What Went Wrong With The Star Wars Sequels?
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 25 ก.ค. 2024
- Taking a look at why the Star Wars Sequel Trilogy failed.
⏱️TIMESTAMPS⏱️
0:00 Intro
0:38 The First Mistake
1:44 No Plan
2:18 No Vision
3:22 The Last Jedi
3:55 Snoke
4:23 Rey
4:35 Luke Skywalker
5:24 Original Cast
6:04 The Rise of Skywalker
7:16 Palpatine
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#starwars #kathleenkennedy - ภาพยนตร์และแอนิเมชัน
The fact that Luke, Han and Leia never appeared together in the Sequel Trilogy in the greatest blunder in movie history.
It’s insane!
Not a blunder. It’s a business decision: the primary intention is to take over the existing space. The Commies in Hollywood want “representation”; the Capitalists want toy sales. Neither want the past to live.
Look what they did with Picard Season 3. The first two seasons were terrible. Then they decided to get the band back together and voila! Success! This was all set up to knock out of the park for the sequels. Finishing off the remaining Empire, perhaps the return of Darth Maul, and Luke and Leia re-creating the Jedi Knights. Pass this all off onto their offspring, Leia and Han with Ben Solo and Luke and his beloved wife and their daughter Rey and you got 3 more sequels in the works. Instead, they got in their own way and decided to change things up. Stars Wars is and always has been Saturday movie schlock and they over complicated it. I blame Kennedy. She was in charge and didn't have the vision. Just another executive.
Yes! That and bringing back Palpatine.
The decision to not have even one scene with the three of them together was mind-boggling! It was a huge slap in the face to all Star Wars fans. And these people are paid millions of dollars to make movies. What were they thinking? You could have grabbed any random fan at a Star Wars convention and they could have written a better script.
Biggest problem: there was no set story direction for the three films as a whole. They wrote each movie by itself, and JJ and Rian wanted to go in completely opposite directions. It felt like each movie spent several minutes deliberately undoing things from the previous film.
Right on! The lack of cohesiveness between the three films was the biggest problem because you had each director going their own way. So much so they had to get rid of Trevorrow and bring back Abrams. Sad
TLJ didn’t undo anything from TFA. It built on it. Rise on the other hand was a malicious, listen to the writers talk about it, attempt to write TLJ out of the canon.
Right on, sure, the original trilogy didn't have a set story direction per say but we knew that the empire was the main threat that needed to be taken, down, with the prequels we always knew it was buliding to the fall of the jedi and rise of the empire. Here this trilogy didn't know what it wanted to be.
Multiverse Star Wars maybe?😂
If you ask me, the biggest mistake the sequel trilogy made was rejecting George Lucas's sequel trilogy outline.
Because both Lawrence Kasdin and esspecially JJ Abrams are only good at writing when they have a good idea to work off of.
Yeah if they ran out of ideas they should have used his ideas instead of copying A New Hope
They could’ve made their timeline for releasing the film. Could’ve made a few changes. Like the characters. Rey should’ve been a Jedi from the start. Poe couldve stayed the same and Finn being a storm trooper turned Jedi was a missed opportunity
@@Catnap785Films That was JJ. He wanted to be creative and so the EU was gone.
@@GWFires I know but when he had no ideas he, could've always went back to those original ideas
I would have been happy with Luke just passing the lightsaber and being a kind old Jedi Master. Wise like Obi -Wan. He still could have died. He didn't have to be a loser. He didn't even train Rey despite Rise of Skywalker pretending he did.
Yeah things should’ve just been set up better in the film including TFA as well
I’m fine with Luke going away a hermit if it makes sense, like he’s looking for a way to combat Snoke or some shit. But nah he just gave up and became a bitch
I’ve always liked the idea of Leia training after ROTJ but the way they rushed everything and just said oh yeah she was kinda a Jedi and she trained Rey was so forced and dumb
Then there’s the icing on the cake which you mentioned with her taking the Skywalker name, despite the fact there is literally no reason or emotional connection she has to the name. Plus Luke was a dick to her for 90% of their interactions
Why did she not take the name Solo or Organa? Who fucking knows!
All the Sequels served to do was exterminate the past, our hopes and dreams, and the entire Skywalker Bloodline
@@gabebartlett9680 why didn’t she just keep her own fucking name? Own it. She looks like a Palpatine anyway, with a face like a dropped pie.
Although I did liked him messing with Rey when he brushe a stick to her face. Showed he became a jokester like Yoda and at his age.
Disney's acquisition of Lucasfilm is what went wrong with the sequels. It really is that simple.
Snoke turning out to be that kid from Episode 3 would've been brilliant. It ties into the previous trilogies. It keeps the Emperor dead. Have a final fight between him and Luke, with Luke refusing to kill him but having to face the actions of his father... damn.
Yes , that would've been so interesting.
He had all that time. From the fall of the Jedi, the empire all the way through the sequels to self train in the dark side of the force
it's as simple as this; a bunch of suits in a room can't make a compelling story (let alone a trilogy of them) with brute force and unguided business strategies. the laughable committee of those in charge at Disney only had one goal and, from the start, it was never to make art with passion and vision, the goal was only ever to make as much profit as possible.
sure, it can be said that George had similar things in mind for his films, but they were never the priority. he wanted to tell stories in the way he wanted, and to push visual effects not only to further improve those stories but to change the industry as a whole. with Disney it was a slap-dash effort of trial and error and just hoping whatever they throw at the wall sticks and nets them some good money. the absolute panic and backpedaling that is evident in Rise of Skywalker both on-screen and in the script really goes to show how empty and thoughtless the whole ordeal was.
Exactly!
The only thing JJ Abrams does is copy star wars, new hope and call it the force awakens.
The problem with these films is the showrunners went into this with utter contempt for the fans, they thought that all they had to was call it Star Wars, have aliens and space ships, light saber fights and pretty explosions and the fans would flock to theaters and buy all the merchandise.
To be fair that is pretty much what happened with 'A Force Awakens' so they rinsed repeated, and instead of taking a step back and evaluating what the fans liked about 'tFA' and building on that and seeing what they didn't like and move away from that kind of thing, they doubled down on their contempt and when the fan base rebeled, well they couldn't be held accountable for a toxic fan base and certianly couldn't bow to them.
So, Solo, and the current state of Star Wars.
With the attitude they brought to the table, it wouldn't have mattered how much time they had, or how big the budgets were, we would find ourselves here.
There is a reason that the old saying, "Pride goeth before a fall" was said, and "I know better," is usally as prideful a statement as you can make.
The sequel trilogy was a very missed opportunity indeed. I sadly have gone off Star Wars in general since I saw The Last Jedi. It just ruined what had come before for me. The Force Awakens was bearable but even after I saw the film, I felt somewhat cheated that it was a rehash of A New Hope and they had Kasdan, who penned some amazing scripts in his career. The problem was that Lucas had a lot of 'yes' people around him when he did the prequels so he did what he wanted to do. The originals mostly had input from Gary Kurtz who tried his best to convince Lusas to focus on the story rather than merchandise, which mostly helped fund the franchise as the popularity grew. Unfortunately Disney also had this mindset. Whilst the sequel trilogy looked really good, the story for all three were very underwhelming. All the points given in the video were spot on. I think all the fans felt cheated in some way when even fan theories seem to work much better! Real shame. I'll always love the original trilogy but I now feel the franchise is getting exploited. I'm giving Star Wars a rest and I think Disney should as well. Of course if the Original Trilogy gets re-released in the Cinema and in their original versions, then I will show some interest. But I doubt this will ever happen.
Described me as well. The last Jedi ended my friend and looked at each other and we’re just like “what was that?”
I'm just kinda at a loss as what to think or say about star wars at this point. Became a fan during the Special Editions, never hated the Prequels, felt legit traumatized after TLJ and numb by TROS. I think I can still enjoy SW by only looking at stuff from back in the day and completely ignoring anything disney. I assumed they just wanted to make a cash grab, but then decided to destroy something they paid four billion dollars for and antagonize the fans they counted on getting that four billion back from. Insanity of the highest order.
I just don’t think most of the people in charge besides filoni and favreau understand the source material
the clone wars and rebels series are great.
@@tenryuta I'm just not really big on SW tv, to be honest. For me, Star Wars is a live action big budget, summer blockbuster summer movie you see in a crowded theatre at a midnight showing like I did with the prequels, and that's really what I miss (the sequels coming out around christmas didn't help matter.) Watching a cartoon at home just doesn't really appeal to me, so I've never seen it.
Andor is VERY much worth your time tho.
@@williammccormick984 I may see it someday, but I refuse to get disney+.
JJ put Star Wars in the ICU. Rian smothered it with a pillow.
Yeah, I still haven’t bothered to see Rise of Skywalker. It sounds like a total cluster of chaotic plot contrivances.
It's a pain I left theater at some point, just couldnt continue to see perverted Star Wars that they turned it into
Don't! It's legit one of the worst finales to any fictional story I have ever seen, rivaled only by The Godfather Part 3 and Cobra Kai Season 5
I agree with this video. The Sequels really needed 1 person with a singular vision to work out the story like Lucas to the OT. Funnily enough, I actually didn’t mind them killing off Snoke in VIII because I just saw him as a knock-off Palpatine and I thought having Kylo (who’s not the most mentally stable individual) take over was an interesting idea. However I do believe they should’ve answered who Snoke was in ‘The Last Jedi’ so the next filmmaker wouldn’t have to work out the identity of a dead guy (which led us to the awful ‘I made Snoke’ reveal). Bringing back Palpatine also completely ruined it so they may as well have kept Snoke alive if they wanted a big bad.
Agreed
Exactly!!! I was really glad when Rian just killed him off without any explanation in Ep. VIII. He was just a Palpatine ripoff anyway and no backstory would have made it any better.
But damn. If I knew it would lead to bringing fucking Palpatine back? ... 😅
Star Wars needed to follow the Cobra Kai model. Honor the original characters while introducing new, interesting characters
Yeahhhhhhhh but even Cobra Kai went downhill. Seriously, have you watched season 5? That shit is a worse finale to the story than TROS in some ways
I'm sorry but I still find it hard to imagine how people expected a return to the OT from Disney when they hired JJ Abrams after he wrecked Star Trek. There were so many red flags being thrown up between his hiring, the end of the old extended universe, the blatant soapboxing by Kennedy, etc that every fan of sci-fi in general should have been wary of Disney's stewardship.
Hope can be blinding lol
The prequel trilogy is actually brilliant in that it has several layers but the expectation was to be similar to the OT. Jar Jar Abrams had no plans, Lucas handed them outlines for the sequel trilogy but Iger, Kennedy, and Abrams decided not to pursue. The results speak for themselves.
Exactly, the prequels were at least better from an art standpoint
The Sequels essentially reconed the WHOLE original story line as well as destroyed the og characters.They pissed o Lucas's life work with his own IP. He was stabbed in the back by the person(KK) he trusted the most to preserve the legacy of Star Wars.Either she knowingly did this or was too stupid to realize that the sequels did this.I'm not sure which one but Lucas even gave Disney(KK) a second chance by coming back and help sort out the last movie.Again they betrayed him and didn't go with his ideas/edit instead doing what they wanted which is most likely why he didn't attend the opening screening ceremony of TROS(ep9).
Fans have every right to hate Disney Star Wars for ruining a childhood love.
I'm not even a fanboy just a casual viewer and can see why people are so upset.
The media and Disney then spit on the fans by calling them names as a way of deflecting responsibility for such a screw up.
On top of that they have ruined other parts of SW with the low effort tv shows where terrible scripts and not understanding characters created even more animosity with fans.
Star wars is dead as of late and i don't blame fans for giving up hope.
Maybe one day a miracle will occur and it will be reborn like it once was in the golden years.
There are only 7 live action movies: OT, PT, and Rogue One.
It's going to sound really mean to Carrie's memory, but;
Why did they think having her be the star of the _last_ film was a good idea? She was always the most likely to die first. Her film should have been Episode VIII imo.
She was actually the only one supposed to survive even in Lucas’s version
She was meant to sorta kinda extend the Chosen One thing, she would unite the galaxy and the New Republic and help lead everything into a better future
Luke was either gonna live or sacrifice himself in Episode 9
Han I’m pretty sure was gonna die from the get go, I’m pretty sure the Dark Jedi figure killing Han was even a thing being put in or floated for Lucas’s treatment as well
Lucas wanted the trilogy to really be about Leia and the Grandchildren. He wanted to round everything out with the other Skywalker (Leia) getting split light and set up the future in the grandchildren and beyond
I will say Luke dying in 8 was absolutely the wrong decision, especially with them not setting up Leia being a Jedi the greatest. If they would’ve set things up better with Leia’s past after ROTJ, and not made Luke a complete bitch, then things woulda been smoother
They honestly should have just recast her. I know it's harsh but Leia could have saved Episode 9.
This didn't even the mention the fact they hadn't sorted out Rey's lineage by the time they were making episode 9
They also completely screwed up big characters like Gen Hux, Capt Phasma, Knights of Ren, DJ.
0:37 Mark Hamill looks so disappointed with Rian Johnson 😭😭😭
While Mark has proven himself a hack due to CERTAIN recent events, I still don't think he deserved what Ryan put him through
I disagree with having/ bringing him back.
They SHOULD have scrapped everyone who wasn’t a fan and only let people who cared about the series direct. This goes for JJ too. Seems like he didn’t care either.
I also don’t think he even understands Star Wars as much as a fan he claims he is.
The fact they hired JJ Abrams after he wrecked Star Trek showed they cared nothing for the story of Star Wars in the first place.
They shoulda just given the job of directing the films to the EU authors lol
The first six episodes had great adverseries. The sequel villains were so badly written that they had to bring back Palpatine and you explained why that was a bad idea
Re-treading the original trilogy with an again-but-BIGGER approach to the point of incredulity, adding characters with potential for further development before immediately throwing them away, flooding the plot with too many characters that the plot desperately wants us to care about, treating the Force like Final Fantasy spells and light sabers like foam swords, forcing in cringey humour that undermines the drama, having a petulant Darth Vader fanboy teenager as a villain, etc. etc. This was no single person's fault... it was a cavalcade of poor decision-making from beginning to end.
The first and biggest problem Disney made was putting Kathleen Kennedy in charge. Kennedy has admitted in the last few years that she intended, from moment one, to remake Star Wars "for women." The problem with this is that the OT (and even the PT) was for everyone. Lucas was always best when reigned in, and the OT is perfect as a result. The hero's journey was the core story of Star Wars and Luke Skywalker was always (Lucas' PT retcon attempts aside) about Luke Skywalker. Kennedy wanted Luke neutered and deconstructed. Once Luke was no longer Luke, Disney Star Wars could no longer be Iconic Star Wars. The OT and EU are Iconic Star Wars; you can either take or leave the PT. If blame is to be assigned for what happened to Star Wars, it should be leveled first at Lucas for selling and for so-called "fans" who lapped up everything Disney crapped out with the Star Wars name on it. These companies will continue to put out garbage as long as there are people who will consume it.
Did she actually say those words? I've not seen that. (Then again, I'm not in the habit of looking for Kathleen Kennedy news.)
I've always felt like her wielding of the "yay women!" card (such as her photo wearing that cringey 'the force is female' t-shirt) was less about her actually believing in & promoting feminist ideals than it was her engaging in stupid, obvious brand management. Yes, the Disney trilogy has a female star & features numerous prominent female characters, but that never felt forced, overdone or unnatural to me. The problem was how those characters, and all the others, were used.
It should have been luke starting his jedi order. Ben and Rey could have been his top apprentices. There could have been a rift between han and luke cause Ben chose to follow luke instead of him. Ben is conflicted and this could have been about his downfall and redemption. This should have been his story. But instead it seems like nothing had changed in 30 years and there's still an empire(first order) and rebellion. It was such a missed opportunity cause it made it seem like the universe never grew since we last saw these characters. And everyone of them has failed at everything in their life. Wow what storytelling
💯
This was my pitch I wrote a tiny while ago:
My main idea is the Skywalkers are the avenue to unlocking the powers of Mortis and Snoke manipulating events and turning Ben Solo is all part of that said plan
Snoke in this pitch would be an Ancient Being before even the Jedi and Sith, with a completely different use of the Force and the Darkside. Maybe he’s a Zeffo or maybe he’s something else entirely, maybe the First Jedi.
Regardless i would’ve had him be completely different from Vader and Palpatine maybe he would have a Kyber Crystal of some sort, but he uses the Crystal and harnesses the power through it, creating all kinds of strange attacks. Maybe Snoke’s Black Ring from the Sequels is the could be the type of thing here. The Kyber would be Black
Finn in my story would be the nobody who rises up and deals with the events there, helping keep the balance of both the Force and the Skywalker bloodline.
While Ben and Rey who are twins or just siblings (similar to Jacen and Jaina from Legends), are in a constant struggle with each other. Rey would’ve ended up on Jakku because after her brother turned and destroyed a lot of the stuff being built and her parents’ marriage was strained, she grew disillusioned and quit the Jedi path, instead pursing a smugglers life or something that gets her on Jakku eventually.
I think it should’ve been Luke fucking up (not pulling out his lightsaber) and Snoke gets his claws in Ben. Then Ben destroys a lot of the order, and then kills Mara Jade similar to her death in Legends Snoke emerging as a hyper threat should’ve also factored in as well. Maybe he hasn’t given up, but more so doesn’t have the answers, and he seeks it out in the First Jedi Temple, you could add a element of fear in this part of Luke as well. The main difference here though is Luke is not a coward bitch
Also similar to Legends in a way, Ben Solo wouldve spent 5 years studying from different Force cults and teachings. Snoke has instructed him a odyssey throughout the galaxy, meanwhile Snoke further builds the First Order, which isn’t the Empire 2.0 but more like the Rebellion in the OT (a faction that is small but slowly growing in power)
The first movie in this pitch would’ve ended with Kylo killing Han, while Rey watches her father die at her brothers hand. Then Kylo would go on to 2v1 Rey and Finn, and disfigure 1 or both of them. Before then some kind of intervention causes the confrontation to end. Whether that’s Luke finally showing back up after years, and running off or beating Kylo after a duel, or maybe the Millennium Falcon fires at Kylo (possibly injuring him).
To summarize…
The sequel trilogy is basically two kids (JJ and Rian) fighting over a sandbox to build a sandcastle.
There a few who ruined the sequels but we all know Katherine Kennedy utterly destroyed everything , it’s totally her fault
Didn't know Kennedy was the director. Guess you learn something new everyday
That’s what they’ve fired her like 15 times right?
@@Abridgimation No but she is the boss
@@DefaultProphet Don't lump us in with Doomock or Mike Zeroh plz
@@clonetrooper2003 Don't align with their bad opinions then :)
3:57 - in 1984 Palpatine was a powerful Sith with a messed up face who gets killed in his second movie without explaining his origin. (We didn’t even know his name)
I agree with most of this video.
But always remember the “hero who always helped his friends” was on an island for 5 years while the rest of the galaxy went to shit.
And that was in TFA.
Rian has also said he felt his hands were tied behind his back when it came to Luke. I see why.
Yeah we can’t forget Jar Jar Abrams and his dumb ass mystery boxes
Man is lowkey a fuckin con artist he’s stolen money from Star Wars, Star Trek, and DC (in which he still hasn’t even done a project yet)
There was no other way to write Luke on that island.
Imagine you're given this hero character, told he's been on this island for years, and now you have to come up with an explaination that DOESN'T make him look like an asshole. And honestly, I think Rian pulled it off.
At this point, the only star wars I'll really watch are episodes 1-6 and The Clone Wars. I don't watch the prequels as much today as I did when i was a kid, but they are still worth the watch.
Couldn't have said it any better. You have hit all great points on what went wrong. Great video ❤
Thanks!
I think all the blame that went to Kathleen Kennedy is unfair . Just as much blame should go to Jar Jar Abrams .
I remember watching one of Chris Gore's Star Wars rants in which he said when he first saw Last Jedi he wasn't that disappointed 'cause he felt it was a set up that would be paid off in the third film. He went on to go through some of the possibilities he imagined could have happened, especially with Luke, and some of them were fantastic!
Sooo much better than the thing Kennedy and Abrams gave us.
If TLJ had've been paid off rather than retconned we might be having completely different conversations these days.
Agreed
Look up dual of the fates it actually pays off
@@Xinathor Y'know I actually got that when it first leaked, but never actually read it. It's got to be better than TROS (anything...literally ANYTHING would be 🤣).
Seriously though, is it good?
@reznik232 so Lukes ghost haunts Kylo
They explain why Rey is op because she born to replace the father on mortis and that's where the final battle takes place between them
Kylo can suck the life out of people
Theres a huge surface battle on Coruscant and it goes and goes
Like it literally connects everything
The next video is on it :)
Disney underestimated the passion of the Fanbase, which led to the downfall of the sequel trilogy. Ryan Johnson should’ve not have been picked to direct any of the films JJ Abrams should’ve been allowed to oversee the trilogy. He wasn’t perfect, but the tone of The Force Awakens really felt like a Star Wars film
They were written by a committee and there was no creative vision. They shouldn't have been made in the first place.
I still remember every single critic saying back in 2015 "This is a true Star Wars Story".... NOT!
One of the worst cases of the studio disregarding quality in favor or meeting deadlines
I don't even watch the sequel trilogy anymore i consider it an alternate timeline or a vision Luke was having during his Jedi training.
Same
They probably went wrong with the lack of cohesion before anything else - I wasn't a fan of 7 but I figured if they make it better retroactively by a high quality 8&9 that were great in their own rights and hopefully answered the questions put forth in 7
It really does feel like anything would have been better than what we got - even if it was consistently bad, it would have been better than a garbled mangled mess
The Leia/Snoke showdown in 9 that was planned and having all original cast members on screen together even once would have been great and so rewarding
One of the biggest problems the Sequel Trilogy had was Disney itself. They gave Lucasfilm one year and half to make each film (Rouge One, Solo and Episode 9).
Rian Johnson was actually offered Episode 9 but he declined because he would only had half the time he had to make the Last Jedi to develop the film. J. J. Abrams was actually brought in because he was willing to work on a tight deadline unlike any other self-respecting director.
If it has to be one thing that was wrong, a lack of vision. Writing a good story usually means writing the ending first, then the beginning, then figuring out what's necessary to get the characters from one end to the other. It is clear that the sequel trilogy was made episode-by-episode with no clear idea where it was all going or how it would all come together. Not only was there no setup=payoff in mind across the 3 movies, but the 2nd movie took the little hooks left in the first and broke them all off, thendidn't really leave anything of substance for the 3rd.
The sequels were a deliberate attack on fans.
No one consistently allows that many fuck ups without being obviously malicious. A lot of the decisions are common sense being ignored.
A couple ideas I got:
They played it easy and used similar if not the same plotlines and tropes that were used in the original trilogy, but then took risks with the smaller parts of those plots and thus the twists felt too alien.
They also tried to have the scope of the prequel trilogy, but all the "new" planets looked like planets that already existed (Jakku was a clone of Tatooine. Maz Kanatas castle was on the Yavin moon, not Takodana. The New Republic homeplanet was on a Coruscant clone).
Also, they just didn't care with the action, dialogue, continuity, or existing characters.
You can do a whole documentary on what happened to the sequel.
I personally feel that the first mistake was to throw out GL's treatments. They should have stuck to them and made them work with a new ST era aesthetic that was a continuation of the OT aesthetic. Then, having no plan was the second major mistake.
Bad writing
Love how folks go on and on about how Luke’s story arc was betrayed while glossing over how Abrams completely destroyed Han’s OT arc and made him an elderly loser who doesn’t talk to his family and still has the same roommate he did forty years ago.
😂😂
The fans hated on the Prequels so much that Lucas said 'nothing doing' and sold out. The fans are what went wrong with SW
The Sequel trilogy had so much potential. So many areas to explore. It could've been so much fun watching a feudal galaxy fighting each other warring states style. Complete chaos. Asking moral questions like should the Jedi participate in politics? Is dictatorship truly bad if it's controlled by an all powerful, fair, and just god-like Jedi ruler? How does one deal with identity of self and familial relations? How a superpower be ironically be topled by the very slaves they bred? Is the extremism of annihilating the Dark Side be treated as a good thing? How does the lack of forgiveness continue the perpetual cycle of pain and suffering?
This channel is becoming one of my favorites. Very good stuff 👌
Mine too. Great content and takes thus far 👍
Thanks guys!
You’re dead wrong about two things of TLJ: 1. Snoke needing a backstory. In the OT, Palpatine never required an origin story and we fans definitely didn’t care, so why does Snoke need one? 2. Johnson’s portrayal of Luke - his character was already set in stone by JJ Abrams. Abrams put Luke on the island as a recluse because of his school of Jedi being destroyed and choosing not to help his friends. So, Johnson was just continuing that story from TFA.
@2:40 "Lucas had a rough outline"
Yes, which was far more than the sequel writers had.
What a great video! Concise, insightful, and describes in a very clear way how the Star Wars sequel trilogy got botched up from the very beginning. I too thought that they missed a huge opportunity by not having at least one scene with all three OG characters together. I remember hearing from somewhere that the reason why they didn’t do it is because they didn’t want the older characters to overshadow the new up-and-coming characters. Wtf???
Thanks Bruce!
That’s just a silly reason to me because… so what if they overshadow the new characters? Everyone who paid to see the force awakens wanted to see Luke, leia, Han, chewy etc.
The Sequel Trilogy was missing what inspired Star Wars : Westerns , Fairy Tales , Flash Gordon Serials , Kurosawa movies
Honestly..... I'm with George Lucas on all of this: The only thing "canon" in the series is what happened in the six original George Lucas produced movies, everything outside of said features(be it EU or Disney) is just............ something else. Nothing of note happens after Return of the Jedi, and nothing of note happened prior to The Phantom Menace, our journey throughout the galaxy far far away was complete with the end of the Skywalker Saga(episode six).
Answering the question: everything.
Too many cooks in the kitchen, no coherent vision or even an idea what exactly they wanted to do. Bland characters, attacks on fans, too much reliance on nostalgia.
@ Bullets & Rum This is a rare occasion where I have to defend Kennedy. Usually I'm the one defending JJ but Rise of Skywalker was JJ & Terrio, at least at first (before the mountain of reshoots). From what I've heard, Kennedy actually DID want to bring back Rian but Iger wouldn't let her. She wasn't the one who "forced" JJ to answer his questions. He wanted to do that. But more importantly, it's not as simple as retconning TLJ in a vacuum to "appease the fans". There was barely any story left after TLJ. What was supposed to happen? Trevorrow's story was better but he had to pull a million things out of left field just so there could be a story.
Without the Kuat heist, Mortis, Coruscant, Korilev, Remnicore, and Bonadan, what can Episode 9 be aside from a repeat of the Hobbit 3? Once Smaug died, they were just fighting Azog for a while movie. Rian Johnson killed Smaug in TLJ. Was the entirety of Episode 9 just supposed to be one battle against Kylo? What else is left? Is Rey supposed to have an army of Broom Boys? Like genuinely, what story is left from 7 and 8? How can you do Episode 9 without pulling things from the Prequels and EU like Trevorrow did?
Rise of Skywalker wasn't bad because it was trying to appease the fans. It was the opposite -- it was bad because it ignored fan criticisms. It did a bunch of careless nonsense like light speed skipping, force healing, and pulling armies out of thin air. THE FANS DIDN'T ASK FOR THAT. On the contrary, we criticized the inexplicableness of the First Order in The Force Awakens. The Final Order is literally repeating that same mistake again, pulling a more powerful army out of nowhere.
The Rise of Skywalker's problem wasn't trying to do right by the fans. It was failing to understand the fans (and in some cases outright ignoring us, like with the Final Order). Trying to do right by the fans is a GOOD thing when actually done right (Trevorrow's movie ironically would have been one that the fans would have actually liked).
Like, JJ only brought back Sidious because Snoke was dead. He wouldn't have bothered if Snoke had been alive. Obviously, Rian didn't force JJ to bring back Sidious, but the roots of Sidious's return are in The Last Jedi. They made Snoke a puppet of SIdious so that Sidious would be a bigger villain who ties the trilogy together (and I'm not saying that makes it good writing, just that there are very few options for how to tie the trilogy and the saga together if you kill Snoke in Episode 8).
But I'm sick of people acting like Anakin's sacrifice was fine until Rise of Skywalker. The existence of Snoke in Force Awakens already screwed up Anakin's sacrifice and the Prophecy. Snoke is a Sith in all but name. The Prophecy was pretty much pointless if he's around. Stop acting like The Force Awakens wasn't the one that betrayed Anakin.
Other than that stuff, I actually loved your video. You're one of the few people who actually points out things that happened and doesn't just say "Meh it's all just JJ."
Thanks! Appreciate the kind words and your additional points. I think fans would’ve liked duel of the fates much better. I think it’s pretty decent. Not amazing but a passable film. I just find rise of skywalker so offensively bad and obtuse I struggle to even watch it. Duel would’ve been fine imo. Kylo as the big bad was where I assumed they were going after last Jedi. Bringing in another authority figure wasn’t necessary
Just adding to this too. Kennedy and jj clashed a lot in post on skywalker with the Final Cut very different than what he wanted. She meddled a lot on this one, panicked by the last Jedi reception.
@@Bulletsandblockbusters I have heard about her meddling but I've also heard that Kennedy wanted Rian back and bringing back JJ was Iger's decision. The story I heard was that Iger wanted to undo The Last Jedi, not Kennedy, and Kennedy wanted to work with Rian as much as possible.
And as far as Kylo being the big bad, it's not that I'm against that in concept, but it fels very unfair to sacrifice a villain who could have tied all 9 movies together just to do a "unhinged guy kills master" story that you could really tell anywhere.
Heck, Kylo could have still betrayed Snoke and become independent even if Snoke hadn't died. He could have formed his own faction and then we'd have three warring factions - which actually would be new and different as opposed to the Empire/Jedi rip off that TLJ was.
It feels like killing off Voldemort in Harry Potter 6 along with Dumbledore and having Bellatrix take over the Death Eaters.
Yes, Bellatrix is unhinged and it could be interesting to see what she would do now that she's "off her leash." But we just spent 6 books building up the Boy Who Lived and the brother wands and "Neither can live while the other survives" and learning about the horcruxes, so it feels like we're cheated out of the finale we were promised in Harry Potter 1 (a problem you wouldn't have if Bellatrix simply broke off from Voldemort).
But also, An unhinged villain killing their master -- that really tends to work better when the master had them on a tight leash.
Robert Baratheon wasn't a villain but he had a very tight leash on Joffrey. So when Robert died and Joffrey took over, it was terrifying because Joffrey and Cersei could now do all kinds of cruel things they couldn't before.
But with Kylo, I personally can't really see that. Unlike Bellatrix and Joffrey, Snoke didm't really have Kylo on much of a leash. What can Kylo do now that he couldn't do under Snoke? Kylo, Hux, and Phasma were all pretty much second in command, and it seemed like Kylo had free reign to kill and destroy as he pleased.
Like, when Kylo had all cannons fire on Luke on Crait, yes, he doesn't have control of his temper like Snoke would have -- but isn't that what Snoke would have wanted anyway?
Having Kylo kill Snoke might seem exciting in theory, or in the moment, but I fail to see what Kylo replacing Snoke really changes for the heroes...
This is why the death of Snoke didn't resonate with me personally. But obviously, bringing back Sidious causes more problems than it solves.
Also, years ago I discovered links to two film treatments for Star Wars 8 and 9 supposedly by JJ Abrams. The guy who posted them claims to be a Bad Robot employee (and even posted pictures of a filming notice and showed video of a supposed Bad Robot office).
Episode 8
imgur.com/gallery/WKkli
Episode 9
imgur.com/gallery/j9OQylb
I have reason to believe they're most likely fake because I met someone who's met JJ and said that JJ doesn't use this font or put his name on every page, but he does use red paper.
Still...the guy who posted these claims (on his TH-cam channel, Bootsy Playboy), that these were created by assistants based on conversations JJ & Kasdan had, and it was this particular guy's job to print stuff out, and that's how he "discovered" them.
I personally enjoyed the story for 8 (though it's flawed) while the story for 9, while entertaining, is a genuine nightmare of nonsense.
Still, you might get a kick out of these...
Interesting. Would be wild if these treatments are legit but after reading a bit of ep 8 they seem fake. Never know tho!
I do think there was a way to salvage but you had to do it in a very specific way…..I think you had to go smaller and more character driven with Sidious and his return being the main plot thread
I agree. Snoke should’ve had a background story because it would’ve made more sense. I’ve written Star Wars stories before and I gave characters backstories. I always give characters backstories when I write Star Wars stories.
Until Kathleens sacked, nothing is going to change. She's incompetant.
One of the reasons is because neither director wanted to go to the other director’s way they wanted to be 100% their way.
I wish we had Colin Trevorrow’s Episode 9 titled “Dual Of The Fates” instead of The Rise Of Skywalker. I’ve read the original script which is on the internet and it sounds so cool
This may not be the right place to say this but I'm going to anyway. This is still the prime example of how to reboot a successful franchise from decades ago the correct way. It honors the legacy characters for fans of the original trilogy and creates compelling new characters for a younger generation. It manages to balance the right amount of nostalgia and fresh ideas for old fans and new. When I watched the new shows I laughed, cheered and enjoyed every minute of it. It should stand as a template for all future reboots of old franchises.
Thank you for reading my mini review of Cobra Kai. Hope you're enjoying watching this video about the dumpster fire that is the Star Wars sequel trilogy.
Hahaha amazing
Had me in the first 3 quarters not gonna lie...
I as well as 50% of the fanbase never went back to thetres for the second and third installment
Imagine if, instead of Palpatine, Rey was related to a different prequel trilogy favorite like Qui Gon or Dooku
Your point about Johnson completing the trilogy maybe could’ve worked, but also maybe would’ve been worse too. Should have let JJ, Johnson, or even Trevorror done all three. Or let Trevorror do his film.
I think Trevorrow’s film would’ve worked fine if he got to make it
7:33 - the ending of the first trilogy was deemed meaningless not by the return of Palpatine in the TLJ but already at the beginning of TFA when the situation of the galaxy is basically the same as it was at the beginning of "A New Hope". This trilogy was doomed from the start.
Spending most of Rey's arc questioning who her parents were, who were nobodies, but her grandpa is Palpatine who somehow comes back.
They never made a sequel to The Last Jedi is the biggest issue
having the trilogy set 30 years later was too soon , should've been 1000 years later
I love how people complain about Palpatine coming back as lazy and undermining Anakin’s sacrifice and yet don’t bat a single eyelash when it comes to Legends which pretty much did the same exact thing.
I remember going "oh no" in the theater when Poe started making "Yo Mama" jokes.
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Basically they didn't give enough time to flesh out the first Star Wars film after they got Star Wars because it would mean losing out on the holiday sales. In doing so they pushed the big questions for later (because they didn't know what to do with key things yet) and only after realizing the second director's film was very different from what was going on did Kathleen go panic mode trying to fix things making for a very squashed final film that then caused many more problems story-wise.
...All because Disney wanted holiday sales and didn't seem to realize you can still have people going to the cinema in spring.
The first Star Wars film worked because Lucas spent four years writing the script, completely trashing it and starting from scratch at least four times- and even after all that revision and hard work, the rough cut STILL wasn’t very good, so Lucas’ creative friends and his editing team worked like hell to salvage it, with stunning success. Empire didn’t go through quite as many revisions, but had the advantage of skilled professionals like Brackett and Kasdan behind the writer’s desk, and they took the time to make a story that worked. Since then, the rush to get more products to market as quickly as possible has resulted in a string of mediocre-to-terrible films loaded with plot holes, flat drama, and lazy rehashing of old ideas. The disastrous sequel trilogy is just the final culmination of a trend that was already visibly starting back in 1983.
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I love your video. Finally someone who speaks about this in an informed and constructive way without all the over-dramatized crybaby bullshit.
I think it's really a huge missed opportunity. Because they actually had a great approach to "how" - meaning the visuals, special effects and such. I actually think that Disney era for example contains the best looking lightsaber duels in all of SW history. But they totally forgot about the "what" - meaning the plot. The story.
I'm really glad you mentioned that keeping Rian for Ep. IX would have been the lesser evil. It's kind of an unpopular opinion, because it's pretty much mandatory to hate on Rian for everything he touches, but it's actually very true. I actually think that it would have been very interesting if Rian did all three himself. It would probably not be something that die hard fans would love, but it would at least be very interesting for everyone else.
Soulless films with no plan. The anti-trilogy.
4:00 Snoke being a survived Youngling gone bad = *BADASS!* #FireKennedy
A lot of the problems seem to be coming from the higher ups I Disney, which is not surprising.
Pretty well sums it up. I also had so much hope for this trilogy and it was one of the biggest disappointments I've ever seen. All we got from these movies was incredibly lazy writing, shallow uninteresting characters and a plot that can't decide which way it wants to go.
The only way to save Star Wars at this point is to completely retcon this trainwreck of a trilogy and start over from scratch. But sadly, Disney will never let that happen.
Agreed
Prequels > Disney-Wars. I've always defended the prequels since they were new and never regretted it.
I love the fact that so many of these sort of presentations are now basically post mortem.
Nostalgia Critic made a great video on if finn was the main character which makes me wish finn was the main character even more
I’m convince that Harrison Ford is the reason why Han died in the first film. (Not the whole reason but still) In many interviews it shows he dislikes his role as Han Solo. And also he wanted for his character to die in A new hope. He could’ve stuck it out for the fans but I doubt he really cared about that.
I'm convinced that Disney killed Carrie Fisher and threatened Mark with the same
The more I think about the sequel trilogy, the more I can’t believe how much they messed it up. It’s not just that I didn’t like what they did with the characters, it’s that a lot of the writing was awful. Like textbook awful (I still kind of like force awakens tho)
oddly enough palpatine came back in the Legends continuity, not once, not twice but four times
The sequels killed Star Wars for me, the prequels look like masterpieces in comparison, The Last Jedi was the first movie I've ever seen where at the end of it I told my brother this movie is shit, and The Rise of Skywalker was terrible from beginning to end and a part of me died when I saw it.
I need to rewatch the prequels. I have such fond memories of watching them as a child. It stayed right to LotR in terms of how impactful it was
I would love to see what Rian would have done with episode 9.
Episode 7 is my favorite Star Wars movie which makes 8 & 9 hard to watch.
Besides his questionable creative choices, Rian Johnson is too concrete with his ideas. He has ideas, a story he wants to tell, regardless of how you feel about him or his choices. The mistake was introducing that into Star Wars, which is too steeped in myth, better yet has become a myth unto itself. 40+ years in the modern era is forever, and this mythos has solidified. You don't introduce someone who wants a sandbox into that environment.
I such a can of worms to talk about the sequel trilogy, but I agree, it would of been easier to let Johnson finish the trilogy. At least then we would of had 2 films that worked to together.
Ryan deviated so far that he started the second film on Hoth... I mean "a different ice planet, totally not Hoth."
That opening shot killed any hope I had for the film.
I always think about what would’ve happened had Mark just said I’m not playing this part anymore.
Rian is a good director, but he’s no writer.
EDIT: Also, Kathleen Kennedy sucks.
Thank you! Seriously, this is one of the first times I've heard someone share my view on this... I think Kennedy was a bad choice for overseeing all of this. They wanted to have "one person" in charge like Marvel. But they didn't get why that was successful... the MCU worked because it was a creative producer who understood his material, could map out an overall arc... he'd let people be creative within that, but picked people that fit the overall vision and gave them some boundaries.
Disney hired Kennedy, who has been a very successful producer, notably working with Spielberg. But she's not a creative producer, she's a managing one... she takes what the creative, namely the director, say Spielberg, and makes what he wants to do happen. So, yes, she ends up deferring to the directors, and she's not putting together an overall arc for the films and other projects. The one who does is Filoni, he would have been the Star Wars equivalent of Feige, and has also been good at getting other talented creators to join in shaping and creating the overall story we see on the Disney+ shows.
Agreed and well said!
It would have been waaaaaay better if snoke was plagueis. The scars on snoke's face could have been from when palpatine tried to kill him.
I know this probably wouldn’t help much but I think Collin should’ve directed episode nine like he should have
I remember being so excited when Disney bought Star Wars. I thought since they had done so well with Marvel imagine what they're going to do with Star Wars. Original trilogy story with amazing special effects and great lightsaber fights. The Force Awakens set up enough that I was excited for the sequel. The chance to see a fully trained Luke Skywalker was so exciting. How would they expand the lore? Snoke seemed like a really interesting villain. The few scenes Andy Serkis played him were genuinely scary. I left The Last Jedi so disappointed. Since then I stopped caring. I grew up loving Star Wars. Playing great games like Galactic Battlegrounds, the Jedi Knight games and Battlefront. Now I just don't care anymore. They announced the new films and no one cared. Me and my friends used to love Star Wars but no one even mentioned the new films.
Great analysis 👏
Appreciate it!
@@Bulletsandblockbusters your welcome. Look forward to more videos 🙂
They messed up such an easy slam dunk!
What went wrong?
Answer: Ryan Johnson
Answer: Kathleen Kennedy
@@colmyers I agree she is part of what went wrong but the director had no idea what he was doing
Nah it was Abrams.