Almost ready to start the Evinrude 150
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 มี.ค. 2017
- In this video I plan to start the Evinrude 150 for the first time but ultimately find water in the fuel so spend some time replacing the oil and clearing the water out of the tank and fuel lines, adding some Fuelcure (www.wurth.com.au/en/wurth_au/p...) I then prime the VRO pump.
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I'm planning on installing the crank in my 2000 Evinrude 175. You probably saved me from half dozen mistakes with this one video
Hi.
Just watched this despite being 3 years old. I think that it may have been prudent to go up a jet size. Your observation that the factory ones are correct is overridden by the fact that you now have .040 pistons meaning that the air volume is increased leading to a lean mixture.
Excellent series..
Im in the process of doing a rebuild on a 175 evinrude and these videos are very helpful Thank you!
Another interesting and informative video. As an outboard motor owner (Yamaha 115 four stroke) I'm learning a lot from you. Thank you for sharing.
Thanks Martin, your very welcome. Glad the videos have been helping you with your motor.
Cant wait for first start . I've had sleepless nights before the first starts that iv done. But im not doing it online ? your a braver man than me! And a better mechanic .Good luck muka
Hey Garry, I know the feeling. Doing it online is a double edged sword. Someone noticed the misaligned o-ring which is great as I could go back and fix it - extra eyes can be a wonderful thing. Of course when it all goes horribly wrong it is every more embarasing! ;)
So much fun to watch a master mechanic at work.
Thanks for the videos. I have the same motor on a boat I just got, and I have been able to get it running after I ran into a few issues by watching your videos.
You're welcome mate, glad to hear the videos helped you get your motor up and running. Enjoy!
Stu .. I have the exact same Evinrude 150 that ran like a champ until after sitting for 3 years.. now I am fighting it all the way to get it back to normal ... These videos are awesome as I start rebuilding it !!!! Thank you !!!!
You’re welcome. Good luck!
Stu I know you don't know me and I never comment on many videos but I want to let you know how much you have helped me! A couple years ago I was able to change a piston in my 150 mercury and right now I'm changing the forward gear and dog clutch in my lower unit on my tohatsu 140. Ty, your videos have helped me so much!
Before your videos I spent so much taking my boat to a mechanic for everything! Now it goes for nothing, I do everything on my vehicles, motorcycle, and boat lol
Thanks Aaron, glad the vids have been helping you. :)
Great video as usual Stu!!! Can't wait to see her running!!
Thank's Will, I can't wait either. This weekend hopefully! :)
great video. cannt wait to see you Crack open an Evinrude E-tec. great job
Thanks mate. I'm trying to help a guy with a cooling problem on his e-tec at the moment. It's quite an old Gen 1 but next time it's in the shop I'll film it.
Good Tips about clearing out the first bit of fuel. I killed my last outboard when water got into the fuel system because of an old primer bulb floating around in the back of the boat sucking up water. I replaced the motor with a back up outboard but filled the carb bowls on the new motor with water again because i used the old fuel system for the initial test run... ***Face Palm*** Sound advice. Keep up the good work! I really enjoy your videos.
Ah, that happens. Sometimes its easy to forget what is going on out of sight inside those tubes!
love all your videos many thanks one thing mate, cause of personal reasons i left my boat standing on the trailer for about 3 to 4 years (4 stroke inboard 6 cylinder essex marinized ford) when i went there after we did everything we should but the engine was Not firing in the end we suspected fuel problems as the plugs where flooded with fuel that wouldn't even light up with a small blow torch the fuel tank was massive for a small boat, didn't know fuel deteriorates, even now am much too old for boats i still love your videos and anything to do with boats keep posting ate n keep well
Thanks mate, glad to hear you've been enjoying the vids. Yes, fuel definitely starts to deteriorate after a while and can cause lots of troubles with boats that have been sitting for a while. Products like Stabil can help if you know it will be in storage for a long period of time.
Port balancer hose goes to nipple at bottom of air box.
Starboard balancer hose goes to the bottom of crankshaft.
If you are looking at front of motor, it is bottom center, right next to where the tip of the shift rod comes up and connects, maybe 1 inch (2.5 cm) toward port side. I can send a photo, if needed, as it's hard to see with lower cowl back on. It plugs in straight down, so look for a nipple that faces straight up.
The idea here is that excess fuel/oil mix gets recirculated after helping to lubricate the engine or spilling from the carbs.
Also, there IS supposed to be a thin O-ring at the top lip of that fuel cap. That particular design with the vertical lip around the opening is really bad for funneling a surprising amount of water into the fuel tank, once the O-ring falls apart. Once they break off, you would never know they were there.
Thickness doesn't matter too much, as long as it fits tightly around the top of the cap, above the threads. I've cut them out of inner tube rubber in a pinch, and it works well. I make it about 5mm oversized, and I like it better than the original o-rings, because you can see the seal all the way around the cap, and you know it's sealed up properly.
Rain water isn't so bad, but salt water that gets in on a rough day can cause huge problems. Seal those caps ASAP.
-Tony
Thanks Tony, you're the man! I did see that nipple at the bottom of the crank case so I know the one you are talking about. So there is one more long hose that comes off the vapour pump (short one goes straight into airbox), can you tell me where the long one goes?
Will definitely get onto those o-rings and sealant today. It will be nice to have one more problem with this boat squared away.
So I put the airbox and all the hoses on today. There is another upward pointing metal nipple on the crank case very close to the one for the starboard balancer and I am thinking that the mystery one from the vapour pump might go there. It makes sense that if it is a pump it needs a vacuum pulse from somewhere to operate. If that is indeed where that one goes then I think we are all set to fire it up on Sunday. Fingers crossed!
I'll have to go out to look. If I recall, the vacuum line that powers the fuel pump comes out of the block horizontally, and it usually has a pulse limiter on it- a sort of check valve. It is also a little bigger, either 5/16" or 3/8" (~ 9mm)
Will let you know, as soon as I can.
Thanks mate, really appreciate that.
Hey Tony I'm doing the same to mine right now. I can't find the nipples you're talking about for port side
Hi danger I love watch video rebuilding parts etc. I should learning a lot
Brake fluid is hydrascopic and works well in fuel tanks contaminated with water.
What great job
Stu I use “fuel doctor” in my boat fuel and everything else that uses petrol. It’s a great product.
Great video thanks for the help 👍
Thanks Andy, you're most welcome. :)
Awesome video, i had similar issue with the hoses on the 70hp vro evinrude. But got there place on the airbox and the vro pump
Thanks Brian, should have this finished tonight in time for the week. Looking forward to it! :)
Dangar Marine awesome enjoy
Nice video Stu!
Thanks mate. :)
Thanks for video.
You're welcome. :)
Stu, just to back up the comments by Tony- those fuel caps must have O rings at the top of the threads on the caps themselves. They are notorious for letting water into the tanks ( same design for fresh water tanks has been used on ocean going yachts I have been on and a couple of tacks out of the heads and your fresh water is garbage - they are just generally a bad design) and should be relocated to be vertical as even with o rings, water sits there waiting to drop into the tank unless you blow the fitting dry with compressed air before opening them.
My OEM manual for my Johnson engine has a section that mentions changing the carb jets for altitudes above 1000ft ( dam lakes are mentioned) and for 'tropical use' , in both cases going down one jet size. The generic manual also mentions the changing of jets for higher altitude running, but no mention for 'tropical' . The generic manual does state that each carb may need different jets due to air flow and engine placement differences.
In terms of fuel mixing, no need for those fancy jars - for 50:1 just multiply the litres of fuel you have added to the tank by twenty and that's how many millilitres of oil to add - I am a bit lazier- I take the litres of fuel, double it, add a zero and that's the millilitres of oil to add. IE - 35litres = 35 x 2 = 70, +0 = 700mL.
And I too was doing the "WTH" about the two stroke being the only one available. My engine likes the semi synthetics though it is of the era of caster oil and nitromethane based two stroke oil.
As for the rain, there is a bloke down the road who has this huge wooden boat in the backyard , and all these animals keep disappearing around here - should I be worried?? :-)
Hey Ron, we've got loads of nitrile o-rings in the workshop so I'll find a couple that fit, certainly don't want to be fighting water in the fuel each time. I really like your formula for 50:1 oil mixing, that's a good one to remember. Don't worry too much about the bearded bloke with the boat as long as you and your mrs get a seat!
U are the man now I got problems with mine it's getting harder to start johnson 150 I think I'm going to change plugs but I think it getting way to much gas
You may be getting that petrol smell if it isn't firing when cranking as the unburnt fuel runs out the exhaust. I think you are on the right track to check plugs and check for good spark on all cylinders.
Check to see if the little red knob on the fuel primer solenoid hasn't been turned partly on. It should lie straight back in line with the cylinder, not sticking forward or sideways at any angle.
Flooding motors will usually start instantly for a second, then die and not want to start again, unless you open up the throttle all the way to suck up the extra fuel, and then you have to be very careful not to over-rev the motor. You will definitely smell raw fuel.
If your motor is very difficult to start, and you are NOT smelling fuel, check to see if primer solenoid is working properly. Usually, it's the push-to-start function of the key that is getting sticky or corroded. You should hear a light click when you push the key. Remove the cowl and listen again. If you still don't hear anything, there is your problem.
Otherwise, Stu gave you the best answer. Change plugs and check spark.
If spark is weak, check inside both ends of your spark plug wires for white or green corrosion. Check inside the orange primary wire boots going to your coils for the same. Also, very often the ground straps on the coils themselves will get coated with corrosion. I've had many motors with weak spark for that reason. Pull the coils, wire brush and grease everything, including the mating surface that they are mounted to, and reassemble. If that was the problem, it will run like a champion afterward.
After that, you are looking at the power pack or stator. Corroded leads or bad voltage regulators/rectifers often mess up the power pack.
Is your tachometer working properly? If not, your powerpack is probably damaged, and will probably need to be replaced. But go through the basic stuff first. It will be time well spent, regardless of what you find.
Best wishes on that.
Man... Sitting on the couch for a week has turned me into a Chatty Cathy! I need to go work on a motor...
It sure does make a huge difference cleaning all those connections up, a simple but very effective thing to do. It's interesting you mention the primer, I had an outboard with a similar problem where the choke plates weren't opening fully. The spark plugs being very black was the clue to what was going on there. Hope you get some workshop time soon! :)
The issue of Jet Sizes is prolly spot on. Especially in a new motor. Run just a tad rich for break-in. A tad rich will not hurt anything. No motor ever seized being slightly rich. Plenty have being slightly lean ...
OMC was not able to get out from under the "un-burned fuel mandate" from the US EPA, so they tended to run their engines about on the edge of possible lean burn, and have been doing that for years. Just ask all the V4 owners who ate a piston along the way ...
Carbs are not as efficient at managing fuel ratios as EFI under all running conditions. Carbs will have peaks and valleys in fuel ratio based on harmonics in the induction charge. Running in a valley for very long might put you into hot piston territory. Stepping up one jet size will carry you over at that critical RPM.
Sounds right.
Why is it whenever someone does a major mechanical job on a piece of equipment something has to always come up right before you fire it up? Lol. I've been I that situation before myself. It is a good thing though that you found all that water Stu. I've been told that water in fuel is really hard on a two stroke engine. That motor looks great. And don't feel bad about having pre start up anxiety. I feel that way with every big job I do on any engine. I always pray to the gods of good running motors as I carefully turn the key! Than after it's purring like a kitten you can sit back with a cold beer and relax with a smile on your face! 👍
Thanks Jack (is that right? my terrible memory!) I did give it a sneaky crank today with the plugs out and it turned over nicely. It was a bit slow so I checked the battery and it was very low so I've put that on charge for the real attempt to start it on Sunday. I'm half anxious and half excited. :)
"... which I particularly like, cause it's the only brand available..." Laughing my ass off at that comment... but seriously, can you NOT get anything else (short of crossing the continent...)? I'm sure that Valvoline stuff is fine. When I was a kid, I used Shell stuff, because the place I worked was the area distributor of Shell products, and we employees got a really healthy discount on it. I figured Shell oils and products would be readily available anywhere on the planet... perhaps not. As for the fuel tank cap, yes, looks like it could use some TLC around the collar, and for those types of caps, seems to me, there's usually a small seal at the very head of the cap, top of the threads, or else a flat washer-type seal in the horizontal piece of either the cap itself or the collar. The flat washer-type seal would be recessed in a channel, glued or cemented in. As some other commenters have said, those vacuum tubes in question off the 2 banks of cylinders likely meet up with fittings on the airbox when that reappears.
Hey Stan, I'm glad someone got a laugh out of that. The truth about that oil is that as a car workshop we have a supplier that will deliver to us within the hour or so and it is the only brand they stock. I was too lazy to run up the road and buy anything else so just ordered that. It makes sense that all the lines go to the airbox (for both referencing intake vacuum and re-burning fuel vapour, but there didn't seem to be enough ports on the air box. I must have just missed something so I'll whack that on today and get ready to start. :)
Stan Patterson I
Family first man 😊👍🏻no problem at all happy to wait for your videos and good luck with the motor , as for the hoses I have no freaking idea🤣 , also wishing your wife a very happy 🎉
Thanks mate, looks like the hoses are all sorted now and I'll pass on the birthday wishes. :)
Really interesting.Can't help wishing on many different youtube channels that videos belonging to a series were numbered.Just afraid of missing out,that's all.
On the channel page they are all grouped into playlists sorted by upload date.
Hi Stu, Re jet size, don't forget that you have up sized the pistons so you are no longer stock. You will be close but not exactly the same. Great place to get help advise on all outboards is the scream and fly forum and the iboat forum (where I go the bulk of the OMC info). I got great advice for the Evinrude 175 rebuild and my latest projects building Yammie 225excels.
Interesting point about slightly increasing the bore size and what effect that will have on the mixture. I really do need to go back and do that video with the engineer. I should start making a list of questions to ask him during the interview. I'm guessing the larger bore will create a faster air flow during induction which means the volumetric efficiency won't be as good with a same size throttle body which will effect the torque curve, but I'm hoping it won't make it run lean.
I went back through the info I received and the gent that gave me this advise stated when he went over 020 and if I recall correctly you haven't so it should all be good.
"Anything I build over .020 goes up 1 size....
The 91 150/175 was the hotter(hp) engines but most troublesome due to way casted/made. Make sure you have block pressure tested before any machine work and due the updates (intake gaskets/grey spark wires/sealing plugs on throttle body)"
More and more it is sounding like these carbs should go up one jet size then. There are actually 040 so I'll give the engineer a call on Monday and see what he says. I'm happy to continue working on getting this started up in the short term, but for long term health it sounds like a change might be in order.
well done !!!
Thanks Anothony, ready to go this weekend I think!
I have that very same fuel cap and the removable cap ( male side ) does have a fat o-ring at the top of the threads right at the flange. Without it you WILL get water in your tank. And if you don't know, the opening in the mounted collar goes downhill.
Great work Stu! I always look forward to your videos each week. I'm stuck in Canada in the winter so I get to stare at my yamaha for another month waiting to get back out on the water. I really appreciate all your hard work putting these videos together man. They are always educational and informative. Good luck on the first run!
Thanks Jesse, not long to go now until you can get back out on the water!
ALWAYS A-sk for a thumbs up as well. TH-cam is big on positive feedback.
Got the same motor but the spitfire (identical internal) If you need pics of anything let me know. Started mine up for the first time in 6 years. New gas, oil, and she roared to life.
Thanks Clark, I really appreciate the offer. I think they are all in place now but if they turn out to be wrong I'll get in touch about those photos. Great to hear your motor is up and running nicely. I hope it gives you many years of enjoyable boating! :)
Hey Stu was wondering if you could do a video on troubleshooting an over temp alarm. Even while the tell tales still pumping strong. Love the vids btw mate keep them up
Yes, that is a good idea for a video. It can be many things from a stuck thermostat to blocked water jackets to a faulty temperature sensor. Plenty to go through.
I hope u ll show us the moment when u ll start the engine...coz i want to play some "hard music"...
till then,thank u for sharing with us ur knowledge!
Hey Florin. Yep, will definitely be filming trying to start it. Hope it won't be sad music!
Ty
Yamaha gets water in oil tanks also. Always dump them out and check for water every year. One can pull some out with a suction gun from bottom of tank. Remote tanks below deck a common issue for water contamination
Yes, it's well worth losing half a litre of oil to keep water out.
When I raced two stroke motorcycles and had to re bore them, we always had to re jet the carbs because the larger bore would mean they would run lean.
Maybe this was the problem from the previous rebuild if you could find nothing obvious wrong?
Stu, you rock man, I love your videos! you work so thoroughly, I'm impressed. I'd be scared shitless starting a rebuild and I was enlightened to hear you say something to that effect :)
Thanks man and looking forward to you starting it up and running it. I wonder if you can give a rough estimate of what something like this rebuild would cost? Cheers mate!
Hi mate, maybe when you've done hundreds of them you can be relaxed about it, but so much time and effort has gone in that I do feel a bit anxious about it right now. Oh well, we'll find out soon enough! All up I think this rebuild has cost about $3000 in parts and the engineer's work. That doesn't include the work I have been doing myself so you would have to add that if you were paying someone else.
Ahhh...welcome back Stu ! I was starting to think you got washed down to Gunyah beach in the deluge over the weekend. This must be stressful and would completely understand if the Coopers consumption ratio has risen since the crankshaft went back in . Am I right ?? I don't believe you could have been more thorough mate so what will be will be... hope all goes well when you turn that key over the weekend and hopefully take the Joker 2 for a sea trial (weather permitting)
Thanks mate, it sure did rain, didn't it. Sunday is the day I'm hoping to launch it. Fingers crossed the weather will be good, but I think we'll head out anyway. I'll post some Instagram pictures as we go. :)
mmm...nothing like the smell of a bit of two stroke in the morning..
I think every fuel cap on top like that should have an O ring....I'd put one on...That's why there's water in the fuel....
For sure, definitely needed sealing up.
What I’m using here is valvoline 2 stroke, which I particularly like as it’s the only one available!!! 😂😂😂😂😂😂
If you want to eliminate all of the water in a fuel system.., pour 2 gallons of anhydrous methanol into the tank... It will force the remaining water to merge with the new gasoline.., drying oput the tank.... Install 2 inline water separators too... Can't be too careful.....
You mention bringing in some help around the shop. Here are some of my observations on the matter...
Always start new employees with a probationary period to assess their skills before hiring them long term. Let them know this up front to be fair to them.
Generally, it works out best if you either get someone young and eager to learn, or an older guy. The young guy will be cheaper, but often a big investment in instructing them. But if they are loyal, you may gain an excellent employee. Older guys usually know their worth, so they cost more, but are usually worth their weight.
What has worked best for me is paying on a percentage basis, NOT by the hour. Hourly guys tend to piddle, as their pay goes up the slower they work. But percentage guys or "piece workers" only make money for what they produce, so they work hard to produce as much as they can.
So, let's say you charge $75/hour for shop work, plus materials and shop fee. Pay your guy 50%. ($37.50 per billable hour.) A skilled worker can knock it out in much less time, so he will make good money, and you are making profit from every piece of work he produces. You just have to understand that a good technician will make a sizable paycheck at the end of the week. Just remind him that he has to do it right, as work that comes back due to mistakes will be fixed on his time! This helps keep quality control high.
As long as his quality is high, and you have the volume of customers to support both of you, it can work out very well.
On the flip side, if a guy is slow, and/or makes a lot of mistakes, it might take him 2 hours for a 1-hour job. Discuss the problems as soon as you notice them, and try to help him correct his weak spots. But if after giving him a reasonable chance, it's not working out, end things in a calm, way. "Agree to disagree", if you will. Just watch out for the guys who will try to steal something before they go.
This system has worked out very well for me for almost 30 years, now. The good guys make good money and stay around, and the bums wash out pretty quickly.
Best wishes and hopes that you will find the right employee for your particular business.
It can be an amazingly fraught thing hiring staff I can imagine. Our biggest problem is that as a small shop, we can't really afford to pay that well yet, but knocking back work because we are too busy isn't helping us to grow to be able to afford the staff - it's a bit of a catch 22. I really do appreciate the words of wisdom from someone who has been in this situation for many years as it isn't something that working for someone else ever really prepares you for.
You know... If you do a video asking if someone would like to be an intern for your shop, I wouldn't be surprised if you got excellent volunteers. I'm sure many would love to put in time just to learn what you could teach them. You could get some quality workers in the mix. It might be a win-win situation for everyone.
I'm currently running a one-man show. We have ailing parents, and I had to be around, so I shut down the main business.
What has worked well is getting an occasional day of help from a friend. I'm happy to pay him, but we end up just trading days of working for each other. Excellent work quality, integrity, honesty, skill, etc. So no worries, and no long-term expense.
Working with people you know and trust is always great, and I also really like the idea of trading days of work.
Will there be a video on starting the evinrude on Sunday
These videos have been great. Was there any synchronization necessary with the carburetors on this engine? Also is there any way of adjusting the idle speed of these engines?
I never did a link and sync on this motor because it seemed to run just fine. You can affect the idle with mixture screw adjustment and timing adjustment, but they are mostly quite factory set.
I can use for my Evinrude 70Hp1994 sintétic blend oil
Yet again another great video sorry cant help with the pipe positions.
Thanks Andrew, no problem. :)
Hello, thanks so much for all the content you have published. I have learned a lot from you. I am restoring my fathers 1983 honda bf 7.5 hp. I've worked my way through a couple problems so far but I am stuck on water in engine oil. I took the powerhead off, replaced the powerhead to oil case gasket and oil ring, the head gasket and o ring , intake manifold gaskets, thermostat, and oil filler cap and O ring. Is there any other thing you think it could be? Thanks again
Hi Dylan, sounds like you've covered the main culprits. You could also take a look at the lower main seal, but I wouldn't expect to get a lot of water in that way, more oil leaking out.
thilltony is correct. I have been around outboards for the past 30 years. How did the motor come out?
Yep, he sure was. Motor is running nicely now, but I have the gearbox back in the shop at the moment to redo the seals and impeller.
40 to 50 liters is ~12 us gallons for $70 which is ~$6 per gallon. I suppose this is australian dollars. Still we pay $2.35 per gallon here in USA dollars.
Stu,
I just went out and took a look to refresh my memory. Which "long" hose do you mean?
Either way, just so it's out there, here is a breakdown of the fuel routing.
In summary, the fuel goes through a filter, down into the VRO pump, mixes with oil and is pumped up to the float chamber, and then to the carbs on either side.
Now, let's follow the flow through the individual hoses.
The fuel and oil comes from the fuel and oil tanks into the clear connector fitting. The fuel then goes up through a hose into the big, white "garden hose" size fitting, which is a fuel filter. From there, it comes right back out just a little to the left of the white fitting and down to the middle of the VRO... The oil comes straight from the clear fitting right to the VRO.
Now, looking at the BOTTOM of the VRO fuel pump:
1. The 1/4" hose in the front of the VRO is oil from the clear inlet fitting. (long)
2. The 3/8" hose in the middle of the VRO is the fuel inlet, coming down from the fuel filter outlet nipple that is just to the left of the big, white "garden hose" type fitting. (long)
3. The 3/8" hose toward the back of the VRO is the vacuum hose. That routes down and to the right and connects to the block only a couple inches away. (short)
From there, the pressurized fuel leaves the TOP of the VRO into the bottom of the float chamber. At the top of the float chamber, two hoses go right and left, to each fuel rail going into the two banks of carburetors. (long)
And that's pretty much it, from what I can remember. If you still have an extra hose, let me know.
-Tony
Hi mate. Jared posted a video on the hose I was referring to, it comes from the top of the vapour pump. You'll see in the comments on this video we discuss that there are two nipples quite close to each other down low and I think they were the last two I wasn't 100% sure about. th-cam.com/video/GqM1L-RYJRo/w-d-xo.html
Glad you got it figured out.
Looking forward to hearing how she runs!
hello great video. did u ever find out where the lines from the vapor pump go. if so could u please explain. i cant figure it out. thanks
Somebody did eventually tell me where all the lines went, but I can't recall what they were now. You'll probably find their explanation in the comments somewhere.
So are you primarily a boat mechanic or do you do this as a hobby/side work??
Love the videos by the way!!
Thanks mate. The workshop is a car workshop, but with living on an island we do lots of boats for friends and neighbours because they are always sinking and breaking down or whatever.
Dangar Marine Yea they tend to be a money pit, especially when you have to use them all the time for work and what not.
I live in Florida and work on boats, jet skis, and everything in between and deal with the exact same salt water corossion you do so I feel your pain :-)
You can't beat salt water boats for corrosion problems. Suddenly undoing a single bolt can take over an hour!
Just a thought: i think you should mix the 2 stroke oil you put in the fuel tanks at a ratio of 1:1 with fuel before you introduce it into the tanks. the fuel you pumped/drained from the tanks looked to be rich in oil. pouring the oil straight into the tanks just settles in the bottom of the fuel tank without mixing with the fuel. this is also seems to be evident as the float bowls were full with 2 stroke. if i am mixing oil/fuel i do so at the gas station (all the oil and half the fuel) the driving to the boat ramp mixes the oil and fuel. once at the ramp it is 100 ft to the fuel dock were i top off the tanks.
Modern two stroke oils mix chemically almost instantly, very different to the old days of putting normal sump oil into the fuel.
Stu: when you get an abused motor, (as in either has been drowned or just sat for 30 yrs, where do you start? I have a 1979 Merc 2S, 6Cyc 115hp. Have pulled plugs, look like water or dirt inside. Carbs look rough, wiring all dried and cracked. Do I start at engine or go check from prop inwards/upwards? Or find a rubbish bin? BTW thanks for videos, as I am going to school with them, and the repair manual. Bill in Texas
Hi Bill, this video covers the basic things I would do th-cam.com/video/XiewGg7XxO8/w-d-xo.html
Stupid me but I am trying to find a kill switch or lanyard attachment on my boat. It has been in storage for 10 years unused. I can't remember if it had one? I use a key to start the outboard. (Off start on) are the 3 positions on ignition on console. Anyway as you can guess I tried starting it after 10 years lol no luck. So I am thinking I have a kill switch I need to deactivate so that I can start the outboard or maybe carbs need cleaning?? Clue - I ran a spark test and I am getting strong spark. I am thinking I don't have a kill switch since I am getting spark? Am I correct? I would like to know before tearing into the carbs and cleaning them. Also have 120psi in each of the 3 cylinders. Thank you!!!
What's the yellow/black outboard on the stand @ the 5 minute mark ??
I'm pretty sure those hoses just go on the air box which seems to be missing when you attach that you will see where they attach
Thanks Callum, it makes sense they go there but I couldn't see enough ports on it for more than the top one. I'll double check it today.
Also, for what it's worth, those motors really like the semi-synthetic oil. The absolute winner around here (Virginia, USA) has been the Penzoil Marine XLF. (Extended Life Formula) I recommend it to all my customers, and often get follow-up thanks from them.
The biggest thing you notice is a sometimes dramatic reduction in the amount of smoke the engine produces. And the smoke that it does make isn't as stinky. Your plugs and the he inside of the engine stay cleaner, and most report that their engine just "feels" like it's running cleaner and smoother. The surprising thing is that it is only $17.99 a gallon locally at Walmart, which makes it a win-win. Strangely, the Penzoil full synthetic does not review as well, and it costs double.
Here is a link to the product on Amazon, so you can see it for yourself. At 25/gallon, it's not as economical as buying locally
www.amazon.com/dp/B00C43BOTM/?tag=googhydr-20&hvadid=175193622365&hvpos=1t3&hvnetw=g&hvrand=15853000013458331415&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=b&hvdev=t&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=1027174&hvtargid=kwd-68757613640&ref=pd_sl_84dpea0w0y_b
-Tony
Thanks Tony, I'll check that out. I'm a firm believer in using quality oils for four stroke motors but had never really paid much attention to two stroke oil. I'll see if we can order a case of the Penzoil.
I typically see it the opposite way. Like an automobile, if you change 4-stroke oil regularly, and never let it get old, it probably won't matter who makes it, as long as it's an ASE certified oil.
2-stroke oil, on the other hand, is actually getting burned by the motor, besides it's role in lubricating the engine. So if it produces a lot of carbon, it can foul plugs or even form deposits behind piston rings, which will eventually destroy the engine.
If it leaves gummy deposits, it can foul carbs or injectors or internal passageways, and cause major problems. And other similar things. So I have found that using a quality 2-stroke oil is even more important that in a 4-stroke.
But that being said, I tend to use good 4-stroke oil "just in case." I just don't worry as much if I don't have the good stuff on every change.
It is a good point that regular changes of four stroke oil are really the key. He had a seized BMW with only 50,000kms on the clock recently that had only had one oil change in it's whole life. What a was of a near-new engine!
Great Videos, any plans to continue with the startup video after the rebuild?
All the vids for this build are together in this playlist th-cam.com/play/PLJD0gZGZdCuf8O8RX9SQbzukZilvUpGnl.html
Dangar Marine
Is the last video where you drain the water from the fuel? Did you do another start of the motor after the overhaul?
Hi Stu, got a question that I have not asked yet. when 2 stroke oil injection is set correct are the plugs still slightly wet? you would think that with a oil gas 50:1 mixtures they would be. Thanks
Hmmm, good question. If a engine is firing properly I wouldn't expect the spark plugs to be wet as such, it is more the colour of the electrode that oil ratio will change.
ok, as I thought thanks Oh and watched all of your 150 videos. awesome. got some SS fuel line clamps today. expensive but we'll worth it.
Have you decided what you think caused the piston failure on this motor? Do you think it could have been the water in the fuel? Causing a loss of lubrication in the cylinders? Edit: Thanks for the video!
No, never could say conclusively but all of the above are possibilities.
at 4:38 would have been a great time to remove the oil pickup , check the filter sock and check for low-oil circuit.
and there are tests for the No-oil and oil consumption (using a clear 1/4" ID tube full of oil)
The oil tank did get cleaned out and we've been running it on premix and monitoring the oil consumption at the reservoir. The oil level in the reservoir has been dropping as expected so getting ready to move to straight unleaded soon.
Cool...did you test the low-oil circuit and the no-oil circuit? let me know if you need the steps...from what I've seen if the pump is acting up it pumps too much oil or not enough gas...only if the oil reservoir or oil line is compromised with there be no oil pumped through.
@@cfauvel could you share the steps to test this?
@@rglover28328 are you talking about the low-oil and no-oil warning tests? Then yes
No-oil- Running an external tank of premix, disconnect the oil inlet and idle the motor at about 2k… the warning horn should sound in 2 -3 minutes . If it doesn’t then either the horn is bad or there is no tack pulse ( volt regulator usually supplies tach pulse)
Low-oil- suck out oil from the reservoir to a point about 1/4 tank… the horn should sound once a minute or so… if not keep removing oil from the reservoir until about 1/8 I’d left… if the horn doesn’t sound then either the float switch is bad or there is a cut in the wire harness
One of my videos I do the no-oil test after replacing the regulator.
What do you do with the old oil, contaminated fuel? I guess it is taken to some kind of recycling center? Wonder what it used for after that?
We had a waste oil IBC that got emptied by a pump-out truck. I believe that recycle it as low-grade fuel for running power generators etc
Looks like the water in the fuel was the issue to start with
I wondered what happened on the next series on the 150, I thought I screwed it up some how. I think you did a great job on this build. That water in the fuel tanks is a big red flag for me. You look tired mate...get some rest and we will wait for the next video.
It was a while to get this one out, and yes, really do need to get those tanks sealed up. You're right, I've been feeling quite exhausted lately. So glad it's the weekend!
THAT TUBE GOES INTO THE AIR COWLING FOR THE CARBIES . YOULL SEE WHERE IT FITS
quick question Stu...how many feet long is Joker 2 ? Thanks
Hi Mate, from memory it is exactly 6 metres long. When we get it out on the water I'll go over the boat itself in more detail as the owner intends to sell it straight away.
Thanks mate....great day for it today. Don't forget to stay well hydrated :)
Danger Marine, I have questioncan I keep 45 Elgin or get ride of,turn over ,but won't start can you please tell me where can I find parts.?
I'm not sure where you can get Elgin parts from, you might be able to find some on eBay.
Now if that water got into the cylinder, could there have been enough to hydrolock that damaged piston?
I think it is unlikely to get enough in through the carburettors to do that. It would mostly just block up the jets and make it run badly.
great vid not to bag on ya but I wish I could at least get a reply on a couple of questions I posted thanks
Hey Scott, I must have missed your question to get to this comment without seeing it. Can you post it again?
The VRO pump is "The Octopus"?
I don't want to sound stupid but if you just pour a litre of oil into the fuel tank and can't mix it because you're not filling with fuel after, doesn't a lot just sink to the bottom because it's denser than the unleaded? Then when you primed the line isn't a good portion of that oil coming out with/after the water, it looked awfully dark green and not at all like fuel/oil mix?
As I profess to know nothing about boats or outboards, just asking, but if it's going to run the oil injection and premix isn't it therefore running lean too? I mean you've got more oil, therefore less fuel going through the carbs so maybe you need those larger jets. I realise it's a tiny portion of extra oil but I know it makes a difference in highly tuned chainsaw engines etc. Running 25:1 vs 50:1 you'd have to retune a worked saw. Again apologies for boat ignorance but I just like watching your videos and explanations.
Hi mate. Yes, VRO pump was part of the octopus. In the old days of just using regular oil it wouldn't mix well, you are right, but modern two stroke oil is designed to mix thoroughly almost straight after being added, you don't need to worry about that. Well spotted on the fuel having too much oil in it. I spoke to the owner afterwards and he said he had connected the starboard tank too and that $35 had gone into each side. As a result I will be adding pure unleaded to the port side now to get the ratio correct.
It's also a good point you make about extra oil does equal fuel, but it is only for the first few hours and I don't think these motors are in a high enough state of tune for it really be a problem. I will be keeping an eye on the temperature though because my only real concern would be if it ran hot from being lean.
The break-in oil ratio is vital to prevent damage, and to allow all the engine components to wear in and seat together gently and properly. This has been the standard in 2-stroke outboards for well over 50 years. Your engine will not run lean on that mixture, but will more lubricated due to the extra oil, which does burn, by the way. The only downside is that it may smoke a little more, and it could dirty the plugs if you idle for extended periods of time.
Never skimp on break-in procedure or times! I like to let her idle on the hose for the first hour or so, hitting the throttle every once in a while to clear things out. Then, you put the boat in the water and vary the RPM every few minutes. You can open her up for one minute at a time, and then allow 5 mins cool off time at lower RPMs in between. After the first 5 hours, you can rev up to WOT for a couple of minutes at a time, then back down to lower, varying speeds. It takes patience, but proper break-in really pays off in the long run.
Has it been rebuilt and if so are they original pistons.
Yes and no.
hi. may I question?
What's name of equipment? lifting of engine. in the video of front
Hi mate, that is called and engine hoist. It is generally sold for lifting engines out of cars but it works will with outboards too.
really thanks u ^)^ your video always be helpful to me.
You're welcome. :)
I have a 200 hp 2006 etec motor, can I change my powerhead out to a 250 or 250 HO using my same lower unit, nothing wrong with existing powerhead just want more power, thanks.
Possibly. I've never worked on either of those motors. All the boats around here are small commuter boats less than about 50HP but an Evinrude dealer should be able to tell you straight away.
Everything aside......your incredible patience is quite admirable................fair fucks to you..........x
interesting I put the carb back in with the new float and primed it in the engine but fuel was coming out the throttle and vent. obviously the float is not set right. so need to troubleshoot shoot that on the work bench and the Yamaha fuel pump. Oh fun haha
th-cam.com/video/dzxLAaLLVjM/w-d-xo.html
ok update here with video. figured out how to test the merc carb and yamaha fuel pump for leaks off the motors. fuel leaks on a boat is super dangerous as my friend found out with his boat 300 ft down in the puget sound burnt up. fortunately another boat got him and his friends off before it sunk in flames. first mistake he made was using a kicker motor that was not his and not checking it for leaks before they went out. next mistake was not using the fire extinguisher and trying to put it out with his cooler water. Anyway the float on the carb was set wrong and to fix it just copied the mid carb setting from the factory. hooked up my testing method here and no leaks now. success👍
Nothing that I can suggest that you already did.
Thanks Phillip. :)
I'm concerned that fuel was put in the tank and adding the oil after. I don't see how it could properly mix sitting in the shop. The fuel you later purged out was very dark, similar to the oil, as if the oil went to the bottom of the tank and out the line from purging.
Also, I've read from other people in the field to not use worm drive hose clamps. They don't seal good enough and the VRO oil and fuel systems NEED to be very tight as leaks cause problems which are often blamed on the VRO.
Modern two stroke oil mixed very readily. You only need to put some in a clear jar of fuel to see what happens - very different to old oil that needed vigorous mixing. Worn drive hose clamps are fine. They can hold the pressure of EFI systems without leaking which shows how well they seal.
I would replace it with a new vro or bypass it and get crazy and make an Adriano oil mix @ 50:1
Hose go. Air. Box. Two.
Hey Stu, got two questions for you. Im doing a 92 v4 looper. Service manual is telling me to not use any sealer on the base gasket between the center pillar and power head but here on the v6 you did use something. Its supposidly self sealing with the heat of the motor. Im wondering how that things gonna heat up and seal with water flowing. Also my headgaskets require sealer and im wondering do I keep the sealer off or on the center metal ring of the gasket?
Thanks,
Bryan
uh oh.... I can see a problem right at the start. The Coopers has downgraded to Carlton draught ............ this could be a disaster
I don't know what I was thinking. ;)
i need a t-shirt in the states
Link in the description. They are printed in the states.
Anytime I do a rebuild, I always do the initial start on a super clean dry, portable 6 gal plastic tank, With fresh Premium petrol & top line TC-W3 Amsoil at 40 -1 I want only the best and best, & better best going in them nice clean carbys.. To much work & time to chance it, I need ""NO"" fuel ghost making me doubt my build, period.. just me.. kodibass
It had crossed my mind too to run off a portable tank for the first run, particularly until the tanks are sealed well enough. Fortunately the rain has settled down hear but I agree somethings shouldn't be left to chance.
I agree 100% on using a test tank, especially for a nerve-racking first fire. (Big butterflies every time) Amsoil is top notch stuff. I use a test tank for everything I work on. No time for fuel issues, and if problems come back, that could help narrow down the cause.
One thing I would NOT recommend is running premium, 93 octane. These are made to run on 87 or 89 at the most. 93 has been known to melt pistons. I had two come into my shop with melted pistons last year, (which is kind of rare) and I asked them if they always ran premium, and both said, "Of course!" Both were on fast bass boats, which is a contributing factor.
The original warning I heard was a Yamaha factory service bulletin that my dealer shared with me some years ago. I asked my OMC rep what he thought, and he agreed they are made to run on 87. I've known people that run 93 with no problems, but that service bulletin always sticks in my mind. Mine run great on fresh 87 octane, and I've never blown one up.
Yeah, I've decided to go with a test tank for the start up, I have one in the shop so it is easy to rig. Interesting to hear what you are saying about higher octane burning up pistons. It seems counter intuitive given higher octane fuel is more resistant to detonation. In Australia premium fuel is 98 octane and 91 is the lowest you can find. I've always run my outboards on 98 as it is also a better quality of fuel.
Wow, that is interesting. I wonder if they use a different way to determine octane there, like SAE versus metric? But you guys may just have better fuel there. I imagine the engines there are adjusted to run on it without problems.
What I was told, is that higher octane fuels are "thicker", hence they burn slower/longer. That's why they don't detonate or knock as easily as the lighter fuels tend to. But because they burn slower, if there is a chunk of carbon on the top of a piston, the fuel will stick to it, and keep burning after the power stroke is over, and during subsequent cycles, This causes a "hot spot", eventually melting the piston.
I am not an expert by any means, just parroting what I've been told because the source seemed credible, and hoping it is helpful. Please feel free to reject or correct these comments at will.
I wish you could see the piston in the 200 Venom I have here. It was absolutely liquefied! The rings were still in it, but the entire aluminum piston was reduced to blobs. I'm trying to decide whether to rebuild or just find another powerhead. I'll get to it eventually.
thilltony It looks like the rating system is different. The effect of higher octane is possible, but I'm no expert either. ;) www.reddit.com/r/explainlikeimfive/comments/1iedtv/eli5_why_does_american_fuel_have_less_octane_than/
Moved off the Coopers mate? lol
The owner of the boat brought the Carlton! :)
Back timing off 3°and jet carbs rich. They melt pistons for no reason.
It is weird the way these motors melt pistons, and yes, backing off the timing and richening up will definitely make it run cooler.
Dangar Marine I built many since 1970s. Loop charged OMC melted alot. The new BMC Bombardier hold up well. Back in 1978 they made high ring pistons where all the top keystone rings peeled off. We had to warranty dozens here in NY on Long Island. The old style cross flow designed still running today The 3cyl 70 and 115v4 from mid seventies still going even in salt. Yamaha stole their designs. Mercury v6 held up ok but the straight six ng in salt. One slight overheat melted pistons no overheat alarm either like OMC.
Yamaha 350 cranks snapping now . Good Job from NY Cheer s
At 6:00 you added the 2-stroke oil directly to the tank on a boat on the hardstand. How do you expect it to mix.
Assuming the engine had an oil injector issue,this would explain the overcooked outcome after your rebuild.
It ran just fine on the external tank with oil well mixed (prior video) didn't it ?
Say the oil pump was cactus, AND your new fuel was not mixed, thus raw. It may have been green but was still way to lean.
It must be pre-mixed before addition to tank otherwise it just settles at the bottom of the fuel tank and will only mix slowly over time and movement. Did it run long enough to detect a drop in toe 2-stroke oil reserviour ?
Many years ago two stroke oil needed to be mixed thoroughly, these days modern two stroke oil is self mixing and, "formulated with a special solvent to disperse quickly and readily throughout the fuel in the fuel tank" Of course it is also a very windy 30 minute drive down to the water.
This style "zip tie" used to be standard equipment on all Johnson/Evinrude outboards. I understand it was also used on some Mercury and Yamaha application. Johnson/Evinrude #320107. fuelhoseziptie.com/ or www.hellermanntyton.us/ProductDetail.aspx?p=112-52112
It's interesting to see these, I wonder if the curve on the head is what allows them to wrap nicely around the hose prevent any leaks?
Yes. They work very well, too! I buy them by the hundred, and use them daily. Better than metal clamps in many instances. That first link Wizard posted shows the mechanics of why they work.
Once you start using them, you will probably never look back, as long as you can get them at a reasonable price. I think I pay about $10 for a bag of 100, or $0.10 each. If you buy them in smaller numbers, they are like $0.50 each.
Id like this motor but its to old school not the best on gas and the emmisions suck i wish it was an etec
The fuel cap looks like it would leak like a shower head.
James is my nane
Sorry you got hurt, Please don’t try to use your hands, You actually could be permanently impaired if you use your work too soon,,, You really had a serious injury.
Will there be a video on starting the evinrude on Sunday