Jack Nicholson’s Joker, Danny DeVito’s Penguin, Jim Carrey’s Riddler, and Nicolas Cage aa Scarecrow, all in one movie… we were robbed of one of the greatest ensemble cast of all time
Few needed to be there, if at all. Stunt performers, silhouettes, and smoke could have trimmed down the budget. All that were needed is a few hours of recorded dialogue and a few for their time. Heck, the young Napier actor from Batman could've appeared in makeup with Mark Hamil's menacing laugh filling in the blanks in the viewers' minds. All it takes is a little bit of creativity and it could've happened on budget and as a big hit.
Schumacher made plenty of movies that show me he could have done a serious Batman movie: Falling Down, The lost boys, Phone Booth, and 8mm as some examples.
Joel Schumacher was forbidden by McDonald’s to make a serious Batman movie. Batman Forever and Batman and Robin was actually ghost directed by Ronald McDonald. I’m glad Hollywood studios no longer tolerate interference from corporations. They stick to product placement which is as it should be.
His style of filmmaking was so gothic and theatrical...all the shadows and fades and dutch-angles. As Tim Burton showed, you can create a highly stylized take on Batman while still being true to the source material. Every time I watch The Phantom of the Opera, I get sad that Schumacher never the chance to make the Batman film he could've.
@@bratton79 Big Western companies, US gov (with the UK, EU below them), US, UK & EU networks and along with big Hollywood studios, they're all part of the same thing. With the first 2 helping each other in their own interests and corpo networks giving them credibility as "trusted sources" and Hollywood making the mental programming through media. US agencies also decide certain Hollywood scripts. Usually the ones related to those agencies or war related. Just one of several examples, Lord of War was made with funds from somewhere, not Hollywood, because it criticizes what the US gov. do and they pretend they don't, make the contrast with Black Hawk Down, which is filled with lies, Hollywood style. In short, US supported a ruthless ruler in Somalia for 20 years, because he served their interests. He got overthrown by the people; US left when that was close to happen, returned 2 years later to put one that serves their interests again, while trying to look as saviors. That film is only about "we're good, we only save the world and again".
I honestly feel bad for Joel Schumacher. He wanted to bring the Batman films back to its darker roots, but WB insisted on making them more light-hearted.
@@DragonFist9323did you watch the video at all. The theme of the video is about producers hindering what the director actually wanted to do. So it is not known what the movies had been like if Schumacher was not forced to make kid friendly and toy oriented movies by the producers.
People need to realize if it wasn’t Joel, the studio would’ve hired another director to do it. I appreciate looking back now Joel’s aesthetic to the Batman franchise as I grew up fascinated and just wowed as a kid of all the colors, action, and dare I say, its campy acting. It has a place in the Batman universe，just another rendition. I’m not mad at Joel nor wish someone else had directed it AT THE CURRENT TIME OF BATMAN’S POPULARITY. Thank you Joel.
Joel was so under appreciate as a filmmaker. One thing that man never gets any credit for was how beautiful his Batman films are. Outside of Bat nipples, the design and overall aesthetic to his Batman films I still say are the best to date. All the other Batman films look so mundane and monotone in comarison. Only Tim Burton's comes close to having any life to it. Now modern superhero movies look so ugly now as they all basically just devolved into people standing in front of a video game screen. I'm just crossing my fingers maybe one day someone would try and replicate the design and aesthetic to Joel's Batman films and use them for like a science fiction or fantasy film to really give the world life.
I like how the Lego Batman games were heavily inspired by his version of Gotham. The inspiration for the Lego Batman game trilogy also included Paul Dini & Bruce Timm's Batman: The Animated Series and Tim Burton's Batman and Richard Donner's Superman and Stanley Ralph Ross, Douglas S. Cramer, & Wilford Lyod Baumes' Wonder Woman.
Side note: I never understood why parents complain that a movie is marketed to kids when the same movie is PG-13. It's the rating of the movie, which is advertised! 🤷🏽♂
@@joen8529 It's still a PG-13 movie. It's clearly labeled as a PG-13 movie on posters, trailers, and ads. I was a kid when Batman Returns came out and I wasn't allowed to see it in theaters because my parents saw that it was PG-13 and I wasn't old enough. I had to wait until it was on video to watch it, after my parents first. This kind of stuff still happens today with parents getting upset taking their kids to watch a that's a little mature because it's PG-13. Parents should be upset with themselves and not movies that are clearly rated by the MPAA.
because happy meals are not for 13 year olds Parents were not complaining that they made their kids see it and it was too mature They were saying it made the kids want to see it and they had to say no.
They just should've let Tim Burton continue. He can make movies that have a proper balance of dark and campy, like Beetlejuice. Scarecrow, Man-Bat, Killer Croc, and Clayface would've been perfect villain additions to Burton's universe, since Burton usually makes scary films.
The studios gave Burton too much creative control for Batman Returns and yeah... he just made a depressing, if not somewhat mean spirited Batman movie that was just a massive downer and mood killer. Yet another good example why you don't give creators full reign over movie franchises.
Batman and Robin is an irredeemable turkey, but I will contend till my final breath that the production designers knocked it out of the park. Gotham has never looked so phantasmagoric before or since. If these visuals were paired with a movie that took itself seriously, we could've gotten a visual, if not necessarily narrative, masterpiece.
I'm totally ok with B&R being goofy and I enjoy it to this day. Because it is well crafted film, which just doesn't take itself very seriously. I don't get ppl's strive for realism and seriousness when comes to fictional characters. That's how we ended up with more realistic movies about Batman or Harry Potter than those about Napoleon. Maybe it's time to start rethinking priorities.
The story certainly seems like it had great potential, but imagine how expensive all those cameos would've gotten. Silverstone was not comfortable in that Batgirl costume and wasn't eager to return, so, I'm not surprised she was written out. I do agree that it wouldn't be impactful having Clooney's Batman going up against Nicholson, DeVito, and Pfeiffer. That's IF Clooney stayed on. He quickly moved onto films like Out of Sight, Three Kings, O Brother, Where Art Thou?, and Ocean's Eleven, establishing his star power and charismatic screen presence. I can't see his career without those major stepping stones being the same.
After Batman & Robin's reception, even with a darker tone I'm 100% certain that audiences would've seen Clooney in the batsuit again and went "No thanks". Even Batman Begins struggled at the box office years later with people still associating Batman with Schumacher's goofy tone. No way a sequel to Batman & Robin would've done well.
Those folks must not have watched the trailers of Batman Begins or did any research. Not only would they have realized the movie was a REBOOT and thus having NADA to do with the previous movies, but the trailers alone would also show how GOOD the movie was likely to be. I hate when people want to use one movie's failure to justify not wanting to see the next, even if there's evidence layed out beforehand for them to see why this movie needed to be given a chance. As far as a sequel to Batman & Robin is concerned, while its reasonable to think it wouldn't do well if the same team came back, all it takes is good writing, directing, and marketing to get things back on track. A sequel to a seemingly bad movie can work but very little has it been done because studios don't want to risk disaster, which is reasonable. On the other hand, I want to imagine how many bold and successful turn overs we could have had for the sake of keeping the continuity stable and bringing about a solid conclusion with franchises that did have that one bad entry that just ended a series entirely and or before some fancy remake, reboot, or retcon sequel came about afterwards as a lazy way to course correct things. I rather see more of that so studios aren't so quick to give up on a series and take the easy way out. I would have waited to do a sequel to Batman & Robin, around the same time as Begins and maintained that movies style and tone. I bet you a Begins like sequel would have surely done better than what one might have believed.
@@devontehuntley6274 Problem is the whole idea of a big movie reboot wasn't really a thing before that. They'd never really done a "We're starting from scratch and telling the origin" thing. Nowadays we're used to it but back then a lot of people thought this was meant to be the origin of Michael Keaton's one.
@@R1ch4d8 Oh, it was certainly a thing more so by the middle and end of the decade. We had reboots starting from the end of the 1990s decade and through the first half of the 2000s. Quite a few of these movies were hits, particularly with the horror genre which really gave the trend its uprising. With Batman Begins, it clearly was not associated with the Burton movie. The tone was entirely different, the setting looked to be modern day, the outfit was far more advanced, like there was no reason for anyone to think this was a prequel. Even if it was, it clearly doesn't have the style of the Schumacher movies but instead have a serious and polished look that would indicate this movie is to be something of a do over and worth giving a shot. Audiences are just dumb and quick to judge for all the wrong and misguided reasons.
@@devontehuntley6274 I don't think it was. As far as big, long-running franchises go anyway. Even stuff like Friday the 13th and Halloween hadn't been rebooted yet. Stuff like the 90s Godzilla and The Mask of Zorro weren't really "reboots" cos they hadn't been a well-established franchise in America before that, they were just modern adaptations of an old thing. Where Batman Begins was one of the first big instances of a recent franchise disregarding everything that came before it and starting fresh. I was 14 when trailers came out and I knew it was a restart instantly, but for a lot of other people you tell them "There's a new Batman film coming out" and they picture Jim Carrey screaming cos they didn't really have a reference for a "reboot".
It's weird that the plot was focused on this Batman overcoming his "fear of bats". *What* fear? If Clooney was meant to be a continuation of Keaton and Kilmer, neither of them had any problem around bats in their films, and neither did Clooney in his. Kilmer even said about his childhood flashback seeing the bat in the cave "I was scared at first, but only at first." Keaton even had a pet bat in a little cage. What was the writer talking about?
I was thinking the same thing. Keaton had bats flying around his cave in Batman 89. He used bats to distract Penguin before falling through the window.
@@heybrowhatup I know. And the implication that Keaton's Batman just kept a bunch of bats in the backseat of his boat is hilarious. Like, this character arc makes sense in Batman Begins cos they set up from the first scene that Bruce Wayne has an intense phobia of bats, so when he conquers it it has impact. Where with Batman Unchained it'd be like "Y'know that fear of bats that this guy never had before? Well he's better now."
It’s worth mentioning that, for the sake of peak 90’s popularity, reuniting the bulk of the previous villains + one ascending Nicholas Cage in one movie was considered the most expensive movie/dream sequence of its time, and that was just the movie pitch. Despite insisting on script and concept alteration to boost toy sales, Warner wasn’t too keen on spending that much to course correct after its previous iteration flopped
Heard of the story and I thought that the concept was brilliant. It's unfortunate that it never came into fruition 'cause everyone agreed that, "Batman & Robin," was too much. Fun Fact: Batman & Robin is part of the reason why Tim Burton's, "Superman Lives," was cancelled.
Joel Schumacher will always be a great Filmmaker Phone Booth is one of my all time favorites. We understand that he was forced to make his two Batman movies more for kids by the studio. He seemed like such a chill dude too with a good sense of humor.
I think this movie could have been amazing, just like Affleck’s solo film. I do understand why it didn’t happen, but part of me wishes this fifth film would’ve been made.
Nah. The reimagining of Harley Quinn's character is awful. Between that and considering how expensive this flick would have been, it would have done worse than the awful "Batman and Robin" dumpster fire.
Schumacher was an extremely talented director and has several great films. I think the flaws of Forever and Batman and Robin were largely not his fault. This could have been a very solid film. Huge fan of Schumacher's visual style in Lost Boys, and Flatliners. It's likely best this didn't happen, but I think he had some great ideas.
Great video, as always! To your point about the Joker confrontation with the Clooney Batman possibly not working as intended because it wasn't Keaton, I don't think audiences in the late 90s were as concerned about shared universes and alternate timelines as they are today. Hardcore Batman fans didn't have the platform to voice their displeasure far and wide like they do today with social media, and shared continuities weren't a part of superhero movie marketing like it later became with the MCU. I think if Clooney were to have donned the Keaton/Burton era costume, at least for that specific scene, I think it would have worked.
Circa 1997/98, I read that Jeff Goldblum (and even Howard Stern, although that may have been apochryphal) were being looked at for The Scarecrow, and that Jenny McCarthy, who Joel Schumacher had wanted to play Sugar in Batman Forever, was also being looked at for Harley Quinn, alongside Madonna and Courtney Love. It's interesting that Cage was considered for Scarecrow, seeing that this is roughly the same period they were thinking of making Superman Lives with Cage as the lead.
@@Bulletsandblockbusters True, and as you suggest in the video, at the time, the Batman films were casting the biggest stars for each villain (i.e. Nicholson, DeVito, Carrey and Schwarzenegger). Cage, who was coming off mega-hits, The Rock, Con Air and Face/Off, as well as a recent Oscar, would have fit that bill, but, it's also true to say that Goldblum, who physically fit the bill for The Scarecrow, was at the height of his popularity thanks to Jurassic Park and Independence Day, which were the biggest hits of their respective years, and featured Goldblum as a scientist, albeit a good scientist, in contrast to the less virtuous Dr Jonathan Crane.
I feel like Joel Schumacher was one of the many directors controlled by Warner Bros in terms of his vision for his Batman film's,Not only did he want to do an origen story and that got scrapped by WB but even his version of Batman forever was totally different and had quite a few scenes cut....So time and time again WB will continue to smother certain directors who don't have that much control as of yet in the industry and ruin what could be great film's in the process that's why we didn't get a Flash movie up until 2023 and that's a whole other story
After Batman & Robin's reception, even with a darker tone I'm 100% certain that audiences would've seen Clooney in the batsuit again and went "No thanks". but honestly i think we can SAFELY say, we were actually thankful this movie didn't happen and Nolan rebooted to the masterpiece that it came to be
Batman and Robin did serve a certain purpose - little kids did love it! My sons watched it tons when they were little - and to young for The Dark Knight etc.
It's weird how the studio wanted a more kid friendly and light hearted Batman movie, so they turned to the guy who made WAY darker films (Falling down, a time to kill, Veronica Guren,8MM) than Tim Burton.
Only one of those har been made before his Batman movies. Prior to 1995 he'd directed a lot of movies, but didn't seem to have a consistent style or sensibility, just going by his films. Prior to his Batmans I don't think I ever watched a movie and thought, "ah yes, this looks like a Schuhmacher." He was mostly a chameleon. He could make bawdy lowbrow comedy like DC Cab, an edgy thriller like Falling Down, genre material like Lost Boys, family pleasers like Incredible Shrinking Woman, or just in-flight movies like the Client, Cousins, St Elmo's Fire. I got the feeling he was tabbed because he coukd make whichever kind of movie a studio asked him for. Nothing outstanding, but always competent.
I always felt it interesting how Batman Forever incorporates some elements from Burton's Batman Continues (such as the Riddler as the main villain), Batman Begins has elements from both Batman Unchained and the Aronofsky's script, while Reeves's film has few elements from Affleck's movie (like the psychological approach). There's a continuity between all the Batman movies that you can see only if you look at the unproduced ones.
I dont care what anyone says, they should have went ahead and made this movie. From everything I researched about this movie, the story sounds amazing and love the idea of tying the other movies together with bringing back the dead villains. Love the idea of Harley being Joker's daughter. This movie was made in an alternate universe
I know most people defend Clooney in Batman and Robin saying it was a bad script but truthfully Clooney was always a bad choice. In interviews, he said that HE pushed for his Batman to be lighter and less tortured, feeling the audience wouldn't feel sympathy for a billionaire.
Thank you I get so tired when I hear those dumb complains that he just needed a better script I feel like the same goes to the 2000s Fantastic Four really don't get the renewed love that movie is getting and Clooney was always miscast there's a reason why he wasn't brought back in the Flash and it being Michael Keaton
Personally, I don't think it's impossible for a filmmaker or an audience to embrace a more at peace Batman. He wouldn't quit, Gotham will always need him, but a Batman who doesn't brood over everything can work. Look at the Arkham games. They're dark and Batman takes the threats seriously, but we dont get Shadow style soliloquies about justice at the same time. Balance is possible.
You’re welcome my friend keep up the amazing work! I remember piecing together some details online of concepts for superhero movies that weren’t made and I’m so happy that you’ve been releasing these well thought out explanations. It heals my inner nerdy child in some way 🥲 Edit: well researched not well thought out
This is my big issue with some Batman fans out there - They are so quick to just crap on Schumacher. In reality, he was just doing his job and honoring the studios wishes. Hell, or demands. I do agree that while it would've been cool to see the villains from the past films again, I don't think it would've hit as hard with Clooney's Batman. Especially those from the Burton movies. Great video!
Before I heard about this movie, I thought that if they ever made a 5th one directed by Shumacher, they would do something campy like bring the joker back from the dead. I still cannot believe how accurate that is, even though he would’ve come back as a vision or something.
There were also rumors that Howard Stern (yes, Howard Stern) was tapped to play Jonathan Crane/Scarecrow & Crane was going to be Dick Grayson's Psychology College Professor. I'm glad this never happened because then we would never have gotten the Christopher Nolan Batman trilogy.
That first draft Batman Unchained script is amazing. I wish they had made that. I remember a contest on the Batman and Robin VHS tape for an extra part in the fifth Batman movie.
Spider-Man: No Way Home did what Batman: Unchained could not was bringing villains from past movies both the Raimiverse and Webbverse and Joel Schumacher never got his chance to redeem himself and franchise. Now that he passed away his name will go down in history as the guy who directed one of the worst superhero movies of all time.
It's funny. Joel Shumacher also made Falling Down. A Batman film in that ballpark would have been much better. Most of Schumacher's films outside Batman are fairly serious and dark.
Spider man no way home was the movie the flash could have been, but Warner bros blew it with all the cuts, and getting Ezra miller as the flash even though he’s a pervert and a sick man who should have been fired. They should’ve recast the role. And also they should’ve left the original ending with Michael keaton’s Batman returning along with supergirl and the rest of the justice league from the Snyderverse. And we would’ve had seen both Ben affleck and Michael Keaton as Batman in scenes together.
I never knew about this one! It sounds like it would have been pretty interesting. Having Nic Cage and Courtney Love as the villains would have been wild.
I immediately thought the same thing. And as they talked more about her character, the worse it got. They basically wanted to completely change her character.
Ppl in the comments saying Joel made the two worst Batman movies and that he couldn’t do dark but there is a lot of deleted scenes from Batman Forever that really prove how dark he could go. There is one were Bruce finally comes to realize that it wasn’t his fault that his parents died
@@Bulletsandblockbusters I really wish they would go and watch some of his other work in all honestly. Because just like you said his other movies prove he can go there
Batman unchained could easily have been a perfect ending for the Batman franchise ending the franchise on a high note while also being a best film of a best franchise.
I unironically and unabashedly love Schumacher's vision for Batman and Gotham. Forever is a genuinely good film. I don't like Batman and Robin, but I DO like that it's a kind of lavish and stylish production he was able to get away with. I would LOVE to finally see the Schumacher Cut of Forever see the light of day.
Interesting concept, but Clooney's Batman doesn't really fit. It could've been great to see Keaton in a movie like this, exploring guilt that Batman felt. In some ways it's a shame this won't see the light of day.
It's so unfortunate that Joel Schumacher had to deal with so much negativity from fans for Batman and Robin when that wasn't even the movie he wanted to make and hell Batman Forever wasn't even the movie he wanted to make he wanted to make a very dark Batman movie but if course WB said No which lead eventually lead to Batman and Robin and Joel suffered a majority of the blame which it should have been WB should have got all of the blame
Such a shame Batman Unchained never got made. I remember back in 1997 before Batman and Robin was released, I read a magazine, and it was rumoured Jeff Goldblum was going to play The Scarecrow in Batman Unchained. Batman Unchained would have been a truly great Batman movie. It was for the best cos we got Christopher Nolan's successful and influential Dark Knight trilogy and one of the greatest comic book movies of all time... The Dark Knight (2008). Like the final season of Game of Thrones and Quantum of Solace, maybe Batman and Robin got too rushed and happened too soon. I don't hate Batman and Robin and I think the problem with it was that it was too done much like the 1960s TV show starring Adam West and it lost the dark aspects of the Batman mythology. That's why I loved Batman Forever cos it balanced the comedy and the drama so well and that's why it worked.
Hot damn Schumacher is fascinating. Growing up I only knew him for his Batman films which one I'm ambivalent and the other I can't stand. But he also made some of my favourite films in Lost Boys, Falling Down and Phone Booth and the rest of his filmography is pretty decent. And I'm not huge Burton Batman fan either, although Burton as an Elseworlds Neo-Gothic interpretation hits better for me than Schumacher's kind of modern version of the 1960s show, and both views are valid. I think there was some middle ground between the two where it could have been fun.
Honestly Joel Schumacher doesn't get enough credit for how beautiful his Batman films are. The lighting, the smoke, the set designs, the costumes (minus bat nipples), use of colours, breath taking wide shots, and how he combines all of that throughout the entire duration of his films. All the other Batman films look so mundane and monotone, his is the only that looks lively and so gorgeous at night. It's a shame no other film has even came close to replicating that aesthetic even when many science fiction and fantasy could've used them.
Damn had no idea what this movie could have been. While the plot sounds interesting the only thing that makes me wary is how it would have been executed. Great video! Glad you're able to share what could have been when it comes to films👍
This movie definitely could’ve been fantastic. It has an interesting story and has some cool ideas. However I’m really glad that we got the Dark Knight Trilogy. At the same time I always like going back to rewatch Batman and Robin. It’s still a fun guilty pleasure movie. Thanks again for sharing more cool secrets about another amazing project like this. Batman will always be one of my favorite characters and I will never stop supporting him!
Awesome video! Schumacher was absolutely capable of making a darker film. Just go watch 8mm with Nick Cage. I do find it funny in the script that the fear toxin would "drive Batman insane". He was already nuts. A grown man dressing up like a bat would be considered insane in real life. I'm wondering if Schumacher ties in his original meaning of "Batman Forever" in that he will never escape the urge of crime fighting?
The funny thing is that I had ALL the action figures, vehicles, etc. for the first two movies, including Wayne Manor and the Batcave sets. I never bought any of the toys from Forever or B&R even though I loved them both. CAP.
There was a premiere at Atlanta's famous Fox Theater. On the local news that night, the debut was discussed along with the plans for film 5. It struck me as odd that, without the film yet in wide release, the sequel was talked up. It was like the studio had already moved on without giving film 4 a chance to breathe.
Joel would have been great for a Batman Beyond Film similar to Lost Boys. All the futuristic colors, teen angst and comedy with horror would have been redeeming for him.
if joel schumacher made spiderman movie it might be weirder then bat man movies he made we might have jim carrey playing Character green gobline and peter parker being played by jonathan taylor thomas
I feel like Batman forever and Batman & Robin are criminally underrated, and I would’ve loved to have seen a work where we could’ve had both Joel Schumacher’s 5 th film and Batman begins. Since I utterly love the idea of all the villians reuniting all together similiarly to Spider-Man: No Way Home.
I Would of Loved to see Batman Unchained it Sounded like it would of Made a Great Film it's a Shame it wasn't Made, I Would of Loved to of Seen Chris O Donnell as Robin again and Schumacher's Gotham as well.
Batman is the kind of character that fits the darker and mature themes and tones of the superhero genre. Marketing Batman Returns to kids in the first place was WB's mistake that costed the success of the franchise and the artistic flair of Tim Burton - which could have continued on to future movies of this Batman franchise and make it one of the greatest superhero film series ever.
The idea of having a darker sequel to Batman Forever called, "Batman Unchained" brings us to the return of Batman villains(Michelle's Catwoman, Jim Carrey's Riddler, Two-Face, and Nicholson's Joker), with the theme being about guilt and fear would've been awesome. Honestly, I believe the term, "Unchained" definitely brings back conversations Bruce had with both Nicole's character Chase and Carrey's Riddler about how "We're all two people, One in daylight and the one we keep in the shadow", to life. This should have been what Batman and Robin at least tried to be but badly failed.
Warner Bros. Pictures Presents A Tim Burton Production A Joel Schumacher Film Michael Keaton Chris O’Donnell Nicholas Cage Courtney Love “Batman Unchained” Based on the DC Comics Characters Michael Gough Pat Hingle Michelle Pfieffer Special Appearances by Tommy Lee Jones Danny DeVito & Jack Nicholson as the Joker Music by Danny Elfman Special Makeup Effects Created by Rick Baker Costume Design: Bob Ringwood & Mary Vogt Production Design: Barbara Ling & Bo Welch Cinematographer: Matthew Leonetti Editors: Stuart Baird & Dennis Virkler VFX Supervisor: John Dykstra VFX: Boss Film Studios, 4-Ward Productions, VIFX, Illusion Arts, Digital Domain, Industrial Light & Magic Batman Created by Bob Kane & Bill Finger Written by Mark Petrosevich Executive Producers: Benjamin Melniker & Michael Uslan Produced by Tim Burton & Denise DiNovi Directed by Joel Schumacher
It would cost less money to hire those actors now and de-age them than it would be to hire them all around the year 2000. Carrey alone would’ve cost $25m.
they probably would have gotten half the villains back realistically if this was made, but they should have only used the Schumacher villains it would have been way confusing to add the Burton villains later on, I think they should have let Tim Burton continue the series with Michael Keaton as Batman then made villains for the Burtonverse for another film
If they'd pulled off this cast reunion, it would have been Nicholson and DeVito's 5th film together, and Nicholson and Pfeiffer's 3rd. If they'd perhaps included Mr. Freeze (so at least Clooney would fight one of his own guys), it would also have been the 4th with Schwarzenegger and DeVito.
Regarding the Flash ending, it should be pointed out that was a forced reshoot by James Gunn and never intended to be the original ending. Actually it was the 3rd ending to the Flash shot. Original ending was suppose to involve both Keaton Batman and Sasha's elseworld Supergirl which was intended to lead to both the now cancelled Batgirl movie and the solo Supergirl movie. Just wanted to point it out because there was literally no thought put into the Clooney ending of Flash outside of "Kill off the DCEU for good. There's no more future movies".
If I'm not mistaken, originally, Joel wanted to do a prequel/sequel for the third film & Keaton was fully onboard & loved the idea. Miller's Batman: Year One was to be the inspiration. Unfortunately, the studio turned it down & Keaton left. Long story short, Joel was the puppet & Warner Bros. were the "puppeteer". Not your fault, Joel.
It should have been called BATMAN Always. And the villains should have been, along with Scarecrow, should be Scarecrow and The Mad Hatter. Since they both are dressed up fairy tale characters scarecrow from The wizard of Oz and mad hatter from Alice In Wonderland
I wish this movie would of came out, I remember being a kid and hearing rumors of a fifth movie in the original film series coming out before the year 2000
Jack Nicholson’s Joker, Danny DeVito’s Penguin, Jim Carrey’s Riddler, and Nicolas Cage aa Scarecrow, all in one movie… we were robbed of one of the greatest ensemble cast of all time
Just watch Faceoff to see how Nick was going to be a villain. I think Nick would make a terrible Scarecrow.
Few needed to be there, if at all. Stunt performers, silhouettes, and smoke could have trimmed down the budget. All that were needed is a few hours of recorded dialogue and a few for their time. Heck, the young Napier actor from Batman could've appeared in makeup with Mark Hamil's menacing laugh filling in the blanks in the viewers' minds.
All it takes is a little bit of creativity and it could've happened on budget and as a big hit.
No we weren't that would have sucked. Clooney and the nipples finished it.
@@biguy617he probably wouldn't of done it anyways he was doing superman lives at the time.
@@ScaredStraightProductionsSuperman Lives
Schumacher made plenty of movies that show me he could have done a serious Batman movie: Falling Down, The lost boys, Phone Booth, and 8mm as some examples.
Joel Schumacher was forbidden by McDonald’s to make a serious Batman movie. Batman Forever and Batman and Robin was actually ghost directed by Ronald McDonald. I’m glad Hollywood studios no longer tolerate interference from corporations. They stick to product placement which is as it should be.
@@bratton79the studios *are* the corporations!
His style of filmmaking was so gothic and theatrical...all the shadows and fades and dutch-angles. As Tim Burton showed, you can create a highly stylized take on Batman while still being true to the source material. Every time I watch The Phantom of the Opera, I get sad that Schumacher never the chance to make the Batman film he could've.
@@bratton79 Big Western companies, US gov (with the UK, EU below them), US, UK & EU networks and along with big Hollywood studios, they're all part of the same thing. With the first 2 helping each other in their own interests and corpo networks giving them credibility as "trusted sources" and Hollywood making the mental programming through media. US agencies also decide certain Hollywood scripts. Usually the ones related to those agencies or war related.
Just one of several examples, Lord of War was made with funds from somewhere, not Hollywood, because it criticizes what the US gov. do and they pretend they don't, make the contrast with Black Hawk Down, which is filled with lies, Hollywood style.
In short, US supported a ruthless ruler in Somalia for 20 years, because he served their interests. He got overthrown by the people; US left when that was close to happen, returned 2 years later to put one that serves their interests again, while trying to look as saviors. That film is only about "we're good, we only save the world and again".
Joker didn't die at the end of the first Batman 😊
I honestly feel bad for Joel Schumacher. He wanted to bring the Batman films back to its darker roots, but WB insisted on making them more light-hearted.
Feel bad? He he made two piece of crap and you feel bad Unchained didn't happen? 🤡🤡🤡
@@DragonFist9323did you watch the video at all. The theme of the video is about producers hindering what the director actually wanted to do. So it is not known what the movies had been like if Schumacher was not forced to make kid friendly and toy oriented movies by the producers.
@@Severindk87 cool story clown
Michael Keaton said otherwise.
@@DragonFist9323cool comment clown
People need to realize if it wasn’t Joel, the studio would’ve hired another director to do it.
I appreciate looking back now Joel’s aesthetic to the Batman franchise as I grew up fascinated and just wowed as a kid of all the colors, action, and dare I say, its campy acting.
It has a place in the Batman universe，just another rendition.
I’m not mad at Joel nor wish someone else had directed it AT THE CURRENT TIME OF BATMAN’S POPULARITY.
Thank you Joel.
Joel was so under appreciate as a filmmaker. One thing that man never gets any credit for was how beautiful his Batman films are. Outside of Bat nipples, the design and overall aesthetic to his Batman films I still say are the best to date. All the other Batman films look so mundane and monotone in comarison. Only Tim Burton's comes close to having any life to it.
Now modern superhero movies look so ugly now as they all basically just devolved into people standing in front of a video game screen. I'm just crossing my fingers maybe one day someone would try and replicate the design and aesthetic to Joel's Batman films and use them for like a science fiction or fantasy film to really give the world life.
Because dorks that think they know filmmaking thinks the director controls everything.
I like how the Lego Batman games were heavily inspired by his version of Gotham.
The inspiration for the Lego Batman game trilogy also included Paul Dini & Bruce Timm's Batman: The Animated Series and Tim Burton's Batman and Richard Donner's Superman and Stanley Ralph Ross, Douglas S. Cramer, & Wilford Lyod Baumes' Wonder Woman.
Side note: I never understood why parents complain that a movie is marketed to kids when the same movie is PG-13. It's the rating of the movie, which is advertised! 🤷🏽♂
Because of the Happy Meal Toys and such!
@@joen8529 It's still a PG-13 movie. It's clearly labeled as a PG-13 movie on posters, trailers, and ads. I was a kid when Batman Returns came out and I wasn't allowed to see it in theaters because my parents saw that it was PG-13 and I wasn't old enough. I had to wait until it was on video to watch it, after my parents first. This kind of stuff still happens today with parents getting upset taking their kids to watch a that's a little mature because it's PG-13. Parents should be upset with themselves and not movies that are clearly rated by the MPAA.
@@RudieObiasexactly. Parents were complaining about McDonald’s selling Batman Returns toys more than anything else
because happy meals are not for 13 year olds
Parents were not complaining that they made their kids see it and it was too mature
They were saying it made the kids want to see it and they had to say no.
@@alumlovescake Geez, I guess parents can never say "no" to their kids ever, huh? 😅
They just should've let Tim Burton continue. He can make movies that have a proper balance of dark and campy, like Beetlejuice. Scarecrow, Man-Bat, Killer Croc, and Clayface would've been perfect villain additions to Burton's universe, since Burton usually makes scary films.
Yep. WB was more concerned with merchandise than the quality of the movie which hit then more in the wallet.
100% agreed
Except Batman Returns was awful
@@darkknightsdsIt wasn’t awful it’s not for you
The studios gave Burton too much creative control for Batman Returns and yeah... he just made a depressing, if not somewhat mean spirited Batman movie that was just a massive downer and mood killer. Yet another good example why you don't give creators full reign over movie franchises.
Batman and Robin is an irredeemable turkey, but I will contend till my final breath that the production designers knocked it out of the park. Gotham has never looked so phantasmagoric before or since. If these visuals were paired with a movie that took itself seriously, we could've gotten a visual, if not necessarily narrative, masterpiece.
I'm totally ok with B&R being goofy and I enjoy it to this day. Because it is well crafted film, which just doesn't take itself very seriously. I don't get ppl's strive for realism and seriousness when comes to fictional characters. That's how we ended up with more realistic movies about Batman or Harry Potter than those about Napoleon. Maybe it's time to start rethinking priorities.
The visual effects looked great.
I know they are vilified but I loved the silver and black costumes in the third act. They were over the top but goddamn awesome!
Agree. I always liked Schumacher’s visual sense, even if the content was questionable.
The story certainly seems like it had great potential, but imagine how expensive all those cameos would've gotten. Silverstone was not comfortable in that Batgirl costume and wasn't eager to return, so, I'm not surprised she was written out. I do agree that it wouldn't be impactful having Clooney's Batman going up against Nicholson, DeVito, and Pfeiffer. That's IF Clooney stayed on. He quickly moved onto films like Out of Sight, Three Kings, O Brother, Where Art Thou?, and Ocean's Eleven, establishing his star power and charismatic screen presence. I can't see his career without those major stepping stones being the same.
After Batman & Robin's reception, even with a darker tone I'm 100% certain that audiences would've seen Clooney in the batsuit again and went "No thanks".
Even Batman Begins struggled at the box office years later with people still associating Batman with Schumacher's goofy tone. No way a sequel to Batman & Robin would've done well.
Agreed. The well was poisoned.
Those folks must not have watched the trailers of Batman Begins or did any research. Not only would they have realized the movie was a REBOOT and thus having NADA to do with the previous movies, but the trailers alone would also show how GOOD the movie was likely to be. I hate when people want to use one movie's failure to justify not wanting to see the next, even if there's evidence layed out beforehand for them to see why this movie needed to be given a chance. As far as a sequel to Batman & Robin is concerned, while its reasonable to think it wouldn't do well if the same team came back, all it takes is good writing, directing, and marketing to get things back on track. A sequel to a seemingly bad movie can work but very little has it been done because studios don't want to risk disaster, which is reasonable. On the other hand, I want to imagine how many bold and successful turn overs we could have had for the sake of keeping the continuity stable and bringing about a solid conclusion with franchises that did have that one bad entry that just ended a series entirely and or before some fancy remake, reboot, or retcon sequel came about afterwards as a lazy way to course correct things. I rather see more of that so studios aren't so quick to give up on a series and take the easy way out. I would have waited to do a sequel to Batman & Robin, around the same time as Begins and maintained that movies style and tone. I bet you a Begins like sequel would have surely done better than what one might have believed.
@@devontehuntley6274 Problem is the whole idea of a big movie reboot wasn't really a thing before that. They'd never really done a "We're starting from scratch and telling the origin" thing. Nowadays we're used to it but back then a lot of people thought this was meant to be the origin of Michael Keaton's one.
@@R1ch4d8 Oh, it was certainly a thing more so by the middle and end of the decade. We had reboots starting from the end of the 1990s decade and through the first half of the 2000s. Quite a few of these movies were hits, particularly with the horror genre which really gave the trend its uprising. With Batman Begins, it clearly was not associated with the Burton movie. The tone was entirely different, the setting looked to be modern day, the outfit was far more advanced, like there was no reason for anyone to think this was a prequel. Even if it was, it clearly doesn't have the style of the Schumacher movies but instead have a serious and polished look that would indicate this movie is to be something of a do over and worth giving a shot. Audiences are just dumb and quick to judge for all the wrong and misguided reasons.
@@devontehuntley6274 I don't think it was. As far as big, long-running franchises go anyway. Even stuff like Friday the 13th and Halloween hadn't been rebooted yet. Stuff like the 90s Godzilla and The Mask of Zorro weren't really "reboots" cos they hadn't been a well-established franchise in America before that, they were just modern adaptations of an old thing. Where Batman Begins was one of the first big instances of a recent franchise disregarding everything that came before it and starting fresh. I was 14 when trailers came out and I knew it was a restart instantly, but for a lot of other people you tell them "There's a new Batman film coming out" and they picture Jim Carrey screaming cos they didn't really have a reference for a "reboot".
It’s amazing just how badly WB fumbles the ball with their DC properties to this day
Cavill, Snyder and Afleck got a raw deal. Snyder’s biggest mistake was having Batman facing off with Superman so early for really no reason.
Disney is a souless assembly line production but they atleast keep that assembly line well oiled.
Yeah, they never learn from their mistakes, do they? 😡
@civilwarfare101 the comment has literally nothing to do with disney
@@Smithchipsareodd
The point is that they were more compentent than WB all though that might not be true anymore.
It's weird that the plot was focused on this Batman overcoming his "fear of bats".
*What* fear? If Clooney was meant to be a continuation of Keaton and Kilmer, neither of them had any problem around bats in their films, and neither did Clooney in his. Kilmer even said about his childhood flashback seeing the bat in the cave "I was scared at first, but only at first." Keaton even had a pet bat in a little cage. What was the writer talking about?
Yeah it’s a little strange, I agree.
I was thinking the same thing. Keaton had bats flying around his cave in Batman 89. He used bats to distract Penguin before falling through the window.
@@heybrowhatup I know. And the implication that Keaton's Batman just kept a bunch of bats in the backseat of his boat is hilarious.
Like, this character arc makes sense in Batman Begins cos they set up from the first scene that Bruce Wayne has an intense phobia of bats, so when he conquers it it has impact. Where with Batman Unchained it'd be like "Y'know that fear of bats that this guy never had before? Well he's better now."
Those films always had a loose continuity, so I don’t think they were too concerned with throwaway lines and such from previous films.
It’s worth mentioning that, for the sake of peak 90’s popularity, reuniting the bulk of the previous villains + one ascending Nicholas Cage in one movie was considered the most expensive movie/dream sequence of its time, and that was just the movie pitch. Despite insisting on script and concept alteration to boost toy sales, Warner wasn’t too keen on spending that much to course correct after its previous iteration flopped
Heard of the story and I thought that the concept was brilliant. It's unfortunate that it never came into fruition 'cause everyone agreed that, "Batman & Robin," was too much.
Fun Fact: Batman & Robin is part of the reason why Tim Burton's, "Superman Lives," was cancelled.
And it's not even that bad. People should embrace the nipples.
@@narcisosanz8137I feel the Audience hates the jokes and weird lore more than the costume
Now I’m really interested in seeing Nick Cage as Scarecrow and seeing what he would have done
I’m guessing that the makeup effects would have required the best in the business, Rick Baker.
Joel Schumacher will always be a great Filmmaker Phone Booth is one of my all time favorites. We understand that he was forced to make his two Batman movies more for kids by the studio. He seemed like such a chill dude too with a good sense of humor.
I agree with you it wasnt Joel fualt B&R bomb at the box office it was WB they just wanted to sale toys
I think this movie could have been amazing, just like Affleck’s solo film. I do understand why it didn’t happen, but part of me wishes this fifth film would’ve been made.
Nah. The reimagining of Harley Quinn's character is awful. Between that and considering how expensive this flick would have been, it would have done worse than the awful "Batman and Robin" dumpster fire.
Schumacher was an extremely talented director and has several great films. I think the flaws of Forever and Batman and Robin were largely not his fault. This could have been a very solid film. Huge fan of Schumacher's visual style in Lost Boys, and Flatliners. It's likely best this didn't happen, but I think he had some great ideas.
Great video, as always! To your point about the Joker confrontation with the Clooney Batman possibly not working as intended because it wasn't Keaton, I don't think audiences in the late 90s were as concerned about shared universes and alternate timelines as they are today. Hardcore Batman fans didn't have the platform to voice their displeasure far and wide like they do today with social media, and shared continuities weren't a part of superhero movie marketing like it later became with the MCU. I think if Clooney were to have donned the Keaton/Burton era costume, at least for that specific scene, I think it would have worked.
Circa 1997/98, I read that Jeff Goldblum (and even Howard Stern, although that may have been apochryphal) were being looked at for The Scarecrow, and that Jenny McCarthy, who Joel Schumacher had wanted to play Sugar in Batman Forever, was also being looked at for Harley Quinn, alongside Madonna and Courtney Love.
It's interesting that Cage was considered for Scarecrow, seeing that this is roughly the same period they were thinking of making Superman Lives with Cage as the lead.
All true. I think Cage was the bigger star so naturally he was their first choice over the others.
@@Bulletsandblockbusters True, and as you suggest in the video, at the time, the Batman films were casting the biggest stars for each villain (i.e. Nicholson, DeVito, Carrey and Schwarzenegger). Cage, who was coming off mega-hits, The Rock, Con Air and Face/Off, as well as a recent Oscar, would have fit that bill, but, it's also true to say that Goldblum, who physically fit the bill for The Scarecrow, was at the height of his popularity thanks to Jurassic Park and Independence Day, which were the biggest hits of their respective years, and featured Goldblum as a scientist, albeit a good scientist, in contrast to the less virtuous Dr Jonathan Crane.
I feel like Joel Schumacher was one of the many directors controlled by Warner Bros in terms of his vision for his Batman film's,Not only did he want to do an origen story and that got scrapped by WB but even his version of Batman forever was totally different and had quite a few scenes cut....So time and time again WB will continue to smother certain directors who don't have that much control as of yet in the industry and ruin what could be great film's in the process that's why we didn't get a Flash movie up until 2023 and that's a whole other story
Well said and you know what this would have been pretty good this could have been the best Batman film of the Schumacher films.
After Batman & Robin's reception, even with a darker tone I'm 100% certain that audiences would've seen Clooney in the batsuit again and went "No thanks". but honestly i think we can SAFELY say, we were actually thankful this movie didn't happen and Nolan rebooted to the masterpiece that it came to be
Batman and Robin did serve a certain purpose - little kids did love it! My sons watched it tons when they were little - and to young for The Dark Knight etc.
You should of showed your sons Batman Returns i was obsessed with that as a kid and still am at 32 years old
Show them tje Animated Saga
It's weird how the studio wanted a more kid friendly and light hearted Batman movie, so they turned to the guy who made WAY darker films (Falling down, a time to kill, Veronica Guren,8MM) than Tim Burton.
Only one of those har been made before his Batman movies. Prior to 1995 he'd directed a lot of movies, but didn't seem to have a consistent style or sensibility, just going by his films. Prior to his Batmans I don't think I ever watched a movie and thought, "ah yes, this looks like a Schuhmacher." He was mostly a chameleon. He could make bawdy lowbrow comedy like DC Cab, an edgy thriller like Falling Down, genre material like Lost Boys, family pleasers like Incredible Shrinking Woman, or just in-flight movies like the Client, Cousins, St Elmo's Fire. I got the feeling he was tabbed because he coukd make whichever kind of movie a studio asked him for. Nothing outstanding, but always competent.
So that is why Michael Keaton didn't return. He didn't like the direction Batman was going.
I always felt it interesting how Batman Forever incorporates some elements from Burton's Batman Continues (such as the Riddler as the main villain), Batman Begins has elements from both Batman Unchained and the Aronofsky's script, while Reeves's film has few elements from Affleck's movie (like the psychological approach). There's a continuity between all the Batman movies that you can see only if you look at the unproduced ones.
I dont care what anyone says, they should have went ahead and made this movie. From everything I researched about this movie, the story sounds amazing and love the idea of tying the other movies together with bringing back the dead villains. Love the idea of Harley being Joker's daughter. This movie was made in an alternate universe
I know most people defend Clooney in Batman and Robin saying it was a bad script but truthfully Clooney was always a bad choice. In interviews, he said that HE pushed for his Batman to be lighter and less tortured, feeling the audience wouldn't feel sympathy for a billionaire.
Even if he played it straight I think he was a bad choice.
Thank you I get so tired when I hear those dumb complains that he just needed a better script I feel like the same goes to the 2000s Fantastic Four really don't get the renewed love that movie is getting and Clooney was always miscast there's a reason why he wasn't brought back in the Flash and it being Michael Keaton
Kurt Russell was rumored and he would’ve been a great choice.
@@heybrowhatup Side note, Pierce Brosnan was considered for the 89 movie and I think he would've been a great choice.
Personally, I don't think it's impossible for a filmmaker or an audience to embrace a more at peace Batman. He wouldn't quit, Gotham will always need him, but a Batman who doesn't brood over everything can work. Look at the Arkham games. They're dark and Batman takes the threats seriously, but we dont get Shadow style soliloquies about justice at the same time. Balance is possible.
This series is one of my favorite on TH-cam atm
Thanks!
You’re welcome my friend keep up the amazing work! I remember piecing together some details online of concepts for superhero movies that weren’t made and I’m so happy that you’ve been releasing these well thought out explanations. It heals my inner nerdy child in some way 🥲
Edit: well researched not well thought out
Haha much appreciated!
This is my big issue with some Batman fans out there - They are so quick to just crap on Schumacher. In reality, he was just doing his job and honoring the studios wishes. Hell, or demands. I do agree that while it would've been cool to see the villains from the past films again, I don't think it would've hit as hard with Clooney's Batman. Especially those from the Burton movies. Great video!
Agreed and thanks!
Before I heard about this movie, I thought that if they ever made a 5th one directed by Shumacher, they would do something campy like bring the joker back from the dead. I still cannot believe how accurate that is, even though he would’ve come back as a vision or something.
There were also rumors that Howard Stern (yes, Howard Stern) was tapped to play Jonathan Crane/Scarecrow & Crane was going to be Dick Grayson's Psychology College Professor. I'm glad this never happened because then we would never have gotten the Christopher Nolan Batman trilogy.
That first draft Batman Unchained script is amazing. I wish they had made that. I remember a contest on the Batman and Robin VHS tape for an extra part in the fifth Batman movie.
Spider-Man: No Way Home did what Batman: Unchained could not was bringing villains from past movies both the Raimiverse and Webbverse and Joel Schumacher never got his chance to redeem himself and franchise. Now that he passed away his name will go down in history as the guy who directed one of the worst superhero movies of all time.
It's funny. Joel Shumacher also made Falling Down. A Batman film in that ballpark would have been much better. Most of Schumacher's films outside Batman are fairly serious and dark.
Spider man no way home was the movie the flash could have been, but Warner bros blew it with all the cuts, and getting Ezra miller as the flash even though he’s a pervert and a sick man who should have been fired. They should’ve recast the role. And also they should’ve left the original ending with Michael keaton’s Batman returning along with supergirl and the rest of the justice league from the Snyderverse. And we would’ve had seen both Ben affleck and Michael Keaton as Batman in scenes together.
@@Rezzaninedoes that include the film adaptation of Andrew Lloyd Webber’s “The Phantom of the Opera?”
I never knew about this one! It sounds like it would have been pretty interesting. Having Nic Cage and Courtney Love as the villains would have been wild.
Some of these story elements also found their way into “Batman: Arkham Knight.”
Batman Forever : Directors Cut I would like to see
I don’t think it would’ve been much better to be honest. A lot of the footage has been released.
I think the film might have been better with most of the deleted footage restored.
''everybody had nipples...''
Schumacher rest well.
I feel like after Nolan's movies... every film maker is coming out saying, "Yeah, I was gonna make something like that..."
💯
Nolan Batman overrated bruh its mostly just Bruce Wayne in those movies
I hate the idea of Harley being Joker's daughter.
I immediately thought the same thing. And as they talked more about her character, the worse it got. They basically wanted to completely change her character.
Exactly
They did this plot in Batman TAS. Joker was the judge, Two face was the prosecutor.
Ppl in the comments saying Joel made the two worst Batman movies and that he couldn’t do dark but there is a lot of deleted scenes from Batman Forever that really prove how dark he could go.
There is one were Bruce finally comes to realize that it wasn’t his fault that his parents died
I agree. Joel could def go dark! His other films are proof of that.
@@Bulletsandblockbusters I really wish they would go and watch some of his other work in all honestly. Because just like you said his other movies prove he can go there
Batman unchained could easily have been a perfect ending for the Batman franchise ending the franchise on a high note while also being a best film of a best franchise.
I unironically and unabashedly love Schumacher's vision for Batman and Gotham. Forever is a genuinely good film. I don't like Batman and Robin, but I DO like that it's a kind of lavish and stylish production he was able to get away with.
I would LOVE to finally see the Schumacher Cut of Forever see the light of day.
The studio was seriously considering making Batman Beyond.The studio wanted Clint Eastwood to play an older retired Batman in a future Gotham.
I grew up watching the Schumacher Batman movies. They will always have a special place in my heart.
I want to see Nick Cage as Scarecrow.
Would’ve been amazing
Should’ve just stuck with Tim burton and wb could’ve had it all
Its such a shame that they couldnt make this happen. It really may have been the turn around the series needed back then.
Interesting concept, but Clooney's Batman doesn't really fit. It could've been great to see Keaton in a movie like this, exploring guilt that Batman felt. In some ways it's a shame this won't see the light of day.
Luckily, some elements of this failed film are going to be used in the comic Batman ‘89: Echoes
Love the design of the Scarecrow/Jonathan Crane. Can't wait for it.
It's so unfortunate that Joel Schumacher had to deal with so much negativity from fans for Batman and Robin when that wasn't even the movie he wanted to make and hell Batman Forever wasn't even the movie he wanted to make he wanted to make a very dark Batman movie but if course WB said No which lead eventually lead to Batman and Robin and Joel suffered a majority of the blame which it should have been WB should have got all of the blame
Yeah, I think Joel Schumacher got too much flack for how his Batman movies turned out.
@@roberttreacy8271 I know right
Was that English?
@@roberttreacy8271 Definitely. His non-Batman work was serious and quite dark. Imagine if he'd got to make a Batman movie with that approach.
After watching his darker films, I think he could have made a great Batman movie, If only WB let him.
Even as a kid, I always believed the Burton and Schumacher films to be set in two different timelines.
Damn, this really made me open my eyes. Schumacher didn’t ruin Batman, the execs did.
Such a shame Batman Unchained never got made. I remember back in 1997 before Batman and Robin was released, I read a magazine, and it was rumoured Jeff Goldblum was going to play The Scarecrow in Batman Unchained. Batman Unchained would have been a truly great Batman movie. It was for the best cos we got Christopher Nolan's successful and influential Dark Knight trilogy and one of the greatest comic book movies of all time... The Dark Knight (2008). Like the final season of Game of Thrones and Quantum of Solace, maybe Batman and Robin got too rushed and happened too soon. I don't hate Batman and Robin and I think the problem with it was that it was too done much like the 1960s TV show starring Adam West and it lost the dark aspects of the Batman mythology. That's why I loved Batman Forever cos it balanced the comedy and the drama so well and that's why it worked.
5:17 You forgot about Bane, Poison Ivy and Mr. Freeze, have you?
Hot damn Schumacher is fascinating. Growing up I only knew him for his Batman films which one I'm ambivalent and the other I can't stand. But he also made some of my favourite films in Lost Boys, Falling Down and Phone Booth and the rest of his filmography is pretty decent. And I'm not huge Burton Batman fan either, although Burton as an Elseworlds Neo-Gothic interpretation hits better for me than Schumacher's kind of modern version of the 1960s show, and both views are valid. I think there was some middle ground between the two where it could have been fun.
Honestly Joel Schumacher doesn't get enough credit for how beautiful his Batman films are. The lighting, the smoke, the set designs, the costumes (minus bat nipples), use of colours, breath taking wide shots, and how he combines all of that throughout the entire duration of his films.
All the other Batman films look so mundane and monotone, his is the only that looks lively and so gorgeous at night. It's a shame no other film has even came close to replicating that aesthetic even when many science fiction and fantasy could've used them.
Another outstanding video man! I got so excited when I saw the topic for this one and you did not disappoint!
Awesome! Thank you! Glad to hear it.
This is quickly becoming my favourite channel. Excellent content!!
Number one fan right here! Since day one!
A version of this still needs to be made!
Damn had no idea what this movie could have been. While the plot sounds interesting the only thing that makes me wary is how it would have been executed. Great video! Glad you're able to share what could have been when it comes to films👍
Thnx!
@@Bulletsandblockbusters now I want to see how Nicholas Cage would have been as Scarecrow 🤔
This movie definitely could’ve been fantastic. It has an interesting story and has some cool ideas. However I’m really glad that we got the Dark Knight Trilogy. At the same time I always like going back to rewatch Batman and Robin. It’s still a fun guilty pleasure movie. Thanks again for sharing more cool secrets about another amazing project like this. Batman will always be one of my favorite characters and I will never stop supporting him!
Awesome video! Schumacher was absolutely capable of making a darker film. Just go watch 8mm with Nick Cage. I do find it funny in the script that the fear toxin would "drive Batman insane". He was already nuts. A grown man dressing up like a bat would be considered insane in real life. I'm wondering if Schumacher ties in his original meaning of "Batman Forever" in that he will never escape the urge of crime fighting?
Thanks! And agreed he was def capable of making darker movies. And LMAO Batman is def insane. Agreed!
They should've done this instead of Batman Forever and Batman and Robin
The funny thing is that I had ALL the action figures, vehicles, etc. for the first two movies, including Wayne Manor and the Batcave sets. I never bought any of the toys from Forever or B&R even though I loved them both. CAP.
I wish Tim Burton was able to do four more Batman movies with Michael Keaton.
Kiefer Sutherland could've been good as Scarecrow.
He would've had the appropriately creepy look and voice for the character.
There was a premiere at Atlanta's famous Fox Theater. On the local news that night, the debut was discussed along with the plans for film 5. It struck me as odd that, without the film yet in wide release, the sequel was talked up. It was like the studio had already moved on without giving film 4 a chance to breathe.
Joel would have been great for a Batman Beyond Film similar to Lost Boys. All the futuristic colors, teen angst and comedy with horror would have been redeeming for him.
if joel schumacher made spiderman movie it might be weirder then bat man movies he made we might have jim carrey playing Character green gobline and peter parker being played by jonathan taylor thomas
Batman Forever was the first Batman movie I seen in the cinema, I was 6 and I still love it.
Sometimes it's good that ideas get shelved. Like this one.
Batman Triumphant just sounds so cool though
I feel like Batman forever and Batman & Robin are criminally underrated, and I would’ve loved to have seen a work where we could’ve had both Joel Schumacher’s 5 th film and Batman begins. Since I utterly love the idea of all the villians reuniting all together similiarly to Spider-Man: No Way Home.
Schumacher really meant Batman Unchained as sort of apology gift to Batman fans for the awfulness that was Batman & Robin.
With some of the superhero movies out lately I say that Batman & Robin is no longer the worst.
I Would of Loved to see Batman Unchained it Sounded like it would of Made a Great Film it's a Shame it wasn't Made, I Would of Loved to of Seen Chris O Donnell as Robin again and Schumacher's Gotham as well.
Batman is the kind of character that fits the darker and mature themes and tones of the superhero genre.
Marketing Batman Returns to kids in the first place was WB's mistake that costed the success of the franchise and the artistic flair of Tim Burton - which could have continued on to future movies of this Batman franchise and make it one of the greatest superhero film series ever.
Without Harley being the daughter, this would have been a brilliant film. Though I do like the Shumacker movies, this would have revolutionized cbm.
I seen the words "Joel Schumacher" and "Batman" in the same sentence and felt really angry for some reason
Must still have PTSD from his two films
I.. I still.. remember.. the.. movies. Noo!
😂
The idea of having a darker sequel to Batman Forever called, "Batman Unchained" brings us to the return of Batman villains(Michelle's Catwoman, Jim Carrey's Riddler, Two-Face, and Nicholson's Joker), with the theme being about guilt and fear would've been awesome. Honestly, I believe the term, "Unchained" definitely brings back conversations Bruce had with both Nicole's character Chase and Carrey's Riddler about how "We're all two people, One in daylight and the one we keep in the shadow", to life. This should have been what Batman and Robin at least tried to be but badly failed.
Warner Bros. Pictures Presents
A Tim Burton Production
A Joel Schumacher Film
Michael Keaton
Chris O’Donnell
Nicholas Cage
Courtney Love
“Batman Unchained”
Based on the DC Comics Characters
Michael Gough
Pat Hingle
Michelle Pfieffer
Special Appearances by
Tommy Lee Jones
Danny DeVito
&
Jack Nicholson as the Joker
Music by Danny Elfman
Special Makeup Effects Created by Rick Baker
Costume Design: Bob Ringwood & Mary Vogt
Production Design: Barbara Ling & Bo Welch
Cinematographer: Matthew Leonetti
Editors: Stuart Baird & Dennis Virkler
VFX Supervisor: John Dykstra
VFX: Boss Film Studios, 4-Ward Productions, VIFX, Illusion Arts, Digital Domain, Industrial Light & Magic
Batman Created by Bob Kane & Bill Finger
Written by Mark Petrosevich
Executive Producers: Benjamin Melniker & Michael Uslan
Produced by Tim Burton & Denise DiNovi
Directed by Joel Schumacher
Nicolas Cage as Scarecrow is so fucking good.
It would cost less money to hire those actors now and de-age them than it would be to hire them all around the year 2000. Carrey alone would’ve cost $25m.
The tech isn’t there yet.
WB never understood the point of the DC heroes.
Get a load of this guy
The rumor of Howard Stern being casted as Scarecrow always was too funny to me, even funnier than the man himself.
Glad to see the Joel Schumacher Nipples ET Clip show up somewhere, it's one of mt fave out of context interview clips. Great Video BTW
How many freaking roles did cage almost get?
Haha a lot
90s cage was somethin else
they probably would have gotten half the villains back realistically if this was made, but they should have only used the Schumacher villains it would have been way confusing to add the Burton villains later on,
I think they should have let Tim Burton continue the series with Michael Keaton as Batman then made villains for the Burtonverse for another film
lt should be made as an animated feature, designed in a way that makes Batman an amalgam of Keaton, Kilmer and Clooney...
Agreed
If they'd pulled off this cast reunion, it would have been Nicholson and DeVito's 5th film together, and Nicholson and Pfeiffer's 3rd. If they'd perhaps included Mr. Freeze (so at least Clooney would fight one of his own guys), it would also have been the 4th with Schwarzenegger and DeVito.
The plot for "Unchained" had potential, and seeing Cage as an unhinged Scarecrow would have been fun (similar to how he played Ghost Rider).
This series is how I found the channel. Great videos
Welcome aboard!
The Joker returning would have been wild!
It's now in comic form not it exactly but in the Burton verse and with scarecrow and Harley Quinn
Regarding the Flash ending, it should be pointed out that was a forced reshoot by James Gunn and never intended to be the original ending. Actually it was the 3rd ending to the Flash shot. Original ending was suppose to involve both Keaton Batman and Sasha's elseworld Supergirl which was intended to lead to both the now cancelled Batgirl movie and the solo Supergirl movie.
Just wanted to point it out because there was literally no thought put into the Clooney ending of Flash outside of "Kill off the DCEU for good. There's no more future movies".
If I'm not mistaken, originally, Joel wanted to do a prequel/sequel for the third film & Keaton was fully onboard & loved the idea. Miller's Batman: Year One was to be the inspiration. Unfortunately, the studio turned it down & Keaton left.
Long story short, Joel was the puppet & Warner Bros. were the "puppeteer". Not your fault, Joel.
Didn’t know that Nic Cage was supposed to be Scarecrow, I would’ve 💭 it would by Brad Dourif like how it was supposed to be in Batman Continues
Can we take a moment to acknowledge how fantastic Elliot Goldenthal's Batman music was? Imagine it in a serious film.
It should have been called BATMAN Always.
And the villains should have been, along with Scarecrow, should be Scarecrow and The Mad Hatter. Since they both are dressed up fairy tale characters scarecrow from The wizard of Oz and mad hatter from Alice In Wonderland
I wish this movie would of came out, I remember being a kid and hearing rumors of a fifth movie in the original film series coming out before the year 2000