Evinrude 150 autopsy
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 ก.ย. 2016
- On it's maiden voyage, the Evinrude 150HP outboard died. In fact in the first ten minutes. In this video I begin the process of diagnosing the problem, eventually stripping the motor right down to the crankshaft. One of the pistons is badly melted and others are scored. The big end bearings seem to have survived without breaking up, but the main bearings don't seem so healthy. Off to the machine shop for this engine to get rebored and some new forged pistons.
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I don't work with outboards but this and the others in this series were well worth watching. We always learn something!
Just wanted to thank you for an excellent channel and for this video, I think the quality of Comments is a testament to your work.
Like most others say, your level of detail in your troubleshooting process is unrivaled. Thank you for teaching us all.
I’m 72yrs and never got into mower motors nor outboard engines. Am so glad. Love watching you but.
You're just starting life. I'll see you when you're 100. Who cares how many times the earth went around the sun? Pure nonsense. Stay healthy my friend. I'm 2 years behind you and gaining fast.
Alex T ...just finished my first van build from 10 sheets of 2400 X 1200 aluminium into an Airstream Basecamp..next I’m looking at Pino2010 a Turkish design van can be pulled by a small sedan. Revamped my work area, sorted jumbled screws n bolts n fixings n offcut timbers to buy me so much extra time from seeking a screw or even a tool. When my darling was alive I could support her and our 4 children, built them a home, realised every girl should go to Paris so bought up old box trailers and refurbished n sold. She is now in a far off place now so I’m thrilled we did what we did. Before we are together again I have children n grandchildren to look after on her behalf so my future is forever!
Love your vids, learn so much and your presenting style is just like being along with you. Thanks.
Stu, this is the second of your playlists I'm working my way through. I've been in a marine engineering program at Broward College in south Florida. The program is wonderful in terms of providing a good intellectual basis on which to learn the various facets of this field. (electrical, elecrtonics, diesel engines, transmission systems, gasoline engines, corrosion [now], composite materials, A/C systems, and auxiliary systems) Your videos have provided a fantastic empirical catalog of putting many of the concepts I've learned into practice. We do get several hours of hands on shop time a week, but it's great to be able to see dozens and dozens of examples of practical work.
Thank you for your content! I plan to get a shirt in the future and will proud to wear it in a picture on some future adventure.
Oh boy!! Looks like a massive project. Well done as usual.
Hey Keon, it will certainly need a lot more work to get it back on the water, but it will be an interesting journey I think!
I really appreciate they way that you explain clearly what you are doing you make a good video,
This dude is the boss when it comes to fixing outboards
Great video, Dangar Stu, and excellent channel. You should have a TV show down there in Oz! I fix old motors, boats, golf carts, cars (Volvo 240s), etc., and it's nice to see how somebody else fights the never-ending battle against corrosion. I really appreciate the detail you include in your videos. Good luck with the 'rude. It's a good engine worth saving if possible.
Thanks mate. It's at the engineer's now so we should have it back up and running soon.
Baggies for the bolts seems like a good idea. Great video.
Thanks David. Yep, those bags certainly save me from my own disorganisation. ;)
All good advice.....love your vids, best wishes from Lincoln, England
Always great videos. THANX
Hi, love your informative videos, I am an ex-pat Aussie been living in God's Own Country since 1990 and loving it, this video is of particular interest to me, as I have the same outboard on my boat, it is a 1996 model with only 500hrs on it.
Keep up the great work Regards John
Thanks John, glad you are enjoying the vids. This is a 1996 model too. :)
Couple of tips for you and the viewers who may not do this alot. With a 2t that's failed, before stripping the engine down, vacuum and pressure test the crankcase, essentially block the exhaust and intake manifold as well as any openings into the crankcase, use a mighty vac and push about 6-7psi into the crankcase, then pull a vacuum on the crankcase. It should hold vac for about 15 minutes and a 1psi drop in pressure per minute is acceptable. Too often carbs, oil or timing is blamed for failure when alot of time the crankcase isn't sealed. Very good practice to do this same test on a freshened engine too. Using master gasket on the crankcase is a sure fire way to get leaks also.
It's a shame that blocking off the exhaust on an outboard isn't easier, because as you say, having a leak can be a major source of head aches.
Using a shop vac on a motor that had gas in it can explode when the vappers are drawn past the sparking brushes
Can't be done on that motor.
well done as always!
Thanks mate. :)
great video and good work wish i had a local mechanic as good yourself.
+Kim Fitzpatrick Thanks Kim, fingers crossed you can find someone good if you ask around.
thank you for your knowledge. your the man
Great video always enjoy watch them keep it up👍
Thanks mate. :)
really enjoy your videos! ! when your like me trying to self teach and educate yourself its nice to have some advice to fall back on
any advice on how to fix a striped bolt hole? I was gona heli coil but im going to wait and aluminum braze that puppy
Personally I would go with the helicoil. I've even used them to replace critical bolts like head bolts and they've worked really well.
I did the same thing on a 225 Johnson and what a pain in the ass. We had to replace the water tube and gaskets so the power head had to come off.
Great job
Thanks Andy.
Another great one.
Am glad to see you carrying on with this engine since I have a very similar 1999 150 hp Johnson.
Am hoping you will show how to set the timing and balance the carbs.
Thanks Louis. Once we get this one back together I will definitely be going right through the carbs and the timing.
Nice video. Thank you
You're welcome. :)
Wonder if they overlooked the jetting after the rebuild. More volume for air, same amount of fuel as stock... ran lean.
Thanks for a great video loved it
very nice job dude thank you
Thanks mate.
I agree, most of that damage was probably present before the engine visited you the first time...I'm wondering if that is the original powerhead, the number on the ID plug will agree with the serial number if the powerhead is original. The engine didn't sound the overheat alarm or go into SLOW mode, so sure doesn't seem like it was overheating. When I see several cylinders scored/scuffed up like that I'm thinking lubrication problem...But, like you say, there seems to be plenty of oil present during disassembly. But, again, we both agree that the damage occurred before the engine visited you, even though the final result happened afterwards. The oiling system does have an alarm that lets you know if it is not working, but the alarm system does not know the difference between oil and water...Many times, these oil tanks get water in them, especially when located in the bilge. I'm thinking that water was introduced through the oiling system which caused all the scuffing/scoring, this probably occurred awhile back...Someone may have discovered this problem and cleaned out the oil tank, but the damage was already done. Usually though, you will see some minor pitting on the crank journals and bearings, telling us that water sat on those surfaces. Again, this is probably minor damage that will be noticed only after a closer cleaning and inspection of these areas...Like you said, someone has been inside this engine before, as noted by the .030 stamped on at least one piston. I suppose it is possible that this is a remanufactured powerhead. In any event, it is surely possible that the cylinders were not bored properly during the last rebuild causing the tight fit/scuffing scoring. It is possible that the damage was caused by misfiring/lean running/over propped-lugging. This engine has a unique ignition system that is tricky to set up properly without the ignition analyzer tool from OMC. The engine will misfire if the wrong plugs are used. This engine has lousy plastic float bowls, perhaps someone removed/installed the high speed jets without the proper tool, damaged the jets, left them loose, or created plastic debris by using the wrong tool. This style engine is generally pretty durable and develops quite a bit of power. I suppose it is possible the cause of this damage might remain a mystery due to its unknown past. If your customer is the original owner, perhaps he can supply some information that might help solve this mystery...
Hi mate. I'll be interested to cross check those numbers. Unfortunately the new owner of this boat has only had it for a month or so and the history is completely unknown. He got it for basically nothing so no really problems there. There wasn't any sign of the water in the tank, but good point about the sensor not knowing the difference. I'll be sure to test that sensor before if goes back out on the water. Carbs will also get an overhaul and I'll get the local Evinrude guy to look over the ignition too. He's just down the road and have loads of experience.
I have been glued to this story, and now that it's done it seems no sure cause is to blame. I had a 150 Johnson start burning a hole into piston, the cylinder died because the spark plug was fouled with aluminum. Since you didn't mention any odd issue with plug and the piston looked like it was crushed in with no damage to head, I will vote on a previous reader hydro lock theory with coolant getting past cylinder o-ring. Once that chunk of piston fell into crankcase it became an interference piece.
Just my 2 cents.
Great video's, love catching up with island life.
Gary in Louisville, Ky.
Hi Gary, there definitely did look to be water getting past that o-ring, so I too think water it is the likely cause. I'll pull the plugs on this one after a few hours of running and take a look at them to see how things are tracking.
If water was getting in, wouldn't the top of JUST THAT piston be "clean"?? I would think there would also be salt deposits on it? Like there appear to be on the deck surface at the suspected leak point.
Is the compression height (pin height) of that piston different to the other 5? if the pin was lower the Compression Ratio would be higher in that cylinder, and that may make it more succeptable to detonation, considering it had appeared to be "rebuilt". Also, could the con rod be mis-machined and be longer that the others? Are all 6 strokes equalised? are all 6 head chambers equal in capacity? are all 6 carburettors matching in jet sizes? small mistakes get made in production lines. I am sure the people putting the carbies together don't check each individual jet, maybe that one is a size or more down, OR the numbers on one of the jets in that carby is mis-stamped??
If that engine has been rebuilt, and it's only a recent engine, that would indicate to me that there is one of the "re-used" components at fault.
You really need to get your microscope out and work out the problem, or else you will be re-building that engine again, likely at your expense....
@@DangarMarine Mr danger water was the problem, water entering the combustion chamber raises the compression ratio and side loads the Pistons .higher compression on low octane fuel spark knocks and pre ignition and detonation burns up the piston tops
@@kiqnkf3201you are correct. its carbon buildup that stuck the ring/s and cause the scoring and detonation in #2. all cylinders had same level of carbon which is a clue, and the stuck rings staring him in the face! this is extremely obvious and has nothing to do w. water as he suggested. a good decarb every 100 hrs or so and this could easily be avoided!
Good Luck..
Thanks Manny.
#DangarMarine sorry l did not now that you had this video series about that engine, so l will buy an other, thank you
regardless of the oversized pistons and what may have transpired since they were added...the vessel "Joker 2" looks like a great buy..
You're not wrong. I should ask the owner if he minds me mentioning the price, but lets say it was a great buy for the trailer alone. ;)
Good video. I am pretty sure if that motor crapped out here in Canada, it would be VERY difficult to find a mechanic that would even go as far as you have.
Canadian mechanics must be much more sensible then. ;)
No. Judging by the time, parts and effort (and I am sure at least $5000 if not more) you put into that old anchor, it is much easier to bolt on a used runner. We have lots of camp (lease) returns and such available here.
Cheers, good job, educational and entertaining.
Have a beer!
Before I watch further, I'm betting a lean-condition overheated & expanded a piston, the piston is in pieces...now, onto the video!
I was right, a thirty-over overbore wrecked the AF ratio sending it into a lean-condition. ALWAYS err into a too-rich condition. A clean-up of the bore will not save this engine, without a re-jet this will happen again soon.
Thanks for another very interesting video. By bad luck, my 1989 Yamaha 150HP just seized this month and is in the shop. You sped up some of the video, but I'd be interested to know the amount of time it took you to disassemble this engine. (The first place I took it to said it would cost more than the engine is worth to even figure out the problem, let alone rebuild it. Perhaps not surprisingly, the call ended with a pitch for a new Yamaha outboard!) As an owner of an older boat with an inclination towards DIY, I really appreciate your videos. They are some of the most useful and informative on the topic of boat maintenance and repair.
Hi David. Sorry to hear about your Yamaha. Someone once said to me that they would never send their outboard to be fixed by someone who also sells outboards. ;) All up I would say it took about two hours to strip it right down. The cost can add up though by the time you get the machining done and then buy all the new gaskets, bearings and seals you need. If you are the DIY type though, stripping it down isn't hard, just keep everything really organised and labelled to aid reassembly.
I would add about another hour for a 4 stroke strip down. A plus for two strokes is that they are SIMPLE!.
i work on outboard from a liveing that 150 hot for sure
I've watched several of your videos including all these Evinrude 150 videos. They are very good. I seized my Evinrude 120 around 6-7 years ago. I hadn't used it in a while; was having poor performance, and cooked one of the pistons. I suspect the carb for that cylinder was not getting sufficient fuel/oil to that cylinder because it had been sitting a while before I tried to run it. Anyway, its been sitting in the garage since. I'm not sure of the year of your 150, perhaps one of the videos said 97, but mine is an 89. I bought it new with the boat; the boat has almost always been kept covered on the trailer in the garage; used in fresh water, and overall not used a great deal at all. You have inspired me to consider rebuilding it. I've debated buying a re-manufactured power head, but sort of like the idea of keeping my own instead because I know its history. Any thoughts on which would be the best alternative?
Hi Michael, it's a tough call because when it all goes well, its very satisfying to rebuild you existing motor and when it doesn't you end up thinking, should have just bought a reconditioned powerhead. ;) I know which would be more fun!
It's perfectly acceptable to not bore the cylinders that don't need bored. It may seem weird but it's an accepted practice in the world of 2 stroke outboards.
It will be interesting to see what the machinist has done. We are hopefully going to be getting it back in a few weeks.
@@DangarMarine You only bore the cylinders that need to be bored.
can't wait to see the end product
Me too!
You must have been a teacher in a previous life!
Thanks Billy!
Hi, you do a great work, and its great chance if you please explain how to use Micrometers, Vernier caliper, dial gauge, Cylinder Bore Gauges, and where to measure and how we calculate the measures, Feeler or Thickness Gauges, Straight Edges (Surface Gauges), Plastigauge, Torque Wrench Tips, Torque Basics, The formula for calculating
corrected torque and I’m sure you great on “SEALANTS and LUBRICANTS”. Thanking in advance.
Sure, hopefully this project will give the opportunity to go through a lot of those.
That sucks that it blew up! Make sure the timing is correct, I'd replace the water pump to be sure it's good, and also rebuild the carbs to make sure no jets are clogged.
Yeah, bit of a bummer but it is what it is I guess. Will definitely go right through it once it is back from the machine shop.
Now take an LSl v8 aluminum block and use the porting like this to build a 2 stroke Corvette, Camero or truck. This would be a good motor to base the porting design off of for a 2 stroke street motor.
You're welcome
I work on a 3cyc merc with 2 carbs an it smoke #3 piston for the second time to find out the lower card was miss jetted since the piston was starving for fuel while the other two was getting the fuel it need to run at wide open throttle was just wonder if this was the same case here
Good morning sir from USA! First of all, wanted to say thank you for ur content and sharing ur expertise… ur videos have given me the knowledge and confidence to tackle many projects I surely couldn’t have done otherwise.
Secondly, a question as it relates to this “seized” Evinrude video. I am having the exact same issue with an Evinrude 110 4 cyl 2 stroke as u have in this video. It is not seized, pistons can be heard to move and seen moving looking in the plug holes. However, it hits a hard stop after nearly 1 full revolution (in either direction) just as u experienced here. My question is… what did u find or assume was the actual blockage with ur 150? Great info in the vid but I don’t see that u ever revealed the actual blockage. I realize it may be different in mine but suspect it’s som’n very similar due to the exact same symptoms. Was it pieces of the broken piston, rings hanging on a port in the cylinder, etc? It didn’t appear to be anything with the crank or bearings there. About to tear into mine and just looking for all the info I can get before doing so. Thx so much!
When the VRO pump fails, it supposed to fail so that it allows oil to siphon into the gas and you end up with too much oil. I've been watching your videos because I have a 150 Johnson ocean runner which is basically, the same engine.
It's good to know they are designed to fail in a safe manner. I'll definitely be looking into some ways to test it once it is back.
Can you do a video of tuning the carbs on this evinrude? My current boat is my first boat and I bought it used not knowing what to look for or bringing anyone qualified to help me check it out. I ended up with a boat that needed a lot of work on the engine. The previous owner installed a new power pack, coils, starter solenoid coil, bowls and floats. I've had installed a water pump, vro, rollers on shifter cables, tach, port side temp sensor and the optical sensor. Once I did the repairs I realized the previous owner was chasing a problem that he didn't solve and dumped his troubles on to me. My carbs were tuned at the shop, but I can tell it needs to be tuned better. The young guy that tuned mine didn't seem to have the experience for tuning the carbs on my engine.
eightofnine9 Yep, I will definitely be filming that part of this outboard's restoration. Setting the mixture is the same in principle as this motor though.
don.t count on that ive been all thru many of these pumps there junk i hate them
I've run evinrudes all my life. And Danger Marine. My advice is. NO matter how old or new an outboard is. Never rely on oil injection. Do away with it completely, And run 50:1, Or a safer bet. Even 40:1. And you will always be trouble free :)
good video man you should have a lot more subscribers than you do
Thanks Dean. Getting there slowly but viewers spreading the word always helps. ;)
If you loose compression on one piston could it be a blown head gasket. Its on a mercury black max 150hp
Wonder if the rings where properly gapped? Thanks for another great lesson.
Certainly a possibility. I'm hoping the engineer can shed a bit of light on the situation too.
Thank you Dangar Stu, your videos are a great way to de-stress after a tough day. I really am curious as to what caused that particular piston to melt...Cheers!
Hi mate. Glad you enjoy the videos. I feel the same way, really can't wait to get an answer to this mystery!
After a while the VRO pump becomes weak. The best thing you can do with this engine is remove the VRO and pre-mix the fuel. Surprisingly enough if you use a good quality 2 stroke oil they don't smoke that much. I freshened my 150hp a few years ago and decided to get rid of it at the same time.
What do you think about a "cold seize" condition, where the engine was run hard before warming up.
It can seize the rings of the pistons, which would overheat the damaged one.
You can sometimes pick up a ring that way, but in this case the owner assures me he had run gentle for a while, then was at speed for about 10 minutes after that before this happened quite suddenly.
Hi Stu Christmas has gone are you building yet lol, just loving your videos they are well done and most informative for guys with only a little knowledge of mechanical things and can do some jobs and save a few bills 😀 I know how crap things like this are as I'm a time served mechanic on trucks and large earth moving equipment, I then move on in career to become a mechanical engineer in power generation gas turbines and nuclear fusion. As hobby I have bikes and used to race and have my own bike workshop, outboards are new to me but inboard are no problem
But thanks again for the great videos
Stewart
Hi Stewart, Merry Christmas! Glad to hear you've been enjoying the videos. Certainly sounds like you've spent a lot of time with all things mechanical. I do a bit of work on my bike but I'm no expert. Fortunately it's a pretty simple air cooled single so it's not too complicated.
Hi Dangar, i am just about to finish a complete clean and paint of my runabout hull. When my mechanic put the motor back on the wires for ignition where placed on the outside of the cowling instead of through the supports/ribs have you got a vid of running these wires and whether its better to disconnect from the forward control end or the motor end? to run them. love ya work mate. Its been a help for my project.
Thanks mate, glad the videos have helped. I don't have a video I can think of, but it is generally much easier to disconnect from the outboard end. It does depend on the outboard model though. It is generally just one big plug at the outboard end.
tohatsu 30 hp thanks i was thinking that. cheers.
rocking couple scuffing. either over-revved, or the main caps weren't quite torqued right on that "rebuild".
I didn't really get any good footage of it in this video, but the main bearings were shot, you can hear them in the video while I'm looking at the crankshaft. I've since noticed that the casings on them are cracked too.
so "short torqued" for the win, lol. are those cdi boxes rev limited? that "2 on the ends of 1 bank, one in the middle of the other" wear pattern is a monster tell. i bet with the bearings off you can't v-block all the mains at once, lol. evidence of stretched main bolts? reused "torque to yield" fasteners (i'd honestly use a single opportunity to ride a time machine to shoot the guy who came up with that idea, lol)? that head might need line boring too, with the evidence you're finding... the buyer should have negotiated a hauling fee, not a purchase price, lol
Did I miss it? What was stopping the engine turning over? What was it hitting?
I did my 175 evinrude head gaskets the other day port 4 piston had scratches on the side what would cause this and also pistons all have play rings are all free
What does the piston that was damage look like. Look at the piston boss for color.
Classic evinrude
Yeah, I've heard a few go this way.
Meh, the only Evinrude I ever owned was bulletproof or so it seemed. It's still running as far as I know and I sold it over 20 years ago. 1979 85HP V4.
Almost guarantee that is old damage from the looks of it. Especially if the carbs were poorly adjusted. Is there any way the timing could have been out too? Also does the block have cylinder sleeves in it? Some Evinrudes used removable sleeves from memory.
Hi Matthew. Yep, this Evinrude is sleeved. It's not out of the question that the timing was too advanced, I'll certainly be checking it before it goes back out on the water.
Having a sleeved block may save you some money as it maybe cheaper to rough machine out the old sleeves and then just fit new standard size sleeves and pistons. Depends on how much machining costs vs sleeves cost of course. Good that the crank is ok, guessing it is still prudent to change the big end and main bearings while it is all apart rather than having another failure in say 100 hours running time. Good luck with the carb/vacuum leak/timing diagnosis!
The main bearings are definitely shot. I'm thinking that them failing may have been the start of the melt down leading to piston damaged that lead to blow by etc, etc. I think they run on races so once again I'm hoping the crank hasn't been damaged by them. Time will tell!
Looks like classic dirty carb causing some cylinders to lean out
I've been messing with these old OMC's v6 and v8's for many years. The damage to this engine appears to be either bottom two carbs not being jetted 2 sizes larger than the upper 4, The butterfly 's on the linkage between the 4 set and the 2 set weren't adjusted right. Probably the lower butterflies were slightly open at idle, and the motor went lean on that cylinder. Or, most likely, it still has the original VRO. Funny thing about VRO's at idle they lean the oil mix to about 200:1. If you set at idle for any length of time, the fuel in the float bowls gets replaced with nearly straight gas, which when you get on the throttle your not lubricating the cylinder walls with enough oil.
The best way to make a VRO engine last, is to ditch the VRO all together.
completely false! the VRO was changed to OMS with this model, and gave it 100:1 at idle. plenty of oil. this was not the case. clearly stuck rings and detonation from not doing a decarb. nothing more. the OMS does not "replace the float bowl with nearly strait gas". the carbs are AFTER the pump, and the fuel is always mixed correctly in the bowl. by the time the motor is at higher rpm, the bowl is replaced with 50:1 fuel by 2500 rpm.
El maestro
interesting video very strange to see so much damage, as you say plenty of oil getting in there do you think there could be a fuel mixture problem on that carb? or a poor rebuild from last time. will be great when done plus even bigger pistons
That carb could have been running lean, but I really don't think that would be enough to cause this. I'm thinking it has more to do with a previous rebuild.
cheers good luck mate
Hello, I wanted to ask you. Can I get to the crankshaft with the engine in the boat or do I have to take it out of the boat? thank you so much
Hello, I'm rebuilting my 2008 Mercury Optimax 150. After the removal of the crankshaft I found very deep groves on the block (max depth 0.02") and two broken seal rings.
The engine have about 1200 hours.
I see in the block of your video that are present the same grooves (I don't know the deep).
Have sense to continue with the rebuilting?
hello Mr Danger, was wondering if you had a part two rebuild video up? Im doing a 92 evinrude 120 v4 looper. I had a compression on one cylinder drop from 125 to 100psi, opened the head to find a loose piston and scored cylinder. Im hoping to get away with honing and new rings. budgets too tight for a bore job at a shop.
Hey mate, should be getting that block back in a couple of weeks and then we'll be straight onto it.
Dangar Marine awesome thanks!
If your cylinder is scored honing wont remove that in most cases, but you can over bore just that one cylinder and then get the right piston and you will be fine.
looks like detonation damage on that piston. No melt splashes from pre-ignition. Timing/ mixture/low grade fuel?
Will definitely be looking into the timing before putting this one back into service. Will also recommend running it on 98 octane to be safe.
1995 Evinrude intruder 150hp. cyl read from top to bottom right to left. 125/120 120/120 110/100. i do not know if it was TDC when done. What is your opinion. runs a little rough cold.
Also, look for crankcase leaks. Make sure to pressure test.
I know this is really old but I can't help but wonder if the bores weren't sized correctly if/when the pistons were replaced. I would think that way being a Tool and Die man. Which video shows the diagnosis or was it never really discovered?
Hey Dan. Can't say we ever got a conclusive answer to the problem. When I got the pistons replaced to fix this motor it was interesting that the machinist couldn't do the bores until after the pistons had arrived as they needed to match perfectly. I'm thinking he knew what he was doing more than the previous guy maybe!
Just watched the video, I have 175 that need to replace rubber mounts upper. I dont see how to qet them of...have the engine all apart just to see, and still dont find the way
اني من العراق واتمنا اشتري ايفنرود
If IT has been running lean Then that can burn a Hole in the piston....
I blew my 2007 150 E-Tec. Big End - cylinder 6. The bore lining is badly gouged & the crankshaft where the bearing sits is also damaged. In your opinion can it/is it worth to fix it or just good for parts ?
Can do a 1985 Johnson vro rebuild i need to do mine lol
This is the first marine engine I have seen torn down. Do the all have roller rod and main bearings?
All the two strokes do, but the four strokes have slipper bearings.
i was wondering which cylinder that had a cracked dome?was it number 5?
I can't recall now, but I thikm 5 or 6.
Stu,
I have a question for you...
I am disassembling a motor, and am stuck. The problem is that on one piston, the ring is bent and protruding, and is engaging with the exhaust port. So it will only go up and down the height of the port, and then locks. Other than being "locked", the motor and cylinders are in good condition.
I've tried levering the rings back into their groove, but they are not cooperating. Do you know of any suggestions or tricks for this situation?
It's definitely a tough one. Does it feel like the ring is not going back into it's groove because it has filled up with carbon behind the ring? If so some type of ring free or oven cleaner might help you get the space you need to push it back in just far enough to clear the port. The other option is to try to file it back in some way if you can get good enough access through the exhaust. It may scratch the bore on the way out though so you will need to hone it once it is out.
Great ideas! I'll try the oven cleaner first. But because the piston is somewhat deformed, I suspect it is metal blocking me. The piston looks similar to yours, like it was starting to melt. I may be able to take off the exhaust plate and get to it that way. If not, this one may end up in the scrap heap.
On the Evinrude you pulled apart, it was partly locked up, right? What was causing it to stop rotation?
(Thanks for the help, by the way.)
Dangar Marine,
Had a big bummer happen. A friend was looking at that motor, and said he "had it." Before I could stop him, there was a screech, and he put two huge gouges in the cylinder. Ugh!
That motor is done, now...
in the snowmobile world,a hole in the piston top is 100%either water in the fuel or advanced timing causing detonation.if it had cold seized,there would be scoring on all 4 corners of the pistons.ii had a similiar problem with a 200 johnson and it turnrd out to be the static timing roller broke.also those plastic carbs are known to deform which can cause a air leak.does your motor have the optical pickup timing?
I'm pretty sure this didn't have water in the fuel as the tanks were cleaned out and refilled before the first run, but I am starting to suspect timing. I'm not sure whether this is optical or has a hall effect sensor, I haven't looked into it yet but I'll definitely be doing a separate video on checking the timing before if goes back in the water.
i have also seen where water has gotten into the oil tank and burnt holes!i learned that the hard way.it took 2 burn downs to figure it out!lol..is there anyway that 1 carb leaned out?we have found quite a few boats lately that have suffered from the interior of the fuel line rotting away and plugging carbs.i dont know if you guys have ethanol there though?
I was wishing you would have run a dial bore gauge around the cylinders. Were they tapered or out-of-round? Were they within tolerance?
Yes, I must get a dial bore gauge one day. I'm not sure if the engineer checked them before he machined them. They are certainly okay now though.
Greetings Stuart,
Any News On The Evinrude From CDA? Presume It Was Too Far Gone To Rebuild.
Cheers Michael
Just waiting on pistons to arrive from the US.
Some things just come back to haunt you
That they do...
hi, how much is it for something like this to be done to my 175 mariner engine. ( engine rebuild ).
It would probably cost about $3000 - $4000.
did you find out why the one piston melted??
quite some work...
Yeah, I'm looking forward to seeing how it turns out.
Could a leaking head gasket lean out that cylinder causing over heating that burned the piston?
No
Looks like a pretty big boat . The SPEED to RPM may have caused the motor to over work.
Failure to find the cause will mean it will come back.
The crankcase was never pressured checked.
The VRO was never calibrated for oil usage with a premixed tank.
The problem is still there
I agree it would be nice to know for sure what the problem was, but given the tanks seem to get water in them very easily I'm thinking it may have been water related. We are still in the process of seeing how much oil the VRO is pumping while on the external tank of premix fuel, so I'll keep you posted there. From what I understand there is no easy way to pressure test these crank cases, but having changed the top and bottom seals and cleaned and resealed the flanges I can't see it having a leak.
You don't calibrate the VRO for use with premixed fuel. You remove the oil tank and lines and cap it off at the oil inlet.
Johnson does have in their repair manuals that some engines come from the factory with oversize pistons, but don't say why. You could also have an engine that the repairer did a 'only do what you have to' job on, and my guess that is what has happened due to the hone marks not being on all cylinders. I don't think you have found the root cause though, something is not adding up right. Good video, I like the 'the way it is' truth of your vids, very well done.Some close ups of cleaned up pistons and bores showing the score marks in good light would be good too. Does your missus give you much stick for not coming home until late just so you can make videos? :7)
Hey Ron, interesting about some engines coming with oversized pistons. I sorted of expected something like that as I didn't get the feeling this had already been bored. The chances of somebody rebuilding this motor and doing it so badly seemed unlikely. What I would like to do is get everything cleaned up and get CDA's opinion of it in the next video. He must see this sort of thing five times a day. Fortunately Vicki commutes to work so I can hang back for an hour or so and still get back to the river at the same time. That keeps me out of trouble!
I just had a quick look at the neverude parts list- a hint, also price Johnson parts as sometimes they are cheaper, and it is the same engine. Is that boat hull rated for 175hp? If so, as you are doing the rebuild any way, a swap of carbs/jets may be an easy upgrade, and if con rods and pistons are different for each HP rating, you are changing them any way- so.... One thing is there should be plenty of parts available, that crank shaft alone goes from 1994 to 2010 and about 5 different HP ratings!Could that O ring leaking water into the cylinder cause a melted piston? Some of the other pistons you showed had dents in the top, are all the fingers of the reed valves still present.Also you don't say why the crank would not do a full rotation, but from the position I would guess a broken ring going into a transfer port?
I'd say the hull could take 175HP, it's a 6 metre fibreglass cruiser. I'm not sure about the water causing melting. I wouldn't imagine so. I didn't mention what was stopping the full rotation as it was hard to tell. I'm actually starting to suspect the main bearings. It will be interesting to see what they look like when they come off because they certainly don't sound or feel good.
motor sitting for a while may clog the carbs. clogged carbs make a lean run. lean running causes overheating and burns holes in the pistons - exactly what this looks like
I have a 1978(if it is original to boat. I think it is.) Evinrude 140. I bought it late last summer and drove it numerous times but on my last trip before putting it away for the winter(Northern USA) I experienced a same situation as you have where it was running great. I was pulling a skier he fell off and I stopped then when I started going again it didn't have enough power to get up to plane let alone pull a skier too. Of course I was on the opposite side of the lake so I had to idle back to the boat ramp. Is there any cause for this besides what happened with your motor. I premix the oil so that shouldn't have been a problem. Typically how many hours does it take for a rebuild? Also is it something a novice can do or is it better left for the pros?
+Benjamin Coffel It could be a number of things, so you'd need to do some diagnosis first. A compression test on each cylinder will tell you what is going on. A full rebuild is something that can be done by amateurs, but you would won't to take it slowly and do a lot of research first.
Dangar Marine what is a typical pressure reading for a motor like that? Thank you for your help! I actually fixed what I thought was catastrophic gearbox damage by watching your propeller video. So thanks for that too!
Could the crank seal have failed? If so then the top piston would have run dry/ lean of 2 stroke resulting in frying the piston? That said the top big end bearing have gone before the piston failure.
Certainly a possibility.
Have you found the reason why the engine started eat itself. Was the last rebuild a dodgy one ? good vids muka well presented , filmed and edited
Not yet, still waiting for a time to take the block down to the engineers.
+Dangar Marine
looking for o
+Jamil Cooper
I have a 50 honda 4 stroke outboard some put sugar in the oil thank am just in need of one piston an a cylinder head.
piston scores could be from local seizures due to not running in after rebore ( or poor cleanliness in refurb.
Hopefully we'll be able to do a better job when we refurb!
I have a 10hp four stroke and the timing belt slipped i don't know if it bent the valve but if it has is it worth fixing?
It depends how old it is. If the timing belt has just slipped a bit then chances are it will be fine. Many outboard are not interference (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interference_engine) which means the valves can't be damaged. A leak down test will tell you what you are up against if you don't want to pull the head off.
Ok thanks
Will we ever see the post machine shop engine?
Yes, should be in a couple of weeks.
Hi Dangar Marine i have a issue we my 1995 yamaha 90 2 stroke running foward they dont go more that 3500 RPM I remove the oil tank mixer i mix the oil we gas now ,i change the spark plugs i clean the carburattors ,i change the fuel line ,the prime i clean the little filter inside the motor,i check the fuel pump don have any hole on the diagfragm the compression on all 3 cillinder is 140 on each cilinder and is working better but not more than 3500 RPM, I dont know if is the CDI SAFE MODE or any other Issue,can you o any person here can help me PLEASE.
Thanks
If your engine is running perfectly and it will only reach 3500 rpm, try changing the propeller to a lower pitch. And make sure you don't have a bunch of unnecessary weight in the boat.
some of the carbs may have leaned out less fuel higher temp ? just a thought
Hi Sean. In a follow up vid to this one I clean the carbs and they all looked really clear to start with so I'm thinking if they did go lean it was either the fuel pump to the bowls or a vacuum leak.
just wondering but with such a big repair, at what point do you just say, "Time to shop for a new motor" the time and cost of fixing vs. brand new ????
It really is a case of weighing up repair costs vs replacement costs and factoring it the chance of the repair failing. This video talks a bit about that th-cam.com/video/GTK18LGT9Bw/w-d-xo.html
Hey Dangar.
I got a problem with my outboard motor.maube u can help me or lead me in the right direction let me explain a little about it..got a 1985 Force 50hp two stoke. engine..this is what it doing. when not in the water or when I putting in water barrel to run the motor it will do just fine it idle fine putting it gear forward & reverse work fine but when I put it in the actual water ( lake ) it will work for a few minute and then it die. it won't start. it crank but no start...once I bring it home to mess with it..I get to run . I go to lake same thing once in the water does not run. maybe u can give me a hint. I will Apreciate it..
thank U..
I would start by giving it a full service as per this video. th-cam.com/video/tih4o9-VJ2g/w-d-xo.html In particular, be sure to do the compression test and perhaps a carburettor clean.