You're choosing to share your powerful and difficult journey on TH-cam. A lot of the time you seem to be the one who says "the Emperor has no clothes." Keep up the needed conversations.
I love that you're directly addressing the resident critics in your comment sections in such a calm, rational, and empathetic way. K hope they actually listen and respond in good faith, as I realize that many of them only react to your titles and other commentors rather than bravely facing the depths of your actual content. As always, keep up the great work!
The church fathers handled all these problems... by burning the writings and writers who pointed out these problems. That was very Christ-like, as Jesus threatened to burn his critics forever.
My initial thought: even modern apologists will admit to motivated reasoning, often elevating it as a badge of honor which illustrates their faith, and when you read the works of these church fathers, you see the same behavior. Martin Luther specifically said that reason itself should submit to the gospel message. So yeah, all of these issues have been dealt with, poorly.
Abrahamic religions have always been against rational thinking, and that can be seen from the start, in the Garden of Eden story. The unforgivable sin Adam and Eve committed was using their own reasoning instead of just obeying. The story of Job makes it even clearer: you aren't supposed to understand, you are supposed to obey and accept the decisions of the authority. Modern apologetics began when the enlightment movement, the printing press and the advance of science made that position untennable.
“Reason is the Devil’s greatest whore; by nature and manner of being she is a noxious whore; she is a prostitute, the Devil’s appointed whore; whore eaten by scab and leprosy who ought to be trodden under foot and destroyed, she and her wisdom … Throw dung in her face to make her ugly. She is and she ought to be drowned in baptism… She would deserve, the wretch, to be banished to the filthiest place in the house, to the closets.” [Martin Luther, Erlangen Edition v. 16, pp. 142-148] "But since the devil’s bride, Reason, that pretty whore, comes in and thinks she’s wise, and what she says, what she thinks, is from the Holy Spirit, who can help us, then? Not judges, not doctors, no king or emperor, because [reason] is the Devil’s greatest whore." [Martin Luther’s Last Sermon in Wittenberg … Second Sunday in Epiphany, 17 January 1546. Dr. Martin Luthers Werke: Kritische Gesamtausgabe. (Weimar: Herman Boehlaus Nachfolger, 1914), Band 51:126, Line 7ff]
When I'm asked why a non-believer would want to talk about Christianity and its claims, I answer that ideas are interesting, but more than that, the religion in question exerts huge influence on the politics of my nation. Fighting against belief in it is an act of self-defense.
An act of self-defense against what? If atheism is true, there are no morals, so it's not like you can claim that you have moral superiority over Christians. If atheism is really true, then you must naturally submit to Christians since you can't logically claim that Christians are doing anything wrong.
I absolutely love this channel. I deconverted about 6 yrs ago and have watched the atheist community for a long time and got fresh new perspectives from this channel. I’m alone in my atheism. I live in southern West Virginia and am surrounded by Christians and I don’t get to live my authentic self life. My mom sings in a gospel group and is extremely devote. I tried to tell her that when I was in church all it ever made me feel was guilt fear and shame. She literally shakes her head, says no and shuts down the conversation. Walking away upset. It’s my fault tho. Not her gods. It’s my moral failing. I caused god to not hear me or have done something so bad that has caused god to abandon me. So this channel has helped me so much. Thank you for all your hard work that you put into this. Fellow redhead 🙂actually strawberry blonde but still ginger. Lol
I know my mum must believe the exact same. I know she used to. Essentially iv always had mental health issues & when I started 'acting out' by self harming I was punished. The 'treatment' was more church, more prayer, more being watched & even followed by her friends & nothing I liked. Apparently I was doing it because I had demons/the devil inside me & it was my fault for liking rock music & generally not being 'normal' I was 10/11. Too long a story but tbh I just don't talk about myself. She has stopped insisting everything I like & my appearance is a phase. On one hand she is more accepting at least to my face but I know her beliefs say I'm going to hell yadda.. Of course circumstances dictate but is moving a possibility? If not immediately then in the future? P.S I hope you are OK.
@snooganslestat2030 plan to move out of this environment and in the mean time do whatever keeps you safe and sane even if it means to not bring religion up at all
@@Nancy20012 That would be my advice. I'm in the UK & so thankfully we don't have the same issue with religion in general. I don't think I'd have got on too well if I was somewhere where the word atheist is seen in such a negative light. It takes a lot of strength to go against the norm & I wish you all the best.
Yet your heart can't let it go so your apart of a belief system of atheism that sleeps, dreams, and thinks of Jesus Christ everyday. Signs pointing to him all over. It's ok. I'm like you. I don't believe in the Easter bunny, but I'm apart of a cult of Athiesters that make video and talk about how much we don't believe in the Easter bunny. Lol and like eachothers comments about it. Spend most of our time complaining about how others aren't able to convince us to stoke our own pride.
Or maybe it's also about your, and others, indulgent w***ing of authoritarianism... just maybe? Concealed within a pro scriptura envelope... and eventual, cult of personality. And of word. All frequently, damaging, the young.@@Mr.C-Mister
Apologetics have failed forever. They have only their incessant, fallacious babble, but their invisible magical friend is nowhere to be seen. For them to claim that the church fathers have dealt with anything at all is beyond ludicrous. You do great work, Your channel stands out for me, because of the calm, thorough and intelligent way you address the topics. We have so many angry atheist youtubers, but calm collected, reasoning is rare. You do not need to justify the existence of your channel. Your channel speaks for itself.
theologian Ray Anderson asked if Jesus was raised and his brain also does he think about things have new thoughts change his mind?Does he remember everything 2000 years ago
Wrong. It has NEVER failed. The only failure is from people not admitting their view is wrong. As for the Church Fathers…do you have any idea what ridiculous nonsense they were fighting? It makes modern day atheist nonsense pale in comparison
It is helpful to know what apologetics IS and what it ISN'T. Scripture tells believers to be ready to give an answer for the hope that is in them when questioned about THEIR HOPE in Jesus Christ (see 1 Peter 3:15); this is what apologetics IS. Apologetics ISN'T attempting to answer every question or accusation raised by the skeptic or the mocker. Scripture is able to make men wise unto salvation through faith in Jesus Christ (ref. 2 Timothy 3:15). The scriptures do not give exhaustive treatment about all things, but they are certainly a lamp unto our feet and a light unto our path (ref. Psalm 119:105). God is good to remind us that we don't have the power to turn one of our own hairs white or black (ref. Matthew 5:36) nor do men know of things concerning his creation (ref. Job 38-40). In light of these limitations of men, humility is in order. God instructs the humble but opposes the proud (ref. 1 Peter 5:b). He will graciously receive sinners to himself today.
yes, this is one of the things that shook me as a child, watching my beautiful Catholic mother suffer the rest of her life because she'd had a miscarriage. That never was far in her mind, the conviction that her unborn, unbaptized child was suffering somewhere every moment of every day.
I tend to respond with "you think I'm the first person to point out how the earlier responses _don't_ fix the issues?" These people fail to realize that ancient unsatisfactory answers don't make the original, or my current, issue go away just because they want to avoid the issue. Its also very much a pot calling the kettle black sort of thing. If the world tossed out and forgot about every Christian argument/claim that has been thoroughly addressed and debunked in the past, they wouldn't have any arguments left... instead I am forced to address thinks as pedantic as Pascal's wager over and over and over and over again.
A christain who brought up religion, knowing my views, when corner told me, she don't care if the Word (The bible) was fabricated, she wouldn't stop believing in God. So Believers gives us a hard time, making us seemed to be the bad guys. But when you confront them with truth, they don't live up to the standards they accuse you of lacking. I see cognitive dissonance & Hypocrisy at work
In my opinion, believing in God is different from believing in the Bible God or any man-made religion God. Frankly I do believe in a god. I can’t tell you what that god is but I can tell you it isn’t in the Bible or in any man-made religion. But I certainly do understand and get true atheism. Atheism trumps the Bible, man-made religion god any day of the week.
I was a former born in Jehovah’s Witness. I thought I had the wrong Jesus and did a deep dive into the early church fathers and their writings. I left the cult and joined a mainstream church. I saw so much unchristian behavior mostly on a political scale within the church that I started to doubt. I then came across Bart Ehrman, The book God an Anatomy and the MythVision channel on TH-cam, now your channel. The genie can never be put back in the bottle I am done with religion!
Brandon I must admit your videos are like balm to my soul still weary after years of christian gaslighting back in childhood, with those arguments like "you are just too spoiled by nature to see the deep meaning behind all this, but, you know, those Church fathers, they proved the Scripture to be true by making their hearts pure". So relieving to hear these exact issues addressed, almost the way I used to but expressed with much more consistency than I ever could. Also interesting how tightly my experience intersects with yours and of many people in the comments, despite me having grown in Russian Orthodox Tradition. And guess what, the mildest thing I was told of Western churches was "heresy". Glad I ditched this view years ago but turns out deconversion doesn't happen all at once, so yeah, thank you for your great effort
When this happens to me in science and engineering and I think of an idea or see an issue that's obvious, I gain deeper understanding in learning why it wouldn't work or what the reason is.
I’ve found that when Christian’s ask “why do you feel the need to rebut my religious perspective”, many times it comes from a place of fear. The fear that they’re wrong.
@@hrvatskinoahid1048 There is a clear difference here: Christians fear, that their invested belief is wrong and thus all the time they spent praying and talking with themselves was in vain. They follow the sunk cost fallacy and cling onto their belief, even if much evidence points to the bible not being the work of an omniscient being. Atheists also fear many of the same things as Christians do (losing loved ones, death, violence, war), but they normally aren't afraid of losing an invested belief when discussing religion.
The need arises from the damage religion does. Christianity, in particular, is founded on belief. Believing is the highest achievement. This encourages wishful thinking and leads to the idea that belief justifies. For example, if you really believe that something is supposed to be yours, you are entitled to take it any way you can. You only have to believe. You only have to convince yourself.
Hey Brandon, I just want to mention how much I appreciate the work that you're doing with this channel because I've honestly been having a really hard time for the past 2 months or so when it comes to my feelings on religion Recently, I decided to tell my parents the truth about how I felt with my unbelief in God and that I'm not planning to go to church anymore, and... they made it really clear that they now want nothing else to do with me. So now I have to move out of the house while dealing with the fact that they've been avoiding me ever since I told them It really sucks, but I just couldn't keep lying to myself about how I felt towards this religion. So I really appreciate you trying to help people in my position because it honestly helps way more than you might think
best to you! That's awful about your family but now you are free to discover life, beliefs, goals, new relationships based on who you are, not on what others tell you that you are supposed to be. Hope I'm not over-stepping here, I just feel so bad for what you are going through.
Man, i am so so sorry to hear about your family. It angers me so much that the real love we have in our life is willing to throw it away for a fake god. Theres much ahead thats so good, but again i hate that its going this way for you.
@DevanteWilliams I just wanted to say firstly, I am sorry to know that you are going through such a difficult time, I hope that in the future you'll be able to have some relationship with your family, should that be what you want and is best for you. Secondly, I wanted to say that though this may be small comfort if any to you at the moment, you should know that by sharing this, here, you _will_ help an atheist who has never been religious, be less ignorant, (and less of an ass, possibly) and maybe be the catalyst for them to get involved with or support those who help people such as yourself, who are leaving religion, or struggling with their ideologies. Finally, it is precisely because of channels like this and responses from people like yourself, that I eventually stopped being an unforgivably judgemental, arrogant in my ignorance, utter ass, about how I thought about and viewed religious people. (Non professional apologists that is) I was considerably younger at the height of my most obnoxiously smug opinion, and unbelievably ignorant about the culture, indoctrination, social factors, the existence of apologetics, the effect of regular church attendance on people.. you name it. I was especially inconsiderate of the potentially traumatizing experience of losing belief and the possible consequent relationship damage. I have learned a lot over the past 25 or so years, mostly because people like you speak out about your experiences. For what that's worth, I hope it does help. I sincerely wish you the best, and an sorry that this is such a difficult time.
You are certainly making a difference! This argument (cowardly dodge) always bugs me, cause they'll never criticize upstart apologetics channels this way. "Oh the church fathers already proved it, who needs your voice, why are you special?" Your voice is important, I was an atheist already when I found your channel, but I still watch because of your frequent and effortful content. Just like the channels i found first that helped me through my deconversion. ❤
This is a very interesting point to raise. I myself am coming from having held polytheistic beliefs for over 40 years, while never having held Judeo Christian beliefs. It was only after figuring out how susceptible my beliefs made me to fallacious arguments and how they constantly encouraged me to use thought stopping techniques to avoid analyzing why I believed what I did. At the same time I grew up in the midst of fundamental Christian purity culture which I have since realized imposed a great deal of harmful beliefs and behaviors as well. Only after realizing that I had a need to evaluate my beliefs and test how well they held up logically, did I even begin to understand how thoroughly Christian beliefs impacted my own. I have had to deconstruct nearly as many Christian beliefs as I have polytheists ones. So for me I think it is even more apparent how harmful many of these ideas are to society.
I am rather curious as to how and why you deconstructed from polytheism. That's a subject I don't know much about. Arguments for polytheism are pretty hard to come by. I'd like to know what the case for polytheism is, as it seems to be historically more common than monotheism.
My beliefs used to be something like polytheistic panentheism and I found that same problem with believing fallacious arguments (even to the point where I got badly ripped off by a person i should have never done business with). I deconstructed in 2020 as I went to drop some bad habits and learned about neuroscience. There’s definitely not enough pushback against the “spiritual” beliefs when they use the same thought stopping cliches as organized religion. Glad we’re both out of there!
It started as a result of something that came up when I was in Seminary. In one of my classes on ritual design and construction, the instructor had spent several weeks describing the various purposes of each element of a typical wiccan or pagan ritual, which I had been noticing was far more formulaic than I expected. When she began the wrap up summary describing how all of these pieces fit together her phrasing caused me to do a hard stop. She said "In summary, our job as clergy in crafting rituals is to convince the participants that they are interacting with the divine, not with us or each other. They need to truly believe the gods are speaking to them specifically." I spoke to her after class to ask how this was anything but direct manipulation. She responded by saying that of course it was, but people join covens and other pagan groups because they want to be convinced that this is the case. Therefore it's perfectly justified to create this experience for them. I found the answer even more appalling than what she said in class and dropped out of Seminary the next day.
Good morning, Brandon. Thanks again for the upload. I sent some of your videos to a Christian friend of mine who is starting to doubt his faith, and he says that he loved the videos and they're making him think. By the way, I loved the map analogy.
@SecretChessGames Actually, he does know his Bible. That's one of the reasons he's starting to doubt. Knowing the Bible is one of the reasons I was able to escape from religion. I saw how horrific, vile, mysegenistic, blood-thirsty, immoral, and just downright cruel the God of the Bible is. Luckily, God is just a myth.
@@Johnmhatheist your reply hit home. I left religion but allowed my daughter to go to church with her grandmother. After coming across this channel and being in shock of what the bible actually teaches, I decided to not allow that environment to shape her.
"Do you think that you're the first to notice this? The church has answers to these points." "No, I don't. Do you think that you're the first one to bring those answers to my attention?"
Yes, I like your focus on using the Bible as your tool to show how harmful the religion can be. As a former sword drill champion, it’s amazing to me the things we would ignore or rationalize in the Bible. So to me you add so much in your deep knowledge of the Bible.
Yes, I like your focus on using the Bible as your tool to show how harmful the religion can be. As a former sword drill champion, it’s amazing to me the things we would ignore or rationalize in the Bible. So to me you add so much in your deep knowledge of the Bible.
How we communicate and obtain information also changes. Fewer people look to libraries for answers or even do in-depth internet research actually checking the validity of sources. What you do, Brandon, reaches people who otherwise may never encounter the questions you bring up. "mortal men making mortal guesses" still going on today which is why these points need to be constantly examined and re-addressed. Brandon doesn't just offer another voice presenting the same old. His research is terrific, he doesn't make claims unless he can support them, his delivery style is smooth and audience friendly, he invites rather than mocks, he understands why people believe what they do, how difficult it is to break away, and how painful it is to recover because he's been through it. And so much more! Not all voices are the same, not all perspectives are the same. Thank you for all the work, Brandon, and for putting up with criticism!
I wish these channels were available to me a long time ago when I was starting to leave religion. It would have been easier. I always appreciate your information and your way of getting that across, as well as the support and sometimes new perspectives. This was a taboo subject that I wasn't able to discuss with most people and most nonbelievers had to hide. It's still not as simple, especially with family members but I have more courage and knowledge now. Thank you very much for being here.
You are doing a wonderful job, Brandon. Helping people overcome their childhood brainwashing. It's child abuse filling little kids head with silly religious nonsense. But you know all about that.
I really appreciate that you talk about the "church fathers" as an ex-Protestant Christian! So many fellow Protestants say "huh? who??" when you mention anyone from before about 1300, or even 1500.
Brandon, your voice is unique and there really aren't that many channels that promote logic and reason. There are way more Christian and Catholic showings. You are very honest in your presentations. We do need your thoughts!
Brandon, you may not be the first, but you certainly are the best. Your way of analyzing and explaining things is superb and unique. Those who negatively criticize you do so because they are either too lazy to think or too afraid to lose their money-making source, that is their followers. Keep up the great work and never give up!
Thank you for being exhaustive like this and not addressing only the classical subjects of counter-apologetics. Your work is singular, important, and needed.
Ah, shutting you up by shaming you ploy. I recall asking a Retreat Master "How can I know there is a god"" and was met with "How can I know there is air in this room" Laughter, "How can I know..." and so on, more laughter. Did not settle my mind, told me, He doesn't know either and I better not ask any more. But I did and here I am today. Great vid.
@@scrider5493 I agree, in the book I am reading they also bring up that a lot of people in HCR (high controlling religion) are terrified of the change and control others not of a need to control but from a deep need to feel safe. It does not make it right but at least it gives some ounce of understanding to something that is abhorrent
If folks are saying that it's just to discourage you and shut you up. Keep talking. Keep revealing. I didn't get out until I was almost 40. I wish I could have heard someone like you when I was young. To be trapped in ANY religion and to believe there is a god, is a sad thing. The argument against god is quick, foolproof, and unbeatable, yet the religious will not think. It DOES take someone saying the right thing that starts the doubt and slowly leads to truth. KEEP IT UP!
My favorite quote from Tertullian is, "The Son of God died; just because it is absurd, it is to be believed: and He was buried and rose again; it is certain, because it is impossible." So here's an early church theologian explicitly acknowledging that there's an inverse relationship between faith and evidence. I don't think I've ever heard a better definition of faith: belief that is not only evidence-free, but contrary to evidence and reason.
@@hrvatskinoahid1048, it's a stretch to interpret that verse, or any other that references God's son, as if it refers to the Son of God. Even if it does, what does your reply have to do with my comment?
Several years ago, I read a fascinating article about various neuro-ailments that cast doubts about wether souls could exist. There was this split brain syndrome, but it also engaged about the "rogue hand" syndrome, extreme short memory loss that basically resets someone's life, etc. I'd love to find it again. It was online. If someone sees this and knows, please share !
Hi, Brandon. I just subscribed! I also enjoyed watching this video. When you were talking about the Church Fathers, I couldn’t help but be amused. So much for the idea of biblical inerrancy, when it’s obvious that these guys were making it up as they went and could not agree with each other. *gasp* It’s as if people throughout history influenced Christianity with their own opinions! Anyways, I can’t wait for more uploads from you!
Well YOU are the only one that has helped me the most. Maybe it's because you went through it...but mostly because your process is so well explained and real and I can relate it to my own thoughts. I think the people who write comments to you like this one are the people whom you have frightened.
Thank you so much for this video. I don't encounter many apologists in my daily life, but I've seen the videos. It's good to remember that ultimately, it comes down to gatekeeping. "My form of Christianity is the ONLY right one, and STFU" doesn't help anyone.
A while ago I was in a chat room with half a dozen self identified Christians and I asked who believed in Original Sin. Four of them promptly replied saying they didn’t believe in it. They didn’t want to expand upon that and ignored the fact that Original sin is a central tenant to most Christian theology’s.
Thank you for your help. The education on things my pastors would not discuss with me about the bible is important. It has really helped me cope with an atheistic realization.
Much of Christian apologetics is just someone pointing out an obviously terrible thing, and then the apologist just talking for a long time hoping that if they string enough words together that the person who pointed it out will just magically forget.
You DO provide an ESSENTIAL resource for those of us who had doubts, saw the illogic of it all, and in my case, left the faith, but still felt like "am I the only one who feels like this? Who sees all these issues?" And after finding your program and some others, it was SOOO encouraging to find out I was NOT alone in those thoughts and realizations. So THANK YOU for your knowledge and calm, logical approach to this very crucial and personal, integral issue to human lives. You help doubters see the validity of their doubts, and confirm those of us who did walk away that we did so for valid and logical reasons.
I think you have a great temperament, and balance very well between being assertive and direct, but also understanding, calm and well-reasoned. I think there is an important space for many different attitudes snd approaches, like some of the really gentle and soft Atheists who approach Christian conversations, I'm thinking Alex O'Connor and Genetically modified skeptic in this group, and there's a place for the most 'harsh' such as Dilahunty and Hitchens. And of course more in between such as Dan Barker and Forrest Valkai. Also wanted to mention I think it's a great strategy that you are super consistent about when you upload videos.
Brandon, you are an exceptional voice in this space! I'm comfortably deconverted but I always want to learn more, and this channel has been an outstanding source of information. Today's video is no exception! The references to and reliance on the "church fathers" highlights the incompleteness and inconsistency of this god's feeble attempt at writing a book. If I were an all-knowing god and was going to "inspire" a bunch of folks to write down my teachings, I would have answered a lot more questions a lot more clearly. The church could have avoided a lot of schisms and wars, torture and executions, etc. if their foundational text did a better job of explaining who god is, how salvation works, and other essential topics. The best and worst thing about it is that it's all a myth. The good news is that people won't actually wind up in an eternal lake of fire if they don't believe. On the other hand, millions of people have lived in fear or died because of their beliefs or someone else's. Keep up the great work Brandon!
Brandon, thank you SO much for giving me an in-depth exploration of both theistic and atheistic arguments. I love the Secular Scripture Readings, which have helped me re-re-re-re-RE-view the Bible and see its influence on cultural thought and the numerous flaws and acts of each book’s protagonists and antagonists, if it can be put simply. I also thank you for a video about non-Christian texts which offer a moral system more grounded than the Bible. I have begun with Marcus Aurelius, “Meditations” and plan to move on to the Baghavad Gita. Most of all, thank you for the enjoyable Dissecting the Divine videos which focus on the book “God: An Anatomy.” I have been reading the book on my own, and I have just finished “Part 2: Genitals.” It has been an insightful and humorous read. So, again, thank you for broadening my mind and helping me become more literate on the subjects of reason and faith.
As a Christian, I appreciate this type of content and critique of Church history. I like to balance out different topics in Christianity between Christian’s and atheist so I’m very glad I found your channel! 👍
You‘re not just another voice in this space good buddy, you’re THE up and coming voice of the next generation of atheist counter-apologists. Your USP and greatest strength is that you’re not just another scientist or logician, but that you beat your former creed by using its own internal logic and arguments. As you so often say: all I want is a little consistency. You’re beating the apologist karens on their very own turf: theology, philosophy, but most importantly LITERATURE. So rare to find an intelligent person in this space. And I only feel comfortable telling you this because I know that you’re sincere in your humility. Keep up the good work!
TOUCHÉ! Well done! So many things you said are things I have often thought. Maybe it is the first time for some to hear what you are saying, maybe the person listening is just now in the right place mentally and emotionally to hear what you are saying, maybe you are saying something in just the right way for someone to have an AHA! moment and so much more. Although I am old I just learned in the last few years who Marcion is! I just learned how common virgin births and resurrections were in the Hellenized world, just learned about mystery religions and so much more! Without even knowing it I had lived in a very carefully constructed American Christian bubble! You never know who and when someone is ready to hear what you are saying - just like believers say about the salvation message! Hard to imagine anyone in America not knowing that but it is preached all over the country every single Sunday! 🤦🏼♀️ Keep at it Brandon! ❤️🐷 (I add the pig for my 2 pig heart valves 🤣) Have to laugh about it because, what else can I do?!
Right? he was the first to really get trough to me and that has changed my life, for the better :) wow, you have pig heart valves? that is cool! sorry I am in health care and a bit of a geek when it comes to stuff like that, so know I really mean that i think its cool :)
I was a member of the Orthodox Church for a few years. I think the heavy reliance and trust they put in their church fathers is actually one of the most damning parts of the tradition and those like it.
Yes, it seems to me that most religions, and especially the Abrahamic ones, train us to worship human men. I don't think that's a coincidence, considering, as Seneca said, "Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful."
Well said! There are those who like to think for themselves, and those who just believe what they're told. Even our science-based beliefs and long-held opinions should be reconsidered from time to time. "Keep Thinking" indeed - such an apt close to this video 😊
The thing about science is that (when uncorrupted by the need for money for grants, or corporate bending and shaping), it's *designed* to be questioned and to change when more information is available. And at least in my case, I find it's as handy to review my long-held opinions as it is to not wear the same clothes for a lifetime (I wouldn't fit in my baby clothes very well). The other thing about long-held opinions is that they can be hard to notice, since they've been with us so long-- that's why I come to this channel, and other sources that look at long-held opinions in a new way.
I'm glad you're here. You and the young lady named Julie (I think she said she was going to take a break) have both addressed the many issues and questions I've always had about "christiantiy" and I was always gaslighted into thinking that somehow I was the one in error.
Love Kristi. christendumb2 is who woke me. Has EXPOSED THIS EVIL FOR 14 YEARS Noticed has no new shows. How can anyone with MORALS, BRAINS NOT GO NUTS WITH THIS EVIL PSYCHOS BOOK
Your channel is so accessible. You do a great job laying out objective information. I binge-watched your Secular Bi le Study. You have helped me deconstruct my faith. I appreciate that you came from a believer background and can contrast the two worldviews.
This I know. Your voice, in particular, is vital to me. Your reasons and examples for why these questions and responses still matter, will always matter - on point and fantastic. I'm grateful you work so hard. I appreciate that I am gifted with your clarity and so much emotional intelligence that your responses pierce the utter cacophony of b.s.
Don’t let the Devil’s minions get you down! Yours are among the most thorough and impacting analyses out there. It was the church father who first showed me 50 years ago just how shallow and made up it all was. Follow that with the story of the Cannon… keep it up!
I found that it didn't matter what anyone said, what I read, I couldn't give a 'valid' argument or reason for why I believed other than my personal, subjective experience, which nobody could really relate to. There wasn't/isn't any evidence that anything actually happened and nothing in my current life that pointed towards anything supernatural.
They always want to silence the opposition. You are especially dangerous to their cause because you not only have your personal experience with religion but you also have a Bible degree from a Christian institution. You give critical thinkers the additional information we crave. Keep it up!
Here’s another perspective on your channel, as an atheist it’s eye opening to understand the way a christian thinks. What is their worldview? What is the lens through which they view reality? I have both my atheist children watching the bible study series to gain an understanding of what that’s all about. This channel isn’t just for those in the process of deconstructing!! So much fascinating content, a real asset to the community!
It's a great idea to give your kids this perspective on the bible! Because it does affect so many aspects of secular culture, and they're going to run into it: this way, they have a better understanding of its worldview origins.
The audacity and utter lack of self awareness that it takes for any Christian who has heard the same story over and over again from thousands of pastors and denominations, to call you an unnecessary voice in an overcrowded space! There are five different churches in a one block span just on my street.
Funny how God was able to influence the authors of holy scripture to write the perfect word of God, but was seemingly unable to influence the earliest mapmakers to perfectly draw his creation.
You make SO MUCH SENSE… I appreciate everything you post. I think the way you present it is calm, logical, well thought out, no condescension - keep doing what you’re doing!
Had i not watched your videos about Yahweh i wouldn't have known because truth is i was a xtrian but never read the bible save to follow the church weekly bible reading on a pamphlet. So please they should know your message reached us here in South Africa and set us free from slavery of religion the tithes etc. they must relax and mind their business. Their god should be able to defend himself after all he all knowing and powerful. Don't mind them Brandon lets keep the ball rolling with the learnings ❤💪🏽 Kudos to you coach
It kills me. If an apologist thinks a church father already addressed an issue, that apologist is already using that argument! This is an attempt to send someone on a wild goose chase, reading dusty books forever before they are allowed to object.
PREACH IT!! AMEN, BROTHER!!!! You need me (off camera even tho I am still pretty hot at age 62) yelling these things as you talk, "Amen! Preach! Praise the King! Praise His holy name!" This is wonderful, and I like the idea of you talking to/addressing the things these idiots, I mean Christians, say. How cruel they can be! And, I have NEVER thought about the fact that at one time the damned PLOW was state of the art!!!! Wow! I wonder if anyone says that to those morons, I mean religious people. Sorry, I retired early, and I feel I can say anything, and it is WONDERFUL. I always understand if you want to delete.Thanks for this. Joey
Great video! And in continuing my tradition of latching onto something super small: Thank you so, so much for using BCE/CE. I see so many people, even atheists, still using the pretty darn outdated terminology of BC/AD, which was going out of vogue even "way back" in the '90s, as I recall, and while I'm not sure there's much to do about the Christian-centric way we count our years overall (overhauling the system would be no simple task), the least we can do is de-Christianize that little part of it.
(Though maybe my sense of it going out of vogue then was because the main place I encountered the need for such indicators was in Hebrew school, where there would have been a concerted effort to veer away from Christianized language, anyway.)
@@OldNewsIsGoodNewsWell, I read books on archaeology and suchlike, and I've noticed this trend for at least a few decades-- maybe even going back to the 1970s.
@@sundayoliver3147 Thank you! I'm glad it's not just me and that other people were noticing it even before it would have been on my radar (edit: slash, before I was even around for it to be on my radar 😅). #FeelingValidated
You are definitely meeting a need for all the reasons you speak of in this video. I trust your information since you are clearly well read and informed. Keep it up! I don't miss a video and generally listen to them several times.
Great video Brandon! You have definitely helped me verbalize some doubts that I had been suppressing for so long, and it's refreshing to hear actually reasonable thoughts rather than stale, cliche answers from apologists If church fathers "already handled this," then the Christian should just mention the solution these church fathers actually gave instead of harping on the fact that they did have an answer (Unless of course the Christian doesn't know that answer)
Because they don't know the answer. They've never read any of the church fathers, let alone know anything about them than perhaps their names which they probably got from other apologetic sources. They've never done the deep dive themselves.
IMO it seems to betray an ingrained hierarchical mindset on their behalf. It's like they're saying "They already had an answer, and they're better than you so sit down and shut up". As if smart people are never wrong about anything.
I’ve got to say, after watching atheist channels for the past 5 years, yours is definitely the best. The way that you deliver the information and the way you touch on subjects I haven’t heard before is amazing. I’ve found a lot of comfort in the arguments you make and have never felt so sure that if god is real, the Christian god is not it. That brings the evangelical-raised side of my brain a lot of peace. Keep doing what you’re doing ❤️
Helped you stay lost. Realize there's a reason why you feel confused and upset. Atheism belief system is that of misery claiming the scientific impossibility that nothing created everything and you will ultimately return to that nothing. Where's the hope? Why do you need to be helped to prolong your suffering on earth if it's all futile? I can tell you for a fact it's not. But you need to want to seek the truth instead of seeking after others to confuse and misguided you. Study God's word and use historical context, interlinear version to get the depth of certain words and phrases and idioms and poetic statements and and things meant to be taken literally. See the architectural evidence found that links to the bible. Scientific facts like carbon 14 being in every living thing till it dies and stops absorbing. With a life span of 60k years till it converts 100% due to radioactive decay. Yet we find it in all dinosaur bones which are claimed to be millions of years. Found also in diamonds which is the hardest substance known to man and can not be stained yet supposedly millions of years old and still carbon14 found inside. This universe is dying and going through Entropy which is a law in thermodynamics. Not some theory like evolution which is full of holes. Entropy proves beyond all human reasoning to the contrary that is everything is winding down. Someone wound it up. That someone is known as God. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
Happy Sunday, Brandon! [Edit: I fixed 6 embarrassing typos] Your consistently prompt posting of videos at 7am PST, 8am Mountain Time, 9am Central Time, or 10 AM Eastern timea enbles me to listen from my bed! So, lets not forget that many people ... (? Blank thought, I am going to sleep, have a nice day)
I've never had someone tell me "you think you're the first to notice", but even if someone did...so what? So what if I'm not the first? Isn't that actually worse, that it's been noticed before? I've said a time or two before that just because the church fathers had an answer doesn't mean they were right in their answer.
Personally, you and Genetically Modified Skeptic are my favorite TH-cam channels for my deconstruction. I think both of you are empathetic and measured. I remember Drew was talking to his ex-Muslim friend, and his friend said channels that mocked and yelled about religion weren't very appealing to him when he began deconstructing. That really resonated with me; I think that's why it took me a few years to begin my own deconstruction. That being said, sometimes mockery is cathartic. It's been a year since I watched Belief It or Not's video on cool youth pastors, and the part where he goes, "You want kids to think Christian-ly about science?!?!?" rings in my head often, especially when I hear pastors complain about what schools and universities teach.
For a very long time, the church avoided questions by withholding information. Sermons were in Latin, and literacy rates were low in the Middle Ages. Later, the church fought _hard_ against printing the Bible in local languages and resisted changing how sermons were delivered.
Yup. And killing people who disagreed with the church, and confiscating all of their families' property, kept "belief" alive during that low-literacy time. No wonder they wanted to keep it up, it's how the Vatican got its immense wealth.
I look forward to all your videos and they are always filled with sincerity and kindness. Some of the worst comments in any video, no matter the channel or topic, come from christians. I see no victory or growth in these people. And I certainly see nothing that I want to emulate. There is no power behind their belief system. They are some of the most hateful, injurious people I've ever met. I'm so glad to be free from the belief system, which has allowed me to actually heal. The very thing that Jesus was supposed to do for me, never happened until I kicked him off the throne. Interestingly, so many hurting Christians come to me for help; a non-Christian is who they see filled with love, kindness, and empathy. Their words, not mine.
Brandon, I really appreciate your perspective - even though I'm a Christian, I find myself saying "yes and amen" to about 80% of what you have to say here. As someone who does say "the Father addressed this", allow me to provide some gentle pushback to that 20%. I agree with you that if a Christian says "the Fathers dealt with this" to shut down discussion, that is illegitimate, lazy, and all the other things you point out in your video. However, when I appeal to the Fathers, it's usually in the context of letting fellow believers know that they are not alone in their questions. For example, I think a lot about the issue of divine violence, especially in the Tanakh vs New Testament. It turns out Christians have been chewing on that question all the way since at least 165 C.E., with different perspectives, contexts, and contributions to issue (see, for example, C. Hofreiter's book "Making Sense of Old Testament Genocide" which tracks the reception history of the herem passages). To use your analogy of mapmakers, I wouldn't say "the Fathers have already explored this area, don't bother" rather, "if you want to explore this area, you're in good company". Cheers. - Z
Your channel inspired my channel. My perspective and what I offer is something far less heady and intellectual, but I'm doing a long form reading of the whole Bible to put everything in its context and see if it's still ridiculous. Spoiler alert: it is! But in the month I've been posting, I've had responses not unlike this in the sense that it's really just designed to bully you, push you down and snuff out any opposition without any thoughtful responses. Another version of that is to recount the gospel message again as if there's power in the concept. You're fighting the good fight! Keep going! :)
"You aren't the first person to make that argument." Then where's your counterarguement? If this was solved hundreds of years ago, what's the answer? Saying someone is incorrect or uninformed without an argument to back it up is the epitome of a dead argument. Thanks for all the videos! Just found the channel recently, but your content is fun to watch. Don't let the haters get you down!
I think a great series would be a secular look at the theology of early church fathers and how it manifests in the modern day. Kind of like the secular Bible study series.
For me, the urgency of the work you're doing arises from the fact that Christianity in its current incarnation isn't so much a set of metaphysical propositions as it is an activist, political movement, the agenda of which needs to be vigilantly checked by the rest of us, for whom their Bible is just another old book.
This is the urgency, isn't it? I would have no problem with believers practicing their faiths in ways that don't impact the freedoms of others, but that is not the political reality we live in.
Exactly. That’s the reason we don’t see many channels criticizing minor groups (Baha’is, for example). Because they don’t try to force all of us to conform to their beliefs.
Considered Christianity checked. It's been destroyed by this video. Or hasn't it? What exactly does this video or you do to prevent the growth of God's word? Many have tried and as you do the work of the devil seeking to attack what you claim not to believe in is nothing more than evil. You don't know God but you hate him. You should pray to God and ask him why.
@@Mr.C-Mister Look around. Christians are doing more to "prevent the growth of God's word" than atheists ever could. It wasn't atheists that drove guys like Brandon and me away from belief. It was the abhorrent, contradictory "word of God" and the abhorrent, contradictory actions of the people who claim to act in God's name.
The disciples who were there at the start and knew Jesus were illiterate and didn’t leave anything written down. Paul left a few letters but he never met Jesus during his ministry. So the oldest surviving sources gained the status of church fathers.
Just maybe there wasn’t any “there” there to begin with…ie, no Jesus or disciples. I would not assert that, but it could easily be the case. See the minimal mythicist position…
Thanks Brandon for your efforts to challenge the claims of the religious. Your perspective and delivery is different from some others who have become famous "horsemen" on TH-cam, who are promoting skepticism and rational thinking. I welcome any additional light that can be shone upon reason.
Yep. When I was studying to be a minister, I picked up a set of The Early Church Fathers thinking I would be reading some profound deep spiritual insights and inspiration. Soooo disappointing. What a bunch of confused nuts they were. No different than the Christian clown show we see today.
I so much appreciate that your willingness to share your perspective on religion. It has been very helpful to me even though I left Christianity 35 years ago. You explain things in a way that makes a lot of sense to me and I especially like the fact that you have researched these matters extensively. Keep up the good work my friend!
Thank you for the encouragement to get out there and engage with both believers and nonbelievers. This is what I have pursued since deconverting 20 years ago. One of the ways I do that is by getting behind your efforts! So glad to help support your channel!! Please keep up the good work! You are equipping the real “saints” and tearing down strongholds against the truth of reason and logic.
Not so. Rather you are the one building up strongholds in your mind. Pride, prejudices, and speculations will never bring you to the truth. This is turning you away from the truth of the gospel of Jesus Christ towards lies. "For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war according to the flesh. For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds, casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ," (2 Corinthians 10:3-5) "But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is rightly judged by no one. For “who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct Him?” But we have the mind of Christ." (1 Corinthians 2:14-16)
Blah, blah, blah You think I don’t know what verses I was referring to…in jest?? Sorry to trample on your sacred text. But they were equally as sacred to me, till I learned the truth behind those texts. Four years of seminary specializing in Greek exegesis and 10 years of pastoring opened my eyes to the lies , contradictions and irrationality that is lurking in plain sight. But you will never see it as long as your more committed to being right than being honest.
@@paganalesociety" Four years of seminary specializing in Greek exegesis and 10 years of pastoring opened my eyes to the lies , contradictions and irrationality..." It does not matter how much experience you had with seminary and pastoring, because it has done you no good. What happened to your love for Jesus?
@@christophergibson7155 at least _we actually study_ and now know that NO truth is in your bible. You discredit every person's valid study and efforts, how *dishonest* you are and a constant troll !!!
![PURPEECH - นี่ฉันเองคนที่... (It's me) [Official MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/NuhHd0hOOg8/mqdefault.jpg)
Morning all, thanks for being here for this one! This is a response i’ve been wanting to address for some time.
I like secular Sunday school
I suppose these “mouth breathers” think that it’s a waste of time to explore and discuss the cosmos because it’s already been observed.
You're choosing to share your powerful and difficult journey on TH-cam. A lot of the time you seem to be the one who says "the Emperor has no clothes." Keep up the needed conversations.
I love that you're directly addressing the resident critics in your comment sections in such a calm, rational, and empathetic way. K hope they actually listen and respond in good faith, as I realize that many of them only react to your titles and other commentors rather than bravely facing the depths of your actual content.
As always, keep up the great work!
Corpus Callosum: The Brain's Bridge
The church fathers handled all these problems... by burning the writings and writers who pointed out these problems. That was very Christ-like, as Jesus threatened to burn his critics forever.
There you have it!
🎯
I can't get behind anything that actively DISCOURAGES critical thinking. That's a warning sign right there.
Right?!
My initial thought: even modern apologists will admit to motivated reasoning, often elevating it as a badge of honor which illustrates their faith, and when you read the works of these church fathers, you see the same behavior. Martin Luther specifically said that reason itself should submit to the gospel message. So yeah, all of these issues have been dealt with, poorly.
Great point! Love the added context.
Martin saw the writing on the wall and tried to get out ahead of it.
Abrahamic religions have always been against rational thinking, and that can be seen from the start, in the Garden of Eden story. The unforgivable sin Adam and Eve committed was using their own reasoning instead of just obeying. The story of Job makes it even clearer: you aren't supposed to understand, you are supposed to obey and accept the decisions of the authority. Modern apologetics began when the enlightment movement, the printing press and the advance of science made that position untennable.
I listen to both you guys @Mindshift and @Venaloid ...both of you make great videos!
“Reason is the Devil’s greatest whore; by nature and manner of being she is a noxious whore; she is a prostitute, the Devil’s appointed whore; whore eaten by scab and leprosy who ought to be trodden under foot and destroyed, she and her wisdom … Throw dung in her face to make her ugly. She is and she ought to be drowned in baptism… She would deserve, the wretch, to be banished to the filthiest place in the house, to the closets.” [Martin Luther, Erlangen Edition v. 16, pp. 142-148]
"But since the devil’s bride, Reason, that pretty whore, comes in and thinks she’s wise, and what she says, what she thinks, is from the Holy Spirit, who can help us, then? Not judges, not doctors, no king or emperor, because [reason] is the Devil’s greatest whore." [Martin Luther’s Last Sermon in Wittenberg … Second Sunday in Epiphany, 17 January 1546. Dr. Martin Luthers Werke: Kritische Gesamtausgabe. (Weimar: Herman Boehlaus Nachfolger, 1914), Band 51:126, Line 7ff]
When I'm asked why a non-believer would want to talk about Christianity and its claims, I answer that ideas are interesting, but more than that, the religion in question exerts huge influence on the politics of my nation. Fighting against belief in it is an act of self-defense.
Just like the saying “you might not care about politics but your boss does”
An act of self-defense against what? If atheism is true, there are no morals, so it's not like you can claim that you have moral superiority over Christians. If atheism is really true, then you must naturally submit to Christians since you can't logically claim that Christians are doing anything wrong.
I absolutely love this channel. I deconverted about 6 yrs ago and have watched the atheist community for a long time and got fresh new perspectives from this channel. I’m alone in my atheism. I live in southern West Virginia and am surrounded by Christians and I don’t get to live my authentic self life. My mom sings in a gospel group and is extremely devote. I tried to tell her that when I was in church all it ever made me feel was guilt fear and shame. She literally shakes her head, says no and shuts down the conversation. Walking away upset. It’s my fault tho. Not her gods. It’s my moral failing. I caused god to not hear me or have done something so bad that has caused god to abandon me. So this channel has helped me so much. Thank you for all your hard work that you put into this. Fellow redhead 🙂actually strawberry blonde but still ginger. Lol
Appreciate the thoughtful comment! I am so glad to get to be helpful for you!
I feel so bad for you living in that kind of environment. I hope one day you can move and live in a real, happy and healthy area.
I know my mum must believe the exact same. I know she used to. Essentially iv always had mental health issues & when I started 'acting out' by self harming I was punished. The 'treatment' was more church, more prayer, more being watched & even followed by her friends & nothing I liked.
Apparently I was doing it because I had demons/the devil inside me & it was my fault for liking rock music & generally not being 'normal'
I was 10/11.
Too long a story but tbh I just don't talk about myself. She has stopped insisting everything I like & my appearance is a phase. On one hand she is more accepting at least to my face but I know her beliefs say I'm going to hell yadda..
Of course circumstances dictate but is moving a possibility? If not immediately then in the future?
P.S I hope you are OK.
@snooganslestat2030 plan to move out of this environment and in the mean time do whatever keeps you safe and sane even if it means to not bring religion up at all
@@Nancy20012 That would be my advice. I'm in the UK & so thankfully we don't have the same issue with religion in general. I don't think I'd have got on too well if I was somewhere where the word atheist is seen in such a negative light.
It takes a lot of strength to go against the norm & I wish you all the best.
Yep, apologetics has addressed every one of our concerns, questions, and doubts a gazillion times…and every time, their attempts fail miserably.
Lol. Yup!
Yet your heart can't let it go so your apart of a belief system of atheism that sleeps, dreams, and thinks of Jesus Christ everyday. Signs pointing to him all over. It's ok. I'm like you. I don't believe in the Easter bunny, but I'm apart of a cult of Athiesters that make video and talk about how much we don't believe in the Easter bunny. Lol and like eachothers comments about it. Spend most of our time complaining about how others aren't able to convince us to stoke our own pride.
@@Mr.C-Mister 😂😂😂 your ignorance is so adorable.
Or maybe it's also about your, and others, indulgent w***ing of authoritarianism... just maybe?
Concealed within a pro scriptura envelope... and eventual, cult of personality.
And of word. All frequently, damaging, the young.@@Mr.C-Mister
@@Mr.C-MisterYou guys are STILL using the "if its not real why do you talk about it so much" argument???
Apologetics have failed forever. They have only their incessant, fallacious babble, but their invisible magical friend is nowhere to be seen.
For them to claim that the church fathers have dealt with anything at all is beyond ludicrous.
You do great work, Your channel stands out for me, because of the calm, thorough and intelligent way you address the topics. We have so many angry atheist youtubers, but calm collected, reasoning is rare. You do not need to justify the existence of your channel. Your channel speaks for itself.
Thank you so much for this. How kind.
theologian Ray Anderson asked if Jesus was raised and his brain also does he think about things have new thoughts change his mind?Does he remember everything 2000 years ago
Wrong. It has NEVER failed. The only failure is from people not admitting their view is wrong. As for the Church Fathers…do you have any idea what ridiculous nonsense they were fighting? It makes modern day atheist nonsense pale in comparison
It is helpful to know what apologetics IS and what it ISN'T. Scripture tells believers to be ready to give an answer for the hope that is in them when questioned about THEIR HOPE in Jesus Christ (see 1 Peter 3:15); this is what apologetics IS. Apologetics ISN'T attempting to answer every question or accusation raised by the skeptic or the mocker. Scripture is able to make men wise unto salvation through faith in Jesus Christ (ref. 2 Timothy 3:15). The scriptures do not give exhaustive treatment about all things, but they are certainly a lamp unto our feet and a light unto our path (ref. Psalm 119:105). God is good to remind us that we don't have the power to turn one of our own hairs white or black (ref. Matthew 5:36) nor do men know of things concerning his creation (ref. Job 38-40). In light of these limitations of men, humility is in order. God instructs the humble but opposes the proud (ref. 1 Peter 5:b). He will graciously receive sinners to himself today.
angry atheist? you sound like theist. don’t confuse an atheist responding to hateful nonsense with the angry trope.
Infant baptism embittered my mother. She knew in her heart it was insane. But, capitulated. Regretted until the end of her life.
yes, this is one of the things that shook me as a child, watching my beautiful Catholic mother suffer the rest of her life because she'd had a miscarriage. That never was far in her mind, the conviction that her unborn, unbaptized child was suffering somewhere every moment of every day.
Its truly so wild!
I tend to respond with "you think I'm the first person to point out how the earlier responses _don't_ fix the issues?"
These people fail to realize that ancient unsatisfactory answers don't make the original, or my current, issue go away just because they want to avoid the issue. Its also very much a pot calling the kettle black sort of thing. If the world tossed out and forgot about every Christian argument/claim that has been thoroughly addressed and debunked in the past, they wouldn't have any arguments left... instead I am forced to address thinks as pedantic as Pascal's wager over and over and over and over again.
A christain who brought up religion, knowing my views, when corner told me, she don't care if the Word (The bible) was fabricated, she wouldn't stop believing in God.
So Believers gives us a hard time, making us seemed to be the bad guys. But when you confront them with truth, they don't live up to the standards they accuse you of lacking.
I see cognitive dissonance & Hypocrisy at work
Just wait for the fake alien invasion of 2030.
Yes! Great example. Its all too common unfortunately. Thanks for watching!
Someone once told me I was worse than Hitler, because I didn't believe in her god.
In my opinion, believing in God is different from believing in the Bible God or any man-made religion God. Frankly I do believe in a god. I can’t tell you what that god is but I can tell you it isn’t in the Bible or in any man-made religion. But I certainly do understand and get true atheism. Atheism trumps the Bible, man-made religion god any day of the week.
@@MrCanis4 😂😂😂. They are already living in a Hitler “hell” by believing in the Bible god. At least you can live a life without a mythical figure.
I was a former born in Jehovah’s Witness. I thought I had the wrong Jesus and did a deep dive into the early church fathers and their writings. I left the cult and joined a mainstream church. I saw so much unchristian behavior mostly on a political scale within the church that I started to doubt. I then came across Bart Ehrman, The book God an Anatomy and the MythVision channel on TH-cam, now your channel. The genie can never be put back in the bottle I am done with religion!
Brandon I must admit your videos are like balm to my soul still weary after years of christian gaslighting back in childhood, with those arguments like "you are just too spoiled by nature to see the deep meaning behind all this, but, you know, those Church fathers, they proved the Scripture to be true by making their hearts pure".
So relieving to hear these exact issues addressed, almost the way I used to but expressed with much more consistency than I ever could.
Also interesting how tightly my experience intersects with yours and of many people in the comments, despite me having grown in Russian Orthodox Tradition. And guess what, the mildest thing I was told of Western churches was "heresy".
Glad I ditched this view years ago but turns out deconversion doesn't happen all at once, so yeah, thank you for your great effort
Appreciate that! And yes, its truly fascinating how much of us have felt the same things and had the same experiences
@dale2156 welcome! This is a great channel !!
When this happens to me in science and engineering and I think of an idea or see an issue that's obvious, I gain deeper understanding in learning why it wouldn't work or what the reason is.
I’ve found that when Christian’s ask “why do you feel the need to rebut my religious perspective”, many times it comes from a place of fear. The fear that they’re wrong.
Atheists, of course, are fearless. They have no fear whatsoever.
@@hrvatskinoahid1048 There is a clear difference here:
Christians fear, that their invested belief is wrong and thus all the time they spent praying and talking with themselves was in vain. They follow the sunk cost fallacy and cling onto their belief, even if much evidence points to the bible not being the work of an omniscient being.
Atheists also fear many of the same things as Christians do (losing loved ones, death, violence, war), but they normally aren't afraid of losing an invested belief when discussing religion.
The need arises from the damage religion does. Christianity, in particular, is founded on belief. Believing is the highest achievement. This encourages wishful thinking and leads to the idea that belief justifies. For example, if you really believe that something is supposed to be yours, you are entitled to take it any way you can. You only have to believe. You only have to convince yourself.
Hey Brandon, I just want to mention how much I appreciate the work that you're doing with this channel because I've honestly been having a really hard time for the past 2 months or so when it comes to my feelings on religion
Recently, I decided to tell my parents the truth about how I felt with my unbelief in God and that I'm not planning to go to church anymore, and... they made it really clear that they now want nothing else to do with me. So now I have to move out of the house while dealing with the fact that they've been avoiding me ever since I told them
It really sucks, but I just couldn't keep lying to myself about how I felt towards this religion. So I really appreciate you trying to help people in my position because it honestly helps way more than you might think
best to you! That's awful about your family but now you are free to discover life, beliefs, goals, new relationships based on who you are, not on what others tell you that you are supposed to be. Hope I'm not over-stepping here, I just feel so bad for what you are going through.
Man, i am so so sorry to hear about your family. It angers me so much that the real love we have in our life is willing to throw it away for a fake god. Theres much ahead thats so good, but again i hate that its going this way for you.
@DevanteWilliams
I just wanted to say firstly, I am sorry to know that you are going through such a difficult time, I hope that in the future you'll be able to have some relationship with your family, should that be what you want and is best for you.
Secondly, I wanted to say that though this may be small comfort if any to you at the moment, you should know that by sharing this, here, you _will_ help an atheist who has never been religious, be less ignorant, (and less of an ass, possibly) and maybe be the catalyst for them to get involved with or support those who help people such as yourself, who are leaving religion, or struggling with their ideologies.
Finally, it is precisely because of channels like this and responses from people like yourself, that I eventually stopped being an unforgivably judgemental, arrogant in my ignorance, utter ass, about how I thought about and viewed religious people. (Non professional apologists that is)
I was considerably younger at the height of my most obnoxiously smug opinion, and unbelievably ignorant about the culture, indoctrination, social factors, the existence of apologetics, the effect of regular church attendance on people.. you name it. I was especially inconsiderate of the potentially traumatizing experience of losing belief and the possible consequent relationship damage.
I have learned a lot over the past 25 or so years, mostly because people like you speak out about your experiences. For what that's worth, I hope it does help.
I sincerely wish you the best, and an sorry that this is such a difficult time.
what a beautiful response@@Petticca
EVIL YWH, Spawn DUPES. WHAT LOVE
You are certainly making a difference! This argument (cowardly dodge) always bugs me, cause they'll never criticize upstart apologetics channels this way. "Oh the church fathers already proved it, who needs your voice, why are you special?" Your voice is important, I was an atheist already when I found your channel, but I still watch because of your frequent and effortful content. Just like the channels i found first that helped me through my deconversion. ❤
Thank you so much and what a great point about how this is never said to new apologists!
This is a very interesting point to raise. I myself am coming from having held polytheistic beliefs for over 40 years, while never having held Judeo Christian beliefs. It was only after figuring out how susceptible my beliefs made me to fallacious arguments and how they constantly encouraged me to use thought stopping techniques to avoid analyzing why I believed what I did. At the same time I grew up in the midst of fundamental Christian purity culture which I have since realized imposed a great deal of harmful beliefs and behaviors as well.
Only after realizing that I had a need to evaluate my beliefs and test how well they held up logically, did I even begin to understand how thoroughly Christian beliefs impacted my own. I have had to deconstruct nearly as many Christian beliefs as I have polytheists ones. So for me I think it is even more apparent how harmful many of these ideas are to society.
I am rather curious as to how and why you deconstructed from polytheism. That's a subject I don't know much about. Arguments for polytheism are pretty hard to come by. I'd like to know what the case for polytheism is, as it seems to be historically more common than monotheism.
My beliefs used to be something like polytheistic panentheism and I found that same problem with believing fallacious arguments (even to the point where I got badly ripped off by a person i should have never done business with). I deconstructed in 2020 as I went to drop some bad habits and learned about neuroscience. There’s definitely not enough pushback against the “spiritual” beliefs when they use the same thought stopping cliches as organized religion. Glad we’re both out of there!
It started as a result of something that came up when I was in Seminary. In one of my classes on ritual design and construction, the instructor had spent several weeks describing the various purposes of each element of a typical wiccan or pagan ritual, which I had been noticing was far more formulaic than I expected. When she began the wrap up summary describing how all of these pieces fit together her phrasing caused me to do a hard stop. She said "In summary, our job as clergy in crafting rituals is to convince the participants that they are interacting with the divine, not with us or each other. They need to truly believe the gods are speaking to them specifically."
I spoke to her after class to ask how this was anything but direct manipulation. She responded by saying that of course it was, but people join covens and other pagan groups because they want to be convinced that this is the case. Therefore it's perfectly justified to create this experience for them.
I found the answer even more appalling than what she said in class and dropped out of Seminary the next day.
@@ElenaAideen oh wow! what an enlightening experience!
Have you developed any good beliefs? I am agnostic so I'm not here to preach at you but I find most "atheists" are far left wing lunatics.
They pick at you because you're having a powerful impact. Keep going. Thank you.
Thanks so much!
Good morning, Brandon. Thanks again for the upload. I sent some of your videos to a Christian friend of mine who is starting to doubt his faith, and he says that he loved the videos and they're making him think.
By the way, I loved the map analogy.
If he doesn't know the Bible he is not a real Christian.
@SecretChessGames Actually, he does know his Bible. That's one of the reasons he's starting to doubt.
Knowing the Bible is one of the reasons I was able to escape from religion. I saw how horrific, vile, mysegenistic, blood-thirsty, immoral, and just downright cruel the God of the Bible is.
Luckily, God is just a myth.
That is wonderful news! So glad to get to be helpful! Thanks!
Lol, hopefully a new customer. 😉😄
@@Johnmhatheist your reply hit home. I left religion but allowed my daughter to go to church with her grandmother. After coming across this channel and being in shock of what the bible actually teaches, I decided to not allow that environment to shape her.
"Do you think that you're the first to notice this? The church has answers to these points."
"No, I don't. Do you think that you're the first one to bring those answers to my attention?"
You are totally helping with your content. Alot of us just need to hear another voice repeating the doubts and questions we already face silently.
Appreciate that and i get that so much. I was the same and now just trying to pay it forward.
A lot
I appreciate your ability to balance compassion and firmness when tackling biblical subjects. Your individual voice matters a whole lot.
Thats very kind. Thank you.
Yes, I like your focus on using the Bible as your tool to show how harmful the religion can be. As a former sword drill champion, it’s amazing to me the things we would ignore or rationalize in the Bible. So to me you add so much in your deep knowledge of the Bible.
Yes, I like your focus on using the Bible as your tool to show how harmful the religion can be. As a former sword drill champion, it’s amazing to me the things we would ignore or rationalize in the Bible. So to me you add so much in your deep knowledge of the Bible.
How we communicate and obtain information also changes. Fewer people look to libraries for answers or even do in-depth internet research actually checking the validity of sources. What you do, Brandon, reaches people who otherwise may never encounter the questions you bring up.
"mortal men making mortal guesses" still going on today which is why these points need to be constantly examined and re-addressed.
Brandon doesn't just offer another voice presenting the same old. His research is terrific, he doesn't make claims unless he can support them, his delivery style is smooth and audience friendly, he invites rather than mocks, he understands why people believe what they do, how difficult it is to break away, and how painful it is to recover because he's been through it. And so much more! Not all voices are the same, not all perspectives are the same. Thank you for all the work, Brandon, and for putting up with criticism!
Maggie! Just too kind and so very thoughtful. I appreciate this encouragement from you so much!
I wish these channels were available to me a long time ago when I was starting to leave religion. It would have been easier. I always appreciate your information and your way of getting that across, as well as the support and sometimes new perspectives. This was a taboo subject that I wasn't able to discuss with most people and most nonbelievers had to hide. It's still not as simple, especially with family members but I have more courage and knowledge now. Thank you very much for being here.
So very glad to help. Thank you!
You are doing a wonderful job, Brandon. Helping people overcome their childhood brainwashing. It's child abuse filling little kids head with silly religious nonsense. But you know all about that.
I really appreciate that you talk about the "church fathers" as an ex-Protestant Christian! So many fellow Protestants say "huh? who??" when you mention anyone from before about 1300, or even 1500.
I try to be as knowledgeable as i can about what i don’t believe. Thank you.
Brandon, your voice is unique and there really aren't that many channels that promote logic and reason. There are way more Christian and Catholic showings. You are very honest in your presentations. We do need your thoughts!
Appreciate that very much!
Brandon, you may not be the first, but you certainly are the best. Your way of analyzing and explaining things is superb and unique. Those who negatively criticize you do so because they are either too lazy to think or too afraid to lose their money-making source, that is their followers.
Keep up the great work and never give up!
Far too kind, but thank you!
10:15 to 10:31
Agreed !!
salvation is when the believer exchanges their personal responsibility for their own benefit
Thanks for watching
THAT IS A VERY GOOD COMMENT.AS A ROMAN Catholic my friend your point is well made.Lorenzo
Thank you for being exhaustive like this and not addressing only the classical subjects of counter-apologetics. Your work is singular, important, and needed.
Very glad to hear. Thanks!
Ah, shutting you up by shaming you ploy. I recall asking a Retreat Master "How can I know there is a god"" and was met with "How can I know there is air in this room" Laughter, "How can I know..." and so on, more laughter. Did not settle my mind, told me, He doesn't know either and I better not ask any more. But I did and here I am today. Great vid.
Ha. Thank you!
Keep asking questions, eventually fallacies of all kinds start popping up everywhere until the entire concept just becomes untenable anymore
Stories like this make my skin crawl, its disgusting shaming someone for asking questions!
@@Lestat1349 I think the Belief is so fragile that any question shakes the foundation, is to be feared, fought against and kill the messenger.
@@scrider5493 I agree, in the book I am reading they also bring up that a lot of people in HCR (high controlling religion) are terrified of the change and control others not of a need to control but from a deep need to feel safe. It does not make it right but at least it gives some ounce of understanding to something that is abhorrent
If folks are saying that it's just to discourage you and shut you up. Keep talking. Keep revealing. I didn't get out until I was almost 40. I wish I could have heard someone like you when I was young. To be trapped in ANY religion and to believe there is a god, is a sad thing. The argument against god is quick, foolproof, and unbeatable, yet the religious will not think. It DOES take someone saying the right thing that starts the doubt and slowly leads to truth. KEEP IT UP!
Well said. Clear, concise…these ideas are simple and easy to follow, unlike the philosophical gymnastics that Christian apologists throw out there.
Glad to hear it. Thanks for watching!
“Look, loads of people have had these same concerns, and we still have no suitable answers.”
My favorite quote from Tertullian is, "The Son of God died; just because it is absurd, it is to be believed: and He was buried and rose again; it is certain, because it is impossible." So here's an early church theologian explicitly acknowledging that there's an inverse relationship between faith and evidence. I don't think I've ever heard a better definition of faith: belief that is not only evidence-free, but contrary to evidence and reason.
The son of God is Israel according to Exodus 4:22.
great. It is absurd that a huge rock has a goddess. Thus, Artemis proven.
Tertullian served mankind well :- )
@@hrvatskinoahid1048, it's a stretch to interpret that verse, or any other that references God's son, as if it refers to the Son of God. Even if it does, what does your reply have to do with my comment?
Several years ago, I read a fascinating article about various neuro-ailments that cast doubts about wether souls could exist. There was this split brain syndrome, but it also engaged about the "rogue hand" syndrome, extreme short memory loss that basically resets someone's life, etc. I'd love to find it again. It was online. If someone sees this and knows, please share !
Hi, Brandon. I just subscribed! I also enjoyed watching this video. When you were talking about the Church Fathers, I couldn’t help but be amused. So much for the idea of biblical inerrancy, when it’s obvious that these guys were making it up as they went and could not agree with each other. *gasp* It’s as if people throughout history influenced Christianity with their own opinions! Anyways, I can’t wait for more uploads from you!
Too kind! Thanks so much for joining and yes love your thoughts here. Hope you enjoy the rest of my stuff.
Well YOU are the only one that has helped me the most. Maybe it's because you went through it...but mostly because your process is so well explained and real and I can relate it to my own thoughts. I think the people who write comments to you like this one are the people whom you have frightened.
Appreciate that and so glad you have found the channel beneficial. Thank you!
Mindshift is a thinking place. You damn right Brandon! I’m listening!!
Appreciate that, thanks for being here!
Thank you so much for this video. I don't encounter many apologists in my daily life, but I've seen the videos. It's good to remember that ultimately, it comes down to gatekeeping. "My form of Christianity is the ONLY right one, and STFU" doesn't help anyone.
Ah thats a good point!
A while ago I was in a chat room with half a dozen self identified Christians and I asked who believed in Original Sin. Four of them promptly replied saying they didn’t believe in it. They didn’t want to expand upon that and ignored the fact that Original sin is a central tenant to most Christian theology’s.
Thank you for your help. The education on things my pastors would not discuss with me about the bible is important. It has really helped me cope with an atheistic realization.
Much of Christian apologetics is just someone pointing out an obviously terrible thing, and then the apologist just talking for a long time hoping that if they string enough words together that the person who pointed it out will just magically forget.
You DO provide an ESSENTIAL resource for those of us who had doubts, saw the illogic of it all, and in my case, left the faith, but still felt like "am I the only one who feels like this? Who sees all these issues?" And after finding your program and some others, it was SOOO encouraging to find out I was NOT alone in those thoughts and realizations. So THANK YOU for your knowledge and calm, logical approach to this very crucial and personal, integral issue to human lives. You help doubters see the validity of their doubts, and confirm those of us who did walk away that we did so for valid and logical reasons.
I think you have a great temperament, and balance very well between being assertive and direct, but also understanding, calm and well-reasoned. I think there is an important space for many different attitudes snd approaches, like some of the really gentle and soft Atheists who approach Christian conversations, I'm thinking Alex O'Connor and Genetically modified skeptic in this group, and there's a place for the most 'harsh' such as Dilahunty and Hitchens. And of course more in between such as Dan Barker and Forrest Valkai.
Also wanted to mention I think it's a great strategy that you are super consistent about when you upload videos.
Thanks for all the feedback. Love to be considered in that sweet spot between those amazing men you listed. Thanks so much!
Brandon, you are an exceptional voice in this space! I'm comfortably deconverted but I always want to learn more, and this channel has been an outstanding source of information. Today's video is no exception!
The references to and reliance on the "church fathers" highlights the incompleteness and inconsistency of this god's feeble attempt at writing a book. If I were an all-knowing god and was going to "inspire" a bunch of folks to write down my teachings, I would have answered a lot more questions a lot more clearly. The church could have avoided a lot of schisms and wars, torture and executions, etc. if their foundational text did a better job of explaining who god is, how salvation works, and other essential topics. The best and worst thing about it is that it's all a myth. The good news is that people won't actually wind up in an eternal lake of fire if they don't believe. On the other hand, millions of people have lived in fear or died because of their beliefs or someone else's. Keep up the great work Brandon!
Thanks for this thoughtful comment, David! Love all that you said and appreciate the kind words too
Brandon, thank you SO much for giving me an in-depth exploration of both theistic and atheistic arguments. I love the Secular Scripture Readings, which have helped me re-re-re-re-RE-view the Bible and see its influence on cultural thought and the numerous flaws and acts of each book’s protagonists and antagonists, if it can be put simply.
I also thank you for a video about non-Christian texts which offer a moral system more grounded than the Bible. I have begun with Marcus Aurelius, “Meditations” and plan to move on to the Baghavad Gita.
Most of all, thank you for the enjoyable Dissecting the Divine videos which focus on the book “God: An Anatomy.” I have been reading the book on my own, and I have just finished “Part 2: Genitals.” It has been an insightful and humorous read.
So, again, thank you for broadening my mind and helping me become more literate on the subjects of reason and faith.
Man thats awesome to hear. Thank you dearly for being so involved in all the content!
As a Christian, I appreciate this type of content and critique of Church history. I like to balance out different topics in Christianity between Christian’s and atheist so I’m very glad I found your channel! 👍
You should give Testify a watch too, a Christian who debated this guy, and Testify has a good spirit.
Appreciate that, thanks!
You‘re not just another voice in this space good buddy, you’re THE up and coming voice of the next generation of atheist counter-apologists. Your USP and greatest strength is that you’re not just another scientist or logician, but that you beat your former creed by using its own internal logic and arguments. As you so often say: all I want is a little consistency. You’re beating the apologist karens on their very own turf: theology, philosophy, but most importantly LITERATURE. So rare to find an intelligent person in this space. And I only feel comfortable telling you this because I know that you’re sincere in your humility. Keep up the good work!
big cheer!
TOUCHÉ! Well done! So many things you said are things I have often thought. Maybe it is the first time for some to hear what you are saying, maybe the person listening is just now in the right place mentally and emotionally to hear what you are saying, maybe you are saying something in just the right way for someone to have an AHA! moment and so much more. Although I am old I just learned in the last few years who Marcion is! I just learned how common virgin births and resurrections were in the Hellenized world, just learned about mystery religions and so much more! Without even knowing it I had lived in a very carefully constructed American Christian bubble! You never know who and when someone is ready to hear what you are saying - just like believers say about the salvation message! Hard to imagine anyone in America not knowing that but it is preached all over the country every single Sunday! 🤦🏼♀️ Keep at it Brandon! ❤️🐷 (I add the pig for my 2 pig heart valves 🤣) Have to laugh about it because, what else can I do?!
Right? he was the first to really get trough to me and that has changed my life, for the better :) wow, you have pig heart valves? that is cool! sorry I am in health care and a bit of a geek when it comes to stuff like that, so know I really mean that i think its cool :)
Lol! Love that, Beegee! Thanks for sharing
Once again thank you for speaking out.
Thanks, Tony!
I was a member of the Orthodox Church for a few years. I think the heavy reliance and trust they put in their church fathers is actually one of the most damning parts of the tradition and those like it.
Yes, it seems to me that most religions, and especially the Abrahamic ones, train us to worship human men. I don't think that's a coincidence, considering, as Seneca said, "Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful."
Well said! There are those who like to think for themselves, and those who just believe what they're told. Even our science-based beliefs and long-held opinions should be reconsidered from time to time. "Keep Thinking" indeed - such an apt close to this video 😊
The thing about science is that (when uncorrupted by the need for money for grants, or corporate bending and shaping), it's *designed* to be questioned and to change when more information is available. And at least in my case, I find it's as handy to review my long-held opinions as it is to not wear the same clothes for a lifetime (I wouldn't fit in my baby clothes very well). The other thing about long-held opinions is that they can be hard to notice, since they've been with us so long-- that's why I come to this channel, and other sources that look at long-held opinions in a new way.
If an issue has come up before that makes it more likely to be relevant, not less.
I'm glad you're here. You and the young lady named Julie (I think she said she was going to take a break) have both addressed the many issues and questions I've always had about "christiantiy" and I was always gaslighted into thinking that somehow I was the one in error.
Kristi Burke?
So glad to help!
Love Kristi. christendumb2 is who woke me. Has EXPOSED THIS EVIL FOR 14 YEARS
Noticed has no new shows. How can anyone with MORALS, BRAINS NOT GO NUTS WITH THIS EVIL PSYCHOS BOOK
@@CaliforniaSurfer-gc2xv Kristi has a break yeah, she posted about it in her community tab on youtube :)
Your channel is so accessible. You do a great job laying out objective information. I binge-watched your Secular Bi le Study. You have helped me deconstruct my faith. I appreciate that you came from a believer background and can contrast the two worldviews.
yes!
christendumb2 has a great shows. HE WOKE ME. in 1 Video. play his videos, His shows about like Brandons. He BOOTED FROM YT
Thank you very much for this, Darlene.
This I know. Your voice, in particular, is vital to me. Your reasons and examples for why these questions and responses still matter, will always matter - on point and fantastic. I'm grateful you work so hard. I appreciate that I am gifted with your clarity and so much emotional intelligence that your responses pierce the utter cacophony of b.s.
Deb. You are always so incredibly kind and supportive. Thank you for your great role here on the channel!
Thank you! Well explained, as always. Well grounded, as always. And: your calm way of putting the content is great, as always.
Thank you very much!
Don’t let the Devil’s minions get you down! Yours are among the most thorough and impacting analyses out there. It was the church father who first showed me 50 years ago just how shallow and made up it all was. Follow that with the story of the Cannon… keep it up!
Thank you much!
I found that it didn't matter what anyone said, what I read, I couldn't give a 'valid' argument or reason for why I believed other than my personal, subjective experience, which nobody could really relate to. There wasn't/isn't any evidence that anything actually happened and nothing in my current life that pointed towards anything supernatural.
Well said!
They always want to silence the opposition. You are especially dangerous to their cause because you not only have your personal experience with religion but you also have a Bible degree from a Christian institution. You give critical thinkers the additional information we crave. Keep it up!
appreciate that!
I just wished for a new video and there it is!! I can't wait. Your videos always make my day!
Lovely to hear, and hope you enjoy. Thank you!
Here’s another perspective on your channel, as an atheist it’s eye opening to understand the way a christian thinks. What is their worldview? What is the lens through which they view reality? I have both my atheist children watching the bible study series to gain an understanding of what that’s all about. This channel isn’t just for those in the process of deconstructing!! So much fascinating content, a real asset to the community!
Thanks so much, Leslie!
It's a great idea to give your kids this perspective on the bible! Because it does affect so many aspects of secular culture, and they're going to run into it: this way, they have a better understanding of its worldview origins.
The audacity and utter lack of self awareness that it takes for any Christian who has heard the same story over and over again from thousands of pastors and denominations, to call you an unnecessary voice in an overcrowded space! There are five different churches in a one block span just on my street.
Haha! This is a very apt point. Thanks!
Funny how God was able to influence the authors of holy scripture to write the perfect word of God, but was seemingly unable to influence the earliest mapmakers to perfectly draw his creation.
You think that convoluted mess of a book is the perfect word of God? 😂😂😂
Lol love it.
You make SO MUCH SENSE… I appreciate everything you post. I think the way you present it is calm, logical, well thought out, no condescension - keep doing what you’re doing!
Big thanks! Will do
Had i not watched your videos about Yahweh i wouldn't have known because truth is i was a xtrian but never read the bible save to follow the church weekly bible reading on a pamphlet. So please they should know your message reached us here in South Africa and set us free from slavery of religion the tithes etc. they must relax and mind their business. Their god should be able to defend himself after all he all knowing and powerful.
Don't mind them Brandon lets keep the ball rolling with the learnings ❤💪🏽 Kudos to you coach
Oh wow! I am honored to be able to help! Thanks for the kind comment.
Oh, I've never heard this argument addressed before nor the claims by them you brought up. Exceptionally good video, very fresh.
Glad to hear it. Thanks!
Hey Brandon! I hope you are well. Please make a video on Paul vs Jesus teachings - I think it would be interesting to see your perspective on it.
Yes, this would be very interesting! I would love to see such a video, too.
On it. Thanks
It kills me. If an apologist thinks a church father already addressed an issue, that apologist is already using that argument! This is an attempt to send someone on a wild goose chase, reading dusty books forever before they are allowed to object.
PREACH IT!! AMEN, BROTHER!!!! You need me (off camera even tho I am still pretty hot at age 62) yelling these things as you talk, "Amen! Preach! Praise the King! Praise His holy name!" This is wonderful, and I like the idea of you talking to/addressing the things these idiots, I mean Christians, say. How cruel they can be! And, I have NEVER thought about the fact that at one time the damned PLOW was state of the art!!!! Wow! I wonder if anyone says that to those morons, I mean religious people. Sorry, I retired early, and I feel I can say anything, and it is WONDERFUL. I always understand if you want to delete.Thanks for this. Joey
Thanks for the love!
Great video! And in continuing my tradition of latching onto something super small: Thank you so, so much for using BCE/CE. I see so many people, even atheists, still using the pretty darn outdated terminology of BC/AD, which was going out of vogue even "way back" in the '90s, as I recall, and while I'm not sure there's much to do about the Christian-centric way we count our years overall (overhauling the system would be no simple task), the least we can do is de-Christianize that little part of it.
(Though maybe my sense of it going out of vogue then was because the main place I encountered the need for such indicators was in Hebrew school, where there would have been a concerted effort to veer away from Christianized language, anyway.)
@@OldNewsIsGoodNewsWell, I read books on archaeology and suchlike, and I've noticed this trend for at least a few decades-- maybe even going back to the 1970s.
@@sundayoliver3147 Thank you! I'm glad it's not just me and that other people were noticing it even before it would have been on my radar (edit: slash, before I was even around for it to be on my radar 😅). #FeelingValidated
You are definitely meeting a need for all the reasons you speak of in this video. I trust your information since you are clearly well read and informed. Keep it up! I don't miss a video and generally listen to them several times.
Thats so lovely. Thanks for the trust and attention!
Great video Brandon! You have definitely helped me verbalize some doubts that I had been suppressing for so long, and it's refreshing to hear actually reasonable thoughts rather than stale, cliche answers from apologists
If church fathers "already handled this," then the Christian should just mention the solution these church fathers actually gave instead of harping on the fact that they did have an answer
(Unless of course the Christian doesn't know that answer)
Ha! Love that. And thanks so much for the nice compliments.
Because they don't know the answer. They've never read any of the church fathers, let alone know anything about them than perhaps their names which they probably got from other apologetic sources. They've never done the deep dive themselves.
IMO it seems to betray an ingrained hierarchical mindset on their behalf. It's like they're saying "They already had an answer, and they're better than you so sit down and shut up". As if smart people are never wrong about anything.
I’ve got to say, after watching atheist channels for the past 5 years, yours is definitely the best. The way that you deliver the information and the way you touch on subjects I haven’t heard before is amazing. I’ve found a lot of comfort in the arguments you make and have never felt so sure that if god is real, the Christian god is not it. That brings the evangelical-raised side of my brain a lot of peace. Keep doing what you’re doing ❤️
Wow! Thank you dearly, Natalie. Thats very kind and really motivating. I am so glad to have been a help.
You're doing good work here! You have helped me! Keep it up.
Appreciate that, Hannah!
Helped you stay lost. Realize there's a reason why you feel confused and upset. Atheism belief system is that of misery claiming the scientific impossibility that nothing created everything and you will ultimately return to that nothing. Where's the hope? Why do you need to be helped to prolong your suffering on earth if it's all futile? I can tell you for a fact it's not. But you need to want to seek the truth instead of seeking after others to confuse and misguided you. Study God's word and use historical context, interlinear version to get the depth of certain words and phrases and idioms and poetic statements and and things meant to be taken literally. See the architectural evidence found that links to the bible. Scientific facts like carbon 14 being in every living thing till it dies and stops absorbing. With a life span of 60k years till it converts 100% due to radioactive decay. Yet we find it in all dinosaur bones which are claimed to be millions of years. Found also in diamonds which is the hardest substance known to man and can not be stained yet supposedly millions of years old and still carbon14 found inside. This universe is dying and going through Entropy which is a law in thermodynamics. Not some theory like evolution which is full of holes. Entropy proves beyond all human reasoning to the contrary that is everything is winding down. Someone wound it up. That someone is known as God. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
Great video Brandon! I’m always amazed how much devotion churches give to the teachings of ancient men who couldn’t possibly be unbiased.
Yes! Exactly
Happy Sunday, Brandon! [Edit: I fixed 6 embarrassing typos]
Your consistently prompt posting of videos at 7am PST, 8am Mountain Time, 9am Central Time, or 10 AM Eastern timea enbles me to listen from my bed!
So, lets not forget that many people ... (? Blank thought, I am going to sleep, have a nice day)
Ha! Ha. Appreciate the early hour listen!
Keep up the great work
Many thanks!
I've never had someone tell me "you think you're the first to notice", but even if someone did...so what? So what if I'm not the first? Isn't that actually worse, that it's been noticed before?
I've said a time or two before that just because the church fathers had an answer doesn't mean they were right in their answer.
Exactly on both!
It’s a great channel. I very much enjoy watching. I hope you keep it going for a long time 👍
Personally, you and Genetically Modified Skeptic are my favorite TH-cam channels for my deconstruction. I think both of you are empathetic and measured. I remember Drew was talking to his ex-Muslim friend, and his friend said channels that mocked and yelled about religion weren't very appealing to him when he began deconstructing. That really resonated with me; I think that's why it took me a few years to begin my own deconstruction.
That being said, sometimes mockery is cathartic. It's been a year since I watched Belief It or Not's video on cool youth pastors, and the part where he goes, "You want kids to think Christian-ly about science?!?!?" rings in my head often, especially when I hear pastors complain about what schools and universities teach.
christendumb2 woke me in 1 video about 20 MIN. He has like 200 hours. He HATES YWH as much as ANYONE.
Thanks so much! I love a lot of Drews content, thats very high praise.
My slide into Atheism was painless. I can't follow a doctrine that denies science.
I don't think it's fair to lump Brandon in with the popular atheist channels because Brandon presents his arguments in a uniquely respectful manner.
I freaking love snarky Brandon, "Be my guest."
Lol!!
For a very long time, the church avoided questions by withholding information. Sermons were in Latin, and literacy rates were low in the Middle Ages. Later, the church fought _hard_ against printing the Bible in local languages and resisted changing how sermons were delivered.
Yup. And killing people who disagreed with the church, and confiscating all of their families' property, kept "belief" alive during that low-literacy time. No wonder they wanted to keep it up, it's how the Vatican got its immense wealth.
YOU were the first voice that actually resonated with me. I have learned so much from you Brandon! I am so, so thankful for this channel 🧡
I look forward to all your videos and they are always filled with sincerity and kindness. Some of the worst comments in any video, no matter the channel or topic, come from christians. I see no victory or growth in these people. And I certainly see nothing that I want to emulate. There is no power behind their belief system. They are some of the most hateful, injurious people I've ever met.
I'm so glad to be free from the belief system, which has allowed me to actually heal. The very thing that Jesus was supposed to do for me, never happened until I kicked him off the throne. Interestingly, so many hurting Christians come to me for help; a non-Christian is who they see filled with love, kindness, and empathy. Their words, not mine.
What a generous and lovely comment. Thanks so much!
Brandon, I really appreciate your perspective - even though I'm a Christian, I find myself saying "yes and amen" to about 80% of what you have to say here. As someone who does say "the Father addressed this", allow me to provide some gentle pushback to that 20%. I agree with you that if a Christian says "the Fathers dealt with this" to shut down discussion, that is illegitimate, lazy, and all the other things you point out in your video. However, when I appeal to the Fathers, it's usually in the context of letting fellow believers know that they are not alone in their questions.
For example, I think a lot about the issue of divine violence, especially in the Tanakh vs New Testament. It turns out Christians have been chewing on that question all the way since at least 165 C.E., with different perspectives, contexts, and contributions to issue (see, for example, C. Hofreiter's book "Making Sense of Old Testament Genocide" which tracks the reception history of the herem passages). To use your analogy of mapmakers, I wouldn't say "the Fathers have already explored this area, don't bother" rather, "if you want to explore this area, you're in good company".
Cheers. - Z
Your channel inspired my channel. My perspective and what I offer is something far less heady and intellectual, but I'm doing a long form reading of the whole Bible to put everything in its context and see if it's still ridiculous. Spoiler alert: it is!
But in the month I've been posting, I've had responses not unlike this in the sense that it's really just designed to bully you, push you down and snuff out any opposition without any thoughtful responses. Another version of that is to recount the gospel message again as if there's power in the concept. You're fighting the good fight! Keep going! :)
imagine if they were telling pastors to get out of the pulpit because they're "not the first" lmao
"You aren't the first person to make that argument."
Then where's your counterarguement? If this was solved hundreds of years ago, what's the answer? Saying someone is incorrect or uninformed without an argument to back it up is the epitome of a dead argument.
Thanks for all the videos! Just found the channel recently, but your content is fun to watch. Don't let the haters get you down!
Appreciate that very much. Thanks for being here.
I think a great series would be a secular look at the theology of early church fathers and how it manifests in the modern day. Kind of like the secular Bible study series.
Agreed! Someone else mentioned this and im excited to tackle it
For me, the urgency of the work you're doing arises from the fact that Christianity in its current incarnation isn't so much a set of metaphysical propositions as it is an activist, political movement, the agenda of which needs to be vigilantly checked by the rest of us, for whom their Bible is just another old book.
Thank you so much for the generous and kind support!
This is the urgency, isn't it? I would have no problem with believers practicing their faiths in ways that don't impact the freedoms of others, but that is not the political reality we live in.
Exactly. That’s the reason we don’t see many channels criticizing minor groups (Baha’is, for example). Because they don’t try to force all of us to conform to their beliefs.
Considered Christianity checked. It's been destroyed by this video. Or hasn't it? What exactly does this video or you do to prevent the growth of God's word? Many have tried and as you do the work of the devil seeking to attack what you claim not to believe in is nothing more than evil. You don't know God but you hate him. You should pray to God and ask him why.
@@Mr.C-Mister Look around. Christians are doing more to "prevent the growth of God's word" than atheists ever could. It wasn't atheists that drove guys like Brandon and me away from belief. It was the abhorrent, contradictory "word of God" and the abhorrent, contradictory actions of the people who claim to act in God's name.
Hey you r doing a great job and will continue to support you here in Africa,don't let them pull you down keep up the good work
Appreciate that!
I never understood why guys a century or three later were "church fathers" and not the disciples who were there at the start.
Right?! It took so many men and hundreds of years to sort out the mess of what jesus said.
The disciples who were there at the start and knew Jesus were illiterate and didn’t leave anything written down. Paul left a few letters but he never met Jesus during his ministry. So the oldest surviving sources gained the status of church fathers.
Just maybe there wasn’t any “there” there to begin with…ie, no Jesus or disciples. I would not assert that, but it could easily be the case. See the minimal mythicist position…
Thanks Brandon for your efforts to challenge the claims of the religious. Your perspective and delivery is different from some others who have become famous "horsemen" on TH-cam, who are promoting skepticism and rational thinking. I welcome any additional light that can be shone upon reason.
Yep. When I was studying to be a minister, I picked up a set of The Early Church Fathers thinking I would be reading some profound deep spiritual insights and inspiration. Soooo disappointing. What a bunch of confused nuts they were. No different than the Christian clown show we see today.
It really is insane the pedestal they are put on. Just tons of guesses, superstitions mandates bias!
I so much appreciate that your willingness to share your perspective on religion. It has been very helpful to me even though I left Christianity 35 years ago. You explain things in a way that makes a lot of sense to me and I especially like the fact that you have researched these matters extensively. Keep up the good work my friend!
Thank you for the encouragement to get out there and engage with both believers and nonbelievers. This is what I have pursued since deconverting 20 years ago. One of the ways I do that is by getting behind your efforts! So glad to help support your channel!! Please keep up the good work! You are equipping the real “saints” and tearing down strongholds against the truth of reason and logic.
Love this! And thanks so much for your great support!
Not so. Rather you are the one building up strongholds in your mind. Pride, prejudices, and speculations will never bring you to the truth. This is turning you away from the truth of the gospel of Jesus Christ towards lies. "For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war according to the flesh. For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds, casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ," (2 Corinthians 10:3-5)
"But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is rightly judged by no one. For “who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct Him?” But we have the mind of Christ." (1 Corinthians 2:14-16)
Blah, blah, blah
You think I don’t know what verses I was referring to…in jest?? Sorry to trample on your sacred text. But they were equally as sacred to me, till I learned the truth behind those texts. Four years of seminary specializing in Greek exegesis and 10 years of pastoring opened my eyes to the lies , contradictions and irrationality that is lurking in plain sight. But you will never see it as long as your more committed to being right than being honest.
@@paganalesociety" Four years of seminary specializing in Greek exegesis and 10 years of pastoring opened my eyes to the lies , contradictions and irrationality..." It does not matter how much experience you had with seminary and pastoring, because it has done you no good. What happened to your love for Jesus?
@@christophergibson7155 at least _we actually study_ and now know that NO truth is in your bible. You discredit every person's valid study and efforts, how *dishonest* you are and a constant troll !!!