Because the gear selector was stuck and the controls had been forced I assumed that had caused the bend in the rod but apparently that is factor bent. More information in this video th-cam.com/video/Ufy6W9EI1cg/w-d-xo.html
This might sound a bit over the top but I have been in a similar situation and really didn't feel comfortable (risk of turning a potentially great outboard into a write off) with trying to undo screws or applying flame heat onto aluminium castings mixed with rubber seals or plastics that had stainless steel bolts fused into them. I ended putting heating elements from a domestic hot water tank into a deep tank. And then boiled the water in the tank. Outboard hanging from a chain hoist & dipped in at the required depth & soaking over time.... Worked a treat!!
I have a 1995 evinrude johnson 88hp v4 I replaced water pump and thermostats. I have ear muffs hooked up plenty of water pressure going to the leg while running and I have water coming out of the spout but when she warms up after ten mins off running it's starts to spit water on and off. Is it true that the earmuffs don't apply enough water for these motors and that's why I'm spitting water on and off
I have a 1995 evinrude johnson 88hp v4 I replaced water pump and thermostats. I have ear muffs hooked up plenty of water pressure going to the leg while running and I have water coming out of the spout but when she warms up after ten mins off running it's starts to spit water on and off. Is it true that the earmuffs don't apply enough water for these motors and that's why I'm spitting water on and off
Dangar is about the best marine advice anywhere. Most keep this info to themselves so they can rip us off. Thanks to Dangar I’ve been able to do most servicing and repairs myself.
My first trip by outboard was 1958. Had no idea what the drive shaft and gear selector looked like. Now I do. So grateful for your patient teaching ability.
Great video m8! I am 71 and just bought a 5.5m fibreglass half cabin with a 140hp Johnson VRO (both 1986 !). It's amazing how many people comment on how "the good old stuff" looks so nice and still purrs because it was looked after for all those years. The auto oiling has been disconnected, apparently they were prone to failing and cutting off the oil supply to the carbs and - well, you know what. The combo was owned by a fella who in his younger years built a 43ft ferro cement yacht and sailed it around the world for nearly 20 years, so he has done a beautiful job for it to be looking as good as it it. Really enjoyed the video, have subscribed/liked and now ticking off all your other vids. Keep 'em coming m8, it's all Gold for us 'old guys' keeping the classic stuff running.
The explanations are excellent. The camera work is excellent. I particularly appreciate the 'real world' vibe to the overall video. I also very much appreciate the explanations differentiating what is bad, vs. what is expected. It eliminates ambiguity. Thanks for the thoroughness and excellent effort put into the production.
I recently purchased a bass boat with a 150 intruder two stroke and after watching this I feel alittle better about this old thumper I have pushing me around. Great video keep up the good stuff!
The attention to detail and dedication to excellence separates the common from the uncommon. You sir, based on what you show, by your demonstration -- not self-lauding praise -- are among the uncommon. The Excellent. It is noted and admired. I mean that.
Coming back to this video after a long time, I reckon it's INCREDIBLY interesting and informative. So much knowledge and common sense in your diagnostic and troubleshooting process. Many thanks. Stay healthy and safe in the Coronavirus crisis.
Fabulous vid mate,as an engineer of 45yrs been there many times.watchedthis twice!...Ref corrosion,I've always sprayed my motors at least twice a year with duck oil,it has paid dividends and have virtually no corrosion probs, in fact my engines always have a buyer waiting when I've finished with themregards from the UK an old limey b.
Great videos!! Just bought a boat w/Evinrude 130. It's been sitting for 4+ years. Your vids give me the confidence of taking on certain tasks. Thanks again.
Thanks Stu, been watching your videos now and then being a retired mechanic. Just came across a nice 20ft boat that's been in the shed for 10years. Checked the hour meter and it's only done 76 hours. 😊 I think it's a 93 model 150hp. So I was pleased to find this video. I reakon it should run a treat, My friend who is a boat mechanic said if the gearbox oil is clean leave it alone and do the water pump like you said. Wish me luck, Stu I will let you know. Thanks again Steve.
Only halfway through my second YT clip mate, Awesome tutorial... Takes great guys like you to do these for the benefit of others... Top shelf as another poster said....
Can't tell you how much I appreciate your vids. I have learned a few keys watching your vids that are of immense value. I am a pretty good DIY mechanic but boat motors are a completely new learning experience for me. I have an 80 horse Merc that's been sitting on a boat in my backyard for about 20 years. Solenoid went out on it and at the time I did not know how to troubleshoot it and fix it. Over the last 3-4 years I have gained some working knowledge of the outboards and now I need to see about getting it started back up! When I acquired the motor had a fairly fresh rebuild on it so I am hoping I can get it up and going. Thanks again. You are great at teaching with clear and simple explanations.
You Sir, have the patience of Job. How you remember where all those parts go back amazes me. I hope your friend paid you well for that long day of work.
Thank you for the very informative videos. I have inboard experience and hardly any outboard knowledge. Our recent purchase is an 86 Welcraft center console with a 1995 175 Johnson and it started having problems right away. Turns out, after replacing the power pack, coils and rebuilding all six carbs that the optical sensor was contaminated with oil and dirt. The shift was also screwed up do to my moving it while changing the water pump impeller. Thanks to your videos on these engines, I now have a running outboard that should last for quite a few years.
This, too me, was an awesome video. When a Technician produces a video for one reason, then finds out things don't work right, then goes through the process of troubleshooting for that failure, it makes for a very great video to the watcher. I have learned so much from this video. I know much more than you expected, and I thank you for that. Just want you to know that I found this video so very informative, and I find that you are a well learned outboard technician......Thank you very much for the video.......wish you lots of good days in your endevours..
One thing I can say about your Evinrude videos..... Parts appear to be the same on most of the lower units from 90 HP to 200 HP. Again, you have the best videos and cover just about anything I need to know about my Evinrude 140. Thanks for taking the time to share your knowledge.
Great tutoring video for us that likes Evinrude outboards and enjoy learning to tinker with'em. I really enjoyed watching it - and getting to se the learning proces unfolding underway.
Thank you for taking the time and making this, I just bought a 225 johnson outboard that hasn't run in sometime and this video is an excellent run through of what to expect and how to deal with these issues. Awesome job bud.
I had mine at a shop that was "starting an Evinrude 150 for the first time in years". Theirs was a bigger challenge .. inside the air box full up to second carb was bat poop! I recognized the little pellets to be what was also inside my "new to me" motor. The shop says the bat guano is corrosive required rebuilding of all carbs! The little critters come in the 'hand grip' opening of the bonnet top cover where there ought to have been a screen! I appreciated the education and put steel wool to plug my bat hole!
Hey Tim, now that's an unusual problem for an outboard to have! Doesn't surprise me that the carbs all needed a rebuild. I hope it gives you many years of good service. :)
I don’t like anything two-stroke, but Stu covers every engine he works on with methodical thought and immediate precision that I learn why he focuses on the obvious and reasons why he leaves others for later attention. Thank You, Stu!
Magnificent. Such a great journey to see just what and how these motors work but also the differences between the smaller and larger Motors. I am impressed with your decision making and communication skills. Very easy to listen to, watch and learn. As a teacher myself I would be happy to show some of my students as your production quality and candid instruction really makes the viewer feel they are there with you and have done a 6 / 7 hour day as well (but not in the way). Surprisingly, I just Googled you and found you are only about an hour away as I’m in Lake Macquarie (Rathmines). I / we really appreciate your videos. Keep up the quality and instruction. Very, very interesting. Thank you. 🙏
mate All your videos are a pleasure to watch but what is magic for me at the very start when your boat starts moving n your cute little dog is rocking with the boat its MAGIC many times i went back just to watch that n i do wish it went for quite a bit longer actually cause a well behaved dog means one thing its owner its treating the dog really well keep posting mate we love then cheers
Thanks a million! I have a 1960 75 seahorse and I’m getting ready to set the timing tomorrow. I have the Johnson factory service manual but there’s nothing like watching someone walk you through it. The belt timing marks are confusing. Easy to line up the flywheel, but the alignment marks on the magneto look different than the manual.
as a former auto mechanic, I loved watching this video, kinda felt like watching Bob Ross on PBS, very nicely done relaxing and educational, thumbs up. Subbed.
I'm glad I watched this video. I sold my boat but if you've ever had one you know what I'm talking about. I love vid's showing the refurbishing of engines ect. If this guy isn't an Instructor at some kind of school, he should be. Very easy to understand and follow. Nice editing sir.
Great video, Thank you!. I watched the entire vid and learned at ton man. The steps you took made perfect sense to me. That nifty starter remote is brilliant! Very informative, well explained and may I say entertaining at times too :) I hope you have as much fun making the vids as they are to watch. Happy to have found your channel, why you don't have more subs is baffling. Cheers, Ed from Canada!
You're welcome. :) I do like that little remote starter. I made it in the "No spark" video, but I should put it in a separate video for people that want to make one for themselves. As far as subs go, nothing helps more with that than happy viewers doing a bit of link sharing. ;)
@@DangarMarine Sometimes the mechanics or the fixers that doesn't know or don't have experience in a field are the best! And your ways is what make us subscribers. Nothing forced! You're a good man, you'll go far in life, don't worry about the subs, take a pic at Andrew Camarata's page and you'll be impressed with his works ethics and I never heard him say the word subscribe! Take care, and just keep being simple! Many in the know don't share their wisdom!
Thanks as always for your great video. This one was very interesting to see such an old motor which hadn't been run in such a long while still in relatively OK nick. Sign of the protective oils applied to the outside and the way it was winterised I guess? Your communication skills are excellent and I very much enjoy watching and learning from your great videos, thanks and good luck with everything.
This was informative! I am sure that trapped water and salt has a real bad effect on many of those parts. The trim cylinders , especially the one on the r/h side will be a pain and likely expensive , if the parts can be sourced. That repair to the shift rod and housing cap was excellent! Keep up the good work!
Having a little weirdness going on. I changed plugs and cleaned the carbs and instead of hitting 3200rpm at WOT I am now hitting 4500rpm. Still feels like there is a bit of power left over which I can't access. Btw I'm running a 78 v4 85hp Johnson seahorse. The other day at WOT I decided to push and release the electric choke and as I did that acouple of times I was able to hit 5200rpm. I unfortunately cannot hit that speed without jumping the choke. Any ideas? Thanks again.
Cheers From Pennsylvania. This reminds me of a very dear Friend now past away who was a real genius with old outboard motors. His personal favorite was a 3 cylinder Scott Atwater 65 horse. We would go out to the Isles of Shoals in New Hampshire with that engine on a 21 footer. Wonderful days. I always brought a spare motor along and gas can. My 6 Horse long shaft Johnson got us in one day when a long fish line wrapped tight on the prop hub. On 9 foot swells we would go backward a bit and fly down the face of it toward shore. Eventually we were home safe with another story to tell. I learned so much from him and all his wisdom from WW2 Navy and so forth. Thank you for sharing your videos.
"Welcome to the wonderful world of old outboards" :) Its a lot of salty fun here in Florida too. You're doing a great job on your videos keep up the fantastic work
Oh and those plastic carbs full of oil rather than gas is what keeps the bowl's mating surface from warping. Just as a preemptive if your going to put one away for winter
Everytime I took my fussy evenrude to my Evenrude Tech Randy, he said I told you to buy the Honda dummy. Lol, he fixed these 25 yrs, and knew their short comings well, like the difference of a stihl saw, or a poulin saw, lots of fixing, now BRP in Canada revived Evenrude, heard they are better now
Wow bro I own a 23 foot with a 99 evinruide 225 ficht I've been watching your videos for awhile now I've learned Alot from you you explain everything very good I appreciate you taking the time to explain your self great videos bro godbless stay healthy and safe ty
You have a fan in France, I've told all my friends to watch your vids, such valuable information for free. Thank you for all the time you have put into this project it's very much appreciated. You should get a dog to keep you company while working. Frank.
Hey. You did a great job simplifying the removal of that lower unit for the novice. I'm trying to bring back a 150 Evinrude Ficht that has been sitting for at least 7 years. It doesn't seem to be seized but I plan to go through all those steps you did minus the carburetor stuff since of course the Ficht is fuel injected. Your videos were recommended by the guys in the Facebook Johnson Evinrude group so there's high praise for someone who doesn't work on Evinrudes that much as you say. Keep at it, and thanks!
stripped my 50hp 3 carbs missing bad it was blew out the jets they were leaking too so reseated the gaskets no money for new ones they tightened up boomer and now no miss running like new
Hello from America! I love your videos, very inspiring. Working on getting a boat and motor used that I can bring back to life because that’s all I can afford. I can’t believe how expensive these motors are, I had no idea until I started looking for a boat and wondered why they charged so much for something so ugly, then I started looking at the outboards even used and was blown away. Best deals I have found over here are on old 70’s and 80’s 2 strokes in on worn out bass boats. Anyways can’t wait to start my journey and look forward to learning as much as I can from your videos. Thank you.
I do a lot of scuba like yourself and getting on to the point over starting an engine with a propeller, i got asked to remove a rope that had got stuck around a prop, so under the boat in diving gear with the keys removed from the ignition i started getting the rope off. I started pulling the rope and cutting it off . The engine was a large inboard engine and was at the top of compression when i pulled the rope the engine did a good 2 revolutions if my arm was in the way would of done some damage just food for thought, But a very good point you brought up like the videos and keep them coming.
I'm not sure if you remember or not but I had a few questions for you about 8 months ago on an evinrude 150. we determined that it needed to be rebuilt. I greatly appreciate that you had found one to work on and made the videos, it certainly helped me I was a bit nervous thinking about rebuilding the engine with no experience in doing so but with the help of your videos and a good friend of mine I wanted to let you know that I have the motor rebuilt and running. Thank you very much for taking the time to create these videos you really are helping. thank you.
Hey Kyle, congrats on getting your outboard up and running again. I was out in this one again today and it is very satisfying to hear them purring along after having them in so many pieces! :)
Hey Stu. As an American when I heard you say you were going to flush the carbs with fresh fuel and because it was dark you were going to use a torch to film it I momentarily had a flash panic moment haha.
I bought a boat with the same type engine, a 1997. The big issue was the corrosion you couldn't see, that took place in the plug wires but didn't come to that conclusion until after ohms checking the coils and a bunch of other steps, so I didn't get the spark you had. After new wires it started, idled and ran quite well. You really drove home the importance of giving attention to maintaining the lower unit after each season, that is for sure.
Excellent presentation, detailed and understandable, and i am not a boat guy. With motorcycles found Kano's Kroil to be a game changer when it comes to loosening rusted/corroded nuts/bolts. Well worth the price. Thanks.
I went thru the same struggles with my 175. Carb bowls full of 2 stroke motor oil. Once I cleaned these out it ran well. Changed the water pump last year, wish I would have seen this video first, the shift rod was an absolute pain in the butt to re connect. But all is good now. Motor runs like a beast, just wants to run and love it's sound when I'm flushing it out after a trip out in the salt water.
Hey, excellent video! Thanks for sharing. Although you could've just taken the lower unit out and tried to start it before putting any effort into the trim and LU. But hey, more than 2 ways to skin a cat.
Agree..Had a 175 oceanrunner..7yrs sat..owner did fog it out prior..I bought the boat cheap..In thirty minutes had it running off a test tank..I always work my way down in this situation.The objective was first get it running...And even though it runs it could still have a weak,bad cylinder..compression test a must.
28:56 Someone "mothballed," prepared engine for long-term storage by filling the fuel system with 100% two-stroke oil??? Displaces water and doesn't rot like gasoline.....
As they say...ninety percent of boats don't wear out...they rust out. I would have been swearing and cursing doing that job...believe me. The more difficult the task the better you feel when it all comes together in the end. Brilliant job mate!
Thanks for posting this. It is great to see what you get when somebody combines a lot of skill and problem solving ability with a lot of knowledge and experience. One thing about these youtube videos is they should help people appreciate what workmanship looks like, and what you pay for if you get a good mechanic.
Very good video. You are very good at instructing what you are doing and why, as well as pointing the cam. I enjoy these type of vids when things don't go as expected...that's real life stuff. Glad you were able to power through the problems and successfully start the motor. You certainly deserved your beer after that task. Cheers from San Diego in USA
Good tips and informations for this Evinrunde, it would be Great if you 'd continue working on this Motor (lower unit seals, carbs cleaning/ setting etc.) 👍🏻👍🏻 thumbs up outboard guru!
Thanks mate. The owner took it for a run this weekend and it went well but then developed an intermitted ignition cut out so it will be back next week for a bit more investigation. I'll be sure to film it.
Stu I appreciate every video you are creating including in and outs of your rebuilds of a detroit diesel, though I am not a diesel guy yet. I have to say I miss these videos when you took us on an adventure. You think you where going to watch Crocodile Dundee and you end up watching Hamburger Hill of boat engines. I love how you picture the truth of old engines, nothing is as easy as you think it is going to be.
Oh Stu this is such a great video for me with a similar Johnson 90 2 stroke. My trickiest bit is getting the gear link attached when reinstalling the lower leg. I just seem to struggle every time. Part of the problem was the engine vibration mounts had corroded and deformed and were causing pressure on the rod. $850 later for a pair of mounts and that’s sorted.
Thank you so much for all the insides of starting a long sitting motor. I have a Suzuki DF225 (94), I checked and run it beautifully in 5 years ago on water muffs, all 6 are 125 . The motor is very clean with little or no corrosion on legs and trim. I ll following your teaching to go through it before firing her up.
I just found this video, when you take outboard legs apart products like Loctite 771 Anti-seize will be your best friend. you use it on all bolts to stop them seiveing up
Actually in the U.S. a soft non hardening gasket sealer such as permatex is a staple for salt water outboards..after wire brushing them bolts like illustrated.
My dad has an Evinrude 150 from the early to mid-1970's. The boat with motor attached sat in his yard for probably close to 20 years without being touched. Over time the boat fell apart (a fiberglass 22' Manatee tri-hull) but motor still hung on the transom. A few years ago, my dad and brother got a crazy idea to try to start it up. They got it running with very little effort. I think they were offered a $1,000 for it as it sat. I think it now sitting in my brothers garage ... we'll probably try to start it again in another 10 -15 years!
Love the video. Why do guys not wash off their engines with a good soap wash, especially around the ram lift. I always gave my Johnson 70 a good spray with WD-40. I sold my boat after 14 years of trouble free ocean use.
Especially when outboards cost a small fortune. I kept my 84 Evinrude 15 hp when I sold my boat so I can use it when I find a welded 14 foot aluminum boat to put it on. 32 years and compression is like new. Runs and idles great.
Excellent Video. Sloppy Certified. If people only knew how much free and good "know how" you are sharing here They would actually buy you a cold one. So many years of experience here, with every explanation.
You're the MVP here. I help people out and teach them about cars too, I happen to be looking at Two Stroke Mercury 8hp Videos and I found your Channel. I recently had a hell of a weekend with a fishing buddy on his boat due to the fact we couldn't get this DAMN MERCURY started. Lucky we had the electric motor so we trolled the whole day and landed out Trout limit. Then I finally got the motor started with a patient and clear head, because you know out in the water the stress factor is so much higher, while learning how to do everything with the waves floating But anyways, I wanted to learn about choke settings, how to cold start engines when to close the choke, how many pulls etc. Our problem was a simple neutral/start setting on the throttle and not having the choke and fast idle screwed out. I might not know marine engines, but after watching your videos... I can definitely diagnose certain components of different marine outboards now, from lower gear units, to carb cleanings and why, fuel filter services, oil mixing and what color the conditions speak about the life span of an engine. You are great at explaining symptoms and budget solutions, so cheers for that. Happy Motoring
Iam a fict cirt . Omc mechinic sence 1987 IAM Crit. outboard 1 out board 2 fict cirt stern drive 1 and corbora cirt retired in 2005 l Good job on the shift rod, good job putting oil in the dry cyclenders.next time pull off the air box make shure nothing is there to get sucked in the carbs. Saves you carb jobs big time We use a remote starter and bump the starter once we add in the oil with the spark plugs out. "Why" did you not do a compresion ck 1st?,, after you removed the spark plugs?,? That would of told you sooo much!!! You would not have to do anything with the lower unit, if the the compression is bad. Means the power head is shot!!!!!! Also all that oil from the carbs was the boat owner winterized the carbs. Very common in our shop to see that. Use starting fluid to help srart the moter also yess wd40 works very well too its extreamly falimable we use it at our shop to start lower compression motors to start. It lubs as well as acts the same as starting fluid. Also you should of replaced the impleor and plate it was shot all those bent vains deffently bent it needed to be replaced. also we dont ever ever ever use red locktight on any lower unit screws omc used Omc gasget sealing compond never locktight youll not ever get those bolts back out. Only locktight we ever use is the 242 blue if we have too, Not the 271especaly not the vilot colored NOT EVER!!!!! Just trying to hlep you save time and money for your customer friend. Take care Ken
Dangar Marine Added tip you can use a small flashlight to look in side the cyclenders to see if theres any cyclender scoring and ck the top of the pistons even though the sparkplugs look good there still may be damage in side
Don't think the shift rod work was correct, all Evinrudes that I've ever done have that orientation bend at the top so should have been left alone - I think Stu re-bent it later having found that out !
11mm is 7/16" , 13mm is 1/2" and 14mm is 9/16". Well, not exactly but close enough. In the USA we don't call it imperial we call it standard- as in standard and metric sockets, wrenches etc. Good video.
Dangar Marineive + ive said it before your a great teacher...but can we have more beer drinking and frustrating looks just so we know you feel our pain...
Because the gear selector was stuck and the controls had been forced I assumed that had caused the bend in the rod but apparently that is factor bent. More information in this video th-cam.com/video/Ufy6W9EI1cg/w-d-xo.html
Anti seize, anti seize, anti seize! on spark plugs screws and bolts, prop, drain plugs. I never go without it.
This might sound a bit over the top but I have been in a similar situation and really didn't feel comfortable (risk of turning a potentially great outboard into a write off) with trying to undo screws or applying flame heat onto aluminium castings mixed with rubber seals or plastics that had stainless steel bolts fused into them. I ended putting heating elements from a domestic hot water tank into a deep tank. And then boiled the water in the tank. Outboard hanging from a chain hoist & dipped in at the required depth & soaking over time.... Worked a treat!!
@Dangar Marine Do you have a way for me to contact you via email with a picture of the remote control for my 1995 Johnson 130hp outboard?
I have a 1995 evinrude johnson 88hp v4 I replaced water pump and thermostats. I have ear muffs hooked up plenty of water pressure going to the leg while running and I have water coming out of the spout but when she warms up after ten mins off running it's starts to spit water on and off. Is it true that the earmuffs don't apply enough water for these motors and that's why I'm spitting water on and off
I have a 1995 evinrude johnson 88hp v4 I replaced water pump and thermostats. I have ear muffs hooked up plenty of water pressure going to the leg while running and I have water coming out of the spout but when she warms up after ten mins off running it's starts to spit water on and off. Is it true that the earmuffs don't apply enough water for these motors and that's why I'm spitting water on and off
Dangar is about the best marine advice anywhere. Most keep this info to themselves so they can rip us off. Thanks to Dangar I’ve been able to do most servicing and repairs myself.
7 years and video is still gold .. well done
My first trip by outboard was 1958. Had no idea what the drive shaft and gear selector looked like. Now I do. So grateful for your patient teaching ability.
Great video m8! I am 71 and just bought a 5.5m fibreglass half cabin with a 140hp Johnson VRO (both 1986 !). It's amazing how many people comment on how "the good old stuff" looks so nice and still purrs because it was looked after for all those years. The auto oiling has been disconnected, apparently they were prone to failing and cutting off the oil supply to the carbs and - well, you know what.
The combo was owned by a fella who in his younger years built a 43ft ferro cement yacht and sailed it around the world for nearly 20 years, so he has done a beautiful job for it to be looking as good as it it. Really enjoyed the video, have subscribed/liked and now ticking off all your other vids. Keep 'em coming m8, it's all Gold for us 'old guys' keeping the classic stuff running.
Thanks David, glad the videos are helping you.
The explanations are excellent. The camera work is excellent. I particularly appreciate the 'real world' vibe to the overall video. I also very much appreciate the explanations differentiating what is bad, vs. what is expected. It eliminates ambiguity. Thanks for the thoroughness and excellent effort put into the production.
Thanks Paul, glad you liked it. :)
I recently purchased a bass boat with a 150 intruder two stroke and after watching this I feel alittle better about this old thumper I have pushing me around. Great video keep up the good stuff!
Spacer washer, “Probably near the end of its life”. As it comes off in four pieces. I love the non judgmental, positive attitude of this guy. ;)
The attention to detail and dedication to excellence separates the common from the uncommon. You sir, based on what you show, by your demonstration -- not self-lauding praise -- are among the uncommon. The Excellent. It is noted and admired. I mean that.
Coming back to this video after a long time, I reckon it's INCREDIBLY interesting and informative. So much knowledge and common sense in your diagnostic and troubleshooting process. Many thanks. Stay healthy and safe in the Coronavirus crisis.
Fabulous vid mate,as an engineer of 45yrs been there many times.watchedthis twice!...Ref corrosion,I've always sprayed my motors at least twice a year with duck oil,it has paid dividends and have virtually no corrosion probs, in fact my engines always have a buyer waiting when I've finished with themregards from the UK an old limey b.
Hey Gerald. Regular maintenance sure goes a long way. In Australia we tend use lanolin more as we have so many sheep but the same principle applies.
Great videos!! Just bought a boat w/Evinrude 130. It's been sitting for 4+ years. Your vids give me the confidence of taking on certain tasks. Thanks again.
Thanks Stu, been watching your videos now and then being a retired mechanic.
Just came across a nice 20ft boat that's been in the shed for 10years.
Checked the hour meter and it's only done 76 hours. 😊
I think it's a 93 model 150hp.
So I was pleased to find this video.
I reakon it should run a treat, My friend who is a boat mechanic said if the gearbox oil is clean leave it alone and do the water pump like you said.
Wish me luck, Stu I will let you know.
Thanks again Steve.
how did you go with this?
Only halfway through my second YT clip mate, Awesome tutorial... Takes great guys like you to do these for the benefit of others... Top shelf as another poster said....
Can't tell you how much I appreciate your vids. I have learned a few keys watching your vids that are of immense value. I am a pretty good DIY mechanic but boat motors are a completely new learning experience for me. I have an 80 horse Merc that's been sitting on a boat in my backyard for about 20 years. Solenoid went out on it and at the time I did not know how to troubleshoot it and fix it. Over the last 3-4 years I have gained some working knowledge of the outboards and now I need to see about getting it started back up! When I acquired the motor had a fairly fresh rebuild on it so I am hoping I can get it up and going. Thanks again. You are great at teaching with clear and simple explanations.
This video is exactly what my boat project is like in a nutshell. Having a blast and learning a shit ton of useful skills and information.
That's the way it should be! Time on the water is fun, but working on your boat should also be fun. :)
Stick with it, you'll get there in the end and it will be immensely satisfying when it is done. :)
Yep, same here. 1987 150 Johnson and a boat attached needing tlc.. one thing after another but its teaching me a lot!
Matt Roy ^
Matt Roy of course
awesome vid. As a relative newbie to engine work, it is empowering to watch a true pro work through the process
You Sir, have the patience of Job.
How you remember where all those parts go back amazes me.
I hope your friend paid you well for that long day of work.
Having just cracked open a 1976 Mercury 204 and comparing the condition of both our motors.. You have filled me with confidence.
Thank you for the very informative videos. I have inboard experience and hardly any outboard knowledge. Our recent purchase is an 86 Welcraft center console with a 1995 175 Johnson and it started having problems right away. Turns out, after replacing the power pack, coils and rebuilding all six carbs that the optical sensor was contaminated with oil and dirt. The shift was also screwed up do to my moving it while changing the water pump impeller. Thanks to your videos on these engines, I now have a running outboard that should last for quite a few years.
Great to hear you got your outboard running! :)
This, too me, was an awesome video. When a Technician produces a video for one reason, then finds out things don't work right, then goes through the process of troubleshooting for that failure, it makes for a very great video to the watcher. I have learned so much from this video. I know much more than you expected, and I thank you for that. Just want you to know that I found this video so very informative, and I find that you are a well learned outboard technician......Thank you very much for the video.......wish you lots of good days in your endevours..
You're welcome mate, glad you enjoyed it. :)
one of your best videos for people who just use our engines, thank you very much from Cancun Mexico
Thanks mate, glad you enjoyed the vid. :)
One thing I can say about your Evinrude videos..... Parts appear to be the same on most of the lower units from 90 HP to 200 HP. Again, you have the best videos and cover just about anything I need to know about my Evinrude 140. Thanks for taking the time to share your knowledge.
I’m not looking to really service this motor. Proceeds to sort of service the motor. I love it mate.
Just watching a bunch of your videos and this one was very informative when i wasn't expecting it to be at all.
Much better than i think you expected.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Superb account demonstrating a first class skill set - well done. Thoroughly enjoyed watching this.
Great tutoring video for us that likes Evinrude outboards and enjoy learning to tinker with'em. I really enjoyed watching it - and getting to se the learning proces unfolding underway.
Thank you for taking the time and making this, I just bought a 225 johnson outboard that hasn't run in sometime and this video is an excellent run through of what to expect and how to deal with these issues. Awesome job bud.
+A B Thanks mate, good luck with the new motor!
Six years on and still very helpful,all the best from the uk.
I had mine at a shop that was "starting an Evinrude 150 for the first time in years".
Theirs was a bigger challenge .. inside the air box full up to second carb was bat poop! I recognized the little pellets to be what was also inside my "new to me" motor. The shop says the bat guano is corrosive required rebuilding of all carbs! The little critters come in the 'hand grip' opening of the bonnet top cover where there ought to have been a screen!
I appreciated the education and put steel wool to plug my bat hole!
Hey Tim, now that's an unusual problem for an outboard to have! Doesn't surprise me that the carbs all needed a rebuild. I hope it gives you many years of good service. :)
I had to go back and start rewatching some old videos. Stu. You’ve had a break, perfect time to bring back some of these type of videos.
Good job, I like the way you show everything step by step
I don’t like anything two-stroke, but Stu covers every engine he works on with methodical thought and immediate precision that I learn why he focuses on the obvious and reasons why he leaves others for later attention. Thank You, Stu!
Magnificent. Such a great journey to see just what and how these motors work but also the differences between the smaller and larger Motors. I am impressed with your decision making and communication skills. Very easy to listen to, watch and learn. As a teacher myself I would be happy to show some of my students as your production quality and candid instruction really makes the viewer feel they are there with you and have done a 6 / 7 hour day as well (but not in the way).
Surprisingly, I just Googled you and found you are only about an hour away as I’m in Lake Macquarie (Rathmines).
I / we really appreciate your videos. Keep up the quality and instruction. Very, very interesting.
Thank you. 🙏
Thanks Steve, glad you enjoyed the vid. :)
mate All your videos are a pleasure to watch but what is magic for me at the very start when your boat starts moving n your cute little dog is rocking with the boat its MAGIC many times i went back just to watch that n i do wish it went for quite a bit longer actually cause a well behaved dog means one thing its owner its treating the dog really well keep posting mate we love then cheers
Thanks a million! I have a 1960 75 seahorse and I’m getting ready to set the timing tomorrow. I have the Johnson factory service manual but there’s nothing like watching someone walk you through it. The belt timing marks are confusing. Easy to line up the flywheel, but the alignment marks on the magneto look different than the manual.
as a former auto mechanic, I loved watching this video, kinda felt like watching Bob Ross on PBS, very nicely done relaxing and educational, thumbs up. Subbed.
Thanks mate. :)
I feel your pain. My boat had set up almost 8 years. Luckily mine was a fresh water boat.
I'm glad I watched this video. I sold my boat but if you've ever had one you know what I'm talking about. I love vid's showing the refurbishing of engines ect. If this guy isn't an Instructor at some kind of school, he should be. Very easy to understand and follow. Nice editing sir.
Great video, Thank you!. I watched the entire vid and learned at ton man. The steps you took made perfect sense to me. That nifty starter remote is brilliant! Very informative, well explained and may I say entertaining at times too :) I hope you have as much fun making the vids as they are to watch. Happy to have found your channel, why you don't have more subs is baffling. Cheers, Ed from Canada!
You're welcome. :) I do like that little remote starter. I made it in the "No spark" video, but I should put it in a separate video for people that want to make one for themselves. As far as subs go, nothing helps more with that than happy viewers doing a bit of link sharing. ;)
@@DangarMarine Sometimes the mechanics or the fixers that doesn't know or don't have experience in a field are the best! And your ways is what make us subscribers. Nothing forced! You're a good man, you'll go far in life, don't worry about the subs, take a pic at Andrew Camarata's page and you'll be impressed with his works ethics and I never heard him say the word subscribe! Take care, and just keep being simple! Many in the know don't share their wisdom!
A valuable vid showing problems with buying a motor that doesn't run, or not professionally inspected prior to purchase.
Thanks as always for your great video. This one was very interesting to see such an old motor which hadn't been run in such a long while still in relatively OK nick. Sign of the protective oils applied to the outside and the way it was winterised I guess? Your communication skills are excellent and I very much enjoy watching and learning from your great videos, thanks and good luck with everything.
Thanks Stewart, glad you are enjoying the vids. :)
This was informative! I am sure that trapped water and salt has a real bad effect on many of those parts. The trim cylinders , especially the one on the r/h side will be a pain and likely expensive , if the parts can be sourced. That repair to the shift rod and housing cap was excellent! Keep up the good work!
Having a little weirdness going on. I changed plugs and cleaned the carbs and instead of hitting 3200rpm at WOT I am now hitting 4500rpm. Still feels like there is a bit of power left over which I can't access. Btw I'm running a 78 v4 85hp Johnson seahorse. The other day at WOT I decided to push and release the electric choke and as I did that acouple of times I was able to hit 5200rpm. I unfortunately cannot hit that speed without jumping the choke. Any ideas? Thanks again.
Clean the carbs. High speed jets, check fuel pump, and fuel lines.
Cheers From Pennsylvania. This reminds me of a very dear Friend now past away who was a real genius with old outboard motors. His personal favorite was a 3 cylinder Scott Atwater 65 horse. We would go out to the Isles of Shoals in New Hampshire with that engine on a 21 footer. Wonderful days. I always brought a spare motor along and gas can. My 6 Horse long shaft Johnson got us in one day when a long fish line wrapped tight on the prop hub. On 9 foot swells we would go backward a bit and fly down the face of it toward shore. Eventually we were home safe with another story to tell. I learned so much from him and all his wisdom from WW2 Navy and so forth. Thank you for sharing your videos.
"Welcome to the wonderful world of old outboards"
:)
Its a lot of salty fun here in Florida too.
You're doing a great job on your videos keep up the fantastic work
Oh and those plastic carbs full of oil rather than gas is what keeps the bowl's mating surface from warping. Just as a preemptive if your going to put one away for winter
You are my go-to when I have boat issues.
Everytime I took my fussy evenrude to my Evenrude Tech Randy, he said I told you to buy the Honda dummy. Lol, he fixed these 25 yrs, and knew their short comings well, like the difference of a stihl saw, or a poulin saw, lots of fixing, now BRP in Canada revived Evenrude, heard they are better now
Wow bro I own a 23 foot with a 99 evinruide 225 ficht I've been watching your videos for awhile now I've learned Alot from you you explain everything very good I appreciate you taking the time to explain your self great videos bro godbless stay healthy and safe ty
Great Vid as usual Stu, I have this same engine in 225 HP that's been sitting a few years. I've been looking for a video like this, Thank you sir.
Hi Mate, you're welcome. I hope the video helps you with your 225. :)
i just got a boat that has a 1958 evinrude lark 35514 on it and you have helped me alot with your videos thankyou verry much
You're welcome Mike, glad the videos helped you. :)
You have a fan in France, I've told all my friends to watch your vids, such valuable information for free. Thank you for all the time you have put into this project it's very much appreciated. You should get a dog to keep you company while working.
Frank.
Hi Frank, glad you like the vids and thanks for spreading the word. :)
Hey. You did a great job simplifying the removal of that lower unit for the novice. I'm trying to bring back a 150 Evinrude Ficht that has been sitting for at least 7 years. It doesn't seem to be seized but I plan to go through all those steps you did minus the carburetor stuff since of course the Ficht is fuel injected. Your videos were recommended by the guys in the Facebook Johnson Evinrude group so there's high praise for someone who doesn't work on Evinrudes that much as you say. Keep at it, and thanks!
Thanks mate, great to hear the vids are helping you. :)
thanks mate i cant afford mechanics but am handy with a spanner youve taught me heaps
You're welcome, glad the vids have been helping. :)
stripped my 50hp 3 carbs missing bad it was blew out the jets they were leaking too so reseated the gaskets no money for new ones they tightened up boomer and now no miss running like new
got a 1990 18'6" sea ray w/ mercury 135 I have been putting off getting running and thanks to you i'm about to go start working on. THANK YOU!!
Good luck mate! :)
You are a complete loon. Thank you. I can't stop watching your videos. Sadly, I have a no need to but you are such a terrific teacher.
Thanks mate, if you are willing to fix them up, there are plenty of old boats around going very cheap, if not free.
Hello from America! I love your videos, very inspiring. Working on getting a boat and motor used that I can bring back to life because that’s all I can afford. I can’t believe how expensive these motors are, I had no idea until I started looking for a boat and wondered why they charged so much for something so ugly, then I started looking at the outboards even used and was blown away. Best deals I have found over here are on old 70’s and 80’s 2 strokes in on worn out bass boats. Anyways can’t wait to start my journey and look forward to learning as much as I can from your videos. Thank you.
There are definitely some good deals to be found second hand, particularly if the engine doesn't start and you know you can get it going again.
I do a lot of scuba like yourself and getting on to the point over starting an engine with a propeller,
i got asked to remove a rope that had got stuck around a prop, so under the boat in diving gear with the keys removed from the ignition i started getting the rope off.
I started pulling the rope and cutting it off .
The engine was a large inboard engine and was at the top of compression when i pulled the rope the engine did a good 2 revolutions if my arm was in the way would of done some damage just food for thought,
But a very good point you brought up like the videos and keep them coming.
I'm not sure if you remember or not but I had a few questions for you about 8 months ago on an evinrude 150. we determined that it needed to be rebuilt. I greatly appreciate that you had found one to work on and made the videos, it certainly helped me I was a bit nervous thinking about rebuilding the engine with no experience in doing so but with the help of your videos and a good friend of mine I wanted to let you know that I have the motor rebuilt and running. Thank you very much for taking the time to create these videos you really are helping. thank you.
Hey Kyle, congrats on getting your outboard up and running again. I was out in this one again today and it is very satisfying to hear them purring along after having them in so many pieces! :)
This reminds me of a 1950's Evinrude that I was given in the 80's and ran for years.
They do seem to be really solid motors, I expect this one to have many years of life left in it.
A great real world video. Glad to know I'm not the only one who doesn't have things turn out as expected.
Hey Stu. As an American when I heard you say you were going to flush the carbs with fresh fuel
and because it was dark you were going to use a torch to film it I momentarily had a flash panic moment haha.
Stu, are you on facebook or have a youtube channel that I can contact you? Thanks, Mate
Excellent video! Like most old things mechanical, we often have to fix five things to get to the one thing we set out to repair.
Great vid. I learned a lot. Keep the vids coming.
I bought a boat with the same type engine, a 1997. The big issue was the corrosion you couldn't see, that took place in the plug wires but didn't come to that conclusion until after ohms checking the coils and a bunch of other steps, so I didn't get the spark you had. After new wires it started, idled and ran quite well. You really drove home the importance of giving attention to maintaining the lower unit after each season, that is for sure.
Dude that was outstanding...love your video s
Thanks Marvin. :)
I'm still watching your older videos Stu. This one seemed to be a lot more work then anticipated. Thanks.
For sure Angelo, things rarely go smoothly!
Well done lad !!
Excellent presentation, detailed and understandable, and i am not a boat guy. With motorcycles found Kano's Kroil to be a game changer when it comes to loosening rusted/corroded nuts/bolts. Well worth the price. Thanks.
Great quality videos keep it up👍👌
Best videos on TH-cam... My 150 vmax has been sitting for 5yrs, hope it doesn't need this much work 😬 Good job 👌👌
Super video! Very useful as always. Thanks so much. Tom
Thanks Tom, glad you enjoyed. :)
I went thru the same struggles with my 175. Carb bowls full of 2 stroke motor oil. Once I cleaned these out it ran well. Changed the water pump last year, wish I would have seen this video first, the shift rod was an absolute pain in the butt to re connect. But all is good now. Motor runs like a beast, just wants to run and love it's sound when I'm flushing it out after a trip out in the salt water.
Hey, excellent video! Thanks for sharing.
Although you could've just taken the lower unit out and tried to start it before putting any effort into the trim and LU.
But hey, more than 2 ways to skin a cat.
Agree..Had a 175 oceanrunner..7yrs sat..owner did fog it out prior..I bought the boat cheap..In thirty minutes had it running off a test tank..I always work my way down in this situation.The objective was first get it running...And even though it runs it could still have a weak,bad cylinder..compression test a must.
Thank you again, some of the BEST stuff on the internet anywhere even if it is 4 years old.
Glad you enjoy it!
I don’t own a boat or an outboard motor. But I can’t turn this off lol.
He's bloody good at explaining things and making it look easy isn't he haha
Get one!
That means it’s time to join the boating life.
@@CodyBosch lol I Have one now!
Really enjoyed your program on how outboards work ive learned a lot watching an talking thru what your doing very very helpful so thank you !!
28:56 Someone "mothballed," prepared engine for long-term storage by filling the fuel system with 100% two-stroke oil??? Displaces water and doesn't rot like gasoline.....
As they say...ninety percent of boats don't wear out...they rust out. I would have been swearing and cursing doing that job...believe me. The more difficult the task the better you feel when it all comes together in the end. Brilliant job mate!
thank you very much for making such useful videos.
You're welcome. :)
Thanks for posting this. It is great to see what you get when somebody combines a lot of skill and problem solving ability with a lot of knowledge and experience. One thing about these youtube videos is they should help people appreciate what workmanship looks like, and what you pay for if you get a good mechanic.
Watching this makes me want to fix an outboard and I don't even own a boat or live anywhere near the water.
Very good video. You are very good at instructing what you are doing and why, as well as pointing the cam. I enjoy these type of vids when things don't go as expected...that's real life stuff. Glad you were able to power through the problems and successfully start the motor. You certainly deserved your beer after that task. Cheers from San Diego in USA
Thanks Jon, glad you enjoyed the vid.
Good tips and informations for this Evinrunde, it would be Great if you 'd continue working on this Motor (lower unit seals, carbs cleaning/ setting etc.)
👍🏻👍🏻 thumbs up outboard guru!
Thanks mate. The owner took it for a run this weekend and it went well but then developed an intermitted ignition cut out so it will be back next week for a bit more investigation. I'll be sure to film it.
@@DangarMarine why isn't 2 stroke oil good for a start up on an outboard motor that's been sitting for a few years?
Stu I appreciate every video you are creating including in and outs of your rebuilds of a detroit diesel, though I am not a diesel guy yet. I have to say I miss these videos when you took us on an adventure. You think you where going to watch Crocodile Dundee and you end up watching Hamburger Hill of boat engines. I love how you picture the truth of old engines, nothing is as easy as you think it is going to be.
Didya know Rodney Rude has a brother?
His name is Evin!
Cheers Gray
Oh Stu this is such a great video for me with a similar Johnson 90 2 stroke. My trickiest bit is getting the gear link attached when reinstalling the lower leg. I just seem to struggle every time. Part of the problem was the engine vibration mounts had corroded and deformed and were causing pressure on the rod. $850 later for a pair of mounts and that’s sorted.
Better safe than sorry I know I'd want to know if my power rigging was a bit dodgy as you say good job
Thank you so much for all the insides of starting a long sitting motor. I have a Suzuki DF225 (94), I checked and run it beautifully in 5 years ago on water muffs, all 6 are 125 . The motor is very clean with little or no corrosion on legs and trim. I ll following your teaching to go through it before firing her up.
You're welcome mate, good luck with your motor.
I just found this video, when you take outboard legs apart products like Loctite 771 Anti-seize will be your best friend. you use it on all bolts to stop them seiveing up
Actually in the U.S. a soft non hardening gasket sealer such as permatex is a staple for salt water outboards..after wire brushing them bolts like illustrated.
You make it look so easy to service an outboard. One can see You definitely know what You're doing.
If the boat is named Joker 2......that should be your first clue.
My dad has an Evinrude 150 from the early to mid-1970's. The boat with motor attached sat in his yard for probably close to 20 years without being touched. Over time the boat fell apart (a fiberglass 22' Manatee tri-hull) but motor still hung on the transom. A few years ago, my dad and brother got a crazy idea to try to start it up. They got it running with very little effort. I think they were offered a $1,000 for it as it sat. I think it now sitting in my brothers garage ... we'll probably try to start it again in another 10 -15 years!
Love the video. Why do guys not wash off their engines with a good soap wash, especially around the ram lift. I always gave my Johnson 70 a good spray with WD-40. I sold my boat after 14 years of trouble free ocean use.
You're so right. A little bit of regular maintenance saves so much trouble and money down the track.
Especially when outboards cost a small fortune. I kept my 84 Evinrude 15 hp when I sold my boat so I can use it when I find a welded 14 foot aluminum boat to put it on. 32 years and compression is like new. Runs and idles great.
It was a moored boat, look at the antifoul. That trim unit has been sitting under salt water for who knows how many years.
I think you are the best teach mechanic I have ever heard. Wish you were in Englewood Florida
Excellent Video. Sloppy Certified.
If people only knew how much free and good "know how" you are sharing here
They would actually buy you a cold one.
So many years of experience here, with every explanation.
Thanks mate!
You're the MVP here. I help people out and teach them about cars too,
I happen to be looking at Two Stroke Mercury 8hp Videos and I found your Channel.
I recently had a hell of a weekend with a fishing buddy on his boat due to the fact we couldn't get this DAMN MERCURY started. Lucky we had the electric motor so we trolled the whole day and landed out Trout limit. Then I finally got the motor started with a patient and clear head, because you know out in the water the stress factor is so much higher, while learning how to do everything with the waves floating
But anyways, I wanted to learn about choke settings, how to cold start engines when to close the choke, how many pulls etc. Our problem was a simple neutral/start setting on the throttle and not having the choke and fast idle screwed out.
I might not know marine engines, but after watching your videos... I can definitely diagnose certain components of different marine outboards now, from lower gear units, to carb cleanings and why, fuel filter services, oil mixing and what color the conditions speak about the life span of an engine.
You are great at explaining symptoms and budget solutions, so cheers for that. Happy Motoring
Just want to say your videos are highly informative, easy to understand, and your efforts are greatly appreciated! Thank you very much.
Thanks Joseph, you're most welcome. :)
Iam a fict cirt . Omc mechinic sence 1987 IAM Crit. outboard 1 out board 2 fict cirt stern drive 1 and corbora cirt retired in 2005 l Good job on the shift rod, good job putting oil in the dry cyclenders.next time pull off the air box make shure nothing is there to get sucked in the carbs. Saves you carb jobs big time We use a remote starter and bump the starter once we add in the oil with the spark plugs out.
"Why" did you not do a compresion ck 1st?,, after you removed the spark plugs?,? That would of told you sooo much!!! You would not have to do anything with the lower unit, if the the compression is bad. Means the power head is shot!!!!!!
Also all that oil from the carbs was the boat owner winterized the carbs. Very common in our shop to see that. Use starting fluid to help srart the moter also yess wd40 works very well too its extreamly falimable we use it at our shop to start lower compression motors to start. It lubs as well as acts the same as starting fluid. Also you should of replaced the impleor and plate it was shot all those bent vains deffently bent it needed to be replaced. also we dont ever ever ever use red locktight on any lower unit screws omc used Omc gasget sealing compond never locktight youll not ever get those bolts back out. Only locktight we ever use is the 242 blue if we have too, Not the 271especaly not the vilot colored NOT EVER!!!!! Just trying to hlep you save time and money for your customer friend. Take care
Ken
Thanks Ken, appreciate the tips!
Dangar Marine no problem i wasnt up set at you!!! Its a lot of people dont know and work harder only to find out the power head is blown
Dangar Marine Added tip you can use a small flashlight to look in side the cyclenders to see if theres any cyclender scoring and ck the top of the pistons even though the sparkplugs look good there still may be damage in side
He is a good mech, I am Also40yrs.one thing you were always taught is to do the basics first, anyway good job
Don't think the shift rod work was correct, all Evinrudes that I've ever done have that orientation bend at the top so should have been left alone - I think Stu re-bent it later having found that out !
Oh the joys of old outboards.
My 1976 75hp Johnson Stinger always seemed to throw up a new issue every time I wanted to go fishing 🎣
11mm is 7/16" , 13mm is 1/2" and 14mm is 9/16". Well, not exactly but close enough. In the USA we don't call it imperial we call it standard- as in standard and metric sockets, wrenches etc. Good video.
Good to know the best equivalents as although 'I bought some imperial sockets, I still don't have a set of wrenches.
Dangar Marine only 3/4 and 19mm are nearly the same without rounding off the head. Anything else will round the head of the bolts.
M&M Cattle 07
Great vid ... showed a lot. Thanks. My 150 Ficht sat for 14 years! I got her running and she runs like a champ.
Nice one, glad it's up and running again. :)
Dangar Marineive + ive said it before your a great teacher...but can we have more beer drinking and frustrating looks just so we know you feel our pain...
I think I can manage that, there are plenty of them so shouldn't be too hard to share the pain! ;)