Should you Buy the Ball Bearing or Journal Bearing Turbo?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 ก.ค. 2024
- Are Ball bearing turbos really worth the extra money over their journal-bearing counterparts? Today we cover the pros and cons of each option as well as what may be a better setup for what you might be looking for. There are no right or wrong answers for if one is better than the other. Both are solid choices and really your only choices. Journal-bearing turbos are a fantastic option for most street cars on the road and are often looked down upon by their ball-bearing counterparts!
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2:32 from a ex skater/BMXr ... I salute you. You DANG right BONE SWISS. BTW, I know this is a old vid, but your content has helped SOOOOOOOOOOOO much with my VA WRX build. When I research, you're one of my first references.
This is by far the best Subaru related channel. You inspired me to build a new turbo Subaru for myself. Currently I'm working on fixing my 2002 outback head gaskets and conrod bearings :D
Save the outback 🥳🥳🥳
ez30? best mota 👍🏼
As a proud owner of a street driven STI with a Dom1.5 XTR setup you'd have a very hard time convincing me to go back to a JB turbo..
Great info for those on the potential lookout for upgrades, T!
I have the same turbo on my sti and I love it
I also have a daily driven Sti with a blouch 18g xtr. Looking for more power so thinking very strongly about getting the 1.5 Dom. I'm still on my oem TMIC. When do you get full boost on your dom? Any reason you choose the dom over a FP green (other turbo I am considering)?
Got the same turbo man, couldn’t believe how quiet it was compared to stock turbo
Almost no spool up whistle
I have full bolt on I run the Rcm 400 on e-85 it made 445/435 . On 21 pounds
That's awesome man! What rpm do you reach full boost?
I learned something new today! I had no idea about the cooling fins on the cartridge of a ball bearing vs journal bearing. I thought that was just design differences between brands or size of turbo 🤔. Better smack that WRX off the limiter for a minute straight bud 100k is coming fast! 👀 This was an unreal video 🤙🏼
Love your edumacation content. So clear and informative.
I also share your sentiments on Turbo Timers....
Thank you for the video and knowledge! This will help for a future purchase for sure
Glad I could help 🥳🥳🥳
Great video...a lot of ppl brag about having a ball bearing turbo or make a face if you mention your turbo upgrade was journal vs bb...it makes no difference except they admit they basically over paid for a street/weekend set up lol. I had a journal bearing in my 91 miata and made 300whp reliably without issues for about 20k miles before it sat and i just ended up selling it. i just bought a big turbo upgrade for my 2016 FoST and its journal bearing..still can make 500whp all day long and has both oil and coolant cooling.. i saved a ton by not buying a ball bearing upgrade that wont be a 'high horsepower/track beast!!!!!!' lol. I was curious about the side to side turbine play myself when i got mine..i opened it up and was like 'hmm...theres a tiny bit of shaft play'...but then realized it was normal ^_^
Keep these educational videos coming as well bro we want all the smeedia content! 🔥
Oooh that variable pressure restrictor on the ball bearing oil line is exactly the right thing to use and you can set it up for many turbos and scenario.
Love your videos it’s helping me get through a rough patch in my life. I’m happy watching you because of your positive attitude and enthusiasm. I don’t know you personally but I love you man keep it up. Thank you for making peaceful videos and not being afraid to show your excitement that you have about your builds. Thanks.
I would love to change my car to a six cylinder after hearing the sound, yours made. Just beautiful!
Awesome video. Practical application of turbos and use the saved money for something to support the engine.
So much info man i love it 🙌 thank you for another banger
Glaf I can share 🙏🔥
Love the video very informative in a understandable way.
Thank you! 🥳
Whats us man, new subcriber here. Let me first say I'm catching up on videos but so far this channel is the best I've seen so far! Great info and honesty! I just recently bought me a 21 wrx premium and was curious, what is that reliable HP I can see without risking sending a piston into space😅 Just looking for a good daily and once I get my feet wet I'll be looking into getting an STI and building it up. Love the content and keep those videos rolling💪
Probably don’t remember but I commented on your channel year ago at this point about you hitting 100k subs I see that it’s coming to a reality soon. You deserve it man
Thank you Ben! Definitely been a journey!
This is just the question I was wondering about, thank you!
🤝🤝🤝
Maybe do a journal bearing turbo rebuild video in the future? Awesome content thanks bro. Which part of WA are you out of?
Good video! I learnt something 👍🏼
"We're gunna dingle the balls we're gunna play with the shaft" aight bro lmfao
I had to 😭🤣
Good info! Educated me on a couple things.
Glad I could share my friend 🥳
Beautiful info good sir thank you. Love it
Anytime my friend 🥳
Havent heard anyone say bones swiss since the 90s in my speedskating days. Happydance!!!
BONE SWISS BABY
A ball bearing turbo does not spool much sooner rpm-wise, it has almost exactly the same rpm to boost pressure curve as on a journal bearing(boost treshold).
The difference is that the ball bearing spins up faster resulting in less "turbo lag".
That means you might have the same boost level/rpm of the car few tenths of a second sooner vs a journal bearing.
The effect is usually more pronounced at low and midrange and shrinks to little to no difference at higher rpms
(there is much more exhaust velocity and volume driving the turbine, making the higher resistance of the journal bearing affect less on the acceleration of the turbocharger's axle)
If you want a turbocharger to spool up sooner in the rpm range you should consider decreasing the turbine or turbine housing size. (has a negative effect on top-end)
Increasing the compressor size might also help, but i presume to a smaller degree.
I got the base model of this car, fwd drive, but still love it
Thanks for this. Wasn't sure if I should go with the Garrett G22-350 journal bearing for half the cost. Save myself a few bucks.
Great turbo knowledge. I love the display/teaching moments like this, fun to learn stuff!
Fun to do these every now and then 🥳
Another banger. I’ve contemplated running the turbo smart restrictor on my ball bearing blouch. I’ve observed if I start the car then shut it right back off, before warming up, the car will burn off oil when started again for the first few miles. Good CLTs, compression, correct turbo restrictor, proper crankcase ventilation with AOS etc. Car doesn’t smoke at all outside of this occurrence. A coworker with some Porsche knowledge claims he’s seen it on modified Porsche turbos and may be inherent to the engine design. Anyone have any experience with this phenomena?
Thanks for tutorial teacher, will there be a quiz at the end of the week. Great explanation Tanner. Any reason why you wouldn't run dual turbos? 🤔🤔🤔
Yesss I love talkin about turbos theirs so much misinformation I love it when people can actually explain it 🤘
🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏
Glad they don’t have a rule about if can’t hold you’re turbo can’t use it lol. Got a ball bearing turbo from a vf48 and love it.
Did you like the FP Blue on V1 of Blue? I'm considering a FP Blue or Green for my 2015 sti. Probably going with Ethanol too. (TypeRA Long block with cyl 4 cooling mod and all the killer B oiling goodies. I'd go FMIC or larger TMIC in the process, still deciding.)
Hey man I've got a blown VF48 and it'd be cool to see a vid on rebuilding them. Do you have any experience with the melett cartridges from the UK? heard Blingstrom had good experience
Hey smeedia you should try the bcp x500+ or x500r in your new GD. Would love to here your review on that stock location turbo that uses the stock inlet size. It is journal bearing but would still love a review
I went with the Tomei ARMS M7960 for something a bit more unique, and i have no complaints. Sounds beautiful and zero shaftplay, looks bling af too, still have yet to see anyone else with one to compare.
I’ve been interested in that Turbo myself but I’ll probably go with the Cobb 20g since I’m in Ca and it’s Carb approved.
@@da9pauly yeah i don't think you can go wrong with that, by the look of it the cobb has slightly smaller turbine specs. Tomei has a pretty accurate chart to show rpm vs power band to give you an idea of the change you'll be getting on their website
Those tomei turbos do look 🔥
M8270 here and no issues
Perfect!! I’m currently looking at what turbo to buy for my new broke wrx….TD04..?..CARB..?..Cuz I live in the state that sucks!!!!…..Thanks!!!!
Dope content thank you 🔥
Thank you John 🙏
Always wondered about the difference. One quick comment. I work with some R&D guys at Borg Warner and they said for water cooled turbos unless you just absolutely beat on the car, it only needs to idle for 5-10 sec after you park before turning it off. Thermal syphoning keeps coolant moving through the turbo after the car is off and continues to pull heat from the turbo.
I belive this is how most OE set ups work as well
Knowledge matters. BBE going strong💪 thanks for the basics on the differences.
🤝🥳💪
Always good to know a little bit more about snails 🐌
Thank you for making the turbo video very informative 100k on the way.
🥳🥳🥳🥳
I have an 08 Legacy GT Spec.B with an FP blue Journal bearing with an ETS Fmic and the turbo lag is crazy compared to stock. I wish I would’ve got a bigger turbo then the FP blue but also ball bearing. I have to run 93 octane cuz there’s no E85 near me😢. 365hp on a mustang dyno. I was hoping for 400
When are you going to get the sti with that big ass turbo done? Can’t wait
Did you get the oil coaking butter analogy from Robert ? He said the exact same thing few years ago
I love my ball bearing Garret GTX, great response.
Fantastic turbos 🔥🔥🔥
Lucky for me, MHI (Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, who makes the stock turbo to the Type R) makes a stage 2 version thereby keeping it somewhat OEM
Oem+ 🔥
I love that I haven’t bought a skateboard in 10 years and bones Swiss are still the standard for high quality bearings
Bone Swiss is the only way
I was torn between vf30 and vf34. Bought vf34 hoping to get quicker boost 🤷♂️
Do you have any videos on EWG/IWG? reason I ask is because I have to run IWG due to not being able to get my ewg flange welded in time before I gotta tune. We don't have a shop so we have to wait until our tuner flys over lol
th-cam.com/video/l9Zy_yAnW20/w-d-xo.html
Hey I've had my 1993 subaru gc8 for about 2 years now and want to go with a ej257 and idk what to do for a harness and ecu
This will help since I need a new one
Just bought the turbo smart regulator for my build, did you run the return or plug it?
Cool video as always🤙🏼
Thank you 🔥🥳
thank you very much
Ball bearing turbo will spool faster supposedly, and if oiled correctly should be reliable and last forever as long as the oil isn’t contaminated. Or overheated
Good video but one more thing can you hold that turbo up one more time 😂
About threw out my back 🤣
Great info !!! Is there a standard for determining turbo size for engines?? And the difference between automatic and manual transmission applications?? I know most of it depends on how power you want to generate vs useable power band for when boost comes on…
Subarus like big turbos. move the power up higher in the power band. takes stress off the rods, pistons and headgaskets. Once the turbo lights up, it's good to go through the gears. I'm loving the big turbo on my car this year
@@woodzy575 better top end power too
Honestly depends on what your doing with the car, how much power you want
@@Smeedia thank you for all the info you give!!! You sharing your knowledge means so much to so many of us enthusiasts
Ngl, seeing you hold the 7675 up like that kinda scared me.
I just kept thinking to myself "don't drop it" 😂😂
Things heavy AF 😅
I had the same thought😁
Hi mate ,can i use a SCANIA truck turbo charger on my 3000gt twin turbo to a single turbo.
9:20 Don't listen to him... DO IT! DO IT DO IT DO IT!! 🤣
Isn't it the case if you spend a few minutes just cruising after a spirited run you're not gonna have to worry about coking? Rather than if you just got off a hot lap on the track and shut it right off
Cooling fins on the CHRA isn't really a good way of identify whether a turbo is ball-bearing or not. They aren't present on any small frame turbochargers. Maybe for big stuff like that Precision you have
Can you put a precision turbo in a stock location on an 18 sti
Outstanding information... Personally, I have a 9 Blade Billet Wheel/custom Ball Bearing VF48.. obviously its 'worked'.. but it spools about 1400 rpms... with full boost at 2k.. Made 367 to the wheels on my GD with a stock 257... Catted downpipe and TGV's... I love how soon it comes on.. Has alot of grunt down low. but also pulls all the way to redline :) just another configuration out of all the choices out there. :)
Who did the work on your turbo?
@@calebunrau9591 hillcountryforcedinductions can build a custom VF48 with up to a 20G Wheel. Love mine
I’m doing a custom build on my 14 wrx now that I have a second wrx lol. I’m working on a custom rotated kit with a holset hx30 turbo. I don’t know shit about this turbo but I do know they’ll make a lot of power on diesels. A lot of work hahahah
just bought a turbo last night THANK YOU, quick question how much front to back shaft play is normal? should there be none at all?
There might be a SMALL amount but shouldent be much at all
@@Smeedia yeah there is a little bit but not much at all. its a used turbo apparently with only about 500 miles on it
Are there any water-cooled BB turbos? Which one is better for dose and flutter (running no/delayed BOV)? I'm definitely running a street car application, but I want maximum response and an extra low boost threshold even on a medium to big-ish turbo. 2.5L to 3.5L displacement (haven't decided yet) 500-700whp.
Many BB turbos are water cooled like he said it prevents coking. And ball bearings are prone to coke build up if not cooled properly. That's usually why they have a oil restriction to not push as much oil into them because they can hydro plane then not turn and wear improperly. Where as JB turbos want all the oil its how they cool and lubricate. Which I'm sure is why he mentioned a turbo timer bc if not water cooled the turbo if shut down too soon has to much heat in the system and then it fries your bearing surfaces which causes coking. But your coolant system continues to work on convection even after you shut your car down which moves coolant through a turbo cartridge reducing/preventing that problem. Ball bearings sounds pretty in line with your setup but the displacement will factor your turbo choice/setup. My first consideration in a turbo setup is how much exhaust are you going to flow to power it or multiple? If running no bov I would highly recommend going speed density based tuning. Just to eliminate that problem of loss of unmetered air. Throwing off your o2 and thus fuel trims and power capacity.
speaking of turbos, think a grimmspeed BB500 turbo will be sufficient for my GV WRX? I'm looking at trying to end up with 450ish hp on ethanol with maybe a little room to grow. Not going to be going with a closed deck block more than likely just forged rods and pistons and a six speed to handle it. Going to be diving into it once I'm done refreshing the tired old EJ251 in my forester. With the wife getting a VB this month gotta make sure my car is faster lol!
Hey. I know this comment is old, but that BB500 turbo will do 500WHP on e85 with supporting mods such as fuel mods and some bolt ons.
Id do some headers, injectors, fuel pump, and a nice downpipe.
Let me know the results you get.
@@TMTFish still haven’t done any of this, trying to decide on whether or not I want to trade it on a VA STi or just full send the current car. If/when I do I’ll come back and comment lol.
Can’t wait to hear that Whrrrrrrr!
Sameeee 🔥
I know you’re not a fan of the FA20 but are there any good after market options for turbos for that engine? I haven’t found much when looking around on the interwebs
FP Blue for bolt on replacement by far, Boostlabs is another one I've heard good things about, if you want more of an extreme set up ETS Turbo kit is absolutely amazing at a hefty price but you can run Precision Turbo on your FA, and lemme tell you, it's worth every penny.
Socal v3/v4 upgrade. Forced proformance blue/ blue XR (ball bearing). TOMIOKA RACING TR GEN II GTX29 BALL BEARING TURBO. I would stay away from the Steam speed turbos for the fa20. I have the socal v3 lots of top end but you do lose a decent amount of spool. Most aftermarket are not twin scroll so you will lose even more spool if you don't go ball bearing.
FP Blue, Socal turbo or for bigger power I belive ETS Makes a kit
Dude can’t wait till you put some sound treatment up in that room lol.
Reverb is off the chain haha
Have some sound panels on the way 🤝
Great explanation. Do you have a brand that you prefer? I'm looking to install one on my 1989 CRX. What size is recommended for stock engines?
It’s a Honda crx being a 1.7 liter or less, figure out where you want the power. If your going for looks, hang a gt35 on it and keep it under 5 pounds you’ll be golden, for purpose driving get a gt25 or gt28 and run a external wastegate and make some good torque for actually driving. Sometimes the fastest car has the perfect sized turbo, for that application
You also said Honda. Hop on over to boosted boiz earlier stuff where they put 100 dollar eBay turbos on and make x power with it. Your questions will be answered
Or better yet call BRENT from PFI speed in Colorado, he will tell you exactly what turbo and why for your crx.
@user-nf3oq2ge3g I'll definitely check them out. My CRX has a K24A2 swap, though.
@@bobbydelamar606 well that changes things, go with a gt3076 minimum size you have 9k rpm so a gt35 would make it a beast but if you want a fast all around good driver get the gt3076 and a good external wastegate so you can utilize your torque and high rpm hp doesn’t suffer but after that set up if you want to experiment sealing to a gt35 is basically just a turbo size swap and all your exhaust and stuff should work. The tdo6 20g with 8cm exhaust housing would also be a good 400 hp match, but it’s more aimed at Subaru because it’s a stock location turbo barely fits but it is the perfectly matched turbo for Subaru 2.5 liter. The gt3071 is also a great turbo while you have 3k more rpm than me at least that’s why I recommended the gt3076 and you should be around 450 whp and the torque should be around 380 on a Honda I’d say. My Subaru makes 400 hp and 400 wheel torque with tdo6- 20g 8cm, But at 6,700 rpm it starts falling off, so I think for your Honda gt3076, plus being light as f… you might have trouble loading the gt35 making it a turd untill 6 k rpm which is terrible for daily driving,
Very Good Video but maybe do these kinda videos at a bench or something so you can have the Turbo/part in front of you. You're wearing me out just looking at you wear yourself out. Otherwise love your content. Keep up the good work
OK so what happens when I mill a turbo core and put ball bearings in there?
Also bb turbos can be pushing harder than the same turbo in a jb when your pushing them to the max
True, as long as your not overspining the turbo, other wise it'll be in a few pieces 😅
@Smeedia exactly, pretty spot on if a street car on pump you can't run high psi anyways so jb is fine and will hold up, I run a BBK lite for the past 7 years on 22psi evo 9, even fp doesn't recommend high boost on there jb green/red/black unless you go with bb
Does anyone run a vgt turbo on a gas setup?
So we both have FP reds, of course they are water cooled, but do you have to use the water? By choice and or testing purposes
If its there, I would use it 🤝
Well of course, I would to, but say it's blowing white out the tail would it be okay not to run water under testing and evaluations
So my 08 wrx has a td04, which I know is a journal bearing, I want to swap in a vf52. Is that a ball bearing or journal bearing?
Journal bearing
I would love to know what the numbers on turbos mean. I am kind new to this stuff still so when someone says 6870 or 6262 or something I have no idea what that means. Thanks!
Typically it will be the turbine size on the compressor side and the exducer side of the turbo 🙏
I went with vf48 hf and cerakoted it sig pink
Yasssss 🔥🔥🔥🔥
So basically get a water cooled ball bearing turbo and have the best of both worlds! That’s exactly why I went with my Garrett turbo on my rotated street setup! Almost 100k bro let’s goooooo!!!! 🔥
Garrett's are fantastic turbos, just very spendy 😅
@@Smeedia yeah that ain’t no shit! I could have bought two 6466’s for the price of my GTX3582R gen 2 😭😭😭
almost 100k!
Getting there 🥳🥳🥳
😂 I Like this guy. Literally explained all the details in a lame man's term. Good job!
Very very cool!!😎👍🏻👍🏻
🤝🤝🤝🤝
WOW 👍🏆💥 you are the Turbo man Yes 🏁
i can respect the bones swiss, i myself am a bronson man
I learned something new.
🤝🙏🤝
Tanners knowledge + divorced 7675 = tanners your divorce expert
Come in for a free consultation
I’ve had experience with most FA20 turbos and can tell you that unfortunately FP blues have dropped the quality check on theirs and will only recommend Boostlab or SoCal v4 upgrade
I just want an extra set of tires so I can be somewhat competitive at the track loo
Snag then tires 👀👀👀
I am in no way trying to be an a$$#0!Le or sound condescending but I don't think all BB turbos have cooling fins.
I personally have a Garrett GTX2860 Gen II *dual ball bearing* turbo and it doesn't have cooling fins so it may not be very accurate. 😕
Perhaps the fins are only for turbos that aren't water cooled. 🤔
Love your channel ❤
Not 100% sure wirh Garrett's, they always too expensive for me so they may not have it. Most Garretson also use coolant so the chra design may be diffrent
Garrett is a durable product and that what is important to me
Garrett makes some awesome turbos, they definitely $$$ though
What about 18g, 20g what do these refer too?
I am more than likely vary wrong but the G traditional came from them being Mitsubishi produced turbos
I guess your heads a little bit bigger. The knowledge to hourse power ratio is off the charts!!
Learning everyday!
Ball bearings spool 15% quicker on average, you're saying you see that to be about 5 to 700 rpm on these cars more or less? That seems very significant
Edit / WARNING LONG POST.. due to voice texting!!!!!! SORRY!!
You’re not a fan of turbo timers??!😳🤷🏼♂️… really?
Ahh well , you just said track use..
I am more of a have fun on the street type of guy while running errands ! 😂..
In Time is money ! Especially when supra= celebrity vibes.. it’s extremely easy to get very very delayed and be late if you’re driving around in your MK4 supra …
stopping here and there , all around the square.. saying catch me if you can!..😂
Sometimes I really feel like being a jerk and just ripping away! Lol when I first got it, it was kind of cool the first couple days! And tell my family well if you ever want to feel what a celebrity feels like when they drive around or whatever, come for a ride with me😂..
But man is it getting annoying !! This is like my dream car, my ultimate favorite car, so I’m really trying to just bond with it , and drive around and get as as often as it’s nice out really! I have even been trying to like hide if I just want to chill in my cockpit and do whatever post on social media shopping on online stores. And these guys come out of nowhere. Couple kids on bicycles said we heard the car and saw it pulling into this parking lot so we got on our bicycles and literally rode as fast as we could.
Last night I took my old friend. I haven’t seen in a while out for a drive to catch up. This was funny because I was driving to an O’Reillys parking lot because they were closed and I parked in between the line of like shop vehicles they had there. Do you know I’m trying to blend in a bit. Lol and I was literally telling my buddy about what happens.. And then he goes? Oh, who’s this!?? And I must not have been paying attention because we were having good conversations because this dude was like 10 feet away from my window walking towards me!
So I was trying to tell myself to just calm down. Don’t get too upset. Be nice to the guy treat every person like they’re a new person..which they are. 😂
Talk quick I answer his questions I get back in my car, he gets back in his car with his friend and they are literally 15 feet from me, facing directly at me, just waiting🤷🏼♂️. Continued talking and having a couple drinks..
I would keep looking back and I was like what’s the deal with this guy? Why isn’t he leaving??
Finally, I got frustrated enough and just say let’s go somewhere else! Start the car back up and the guys trying to talk to me again plus record me .
But off to a different hiding spot I wen
What I was trying to say is, I am not the greatest as it is with arriving on time or even a little before. Then add in the random people wanting to have conversations and sometimes you can get three different people in one spot!
So a turbo timer would really come in handy ! Literally just pulled into a parking lot. Shut the car off hop out real quick and run inside. Then it’s off to the next stop!
I couldn’t imagine sitting in my car for ..🤔 .. hmm well now that I remember when I used those on my DSM’s we are back in the day. A lot of times you would just need to idle for 30 seconds or so not like a few minutes like I assumed .. it’s been a while.
Or is is 1-3min on average after a pull 1-3rd!?
I even let my diesel truck turbo cool down after I pull over after a long hard pull
We don't wanna cook any oil 🤝
We need a twin turbo cannon.
Twin cannons you say?!
Early gang gang! Ball bearing is the way toooooo!!!
Ball bearing is a solid choice, ain't nothing wrong with some JB action though!
Cooking fins are not a correct identifier , maybe for percission but other brand , NO
For PTE at least, will vary from vendor to vendor. I don't use Bob wagners or Garrett so minimal experience with them
8:58 what do you mean by that 😳😎