4x4 Soft Shackles vs Bow (Steel) Shackles
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 10 มิ.ย. 2019
- Soft shackles are becoming more and more popular on the 4x4/overlanding scene. More companies are making soft shackles then ever before, gator jaw, factor 55, roadsafe, bubba rope, to name a few.
But are soft shackles better for 4wd recoveries the then good ole steel bow shackle that has been around since the birth of 4wds and people getting bogged.
In this video we talk about the pros and cons of both!
Unsealed 4x4 Destruction Shackle test
• The Recovery Shackle D...
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Not all load factors were consider in this video for the sake of simplicity, i.e. friction, load angle factor angles on the shackles etc. The information should be used only as a guide, refer to your manufacturers manuals for the recovery gear you have. - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
"It's no joke guys"
SMILES UNCONTROLLABLY
I thought that too. LOL
Lmao, homie held that smile the whole 27:09.
Sadly the industry has become plagued with marketing BS and companies gouging money out of people. It refreshing and lovely to here someone speak facts and practicality. Thank You.
You are so right, I see so much crap been advertised as better then the simple cheaper and more reliable items I use for 40 years. A good example is the rope in place of wire rope, I am still using my 8000 lb cable and it never ever broke. Yet so many guys have to replace their rope on the winch and even take a spare. lol All this BS is just grabbing the money from the young and foolish that no longer listen to their elders.
@@breadcrums7853 ...you're using wire cable ? I was wondering about the rope being better than wire. doesn't make sense to me. ( i.e...I think I would rather wire). I've seen tests done with a bulldozer testing wire cables with a lot of maniquins strategically placed, bags and whatnot lain over the cable and they didn't seem to be much help....to the maniquins. (don't know if I spelt that right). Would that winch dampener do the same job with a wire cable ?
@@breadcrums7853 the wire rope kinks and corrodes proper rigging and care goes a long way with both rope and cable
People have also been killed by steel shackles and cables that snap while synthetic is much safer... When off-roading the extra safety is definitely a plus considering there are often situations that are far less than ideal for recovery and everything can't be done perfectly.... Also rope on a winch has many benefits mostly that you're not going to get a bird's nest and you don't need to keep tension on the line so you can do a lot more with snatch blocks etc much easier and it's much lighter
Also sideloading shackles can be bad which is often hard to avoid when off-roading
"It's rated to go into the bin!". Love it. Well spoken.
a rope like that has a LOT of uses... i'm cynical of anyone who says that. I wouldn't hang my life on it more than a moment, but it's good for a ton (literally) of other things.
Mate you're heaps smarter than those dudes who cut the sleeves off their shirts. Love your down to earth explanations. Cheers.
Those 2 with their sleeves cut off are a pair of clowns!!
@@ellaausic7388 who are they? I’m new to off-roading therefore I want to know who to listen to, thanks.
Definatley the smartest 4X4 TH-camr by far! Good work on the explanations mate!
Is he the only one? never see another soul in his videos lol
Definatley
Excellent tutorial. You're a born teacher, you know your subject and know how to present it. Love your emphasis on safety.
Your videos are simple straightforward and full of information. On behalf of me and my friends who are relatively new to off-roading we've learnt heaps from you and would like to thank you very much. We look forward to seeing your new videos every time.
I am not a car guy. I am a sailor. I use synthetic line in a whole other manner, but am very familiar with engineering of high loads with synthetic and metal rigging components and I must say I agree with everything you just said. I will add tho, you did not mention side load issues of metal shackles that can break them at lower loads than rated breaking loads. Synthetic soft shackles won’t have that problem. Cheers!
what do you mean by side load?
@@TheCls63 I believe what he is referring to is if you are pulling on the shackle from an angle or from one side rather than pulling from straight on
bob roger metal shackles aren’t made to be pulled in another manner than one direction. Soft shackles are your fix. Sailor here as well and soft shackles are awesome for sailing applications.
@@TheCls63 if you look at the rigging charts for a shackle (any good brand will have them), they will show the maximum load capacity for a straight pull, and also how much it derates as your leg angle increases, or you get into side pulls.
For instance, picture a shackle mounted to a bumper, with the pin through a thick metal plate and the bow hanging free.
If you put a strap on and pull straight, 90 degrees to the bumper, like pulling it out of a muddy rut, you have the maximum strength as stamped on the shackle
But if it has slid off the side of a hill, and now you are pulling from the side, instead of pulling straight on the pin, you are now trying to twist the pin, and only loading one side of the bow.
Now you lose most of the rated capacity because you are side loading it.
Never double load the pin 👍🏻
This was virtually one of the best virtual videos talking about virtual situations with virtual equipment I've ever seen. :D ;)
jedironin380 lol
Virtually the best comment here.
Same
That's virtually what i thought too.
Ic Ic to get
You have to be the best presenter of products and information with a great way of projecting your voice. I will be looking for more of your presentations. Regards IGGIE.
Brilliant explanation. Passed onto my son who is new to 4 wheel driving
Jesus. This guy let's more knowledge go as an aside to his core point (planning winching rig around weak links, etc.) than most youtubers put in their whole videos.
Awesome vid! Not only because you explained best practices but because you explained why. Extremely helpful.
I always love watching the mechanics of recovery and loved the science of it too. Thanks Michael for another terrific, informative and interesting video. Cheers.
Thanks for taking all the extra time to run through diff scenarios. It is VERY much appreciated.
Really well produced, complete and above all, correct. The on screen annotations should quieten even the most ardent disbelievers.
Dropping mad science! I don't think I ever have any questions left at the end of your videos. ;)
Awesome instructional video. Thanks so such. Keep up the great work. Cheers. Jeff👍😀
Good to see you paid attention to your maths teacher, another great video👍
So good to hear real figures. Great job. Great channel.
9:45
Matts Offroad Towing and Recvery: Yeah I'm gonna do that.
He uses like 20+ ton boat ropes and steel chains though, not these garbage flat straps.
@@DavidVoxDem he uses kinetic snatch ropes with a max breaking strength of 25,600 pounds.
I like to keep a couple extra soft shackles in my truck’s everyday recovery kit, because in the winter time (I’m in the US) when we get snow and the idiots who don’t know how to drive get stuck and block my route I need to move them and there is often no good recovery point and if there is you’re usually not going to be able to get a bow/ D-Ring shackle in it. So a soft shackle with a wear sleeve makes more recoveries possible.
Drew w any idea where I can get a wear sleeve? I've looked on Amazon but couldn't find them - I don't think I was using the right search terms.
@@cosmokenney I just bought some cheapies with wear sleeves and an extra one per shackle smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B07MDZ8PFN/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o07_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Wear sleeves, have you tried;
a) electrical Empire Sleeving,
b) to sew your own, or tried to just use
c.1) plain heat shrink or c.2) electrical Nitto tape ?
I've never used a soft shackle in person, on a video they look like if you lose tension in the line they could come undone - that the knot could pop out as easy as it pops in. Is that not a concern?
@@alkaholic4848 nah they don’t come undone that easy. There is enough friction in the way they loop the Knot/ball through the shackle itself that it’ll hold even with no tension on it. You can snug up the “hole” around the base of the ball when you put it through. Also the diameter of the hole is not much bigger than the knot. But yes there is a chance it could come undone with no tension on it, but that would probably come down to user error and not having the knot all the way through the hole. The Synthetic line used to make them is a good bit stiffer than it looks in pictures and videos, very flexible but not exactly a limp noodle. I have never seen one come undone without human aide.
One of your best videos yet, awesome work - thankyou.
Awesome informative video cobba! Been binge-watching your videos and rate the way you present stuff and yourself! Giving me more motivation!
explained it very well Michael, some top advice, love the remote winch
Outstanding explanation! Can't tell you how many arguments stuck I've tried to drive it into stubborn heads about simple physics.
Great job explaining recovery and including safety points
Just wanted to say thanks. Has to be the best video on recovery issues that I've watched! Very well presented and easy to understand. Thanks
What a super video. Very easily understood. Many Thanks Nick from UK
This is BETTER than the Learning Channel.......THANKS BRO!!!!
Thanks so much for your attention to SAFE use of these things! Thorough, informative, very helpful video. Especially love your showing a practical use for physics and math 😊
This was a great refresher. Thank you for giving up your time to make this.
"if it doesn't hurt you, it might kill you" 😂
Well done mate, Very instructive,
you can tell you've put a lot of effort and research on making the Video.
Great video and explanation!!! Loved the way you say "never ever ever"!!!
Fascinating video---learned a few things about rigging et al I never knew---or sadly never considered. Kudos for sharing your knowledge M8!
Brilliantly done, clear concise explanation & examples. Your a master of the KISS principle. Good on ya! Subscribed.
Absolute gold mate! Thank you
Love your teaching method by adding the math and physics in situations. I did not know that the farther tree would be a better choice when you have a weaker winch it seems like something to always keep in mind. Thanks.
Mate, big thank you, brilliant video, as always. You are making learning and growing my 4wd skills a lot easier, safer and just plain fun.
That was great, one of the best I've seen.
there is no way i would be using a soft shackle on the sharp metal edges of that snatch block. great work keep it up
If it is all you had, one would need to apply a 'stress concentration' safety factor to it, to me, 2:1 seems reasonable, also if the setup was stressed to the limit of the wench, I would very carefully inspect the soft shackle for any fiber damage.
Awesome tutorial!! A newbie like me is really learning alot from your outdoor classroom. Thank you mate and keep up the great videos.
Excellent recovery tutorial, beyond the coverage of the shackles. Well done!
I think most of the danger is kneeling in sand with shorts on in Austraila.
You're right, they have the deadliest snakes and spiders in the world. Lions and Tigers, oh my, oh my!
Its alot worse at the 4wd nudist camp
😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣
"Sand will cover this place. Sand will cover you."
Even the SAND is tryin to kill you!
Thanks for all the clever explanations and amazing presentations! Cheers mate :)
An outstanding video, with clear explanations, visual aids, and rationales for each configuration. Very educational and well done. Cheers from Canada.
This is an EXCELLENT video! I'm researching a winch purchase and recovery gear, and I appreciate your approach and explanation. Thank you for such an informative and substantial covering of this topic!
Best video on this subject I have ever seen...
Keep in mind, recovery straps and rope need to be clean, if they are lodged with dirt it can damage them
Greetings from California! I just happened upon your channel while watching overlanding vids, and really like your content. Nice, simple yet thorough explanations of everything. Keep it up.
Best explanation (and comparison) I have seen to date!
When using an “equalizer strap”, as you called it, make sure you don’t create a short triangle bridle. If you hook a short chain between your hooks, then pull from that, you create huge forces pulling the hooks together. If it’s straight across, the initial force is near infinite. There used to be a lot of old trucks with two tow hooks bent toward each other. It bends the frame, if it doesn’t snap your chain.
Yours is great, at about 6 feet plus each leg, that’s plenty. I probably wouldn’t use a tree saver for that, or you might be too short.
That's the same reason you want to watch the angle off the tree, too wide and your sling starts lose strength
Yea Good Work Bud ! Clear and informative , Thanks for sharing. :)
That's a double rad...👍👍...One of the best tip tech talks on recovery I've seen...
By far the clearest and most comprehensive video I’ve seen so far (& I’ve have been training 4x4 recovery for 30 years!) Looking forward to viewing more of your videos, from here in Wales! 🏴
Great video well done very informative
Like the soft shackles but good to see you explaining the positives of the old shackle and there not bothered by sharp edges which could effect the soft shackle rendering it useless if care is not taken
Cheers
Michael, only you can make such an utterly fascinating tutorial on bow, soft shackles and wench use!!
I really don't think he's going to show you the use of his wench in the tutorial!
You've taken your videos up a few notches. Really good. Learnt some new stuff.
Thanks!!!! You've helped us out tremendously!
mate your gonna be the next presenter for 4wd action if your not careful, keep up the good work.
To reduce wear & tear on soft shackles run them threw a piece of garden hose to protect it.
Awesome tip
Hey yeah, nice idea. I guess old bicycle inner tube would work too.
Cary Wood j
I usually don't like long videos but you presented this very well with good reasoning. Thank you.
Awesome effort on the vids mates, the quality and information shines through.
Great video mate way to much fluff getting around at the moment with people pushing them soft shackles. Bow shackles been used safely by responsible people for decades!
LSgemini * agreed. My steel shackles don’t care about sharp edges, uv light, mud, or hot exhaust pipes, it’ll be around long after I’m gone.
Bow shackles have also killed plenty of people
My Mrs loves the Soft Shackles
Where ?
Giggidy
Not what she tells me...
Fast Farmer Yeah but she always tells a different story when it's her son
Thank you for this information! Safety is key when getting out of a potentionally dangerous situation.
Great information and advice. Thank you Michael
10:55 Watch out mate, got a crab creepin up on ya 6. 🦀😳
@Seek Adventure
Great video as always. Just one point on the snatch block use, while it does double the strength of the rope technically to 16t, it will always snap at the centre of the pulley wheel at a pulling force of only 8t. This is due to the rope being pulled in both directions at once with the load (pulling the vehicle & the winch pulling) and creates the highest strain point right in the centre of that pulley as the breaking point is only 8t on the rope in a single run - and that is all there is on the pulley. Unfortunately it is not fully understood by 99.9% of people. A snatch block is really good for under-powered winches and gives you a 2:1 Mechanical Advantage.
Keep up the great work, always enjoy the content.
You're wrong about the force being doubled. It's no more likely to break at the pulley than anywhere else. I had to do some research to confirm this because intuitively what you say makes sense, but the doubled force supported by the pulley is transmitted to the wheel of the pulley by the side of the rope in compression, the tension in the rope stays equal throughout the entire rope in a pulley system.
Easily the best video i have seen on this subject. Great work!
try this one th-cam.com/video/66BXmM_JuBI/w-d-xo.html
Great to finally see a video with all the facts on those soft shackle !! And perfect description on when to use each !
In summary, Bow Shackle are cheaper, stronger and require some common sense recovery thought.
But there's no chance of a soft shackle be coming a projectile that kills your buddy through his windshield
Amen. Recovery is rigging performed horizontally. Its not the wing of the space shuttle, use your noggin. Avoid harbor freight, seek out Crosby hardware, ask the old timers what works.
The weakest point, the most unknown, the major point of failure... The tree, the anchore point!
The weakest point is always the operator. 🤔😁
I am searching You tube for days to find something’ like this but everybody is just trying the sell the damn soft shackles.The reason this is such a great video is he is not trying to sell us a thing just an honest review and demo. Thanks
After watching this video, I liked and subscribed immediately! This video is filled with very useful and functional information. I'm looking forward to watching more so keep up the great work!!
Good info. Another thing worth mentioning is side loading bow shackles (don't do it) however if you're using a bridal strap (tree strap) you can be in a situation where the shackle is slightly side loaded. This cuts down the load rating of the shackle. Up to 50% with a 90° sideload. Depending on the manufacturer of the shackle they'll have a chart with this info. Here's a chart for better explanation from one manufacturer:
www.lift-it.com/database/wysiwyg/images/212c.jpg
Great vid! Been trying to explain to softshackle experts that they are not indeed stronger than steel. Although I do have some softies rated to 24t MBS. 23:00 Its very likely that that soft shackle would fail being used on that steel snatch block. There isnt a big enough radius and the corners are too sharp. Once you got up to around 4 - 5 tonnes of pressure, maybe less, it would be cut like a knife Would have been good to see the soft shackle paired with one of the new snatch rings which are far safer than the steel snatch block. Although I 100% agree best practice on a steel snatch block is a steel bow shackle. Really enjoying your videos!
I agree , they need to increase the side radius on the snatch block
Learned a lot watching this video and others. Glad I found your channel.
What a good, clear authentic presenter you are. The explanations are easily understood, including the application of maths to calculate loads. I'm now looking for that angle measuring app!
“Destruction Test”... 🤗 *click, boom, gone*
No, seriously mate, good vid!
“ARB don’t tell you what their rating is, breaking strain or SWL is..... but they do say it’s rated for 8000kg recovery “
FFS 🤦🏻♂️
I know right, I think it's all to do with liability, they don't want to say it what the recovery points MBS or SWL is to cover themselves I think 😂
This is an awesome video. I finally have a better understanding of how all of this works. Many thanks from Canada. Subscribed!
Brilliant video mate. Very well explained.
You haven't doubled the strength of the rope, you have halved (ignoring friction) the strain.
Spot on 🙂 Halved the strain, so now it can take double the load
One would think that the red recovery point, would have rounded edges to protect the rope shackle. That's a dumb design fault ARB.
you might want to rethink that
@@MrAfwarren Okay, that "might " be a dumb design fault? Educate me.Don't just leave me hanging.
The point isnt designed for soft shackles. They weren't around when designing. Also rounded corners lowers the internal area of it greatly reducing the amount the point can take
@@MrAfwarren Hi, Thanks. I think when I wrote " rounded edges" , I was meaning just give it a chamfer ( carpenter speak) , basically take the sharpish edge off it. A 2mm chamfer wouldn't compromise it's structural integrity ( and that would only need doing at the front /pull part). :)
Unfortunately it actually would every little bit matters with those types of things. Also increasedthe cost of tooling would make the product even more expensive
This was really informative and well put together. Your really good at making videos
Wonderfully entertaining and helpful! Thank you for this video!
The fact that the bow shackle could potentially kill a person if/when it breaks is the only reason a guy needs to use soft shackles whenever possible. No amount of durability or strength is worth risking someone's life.
Failure of a soft shackle due to wear can also have fatal consequences. You should consider what you’re using each time you rig - not just default to one or the other.
Stealing rohny Dahl’s videos
Not at all! To me this is more structured and informative and clearly comes from someone who has experience and uses his brain to put things in order (Nothing against Ronny Dahls videos). This is clearly not stolen or copied - just the same topic worked on by a great guy.
nothing like ronnys videos. same good info. Just a bit more tech info vs the more basic info ronny had or just presented in a different way. We all learn or care to listen to different levels of information.
Great video mate, I found the part at 3:15 about safety factors really interesting. Learnt something new, cheers!
Full of useful information. Very well presented. As a bonus he always smiles while he talks! Fantastic mate!
Without a doubt the best explanation of using a winch and shackles and so forth that I have ever seen. Extremely complete explanation
I literally just was thinking about wanting to see a video comparing these two things today and here it is in my feed.
Thanks mate for your advice you made it really simple to understand
Very helpful information specially for people like me getting in the 4wd world now
What a professionally explained video. Wow, great job! Thank you!
Explained this video to perfection but love your videos thanks🤙🏽
Thanks. I needed a reminder that I was being lazy to hook up. I needed that refresh safety. Thank again
Another great vid! Learning new and refreshing old knowledge. Well presented and easy to understand.