, and people say "hey aren't you going to take him to the hospital?" and the dad goes, "ah don't worry, I will fix it, evantually... in 50 years, probably."
As to the evil being the lack of good.... no, that has to be the worst argument ever. Apathy is the lack of good, evil is an active thing, not the lack of anything. You do not say that someone that doesn't do charity is evil, despite it being a lack of good... but you would say that someone that steals from charities is evil. Because evil and good are defined by actions and are active things, not lack of the other.
"Science doesn't actually disprove God because many early scientists were Christian"
Charles Darwin: I'm about to destroy this man's whole career
lol
Also it's like that response of "weird how the people that invented weightlifting weren't jacked huh?" ignoring that it was because of weightlifting that people started becoming jacked
darwin didnt teach beginning of life, and news flash, even if evolution is true, that doesnt change anything about whether god is real or not.
@@swamprat22 yes but it does open to more questions, because if evolution was real then that means the garden of eden is false and that humanity was not created exactly the way it was
guys he made himself the chad wojak, its over for us gg
Lol
Theists say this all the time, that God exists outside the natural world...while simultaneously claiming that it interacts with this world. You cannot have it both ways. If it interacts, we'd be able to see and measure that interaction.
At this point if you portray yourself as a “chad” meme you shouldn’t be taken seriously
20:55 What I appreciate most about your channel and work is the way that you don't mock believers. As a believer in the midst of deconstruction, this channel and it's content has caused me to really study my Bible and ask some very difficult questions about my faith. I appreciate the general respectful tone. It makes me question my indoctrination with curiosity and compassion.
thats so nice to hear. I am not perfect at this, but I do strive to be a safer place, all things considered, for believers who are doubting. Thank you for letting me know. believers
Def much better to watch than matt dillahunty for example, watching that man speak is pure oral porn
He immediately launches into trying to reverse the situation. It's the Church that keeps offering the same old tired arguments we've heard thousands of times, where all we're thinking is: "This again .. ?" And to ALL of them: "You're making an argument for A GOD, you need to make an argument for YOUR God or they're all useless to you."
I love it when Apologists try to play Uno Reverse and aren't good at it.
The number of arguments he claims to debunk in such a short amount of time (roughly 4 per minute) is more than enough to see how smart he thinks he is, before watching it.
For sure.
Good point.
Some of the arguments he used are among the most complex philosophical and theological ideas of all time. Many of the greatest human minds have been trying to resolve them for centuries.
Yet redeemed zoomer can settle them all in nine minutes.
He could have cut at least half, maybe even 2/3 of the objections, because they aren't objections to Christianity's truth, merely to the morality of its teachings.
@@ZephLodwick He could have, but then he wouldn't have an impressive-looking number of arguments to "debunk"
Thanks for answering the "crazies" again. You do a masterful job.
Appreciate that!
I feel like you didn't think this would turn out to be a 47 minute video, but I am so glad it is 😂 I love take down Tuesdays!
ha, i just couldnt help myself on a few of these!
@@MindShift-Brandon I totally understand there. I am the worst at taking something small and really going in on it 😂
Trusting the accuracy an NDE is like saying it's easier to see when your flashlight is flickering.
Brandon, I simply love how your logical mind works, you can seriously shred these topics / debates / arguments. Bravo man, 👍👍👍, well done.
Thanks so much! Appreciate you being here.
Haha, I just rebutted the two first arguments a couple of days ago. So glad you made a video on it. If anyone is interested, this was my response to Zoomer:
The assertion that "Only 7 percent of all wars were due to religion" is misleading for several reasons. Firstly, the cited statistic focuses on conflicts where religion is the PRIMARY cause, neglecting its potential influence in other instances. Out of 1,763 historical conflicts, 121 (6.87%) are identified as having religion as their primary cause, but labeling all other wars as "Secular" oversimplifies their complex mix of factors, where religion often plays a significant role.
Secondly, the complexity of this topic is highlighted by the intricate task of defining religion, war, and other influencing factors. Historians grapple with limited sources, making it precarious to definitively assert causation. Even if we accept the 7 percent figure, the significant impact of religion in a considerable number of conflicts demands careful consideration. It aligns with the perspective of the atheist puppet in the video, supporting the claim that religion causes wars.
P.S. Hitchens argued that religion serves as a catalyst in conflicts, amplifying tensions and fostering division through rigid dogmas and absolute truth claims. His perspective emphasizes the role of religious ideologies in exacerbating hostilities.
On the second argument concerning the perpetration of evil in the name of religion:
The contention positing that "Most murderous people in history were nonreligious" fails to directly address the question at hand but rather redirects the focus specifically to instances of murder and individuals lacking religious affiliations. This response is characterized by an inherent dishonesty, manifesting as a tu quoque fallacy and a non sequitur. Here is my take on the matter.
It remains plausible that individuals identified as nonreligious may have been responsible for a greater number of fatalities than their religious counterparts. The ongoing historical debate surrounding Hitler's religious beliefs underscores the complexity of this issue, contingent upon nuanced definitions and sourced documentation. Conversely, the atheistic convictions of figures such as Stalin, Mao, and Pol Pot are well-established. However, the quantification of evilness becomes a nuanced endeavor. Relying solely on body counts in each regime proves inherently flawed, as these figures are subject to influence by external motivations, actions of others, and infrastructural constraints. Furthermore, the delineation of "murderous" remains a subjective undertaking, with debates among historians concerning the extent of intentionality behind events such as famines orchestrated by Mao and Stalin.
Even in the event of a consensus between the interlocutor and the atheist on pertinent definitions, and a subsequent determination that select malevolent atheists surpassed certain theists in terms of wickedness, this realization fails to refute the overarching assertion that individuals commit malevolent acts in the name of religion.
Should a comparative analysis be pursued between theism and alternative perspectives, the focus ought to be on specific secular worldviews, given that atheism per se merely constitutes a response to a singular question. The disjunction between myself and Stalin, beyond our shared absence of belief in a deity, becomes evident in our differing philosophical stances; he subscribes to communism, while I align with humanism. An intriguing avenue for investigation may involve a comparison between Christianity and humanism, aiming to discern which worldview potentially motivates a greater propensity for malevolence.
ha, right on. thank you!
Not sure how many actually read that long essay 😅
@@johnmonk3381 Haha, I think you're correct. And I even felt I failed to address some aspects properly. It's soooo easy and effortless to create a bad argument, and soooo much hard work to thoroughly destroy it.
@@johnmonk3381 I did.
Good point, and I agree, on the first part that putting "SECULAR" as the opposite of "RELIGION" is way too generlized to begin with, I get that they are technically opposites, but religion melts into most if not all secular matters in one way or more, while secular matters are way broader and doesn't necessarily have anything to do with religion, so using them on opposing sides on a graph is a little like having a list of "Things that fall" and blaming that on "Weight" instead of "Physics", where weight obviously factors in if something falls, but it's because of physics in essence. Same with SECULAR VS RELIGION, Yes, I might be warring over territory, because I need more space for my growing population or usable soil, but it might also be because I need a larger area to build my religious building too so I add a bit of ground, of course that will escalate the conflict even if it isn't the primary reason.
Or, I will claim all the x type of people as my servants because they are lesser than me while I take their land, while not all of the slavery was because of religions a large part was, and the concept of lesser or greater "races" is for a big part also religious in nature, again, not all of them are, but enough conflicts have been made that "They are lesser because my holy scripture says so" that it's a point against them regardless, especially since religion was a huge influence on why slavery wasn't abolished earlier.
and the "Most murderous people in history were nonreligious" argument... it's beyond stupid to me. To me, what the argument proves is that "Atheists can be more efficient at killing" at best, but it doesn't include the extensive list of religious murdering and slandering over centuries of history. Yes, it may be true that some of the most atrocious killers are nonreligious, BUT, there are many many times more victims to religion over history.
One person killing 3 million, is never good, of course not, but would you not agree that hundreds of million people harming and killing more than a single person on average is at the very least equally terrible.
no amount of killing is good, but naming the top 5 or 10 or even 20 is very disingenuous if said top is less than 1% of the total deaths in history. (I am aware that people kill for a lot of reasons that aren't religious too, and that the % between secular and religious murders are impossible to calculate accurately.)
The major cause of harm with religioun isn't just the blatant and over-the-top persecution and willful ignorance, but also the silence at which it can accomplish it.
Redeemed Zoomer is just making so many assertions as facts and quoting the Bible selectively with a poor understanding of church history.
yeah so many issues, thanks for watching.
It's basically an extended gish-gallop, but this is the internet: plenty of people to disagree, point by point, watching a video moment to moment, and picking it apart.
If God exists outside the universe, and we have no way of measuring his effects in the universe, then why would I believe in him?
if the bible can be proven correct then god does exist clearly. he wants to have a relationship with you and doesnt want you to go to hell
@@swamprat22 If.
@@swamprat22what a narcissist, I think I’m pretty cool but making other people have a relationship with me or they get punished, FOREVER is pretty extreme
@@swamprat22*abusive relationship.
@@HungryWardennot sure why you think hes abusive but he loves you and he never abused anyone
Don't know where RZ lives, but there must be a severe nationwide shortage of straw after he's done.
I had a person write to me on TH-cam that I needed to read the whole bible to understand a single passage when I brought up contradictions. My reply to him was to read the whole dictionary in order to understand a single definition. 😂
love it!
@@MindShift-Brandonyou hear the same nonsense from Jordan Peterson fans. It’s bizarre how often, when a source talks absolute nonsense, it’s followers tell you you need to listen _even more,_ as if that will help make the nonsense perfectly understandable. And then they get mad when you point out the rest is _also_ just nonsense. 😂
The fact that there are that many denominations of the region in itself is baffling.
It's so good to have you on our side, a reasonable voice to analyze the absurdity of Christianity.
Appreciate that very much!
The contrast between your calm, respectful, serious and articulate way of stating your arguments versus the childish and arrogant way he presents his statements is just incredible! Not even taking into account how incredibly stupid and/or dishonest his arguments were.
Thanks for the kindness!
"why does god allow evil"
"so he can be glorified when he ends it"
or as a funny little conversation a totally normal people have
"honey, why is the house all muddied? and is that peanut butter on the walls"
"Yeah, I was walking around in my boots all day. Also tried to see how fast you need to throw a peanut butter sandwich to make it stick."
"ok, but why?"
"so you can thank me later when I clean the house"
"But the house was already clean. I just vacuumed the entire house the other day"
"yes, but I want you to thank me when I clean the house"
"so, when are you going to do that"
"..."
"... I'm getting the mop"
While going through hardship can make you a better person, "can" is doing a lot of work in that statement. Sometimes, bad things happen and have no upside. The best cure is prevention. Imagine if a doctor didn't vaccinate a kid so the doctor could take glory in curing the illness later on. Furthermore, the fact that a god or gods couldn't make a being that was the best version of itself without having to suffer for it implies that that god or those gods aren't all-powerful. Is big-G God not the best version of himself because he can't be harmed?
Brandon really should've gone into more detail about the animals. Bringing back everything that was destroyed earlier doesn't completely undo the suffering that untold billions of feeling, thinking creatures had to go through.
Créate the problem, provide the solution.
04:58 God has only been defined outside the natural world recently, even the bible described God walking with some humans and was never described within the bible as being outside the natural world.
indeed! it was only once we had to prove god that he became this mystery.
@@MindShift-Brandon christians change the bibles text a lot throughout history when it suits their narrative.
For instance, direct translations of the original scripture depict god as not being all-knowing (considering people can hide things from him and he is capable of changing his mind on things.) but nowadays ask any christian and they'll claim he is
from the cave to the mountain to the sky to the outer realm 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Professor Plink did a two parter on this where he pointed out that a significant portion of these atheist arguments are actually arguments against Christianity, not for atheism in general.
So his video fails there, before he even gets to making points that are contradicted by later points he makes.
I also love how he acknowledges that being born in certain places determines your faith and then just....slides on by.
And even then, most of the arguments "against" Christianity aren't saying that Christianity is false, they're saying it's immoral, which is completely different.
This video is a prime example of the reason Kent Hovind never finds an atheist willing to debate him on his terms: equal time. It takes much longer to disprove a lie than it does to tell it, which s why your response here is more than five times the length of the one you're debunking.
Ha and that was me being quick
Checkmate atheists! I have depicted you as the Wojack and myself as the Chad! You have already lost!
ah darnit
I like that you brought up tornadoes right after you talked about the gaps in science. From what we know so far about tornadoes is that a very precise set of meteorological conditions must be in place for a tornado to occur. Even when these conditions are present, it doesn't mean that a tornado will occur, it only means that it can occur. Absent these conditions, it won't.
Which raises some real important questions for those who claim that God is in control of everything. That means He knows in advance when and where those conditions will occur. He also knows the strength and path of that tornado, the timing of that tornado and what it will hit. So there is actually nothing random about these storms at all! If a tornado hits a hospital or a school and kills a lot of people, that is because God set into place forces that would steer it to those precise targets. If it misses a stadium full of people, again, it is because it was steered away from those targets. What we don't know in either case--I am talking about from a believer's standpoint--is why one was hit and the other missed. In my hometown there was a tornado in 1980 that destroyed several churches and was on a direct path to hit a bar that was a notorious prostitution hangout when it unexpectedly veered south to hit even more churches! I'd like to see that one explained from a Christian standpoint. The same goes for other natural disasters, but I choose to focus on tornadoes because they are so--from our human standpoint--unpredictable.
thanks for the additional info there.
Evidently, drinkers and philanderers are more pure of heart than church goers! LOL 😂
There was an instance a couple of years ago of a tornado hitting a town in Texas or Oklahoma (you know, one of God's usual Bible Belt targets), where it ripped directly through half a dozen houses and damaged dozens of others (some people were injured, I think, but fortunately no-one was taken by the Lord that day so it was probably just one of His holy shots across the bow). Amidst all this chaos and destruction, someone spotted that a bible had been sucked out of one of the houses and left undamaged on a trashed car's windshield, and naturally that was roundly declared to be a miracle. I'm sure that came as a great comfort to all those newly homeless families.
The expansion of scientific knowledge does present a pretty big problem for gods of natural phenomena. For example, I find the existence of Poseidon or another sea god very unlikely, since we know a lot about the ocean, and there doesn't seem to by any force acting on the ocean that clearly brakes all known laws of physics.
@@ZephLodwick One way of looking at Poseidon is that he is a representation of the known laws of physics as they relate to the ocean. Just made more relatable. I think most ancient cultures understood that the gods were icons-- ways to connect to something bigger-- not people to be worshipped in themselves.
36:12 I think you nailed the biggest problem with the whole video: Redeemed Zoomer isn’t actually addressing _claims_ that atheists make; he’s mistaking counterarguments made against Christian claims for being affirmative statements in their own right, and then providing weak-to-nonexistent arguments against claims that were never made.
Almost every point he claims to address isn’t a positive assertion that requires an independent burden of proof; most are arguments that Christian theology (and in some cases, religion as a whole) has failed to provide the burden of proof to support its own arguments. To “answer” these claims, Redeemed Zoomer needs to either _prove_ his position or _disprove_ the claim; merely asserting that the claim hasn’t been _proven_ is insufficient, because they’re not claims of truth, they’re claims of reasonable doubt.
(Also, a few of the things he asserts are atheist claims, I’ve never heard any atheist make. I _have_ heard Christian theologians make them, however. In particular, the “could God make a rock so big that He couldn’t lift it” doesn’t address any atheist claim I’ve ever encountered, but _is_ a question theologians have wrestled with for centuries. Similarly, the only people I’ve ever heard caring about The Problem of Evil are theologians and philosophers; atheists don’t see a logical/philosophical problem because they don’t believe in an omnipotent omniscient omnibenevolent deity so there’s no contradiction to resolve. I mean, they may care about evil, just not The Problem of Evil™.)
"by definition God is something outside the natural world"
How does he know that? Which method did he use to come to that conclusion?
10:30
Jesus:"My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”
Guard:"I couldn't quite hear you, what did you say?"
Jesus:"Nothing, just talking to myself."
lol!
it was a reference to psalm 22:1
I genuinely feel so passionately about my disbelief of Roman Catholicism in particular that I’ve considered doing a video essay about it. I’ve deconstructed from Christianity altogether, but because I was raised Catholic and was pretty well versed in the doctrine, I just have such a strong feeling about how man-made, manipulative, and also culturally significant it has been in shaping western civilization. I have been saying for YEARS, to anyone that would listen, that Constantine’s conversion was utter BS. It was nothing more than a savvy political move.
I’m Portuguese, my country was built on Catholicism. I’d be very interested in such a video, as a survivor of 15 years of Catholic upbringing.
I have to agree with you. Based on historical facts, Constantine was a power hungry politician and if power meant saying he was a “Christian” so be it. Constantine was kinda like an ancient version of Trump who held his Bible in front of his audience saying he was a “Christian” while at the same failing to properly cite the Bible….it was all phony baloney and showmanship.
@@Nocturnalux "as a survivor of 15 years of Catholic upbringing"
What made it so bad that you have to say you survived it?
@@isaiahsmith6016 I’m not comfortable talking about it here. But suffice it to say, I was taught how little I mattered and how hell awaited on a daily basis, at school.
Nearly got molested by a priest in confession, at the age of 16.
At 7, I had nervous stomachaches and migraines because of Catholic school.
And this is just the cliffnotes.
@@Nocturnalux
"I’m not comfortable talking about it here." - Fair enough. Though I appreciate that you're comfortable sharing at least some of your experiences.
I'm very sorry that you had to go through such traumatic experiences, particularly almost being molested. By a priest no less.
I hope you've been through the worst of it and that things will get better for you as you move forward.
I'm a believer, and I appreciate this video for challenging my beliefs and giving me another point of view. Love how you also handled the discussion with respect, especially at 20:56.
Appreciate the kindness despite our differences. Take care and thanks!
OMG the internal screaming I started hearing in my brain the moment he started talking about slavery, and I realized he was going full denial. 😵
I had gotten so used to your videos featuring the common response we get from professional Christian apologetics, which just change the subject to (part of) the verses on indentured servitude, and/or to the existence of slavery at the time...all delivered in a much more casual tone.
_(I have heard Christians make the same "argument" as he does & in the same way as him, of course...I just wasn't expecting it here for whatever reason.)_
Was incredibly happy to hear you say "I'm losing my mind" right after I actually said that to myself, because I genuinely felt like it! 😅
Ha thanks for shouldering some of that insanity with me.
"People think they came from monkeys... they really need to read their magical book about talking snakes and donkeys -- oh, and firebreathing dragons and a man who created everything from nothing who will burn you forever if you don't think he was born of a virgin and had himself killed as his own son to save you from his father."
It’s degrading to say we came from monkeys. It’s much more dignified to believe we came from dirt and a rib bone.
lol! love this.
The Adventures of Dirt Man and Rib Woman
Why the hell does a perfect being need to be glorified by imperfect beings?!
There is simply no good answer.
Because he was bored, and because he can always have someone to feel superior to.
He doesn't need it, He wants it. If he created everything we know, He deserves the glory for that. We glorify humans all the time for their ingenuity. Why would He be any different. I think a being saying hey I need you to understand that I am the reason you exist, and don't be fooled by others making that claim, give me that glory, give me the just dues so that you aren't misled, isn't unreasonable. Again, we do it all the time towards other humans, that achieved far far far less.
It seems to be it's the right thing to do to give credit where credit is due. I mean you're welcome to disagree with that, but if you do disagree, remember that when you start to praise someone for an accomplishment that means nothing in comparison to creation.
@davemcneal3193Yep. Same here. Once in high school that sealed it. I saw the exact same dynamics in my mean girl cliques, you know, without all the genocide and animal sacrifices. Stoning, though. If we could just have agreed on who would drive 😂 Seriously, though. I do not believe God exists, BUT even if he does? I want know part of him or his ugly, cruel, vicious dogma.
Dude completely lied about Hitler being an atheist. Not only was he baptized a Catholic, but he said he fought the Jews on the orders of Almighty God in Mein Kampf.
Lots of people with an agenda ignore things hitler did, like meth
I thought of that one scene from "Madea Goes to Jail" where the Judge in the beginning portions looks shocked when she hears that Madea wasn't marandized when she was being arrested before the film began.
Then she looks sideways at the police officer in the neck brace and loudly exclaims, "EXCUSE ME?!"
Ah...I want to make a GIF of that.
When an apologist or an atheist make a video usually I watch a rebuttal video, then decide who’s claims seem more true. For Zoomer’s video I was instantly able to point out many problems with all of his arguments.