I retired after forty years as an operations agent for a major airline. Thought I'd seen everything. Well, I was wrong. I've dealt with plenty of bird strikes and more than a few cracked windshields and damaged nose cones. This was a whole new level of damage. Great video.
I’m guessing not with an airline that flies into Alberta a lot? I’ve seen hail damage like this on aircraft many times in the past, and I’m not even a pilot.
@@Ea-Nasir_Copper_Co Is that from exceptionally large hail or the amount & intensity at that altitude? It looks like it was struck by a cow! Terrifying
Awesome video! The production work gets better and better! The 3D imaging and shots of the aircraft, even the audio levels adjusted, wow. This is excellent work by somebody who loves and cares about what they do. Great video!
@@philipwhiuk I actually was a little disappointed that they didn't drop the professionalism for one second to properly communicate how utterly fucked the nose was. If there's any time to say something like that on frequency, this was it.
I got caught in a golfball-sized hailstorm driving on the highway once, and the noise was terrifying - like getting hit with a hundred baseball bats. I can't imagine it while being up in the air.
Also once had a big hailstorm when driving. Not so nice. But at leas, we can easily slow down. Not so great, when you have to keep 60/70 tonns in the air.
Not a pilot but I've spent my life in the Marines and FDNY and that controller did an incredible job. Calmness and efficiency in situations like that go a long way to making everybody feel a bit better. Pilots as well, that's a lot of damage.
jschrager23 someone screwed up big time. Even funnier was the crew telling pax that this is the kind of stuff they train for, which isn’t true at all 😄
well they train for handling hail damage i believe. some boeing even have been tested for landing capability while looking out of the open side window there is a youtube th-cam.com/video/dEMcD-RWA9A/w-d-xo.html but i doubt that they train for that procedure. not disputing that they screwed up though.
I didn't realize that an airplane could fly with that kind of damage. Makes me feel safer when I'm flying. Redundant systems works. Wow. Thanks for the pictures. Wow.
From the looks of the nose you'd think they lost a fight with a boulder. Thank goodness they were all okay. It's amazing the pilots managed to land with that windshield
Things to consider. The onboard radar in airliners is state of the art but when precipitation turns into frozen hail it does not show up as a radar return with the same clarity as liquid precipitation. The engineering space in the radar dome at the front of the airplane is very close so any damage to the [ so called ] RA Dome, will prevent the antenna from oscillating [ sweeping ] and the radar becomes unusable. Ice [ as large as baseballs ]contacting an aircraft which travels close to the speed of sound will do tremendous damage. The crew did a great job.
Why isn't the return off of hail as good? Is it because of the wavelength range of the radar or something else? (Meteorology student asking, so I'm used to the NWS network of 88Ds that give high reflectivities for hail.)
@@TH-cam.TOM.A For ground radars, I know snow isn't as reflective either, but from what I've been taught, dry vs. wet hail doesn't have that much of an impact on the NWS NEXRADs. They can usually see thunderstorm tops pretty well. I'm curious as to what part of the radar leads to that difference. I'll have to watch that video to see if they explain. Thanks for the link!
@@zacwarrior82 The equipment that I used had airborne doppler and was satisfactory for airline use. I have flown around in 100 % IFR visibility in icing conditions, and had no radar return, not just clouds but icing conditions, using anti ice equipment on wings and engines. Hail does not always show up; if it is wet hail your chances are better to have radar returns. You also have to consider that as a rule Airline equipment separates itself from significant radar activity, by at least 20 miles, but I have had pebbles of hail hitting the front windscreen with no radar returns.
@@TH-cam.TOM.A I'm not questioning you or the equipment as I have no experience with this. My questions are merely out of curiosity. What I'm wondering is why airborne radars struggle to pick up dry hail whereas ground radars do not. I know it's related to the reflectivity of dry hail; however, if the NWS ground radars don't have issues picking it up but airborne radars do, then there is a difference in the radars leading to this. That's what I'm wondering about. Nexrad radars are S-band radars and I believe airborne radars operate on a higher frequency (like C or X band, correct me if I'm wrong), so my guess is that the higher frequency changes the scattering properties of dry hail enough to lower the reflectivity considerably for airborne radars. Or potentially something else? That's interesting to know that airborne radars can struggle to pick up hydrometeors even if they are hitting the aircraft. Adds perspective to how important aviation forecasting is.
Great video as always! Just a suggestion maybe you can change the color of RED subtitle because it's kinda hard to read especially in small screen and low quality. Maybe use lighter red or orange for substitute.
Johnathan Bruno exactly. She handled it like it was any other landing. That's what you want. Getting excited does no one any good. She did us in El Paso proud.
LOL, I always love these. ATC - Straight and to the point. Pilots - Straight and to the point. Ground vehicles - Hhhhhhhhheeeeeeeeeeyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy yeeaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh we're are over.......over..........yheah we are over here at Alpha.....Alpha........Alpha 4. Looking for uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh permission to go ahead anddddddddd cros on over.
First time to see the usage of a discrete frequency for a emergency in the USA. Here in The Netherlands we have a discrete frequency for emergencies where all sectors, approach, towers can work on if needed. So the aircraft doesnt have to switch frequency, just the ATC controllers switch.
Internationally ( including the US) the freq 121.5 is used as an "emergency" freq. Civilian and Military constantly monitor the freq, but if a flight needs to declare an emergency there is no need to change to 121.5. The AA flight would have been in contact with Albuquerque Center and would have declared an emergency with ABQ Center. *IF* there was any issue with the plane changing frequencies, they would have moved everybody else off that freq. But in this case AA was able to change frequencies, so the prudent path was move them to an empty freq. and then everyone that needs to can just monitor that freq.
With the 121.500 GUARD freq, its pretty much the same but its mostly used by ATC's and Air Defence stations to call up planes who dont respond on the ussual sector frequencies. The DEF freq, 120.875 (or 120.880 with the 8.33 spacing), is a Dutch nationalwide frequency for emergencies within the Amsterdam FIR where all airports, upper and lower area control sectors and militairy ATC can operate on. See for example: audioboom.com/posts/3762027-csa619-mayday-01-11-15
Hello State Farm, I would like to report a claim. Ok what it the damage? Well our windshield is broken and some damage to the front of the vehicle. Did you get a estimate? Yes we did, between 1 and 5 million dollars. Can you tell me what are deductible is? Hahahnanaaz
I’m just wondering how they got into this situation to begin with. Be nice to hear the conversations with center. Did they try and shoot a gap to go between cells? Or did it all erupt very quickly.
I am always amazed in this kind of situations there seems to be always quite a lot of confusions on ground between ATC, aircaft, ops vehicles, ambulances etc. There seems always to have pople talk on wrong frequency, switch back and forth on different frequencies before communication is established
I just had a thought. You can use the powerful transmissions from analog TV stations as a very basic passive radar. When a aircraft passes through the signal it gets scattered and it is very easy to detect this using $20 hardware and the appropiate antenna. As the aircraft passes the Doppler shift is quite visible. How do aircraft comms deal with this? Is the Doppler shit miniscule that the frequency doesn't change to a noticeable degree?
This probably has to do with the physical radios themselves. Mobile units, the radios in ground vehicles, don't get a lot of vertical lift and the tower is several hundred feet up. They are all supposed to be on different frequencies, so if a vehicle is in a 'dead zone' (which might only be a few feet wide) they can't hear that someone is talking to them, or they can't be heard. Hence all the switching, trying to find a frequency that works for everyone. Once the plane is on the ground, there's time for that.
Wow this is probably the best one yet! 👏 both the pilots and the atc were cool as cucumbers. Great pics too. Wonder if safelight has has those windows in stock😁
What's going on with all the frequencies after they landed? They seem to have changed to a different (maybe the "normal" and not the designated one they got earlier) approach frequency and everyone tried to contact them on ground frequency, even though they didn't tell them to go to ground frequency?
Hey, just wondering if you could look into this one incident up here at CYVR on the 12 of June. There was this one United flight that, at around 0825 local time said that he was having electrical problems. After leaving Canadian airspace, he seemed to do some sort of box pattern for a few minuets, but then returned to CYVR as an emergency. People in the terminal (myself included) gathered to watch this flight land and then had about 6 or 7 fire engines trail behind it. I got a few videos of the incident, so if you want them, I can send them to you. Thank you so much for these great videos, keep them coming!
Well done by the crew. Having the windows shatter like that has to be one hell of a shock and trying to land with just about zero forward visibility can't be fun...... -Ski
A chunk of ice at 300-500 knots will mess you up pretty good. Can you imagine what the crackling and crunching of that windshield must've sounded like when they started getting pelted?
When I was in San Antonio two years ago a hail storm came through and punched holes in roofs and made car dealerships parking lots looking like a Cobra gunship made a gun run. I can't imagine flying through that at speed.
in 1977 a severe hailstorm over Georgia downed Southern Airways 242. The DC-9 flew through the hailstorm and suffered damage to the windshield, but hail also knocked out power to both engines. The pilots attempted to land on a county highway, but struck a gas station while touching down. 72 people (63 on the plane, 9 on the ground) died, while 20 passengers and both flight attendants survived.
As an instrument rated, commercially-certificated pilot (only fly for recreational, though) I am dismayed at a major airline penetrating a super-cell thunderstorm. Especially with the incredible weather-avoidance gear at any pilot's disposal. Wow.
Yes I get it, modern planes can land on auto-pilot if you enter the airport into the computer, hence the need for the tow to the gate, cause they had zero visibility through the windscreen, great job by the windscreen maker, at flying speed which is 5-6 times faster than a car, it did not collapse even with great damage. Am wondering if this flight crew kept their jobs since this could have been avoided, and did NTSB investigate? Very calm professional on the radio, especially the ATC. Nice
The antennas may have taken a few hits, if the slight communications difficulties they had a couple times are any indication. Of course that could just be stressed out pilots not managing the radios well, but I'll forgive that since they got the aircraft safely on the ground. I know I wouldn't have done as good of a job.
Slick work from the Controller. But no trip to the White House...I think that was a bit more difficult than shooting a single engine approach...other than explaining why they screwed up in not using the weather radar.
Why didn't Approach hand them off to tower ? Seems like App landed them which is unusual and didn't even ask them to switch to tower or ground until they really needed them
It sounds like they were barely able to communicate at all - there don't seem to be repsonses to most of the transmissions from approach. That may be partially due to the location this was being recorded from, but approach DOES say at one point that they are not in contact with the plane, and they have to hunt around to find what frequency it's on.
just a map with airplanes on it. the blue dash with the dots behind it is the airplane and where it was short time ago. enlarging the dots and dashes would be nice though.
It's basically what the controller sees on his screen. The markings are not labeled to reduce clutter, learning what is what is part of the training. What is shown is configurable, usually you have airway intersections, reporting points (fixes), VORs, airports and some others I can't remember at the moment. Weather radar can be added as well.
It would be hard for you to see runways hard to explain, look for circle, in center are runways, you can see dashed line leading to some runways in center of circle. Example KBIF is Fort Bliss airfield very close. KELP Elpaso is the airport, There are 3 runways 6 total directions. 2 parallel east/west plus another NE/SW runway. Do you see it now?
It's basically an airport diagram of KELP, with the runway at KBIF (Biggs Army Airfield-1.5 miles north of KELP) shown. It looks like the TRACON scope (Terminal Radar Approach Contoller), which also shows the controller the extended runway centerlines. The restricted airspace north of El Paso (for White Sands Missile Range/Holloman Air Force Base) is also shown.
Damn, they were right in the thick of it. It was made worse by the fact that the weather radar probably couldn't penetrate the outer walls of the storm so they could take the quickest path out, and it looks like the poor bastards were scrambling while inside the cell.
I want to hear the CVR during & after the assault - it must have sounded like they were under machine gun fire or flak (like the ww2 bombers over Germany), pilots must have thought they were about to disintegrate: extreme aggression!!!!!!! Passengers likely hit the airport bar HARD afterwards........
JohnnyG sometimes when weather is very bad, especially hail, the radar is unable to detect it because of what's called attenuation. Look up radar attenuation or weather attenuation. They thought they turned for a clear spot which was actually hail covered in rain. Wet hail is nearly impossible to detect with many radar systems.
That whole area should have been avoided. Large storms like that should be given a 20 nautical mile berth flying around it. These guys were inside of it! No, this is not what should have happened. Dry hail has less reflectivity than rain so the pilots could have been avoiding the heavy reflectivity areas (in red) and flew towards green or yellow and got smashed with hail. Going back to my 20 nm berth point - this is exactly why you should give these storms a wide berth from ALL reflectivity (including green) and not just avoid the red areas.
Sccratlanta it looks like they tried. Not so successful. As I said, they shouldn’t have done that. They should have avoided the entire storm area. Going into that storm is like flipping a dice because you can’t get a full picture of the storm using airborne radar so you may be flying into a trap.
A very similar thing happened to a Delta A320 a couple years ago over the northern midwest. They were about the shoot through a gap in the storms, but the storm built up in front of them too fast for them to beat it. I suspect this incident was similar.
Therion018 what I’m pointing out is that this is a screw up. This is not normal. They shouldn’t have done it. Shooting between storms is not something you “try” to do to see how it goes. It’s something you avoid because you cause significant damage to the aircraft and potentially people will be injured. This is not something to be viewed as “ah crap, the weather just got the best of them”. No. We know this can happen and pilots are educated to fly around storms by 20 nm for these exact reasons.
And here I was thinking I was the cool cat who managed to drive through a hailstorm on the interstate and it took out my windshield, cooling fan, radiator, and severely damaged the oil cover when the belts and pullies sent it flying up to the hood of the car. I got nothing compared to this plane. lol
Aviation Fan787 That is pretty normal for a hail designed aircraft.. The composite is supposed to let the radar signal through it so it is actually pretty thin.
What's happening? Blown out pax windows, blown out ckpt windows and cracked windshields. How in the world did they land with a windshield like that?!?!
As said by the other guy, training, skill, and technology. And I heard from a Mentour Pilot or Captain Joe video that if they can't see anything from the windshield they might need to open the window and stick their head out.
DLB19901107 If they airport has a CAT III ILS approach the airplane can literally complete the full landing itself. Now just to be clear I can’t got and have my Cessna do that, but a million dollar airbus or Boeing with the right systems and autopilots can.
Hey VASAviation! Can you do a video on the crash in Daytona that involved an instructor and a student in a Piper Seminole? It was from my school and they suspect microbursts at this time. Thanks! Love your videos
What I'd like to know is why did nobody video this as it was happening! It had to be crazy in that plane and everyone has a camera....and yet there's no video of it. I really want to know what sounded like.
A nose is a most fragile part of an aircraft look what hail did to it and rest of the aircraft was fine now go to that 9/11 video where the aircraft's nose is coming all the way through the other side of the building and ask yourself some questions plzzz
OK, PILOTS, LISTEN UP! At exactly 1:19, look at the satellite picture. That circle you see immediately north and northeast of the airplane is a supercell. How do I know? Look at fifty miles in all directions. All you see is cirrus, pressed up to the tropopause, and spreading out. The massive thunderstorm has very discrete portions punching well through the trop, due to momentum. Almost all thunderstorms that penetrate the trop by 5k+ are severe...these are well above that. I would estimate a 60 thousand foot thunderstorm, with a 48 thousand foot trop. This aircraft flew into the dead worst part of the dead worst storm within 200 miles. I wrote a 210 page, FAA-approved weather training manual for flight dispatchers, and this one has me shaking my head....
0:33 He actually says "We're running some checklists here and we're going to need just a little bit of time before we're ready for the approach." Nothing about burning fuel.
Maybe this is naive, but since there was a severe storm and lives were at stake, could no one at the airport check Doppler Radar on TV, to see what's going on inside the storm? Doppler can detect hail. I don't think ATC radar detects hail.
ATC was not very polite to the ops vehicle. I work in ops, and it’s very important to get the aircraft and the ops vehicles on the same frequency so that can communicate.
What the hell were they doing flying into that kind of weather? They handled the emergency well, but it looks to me like they also caused that emergency. They flew right into that cell.
One thing I’ve noticed about most ground communication is that most of these ground units have their head up their ass. Try listening instead of doing whatever else you are doing. These units need better training.
Ka Jun Lo sometimes when weather is very bad, especially hail, the radar is unable to detect it because of what's called attenuation. Look up radar attenuation or weather attenuation. They thought they turned for a clear spot which was actually hail covered in rain. Wet hail is nearly impossible to detect with many radar systems.
@ Ka Jun Lo onboard weather radar is a tool that requires a lot of training to use properly. Most pilots do not get any training on weather radar other than how to turn it on.
If the flight crews suspects attenuation, can’t they just run the tilt down until they’re picking up ground clutter behind or beyond the storm, and if there’s areas in the sweep that don’t return ground clutter, then this would confirm attenuation and just don’t fly into those areas ?
![[REAL ATC] American A333 | ALL FLIGHT ATTENDANTS SICK in flight!](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/D9JQ-tnc4uQ/mqdefault.jpg)
![[REAL ATC] American A333 | ALL FLIGHT ATTENDANTS SICK in flight!](/img/tr.png)
![[REAL ATC] American B757 has COMPLETE RADIO FAILURE out of Kennedy!](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Wcq6KipBOro/mqdefault.jpg)
Safelite Repair, safelite replace.
$50.00 deductable! 🤣😂
I hate and love this
Speedy glass repair, speedy glass replace
(also: Autoglass in the UK)
Carglass répare, Carglass remplace
(yeah it's like that in France)
You're all nuts. That'll just buff out.
Wish I could've seen the pilots' expressions when they saw the nose cone afterwards. Incredible.
“Ya they got a bit of nose damage as well” *show nose completely dented in* lol
I retired after forty years as an operations agent for a major airline. Thought I'd seen everything. Well, I was wrong. I've dealt with plenty of bird strikes and more than a few cracked windshields and damaged nose cones. This was a whole new level of damage. Great video.
elk hunter imagine the noise inside the cabin
steff serpent oh that would be scary, I have pretty much no fear of flying but I might be a little worried in this situation! The noises oh no!
Well, its always like that. You're convinced you've seen it all and right then or shortly after something happens that on a whole another level.
I’m guessing not with an airline that flies into Alberta a lot? I’ve seen hail damage like this on aircraft many times in the past, and I’m not even a pilot.
@@Ea-Nasir_Copper_Co Is that from exceptionally large hail or the amount & intensity at that altitude? It looks like it was struck by a cow! Terrifying
The captain probably landed the plane like how Ace Ventura drives, with his head out the driver window.
@Zeksteve It was a joke... 🙄
@@Victor_Victory just ow that would hurt to do that
@Zeksteve whoosh...
LIKE A GLOVE?!?
P pop
Awesome video! The production work gets better and better! The 3D imaging and shots of the aircraft, even the audio levels adjusted, wow. This is excellent work by somebody who loves and cares about what they do. Great video!
Thanks for watching!
Can you imagine the sound from inside the aircraft?
Like a dishwasher being beaten with a million golf clubs... and you're strapped inside the dishwasher.
@@gastonbell108 😂😂😂
@@gastonbell108 or worse...in a washing machine on full high spin with a load of golf balls
@@gastonbell108 and the dishwasher is at 11,000 ft
I'm trying to imagine what it must have been like to deplane, turn around, and look through the terminal window.
"Could you ask Ops if they see any damage on the airplane besides just the windshields?"- Umm, do you really wanna know? :D
Caracal yeah when he said let me check around the aircraft for you I was thinking shouldn't he of done that already
At that point, they were going to get towed in anyway, so it didn't really matter. Maybe he was asking on behalf of the company.
He was getting the information ready for his "I fucked up" call to company.
"Ya your plane looks like it landed on it's nose" would have been my response.
@@philipwhiuk I actually was a little disappointed that they didn't drop the professionalism for one second to properly communicate how utterly fucked the nose was.
If there's any time to say something like that on frequency, this was it.
I got caught in a golfball-sized hailstorm driving on the highway once, and the noise was terrifying - like getting hit with a hundred baseball bats. I can't imagine it while being up in the air.
Also once had a big hailstorm when driving. Not so nice. But at leas, we can easily slow down. Not so great, when you have to keep 60/70 tonns in the air.
Be glad it’s not softball sized hail. My dad’s car had to be in repairs for about a week.
Not a pilot but I've spent my life in the Marines and FDNY and that controller did an incredible job. Calmness and efficiency in situations like that go a long way to making everybody feel a bit better. Pilots as well, that's a lot of damage.
That had to be pretty dang scary for the pilots, watching your windshields getting destroyed three feet away from you.
At farmers insurance, we know a thing or two because we have seen a thing or two. We are farmers, bum da bum tada bum bum bum.
The we are farners bum da bum part played on the tv at the exact same time i read that at the same speed.
*Most of you asked for it and here it is! Apparently this aircraft went right through the very worst part of the cell...*
aren't they supposed to avoid weather? what happened here
jschrager23 someone screwed up big time. Even funnier was the crew telling pax that this is the kind of stuff they train for, which isn’t true at all 😄
Fcreceptor yeah. Someone did. This could’ve ended much worse than it did
well they train for handling hail damage i believe. some boeing even have been tested for landing capability while looking out of the open side window there is a youtube th-cam.com/video/dEMcD-RWA9A/w-d-xo.html
but i doubt that they train for that procedure.
not disputing that they screwed up though.
Thanks for posting. I live in El Paso and was driving to Phoenix and had barely crossed into Arizona when the storm hit our area.
I didn't realize that an airplane could fly with that kind of damage. Makes me feel safer when I'm flying. Redundant systems works. Wow. Thanks for the pictures. Wow.
From the looks of the nose you'd think they lost a fight with a boulder. Thank goodness they were all okay. It's amazing the pilots managed to land with that windshield
The noses are made of fibreglass (aka glass-reinforced plastic) for radar transparency.
I watch way too many aviation videos and that was the most helpful and on the ball controller ever.
Things to consider. The onboard radar in airliners is state of the art but when precipitation turns into frozen hail it does not show up as a radar return with the same clarity as liquid precipitation. The engineering space in the radar dome at the front of the airplane is very close so any damage to the [ so called ] RA Dome, will prevent the antenna from oscillating [ sweeping ] and the radar becomes unusable. Ice [ as large as baseballs ]contacting an aircraft which travels close to the speed of sound will do tremendous damage. The crew did a great job.
Why isn't the return off of hail as good? Is it because of the wavelength range of the radar or something else? (Meteorology student asking, so I'm used to the NWS network of 88Ds that give high reflectivities for hail.)
@@zacwarrior82 Dry snow and hail is not as reflective th-cam.com/video/c83k1Zttxpw/w-d-xo.html
@@TH-cam.TOM.A For ground radars, I know snow isn't as reflective either, but from what I've been taught, dry vs. wet hail doesn't have that much of an impact on the NWS NEXRADs. They can usually see thunderstorm tops pretty well. I'm curious as to what part of the radar leads to that difference. I'll have to watch that video to see if they explain. Thanks for the link!
@@zacwarrior82 The equipment that I used had airborne doppler and was satisfactory for airline use. I have flown around in 100 % IFR visibility in icing conditions, and had no radar return, not just clouds but icing conditions, using anti ice equipment on wings and engines. Hail does not always show up; if it is wet hail your chances are better to have radar returns. You also have to consider that as a rule Airline equipment separates itself from significant radar activity, by at least 20 miles, but I have had pebbles of hail hitting the front windscreen with no radar returns.
@@TH-cam.TOM.A I'm not questioning you or the equipment as I have no experience with this. My questions are merely out of curiosity. What I'm wondering is why airborne radars struggle to pick up dry hail whereas ground radars do not. I know it's related to the reflectivity of dry hail; however, if the NWS ground radars don't have issues picking it up but airborne radars do, then there is a difference in the radars leading to this. That's what I'm wondering about. Nexrad radars are S-band radars and I believe airborne radars operate on a higher frequency (like C or X band, correct me if I'm wrong), so my guess is that the higher frequency changes the scattering properties of dry hail enough to lower the reflectivity considerably for airborne radars. Or potentially something else?
That's interesting to know that airborne radars can struggle to pick up hydrometeors even if they are hitting the aircraft. Adds perspective to how important aviation forecasting is.
Great video as always! Just a suggestion maybe you can change the color of RED subtitle because it's kinda hard to read especially in small screen and low quality. Maybe use lighter red or orange for substitute.
i second that
That damage is crazy. It looks like he just flew into a block of ice...
That controller is a pro
CowsRus she was calm, clear and precise
Johnathan Bruno exactly. She handled it like it was any other landing. That's what you want. Getting excited does no one any good. She did us in El Paso proud.
I really love when she recommended to turn up the runway lights, thinking outside the box..
Exactly what I was thinking. Solid, professional, and calm. Can't ask for more than that.
ELP ATC are all students
LOL, I always love these.
ATC - Straight and to the point.
Pilots - Straight and to the point.
Ground vehicles - Hhhhhhhhheeeeeeeeeeyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy yeeaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh we're are over.......over..........yheah we are over here at Alpha.....Alpha........Alpha 4. Looking for uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh permission to go ahead anddddddddd cros on over.
This episode is so intense. Great work again. The cell graphics really added to the realization.
Not a pilot, but imagine deplaning that as a passenger. It would freak me out for days to see half of the nose missing on a plane I was on.
First time to see the usage of a discrete frequency for a emergency in the USA. Here in The Netherlands we have a discrete frequency for emergencies where all sectors, approach, towers can work on if needed. So the aircraft doesnt have to switch frequency, just the ATC controllers switch.
Wouter112 that sounds like a good solution. Would like to see the US change rules.
Internationally ( including the US) the freq 121.5 is used as an "emergency" freq. Civilian and Military constantly monitor the freq, but if a flight needs to declare an emergency there is no need to change to 121.5. The AA flight would have been in contact with Albuquerque Center and would have declared an emergency with ABQ Center. *IF* there was any issue with the plane changing frequencies, they would have moved everybody else off that freq. But in this case AA was able to change frequencies, so the prudent path was move them to an empty freq. and then everyone that needs to can just monitor that freq.
With the 121.500 GUARD freq, its pretty much the same but its mostly used by ATC's and Air Defence stations to call up planes who dont respond on the ussual sector frequencies.
The DEF freq, 120.875 (or 120.880 with the 8.33 spacing), is a Dutch nationalwide frequency for emergencies within the Amsterdam FIR where all airports, upper and lower area control sectors and militairy ATC can operate on.
See for example: audioboom.com/posts/3762027-csa619-mayday-01-11-15
@@Wouter112 Yer on Guuuaaaarrrrdddd!
I've never experienced hail that could do this amount of damage. Quite incredible!
Try running into it at NASCAR-level speeds. It'll do damage like that, for sure.
Whatever happened to old philosophy of never ever fly through a thunderstorm?
they dont give a shit
Nose cones are overrated.
Just a little fiber glass and resin. Slap another one together and pop it in place in no time.
To all those long-time pilots that always crawl out beneath the rocks with "advice". how do you know what happens? You don't.
Maximisation of profits and cutting of corners is what happened.
Hello State Farm, I would like to report a claim. Ok what it the damage? Well our windshield is broken and some damage to the front of the vehicle. Did you get a estimate? Yes we did, between 1 and 5 million dollars. Can you tell me what are deductible is? Hahahnanaaz
KD0LRG i
We know a thing or two cause we've seen a thing or two.
@@JohnTimothyRatliffe That's Farmers Insurance.
Roflmao!
We don't often have thunderstorms packing that much power go through El Paso but according to my girlfriend, that storm was pretty intense.
I’m just wondering how they got into this situation to begin with. Be nice to hear the conversations with center. Did they try and shoot a gap to go between cells? Or did it all erupt very quickly.
I am always amazed in this kind of situations there seems to be always quite a lot of confusions on ground between ATC, aircaft, ops vehicles, ambulances etc. There seems always to have pople talk on wrong frequency, switch back and forth on different frequencies before communication is established
12345fowler that's why these videos are so awesome.
IMO the confusion is not that bad but it would be great tech to have a way to see which unit is on which frequency. Would save a lot of time.
I just had a thought. You can use the powerful transmissions from analog TV stations as a very basic passive radar. When a aircraft passes through the signal it gets scattered and it is very easy to detect this using $20 hardware and the appropiate antenna. As the aircraft passes the Doppler shift is quite visible. How do aircraft comms deal with this? Is the Doppler shit miniscule that the frequency doesn't change to a noticeable degree?
This probably has to do with the physical radios themselves. Mobile units, the radios in ground vehicles, don't get a lot of vertical lift and the tower is several hundred feet up. They are all supposed to be on different frequencies, so if a vehicle is in a 'dead zone' (which might only be a few feet wide) they can't hear that someone is talking to them, or they can't be heard. Hence all the switching, trying to find a frequency that works for everyone. Once the plane is on the ground, there's time for that.
OPS3 sounded like he wanted to stay sleeping and not be bothered by all these annoying emergency things.
Wow this is probably the best one yet! 👏 both the pilots and the atc were cool as cucumbers. Great pics too. Wonder if safelight has has those windows in stock😁
the controller lady is fantastic!!!
I need explanation, please. If nose cone and windshield are THIS badly damaged...how so that rest of the plane is ok??
Why did they fly into magenta? That usually indicates hail or really really bad storms.
What's going on with all the frequencies after they landed?
They seem to have changed to a different (maybe the "normal" and not the designated one they got earlier) approach frequency and everyone tried to contact them on ground frequency, even though they didn't tell them to go to ground frequency?
Hey, just wondering if you could look into this one incident up here at CYVR on the 12 of June. There was this one United flight that, at around 0825 local time said that he was having electrical problems. After leaving Canadian airspace, he seemed to do some sort of box pattern for a few minuets, but then returned to CYVR as an emergency. People in the terminal (myself included) gathered to watch this flight land and then had about 6 or 7 fire engines trail behind it. I got a few videos of the incident, so if you want them, I can send them to you. Thank you so much for these great videos, keep them coming!
I bet that aircraft took some handling with all that damage on the nose . And that woman controller did a wonderful job well done her !
I was here on the ground just south of where this plane encountered bad weather and it rained and hailed intensely for a couple hours.
That’s why you stay 20 miles away from a storm !!
Because the hail can reach out several miles from the cell.
Yes the books say 20nm... but in reality airline travel would go below a snails pace if cells weren't skirted during regular ops.
Well done by the crew. Having the windows shatter like that has to be one hell of a shock and trying to land with just about zero forward visibility can't be fun......
-Ski
Jesus! Thats what hail CAN DO?!?!?!
When it's baseball size, yes.
A chunk of ice at 300-500 knots will mess you up pretty good. Can you imagine what the crackling and crunching of that windshield must've sounded like when they started getting pelted?
When I was in San Antonio two years ago a hail storm came through and punched holes in roofs and made car dealerships parking lots looking like a Cobra gunship made a gun run. I can't imagine flying through that at speed.
Yeh. Not a great idea to stick your head out the window during that!
in 1977 a severe hailstorm over Georgia downed Southern Airways 242. The DC-9 flew through the hailstorm and suffered damage to the windshield, but hail also knocked out power to both engines. The pilots attempted to land on a county highway, but struck a gas station while touching down. 72 people (63 on the plane, 9 on the ground) died, while 20 passengers and both flight attendants survived.
As an instrument rated, commercially-certificated pilot (only fly for recreational, though) I am dismayed at a major airline penetrating a super-cell thunderstorm. Especially with the incredible weather-avoidance gear at any pilot's disposal. Wow.
I'm sorry a HAILSTORM did that?!? 😮
Looks like he ran into a small, icy comet.
Yes I get it, modern planes can land on auto-pilot if you enter the airport into the computer, hence the need for the tow to the gate, cause they had zero visibility through the windscreen, great job by the windscreen maker, at flying speed which is 5-6 times faster than a car, it did not collapse even with great damage. Am wondering if this flight crew kept their jobs since this could have been avoided, and did NTSB investigate? Very calm professional on the radio, especially the ATC. Nice
Let's give a hand to who ever design those windscreens...
With all that damage they are lucky the antennas didn't break off.
The antennas may have taken a few hits, if the slight communications difficulties they had a couple times are any indication.
Of course that could just be stressed out pilots not managing the radios well, but I'll forgive that since they got the aircraft safely on the ground. I know I wouldn't have done as good of a job.
Must've felt like hitting a wall when they hit that hail.
Slick work from the Controller. But no trip to the White House...I think that was a bit more difficult than shooting a single engine approach...other than explaining why they screwed up in not using the weather radar.
Well I think we'll be done with the equipment now. 👍📡
That female atc was fucking on point, great work
First time seeing an aircraft with broken glasses and a broken nose (why it sounds like getting a massive punch in the face, not trying to be funny)
1:42 amazing touch! you always add easy to understand, relevant information!
I that's what's been done to the nose cone and windshield, I really would insist on a full check-up on the engines.
Yea... EP is my hometown. Those storms can be extremely violent. Ops 3 needs to get it together....
Why didn't Approach hand them off to tower ?
Seems like App landed them which is unusual and didn't even ask them to switch to tower or ground until they really needed them
The antennas may have been damaged by hail and they may not have been functional on a different frequency.
It sounds like they were barely able to communicate at all - there don't seem to be repsonses to most of the transmissions from approach. That may be partially due to the location this was being recorded from, but approach DOES say at one point that they are not in contact with the plane, and they have to hunt around to find what frequency it's on.
As a non pilot I have no idea what I am looking at with the black maps.
just a map with airplanes on it. the blue dash with the dots behind it is the airplane and where it was short time ago.
enlarging the dots and dashes would be nice though.
It's basically what the controller sees on his screen. The markings are not labeled to reduce clutter, learning what is what is part of the training. What is shown is configurable, usually you have airway intersections, reporting points (fixes), VORs, airports and some others I can't remember at the moment. Weather radar can be added as well.
It would be hard for you to see runways hard to explain, look for circle, in center are runways, you can see dashed line leading to some runways in center of circle. Example KBIF is Fort Bliss airfield very close. KELP Elpaso is the airport, There are 3 runways 6 total directions. 2 parallel east/west plus another NE/SW runway. Do you see it now?
It's basically an airport diagram of KELP, with the runway at KBIF (Biggs Army Airfield-1.5 miles north of KELP) shown. It looks like the TRACON scope (Terminal Radar Approach Contoller), which also shows the controller the extended runway centerlines. The restricted airspace north of El Paso (for White Sands Missile Range/Holloman Air Force Base) is also shown.
I'm not a pilot, haven't even played sims but I understood the map perfectly well.
Damn, they were right in the thick of it. It was made worse by the fact that the weather radar probably couldn't penetrate the outer walls of the storm so they could take the quickest path out, and it looks like the poor bastards were scrambling while inside the cell.
That is some pretty bad damage to the nose
Rumor is that they are still waiting for that tow...
And they were flying in that weather because...
Says everyone that complains when their flight gets delayed....
I want to hear the CVR during & after the assault - it must have sounded like they were under machine gun fire or flak (like the ww2 bombers over Germany), pilots must have thought they were about to disintegrate: extreme aggression!!!!!!! Passengers likely hit the airport bar HARD afterwards........
Thanks for putting up these communications.. I know it takes up a lot of time and it is much appreciated
It really does. Thanks.
Why did they fly into that insane storm cell??? That's a huge WTF.
JohnnyG sometimes when weather is very bad, especially hail, the radar is unable to detect it because of what's called attenuation. Look up radar attenuation or weather attenuation. They thought they turned for a clear spot which was actually hail covered in rain. Wet hail is nearly impossible to detect with many radar systems.
That whole area should have been avoided. Large storms like that should be given a 20 nautical mile berth flying around it. These guys were inside of it! No, this is not what should have happened. Dry hail has less reflectivity than rain so the pilots could have been avoiding the heavy reflectivity areas (in red) and flew towards green or yellow and got smashed with hail. Going back to my 20 nm berth point - this is exactly why you should give these storms a wide berth from ALL reflectivity (including green) and not just avoid the red areas.
Sccratlanta it looks like they tried. Not so successful. As I said, they shouldn’t have done that. They should have avoided the entire storm area. Going into that storm is like flipping a dice because you can’t get a full picture of the storm using airborne radar so you may be flying into a trap.
A very similar thing happened to a Delta A320 a couple years ago over the northern midwest. They were about the shoot through a gap in the storms, but the storm built up in front of them too fast for them to beat it. I suspect this incident was similar.
Therion018 what I’m pointing out is that this is a screw up. This is not normal. They shouldn’t have done it. Shooting between storms is not something you “try” to do to see how it goes. It’s something you avoid because you cause significant damage to the aircraft and potentially people will be injured.
This is not something to be viewed as “ah crap, the weather just got the best of them”. No. We know this can happen and pilots are educated to fly around storms by 20 nm for these exact reasons.
And here I was thinking I was the cool cat who managed to drive through a hailstorm on the interstate and it took out my windshield, cooling fan, radiator, and severely damaged the oil cover when the belts and pullies sent it flying up to the hood of the car. I got nothing compared to this plane. lol
I didn't know Brian Williams was piloting AA1897.
Kinda scary to see the photo of the front part of the aircraft broken, The pilots were heroes. they managed to land it safely
Aviation Fan787 That is pretty normal for a hail designed aircraft.. The composite is supposed to let the radar signal through it so it is actually pretty thin.
Just throw some Flex Tape on that
What's happening? Blown out pax windows, blown out ckpt windows and cracked windshields. How in the world did they land with a windshield like that?!?!
As said by the other guy, training, skill, and technology. And I heard from a Mentour Pilot or Captain Joe video that if they can't see anything from the windshield they might need to open the window and stick their head out.
Elang Lugito joe made that video...
DLB19901107 If they airport has a CAT III ILS approach the airplane can literally complete the full landing itself. Now just to be clear I can’t got and have my Cessna do that, but a million dollar airbus or Boeing with the right systems and autopilots can.
Crew will have these pictures to show their grandchildren! A little bragging rights for Grandpa!
relevant "stick your head out the window" video:
th-cam.com/video/dEMcD-RWA9A/w-d-xo.html
That plane is beat to hail. Hail of a job they did getting it down.
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Ops3 get it together!
I wonder what that last couple hundred feet was like before touchdown. Did the pilots stick their head out the window like Ace Ventura?
Ian Neubert It was a 321, they probably used Autoland.
Keyword.....”was”
Isnt it a319?
Hansen firdianto Sorry, meant 319.
IFR presumably
Hey VASAviation! Can you do a video on the crash in Daytona that involved an instructor and a student in a Piper Seminole? It was from my school and they suspect microbursts at this time. Thanks! Love your videos
Check the channel for that.
Man how many times they had to call for OPS 3 to respond.
Never expected my city to make it in your channel, good stuff!
What I'd like to know is why did nobody video this as it was happening! It had to be crazy in that plane and everyone has a camera....and yet there's no video of it. I really want to know what sounded like.
Great coverage... thanks for sharing. Blancolerio (Juan Brown) suggested your channel. Glad he did.
Fantastic ATC. Great weather graphics. Thank you for all your work.
All respect to ATC.
A nose is a most fragile part of an aircraft look what hail did to it and rest of the aircraft was fine now go to that 9/11 video where the aircraft's nose is coming all the way through the other side of the building and ask yourself some questions plzzz
Very enjoyable video. You even got the tug in there.
yes the atc is a pro for sure great communication good memory as well.
they hit a reindeer
Most of the radio traffic sounded like they were speaking from another dimension .
Hail? it looks like it hit an iceberg
Call sign Titanic 1912
OK, PILOTS, LISTEN UP! At exactly 1:19, look at the satellite picture. That circle you see immediately north and northeast of the airplane is a supercell. How do I know? Look at fifty miles in all directions. All you see is cirrus, pressed up to the tropopause, and spreading out. The massive thunderstorm has very discrete portions punching well through the trop, due to momentum. Almost all thunderstorms that penetrate the trop by 5k+ are severe...these are well above that. I would estimate a 60 thousand foot thunderstorm, with a 48 thousand foot trop. This aircraft flew into the dead worst part of the dead worst storm within 200 miles. I wrote a 210 page, FAA-approved weather training manual for flight dispatchers, and this one has me shaking my head....
I know you said some comms were edited but it seems some at the end should’ve been and prior to landing not have been? Hard choice I guess
9:29 "Thank you very much, American 1897."
0:33 He actually says "We're running some checklists here and we're going to need just a little bit of time before we're ready for the approach." Nothing about burning fuel.
Imagine the passengers getting off the plane and seeing that!!! That would’ve been terrifying!!!
They wouldn't have seen much after they depart at the terminal
@@jaypierce9629 Except they would El Paso has big windows facing the aircraft once you exit
That must have been one hail of a storm! 😳
Maybe this is naive, but since there was a severe storm and lives were at stake, could no one at the airport check Doppler Radar on TV, to see what's going on inside the storm? Doppler can detect hail. I don't think ATC radar detects hail.
ATC was not very polite to the ops vehicle. I work in ops, and it’s very important to get the aircraft and the ops vehicles on the same frequency so that can communicate.
What the hell were they doing flying into that kind of weather? They handled the emergency well, but it looks to me like they also caused that emergency. They flew right into that cell.
In El Paso, i saw the plane and it looked really banged up
Should not have flown into that storm system. Should've asked ATC for permission to divert around.
One thing I’ve noticed about most ground communication is that most of these ground units have their head up their ass. Try listening instead of doing whatever else you are doing. These units need better training.
Cant they avoid it by using weather radar?
You can't avoid something that's unavoidable.
Ka Jun Lo sometimes when weather is very bad, especially hail, the radar is unable to detect it because of what's called attenuation. Look up radar attenuation or weather attenuation. They thought they turned for a clear spot which was actually hail covered in rain. Wet hail is nearly impossible to detect with many radar systems.
@ Ka Jun Lo onboard weather radar is a tool that requires a lot of training to use properly. Most pilots do not get any training on weather radar other than how to turn it on.
If the flight crews suspects attenuation, can’t they just run the tilt down until they’re picking up ground clutter behind or beyond the storm, and if there’s areas in the sweep that don’t return ground clutter, then this would confirm attenuation and just don’t fly into those areas ?
Incredibly professional....job well done!!!!!