I feel like what you said about the newer versions being more expanded might be the biggest cause. The more recent updates are done in large chunks with a specific theme, and feel like large scale expansions on what already exists in the game. The earlier versions really felt like a "blank state" of sorts, with the older updates being smaller and just adding a few new features that seemed fun or interesting at random (horses, mesa biomes, redstone, witches etc.). Large scale mods could really take the older versions of the game in unique directions without changing the feel of it too much, while doing so in the more "fleshed out" newer versions might feel strange or conflicting with vanilla. The same goes for what you said about time. Smaller mods that add a particular feature fit easier and seem to be popular. Due to large mods being less played and updated, I think a lot of people now prefer downloading smaller mods to tweak the vanilla gameplay instead of larger mods that can completely alter the way people are comfortable playing. The large updates that add loads of new content are also intriguing, which causes modders and players to move to the latest versions quickly instead of settling for something like 1.12, which has tons of mods, and seems to me like the last "smaller scale" update that was released.
i think the main problem is money because you cant make much money off mods it will always be a side project or smt and people arent really exited because minecraft updates only make lag and cause issues for basically a nothing burger. Like ever seen anyone use a sniffer camel or any of the other useless junk, i sure havent.
As a mod developer I agree , the newer versions have allot to do by themselves so there isn't rlly a need for extensive world breaking mods to fill the emptiness the old versions had , like hell I don't remember the last time I just played purely 1.12 or 1.7.10 without something like biomes of plenty for example
Personally, I think that currently Minecraft modding goes through trends, there was a period of time where everything was magic/fantasy inspired, then everything became technology and farming resources, and now the modding community is spending all its time trying to compete on who can create the creepiest night dweller
The trend also goes towards extending vanilla gameplay, and it took on precedency. It has less to do with short lived thematic trends though and more with a general direction of the modding scene and what the player base wants.
The way i feel is that newer mods are trying to add to minecraft by working off it, while old mods where added to it without thinking about how it fits into the game as a whole
i also think there is another factor. Although sounding strange, the 1.14 texture update may be the moment this change happened. Mods such as Create - although being one of the top mods - builds on top of this texture system. You could easily expect those textures to be in vanilla minecraft. Back in the day, every texture would be made by a different artist and in a different style, therefore allowing modders to use their own style. Let's say you want to make new tools. What would you do? Well, copper tools, emerald tools, heck, maybe ruby tools. But what tools? Swords, pickaxes, always the same. Mods such as tinkers construct were so amazing because of the giant variety of tools that they had. It didn't matter if one mod added katanas and the other hammers, because the point was NEW content. Now it feels more like mods are supposed to be put together. As if they were puzzle pieces that supported each other. I mean, have you ever seen a modpack with Create that doesn't have farmers delight? No, because they are meant for each other, mainly because of the same texture style. I know it may seem weird to point out the 1.14 texture update as a major part of this problem, but it may actually one of the reasons. Modders can't develop their own style, because they are "forced" to follow mojang's texture style. I'm even going as far as saying that mods such as Create force them to do this. Not that Create is bad, just that many modders look up to this mod and hope to be incorporated into modpacks WITH Create.
Yeah, it probably does tie in somehow, mods back then were really extra with sfx and artstyle, even using non-cube shapes for some models, but nowadays that's seen as 'poor quality'. I played vampirism in modern minecraft and despite the great quality of the mod and how it spins around the gameplay loop, the textures just threw me off, not enough for me to stop playing it, but someone else might see just those textures and dismiss the entire mod as low quality.
the replacement of everything with sauceless JAPPA slop is so, so awful. Nowadays it's hard to tell ingots apart at times because of "muh proper artistry"
Aye- 6 weeks polishing, balancing, debugging interactions between mods, writing quests for our Two Guys 1.16 modpack. Averse spent a similar amount of time on his pack as well. I was exhausted for a month after I finished it.
Yeah, anyone who says "took 3 hours", obviously is just, installing a bunch of cool mods with some patches, and calling it a day I spent three hours fixing one texture and crafting recipe for a modpack the other day
As a mod developer, the reason why there aren't any "Overpowered" armor, items, or weapons, is because it's just not practical to make those types of mods. I do feel that as time goes on that those types of mods will be made though, by me, or others.
@@JustVoid17 I don't know if you saw the reply yet cuz since it had a link it just went to hidden, but I made Link15 parasites/Link15 parasites RM which is my main mod that I have been working on, but I have been taking a break on that mod as it's very complicated. I am also working on making Lethal Company in Minecraft, but I have only made the surface of experimentation.
I mean, that part can be fixed by adding config files like the ones in Ice and Fire mod where you can change pretty much anything (or at least anything that should be changeable).
@@gutekyt5768 I don't really get what this is referring to, but yeah config files may help, but it definitely is mod dependent. I myself would like to add config files to my mods, but since I use Mcreator, it's a bit harder as Mcreator doesn't automatically support config files sadly.
Ironically i think its because of everyone having higher standards for mods. Especially modders themselves. People look at hyper polished balanced mods and think they have to make theirs just as polished, leading to extremely long development times, during which they often die out. Back in the day, there was basically no bar of quality for mods. We just didn't notice because as kids, you don't care about these things. Going back to a lot of the really popular big mods of the time, they are... Scuffed to say the least. We were distracted by how big and cool and flashy everything was we didn't notice they were held together with tape and toothpicks. Just look at orespawn. That thing is a trashheap of stolen assets and code, nothing worked together, 0 balance or polish whatsoever, but we though it was the greatest thing to have ever existed.
I feel like your point pretty much hits the nail on the head, aside what others have said about what people are looking for in modern day mods, the pre 1.13 era of mods were as you said- scuffed as hell. While there WERE highly polished mods from back then they were *THE* minority, and this lack of cohesion is kind of what gave pre 1.13 mods their signature character and progression. Simply put it- if someone just throws out garbage onto Curseforge or Modrinth today- no one will care, where as 10 even 5ish years ago there was the decent chance for it to see some degree of success. The Bar was simply Raised.
@@lordlantern599 absolutely. Really large, grandiouse mods are still being made. But actually refining a mod like that takes ages. Usually long enough for multiple minecraft updates to come out, which of course complicates things further. Which is another issue. Version cohesion. Back in the day there were 2 - 3 versions every mod was made for (1.7.4, 1.12.2 etc). Now since everyone wants to play with the cave update at least, theres not really been a dedicated version modders can get used to working with.
I think Minecraft updating more frequently makes it more difficult for mods to keep up. We were on 1.12 for so long that big mods were able to be “finished”. But after that, Minecraft updates haven’t given enough time for mod devs to finish a mod before the next version comes out, and with mods like create always sticking to the latest version, people don’t have time to do those kinds of mods anymore. I think what may be needed is some kind of stable abstraction library over Minecraft that can make mods future proof as long as the abstraction library is updated.
Yeah this is a huge issue As a mod dev, I don't even have time to properly polish a mod on a version that it's already outdated And it gets even worse when having multiple mods to maintain
Minecraft has always updated frequently, the only exception was the period from 1.8 to 1.12. The bigger issue, I think, is a lot of mods not surviving past 1.13. Update Aquatic made such insane changes to how Minecraft works under the hood that a huge portion of mods from that era just were not able to update, which led to a complete shift in what mods are available. Mods back then were building off each other and working towards a specific experience, just as they are now. That experience was just less in line with vanilla Minecraft, and it in some ways died with 1.13. I also think the big modding sites are also to blame for this. I remember back in the day, most mods were in large part spread by word of mouth. On the Minecraft Forums, new posts also tended to float to the top more allowing people to discover new creations. Nowadays you can just sort by popular on CurseForge or Modrinth, which leads to you only finding the same stale mods over and over again. It's hard to find genuinely new and exciting content. It's not just Minecraft, it's the entire internet becoming more homogenized.
Just posted the *same* thing. I started with 1.12.2... after that the minecraft verseions have come out faster and faster and Microsoft / Mojang makes some *big* changes that require mixins/ASM/reflection to do what you used to be able to do. MacTwo Two Guys.
This might be not because of vanilla+ having less exciting energy and being less crazy but more because of porting and backporting which essentially limits mod creators from making over the top mods that still can be considered vanilla++ to playing it more save and not having to fix 5000 more issues because their mod was too humongous and complex
If I'm going to be honest, I think this issue is just simply how you want to play Minecraft, the great thing about Minecraft mods is that they can turn Minecraft into almost any genre, a lot of people like RPG or horror, and some people just like the zaniness of old mods, I am a fan of Vanilla+ mods simply because I don't want mods to overshadow Minecraft or feel out of place, it is simply just what people prefer.
I mean what is the last time you saw something like Thaumcraft? Researching your tech, insanity system, lore about ancients ascending beyond material planes of existence, dungeons and cool boses. And it is not like it felt super out of vanilla.
@@noelka8134 To be fair it also had set a in motion a couple of malignant trends that choke magic mods today. For example it basically invented guidebooks. But many failed to implement them in intresting way and just throw all the contents at you imideatly.
@@spazziron3228 cofh doesnt make thaumcraft or if they do they are really weird because all there other mods are open source aka thermal and ensorcellation but they refuse to make thaum open source?
The reason the "Vanilla+"-esque mods are the top of every mod loader is because each of those mods appeal to almost everyone and can be thrown into any modpack despite it's theme. No matter if a pack is technology themed, exploration themed, magic themed, or just a general kitchen sink modpack, Vanilla+ mods will most often work and fit into those modpacks.
I feel like the main issue is that the modding scene is oversaturated, vanilla+ is a lot easier to make because you already have a pretty good reference so tons of people made vanilla+ and vanilla+ is somthing that many people enjoy so people just keep on making them over and over again. I also feel like it's not so much that there are less unique mod/modpacks but that there is a much larger amount of vanilla+ mods
I wouldn't agree. Real Vanilla+ mod is a mod that organically and seemlesly build on vanilla without hurting vanilla identity (which part lays in simplicity of component parts). But many just missed the mark (either with going to much overboard with something, content bloat or something else) making them more like vanilla+ imposters. I mean they may still be very enjoyable, and even have many ideas that would perfectly fit vanilla... but aren't really vanilla+ anymore (like Alex Caves or farmers delight)
@@Lyokoheros-KLPXTV well, if you look at recent vanilla minecraft updates th8ngs like the aquatic update had massive changes but are very clearly known as vanilla now. Other examples are the nether update, caves and cliffs update, and the new tricky trials update. Many of these features are quite comparable to many vanilla + mods, such as how you mentioned Alexis caves. From what I remember(correct me if I'm thinking of the wrong mod) it mostly adds new cave biomes, which already exist, and also if you look at the nether update, mojang is very capable of making that sort of biome. Many vanilla + mods may be simple and that can deffinatly help but I can also make it feel more like a mod because it feels to small when updates normally are much bigger
@@Goteryup massive? Maybe. But it was all organically build of what was already in the game and was integrated seamlessly. It brings a lot of variety but no things that would be jarringly different or unfitting rest of the game. Other examples are pretty much the same in that regard. Well, ok there's one thing that is actually unfitting in trial chambers: uselessnes of vaults for singleplayer(because they're just chest with extra steps). But it's small thing that can easily be fixed. As for Alex cave... it's example that is kinda near the line, but by a thin margin missed the mark of being truly vanilla+ I mean primordial caves are mostly fine and fitting addition but... the models of dinos are kinda to detailed. I mean they have level of detail comparable to Ender Dragon - at the very least - which doesn't fit for the regular mob (of a rare cave biome, but still). Also the new weapon are a bit of a feature bloat. And some of the dinos stealing meat from chest is not a vanilla-fitting mechanic. After all when something bad happens it should be "technically" players fault and that seems like it can't be prevented... Magnetic cave are also mostly fine, though I have serious doubts about some of its mobs... also as much as the quarry mechanism is enticing it is kinda to obviously modern - which is also the problem with part of the item from it in general. But beside that it's great. Forlorn Hollow is... questionable. And the mobs are a bit too much... especially the monstrosities. The "occult" mechanics (especially possesion) aren't very fitting either. Also there is a bit of feature bloat again, with how separate from the rest of the game most of the features are. Abbyssal hasm is most ok, but the submarine is (at best) questionable, doesn't feel so much minecrafty. Also the thing with deepviion is kinda just feature bloat... though most new creature are somewhat ok, but (especially for the actual mob, and not just static block-like creatures) again there is the problem with fitting Minecraft aesthetic But Toxic caves are the biggest problem. I mean some part of it are ok. Acid is interesting an somewhat fitting addition, it's interaction with lava kinda make sense (but interaction with water... not really). Sulfur and even uranium kinda make sense too... but both could be better integrated in the game (and gunpowder recipe isn't very convincing, but well at least it's some way to get it on peaceful) and the nuclear furnace is definitely over the top feature(such multiblock definitely isn't really fitting). But the new blocks are good, and mechanic of rustin any metal with acid is interesting. The biggest problems are the mobs. Well not all of them cacroach is fine, and raycat is kinda interesting ideas, the 3-eyed fishes are fine too. But brainiac and nucleeper? Nah, they are way to strange and over the top. (Yes I know some people say that "strangeness was always part of Minecraft", but they fail to realize it was always rather subtle. Not as jaring like these. Especially nucleeper). +again to many blatantly high-tech items... and blocks/item giving You negative effect for simply having it in inventory is also not Minecrafty in the slightest... And there also is this overly complex - for Minecraft standards - way of finding the caves. And new updates seems to go in even more wacky a crazy direction (especially with the candy caves...). So it's still close to Vanilla+, but... slightly missed the mark. Well actually I kinda could understand a bit why some people claim it to be vanilla+.. or rather I could if not for toxic caves and high tech stuff.
@@Lyokoheros-KLPXTV ok so I was definatly a bit wrong about Alex's caves but theupdates arnt as organicly built off the game as you would like to think, no major update can perfectly fit the game. Each new update has tons of people saying x new feaure "dosent feel minecrafty". So saying it was integrated seamlessly might be the case from your perspective but it really isn't the case from many others and because of this most vanilla+ mods really do hit the mark pretty well. Many do have some things like feature bloat or other mechanics that wouldn't exactly being vanilla, but the point of the ganra is supposed to FEEL vanilla rather than necessarily being vanilla viable. This albeit is a very thin line to tread and has a good amount of nuance to it.
As a certified old head: I (mostly) disagree. You're not wrong that there are loads of (actual, not in the way people say Create is) Vanilla+ mods, but that feels like a trend people are chasing and past eras *definitely* had their trends. There was the ore-processing-obsessed throughput-oriented IC2 clone techmod era of 1.4.7-1.7.10ish, and the glut of magic mods circa 1.8.2 as everyone tried to be the Thaumcraft successor when Thaumcraft took a long time between updates. But, about Create. Create itself is at most visually vanilla+ but is mechanically, and in terms of the feel of playing it, is an absolute game-changer. The simple components you can combine into larger contraptions feels like an actual engineering task. The moving multi-block structures are *amazing*. It does not play like vanilla unless you're thinking of specifically advanced redstone contraptions, I suppose, and even then it's leagues ahead of that. It's Rotarycraft Pistronics. What modded-MC old head wouldn't want Rotarycraft Pistronics? Does Rotarycraft Pistronics sound vanilla+ to you? Secondly, you seem to be focusing heavily on mods that add *progression*. But, let's consider mobs and worldgen for a moment. As far as mobs, with stuff like Kobolds, Alex's Mobs, Ice and Fire, Species, The Dawn Era, The Graveyard, Aquamirae, etc, we've come a long long way since the era of "it's literally just Mo Creatures." And WORLDGEN! My god. Terralith, Tectonic, Regions Unexplored, Biolith, Project Vibrant Journeys, Explorify, Structory, the Integrated series, Geophilic, Yung's Mods, Alex's Caves.... between all of these and the technological marvel that is Distant Horizons I think we're in a bit of a golden age for things that make the world seem vast, interesting, varied, and alive. You're not completely wrong, though, I miss the huge variety of tech and magic mods. New tech mod production especially has dropped off a cliff (perhaps because people are worried they can't do better than Create, and *they're not wrong* but also I like the variety). I miss when weird crazy new stuff like Flaxbeard's Steam Power would always be coming out, and the creative (albeit unapproachable) mechanics of Factorization. I don't know, I like mechanically-deep and very un-vanilla-like Minecraft experiences and as somebody who's building a 1.20.x pack, I don't feel like we're in a drought. Techmods specifically maybe, but if you count Create addons some of these are the opposite of vanilla (Destroy and The Factory Must Grow in particular get *deep*). LASTLY AND IMPORTANT, if you want new (started after 1.12) thematically compelling and mechanically deep mods that feel like they've diverged from Vanilla completely, try Biomancy, Spectrum, Aylyth, Dragon Survival (remember 2 minutes ago when you noticed I have a furry avatar?), Miskatonic Mysteries, Alex's Caves (if you call it Vanilla+ I'm going to ask you in what world you could imagine Mojang making an acid cave full of nuke creepers), Crossroads, and Malum. Farmer's Delight is also REALLY GOOD and it's new, but might count as Vanilla+ depending on how you look at it. (P.S. don't be nostalgic for Draconic Evolution, it was BAD. according to my subjective opinion which is secretly the objective truth it was a BAD MOD and I don't miss it, rest in piss DE)
Was gonna say this, been playing modded MC since Tekkit classic was just known as Tekkit, played the hell out of the Yogsbox when I was a kid and still personally think the Millenaire mod is one of the coolest mods made, and I pretty much disagreed with the whole video. Someone else pointed out that a lot of old mods were pretty bad but we were kids and just didn't care/know better, also 100% agree with Draconic Evolution being a bad mod. It was so overpowered and one of the only hyper lategame focused mods so every single pack in the 1.7.10/1.8 days would just have you using Tinkers Tools the entire time until you could speed through draconic and use those tools instead. Back in the day a lot of modpacks were super focused on a specific theme/idea, like how they mention Crash Landing. But even then theres still a ton of new modpacks coming out that all do different things from each other. Just feels like a rose tinted glasses kind of video sitting there like "I used to love playing this as a kid why don't I anymore. Could I of changed? No, the devs are to blame."
the tech/magic mods of old modded minecraft felt (from my perspective) like they were all trying to be the Main Mod of the pack (like how you don't just toss cobblemon into a pack, you make a cobblemon pack). like, you could install mekanism, industrial craft, botania, and thaumcraft, but you're really only going to focus on 1 of them, and you may pick and choose a feature from the others to use. then you look at mods today, and mods like Create are made in such a way that they can work together with other mods, instead of everyone fighting to be the base of the pyramid also, old mods (again, from my point of view) seemed to go super op towards the end. imagine equivalent exchange in today's minecraft, just as the only mod of the server. a simple villager crop farm could get you millions of ee points (or whatever they were called). 4 iron was worth 1 gold, 4 gold was worth a diamond. a zombie piglin farm would give you so many points so fast, that you would be done with the mod by the end of the day.
@Thejigholeman maybe I'm biased but having been playing a whole whole lot the magic and tech mods feel pretty well integrated. Even discounting gregtech auts
I think that 1.13's rewrite caused the downfall of the old style of mods. It made it so old modders would have to entirely redevelop their mods and I think that lost us many great developers
@@andrewgreeb916 It just ended future creation for some people but Mojang could work more with modders to make it much easier to update, like Bethesda actively does
The problem is that you actually need to downgrade the Minecraft version im still playing Minecraft 1.5.2 with mods it's 1000 times better than the new versions even with mods and i don't want to downgrade my version to play Minecraft with old mods like from the 1.5.2 or 1.7.10 or 1.12.2 then the modders had a lot of good ideas for mods. I hate the vanilla+ mods i like something to be half horror half building half technology electricity half space going to mars half new biomes half new mobs and new stuff. Now when trying to find any good mods for that i need to downgrade my version or pray that someone recreated it. @@items3sacred
He also ment they didnt improve or even remain the same anymore. The Modular Powersuits mod he showed? In 1.12.2 its absolutely magnificent, beyond that they butchered it to the point its unusable, therefore a mod not many are willing to download anymore because theres simply no point in doing so. OFc there are exceptions like Mekanism and all its addons that got better with versions, but most mods from the past got either abandoned or changed radically
I don't think Minecraft mods have necessarily become smaller or less "impactful" or exclusively vanilla plus, the things people look for in bigger mods has just changed. Things like Create, Scape and Run: Parasites (and the countless similar 'world infection' mods,) Epic Fight Mod, Alex's Caves, the countless horror overhauls, the countless shonen anime overhalls, they all change the experience of playing a new Minecraft world completely. The difference is just that they focus more on expanding, replacing or reworking systems than adding another 50 hours of content and progression. I feel like all the mods where you grind to make black hole guns and super swords that deal 200 damage and literal nukes were a product of their time. Both in the sense that we were all younger and had more free time and big numbers excited us more (just look at the MUGEN character arms race) and in the sense that Minecraft was less known and understood and it felt like there was more allure to kind of "conquering" and "mastering" its world. We didn't care that blowing up a Minecraft mountain with a nuclear missile was utterly pointless because DAMN. Blowing up a Minecraft mountain with a nuclear missile!
This is a really good through line on the old and new modding community, I’d also add that the people modding the game have changed. The interests and wants of the current modding community is different than that of the 1.7 modding community which is different from that of the beta Minecraft modding community. They’re all vastly different because the people making them and playing them were different.
I think you got it wrong honestly. The modding scene, at least in my experience, back in 1.6.4 and 1.7.2 (ofc 1.12.2 as well) had mods that all added their own progression and end game they were many unique tech and magic mods. There were horror and shonen anime mods back then too... and they honestly were never appealing to me because they kinda sucked. They wouldn't add anything new to progression and just slot in a few new armor types with textures and projectile weapons. Maybe monsters with long legs and arms that go raawr. Big mods that were like what Create is today didn't purely add just ohh big damage sword, those existed ofc... but they were never really the main focus... it was about how you get to those big numbers that mattered... the journey was the interesting part. Buildcraft, Thaumcraft, Thermal, Mekanism, Tinkers, Botania, Witchery, AE2, IC2 & Gregtech, Ender IO, Astral Sorcery, Space Exploration mods, Draconic Evolution, Blood Magic, Immersive Engineering etc. Not all of them were OP, some of them were and they added different aspects in game mechanics. Tho most had really op things that you had to progress through it to acquire. Getting a modpack built by someone would breathe fresh life into them again and again. Mixing and matching different progression tiers. Mods like Create and Ars Nouveau for example, are mods that I really enjoy out of the newer mods. And even those two are like 5 years old now. I really don't know any other mods that are similar in the amount of content that they add. Do tell me since I only play old shit. I tried RAD2 and Fear NIghfall... if those two count as newer... RAD2 was ok... Ars Nouveau was legit the only thing I found interesting about it... tho I didn't manage to dive too deep into all the mods since my friends got bored with minecraft, so I probably would have found something more that was fun. Fear Nightfall was a real nightmare lmao but honestly to me it was more fun than RAD2. Tho I guess it was because just surviving for 10 minutes was a challenge till we got something you could call a house going. Tho my idea of a fun minecraft modpack is GregTech New Horizons (500 hours and counting) and Nomifactory which I completed. So I guess there is a very specific type of modpacks I like lol It's not like I am the only one :P Plenty of people play Automation mods, as I like to call them. Compact Claustrophobia was a very fun one, Divine Journey 2 is something I would like to look into as well. Material Energy^4 ... A modpack I really recommend to everyone. Cause I had a blast with it, it had a great deal of adventure and it was packaged really nicely. Using AE2 in a really crative way.
1.7.10-1.12.2 just feels a lot different compared to 1.14+, I don't feel like it's necessarily vanilla+ but it just is different. Back then you would have something like orespawn, industrial craft 2 and more compared to now, which are supposed to expand upon the game itself. I just can't find what exactly feels different.
I really miss the crazycraft and skyfactory days. When the mods involved with those packs would update it felt like an entire sequel to Minecraft was released for a time.
Yeah, I am just upset that Ars Magica 2 never got a 1.12.2 version. Yes, it basically got a reboot in Ars Nouveau (I think that is how you spell it) but it just doesn’t hit the same. Same with Tinker’s Construct, last I checked, it missed half of the tools/weapons.
@@gbpakgirl26what about Mana and Artifice? Its from the same creator as Ars Magicka 2 and looks pretty good, i havent played it yet but its probably going in my next modpack
me personally, i prefer the new mods, but i think the thing that makes some people prefer old mods is the complexity, most of the new mods straight up gives you a path of what you can and can't do, unlike old mods where you have to miss around until you figure out what to do
Quest based mod packs are preferred for me, you have a book that tells you what to work on and gives you rewards for it, so you can do your own thing, but you have a guide and goal for when you want to progress
@@andrewgreeb916Same here. A friend and I have been playing through Project Architect 2, and the Quest book has been a life saver. Trying to figure anything out without guidance would be a nightmare, and we wouldn't be enjoying the mod as much as we are.
No it doesn’t it is an amazing mod but look at Ore spawn it was wild untamed and overall a lot to do caves has modern texture modern ai modern and improved everything
@@Tyson-r1w yeah they have different vibes, and Alex's Caves is more polished, but that excitement of massive mobs, explosions, deathrays, terrors, etc is all still there, just through a new lens
@@lordbeanoz9644went schizomode. got all defensive about his content, tried to make his own shitty game, send dcma takedowns to people hosting his stuff, had paid with accpunt verification for the 1.12 build which is again tos and got him shit from mojang just bad. also orespawn pretty much breaks other mods being with it cuz of the insane power curve unless you customize recipes or something
For me, as a relatively unexperienced mod developer, there are two main reasons why mods are just vanilla+ and not something crazy 1. There aren't that many resources to learn how to make big game changing mods, you just kinda have to figure it out on your own. 2. Everyone needs to make money and vanilla+ mods just get more downloads. So the obvious is to make more vanilla+ mods because the chance of success is higher on the first look
I'm pretty sure the amount of money you get from Curseforge ad dollars is tiny, right? Like it's like Spotify where if you get 30,000 views you'll get enough money to buy a sandwich and a coffee at a cafe, and that's it. This probably goes further if you're in a country where wages and cost of living are both very very low, though. I know this happens for furry commissions too where I have a friend in Brazil who can live off of just doing 10-or-so commissions a month.
I dunno I've been messing around with modding and I'd probably be more motivated if I thought I'd make an entire living wage off of it, but I'm pretty sure you can't, right? It's like if you get really lucky you'll get $50 a month or somethin. That's my impression.
@@GyroCoder you can make a living off of minecraft mods if you dedicate yourself to exploiting the mod distribution site systems. since each download / site view is worth the same no matter how big or small the mod is, you are encouraged to create a ton of tiny mods with frequent fake/useless "updates" that bring in even more revenue by making people re-download the mods. prime example for this is serilum, this guy has over 300 tiny mods that are often just a single line of code. in the last month, his mods got a total of 33 million downloads on curseforge which i extrapolated to be around 12k dollars, with an additional 2k from modrinth.
@@GyroCoder i love having to reword my comments until something sticks. you can definitely make a living wage off of mods, but you need to be smart about it. tiny mods make the same revenue per download as huge mods. so by publishing around 300 mods that are mostly single line of code, you can make around 10k per month
People want different things compared to now vs. then. I attribute this to the giant shift in what youtubers showcase now, affecting what people want to play. Nowadays, if you want a grindy Minecraft experience, you just go on Hypixel Skyblock or something. TH-camrs stopped doing large modpack lets plays or servers, so the new generation of Minecraft players aren't as invested in it. Mod showcases used to be huge, but now almost no one actually does a mod showcase unless its in some established modpack. Before what people wanted back in 1.7.10 was a complete revamp of the Minecraft end-game. In large mods, this tends to boil down to automation, making numbers go up, and meeting damage checks. This style of modding is similar to Factorio or Satisfactory and is already accomplished well in older versions. When Minecraft content creators started to do more SMP style content, it boosted support for anything that would keep player interactions at the forefront. You know what that means? Balanced packs. Big modpacks have a lot to do, but it's nearly impossible to balance. When you can easily overturn entire biomes, player conflict becomes situations of mutual self-destruction that can't be enjoyed by any audience. Because of this, most modded SMPs have one core gimmick that drives player interaction (like the Origins mod or Lifesteal SMP kinda gimmick), so that's what players started to want and what mod developers started to produce. On the creation side, humbler mods are much easier to balance and run on lower end computers. When making a vanilla+ modpack, you don't have to account for 10,000 items in a whole new progression system, you just build off what people already enjoy. It's a simpler experience made for people who play together and want progression to be a little slower.
I was never into minecraft youtuber stuff from the start, and it always felt weird that such a driving force in the scene I spent so much time with is something that I had just zero experience with (outside of when mDiyo was streaming Magic Maiden, that was fun). So the idea that so much of this is downstream of changes in the habits of Let's Players is both believable and very strange.
Ex mod developer here (real life happened). Vanilla plus is easier to make for multitude of reasons, not only you can just take vanilla textures and rework em a bit. And for the most part its not because modders are lazy, but just unwilling to pour effort into something, that might not work well with vanilla, which most likely will be the case of small modpack. Another problem is how Mojang just switch important game internals, like it happened in about 1.8 or 1.16, not everyone willing to just remake 60%-ish of mod codebase cuz developers at Mojang decided to just remake systems. And now imagine you need to maintain multiple versions of game with vastly different systems in place in case you know, bug appears. It really weeds out enthusiasm. Which, you know, important for making "over the top fun content". Next thing i need to point out is feedback, all mods have to start small and you never know what people will be giving you feedback, in case of big mod you just look what people request the most and thats it. But what will you do when only like 3 people comment on mod page? And mind you, feedback is important for moving mod forwards. Imagine my surprise when one of players commented that they want to see my mod with like 500 downloads as replacement for draconic evolution. Its not bad thing, but its really raises some questions. TL;DR: Mojang (probably unintentionally) nuked enthusiasm (which is key ingedient in making "over the top fun content") from orbit, quack.
I feel the community also has blame in that. There are still people unwilling to update past 1.8 because of the combat update (but not as many now), and people who refuse to go past 1.12, and a few other key versions and these people often ask for mods they REALLY like from newer versions to backport. There's also the ridiculous number of modloaders that only divide the community further, with some devs deciding "I will never support X modloader because I don't like the people making it". Many of the mods I WANT to play together with I can't because... opposing loaders.
@@StygianIkazuchi For me the modding community was no more fun when they started making differents modloader like now we have forge, fabrics, quilt and neoforge (i forget another one i think). Why ? cause modder tend to inject politics in mods cause the creator don't like trans people (fabrics) they making quilt. People trowing their personnal things in modding just divide community. That would never happened if Mojand deciding to make a fucking official modding API.
These aren't the kind of "standards" that are enforced by anybody, it is merely that there are a lot of examples of things that feel well-executed and polished, and modders look at those and go "I need my mod to be at least this good before I release it." "Good" is partially subjective but it's gonna be subjective *to the tastes of the modders* and Create is like catnip for programmer-brains.
Here I've been waiting for the next big Witchery, Thaumcraft or even Astral Sorcery, but any new magic mod just feels so... Safe. Bland. Not necessarily bad, it just doesn't have the charm of how bombastic and wild the magic mods of old could get.
If I were you, I would try The Goety mod. It's on (neo)forge 1.16.5, 1.19.2, and 1.20.1. I'd highly recommend playing 1.19 or 1.20.1 if you want the Witchery part of it as well. This mod adds a totem of undying based magic called soul energy and you can use it for many things like casting spells or doing rituals. This mod is inspired by Witchery and Thaumcraft and integrates content from minecraft dungeons into it like having the ability to have your own Redstone golems and Monstrosities. It adds many different magic classes you can become like Witch, Warlock, Evoker, Windcaller, Lich and more so take your pick! You can multiclass as well if you want. But this mod also adds many new hostile mobs, structures, minibosses and actual bosses for you to conquer as well and if you're familiar with Witchery, the Goety mod brings back a familiar face sort of. So yeah, I'd highly recommend on giving it a go because it is an underrated mod.
@@mich705 thaumcraft and witchery are two different types of mods, thaumcraft was always a technic mod disguised as magic like botanica, witchery felt more like real ritualism from modern ocultism, like wiccanism, that made witchery feel unique, there is NO mode today that has the same vibes as witchery, everything now looks more like technical mods, more in the direction of create than anything, is like in 1.12 everything was "redston flux this" and "redstone flux that" in fact that’s why astralñ sorcery, create and botanica had a popularity spike on thos days, because theire fuel was different to redstone flux, and remember the early days of thermal, you had glowston, coolant, lava, aetherium, and in railcraft, creosote, oil, and other kinds of liquids that could work as fuel, that made those interesting, create got popular in the beginning, because was pure mechanical power, that was new, but now, everything is create+, and magic mods are just making big structures that work as machines, and not pure magic, do you remember runic dust mod? or even clay soldiers, those had more "ritualistic" and "soft magic" feeling, now everything seems to follow the same lines as thaumcraft, botanica and blood magic, and that feels more like building communication arrays or machines than making actual magic, Goety is more similar to Thaumcraft, that is not pure soft magic, but hard technical, and the only thing that is inspired on witchery is the aesthetic... heck, even biomes o plenty, a mod from the era of creativity got boring, in 1.7 you had a lot of fantasy biomes and spectacular views because not everything was realistic, but they sacrificed those in favor of realism, and now it feels boring in most instances, and OTBYG feels sometimes out of place because it pretends to feel realistic most of the time, but needs to be polished, and, you know which biomes from both mods feel cool? Nether and End ones! why? Because soft fantasy, If I would like to see a fucking spruce I would look on my window, I want to see real fantasy stuff, and that’s what is lacking this modern era, soft fantasy and core variety, because the core on everything is “abnormals like” “create” and little more…
Enchanted: Witchcraft is pretty much Witchery remade for modern versions. Still doesn't include everything (witchery was massive after all) but it's the closest avaliable.
As someone who has done concepting and have been close to making a mod (lack of motivation overall and my work schedule doesn't help), I personally think the reason why so many mods are vanilla plus is because there is a chance to join Mojang now. Two popular mod creators, Kingbdogs and Cory Scheviak, were hired because of how successful their mods were. I can't speak for everyone, but I been trying to make sure all my concepts fit into vanilla Minecraft so maybe someday I could join Mojang. That kinda sucks though because you miss out on a lot of crazy stuff old mods used to have. But there are two reasons why vanilla Minecraft and Mojang don't go as crazy as old mod creators went with content, and it's simple: Minecraft was lightning in a bottle, and Minecraft isn't a small indie game anymore. To have sold millions upon millions of copies, it's really hard to make a good game like Minecraft is. And standards has reason now that Minecraft is one of the biggest games, so there are guidelines to follow because millions upon millions of people are playing the game. Plus the fact Mojang has to make sure a new feature fits into vanilla Minecraft, pleases the majority of Minecraft players, and make sure that whatever concept they make works on Bedrock Edition. That's just a few things, and that list goes on and on. Minecraft becoming the most popular and well known game in the world is a blessing and a curse.
Your claim that mojang has to make sure that new features pleases the majority of players is kinda moot when mojang has been consistently pissing fans off with mob votes, not listening to feedback, ETC. The only time in recent memory they have actually properly listened is with the piston fiasco.
@@kristinagraversgaard5328 [Edit: btw, there are 300 million copies of Minecraft sold, so thats approximately 300 million people. There is no way of pleasing ~300 million people by being neutral] And that's where the problem starts. Because Mojang IS trying to please everyone, but that is the exact thing that is ruining stuff. No matter how much people want it to be false, there is absolutely NO way to make everyone happy. There will always be someone who dislikes something no matter how safe you play it. Not even something as a basic necessity such as water everyone can agree on, some people think that they don't need water and that they can drink something else. So trying to be neutral and please everyone always ends up with sacrifices. A recent issue in the game industry is with Sweet Baby Inc. for example. They're infamous for trying so hard not to offend anyone that they take the very soul out of a game, and even harass game devs to make their games boring so that no one gets upset. It's a dumb practice, and I wish people wouldn't force others to keep trying to please someone even though it's sometimes just not possible.
@@nett_the_tree honestly I just want them to stop making things more tedious with no added benefit. I don't play hardcore. I don't WANT to spend 30 hours grinding for items that used to take me 4 because I had shit luck on biomes/loot.
I haven't played many modern packs, but from what you described it more seems like the problem is with packs themselves then it is with the mods. When I was a kid, I made a lot of 1.12.2 mod packs for me and my brother to play, some of them were fun, sure, but at some point we got bored and did not feel like progressing because you had to go through vanilla progression first. And then we found Enigmatica 2 Expert, a pack that integrated the mods properly into the progression, it was like a whole new world had opened up because we had never discovered a pack that actually forced its integration into the progression to the point where you couldn't ignore it. Sure, back in the day you could slap a ton of random mods together and have fun, but I feel like those more hand crafted mod packs can easily still work in modern Minecraft.
Me and my friends are currently playing E2E and it's a ton of fun. We had thought about playing a modern pack but we felt there wasn't really a ton to do in a modern pack. So we decided to play E2E. It isn't easy, especially with how deep some of the recipes go, but we are having a genuinely good time.
Yeah, the video has a point with most newer mods taking a really safe route but for the most part the mods arent to blame for this stale modpack era, its all up to the modpack creators themselves. If I look back at 1.7.10 or 1.12.2, imo the golden versions of modding, there is some absolutely amazing modpacks that all play insanely differently, even though most of them share a lot of the same mods. GTNH, Divine Journey 2, MeatballCraft, Enigmatica, Omnifactory, and so many more, are all wonderful hand crafted modpacks that all focus on a theme and they follow that theme until the end, I dont think I can tell you 1 modpack from the modern versions of minecraft that does anything even close to what these modpacks did, all that is made for new versions is just a bunch of kitchensink modpacks that you finish in 3 hours (looking at ATM that didnt change its formula in like 4 versions now), or like the video said, the same vanilla+ modpacks just repeating what the previous vanilla+ did but adding few different mods in it, its boring.
as a developer I would like to add a rant about maintainability, like, now mojang is pretty much making 2 releases per year on minecraft with a lot of changes and 2 "latest" realeases (one major and one minor), and it has a HUGE team of people behind it. So how could a single developer (or a small team) keep up with all the breaking changes and new content integration of the fast-paced releases of minecraft? back in the day it was easy because minecraft stayed YEARS without a single update, so that gave time to developers to create crazy things.
My take on it: Modding just evolved in the same direction Minecraft did. Back in the day, most updates were "random bullshit, go!". The game was very primitive and there wasn't much consistency in the artstyle. So of course, mods were also pretty wacky with their concepts, they had no artstyle (and in some cases they looked completely out of place with the game) and they didn't follow anything about game design. Plus most of these were made by one person or small teams. Things have changed now. Mojang has a game design to follow, they have a consistent artstyle (God bless JAPPA), and updates are more cohesive with strong themes and features. Every single thing is unique and opens up a world of possibilities people will want to explore. The oceans, the villagers and illagers, the piglins, the deep caves, amethyst, sculk, ancient cities, archaeology, and now ominous events. All of this attracted talented people who now work together to create experiences that fit the feel and vibe of the newer Minecraft. I also think this is connected to the Internet as a whole. Things were a lot simpler back in the day. But now you see talented people making cool shit left and right, so it's not surprising things are of much higher quality now.
honestly fuck JAPPA. mods back in the day may not have stuck to a shared artstyle, but they had a coherent and unique style and personality within themselves. i can look at a machine and go "oh yeah that's that mod" from just the side texture of a random machine i might not even have used. nowadays most mods have the same style, with the same replaceable textures, i can hardly even tell them apart.
@@CTonYT old netherrack was clearly superior. it looks like sharp, jagged rock mixed with bloody guts, it's outright hostile, just like how literal _hell_ is supposed to look like. new netherrack just looks like they went "what if we took cobblestone, put a blur filter over it then made it red", it's boring and uninspired
Some modern mods that feel like classic 1.7.10 mods, that I recommend to check out, are SWD teams War of the Worlds Mod, and The Dalek Mod also made by SWD team. But the latter is an old mod that like Twilight forest is constantly being kept up to date, and is grow in size. Both of theses mods are work checking out and there to me at least feel ambitious just like the older 1.7.10 mods.
@@sacrificiallamb4568 same the WOTW mod is actually based of Jeff Wayne’s version bust also features elements from other adaptations. I highly recommend trying it out.
The difference between forge and fabric for me is quality (fabric) vs quantity (forge), fabric is definitely what youd use for a QoL/vanilla+ modpack that runs buttery smooth, while forge you use for pure content and kitchen sink packs, but yeah even then modern day modding is nowhere near what it used to be
It really saddens me that I was really into modding Minecraft when I was a kid, and now that I have the capabilities to play these crazy mods, they just don’t exist anymore, or successors are so few and far between. I want to relive the nostalgia of crazy craft and that sorta thing but I just can’t as easily now.
you can go back to an older version of minecraft using the minecraft launcher, so that you can play these minecraft mods that dont get updated anymore.
Its important to look at who these mods are being made for. Supply meets demand, even in the modding scene. There were more people back in the day who wanted those kinds of crazy mods out of Minecraft. Perhaps in recent times, the people who enjoy modding and creating mods for Minecraft have different wants.
I miss the days of Galacticcraft, thaumcraft, And being able to watch people play huge mod packs on TH-cam like attack of the B-team or crazy craft. Minecraft now just feels a lot more stale. Like aged bread. It’s edible, but it just doesn’t taste good.
I just came back to try and mod Minecraft fully expecting to make a modpack like attack of the b team for myself and welp nope lol I’m pretty mad about it ngl
My take on this situation is that, Minecraft, being as old as it is, now has it’s own full identity, fleshed out by a major company and not an indie dev, most mods nowadays somewhat fit into Minecraft’s indenting and cater to the people who enjoy the game for that identity. The internet and the information available on it has also increased tenfold since those times so I suspect many people who would’ve been interested in making a Minecraft mod that changes the core gameplay and identity of the game have instead opted to work on their own original game as the resources for game development have been massively increased and streamlined in the last decade
This reminds me of clothing, and the Minecraft TH-cam videos you went over a week ago or something. My mom and a lot of other adults, really like the fun colored clothing. Like workout stuff for example. But it’s all either one color, or bland colors. And the kids get all the cool, colored, cute stuff that the adults like my mom would want. It’s all the same and it gets boring. Of course we have the rare find of colorful stuff but mostly, it’s the same and it’s a little sad. You can also see this on MatPat’s style theory on stitch fix and clothing and such. Fun clothing is fun and so are those wacky fun Minecraft mods that hit different. Maybe, people just gotta step out of their comfort zone and try something new, something fun, something wacky. I get it, companies are trying to make lots of money so colors and fun are not the first things that come to mind, and vanilla+ mods are simpler to make. But at the end of the day, try something new, step out of your comfort zone and make something fun that YOU’D like to play. Not something others would. Make something that you would think to be fun. Be creative. After all, Minecraft isn’t about restrictions, it’s about creativity and having fun. Like building a floating house or some giant tnt cannon. Basically, be creative and have fun, weather it is video games, clothing, crafts or whatever. Have fun :)
Dragonblock C, (can't remember the name for the life of me, but the og COD Zombies mod), EVIL MINECRAFT, Orespawn, Aether... Ahhhh how I miss you, my beloved oldschool mods... (I love create mod since it's like literal fucking magic; so the vanilla+ trend thing isn't all negatives at least, but still...)
In short: I think it is because of fabric and the kind of mods it lends itself towards (vanilla+\client-side) It's not the only reason, but IMO one of the main ones
The point at @1:02 is the key here. Mods nowadays are trying to make a cohesive experience while older mods were making unique experiences. Mixing old mods never felt cohesive or organized, it always felt a little chaotic. Which was fun. Cohesive mods aren't bad. They're a result of the more naturalized minecraft era.
I personally think, that a big reason was the texture update. Vanilla Minecraft has a defined style now, so everyone tries to not look bad compared to it.
I think the biggest reason for the divide was 1.13. Update Aquatic did two things that made updating mods harder: they redid some of the base coding for Minecraft, and they shifted their goals when it came to new updates. 1.12.2 was considered the last great modding threshold before the vanilla+ mods of today, and the reason is because so much of the modding community didn’t move on from that version until a while later, but by that time those old mods were left in the dust. That doesn’t mean they’re gone, though. Team Cofh is still updating Thermal Expansion, and they have the permissions to update Thaumcraft. Twilight Forest is still kicking, as is EE2. Even Draconic Evolution updated. Really the only mods that didn’t update were the ones who couldn’t compete with Create, like EnderIO and Extra Utilities.
There were a buch of smaller mods that got left behind too, for example the cyberware mod, afaik theres no modern equivelent to it so if i wanna be a cyborg im stuck in 1.12.2
Something I wish I saw more people make are small silly mods like clay soldiers, the portal gun mod, and the RC mod. These small mods are always good fun to mess with
There are no cannons in base create mod, its an addon developed by an entirely different person, a better example wouldve been "massive conveyor-based factories" or something like that
Me and my wife have talked about this pretty indepth recently and we miss the magic mods of days past that took adventure and real ingenuity, and old tech packs were DEFINITELY far more expansive , now it feels like every mod is a dungeouns+ mods that dont add anything special
I think the big problem with modding is there hasn’t been a big roadblock version to force all the modders to stick to one version for a year or two, like 1.8 and 1.9 were to 1.7 or 1.13 was to 1.12. There just hasn’t been enough time on any version for all the really complex expert packs to come out. Though the difference in power level between new and old mods is something I’ve also noticed, I threw together a quick kitchen sink recently for a friend new to modded and the only ways to get creative flight are mekasuit and supremium armor, there’s no way to from malum or occultism or ars nouveau, and occultism at least should have a way instead of multi jump 5 plus jump boost 3 plus slow falling. There’s also no big powerful end game tools to work towards except, again, the mekatool and supremium. Sure there’s some other options for weapons, but those are also things ported straight from the 1.12 version of the mod(I’m counting the mekasuit and mekatool as a port of modular power armor because they’re really very similar). Every mod I added that didn’t exist in 1.12 doesn’t add anything major to the game(except occultism ignoring the 4:3 ratio of raw ores to dust every other mod uses), or is create which doesn’t feel broken in the same way.
I completely agree with you, back in the day I watched a lot of 1.6.4 and 1.7.10 modpack let's plays and I loved everything about it, I can even remember when i had some sort of a Program to install mods from a list, 1.6.4 had BY FAR the most mods, 1.7.10 also had a lot but way less then 1.6.4, i remember when 1.8 and 1.9 came out and i looked at the mod list and it was almost empty compared to the older versions. I was hoping that it would change, but sadly it didn't and most of the complex and game changing mods don't exist today.
As a Minecraft mod developer, I do not focus much on vanilla plus content. Instead, I do add dimensions and bosses that do require a lot of preparation. Additionally, my goal for Deities Reborn (that’s the name of the mod, yes) is to add quite a lot of content while keeping the quality high and not poorly-made. You are meant to fight literal demons and gods in this mod as well with overpowered weapons that can be obtained before fighting them. I feel like vanilla plus mods are overused and modders should release their full potential and go all out on content and ideas. Thanks for this inspiring video!
@@CTonYT Some of them do have special requirements, yeah. Some can be the same method for various bosses, but there is a final superboss that is planned to be the almighty god of reality that is required to defeat all of the other regular bosses and superbosses first before you can summon him. He will be the ultimate and final showdown and you need to have the appropriate gear (Hypernova armor and so on).
The list goes as followed for the currently planned superbosses of Deities Reborn (I don’t feel like the regular bosses should be shown right now because there are a lot of those planned): - Scarlet Eminence (blood god) - The Beast (god of Hell/Nether) - The Serpent God (god of dragons and hydras) - Zahin (interstellar titan) - Eva (elder goddess of positivity, light, and life) - Arius (elder god of negativity, darkness, and death) - The Reality God (the highest elder god of the cosmos)
I disagree with the sentiment that the quality of minecraft mods are diminishing or sticking to "vanilla+" there are some FANTASTIC mods out there especially on modern versions of the game (example: L enders cataclysm, iron's spells and spellbooks, alex's caves, epic fight, dungeon now loading, the abyss chapter 2, etc.) I feel as thought the problem is more or less the community and "the java problem". When you have all of these amazing mods stuck on certain versions of the game or gated behind a certain modloader then it makes it really hard for them to get the spotlight they deserve. The reson why most of the top mods are vanilla+ is casue those are the easiest to port from version to version.
As as modder.... Minecraft stopped at 1.12.2 for over 2 years. These days, new versions come out every 6 to 8 months. You don't have *time* to do intricate work like you used to. MacTso Two Guys
Not a single mod from the modern day, has reached the levels of creativity of 1.7.10 era. Ars magica 2 is a great example, thaumcraft 4, blood magic, etc.
If your looking in the right places it's not dead or even that many less, it's just the way that things like curse organize by is how frequently the mod is used so the mods that fit in the most packs appear first and those are vanilla plus
As a mod dev that burned out (mostly because of real life and phd) and got my most ambitious mod (prodigy tech) stuck in old versions while only barely managing to port my simpler mods (like glassential or meet your fight) to modern versions (still not done for 1.20.1, burn out sure is awful), I think the minecraft update schedule is a big part in this. Just to cover the eras I knew, 1.7.10 (june 2014) was the major version for a while, then was dethroned by 1.12.2 (september 2017), which then due to the major roadblock that was the 1.13 id changes + forge using that to get a full rewrite, we only ever got a new "major version" at like 1.16.5 (january 2021) (1.14.4 (july 2019) wasn't as big from what I remember). 3~4 years is a lot of times for people to develop complex mods and make ambitious modpacks. Then 1.19.2 (august 2022) was only a year later, and 1.20.1 (june 2023) is still just one year later (with 1.21 (june 2024) also a year later), that is a lot less time to get yourself a big mod. Add to that the much more frequent breaking changes, even in minor versions (hello 1.19.3 completely reworking how creative tabs work, and 1.21 completely reworking the internals of enchantments), and what you end up with is only the small mods managing to comb through it. Indeed, when your mod is big and complex, not only do you have more maintenance to do to get through a port, it's also more likely you were using some random system you were relying on gets reworked (like how many times worldgen was reworked in consecutive updates). Well yes, there were several versions in between 1.12 and 1.19, but then when things move like that you don't really get a point to settle on, especially when you have to rewrite several parts to get your mod up and running. It might not be the only reason (modders growing up and having real life get in their way is likely another big one (hey like for me!) with porting being mostly a chore for an activity you were doing on the side for fun), but then a decrease in mods results in a decrease in options for modpack makers and then boom. And sidenote: Mekanism is still being up to date (it's on 1.20.1 and 1.21), Thermal is on 1.20.1 (though I think it's going through a rewrite?), Botania is on 1.20.1 (hasn't moved a bit, but that mod is pretty much finished), and you got a few new fun stuff like Alex's Caves.
And then on top of that we had the Fabric/Forge split and then last year the Forge/NeoForge split. My programming partner stretched to support Forge but has *no* interest in going to NeoForge (which several major mods did do). And if we did, then we would be maintaining *three* codebases. I just spent the entire night converting 5 of my mods to Forge 1.21.1 and 1.21.2 is just around the corner. I have about 10 more mods (each increasingly larger) to convert before I'm done.
A personally modified version ofFTB Infinity evolved; I added other mods like magic crops and modular power suits, galactic craft etc just because they blend so well. The other one was a slightly modified version of "Create Perfect World" which we streamed for a little while :D
It is a mix nostalgia-blindness and just the community changing overtime (similar to art movements or cultural shifts). Things aren't worse, stale or bland, as we get older we just tend to miss the past more. There are quotes and writings from centuries ago where people are talking about how things in their generation was better, humans have been doing this for awhile and it applies here too 🤷♂️
That AE2 transmutation table you showed for a brief moment made me feel so old. I was playing this mod like THIRTEEN years ago. That's like half of my lifetime magically disappearing to highschool, university, some pandemic bullshit
What happened was folks seemed to feel that minecraft needed to be "minecrafty" and use that pallet of 16x16 and neutral colors. I recently made a cool Minecraft structure mod and was scolded for using colors that were too contrasting.
One of my favorite mods currently is Alex's Caves and that mod, while not as notacibly different on the surface kinda blends the Vanilla Plus feel with something wholly unique
One thing I noticed hurt modding seriously was Mojangs post purchase attitude to updates and content. What was the last version with stable and well fermented modding communities? The constant updates hurt modders badly. So many old complex ones dropped out during that time. So small "vanilla+" mods that needed very little updating just survived the process. Mojang 100% is the cause of shift with major mods. There used to a huge amount of compatibilitypatches and "connecting" mods too but it became practically impossible to maintain those. We are just in recent years finally seeing a slow revitalization of major mods. But that is going to take some timeto heal.
Similar issue for Warcraft 3, Blizzard was intentional in making sure updates do not break mods, so a mod made 10 years ago would work just fine, that is till reforged which broke everything. A smarter studio would release reforged as a standalone, but Blizzard isn't known for good business practices...
I think one of the issues is that there are no large TH-camrs making lets plays around mod packs. Back in the day watching those Yogscast Technic lets plays inspired me to make a similar world with my friends.
Glad I'm not the only one that feels the same way. 1.6.4, 1.7.10 and 1.12.2 modded minecraft just hit different. Modpacks like E2E or Crash Landing. Mods like IndustrialCraft, ThermalExpansion, Mekanism, Botania... These are REAL MODS. They are unique, balanced and fun to play. Nowadays everything is vanilla+ or QOL. Zero creativity. I mean we also can't blame the devs. Remember what happened to the EnderIO devs?
I think its just that modders wanted to expand their audience, many older mods were obviously very niche, and quite frankly if you look at the growth of the modding community post 1.16 its literally been exponential (JEI for example went from 80 million to nearly 400 million)
I feel like another thing is that what people look for in mods has shifted in part because Minecraft is *old* now, back in the day there wasn't really a sense of "minecrafty". in the 1.7 days people REALLY didn't give much of a regard to cohesion and i feel like it's because there wasn't much nostalgia there. Nowadays people like minecraft's "thing". Pixelmon, for example, is textbook old school modding, not even the lightest attempt to fit into Minecraft, just straight up pokemon models. Now there's stuff like Cobblemon, which isn't "a pokemon game but minecraft", it's "minecraft with pokemon". I mean old minecraft mods are a real anomaly, most modding communities revolve around adding or enhancing things that connect to the rest of the game, modern modding is a lot more like that, I mean Create on it's own is automation in service of getting items from Minecraft for the most part. I do in part miss the old style of modding, but i feel like i had the opposite problem that you had, where all mods were so hell bent on just cramming as much as possible into themselves that modded Minecraft looked like an MMO where everything blended together in a cloud of clashing artstyles and esoteric ui elements Oh, and recolored iron ingots too, of course.
For me, a big difference between eras is scale and synergy. For most of the OG mods, they were made by themselves with maybe some add-ons (like Tinker's Construct) while mods nowadays act as parts of a puzzle. You can download like 5 mods a few years ago and spend a few months. Now, those 5 mods are a few weeks of work. Create is a big exception, which I enjoy
For me personally, its definitely because I want a more laidback experinece where im playing Minecraft with mods, not a mod based off Minecraft. Too many old mods focus on gettung as close to creative as possible rather than stick to survival
For anyone like me getting into modding and/or developing mods, here's my piece of advice: Vanilla+ is a great way to base your mod. However, like Void explains, it gets stale, and quickly at that. So here's what you do; Screw it. Take your wildest, most chaotic ideas and just make them. Throw caution to the wind, and make an entire extra game in Minecraft. Have Fun. And most of all, don't be scared to try something new. Whether you are making a Forge or Fabric mod, if it's magic, tech, or adventure, do whatever you want, no holds barred.
I will be completely honest, I am a big fan of Vanilla+ Mods, and never really liked to play a lot of the Mods that just "Did not feel like minecraft" for extended periods of time, so I like the current modding scene more than the one back then. It is really up to preference
Actually, all the mods he mentioned we don't really see anymore are still around. And Crazy Craft is a modpack, so don't really know why he grouped it in with mods.
I was shown this video in my Discord Server, and it reminded me why i got into mod making. Everyone in my server knows I'll never do Vanilla Plus because there is too much of it. Now that I'm hearing it I want my wild mods again!
hm, that’s why i made a vanilla styled modpack but with a completely different goal and progression : i wanted the game to be minecraft but not like a « vanilla plus » but a « vanilla two/sequel » where the main vanilla stuff is finished in 3 hours of gameplay, and everything else is pure excitement about power with a mix of over the top with op equipment and numbers, and balance with difficulty scaling in an interesting way, i wanted to make a Minecraft whose progression is THE focus and i worked really hard to make it interesting and pretty much succeeded: mostly around improved mobs, scaling health, astemir forestcraft, ars nouveau, ice and fire, l_ender cataclysm and others, i made a vanilla styled modpack with a different feel. feeling like an mmorpg where you’re constantly trying to maximize your dps and survivability in a constantly evolving world involving lots of different strategies with guns, weapons types, spells, artifacts and a lot more. my modpack isn’t yet on curseforge but it will be someday.
Mods used to individually be funny or wacky or add a unique element to the game - modern mods feel like they're all trying to be a puzzle piece in a larger puzzle.
I feel like this is more of a trend with the gaming industry itself, modders would prefer to make something safe and not take a risk with making something that isnt just vanila+, no very complex mods. We probably wont have the golden age of 1.7.10 and 1.12.2 modding and modpacks for a while.
You know what I miss about old minecraft? those old official modpacks, Yogbox, Hack/Slash, Technic , those mods were probably the most fun I had with modded Minecraft especially Yogbox where I used to play it daily, didnt knew what I was doing but I had tons of un
Because modern Minecraft is more rpg than sandbox nowadays. Minecraft used to be "do all you want", "define your expierence " sandbox with a little sprinkle if ender dragon and nether fortresses to add dome exploration. Today its "play crazy rpg adventure and maybe build a house or some crazy stupid farm if you feel like it" type of game and you either build on this predetermined playstyle or choose older version and define your expierence.
I feel like what you said about the newer versions being more expanded might be the biggest cause. The more recent updates are done in large chunks with a specific theme, and feel like large scale expansions on what already exists in the game. The earlier versions really felt like a "blank state" of sorts, with the older updates being smaller and just adding a few new features that seemed fun or interesting at random (horses, mesa biomes, redstone, witches etc.). Large scale mods could really take the older versions of the game in unique directions without changing the feel of it too much, while doing so in the more "fleshed out" newer versions might feel strange or conflicting with vanilla.
The same goes for what you said about time. Smaller mods that add a particular feature fit easier and seem to be popular. Due to large mods being less played and updated, I think a lot of people now prefer downloading smaller mods to tweak the vanilla gameplay instead of larger mods that can completely alter the way people are comfortable playing. The large updates that add loads of new content are also intriguing, which causes modders and players to move to the latest versions quickly instead of settling for something like 1.12, which has tons of mods, and seems to me like the last "smaller scale" update that was released.
Well said, and you're completely right about players settling for smaller tweaks as opposed to massive expansions.
This really, most of the massive gameplay changing mods seem to still be developed for 1.7.10 or 1.12.2.
i think the main problem is money because you cant make much money off mods it will always be a side project or smt and people arent really exited because minecraft updates only make lag and cause issues for basically a nothing burger.
Like ever seen anyone use a sniffer camel or any of the other useless junk, i sure havent.
TL;DR
@@6tobi6hana6 fuck off bruh dont comment if you are just gonna be a dickhead
As a mod developer I agree , the newer versions have allot to do by themselves so there isn't rlly a need for extensive world breaking mods to fill the emptiness the old versions had , like hell I don't remember the last time I just played purely 1.12 or 1.7.10 without something like biomes of plenty for example
Indeed, old versions like 1.7.10 were very blank slate so modders filled it more with life. Out of curiosity whta kind of mods have you developed? :D
@@JustVoid17my most popular one is fungal infection spore , we are close to hitting one million
@@harbinger9824 Oh hey I've seen and played with that mod once or twice before! Seems like real good stuff definitely keep it going!
A man of taste I see
@@harbinger9824you made fungal infection spore? i freaking love that mod, i’m trying to make an infection mod myself actually
Personally, I think that currently Minecraft modding goes through trends, there was a period of time where everything was magic/fantasy inspired, then everything became technology and farming resources, and now the modding community is spending all its time trying to compete on who can create the creepiest night dweller
The trend also goes towards extending vanilla gameplay, and it took on precedency. It has less to do with short lived thematic trends though and more with a general direction of the modding scene and what the player base wants.
yeah mainly with whats trending during the time, big ftb series or sky factory, or lucky blocks
Because it LAGS!!! If you want to make Minecraft feel like a different game, why even use a modern version when you can use the superior 1.12 version.
The main trend out there is doing something with Create.
@@bluehairedaigamingi have more fpa on 1.20 than 1.12
The way i feel is that newer mods are trying to add to minecraft by working off it, while old mods where added to it without thinking about how it fits into the game as a whole
i also think there is another factor. Although sounding strange, the 1.14 texture update may be the moment this change happened. Mods such as Create - although being one of the top mods - builds on top of this texture system. You could easily expect those textures to be in vanilla minecraft. Back in the day, every texture would be made by a different artist and in a different style, therefore allowing modders to use their own style.
Let's say you want to make new tools. What would you do? Well, copper tools, emerald tools, heck, maybe ruby tools. But what tools? Swords, pickaxes, always the same. Mods such as tinkers construct were so amazing because of the giant variety of tools that they had. It didn't matter if one mod added katanas and the other hammers, because the point was NEW content.
Now it feels more like mods are supposed to be put together. As if they were puzzle pieces that supported each other. I mean, have you ever seen a modpack with Create that doesn't have farmers delight? No, because they are meant for each other, mainly because of the same texture style.
I know it may seem weird to point out the 1.14 texture update as a major part of this problem, but it may actually one of the reasons. Modders can't develop their own style, because they are "forced" to follow mojang's texture style. I'm even going as far as saying that mods such as Create force them to do this. Not that Create is bad, just that many modders look up to this mod and hope to be incorporated into modpacks WITH Create.
Yeah, it probably does tie in somehow, mods back then were really extra with sfx and artstyle, even using non-cube shapes for some models, but nowadays that's seen as 'poor quality'. I played vampirism in modern minecraft and despite the great quality of the mod and how it spins around the gameplay loop, the textures just threw me off, not enough for me to stop playing it, but someone else might see just those textures and dismiss the entire mod as low quality.
Oh without a doubt in my mind, the texture change changed almost everything. It was a tipping point for lack of better words
Exactly this is what we have been saying
the replacement of everything with sauceless JAPPA slop is so, so awful. Nowadays it's hard to tell ingots apart at times because of "muh proper artistry"
my modpack has create but not farmers delight. Your example is anecdotal.
"took 3 hours too make a pack" not me crying here cause everytime I make a pack for friends it takes me like 2 weeks
this is a perfectionism and I do it too but in a "yes and it's good" way
Bro literally same
Me working on a pack for my friend server for 2 months:
Aye- 6 weeks polishing, balancing, debugging interactions between mods, writing quests for our Two Guys 1.16 modpack. Averse spent a similar amount of time on his pack as well. I was exhausted for a month after I finished it.
Yeah, anyone who says "took 3 hours", obviously is just, installing a bunch of cool mods with some patches, and calling it a day
I spent three hours fixing one texture and crafting recipe for a modpack the other day
As a mod developer, the reason why there aren't any "Overpowered" armor, items, or weapons, is because it's just not practical to make those types of mods. I do feel that as time goes on that those types of mods will be made though, by me, or others.
Oh absolutely I know full well making a "overpowered" mod isn't practical or easy, out of curiosity what kind of mod(s) have you developed? :D
@@JustVoid17 I don't know if you saw the reply yet cuz since it had a link it just went to hidden, but I made Link15 parasites/Link15 parasites RM which is my main mod that I have been working on, but I have been taking a break on that mod as it's very complicated. I am also working on making Lethal Company in Minecraft, but I have only made the surface of experimentation.
I mean, that part can be fixed by adding config files like the ones in Ice and Fire mod where you can change pretty much anything (or at least anything that should be changeable).
@@gutekyt5768 I don't really get what this is referring to, but yeah config files may help, but it definitely is mod dependent. I myself would like to add config files to my mods, but since I use Mcreator, it's a bit harder as Mcreator doesn't automatically support config files sadly.
@@link1581 well, using MCreator does have a lot more constraints than writing it the old way 😅 I used it in the past so I know the strugle
Feels wrong to call twilight updated since the only thing that changes is the minecraft version, and still not having a final boss
Ironically i think its because of everyone having higher standards for mods. Especially modders themselves.
People look at hyper polished balanced mods and think they have to make theirs just as polished, leading to extremely long development times, during which they often die out.
Back in the day, there was basically no bar of quality for mods.
We just didn't notice because as kids, you don't care about these things.
Going back to a lot of the really popular big mods of the time, they are... Scuffed to say the least. We were distracted by how big and cool and flashy everything was we didn't notice they were held together with tape and toothpicks.
Just look at orespawn. That thing is a trashheap of stolen assets and code, nothing worked together, 0 balance or polish whatsoever, but we though it was the greatest thing to have ever existed.
I feel like your point pretty much hits the nail on the head, aside what others have said about what people are looking for in modern day mods, the pre 1.13 era of mods were as you said- scuffed as hell. While there WERE highly polished mods from back then they were *THE* minority, and this lack of cohesion is kind of what gave pre 1.13 mods their signature character and progression. Simply put it- if someone just throws out garbage onto Curseforge or Modrinth today- no one will care, where as 10 even 5ish years ago there was the decent chance for it to see some degree of success. The Bar was simply Raised.
I agree with this
@@lordlantern599 absolutely.
Really large, grandiouse mods are still being made. But actually refining a mod like that takes ages.
Usually long enough for multiple minecraft updates to come out, which of course complicates things further.
Which is another issue.
Version cohesion.
Back in the day there were 2 - 3 versions every mod was made for (1.7.4, 1.12.2 etc).
Now since everyone wants to play with the cave update at least, theres not really been a dedicated version modders can get used to working with.
Honestly thought Orespawn was similar to Terraria in terms of scaling
> "Extremely long development times, during which the mod dies out"
*Tries his best to ignore the Aether II's intent gaze.*
I think Minecraft updating more frequently makes it more difficult for mods to keep up. We were on 1.12 for so long that big mods were able to be “finished”. But after that, Minecraft updates haven’t given enough time for mod devs to finish a mod before the next version comes out, and with mods like create always sticking to the latest version, people don’t have time to do those kinds of mods anymore.
I think what may be needed is some kind of stable abstraction library over Minecraft that can make mods future proof as long as the abstraction library is updated.
Heh, that's why I work at Mcreator - he'll do almost everything for me, and what's not = I'll code it myself.
Yeah this is a huge issue
As a mod dev, I don't even have time to properly polish a mod on a version that it's already outdated
And it gets even worse when having multiple mods to maintain
Minecraft has always updated frequently, the only exception was the period from 1.8 to 1.12. The bigger issue, I think, is a lot of mods not surviving past 1.13. Update Aquatic made such insane changes to how Minecraft works under the hood that a huge portion of mods from that era just were not able to update, which led to a complete shift in what mods are available. Mods back then were building off each other and working towards a specific experience, just as they are now. That experience was just less in line with vanilla Minecraft, and it in some ways died with 1.13.
I also think the big modding sites are also to blame for this. I remember back in the day, most mods were in large part spread by word of mouth. On the Minecraft Forums, new posts also tended to float to the top more allowing people to discover new creations. Nowadays you can just sort by popular on CurseForge or Modrinth, which leads to you only finding the same stale mods over and over again. It's hard to find genuinely new and exciting content. It's not just Minecraft, it's the entire internet becoming more homogenized.
Just posted the *same* thing. I started with 1.12.2... after that the minecraft verseions have come out faster and faster and Microsoft / Mojang makes some *big* changes that require mixins/ASM/reflection to do what you used to be able to do.
MacTwo
Two Guys.
This might be not because of vanilla+ having less exciting energy and being less crazy but more because of porting and backporting which essentially limits mod creators from making over the top mods that still can be considered vanilla++ to playing it more save and not having to fix 5000 more issues because their mod was too humongous and complex
Definitely, big mods like that are NO JOKE to keep up to date with how many problems could arise. Coding and modding are a lot of serious work
Closest to vanilla+ mods I liked in the past would have been stuff like tinkers and intangible.
If I'm going to be honest, I think this issue is just simply how you want to play Minecraft, the great thing about Minecraft mods is that they can turn Minecraft into almost any genre, a lot of people like RPG or horror, and some people just like the zaniness of old mods, I am a fan of Vanilla+ mods simply because I don't want mods to overshadow Minecraft or feel out of place, it is simply just what people prefer.
I mean what is the last time you saw something like Thaumcraft? Researching your tech, insanity system, lore about ancients ascending beyond material planes of existence, dungeons and cool boses. And it is not like it felt super out of vanilla.
i fucking MISS thaumcraft.... when will it return team COFH? WhEn?
Ironicaly, every second magic mod nowadays is basically thaumcraft, but way worse.
@@noelka8134 To be fair it also had set a in motion a couple of malignant trends that choke magic mods today. For example it basically invented guidebooks. But many failed to implement them in intresting way and just throw all the contents at you imideatly.
@@spazziron3228 cofh doesnt make thaumcraft or if they do they are really weird because all there other mods are open source aka thermal and ensorcellation but they refuse to make thaum open source?
@@krunkmonkey3792 they are working on thaumcraft. They regularly post teasers on their discord. I don't know about the source code part though.
The reason the "Vanilla+"-esque mods are the top of every mod loader is because each of those mods appeal to almost everyone and can be thrown into any modpack despite it's theme. No matter if a pack is technology themed, exploration themed, magic themed, or just a general kitchen sink modpack, Vanilla+ mods will most often work and fit into those modpacks.
plus in actuality, if you pay attention to the mods at the first page, it's mostly libraries that are requirements for TONS of mods.
I feel like the main issue is that the modding scene is oversaturated, vanilla+ is a lot easier to make because you already have a pretty good reference so tons of people made vanilla+ and vanilla+ is somthing that many people enjoy so people just keep on making them over and over again.
I also feel like it's not so much that there are less unique mod/modpacks but that there is a much larger amount of vanilla+ mods
That makes a lot of sense to me and I'm sure a lot of others agree
I wouldn't agree.
Real Vanilla+ mod is a mod that organically and seemlesly build on vanilla without hurting vanilla identity (which part lays in simplicity of component parts).
But many just missed the mark (either with going to much overboard with something, content bloat or something else) making them more like vanilla+ imposters.
I mean they may still be very enjoyable, and even have many ideas that would perfectly fit vanilla... but aren't really vanilla+ anymore (like Alex Caves or farmers delight)
@@Lyokoheros-KLPXTV well, if you look at recent vanilla minecraft updates th8ngs like the aquatic update had massive changes but are very clearly known as vanilla now. Other examples are the nether update, caves and cliffs update, and the new tricky trials update. Many of these features are quite comparable to many vanilla + mods, such as how you mentioned Alexis caves. From what I remember(correct me if I'm thinking of the wrong mod) it mostly adds new cave biomes, which already exist, and also if you look at the nether update, mojang is very capable of making that sort of biome. Many vanilla + mods may be simple and that can deffinatly help but I can also make it feel more like a mod because it feels to small when updates normally are much bigger
@@Goteryup massive? Maybe. But it was all organically build of what was already in the game and was integrated seamlessly. It brings a lot of variety but no things that would be jarringly different or unfitting rest of the game.
Other examples are pretty much the same in that regard. Well, ok there's one thing that is actually unfitting in trial chambers: uselessnes of vaults for singleplayer(because they're just chest with extra steps). But it's small thing that can easily be fixed.
As for Alex cave... it's example that is kinda near the line, but by a thin margin missed the mark of being truly vanilla+
I mean primordial caves are mostly fine and fitting addition but... the models of dinos are kinda to detailed. I mean they have level of detail comparable to Ender Dragon - at the very least - which doesn't fit for the regular mob (of a rare cave biome, but still). Also the new weapon are a bit of a feature bloat. And some of the dinos stealing meat from chest is not a vanilla-fitting mechanic. After all when something bad happens it should be "technically" players fault and that seems like it can't be prevented...
Magnetic cave are also mostly fine, though I have serious doubts about some of its mobs... also as much as the quarry mechanism is enticing it is kinda to obviously modern - which is also the problem with part of the item from it in general. But beside that it's great.
Forlorn Hollow is... questionable. And the mobs are a bit too much... especially the monstrosities. The "occult" mechanics (especially possesion) aren't very fitting either. Also there is a bit of feature bloat again, with how separate from the rest of the game most of the features are.
Abbyssal hasm is most ok, but the submarine is (at best) questionable, doesn't feel so much minecrafty. Also the thing with deepviion is kinda just feature bloat... though most new creature are somewhat ok, but (especially for the actual mob, and not just static block-like creatures) again there is the problem with fitting Minecraft aesthetic
But Toxic caves are the biggest problem. I mean some part of it are ok. Acid is interesting an somewhat fitting addition, it's interaction with lava kinda make sense (but interaction with water... not really). Sulfur and even uranium kinda make sense too... but both could be better integrated in the game (and gunpowder recipe isn't very convincing, but well at least it's some way to get it on peaceful) and the nuclear furnace is definitely over the top feature(such multiblock definitely isn't really fitting). But the new blocks are good, and mechanic of rustin any metal with acid is interesting.
The biggest problems are the mobs. Well not all of them cacroach is fine, and raycat is kinda interesting ideas, the 3-eyed fishes are fine too. But brainiac and nucleeper? Nah, they are way to strange and over the top. (Yes I know some people say that "strangeness was always part of Minecraft", but they fail to realize it was always rather subtle. Not as jaring like these. Especially nucleeper).
+again to many blatantly high-tech items... and blocks/item giving You negative effect for simply having it in inventory is also not Minecrafty in the slightest...
And there also is this overly complex - for Minecraft standards - way of finding the caves. And new updates seems to go in even more wacky a crazy direction (especially with the candy caves...).
So it's still close to Vanilla+, but... slightly missed the mark.
Well actually I kinda could understand a bit why some people claim it to be vanilla+.. or rather I could if not for toxic caves and high tech stuff.
@@Lyokoheros-KLPXTV ok so I was definatly a bit wrong about Alex's caves but theupdates arnt as organicly built off the game as you would like to think, no major update can perfectly fit the game. Each new update has tons of people saying x new feaure "dosent feel minecrafty". So saying it was integrated seamlessly might be the case from your perspective but it really isn't the case from many others and because of this most vanilla+ mods really do hit the mark pretty well. Many do have some things like feature bloat or other mechanics that wouldn't exactly being vanilla, but the point of the ganra is supposed to FEEL vanilla rather than necessarily being vanilla viable. This albeit is a very thin line to tread and has a good amount of nuance to it.
As a certified old head: I (mostly) disagree.
You're not wrong that there are loads of (actual, not in the way people say Create is) Vanilla+ mods, but that feels like a trend people are chasing and past eras *definitely* had their trends. There was the ore-processing-obsessed throughput-oriented IC2 clone techmod era of 1.4.7-1.7.10ish, and the glut of magic mods circa 1.8.2 as everyone tried to be the Thaumcraft successor when Thaumcraft took a long time between updates. But, about Create. Create itself is at most visually vanilla+ but is mechanically, and in terms of the feel of playing it, is an absolute game-changer. The simple components you can combine into larger contraptions feels like an actual engineering task. The moving multi-block structures are *amazing*. It does not play like vanilla unless you're thinking of specifically advanced redstone contraptions, I suppose, and even then it's leagues ahead of that. It's Rotarycraft Pistronics. What modded-MC old head wouldn't want Rotarycraft Pistronics? Does Rotarycraft Pistronics sound vanilla+ to you?
Secondly, you seem to be focusing heavily on mods that add *progression*. But, let's consider mobs and worldgen for a moment. As far as mobs, with stuff like Kobolds, Alex's Mobs, Ice and Fire, Species, The Dawn Era, The Graveyard, Aquamirae, etc, we've come a long long way since the era of "it's literally just Mo Creatures." And WORLDGEN! My god. Terralith, Tectonic, Regions Unexplored, Biolith, Project Vibrant Journeys, Explorify, Structory, the Integrated series, Geophilic, Yung's Mods, Alex's Caves.... between all of these and the technological marvel that is Distant Horizons I think we're in a bit of a golden age for things that make the world seem vast, interesting, varied, and alive.
You're not completely wrong, though, I miss the huge variety of tech and magic mods. New tech mod production especially has dropped off a cliff (perhaps because people are worried they can't do better than Create, and *they're not wrong* but also I like the variety). I miss when weird crazy new stuff like Flaxbeard's Steam Power would always be coming out, and the creative (albeit unapproachable) mechanics of Factorization.
I don't know, I like mechanically-deep and very un-vanilla-like Minecraft experiences and as somebody who's building a 1.20.x pack, I don't feel like we're in a drought. Techmods specifically maybe, but if you count Create addons some of these are the opposite of vanilla (Destroy and The Factory Must Grow in particular get *deep*).
LASTLY AND IMPORTANT, if you want new (started after 1.12) thematically compelling and mechanically deep mods that feel like they've diverged from Vanilla completely, try Biomancy, Spectrum, Aylyth, Dragon Survival (remember 2 minutes ago when you noticed I have a furry avatar?), Miskatonic Mysteries, Alex's Caves (if you call it Vanilla+ I'm going to ask you in what world you could imagine Mojang making an acid cave full of nuke creepers), Crossroads, and Malum.
Farmer's Delight is also REALLY GOOD and it's new, but might count as Vanilla+ depending on how you look at it.
(P.S. don't be nostalgic for Draconic Evolution, it was BAD. according to my subjective opinion which is secretly the objective truth it was a BAD MOD and I don't miss it, rest in piss DE)
Was gonna say this, been playing modded MC since Tekkit classic was just known as Tekkit, played the hell out of the Yogsbox when I was a kid and still personally think the Millenaire mod is one of the coolest mods made, and I pretty much disagreed with the whole video. Someone else pointed out that a lot of old mods were pretty bad but we were kids and just didn't care/know better, also 100% agree with Draconic Evolution being a bad mod. It was so overpowered and one of the only hyper lategame focused mods so every single pack in the 1.7.10/1.8 days would just have you using Tinkers Tools the entire time until you could speed through draconic and use those tools instead. Back in the day a lot of modpacks were super focused on a specific theme/idea, like how they mention Crash Landing. But even then theres still a ton of new modpacks coming out that all do different things from each other. Just feels like a rose tinted glasses kind of video sitting there like "I used to love playing this as a kid why don't I anymore. Could I of changed? No, the devs are to blame."
Agree 100%
I miss gregtech style mods
the tech/magic mods of old modded minecraft felt (from my perspective) like they were all trying to be the Main Mod of the pack (like how you don't just toss cobblemon into a pack, you make a cobblemon pack).
like, you could install mekanism, industrial craft, botania, and thaumcraft, but you're really only going to focus on 1 of them, and you may pick and choose a feature from the others to use.
then you look at mods today, and mods like Create are made in such a way that they can work together with other mods, instead of everyone fighting to be the base of the pyramid
also, old mods (again, from my point of view) seemed to go super op towards the end.
imagine equivalent exchange in today's minecraft, just as the only mod of the server. a simple villager crop farm could get you millions of ee points (or whatever they were called). 4 iron was worth 1 gold, 4 gold was worth a diamond. a zombie piglin farm would give you so many points so fast, that you would be done with the mod by the end of the day.
@Thejigholeman maybe I'm biased but having been playing a whole whole lot the magic and tech mods feel pretty well integrated. Even discounting gregtech auts
I think that 1.13's rewrite caused the downfall of the old style of mods. It made it so old modders would have to entirely redevelop their mods and I think that lost us many great developers
Nah, we can always just use older versions, many mods run older versions, nothing is lost, unless you're trying to make stuff on new versions.
@@andrewgreeb916 It just ended future creation for some people but Mojang could work more with modders to make it much easier to update, like Bethesda actively does
@@andrewgreeb916 Nobody said that you can't download old mods anymore, but who wakes up on a Thursday and decides I'm going to make a 1.7.10 mod today
The problem is that you actually need to downgrade the Minecraft version im still playing Minecraft 1.5.2 with mods it's 1000 times better than the new versions even with mods and i don't want to downgrade my version to play Minecraft with old mods like from the 1.5.2 or 1.7.10 or 1.12.2 then the modders had a lot of good ideas for mods. I hate the vanilla+ mods i like something to be half horror half building half technology electricity half space going to mars half new biomes half new mobs and new stuff. Now when trying to find any good mods for that i need to downgrade my version or pray that someone recreated it. @@items3sacred
@@items3sacred The GTNH team porting modern mods to 1.7.10 do
I think it’s crraaaaaazy that the mods you provided as examples of mods that aren’t made anymore literally still exist
He also ment they didnt improve or even remain the same anymore. The Modular Powersuits mod he showed? In 1.12.2 its absolutely magnificent, beyond that they butchered it to the point its unusable, therefore a mod not many are willing to download anymore because theres simply no point in doing so. OFc there are exceptions like Mekanism and all its addons that got better with versions, but most mods from the past got either abandoned or changed radically
I don't think Minecraft mods have necessarily become smaller or less "impactful" or exclusively vanilla plus, the things people look for in bigger mods has just changed.
Things like Create, Scape and Run: Parasites (and the countless similar 'world infection' mods,) Epic Fight Mod, Alex's Caves, the countless horror overhauls, the countless shonen anime overhalls, they all change the experience of playing a new Minecraft world completely. The difference is just that they focus more on expanding, replacing or reworking systems than adding another 50 hours of content and progression.
I feel like all the mods where you grind to make black hole guns and super swords that deal 200 damage and literal nukes were a product of their time. Both in the sense that we were all younger and had more free time and big numbers excited us more (just look at the MUGEN character arms race) and in the sense that Minecraft was less known and understood and it felt like there was more allure to kind of "conquering" and "mastering" its world. We didn't care that blowing up a Minecraft mountain with a nuclear missile was utterly pointless because DAMN. Blowing up a Minecraft mountain with a nuclear missile!
This is a really good through line on the old and new modding community, I’d also add that the people modding the game have changed. The interests and wants of the current modding community is different than that of the 1.7 modding community which is different from that of the beta Minecraft modding community. They’re all vastly different because the people making them and playing them were different.
I think you got it wrong honestly.
The modding scene, at least in my experience, back in 1.6.4 and 1.7.2 (ofc 1.12.2 as well) had mods that all added their own progression and end game they were many unique tech and magic mods. There were horror and shonen anime mods back then too... and they honestly were never appealing to me because they kinda sucked. They wouldn't add anything new to progression and just slot in a few new armor types with textures and projectile weapons. Maybe monsters with long legs and arms that go raawr.
Big mods that were like what Create is today didn't purely add just ohh big damage sword, those existed ofc... but they were never really the main focus... it was about how you get to those big numbers that mattered... the journey was the interesting part.
Buildcraft, Thaumcraft, Thermal, Mekanism, Tinkers, Botania, Witchery, AE2, IC2 & Gregtech, Ender IO, Astral Sorcery, Space Exploration mods, Draconic Evolution, Blood Magic, Immersive Engineering etc. Not all of them were OP, some of them were and they added different aspects in game mechanics. Tho most had really op things that you had to progress through it to acquire. Getting a modpack built by someone would breathe fresh life into them again and again. Mixing and matching different progression tiers.
Mods like Create and Ars Nouveau for example, are mods that I really enjoy out of the newer mods. And even those two are like 5 years old now. I really don't know any other mods that are similar in the amount of content that they add. Do tell me since I only play old shit.
I tried RAD2 and Fear NIghfall... if those two count as newer... RAD2 was ok... Ars Nouveau was legit the only thing I found interesting about it... tho I didn't manage to dive too deep into all the mods since my friends got bored with minecraft, so I probably would have found something more that was fun. Fear Nightfall was a real nightmare lmao but honestly to me it was more fun than RAD2. Tho I guess it was because just surviving for 10 minutes was a challenge till we got something you could call a house going.
Tho my idea of a fun minecraft modpack is GregTech New Horizons (500 hours and counting) and Nomifactory which I completed. So I guess there is a very specific type of modpacks I like lol
It's not like I am the only one :P Plenty of people play Automation mods, as I like to call them. Compact Claustrophobia was a very fun one, Divine Journey 2 is something I would like to look into as well. Material Energy^4 ... A modpack I really recommend to everyone. Cause I had a blast with it, it had a great deal of adventure and it was packaged really nicely. Using AE2 in a really crative way.
Hbm ntm is currently being developed and has an interesting character (being weird as heck)
omg hi almy :D
1.7.10-1.12.2 just feels a lot different compared to 1.14+, I don't feel like it's necessarily vanilla+ but it just is different. Back then you would have something like orespawn, industrial craft 2 and more compared to now, which are supposed to expand upon the game itself. I just can't find what exactly feels different.
I really miss the crazycraft and skyfactory days. When the mods involved with those packs would update it felt like an entire sequel to Minecraft was released for a time.
Draconic evolution finally made it into more current versions. I really do miss modular powersuits and thaumcraft, though. They were fun to play with.
Modern draconics is just uggly , as a dev i hate people throwing hate to devs but for the draconic dev, i hate him
Yeah, I am just upset that Ars Magica 2 never got a 1.12.2 version. Yes, it basically got a reboot in Ars Nouveau (I think that is how you spell it) but it just doesn’t hit the same. Same with Tinker’s Construct, last I checked, it missed half of the tools/weapons.
@@gbpakgirl26 i agree but atleast last i checked tinkers was planned to eventually get the missing weapons
@@gbpakgirl26what about Mana and Artifice? Its from the same creator as Ars Magicka 2 and looks pretty good, i havent played it yet but its probably going in my next modpack
How does nobody know that thaumcraft is still being worked on and updated
me personally, i prefer the new mods, but i think the thing that makes some people prefer old mods is the complexity, most of the new mods straight up gives you a path of what you can and can't do, unlike old mods where you have to miss around until you figure out what to do
Quest based mod packs are preferred for me, you have a book that tells you what to work on and gives you rewards for it, so you can do your own thing, but you have a guide and goal for when you want to progress
@@andrewgreeb916Same here. A friend and I have been playing through Project Architect 2, and the Quest book has been a life saver.
Trying to figure anything out without guidance would be a nightmare, and we wouldn't be enjoying the mod as much as we are.
I think Alex’s caves captures that excitement your talking about.
No it doesn’t it is an amazing mod but look at Ore spawn it was wild untamed and overall a lot to do caves has modern texture modern ai modern and improved everything
@@Tyson-r1w yeah they have different vibes, and Alex's Caves is more polished, but that excitement of massive mobs, explosions, deathrays, terrors, etc is all still there, just through a new lens
@@globalwyrm2334More polished and not made by a conspiracy nut job.
Kinda insane how we’d have modern Orespawn if he wasn’t wearing a tin foil hat
@@l1ghtd3m0n3WHAT ABOUT THE ORESPAWN DEV?? LMAO???
@@lordbeanoz9644went schizomode. got all defensive about his content, tried to make his own shitty game, send dcma takedowns to people hosting his stuff, had paid with accpunt verification for the 1.12 build which is again tos and got him shit from mojang
just bad. also orespawn pretty much breaks other mods being with it cuz of the insane power curve unless you customize recipes or something
For me, as a relatively unexperienced mod developer, there are two main reasons why mods are just vanilla+ and not something crazy
1. There aren't that many resources to learn how to make big game changing mods, you just kinda have to figure it out on your own.
2. Everyone needs to make money and vanilla+ mods just get more downloads. So the obvious is to make more vanilla+ mods because the chance of success is higher on the first look
I'm pretty sure the amount of money you get from Curseforge ad dollars is tiny, right? Like it's like Spotify where if you get 30,000 views you'll get enough money to buy a sandwich and a coffee at a cafe, and that's it.
This probably goes further if you're in a country where wages and cost of living are both very very low, though. I know this happens for furry commissions too where I have a friend in Brazil who can live off of just doing 10-or-so commissions a month.
I dunno I've been messing around with modding and I'd probably be more motivated if I thought I'd make an entire living wage off of it, but I'm pretty sure you can't, right? It's like if you get really lucky you'll get $50 a month or somethin. That's my impression.
@@GyroCoder you can make a living off of minecraft mods if you dedicate yourself to exploiting the mod distribution site systems. since each download / site view is worth the same no matter how big or small the mod is, you are encouraged to create a ton of tiny mods with frequent fake/useless "updates" that bring in even more revenue by making people re-download the mods.
prime example for this is serilum, this guy has over 300 tiny mods that are often just a single line of code. in the last month, his mods got a total of 33 million downloads on curseforge which i extrapolated to be around 12k dollars, with an additional 2k from modrinth.
@@GyroCoder i love having to reword my comments until something sticks.
you can definitely make a living wage off of mods, but you need to be smart about it. tiny mods make the same revenue per download as huge mods. so by publishing around 300 mods that are mostly single line of code, you can make around 10k per month
What you described is not a problem with mods but with modpacks, crazy mods still exist
Ehhhh show me them
@@DarkShadow-zn4byI was gonna say good old gregtech is still alive but I dont want to be seen as a masochist!
@@nicz7694drink concrete
Biomancy my beloved
@@DarkShadow-zn4by Biomancy.
There are more but this one is an entertainingly extreme example lol
I still play Tekkit Classic to this day and hate modern Minecraft.
People want different things compared to now vs. then. I attribute this to the giant shift in what youtubers showcase now, affecting what people want to play. Nowadays, if you want a grindy Minecraft experience, you just go on Hypixel Skyblock or something. TH-camrs stopped doing large modpack lets plays or servers, so the new generation of Minecraft players aren't as invested in it. Mod showcases used to be huge, but now almost no one actually does a mod showcase unless its in some established modpack. Before what people wanted back in 1.7.10 was a complete revamp of the Minecraft end-game. In large mods, this tends to boil down to automation, making numbers go up, and meeting damage checks. This style of modding is similar to Factorio or Satisfactory and is already accomplished well in older versions.
When Minecraft content creators started to do more SMP style content, it boosted support for anything that would keep player interactions at the forefront. You know what that means? Balanced packs. Big modpacks have a lot to do, but it's nearly impossible to balance. When you can easily overturn entire biomes, player conflict becomes situations of mutual self-destruction that can't be enjoyed by any audience. Because of this, most modded SMPs have one core gimmick that drives player interaction (like the Origins mod or Lifesteal SMP kinda gimmick), so that's what players started to want and what mod developers started to produce.
On the creation side, humbler mods are much easier to balance and run on lower end computers. When making a vanilla+ modpack, you don't have to account for 10,000 items in a whole new progression system, you just build off what people already enjoy. It's a simpler experience made for people who play together and want progression to be a little slower.
I was never into minecraft youtuber stuff from the start, and it always felt weird that such a driving force in the scene I spent so much time with is something that I had just zero experience with (outside of when mDiyo was streaming Magic Maiden, that was fun). So the idea that so much of this is downstream of changes in the habits of Let's Players is both believable and very strange.
I was just playing Terrafirmagreg which is a 1.20 modpack and hardly what anyone could call vanilla plus
Ex mod developer here (real life happened). Vanilla plus is easier to make for multitude of reasons, not only you can just take vanilla textures and rework em a bit. And for the most part its not because modders are lazy, but just unwilling to pour effort into something, that might not work well with vanilla, which most likely will be the case of small modpack. Another problem is how Mojang just switch important game internals, like it happened in about 1.8 or 1.16, not everyone willing to just remake 60%-ish of mod codebase cuz developers at Mojang decided to just remake systems. And now imagine you need to maintain multiple versions of game with vastly different systems in place in case you know, bug appears. It really weeds out enthusiasm. Which, you know, important for making "over the top fun content". Next thing i need to point out is feedback, all mods have to start small and you never know what people will be giving you feedback, in case of big mod you just look what people request the most and thats it. But what will you do when only like 3 people comment on mod page? And mind you, feedback is important for moving mod forwards. Imagine my surprise when one of players commented that they want to see my mod with like 500 downloads as replacement for draconic evolution. Its not bad thing, but its really raises some questions.
TL;DR: Mojang (probably unintentionally) nuked enthusiasm (which is key ingedient in making "over the top fun content") from orbit, quack.
I feel the community also has blame in that. There are still people unwilling to update past 1.8 because of the combat update (but not as many now), and people who refuse to go past 1.12, and a few other key versions and these people often ask for mods they REALLY like from newer versions to backport. There's also the ridiculous number of modloaders that only divide the community further, with some devs deciding "I will never support X modloader because I don't like the people making it". Many of the mods I WANT to play together with I can't because... opposing loaders.
@@StygianIkazuchi For me the modding community was no more fun when they started making differents modloader like now we have forge, fabrics, quilt and neoforge (i forget another one i think). Why ? cause modder tend to inject politics in mods cause the creator don't like trans people (fabrics) they making quilt. People trowing their personnal things in modding just divide community. That would never happened if Mojand deciding to make a fucking official modding API.
@ShadowWolf2023-yp5zg yes but never does
I think what happened is,that standards were developed, standards are made for big audience and this kill creativity.
I hate to agree with a furry, but you're right. As Minecraft grew more popular, the least common denominator became the loudest voice.
@@Netist_ bro made me laugh
These aren't the kind of "standards" that are enforced by anybody, it is merely that there are a lot of examples of things that feel well-executed and polished, and modders look at those and go "I need my mod to be at least this good before I release it." "Good" is partially subjective but it's gonna be subjective *to the tastes of the modders* and Create is like catnip for programmer-brains.
the status quo has changed
Here I've been waiting for the next big Witchery, Thaumcraft or even Astral Sorcery, but any new magic mod just feels so... Safe. Bland. Not necessarily bad, it just doesn't have the charm of how bombastic and wild the magic mods of old could get.
If I were you, I would try The Goety mod. It's on (neo)forge 1.16.5, 1.19.2, and 1.20.1. I'd highly recommend playing 1.19 or 1.20.1 if you want the Witchery part of it as well.
This mod adds a totem of undying based magic called soul energy and you can use it for many things like casting spells or doing rituals.
This mod is inspired by Witchery and Thaumcraft and integrates content from minecraft dungeons into it like having the ability to have your own Redstone golems and Monstrosities.
It adds many different magic classes you can become like Witch, Warlock, Evoker, Windcaller, Lich and more so take your pick! You can multiclass as well if you want.
But this mod also adds many new hostile mobs, structures, minibosses and actual bosses for you to conquer as well and if you're familiar with Witchery, the Goety mod brings back a familiar face sort of. So yeah, I'd highly recommend on giving it a go because it is an underrated mod.
@@mich705 thaumcraft and witchery are two different types of mods, thaumcraft was always a technic mod disguised as magic like botanica, witchery felt more like real ritualism from modern ocultism, like wiccanism, that made witchery feel unique, there is NO mode today that has the same vibes as witchery, everything now looks more like technical mods, more in the direction of create than anything, is like in 1.12 everything was "redston flux this" and "redstone flux that" in fact that’s why astralñ sorcery, create and botanica had a popularity spike on thos days, because theire fuel was different to redstone flux, and remember the early days of thermal, you had glowston, coolant, lava, aetherium, and in railcraft, creosote, oil, and other kinds of liquids that could work as fuel, that made those interesting, create got popular in the beginning, because was pure mechanical power, that was new, but now, everything is create+, and magic mods are just making big structures that work as machines, and not pure magic, do you remember runic dust mod? or even clay soldiers, those had more "ritualistic" and "soft magic" feeling, now everything seems to follow the same lines as thaumcraft, botanica and blood magic, and that feels more like building communication arrays or machines than making actual magic, Goety is more similar to Thaumcraft, that is not pure soft magic, but hard technical, and the only thing that is inspired on witchery is the aesthetic... heck, even biomes o plenty, a mod from the era of creativity got boring, in 1.7 you had a lot of fantasy biomes and spectacular views because not everything was realistic, but they sacrificed those in favor of realism, and now it feels boring in most instances, and OTBYG feels sometimes out of place because it pretends to feel realistic most of the time, but needs to be polished, and, you know which biomes from both mods feel cool? Nether and End ones! why? Because soft fantasy, If I would like to see a fucking spruce I would look on my window, I want to see real fantasy stuff, and that’s what is lacking this modern era, soft fantasy and core variety, because the core on everything is “abnormals like” “create” and little more…
have you tried Mana & Artifice?
witchery has a successor, called bewitchment, although it still lacks some content to reach what witchery was.
thaumcraft I miss it too :c
Enchanted: Witchcraft is pretty much Witchery remade for modern versions. Still doesn't include everything (witchery was massive after all) but it's the closest avaliable.
mods on 1.12.2 : literally anything u can think of
mods on 1.16.5 and higher : dwellers and vanilla+
As someone who has done concepting and have been close to making a mod (lack of motivation overall and my work schedule doesn't help), I personally think the reason why so many mods are vanilla plus is because there is a chance to join Mojang now. Two popular mod creators, Kingbdogs and Cory Scheviak, were hired because of how successful their mods were. I can't speak for everyone, but I been trying to make sure all my concepts fit into vanilla Minecraft so maybe someday I could join Mojang. That kinda sucks though because you miss out on a lot of crazy stuff old mods used to have. But there are two reasons why vanilla Minecraft and Mojang don't go as crazy as old mod creators went with content, and it's simple: Minecraft was lightning in a bottle, and Minecraft isn't a small indie game anymore. To have sold millions upon millions of copies, it's really hard to make a good game like Minecraft is. And standards has reason now that Minecraft is one of the biggest games, so there are guidelines to follow because millions upon millions of people are playing the game. Plus the fact Mojang has to make sure a new feature fits into vanilla Minecraft, pleases the majority of Minecraft players, and make sure that whatever concept they make works on Bedrock Edition. That's just a few things, and that list goes on and on. Minecraft becoming the most popular and well known game in the world is a blessing and a curse.
Mods were always a way to elevate the game above what Mojag and Microsoft wanted to do with it. It is a shame people don't see it like that any more.
Your claim that mojang has to make sure that new features pleases the majority of players is kinda moot when mojang has been consistently pissing fans off with mob votes, not listening to feedback, ETC. The only time in recent memory they have actually properly listened is with the piston fiasco.
@@kristinagraversgaard5328 [Edit: btw, there are 300 million copies of Minecraft sold, so thats approximately 300 million people. There is no way of pleasing ~300 million people by being neutral]
And that's where the problem starts. Because Mojang IS trying to please everyone, but that is the exact thing that is ruining stuff. No matter how much people want it to be false, there is absolutely NO way to make everyone happy. There will always be someone who dislikes something no matter how safe you play it. Not even something as a basic necessity such as water everyone can agree on, some people think that they don't need water and that they can drink something else. So trying to be neutral and please everyone always ends up with sacrifices. A recent issue in the game industry is with Sweet Baby Inc. for example. They're infamous for trying so hard not to offend anyone that they take the very soul out of a game, and even harass game devs to make their games boring so that no one gets upset. It's a dumb practice, and I wish people wouldn't force others to keep trying to please someone even though it's sometimes just not possible.
@@nett_the_tree honestly I just want them to stop making things more tedious with no added benefit. I don't play hardcore. I don't WANT to spend 30 hours grinding for items that used to take me 4 because I had shit luck on biomes/loot.
There's something about playing old and forgotten Minecraft modpacks with plots and stories thats so exciting to me
I haven't played many modern packs, but from what you described it more seems like the problem is with packs themselves then it is with the mods.
When I was a kid, I made a lot of 1.12.2 mod packs for me and my brother to play, some of them were fun, sure, but at some point we got bored and did not feel like progressing because you had to go through vanilla progression first.
And then we found Enigmatica 2 Expert, a pack that integrated the mods properly into the progression, it was like a whole new world had opened up because we had never discovered a pack that actually forced its integration into the progression to the point where you couldn't ignore it.
Sure, back in the day you could slap a ton of random mods together and have fun, but I feel like those more hand crafted mod packs can easily still work in modern Minecraft.
Me and my friends are currently playing E2E and it's a ton of fun. We had thought about playing a modern pack but we felt there wasn't really a ton to do in a modern pack. So we decided to play E2E. It isn't easy, especially with how deep some of the recipes go, but we are having a genuinely good time.
Yeah taking the vanilla progression out helps
Yeah, the video has a point with most newer mods taking a really safe route but for the most part the mods arent to blame for this stale modpack era, its all up to the modpack creators themselves. If I look back at 1.7.10 or 1.12.2, imo the golden versions of modding, there is some absolutely amazing modpacks that all play insanely differently, even though most of them share a lot of the same mods. GTNH, Divine Journey 2, MeatballCraft, Enigmatica, Omnifactory, and so many more, are all wonderful hand crafted modpacks that all focus on a theme and they follow that theme until the end, I dont think I can tell you 1 modpack from the modern versions of minecraft that does anything even close to what these modpacks did, all that is made for new versions is just a bunch of kitchensink modpacks that you finish in 3 hours (looking at ATM that didnt change its formula in like 4 versions now), or like the video said, the same vanilla+ modpacks just repeating what the previous vanilla+ did but adding few different mods in it, its boring.
as a developer I would like to add a rant about maintainability, like, now mojang is pretty much making 2 releases per year on minecraft with a lot of changes and 2 "latest" realeases (one major and one minor), and it has a HUGE team of people behind it. So how could a single developer (or a small team) keep up with all the breaking changes and new content integration of the fast-paced releases of minecraft? back in the day it was easy because minecraft stayed YEARS without a single update, so that gave time to developers to create crazy things.
My take on it:
Modding just evolved in the same direction Minecraft did.
Back in the day, most updates were "random bullshit, go!". The game was very primitive and there wasn't much consistency in the artstyle.
So of course, mods were also pretty wacky with their concepts, they had no artstyle (and in some cases they looked completely out of place with the game) and they didn't follow anything about game design. Plus most of these were made by one person or small teams.
Things have changed now. Mojang has a game design to follow, they have a consistent artstyle (God bless JAPPA), and updates are more cohesive with strong themes and features. Every single thing is unique and opens up a world of possibilities people will want to explore. The oceans, the villagers and illagers, the piglins, the deep caves, amethyst, sculk, ancient cities, archaeology, and now ominous events. All of this attracted talented people who now work together to create experiences that fit the feel and vibe of the newer Minecraft.
I also think this is connected to the Internet as a whole. Things were a lot simpler back in the day. But now you see talented people making cool shit left and right, so it's not surprising things are of much higher quality now.
Definitely, times change as does everything that moves with it.
honestly fuck JAPPA. mods back in the day may not have stuck to a shared artstyle, but they had a coherent and unique style and personality within themselves. i can look at a machine and go "oh yeah that's that mod" from just the side texture of a random machine i might not even have used. nowadays most mods have the same style, with the same replaceable textures, i can hardly even tell them apart.
@@cmb9173 mans enjoys old netherack system I've been here since 1.8 not playing but watching and damm did that texture hurt me mentally
@@CTonYT old netherrack was clearly superior. it looks like sharp, jagged rock mixed with bloody guts, it's outright hostile, just like how literal _hell_ is supposed to look like. new netherrack just looks like they went "what if we took cobblestone, put a blur filter over it then made it red", it's boring and uninspired
@@cmb9173 Yeah, agree on that one.
1.12 was a wild era. there has never been a fauna mod as crazy as More Creeps and Weirdos for example.
Some modern mods that feel like classic 1.7.10 mods, that I recommend to check out, are SWD teams War of the Worlds Mod, and The Dalek Mod also made by SWD team. But the latter is an old mod that like Twilight forest is constantly being kept up to date, and is grow in size. Both of theses mods are work checking out and there to me at least feel ambitious just like the older 1.7.10 mods.
Love WOTW.
@@sacrificiallamb4568 same the WOTW mod is actually based of Jeff Wayne’s version bust also features elements from other adaptations. I highly recommend trying it out.
@@Jimbob_Offical I know, I've got it. Went to the real thing live too.
@@sacrificiallamb4568 Same, which tour?
From my experience, Minecraft 1.4.7 was the nostalgic peak of minecraft modding
The difference between forge and fabric for me is quality (fabric) vs quantity (forge), fabric is definitely what youd use for a QoL/vanilla+ modpack that runs buttery smooth, while forge you use for pure content and kitchen sink packs, but yeah even then modern day modding is nowhere near what it used to be
It really saddens me that I was really into modding Minecraft when I was a kid, and now that I have the capabilities to play these crazy mods, they just don’t exist anymore, or successors are so few and far between. I want to relive the nostalgia of crazy craft and that sorta thing but I just can’t as easily now.
you can go back to an older version of minecraft using the minecraft launcher, so that you can play these minecraft mods that dont get updated anymore.
All of them besides orespawn are still around and available to download.
@@_devotio_ personally I never understood the insane popularity of orespawn. it just seemed way too over-the-top in difficulty.
You are saying it as if you cant play them but you still can, you can even get orespawn if you know where to look
Its important to look at who these mods are being made for. Supply meets demand, even in the modding scene. There were more people back in the day who wanted those kinds of crazy mods out of Minecraft. Perhaps in recent times, the people who enjoy modding and creating mods for Minecraft have different wants.
imo the golden age of modded minecraft is from 1.7.10 to 1.12
3:50 ..... 3 hours?..... 3 hours?!??? This is a complete insult to modpack devs lol. I have spent HUNDREDS of hours on my modpacks :(((
@ShadowWolf2023-yp5zg oh for sure dude. It takes me an entire week to troubleshoot my modpacks when i'm doing large updates
I miss the days of Galacticcraft, thaumcraft, And being able to watch people play huge mod packs on TH-cam like attack of the B-team or crazy craft. Minecraft now just feels a lot more stale. Like aged bread. It’s edible, but it just doesn’t taste good.
I just came back to try and mod Minecraft fully expecting to make a modpack like attack of the b team for myself and welp nope lol I’m pretty mad about it ngl
you just earned a subscriber, great video bro
Thank you, I'm glad you enjoyed my silly rant :D
My take on this situation is that, Minecraft, being as old as it is, now has it’s own full identity, fleshed out by a major company and not an indie dev, most mods nowadays somewhat fit into Minecraft’s indenting and cater to the people who enjoy the game for that identity. The internet and the information available on it has also increased tenfold since those times so I suspect many people who would’ve been interested in making a Minecraft mod that changes the core gameplay and identity of the game have instead opted to work on their own original game as the resources for game development have been massively
increased and streamlined in the last decade
It’s funny you mention Draconic Evolution because it’s currently being updated to 1.20.1
It was updated as of 2 days before your comment :)
but orespawn still the superior mod than all and just have to 1.7.10
the answer to that question is that people are tired of learning new code after every update
This reminds me of clothing, and the Minecraft TH-cam videos you went over a week ago or something. My mom and a lot of other adults, really like the fun colored clothing. Like workout stuff for example. But it’s all either one color, or bland colors. And the kids get all the cool, colored, cute stuff that the adults like my mom would want. It’s all the same and it gets boring. Of course we have the rare find of colorful stuff but mostly, it’s the same and it’s a little sad. You can also see this on MatPat’s style theory on stitch fix and clothing and such. Fun clothing is fun and so are those wacky fun Minecraft mods that hit different. Maybe, people just gotta step out of their comfort zone and try something new, something fun, something wacky. I get it, companies are trying to make lots of money so colors and fun are not the first things that come to mind, and vanilla+ mods are simpler to make. But at the end of the day, try something new, step out of your comfort zone and make something fun that YOU’D like to play. Not something others would. Make something that you would think to be fun. Be creative. After all, Minecraft isn’t about restrictions, it’s about creativity and having fun. Like building a floating house or some giant tnt cannon. Basically, be creative and have fun, weather it is video games, clothing, crafts or whatever. Have fun :)
Good clothing metaphor, I think it applies very well to this scenario
Dragonblock C, (can't remember the name for the life of me, but the og COD Zombies mod), EVIL MINECRAFT, Orespawn, Aether...
Ahhhh how I miss you, my beloved oldschool mods...
(I love create mod since it's like literal fucking magic; so the vanilla+ trend thing isn't all negatives at least, but still...)
In short: I think it is because of fabric and the kind of mods it lends itself towards (vanilla+\client-side)
It's not the only reason, but IMO one of the main ones
The point at @1:02 is the key here. Mods nowadays are trying to make a cohesive experience while older mods were making unique experiences.
Mixing old mods never felt cohesive or organized, it always felt a little chaotic. Which was fun.
Cohesive mods aren't bad. They're a result of the more naturalized minecraft era.
I am working on a unique pack called "Planet of Glass" for 1.20.1, about being stranded on a glassed Mars.
That is an excellent birb avatar.
I personally think, that a big reason was the texture update. Vanilla Minecraft has a defined style now, so everyone tries to not look bad compared to it.
I think the biggest reason for the divide was 1.13. Update Aquatic did two things that made updating mods harder: they redid some of the base coding for Minecraft, and they shifted their goals when it came to new updates. 1.12.2 was considered the last great modding threshold before the vanilla+ mods of today, and the reason is because so much of the modding community didn’t move on from that version until a while later, but by that time those old mods were left in the dust.
That doesn’t mean they’re gone, though. Team Cofh is still updating Thermal Expansion, and they have the permissions to update Thaumcraft. Twilight Forest is still kicking, as is EE2. Even Draconic Evolution updated. Really the only mods that didn’t update were the ones who couldn’t compete with Create, like EnderIO and Extra Utilities.
There were a buch of smaller mods that got left behind too, for example the cyberware mod, afaik theres no modern equivelent to it so if i wanna be a cyborg im stuck in 1.12.2
Something I wish I saw more people make are small silly mods like clay soldiers, the portal gun mod, and the RC mod. These small mods are always good fun to mess with
The create mod went “Ight, factorio. I’m going on break!… And I’m back, let’s make an unnecessarily good mod with trains and cannons!”
There are no cannons in base create mod, its an addon developed by an entirely different person, a better example wouldve been "massive conveyor-based factories" or something like that
Me and my wife have talked about this pretty indepth recently and we miss the magic mods of days past that took adventure and real ingenuity, and old tech packs were DEFINITELY far more expansive , now it feels like every mod is a dungeouns+ mods that dont add anything special
I think the big problem with modding is there hasn’t been a big roadblock version to force all the modders to stick to one version for a year or two, like 1.8 and 1.9 were to 1.7 or 1.13 was to 1.12. There just hasn’t been enough time on any version for all the really complex expert packs to come out. Though the difference in power level between new and old mods is something I’ve also noticed, I threw together a quick kitchen sink recently for a friend new to modded and the only ways to get creative flight are mekasuit and supremium armor, there’s no way to from malum or occultism or ars nouveau, and occultism at least should have a way instead of multi jump 5 plus jump boost 3 plus slow falling. There’s also no big powerful end game tools to work towards except, again, the mekatool and supremium. Sure there’s some other options for weapons, but those are also things ported straight from the 1.12 version of the mod(I’m counting the mekasuit and mekatool as a port of modular power armor because they’re really very similar). Every mod I added that didn’t exist in 1.12 doesn’t add anything major to the game(except occultism ignoring the 4:3 ratio of raw ores to dust every other mod uses), or is create which doesn’t feel broken in the same way.
I completely agree with you, back in the day I watched a lot of 1.6.4 and 1.7.10 modpack let's plays and I loved everything about it, I can even remember when i had some sort of a Program to install mods from a list, 1.6.4 had BY FAR the most mods, 1.7.10 also had a lot but way less then 1.6.4, i remember when 1.8 and 1.9 came out and i looked at the mod list and it was almost empty compared to the older versions. I was hoping that it would change, but sadly it didn't and most of the complex and game changing mods don't exist today.
As a Minecraft mod developer, I do not focus much on vanilla plus content. Instead, I do add dimensions and bosses that do require a lot of preparation. Additionally, my goal for Deities Reborn (that’s the name of the mod, yes) is to add quite a lot of content while keeping the quality high and not poorly-made. You are meant to fight literal demons and gods in this mod as well with overpowered weapons that can be obtained before fighting them. I feel like vanilla plus mods are overused and modders should release their full potential and go all out on content and ideas. Thanks for this inspiring video!
Also, Deities Reborn is not publicized yet, but it will be once I feel like it’s time.
Sounds nice quick question do u summon them with rituals I'm a big fan of ritual magic lol
@@CTonYT Some of them do have special requirements, yeah. Some can be the same method for various bosses, but there is a final superboss that is planned to be the almighty god of reality that is required to defeat all of the other regular bosses and superbosses first before you can summon him. He will be the ultimate and final showdown and you need to have the appropriate gear (Hypernova armor and so on).
The list goes as followed for the currently planned superbosses of Deities Reborn (I don’t feel like the regular bosses should be shown right now because there are a lot of those planned):
- Scarlet Eminence (blood god)
- The Beast (god of Hell/Nether)
- The Serpent God (god of dragons and hydras)
- Zahin (interstellar titan)
- Eva (elder goddess of positivity, light, and life)
- Arius (elder god of negativity, darkness, and death)
- The Reality God (the highest elder god of the cosmos)
@@VaemaEX nice imma yoink some of your names for my novel heheheheh
Just wait till you see Vault Hunters
I disagree with the sentiment that the quality of minecraft mods are diminishing or sticking to "vanilla+" there are some FANTASTIC mods out there especially on modern versions of the game (example: L enders cataclysm, iron's spells and spellbooks, alex's caves, epic fight, dungeon now loading, the abyss chapter 2, etc.)
I feel as thought the problem is more or less the community and "the java problem". When you have all of these amazing mods stuck on certain versions of the game or gated behind a certain modloader then it makes it really hard for them to get the spotlight they deserve. The reson why most of the top mods are vanilla+ is casue those are the easiest to port from version to version.
You keep bringing up the "Microsoft era" but the real transition to "vanilla plus" feels it happened between 1.13 -> 1.16 (mainly 1.16)
As as modder.... Minecraft stopped at 1.12.2 for over 2 years. These days, new versions come out every 6 to 8 months.
You don't have *time* to do intricate work like you used to.
MacTso
Two Guys
Not a single mod from the modern day, has reached the levels of creativity of 1.7.10 era. Ars magica 2 is a great example, thaumcraft 4, blood magic, etc.
One word, Orespawn.
If your looking in the right places it's not dead or even that many less, it's just the way that things like curse organize by is how frequently the mod is used so the mods that fit in the most packs appear first and those are vanilla plus
As a mod dev that burned out (mostly because of real life and phd) and got my most ambitious mod (prodigy tech) stuck in old versions while only barely managing to port my simpler mods (like glassential or meet your fight) to modern versions (still not done for 1.20.1, burn out sure is awful), I think the minecraft update schedule is a big part in this.
Just to cover the eras I knew, 1.7.10 (june 2014) was the major version for a while, then was dethroned by 1.12.2 (september 2017), which then due to the major roadblock that was the 1.13 id changes + forge using that to get a full rewrite, we only ever got a new "major version" at like 1.16.5 (january 2021) (1.14.4 (july 2019) wasn't as big from what I remember). 3~4 years is a lot of times for people to develop complex mods and make ambitious modpacks.
Then 1.19.2 (august 2022) was only a year later, and 1.20.1 (june 2023) is still just one year later (with 1.21 (june 2024) also a year later), that is a lot less time to get yourself a big mod. Add to that the much more frequent breaking changes, even in minor versions (hello 1.19.3 completely reworking how creative tabs work, and 1.21 completely reworking the internals of enchantments), and what you end up with is only the small mods managing to comb through it.
Indeed, when your mod is big and complex, not only do you have more maintenance to do to get through a port, it's also more likely you were using some random system you were relying on gets reworked (like how many times worldgen was reworked in consecutive updates).
Well yes, there were several versions in between 1.12 and 1.19, but then when things move like that you don't really get a point to settle on, especially when you have to rewrite several parts to get your mod up and running.
It might not be the only reason (modders growing up and having real life get in their way is likely another big one (hey like for me!) with porting being mostly a chore for an activity you were doing on the side for fun), but then a decrease in mods results in a decrease in options for modpack makers and then boom.
And sidenote: Mekanism is still being up to date (it's on 1.20.1 and 1.21), Thermal is on 1.20.1 (though I think it's going through a rewrite?), Botania is on 1.20.1 (hasn't moved a bit, but that mod is pretty much finished), and you got a few new fun stuff like Alex's Caves.
And then on top of that we had the Fabric/Forge split and then last year the Forge/NeoForge split.
My programming partner stretched to support Forge but has *no* interest in going to NeoForge (which several major mods did do). And if we did, then we would be maintaining *three* codebases. I just spent the entire night converting 5 of my mods to Forge 1.21.1 and 1.21.2 is just around the corner. I have about 10 more mods (each increasingly larger) to convert before I'm done.
What happened to minecraft mods:
"end of puberty", "almost nothing new", "sophistication time"
what modpack were you playing in the background
A personally modified version ofFTB Infinity evolved; I added other mods like magic crops and modular power suits, galactic craft etc just because they blend so well. The other one was a slightly modified version of "Create Perfect World" which we streamed for a little while :D
tysm
@@JustVoid17
That tech suit mod is a core memory for me and is one of the coolest mods ive ever seen and i have no idea what it is
It is a mix nostalgia-blindness and just the community changing overtime (similar to art movements or cultural shifts). Things aren't worse, stale or bland, as we get older we just tend to miss the past more. There are quotes and writings from centuries ago where people are talking about how things in their generation was better, humans have been doing this for awhile and it applies here too 🤷♂️
That AE2 transmutation table you showed for a brief moment made me feel so old. I was playing this mod like THIRTEEN years ago. That's like half of my lifetime magically disappearing to highschool, university, some pandemic bullshit
What happened was folks seemed to feel that minecraft needed to be "minecrafty" and use that pallet of 16x16 and neutral colors. I recently made a cool Minecraft structure mod and was scolded for using colors that were too contrasting.
One of my favorite mods currently is Alex's Caves and that mod, while not as notacibly different on the surface kinda blends the Vanilla Plus feel with something wholly unique
One thing I noticed hurt modding seriously was Mojangs post purchase attitude to updates and content.
What was the last version with stable and well fermented modding communities? The constant updates hurt modders badly. So many old complex ones dropped out during that time. So small "vanilla+" mods that needed very little updating just survived the process.
Mojang 100% is the cause of shift with major mods. There used to a huge amount of compatibilitypatches and "connecting" mods too but it became practically impossible to maintain those.
We are just in recent years finally seeing a slow revitalization of major mods. But that is going to take some timeto heal.
Similar issue for Warcraft 3, Blizzard was intentional in making sure updates do not break mods, so a mod made 10 years ago would work just fine, that is till reforged which broke everything.
A smarter studio would release reforged as a standalone, but Blizzard isn't known for good business practices...
That’s why I can’t wait for the full release of chaos awakens
People like Minecraft now, Old-gen mods were the way they were because people didn't care for the base game.
I think one of the issues is that there are no large TH-camrs making lets plays around mod packs. Back in the day watching those Yogscast Technic lets plays inspired me to make a similar world with my friends.
Glad I'm not the only one that feels the same way.
1.6.4, 1.7.10 and 1.12.2 modded minecraft just hit different.
Modpacks like E2E or Crash Landing. Mods like IndustrialCraft, ThermalExpansion, Mekanism, Botania...
These are REAL MODS. They are unique, balanced and fun to play.
Nowadays everything is vanilla+ or QOL. Zero creativity.
I mean we also can't blame the devs. Remember what happened to the EnderIO devs?
What happened to them?
Clown
@@Sebastian-bo7vj according to other comments on this video? they got real-world jobs but are still working on updating.
I think its just that modders wanted to expand their audience, many older mods were obviously very niche, and quite frankly if you look at the growth of the modding community post 1.16 its literally been exponential (JEI for example went from 80 million to nearly 400 million)
I feel like another thing is that what people look for in mods has shifted in part because Minecraft is *old* now, back in the day there wasn't really a sense of "minecrafty". in the 1.7 days people REALLY didn't give much of a regard to cohesion and i feel like it's because there wasn't much nostalgia there.
Nowadays people like minecraft's "thing". Pixelmon, for example, is textbook old school modding, not even the lightest attempt to fit into Minecraft, just straight up pokemon models.
Now there's stuff like Cobblemon, which isn't "a pokemon game but minecraft", it's "minecraft with pokemon".
I mean old minecraft mods are a real anomaly, most modding communities revolve around adding or enhancing things that connect to the rest of the game, modern modding is a lot more like that, I mean Create on it's own is automation in service of getting items from Minecraft for the most part.
I do in part miss the old style of modding, but i feel like i had the opposite problem that you had, where all mods were so hell bent on just cramming as much as possible into themselves that modded Minecraft looked like an MMO where everything blended together in a cloud of clashing artstyles and esoteric ui elements
Oh, and recolored iron ingots too, of course.
For me, a big difference between eras is scale and synergy. For most of the OG mods, they were made by themselves with maybe some add-ons (like Tinker's Construct) while mods nowadays act as parts of a puzzle. You can download like 5 mods a few years ago and spend a few months. Now, those 5 mods are a few weeks of work. Create is a big exception, which I enjoy
what modpack is he playing?
For me personally, its definitely because I want a more laidback experinece where im playing Minecraft with mods, not a mod based off Minecraft. Too many old mods focus on gettung as close to creative as possible rather than stick to survival
For anyone like me getting into modding and/or developing mods, here's my piece of advice:
Vanilla+ is a great way to base your mod. However, like Void explains, it gets stale, and quickly at that. So here's what you do; Screw it. Take your wildest, most chaotic ideas and just make them. Throw caution to the wind, and make an entire extra game in Minecraft. Have Fun. And most of all, don't be scared to try something new. Whether you are making a Forge or Fabric mod, if it's magic, tech, or adventure, do whatever you want, no holds barred.
vanilla+ is ass, nobody likes that, whe just uses bc theres no good mods for recent versions
from what ive noticed a trend in: fabric is more aesthetics, and forge is the content mods
Thats why i still play 1.7.10 and 1.12.2
I will be completely honest, I am a big fan of Vanilla+ Mods, and never really liked to play a lot of the Mods that just "Did not feel like minecraft" for extended periods of time, so I like the current modding scene more than the one back then.
It is really up to preference
Thermal Expansion isn't gone
It's out for 1.20.1
EnderIO also.
Mekanism has almost always been around.
Actually Additions is available for 1.20.4
@@alomac8976still waiting for new enderio to add the dark and end steel armor, I love modular armor
@@Jacob-sr2wd its still in alpha and most of the team is working full time jobs so they said they will add everything back itll just take time
Actually, all the mods he mentioned we don't really see anymore are still around. And Crazy Craft is a modpack, so don't really know why he grouped it in with mods.
@kristinagraversgaard5328 it seems like he was using mod and modpack interchangeably.
I was shown this video in my Discord Server, and it reminded me why i got into mod making.
Everyone in my server knows I'll never do Vanilla Plus because there is too much of it.
Now that I'm hearing it I want my wild mods again!
hm, that’s why i made a vanilla styled modpack but with a completely different goal and progression : i wanted the game to be minecraft but not like a « vanilla plus » but a « vanilla two/sequel » where the main vanilla stuff is finished in 3 hours of gameplay, and everything else is pure excitement about power with a mix of over the top with op equipment and numbers, and balance with difficulty scaling in an interesting way, i wanted to make a Minecraft whose progression is THE focus and i worked really hard to make it interesting and pretty much succeeded: mostly around improved mobs, scaling health, astemir forestcraft, ars nouveau, ice and fire, l_ender cataclysm and others, i made a vanilla styled modpack with a different feel. feeling like an mmorpg where you’re constantly trying to maximize your dps and survivability in a constantly evolving world involving lots of different strategies with guns, weapons types, spells, artifacts and a lot more. my modpack isn’t yet on curseforge but it will be someday.
name :Git Gud Craft
Mods used to individually be funny or wacky or add a unique element to the game - modern mods feel like they're all trying to be a puzzle piece in a larger puzzle.
I feel like this is more of a trend with the gaming industry itself, modders would prefer to make something safe and not take a risk with making something that isnt just vanila+, no very complex mods. We probably wont have the golden age of 1.7.10 and 1.12.2 modding and modpacks for a while.
There's a golden age right now for the new gen playing it, we're just too old to experience it
You know what I miss about old minecraft? those old official modpacks, Yogbox, Hack/Slash, Technic , those mods were probably the most fun I had with modded Minecraft especially Yogbox where I used to play it daily, didnt knew what I was doing but I had tons of un
Because modern Minecraft is more rpg than sandbox nowadays. Minecraft used to be "do all you want", "define your expierence " sandbox with a little sprinkle if ender dragon and nether fortresses to add dome exploration. Today its "play crazy rpg adventure and maybe build a house or some crazy stupid farm if you feel like it" type of game and you either build on this predetermined playstyle or choose older version and define your expierence.
I do belive nostalgia also affects this as well. as today we can't replicate that feeling of a door opening for the first time again