LCV4.2 Tuning Tutorial: NA Engines
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 12 ก.ค. 2024
- Just a brief tutorial to show you the basic flow of creating solid naturally aspirated engines in the revamped engine designer.
Automation - The Car Company Tycoon Game
Steam Page: store.steampowered.com/app/293760
FAQ: discourse.automationgame.com/t...
Discord: / discord
Instagram: / automationgame
Twitter: / automationgame
0:00 Intro
0:51 Basic 2L I4 DI (2012)
4:48 Lazy 2.5L I6 Carb (1950)
9:26 Sport 3.2L V12 DI (2020) - เกม
I feel that when trying to replicate real life engines they always come out underpowered. Especially in career mode where spam on quality slides increases project time.
Yep pretty much every single time for me my engines are completely missing the mark for power. Even with the best tune I can do (without just making a ridiculous racing engine) I can’t even get close to what I could before (which yes, it was too easy to get absurd engines before). Glad low end has been sorted out, but I think the high end calculations need some definite rebalancing. Make the top end slider have more of an effect on peak horsepower like before. I think power output is also too reliant on family quality right now. Designed a 70s engine. 400 months of engineering time for an engine that can barely make 60hp/liter. I really wanna love this update, but the lack of power is starting to ruin it for me.
It is really close to realistic (maybe 2-4% low) in terms of torque and power outputs. Major manufacturers would have ~5-8 tech pool in many of the categories, and a whole lot of familiarity built up with various tech. That means they can run at +5 like you in sandbox can at 0 quality at the moment. The solution is not to let you recreate IRL engines with 0 quality again as you could before, that would give those who can use quality way OP. Instead the solution is to make you have access to techpool and some familiarity in sandbox to simulate you building a car as a company with an R&D department and not a n00b out of a shed.
Of course, a wee bit of tuning of the parameters will still be needed, but overall we're quite close.
This update made me realize just how damn impressive some engines are in real life. I always looked at the engine in my car, the Subaru FB20D as a bit lackluster seeing how it only makes 150hp, when honda has been getting well into the 200s in the early 2000s, but after spending 30 minutes optimizing a recreation of the FB20 i got the numbers barely equal to real life without race parts and as equal specs as i can find online, and man its pretty hard to make a NA 2.0 engine make more than 130hp.
I also want to say I am happy that the peak power and peak torque rpms are now accurate. before i could get the power and torque numbers right, but the rpm it made them at was way off. Now the power is perfect, and my automation engine makes 5 more ft/lb of torque than the real car but the rpm is correct. built the car to spec with gearing, flow optimized undertray, tires, and weight and the car gets roughly the same fuel economy as well, within 1 mpg. (unrelated sidenote, i got a suggestion about the power split being ineffective, when the car and power split are both perfect 50/50, not sure if thats a bug or if the game is telling me 50/50 power is bad)
Overall I am extremely impressed with this update for the realism aspect, cant wait for sequential turbos and superchargers.
Thank you! Yes, it currently (as of hotfix 2 for the engine designer revamp update) is a little too hard to make realistic engines, but they are very close indeed. :) Just needs a tiny buff in the right areas and this is really spot on for NA engines. I find it funny that the same people who complain about being a few % short on power now didn't complain about being like 30% short on torque in the low end before the update xD it was proper bad!
When accelerating your weight distribution is going to move in accordance with the rate of acceleration. 50/50 weight distribution, 45/55 or 40/60 power split, at minimum. Also the less power directed to the front wheels, the more they can turn while accelerating or maintaining speed.
I made a 1600cc i4 na engine go 238hp, its about compression ratio and air fuel ratio balance, and engine head(cams)
Very useful tutorial. I'd love to see another tutorial on matching engine tuning to transmission gearing for performance , and another setup for maximum fuel economy.
That's a good idea :) will do that once we've done the mini-revamp of the drivetrain section.
@@AutomationGame Ooo drive train, hopefully we'll see some torque converter tuning for autos
@@AutomationGame possibility of cvt?
Structure? To my tuning? Preposterous! I will get my power any way I like, *and you can’t stop me!*
Haha okay okay, you do you :P
When I first opened the new update I definitely felt a little overwhelmed and in just the first 5 minutes of this video I feel like I have the knowledge to go and take another crack at it. Fantastic video!
It sure all seems very complicated at a surface level, but actually it is easier than before to make good engines :D Cheers
Just what I needed
Turbo one to follow :) cheers!
Thanks for this. It'll be a big help.
No problem! Cheers!
I hope You're planning to add more mechanical design variety. Like custom V angles, custom cylinder numbers, more layouts (Radial, H, VR, W), liquid/air cooled, more complex suspension design, different type of gearboxes, etc. I guess You already have this (and many other things for us gearheads) in mind, but it takes a lot of time to implement without game crashes, etc.For me, the hardest part for now is to manage the company to make any profit =D I have a mechanical mind and all those economics are tedious for me. Guess I need more time to understand it. Anyways... You created a truly awesome and challenging game and it had much potential to be a game which can be played endlessly.
I tryied ti recreate my Classic Car engine... A 903cc OHV 1 barrel carb 4in line engine and It was almost the same as Real Life. So I actually adaptated the gearbox too ti reach similar/same performance the car.
I have reached the same hp and the same performance... That's Amazing. I wonder to see more engine like a V4 a rotative and diesel... But I think that this Need so much time to be programmed...
Guys you done an incredibile work with this game. Keep going.
It sure did take a long time to make :D glad you're enjoying it!
Looks very nice. Still waiting on Superchargers and belt-driven turbos.
I tried replicating a few real life engines using the new update and it feels like they're a little underpowered vs. their real life counterparts. Are some buffs potentially in order?
Potentially yes, but I will need to investigate really well made replicas in game with good tuning. I think we're already much closer than with old Automation when you compared torque curves beyond just the peak numbers.
I like the methanol and the nitro fuel better it makes feel more Realistic
Things are really nice, just give us dual exhausts on inline sixes.
Maybe eventually :D
@@AutomationGame can we get to decide basically how much our vvtl works
Like decing both lift and duration in one slider so if we max out the slider the kick will be like some of the ridiculous vtec crossovers out there instead of small bumb
A massive difference
Could you bring back DevMeth? One of my favourite things was to build silly engines and it's harder without it.
They should Also increase the rev limiter imagine building a F1 engine that way
No, devmeth was a fictitious 200 RON petrol fuel, all fuels available now are real fuels, including Nitromethane which basically is rocket fuel, stoichiometric AFR at 1.7:1. If you want high octane, go for LPG for instance. You can build plenty more silly engines now than you could before :D
Cheers
@@AutomationGame weird, i didn't see thoose, gotta go back and check
Your 50s engine is almost exactly how I start too lol. 20-25 cam profile and on a similar engine I start about 7:1 compression
I love this update, my hp/liter itch has been scratched with the new turbo calculations. There's still something that, to me at least, seems broken in them but to be fair I'm pushing the limits with my build so it's not a big problem. I do not understand how the fuel mixture slider is supposed to work, the engine only gets benefits from running as lean as possible, the power barelly changes but I get a lot more efficiency using the leanest mixture, it also seems to not affect knock as well. Keep it up
Possibly a more lazy engine, as a leaner burn means less throttle response.
I havent even touched the update yet tho :P
Lean setting just kills the throttle response
@@8Hshan i noticed that, but I'm 99% sure it does a LOT of other things irl as well. It should mess with knock and power a lot. But this update feels good
I am quite sure, that the timing gets (automatically) retarded by going so lean. -But I dont know why it does not affect your power.
I will have to try it out myself I guess.
This video made me realize how much I miss Killrobs videos...
0:06 Quake Engine tuning guide? Thats Unreal..
5:54 awkward Lua error just had to interrupt.
Haha yeah, that lua error coming up for when there are no turbo options available :D Easy fix!
For me this was a good update :) for me the best part always was to create the engines and now i can finaly tune them almost like a real engine 👍 however i personly feel like there still should be a slider for ignition timing so we dont have to tune the engine by increasing or decreasing the compression because i have the feeling that we have a fixed ignition map on the engine. So i would love to see that we can change the the ignition map just like the fuel map :)
The timing map is fully dynamic, it takes everything into account for the current engine operation state and then calculates how much timing needs to be pulled at this particular spot to not knock. A timing slider just doesn't work then, because what would that adjust if you have on average some 6000 different dynamic values for the timing of one engine?
@@AutomationGame i understand this but working with cars irl . Somtimes deciding if the timing is more or less agressive is beneficial
And we adjust the compression to balance it
Yes, because you're the manufacturer, YOU can easily choose what compression to run for the engine, the tuning guys in a shed can't do that, so instead they have to fiddle around with AFRs and timing. If they could, they'd probably dynamically adjust compression instead :D
@@AutomationGame I've seen tuning guys increase compression in a shed. That happens when you machine mm of the top of the blocks.
I feel this made it slightly unrealistic for old engines which would only have basic setup such as fixed timing, but even vacuum and mechanical advance would not be able to replicate those timing maps. But overall i feel this is a large improvement to the game making modern engines way more realistic cant wait to see what you do next 😁
Have you seen some of the magic manufacturers have pulled off with centrifugal and vacuum advance? They pretty much could shape it the way they wanted, as a low poly version haha. We've implemented it this way, which seems good enough: they get the EFI full tune map, but they get an octane penalty for the full fuel system to simulate that they need to keep a much larger margin due to not being able to make it perfectly. The outcome in stats is realistic, but the timing map is that of a modern car.
Maybe I'll get around to modeling something for older cars at some point that makes it look better, but for now that is functional! :)
@@AutomationGame don't rush yourself this game is art it will take time, as i said this is still a major improvment overall love the plenum slider making engines with a single throttle used to be so restrictive, dont want to hate just want to make suggestions
And a good suggestion it is, I appreciate that :) just wanted to clarify our workaround for the correct observation you made.
if my engine is to high on over 100% valve flow percentage, even after adjusting carbs, manifold and intake a bit. Do i need to change engine size or type? Or is there something else working well go get more flow through them? I don't want to much Cam Profile.
None of those things change valve flow. What changes valve flow is: bore, cam, family quality, top end quality, and indirectly stroke (by lowering the capacity while keeping valve area the same). Try those things! Valves don't need to be at 100%, for undersquare eco engines 130-150% is fine even, but that means you're losing top end performance while gaining low end performance.
Setting the fuel map to lean advances timing. The fuel map graph gets much greener on lean setting, but the timing map does too. The engine gives the most power *and* is the most efficient as lean, all at the same time. Shouldn't it be either efficient *or* powerful? Running rich wouldn't really be logical, if it worked like as it is now.
The only advantage of rich mixture now is that it makes the engine more responsive.
Am I misunderstanding something, or the slider doesn't work as it should currently?
In isolation, both running leaner and richer lowers octane requirements. The maximum knock occurs at 13.1:1 AFR. That is if no surfaces in the engine get hotspots from running lean, which makes for a hotter burn. That effect is not accurately simulated yet, which likely is what you're observing.
Inline 8, Flat 8 + Flat 12. Superchargers.
hur duh
Your list of features mentioned in the FAQ is incomplete :P discourse.automationgame.com/t/automation-faq-updated-january-2019/28489
Commodore 64 version when?
Update seems cool!
:D Cheers!
What is the purpose of adding the VVL RPM slider? Is there any scenario when I want to have a "kick" in the torque, rather than having set it perfectly, like the game automaticaly setting it in older versions?
IRL manufacturers do seem to think that sometimes is a good idea :) we assume that it is because of staying on the low cam for longer gives better economy and emissions. The latter still needs to be implemented, of course.
@@AutomationGame Alright, if it is realistic to have the option, then I'm fine with it, altough an AUTO setting would be useful. Maybe by dragging the slider to 0RPM, it should engage AUTO mode, what do you think?
You didn't touch Fuel Map in sport engine.
And all my sport engines want to run on lean. Is it supposed to be like this? Looks like fuel map slider doesn't work fully.
Then all your sports cars will drive like eco cars and not have sportiness, because they'll lack engine response.
Lean-ish burn produces more power than rich burn. For petrol engines 12.7:1 is peak power, but 13.1:1 is peak knock. Going richer from 13.1 needs less octane and going leaner also needs less octane (but burns hotter). AFR does very little for power IRL, and fact is that old Automation did do that entirely wrong in many aspects.
love the new update, making power has never been easier. However, I can't say the same thing for making efficient engines, maybe it is on me, but I have made some of the most ridiculous down-tuned engines I have seen and they still at best only get 30 MPG. Which isn't that good, not saying it isn't unrealistic, but it seems like a car should be able to get higher fuel economy with a standard two liter, naturally aspirated, fuel injected, inline four.
Something to look into, yes. One thing that needs to be updated is drivetrain friction, as currently that multiplies down power instead of subtracting from it. That can shift the cruise throttles to higher efficiency numbers.
Recently got into automation. And tried recreating an engine I built in real life. And gotta say the numbers I got on automation were within 10% of its real life numbers. My only suggestion would be improving the specs for cam profile because I have no idea what kind of duration, lift or valve overlap im getting when cam profile iS just normal, sport or race. Because when building actual engines that's pretty critical information to know. Should at least be able to tell me lift and duration. I.e. 410 lift and 280 duration. Or 264/272 duration cams with .410 lift. Because cars come often times with mismatched cams for spooling up turbo's faster.
What do you think about integrating the springs and lifter slide into the cam profile like you used to. I guess it could make space for something else. Maybe torque limiter?
No, there are too many instances where you need to be able to fine tune the point of float :) breaking out the springs slider from the cam slider was a good move, we're going to keep that.
I find that in old engines going to 0 timing and low compression gives you more power and torque than any other setting. That's a big issue to me, dumping fuel and higher compression should realistically give you a lot of power more than an eco engine.
I think I've found some sort of bug. I built a 2.7L V6 with a single turbo and Nitromethane and have managed to get over 3500hp from it with the compressor showing 18000% flow (or however it goes) but not breaking. Just wondering if it is indeed a bug or if I can take the credit for such a machine haha
That does sound like a bug, but the question is what datapoint you're getting checked for that value. :D Hard to tell from just some text on the internet haha
@@AutomationGame ye that's fair. How do I retrieve the relevant information for you to work your magic on?
You can export the car for sharing, then send the .car file to our support with a screenshot of what has gone wrong and a brief description :) support@camshaftsoftware.com
Wow
How can you acces the revamped engine designer? I cannot acces it even though I have the game.
The revamped engine designer is in the open beta branch of the game. If you want to access it, right-click on Automation in your Steam library, go to Properties, then Betas. From the dropdown menu, select "openbeta - LCV4.2 Opt-In Alpha" and it will automatically update!
Before you update, you'll want to export any cars you want to keep as .car files first, then import them once the update to the open beta is complete, as they will otherwise be inaccessible in the open beta.
Could we get an updated version? I followed everything you did but all my engines make a weird pinging noise.
We're going to be looking into this when we get back into the office next week.
@@AutomationGame I love you
i made a v12 that got 24 mpg , i thought it was pretty cool
I'm not sure why, but I've tried exporting several +2000hp nitromethane or Methanol cars to beamng. Even if all of the graphs are green, the engine breaks when I start to give it a bit of throttle from a dead stop. If I give about 5% throttle and let it get to ~2200 rpm, I can increase the throttle without the engine breaking. Is this a beamng problem? Thanks in advance
By any chance were you running extremely high boost on your turbos? I ran into the same problem in BeamNG with a Devel Sixteen esque meme hypercar and was wondering if that was the cause
@@rickydas6546 one of them was having the same problem on just .6 bar
Why did you guys get rid of devmeth? It was fun to use in sandbox.
Nitromethane is even better, had a V10 with like 650hp on E85 jumped to like 1300 with nitromethane
We got rid of it because it was pulled out of our arses and smelled that way ;D now you have proper silly REAL fuels instead, check them out!
@@AutomationGame I don’t understand this when we have V16s in the game.
@@masterhighground3677 did not see that option when I looked through the fuels, guess I missed it. Thanks bud!
@@Ishliss2012 Because V16s are also real. What is there not to understand?
Well after 500 hours of gameplay. I think it’s time to put automation to rest. As a sandbox player this technical engine designer sucks. I appreciate all the update videos and feedback you give us it’s just that this update is hot garbage.
4.1 Will always remain selectable for those who prefer that.
Also you have AI tuning available to you so you only need to make the design choices you want and the AI tunes the engine for you, i.e you don't need to be proficient with the technical aspects.
1940d carb engines are awful lol. 60hp and 0 efficiency... Out of a 2L I4..
Check the BSFC graph instead of the efficiency value.
And yes, that seems accurate!
This game is getting waaay to technical. It’s becoming less game and more simulation. Which means less fun to most casual players.
I am not of fan of this update.
Almost 800 hours on steam and 200-300 more before it made it to steam. This game is a technical persons wet dream but quickly losing me as a casual player.
Been 7? Years now. Was supposed to be released December of 2019? Shame.
It’s 2022 and you can’t even build a 2022 model car, kind of embarrassing.
By the time we get a full release ICE are going to be extinct.
Ahh one of my favorite haters! Welcome!
No, it was supposed to release end of 2014 :P Gotta get that right at least, 2019 makes us look too good.
I admit though, it is getting very technical and you do have a point. But let me ask you the question: how is this any more difficult than before when you had to deal with knock?
Literally since it's conception it has always been more sim than just a game. Did you also complain when they added the campaign? Or the body editor? What about when they added turbos? Did that over complicate things?
@@AutomationGame hater? Lol you guys could really use a good PR guy, then maybe you would have more than 300 players at any given moment.
And yea the campaign is a fucking joke, wish it was never added. It’s soo BORING.
I just got such a nice Judge Dread reference in my mind there: "I AM THE PR GUY!" :D
And of course you did not answer my question, as expected from you. ;)
Much love!
/The PR guy
@@AutomationGame hey Rob, I like the way this game is getting more technical, I mean...if you a real car guy why wouldn't you love that? You just get more knowledge on something you enjoy and love. Btw well done with the last update, been playing automation for years now and it just gets better and better. Best money I ever spent! ✌️😎