Great video as always Adam. I had wondered about this myself. Currently waiting for a delivery date for my M3 LR so this video has put my mind at ease in regards to not missing out on getting a used model S. Like you said, the agility and size for the UK is much more practical plus the charging speed advantages. If I ever get a MX as a courtesy car I'll give you a shout ;)
Hi Sam, awesome glad I've helped! That would be great. I don't intend on having to go back for a courtesy car any time soon, so if you get an X you know where to find me haha.
A big selling point for me is that a 2015 model S can come with free lifetime supercharging if buying from a third party. Going from ICE to free supercharging will be a significant cost saving .
For god’s sake please do not use free supercharging as a perk. When you factor in the higher cost to insure and higher registration fees, whatever savings you get are essentially brought to 0!
It’s different in different countries. Here in the Netherlands there are no registration fees for EV’s and the new 3 costs more to insure than the used S because the replacement cost is higher. I bought a used S with lifetime free supercharging for less than half the price of a new 3. While I do find the S a bit annoyingly large I’m getting used to it and that size translates into an incredible amount of utility to carry things and people.
Before comment full disclosure - I have a used 2014 P85 model S - personally I have found it an absolute joy, lots of motorway cruising, can get 220 miles even on very cold days. I am not sure I agree with your dash comments as find the S so much better than 3 for having two sat nav displays (main journey and in front local) Yes older models have less of the access to TH-cam etc. but can upgrade ~£1500 I believe to get that. Prefer having a few more buttons on steering than the the 3 having to go through menus for everything. Make sure if purchase a used model S it has already had the CCS conversion done, otherwise can't use the newer v3 supercharger sites like Flint and won't appear on the sat nav until conversion done anyway, not a big cost to get this done but saves a few pound.
Hi Amy, thank you for your comment. I welcome you having a different opinion on this, just how I felt after being used to the model 3. Tesla kept the two screens for the new S and X and they know alot more about what customers want then me 😄 220 miles on a cold day from a 2014 model s that is pretty impressive 👏 How has the maintenance been for it? Do you like the look of the new model s?
@@AdamWellinformed really not a fan of the yoke steering wheel on the new model. Maintenance is really new wiper blades and tyres nothing more. One big reason for an S for me was boot size and opening due to needing to easily transport big boxes etc. so wanted a fully opening back and option for easily fitting a roof rack with the sunroof option on older S's give the option.
I’ve got a M3P and MS. I use creep mode, because it drives like a normal car. The older S doesn’t have regen to fully stop and once you stop at the lights and press the brake the Hold mode activates and deactivates once you set off. The 3 and S are very different cars and we use them that way as well. I drive the 3 as our daily and the S on the weekends for a more relaxed drive and for more space and luxury. The key is a real miss for the 3. The phone doesn’t always connect and opening the app to open the boot or frunk is annoying. You are right about the seats. My 3 Performance could really do with more bolstering like in the S. We also have roofracks for the S, which saves about $2000 on a tow hitch.
Hold on accelerator release is a thing I love about my model 3. My only issue is when I drove my wife's Ice car, I have to remember to press the brake at lights. There is a slight learning curve, maybe that's why they had creep on.
The purpose of the Creep mode is to mimic automatic transmission behavior - when you release the break pedal, car with automatic transmission starts moving slowly into selected direction while engine is idling.
Great video mate. I bought the same Tesla P90D 2015 (white) with all the options (ludicrous and MCU 2 upgrade included) for £36,700 from Tesla this year. I checked online and used Model 3s barely come in around that price now. I think it's time for someone to make a "Buy used model 3 vs used model s" comparison. I love my model S it hits the sweet spot in terms of practicality, space, speed and luxury. The shape of it is amazing! I do sometimes get sub 300 wh/mi but to get that consistently I will need to swap my 21 inch Turbine wheels down to some lightweight 19 inch wheels. It gets up to 30 miles more range on smaller wheels which is pretty significant.
I had a second outing in a used model S a few months back, and I must say it was very desirable. The suspension was awesome. Took me a while to realise there was a dedicated wiper stalk 😂 The boot is bigger. So yeah, it really is an amazing car. I suspect MCU2 and CCS upgrades are essential for all used Model S purchases
@@AdamWellinformed haha yeah the model S is a great gateway between an ice car and a Tesla 😂👍 very stalk friendly. I'm glad you enjoyed the experience the 2nd time too. Ah yes I forgot about the CCS upgrade it's already come in handy. Tesla gave me an extra adapter I don't think they saw the original one in the glove box 😂👍 might be worth something lol.
@@Andersljungberg look for any Model S pre 2019 with "MCU2" upgrade or "infotainment upgrade" in the description and you'll know for sure it can do Netflix, TH-cam, apple music, extra games etc. Luckily the previous owner of mine had it done 😁👍
The pre facelift vs new m3 is a tea vs coffee comparison. The 2017 MS with autopilot 2 and all the cameras would be the fair comparison. I got a 2016 facelift MS with free supercharger. Which is the best thing imo expect those few late 2016 models with autopilot 2.0 and free supercharging for life!
Somethings not right here. I have the same Model S P90DL as reviewed here. Creep mode WILL NOT ROLL back. I suspect that creep mode was turned off at that time the reviewer used it. Also, hold mode is there as standard. When you come to a stop you apply the slightest bit more pressure to the brake pedal and the car will hold. Also, with ludicrous, 0-60 is 2.6-2.8 seconds.
@@AdamWellinformed efficiency wise, comparing the 762bhp P90D to the 299bhp SR+ was always gonna be a loss to the MS but mid 300’s was quite high I think. I usually manage mid 200 wh/km on a long motorway journey. Also, if you hold the scroll wheel on the steering wheel you can flick between the options and it will display you useable data on the dashboard such as efficiency since last charge, trip and all time.
Very well put together video. Thak you. I'm in the US. I need room to carry my aging parents and the 3 just won't do. The Y is a good size but I like to drive lower to the ground. So Model S is it for me. However not excited about the price for a new, so a slightly used 2020 or 2021 is on my shopping radar. My GF drives a model 3. It is a fabulous car.😊
I hear car testers and others complaining about wind noise in the Tesla 3 but I don't hear that complaint regarding the Tesla S . You can raise the Tesla S, it can be good if you have to drive over high curbs or maybe drive on a forest road or dirt road. you don't have to worry as much about something hitting the battery? Because Tesla's 3 is quite low above the ground, isn't it? and the Tesla S has air suspension Better comfort in the suspension that's the picture I got
Thanks for this review of the used Model S compared to a new Model 3; very thorough comparison - especially the efficiency differences. The Model S - 2015 - has aged quite well. Thanks again!
No problem James. It has aged well indeed. It'll go down as a classic in time. In theory its success ultimately funded the model 3. The new Model S is a complete different breed 👍
Thank you Adam. That was very interesting. Of course you could only work with the S loaner supplied. I would really like to hear a comparison between say a 2017 or 2018 S75D and a new 3 or, most relevant for me, a new Model Y. The S is just so stunning looking but.......
Hi Brendan, I had another model s loaner about a month ago, and I thoroughly enjoyed that one. Was a bit newer maybe a 2018 plate, had the new bumper, but overall the suspension and the drive was just phenomenal 👍 Have you ordered a Y
We talking about the model 3 here? If so, you’ll get a 4 year warranty on the car and 8 year warranty on the battery and powertrain subject to mileage limits. If it lives up to be a robotaxi then the tech has to work reliably all of the time. With the cost of the car, I suspect they can incorporate better design solutions and components then your everyday phone tech. If you want a more hands-on and experienced led response here I’d definitely seek a high mileage tesla review for that 👍
Very simple answer. Don't buy any older Tesla Model that is out of warranty, period. My experience with the Model S out of warranty is everything will break and Tesla charges $185/hr for labor alone.
But it might even out financially if you get to charge the car for free And if you also bought the car cheaply. There is apparently a Tesla S in Germany that has gone 1 million miles
Keep in mind that the model s is on much bigger and heavier 21" wheels vs much smaller/lighter and thus more range friendly 18" wheels. A closer comparison would be the model s on 19" wheels.
@@AdamWellinformed my experience with my 2015 Model S 85D is about 10% difference between 245/35-21 and 245/45-19 during summer and about 15% during winters (on winter tires). With staggered turbines with 265/35-21 in the back the difference is maybe up to 15% during summer. If you project those percentages to the P90D you can estimate the efficiency on 19s. But P90D also comes with slightly less efficient rear performance motor compared to my 85 D.
In 2023, this is my dilema, I'm realised working home during the pandemic that an EV would be great in my drive way but being an older citizen in AU my strong preference is to have a dash screen so it is the model S for me over the model 3. But as you stated, for less money, I could get a new model 3 over a 4 -5 year old model S but it for me, a case of saving my money to have the funds for the best used model I can get.
Hi Llamapup, that makes sense but I definitely had that backwards sensation. Just looked up creep mode on google and if there is a slight incline it will actually move forwards to help, but it also looks like there is maybe an incline limit where it stops. All I can say is I'm team HOLD 😂
The dashboard in Model 3 is horrible. It looks like a counter top in a kitchen and missing gauges cluster in front of the steering wheel is even dangerous, as a driver needs to move his eyes from road to the central console to get basic information like speed and check lights. Model S has a proper dashboard with gauges cluster and it feels like a real car in comparison to toy-like interior of Model 3.
I'm in this dilemma now, coming from a Ioniq 28kWh I need to fit my surfboard inside and ideally a roof rack. I'm leaning more to the S with a £25k budget. Great video and thanks for your perspective.
Only Tesla sell brand new vehicles. There are no discounts available for Teslas, everyone pays the same price. They sell directly and do not have a dealership/franchise model. Apart from used car sales, I think the only way a third party would sell a Tesla is via a lease format. Hope that helps.
Nice video, never been interested in an EV until now I see these Tesla s prices looking decent value now. The S looks a nice car in some good colours. That 3 model just looks awful. How are the batteries holding out and what is this lifetime charging deal is it easy to find a charger that is free for them?
Thank you Tommy. There is some official fleet data on the battery degradation at 200,000 miles, on the tesla impact report 2022. I did a quick video summary on my channel not to long ago. Memory says its 90% to high eighties after 200,000 miles. Lifetime charging, is free tesla supercharging. It is not impossible to find but it was a limited promotion ran up to a certain year. Some of the lifetime charging stays with the car and some was limited to one owner only. So be careful with that one. If you can home charge, thats where you will charge the most generally. Its just convenient to get cheap overnight charging that way. All the best 👍
@@AdamWellinformed Thanks, just called Tesla and would have to use a supercharger they said and the closest one is a 50 mile round trip so not practical. The Tesla s is looking good value now with the free charging but I put 80quid in a 640d and have power driving how I like and use all the power consuming extras and get 600miles range with a better build quality. But can see these Tesla s models being peanuts along with other older EV's in a couple of more years.
No worries, they are increasing supercharging stations locations rapidly so if you need to rely on supercharging,the economics may change pretty quickly. All the best
new model 3 anytime, are you kidding. why would you buy outdaded used model s, its stupid, tech and everything is 5 times better in new model 3 than used 2013 model s. in my ipinion it would be totaly insane to get outdated model s, why because i own both and i know
Model 3 looks like a Prius with an open lap top on the dash. And the door handles, yikes. So to answer your question, those are few reasons why I went with the S. MCU2 took care of the tech. Maybe it's style over substance, but I just couldn't get past the look of the 3.
Great video as always Adam. I had wondered about this myself. Currently waiting for a delivery date for my M3 LR so this video has put my mind at ease in regards to not missing out on getting a used model S. Like you said, the agility and size for the UK is much more practical plus the charging speed advantages. If I ever get a MX as a courtesy car I'll give you a shout ;)
Hi Sam, awesome glad I've helped! That would be great. I don't intend on having to go back for a courtesy car any time soon, so if you get an X you know where to find me haha.
A big selling point for me is that a 2015 model S can come with free lifetime supercharging if buying from a third party. Going from ICE to free supercharging will be a significant cost saving .
For god’s sake please do not use free supercharging as a perk. When you factor in the higher cost to insure and higher registration fees, whatever savings you get are essentially brought to 0!
It’s different in different countries. Here in the Netherlands there are no registration fees for EV’s and the new 3 costs more to insure than the used S because the replacement cost is higher. I bought a used S with lifetime free supercharging for less than half the price of a new 3. While I do find the S a bit annoyingly large I’m getting used to it and that size translates into an incredible amount of utility to carry things and people.
Model S every time. No question it's miles better than the 3
Maybe depends on whether you want a more sporty car experience. some say Tesla 3 has sportier driving characteristics
Before comment full disclosure - I have a used 2014 P85 model S - personally I have found it an absolute joy, lots of motorway cruising, can get 220 miles even on very cold days. I am not sure I agree with your dash comments as find the S so much better than 3 for having two sat nav displays (main journey and in front local) Yes older models have less of the access to TH-cam etc. but can upgrade ~£1500 I believe to get that. Prefer having a few more buttons on steering than the the 3 having to go through menus for everything. Make sure if purchase a used model S it has already had the CCS conversion done, otherwise can't use the newer v3 supercharger sites like Flint and won't appear on the sat nav until conversion done anyway, not a big cost to get this done but saves a few pound.
Forgot to say enjoy your video's Adam
Hi Amy, thank you for your comment. I welcome you having a different opinion on this, just how I felt after being used to the model 3. Tesla kept the two screens for the new S and X and they know alot more about what customers want then me 😄 220 miles on a cold day from a 2014 model s that is pretty impressive 👏 How has the maintenance been for it? Do you like the look of the new model s?
@@AdamWellinformed really not a fan of the yoke steering wheel on the new model. Maintenance is really new wiper blades and tyres nothing more. One big reason for an S for me was boot size and opening due to needing to easily transport big boxes etc. so wanted a fully opening back and option for easily fitting a roof rack with the sunroof option on older S's give the option.
Hi Amy how's the Model S coming along? 😃
@@TraderJono good thanks, loving it everyday when step into it. If looking for one, would recommend RSEV if in the UK
I’ve got a M3P and MS. I use creep mode, because it drives like a normal car. The older S doesn’t have regen to fully stop and once you stop at the lights and press the brake the Hold mode activates and deactivates once you set off. The 3 and S are very different cars and we use them that way as well. I drive the 3 as our daily and the S on the weekends for a more relaxed drive and for more space and luxury. The key is a real miss for the 3. The phone doesn’t always connect and opening the app to open the boot or frunk is annoying. You are right about the seats. My 3 Performance could really do with more bolstering like in the S. We also have roofracks for the S, which saves about $2000 on a tow hitch.
Hold on accelerator release is a thing I love about my model 3. My only issue is when I drove my wife's Ice car, I have to remember to press the brake at lights. There is a slight learning curve, maybe that's why they had creep on.
Haha that no re-gen feeling is equally as dangerous 😅
The purpose of the Creep mode is to mimic automatic transmission behavior - when you release the break pedal, car with automatic transmission starts moving slowly into selected direction while engine is idling.
Great video mate. I bought the same Tesla P90D 2015 (white) with all the options (ludicrous and MCU 2 upgrade included) for £36,700 from Tesla this year. I checked online and used Model 3s barely come in around that price now. I think it's time for someone to make a "Buy used model 3 vs used model s" comparison. I love my model S it hits the sweet spot in terms of practicality, space, speed and luxury. The shape of it is amazing! I do sometimes get sub 300 wh/mi but to get that consistently I will need to swap my 21 inch Turbine wheels down to some lightweight 19 inch wheels. It gets up to 30 miles more range on smaller wheels which is pretty significant.
I had a second outing in a used model S a few months back, and I must say it was very desirable. The suspension was awesome. Took me a while to realise there was a dedicated wiper stalk 😂 The boot is bigger. So yeah, it really is an amazing car. I suspect MCU2 and CCS upgrades are essential for all used Model S purchases
@@AdamWellinformed haha yeah the model S is a great gateway between an ice car and a Tesla 😂👍 very stalk friendly.
I'm glad you enjoyed the experience the 2nd time too. Ah yes I forgot about the CCS upgrade it's already come in handy. Tesla gave me an extra adapter I don't think they saw the original one in the glove box 😂👍 might be worth something lol.
Is the info system as modern and is there, for example, TH-cam, Netflix and Apple Music. And I have you Auto pilot
@@AdamWellinformed Shouldn't Tesla S Model Year 2017 and later have it
@@Andersljungberg look for any Model S pre 2019 with "MCU2" upgrade or "infotainment upgrade" in the description and you'll know for sure it can do Netflix, TH-cam, apple music, extra games etc.
Luckily the previous owner of mine had it done 😁👍
The pre facelift vs new m3 is a tea vs coffee comparison. The 2017 MS with autopilot 2 and all the cameras would be the fair comparison. I got a 2016 facelift MS with free supercharger. Which is the best thing imo expect those few late 2016 models with autopilot 2.0 and free supercharging for life!
Agreed
Somethings not right here. I have the same Model S P90DL as reviewed here. Creep mode WILL NOT ROLL back. I suspect that creep mode was turned off at that time the reviewer used it. Also, hold mode is there as standard. When you come to a stop you apply the slightest bit more pressure to the brake pedal and the car will hold. Also, with ludicrous, 0-60 is 2.6-2.8 seconds.
Hi Keith, ye this has been answered in the comments below somewhere 👍
@@AdamWellinformed efficiency wise, comparing the 762bhp P90D to the 299bhp SR+ was always gonna be a loss to the MS but mid 300’s was quite high I think. I usually manage mid 200 wh/km on a long motorway journey.
Also, if you hold the scroll wheel on the steering wheel you can flick between the options and it will display you useable data on the dashboard such as efficiency since last charge, trip and all time.
That’s for making this helpful and informative video
The S is way better looking than the 3 and is a great cruiser. The 3 is very quick and more nimble. Choose your weapon accordingly...
Very well put together video. Thak you.
I'm in the US. I need room to carry my aging parents and the 3 just won't do. The Y is a good size but I like to drive lower to the ground. So Model S is it for me. However not excited about the price for a new, so a slightly used 2020 or 2021 is on my shopping radar. My GF drives a model 3. It is a fabulous car.😊
I hear car testers and others complaining about wind noise in the Tesla 3 but I don't hear that complaint regarding the Tesla S . You can raise the Tesla S, it can be good if you have to drive over high curbs or maybe drive on a forest road or dirt road. you don't have to worry as much about something hitting the battery? Because Tesla's 3 is quite low above the ground, isn't it? and the Tesla S has air suspension Better comfort in the suspension that's the picture I got
Thanks for this review of the used Model S compared to a new Model 3; very thorough comparison - especially the efficiency differences. The Model S - 2015 - has aged quite well. Thanks again!
No problem James. It has aged well indeed. It'll go down as a classic in time. In theory its success ultimately funded the model 3. The new Model S is a complete different breed 👍
Is it still free charging on a Tesla S manufactured before January 15, 2017?
just what i need thanks
Your welcome Garv 👍
Are you saying “summary” or Sun roof? 🤣
Thank you Adam. That was very interesting. Of course you could only work with the S loaner supplied. I would really like to hear a comparison between say a 2017 or 2018 S75D and a new 3 or, most relevant for me, a new Model Y. The S is just so stunning looking but.......
Hi Brendan, I had another model s loaner about a month ago, and I thoroughly enjoyed that one. Was a bit newer maybe a 2018 plate, had the new bumper, but overall the suspension and the drive was just phenomenal 👍 Have you ordered a Y
Do like all the tech except the model 3 is so ugly. My worry is my phones tech isn’t overly reliable so will the tech in my car be reliable?
We talking about the model 3 here? If so, you’ll get a 4 year warranty on the car and 8 year warranty on the battery and powertrain subject to mileage limits. If it lives up to be a robotaxi then the tech has to work reliably all of the time. With the cost of the car, I suspect they can incorporate better design solutions and components then your everyday phone tech. If you want a more hands-on and experienced led response here I’d definitely seek a high mileage tesla review for that 👍
Very simple answer. Don't buy any older Tesla Model that is out of warranty, period. My experience with the Model S out of warranty is everything will break and Tesla charges $185/hr for labor alone.
But it might even out financially if you get to charge the car for free And if you also bought the car cheaply. There is apparently a Tesla S in Germany that has gone 1 million miles
But the warranty says a certain number of miles or number of years and at least when it comes to the battery warranty
Keep in mind that the model s is on much bigger and heavier 21" wheels vs much smaller/lighter and thus more range friendly 18" wheels. A closer comparison would be the model s on 19" wheels.
Hi Chris, yes would interesting to see how well the 19s on the model s would perform.
@@AdamWellinformed my experience with my 2015 Model S 85D is about 10% difference between 245/35-21 and 245/45-19 during summer and about 15% during winters (on winter tires). With staggered turbines with 265/35-21 in the back the difference is maybe up to 15% during summer. If you project those percentages to the P90D you can estimate the efficiency on 19s. But P90D also comes with slightly less efficient rear performance motor compared to my 85 D.
In 2023, this is my dilema, I'm realised working home during the pandemic that an EV would be great in my drive way but being an older citizen in AU my strong preference is to have a dash screen so it is the model S for me over the model 3. But as you stated, for less money, I could get a new model 3 over a 4 -5 year old model S but it for me, a case of saving my money to have the funds for the best used model I can get.
I didn’t think creep mode would roll backwards. Thought it was just ‘creep’ forward like an automatic ICE car.
Hi Llamapup, that makes sense but I definitely had that backwards sensation. Just looked up creep mode on google and if there is a slight incline it will actually move forwards to help, but it also looks like there is maybe an incline limit where it stops. All I can say is I'm team HOLD 😂
@@AdamWellinformed I love the Hold feature in my Model 3!
Any Model S with AP2 or newer wins IMO.
I would love you to have a secret onlyfans account 😀
The dashboard in Model 3 is horrible. It looks like a counter top in a kitchen and missing gauges cluster in front of the steering wheel is even dangerous, as a driver needs to move his eyes from road to the central console to get basic information like speed and check lights. Model S has a proper dashboard with gauges cluster and it feels like a real car in comparison to toy-like interior of Model 3.
I'm in this dilemma now, coming from a Ioniq 28kWh I need to fit my surfboard inside and ideally a roof rack. I'm leaning more to the S with a £25k budget. Great video and thanks for your perspective.
A Tesla S that is only up to three years old should probably be quite efficient when it comes to electricity consumption. It has newer look too
Another youtube'r had a model s loaner from Stockport Service Centre, it had a £3000 excess😲, so it's always wise to check the T&C's of a loaner.
Yes indeed !! Them cheeky t&cs.
anybody bought tesla from company called Vehicles Direct To You. they say they are internet company but not sure if they are genuine
Only Tesla sell brand new vehicles. There are no discounts available for Teslas, everyone pays the same price. They sell directly and do not have a dealership/franchise model. Apart from used car sales, I think the only way a third party would sell a Tesla is via a lease format. Hope that helps.
Nice video, never been interested in an EV until now I see these Tesla s prices looking decent value now. The S looks a nice car in some good colours. That 3 model just looks awful. How are the batteries holding out and what is this lifetime charging deal is it easy to find a charger that is free for them?
Thank you Tommy. There is some official fleet data on the battery degradation at 200,000 miles, on the tesla impact report 2022. I did a quick video summary on my channel not to long ago. Memory says its 90% to high eighties after 200,000 miles. Lifetime charging, is free tesla supercharging. It is not impossible to find but it was a limited promotion ran up to a certain year. Some of the lifetime charging stays with the car and some was limited to one owner only. So be careful with that one. If you can home charge, thats where you will charge the most generally. Its just convenient to get cheap overnight charging that way. All the best 👍
@@AdamWellinformed Thanks, just called Tesla and would have to use a supercharger they said and the closest one is a 50 mile round trip so not practical. The Tesla s is looking good value now with the free charging but I put 80quid in a 640d and have power driving how I like and use all the power consuming extras and get 600miles range with a better build quality. But can see these Tesla s models being peanuts along with other older EV's in a couple of more years.
No worries, they are increasing supercharging stations locations rapidly so if you need to rely on supercharging,the economics may change pretty quickly. All the best
Once I set the video speed to 1.25X the video was more watchable! lol
new model 3 anytime, are you kidding. why would you buy outdaded used model s, its stupid, tech and everything is 5 times better in new model 3 than used 2013 model s. in my ipinion it would be totaly insane to get outdated model s, why because i own both and i know
Model 3 looks like a Prius with an open lap top on the dash. And the door handles, yikes. So to answer your question, those are few reasons why I went with the S. MCU2 took care of the tech. Maybe it's style over substance, but I just couldn't get past the look of the 3.
@@jamesage24 your choice but I love model 3