Some things I learned were toxic in a relationship with a family member: * You always end up doing what they want * You feel misunderstood and put down, but not sure why * You feel anxious about expressing any need, opinion or idea * You feel never good enough * You find yourself humiliated in company and they say nothing (actually, they set the whole thing up) * They rewrite history to their advantage and tell you you remember wrong or didn't know * They stonewall you, sometimes for a long time * You are treated contemptuously , rejected or accused strangely by people you both know, and you have no idea why. * You are always the one to apologise * You always do any menial task that needs doing * They play favourites and blame their least favourite for anything that goes wrong * You spend a lot of time thinking about how to avoid an upset with them or trying to work out what's wrong
Hey, I like this TH-cam channel too along with Societal Narcissism. They're right that self care is a right, not a luxury. The narcs want us to thinking having a self care routine is a crime. I like how she said "boring" is a win.
Right. As if there's an annual Narc convention in Vegas w/keynote narc speakers. All attendees are equipped w/a playbook consisting of age old & new tactics during the breakout & roleplay sessions.
The DSM lists nine distinct characteristics for narcissism, and I think a person must have at least five at all times in order to get a diagnosis. The truth is, narcissism is not very sophisticated like healthy behaviors are. Narcissism is something you can pick up on the patterns with some practice. The details may be expressed differently from one narcissist to the next, but the overall "types" of behaviors always follow the same set of patterns.
I am 11 months away from this person I had no idea how mentally drained I was until I was away from him. One thing I did realize always was that when he wasn’t home I had moments of peace. Now I am realizing potential everyday while I heal. 1-1-23 was my new life. Ongoing work but worth everyday. TY for this info 👍🏻💪🏻
I hear you…feel the same way about the person I am in the process of leaving…utter peace when he is away. I used to miss him a little and then it gradually became changed into realising how chaotic everything was when he was around and how I never really felt happy or content, just hooked on hoping things would improve
@@melisherwood5300 I have realized,now, the chaos was also a way of deflecting what my ex was up to. Until one is really away the windows of reflection don’t open up. I discarded him, he did not see it coming. I have 24 yrs . I’m 72 yrs young and in my third act,making everyday count & taking as much time as I need to heal. Was the best move I could have made. No fear,fearless. This community helps,we are not alone.
@@melisherwood5300 I am 13 months away, divorce signed. I cannot impress upon you how life becomes so much better. Internal work & realizing the manipulation has been rewarding for me. I wish you the best & realizing that they do not change is half the battle. We are deserving of more than the breadcrumbs we were thrown, you tube: Sam Vaknin has opened my eyes. My therapist recommendation. All the therapy we had as a couple,#1 put the focus on him ( he loved that), #2 taught him new forms of manipulation. Stay strong it gets better.
I'm certain it will be the only worthwhile discussion I'll have today as well because my narcissistic wife doesn't want worthwhile conversations anymore. That stopped years ago after she realized I wont' tolerate her manipulation anymore. She's since manipulated our daughter to basically hate me. She no longer speaks to me and when I try to engage with her it usually goes nowhere. At work, most of my coworkers are much younger than me and conversations are usually brief and/or trivial so any conversation this meaningful is highly desirable.
That why I thought he had 2 different personalities, cognitive dissonance. He was really nice one day and then horrible monster six months after that the cruelest most horrible things to you never apologize. Oh wait, he would apologize when I was younger because he wanted sex.
"Whittle away, whittle away, whittle away." Dr. C nails it. And Dr. Carlos nails it with "becoming a shell of a person." Awesome interview! Jam packed with insight and information .
@@SaddleRockManitou me too!! I forgot to mention the narcissist also thrives on control! If they can’t have it or if they can’t have you it throws their world upside down. Narcissists are incredibly interesting Individuals. I also feel like there’s a strong correlation between narcissism and substance abuse. The narcissists I can think of individually abuse alcohol, Vicodin, and Meth.
Sleep deprivation purposely instigated by my ex made me fear I would lose my job.. truly evil. Thank you for bringing up. They want to keep you off balance and too energetically depleted to leave, but the day I decided to leave was the first night I had slept in months. Life is SO good now in respectful relationships ❤
She is describing my parents exactly 💯! It is crazy how exact her details are. I went “no contact” w both my parents in 2010 early 2011 and it was amazing how normal and nice life became once they were gone. The only problem is that they turned my son against me. They told him I’m crazy etc. Also they made sure his narcissistic abusive father got full custody. Birds of a feather flock together in this case anyway. I only wish I had gone no contact before I had children. My son was my life. I did everything for him. I loved him more than anything in the world and still do but I may never see him again. Its been 13 years since I’ve seen him. I’ve been through hell. Narcissists can be very dangerous. It’s nothing to take lightly. Please get out if you can.
Much of this describes my former experience of decades. I'd say to myself, "Never smile at a crocodile 'cause you can't get friendly with a crocodile." That often helped to regulate my trauma bond. Finally after years of things going awry, I realized I had to leave. There were no guidelines like we have with this video.
Everything in this video rings true! I've worked with a toxic family member for 28 years and it has taken a heavy toll on me. It feels like being a rat on a wheel dealing with people like this. I'm left feeling confused and angry after being around this person. It's so hard to deal with.
Last partner acted like a victim, 'poor me! no one likes me and everyone says I am such a bad and angry person!' And yet, they WERE an angry and bad person, and didn't seem to think that any of this feedback was worth taking to heart. Just acted like he was a victim and people were being mean to him. And yet, he would talk me down to others behind my back, and acted like 'she is so unstable and fickle with me.' Sheesh !! This conversation is so helpful, and the lists of characteristics is great. He keeps coming back as well, and yet now I am very detached and honest and he doesn't like that. I keep asking him, 'what are you going to do about that?' 'Do you agree with the feedback? you could work on yourself if you think it would make things better for you.' He hates that, and yet - that is all he gets from me now. "I hope that you heal your childhood pain so that you can have a happier life.'
This was excellent! I love the examples of Hoovering. Yesterday, 6 months after I moved out (after 42.5 years married) my husband asked “what can I do?” 😂When I said “nothing” he said “maybe I should just end it all now”, meaning, I guess, his life. I learned from this channel that this is the ultimate control ploy, so I was prepared. Thank you!
This is particularly problematic if it is an “extended family/in town” relationship, where you are effectively trapped and subjected to this person’s relational abuse. My advice: Move to a town several hours drive away, because the situation will never improve; you will always be seen as a rival to this very insecure person.
Deep down they think they aren't good enough and they want company in that space so they don' t feel alone. That's one reason why they demean other people.
@@maidmarion2976I really believe that it’s generational especially if that parent has clan of narcs like my husband .. it feels like a cult all of his brothers are narcs and my mother in law was queen bee narc . They refused to see are first born bc I’m not from their country .. they hate Americans but love the Dollar . 😵💫
“These (toxic) people are energy vampires.”-Dr. Sarkis, you nailed it! And both Dr. C and Dr. Sarkis, thank you for emphasizing the need for self-care toward the end of this dialogue! Seek out true friends who can be a support system and also professional counseling, when needed. “Go back to your definition of you…”(those 20 plus character traits Dr. C challenges us to create) and be true to who you are. -Dr. C God bless you both for the work you do and for sharing how people can heal. ❤🙏🏻
Dr. C's channel is one of my favorite, and Stephanie's book, Gaslighting, is one that I have read at least 7 times. It's phenomenal. Excellent conversation today!
50 years never apologized .recently after a escalated convo when he said nastily "You don't get along with anyone Debra" I asked him to apologize...he finally said. "Tell me what I should say to apologize"
Yes, it's like talking with 2 seperate people. I wish I could share all my texts from this person. The playbook you talk about is real. I'm so heartbroken. They destroy your life and hurt themselves also in process. There need to be laws made specifically for narcissistic abuse. They hurt so many people with their games. I appreciate all the information.. both of you Doctors are correct about everything said in video. Thank you so much. 🙏
My ex apologized a lot. He would even change his behavior. He just kept upping his covert game though. This really caused a lot of confusion. The worst part is he would complain and tell me that he always apologized and that I almost never did. He was right. I'd tell him that when I was in the wrong I would apologize, but that I wasn't sorry for not bowing to him or for not taking his crap. He would say I'm sorry and stop doing the covert abuse thing, but would always find a new way to physically abuse me all in the name of fun. Plus he was living a double life almost our entire marriage. I had been in two relationships before him so I had learned the basics of their tactics. Me having better boundaries and holding him accountable only increased a change of covert tactics. I was always 10 steps behind in fighting through my confused state of mind. I didn't realize until several years after my divorce that he was a narcissist. Fifteen years free of him and I'm still thrilled to be free. Yes, it was that bad.
Bless you and thank you both. This is the first time I have heard anyone highlight the sleep deprivation. "Who does that?" Exactly, Dr C. Not being able to wrap my head around it kept me in it for years. I just couldn't believe it. The divorce hearing is tomorrow.
I can't beleive she just explained his behavior perfectly, when I started listening to Dr C, I started to tell myself you're smart,you're beautiful, you're kind, thoughtful, love people you have empathy, and I never deviate from that, because he never let up, My sister recently received health diagnoses and she is going to need myself and other siblings for support when he realized this he has spent the last week, Gaslighting, name calling, it is so sad. His favorite word is let God take care of it.
As long as the person who should keep you protected supplies the toxic culprit and seems to be working against your wellbeing you have no recourse. I can't believe what I am hearing, seeing, experiencing. I am waiting for a call from hospice to explain my situation better. I need answers and I can't be the answer. I need to extract myself from the harm.
I, personally had no support system and I learned that he had the power of persuasion over those in the legal field and in the police force as well as those outside the family. He took pride in himself in the ability to manipulate others with his body language, facial expressions and tears and I witnessed this as one of his form of weapons against anyone he wanted to hurt or bring down. He hurt a lot of people behind their back, yet pretended to be their confidante or friend to their face. He was evil yet most everyone saw him as the nicest guy.
Yes, this is so confusing when people behave like they are caring and loving, but at the same time they can lash out on you, place you much lower than their momentary interests (like a tv show or smthng), and are easily irritated / agitated. But irregularities in people just put me off now, my trust is broken
Hello Drs. Carter, Sarkis, Gus and the Team healthy Community from California. I had a productive happy life before I got into this nightmare. Lost job but Thank God I got a better one so I have been able to be independent which I always was. I learned never to ask for anything as a child in a narcissistic family. Thank you so much for a great guest and video that is very informative and educational Dr. Carter and Dr. Sarkis. May you both be blessed.
Thank you for sharing these discussions. I'm glad to see you're willing to acknowledge the developmental traumas that cause these personality styles. When we are traumatised as kids, a part of us gets emotionally stuck at that age. So it's clear that a person who was traumatised their entire childhood (always neglected, exploited, attacked and never given the space to grow and have safety and a self) would have endless anger, triggers everywhere. People develop habits / addictions to the delusional pleasures of compensation mechanisms, such as the need to control others or reenact more cruel things that had been done to them. People survive childhoods where they are persistently made to feel worthless by disconnecting from empathy, since that is a liability in such environments. There aren't systems to uphold children's rights, because what systems society has are corrupted by perpetrators, who make it their mission to prevent intervention. The more these people reenact their childhood abuses, the more worthless they feel, the more their delusional compensators crave reenactment. They are stuck in a loop. It's agony, but we can become more informed and bit by bit, better at consciously identifying personality styles that are dangerous / toxic, and act accordingly to keep ourselves safe. It's also good to understand what those dangerous people were forced through, the betrayals and severity of damage, even though we can't heal them. Sadness. But videos like these and good people like yourselves provide hope.
He always made me feel like I'm the problem all the time and he never accepted any kind of responsibility at all. Everything you are both saying is so correct and spot on. Been through everything you are brining up in this video. I'm so glad to be away from him anymore. I no longer have to deal with that anymore.
They will definitely ruin your health if you are with them long enough. He was the reason I lost the first job which I had when I met him. I was a supervisor too. I have really appreciated this video and guest. Thank you Dr. Sarkis.
I am doing self care after a large battle with s Narcissist but Im in a hurry to heal because the Narc is weaponing up for the next battle they are setting up and because its a business person where I am and they have some authority. They always make sure Im in the game and hoover with a series of issues so there is never any piece. I outlasted one narc but has been a 10 year battle against Narc abuse. Thank you for your help
That's it! You said it well what I felt but couldn't put in word... they are their emotions, their is no separate self. I felt that but had no words! thanks!
I’m realizing more and more everyday at the age of 37 that I have been in a narcissistic relationship for 21 years following my dad’s narcissistic behavior… I’ve never known any differently. I desperately want to be strong and leave this toxic hell but having no support (my mom, dad and sister have passed away) it’s taking me a lot longer to achieve that goal. My mom, grandmom, and sister passed away at very young ages and it’s hard for me to envision myself getting older, finding myself and truly living my purpose while also trying to maintain balance and peace for my kids. I’m stuck in a rut. Thank you for these videos, you remind my of my dad that I lost… I just need help from someone who I know cares about me and I just can’t seem to find that. ❤️💔
@a.@a.pepper, same scenario here. Lot older and very sick as a direct consequence. It's difficult. I wish you well, I know what it's like to be trapped ✌
@@bereal6590 I’m sorry you’re still suffering in silence. I’m sick too. Diagnosed with ulcerative colitis in 2010, complete removal of my large intestine in 2015, diagnosed with Crohn’s disease 2021. But don’t worry, after all of my hospital stays his main priority was getting off, didn’t matter that every part of my body hurt, he told me “your hand still works right?” While also caring for my premature infant and iv pole attached to me at home for tpn. It’s a sick game for him that I don’t want to play anymore
I was just around a toxic person.. My thing is that I pick up their toxicity.. That the empath in me... Learning how to use empath as a gift is my lesson..
As far as the dopamine hit.. I mentioned this before but this is where it applies.. My mom used to corner me before every vacation.. I always thought it was so she could release her anger.. I had this revelation that it was so that she can stay angry.. My guess is there is a lot of dopamine in anger..
Wow... What you both are saying is really helping me.. I don't like the way I am around toxic people but I would rather not people-please them and call it how I see it.. Not give them an inch.. If others see me as being harsh then so be it..
So much is coming up for me right now.. I have been watching Lifetime Christmas Movies and there are so many movies that the person is working in LA for that toxic boss and they move out of there to the country and the people are so much nicer..
Thank you for your excellent conversation. It has been informative and supportive. It is time to call the truth what it is. Some people’s behaviours do harm and damage to others. Plain and simple. We must stay away from toxic people.
It’s important to note; not all therapists get it. I came to my own conclusions that my husband was Narcissistic. My therapist, even after bringing up the subject would never address it.
Advocating for myself has included firing a Dr who didn't have my best interest and wasn't hearing me. I've learned to search for medical professionals (like searching for a trauma informed therapist) and even interview them to see if we're a good fit. Getting a second opinion and going elsewhere is totally your right at any point. Wishing you the best
From JANESVILLE, WISCONSIN USA Thanks again.. Welcome to this awesome guess we are going to get to listen to. God bless you and Gus and your family dear Dr. C.
My ex-husband feigned genuine apologies, during the discard phase. He had a new supply going behind my back and was practising what would be deemed as acceptable to his new supply in the love bombing phase. I am only seeing this now, in hindsight, as he was rapid cycling between love, bombing, devaluing, discarding, repeat, repeat, until the final discard, to which he immediately went to his new supply after 26 years of marriage. The diabolically cruel levels they go to is what is so in fathomable to the ordinary person.
Love bombing and lying still happening here. With no one else in my life to cover the love connection or validation it still offers more than nothing making it harder to disconnect from the abuse.
I got to the point of wanting to leave my job because of someone I worked with exactly as described here. I'd not experienced such a person and it really threw me for a loop in multiple ways. When Dr. Stephanie mentioned this aspect it described exactly how I felt at the time. Luckily my manager (at the time) believed what I was going through and I was reassigned to another department. The perpetrator ultimately left the company, which has since put the company in a much more productive and favorable position business wise.
Dr.C you helped save my life, I’ve learned so much from you ❤, that I was able to develop skills to handle many situations that I would never have imagined possible. I want to thank you from the bottom of my heart that you showed up in the middle of my violin lessons and music on TH-cam, by that time ,March 2022, I had pushed webmd away several times seeing the word “narcissist “ it left a bad taste in my mouth because I never heard the word before, this particular show everything you guys are saying I just went through from March 2022 till July, however right now I can’t afford therapy because I was also robbed by my own children, knocked down, squashed against the wall, squeezed from behind lifted off the floor and violently jumped up and down and I know it went on a long time, he knocked me into another hemisphere of violence by a son and 3wks later that son 37 the police let stay here 10 months tormenting me , a 24hr emergency judge gave me a pfa they were removed but I’ve never had therapy
Hi Dewey. I'm so sorry you've been through all this, but I'm very pleased you are taking your personal recovery so seriously. Thanks for letting me join you on the path.
@@SurvivingNarcissism I wouldn’t be here if I didn’t see you in the middle of a 65” tv surrounded by Alisa Keys and make love to music, it was like a game, which one of the blocks is different lol, I picked you mainly because of the title of your talk, this may not be completely correct, This is what trauma bonding does to a decent person. It took me a couple days to be able to watch it all because every sentence took me back and Id cry and cry. Every talk I watch, Im absorbed in every word, I been out of touch sometimes a couple months, because survival mode kicks in and I’m back in the game again
This was absolutely stupendous, Thank you DR Les and Stephanie, I really needed this, Speaks volumes, I'm very thankful for you DR Les, Peace, love, Respect to you and everyone, Thank you universe 🌟☘⭐😍🌹🕊🌝😆🖼😊🐉🐉🦄💜❤💛💙🌈🌌😃💚🌷🌚👽🎨👁
I try as hard as I can to feel sorrow for my Sociopathic wife, but her abuse and sadistic tactics take a toll. Now I hear from my lawyer there will be no December divorce hearing so she will get away with withholding my daughter for yet another Christmas and my daughter’s 12/26 birthday. There is no justice in our current family court system. Narcissists and Sociopaths just make up lie after lie after lie and good parents lose custody and their God given rights to see their children. 😢 I am not giving up after almost $300k spent on a 2.75 year marriage.
@@Hatbox948 This has been going on since she kidnapped my daughter 7/8/22. I told her 7/11/22 let me see my daughter or I will have to call my lawyer. 2 days later she made up that 17 days prior I attempted to kill her and the courts granted her a rest order with my child included. Rest order abuse is happening everywhere where people just make shit up to obtain.
My notes (edited transcript): 13:59 Dr. C: That person is saying, “I can't do this anymore.” So the narcissistic person is like, “Come on, you know I love you. You know everything's okay. You're just overreacting.” 14:51 Dr. Sarkis: You are told that who you are is not good enough, so you keep trying to bend yourself into the shape that they want. There's also the part that you are becoming a shell of yourself. You may even say, “You know what, this person is being toxic towards me. I'm going to react the same way to them.” because you've tried reasoning with them, you've tried explaining your feelings. You're told your feelings aren't valid, and so people will start having the same behavior. That can be a real conflict for people because they'll say, “This is not who I am. This does not fit with my values and beliefs, to give this person back a taste their own medicine.” It doesn't work anyway because you can't out-toxify a toxic person. They know this routine. There's a playbook that it seems like they use. 16:03 Dr. Sarkis: If you do the gray rock method then they get confused because they're looking for some kind of emotion. Dr. C: They want you to get angry and they want you to be anxious or tense or confused. 19:32 Dr. C: There's something going on behind the scenes in that toxic narcissistic person's life that they're not accessing, and they won't admit it and they won't come to terms with. Dr. Sarkis: There's two different kinds of people that do this. One is that they learn this from their family of origin. Their parents behaved this way, so they learn these toxic behaviors as a way to survive that dysfunctional childhood. But they're continuing to use these behaviors into adulthood where they're very toxic. Then you have people that are just born with what I call bad brain wiring and they will get that high off of controlling people. They don't have the ability to recognize that they're doing this. There is ego dystonic and ego syntonic personality styles. You and I have ego dystonic personality where, if we do something that isn't congruent with our values and beliefs, let's say we rob a bank, we feel kind of funny about that. We feel like we probably should turn ourselves in. Dr. C: You develop a conscience. Dr. Sarkis: Ego syntonic is, “everyone else has a problem; I'm fine.” You're less likely to seek help if you really believe that everyone else is overreacting or everyone else needs to get a sense of humor or whatever the defense mechanism is. They will not admit that they have a problem; they really don't think that they do. Their ego defense is so built up and that narcissistic injury is so big, that they have a hard time even processing the fact that they're in the wrong. That's a very difficult thing to treat. 23:50 Dr. Sarkis: There's no emotion regulation. They are their emotions. (MY NOTE: They can’t get past their emotions and actually examine and think rationally about something that is upsetting to them.) Again, ego dystonic. You feel a certain way and you go, “I'm feeling sad right now. That's temporary. It's going to pass.” But this person’s feeling engulfs them. They can go into a rage over what seems like no trigger at all. They will also do stonewalling, where they ignore you, which is another form of narcissistic rage where they will just act like you're naive and they look right through you. It's very scary for people to see that that someone can have that potential. 24:45 Dr. Sarkis: They will seek out people that have empathy. They will try to mirror, to absorb what they don't have. I see people that are very caring loving people that the toxic person will target. It can feel like being hollowed out by this person. When you're an empathic person, you look at somebody's potential, but we really need to look at, “how is this person right now?” It’s not what they say, it's what they do. They're telling you're the best person ever, but how are they treating you? That's something we really need to look at. Have they shown you courtesy, love, respect, dignity, or are they just telling you the words that that people like to hear? 26:14 Dr. Sarkis: We wouldn't be in this profession unless we thought people could change. But that doesn't always apply in personal life. We need to look at where somebody's at. Having a realistic approach to that. We can be cautiously optimistic, but where is somebody at right now? Healthy relationships take effort, but it's not work. When you're in a toxic relationship it's a lot of work. People will find they're not able to focus in other areas of their lives. All their energy is focused on trying to make the toxic person happy because the toxic person has convinced them that if only they behaved better, then the toxic person would be happy. But this is a person that's never going to be happy. 27:36 Dr. C: One thing that healthy individuals would be able to do is say, “If you and I have a conflict, that means we're about to go into school. We get to learn and find out some things about one another that perhaps we didn't know.” We will have a fuller perspective about where each other's coming from. It may be a little awkward at first, trying to figure it all out, but healthy individuals don't look at conflict as, “What are you doing to me? Why are you saying that?” Dr. Sarkis: It’s the two of you against the issue. A healthy relationship isn't an absence of conflict. It’s about being able to sit down and talk it out and not bring it up later. You come to a resolution. 29:03 Dr. C: They can hoover you back. Not every toxic person is toxic all the time. It's called intermittent reinforcement. There's a consistent inconsistency. Dr. Sarkis: They will be in the middle of a narcissistic rage and stop for a second and compliment you on some food you made for them. It really doesn't make sense. It’s human nature to blame ourselves since this person was great in the beginning and now they're treating us badly, so it must be something we did. Intermittent reinforcement is something that the brain really gets hooked on and that's that trauma bond. You have periods of cortisol and adrenaline when there's violence, including emotional violence, and then you have the hoovering or the honeymoon phase when you get the ‘feel good’ chemicals of dopamine and oxytocin. So, your brain is kind of hooked on that. It's very confusing for the brain to go, “Wait, the person that's causing the conflict is the same one that's treating me well." It's almost like the brain sees them as different people. This is a pretty standard process, a normal process that the brain does when it's under trauma. It can attach to the person that's causing you the trauma. 32:10 Dr. Sarkis: They tell you, “If you just do this one thing, everything would be fine.” So, the person will do that thing but now there's another bar being set. Usually there's something that happens, it's an aha moment, that says, “Wait a second, I'm not the one with the issue.” 38:30 Dr. C: I think one of the biggest hurdles we have to overcome is to realize that even though I want something that's so much better than this, the unfortunate thing is there are some people that don't have that same desire.
"Wisdom, compassion, and courage are the three universally recognized moral qualities of men." -Confucius "Without feelings of respect, what is there to distinguish men from beasts?" -Confucius (again)
Thank you For raising this issue So much truth To the point where my own emotions don't seem to matter anymore Then there is that okay I am not what they say I am They are projecting and I choose not to play their games Many thanks
If you can survive this, you’re going to see the narcissist let go & pursue someone or something else. It worked for me & he has disappeared, but night was the hardest so I put earbuds in while listening to Get Sleepy or some other story telling/ meditation that put me to sleep at last. Concentrate solely on your needs from now on plz ❤
Sleep is vital to mental health. I would ask a qualified health professional about the sleep aspect, since you must get good sleep every night. As for the grey rock, even if you are not showing your internal reaction to the narcissist, you are still having them and they must be processed through therapy or just telling a trusted person who won't get back with the narcissist. The grey rock method works better if it is a temporary way to manage the situation. The ultimate goal should be to get out of the toxic environment so that you can heal, and sleep better.
My 2 cents. (from Italy, with my imperfect English) Find the biggest hurt the narcissist has caused to you. Find and watch the evidence that your biggest hurt was caused by the biggest _fake reality_ the narcissist has made you believe for many years. Realize that it was actually a fake fact. Or a fake idea. Or a fake thought he repeated again and again because he discovered it was your major emotional "trigger button" . Watch it. It's a false reality which caused real toxic emotions to you. But that "reality" was invented by thr narcissist. It doesn't exist at all. At all. Just my 2 cents.
I recently in 2022 was diagnosed with a thyroid condition, my doctor couldn't figure it out...she said you were fine at last check. I having been dealing with the narcissist I married and my health started to breakdown....it does feel like a gross feeling being around him.....im trying to get out with my self jntact...
Yes, there is a palpable eerie, uncomfortable feeling in their presence…even when they’re in a “good” mood. You can never relax and be your authentic self because you never know what will trigger them. It’s exhausting.
*Thank you dr Carter !!!* Here is another great author (whom I didn't know) and again another great book for which I find myself begging, Please, dr Sarkis do the Italian translation to sell the book in Italy too!! Edit. I don't know if the right English verb to use in this case is "beg" or "beseech"... Or "plead" ? OK, then, I beg and beseech and plead 😁
Hi my narcspouse grabbed my phone and tossed it across Jason's Deli when I told him I was going to continue to recrd his tirades!!! Then later he deleted my own comments that I recorded!!!!proof positive that he knows he is wrong and is afraid for anyone', especially his family to see how he behaves!!! Said he was protecting MY reputation!!!!! What can I do to stop this????
Stop proving his abuse ,thats not the point here ,you need to put your energy in thinking about keeping yourself and if you have children safe and get out ,talk to you jp about it ,they could help you .
![[Part 1] รักมาไม่ทันตั้งตัว❤ หนุ่มสาวโสดถูกจับมาแต่งงานกันกะทันหัน แถมเธอยังเป็นหัวหน้าของเขา?!](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/y2pOOMkuFI0/mqdefault.jpg)
Some things I learned were toxic in a relationship with a family member:
* You always end up doing what they want
* You feel misunderstood and put down, but not sure why
* You feel anxious about expressing any need, opinion or idea
* You feel never good enough
* You find yourself humiliated in company and they say nothing (actually, they set the whole thing up)
* They rewrite history to their advantage and tell you you remember wrong or didn't know
* They stonewall you, sometimes for a long time
* You are treated contemptuously , rejected or accused strangely by people you both know, and you have no idea why.
* You are always the one to apologise
* You always do any menial task that needs doing
* They play favourites and blame their least favourite for anything that goes wrong
* You spend a lot of time thinking about how to avoid an upset with them or trying to work out what's wrong
Spot on!
Yup
Yes
Wow ... just look at those eyes. How many of us would trust her as a Councillor?
Absolutely hit nail on the head with each of these, so right!
Your comment that they never apologise, hit the nail on the head!
"Self care is a right, not a luxury." ❤
And very necessary 🙏
Hey, I like this TH-cam channel too along with Societal Narcissism. They're right that self care is a right, not a luxury. The narcs want us to thinking having a self care routine is a crime. I like how she said "boring" is a win.
@rwdchannel2901 good to see you here, fellow SN channel follower! That community including you has healed so much of my troubles and pain 🥰
It’s like they ALL went to the same school to learn these evil behaviors…so strange!
Right. As if there's an annual Narc convention in Vegas w/keynote narc speakers. All attendees are equipped w/a playbook consisting of age old & new tactics during the breakout & roleplay sessions.
It’s eerie isn’t it
It is bizarre.
The DSM lists nine distinct characteristics for narcissism, and I think a person must have at least five at all times in order to get a diagnosis. The truth is, narcissism is not very sophisticated like healthy behaviors are. Narcissism is something you can pick up on the patterns with some practice. The details may be expressed differently from one narcissist to the next, but the overall "types" of behaviors always follow the same set of patterns.
I am 11 months away from this person
I had no idea how mentally drained I was until I was away from him.
One thing I did realize always was that when he wasn’t home I had moments of peace. Now I am realizing potential everyday while I heal. 1-1-23 was my new life. Ongoing work but worth everyday. TY for this info 👍🏻💪🏻
No adult there at all
I hear you…feel the same way about the person I am in the process of leaving…utter peace when he is away. I used to miss him a little and then it gradually became changed into realising how chaotic everything was when he was around and how I never really felt happy or content, just hooked on hoping things would improve
@@melisherwood5300 I have realized,now, the chaos was also a way of deflecting what my ex was up to. Until one is really away the windows of reflection
don’t open up. I discarded him, he did not see it coming. I have 24 yrs . I’m 72 yrs young and in my third act,making everyday count & taking as much time as I need to heal. Was the best move I could have made. No fear,fearless. This community helps,we are not alone.
So happy for you. Can't wait for my utter peace .
@@melisherwood5300 I am 13 months away, divorce signed. I cannot impress upon you how life becomes so much better. Internal work &
realizing the manipulation has been rewarding for me. I wish you the best & realizing that they do not change is half the battle.
We are deserving of more than the breadcrumbs we were thrown, you tube: Sam Vaknin has opened my eyes. My therapist recommendation.
All the therapy we had as a couple,#1 put the focus on him ( he loved that), #2 taught him new forms of manipulation.
Stay strong it gets better.
I guarantee this will be the most worthwhile conversation i hear today. Instant therapy and attention span training.
I'm certain it will be the only worthwhile discussion I'll have today as well because my narcissistic wife doesn't want worthwhile conversations anymore. That stopped years ago after she realized I wont' tolerate her manipulation anymore. She's since manipulated our daughter to basically hate me. She no longer speaks to me and when I try to engage with her it usually goes nowhere. At work, most of my coworkers are much younger than me and conversations are usually brief and/or trivial so any conversation this meaningful is highly desirable.
@@koma4050what a sad existence. It's definitely doable because I lived it and survived but I do remember the intermittent sadness.
I totally agree ❤
That why I thought he had 2 different personalities, cognitive dissonance. He was really nice one day and then horrible monster six months after that the cruelest most horrible things to you never apologize. Oh wait, he would apologize when I was younger because he wanted sex.
"Whittle away, whittle away, whittle away." Dr. C nails it. And Dr. Carlos nails it with "becoming a shell of a person." Awesome interview! Jam packed with insight and information .
They're only "sorry" that they got caught.
And they desperately need to be caught/busted in order for the abuse to stop.
They are never sorry
Excellent video!! Jam packed with wisdom! The narcissist has a deep void that must be filled by others feeding off of drama, chaos, and dysfunction.
No adult home
Harrys wife
@@SaddleRockManitou me too!! I forgot to mention the narcissist also thrives on control! If they can’t have it or if they can’t have you it throws their world upside down. Narcissists are incredibly interesting Individuals. I also feel like there’s a strong correlation between narcissism and substance abuse. The narcissists I can think of individually abuse alcohol, Vicodin, and Meth.
@@maidmarion2976 Ha! Meghan Markle?! I’d strongly agree with that. 😉
@@caroleminke6116 Absolutely! We’re talkin 6 year old children in the adults of 70 year old men and women. Pathetic. Sad. Disheartening.
Sleep deprivation purposely instigated by my ex made me fear I would lose my job.. truly evil. Thank you for bringing up. They want to keep you off balance and too energetically depleted to leave, but the day I decided to leave was the first night I had slept in months. Life is SO good now in respectful relationships ❤
She is describing my parents exactly 💯! It is crazy how exact her details are. I went “no contact” w both my parents in 2010 early 2011 and it was amazing how normal and nice life became once they were gone. The only problem is that they turned my son against me. They told him I’m crazy etc. Also they made sure his narcissistic abusive father got full custody. Birds of a feather flock together in this case anyway. I only wish I had gone no contact before I had children. My son was my life. I did everything for him. I loved him more than anything in the world and still do but I may never see him again. Its been 13 years since I’ve seen him. I’ve been through hell. Narcissists can be very dangerous. It’s nothing to take lightly. Please get out if you can.
Much of this describes my former experience of decades. I'd say to myself, "Never smile at a crocodile 'cause you can't get friendly with a crocodile." That often helped to regulate my trauma bond. Finally after years of things going awry, I realized I had to leave. There were no guidelines like we have with this video.
"Ohhh stop you know i didn't mean it"
An unapology apology!!
Everything in this video rings true! I've worked with a toxic family member for 28 years and it has taken a heavy toll on me. It feels like being a rat on a wheel dealing with people like this. I'm left feeling confused and angry after being around this person. It's so hard to deal with.
Last partner acted like a victim, 'poor me! no one likes me and everyone says I am such a bad and angry person!' And yet, they WERE an angry and bad person, and didn't seem to think that any of this feedback was worth taking to heart. Just acted like he was a victim and people were being mean to him. And yet, he would talk me down to others behind my back, and acted like 'she is so unstable and fickle with me.' Sheesh !!
This conversation is so helpful, and the lists of characteristics is great. He keeps coming back as well, and yet now I am very detached and honest and he doesn't like that. I keep asking him, 'what are you going to do about that?' 'Do you agree with the feedback? you could work on yourself if you think it would make things better for you.' He hates that, and yet - that is all he gets from me now. "I hope that you heal your childhood pain so that you can have a happier life.'
This was excellent! I love the examples of Hoovering. Yesterday, 6 months after I moved out (after 42.5 years married) my husband asked “what can I do?” 😂When I said “nothing” he said “maybe I should just end it all now”, meaning, I guess, his life. I learned from this channel that this is the ultimate control ploy, so I was prepared. Thank you!
Two keen minds together. Thank you Dr. C and Stephanie.
This is particularly problematic if it is an “extended family/in town” relationship, where you are effectively trapped and subjected to this person’s relational abuse. My advice: Move to a town several hours drive away, because the situation will never improve; you will always be seen as a rival to this very insecure person.
"They learn these behaviors, these toxic behaviors, as a way to survive."
Yes, absolutely.
Deep down they think they aren't good enough and they want company in that space so they don' t feel alone. That's one reason why they demean other people.
My son had them from birth.
@@maidmarion2976I really believe that it’s generational especially if that parent has clan of narcs like my husband .. it feels like a cult all of his brothers are narcs and my mother in law was queen bee narc . They refused to see are first born bc I’m not from their country .. they hate Americans but love the Dollar . 😵💫
“These (toxic) people are energy vampires.”-Dr. Sarkis, you nailed it!
And both Dr. C and Dr. Sarkis, thank you for emphasizing the need for self-care toward the end of this dialogue! Seek out true friends who can be a support system and also professional counseling, when needed. “Go back to your definition of you…”(those 20 plus character traits Dr. C challenges us to create) and be true to who you are. -Dr. C
God bless you both for the work you do and for sharing how people can heal. ❤🙏🏻
Dr. C's channel is one of my favorite, and Stephanie's book, Gaslighting, is one that I have read at least 7 times. It's phenomenal. Excellent conversation today!
50 years never apologized
.recently after a escalated convo when he said nastily "You don't get along with anyone Debra" I asked him to apologize...he finally said. "Tell me what I should say to apologize"
Yes, it's like talking with 2 seperate people. I wish I could share all my texts from this person. The playbook you talk about is real. I'm so heartbroken. They destroy your life and hurt themselves also in process. There need to be laws made specifically for narcissistic abuse. They hurt so many people with their games. I appreciate all the information.. both of you Doctors are correct about everything said in video. Thank you so much. 🙏
Their games are sadisticly childish
Thank you for addressing this topic!
TRUTH be told ❤️🙏
You are so welcome
My ex apologized a lot. He would even change his behavior. He just kept upping his covert game though. This really caused a lot of confusion.
The worst part is he would complain and tell me that he always apologized and that I almost never did. He was right. I'd tell him that when I was in the wrong I would apologize, but that I wasn't sorry for not bowing to him or for not taking his crap.
He would say I'm sorry and stop doing the covert abuse thing, but would always find a new way to physically abuse me all in the name of fun.
Plus he was living a double life almost our entire marriage.
I had been in two relationships before him so I had learned the basics of their tactics. Me having better boundaries and holding him accountable only increased a change of covert tactics. I was always 10 steps behind in fighting through my confused state of mind.
I didn't realize until several years after my divorce that he was a narcissist.
Fifteen years free of him and I'm still thrilled to be free. Yes, it was that bad.
⭐"I'm still thrilled to be free". ⭐
I Love that! So glad for you!
Like a golden road of freedom opened up for me, and I agree it is a total thrill.
Bless you and thank you both. This is the first time I have heard anyone highlight the sleep deprivation. "Who does that?" Exactly, Dr C. Not being able to wrap my head around it kept me in it for years. I just couldn't believe it. The divorce hearing is tomorrow.
I hope everything went well
Yes, thank you. A couple of hiccups but the divorce is final in a couple of weeks. I feel free @@melissamiddleton3026
I can't beleive she just explained his behavior perfectly, when I started listening to Dr C, I started to tell myself you're smart,you're beautiful, you're kind, thoughtful, love people you have empathy, and I never deviate from that, because he never let up, My sister recently received health diagnoses and she is going to need myself and other siblings for support when he realized this he has spent the last week, Gaslighting, name calling, it is so sad. His favorite word is let God take care of it.
As long as the person who should keep you protected supplies the toxic culprit and seems to be working against your wellbeing you have no recourse.
I can't believe what I am hearing, seeing, experiencing.
I am waiting for a call from hospice to explain my situation better. I need answers and I can't be the answer. I need to extract myself from the harm.
I, personally had no support system and I learned that he had the power of persuasion over those in the legal field and in the police force as well as those outside the family. He took pride in himself in the ability to manipulate others with his body language, facial expressions and tears and I witnessed this as one of his form of weapons against anyone he wanted to hurt or bring down. He hurt a lot of people behind their back, yet pretended to be their confidante or friend to their face. He was evil yet most everyone saw him as the nicest guy.
It’s not our fault to fall, we all do,it’s our responsibility to get up!
Wisdom for the ages!
Yes, this is so confusing when people behave like they are caring and loving, but at the same time they can lash out on you, place you much lower than their momentary interests (like a tv show or smthng), and are easily irritated / agitated.
But irregularities in people just put me off now, my trust is broken
Hello Drs. Carter, Sarkis, Gus and the Team healthy Community from California. I had a productive happy life before I got into this nightmare. Lost job but Thank God I got a better one so I have been able to be independent which I always was. I learned never to ask for anything as a child in a narcissistic family. Thank you so much for a great guest and video that is very informative and educational Dr. Carter and Dr. Sarkis. May you both be blessed.
Thank you for sharing these discussions. I'm glad to see you're willing to acknowledge the developmental traumas that cause these personality styles. When we are traumatised as kids, a part of us gets emotionally stuck at that age. So it's clear that a person who was traumatised their entire childhood (always neglected, exploited, attacked and never given the space to grow and have safety and a self) would have endless anger, triggers everywhere. People develop habits / addictions to the delusional pleasures of compensation mechanisms, such as the need to control others or reenact more cruel things that had been done to them. People survive childhoods where they are persistently made to feel worthless by disconnecting from empathy, since that is a liability in such environments. There aren't systems to uphold children's rights, because what systems society has are corrupted by perpetrators, who make it their mission to prevent intervention. The more these people reenact their childhood abuses, the more worthless they feel, the more their delusional compensators crave reenactment. They are stuck in a loop.
It's agony, but we can become more informed and bit by bit, better at consciously identifying personality styles that are dangerous / toxic, and act accordingly to keep ourselves safe. It's also good to understand what those dangerous people were forced through, the betrayals and severity of damage, even though we can't heal them. Sadness. But videos like these and good people like yourselves provide hope.
Despite growing up with 2 narcissists and marrying one, I have and continue to choose empathy!
He always made me feel like I'm the problem all the time and he never accepted any kind of responsibility at all. Everything you are both saying is so correct and spot on. Been through everything you are brining up in this video. I'm so glad to be away from him anymore. I no longer have to deal with that anymore.
They will definitely ruin your health if you are with them long enough. He was the reason I lost the first job which I had when I met him. I was a supervisor too. I have really appreciated this video and guest. Thank you Dr. Sarkis.
I am doing self care after a large battle with s Narcissist but Im in a hurry to heal because the Narc is weaponing up for the next battle they are setting up and because its a business person where I am and they have some authority. They always make sure Im in the game and hoover with a series of issues so there is never any piece. I outlasted one narc but has been a 10 year battle against Narc abuse. Thank you for your help
I´m in the middle of something absolutely final and painful with a friend. I´m glad to get this support from true professionals.
That's it! You said it well what I felt but couldn't put in word... they are their emotions, their is no separate self. I felt that but had no words! thanks!
Fantastic Interview 🎉
Glad you enjoyed it! I enjoyed the interview!
Dr. Sarkis is a great guest. Thanks for having her.
I’m realizing more and more everyday at the age of 37 that I have been in a narcissistic relationship for 21 years following my dad’s narcissistic behavior… I’ve never known any differently. I desperately want to be strong and leave this toxic hell but having no support (my mom, dad and sister have passed away) it’s taking me a lot longer to achieve that goal. My mom, grandmom, and sister passed away at very young ages and it’s hard for me to envision myself getting older, finding myself and truly living my purpose while also trying to maintain balance and peace for my kids. I’m stuck in a rut. Thank you for these videos, you remind my of my dad that I lost… I just need help from someone who I know cares about me and I just can’t seem to find that. ❤️💔
the help you need is ALL within you.
By the way, you are ahead of the game figuring this out at age 37!
Q, no need to hurry. Learn to see the red flags to avoid, and the green ones to maintain. Don't settle.
@a.@a.pepper, same scenario here. Lot older and very sick as a direct consequence. It's difficult. I wish you well, I know what it's like to be trapped ✌
@@bereal6590 I’m sorry you’re still suffering in silence. I’m sick too. Diagnosed with ulcerative colitis in 2010, complete removal of my large intestine in 2015, diagnosed with Crohn’s disease 2021. But don’t worry, after all of my hospital stays his main priority was getting off, didn’t matter that every part of my body hurt, he told me “your hand still works right?” While also caring for my premature infant and iv pole attached to me at home for tpn. It’s a sick game for him that I don’t want to play anymore
Two different people indeed. I lived with an alcoholic narcissist for 32 years. I’m still learning and healing 18 years after he passed.
Excellent presentation. So many incredible bits of info! Thanks so much ❤
Glad it was helpful!
Another very important video and what a lovely lady. Thank-you 🙏
You are so welcome!
I was just around a toxic person.. My thing is that I pick up their toxicity.. That the empath in me... Learning how to use empath as a gift is my lesson..
As far as the dopamine hit.. I mentioned this before but this is where it applies.. My mom used to corner me before every vacation.. I always thought it was so she could release her anger.. I had this revelation that it was so that she can stay angry.. My guess is there is a lot of dopamine in anger..
Wow... What you both are saying is really helping me.. I don't like the way I am around toxic people but I would rather not people-please them and call it how I see it.. Not give them an inch.. If others see me as being harsh then so be it..
So much is coming up for me right now.. I have been watching Lifetime Christmas Movies and there are so many movies that the person is working in LA for that toxic boss and they move out of there to the country and the people are so much nicer..
The flying monkies can be even more toxic than the toxic person...
excellent vid Dr Sarkis is beyond spot on informative going to re watch thank u Dr C
Glad it was helpful! She's a gem!
Thank you for your excellent conversation. It has been informative and supportive. It is time to call the truth what it is. Some people’s behaviours do harm and damage to others. Plain and simple. We must stay away from toxic people.
It’s important to note; not all therapists get it.
I came to my own conclusions that my husband was Narcissistic. My therapist, even after bringing up the subject would never address it.
You MUST get yourself a therapist who understands; you really need good therapy right now
Advocating for myself has included firing a Dr who didn't have my best interest and wasn't hearing me. I've learned to search for medical professionals (like searching for a trauma informed therapist) and even interview them to see if we're a good fit. Getting a second opinion and going elsewhere is totally your right at any point. Wishing you the best
I was so used to being discounted that I had trouble understanding when someone was really trying to support me. It was all part of the snare.
From JANESVILLE, WISCONSIN USA
Thanks again.. Welcome to this awesome guess we are going to get to listen to. God bless you and Gus and your family dear Dr. C.
My ex-husband feigned genuine apologies, during the discard phase.
He had a new supply going behind my back and was practising what would be deemed as acceptable to his new supply in the love bombing phase. I am only seeing this now, in hindsight, as he was rapid cycling between love, bombing, devaluing, discarding, repeat, repeat, until the final discard, to which he immediately went to his new supply after 26 years of marriage. The diabolically cruel levels they go to is what is so in fathomable to the ordinary person.
Love bombing and lying still happening here. With no one else in my life to cover the love connection or validation it still offers more than nothing making it harder to disconnect from the abuse.
My narcissistic sibling has ruined almost every holiday for the last 40 years, all for the reasons mentioned in this video.
I got to the point of wanting to leave my job because of someone I worked with exactly as described here. I'd not experienced such a person and it really threw me for a loop in multiple ways. When Dr. Stephanie mentioned this aspect it described exactly how I felt at the time. Luckily my manager (at the time) believed what I was going through and I was reassigned to another department. The perpetrator ultimately left the company, which has since put the company in a much more productive and favorable position business wise.
Dr.C you helped save my life, I’ve learned so much from you ❤, that I was able to develop skills to handle many situations that I would never have imagined possible. I want to thank you from the bottom of my heart that you showed up in the middle of my violin lessons and music on TH-cam, by that time ,March 2022, I had pushed webmd away several times seeing the word “narcissist “ it left a bad taste in my mouth because I never heard the word before, this particular show everything you guys are saying I just went through from March 2022 till July, however right now I can’t afford therapy because I was also robbed by my own children, knocked down, squashed against the wall, squeezed from behind lifted off the floor and violently jumped up and down and I know it went on a long time, he knocked me into another hemisphere of violence by a son and 3wks later that son 37 the police let stay here 10 months tormenting me , a 24hr emergency judge gave me a pfa they were removed but I’ve never had therapy
Hi Dewey. I'm so sorry you've been through all this, but I'm very pleased you are taking your personal recovery so seriously. Thanks for letting me join you on the path.
@@SurvivingNarcissism I wouldn’t be here if I didn’t see you in the middle of a 65” tv surrounded by Alisa Keys and make love to music, it was like a game, which one of the blocks is different lol, I picked you mainly because of the title of your talk, this may not be completely correct, This is what trauma bonding does to a decent person. It took me a couple days to be able to watch it all because every sentence took me back and Id cry and cry. Every talk I watch, Im absorbed in every word, I been out of touch sometimes a couple months, because survival mode kicks in and I’m back in the game again
This was absolutely stupendous, Thank you DR Les and Stephanie, I really needed this, Speaks volumes, I'm very thankful for you DR Les, Peace, love, Respect to you and everyone, Thank you universe 🌟☘⭐😍🌹🕊🌝😆🖼😊🐉🐉🦄💜❤💛💙🌈🌌😃💚🌷🌚👽🎨👁
How do they have time to work & live their lives? They’re so busy being destructive & causing crazy chaos.
I think it's because they often get other people to do a lot of their work for them.
Narcissists have a good public persona and an abusive persona behind closed doors with the people closest to them.
Very interesting topics and remarkable guest thank you 😊
Glad you enjoyed it!
Whittling away, Whittling away, Whittling away!
Hi all. Great topic! 🤠
This is my FOO! So much grieving seeing them for who they are.
I try as hard as I can to feel sorrow for my Sociopathic wife, but her abuse and sadistic tactics take a toll. Now I hear from my lawyer there will be no December divorce hearing so she will get away with withholding my daughter for yet another Christmas and my daughter’s 12/26 birthday. There is no justice in our current family court system. Narcissists and Sociopaths just make up lie after lie after lie and good parents lose custody and their God given rights to see their children. 😢 I am not giving up after almost $300k spent on a 2.75 year marriage.
Wow. Hang in there!
@@Hatbox948 This has been going on since she kidnapped my daughter 7/8/22. I told her 7/11/22 let me see my daughter or I will have to call my lawyer. 2 days later she made up that 17 days prior I attempted to kill her and the courts granted her a rest order with my child included. Rest order abuse is happening everywhere where people just make shit up to obtain.
My notes (edited transcript):
13:59 Dr. C: That person is saying, “I can't do this anymore.” So the narcissistic person is like, “Come on, you know I love you. You know everything's okay. You're just overreacting.”
14:51 Dr. Sarkis: You are told that who you are is not good enough, so you keep trying to bend yourself into the shape that they want. There's also the part that you are becoming a shell of yourself. You may even say, “You know what, this person is being toxic towards me. I'm going to react the same way to them.” because you've tried reasoning with them, you've tried explaining your feelings. You're told your feelings aren't valid, and so people will start having the same behavior. That can be a real conflict for people because they'll say, “This is not who I am. This does not fit with my values and beliefs, to give this person back a taste their own medicine.” It doesn't work anyway because you can't out-toxify a toxic person. They know this routine. There's a playbook that it seems like they use.
16:03 Dr. Sarkis: If you do the gray rock method then they get confused because they're looking for some kind of emotion.
Dr. C: They want you to get angry and they want you to be anxious or tense or confused.
19:32 Dr. C: There's something going on behind the scenes in that toxic narcissistic person's life that they're not accessing, and they won't admit it and they won't come to terms with.
Dr. Sarkis: There's two different kinds of people that do this. One is that they learn this from their family of origin. Their parents behaved this way, so they learn these toxic behaviors as a way to survive that dysfunctional childhood. But they're continuing to use these behaviors into adulthood where they're very toxic. Then you have people that are just born with what I call bad brain wiring and they will get that high off of controlling people. They don't have the ability to recognize that they're doing this. There is ego dystonic and ego syntonic personality styles. You and I have ego dystonic personality where, if we do something that isn't congruent with our values and beliefs, let's say we rob a bank, we feel kind of funny about that. We feel like we probably should turn ourselves in.
Dr. C: You develop a conscience.
Dr. Sarkis: Ego syntonic is, “everyone else has a problem; I'm fine.” You're less likely to seek help if you really believe that everyone else is overreacting or everyone else needs to get a sense of humor or whatever the defense mechanism is. They will not admit that they have a problem; they really don't think that they do. Their ego defense is so built up and that narcissistic injury is so big, that they have a hard time even processing the fact that they're in the wrong. That's a very difficult thing to treat.
23:50 Dr. Sarkis: There's no emotion regulation. They are their emotions. (MY NOTE: They can’t get past their emotions and actually examine and think rationally about something that is upsetting to them.) Again, ego dystonic. You feel a certain way and you go, “I'm feeling sad right now. That's temporary. It's going to pass.” But this person’s feeling engulfs them. They can go into a rage over what seems like no trigger at all. They will also do stonewalling, where they ignore you, which is another form of narcissistic rage where they will just act like you're naive and they look right through you. It's very scary for people to see that that someone can have that potential.
24:45 Dr. Sarkis: They will seek out people that have empathy. They will try to mirror, to absorb what they don't have. I see people that are very caring loving people that the toxic person will target. It can feel like being hollowed out by this person. When you're an empathic person, you look at somebody's potential, but we really need to look at, “how is this person right now?” It’s not what they say, it's what they do. They're telling you're the best person ever, but how are they treating you? That's something we really need to look at. Have they shown you courtesy, love, respect, dignity, or are they just telling you the words that that people like to hear?
26:14 Dr. Sarkis: We wouldn't be in this profession unless we thought people could change. But that doesn't always apply in personal life. We need to look at where somebody's at. Having a realistic approach to that. We can be cautiously optimistic, but where is somebody at right now? Healthy relationships take effort, but it's not work. When you're in a toxic relationship it's a lot of work. People will find they're not able to focus in other areas of their lives. All their energy is focused on trying to make the toxic person happy because the toxic person has convinced them that if only they behaved better, then the toxic person would be happy. But this is a person that's never going to be happy.
27:36 Dr. C: One thing that healthy individuals would be able to do is say, “If you and I have a conflict, that means we're about to go into school. We get to learn and find out some things about one another that perhaps we didn't know.” We will have a fuller perspective about where each other's coming from. It may be a little awkward at first, trying to figure it all out, but healthy individuals don't look at conflict as, “What are you doing to me? Why are you saying that?”
Dr. Sarkis: It’s the two of you against the issue. A healthy relationship isn't an absence of conflict. It’s about being able to sit down and talk it out and not bring it up later. You come to a resolution.
29:03 Dr. C: They can hoover you back. Not every toxic person is toxic all the time. It's called intermittent reinforcement. There's a consistent inconsistency.
Dr. Sarkis: They will be in the middle of a narcissistic rage and stop for a second and compliment you on some food you made for them. It really doesn't make sense. It’s human nature to blame ourselves since this person was great in the beginning and now they're treating us badly, so it must be something we did. Intermittent reinforcement is something that the brain really gets hooked on and that's that trauma bond. You have periods of cortisol and adrenaline when there's violence, including emotional violence, and then you have the hoovering or the honeymoon phase when you get the ‘feel good’ chemicals of dopamine and oxytocin. So, your brain is kind of hooked on that. It's very confusing for the brain to go, “Wait, the person that's causing the conflict is the same one that's treating me well." It's almost like the brain sees them as different people. This is a pretty standard process, a normal process that the brain does when it's under trauma. It can attach to the person that's causing you the trauma.
32:10 Dr. Sarkis: They tell you, “If you just do this one thing, everything would be fine.” So, the person will do that thing but now there's another bar being set. Usually there's something that happens, it's an aha moment, that says, “Wait a second, I'm not the one with the issue.”
38:30 Dr. C: I think one of the biggest hurdles we have to overcome is to realize that even though I want something that's so much better than this, the unfortunate thing is there are some people that don't have that same desire.
yeap
31:28 about the Stockholm syndrome... so spot on
Brain sees them as different people- I remember telling the narc that. He said “pick one!” Meaning - one I stay the other I go.
The ex narc used to say to me, "If you would only act right... !" When I questioned him what "right" meant, I never got an answer.
He said to me one time ,why can't you be normal ,which ment ,why can't you be how i want you to be .
Excellent guest and interview! Thank you
Glad you enjoyed it!
Wish I had this years ago when I was with my ex.. this is spot on!!!!
Thank you for this! ❤
You're so welcome!
Awesome ! Thanks Dr. C and Dr. Sarkis !! 🎉❤
Glad you enjoyed it!
Phenomenal interview ❤
Incredible
Yes, undermined my jobs, graduation and parenting
Praise god for this video ❤now I feel like I’m not crazy!
I LIKE HER!
Sometimes the confusion is subtle and not so obvious.
A Depletion of yr Identity.Thankyou to you both Truth of how it is .
Thank you for this incredibly informative and insightful. I’ve been soo confused, thank you both 🙏🏼
Just purchased Dr. Stephanie’s book.
"Wisdom, compassion, and courage are the three universally recognized moral qualities of men."
-Confucius
"Without feelings of respect, what is there to distinguish men from beasts?"
-Confucius (again)
That Confusius fellow knew what he was talking about.
@@SurvivingNarcissism Indeed he did. Smart but also kept it simple.
Yes I just did this. Went and had a complete work-up
Thanks for the video ❤
You're welcome
Great conversation 👏🏼🙏🏼
Wow really good video thank you both I’m going to get her book .
Thank you - so helpful :)
So many lightbulb moments in this video! Thank you for facilitating this guest Dr C, just ordered Stephanie’s book to continue the learning
Beautiful guys thank you so much!
You're quite welcome.
Thank you
You're welcome
Thank you for the permission to be pessimistic 👍
Thank you! Healing information. 🙏🏻
Thank you for this video, there are so many wonderful insights that will truly make a difference to me x
Glad it was helpful!
This is so valuable!
Thank you
For raising this issue
So
much
truth
To the point where my own emotions don't seem to matter anymore
Then there is that okay I am not what they say I am
They are projecting and I choose not to play their games
Many thanks
Im working on doing the grey rock, but due to the stress of all the bull crap I'm having trouble sleeping. Any tips, anyone? Thank you
If you can survive this, you’re going to see the narcissist let go & pursue someone or something else. It worked for me & he has disappeared, but night was the hardest so I put earbuds in while listening to Get Sleepy or some other story telling/ meditation that put me to sleep at last. Concentrate solely on your needs from now on plz ❤
Coffee with a friend to vent
Massage therapy
Be near nature or body of water
Sleep is vital to mental health. I would ask a qualified health professional about the sleep aspect, since you must get good sleep every night. As for the grey rock, even if you are not showing your internal reaction to the narcissist, you are still having them and they must be processed through therapy or just telling a trusted person who won't get back with the narcissist. The grey rock method works better if it is a temporary way to manage the situation. The ultimate goal should be to get out of the toxic environment so that you can heal, and sleep better.
My 2 cents.
(from Italy, with my imperfect English)
Find the biggest hurt the narcissist has caused to you.
Find and watch the evidence that your biggest hurt was caused by the biggest _fake reality_ the narcissist has made you believe for many years.
Realize that it was actually a fake fact. Or a fake idea. Or a fake thought he repeated again and again because he discovered it was your major emotional "trigger button" .
Watch it. It's a false reality which caused real toxic emotions to you. But that "reality" was invented by thr narcissist. It doesn't exist at all. At all.
Just my 2 cents.
Hello Dr. C, Dr. Sarkis and Everybody🙂 Such an insightful discussion, looking forward for more Dr. C, many thanks to both of you and everyone🙏🌷🕊💝🤗
Thank you, Dr. C & Dr. Stephanie. This was very informative & helpful.
I received a lot of fake apologies and false hope, promises to change. I do think they “apologize” but as another way to manipulate.
They are always making you do a double take...because their actions and words should become more loving over time, not less loving!!!
Cognitive dissonance for sure!
I recently in 2022 was diagnosed with a thyroid condition, my doctor couldn't figure it out...she said you were fine at last check. I having been dealing with the narcissist I married and my health started to breakdown....it does feel like a gross feeling being around him.....im trying to get out with my self jntact...
You will heal if you do 😊
Yes, there is a palpable eerie, uncomfortable feeling in their presence…even when they’re in a “good” mood. You can never relax and be your authentic self because you never know what will trigger them. It’s exhausting.
This was amazing
Thank you that was informative
*Thank you dr Carter !!!*
Here is another great author (whom I didn't know) and again another great book for which I find myself begging, Please, dr Sarkis do the Italian translation to sell the book in Italy too!!
Edit. I don't know if the right English verb to use in this case is "beg" or "beseech"... Or "plead"
?
OK, then, I beg and beseech and plead 😁
I'm in.
Hi my narcspouse grabbed my phone and tossed it across Jason's Deli when I told him I was going to continue to recrd his tirades!!! Then later he deleted my own comments that I recorded!!!!proof positive that he knows he is wrong and is afraid for anyone', especially his family to see how he behaves!!! Said he was protecting MY reputation!!!!! What can I do to stop this????
Leave.
Hopefully you can retrieve that from "the cloud", or whatever it's called
Stop proving his abuse ,thats not the point here ,you need to put your energy in thinking about keeping yourself and if you have children safe and get out ,talk to you jp about it ,they could help you .