Avoid this mistake when designing an Engine in Automation | Powerband Tutorial

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 ธ.ค. 2024

ความคิดเห็น • 107

  • @the.bavarian
    @the.bavarian  6 หลายเดือนก่อน +92

    Please let me know if you like this format and which other topics you would like me to cover. Thanks!

    • @bernardoguimaraes9474
      @bernardoguimaraes9474 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +22

      Really quick and good lesson, suspension tunning is problably one that need this kind of info!

    • @alohai3537
      @alohai3537 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

      very good, something i had a lot of trouble in the beginning, was engine reliability, now i pride myself in keeping it high, but i can see how many people would have problems with it too

    • @blackstenor3209
      @blackstenor3209 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      I dont know how many times it took you to make this video but i appreciate it :)

    • @coryman125
      @coryman125 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

      This format is great! There are a lot of things I've picked up from your videos, but it's very useful to be told exactly why things should be how they are. It helps to understand things on a more fundamental level. Plus it's just fun!

    • @Marv06576
      @Marv06576 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@alohai3537 Almost 400 hours in, I still don't know what is a "good" reliability score lol

  • @cbxsix
    @cbxsix 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +92

    Well explained! I'll add my two cents as an automotive engineer, if I may; the engine power curve that will produce the best performance in your vehicle is the one that has the most average power over the engine speed range that will be used, and that speed range is a function of the gear ratios in the transmission. To utilize a 'dyno queen' engine you need close ratio gearbox with very many gears. But a reasonable road car with 4-5-6 gears in the transmission will probably have a 20 to 30% step between gears, meaning that if you upshift at redline the engine speed will be 20 to 30% lower than redline RPM after the shift. For a 5000 RPM redline, for example, the engine will be turning 3500-4000 RPM after the shift. So the best performing engine will be the one with the most average power between 3500 and 5000 RPM, in that case.
    And that's only for full throttle acceleration - for good driving manners and fuel economy, having good torque down at the engine speed where the car cruises is important too, as Der Bayer mentions in the video.

    • @doylerudolph7965
      @doylerudolph7965 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +13

      This is the secret strength of the CVT, and why it was banned in F1 before it ever hit the track - engineers could design an engine with the most absurd tiny power peak, but the transmission could keep the engine snugly at that peak at all times.
      I wish Automation allowed us to make racing-quality CVTs.

    • @the.bavarian
      @the.bavarian  6 หลายเดือนก่อน +10

      Very nice explanation! I tried to keep things a bit more basic and and short in the video and already feared it would not be in-depth enough for some of the audience :)

    • @HazewinDog
      @HazewinDog 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

      That's a great explanation. I tend to avoid explaining it to people cause it gets too in depth when I try, but yours might be short and easy enough. I'll probably pin this in a modding channel if that's okay!

    • @PuncakeLena
      @PuncakeLena 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

      ​@@doylerudolph7965Yeah that sounds like it'd be the obvious choice for a top speed oriented car

  • @KillrobPlays
    @KillrobPlays 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +47

    There is a built-in stat in Automation that helps you better see the realistic performance of the engine: the "Performance Index" which is the average engine power in kW in the top 30% (or something similar) of the rev range. Maximizing that value will be a better indication for racing performance than peak power. Cheers!

    • @MrHamof
      @MrHamof 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Do you even remember when you made your own version of this video? It was way back when Automation was just an engine designer.

    • @06dpa
      @06dpa 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

      What I would love to see is a vertical line on the powerband to tell where shifts put the revs, since we already have engine graphs based on the car it's in. Would make it easier to understand visually.

    • @the.bavarian
      @the.bavarian  6 หลายเดือนก่อน +10

      You're right, I probably should have pointed at the Performance Index for quick tuning guidance!

    • @KillrobPlays
      @KillrobPlays 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      @@MrHamof I do not remember that, no :D but it certainly is a topic that has lived in my head and says hello whenever I see dyno queens haha

    • @KillrobPlays
      @KillrobPlays 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      @@06dpa That would be possible, but you'd probably want to see that as a graph variant in the gearing graph so that you can tune the gears right away. The "don't cut the power curve" is something you learn once and then do for all engines, proper gear tuning is something you do for every car/engine combo.

  • @csikolaszlo563
    @csikolaszlo563 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +13

    THIS! So many people tend to get hogged up on the "peak" stats of an engine. I personally try to go for x amount of torque between a specific rpm range (generally lower), which helps massively when building the engine. Also, gearbox and tyres matter a lot for acceleration (especially in the later stage of campaigns, 80's-00's cars). I wish we'd had diesel engines for this game, however they can be simulated relatively easily since the turbo revamp as well as all new types of fuel(s). As for this type of content - I'm all for it. I personally might do Automation guides, tips and tricks on my own (other) channel, to help newer and less understanding players with engineering. Do continue if you want to make this a series! Love your content man.

  • @hpoz222
    @hpoz222 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +9

    wanted to touch a little bit more on why you don't want your peak power at redline; first of all, you might actually be losing potential power if your redline is too low, but even if your redline is right at the actual power peak, you're still losing a significant range above the peak where the engine is still making close to peak power. That range keeps the engine in its powerband for longer and also can potentially mean the car is closer to its peak power once you upshift (i.e. it doesn't "bog down" as much)

  • @Snarklz
    @Snarklz 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    I love the idea of explaining the rhetoric and thinking process around the elements of designing vehicles in automation. It's challenging in the game as it stands to understand if what you are building makes a 'good' vehicle or just makes good numbers on screen.

  • @wanderer2688
    @wanderer2688 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +11

    Ah, I see you're making great progress checking the Mille Monti cars and you needed to make this video to vent your frustration over our awful design choices lol

    • @the.bavarian
      @the.bavarian  6 หลายเดือนก่อน +7

      You're exactly right :D

  • @Spaze_muffins
    @Spaze_muffins 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

    Man, you need to do video like that on so much subjects. Short, precise and straight on point = really helpful

  • @maurovandevelde9659
    @maurovandevelde9659 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +12

    Great format idea, I'd love more of this! :)
    As for a suggestion topic: General tips to make the car more driveable in beam, more balanced in the corners, more predictable ...
    Or, because I really don't understand it (yet); HOW, IN THE NAME OF ALL THAT IS GOOD AND HOLY, DO YOU TUNE A TURBO?!

    • @the.bavarian
      @the.bavarian  6 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      The video about turbo tuning will need to be longer than 3 minutes :D

    • @HazewinDog
      @HazewinDog 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      I had finally figured out turbo tuning pretty well and then they changed everything. Turbo tuning is tough lol. I don't play a lot of Automation either, so it takes time to learn new things for me. Watching Killrob has always been my biggest aid though, he explains both new game features and his thought process in let's plays so well.

    • @the.bavarian
      @the.bavarian  6 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      @@HazewinDog I am also still struggling a bit since the turbo overhaul. But in 1-2 episodes we will get turbos for Cisalpina, so maybe I can hide a quick tutorial in there :)

    • @something7992
      @something7992 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      @@the.bavarianwhat are your thoughts on adding standalone gearboxes like in real life where it can either be like the engine page where the initial cost is a bit higher but prolonged cost will be lower if you use the same one, and say if you made a transverse front engine you could take the same assembly (with some fitting time/engineering obviously)

    • @the.bavarian
      @the.bavarian  6 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      I think it is too much micromanagement. The campaign already is overwhelming enough when running an average company (my companies are usually quite lean on purpose to keep things manageable).

  • @leond8479
    @leond8479 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

    Short, informative, on point. I think videos like this could make a fun and helpful tutorial for many. I also wouldn't mind deep dives on some topics like this.
    Maybe another topic could be (turbo) charged vs. naturally aspirated engines?

    • @the.bavarian
      @the.bavarian  6 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      The short format helps to keep editing and preparation times down - I already spend way too much time on the big campaign playthrough. So more in-depth tutorials probably need to wait a bit :)

  • @gt4lex
    @gt4lex 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    The thing is in this case, you'd want to raise the rev limit on the gold engine so that you'd get back into the high power zone after shifting. Now of course, that's assuming you can do this wihout blowing valves or something else through the bonnet. Then, you'd also want to modify gear ratios to be closer and final to be shorter if you're not shooting for higher top speed, increasing acceleration further.
    Sure, in general, you want to maximize the area under the power curve through the range of RPMs you're gonna be using the most, and having a linear power curve that peaks right at rev limit is very stupid, but there is also a world where you flatten the curve too much for a racing application and just lose potential. In the end, the whole powertrain is a system, and considering the engine alone is not a good approach. A close ratio gearbox won't be great with a wide powerband at low - mid RPMs, while more spread out gear ratios will not allow you to get the best out of a peaky race engine.

    • @the.bavarian
      @the.bavarian  6 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      I probably should have said that this applies when the engine internals are already at their limit and don't want to rev any higher. Of course for any motorsport application you normally go for the maximum rpm limit possible. So the video applies to the case when you already have set your rpm limit.
      You're also right about it's not only about the power/torque curve, but about the overall car and especially gearing. The whole thing is less of a problem the more gears you have available.

  • @kaleb4184
    @kaleb4184 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    I'd love a tutorial on the ins and outs of exhaust/intake tuning
    Right now I just kind of match the flow graphs but I'm not entirely sure if that's correct

    • @the.bavarian
      @the.bavarian  6 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      If you're matching the flow graphs you are already doing half of the job right! The other half is about different resonances for the different header types, basically giving you a torque/power boost at specific rpm ranges (higher ranges for more sporty/racey header types). That's the short tutorial, I'll note the idea down :)

  • @deknegt
    @deknegt 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Great content, Bayer. I would love to hear more general tips and tricks about Automation from you. I generally love that you focus more on more natural builds, rather than just trying to make the most insane 500KPH automobile that the game mechanics allow, which would never exist in real life.

  • @jmit126
    @jmit126 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    I like Automation but I very much do not understand it, so videos on the topic of how to build for a given purpose - economy, utility, prestige, sport, racing - would be much appreciated!

  • @davestopforth
    @davestopforth 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    Most people don't really understand the relationship between torque and power, even though they'll tell you that they do. People also underestimate gear ratios and their effect on wheel torque.
    Having an engine with max RPM 500RPM higher than peak power also has the potential to allow you to use a higher average peak torque/power, and gives greater flexibility with gear ratios

  • @eclips524
    @eclips524 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Absolutly wonderful. We NEED more of this!!

  • @GarlMemory
    @GarlMemory 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Thanks for the advice man.
    Looking forward to your next Cisalpina video !

  • @DaniBatkataBG
    @DaniBatkataBG 25 วันที่ผ่านมา

    I love making turbo engines, allows me to better spec out my engine and deliver the torque I need for both fuel efficiency and speed

  • @MrHamof
    @MrHamof 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

    It's mildly funny to me that Killrobs version of this video was made back when Automation was just an engine designer.

  • @AlKaafii
    @AlKaafii 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Hello first comment from Indonesia here.
    I'd like to learn more about suspension in automation and in beamng. Maybe a comparison between everyday use and track use would be great. Or if that's too much a different to compare, it might be better to compare suspension for light sports car and track car.
    Btw, I really am enjoying your campaign series. Thanks

  • @benbreeck3363
    @benbreeck3363 4 วันที่ผ่านมา

    What I try to do, after variable valve lift is available, if I am building a sporty engine, is to place the main cam profile fairly low (around 30), the second cam profile fairly high, and turn the turbo so that it kicks in about 1500 RPM before the second cam, to minimize power delivery valleys.
    Before that, I go to DOHC valvetrain but keep cam and ignition timing fairly mild if have no means to tune the engine to keep linear gear shifts strictly within the power band.

  • @ZE1WHO1
    @ZE1WHO1 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

    This is the best explanation of power curve
    Personally i rarely fall for this power trap i do prefer nice and flat power "shelf" as i call it

  • @HazewinDog
    @HazewinDog 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Great video! The only thing I'm missing is a reference to the Performance stat. This is often highest when you have about 500rpm to spare, depending on the power band of course. So if you're not sure you're what's better, that should be a good indicator. I don't know how accurate it is, though.

    • @the.bavarian
      @the.bavarian  6 หลายเดือนก่อน

      You're absolutely right! It's a generic stat guiding you into the right direction, but in the end it all depends not only on the torque curve, but also on gearing. The stat definitely points you towards building less peaky engines, so it is a good guidance and I should have mentioned it.

  • @GoodMenstruationAttitude
    @GoodMenstruationAttitude 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

    great video; we should try and get this stickied on the automation groups!

  • @xenoyparxi
    @xenoyparxi 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Ferrari 360 has peak power at max rpm (~395hp @ 8500rpm). But up until that point for about 1000rpm the curve stays relatively flat. So not cutting off power is good, but what people should really be aiming for is a usable relatively flat curve before max rpm (at least with sporty engines), even if peak power is at max rpm

    • @the.bavarian
      @the.bavarian  6 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Real car companies (and their managers and their customers) also fall for the numbers game :) You need to have a higher power number than your competitor, as this adds additional prestige in the real world. Automation does not simulate this in the campaign though!

    • @xenoyparxi
      @xenoyparxi 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@the.bavarian yeah, but still before shifting you've got 1000 rpm range of flat curve, so they did put some effort into making it usable lol

  • @Stale_Mahoney
    @Stale_Mahoney 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

    this is a great video for allot of players out there, as it always bugged me With cutting power at Peak

  • @Bobbie_1999
    @Bobbie_1999 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

    It always irritated me when people on youtube made these kind of engines with a powercurve and rpm limit combination that makes no sense. This video cures that irritation :D

  • @FieryDawn
    @FieryDawn 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Ah, thanks for letting me know. I was building dyno-queens...

  • @thecosmickid545
    @thecosmickid545 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Very useful video, I've made that mistake myself

  • @cyberleone00
    @cyberleone00 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

    so many hours never thought of this. thank you haha

  • @Franzeba
    @Franzeba 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Pls make more videos like this

  • @gozinatorrorlandozimbana2716
    @gozinatorrorlandozimbana2716 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

    We def need more video like this

  • @bones-fe3gy
    @bones-fe3gy 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Der Bayer with a Der Banger as per usual. also if you didnt know, those fixtures exporting as white can be fixed by selecting them in automation and changing the material. The chrome it defaults as is broken.

    • @the.bavarian
      @the.bavarian  6 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Yeah I didn't double-check my beam exports this time. Visual quality was an afterthought for this video :)

  • @Anaksimandros512
    @Anaksimandros512 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Very informative video thanks! Like many people im always struggling with suspension and handling setups. My cars can't take corners very well. Can you make a short and informative video like this?

    • @the.bavarian
      @the.bavarian  6 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      idea noted, thanks! :)

  • @RogerKeulen
    @RogerKeulen หลายเดือนก่อน

    Think MR V send me here 👋
    Great game. Still need to buy it.
    Watching the tutorials first before i begin to tinker around.

    • @the.bavarian
      @the.bavarian  หลายเดือนก่อน

      Welcome! Unfortunately I don't have many real tutorials yet, but I hope you can extract a bit of knowledge from the playthroughs! :)

  • @ProfesjonalnyYoutuber
    @ProfesjonalnyYoutuber 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Can you pleas make a tutorial how you make interiors? What mods you use stuff like that. your interiors look great even though you say you don't spend much time on it. Also how about some tips and tricks in designs? I saw you using vents of all things for lights and even wings for details and taillights

    • @the.bavarian
      @the.bavarian  6 หลายเดือนก่อน

      noted, thanks! :)

  • @skunkylite
    @skunkylite 15 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

    Hast du nen Video für engine making? Weil meine Motoren haben immer ne sehr hohe torque curve und low Hp und andere Probleme.

  • @Ang3lUki
    @Ang3lUki 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    This reminds me of RCR talking about the differences between the Viper and late generation Corvettes. The Viper he noted has poor low-end torque, and with the car's long gearing it doesn't easily jump off the line like the Corvette does, but makes much more power later on in the curve.

  • @czech_r_bestjdi_se_vycpat5023
    @czech_r_bestjdi_se_vycpat5023 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Der bayer not missing lately

  • @karolusyt836
    @karolusyt836 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    More moovies like this :)

  • @Starij_Perdun
    @Starij_Perdun 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Never thought about it. Time to build proper sport engine and stop torture valves while trying make power curve straight at 12,000 rpm's limit

  • @Dragon-mw8bs
    @Dragon-mw8bs 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Great video!!!!!

  • @renereissig-hochweller3228
    @renereissig-hochweller3228 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Thank you so much for the very good tutorial can you post tutorials on how to play a campaign in different styles like luxury or sport ? That would really help me because every company I build always goes bankrupt after about 3 years

    • @the.bavarian
      @the.bavarian  6 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Yeah I want to do a "campaign basics" tutorial a lot, although it needs a bit of planning. Your issue sounds like one of these issues (or a combination): Not good enough cars, overproduction, not enough profit margin.

  • @zestyrabbit
    @zestyrabbit 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I know nothing about the engineering side of this stuff nor can i read the graphs that well because im stupid lil country boy but even i get this right (also i usually feel it out through testing if im messing some thing up on a engine and generally try and keep the engine as smooth as possible and not peeky)

  • @BeanRally
    @BeanRally 5 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Hey! I'm building some cars for a rally series in my channel, and this will actually help me quite a lot!!!

  • @justcallmenoah5743
    @justcallmenoah5743 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Any idea when the mm content will be done?

    • @the.bavarian
      @the.bavarian  6 หลายเดือนก่อน

      No concrete information about the timing yet, but I am working on it almost on a daily basis.

  • @jimmydesouza4375
    @jimmydesouza4375 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Maybe it is my eyes playing tricks but the bad example torque curve looks flatter than the good one.

    • @the.bavarian
      @the.bavarian  6 หลายเดือนก่อน

      You're probably right, the "good" example as a large torque bump in the mid range, so it does not look as "flat". What I meant was that mid-range torque should get a lot more attention and you should not only focus on top-end torque/power.

  • @houseking9211
    @houseking9211 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

    As someone that daily drives a car with juicy midrange and peak power nearly 700rpm before redline with torque for days, I know not to make this mistake.

  • @35SF
    @35SF 6 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Look my LS / Small Block Chevy inspired engine can't take anymore rpm 😭

  • @icrafterchips
    @icrafterchips 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

    What microphone do you use?

    • @the.bavarian
      @the.bavarian  6 หลายเดือนก่อน

      In this case I used a cheap Samseon Meteor USB Mic (without pop filter as you might be able to hear in some spots). Sometimes I use my Beyerdynamics MMX 300 headset.

  • @las10plagas
    @las10plagas 11 วันที่ผ่านมา

    my curves are always upside down 🤷‍♂

  • @Wendelvendel
    @Wendelvendel 5 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Thank you!!!

  • @TheRPGofLife
    @TheRPGofLife 5 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Brilliant vid! Please update your mod collection on steam as it crashes my game upon loading!

    • @the.bavarian
      @the.bavarian  5 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      That's weird. I will investigate after the Mille Monti stuff, as my own collection is completely messed up with all kinds of mods right now.

  • @Jgg-Ace
    @Jgg-Ace 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Remember to paint your bumpers crome in automatio, otherwise they come out as white in beamng.

    • @the.bavarian
      @the.bavarian  6 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Yeah, I didn't double-check the exported cars, as I wanted to be quick with this video and visual quality was not my top concern :)

  • @nravenz7538
    @nravenz7538 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Thanks!

  • @widjojohuang7854
    @widjojohuang7854 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

    No wonder why nuovavia that u make was pretty slow 😅

  • @Not_Dane_Heart
    @Not_Dane_Heart 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Great video, love this style, too bad I make arhana shit boxes instead. Who needs a radio in 1990

    • @the.bavarian
      @the.bavarian  6 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Yeah, probably not the right video for you then :D

  • @docslappy8946
    @docslappy8946 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I would never do that with an engine. (Cough, cough).🤥

  • @NovumSB
    @NovumSB 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Yes

  • @TheModmc
    @TheModmc 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

  • @neobow8411
    @neobow8411 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Got it