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Tutorial: Handling & Suspension Tuning
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 ก.ค. 2018
- One of the more complex aspects of any car design is getting the handling and suspension tuning right for the task. This Automation Tutorial video will explain the dependencies and guide you to find good setups for your cars.
More info about Automation - The Car Company Tycoon Game:
Steam Page: store.steampowered.com/app/293760
Website: automationgame.com
FAQ: discourse.automationgame.com/t...
Facebook: / automationgame
Twitter: / automationgame
TH-cam Channel: / automationgame
Very informative, thank you. I used to just change the sliders until the markets were as happy as possible, but this will give meaning to the changes and also give me better guidelines.
Thank you rob, very cool!
It makes tuning a lot quicker when you know what you're doing xD Cheers!
Without understanding those things, suspesion tuning changes into clicker game and it's exactly what I was doing xD
if only this posted long time ago
before i watch this video i barely understand suspension tuning
This game is really nicely made, and pretty awesome, but I feel like it has one problem: It's like it's made for people who like spread sheets. To some extent, that's me, aswell. But while the game is technically impressive and well made (good job!), it fails a bit on the "immersion" side. It feels like once you get past designing the fixtures and body shape, you never see the car again, as it all turns into a game about numbers and graphs.
For example, when talking about how the car will understeer or oversteer, we're looking at a graph that's not necessarily very intuitive to a normal person. I could instead imagine seeing a visual representation of how the car would react to cornering at speed.
Overall, I just wish that we'd actually be looking at the car model more while working on the specs.
Just some thought, I still think it's an impressive game.
Since about 2 years ago we're planning on implementing a radial graph for this with more of an illustration of what is going on as a display of a corner. That will be tricky to implement but will certainly help people better understand what is going on, maybe we'll be able to put that in for LC V3 :) You're correct about the "we don't see the car much" thing, but also we don't want to dumb down the game to the point where it either is mostly a blackbox allowing us to show the pretties, or to something shallow :) the numbers and spreadsheets are what a tycoon game should be (to a degree). It is a mega complex game, and if you don't show all the data and info needed to play it, it would be a mega frustrating game xD Cheers!
With the exporter and the BeamNG collab, we can have our cake and eat it too. The cool thing is that some of my cars which looked boring on paper, because they aimed only for practicality and economy, are actually some of the most fun to drive in B-NG. Once I discovered that, I put more detail into their aesthetics. For me, that's the ultimate immersion factor.
Then again, I am a huge car/engineering geek.
I’m late but i just bought and it’s a great game. If possible I think a 3D representation for testing would be cool. a similar mechanic to the f1 manager games but only for the testing of the car to visually see the weight shifts etc
tbh car companies don't usually spend a lot of time with the body. the engineers usually never see anything physically. only the designers actually see the body per-production. the technicians whom assemble the engine see the engine before the engineers do. it simulates jobs at a car company, and i feel like it's very realistic.
This is my excuse to nerd out for hours, I no longer use any vehicle mods in Beam, just the cars I make on Automation. I wish there was a separate UI for doing interiors, and maybe one for doing wiring harnesses (for us super geeks) and a wind tunnel. One can dream, but I really appreciate the fact this game exists
Just when I was questioning why my not-Porsche handles like soap when reaching 120km/h+.
Thanks for the explanation once again.
Now I'm really curious if you'll ever achieve such help quality in-game once it's released because damn that's gonna be an uphill battle.
I think the plan is to have these video tutorials in game via a video player :)
That's a great idea!
are you planning on adding rotary engines because that would be a cool challange you can do car factory using only rotaries
still no rotary's :(
@@tatacraft791 the answer is: maybe
Idk about rotaries, but we will get diesels eventually, thats confirmed
Still no diesel@@BasedMan
Much help thanks!!! I could barely make sense of the graphs and just tuned off the presents to eliminate the warnings ☺️
this will definitely help me make my cars better!
Very nice! This seems much clearer than your previous video on this subject, which was quite a while ago, IIRC. Also some new info in here as well. :)
I'm seriously addicted to this game now, please make air cooled engines :) Especially an air cooled flat six with all the right noises ;)
Rotary!
You're a man of your word. Thanks!
Edit: very well done tutorial. I actually understand what all that stuff means now!
same, i knew before but now i know beter
This actually helps more than I thought. Still having issues with understeer-graph-but-oversteer-warning though.
Could you elaborate what kind of situation you mean? What does your graph look like?
It's possible the yellow line is over the redline for most of the graph then suddenly snaps to understeer at the end. I have that issue with lightweight, mid engine sports cars. Just takes some plugging away with the suspension setup to fix it.
Sorry, TH-cam wasn't showing replies to my comments -_- Just saw it now.
When I start pushing for more cornering Gs in both slow and fast steering, non-FWD cars tend to give me a yellow warning about oversteer, which does happen in BeamNG.
However, according to the graphs, the line sinks down to the bottom completely, which should mean understeer.
You guys should add Diesel engines and Superchargers to the game
Good idea! I believe no one ever thought of that in the ~6 years this game is in developement! >:]
Description > FAQ
Innosos clearly this suggestion is completely revolutionary and was first revealed to the world 5 hours ago
thegrassmaster2 the devs have stated that they are interested in adding diesel engines to the game, but due to the very large amount of work needed to properly simulate them (completely different combustion cycle) it would only be later and (IMO) likely as an expansion to support the time and money needed to implement them
i love how the video is from 2018 and theres 2020 in the top right, nice video tho now i learned how to tune my lmp1 car!
[NZ coastline] Welcome to RCR New Zealand. [Isaac waves at screen] We were hosted by Camshaft Software, [title screen for Automaton] makers of Automaton, a videogame [Dominion winga dinga] for every gearhead who say [V12 engine in dyno test] “I can make a better car company”. Well, this is your chance to put up or shut up. [screenshot of cam profiling] From cam profiles to [screenshot of fleet marketing] fleet marketing, you do it all [Bryan and Nick walking] and thanks to them, [Nick making notes, Bryan playing with his camera and Andrew chilling] Regular Car Reviews [Ford Falcon XR6] made it to New Zealand, [Toyota Celica GT-Four] the planet’s bonus track. [NZ wave approaches] Sweet as.
i did actually look at the steering graph and have been trying to place it near where i want it to be, though it took some time of learning on my own... i also try to get my car as close to 100% sportiness/drivability when i need it to be
this did help with getting were i wanted to get easier as i know more what i'm doing know
Excellent! :)
As a bit of a car guy I'm right along with the handling tuning mechanics. I was even going to ask where toe tuning was for a minute. However I've tried a few cars from the Automation/the Beam.NG workshop, and have noticed the flywheel masses are often too high to shift without breaking traction, sometimes low. Giving builders some insight to the freeness of revving might be worthwhile.
One car, called the Vol TR1 Tracker, uses over 1000 hp to toe the rear wheels out up to 1.2 degrees total--from 0.3 on each wheel to -0.3 on each wheel in 2nd gear. I believe it has double wishbone suspension. Hard to say since I don't have Automation to try making my own cars. I've tried many cars that have 0.5 or more total rear toe-in under power, though.
I also drove a car called the Kisai RTR6, which almost sounded like the accel and decel samples were switched.
This video helped a lot, thank you.
All that about roll angle, camber etc and what certain cars usually should fall into, please implement that as tooltips.
For those looking to tune their cars for BeamNG, if the road you're driving has many uneven and cambered surfaces with lots of opportunities for suspension travel, don't always listen to the warning in automation about your sways, because body roll is a good thing for weight transfer and predictability.
I've found on most cars that running stiffer dampers is more ideal for roll control than the sways are. The sways are almost always too stiff and will lead to unpredictable tire slip in accel/decel through corners unless they're set to the very lowest level. Completely removing the sway bars from the cars in the BeamNG parts menu usually helps more than it hurts in most of my cars.
Thanks about that
Please make tutorial about brake
I little bit confuse about it👍
Will there ever be caster angle, toe angle, limited slip differential tuning, bound and rebound settings for the suspension?
Thank you for the tutorial, although most is still relevant, an update to current version would be appreciated.
We will be making and updating tutorials as part of the next dev cycle.
Are we getting superchargers soon?
Please?
Is anything on the horizon for being able to make a car without a body and the chassis can be as large or small as you make it so we can make go carts or something similar to F1 racecars
Ohh now i understand comrad!
This is a bit off topic, but is clutch tuning something considering in future releases . since I notice heavy cars seems to struggle with the clutch.
Is the Independent Rear Steering a Beam-Monsters mod only? I have BeamNG and am trying to add this feature to a regular size truck with hitch. If need be, I can buy Automation Tycoon Car Building game if it will allow me to build a vehicle with Independent Rear Steering. Thank you for your help!
just bought the game!
Oh my god this video is exactly what I needed right now!
Why you will not create an version without ue4
I just bought the game last week. Being a truck driver I don't get to play much. I'm still learning but I LOVE tuning cars in games like Forza or grand Turismo, now this gives me a chance to build from scratch and this my friend makes me very happy. I just built my first car with a base trim using an I4 turbo and the sport trim using a high output V6. I made a mistake though as it seems I have chose too large of a coupe body. Seems my body is on par with BMW MY but my set up is more for a Honda Accord coupe. Which is what I was going for since the coupe is no longer made. Is there a video going into more specifics of choosing the right body? I would like to have a lighter set up. My car weighs over 3800 pounds. And the engine looks tiny when I remove the bonnet.
You can check if there are smaller wheelbase versions of the same car body available. When switching out the body just be aware that the visual design of the car will be reset, so that needs to be done before you start designing the aesthetics. :) Anyway, glad you're enjoying it so far!
@@AutomationGame thank you. I'll have to check that out when I get home.
maybe add electric and hybrid cars?
Why are the ride hights so high... i tried to build several different cars (like a 5 series BMW which has a ride hight of 144mm) but i can´t reach that ride hight. It´s allways like 6-10cm higher to still looking normal and not totally lowered (if i go under 180mm the tires go deep into the wheel arches).
Yes, that is something odd we need to investigate :)
How do you tighten the steering on your car's?????
You can't :)
Thanks my car had alot of understeer
GREAT Tutorial.
What are the measurements for them?
Camber = Degrees
Is Spring Stiffness, Damper Stiffness, and Sway Bars in NM?
Probably should be displaying that! :)
What are the odds that we could have an option to add ballast in the front of a car to counteract a heavy rear engine, for example? Some cars do that in real life.
I don't see where we'd fit that in a smooth way :)
My game has crashed like 6 times in the last 1.5 hours. Even after verifying game cache. Did the update break the game?
Are you running the game in fullscreen? If so, switch to borderless window, that might help.
When looking at the graph, it makes it seem like over 70km/h, you cant steer at all anymore, as yaw rate/steering angle goes to zero. It also kind of feels like that in BeamNG.Drive, although I guess that's also caused by the lack of adaptive steering, which makes driving with a controller very hard at high speeds for a guy like me with mediocre fine mechanic skills!
Nah, that's not the case, this is for a constant radius corner :) so of course a tight corner you won't make it through at all after a certain speed :P
I would look into your high speed suspension tuning. BeanMG will fairly accurately simulate the graph Automation gives you for understeer / over steer on the high speed graph. You should have your graph have grip for the highest speed you're able to accomplish. Otherwise, your car will freak out after you past the max speed listed on the high speed graph.
Think of it like this, as the car accelerates it is slowly increasing it's steering angle. At about 55 mph you are are at aprox 8 inches from center (~90 degrees), at that speed and steering angle you are highly likely to either lose the front or the rear. The graph is a short and sweet threshold test to show which goes first and when. When driving normally you would never use that much steering angle at that speed.
I found out that certain Vehicles need a ton of downforce on Beam.ng Drive, to be remotely controllable at higher speeds. I've had to tone down a lot on the HP as well, but the results is a powerful vehicle that's fairly easy to control. Even the van and trucks. You just have to slow down early.. Just like you would for any vehicle of that weight. I actually have 2 lips and 2 spoilers on the heavy vehicles. it doesn't seem to matter what size lip or spoiler you put.. They seem to have the same effective downforce. So just make it look nice
Add in game suspension wiggle pleas
What about the Steering (Fast) graf ? ... How to set up a car to be stable at high speeds ? Will you make video about Aerodynamic?
Is there any written tutorial?
sorry for too much questions.
Same rules apply, but you have suspension setup, tires, AND aerodynamics to consider :) I think people get the concept of "more downforce = more grip" :D
but what is too much down force and what is too little and how much it affect top speed?
And
I can't pass 300 km/h with 500 hp engine. it seems to me weird. I don't know what I doing wrong.
Next time you should show the difference in BeamNG.
Filip Klema Are your aerodynamic good...? If you up the quality of the aerodynamic (engine/brake cooling etc.) then the drag of the car should decrease and the cooling should improve. Exessive cooling will increase drag as well. Adding just a little downforce will avoid lift and allow for a bit more grip at high speed. You don't need a lot of downforce for stability, it increases exponentially similarly to drag. If you need a lot of grip go for downforce, GT racecars rarely go over 300km/h due to downforce. The McLaren F1 had very low downforce to achieve its high top speed but it was loose at those speeds. You could also go for active aero to get the better of both grip and speed.
The Aero undertrays can also affect speed and grip, the smoother undertrays decrease drag, the expensive downforce one increases drag in exchange for more grip. I don't know how much drag the undertray adds in game but IRL the undertrays are the most efficient in Downforce/drag.
You really should make a real car recreations competition and then the person who got it prefect to the real car wins
Dont production cars have the same tire width front and rear?
Well no. FWD cars usually do, but certainly not all RWD cars :)
I made a stupid track car with a 2l flat 6 with 500 horses that does 2.3g cornering on the test track in the game and has a body roll of 1.3°
Why the game cannot run in microsoft visual c++2012 and without directx runtime
Uhh... because UE4 needs it?
Off topic but I really love the music in this game, is there any sort of license needed to use it in my own TH-cam videos?
You are always allowed to use the music in the context of Automation :) beyond that, we wouldn't condone it, but we have no license for it either. If you choose to do that anyway, please link to the game / its soundtrack in the description. Cheers!
Okay thank you very much!
My vehicles keep telling me the roll angle is large, what is too much? I don't want to have to or need to run sway bars as big, or at all if I can.
Nevermind. It was discussed later in the video. Just a suggestion though, perhaps tune the warnings to only come up above 12 and go away at 10 degrees, versus 3 degrees. Not every car needs 3 degrees of roll.
We'll have a look if the warnings are coming on at the correct time.
Killrob, I beg you! I know we now have a lot in automation, but I want me Head Covers back. Also Engine covers would be great too. Thanks ;}
That wouldn't be my doing :P but yes, the engine visuals being customizable will make a return eventually!
Thank god, I want to make my four pot look hella nice. :D
I'm just wondering... How can you have too much braking force, or have too much tyres?
Too much braking force = locked wheels when touching the brake pedal, plus the additional weight is not good.
Too much tire = more grip, but more wheel inertia, slower car overall
Plus, everything has a cost, big = expensive.
Bigger tires also reduced fuel economy/acceleration (if there is no loss of grip with a smaller tire the increased mass is bad) and braking slightly (more mass to stop and more thermal energy tearing and heating up the brakes) due to roll resistance and inertia. Bigger wheels also increase drag, which isn't good for sports cars. Wider wheels are harder to rotate meaning it's awful if the car lacks power steering.
Will there ever be full slick tyres and a "race" category in the markets. Many car companies make race cars for privateers. There's already 100 RON race fuel and race air intakes.
The Dudeface I asked Killrob and he said that would make the game "less realistic", despite the fact that there is a way to make the car not street legal
TCR and GT3/4 isn't a real thing anymore?
The Dudeface They are, I think Killrob has something against racecars
You are mischaracterizing what I'm saying: Automaiton is about production road cars, not race cars. There is no way to sell a car in Automation that is not road legal within the framework of the game (fixtures don't count in that because we want to give you maximum freedom of aesthetic design). 100 RON fuel is fuel that is available in many countries at normal fuel stations, don't confuse that with 100 AKI fuel, which is not available on the market as is.
AutomationGame in my country 98 RON is the highest available fuel, hence the confusion, but there's ways to make the car not road legal already, race intakes, no catalytic converter, no mufflers etc.
...Just click them until things start turning green.
EDIT: Strange how you said passenger cars should be about 6 to 7 degrees. The game warns you if it’s above 5.
If that is so it is a bug with the warnings, anything up to 8 should be considered fine. We'll have a look.
Some mathematic pedantry: I assume that you aimed to tune your car for 1Hz for maximum comfort, and you also said "dont go under 1Hz", however the bump graph shoes a frequency of 0.5Hz, as one oscillation is only completed when youre back to the top of the graph, in this case at 2s.
It seems to be consistent in automation, so the normal setting aims for about 0.5Hz which gives decent values, but you might wanna look into that if you wanna please the mathematic pedants...
The ride frequency is the undamped natural frequency of the system. The graph shows the resulting behavior, which includes the slowing effect the dampers have on the system. Hence, the graph looks slower than what the ride frequency indicates. I showed the example where the damper is set to 50% of the critical damping coefficient and the wave got super long, while the frequency didn't change. All this is based on somewhat proper real life mathematical models for suspensions, it should be pretty accurate. Cheers!
Hm I guess I should have paid better attention to physics! :D
This game would be a lot more easy to play, if it would display a few reference values alongside the scores your car is achieving. I always have a hard time to determine how well my car is doing, so i basically just trail and error through the different options.
Problem with that is how well something is doing depends on your competition, which is your point of reference, and that always changes over the years :) there is a way to compare to your competitors directly though, just click on the demographic in the side stats and you get shown how you score relative to them.
6-7 degrees to comfort? Like... But wouldn't the cars roll angle, be too high??
I'd thought about that too. Until my father got a new Mercedes and that stupid think drives worse than a boat.
So yeah, i guess that the 6 to 7 for comfort is legit. Even if just for old men
The thing is: less roll is better for comfort really, but that means that the rest of the setup would have to be so stiff that it is very uncomfortable. Around 7 degrees you have a good compromise if you aim for comfort.
Add the side travel effect on suspension pleas
And what benefits would adding that have to gameplay?
@@AutomationGamerealistic behavior off suspension, realistic passing obstacles cars, and more nice opportunities in suspension settings, i meen, it's looks unshapely when offroad car have suspension like from 90s games, and functionality on road same...
I would just like to note, from my perspective anyway, that either the suspension tuning in Automation is way too stiff, or the exporter moves it to Beam incorrectly and makes it stiff. It may be my American speaking, but I have to turn the suspension stiffness way down (to the point of the game giving me a yellow/red marker) in game to get that magic carpet ride that I so desire. Comfort is like riding on a rock shaker, and sport is almost like no suspension at all.
AfterDark3 never had that issue
Made a rally porsche and i accidentally ended up giving it a jelly suspension lol
We just had a look into the stiffness issue and indeed found the culprit for this :) it will be fixed in the next exporter update coming this week!
Big thumbs up! It good that you folks are getting right at these bugs. Keep up the good work!
Why wont it let me change the height
you may have chosen a bad combination of suspension designs. Solid axle front (very high) and something very low for the rear, like pushrod or something.
if you go below 1 Hz, the suspension goes insane in beamng, and tends to fall off.
Hey i have a little problem with both games. I tried to rebuild the 1979 78 HP engine of a Volkswagen T3. But the problem is, when i use really the same power settings and such, then i can't get the engine correctly to start. It can't start because engine knocking, or when i fix it by lower ignition, then the engine stops because "ran too fat". So when i bypass this by export it to BeamNG Drive, then car won't start there too
If it doesn't run in Automation, it doesn't run in BeamNG. I'd recommend you play the engine designer tutorial that teach you how to make proper engines. They are available through the "Challenges" button in the main menu.
Yea i know. But that will means that i am not able to recreate that engine. With the same settings of the real car engine, it don't work in Automation.
I think you are wrong. How do you know the real car's quality settings, ignition timing, cam profile, etc.? Link me the specs of the engine and I'll see if I can get close to it, I might not be able to but that would be a good test case.
Well, i have a book about it with very very detailed informations about the engine. Also with diagrams. Its in german, idk if i can translate it right in english with all those special words.
I can't find this information on the internet.
Let me try to use google translator.
Here are the following informations that i have about the 1979 Volkswagen T3 (78HP):
Displacement, cm³: 1913
Power, KW (hp) / min: 57 (78) / 4600
torque Nm / min: 141/2600
ElectricalSystem:
Voltage, Volt: 12
Battery capacity, Ah: 45
Three-phase generator, A 45
Transmission:
Fully synchronized four-speed manual transmission, differential and twin-pivot shafts to the rear axle.
Fully synchronized five-speed manual transmission as additional equipment for all engines.
Three-stage automatic transmission for 57 kW engine.
Landing gear:
Frame floor system in the front area with shock absorber deformation element and energy-converting front frame construction.
Independent suspension on both axles, front double wishbone with torsion bar stabilizer, rear semi-trailing arm suspension.
Progressive coil springs in the front, space-saving mini-block springs in the back (super-progressive coil springs).
Dual-circuit brake system, front disc brakes, self-adjusting drum brakes, deceleration-dependent brake force regulator.
Steel Belt Tire 185R 14C-
Three-point bearing in large-sized rubber elements, oscillating decoupling of the drive unit.
Gear Ratings (4-Gears):
1st gear: 3.78
2nd gear: 2.06
3rd gear: 1.26
4th gear: 0.85
5th gear: -----
R. -gear: 3.76
Axle ratio: 4.86
Transmission Ratings (5-Gears):
1st gear: 4,11
2nd gear: 2.33
3rd gear: 1.48
4th gear: 1.02
5th gear: 0.77
Reverse gear; 3.76
Axle ratio: 4.86
Engine:
Four-cylinder boxer engine with water cooling, drilling 94 mm, , 68.9 mm, effective displacement 1913 cm³, combustion chamber in the piston and residual combustion chamber in the cylinder head (Heron combustion chamber), compression 8.6. Split crankcase and cylinder heads made of light alloy, wet cylinder liners, triple bearing crankshaft. Centrally arranged camshaft, driven by gear wheels, valve gear via rocker arms and tappets with hydraulic valve clearance compensation. Mixture preparation with a down-stream register carburetor 2 E3 from Pierburg with automatic start, mixture preheating with electrically heated hedgehog and cooling-water heated intake manifold. Aluminum radiator and electric cooling fan with thermostatic control in Wagenbug. Power 57 kW (78 hp) at 4600 rpm, torque 141 Nm at 2600 rpm, output 29.8 kW/I, engine weight 95 kg
Engine stats:
Top speed in km / h: 130
Acceleration in seconds:
0-50 km / h - 4th gear (6.2) 5th gears (8.0)
10.00 - 60 km / h: 4th gear (8.9) 5th gears (9.2)
13.70-100 km / h 4th gear (13.2) 5th gears (13.7)
25.70-100 km / h: 4.gear (21.4) 5. gears (26.8)
Highest load capacity in%: 4. gears (30,0) 5. gears (33,8)
fuel consumption:
City cycle in I / 10 km 4 gears) 13.9) 5. gears (14.5)
constant 90 km / h: 9.5 9.4
capacity:
Fuel tank in liters: 60
Coolant in liters: 17.5
Engine cooling in liters: 17.5
with / without filter change 4,5 / 4,0
Vehicle body:
Curb weight without driver: 1480 kg
Payload: 919 kg
Total permissible weight: 2390 kg
Belly freedom: 115 mm at full load
Ground clearance: 190mm at full load
Thanks for posting that :) I'll try to recreate it today and give you an update!
Do boxers give me a low center gravity lol
Yes, they do.
LKRG yeah engine weights are well simulated, if you compare a pushrod engine to a dohc engine you'll see the pushrod engine has better center because it's shorter in height
President Donald J. Trump is correct. Smaller engines will push the weight distribution towards the non engine end of the car as they sit against the gearbox/driff/driveshaft and will extend from there as the engine grows in size. And that's not even accounting weight.
Thank's for the information but i don't know to have a good rally suspensions if somebody want to help me, i'm here
WHAT DO WE WANT? SUPERCHARGERS! WHEN DO WE WANT THEM? AS SOON AS POSSIBLE! :D
teh game is slow on my system when i play it. also i have 27 instances of sql server running in the background. plz optimize ur game more better.
Uhh, what did you do to get that to happen? :)
How do I understand that you speak English when there are no titre ?
Дмитрий Ильющенков what?
Instructions Unclear. Made a 660cc sports car into a city economy car.
ADD SUPERCHARGERS ALREADY I AM DYING.
This is so fucking complicated...
Good! :P
The preset buttons are for you then.