🔴 What Does This Do?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 25 ส.ค. 2024
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Matthew Hoover 83631509
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Understand I’m not a lawyer nor have I played one in a movie the things I talk about in my videos are strictly for conversation or entertainment purposes only!
Any knife with a groved blade, and is capable of more than six consecutive stabs without reloading, is considered by the state of California to be an assault knife, and is hereby banned.
Barny Brewman. That sounds about the truest thing i heard. In NY we banned fuckin hot dogs.
The ban every thing in califorina. so that means nothing.
@@aaglad8604 and wee keep electing the nuts.
@@aaglad8604
For dealing in swollen goods?
Aw, c'mon, it wasn't _that_ bad! Lmao.
Yeah I have to eject my shotgun shells after 2 stabs from my knife
After reading 40-50 posts arguing the name of that grove. I realized. I need to get a life.
Lol
I am a bladesmith and I can confirm that it's called a fuller and it is usually to lighten the blade
Sometimes it aids on cutting and stabbing (depending on the kind of fuller you have on it) for example the bo hi which is thinner and deeper and works more on its advantage to break a vaccum
And I myself think that thick shallow fullers on swords aid on edge alignment
It's to hold the blade in your teeth while you are boarding a ship. Arrrrr. 🏴☠️😁
Still not seccessful?
A grove is a stand of trees.
Its a bite grip for pirates so they can have a weapon out while swinging like Tarzan from ship to ship
R/youngpeopleyoutube
👍👍
Sounds legit.
That's exactly what I was thinking when I clicked on the video! Seriously. It was sarcastic in nature, if course, but I was thinking "the groove is there for your teeth when you hold the knife in your mouth, like a pirate, DUHH!" 🤣😂🤷♂️
That’s what I thought lol
“Bloodgroove” Sounds like a father whose child asked a question that he had no clue on and didn’t want to say “I don’t know” and that was the first thing that came to his mind
Literally what my dad told me
Lot of dads telling kids this out there I suppose, but I know I never heard it from mine. I'm at a loss for an example to show you right away, but I know I learned the term reading product descriptions on websites from which I was buying knives, so it's a pretty commonly used term - though, I've always found it a bit odd, myself.
I have no strong opinion on this, but I'm gonna start calling it a blood groove just to annoy people who are easily triggered.
Hahahaha
Same!
Lol
IT'S FULLER!!... You Mother ... let's take it outside.
I been doing that for decades
It's for a mounting bracket, put your night vision scope on it
I want an assault knife with a thermal scope, laser, flashlight, vertical foregrip, and bayonet lug.
This is the real purpose..
I was told it was for small piles of cocaine
CRS Firearms y didn’t u mention that in the video lol
LOL I just visualised that😂. Great for a Scottish kiss in the moonlight, don’t know why but your comment really ticked me. The vision of a nutcase with a blade strapped to his head n using „the groove“ for his nightvision so he can headbutt something
It's called a "fuller" and it's added during the forging process using a tool called a "fullering swage". The blade is heated and pressed between the swage halved, and the steel is displaced leaving the groove, no steel is removed during this process so no weight is lost, the reason people believe the fuller reduces the weight is because a non-fullered blade would need to be somewhat more bulky to achieve the same results. Now what does it do well as I said it doesn't reduce the weight, and it also doesn't increase the tensile strength of the steel, the tempering process does that. What the fuller does is increase the rigidity of the blade. It does this by dispersing any torsion applied to the blade over a larger surface area and over more linear plains, the same principal that causes corrugated cardboard to be more rigid than an equal thickness of flat card stock... that being said some swords do have ground fullers, the katanna you showed for example, they are rarely wider than a pencil point and ride very high on the blade, they do slightly lighten the blade and make it more ridgid, however they are mainly for aesthetics. A "blood groove on a katana is impracticable since a katana is designed for slashing not thrusting, same goes for a saber or any other curves sword.
As far as the military calling it a "blood groove" that is also true. The reason behind that is when you are training recruits to kill it's more logical to use that from a psychological standpoint than to give them an hour long class on the physics of blade construction. As far as companies like Buck calling it a blood groove, that could be one of two reasons. 1 they fell for the myth. Or 2 they are feeding the myth.
As far as the test video there are way too many variables there to take it seriously, first off the blades would need to be identical aside from the fuller i.e. length, width, thickness, level of sharpness and surface polish. Also the gel would need to be the same viscosity, and it would need to be two separate blocks otherwise the first wound would cause enough difference in surface tension to alter the results of the second knife. A better test medium would be a side of beef or similar meat since skin bone tendons and connective tissue would be more likely the cause resistance tothe blade that simple hydrostatic suction caused by blood.
Ron just adding to what you said.
The fuller on a sword is made by a blacksmiths (swordsmiths ) tool called a fuller.
The fuller was hammered into the steel when it was heated. It was NOT ground out of the steel. So the weight of the sword did not change.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuller_(metalworking)
In the katana, such a groove also reduces mass that would be so far above the cutting edge that it would tend to cause twisting during a cut. I've used such blades for tameshigiri and I've found that those with a fuller give me a cleaner cut with less tendency to twist. The only improvement I've ever found to this were hira-zukuri blades with minimal "niku". They cut better but for a completely different reason and I'm not sure I'd want to carry one into battle.
@@brentthekiwi5798 That's not adding to what he said, it's just repeating it. You've pointed out that the weight of the sword didn't change. You've missed the fact that weight to width ratio, did.
You are well educated 👍👍👍
@@MrMZaccone correct
The fuller on a blade is meant to change the tempering properties of the blade during construction. Pre-Industrial Rev. Blades were forged, not machined, therefor no weight has been lost, only redistributed. That said, adding a fuller makes the metal thinner in that particular area as opposed to everywhere else. A blade is tempered to give it a relatively flexible edge, so as not to chip, and a rigid spine(if it has only one cutting edge) The fuller, such as on the USMC knife featured here, is a thin area that tempers similar to the edge, aka, it tempers flexibly, so as not to chip or crack but instead bend and retract. The intended purpose of this is that in the event that the blade were torqued or twisted, it would have a small about of flex and spring retention before it snapped clean off the way it would if it were thick and tempered like the rest of the thicker spine. A fuller is STRUCTURAL.
And that, makes perfect sense in terms of Samurai swords too. As the idea behind the construction is flex mixed with rigidity and that's how the master sword makers design it. Rigid edge, with a flexible back, yup and they are tempered different for that very reason. Clay is used to cover one half of the sword while the other is tempered unprotected by clay and the result is different hardness. The same exists in sawmill blades too. As a former Sawfiler, the idea was, we would stretch the middle of the saw with rollers (and before those back in the day, tensioning hammers) to make it more flexible, behind the cutting edge. When they spin at speed, (or in the case of a band saw, pulled between two big wheels) this allows some flex in the middle of the blade under tension and keeps the edge running true and rigid and reduces vibration at high speed too. The thinking is remarkably similar.
Those swords (the real, traditionally made forged ones, by hand and very expensive) are designed like that, because if they weren't they would be too brittle, when impacting hard targets (like other swords, armour etc) and more prone to breaking, chipping etc. like you said (spot on and excellent description by the way) and it's easier on the wielder too as it is slightly more accurate too and less jarring when impacting those hard targets. By giving it more flex mixed with rigid it gives you the best of both worlds and ultimately, more durability, less broken swords, lol, which back in the day I am sure was of utmost importance, as it took sooooo long to produce just one. So you wanted to make them last. I think it's probably the best compromise you could possibly have. You still get a rigid, effective cutting surface, but with the flex it needs not to break. Win, win.
There is to many variables in knife making like low and high carbon steels if it's laminated or folded can make the properties of cutting tools different and steel can be hardend, soffend, annealed normalized and temperd to fit the bill of the tool. I believe a good knife should have a hardend tuff edge and a maluable spine. A hard edge for edge retention and a soft spine so it won't break but you can engineer steel for many propertys and many ways to temper. And modern steel milltary knives are tempered in a oven as to the type of steel it is and is not differtialy heat treated.
Finally someone that understands basic physics and metallurgy.
@@dickhurtz1862 Comes from a lifetime of blacksmithing and a full time career in fabricator welding. Steel has been my life, for my life.
I hope you’re ready for this explanation. I was told many years ago by an old Arizona rancher that the blood groove was to make it easier to pull out of a wet leather sheath. Old sheaths weren’t always the best leather or very well tanned so sometimes they swelled and hung on to the blade. Just sharing that one with you.
Thanks
It a good one to because it’s very plausible
And actually makes a lot of sense
Owning a couple old plain leather sheaths, I tested this. Turns out knives with the fuller were just as resistant to being extracted from a wet leather sheath as very similar knives without the fuller. The leather just gets sucked closed into the groove creating a vacuum. Probably much like human flesh would do.
@@MikeC9903 is right, from my experience. Not with sheaths, but with leather gloves. They are stiff and actually rather irritating on the hands when dry, but once fully wetted, they stick to your skin and flop around like . . . well . . . floppy things, lol
Wouldn't it make much more sense to engineer the sheath to prevent this from happening than the knife? Poke a hole in the bottom of the sheath, problem solved.
@@MikeC9903 No, the sides of the sheath will still stick like almost-glue. Go get a pair of gloves and wet them down. Wet leather just sticks to stuff, holes or no. You'd need some kind of skeleton; stiff scabbard-like thing or some-such . . .
Buck knives call it a blood groove.🔪 I guess if you make the knife and call it a blood groove, then it's a mf blood groove.
Dam right
No It just shows someone at buck knew that blood groove was better for marketing purposes than fuller ...
so does KA-BAR.
I make my knives with a full length peanut butter groove.
Lol
When you're out in 'The bush' it's a good way too measure how much "Coke" to do, and not over board with it, still stay sane.
I'm just gonna use an "i" beam next time I stab something, to avoid confusion.
🤣
Make sure the I Beam has a Blood Groove.ijs
"Some people calls it a Kaiser blade but I just calls it a sling blade"
Hahaha
Uh-huh
I reckon I'll have me some of them french fried taters mmmm
mmmmmm hm.
Where you goin wit dat sac fulla warsh?
It ain't got no gas in it!
It's actually there so you can hold the knife with your teeth.
Hahaha
Could end up with a fu*ken BIG mouth bro.
@@tandjrogers if you do, you were holding it the wrong way! The sharp side points away.
@@PayNoTax-GetNoVote Why so serious?
Duh, these morons obviously never been on the front lines before. Talking like they know shit, but anyone who's been down range knows that you bite down on that blood groove while passing the weekly bowels. Kinda like a stick, but deadlier.
Marine boot camp combat instructors and DI’s called it a blood groove as did my buddies in 3rd Recon in Nam; I remember being told it was for weight reduction and strength and other reason that turned out to be incorrect. In swords this process is called fullering. Other beliefs such as vacuums being created fall into the category of Urban Myths. I still throw my K-Bar at least once a week and by far is my favorite to carry or throw. SF
Don't tell your buddies this, but the reason it got called a groove rather than a fuller is because the French called it a "gouttierre" or gutter/groove. Over the years, this got misinterpreted to mean it's purpose was a blood gutter/groove, when actually it was simply describing the physical appearance.
When I was in the Marine Corps at the tender age of 19, I didn’t care about a “blood grove” or any other type of grove. I know for a fact that it works in a stabbing or slicing situation. That’s what I care about. I would almost trust my
K-Bar over any firearm. If you’re worried about how much pressure it takes to withdraw your knife, perhaps you should consider carrying more ammo or joining the Air Force.
Amen Devil Dog .i remember our DI say a Ka-Bar needs it to aid in the sucking of a wound. & how the muscle tissue contracts around the blade... And the one hand isn't strong enough sometimes to withdraw the knife . yet a bayonet is attached to a rifle thats held by 2 hands and is easier to withdraw from a body
@@larryterry7874 what's the spirit of the bayonet!?! Kill!!!!!!!
@@coltenbrown6937 that's exactly what I used mine for.
@Jones no they don’t use knives because smert go plane fly woo and brain over brawn xd
@@larryterry7874 but most stab wounds are bigger than the blade itself do to some slicing being done while pushing in and pulling out so those muscles touching the edge of the blade get sliced most of the time and the wound sucking isn’t a big deal due to the wound not being the same size as the blade. Just gotta pull down to slice and make the wound bigger while pulling the knife out, twist the blade as you pull, or push the blade sideways to cause the skin and muscle to stretch/tear. I’d only ever recommend the last one if it goes between the ribs, surprisingly easy to crack/break them that way. Key point is don’t just push in and pull out, move the blade as you pull it out to avoid any issues and produce maximum results.
I think they put the groove on the knifes to give guys something to argue about while their sitting around the camp fire.
Hahaha right on
Ayup
While "they're" sitting around the campfire.
Is it too much for people to stop being dumbasses?
@Jeff Rasberry That's what I was thinkin'.............
Look at the comments. It worked.
I like where your going with this. My grandpa WW2 vet called it a blood groove, my Uncle Vietnam vet called it a blood groove, my father Army Vet non-combat called a blood groove and my hand to hand combat instructor at the San Diego MCRD (Marine Corps Basic Training) called it a blood groove and added that some call it a fuller nither one has anything to do with blood but to help in the extraction from your enemies body. I going off of what I have been taught my whole life, now 51 call it a blood groove. I'm okay with it!
Right on
Dummy that's what they mean it's to help u extract it when in a enemy and blood all over to give grip ..English guy arguing it's a slang for it
Just because it was known as that for ages doesn't mean it isn't wrong.
What do you call it what is it for
Its actually to make the bladder more rigid it has nothing to do with pulling it out of a body.
The Fuller is designed to heighten the sensation of the thrust and withdraw. That's why Trojan incorporated that feature in their products.
how does it do that?
I'm going to call it a blood groove....because it sounds cool
Hell ya
USMC K-BAR it's called a blood groove. Who in the crap cares if it
" triggers" anyone.
Lol
I am so offended right now 😂😂😂
Oh no butt hurt trigged LoL
It's the fucking crayon eaters they aren't exactly authority's on classic bladesmithing
@@tatsuhirosatou5513 But we are authorities on killing.... :)
@@tatsuhirosatou5513 -- Tell the truth...You wanted to be a Marine but you couldn't hack it.
On the blue print from Kabar submitted to the usmc it is called a blood groove. So on this knife at least that is the appropriate name for it.
Right on
It was going to the marines it was probably in crayon too so they could understand it.
@@tatsuhirosatou5513 , what are you suggesting exactly? I guess you're unaware that US Marines fly some of the most sophisticated aircraft..... 🤔
@@_Thoughtful_Aquarius_ actually they don't, marines don't have pilots they are all navy.
@@tatsuhirosatou5513 I did like the crayon comment, just because I was in the Army Infantry and we say that about Marines all the time. However you are ignorant as fuck to think that Marines do not have their own pilots. If you truly believe your own ignorance, please explain the 7500 series MOS's to me in the Marines. I will wait for this reply, as it should be really good.
The whole "blood gutter" concept makes no damn sense at all.
If you're bleeding because someone stuck a sharp piece of metal in you, you're not in trouble because your blood is coming out of your *skin*, it's because your blood is coming out of your *arteries and veins*. When the sharp piece of metal is pulled out you're *still bleeding internally*. Whether it's coming out of the wound or not makes no difference.
The point of twisting a knife, sword or bayonet before removing it is to make the wound bigger and to cut something you may have just barely missed on the way in, to increase bleeding. Again, internally, not externally.
There's no "suction" to fight while pulling a blade out but there is *friction*. The amount of friction is proportional to the surface area of the blade in contact with internal organs and muscle. Reducing the amount of surface area that causes friction... reduces the friction!
As for what fullers do to blade strength, there are two ways to make fullers; they can be forged into the blade using swages called, not coincidentally, "fullers". One is a block of metal with a hump that's clamped into a vise, the other a block with a hump and a flat side for hammering. The hot blank is put between them and hammered as it's drawn between them. The humps push their way into the hot metal. The other way is to cut/grind/sand them into a cold blade. The first way alters the crystal structure of the steel in the fuller in ways that some believe adds to the resilience of a blade while removing metal just weakens and lightens a blade.
I heard it called a blood gutter, a coarser term. When a blade enters a body, I heard that the muscles automatically tighten around the foreign object trying to protect the body from damage. Having a recessed area on at least two sides should help break the suction even with the muscles tightening around it in a circular fashion. By the way, fullers is a term used mostly in sheet metal, where the fullers or corrugation type shape adds rigidity to a flat surface allowing thinner material to be used.
The blood groove is so my hands are much Fuller of my enemies blood. Knife puns, good times.
Lol
Your a sharp guy, with a good point.
NOICE!!!!!!!
That rapier wit!
Careful you don't cut yourself on that sharp wit, bro. Lol.
Oh, and I’m 52, heard it called a blood groove since I knew what a knife was.
Right
Well, I'm pushing 70 and I've heard it called both.
Take care and keep your barrel clean.
Me to
I'm 70 and from where I come, where lots of blood is the norm , we call it the Blood canal ..
Blood Grove /canal slang term in usa Fuller probably the technical name but its the same shit ..isn't there to make blade stronger. For helping blood go away from grip and hand ..just like a canal rendirects water
In the Marine Corps we called it a blood groove on K bars. I never really questioned it too much because it just made sense to me.
Ka-bar
Kalle Klæp yes thank you. It’s been a while.
Trigger warning,I'm just gonna call it a Blood groove.
Haha
I am a kitchen cook who frequently butchers meat and cuts blocks of cheese. I always called this the "non-stick" groove. It makes it to where the blade doesn't stick so much when cutting things like hard cheese but "blood groove" sounds so much cooler. Gotta use that next time with my customers.
That's what I was thinking about at first. He only talks about stabbing with the knife, but you can slice with it. Like you say, some kitchen knives have cut aways to help prevent food from sticking to them when slicing.
I love the way your brain works. If you’re like me it’s all automatic how you analyze things. You can’t help but question the narrative.
Did you just use the word narrative??? Man you sound intelligent...
Some people have only heard it called a Blood Groove. When I was in U.S.M.C. Bootcamp that is what we were told the groove was and it was there to relieve suction. It wasnt for years later when my brother in law became a knifesmith that he told me what it is called a Fuller and has to do with the strength of the blade.
As a weapons instructor, I was told to explain to the trainees that the fuller as how to let air in to ease taking out the weapon; it is not there to let out blood; who wants to go from camo to red in a second? Think foot in mud, but of you can inject air between mud and foot out you come more readily.
Thank you for the feedback
An I Beam is strong and lighter. The fuller reduces weight but also adds protection from flexing.
That wasn’t just a rabbit hole, that was a whole freaking warren.
Lol
@CRS Firearms
I'm fairly certain that the purpose of a fuller is to make the knife more resistant to breakage from impact, and not to either 'remove weight' or 'prevent vacuum'. When a piece of steel impacts something energy is transferred from the point of impact through the mass of the steel as a pressure wave. In a uniform piece of hardened steel, the pressure wave often leads to fracturing of the steel, because steel resists compression considerably. What the fuller does is to create an area of deformable mass, where the pressure wave can distort the material instead of transmitting that kinetic energy to the most rigid point and fracturing the 'grain' of the steel. In a single edge blade, the area most prone to breakage (from a pressure wave) is the spine and in a double edged blade is the central ridge. Fullers, unless used for decorating a blade, are typically employed on blades that are designed to impact a heavy and resilient material. An analogy to this pressure wave effect (yay to the conservation of momentum, right?) is easily found in the old Newton's Cradle. The individual crystal structures of the steel transmit energy with relatively little loss, much the same as the steel bearings in a Newton's Cradle transmit the force from one end through a row of bearings and back again with a pendular action. Adding the fuller to a blade is like making the center of that row of bearings more elastic. A Newton's Cradle wouldn't work especially well if the center ball was made of soft rubber that couldn't transmit the energy, would it? That's what the fuller does. It's a dampener. It does serve the anecdotal purpose of reducing weight in an exceptionally large blade, and I doubt one could argue that it has no measurable effect on the surface tension of the blade when inserted into a soft media, but it's purpose is, was, and has always been, to prevent a blade from cracking when subjected to impact. Funny how smiths from as far back as the outset of the iron age could understand the practical use of a fuller in a weapon, but today we've not only lost the point, but people argue something as silly as whether to call it a blood groove or not.
Jonathan Smith, the best explanation I have heard
A* top marks
Spot on.
Fullers serve three major purposes, 1. Increasing the structure strength. 2. Sending a dirty pocket of air into the victim’s torso. 3. Causing both, external and internal bleeding.
When I was little, me & my Dad determined, thru official testing of course, that the blood groove/fuller was there to help slice thru a block of sharp cheddar cheese more easily. It helped the slices not stick to the blade. lol. Good memory.
That was my understanding as well.
ON WISCONSIN
Reduced contact with the blade and less friction.
So it's a cheese groove!
A "blood groove" is nothing but a myth generated many years ago . It does nothing to increase the velocity of pulling a blade out of an opponent in combat . This "suction" nonsense is just crap .
Think about it -> The edges of a blood groove are simply an additional geometry which will "hang up" on ribs , bones , tissue , military web gear etc.
A fuller does nothing for the structural integrity or strength of a blade . The origins of a fuller come from sword making when a device kept the sword centered during the forging process . This gave the sword equilateral symmetry ... geometry .
A Kabar combat knife is a prime example of wasted manufacturing time in creating a fuller / "blood groove" . In no way does removing material make a blade stronger .
Israel copied the Kabar for its' armed forces and there is no fuller = They didn't waste their time during the process of making a very good combat / utility knife .
I've been a mechanical engineer for 35 years and a knife maker for over 50 years .
Sorry you are incorrect. Fullering takes place quite late in the forging process. See my comment for a fuller explanation if you’ll excuse the pun!
I have news for you simon - Many many knives with fullers are not forged . The fuller material and the rest of the knifes geometry is removed by * stock removal .
I find it funny you have to include that you're a mechanical engineer and for 35yrs. no less. Being a steamfitter for 22yrs., I've been constantly fixing engineers mistakes so I'm not surprised you don't understand how a blood groove would break a vacuum.
Being what is essentially a plumber , you wouldn't understand . You need to get out more . My biz is aircraft and aerospace .
You seem to impress yourself by continuously telling us your resume. DON'T CARE! You obviously lack common sense. That along with all your accolades you could almost make it as a steamfitter, or a plumber for that matter.
The groove is what is called a blood Gutter or groove as in like roof gutters and almost serves the same function, but not quit, It was invented century's ago for swords and daggers, so that when the blade was thrust into a body it would not vacuum lock in the body as was the case before they became standard for battle blades, It makes it much easier and faster to remove the blade from your opponents guts all that is required is a sharp twist and pull, whereas previous to it you practically had to stand on your opponents chest to pull your blade out. That is why when the Marine Corps was looking for a new fighting knife before WWII one of the requirements was a blood gutter, The result was the ubiquitous K_BAR. This information was imparted to me by my hand to hand combat instructor while training at Parris Island circa 1967. I was called upon to use this knowledge a year later while serving in Southeast Asia AKA Vietnam. So I do have practical knowledge on how well the BLOOD GUTTER functions.And you know Brits they have there own way of saying things.
Thank you for your service, and the valuable info!
I don't doubt what your drill instructor may have told you in training, but just because the sergeant said it doesn't mean it's correct. Look at sword and dagger designs throughout history from the Bronze Age onward--there is no clear trend toward the universal use of fullers on blades. If the fuller really had that purpose, don't you think that all swords after a certain period, especially those intended for thrusting, would have had fullers? Moreover, consider that many sword types more suited to cutting than thrusting (e.g. falchions and Viking-age swords) had fullers, whilst swords clearly oriented for thrusting like estocs and rapiers often do not.
Likewise, many effective daggers do not have fullers.
3:35 the thickness does matter, it's literally how you define the stress in metal. Force/area which will give you measurement in Pascals or PSI. The thicker it is, the more force will be required to break it.
I beams work by increasing stiffness by increasing the "area moment of inertia", which basically characterises it's deflection on loading. A basic way to look at it is to get a long slice of sheet metal. Area moment inertia is axis dependent. So when you take the area moment of inertia of the sheet metal laying flat, it is very low, and thus bends quite easily in that direction. But flip it up on it's edge, and try to bend it in that direction, it barely moves, because now the dimensions are upright and so the area moment of inertia is much higher.
I'm 52 years old and every source I've read through time has called it a blood "channel" or a wound channel. It was created in Greco-Roman times and it was designed not only to facilitate quicker removal from a body by breaking the vacuum but to keep that wound open should the blade be left in an opponent for some reason.
Makes sense thank you for the feedback
Sorry. Roman legionaries were taught to thrust low(i.e. the belly) and TWIST before withdrawing the blade, both breaking vacuum AND widening the wound. Neither "lakonia"(Grecian) nor 'gladii"(Roman) swords were made with fullers
Throughout my career in the Marines, it has always been called a blood groove. Those who want to argue never help one in their hands.
Right on
And nobody killed anyone with it in 50 years
The way it was explained to me by a Vietnam marine was simple. The grove was a simple way to keep the knife silent in the sheath. I have not looked or done anything to verify this. I am simply taking him at his word. He said in the early part of Vietnam. The kabar was issued with its standard leather sheath. It did not take much time to figure out that dry leather rots in humid jungle conditions. So as a quick fix the marines issued a plastic sheath for the kabar. Effective yes, however the knife rattled in the plastic holster. Any person including myself will tell you a rattle or a squeak or any wired noise will make you dead fast in a combat environment. Especially at night. As a simple fix to this the marines made a synthetic rubber liner for the sheath with a slightly larger bump where the fuller is at. This reducing the amount of rattle the knife made and added a bit of blade retention to the sheath. This whole system was quickly replaced by the nylon sheath. Similar to the one being issued today. It made sense to me. He was also a Korean War vet. He told me that when he was trained on the use of the kabar. The blood grove was basically a confidence building tool. Simply put. They told the marines that it made the blade more deadly since the enemy would bleed out faster. So in his opinion. The “ blood grove.” Was just a psychological booster to the ground troop useing it. Makes sense. Because there are so many better blade designs for a fighting knife. The sikes/fairburn being the best in my book. I carried a Berber mark 2 every time I went into a hot zone. The spear point diamond shape double edge of the gerber just made sense to me. As far as to what he told me about the kabar. I was not there in his shoes. I don’t know if he was right or wrong. I never knew him to lie to me though. I have no reason to doubt his word.
I was taught years before I even bought my first knife, that it's called a "blood groove" but not just because it makes it easier to retrieve your weapon, but also because it was "more humane" than all of the previous designs of bladed weapons. For eons, men lay wounded on the battlefield with no apparent or visible wounds; meaning that they WERE in fact, bleeding to death internally because the entry wound was sealed up by the "vacuum" created by the human body. With the advent of the "blood groove" men were then more easily spotted for their wounds, as the blood was then allowed to flow out of the body and down the groove and able to be somewhat treated by the "medics/nurses" instead of being left there with their bodies bloating until explosion...
Crock a SH*T
It's an aesthetically pleasing blood groove, love my Ka-Bar!
Right on
It always amazes me at the large amount of people who will argue & ridicule others trying to prove how smart they are. I've always heard it referred to as a blood groove & that it reduced friction & allows bleed-out. I don't know the correct answer but I sure enjoyed Ur video.
Thanks
Wish you were my gun range/dealer.
No ego, humble, and always willing to better yourself as we do as well (hopefully)!
Agreed
Blood grooves/fullers have a very fascinating history going as far back as Ancient Rome. Spears and shields were one of the mainstays of that era and to help their legions to be unencumbered they made these fullers so that the spears would not only be lighter but in theory fly further when thrown. Just a small tidbit of history.
Grams make ounces and ounces make pounds any wait reduction helps
Right on
I hate waiting.
@@HeirofaNigerianPrince thank you lmao🤣😂😂👍👍👌🏻👌🏻🤣🤣🤣😎
I've also used it for an extra grip point since USMC fighting knives are used for everything.
It comes in handy when I use my Kabar to chop veggies.
Always; especially veggies with thick skin.@@michaellefort6128
I always called it the shoulder thing that goes up
Ha!
I know I am late to the game: I-beams are shaped the way they are is to increase the surface area, which will require a lot more force to bend vs a solid beam of the same diameter.
One of the big side effects is, as you mentioned, is less weight, but not the primary reason.
Same principle will apply to a knife/sword, in which the U-shape grove will increase the surface area, causing it to be slightly more rigid.
It's like scallops on kitchen knives. It frees the blade surface from the material you're cutting.
Right on
Good feedback
Ballistics gel is a poor conduit for testing blades. I've stuck knives in people before and I've gutted a lot of animals over the years. I'm here to tell you we're slimy inside, not sticky like ballistics gel. The only time you're going to worry about your knife getting stuck is when it has to deal with bones. In which case a fuller won't be helping you at all. A fuller does three things as mentioned it lightens the blade without giving up too much structural integrity, it doesn't make the blade stronger. The second thing is balance, this is more important in swords by removing weight from the blade you can shift balance towards the handle making something like a claymore less unwieldy. The third thing, it makes the blade pretty. Don't believe me? Go get a piece of pork loin, stick your knife in it pull it out again. It's a little tougher when they're alive but not so as you'd notice while stabbing. Fun fact, trying to slash at a living meat target can turn your blade. I had that happen once. The dense muscle fibers pushed the knife off to the side resulting in a less deep slash. Stabbing however, very little difference when it's alive as opposed to dead it's slippery. I always thought if you were going to use ballistics gel for blades you should probably coat the blade in oil or maybe some sort of silicone based lubricant to stop that adhesion from happening.
Thanks for the video. Too many people say too many things they do not know about.
It is a fuller, and it’s purpose is dependent on the maker’s intention. Sometimes it may be only intended to enhance aesthetics, but it’s primary purpose(s) are weight reduction and point of balance manipulation.
It will not make the blade stronger, it will not make the blade stiffer, and the majority of fullers are not deep enough to reduce friction, enhance bleeding, vent gas, or otherwise ease extraction. Depending on the fuller and flexibility of the flesh, it may actually increase friction due to having more surface area.
It will allow one to retain sufficient strength while reducing weight, and allow for drastic changes in how a sword or larger knife handles. The strength loss, if done properly, is minimal, especially in the way that blades are intended to be used, along the same plane. It is similar to heat treating a blade. After hardening, you temper the steel, which reduces hardness a bit, but drastically improves strength. Even with the slight loss of edge retention and abrasion resistance, because of the increased strength of the tempered blade, the end product is superior overall.
In our Blacksmith shop, we do destructive testing to determine best heat treat methods, as well as geometry. If your blade is decent steel with good heat treat and good geometry, it will be next to impossible for you to break it without tools, especially along the intended plane of use, and that is with or without a fuller.
This all being said, plenty of knives, such as your ka-bar, had a fuller added for aesthetics only.
Ask a good Blacksmith who does fullers, as it is an immense amount of work to forge it in cleanly and then make it perfect on the grinder. We would not do it if it did not enhance the function of the weapon.
All of this being said, I would still love to see some tests in gelatin or flesh.
Thank you for the feedback
I'm a amateur blacksmith and do forge knives in my spare time. And to answer the whole thing; Technically it's called a fuller, it's made with a fullering tool. Fullering a blade makes it stiffer when forging. But since most modern blades arent forged (Unless you buy custom made stuff), rather made from some sort of stock removal. Either cut out or ground out from stock, i don't really think it becomes stiffer. So it's mostly aesthetic, and lightening a blade slightly, perhaps altering the balance.
I cant remember ever forging a knife with a fuller myself, but that's mainly because i make very straight swedish/finnish knives. Those do very seldom have a fuller (Unless it's an old Isakki Järvenpää knife).
Good feedback
The most decisive test would be to stab it into a pre-butchered hog heated to 98.6F, and the other stab would be maybe 2" away from the first stab in similar density tissue. As you may or may not know, hogs are VERY close to the size and muscle density of humans, and have been used throughout history (unrefrigerated, mind you) to test blade effectiveness. Old-school ballistics jelly, if you will.
Similarly, testing on a freshly killed deer or elk would be an acceptable test. Just make sure the blade is wiped clean and VERY lightly oiled before each test to simulate a freshly drawn, well maintained blade.
Ballistics gel is good for reliably testing force, but it does NOT simulate human or animal body tissue, as any bow hunter can verify. Arrows suck at gel, getting stuck very early, but the same high draw weight bow and arrow will often get total pass-through on animals despite poor gel performance.
The fuller is indeed primarily used to shed and/or manage blade weight/balance while retaining the desired reach of the blade without much loss of durability. It can also play into aiding blade flex, which is actually desired in swords. You mentioned why not add a saw back or just make the sword shorter? For one, a saw back, be it saw, rib cracker, or barbed wire defeater, reduces stabbing effectiveness as do blade serrations. All serrations serve to do in stabbing is to get caught in clothing, armor, and items in pockets. This is why true daggers are very slim (to reliably fit between ribs), double edged, long (to puncture more internal organs, especially the heart), and without serrations.
Personally, I would never want a bayonet with "saw back," as you called them, barbed wire defeaters. They will just make stabbing more difficult, and if I need to break barbed wire, I'll just carry a wire cutter. As for the fuller, they are great for swords because swords excel at reach, and contrary to Hollywood, nearly all damage inflicted when properly fighting with a sword is at the tip of the blade. Many long swords are actually supposed to be somewhat dull in the middle so as to be able to grip the blade with your hand ungloved during certain fighting techniques. It is also VERY detrimental to blade integrity to chop at the middle of the blade anyway, as the tip wants to keep moving, placing lots of stress on the spine. Putting a fuller in effectively lets you have a sword with more reach for the same weight as a shorter sword. Even a couple inches more reach than the other guy can lead to a decisive strike while being outside of his striking range. As for defeating plate armor, that's what maces, flails, war hammers, and halberds were for. A claymore would be far better utilized to win the reach fight against other sword users. Going up against a knight using your claymore is a great way to get skewered by his lance, and no, you won't roll out of the way at the last second and cut his horse's legs while striking an anime-like kneeling pose. You will be knight-ke-bob.
Now, in the case of the katana I had custom made for me, I requested no bohi (fuller) to be put into the blade, as I wanted my blade to not "whoosh" when swung, for the purpose of if I ever had to use it (though unlikely) for stealth, an audible "whoosh" could be heard by my intended target causing a startle reflex, be it sudden movement to the side, a scream, whatever... that, and I like the feel of a heavy blade. My katana is 27.5" (blade, overall is 40.6") and weighs about a whopping 3 lbs. No, really, that's heavy for most swords.
I will say, it's easier to pull a blade with a fuller out of a stabbed Pelican hard case than it is with a blade with no fuller.
Course, if you keep your blade well oiled, as you should with carbon steel blades, stabbing stuff repeatedly and quickly is VERY easy. Surface area really only has grip issues when not oiled before a stab. If you use a leather sheath that's properly saturated in oil, every time you pull your knife out, it gets a coat of oil applied. Kinda why I prefer leather sheathes to Kydex/polymer or nylon/cloth sheathes.
Good comment thank you for taking the time to leave it
To experiment with knife design do some duct work and riveting and make armor for your hog.
Modern knives are designed for puncturing Kevlar clothing leather and flesh, but the designs of combat knifes and swords come from the days of armored soldiers.
Even if you aren't fighting people with mail, heavy leather and metal and copper, the designs they came up with were superior.
Making tools for butchering people on the battlefield was an art.
Agree with everything you say except the whoosh comment. I can make my fellow instructors unfullered blade whoosh as easily as I can my fullered one. It’s down to the speed and technique of the cut.
Dullness of a blade is not for half swording. You don't grip the edges of a blade when half swording, you grip the flats. To do it any other way is just dumb.
The groove/fuller changes the properties of the blade. It incresses the threshold at which the blade breaks/bends under any kind of stress. Most swords prior to the fuller being forged down the center during combat would break or bend fairly easily. Some of the most flexible swords throughout history came after the fuller. Before they had to make swords thicker to compensate breaking but they usualy had no flexibility and were typicaly very mass heavy which made them slower to swing carybect. Some of the earliest weapons to have a fuller during their time were usualy supeior quality swords because it would reduce the amount of material while increasing the "flexibility". Like the Japanese katana and the Viking Ulfbert swords. While it doesent change the material the swords are made of or reinforce the blade it changes the shape and properties of the blade. In knives id belive it to be the same but idk the praticality of it. Truth be told if it does help with weapon retrieval thats a plus but there are documenterys about combat and weapons throughout history most of them end up explaining some of the circumstances that lead to the fuller being a "critical" structural design.
Runic, that was a hell of a good explanation .
I think the K bar was designed for the military so the aesthetic reason for having the blood groove kind of goes out the window. I don’t think the military was worried about how cool it looks
The knife with the fuller is meant for close quarters combat (cqc). The knife without the fuller is meant for cutting through armor and, as noted by the ovaloid hole through the blade, cutting wire steel, like a chain link fence or concertina wire. Depending on how the fuller was made, if done with a hammer and a fullering spring stage, DOES make the blade slightly stronger because the metal is compressed in on itself. If, however, the fuller was made by removing material from the blade, slightly weaker but lighter and more balanced.
Thank you for the feedback
Truth is Truth even if no one believes it. A Lie is a Lie even if everyone believes it!
It’s A Damn Blood Groove!! PERIOD!
This is another epic video from this channel thank you!
True that boss. 🖒🖒🖒🖒
Thanks
Team Blood Groove 💪😎
@Vincent Bate very true Brits are ignorant
@Zenmasterme Please don't end a statement about a blood groove with the word "PERIOD!" (which is the original blood groove by the way) 😉
They're called "blood groves". It's there to reduce pull the blade from the body. The way I figure if anyone has otherwise to say... Ask the Marine Corps what it's called. In knife fights you're taught to slash, stab, and twist. A Ka-Bar has had no issues with any of these task after decades of combat use. I have NEVER seen one break... Just saying.
Right on
@@CRSFirearms IF I EVER HEAR YOU CALL IT ANYTHING BUT A BLOOD GROOVE YOUNG MAN I"LL UNSUB!!! So it is written... So let it be done... LMBO!!! All jokes aside good stuff brother.
+devildog - if you can’t break a k-bar, are you truly a marine? I thot y’all broke everthang ya got yer hands on, innit?
You would need a huge sheet of metal and a giant person for the suction and drag to be hard to pull out of the target.
@@devildog3246 fact Fuller is the stamp that makes the stamp on casting blood Groove is nothing but what has been called in knife fighting Truth is more important to slice through an artery stabbing into target only makes you less effective due to greater chance you will hit bone or sinew stabbing only works in the movies
In a Knife fight you can safeguard your eyes and at the same time take a peek at your opponent.
So many misconceptions about the mysterious grooves in a knives & swords.
A fuller is a rounded or beveled groove or slot in the flat side of a blade (e.g. a sword, knife, or bayonet) that are made using a blacksmithing tool of the same name (fuller). These grooves are often called “blood grooves” or “blood gutters” as well as fullers, although their purpose has nothing to do with blood.
A fuller is often used to lighten the blade, much the way that the shape of an I-beam allows a given amount of strength to be achieved with less material.
When combined with proper distal tapers, heat treatment and blade tempering, a fullered blade can be 20% to 35% lighter than a non-fullered blade without any sacrifice of strength or blade integrity.
This effect lessens as the blade is reduced in length. A blade is said to be “fullered” after introduction of the groove.
The term “fuller” is from the Old English fuliere, meaning “one who fulls (pleats) cloth.” It is derived from the Latin word fullo. The first recorded use of the term as a blacksmithing tool is from 1864, according to Webster’s Dictionary.
The term used in historical Europe is largely unknown, and due to the constantly changing nature of language, the popular term also may have varied from generation to generation.
King Thrasamund of the Vandals was recorded in a letter to King Theodoric the Ostrogoth, giving thanks for a gift of swords, and refers to the fullers in the blades as simply grooves: “…their centers, hollowed out with beautiful grooves, seem to undulate with worm-like markings; for shadows of such variety you would think the metal was interwoven rather than shining with different colors.”
The addition of “blood” to these words (i.e.: “blood channel,” “blood gutter,” “blood groove”) was most likely a modern colloquialism, but gives the connotation of an unintended and undesirable purpose; that of directing blood toward the hands rather than lessening the weight of the blade. Therefore, in modern descriptions, fuller is often the preferred choice.
Working iron into steel of varying strengths, flexibility, hardness and holding an edge is the field of metallurgy. A Japanese Samurai Sword starts with a block of molten iron and is hammered & folded like cloth 100’s of times while applying carbon and cooling. Each fold increases strength and flexibility. It is truly the poetry of the riddle of steel. “That which does not kill me, makes me stronger.” Friedrich Nietzsche
“The Riddle of Steel” and “Sword Making” & “War Making” Was the Beginning of Modern technology. War had always advanced technology and science. WW 2 A-Bombs, Aircraft,”. Tanks Ect. All thanks to Aries-Mars the gods of war. NASA Space program to moon was bs. Nuclear Missiles, ICBM’s, guidance systems is why we got to the moon not the other way around. Read “Guns, Germs and Steel!”-Jamie Diamond
I don't care what you call it. Call it whatever you like. Make stuff up if you want to. I really only know one thing about my knives... you can't have them!
Right on
It's a grove that gets more fuller with blood.
Matt (Schola Gladiatora) can be a bit condescending, but he knows his stuff on swords. I've been a long time viewer of his. The fuller is forged into the blade, they dont remove the material, just hammer it to a different area, giving the blade more rigidity. Also by adding groove, it actually increases the surface area of the sword, like the letter u, the whole shape is much longer than just measuring across the top of it
fuller in swords makes them bendy so they dont snap. claymore is for taking out horses not destroying armor. fuller in those crappy rambo knives doesn make a difference because its not long enough. and its not hitting weapon like a sword. fuller can take whole lot of weight out of long sword and the have counter weight making them easier to swing.
I agree that on smaller knives , these blood-grooves are more for aesthetics.
But on larger blades such as sword -if done right - could add lateral geometric strength and subtract some weight. The way it was described to me was that stress/breaking forces travel across surfaces more efficiently than through an objects most solid part. And if you increase the amount if surface area you disperse those forces over a greater area vs just across a normal flat side.
Thank you for the feedback
@@CRSFirearms This is correct.
It does make the blade stiffer, not stronger, but stiffer. That was the reason why the groove was added to early Bowie knives since metal sometimes varied greatly from knife to knife. The reason it is called a blood grove goes back to WW1 trench warfare when bayonets were undergoing changes with the realization the days of running at each other on broad open fields was over. Round , long stabbing spears were being replaced with more knife like slashing implements that were removable for close quarters work. Soldiers were given the explanation the groove was to allow the user, ( who was more likely illiterate than to have any medical knowledge), to see if he had made a good hit as it allowed recipient to begin bleeding visibly in the area of the groove even before the weapon was removed. More here on these 2 linked crossover collaboration videos
th-cam.com/video/EIGIBJeRfnQ/w-d-xo.html
That is a really excellent link thank you for sharing it
@Jon Bradfield no it's only purpose is to lessen the vacuum when withdrawing from wound making it faster to get back in the fight the blood Groove dates back to the Greeks Fuller is the p-c name
@Jon Bradfield wrong only purpose is to lessen the vacuum when withdrawing from wound not about making stronger or anything else. Simply makes it easier to get back in the fight
@@algilder2647 lol agreed. I had a marine tell me damn near 10 years ago now about blood grooves being for that specific purpose. Guess they've been teaching them disinfo in the service for years now, like you couldn't tell when you drove a 6 or 7" knife in an enemy if you picked a good spot lol. If you couldn't, you're certainly not going to take the time to stand there and examine the knife before you pull it out LMFAO
David Myrick
The stiffer the blade is, the easier it will break 😳
I think you are spot on...aesthetics, weight/balance tweaking, and/or maybe anti-stabby-stuck-thing. As for fullers adding strength....that is probably wrong. I think people misunderstand the I-beam design. A knife without a fuller will be stronger than the same knife with a fuller....but the one with a fuller won't take that much of a hit in strength for the weight/balance adjustment.
When I was in the Marine Corps they went over this and called it a blood groove - We were told it does help in extracting the blade from the body - We were trained to be professional killers so I think we know what we're talking about
"my spidey sense was tingling" lol.. Same here.. Good channel
Thanks
It doesn't matter call it whatever you want
Right on
Never heard about the "blood groove" but had heard that it was to release the pressure and make it easier to slide the knife/blade out, My Granda told me that and he fought in ww2 and actually used his bayonet on a German and was told that's what the "groove" was designed to do.
An old ww1 veteran showed me a bayonet he had modified with a bigger blood groove. He said they did it to make the blade easier to remove. Someone that fought in the trenches should know more than the average mug.
Agreed
My oldest brother served in Vietnam 68-69 USMC and when he came home from bootcamp just before shipping out, I remember VIVIDLY him telling me that groove on a bayonet was a blood groove to aid in pulling it back out easier and faster. 🤷♂️
Steve Adams Yes but its also called a Fuller groove and somehow I think the blade designers purpose was as a relief cut to make the blade lighter while still being strong. Not sold on it being more effective in withdrawing the blade from a body.
I’m not sure either I can’t wait to see you further testing
@@CRSFirearms I have no plans to test it. I don't have a knife or bayonet with Fuller grooves. My M7 bayonets don't have Fuller grooves either. If I had one or could get one I might test it. The M9 bayonet does not have Fuller grooves either. That USMC fight knife has them. You should run a test with it since you have one. Get a pork ham or pork roast and test it against a knife that doesn't have them. I had an old rusted M1 rifle bayonet without grips that had Fuller grooves though at one time. I don't have that bayonet anymore as far as I know.
There is a guy It’s going to be doing extensive testing
Damn man I've called it blood groove since the Marine Corps... now I know
Right on
Lol i have one question. How many times have you actually referred to that part of the knife
In kitchen knife design, a concave edge helps separate what your slicing from the blade so it falls off rather than sticking to the knife, the fuller might act the same to help pull whatever you're slicing through away from the blade.
Right on
I am a custom knife maker as my job. It is called a fuller, but you can also say blood groove. Don’t let people bs you with semantics. They just want to look smarter brother.
The fuller is there to lighten, and to balance the blade without sacrificing strength. Without the groove in order to balance the knife you would have to add weight to the hilt. With the fuller the blade portion is lighter, which means that even if you still need to add weight to the hilt it requires less added weight - meaning that the over all knife is lighter. Another trick is to have the blade get thinner going toward the tip. Using both techniques you can actually remove quite a bit of blade weight, while moving the balance point back toward the hilt.
Now let me point out some fallacies to your logic:
1) The fuller actually creates more surface area not less. This is the reason that the brain has folds - to increase surface area for the same size organ. Another way to put it is to use an exaggerated example: If you use a measuring wheel and you roll it first on the inside of a pot from rim to rim, and then you roll it across the lid... they are both the same distance across the top of the pot - which one has more surface area?
2) Human flesh, as an example, will conform to any reasonable indentation in a blade. There is no air space between the bottom of the fuller and the flesh... so, it's not there primarily to let air in and to release the vacuum. Potentially, the fit of the flesh would be a bit less snug in the fuller, so if you hit an artery (blood under pressure) it could potentially bleed out a bit more there, and again "potentially" air could be sucked in easier at the fuller for the same reason. That is a lot of "potentially" "maybe" this and that. lol
Finally, I will close with a question: Why are you trying to get someone else to perform a simple experiment that you can do yourself? The medium does not have to be a perfect representation of meat as long as it is close, and you use the same medium for both knives. If you don't have a scale, then you could use a balance beam and slowly add water to a bucket type device at the weighted end. Run the experiment several times, and then weight the water difference between the two and divide by the number of times that you ran the experiment. It's not perfect, but it would likely answer the original question and give an estimate of the difference between the blade designs.
This is the first of your videos that I have seen, so I am not trying to just hammer you - I'm just offering some opinions and suggestions.
I have questions. Why is it that a knife not designed for throwing needs to be balanced to the hilt? Why would a hand to hand combat knife need a lighter blade, or a blade balanced towards the handle instead of the tip? I'm going to qualify this second question with an opinion: removing weight from the blade of a hand to hand knife and or balancing the weight towards the handle doesn't improve the handling characteristics of the blade. It's total weight is the big factor in things like recovery speed and slashing speed. Making a knife handle heavy can take away some power in chopping motions, but again, the total weight is the predominant factor. And finally, if fullers are often used to balance blades...why are they rarely employed in throwing knives?
@@johnathansmith9750 OK, good questions.
Hand to hand combat is usually done using a cutting or stabbing motion, and for this a more balanced blade is quicker and easier to handle. The balance point does not have to be exactly at the hand guard, but you want for it too be as close as possible within reason for the design of the blade.
For a fighting knife there is a bigger leeway depending on fighting style, and because the balance point is an individual preference - just as one pistol may feel better to an individual, and allow them to shoot better. I personally prefer the balance to be further back in the handle. I also don't like plastic guns because all of the weight is on top.
Any blade that is utilized in a chopping motion, even a camp knife, benefits from having the weight forward.
Dedicated throwing knives are usually slightly forward at roughly the middle of the entire knife because the balance point is what the knife will rotate around when thrown. They need to be as strong as possible, so rather than use a fuller they are designed to balance without one. They are also tempered much softer than a regular knife so that they tend to bend rather than to break, or better yet, to be very "springy."
Some people might think to put the weight forward on a throwing knife so that it is more likely to land point forward, but this is not how it works. The knife will spin at the balance point which means that the handle end will be a long lever that will want to keep spinning after it hits the target. A balanced knife also makes the spin more predictable - this is important because you adjust the amount/speed of spin depending on the distance.
These are all just generalities, and personal preference always is the first consideration when choosing any knife.
@@barking.dog.productions1777
Well stated. I happen to know the purpose of a fuller isn't to deal with the stiffness of a blade, but rather is a way to manage the hardness of the temper in a blade. A blade that is tempered with a hardness to resist bending is prone to breakage, and breakage from impact is the primary concern when adding a fuller, whether the smith that's doing the pounding knows it or not. The area of the blade that is fullered is thinner than the surrounding material, obviously, and that allows it to be deformed easily in comparison to the surrounding material. It works as a dampener to soften the pressure wave that travels through the steel as a result of sharp impacts, such as striking another piece of steel or bone or wood, etc...The idea of a fuller adding stiffness to a blade is one born of people attributing results to a means instead of means to a result. If you cold roll a bead into sheet metal, you strengthen the metal against bending across that bead, but that is due to the change in grain direction of the metal during the rolling process, which changes the shear line. Intuitively, one would think the same is true for a fuller in a blade, however the fullers job isn't to strengthen the blade by changing the grain of the steel, and even if it were the process would need to be done as a cold forging. This is why fullers ground into a blade work just as well and often better than those that are hot forged. It's also aesthetically pleasing in many instances. Many smiths aren't really metallurgists and few metallurgists are working smiths: when you get a knifemaker who is both a working smith and has a deeper knowledge of metallurgy than the average farrier, truly wonderful blades are often the result.
I happen to agree with you in terms of where I prefer the heaviest mass located in a blade, which is a matter of personal preference.
@@johnathansmith9750 That is absolutely fascinating - thank you for sharing that.
I consider myself a novice or hobby bladesmith, not for lack of interest but rather a lack of good tools, a place for a decent forge, proximity of neighbors, etc.
All of the blades that I have made have been stock removal process, with tempering done with a propane torch. I hadn't even been thinking along the lines of a forged blade. I have done some minor straightening, bending, and work hardening using a piece of RR track, but the major work is straight stock removal.
Interesting to think of the fuller being a strengthening feature due to work hardening... you have certainly given me a lot of new information to consider. :)
@@barking.dog.productions1777
If it's something that you're interested in, I have experimented with an induction tempering process that radically alters the grain of carbon steel. It's not a particularly difficult process, or expensive to set up, and the results I've observed have been very promising, especially when using W² tool steel. A cross section under a microscope showed crystalline bonds very similar to high-speed steel, but showed no large carbide regions or any pearlite. It's not a new process, at all, but I think the expense involved previously has made it rather overlooked in the knife making industry, due to the limited available technology a hundred years ago when the process was first described.
Okay so you make a lot of good points, but the medieval period stuff is kinda off. The creation of advanced armors indeed caused the creation of narrower, longer swords, but the use was to thrust into gaps between plates. The groin, the armpit, and the visor on certain two piece helmets like the sallet and bevor. No sword that can be effectively wielded is heavy enough to significantly harm an individual in full plate. Full plate is worn over:
>clothing
>A thicc jacket called a gambeson or arming jacket
>maille on certain plate styles like the Italian stuff
If this was the case, HEMA and reenactors would not be able to take full force swings with these swords, even though they are blunt. The fuller is used to decrease weight for maneuverability, which leads to accuracy in thrusting against exposed areas. The length is important because it gives you the reach to evade the knight you are trying to stab to death. So you wanted length, a narrow blade AND low weight. A sword should be balanced towards the guard, usually a few inches up. This makes it significantly easier to redirect strikes on a moving target.
Otherwise, you made a lot of good points. If anything it's a dual functionality. Just because something does one thing, doesn't mean it can't do something else.
That's a tactical air flow groove so your blade stab faster and stays steady while fighting dragons while riding your unicorn
Lol
@@CRSFirearms the unicorn ranch in Nevada has the highest flying and best trained unicorns, just keep them away from the dragons.
It's not for looks, it is pressed in, this compresses the metal grain structure and condenses it, much like being hammer forged, this makes the cross section stronger and more durable to tortional forces.
Amazing. This form of blade construction has been around for 150 years and we don't know the effect on strength and/or hydraulic effect? TH-cam (& the internet) should be ashamed.
Right
🇺🇸🇲🇽 Dont worry we all have days that we cant talk.But you made me laugh🤠
Man was I having problems
I have an 8 inch German dagger that may have been from a WWII German officer. It has a makers mark with a large 'H' a small 'H' in the top of the large H and a small S in the bottom of the large H and a dagger down through the center of all the letters. The top half of the blade is 3/16th of a inch that goes 6 inches down the blade and has a groove on both sides. The last two inches is a sharp knife edge, and the bottom edge is 7 inch of very sharp knife edge. I can see how that would make pulling the dagger out easier from whatever it was stuck into.
To the first vid of that guy: "Only kids or idiots would call it a blood groove" What? So being ignorant about something that is honestly esoteric and not well known makes you an idiot or a child? That guy and people like him are honestly so up their own ass, they think they are better than people.
Much respect to you, CRS. I appreciate how kind, and understanding, non judgemental you are. You remind me of myself. Peace, brother. Keep doing what you do.
0:55 I assume you mean first time you got lucky with a girl, kinda sounded like first time you stabbed someone, lmao!
Lol
Great,....Thanks! I just went from "Kool Knives!" to "Horny" in the blink of an eye! (Thanks,...lol!)
Hahahaha
@knine1833 I guess either way, it was a stabbing.
Lol
Its called a fuller. Its a blacksmithing term.
Also.... to confuse matters, spears and sword, {ect ect} do get vacuum-locked in body's, its a real thing.
No they don't there's no such thing as vacuum locking. The only time weapons get stuck in a body is when they are snagged on bones. Ribcage especially can trap a blade.
Claymores, zweihanders, and kriegsmessers were not for smashing armor they were for killing cavalry and the fuller was used as weight reduction. Fullers on knives were meant to look nicer; it has no intended purpose other than asthetics, does it help the blade strength: maybe minimally, does it help pull the knife out: again maybe minimally. It doesn't matter what it does it matters what it's intended to do, and on knives it's nothing.
An I-beam is used for building for several reasons: yes, because it is lighter, but it is capable of bending, twisting and transferring stress while returning to shape (you wouldn't believe how much tall buildings "move"). It was also, up until now, easier to detect defects in the material and to "extrude" than solid steel. As to "blood grooves" in knives I wouldn't know about strength, a crowbar is usually a much better "prying" tool than any knife (or especially sword). One of the big difficulties in extruding knives from a thrusting movement into a human body (especially bayonets) is that if you hit a bone (especially a rib), you've got a problem. Human tissue is made up of many layers and materials, so it really doesn't resist that much (except for a process called "envelopment"). As for bleeding, you can get that from a paper cut.
Stiffer, stronger, more thrusty. Harder when jammed in, easier to pull out. Hmmm.
That's what she said?
The Swedish name for that is blodfåra (blood grove). I have always called it that because it makes no sense for me as a swede to use the name fuller because we dont have a swedish word for that and it would only sounde weird if i mixed in a english word when speaking swedish. I havent reserched into the topic but it seems to me that its mostly tradition and looks that is the reason for a blood grove on a knife. I think on a sword it would make sense to have one mostly because you could reduce weight without compromising the structure of the blade also it might relive some vacuum making it a bit easier to pull out.. Im thinking in the times wthey used swords weight reduction with the added bonus of a slight improvement pulling it out would make alot of sense.. Also the estetic is also a factor, it looks cool. So when making a knife you use the same estetics as making the sword even if its not really necesary, and the name blood grove sounds cool in most languages so it makes sense that ppl calling it that... Ofcourse ppl on the internet get upset over the smallest things, but it wouldnt really be the internet without the keyboard warriors.. Sorry for my bad english.
A fuller is often used to lighten the blade. ... This effect lessens as the blade is reduced in length. A blade is said to be "fullered" after introduction of thegroove. Fullers used to be called "blood grooves" or "blood gutters" by some antiquarians, although their purpose has nothing to do with blood.
If you’ve ever cut potatoes and had them stick to the blade and find it annoying buy a blade with groves in it running from the sharp end to the backside. Potatoes don’t stick as much. So it makes sense to me that the blade would be easier to push in or pull out of ballistic gel ( or a human ) with the groove running from point to hilt. The simplest explanation is usually the correct one so... blood groove
Agreed and I believe you hit the nail on the head the simplest explanation usually is the correct one
Ever since I was a little whipper-snapper i always heard it called a blood grove. My father was in WW2 & Korea but I've heard people that were in other wars call it a blood grove and a few people that were not in any military or war call it a blood grove . i don't know if any of them made thier own knifes or in knife making that ridge is called somthing else or do I care what its called and if someone calls it by a different name . i don't care people have different names for everything . Just look at the name vagina how many names have you heard it called
That’s a very excellent point
Cum dumpster Love hole etc. etc.
Who loves full tang knifes
I love tang
Full-tang, baby. Gotta be sturdy to go deep and come back
Used these in Viet Nam and in a human body it makes a significant difference in removal of the weapon if you twist it. The fuller does not have to go the full length, it only has to break the initial vacuum.