This is unrelated but when I saw 2 youtubers blew off being served by Michelin star chefs I kind of wanted to scream at the screen. Getting to sit at a chefs table of a world class chef is a rare and unique opportunity that most people will never experience. The idea of dismissing something so rare I just can't imagine. I guess it's not for everyone but others of us pay north of $500 a person for something like that.
They were influences, not all car guys. I suggest you listen to the smoking tire podcast, Matt Farah talked for about 15 minutes about the event and the tires.TLDR; he said there's no difference with the car he drove.
This aramid - nylon belt is actually produced in Emmen. A small city in the Netherlands, happens to be my hometown. Great to see this tire is loved all over the world. Great video, keep up the good work!
I use Pilot Sport 4 on my daily driver and I’m blown away at the levels of grip that can be achieved by a quiet, comfortable, well behaved tyre. I can’t begin to imagine what the 4S must be like
Nicely done Jason. We should have had you teaching that session. Next year, let do it. Great meeting you at the event. The tire is honestly great! Thanks #MichelinUSA
+MarKassiN actually no.If you read tyre test, you will see that every year there is a different manufacturer on top.This year is Michelin, next year maybe Pirelli or Continental or GY... will have the top tire.
his conclusions might be biased. But Michellin has been leading the charge for a long time now, also the raw stats proove his points. People, who dislike product placement, tend to forget, how good it can be, if noone is fooled...
Satwik Basu It really doesn't matter at all. My guess is what has people annoyed is the idea that this video was basically a commercial for Michelin Pilot Sport 4 tires. Usually Engineering Explained videos entail things like what not to do in a CVT or how AWD works. This video was far from the usual format. I know I personally hate commercials and see enough of them everywhere else. I'm not going to waste time complaining I'd rather just unsubscribe.
It's sponsored in the right way. Michelin brought in pretty much everybody on TH-cam car media, and made a very public event. No "behind the doors" stuff.
I am so glad that someone from the youtube community actually talked about the tyres! Thank you.. Yes the cars were cool but it's nice to hear about the tyres and how the reacted in real world circumstances.. These are on my list for sure..
Seriously. When I first learned to drive and used to try to drive fast in the hills where we lived. My Dad, he said to me, Always have respect for your machine. Dont unnecessarily push it to the limits. Remember all that is between you and the ground is a bit of rubber and some air. So make sure your tyres are always in top condition and with the proper pressure in them. And properly balanced and aligned as well. Look after these essentials and keep looking for sidewall cracks and other such. A tyre, like anything else, deteriorates over time. So it is sensible to change them as they age and become harder and less pliable even though they may not have run all that many kilometers. The last thing you want is a blowout at speed!
you sold me on the STi watching your video i purchased an STi in HYPER BLUE 1 OF 700..... 11K MILES of very aggresive driving wore out the stock Dunlop Sport Maxx out ------ in the front mostly at The Tail of the Dragon Just orders these tires on 4/12/2018 my brother has the super sports and loves them, can't wait just this morning ordered a set of Michelin Pilot Sport 4s Thank you my friend absolutely enjoy your videos
Best coverage of this event so far. It's amazing how much optimisation is still possible. Would've been interesting if they had included the previous version of the tyre in the data/tests as well.
Thank you!! They did include some data comparisons versus the previous tire at the event - though I don't recall all of the numbers. I think the dry lap time improvement was 0.16 seconds, which doesn't sound like too much, but in racing that's a huge lap advantage. Edit: They also mentioned a 7% improvement in the wet braking.
Also Michelin has an incredible business model. I've never seen so much hype over a tire, good for them and their marketing team. And they actually put up good numbers behind their marketing, so few companies do that. Massive respect for them as of now, and they set a good example for others to follow.
You can put your ad at the rear to avoid negativity. - One thing you did not mention is Ps4S higher mileage and a lower cost than the sticky PSScup2 as found on Corvette Zo6.
Engineering Explained great video btw. Although I have two questions. Are the new Michelin pilot sport 4 s tires faster in the dry than the old super sport? I couldn't find any comparison on michelins website to confirm or deny this. And is the new bi-compound construction now 40% dry grip oriented compared to the old ss which was only 20% dry oriented. And what I'm referring to is only the outer 1/5 of tread blocks was a dry compound on the ss and judging by your video the ps4s the outer 2/5 is dry compound. Thank you so much again for your videos.
Really? ever review where someone actually drove their car hard with a set of summer tires according to tire rack says no max or extreme performance summer tire will last and pss' get eaten by camber wear.
teh vee teh vee Yep, really. And these aren't track tires; they're performance daily driver tires. And I drive/setup for performance, not stance. Maybe the stance guys should choose another tire; I don't know. I've never heard of that issue. But, like I said, my car isn't setup for "looks" but functionality.
Numinous a couple of degrees of camber is not stance. Any and every performance vehicle has negative camber dialed in ,where passenger cars run a little bit of positive camber. A couple degrees of camber isn't 'stance' and many manufacturers require 2-3 degrees of negative camber for the best performance, eg Toyo r888's. Judging on your review , I doubt you drive your tires hard man and not having the numerical data to back up the tires longevity claim doesn't help your opinion or answering my question. The majority of people in those reviews lied to themselves, hence why I am asking you! Because Michelin's 30k warranty doesn't apply to cars with any camber, so the people hyper miling these tires aren't even putting them to work.
teh vee teh vee I've had no issues and run a performance level of camber. And my tires definitely get worked, from both canyon carving and the 385/380 @ the wheels that I put down in my Speed 3. -3 degrees on a standard car is completely excessive. I'd like to see a manufacturer's spec on a "normal" car that calls for -3 degrees camber, LOL. That's actually beyond a performance-DD setting of camber, according to the race shop that does my alignements and does tracking events/track support virtually every single weekend of the year. I wonder if you realize that toe settings can have a major impact on excessive edge wear? Like I said, I've loved my PSSes and have many buddies who have run them too. Not a single one had the issue you mentioned. And we drive our cars like we stole them.
I am on my second set of super sports now. First set was trashed after 16k miles. I had -3 degrees of camber. Will probably not go with super sports in the future.
Well that's something, at least. Hopefully whoever was in charge of that task performed it accurately and didn't get lazy. Tire pressure makes such a difference in performance vehicles.
2 Questions. 1. If the tire is a split compound where the inner half is more for wet conditions, and the outter is more for dry and aggressive conditions, would that make the tire unevenly wear out across the width if the two conditions were not driven equally? For example. Say the tire is mounted on a car like a Charger Hellcat or a Corvette. A vehicle that can be driven as both a daily driving car or a powerful sports car. If the owner of such a car mostly drives normal everyday, and rarely "gets on it", would that mean the inner section if the tire would wear out faster then the outter section due to different make up? 2. Would that also create a weak spot in the tire itself where the two compounds meet? Or did they take all that into consideration?
You just saved me a lot of time and research effort. Thanks! When I got my 350Z about 3.5 years ago I put Super Sports on it for the summer, and something else in the winter, and got over 50,000 km out of them. After this winter season is over I'm going to need new summer tires, and I haven't had time yet to research whether or not their new tire was actually better. I'm very glad to see it is, otherwise I would've been in the dark as to what to buy. The Super Sports were great! Never been more happy with a tire than I was with them. Looking forward to the new tires. I wish they had put the Super Sport in all the same tests just so we could see what the difference was.
+Engineering Explained Just got the Michelin PS4S for summer tyres here in Sweden to my SEAT Leon Cupra MK3 (Stage 1). Many thanks for the video, superb and technical review as always. That was my main reason for ordering them ;)!
Hey Jason, can you give some info about wheel sizes, please? I wonder when will wheel size increment stop? Is there a limit? What is the best wheel size. Does the body geometry decides the optimal wheel size? When will production passenger vehicles (not SUVs) have 20+ tires? Why did manufactures start making cars with 14-" wheels back in the stone age? Why are now 18" and 19" tires in the market? I'm confused and curious. Can you give me some history and math about this topic?
I run pilot super sport tires and love them to death night and day compared to my stock tires. I can't wait to purchase these successor. oh I drive a 13 Civic Si lol
Great explanation of PS4S technology, but by inside and outside are you referring to the car, or the turn? If the latter, the effect seems specific to the outside of the tire on the OUTSIDE of a turn. Wouldn't the opposite occur on the outside of the tire on the INSIDE of the turn, thus deriving no benefit from the dual compound technology? I know there is centrifugal weight transfer during cornering, but is the outside tire so much more important in turns, that the opposite effect on the inside tire can be discounted? In a very flat, low slung car the inside tire still carries a lot of load, so the effect should be bi-directional, I think.
I just got the Super Sports on 04 Mach 1. I replaced the standard Eagle tire that I never loved. Whoa. The difference was astounding. Road noise dropped. (I realize a worn out tire will always be louder than fresh rubber.) Grip and drive ability skyrocketed. The Goodyears lasted a long time but that was the only great thing about them. The SS's grab and bite hard when pushed. If I go to kick the rear end out, I love how predictable every moment feels with all that grip waiting to grab again. I don't need or want to add to the stigmata of mustang drivers.
Engineering Explained Please do a video about the new all weather tires with the 3PMSF severe weather certification such as Michelin CrossClimate and Vredestein Quatrac.
These are incredible tires. I have them on all my vehicles. A little pricey but a better value than anything else out there when you consider the performance and the life of the tire.
PSS came on my V60 Polestar and they are great tires. They can be a little noisy but the grip is unreal. I can't wait to try the 4s and I hope noise levels are better
Exceptional review. About to start road racing and this review has given me a unique insight into the science vs the hype. Will purchase these tires or the cup 2 for my 66’ Mustang Restomod.
hey man, so no lie i just spent about 3 hours looking at your older videos and i came across the "reading mean comments" one and i gotta say... you should totally do that again 😂 and bring back the dino suit!
Hello, Great video !! question.. I just bought these and the way they are fitted is like this.. Right Side (looking from Behind) --||||/// --||||/// --||||/// Left Side (looking from Behind) ///||||-- ///||||-- ///||||-- i.e. the grooves on the outside slant outwards at different angles... really weird how Michelin do this,, you would think they would make LEft and Right Tyres, and not just one variation..
I've kind of just stuck with Falken 615 tires going on 10 years. never let me down and while another tire might do better in one area it doesn't just kill the Falkens.
Yeah. took 3 days to get in from discount tire. They had a hard time getting them though. Havent been able to really test them yet. live in Ohio :/ been pretty cold. Good luck friend!
Which tires are best for Los Angeles roads in your opinion . I just bought a used 2016 corvette stingray convertible with no z51 package. I have magnetic suspension and it is very comfortable. Even with these OEM RFT super sports its still extremely comfortable compared to others. I am only looking at Michelin tires and still do not know which to choose. ZP, 4s, ps2, or maybe the all season tires. I am not going on the track or driving in the rain. Comport is the most important and I guess performance is a little less important. Which one would you recommend and how much more comfortable are they from the RFT super sports that I am driving on right know? I am also open to other brands if they are better. Thank you
2 track days on my michelin ps4 plus street driving (smaller size ps4s for 17" wheels on s2000 ) Amazing tires. On street and on track, they're no slicks.. but amazing as you see on my videos No drama on the track
Engineering Explained Thanks man! car is full bolt ons. 420 hp and 580nm on 98 pump fuel(belgium) And some other sweet suspension bits. Your vids are awesome!
Marco Minervini Front is 225/40/r18 and back is 245/35/r18. going 255 in the back with apex arc8 wheels. Cause lack of grips due to the power of the car
What sort of feedback do these tires give at the limit before traction loss? Is it progressive with ample warning or a sudden drop? Just curious because that's a pretty important thing to be aware of when buying tires for my style of driving. I like to have signs of a limit rather than going over without knowing.
I imagine they won't be avaible for smaller dimensions, probably 18''+.. I was purchasing tires for my BMW e21 and Michelin Pilot Sport 3 was probably the best tyre to have in the 15'' department (for road use - no semislicks). As a light car with no ABS I must say that there is a massive difference between good tire and a bad tire, it just sucks that they are cutting down the dimension options for us, that don't roll a huge wheel... Great content, thank you for the video!
Fascinating technology. It is amazing how closely street tires of today rival the performance of past race tires. Shame these tires only come in 18" and up rim diameters. If they made lightweight 15" sizes, they'd be very very attractive autocross tires.
I struggle to find the best possible 19-20 inch Summer tyres for my BMW 535i xDrive 2012. What I am absolutely sure is though, I do not want any RFT! There are 3 tyres in which I am interested (All w/o RFT) : PSS (*), PS4s (w/o *), Conti SC6 (w/o *) The only "Star-Tyre" without RFT is the Michelin Pilot Super sport. Do you recommend buying older-generation tyres WITH * or newer Generation WITHOUT * ??? Thank you
I have a questioning for you that has been eating my mind. So turbo flutter, is created when the blow off valve is blocked off and causes air to... well go back. How much does the effect the life span of the turbo? I am reading that it does reduce the life span of the turbo over time.
Interresting. I run Bridgestone tires on my performance bike for several years in a row now and they stick like hell, especially when heated up by challenging bike and tires (??). On my TVR Tuscan I run economic Toyo Proxess tires. Since the have a short lifespan on that car, I´m happy with them, too.
I had the regular PSS on my GTI. My only gripe with those tires were that they worn down VERY quick, 17k miles of just regular driving (no autox, no track, no drag) they were almost done. Hopefully these last much longer.
Hypothetically, in relation to having the "wet" pattern on the inside, shouldn't or aren't most tread patterns designed to push water outward from the wheel well to prevent hydroplaning? It seems this design would push the water more toward the middle of the tire (aka contact patch)
how much should you inflate your tires? I know manufactorers puts down some numbers, but these are for smaller stock sized tires which aren't designed for sport oriented driving.
Currently running 245/45/20 front 275/40/20 rear on Goodyear eagle sport tires. Would you recommend me going to a boxed setup and going with a more performance related tires? My cars also been lowered enough to clear all wheel gap but has enough travel to not rub, on BC Coilovers.
I just put a set of these on my 370Z to replace the OEM Potenza S007s that were on previously. The sidewalls seem less stiff and the void area seems greater than the Potenzas. The Micheline seem to be a little looser in how they respond to abrupt steering inputs, while the Potenzas seemed better damped and more firm. It my be that I'm seeing more treadblock squirm because of the newness of the tire. If the tires don't improve as I put more miles on them I won't be buying them again. I may go back to a Bridgestone or Yokohama tire next time. I had Yokohama A008Ps on a Porsche years ago and they were fantastic tires.
I have about 14K miles on the tires now and can say a few things about them. Overall, they are very good tires, especially in the rain where grip is excellent. The rayon and Kevlar belts vs steel belts result in a lighter tire, which is good. The tires are wearing very evenly across the faces, better than the Bridgestone Potenzas I had previously. The main drawback for me is still the less firm fell of the tires and the more sluggish steering input response, something that befits a touring tire better. My next set will probably be the Cup 2s after I get a new set of forged magnesium wheels later this year.
Nicely done .. thanks .. I’m thinking about these tires for my 2013 Lexus GS30 (245\45\18) .. I’m biggest concern is comfort .. I’m just doing regular cruising almost all the times .. not much fast driving .. advice please /
I had the Potenza S04 Pole Positions, great tires. Not as great as the SS and now apparently the PS4S but they were like half the price. For a guy that doesn't get paid to do laps they fit the bill. Curious as to the wear rating on these new tires.
Great information! Can you comment on the difference between vehicle-specific models of a tire and the standard version? For example, I'm running the stock M2-specific PSSs that came with my M2. Would switching to a non M2-specific version of the PS4S negate some of the benefits of the new tire technology? For the cars used in the Michelin demo, there was a mix of car-specific versions of tires along with off-the-shelf versions of competitor tires. Any thoughts?
As far as switching to a non-brand specific, the manufacturers have tested the tires with their specific vehicles and requested certain changes about the tire to better fit with their vehicle design (whether it's in regards to the suspension variables, steering feel, etc.). With regards to the tires used in testing, I do not know if they develop a specific tire for the BMW 340i (I know they do for the M cars, but it may differ).
Any idea how the Bridgestone RE-71R would compare to the Pole Position and PS4S? Debating what tires to get for my Miata... I noticed you got the RE-71R for your S2000. I reckon the Michelin is probably more comfortable though?
Another great vid, but if only you saw my comment on the last video! (maybe you did...maybe it was too late...) but if that thermal camera would have any indication to show tire temperature distribution and help give reason to why the PS4S performed better when hot!
Do tuners ever put the Exaust near the driving tires in cold climate to heat up the compound? Thought about this today when the heat from the Exaust heated up my feet this morning when loading my dog's in the SUV.
garrett2jz just while they clear them out. The new PS4S is the same price as the PSS was, so the PSS will only be cheap if they clear them out. Since PS4S initial availability may be limited, they may not do much discounting.
garrett2jz Judging from what happened with the Primacy MXV4, they'll drop in price slightly ($10-$20 per) as they sell off current inventory while ceasing production like Will said.
It was awesome meeting everyone. I'd met most, but it was great to hang out. And have a little friendly autocross competition - Rob Ferretti killed it!
Hi. If the PS4 is so much better and is replacing the legendary PILOT SUPER SPORT, then why is it cheaper???? I have an Audi s3 quattro and i've been looking for a good set of tires for two months now and i just cant choose between PS4 and PSS. help plzzzz haha
what I would like to know is if they improved upon the sidewall rigidity from the pss. especially on heavy cars like the gtr the pss sidewall was far too soft in comparison to other tires, especially the (dunlap) runflats, which made the car wander on high speed corners.
Over a year later, this tire still remains the best. This is my absolute wet dream, even though there is no way my car would make good use of it (its a 1.0L car lol).
Actually I had more issues with uneven tire wear on my Civic with symmetrical tires (was an older Michelin profile). I then switched to the Goodyear Eagle F1 Assymetric 2 and felt a big improvement in responsivenes and noise level and the tire wear issue went away. Seems to me that the specific vehicle and suspension setup plays a big role in wether symmetrical or asymmetrical profiles do work better.
Cillit Bang civics are handling monsters. they can out-handle the majority of cars. so they are very relevant in a tire discussion involving grip and wear.
Is there any sense in installing these on my 2018 Impreza Sport (NOT a WRX)? I love to thrash it around twisty mountain roads and despite its modest power (152hp) it’s a really fun and sensible car. If I’m not going to be driving over 170km/h on a track, etc, will I get much benefit?
Hey man I'm Sam, huge fan! I race karts here in Canada and have been having this ongoing debate with my friends which we can't seem to settle. I'm pretty sure you could come up with an equation that would finally put an end to this. Our question is about weight, we know a heavy driver will accelerate slower than a lighter driver given we all have the same kart. Same applies for breaking. It's when it come to corners that we don't agree, my friends tend to say wight will give you more grip since your weight is pushing downwards. But I think as soon as we start advancing we creat momentum so in a way our weight is pushing forward, therefor think you would need more energy to alter the trajectory of a heavier object. If you could anything between enlightening me a bit about this to making a video about it that be so cool. Thanks, Sam
Do you have any idea how these perform in straight line acceleration? You know, for those of us drag racing types rather than autocross types. Also, do you have any idea where I can find comparison of "lesser brand" tires? For example, I run Nitto 555 on my Mustang and would like to see how they stack up to some of these high end tires.
Really want to see how this tire will stack up against the new Continental Extremecontact Sport (Which is replacing the the Extremecontact DW that was in this test). It's down to either of those 2 for my next set.
Thank you for this informative video, I appreciate your patient and thorough explanation. I'm currently running PSS on both my cars (AMG GT and M140i) but I'll go on to these new rubbers when it's time to change.
I'm curious about tread wear with the different compounds. Assuming the "wet" compound is "softer" than the "dry" compound wouldn't it wear quicker? Is the asymmetrical tread pattern used to help even out this effect?
Oh I know, that's why I've ran Michelins on my last three vehicles and am about to put a set on my truck when the current tires wear out. I was just curious what measures they took to ensure they wore evenly because I know they wouldn't overlook it.
This was a nice comparison, but it was against the DW which has been around for 5-6 (maybe more) years now, so I hope an all new tire would be better. Really looking forward to how the PS4S does against continental's new ExtremeContact Sport - Which launches later this month. I'm betting the results will be a lot closer
Would be great to see a review between the Ultra-High-Performance (UHP) All-Seasons top contenders like Continental DWS06, Michelin Pilot A/S 3+ etc. Thanks!
![This Is Why You Should Fit OE Tires To Your Car! [Michelin Pilot Sport 4S vs 4S*]](/img/n.gif)
all these TH-cam guys went to this. this is the only one who learned and shared anything.
Texas Car Nerd he's great at these reviews isn't he?
Jason, MCM and ChrisFix are some of the last good car TH-camrs out there. Too many others like someone who's name rhymes with PJ Funt.
Michelin should get this guy to promote their tires, don't need all those other TH-camrs
This is unrelated but when I saw 2 youtubers blew off being served by Michelin star chefs I kind of wanted to scream at the screen. Getting to sit at a chefs table of a world class chef is a rare and unique opportunity that most people will never experience. The idea of dismissing something so rare I just can't imagine. I guess it's not for everyone but others of us pay north of $500 a person for something like that.
They were influences, not all car guys. I suggest you listen to the smoking tire podcast, Matt Farah talked for about 15 minutes about the event and the tires.TLDR; he said there's no difference with the car he drove.
This aramid - nylon belt is actually produced in Emmen. A small city in the Netherlands, happens to be my hometown. Great to see this tire is loved all over the world. Great video, keep up the good work!
I use Pilot Sport 4 on my daily driver and I’m blown away at the levels of grip that can be achieved by a quiet, comfortable, well behaved tyre.
I can’t begin to imagine what the 4S must be like
I hear you lose a bit of comfort and quiet with the 4s from the 4 all season, but the dry performance is enhanced.
Nicely done Jason. We should have had you teaching that session. Next year, let do it. Great meeting you at the event. The tire is honestly great! Thanks #MichelinUSA
+DoctaM3 great meeting you too!
Both of you guys did great!
Great video Jason! Michelin definitely seems to be at the top of the tire industry right now. It must have been a blast to test them out.
You can tell someone was waiting for a video to upload when... lol
subaruwrxfan Ayy it's Matt!
Michelin has always been at the top of the tyre industry. In fact, they actually created the tyre industry.
+MarKassiN actually no.If you read tyre test, you will see that every year there is a different manufacturer on top.This year is Michelin, next year maybe Pirelli or Continental or GY... will have the top tire.
15mins and already people complaining about the video sponsored. How does it matter if it is sponsored or not if it gives us more car related content?
his conclusions might be biased. But Michellin has been leading the charge for a long time now, also the raw stats proove his points. People, who dislike product placement, tend to forget, how good it can be, if noone is fooled...
Satwik Basu It really doesn't matter at all. My guess is what has people annoyed is the idea that this video was basically a commercial for Michelin Pilot Sport 4 tires. Usually Engineering Explained videos entail things like what not to do in a CVT or how AWD works. This video was far from the usual format. I know I personally hate commercials and see enough of them everywhere else. I'm not going to waste time complaining I'd rather just unsubscribe.
Bias
It's sponsored in the right way. Michelin brought in pretty much everybody on TH-cam car media, and made a very public event. No "behind the doors" stuff.
I am so glad that someone from the youtube community actually talked about the tyres! Thank you.. Yes the cars were cool but it's nice to hear about the tyres and how the reacted in real world circumstances.. These are on my list for sure..
Tires are very important but people will spend on expensive exhaust and engine mods but will use cheapo tires
Underrated comment.
And then wonder why they can't hold power down
Seriously. When I first learned to drive and used to try to drive fast in the hills where we lived. My Dad, he said to me, Always have respect for your machine. Dont unnecessarily push it to the limits. Remember all that is between you and the ground is a bit of rubber and some air. So make sure your tyres are always in top condition and with the proper pressure in them. And properly balanced and aligned as well. Look after these essentials and keep looking for sidewall cracks and other such. A tyre, like anything else, deteriorates over time. So it is sensible to change them as they age and become harder and less pliable even though they may not have run all that many kilometers. The last thing you want is a blowout at speed!
It’s cause they gunna “drift” lmao jk 😂
i dunno man, i see a lot of people cheap out on EVERYTHING.
you sold me on the STi watching your video i purchased an STi in HYPER BLUE 1 OF 700.....
11K MILES of very aggresive driving wore out the stock Dunlop Sport Maxx out ------ in the front
mostly at The Tail of the Dragon
Just orders these tires on 4/12/2018
my brother has the super sports and loves them, can't wait
just this morning ordered a set of Michelin Pilot Sport 4s
Thank you my friend
absolutely enjoy your videos
The only youtuber to come back and give us real information!.. the rest were either drunk or chilling. Thanks for sharing.
Best coverage of this event so far. It's amazing how much optimisation is still possible. Would've been interesting if they had included the previous version of the tyre in the data/tests as well.
Thank you!! They did include some data comparisons versus the previous tire at the event - though I don't recall all of the numbers. I think the dry lap time improvement was 0.16 seconds, which doesn't sound like too much, but in racing that's a huge lap advantage. Edit: They also mentioned a 7% improvement in the wet braking.
Also Michelin has an incredible business model. I've never seen so much hype over a tire, good for them and their marketing team. And they actually put up good numbers behind their marketing, so few companies do that. Massive respect for them as of now, and they set a good example for others to follow.
Can the ps4s run 4K 60fps?
Christian R not as well as the Pirelli PC-ro
Definitely getting a set of these before my trip to Spa in May.
I just purchased ps4S they are wonderful tires best noise road reduction, awesome handling & always get compliments on how beautiful the tires look!!!
You can put your ad at the rear to avoid negativity. - One thing you did not mention is Ps4S higher mileage and a lower cost than the sticky PSScup2 as found on Corvette Zo6.
Exactly right there, the 4s is better bang for your buck.
Damn commericals.
Just kidding. Your videos are very educational and I know you don't work for free.
It's not a commercial, I wasn't paid nor required to make this video. Even if I was, it wouldn't change my approach.
Engineering Explained i think he meant the ad that came before
Engineering Explained great video btw. Although I have two questions. Are the new Michelin pilot sport 4 s tires faster in the dry than the old super sport? I couldn't find any comparison on michelins website to confirm or deny this. And is the new bi-compound construction now 40% dry grip oriented compared to the old ss which was only 20% dry oriented. And what I'm referring to is only the outer 1/5 of tread blocks was a dry compound on the ss and judging by your video the ps4s the outer 2/5 is dry compound. Thank you so much again for your videos.
Yes, quicker in the dry than the SS tire. They quoted a 0.16 sec lap time improvement over the previous tire.
But how do we know that saying "I wasn't paid" was a part of the sponsoring contract? It's a conspiracy! Lol just kidding.
I run Michelin PSSes and they are great, particularly the treadlife for this category of tire.
Really? ever review where someone actually drove their car hard with a set of summer tires according to tire rack says no max or extreme performance summer tire will last and pss' get eaten by camber wear.
teh vee teh vee Yep, really. And these aren't track tires; they're performance daily driver tires. And I drive/setup for performance, not stance. Maybe the stance guys should choose another tire; I don't know. I've never heard of that issue. But, like I said, my car isn't setup for "looks" but functionality.
Numinous a couple of degrees of camber is not stance. Any and every performance vehicle has negative camber dialed in ,where passenger cars run a little bit of positive camber. A couple degrees of camber isn't 'stance' and many manufacturers require 2-3 degrees of negative camber for the best performance, eg Toyo r888's. Judging on your review , I doubt you drive your tires hard man and not having the numerical data to back up the tires longevity claim doesn't help your opinion or answering my question. The majority of people in those reviews lied to themselves, hence why I am asking you! Because Michelin's 30k warranty doesn't apply to cars with any camber, so the people hyper miling these tires aren't even putting them to work.
teh vee teh vee I've had no issues and run a performance level of camber. And my tires definitely get worked, from both canyon carving and the 385/380 @ the wheels that I put down in my Speed 3.
-3 degrees on a standard car is completely excessive. I'd like to see a manufacturer's spec on a "normal" car that calls for -3 degrees camber, LOL. That's actually beyond a performance-DD setting of camber, according to the race shop that does my alignements and does tracking events/track support virtually every single weekend of the year.
I wonder if you realize that toe settings can have a major impact on excessive edge wear? Like I said, I've loved my PSSes and have many buddies who have run them too. Not a single one had the issue you mentioned. And we drive our cars like we stole them.
I am on my second set of super sports now. First set was trashed after 16k miles. I had -3 degrees of camber. Will probably not go with super sports in the future.
been rolling michelins for 8 years now, never had any issues with my tires! Definitely a michelin fan
Very good discussion on the new product PS4. This fellow usually does a great detailed jobs on discussion the technologies for cars.
Did you personally inspect the tire pressure on the test vehicles? It would have had a big impact on tire related performance.
I did not personally inspect each tire's pressure, but they were all set equal at the beginning of the autocross session.
Well that's something, at least. Hopefully whoever was in charge of that task performed it accurately and didn't get lazy. Tire pressure makes such a difference in performance vehicles.
2 Questions.
1. If the tire is a split compound where the inner half is more for wet conditions, and the outter is more for dry and aggressive conditions, would that make the tire unevenly wear out across the width if the two conditions were not driven equally? For example. Say the tire is mounted on a car like a Charger Hellcat or a Corvette. A vehicle that can be driven as both a daily driving car or a powerful sports car. If the owner of such a car mostly drives normal everyday, and rarely "gets on it", would that mean the inner section if the tire would wear out faster then the outter section due to different make up?
2. Would that also create a weak spot in the tire itself where the two compounds meet? Or did they take all that into consideration?
You showed breaking distance between P4s and competitors, but not P4s vs PSS.
Is it possible for you to make a video explaining different tread patterns and different treads? Keep up the good work sir :)
Yes, these tires are freakin amazing. Talk about dominating the competition in its class.
Great video, I was interested in hearing more about the ps4s since they were announced so this was on point.
"Hello everyone and welcome." - golden line
You just saved me a lot of time and research effort. Thanks! When I got my 350Z about 3.5 years ago I put Super Sports on it for the summer, and something else in the winter, and got over 50,000 km out of them. After this winter season is over I'm going to need new summer tires, and I haven't had time yet to research whether or not their new tire was actually better. I'm very glad to see it is, otherwise I would've been in the dark as to what to buy. The Super Sports were great! Never been more happy with a tire than I was with them. Looking forward to the new tires. I wish they had put the Super Sport in all the same tests just so we could see what the difference was.
+Engineering Explained Just got the Michelin PS4S for summer tyres here in Sweden to my SEAT Leon Cupra MK3 (Stage 1). Many thanks for the video, superb and technical review as always. That was my main reason for ordering them ;)!
this kind of educational channel must be well paid!
Hey Jason, can you give some info about wheel sizes, please?
I wonder when will wheel size increment stop? Is there a limit? What is the best wheel size. Does the body geometry decides the optimal wheel size? When will production passenger vehicles (not SUVs) have 20+ tires? Why did manufactures start making cars with 14-" wheels back in the stone age? Why are now 18" and 19" tires in the market? I'm confused and curious.
Can you give me some history and math about this topic?
Great video!! Michelin is in a class by themselves! i will be getting the tires 4 my new Audi!! Thanks again, Michael C..cool
I run pilot super sport tires and love them to death night and day compared to my stock tires.
I can't wait to purchase these successor.
oh I drive a 13 Civic Si lol
Great explanation of PS4S technology, but by inside and outside are you referring to the car, or the turn? If the latter, the effect seems specific to the outside of the tire on the OUTSIDE of a turn. Wouldn't the opposite occur on the outside of the tire on the INSIDE of the turn, thus deriving no benefit from the dual compound technology? I know there is centrifugal weight transfer during cornering, but is the outside tire so much more important in turns, that the opposite effect on the inside tire can be discounted? In a very flat, low slung car the inside tire still carries a lot of load, so the effect should be bi-directional, I think.
I just got the Super Sports on 04 Mach 1. I replaced the standard Eagle tire that I never loved. Whoa. The difference was astounding. Road noise dropped. (I realize a worn out tire will always be louder than fresh rubber.) Grip and drive ability skyrocketed. The Goodyears lasted a long time but that was the only great thing about them. The SS's grab and bite hard when pushed. If I go to kick the rear end out, I love how predictable every moment feels with all that grip waiting to grab again. I don't need or want to add to the stigmata of mustang drivers.
Engineering Explained Please do a video about the new all weather tires with the 3PMSF severe weather certification such as Michelin CrossClimate and Vredestein Quatrac.
Very nice presentation. You did justice to the tire and the tests without sounding like you sold your soul to Michelin.
Happy to hear it!
These are incredible tires. I have them on all my vehicles. A little pricey but a better value than anything else out there when you consider the performance and the life of the tire.
PSS came on my V60 Polestar and they are great tires. They can be a little noisy but the grip is unreal. I can't wait to try the 4s and I hope noise levels are better
Exceptional review. About to start road racing and this review has given me a unique insight into the science vs the hype. Will purchase these tires or the cup 2 for my 66’ Mustang Restomod.
hey man, so no lie i just spent about 3 hours looking at your older videos and i came across the "reading mean comments" one and i gotta say... you should totally do that again 😂 and bring back the dino suit!
Thank you! Definitely the most in-depth video I've seen, but still very concise.
Hello, Great video !! question.. I just bought these and the way they are fitted is like this..
Right Side (looking from Behind)
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Left Side (looking from Behind)
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i.e. the grooves on the outside slant outwards at different angles... really weird how Michelin do this,, you would think they would make LEft and Right Tyres, and not just one variation..
I've kind of just stuck with Falken 615 tires going on 10 years. never let me down and while another tire might do better in one area it doesn't just kill the Falkens.
Im replacing the stock tires on my WRX today. Thx for the video. Gonna pick a set of these up
Right on! I think you'll love it!
Zak Unknown did you get them on yet? I ordered a set, but live in the northeast, so I still have to wait a couple more weeks to try them, grrrrrr!
Yeah. took 3 days to get in from discount tire. They had a hard time getting them though. Havent been able to really test them yet. live in Ohio :/ been pretty cold. Good luck friend!
Zak Unknown thanks!
It's unfortunate that they're not available for 17, 18" yet, apart from one size: 245/45/18. Great video once again, Jason.
// // well they are now!
Which tires are best for Los Angeles roads in your opinion . I just bought a used 2016 corvette stingray convertible with no z51 package. I have magnetic suspension and it is very comfortable. Even with these OEM RFT super sports its still extremely comfortable compared to others. I am only looking at Michelin tires and still do not know which to choose. ZP, 4s, ps2, or maybe the all season tires. I am not going on the track or driving in the rain. Comport is the most important and I guess performance is a little less important. Which one would you recommend and how much more comfortable are they from the RFT super sports that I am driving on right know? I am also open to other brands if they are better. Thank you
2 track days on my michelin ps4 plus street driving (smaller size ps4s for 17" wheels on s2000 )
Amazing tires. On street and on track, they're no slicks.. but amazing as you see on my videos
No drama on the track
Always bought PSS for my cars, thanks for this video. It was very informative for my next purchase👍🏽
I just got this tires AS relative the Pilot A/S3+. Michelin make incredible products. I'd love to see a video about the AS 3+!
Silly question but here goes...what tire pressure would you start out with for tracking or autocrossing? .... Thanks.
I run P-zeros. Glad to see the tires I'm upgrading to are an improvement. These P-zeros dont last long too.
I have the PSS on my m135i. already a super great tire! Going to try the PS4S after these!
+boost scooby jealous of your ride, that's a sweet car!
boost scooby just got them for my 135. Did u stick with the stock 215/40/18 245/35/18 or did u size up 225/40/18 255/35/18
Engineering Explained Thanks man! car is full bolt ons. 420 hp and 580nm on 98 pump fuel(belgium) And some other sweet suspension bits. Your vids are awesome!
Marco Minervini Front is 225/40/r18 and back is 245/35/r18. going 255 in the back with apex arc8 wheels. Cause lack of grips due to the power of the car
What sort of feedback do these tires give at the limit before traction loss? Is it progressive with ample warning or a sudden drop? Just curious because that's a pretty important thing to be aware of when buying tires for my style of driving. I like to have signs of a limit rather than going over without knowing.
I imagine they won't be avaible for smaller dimensions, probably 18''+.. I was purchasing tires for my BMW e21 and Michelin Pilot Sport 3 was probably the best tyre to have in the 15'' department (for road use - no semislicks). As a light car with no ABS I must say that there is a massive difference between good tire and a bad tire, it just sucks that they are cutting down the dimension options for us, that don't roll a huge wheel... Great content, thank you for the video!
Fascinating technology. It is amazing how closely street tires of today rival the performance of past race tires.
Shame these tires only come in 18" and up rim diameters. If they made lightweight 15" sizes, they'd be very very attractive autocross tires.
I struggle to find the best possible 19-20 inch Summer tyres for my BMW 535i xDrive 2012. What I am absolutely sure is though, I do not want any RFT!
There are 3 tyres in which I am interested (All w/o RFT) : PSS (*), PS4s (w/o *), Conti SC6 (w/o *)
The only "Star-Tyre" without RFT is the Michelin Pilot Super sport.
Do you recommend buying older-generation tyres WITH * or newer Generation WITHOUT * ???
Thank you
I have a questioning for you that has been eating my mind. So turbo flutter, is created when the blow off valve is blocked off and causes air to... well go back. How much does the effect the life span of the turbo? I am reading that it does reduce the life span of the turbo over time.
Interresting. I run Bridgestone tires on my performance bike for several years in a row now and they stick like hell, especially when heated up by challenging bike and tires (??). On my TVR Tuscan I run economic Toyo Proxess tires. Since the have a short lifespan on that car, I´m happy with them, too.
I had the regular PSS on my GTI. My only gripe with those tires were that they worn down VERY quick, 17k miles of just regular driving (no autox, no track, no drag) they were almost done. Hopefully these last much longer.
Hypothetically, in relation to having the "wet" pattern on the inside, shouldn't or aren't most tread patterns designed to push water outward from the wheel well to prevent hydroplaning? It seems this design would push the water more toward the middle of the tire (aka contact patch)
I got these last summer and their great, ride comfort and noise is really good considering I switched from Eagle F1s my 16 Focus ST came with.
how much should you inflate your tires? I know manufactorers puts down some numbers, but these are for smaller stock sized tires which aren't designed for sport oriented driving.
Thanks Jason! Definitely my next summer performance tire once my stock ones wear out!
Currently running 245/45/20 front 275/40/20 rear on Goodyear eagle sport tires. Would you recommend me going to a boxed setup and going with a more performance related tires? My cars also been lowered enough to clear all wheel gap but has enough travel to not rub, on BC Coilovers.
I just put a set of these on my 370Z to replace the OEM Potenza S007s that were on previously. The sidewalls seem less stiff and the void area seems greater than the Potenzas. The Micheline seem to be a little looser in how they respond to abrupt steering inputs, while the Potenzas seemed better damped and more firm. It my be that I'm seeing more treadblock squirm because of the newness of the tire. If the tires don't improve as I put more miles on them I won't be buying them again. I may go back to a Bridgestone or Yokohama tire next time. I had Yokohama A008Ps on a Porsche years ago and they were fantastic tires.
I have about 14K miles on the tires now and can say a few things about them. Overall, they are very good tires, especially in the rain where grip is excellent. The rayon and Kevlar belts vs steel belts result in a lighter tire, which is good. The tires are wearing very evenly across the faces, better than the Bridgestone Potenzas I had previously. The main drawback for me is still the less firm fell of the tires and the more sluggish steering input response, something that befits a touring tire better. My next set will probably be the Cup 2s after I get a new set of forged magnesium wheels later this year.
Whats the best all weather tire? I live in the PNW like you and always wanna stay ready for the random rain and snow we get.
Nicely done .. thanks ..
I’m thinking about these tires for my 2013 Lexus GS30 (245\45\18) .. I’m biggest concern is comfort .. I’m just doing regular cruising almost all the times .. not much fast driving .. advice please /
I had the Potenza S04 Pole Positions, great tires. Not as great as the SS and now apparently the PS4S but they were like half the price. For a guy that doesn't get paid to do laps they fit the bill. Curious as to the wear rating on these new tires.
Great information! Can you comment on the difference between vehicle-specific models of a tire and the standard version? For example, I'm running the stock M2-specific PSSs that came with my M2. Would switching to a non M2-specific version of the PS4S negate some of the benefits of the new tire technology? For the cars used in the Michelin demo, there was a mix of car-specific versions of tires along with off-the-shelf versions of competitor tires. Any thoughts?
As far as switching to a non-brand specific, the manufacturers have tested the tires with their specific vehicles and requested certain changes about the tire to better fit with their vehicle design (whether it's in regards to the suspension variables, steering feel, etc.). With regards to the tires used in testing, I do not know if they develop a specific tire for the BMW 340i (I know they do for the M cars, but it may differ).
Correction: Y speed rating is not for "over 186mph", but just "up to 186mph".
Correct, 300 km/h if you're using S.I. units
great info. This channel is very good
Any idea how the Bridgestone RE-71R would compare to the Pole Position and PS4S? Debating what tires to get for my Miata... I noticed you got the RE-71R for your S2000. I reckon the Michelin is probably more comfortable though?
Another great vid, but if only you saw my comment on the last video! (maybe you did...maybe it was too late...) but if that thermal camera would have any indication to show tire temperature distribution and help give reason to why the PS4S performed better when hot!
Do tuners ever put the Exaust near the driving tires in cold climate to heat up the compound? Thought about this today when the heat from the Exaust heated up my feet this morning when loading my dog's in the SUV.
so will the super sports become cheaper now?
I think they might just go out of production
garrett2jz just while they clear them out. The new PS4S is the same price as the PSS was, so the PSS will only be cheap if they clear them out. Since PS4S initial availability may be limited, they may not do much discounting.
garrett2jz
Judging from what happened with the Primacy MXV4, they'll drop in price slightly ($10-$20 per) as they sell off current inventory while ceasing production like Will said.
It was great that you have met a lot of TH-camrs in there.
It was awesome meeting everyone. I'd met most, but it was great to hang out. And have a little friendly autocross competition - Rob Ferretti killed it!
Hi. If the PS4 is so much better and is replacing the legendary PILOT SUPER SPORT, then why is it cheaper????
I have an Audi s3 quattro and i've been looking for a good set of tires for two months now and i just cant choose between PS4 and PSS. help plzzzz haha
Shorter braking is great, but what about roll distance and wear over time?
what I would like to know is if they improved upon the sidewall rigidity from the pss. especially on heavy cars like the gtr the pss sidewall was far too soft in comparison to other tires, especially the (dunlap) runflats, which made the car wander on high speed corners.
Can you make a video about the new Yaris engine, or is there not much to talk about? Are there videos about its technologies?
Over a year later, this tire still remains the best. This is my absolute wet dream, even though there is no way my car would make good use of it (its a 1.0L car lol).
Will the asymmetric compound cause asymmetric tire wear?
Assuming your correct tire pressures are maintained, it's designed to wear evenly.
Actually I had more issues with uneven tire wear on my Civic with symmetrical tires (was an older Michelin profile). I then switched to the Goodyear Eagle F1 Assymetric 2 and felt a big improvement in responsivenes and noise level and the tire wear issue went away. Seems to me that the specific vehicle and suspension setup plays a big role in wether symmetrical or asymmetrical profiles do work better.
I spotted your problem on the first sentence..... "Civic"
Cillit Bang civics are handling monsters. they can out-handle the majority of cars. so they are very relevant in a tire discussion involving grip and wear.
Really helpful! I'll be putting some of these on my Porsche now
Is there any sense in installing these on my 2018 Impreza Sport (NOT a WRX)? I love to thrash it around twisty mountain roads and despite its modest power (152hp) it’s a really fun and sensible car. If I’m not going to be driving over 170km/h on a track, etc, will I get much benefit?
Do you know the lowest temperature that Michelin recommends running this tire?
Any mention of where they compare to in price compared to the pilot super sports? I hope they ate similar if they are replacements.
Hey man I'm Sam, huge fan! I race karts here in Canada and have been having this ongoing debate with my friends which we can't seem to settle. I'm pretty sure you could come up with an equation that would finally put an end to this. Our question is about weight, we know a heavy driver will accelerate slower than a lighter driver given we all have the same kart. Same applies for breaking. It's when it come to corners that we don't agree, my friends tend to say wight will give you more grip since your weight is pushing downwards. But I think as soon as we start advancing we creat momentum so in a way our weight is pushing forward, therefor think you would need more energy to alter the trajectory of a heavier object. If you could anything between enlightening me a bit about this to making a video about it that be so cool.
Thanks, Sam
Do you have any idea how these perform in straight line acceleration? You know, for those of us drag racing types rather than autocross types.
Also, do you have any idea where I can find comparison of "lesser brand" tires? For example, I run Nitto 555 on my Mustang and would like to see how they stack up to some of these high end tires.
Great video!!! Were there any comparisons between the old super sports and these? Curious of the performance improvement.
+CarGuy11 there were, but I don't recall all of the numbers. 7% improvement in wet braking, and 0.16 sec lap time improvement were the two I remember.
i run the pilot super sports on my RCZ and it transformed the car . next set to go on will be the pilot sport 4s , well worth it by the sounds of it
Great video as usual! I can't wait to change over to these next time I need to replace my tires.
Great job and knowledge bro !!!
Really want to see how this tire will stack up against the new Continental Extremecontact Sport (Which is replacing the the Extremecontact DW that was in this test). It's down to either of those 2 for my next set.
Thank you for this informative video, I appreciate your patient and thorough explanation. I'm currently running PSS on both my cars (AMG GT and M140i) but I'll go on to these new rubbers when it's time to change.
I'm curious about tread wear with the different compounds. Assuming the "wet" compound is "softer" than the "dry" compound wouldn't it wear quicker? Is the asymmetrical tread pattern used to help even out this effect?
Oh I know, that's why I've ran Michelins on my last three vehicles and am about to put a set on my truck when the current tires wear out. I was just curious what measures they took to ensure they wore evenly because I know they wouldn't overlook it.
Damn this is why I love engineers.
This was a nice comparison, but it was against the DW which has been around for 5-6 (maybe more) years now, so I hope an all new tire would be better.
Really looking forward to how the PS4S does against continental's new ExtremeContact Sport - Which launches later this month. I'm betting the results will be a lot closer
when are these tires going to be released to the public for sale?
Would be great to see a review between the Ultra-High-Performance (UHP) All-Seasons top contenders like Continental DWS06, Michelin Pilot A/S 3+ etc.
Thanks!
love ur vids man
Thanks Ryan - love your positive comment!