2.5 NA Misfire. So much confusion, but the thermal imaging camera came to the rescue!
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Britannica Restorations Ltd
9 Ch. Rawson
Sherbrooke
Quebec
J1M2A3
Canada - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
I'm a Rolls Royce Aero trained Mechanical Engineer with a HND and an MSc in Mechanical Engineering from Warwick University. Worked at LandRover Solihull for about 8 years in the 90's.... I'm on my 3rd LandRover now - I love them. I thoroughly enjoy watching this series of videos - especially the diagnostic process. Keep going please Mike I love it.
Thank you - very kind - it's a pity I am on my own here and no one to bounce ideas off
I loved the bit at 19:30 where you lean on the wing and just stare into the engine bay. We've all done it. Never helps me!
When you arrive at a dead end.... you just stare into the engine bay.
thought the same :-)
chasing a no-start on a 2.5NA diesel in a generator project. Watching all your videos to get ideas. I guess pulling the injectors in my next test.
Make sure the glow plugs are in working order!
Seems to be no fuel from the high pressure pump. It sat outside in the desert for a year without proper weatherproofing. I think there's dirt in the pump innards. :(
So it’s a new set of CAV injectors then Mike... it can’t be anything else now can it, especially after changing them around and moving the problem to number 1 and 2... if nothing else it’s been brilliant watching Mike!!
Well done
Cannot be anything else - I wonder how many have had a similar issue?
Britannica Restorations Ltd I did after my brother sucked water into the air intake in the mountains of wales, it sounded like yours but not quite as bad, I think he bent a con rod slightly... it wasn’t ever a problem and we carried on running the engine until we put a good TD into it..
Keep um coming Mike, it’s more entertaining than the shit we get on our TVs in the UK!!!
Got there in the end! i am not a mechanic but love the thought process you went through in all the videos in diagnosing the problem. Make sure we see the new ones being fitted and with the old girl running sweet!
Funny how you can capture a 'light bulb' moment on camera!
Pleased I could film and slow down the replay to see the injectors firing - or not!
Like a good old episode of Scooby Doo, "I'd have got away with a smooth running engine if it weren't for you meddling injectors" Glad you got to the bottom of it 👍
best reply yet!
Mike
@@BritannicaRestorations hi Mike i am trying to tighten my crankshaft pulley bolt up .put into first gear locked diff put into low rang put handbrake on but i can still turn pulley round. eany way to lock the camshaft thanks
Mike your the Sherlock of the Landie diesel just proves that original parts work better ! I applaud your patience
Haha, well at the beginning of the 2.5n/a I said my 2.5td sounded identical at idle.Guess I learned quite a few ways of diagnosing my own engine, much appreciated. I'll be outside now, touching my manifold. (Ooh err missus)
Careful now!
Love your videos, greetings from Portugal 👍👍👍
Well done mike! So pleased you got there in the end! Great work!
Wow! Great video -- better than those detective dramas on TV! And thanks for the shout-out on the odd weight wrist pin story! PS: A 'display' vehicle? Really? What's that about?
I was told it is going ot a military museum in Ontario
Glad you found the issue and sorted it. Well my 2.25 is also having the same issue , first I need to get the AC pump issue sorted and I will diagnose the same way you did ... thanks a lot mike
A/C on a 2.25? Is that not draining the power?
Absolutely love these videos and I am not really even a Land Rover fan !!
The point is learning how to diagnose and fix things yourself - welcome aboard!
Mike
Great channel ..I always .measure the spill off and compare volume of each injector! Have the snapon thermal image camera .its awesome as a diagnostic tool ! Have found bad relays and all sorts with that tool !
that was really a great video, Mike.
Was an eye opener eh?
I spent 40 years as a psv/hgv fitter and wasted countless hours messing with so-called overhauled injectors. Now I’ve retired I run a series petrol🤔
Regards from North Yorkshire. Jez.
Great videos Mike, you seem to have that Fred Dibnah quality keep it up 👍
Well done !
That was interesting wasn't it? Who would have thought 2 new injectors bad?
I've had it happen with my Ford once .
And what a complete pain in the ass it was .
I spent 3 days on it .
Finally said screw it , pull and bench tested them. I was shocked to see just how bad they were
Again . All were " new " in the box
When overhauling injectors in the marine industry, we used a special injector testing fluid to pop test them that left them full of this fluid for storage. We found leaving injectors stored with diesel in them would cause problems, usually the delivery valves sticking. Also we denso taped up the nozzles and nipples to keep air out. Those "new" injectors may have been on the shelf a while. We also ran engines on this fluid that were to be mothballed to remove diesel from their fuel systems.
Funny how 2 CAV ones were fine but the no name were faulty
Well done Mike. You got there in the end. I'm glad that it is not a cracked crank or camshaft, I have seen them cracked at an angle inside the main bearing so they were still being driven, but what a mess they were. Thanks for the tutorial, it was great. At one point I thought that you would don a dear hunter hat like Sherlock Holmes. SOoooo!!!!! what's next Mike, I can't wait for it. Best wishes from Yorkshire Rob.
Just shows you how you can get thrown off a problem by finding a solution that is a problem in itself!
Cheers Rob!
Mike
Lol mike this vehicle would have a polish diesel system once your done. Lol polishing cleaning blowing, testing...
Can’t wait to find out the issue is, mines the same just not quite as bad
2 of the replacement injectors were not preforming
Well done mike
Thanks
Mike
We don't need Netflix any more ... Mike you really do / did a great series here on that and this one with your ideas on 'debugging' really cool - learned a lot on looking on an other new way to think - Cheers Axel
Thanks Axel!
What a journey!
Nice problem solving process there Mike, love the videos - looking to getting my first Defender. Got my eye on a 150k mile 2001 90 TD5 ... high miles - yay or nay?
Along as it is not rotten, motors and mechanics are cheaper to fix than rust !
I was hoping you would show us how you went on after you put it all back together..
I know it is a long time since but I am very interested in this 2.5 engine...
th-cam.com/video/x-v0GPD88Ew/w-d-xo.html
I did say in the last vid it still had to be a pump or injector problem to my way of thinking, now do I win a prize? lol Well done matey, that thermal camera saved you a whole lot more grief for no return so be nice to it an give it a jolly good clean :D
I should have checked with the camera right off - lesson learned - and no more no name parts!
Hi mike, had a very similar prob with my n/a was running ‘odd’ at tick over but ok undone drive load, but since gearbox incident, apparently it’s not good to be in two gears as you lift clutch, well not at 50mph on the M6, we stripped engine out as was easy and ripped the head odff and found that gasket had blown between all cylinders as well as to the valve chest, I have now fitted a 19j and a hybrid lt77 gearbox, v8 versions have better bearings, my ex military also fitted with a cyclone crank case oil system that I have transferred onto the newer engine, Kind Regards, phil
Hope it all works out!
'HERE WE GO.....'
Just watched your vid, dont know if it helps but the 19j had two different injectors listed years ago, both CAV so my guess is they were just set up differently, I dont know if it crosses over to the N/A, also a pop tester might be a good investment to diagnose injectors, make sure the pressure is all equal, the correct pressure should be in the official WSM , even new injectors should be pop tested.
Yes I have a tester and this was not the19J but a NA engine - 2 injectors were not firing properly
Are the intake valves on the cold cylinders opening properly?
It was 2 duff injectors - follow the story!
And yet another cliff hanger. You could write episodes of Coronation Street.
And the moral of the story is, never trust cheap parts from China.
You're damn right there Harvey!
@@BritannicaRestorations Don't get me started on that subject!
Specified nozzles.... BDNO/SPC 6209 or BDNO/SP 6209 Opening pressure 135 Atm
Wishing you good luck from Wales..
Thanks Evan = I will have to get my tester working again and check the 'new' injectors again
I just checked on line
www.dieselcomponentsuk.com/product-page/landrover-2-0l-2-25l-2-5l-injector-nozzles-genuine-dtp-nozzles
Looks like they are German and not too badly priced!
@@BritannicaRestorations The same as in a Standard 23c (Ferguson).. I thought I had a set in the shed.. alas must have used them..
im new to diesel but what was the purpose to unscrewing the injector nuts. to hear the engine die by lack of injection/ misfire or outside spray quantity? i saw and heard changes but not sure what is the purpose as far as diagnosing
Yes to listen to the difference in firing - if the engine drops in speed, then the cylinder is firing right, if not - there is a problem
thats genius
Hi Mike have you done a compression test ?
Bill
When looking for the cause of a fault on any sort of equipment I always quote the following mantra.."There is almost always less to this than meets the eye", very rarely fails...but, the injection system on Land Rover diesels are an absolute bugger..
Here’s the problem I had with mine.! How do I upload a photo?
the high pressure pipes are in good shape? the interiors are not undersize?
Pipes are good originals
oh, I wrote the comment before finish the video, I'm diesel specialist if you want I can show you how to repair these injectors changing the nozzles and calibrate to specs...
Great Videos!
Hi there. Wanted to ask regarding 300tdi injectors. My new set has 210-230 BAR opening per injector. Is this variation too big for your opinion?
That will be primary and secondary injection pressures sounds normal to me
@@BritannicaRestorations That's only the primary injection, can't get to secondary due to the injector open. The range above is the difference between the injectors.
sorry I misunderstood your question - these figures you gave are tested pressures?
@@BritannicaRestorations yep. I've ordered 4 new injectors and pressure tested them before installation. With my tool I could check only the first opening. All injectors opened between 210-230 BAR.
Who's make of injectors Bosch or Chinese?
You are the Fred Dibnah of the Landrover scene my friend. You have squared the circle on this condundrum.
Imagine the time and effort you'd be going in if you'd taken the deep dive into stripping down to the camshaft etc?!
Yeap - something that was already 'checked' can throw you off
Hey mike is that a standard 2.5 na radiator?
Yes I think so - has an oil cooler built in
Well what are the chances of that? You should have a crack at the lottery😂
Glad you got to the bottom of it👍👍👍
Indeed quite a fluke!
Issue solved, all hail to the power and knowledge of the mighty magic Mike 👍.
But you can even do a rubic cube 😂🤣😂😳
Laters
Johnny the Broadstairs Hoveller
Thanks Johnny!
Are the pre combustion chambers in backwards?
only fit one way
Can somone tell me what compression a 200tdi should have? 3 zylinder have over 25 bar one only 13 :/ i think i have a problem
Should be about 24 bar - looks like you have a problem!
I dont think its pistons... I think the cam shaft is cracked either on the shaft or across a cam lobe. The piston is being driven by the engine's crank sometimes - but not always.
Has anyone got recommendations for a 1998 300tdi 130 shock replacements
Old Man Emu are pretty good
That thermal imaging gizmo looks the bees knees mate. Thought it would be a clunker of a device but handy-dandy smart phone sized get's err done!
Not the cheapest but works very well
Nice watch. Don't scratch it ;)
Working watch tough as old boots!
Mike have a large J never mind the sherry!!!!!!
Try doing these diagnostics with a common rail🙄 And who threw that washer at 23:22 🤣lol
Problems like this are sent to test us. And it can be a real bugger when components kinda work. A bit like an intermittent fault, much easier to fix when it stops working altogether. Luckily this was just an observation for us watching. The real pisser is it kinda proves not to cut corners when it comes to even old diesel engines. Injectors need to be in tip top condition. 90% turns out not to be good enough. I would also question whether or not your local diesel shop is actually experienced with old school diesel stuff. I know lots of skills have been lost in my local Bosch Diesel dealership locally and with only 1 old timer with knowledge and skills to do the old stuff. These days repairs are so expensive it just doesn't happen.
I know it is best to put new genuine parts on all the time, but 4 genuine injectors are $1600 inc shipping
New pumps are $3000!
The engine is not worth it
Bugger bugger l was hoping l was get it right and win a trip to Canada to meet them Racoons,hmm let's have another challenge like that with you next job.
Think I have had enough challenges like this for a long while!
Greg Palmer 😂 yeah it’s better than any murder mystery
It's like the old woman that swallowed a fly lol , sender unit in tank ? How's the oil breather?could be water in the fuel filter?
All changed and clean
@@BritannicaRestorations hmmm headscratcher ,if only there's a way to check cylinder pressure while running?guessing something to do with the shaft that has ovalized?maybe it was a heavy air drop that caused this or maybe it needs another!!!
Deficating dog syndrome bhahahhahaha
The injector on no1, may partially blocked or not working right?
Not working properly - brand new out of the box
@@BritannicaRestorations Are the tolerances out of whack? Maybe not the right internal measurements?
🇮🇪👍👍👍💕👋🌷
Would you believe it!
Nope!
BATUS redtop?
Yes
Looks to me not enough pressure coming from the pump Mike
Plenty of pressure as C1 was firing but when swapped with C4 injector which was running cold - that went cold too, but then C1 injector on C4 worked fine
Head gasket blown between no 3 and 4
It was bad injectors
Hello can I please stress DO NOT put you’re fingers or hands in front of the injectors as appears in this video!!!. It’s dangerous as the spray can sever a finger completely off (happened to a friend). Read the manual it clearly says this .
This has to be the funniest thing I have heard in 40 years of diesel fitting - have you photos of the severed finger?
""NEW""" injectors does not mean they work, nor are matched as a set.
gotta be cracked pistons maybe between the piston rings
nope