Journal bearings allow and endure higher rpms. Ball bearing has less wear on startup when no oil pressure is present. Journal is better for vehicles that have a continuous load on the engine, ball bearings are better at spooling. Both Journal and ball bearing will degrade quickly if contaminants are present in the oil, though a ball bearing will last longer as it has less oil applied to it and the oil is mostly for cooling of the bearing. The engine will use the same amount of power through the oil pump regardless of ball bearing or journal. A ball bearing turbo will just see more oil pass through the pressure relief valve instead of flowing through the CHRA.
>the oil is mostly for cooling of the bearing wrong. oil is vital for ball bearing lubrication and fiction reduction at high rpm. a ball bearing still has friction as the inner race is smaller than the outer race, so the ball bearing will still experience metal on metal friction, not just rolling, due to the different lengths the ball has to travel on the inner and outer race. A constant, pressurized oil film being present at 100k+ rpm is vital, or they go out just as quickly as a journal bearings.
@@em4703 The balls do not slip as they roll on the inner and outer races at the same rate. Think of it as a planetary gear set. The ball bearings in a turbo are not under pressure, the oil is more or less dribble fed on the bearing for cooling. Think of a ball bearing having to spin through a pool of oil at 200k+ rpm, it would drastically slow it down. Have a nice day.
Journal shaft turbo is just a turbo without dual ball bearings! Less superior. Lets look at this would you ride a bicycle with no bearings this is a recipe for disaster. Hands down ball bearings is the greater turbo and will last longer. Broke ass companies make turbos with no bearings.! Hence they didnt have to buy the bearings that would make the shaft last longer!
Wow, this channel just crossed into my home page. Never knew it was existed before, your contents are very great and very easy to understand. I was shocked about the last scene and found out that you’re from Indonesia. Keep up the good work and wishing you tons of success! Cheers from fellow Indonesians
For someone interested in sound and would do a lot of compressor surge, the ball bearing would be ideal due to having a thrust bearing? I hear as long as you have a good turbo with a beefy thrust bearing, it can handle compressor surge which makes that lovely turbo sound when air forced back to turbo. Please confirm and best 'valued' turbo that can handle this.
I upgraded from a journal bearing to a turbo bearing turbo. By finger pressure I could spin the journal bearing turbo faster with less effort. The ball bearing turbo felt like it had grease in it. Maybe this changes once some engine oil is flowing through it. ?
Excellent video thank you. Do you have any videos on electric turbos from f1 I would love to use them in drag racing. Also any videos on free valve or electric intake valves. You broke the info down so well and made it really easy to understand I watched it twice thank you again
the one thing i want to know which I can't find anywhere around is if there's a sound difference between them, i want to get a Peterbilt type spool at low rpm on a car
Any idea where I can get a full ceramic bearing set to fit directly into the BMW N54 center core on the twin turbos and better yet if you are aware of angular ceramic bearings which I'm just assuming would handle bigger axial load. Because they use angular bearings on CNC machine tools to handle heavy axial loads on the servo drives and ball and nut due to the axis moving at high speed and heavy loads or do ceramic bearings purely come in a ball bearing design ?
Great video, thank you JC Media. Is it worth upgrading a stock diesel to a ball bearing turbo if you have no intention of using it for racing. I.e. if I just want that improvement in response and durability for everyday driving under normal conditions, is it worth upgrading?
All good? Can you point me to online stores that sell turbochargers? I am in need of a core (bearing core) to improve my turbo. I live in Brazil and I need to buy online in the US.
@@JCMediaYT It's a Hyundai HB20 tgdi,which already comes with a turbocharged engine of 120 horsepower in the three-cylinder engine and one liter. I want an aftermarket turbo. I think this car is manufactured only for Brazil. But his engine is the Kappa, the same as the Hyundai Creta tgdi. My problem is the exhaust manifold, because the joint that connects to the engine block is unique, a weird 5-hole one. The other problem is that this collector is attached together with the hot box (turbine housing). Anyway, here in Brazil there is a workshop specialized in modifying internal turbo parts, so I wanted to see if I could find an internal core with ball bearings, maybe ceramic ones, to improve my turbo. As I live in an isolated city, it is difficult for me to have some flange type adapter manufactured, to be able to connect the output of my block with the T2 input of the turbine housing of aftermarket turbos. That's why I need interior parts, including because it will be cheaper too. But maybe buying directly from the US, with my sister bringing it, maybe a good price for a complete turbine.
4:32 "Ball Bearings are constantly in contact" Ball bearings are not in contact with any metal part during proper operation, there's an oil film that at high rpm becomes like a wave in front of the ball, being forced under it and its race at high pressure, making the bearing float on oil.
This is incorrect, and part of the reason that a restrictor is used on ball bearing turbos to limit the amount of oil that enters the bearing. Where did you learn that ball bearings are not in contact with any metal components during operation?
@@chippyjohn1 It is very correct. Will metal to metal contact happen at certain times? Yes, sometimes, that's when wear happens, and why I said proper operation/high rpm. But 99.9% times of its lifetime it doesn't happen, start time or shut off is when most of the wear happens with these devices, ball bearing turbo or journal bearing. The restrictor in oil pressure in the ball bearing turbo exists because ball bearings don't need high pressure oil, unless you want that that in your intake. Any more questions?
Generally, brass or another copper alloy is preferred for journal bearing, as it is softer than the steel/aluminum shaft/housing. If contact does happen, the bearing will wear away instead of the shaft or housing, allowing for a bearing replacement and shaft polish if you catch the worn bearing early enough. This is why as soon as you get some shaft play, you need to get the turbo rebuilt. Ball bearings generally use a ceramic material in turbos (steel in lower rotational speed applications) due to its incredible hardness and ability to withstand heat. The housing is made of steel.
Any bearing that reduces friction will help. Ball bearings will always be better than a journal. But being stupid proof than the journal bearing is for you. Just slap it on and go. Ball bearing figure out the perfect amount of oil to feed it or it will die. Too little, and too much oil are killers.
Great video. I think most Airline Jet engines use Ball Bearing in their jet engines. Journal bearings could be less reliable if the oil pump fails or the oil passages clog up and such. There is a reason why wheel bearings are almost always ball bearings.
Wheel bearings use ball bearings because there is no economical and effective way to pump fluid into a hydrodynamic bearing that large. They all come packed with grease. Turbo shafts spin so fast that starving a ball bearing or journal bearing turbo of oil will quickly kill it.
@@aftastosk6016 suppose your up against pro charged cars that have instant spool and put 3 cars on you at the hit,,but both run same MPH at the stripe?
This is pure nonsense and a completely misconception. Dynamic pressure bearings can withstand higher rotational speeds with almost no wear Ball bearings are disadvantageous in both respects It is pure nonsense to say that dynamic pressure bearings have greater turbo lag! I highly suspect that the supercharger manufacturer of rolling bearings paid for this program channel.
@@JCMediaYT you said wrong, i also can tell many top one use dynamic pressure bearing. ball bearing are cheap and easy to make and design.they just sell expensive that's it. not because good, because they sell less.
@@GearTiger007 ball bearings are cheap? what? I'm literally saying this from real-life experience having tried many different setups, ball bearings spool better than journal bearings, and they are more expensive. Just look at the plethora of information online.
@@JCMediaYT you just know the price of sell, and i know the real cost of how much for made ball bearing.journal bearing in any way much better than balls.we are factory make all of those bearing, i perfect know it deeply. i think you are not professional in machine zone, if you keep say such unprofessional opinion, just your subscriber will lost. honest,i don't want to quarrel with you in such simply basic knowledge.
@@GearTiger007 My opinions are based off of real-life test data from myself and many others. Just because you work with the manufacturing aspect and know the costs doesn't necessarily mean you understand how it translates to IRL performance when actually used on engines. The broken English tells me enough.
Journal bearings allow and endure higher rpms. Ball bearing has less wear on startup when no oil pressure is present. Journal is better for vehicles that have a continuous load on the engine, ball bearings are better at spooling. Both Journal and ball bearing will degrade quickly if contaminants are present in the oil, though a ball bearing will last longer as it has less oil applied to it and the oil is mostly for cooling of the bearing. The engine will use the same amount of power through the oil pump regardless of ball bearing or journal. A ball bearing turbo will just see more oil pass through the pressure relief valve instead of flowing through the CHRA.
>the oil is mostly for cooling of the bearing
wrong. oil is vital for ball bearing lubrication and fiction reduction at high rpm. a ball bearing still has friction as the inner race is smaller than the outer race, so the ball bearing will still experience metal on metal friction, not just rolling, due to the different lengths the ball has to travel on the inner and outer race. A constant, pressurized oil film being present at 100k+ rpm is vital, or they go out just as quickly as a journal bearings.
@@em4703 The balls do not slip as they roll on the inner and outer races at the same rate. Think of it as a planetary gear set. The ball bearings in a turbo are not under pressure, the oil is more or less dribble fed on the bearing for cooling. Think of a ball bearing having to spin through a pool of oil at 200k+ rpm, it would drastically slow it down. Have a nice day.
Dude you have no idea
@@sheriffboom4311 What are you referring to?
Journal shaft turbo is just a turbo without dual ball bearings! Less superior. Lets look at this would you ride a bicycle with no bearings this is a recipe for disaster. Hands down ball bearings is the greater turbo and will last longer. Broke ass companies make turbos with no bearings.! Hence they didnt have to buy the bearings that would make the shaft last longer!
Exactly what I needed thank You so basically
Ball bearing=for more performance
Journal bearing=longevity
Glad it helped!
Wow, this channel just crossed into my home page. Never knew it was existed before, your contents are very great and very easy to understand. I was shocked about the last scene and found out that you’re from Indonesia. Keep up the good work and wishing you tons of success! Cheers from fellow Indonesians
I'm doing a presentation on Turbos on Monday. Your vid helped me understand the different bearings easily. Thank you so much.
For someone interested in sound and would do a lot of compressor surge, the ball bearing would be ideal due to having a thrust bearing? I hear as long as you have a good turbo with a beefy thrust bearing, it can handle compressor surge which makes that lovely turbo sound when air forced back to turbo. Please confirm and best 'valued' turbo that can handle this.
yup, ball bearings would be better because they can handle the thrust and radial loads better than journal bearings
I upgraded from a journal bearing to a turbo bearing turbo. By finger pressure I could spin the journal bearing turbo faster with less effort. The ball bearing turbo felt like it had grease in it. Maybe this changes once some engine oil is flowing through it. ?
Very informative. THANKING YOU. Robbbert from Melbourne Australia.
Excellent video thank you. Do you have any videos on electric turbos from f1 I would love to use them in drag racing. Also any videos on free valve or electric intake valves. You broke the info down so well and made it really easy to understand I watched it twice thank you again
not as of yet but that could definitely be a future video idea. Thanks for the feedback, appreciate it!
the one thing i want to know which I can't find anywhere around is if there's a sound difference between them, i want to get a Peterbilt type spool at low rpm on a car
Any idea where I can get a full ceramic bearing set to fit directly into the BMW N54 center core on the twin turbos and better yet if you are aware of angular ceramic bearings which I'm just assuming would handle bigger axial load. Because they use angular bearings on CNC machine tools to handle heavy axial loads on the servo drives and ball and nut due to the axis moving at high speed and heavy loads or do ceramic bearings purely come in a ball bearing design ?
Great video, thank you JC Media. Is it worth upgrading a stock diesel to a ball bearing turbo if you have no intention of using it for racing. I.e. if I just want that improvement in response and durability for everyday driving under normal conditions, is it worth upgrading?
Great video just ordered fp green ball bearing for my built 2.2l Mitsubishi evo 8
oh thats cool, hope you enjoy it haha! must be fun
All good? Can you point me to online stores that sell turbochargers? I am in need of a core (bearing core) to improve my turbo. I live in Brazil and I need to buy online in the US.
sure, what car is it off of? or is it an aftermarket turbo?
@@JCMediaYT It's a Hyundai HB20 tgdi,which already comes with a turbocharged engine of 120 horsepower in the three-cylinder engine and one liter. I want an aftermarket turbo. I think this car is manufactured only for Brazil. But his engine is the Kappa, the same as the Hyundai Creta tgdi. My problem is the exhaust manifold, because the joint that connects to the engine block is unique, a weird 5-hole one. The other problem is that this collector is attached together with the hot box (turbine housing). Anyway, here in Brazil there is a workshop specialized in modifying internal turbo parts, so I wanted to see if I could find an internal core with ball bearings, maybe ceramic ones, to improve my turbo. As I live in an isolated city, it is difficult for me to have some flange type adapter manufactured, to be able to connect the output of my block with the T2 input of the turbine housing of aftermarket turbos. That's why I need interior parts, including because it will be cheaper too. But maybe buying directly from the US, with my sister bringing it, maybe a good price for a complete turbine.
4:32 "Ball Bearings are constantly in contact"
Ball bearings are not in contact with any metal part during proper operation, there's an oil film that at high rpm becomes like a wave in front of the ball, being forced under it and its race at high pressure, making the bearing float on oil.
This is incorrect, and part of the reason that a restrictor is used on ball bearing turbos to limit the amount of oil that enters the bearing. Where did you learn that ball bearings are not in contact with any metal components during operation?
@@chippyjohn1 It is very correct. Will metal to metal contact happen at certain times? Yes, sometimes, that's when wear happens, and why I said proper operation/high rpm. But 99.9% times of its lifetime it doesn't happen, start time or shut off is when most of the wear happens with these devices, ball bearing turbo or journal bearing.
The restrictor in oil pressure in the ball bearing turbo exists because ball bearings don't need high pressure oil, unless you want that that in your intake. Any more questions?
@@em4703 I think you are confusing hydrodynamic bearings with roller bearings!
Wouldn't the same apply for any bearing? That's why there is oil clearance not press fit.
What is the most common metal used for the manufacture ball and Journal bearing? or both comes in copper?
Generally, brass or another copper alloy is preferred for journal bearing, as it is softer than the steel/aluminum shaft/housing. If contact does happen, the bearing will wear away instead of the shaft or housing, allowing for a bearing replacement and shaft polish if you catch the worn bearing early enough. This is why as soon as you get some shaft play, you need to get the turbo rebuilt.
Ball bearings generally use a ceramic material in turbos (steel in lower rotational speed applications) due to its incredible hardness and ability to withstand heat. The housing is made of steel.
good information.
hello thankyou im from Indonesia
thank you! saya juga dari indo kok mas hehe
What would u prefer I currently have a f80 m3 and wanna go hybrid turbos I have 2 options ball bearing or none ball bearing
I'd go for pure turbos, I'm not sure which bearing type they have but I think those are some of the best options for hybrid turbos on the M3.
Thanks for the info. Think I will go with the journal bearing turbocharger and save a few dollars.
You're welcome, glad I could help with that!
I'm from java Indonesia Thank master , I want to try in my job, I think like that, but I haven't been able to find the right bearing
Nice
Any bearing that reduces friction will help. Ball bearings will always be better than a journal. But being stupid proof than the journal bearing is for you. Just slap it on and go. Ball bearing figure out the perfect amount of oil to feed it or it will die. Too little, and too much oil are killers.
Great video. I think most Airline Jet engines use Ball Bearing in their jet engines. Journal bearings could be less reliable if the oil pump fails or the oil passages clog up and such. There is a reason why wheel bearings are almost always ball bearings.
hmm I think Airline Jet engines use jet engines in their jet engines...
@@Cautela😂
Wheel bearings use ball bearings because there is no economical and effective way to pump fluid into a hydrodynamic bearing that large. They all come packed with grease. Turbo shafts spin so fast that starving a ball bearing or journal bearing turbo of oil will quickly kill it.
Journal bearing for me and upgrade the wheel for quicker spool up sure why not.
Why journal bearing thou, i wanna get on the dual bb wagon lol
thank you :)
You're welcome!
It's more like a Garrett commercial, in reality in most of the cases journal bearing is the best option.
most cases?
@@brianmathew09 yes indeed in most cases
@@aftastosk6016 suppose your up against pro charged cars that have instant spool and put 3 cars on you at the hit,,but both run same MPH at the stripe?
@@brianmathew09 I am not a fan of superchargers but I don't have drag stripe in mind, which is a specific situation
Very informative video, ty man
thanks! glad you liked it
Ball bearing 😏🤙🙌
BB hands down for quicker spool up.
Journal is the correct answer
Journal aja deh daily 😂😂😂
😂😂
Thus just go buy a cheap e bay ball bearing turbo and do some burn outs.
full sends only!
So…..JB turbos ..
If you have the money ball bearing. Boost lag is lame lol
That is the worst subscriber ratio I’ve ever seen jeez 99% non subscribers
thats what happens when a bunch of your old shitty videos suddenly blows up I guess...
This is pure nonsense and a completely misconception.
Dynamic pressure bearings can withstand higher rotational speeds with almost no wear
Ball bearings are disadvantageous in both respects
It is pure nonsense to say that dynamic pressure bearings have greater turbo lag!
I highly suspect that the supercharger manufacturer of rolling bearings paid for this program channel.
lmaoooo, if that were the case then tell me why all turbos at the top end use dual ball bearing cartridges. no paid promotion here lol
@@JCMediaYT you said wrong, i also can tell many top one use dynamic pressure bearing. ball bearing are cheap and easy to make and design.they just sell expensive that's it. not because good, because they sell less.
@@GearTiger007 ball bearings are cheap? what? I'm literally saying this from real-life experience having tried many different setups, ball bearings spool better than journal bearings, and they are more expensive. Just look at the plethora of information online.
@@JCMediaYT you just know the price of sell, and i know the real cost of how much for made ball bearing.journal bearing in any way much better than balls.we are factory make all of those bearing, i perfect know it deeply. i think you are not professional in machine zone, if you keep say such unprofessional opinion, just your subscriber will lost. honest,i don't want to quarrel with you in such simply basic knowledge.
@@GearTiger007 My opinions are based off of real-life test data from myself and many others. Just because you work with the manufacturing aspect and know the costs doesn't necessarily mean you understand how it translates to IRL performance when actually used on engines. The broken English tells me enough.
Accent rough
lol, English isn't my 1st language 🤷🏻♂️
@@JCMediaYT oh.... I thought you were American
lol nope, I'm actually all the way from Indonesia