Thanks very much for taking the time to record this 2 part series. I was very insightful. I have an '07 titan that I bought new, live in northern Minnesota and have never had this issue through 15 winters in which multiple -20F days per winter and a brutal -40F day a few years ago. The Titan fired up every time - until this morning! It was only about 0F (-18C) and it was the dreaded 'crank NO-START' phenomenon. I'm thankful I found this series of videos. I tried the cam sensor replacement and the truck did fire up and remain running but I don't think I'm out of the woods yet. Thanks again for this detailed look at the problem. Follow-up information below: It was a bad ECM and I had to replace all three camshaft position sensors. After I replaced the ECM, I was getting P0340 camshaft position sensor Bank A (drivers side) errors (even though the truck would start). I replaced the phase sensor (the one on the end of the block on the drivers side) first, cleared all codes and fired it up. Still got P0340 immediately. Then I replaced the camshaft position sensor on the drivers side top of the block, cleared all codes and fired it up. Got P1145 - camshaft position sensor issue on Bank B (passenger side). Replaced this camshaft position sensor (top of block on passenger side), cleared all codes and fired it up. No codes - no issues since. Just because I'm too curious, after replacing all three camshaft position sensors I was wondering if it was the ECM or just the sensors. I put my original ECM back in the truck just to satisfy my curiosity - and - CRANK NO START was immediately experienced. That satisfied my curiosity that the ECM did need to be replaced as well. I re-installed my new ECM and the truck has been starting and running great ever since. For those interested I installed the Duralast Camshaft Position Sensors SU5745 from Autozone. They were identical to the original sensors in my 2007 Titan.
Iam having the exact same issue with my truck starts fine unless it's below freezing. Replaced cam and crank sensors with factory nissan stuff still doing the same thing no codes present. Where did you buy your ecm from
I’ve had this problem for two years but it was mainly only an issue in the winter so I just put up with it until recently when it got worse. Much diagnostic was done and parts replaced. I found another video where the mechanic discovered that the positive battery fusible link was bad and he replaced it. I inspected mine and observed that my battery fusible link was corroded. It was a $20 part with discount from Advance so I replaced it. No more issues!! She starts right up on frigid mornings and when parked for days. I would have the worst problems in cold mornings and if it sat for days without use. Just wanted to share this so that others can try this simple inexpensive solution first. I may do a video so that other Titan owners don’t throw away needless amounts of money on functioning parts.
Its all those bad Electrolytic Capacitors!! Just a thought... I see more and more problems with electronics starting at 5 years old depending on heat exposure. The liquid electrolyte dries and the ESR (equivalent series resistance) goes up. In other words, you start having inaccurate sensor values and random issues. Another great case study, Thanks Ivan!!
There might be more than just caps. It seems to me that the way of cost/profit optimization tries to cut every possible corner there is. I started to notice this first when reading camera specs - my old film camera (not a pro cam, mind you) was rated to work between -20 to 30 or 40C (and it did, I really went out to shoot at -22C). Newer consumer/amateur cameras (especialy because of their puny Li-batteries) - not so much. Lowest temperature - 0C or -5C. Thats it and even this seems to be overrated marketing wank because the number of frames drops like stone at cooler temps. Use external battery? Yes, it helps. But then you'll notice that backlights and/or LCD screens stop working etc. Electronic components (chips, transistors) are binned and it goes from milspec to consumer grade. The latter being the cheapest but also the most crappiest (say - works ONLY at room temp, forget below freezing). Some factories experiment with newer tech, sometimes that does not stand the test of time. Some start to cut corners in existing production. Can't trust the solder used or boards themselves (board becoming conductive, microcracks in traces) etc etc. So, I would not be surprised that some cars are built the same way.
also, microprocessors can become cold sensitive. I remember working on GM-900 clusters that were completely dead in cold weather. Blow hot air on the micro and they came alive.
Still an excellent case study that lead ultimately to the ECM . If the owner is smart he will take your recommendation and replace the other two cam sensors when the ECM is replaced. If I were him or her, I would not roll the bones on an unreliable vehicle, bite the bullet and fix it. GREAT case study.
Thanks Ivan for another Curveball Diagnosis! Its getting to the point we are gonna have to charge more time for research and more for scopes to do our jobs. I don't think Amazon sells crystal balls to know what the diagnosis is in 30 minutes to and hour. Thanks for following up and being persistent. Keep them coming.
Hi Ivan. Love your videos. On my sailboat, starting the engine causes a voltage drop that makes electronics like chartplotters restart, loosing data and needing for a minute or so while they reacquire satellites. I did everything I could to reduce the voltage drop but it was still a problem. So I added a Newmar Startguard. It's basically a little lead acid battery that holds up the voltage at the electronics when the start causes a drop in voltage everywhere else. Works great on a boat, maybe it has application in these trucks. Or at least use it as a diagnostic tool.
Ivan, this was a fabulous case study...great troubleshooting. Have a 2008 Pro4X HD that has the same issues. I can put a charger (trickle) on and will start right up...even in cold. I tried turning over with ether with no luck, changed out a new battery...same issue. I inherited this truck from my son (he took my tacoma) and have several electronic issues: rear cargo window would go down but not up and finally traced to a relay. AC/Heater motor has went out 2x. Windows mysteriously go down during the night. I don't drive it more than 4k a year. I don't think Ill ever buy a Titan!!!!!
There is bulletin on snap on. U might need pcm relay coz if voltage drops below 9’6 v the injectors will not pulse. The easiest way to check the ignition coil battery voltage while cranking. If it drops below 9.6 or less then check the battery first then the relay. Swap the defrost relay with pcm relay a nd see if starts right away
How to fix a nissan Step 1 take the money you would use for repairs and use it as a down payment for something other than a Nissan. Step 2 sell the Nissan.
Microprocessors can be cold-sensitive too. I fixed many instrument clusters that were stone dead on cold mornings. Change the micro, units were good to go.
Very interesting diagnosis, Ivan! What's interesting is....say you had a battery tamer on it so the battery didn't die during your service time. This would create your typical battery voltage and the truck would fire up. But then, you could still get a call back as the owner drove it from day to day. If you were constantly in the habit of hooking a battery charger on it from the get-go, you might miss this one! Awesome job, as always!
Thank you for taking the time to post those videos, my son in law has been battling this exact same problem. We have tried and tried to figure it out. Great work!!
To test I would pull the fuse to the ECU's ignition feed and feed a separate 12V source to it. If the symptoms are not reproducible after that, a semi ghetto but possible fix may be to add a *super capacitor* bank (~$60 on ebay) to the ignition feed going into the ECU. Splice in the cap bank in parallel with the + feed wire. Use a 10W ~20-30 ohm resistor leading to the cap bank for limiting in-rush current and a couple ~15A schottky diodes (1 after the caps and the other in line directly to the ECU) to limit back feeding to the battery. Finally, add a relay to the Neg of the cap bank, activated by the Pos feed of the Ign wire or the circuit will stay live even after the engine is turned off. May need to leave the key in the Run position a moment before attempting to crank so the caps can charge up. A "Russian" repair for sure but relatively cheap option in contrast to replacing/repairing the ECU. Just use some spade terminals or whatever when doing the wiring so it can easily be restored back to factory if it gets repaired proper down the line.
That would be an interesting experiment! Even just add the ability to power the ECU off a separate car battery as a test. Good idea! That would definiitively determine whether the ECU is going stupid during cranking and reduced B+ voltage.
I have the exact same problem on an 07 armada. I have done all the same tests with the same results except the cam position sensor. It has the same reading with the scope where it’s dropping down and the second it flips up it starts right up. The only thing I cannot reproduce is having the signal stay correctly up and not start. I have tried heating up the pcm and it did not seem to make a difference. Other than getting a perfect wave from the cam sensor I’m thinking the same thing that the pcm is bad. Also when scanning it there are no codes. I’m not sure yet if replacing the pcm will fix it but thank you for the video it definitely helped with such a weird diagnosis!
“Update” I ordered a replacement pcm from flagship one. A side note on that it came with bent pins and one pushed in. I did get them straightened out and I will have to see how they want to handle that. As far as the pcm goes it does work and fixed the no start when cold. I also replaced all three cam sensors with the 9th revision ones straight from the dealer so hopefully they fixed whatever the issue was with the previous 8 revisions.
Combination meters are a very common issue for cold weather starting issues on Titans. Also, I had a Titan where the ECM calculated voltage was reading ~6v higher than actual. 12v at the battery showed as 18v in the ECM, causing a crank no start. ECM replacement fixed the customer's vehicle.
I have a 2009 Titan with the same problem. The previous owner said that the dealer installed a rebuilt computer to fix the problem last winter ($900). Then spring arrived and it warmed up. This winter it wouldn't start below about +22F. I Installed a new 750CCA battery and now it's good down to approx +15F but I can start it at any temperature with a high capacity car starter.
Good job! TIP: The new style of sensors used on Nissan/Infiniti are those round metal looking ones. NEVER buy those aftermarket cheap, 3 sensors for $40. They will fail in a very short time after installation. Avoid counterfeit parts and buy from trusted reliable sources also.
IMHO, very few if any ECMs will work properly if the battery voltage drops down to 8.0V during starting. Some where, the power supply in the PCM will re-start the CPU. It takes a few microseconds before the software is running and can fire an injector or spark plug. I have seen on Ford products where on processor (air bag) will have a slightly higher "drop out" voltage. This will give you an air bag warning light, but if you shut the engine off and restart it goes away. This could be similar in that another module is not happy at low voltages even though the ECM is ! (FYI - 30 years ago, in the early days of EFI, there was extra circuitry in some ECMs that would fire the injectors under low voltage conditions before the software "woke up" !)
That's a good 1! Save those waveforms. I agree that 10v cranking is plenty, even 8 or 9. In my experience only VWs are very sensitive to lower cranking voltage, needing about 9 to 10V + in some models before they will start, regardless of cranking rpm. Should not be so on that Nissan. I also agree, 3 new CMP sensors because you've proven something is going on there and we already know these are high failure prone parts.
I would clean/check the integrity of the ECM connector, wiggle wires monitoring wave pulses and have a can of freeze spray on hand. The diagnosis does however seem to indicate solder connectivity issues or thermal breakdown of an ECM component.
I had a similar problem with a ldv maxus van were it won't start unless you jump start it and no one could figure it out. So one day I was looking around the engine bay and noticed there was a piece of rust only about 2 sheets of paper thin between the sensor and the block after giving it a good sand down it started right up. But it didn't have and symptoms of a bad crank sensor, we had rpm and we had a wave form but it turns out the ecu needs a 3 volt peak to peak signal and it was only a 2 volt peak to peak signal so that bit of paper thin rust made all the difference
I think the sensors are fine. I worked with some wheel sensors recently that was doing that at time. I think it have something to do with residual magnetism in the pickup. Once you get it going fast enought or for long enought the signal revert back to normal.
Sounds like a possible bad solder joint to me, they will very often play up in cold conditions - the metal or the board contracts when cold. Could even be a crack in a surface mount capacitor. Not easy to find on a modern smd computer board. One possible way of finding it would be to use some good old freeze spray, freeze certain parts of the board until hopefully you find it.
There's nothing worse than going down a big rabbit hole I had a few experiences like that myself it's just a big waste of time and the go kart still wasn't fixed until I found out it's a stuck power button and boom it fired right up
Ebay has a bunch of them. But they know what there worth apparently, they are not cheap. I bought a refurbished one from a company for a dodge stratus and had good luck so far with it.
Have the mysterious no start also,in good weather, modified cat converters show po420 & po430 periodically,but not related to nostart.Cant find wiring issues or in IPDM unit internally.I just clear codes under dash once a week to solve problem for now.
Ivan, Recap the ECU. Those ten year old capacitors will fail when cold and work when warm. Classic electrolytic cap failure mode. Recap the ECU. But first look for leakage and corrosion on the board around the caps and check for a fishy odor when you un-solder them. If there is a lot of leakage or some PCB traces are corroded away or blackened then just trash the box. It will never be right again if that happened. In that case even a competent rebuilder will not try to save it.
Привет Иван! Случай распространенный. Встречал на русскоязычных форумах информацию, что это проблема не в ECM. Данные о напряжении, поступают из другого блока! Прошло много времени, я плохо помню. Речь шла о блоке управления кондиционером или BCM. Для подтверждения этого диагноза, подключают дополнительный аккумулятор на выход втягивающего реле стартера.
I've had a few of those crank no start be a weak battery.. Even if it cranks strong the pcm doesn't fire the injectors.. New battery fixes it.. But I did have one that was an intermittent crank no start no injection pulse be a bad pcm..all a variation of the nissan 5.6l armada or titan
Ivan another good video. Thank you for the update. Much appreciated. Is owner changing the computer now or waiting for the cold weather? Stay safe and well Artie 😊
You were correct in part 1. when you called the ECM bad. I guess they are so damned expensive you were being cautious. It would definitely suck if you went with your gut only to find out the problem lies elsewhere
Man, that was a tough one! Strange failure mode for a computer, for sure. I haven't been a big fan of any Nissan products in the 21st Century. They always seem to be a PITA, lol.
Don't digital ecms needat least 10 volts to operate? Maybe ahead gun to warm ecm may verify cold problem on ecm. You are awsome,awesome, and diagnosing.
Just found an extra 70 ma total 130ma on my 2010 nissan Altima, cause is room lamps i.e. interior lights 10 amp fuse pulled ok now. So looks like bad BCM, also checked lights under cover for visor mirrors was not issue. Anyone else have this? Car always started in FL but batteries lasts 9-12 months, to many deep cycles overnite...
Nissans take a while to go to sleep. My Wife's Rogue stays at 90mA for about half an hour, then drops to 8mA. Battery is still going strong at 5 years.
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics Yes I checked that BTW no clamp on but inline meter and let it sit hrs. I may remove all bulbs and put a 1 LED dome bulb, I think BCM is not fully closing lights but with a LED it may be ok, or BCM is drawing the xtra 70ma's. That's 1 fuse u can afford to leave out, Thanx.
That's a real mind bender, even the sensors don't quite behave themselves all the time. Lets hope a replacement engine computer will bring sanity :-D That fault would send me mad, sorry madder lol :-D
Very true.. but wait a minute, I think the CVT is going south. ( know the trucks use a regular trans (for now))... Maybe you can get a deal on 3 sensors, a computer and a new CVT trans. Very poor quality vehicles!!
@@anonymic79 What are you on about he's not on about the price of tea he's on about a CVT transmission witch as he clearly stated are made for small vehicles with quads and snowmobiles use I can't believe you don't know what a CVT is
@@anonymic79 Yah I'm old school I don't know nothing about quad's so if you have any tips for driving safely or how to drive if you're towing a trailer it would be greatly appreciated and tea ya only 2,3 Eures for a pack of 20 or 30 in Aldi yah CVT aren't my thing I hate them give me a stick shift anyday that's why when we bought a quad we bought a Honda trx250 because there electric shift car's are more my thing lad
Thanks fir all the knowledge I have a 2006 QX56 cranks and runs but a lot miss firing .im trying to finger out the problem coil packs been Chang spark plugs also but I’m starting to think it’s a injector or the computer
Don't know how or if, this could be done, but wouldn't it be cool to be able to have a way to ramp up voltage during cranking and graph where the injectors start firing .... Great video, BTW.
Great stuff, Ivan. Just to point out, this kind of problem cannot even be close to diagnosed without a scope, well, unless multiple parts cannons are fired. Just out of curiosity, have you tried a PCM reflash/software update, the reason I ask is a lot of vehicles have glitchy software that can cause issues, especially Euro vehicles... Yes, I am looking at you Mercedes and BMW!
Hey Ivan, Hopefully you won't find out it's not the ecu and it is the timing changed slightly as I found out in a 2007 Nissan frontier 2.5L engine. Watching this case was like a deja vu at my end as I went through the same exact concerns. good luck.
Had issues with Australian version of the D24 motor on Nissan with increased resistance on the ground causing exact same issue no start on cold mornings if you run a separate ground wire direct to battery it resolves itself maybe same problem maybe not
Did you test the wire harness for ohms? Sounds more like the wires are breaking down and hot and cold is effecting the signals. If replacing the ecm, I would do the entire harness also. Just in case.
Could there be a issue with a wire grounding out somewhere in the harness?or maybe an intermittent open wire.Since it 's so random i would suspect one of the wires feeding the ECM box.When i worked at NASA,once in awhile a ROCKET engine wouldn't fire up and my mechanics group would have to pull straws to see who would go out to the launch pad with a BIC LIGHTER to see it he could get it going.haha
I was looking at the dash during cranking and saw no tach movement, which lead me to think for no ckp signal, sometimes sensor fails but ecm does not detect it. Nissans are a problem, I did an Nissan Versa with a hard miss, are pulling my hair found out that ecm coil trigger was at fault. Thanks 👍
I suspect electrolytic caps going bad. I think the capacitor manufacturers are trying to cut cost. I have had older caps with the exact same part number be much better than a much newer cap with same part number.
Kucoal LED Rechargeable Headlamp,2-PACK Waterproof Flashlight Motion Sensor, on Amazon. Look into them, wave your hand in front and it turns on or off. Sweet deal. Not a sponsor. I just see you use headlamps too. Gotta see.
Hi Ivan, I have what seems to be this exact problem with my 2010 Frontier truck. have you followed up with this customer to find out if changing/repairing the ECM fixed the problem?
I believe what Ivan was doing was rechecking the vehicle for free simply because he called a bad cam sensor. The customer replaced it an the truck still wouldn’t start. In the customers eyes it was a misdiagnosis. Ivan simply made it right by rechecking it for free.
I would be curious to know if there is a voltage parasite draw somewhere on the system. electricity will go to the least resistance, his battery issues have me wondering . whats drawing the battery down, maybe a failing alternator? Ive seen cars with weak charging systems, or dying batteries start the car, but run like crap. Sometimes the injector pulse isnt there, sometimes cam system is screwy, just all over the place. just a lot of intermittent, variable malfunctioning going on. cold temps lower the power of a battery, they dont hold as much amperage as when hot. maybe hook a test light between the positive battery cable and the battery positive and see if the is a draw, and check output voltage and amps from alternator.. thats abt the peak of my troubleshooting capacity.,., lol
I'm having a similar problem with a lovely bmw. It sets random codes then its fine for 2 to 3 months. I record the codes after deleting i test drive nothing happened shows. After 3 months different codes same thing. Not to mention the customer said it was a flood car purchase. I dont even know where to start and he refuses to take it elsewhere. I really don't want to take this on because I know its going to be a on going headache Just from the codes. I'm getting no com, shift codes, body codes park assistant codes abs codes. I delete them nothing for 2 to 3 months then more codes. He doesn't have any driveability problems other the he say shifting issue but it's very random. It happens for about 5 mins once every 5 months.
10 year old capacitors in the ecm could be the problem. Old caps cause all sorts of failures. I can fix old computer monitors by just replacing the caps.. Nissan probably bought cheap caps back when these ecms were made.
Is anybody having this problem even if it’s above freezing? I originally was only having this problem below freezing but now I also get it even when it’s pretty warm, and it’s a very intermittent issue. I’ve had it not start when it was as warm as 60 degrees outside. I’ve also had it fire up great when it’s 30 degrees. Had a new ECM put in but I have not had new camshaft position sensors yet.
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Thanks very much for taking the time to record this 2 part series. I was very insightful. I have an '07 titan that I bought new, live in northern Minnesota and have never had this issue through 15 winters in which multiple -20F days per winter and a brutal -40F day a few years ago. The Titan fired up every time - until this morning! It was only about 0F (-18C) and it was the dreaded 'crank NO-START' phenomenon. I'm thankful I found this series of videos. I tried the cam sensor replacement and the truck did fire up and remain running but I don't think I'm out of the woods yet. Thanks again for this detailed look at the problem. Follow-up information below:
It was a bad ECM and I had to replace all three camshaft position sensors.
After I replaced the ECM, I was getting P0340 camshaft position sensor Bank A (drivers side) errors (even though the truck would start). I replaced the phase sensor (the one on the end of the block on the drivers side) first, cleared all codes and fired it up. Still got P0340 immediately. Then I replaced the camshaft position sensor on the drivers side top of the block, cleared all codes and fired it up. Got P1145 - camshaft position sensor issue on Bank B (passenger side). Replaced this camshaft position sensor (top of block on passenger side), cleared all codes and fired it up. No codes - no issues since.
Just because I'm too curious, after replacing all three camshaft position sensors I was wondering if it was the ECM or just the sensors. I put my original ECM back in the truck just to satisfy my curiosity - and - CRANK NO START was immediately experienced. That satisfied my curiosity that the ECM did need to be replaced as well. I re-installed my new ECM and the truck has been starting and running great ever since.
For those interested I installed the Duralast Camshaft Position Sensors SU5745 from Autozone. They were identical to the original sensors in my 2007 Titan.
If it didn't set any codes, then likely a ECM issue 👍
Iam having the exact same issue with my truck starts fine unless it's below freezing. Replaced cam and crank sensors with factory nissan stuff still doing the same thing no codes present. Where did you buy your ecm from
@@tommytwice1919 flagship one. I've bought 3 ecm modules from them. URL in my message above.
I’ve had this problem for two years but it was mainly only an issue in the winter so I just put up with it until recently when it got worse. Much diagnostic was done and parts replaced. I found another video where the mechanic discovered that the positive battery fusible link was bad and he replaced it. I inspected mine and observed that my battery fusible link was corroded. It was a $20 part with discount from Advance so I replaced it. No more issues!! She starts right up on frigid mornings and when parked for days. I would have the worst problems in cold mornings and if it sat for days without use. Just wanted to share this so that others can try this simple inexpensive solution first. I may do a video so that other Titan owners don’t throw away needless amounts of money on functioning parts.
Its all those bad Electrolytic Capacitors!! Just a thought... I see more and more problems with electronics starting at 5 years old depending on heat exposure. The liquid electrolyte dries and the ESR (equivalent series resistance) goes up. In other words, you start having inaccurate sensor values and random issues. Another great case study, Thanks Ivan!!
There might be more than just caps. It seems to me that the way of cost/profit optimization tries to cut every possible corner there is. I started to notice this first when reading camera specs - my old film camera (not a pro cam, mind you) was rated to work between -20 to 30 or 40C (and it did, I really went out to shoot at -22C). Newer consumer/amateur cameras (especialy because of their puny Li-batteries) - not so much. Lowest temperature - 0C or -5C. Thats it and even this seems to be overrated marketing wank because the number of frames drops like stone at cooler temps. Use external battery? Yes, it helps. But then you'll notice that backlights and/or LCD screens stop working etc.
Electronic components (chips, transistors) are binned and it goes from milspec to consumer grade. The latter being the cheapest but also the most crappiest (say - works ONLY at room temp, forget below freezing). Some factories experiment with newer tech, sometimes that does not stand the test of time. Some start to cut corners in existing production. Can't trust the solder used or boards themselves (board becoming conductive, microcracks in traces) etc etc.
So, I would not be surprised that some cars are built the same way.
also, microprocessors can become cold sensitive. I remember working on GM-900 clusters that were completely dead in cold weather. Blow hot air on the micro and they came alive.
ECM's are the only thing that has ever fixed these trucks for me, that and what I call TIPM's. Thanks Ivan.
Still an excellent case study that lead ultimately to the ECM . If the owner is smart he will take your recommendation and replace the other two cam sensors when the ECM is replaced. If I were him or her, I would not roll the bones on an unreliable vehicle, bite the bullet and fix it. GREAT case study.
My 87 hard body started that way for years, it would crank but only start when you let off the key, good to finally know what was happening
Thanks Ivan for another Curveball Diagnosis! Its getting to the point we are gonna have to charge more time for research and more for scopes to do our jobs. I don't think Amazon sells crystal balls to know what the diagnosis is in 30 minutes to and hour. Thanks for following up and being persistent. Keep them coming.
Wow put some supercaps on the battery to maintain voltage. LOL thanks Ivan.
When I dealt with Nissan the techs would say they are much like a Honda with all the quality removed 🤣, great content 👍.
Hi Ivan. Love your videos. On my sailboat, starting the engine causes a voltage drop that makes electronics like chartplotters restart, loosing data and needing for a minute or so while they reacquire satellites. I did everything I could to reduce the voltage drop but it was still a problem. So I added a Newmar Startguard. It's basically a little lead acid battery that holds up the voltage at the electronics when the start causes a drop in voltage everywhere else. Works great on a boat, maybe it has application in these trucks. Or at least use it as a diagnostic tool.
Ivan, this was a fabulous case study...great troubleshooting. Have a 2008 Pro4X HD that has the same issues. I can put a charger (trickle) on and will start right up...even in cold. I tried turning over with ether with no luck, changed out a new battery...same issue. I inherited this truck from my son (he took my tacoma) and have several electronic issues: rear cargo window would go down but not up and finally traced to a relay. AC/Heater motor has went out 2x. Windows mysteriously go down during the night. I don't drive it more than 4k a year. I don't think Ill ever buy a Titan!!!!!
There is bulletin on snap on. U might need pcm relay coz if voltage drops below 9’6 v the injectors will not pulse. The easiest way to check the ignition coil battery voltage while cranking. If it drops below 9.6 or less then check the battery first then the relay. Swap the defrost relay with pcm relay a nd see if starts right away
Voltage was good on all relay outputs; we proved that in Part 1 :)
How to fix a nissan Step 1 take the money you would use for repairs and use it as a down payment for something other than a Nissan. Step 2 sell the Nissan.
Man that was a tough diag... Be interesting to see that board under a microscope for a bad solder trace somewhere. Thanks Ivan!
Microprocessors can be cold-sensitive too. I fixed many instrument clusters that were stone dead on cold mornings. Change the micro, units were good to go.
Very interesting diagnosis, Ivan! What's interesting is....say you had a battery tamer on it so the battery didn't die during your service time. This would create your typical battery voltage and the truck would fire up. But then, you could still get a call back as the owner drove it from day to day. If you were constantly in the habit of hooking a battery charger on it from the get-go, you might miss this one! Awesome job, as always!
Thank you for taking the time to post those videos, my son in law has been battling this exact same problem. We have tried and tried to figure it out. Great work!!
94 f-50 no start, good crank. Injection pulse 4ms cold replace Ecm long before I knew about loading circuits.
To test I would pull the fuse to the ECU's ignition feed and feed a separate 12V source to it. If the symptoms are not reproducible after that, a semi ghetto but possible fix may be to add a *super capacitor* bank (~$60 on ebay) to the ignition feed going into the ECU. Splice in the cap bank in parallel with the + feed wire. Use a 10W ~20-30 ohm resistor leading to the cap bank for limiting in-rush current and a couple ~15A schottky diodes (1 after the caps and the other in line directly to the ECU) to limit back feeding to the battery. Finally, add a relay to the Neg of the cap bank, activated by the Pos feed of the Ign wire or the circuit will stay live even after the engine is turned off. May need to leave the key in the Run position a moment before attempting to crank so the caps can charge up. A "Russian" repair for sure but relatively cheap option in contrast to replacing/repairing the ECU. Just use some spade terminals or whatever when doing the wiring so it can easily be restored back to factory if it gets repaired proper down the line.
That would be an interesting experiment! Even just add the ability to power the ECU off a separate car battery as a test. Good idea! That would definiitively determine whether the ECU is going stupid during cranking and reduced B+ voltage.
That right there would be a proper Russian repair!
Nearing 100,000 subs! Congratulations!
I’m sure it’s the Borsch recipe that did it.....
Hope that it will not change.
Good to know. I have 2 friends that have these Titans.
@@mejesse809 hater detected.
@@mejesse809 who is bernie?
Very educational!! Thank u for your tenacity!!
I'm glad you enjoy the process, Bill :)
I'm calling it, moisture under the distributor cap!
I have the exact same problem on an 07 armada. I have done all the same tests with the same results except the cam position sensor. It has the same reading with the scope where it’s dropping down and the second it flips up it starts right up. The only thing I cannot reproduce is having the signal stay correctly up and not start. I have tried heating up the pcm and it did not seem to make a difference. Other than getting a perfect wave from the cam sensor I’m thinking the same thing that the pcm is bad. Also when scanning it there are no codes. I’m not sure yet if replacing the pcm will fix it but thank you for the video it definitely helped with such a weird diagnosis!
“Update” I ordered a replacement pcm from flagship one. A side note on that it came with bent pins and one pushed in. I did get them straightened out and I will have to see how they want to handle that. As far as the pcm goes it does work and fixed the no start when cold. I also replaced all three cam sensors with the 9th revision ones straight from the dealer so hopefully they fixed whatever the issue was with the previous 8 revisions.
Combination meters are a very common issue for cold weather starting issues on Titans. Also, I had a Titan where the ECM calculated voltage was reading ~6v higher than actual. 12v at the battery showed as 18v in the ECM, causing a crank no start. ECM replacement fixed the customer's vehicle.
I have a 2009 Titan with the same problem. The previous owner said that the dealer installed a rebuilt computer to fix the problem last winter ($900). Then spring arrived and it warmed up. This winter it wouldn't start below about +22F. I Installed a new 750CCA battery and now it's good down to approx +15F but I can start it at any temperature with a high capacity car starter.
That was weird diagnosis to find. I'm shocked that it's the computer this time but you caked it cam sensor. Hopefully there'll be part 3. Lol
Great job tough one for sure.
Good job! TIP: The new style of sensors used on Nissan/Infiniti are those round metal looking ones. NEVER buy those aftermarket cheap, 3 sensors for $40. They will fail in a very short time after installation. Avoid counterfeit parts and buy from trusted reliable sources also.
IMHO, very few if any ECMs will work properly if the battery voltage drops down to 8.0V during starting. Some where, the power supply in the PCM will re-start the CPU. It takes a few microseconds before the software is running and can fire an injector or spark plug.
I have seen on Ford products where on processor (air bag) will have a slightly higher "drop out" voltage. This will give you an air bag warning light, but if you shut the engine off and restart it goes away. This could be similar in that another module is not happy at low voltages even though the ECM is !
(FYI - 30 years ago, in the early days of EFI, there was extra circuitry in some ECMs that would fire the injectors under low voltage conditions before the software "woke up" !)
That's a good 1! Save those waveforms. I agree that 10v cranking is plenty, even 8 or 9. In my experience only VWs are very sensitive to lower cranking voltage, needing about 9 to 10V + in some models before they will start, regardless of cranking rpm. Should not be so on that Nissan. I also agree, 3 new CMP sensors because you've proven something is going on there and we already know these are high failure prone parts.
I would clean/check the integrity of the ECM connector, wiggle wires monitoring wave pulses and have a can of freeze spray on hand. The diagnosis does however seem to indicate solder connectivity issues or thermal breakdown of an ECM component.
I had a similar problem with a ldv maxus van were it won't start unless you jump start it and no one could figure it out. So one day I was looking around the engine bay and noticed there was a piece of rust only about 2 sheets of paper thin between the sensor and the block after giving it a good sand down it started right up. But it didn't have and symptoms of a bad crank sensor, we had rpm and we had a wave form but it turns out the ecu needs a 3 volt peak to peak signal and it was only a 2 volt peak to peak signal so that bit of paper thin rust made all the difference
Great find!
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics Thank you, I learnt most of my diagnostic skills from watching your videos. Keep up the amazing work 👍
What happens when you heat up the ECM with a heatgun? Does it fires up all the time with a "warmed" ECM. Then you know you are right for sure.
Put an oil pan heater on the ecm. Problem gone.. lol
LOL
Don't buy newer cars and trucks. Problem solved. Keep the old out of the junk yard and refurbish them and you'll have dependability back again.
Nice. Thanks Ivan!
Another crazy case study. Still waingt to check out the camaro with new pressure transducer.
Great video Ivan. Next move is you need to get hold of Bernie Thompson.
Take it to Autozone . they can hook up their code reader and tell you what to buy😄😄. Don't need fancy smancy scope dope. They have. Crystal ball...
Too bad that they won't find any CODES hahaha
I thought it looked like the SES light was flashing oddly during crank.
I think the sensors are fine. I worked with some wheel sensors recently that was doing that at time. I think it have something to do with residual magnetism in the pickup. Once you get it going fast enought or for long enought the signal revert back to normal.
Sounds like a possible bad solder joint to me, they will very often play up in cold conditions - the metal or the board contracts when cold. Could even be a crack in a surface mount capacitor. Not easy to find on a modern smd computer board. One possible way of finding it would be to use some good old freeze spray, freeze certain parts of the board until hopefully you find it.
There's nothing worse than going down a big rabbit hole I had a few experiences like that myself it's just a big waste of time and the go kart still wasn't fixed until I found out it's a stuck power button and boom it fired right up
great stuff Ivan thanks so much
Between watching Ivan and Eric O,I've come to the conclusion that Scotty is actually right! But a Toyota! 😂
Ebay has a bunch of them. But they know what there worth apparently, they are not cheap. I bought a refurbished one from a company for a dodge stratus and had good luck so far with it.
Great information but I did notice that the check engine light was flickering wend you were starting it
Have the mysterious no start also,in good weather, modified cat converters show po420 & po430 periodically,but not related to nostart.Cant find wiring issues or in IPDM unit internally.I just clear codes under dash once a week to solve problem for now.
Ivan, Recap the ECU. Those ten year old capacitors will fail when cold and work when warm. Classic electrolytic cap failure mode. Recap the ECU. But first look for leakage and corrosion on the board around the caps and check for a fishy odor when you un-solder them. If there is a lot of leakage or some PCB traces are corroded away or blackened then just trash the box. It will never be right again if that happened. In that case even a competent rebuilder will not try to save it.
Привет Иван! Случай распространенный. Встречал на русскоязычных форумах информацию, что это проблема не в ECM. Данные о напряжении, поступают из другого блока! Прошло много времени, я плохо помню. Речь шла о блоке управления кондиционером или BCM. Для подтверждения этого диагноза, подключают дополнительный аккумулятор на выход втягивающего реле стартера.
I've had a few of those crank no start be a weak battery.. Even if it cranks strong the pcm doesn't fire the injectors.. New battery fixes it.. But I did have one that was an intermittent crank no start no injection pulse be a bad pcm..all a variation of the nissan 5.6l armada or titan
Ivan another good video. Thank you for the update. Much appreciated. Is owner changing the computer now or waiting for the cold weather? Stay safe and well Artie 😊
I'd put a small SLA in just to power the ECU with it charging of the alternator through a diode. No voltage drop to ECU when cranking.
You were correct in part 1. when you called the ECM bad. I guess they are so damned
expensive you were being cautious. It would definitely suck if you went with your gut
only to find out the problem lies elsewhere
Man, that was a tough one! Strange failure mode for a computer, for sure. I haven't been a big fan of any Nissan products in the 21st Century. They always seem to be a PITA, lol.
Don't digital ecms needat least 10 volts to operate? Maybe ahead gun to warm ecm may verify cold problem on ecm. You are awsome,awesome, and diagnosing.
Just found an extra 70 ma total 130ma on my 2010 nissan Altima, cause is room lamps i.e. interior lights 10 amp fuse pulled ok now. So looks like bad BCM, also checked lights under cover for visor mirrors was not issue. Anyone else have this? Car always started in FL but batteries lasts 9-12 months, to many deep cycles overnite...
Nissans take a while to go to sleep. My Wife's Rogue stays at 90mA for about half an hour, then drops to 8mA. Battery is still going strong at 5 years.
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics Yes I checked that BTW no clamp on but inline meter and let it sit hrs. I may remove all bulbs and put a 1 LED dome bulb, I think BCM is not fully closing lights but with a LED it may be ok, or BCM is drawing the xtra 70ma's. That's 1 fuse u can afford to leave out, Thanx.
That's a real mind bender, even the sensors don't quite behave themselves all the time.
Lets hope a replacement engine computer will bring sanity :-D
That fault would send me mad, sorry madder lol :-D
During this truck's no-start "fits", perhaps I would have used a hair dryer and blown hot air on the ECM box to see if it "woke up".
Getting famous off of comments day 295, so I can live the dream, live every day like it’s your last🤙🚀🤙
Voltage drop to the ECM? How about a dc buck converter to maintain 14.4 volts?
Amazing diagnosis !!! Did you give the ecm the ol' tap, tap, tap ? 👍👍
Cap and a diode on the ecu power feed? Would be a fun experiment for the right person....
That flashing check engine light while cranking!? Maybe it was a camera illusion
Please consider the odd cam anomalies may be normal on a vvt engine before oil psi locks the cam phaser.
Wonder whether it would start if you used a heat gun to warm up just the ECM. Weird problem. Thanks for the case study, Ivan!
3 sensors and an ECM...man that is expensive just in parts. I have never this happen with any Toyota I have owned.
Very true.. but wait a minute, I think the CVT is going south. ( know the trucks use a regular trans (for now))... Maybe you can get a deal on 3 sensors, a computer and a new CVT trans. Very poor quality vehicles!!
@@Ram14250 cv transmissions were designed for very small light cars. Not for large vehicles. They all suck
@@The_Sword3 Yah like ATVs and moterbike
@@anonymic79 What are you on about he's not on about the price of tea he's on about a CVT transmission witch as he clearly stated are made for small vehicles with quads and snowmobiles use I can't believe you don't know what a CVT is
@@anonymic79 Yah I'm old school I don't know nothing about quad's so if you have any tips for driving safely or how to drive if you're towing a trailer it would be greatly appreciated and tea ya only 2,3 Eures for a pack of 20 or 30 in Aldi yah CVT aren't my thing I hate them give me a stick shift anyday that's why when we bought a quad we bought a Honda trx250 because there electric shift car's are more my thing lad
Thanks fir all the knowledge I have a 2006 QX56 cranks and runs but a lot miss firing .im trying to finger out the problem coil packs been Chang spark plugs also but I’m starting to think it’s a injector or the computer
See if the misfires are contained to only certain cylinders, or random...
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics it was random cylinders
Don't know how or if, this could be done, but wouldn't it be cool to be able to have a way to ramp up voltage during cranking and graph where the injectors start firing .... Great video, BTW.
Add a battery haha
From part 1...What a nasty issue this needs part 2. Cold solder joints on the cpm or aging capacitors.
Great stuff, Ivan. Just to point out, this kind of problem cannot even be close to diagnosed without a scope, well, unless multiple parts cannons are fired. Just out of curiosity, have you tried a PCM reflash/software update, the reason I ask is a lot of vehicles have glitchy software that can cause issues, especially Euro vehicles... Yes, I am looking at you Mercedes and BMW!
It's probably a bad capacitor in the computer cold effects charge
Hey Ivan, Hopefully you won't find out it's not the ecu and it is the timing changed slightly as I found out in a 2007 Nissan frontier 2.5L engine. Watching this case was like a deja vu at my end as I went through the same exact concerns. good luck.
You're right, ECM is not the problem! On the forums on the net, there is information ...
was sleeping on you thank you.
Nissan not the company it was in the past. Never will spend my money on of their products.
Had issues with Australian version of the D24 motor on Nissan with increased resistance on the ground causing exact same issue no start on cold mornings if you run a separate ground wire direct to battery it resolves itself maybe same problem maybe not
Did you test the wire harness for ohms? Sounds more like the wires are breaking down and hot and cold is effecting the signals. If replacing the ecm, I would do the entire harness also. Just in case.
Ivan zdorovo, skagi pogakusta kakuyu model ti ispolzuesh "Pico" i laptop.Zaranee spasibo.
Could there be a issue with a wire grounding out somewhere in the harness?or maybe an intermittent open wire.Since it 's so random i would suspect one of the wires feeding the ECM box.When i worked at NASA,once in awhile a ROCKET engine wouldn't fire up and my mechanics group would have to pull straws to see who would go out to the launch pad with a BIC LIGHTER to see it he could get it going.haha
Like #183
Thanks for the video!
I was looking at the dash during cranking and saw no tach movement, which lead me to think for no ckp signal, sometimes sensor fails but ecm does not detect it.
Nissans are a problem, I did an Nissan Versa with a hard miss, are pulling my hair found out that ecm coil trigger was at fault. Thanks 👍
Great job. Didn't you originally call a ECM and then change your mind after further testing?
That's right...had to circle back lol
I suspect electrolytic caps going bad. I think the capacitor manufacturers are trying to cut cost. I have had older caps with the exact same part number be much better than a much newer cap with same part number.
I would try to recap the computer and reflow whatever solder I could before spending money on a new one.
Problem is that most ECMs are potted in epoxy now, and nearly impossible to get to the board to do anything......
Kucoal LED Rechargeable Headlamp,2-PACK Waterproof Flashlight Motion Sensor, on Amazon. Look into them, wave your hand in front and it turns on or off. Sweet deal. Not a sponsor. I just see you use headlamps too. Gotta see.
Hi Ivan, I have what seems to be this exact problem with my 2010 Frontier truck. have you followed up with this customer to find out if changing/repairing the ECM fixed the problem?
Doctors wouldn't give a free second look. And they have a easier Job. Atleast the person can tell them what still hurts
I believe what Ivan was doing was rechecking the vehicle for free simply because he called a bad cam sensor. The customer replaced it an the truck still wouldn’t start. In the customers eyes it was a misdiagnosis. Ivan simply made it right by rechecking it for free.
They do charge a lot more per visit LOL
And they do work on the same model all the time
easier job? doctors deal with people's lives not piles of metal
Try taking the ecu out and put it in the freezer for a bit and see if it still won't start.
That would be a good thing to try in the summer!
Sounds like my issue with my 07 Maxima...
I would be curious to know if there is a voltage parasite draw somewhere on the system. electricity will go to the least resistance, his battery issues have me wondering . whats drawing the battery down, maybe a failing alternator? Ive seen cars with weak charging systems, or dying batteries start the car, but run like crap. Sometimes the injector pulse isnt there, sometimes cam system is screwy, just all over the place. just a lot of intermittent, variable malfunctioning going on. cold temps lower the power of a battery, they dont hold as much amperage as when hot. maybe hook a test light between the positive battery cable and the battery positive and see if the is a draw, and check output voltage and amps from alternator.. thats abt the peak of my troubleshooting capacity.,., lol
It didn't look like the tach was moving at all during cranking also
Did they ever replace the ECM?
I'm having a similar problem with a lovely bmw. It sets random codes then its fine for 2 to 3 months. I record the codes after deleting i test drive nothing happened shows. After 3 months different codes same thing. Not to mention the customer said it was a flood car purchase. I dont even know where to start and he refuses to take it elsewhere. I really don't want to take this on because I know its going to be a on going headache Just from the codes. I'm getting no com, shift codes, body codes park assistant codes abs codes. I delete them nothing for 2 to 3 months then more codes. He doesn't have any driveability problems other the he say shifting issue but it's very random. It happens for about 5 mins once every 5 months.
10 year old capacitors in the ecm could be the problem. Old caps cause all sorts of failures. I can fix old computer monitors by just replacing the caps.. Nissan probably bought cheap caps back when these ecms were made.
Is anybody having this problem even if it’s above freezing? I originally was only having this problem below freezing but now I also get it even when it’s pretty warm, and it’s a very intermittent issue. I’ve had it not start when it was as warm as 60 degrees outside. I’ve also had it fire up great when it’s 30 degrees. Had a new ECM put in but I have not had new camshaft position sensors yet.
Guys we an 8 channels scope upgrade 😀
What he did to his car he Changed the ECM and is good now ?
I have the same problem no RPM random starting, new battery but when I put the jump box on the battery Starts right up so Weird .
Cold solder joints (cracked) are problematic in every industry that employs flow-solder manufacturing.
I have no idea...Entertaining though-Sort of.
The 507 code just need to clean the throttle body
That's a common problem on Nissan's