The problem is not in the title but in the mind of those male neophytes who consider female devotees inferior. And the solution to this problem doesn't surely lie in trying to compete with macho-oriented novices, but in training them to develop the necessary humility "to become perfect gentlemen and learn to give proper respect to others." (Sri Isopanisad 10)
And perhaps this is exactly why Srila Prabhupada, on the day that he accepted the mantle “Srila Prabhupada” instructed ALL his disciples to address one another as “prabhu.” We were young, and certainly didnt even know the meaning of the word prabhu. But he told us, boys and girls, we should always address one another as prabhu, because we were all the prabhus who have taken shelter of the Prabhupada. It was never a gender thing. I was a designation as his disciple, his many prabhus. But some immature or uninformed men have taken it upon themselves to change SO MANY of Prabhupada’s original instructions, his books, his teachings. Why? Maybe to make themselves look bigger or more important than Prabhupada, like they know more than him. It is a tragic time. But we have faith that the coming generations will see through this maze of misinformation and cling to Prabhupada’s instructions just as his early disciples did. And as most people know, Prabhupada’s early disciples ALL address one another as prabhu. It’s only the ones that came later on, and are thus misinformed, who spread this kind of misinformation.
DOES ANYONE WANT TO KNOW HOW SRILA PRABHUPADA ADDRESSED HIS DISCIPLES-ALL OF THEM?? CAN we at least show some respect for what Srila Prabhupada instituted, even if we are not capable of understanding all the “whys” that he may have had. Clearly he called us all prabhu, and even when he referred to us through others he did so. Could it be he was trying to teach us something that we havent yet grasped???? Perhaps someone could show Sivarama Swami these few examples of letters written by Srila Prabhupada in order to correct his mistaken belief that Srila Prabhupada 'never' used the term 'prabhu' to address his spiritual daughters. But he must know this by now? I wonder what his response would be? My Dear Ranadhira, Please accept my blessings. . . Yes, I have all blessings for the happy marriage of Haladhara Prabhu and Joan Prabhu, so you may immediately do the needful in this regards. (16 February, 1971) My Dear Rsabhadeva, Please accept my blessings. . . So long as there is Guru-Gauranga worship, Yamuna Prabhu may act as pujari . . . (March 25, 1971) Anna Prabhu may be initiated also and she has my blessings for being married to Puranda at the earliest convenience. (letter to Mukunda April 13, 1971) So the stock of japa beads I brought with me has been depleted. Malati Prabhu was supposed to have brought some beads with her from India, and so I would like that those beads be sent immediately to N.Y. center by air. (letter to Tribhuvanatha July 4, 1971) My Dear Kirtanananda Maharaja, Vrindaban Candra, and Silavati, Please accept my blessings. I beg to acknowledge receipt of your letters just now received by me here in Calcutta and describing your plans for travelling Sankirtana party, and it is very much encouraging news for me. Silavati Prabhu said that this was her long cherished dream. It has been mine also. . . (November 6, 1971) In Los Angeles I personally advised them in all the different aspects of deity worship, so you may consult, especially with Silavati Prabhu (now in Dallas) and do the needful. . . (letter to Sri Govinda, January 31, 1973) My dear Gangamayi, Please accept my blessings. . . I am glad to hear that you are determined to stay and live in the temple now and that you are becoming very much attached to the Deity worship and very serious about serving the Deity along with Malati Prabhu. . . (May 9, 1974) My Dear Sacimata Prabhu, Please accept my blessings. I am in receipt of your letter dated 3rd October 1976 and I have noted the contents carefully. . . Just a few recorded examples....out of soooo many! 🙏🙃
That means some matajis are interested in some kind of aggrandizement only. They want to be Masters. They don't want to follow Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu as He says "na dhanam na janam", "...bhakti ahaituki tvayi".
Why is there so much controversy about this subject? There is a class by HH Hridayanada Dāsa Goswami entitled “Calling women Mother is not Vedic culture”. In this class he says that it this is just a unsuccessful resource to protect or enthuse men’s celibacy by threatening them with incest. And it hasn’t been effective. There are so many cases where calling a woman mother was not an obstacle for him to court her. And actually the overuse of this word, and that it is used so lightly, makes it looks it’s meaning and power.
So does Shivaram Swami think that something Srila Prabhupada has specifically told us to do is “nonsense?” Because the fact is that Srila Prabhupada gave us ALL the instruction to call one another as “prabhu.” Every one of us, male and female disciples. Yes, this is what he taught us to do. It was in May of 1968 that he accepted the title Srila Prabhupada. At that very same time, he told all of us early disciples to address one another as “prabhu” because we were the “prabhus” who have taken shelter of the “Prabhupada.” It meant that we had taken shelter of him, the “Prabhupada.” It was to focus our new identity as disciples of him, the Prabhupada. It was our gift, our new identity as the prabhus who. have taken shelter of him, the Prabhupada. Our treasure. It was NEVER a gender based form of address. It was never a “male-female” issue either. (And feminism didnt even exist at that time so far I know. ) And at that same time, he told ALL of us to address one another as “prabhu” , it was never a gender thing. It was about how we were related to Srila Prabhupada. As the “prabhus who have taken shelter of the Prabhupada.” Now some leaders have turned it into a “gender or feminism” thing. It was never such a thing. It was how we were told to address one another. My husband called me Govinda dasi prabhu, I called him Goursundar prabhu. In front of Srila Prabhupada! That was how all the early disciples addressed one another. (Most still do.) But now, these leaders who are intent upon changing everything Srila Prabhupada taught, they are changing this and insisting that female disciples should be called mataji. In one sense, this is denying the female disciples the same shelter of Srila Prabhupada. It is denying them the right of that inheritance. Or trying to. And that is why it is so irksome. And then they paint it as some “feminism” thing, when all of us know this is not at all true. Prabhupada NEVER called us mataji. He told us specifically to address one another as prabhu, both male and female. It simply was not relevant to gender. It has a much deeper meaning- it means one who has taken shelter of Srila Prabhupada!! Someone should take time to look at the early letters from 1968, 69, and they will discover this is true. It is unfortunate that these young men who are certainly wonderful preachers and doing great service in spreading the Holy Names all over the world, insist on changing so many things that Srila Prabhupada has given us. As if they know better. The underbelly of all these changes is the failure to actually understand that Srila Prabhupada has specifically come from the spiritual world to teach us. He is not an ordinary man like one of us. To disrespect whatever he has given us, and to change it, whether it is his books, or his instructions, is actually saying, “I know better than him.” This, Srila Prabhupada often said, is the first symptom of falldown-to think you know better than your Acharya, Srila Prabhupada.
Unfortunately some woman in Iskcon misrepresent--HDG Srila Prabhupads words and Intentions,,,,,Vasinava. Tradition--Vedic Culture,,,,,Was EXACTLY -What Srila Prabhupada Wanted to Establish in His ISKCON-->-Not a new type of K C Feminism in Iskcon.
So many things don't belong to Prabhupada stile, like sanniasi take a female devotee as secretary, sanniasi Built hospitals or sanniasi take mayavadi association, all of this things are going on in side the iskcon naw adays. Even reediction of Prabhupada 's books are going on, so,call a female devotee as prabhu it is too small in comparison when i can see many other things wrong going on. Prabhu don't means male, prabhu means autority, who has great knowleg,so when a woman becam krsna devotee she show that she knows about krsna conciousness and her real identitie so she becam an autority about spiritual path and prabhu.
When I first went to Denmark in 1996, I thought that it was hilarious that there were "the Matajis and the Prabhus!" Being from the US, where the Hare Krishna Movement began, I'd never heard of such a thing before! But since Shivarama Swami joined ISKCON in Europe, he thinks that addressing women as "Prabhu" is something new! No. Having "the Matajis and the Prabhus" is actually the new concoction, apparently unique to Europe!
Prahupada says " women are like children" - that does not depreciate them, they are superior in terms of worldly function, childbirth etc.. and certainly equal in spiritual soul value ..but not in terms of spiritual guru function /position. Krishna always incarnates in the male form for example.
+LondonDada yes Vedic culture never denigrates women, western culture does by making them feel free and equal so they end up getting exploited and spoilt Like Urmila Dasi here is spoiling the chastity of her own grand daughter by making her dance for so many men all in the name of bhakti m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10211403491508250&id=1390892357
Hare Krsna, I liked how Sivaram Swami opposed the feminists in this clip. But I don't know much about him personally. You say that he is a half feminist of sorts. Could you please elaborate on this? He seemed more genuine than some other gurus like Radhanath Swami
vediciskcon.wordpress.com/2016/12/17/sivaram-swamis-feminism-exposed/ read this also facebook.com/hanuman.das.3766/posts/10210674001800510 HALF FEM because he is one of the few ppl who as opposed Female Diksha guru and 'calling women as prabhu' that is all he is not fully yavanamleccha
I have never heard a devotee call a woman Prabhu.. it is mataji, or didi. Even Prabhu means Krishna... bhai is better... Krishna is the only Prabhu. Chaitanya is Mahaprabhu. Is that the next step...
Thank You Maharaj...For Speaking the TRUTH as Prabhupads Instructions,,,,PAMHO-AGTSP- Pass it along,,,,,,,,Your servant, Jaya Madhava das(acbsp) Moscow Russia
I know that Maharaja was presented with the information from his godsisters, Srila Pabhupada’s disciples, that actually this is what Prabhupada did and instructed, and he accepter it and apologised. Maharaja is alright and whoever posted this clip with the above inflamatory titels should maybe educate themselves a little better
It's not a matter of argument. We are giving you facts. He has indeed said all those things. Forgot to add: attended gay marriage. Has atleast two confirmed disciples who are lesbians who he knows what they are and he still gave them initiation and they live together. There is no animosity here in these facts.
Did you know that the Mahabharata was a mostly oral tradition and has degraded along with the kali yuga? People in previous ages could pass it down intact but it has been distorted by the onset of this current age please listen to Hridayananda Maharajas Mahabharata lecture series for clarification he explains the actual philosophy and backs it up with Shastra! perhaps you could start there... ys
Which shahstra or which of the acharyas of the four schools of vaishnavism have said that Mahabharata is distorted? Knowledge is distorted like in some part of ayurveda or dhanurveda may be or Bhavishya Purana perhaps Skanda Purana. But Mahabharata has been deemed fully distorted by which acharyas? And to ask specifically in the case of Draupadi vastra haran kanda, which acharya or shahstra sloka told him that it's a distorted? Which Prabhupada letter or conversation if not purport says Mahabharata is distorted?
You can take one or two details and try to make an argument from them Prabhus but Hridayananda Maharaja is trying his best within Srila Prabhupadas framework of iskcon the principles and the philosophy to make Krishna consciousness widely available to the largest number of conditioned souls. please understand the philosophy at a deeper level before you get caught up in the details and start blaspheming Prabhupadas sincere disciples. fanaticism is not going to help anyone it never has and it certainly wont help you in your spiritual life either. Ys
by the way our position is if three things are not altered the institution the philosophy and the principles then a Paramahamsa can adjust all minor details according to time place and circumstance to propagate the sankirtan movement which is the point after all. Lord Chaitanya did this Srila Bhaktivinoda did this Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati did this and Srila Prabhupada did this... Have you read Hridayananda Maharajas book on the Gita? Have you watched his Krishna west Israel lecture series? Please look past the externals and try and understand the situation from a deeper perspective.the strict conservative external approach is not working and hasnt in a big way for a long time.its not the sixties/seventies anymore and we need to fullfill Srila Prabhupadas mission by whatever will work inside the actual internal structure he gave us and show compassion to those who may be put off by our Cultural Chauvanism! I very much respect your dedication to your Guru and i am sure that serves you well but please try to understand and stop working against Prabhupadas real mission in whatever external temporary form it comes in and please let Hg Hridayananda maharaja try and get the job done. This is my last attempt at reason please enquire for yourself from the appropriate listed sources and see what Krishna arranges for you... ys
"External temporary" "get the job done" that's OK for wearing shorts what about rejecting the opinions of the acharyas and the Mahabharata on Draupadi vastra haran kanda? Every child in India has heard of it. This is not paramhamsa behavior this is atheism.
I can see you love the details Prabhu try for the bigger picture.i have not seen Hridayananda Maharaja chant but I have seen one of my god brothers who is a Nitya Sidha stop chanting externally when he associates with Krishna through the holy name (not to be imitated or perhaps even understood by lesser Devotees like us) many devotees made mistakes in regards to title in the 80s 90s and the Gbc rectified this... my Spiritual Master (who shall remain nameless as I don't want him being offended by some misunderstanding black and white world view fanatical Devotee on the internet) says that Spiritual advancement is an inside Job and offending senior Devotees who are sincerely trying to serve Prabhupadas mission will only hamper our own spiritual life. Please watch with an open mind the resources I have previously listed and try to lift yourself (by Guru and Krishnas mercy) out of your own spiritual rut. Stop offending Devotees who are more advanced out of envy and attachment to external temporary details as the only one who will suffer is you. Maya doesn't need help from Devotees in hampering the preaching mission over the net. if you need a second opinion I humbly invite you to show these conversations between us for clarification by your Spiritual master not your own mind.i have to go on Book dist now on this most Auspicious appearance day of our Lord Gauranga! I sincerely hope this finds you well and willing to listen,as they say you can lead a man to reason but you cant make him think(more clearly) Hare Krishna your aspiring servant bk steve
"I have seen a God brother stop chant externally" this is the justification for hridya Maharaja's not chanting? We are being asked to be more reasonable when questioning hridayananda Maharaja's rejection of Draupadi vastra haran kanda? How will your guru or any sane person be disturbed if we ask about Draupadi vastra haran kanda's faults that make it so unacceptable? Do you understand the logic of your statements? A person who is on the level of mental chanting has that much of purity to understand the scriptures in regards to Mahabharata, etc. Hridayananda Maharaja thinks women should be addressed as Prabhu, female diksha gurus should be allowed, Draupadi vastra haran never took place(refer to his conversations in Germany). H-Maharaj is the last person on earth who we should assume to be so divine. Why? Sadbe pare ca nishnatam is a qualification of a guru. Thus, who ever your master is reject him if he agrees with HM. I'm guessing Bir Krishna or Saci swami, right?
Thank you again Prabhu.the material world is full of faults isn't it? I have just seen some more of mine.Fortunately we are not the controllers and Lord Krishna is.Prabhupada had disagreements with his God brothers but he turned out to be the one who did the most.I am not saying anyone is equal to Prabhupada but am trying to say shall we admit we cant see it all ourselves and see what happens? all glories to all Prabhupadas disciples and there sincere efforts dispite the differences and disagreements your aspiring servant bk steve... thank you for being mine... revealed in reflection dear Prabhu...
This is not about his private habits. He has gone against the scriptures and against the Acharyas on the Draupadi vastra haran matter. This itself makes him a fallen person caring not for the fact that he does not chant hare Krishna Mahamantra. Ping pong games, dislike for dhotis, etc are relatively trivial matters. Understand our position- The objections we raise are not against Hridayananda Maharaj's private or sexual or sensual deviations but against his malinterpretations and philosophical deviations. About his private life we have hardly anything to say. In 1987, when Kirtanananda Swami was excommunicated from ISKCON, a majority of his disciples followed him. Yet no one at the time accused him of (or believed) that he was breaking the four regulative principles or not chanting his 16 rounds. Indeed, there is no mention of any of this in the 1987 resolution that expelled him from ISKCON:gbc.iskcon.org/2012/02/03/1987/ So, what we have here in ISKCON is a precedent for rejecting someone as a spiritual master who might otherwise follow all the regulative principles but as per the GBC resolution has nevertheless “systematically obscured and minimized His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Srila Prabhupada’s pre-eminent position as the Founder-Acarya of ISKCON.” Yet we are supposed to think that if such a person follows the four regulative principles and chants sixteen rounds, he is nonetheless a bona fide spiritual master? To quote Hridayananda Maharaja himself, “What planet have you been on? Where have you been? Like are you coming from some other sector of the galaxy?”
+Tapasya Tyaga Hridayananda maharaj has not condoned gay sex or any form of illicit sex, please try and understand the principles don't get caught up on the details which can be adjusted according to time place and circumstance ys
Proof that Śrīla Prabhupāda’s disciples knew, in 1975, what his instructions were on addressing women as “Prabhu”: “Beth Prabhu…Eileen Prabhu…Judy Prabhu…Merylee Prabhu…Julie Prabhu…Faith Prabhu…Alexis Prabhu…Linda Prabhu” >>> Ref. VedaBase => New York (1975 Vyāsa Pūjā Homage)
Thank you Prabhu I see a lot by Krishnas mercy in your coments,please excuse my criticism and may Lord Gauranga deliver us both by whatever ashram that is needed from this material world including programs like Krishna West! Hridayananda Maharaj is a Paramahamsa and is using whatever material means needed to try and deliver the western countries from impersonalism and voidism.i hope we can all realise the higher goal he is trying to achieve for Srila Prabhupada!!! lets help him and the more conservative Sanyasis both alike and see what works In this highest ultimate goal of Chaitanya Mahaprabhu and His Divine Grace Srila Prabhupada!!! ys
Which paramhamsa has ever played table tennis games in public with other men's wives? Which paramhamsa has denied Draupadi vastra haran kand? Which paramhamsa has called Badri Narayan Maharaja Poison? Which paramhamsa has called for giving some recognition to gay monogamous relationships? Which paramhamsa hamsa had lesbian disciples? Which paramhamsa has ever said, "if Prabhupada was here I would have convinced him of my views" Bhaktivinoda encouraged to chant loudly and Prabhupada never himself chanted in the mind (his 16 rounds) so who is he following?
someone will be leaving the Brahmacari ashram and getting married,thats a lot of focus on a womans position in iskcon for a "Monk" no offense Prabhu all glories to your devotional service Ys
Thanks for your concerns. But u underestimate Krishna mercy. If Krishna can protect Sacinandana Maharaj while sitting in Bhanu Nandini Mataji's lap I believe that He can protect poor me while I make a few vids which will end up saving your wife from side long glances of Hridayananda Maharaja's table tennis bat.
liberal and conservative differences aside. I hope that our movement is successful and if its Krishna west that is successful then all glories...as far as I understand Hridayananda Maharaja is not doing anything outside the philosophy principles and institution Srila Prabhupada gave us...changeable details are another thing so lets not confuse them...If the conservative members of iskcon are successful in making Krishna consciousness grow then all glories to them but it isn't happening and hasn't for a long time so what to do? we as a movement have to try and adjust the details not the philosophy principles and institution to make KC relevant and to help it grow again...That is what Prabhupada would want and adjusting details was something he often did...isn't doing so to save the conditioned souls the whole point? as I have said previously lets see what works...as Prabhupada said you judge a tree by its fruits :-) ys
I don't know Prabhu I'm no expert :-) I'm just trying to point you in another direction.all I can see is that by my admittedly limited understanding Hridayananda Maharaj is way ahead in his understanding of the Shastra and Philosophy so why not research it yourself rather than just blaspheming him on the net.thats the point I want to make but free will is absolute! thank Govinda ;-) ys
+Tapasya Tyaga Srila Prabhupada taught us Krishna conscious philosophy please try and learn it so you don't continue to mistake changeable details for actual Philosophical Principles
I never said you were a fool :-) read the suggested Purport Prabhu,Seventh canto where Narada Muni is instructing Dhruva Maharaja you may find it enlightening! Or not free will is absolute and maya... Kirtanananda changed the philosophy the principals and the institution.Hridayananda Maharaja has done none of those things and is still operating within the framework of those three things,may I humbly suggest you educate yourself further or by your own action you may end up being the fool... Ys
"We are taught to address others as Prabhu. Prabhu means master; and the leader of the masters is called Prabhupada." (Srila Prabhupada letter, 10th May, 1970)
Read Mahabharata and folio search Draupadi u wil find it besides No acharya has denied this from the Mahabharata, only hridayananda maharja is the exceptional person. And he called himself acharya deva. Backup 2+2 = 4 with actual philosophy, it's clear if you study the basis of mathematics so is all the above if you study Prabhupada's books etc with intelligence.
I should have asked you this first before replying to anything you said, "do you believe hridayananda maharja chants in the mind or have you seen him chant in the mind" If the answer is yes then a lot of time as been wasted I'm indulging you as with Cyril Wohrer.
Facts as YOU put it can be misinterpreted and used as weapons if the actual Philosophy behind them isn't properly understood. I would very much like to see Hridayananda Maharaj debate these "facts" with you for clarification and (if the humble position is taken) rectification. Should a sincere soul who has the Karma to be Gay and in a relationship be denied the right to go back to godhead if they follow the four regs and other principles of Bhakti? I know that gay marriage is a controversial point but we need to look beyond the externals and at the real point which is to give any sincere soul the right to go back to godhead no matter what there temporary external karmic situation maybe,this is true compassion.I have not heard one sound Philosophical argument from you Prabhu and I have heard many from Hridayananda maharaja that defute your so called "facts" It is my understanding that you are missing the point of what the Sankirtan movement is all about and are hiding your own spiritual problems behind a misinformed attack on anything outside your own limited understanding.please note I say this strongly but with compassion for your current situation and do not say these things for any reason other than your personal spiritual benefit and the benefit of others who maybe mislead by your baseless attacks on Hridayananda Maharaja and his sincere efforts to preach Prabhupadas mission according to time place and circumstance...
Draupadi vastra haran kanda happened because Mahabharata says so. Mahabharata is not faulty nor currupt nor missing in slokas etc. Tell him to refute the above. Let's start there. A person declaring the scriptures (esp. something like the Mahabharata which has the gita init as opposed to say Skanda Purana (which has no commentary by the achrayas)) to be faulty is an atheist. Accn. to Manu he must be excommunicated and marked as an atheist. What is 'time place circumstance' about rejecting Mahabharata's stories?
+Tapasya Tyaga ,No one Hridayananda Maharaj or myself is advocating illicit sex in any form.I have reasonably asked you to read the relevant purports in Prabhupadas books and the fact you haven't comented on them tends to show you have made your mind up and are not open to reasonable debate...this indicates fanaticism... you have missed the point and are using your misinterpretation to form a baseless argument. Krishna west is succeeding in the west and many devotees are coming along because the details are being changed not the principles the philosophy or the institution the three things that Prabhupada taught us...as for going away No! I am loyal to iskcon which is Prabhupadas institution only the Ritviks have gone away from Prabhupada... Ys
Steve Purdy A gay person is most welcome to spiritual enlightment but as far as vedic marriage is concerned, marriage is meant for the sole purpose of making Krishna conscious children. Therefore there is no point in gays getting married, they would do so only for sense gratification...they can't make no babies u know that right??...Therefore your maharaj or so called maharaj is wrong for marrying gay ppl, best admit it and free yourself from the illusion. Maya is strong....Find another Guru! Sorry..
![PURPEECH - นี่ฉันเองคนที่... (It's me) [Official MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/NuhHd0hOOg8/mqdefault.jpg)
Prabhupada on some occasions would say the name of his female disciple folliwed by the word Prabhu
The problem is not in the title but in the mind of those male neophytes who consider female devotees inferior. And the solution to this problem doesn't surely lie in trying to compete with macho-oriented novices, but in training them to develop the necessary humility "to become perfect gentlemen and learn to give proper respect to others." (Sri Isopanisad 10)
And perhaps this is exactly why Srila Prabhupada, on the day that he accepted the mantle “Srila Prabhupada” instructed ALL his disciples to address one another as “prabhu.” We were young, and certainly didnt even know the meaning of the word prabhu. But he told us, boys and girls, we should always address one another as prabhu, because we were all the prabhus who have taken shelter of the Prabhupada. It was never a gender thing. I was a designation as his disciple, his many prabhus.
But some immature or uninformed men have taken it upon themselves to change SO MANY of Prabhupada’s original instructions, his books, his teachings. Why? Maybe to make themselves look bigger or more important than Prabhupada, like they know more than him. It is a tragic time. But we have faith that the coming generations will see through this maze of misinformation and cling to Prabhupada’s instructions just as his early disciples did. And as most people know, Prabhupada’s early disciples ALL address one another as prabhu. It’s only the ones that came later on, and are thus misinformed, who spread this kind of misinformation.
DOES ANYONE WANT TO KNOW HOW SRILA PRABHUPADA ADDRESSED HIS DISCIPLES-ALL OF THEM??
CAN we at least show some respect for what Srila Prabhupada instituted, even if we are not capable of understanding all the “whys” that he may have had.
Clearly he called us all prabhu, and even when he referred to us through others he did so. Could it be he was trying to teach us something that we havent yet grasped????
Perhaps someone could show Sivarama Swami these few examples of letters written by Srila Prabhupada in order to correct his mistaken belief that Srila Prabhupada 'never' used the term 'prabhu' to address his spiritual daughters. But he must know this by now?
I wonder what his response would be?
My Dear Ranadhira,
Please accept my blessings. . . Yes, I have all blessings for the happy marriage of Haladhara Prabhu and Joan Prabhu, so you may immediately do the needful in this regards. (16 February, 1971)
My Dear Rsabhadeva,
Please accept my blessings. . . So long as there is Guru-Gauranga worship, Yamuna Prabhu may act as pujari . . . (March 25, 1971)
Anna Prabhu may be initiated also and she has my blessings for being married to Puranda at the earliest convenience. (letter to Mukunda April 13, 1971)
So the stock of japa beads I brought with me has been depleted. Malati Prabhu was supposed to have brought some beads with her from India, and so I would like that those beads be sent immediately to N.Y. center by air. (letter to Tribhuvanatha July 4, 1971)
My Dear Kirtanananda Maharaja, Vrindaban Candra, and Silavati, Please accept my blessings. I beg to acknowledge receipt of your letters just now received by me here in Calcutta and describing your plans for travelling Sankirtana party, and it is very much encouraging news for me. Silavati Prabhu said that this was her long cherished dream. It has been mine also. . . (November 6, 1971)
In Los Angeles I personally advised them in all the different aspects of deity worship, so you may consult, especially with Silavati Prabhu (now in Dallas) and do the needful. . . (letter to Sri Govinda, January 31, 1973)
My dear Gangamayi,
Please accept my blessings. . . I am glad to hear that you are determined to stay and live in the temple now and that you are becoming very much attached to the Deity worship and very serious about serving the Deity along with Malati Prabhu. . . (May 9, 1974)
My Dear Sacimata Prabhu,
Please accept my blessings. I am in receipt of your letter dated 3rd October 1976 and I have noted the contents carefully. . .
Just a few recorded examples....out of soooo many!
🙏🙃
That means some matajis are interested in some kind of aggrandizement only.
They want to be Masters.
They don't want to follow Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu as He says "na dhanam na janam", "...bhakti ahaituki tvayi".
Thank you Maharaja for your clear logic and examples.
Why is there so much controversy about this subject? There is a class by HH Hridayanada Dāsa Goswami entitled “Calling women Mother is not Vedic culture”. In this class he says that it this is just a unsuccessful resource to protect or enthuse men’s celibacy by threatening them with incest. And it hasn’t been effective. There are so many cases where calling a woman mother was not an obstacle for him to court her. And actually the overuse of this word, and that it is used so lightly, makes it looks it’s meaning and power.
So does Shivaram Swami think that something Srila Prabhupada has specifically told us to do is “nonsense?”
Because the fact is that Srila Prabhupada gave us ALL the instruction to call one another as “prabhu.” Every one of us, male and female disciples.
Yes, this is what he taught us to do. It was in May of 1968 that he accepted the title Srila Prabhupada. At that very same time, he told all of us early disciples to address one another as “prabhu” because we were the “prabhus” who have taken shelter of the “Prabhupada.” It meant that we had taken shelter of him, the “Prabhupada.” It was to focus our new identity as disciples of him, the Prabhupada. It was our gift, our new identity as the prabhus who. have taken shelter of him, the Prabhupada. Our treasure.
It was NEVER a gender based form of address. It was never a “male-female” issue either. (And feminism didnt even exist at that time so far I know. )
And at that same time, he told ALL of us to address one another as “prabhu” , it was never a gender thing. It was about how we were related to Srila Prabhupada.
As the “prabhus who have taken shelter of the Prabhupada.”
Now some leaders have turned it into a “gender or feminism” thing. It was never such a thing. It was how we were told to address one another.
My husband called me Govinda dasi prabhu, I called him Goursundar prabhu. In front of Srila Prabhupada! That was how all the early disciples addressed one another. (Most still do.)
But now, these leaders who are intent upon changing everything Srila Prabhupada taught, they are changing this and insisting that female disciples should be called mataji. In one sense, this is denying the female disciples the same shelter of Srila Prabhupada. It is denying them the right of that inheritance. Or trying to. And that is why it is so irksome. And then they paint it as some “feminism” thing, when all of us know this is not at all true.
Prabhupada NEVER called us mataji. He told us specifically to address one another as prabhu, both male and female. It simply was not relevant to gender. It has a much deeper meaning- it means one who has taken shelter of Srila Prabhupada!!
Someone should take time to look at the early letters from 1968, 69, and they will discover this is true. It is unfortunate that these young men who are certainly wonderful preachers and doing great service in spreading the Holy Names all over the world, insist on changing so many things that Srila Prabhupada has given us. As if they know better.
The underbelly of all these changes is the failure to actually understand that Srila Prabhupada has specifically come from the spiritual world to teach us. He is not an ordinary man like one of us. To disrespect whatever he has given us, and to change it, whether it is his books, or his instructions, is actually saying, “I know better than him.” This, Srila Prabhupada often said, is the first symptom of falldown-to think you know better than your Acharya, Srila Prabhupada.
PRABHUPĀDA: Oh, yes. She can chant. Sarasvatī PRABHU, chant little.
>>> Ref. VedaBase => Room Conversation with Kenneth Keating - October 14, 1972, Delhi
Unfortunately some woman in Iskcon misrepresent--HDG Srila Prabhupads words and Intentions,,,,,Vasinava. Tradition--Vedic Culture,,,,,Was EXACTLY -What Srila Prabhupada Wanted to Establish in His ISKCON-->-Not a new type of K C Feminism in Iskcon.
So many things don't belong to Prabhupada stile, like sanniasi take a female devotee as secretary, sanniasi Built hospitals or sanniasi take mayavadi association, all of this things are going on in side the iskcon naw adays. Even reediction of Prabhupada 's books are going on, so,call a female devotee as prabhu it is too small in comparison when i can see many other things wrong going on.
Prabhu don't means male, prabhu means autority, who has great knowleg,so when a woman becam krsna devotee she show that she knows about krsna conciousness and her real identitie so she becam an autority about spiritual path and prabhu.
When I first went to Denmark in 1996, I thought that it was hilarious that there were "the Matajis and the Prabhus!" Being from the US, where the Hare Krishna Movement began, I'd never heard of such a thing before! But since Shivarama Swami joined ISKCON in Europe, he thinks that addressing women as "Prabhu" is something new! No. Having "the Matajis and the Prabhus" is actually the new concoction, apparently unique to Europe!
Prahupada says " women are like children" - that does not depreciate them, they are superior in terms of worldly function, childbirth etc.. and certainly equal in spiritual soul value ..but not in terms of spiritual guru function /position. Krishna always incarnates in the male form for example.
+LondonDada yes Vedic culture never denigrates women, western culture does by making them feel free and equal so they end up getting exploited and spoilt
Like Urmila Dasi here is spoiling the chastity of her own grand daughter by making her dance for so many men all in the name of bhakti
m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10211403491508250&id=1390892357
Thank you for further clarifying the subject.
u understand things , u are an intelligent man.
are u one FAcebook?
LondonDada u understand things , u are an intelligent man.
are u one FAcebook?
Hare Krsna, I liked how Sivaram Swami opposed the feminists in this clip. But I don't know much about him personally. You say that he is a half feminist of sorts. Could you please elaborate on this? He seemed more genuine than some other gurus like Radhanath Swami
vediciskcon.wordpress.com/2016/12/17/sivaram-swamis-feminism-exposed/
read this also
facebook.com/hanuman.das.3766/posts/10210674001800510
HALF FEM because he is one of the few ppl who as opposed Female Diksha guru and 'calling women as prabhu' that is all
he is not fully yavanamleccha
In this talk, no Krishna consciousness, no knowledge of the soul, of its constitutional position.
@@haladharadasofficiel2480haladhar this u from alachua?
I have never heard a devotee call a woman Prabhu.. it is mataji, or didi. Even Prabhu means Krishna... bhai is better... Krishna is the only Prabhu. Chaitanya is Mahaprabhu. Is that the next step...
In a lecture Srila Prabhupada said that we address woman as mother, not Didi-He said some groups uses didi-sister buy this is not correct.
Just to be clear i dont mean Sivaram Maharaj :-) ys
Thank You Maharaj...For Speaking the TRUTH as Prabhupads Instructions,,,,PAMHO-AGTSP- Pass it along,,,,,,,,Your servant,
Jaya Madhava das(acbsp) Moscow Russia
I know that Maharaja was presented with the information from his godsisters, Srila Pabhupada’s disciples, that actually this is what Prabhupada did and instructed, and he accepter it and apologised. Maharaja is alright and whoever posted this clip with the above inflamatory titels should maybe educate themselves a little better
goodbye Prabhu all the best I have tried mine and need to get on with my service ys
It's not a matter of argument. We are giving you facts. He has indeed said all those things.
Forgot to add: attended gay marriage.
Has atleast two confirmed disciples who are lesbians who he knows what they are and he still gave them initiation and they live together.
There is no animosity here in these facts.
Jog on Steve!
Did you know that the Mahabharata was a mostly oral tradition and has degraded along with the kali yuga? People in previous ages could pass it down intact but it has been distorted by the onset of this current age please listen to Hridayananda Maharajas Mahabharata lecture series for clarification he explains the actual philosophy and backs it up with Shastra! perhaps you could start there... ys
Which shahstra or which of the acharyas of the four schools of vaishnavism have said that Mahabharata is distorted?
Knowledge is distorted like in some part of ayurveda or dhanurveda may be or Bhavishya Purana perhaps Skanda Purana.
But Mahabharata has been deemed fully distorted by which acharyas?
And to ask specifically in the case of Draupadi vastra haran kanda, which acharya or shahstra sloka told him that it's a distorted?
Which Prabhupada letter or conversation if not purport says Mahabharata is distorted?
You can take one or two details and try to make an argument from them Prabhus but Hridayananda Maharaja is trying his best within Srila Prabhupadas framework of iskcon the principles and the philosophy to make Krishna consciousness widely available to the largest number of conditioned souls. please understand the philosophy at a deeper level before you get caught up in the details and start blaspheming Prabhupadas sincere disciples. fanaticism is not going to help anyone it never has and it certainly wont help you in your spiritual life either. Ys
by the way our position is if three things are not altered the institution the philosophy and the principles then a Paramahamsa can adjust all minor details according to time place and circumstance to propagate the sankirtan movement which is the point after all. Lord Chaitanya did this Srila Bhaktivinoda did this Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati did this and Srila Prabhupada did this... Have you read Hridayananda Maharajas book on the Gita? Have you watched his Krishna west Israel lecture series? Please look past the externals and try and understand the situation from a deeper perspective.the strict conservative external approach is not working and hasnt in a big way for a long time.its not the sixties/seventies anymore and we need to fullfill Srila Prabhupadas mission by whatever will work inside the actual internal structure he gave us and show compassion to those who may be put off by our Cultural Chauvanism! I very much respect your dedication to your Guru and i am sure that serves you well but please try to understand and stop working against Prabhupadas real mission in whatever external temporary form it comes in and please let Hg Hridayananda maharaja try and get the job done. This is my last attempt at reason please enquire for yourself from the appropriate listed sources and see what Krishna arranges for you... ys
"External temporary" "get the job done" that's OK for wearing shorts what about rejecting the opinions of the acharyas and the Mahabharata on Draupadi vastra haran kanda? Every child in India has heard of it. This is not paramhamsa behavior this is atheism.
I can see you love the details Prabhu try for the bigger picture.i have not seen Hridayananda Maharaja chant but I have seen one of my god brothers who is a Nitya Sidha stop chanting externally when he associates with Krishna through the holy name (not to be imitated or perhaps even understood by lesser Devotees like us) many devotees made mistakes in regards to title in the 80s 90s and the Gbc rectified this... my Spiritual Master (who shall remain nameless as I don't want him being offended by some misunderstanding black and white world view fanatical Devotee on the internet) says that Spiritual advancement is an inside Job and offending senior Devotees who are sincerely trying to serve Prabhupadas mission will only hamper our own spiritual life. Please watch with an open mind the resources I have previously listed and try to lift yourself (by Guru and Krishnas mercy) out of your own spiritual rut. Stop offending Devotees who are more advanced out of envy and attachment to external temporary details as the only one who will suffer is you. Maya doesn't need help from Devotees in hampering the preaching mission over the net. if you need a second opinion I humbly invite you to show these conversations between us for clarification by your Spiritual master not your own mind.i have to go on Book dist now on this most Auspicious appearance day of our Lord Gauranga! I sincerely hope this finds you well and willing to listen,as they say you can lead a man to reason but you cant make him think(more clearly) Hare Krishna your aspiring servant bk steve
"I have seen a God brother stop chant externally" this is the justification for hridya Maharaja's not chanting?
We are being asked to be more reasonable when questioning hridayananda Maharaja's rejection of Draupadi vastra haran kanda?
How will your guru or any sane person be disturbed if we ask about Draupadi vastra haran kanda's faults that make it so unacceptable?
Do you understand the logic of your statements?
A person who is on the level of mental chanting has that much of purity to understand the scriptures in regards to Mahabharata, etc.
Hridayananda Maharaja thinks women should be addressed as Prabhu, female diksha gurus should be allowed, Draupadi vastra haran never took place(refer to his conversations in Germany). H-Maharaj is the last person on earth who we should assume to be so divine.
Why? Sadbe pare ca nishnatam is a qualification of a guru.
Thus, who ever your master is reject him if he agrees with HM. I'm guessing Bir Krishna or Saci swami, right?
Thank you again Prabhu.the material world is full of faults isn't it? I have just seen some more of mine.Fortunately we are not the controllers and Lord Krishna is.Prabhupada had disagreements with his God brothers but he turned out to be the one who did the most.I am not saying anyone is equal to Prabhupada but am trying to say shall we admit we cant see it all ourselves and see what happens? all glories to all Prabhupadas disciples and there sincere efforts dispite the differences and disagreements your aspiring servant bk steve... thank you for being mine... revealed in reflection dear Prabhu...
This is not about his private habits. He has gone against the scriptures and against the Acharyas on the Draupadi vastra haran matter. This itself makes him a fallen person caring not for the fact that he does not chant hare Krishna Mahamantra.
Ping pong games, dislike for dhotis, etc are relatively trivial matters.
Understand our position- The objections we raise are not against Hridayananda Maharaj's private or sexual or sensual deviations but against his malinterpretations and philosophical deviations. About his private life we have hardly anything to say.
In 1987, when Kirtanananda Swami was excommunicated from ISKCON, a majority of his disciples followed him. Yet no one at the time accused him of (or believed) that he was breaking the four regulative principles or not chanting his 16 rounds. Indeed, there is no mention of any of this in the 1987 resolution that expelled him from ISKCON:gbc.iskcon.org/2012/02/03/1987/
So, what we have here in ISKCON is a precedent for rejecting someone as a spiritual master who might otherwise follow all the regulative principles but as per the GBC resolution has nevertheless “systematically obscured and minimized His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Srila Prabhupada’s pre-eminent position as the Founder-Acarya of ISKCON.” Yet we are supposed to think that if such a person follows the four regulative principles and chants sixteen rounds, he is nonetheless a bona fide spiritual master? To quote Hridayananda Maharaja himself, “What planet have you been on? Where have you been? Like are you coming from some other sector of the galaxy?”
+Tapasya Tyaga Hridayananda maharaj has not condoned gay sex or any form of illicit sex, please try and understand the principles don't get caught up on the details which can be adjusted according to time place and circumstance ys
Proof that Śrīla Prabhupāda’s disciples knew, in 1975, what his instructions were on addressing women as “Prabhu”:
“Beth Prabhu…Eileen Prabhu…Judy Prabhu…Merylee Prabhu…Julie Prabhu…Faith Prabhu…Alexis Prabhu…Linda Prabhu”
>>> Ref. VedaBase => New York (1975 Vyāsa Pūjā Homage)
In the 1988 Vyas Puja book everyone is das or dasi or Bhakta or bhaktin
Ok Prabhu lets see, I have service to do, ys
Thank you Prabhu I see a lot by Krishnas mercy in your coments,please excuse my criticism and may Lord Gauranga deliver us both by whatever ashram that is needed from this material world including programs like Krishna West! Hridayananda Maharaj is a Paramahamsa and is using whatever material means needed to try and deliver the western countries from impersonalism and voidism.i hope we can all realise the higher goal he is trying to achieve for Srila Prabhupada!!! lets help him and the more conservative Sanyasis both alike and see what works In this highest ultimate goal of Chaitanya Mahaprabhu and His Divine Grace Srila Prabhupada!!! ys
Which paramhamsa has ever played table tennis games in public with other men's wives?
Which paramhamsa has denied Draupadi vastra haran kand?
Which paramhamsa has called Badri Narayan Maharaja Poison?
Which paramhamsa has called for giving some recognition to gay monogamous relationships?
Which paramhamsa hamsa had lesbian disciples?
Which paramhamsa has ever said, "if Prabhupada was here I would have convinced him of my views"
Bhaktivinoda encouraged to chant loudly and Prabhupada never himself chanted in the mind (his 16 rounds) so who is he following?
someone will be leaving the Brahmacari ashram and getting married,thats a lot of focus on a womans position in iskcon for a "Monk" no offense Prabhu all glories to your devotional service Ys
Thanks for your concerns. But u underestimate Krishna mercy. If Krishna can protect Sacinandana Maharaj while sitting in Bhanu Nandini Mataji's lap I believe that He can protect poor me while I make a few vids which will end up saving your wife from side long glances of Hridayananda Maharaja's table tennis bat.
liberal and conservative differences aside. I hope that our movement is successful and if its Krishna west that is successful then all glories...as far as I understand Hridayananda Maharaja is not doing anything outside the philosophy principles and institution Srila Prabhupada gave us...changeable details are another thing so lets not confuse them...If the conservative members of iskcon are successful in making Krishna consciousness grow then all glories to them but it isn't happening and hasn't for a long time so what to do? we as a movement have to try and adjust the details not the philosophy principles and institution to make KC relevant and to help it grow again...That is what Prabhupada would want and adjusting details was something he often did...isn't doing so to save the conditioned souls the whole point? as I have said previously lets see what works...as Prabhupada said you judge a tree by its fruits :-) ys
That means u misunderstood, or maybe don't want to understand
I don't know Prabhu I'm no expert :-) I'm just trying to point you in another direction.all I can see is that by my admittedly limited understanding Hridayananda Maharaj is way ahead in his understanding of the Shastra and Philosophy so why not research it yourself rather than just blaspheming him on the net.thats the point I want to make but free will is absolute! thank Govinda ;-) ys
+Tapasya Tyaga Srila Prabhupada taught us Krishna conscious philosophy please try and learn it so you don't continue to mistake changeable details for actual Philosophical Principles
+Tapasya Tyaga Yes he was I agree try and understand what he actually taught I have given you the reference to his purport in the seventh canto...
I never said you were a fool :-) read the suggested Purport Prabhu,Seventh canto where Narada Muni is instructing Dhruva Maharaja you may find it enlightening! Or not free will is absolute and maya... Kirtanananda changed the philosophy the principals and the institution.Hridayananda Maharaja has done none of those things and is still operating within the framework of those three things,may I humbly suggest you educate yourself further or by your own action you may end up being the fool... Ys
"We are taught to address others as Prabhu. Prabhu means master; and the leader of the masters is called Prabhupada."
(Srila Prabhupada letter, 10th May, 1970)
BG Purport 3:34--"All other women (except one wife) are to be considered as one's mother."
best wishes ys
:-) Can you back those statements with actual Philosophy? ys
Read Mahabharata and folio search Draupadi u wil find it besides No acharya has denied this from the Mahabharata, only hridayananda maharja is the exceptional person. And he called himself acharya deva.
Backup 2+2 = 4 with actual philosophy, it's clear if you study the basis of mathematics so is all the above if you study Prabhupada's books etc with intelligence.
I should have asked you this first before replying to anything you said, "do you believe hridayananda maharja chants in the mind or have you seen him chant in the mind" If the answer is yes then a lot of time as been wasted I'm indulging you as with Cyril Wohrer.
Facts as YOU put it can be misinterpreted and used as weapons if the actual Philosophy behind them isn't properly understood. I would very much like to see Hridayananda Maharaj debate these "facts" with you for clarification and (if the humble position is taken) rectification. Should a sincere soul who has the Karma to be Gay and in a relationship be denied the right to go back to godhead if they follow the four regs and other principles of Bhakti? I know that gay marriage is a controversial point but we need to look beyond the externals and at the real point which is to give any sincere soul the right to go back to godhead no matter what there temporary external karmic situation maybe,this is true compassion.I have not heard one sound Philosophical argument from you Prabhu and I have heard many from Hridayananda maharaja that defute your so called "facts" It is my understanding that you are missing the point of what the Sankirtan movement is all about and are hiding your own spiritual problems behind a misinformed attack on anything outside your own limited understanding.please note I say this strongly but with compassion for your current situation and do not say these things for any reason other than your personal spiritual benefit and the benefit of others who maybe mislead by your baseless attacks on Hridayananda Maharaja and his sincere efforts to preach Prabhupadas mission according to time place and circumstance...
Draupadi vastra haran kanda happened because Mahabharata says so.
Mahabharata is not faulty nor currupt nor missing in slokas etc.
Tell him to refute the above.
Let's start there.
A person declaring the scriptures (esp. something like the Mahabharata which has the gita init as opposed to say Skanda Purana (which has no commentary by the achrayas)) to be faulty is an atheist.
Accn. to Manu he must be excommunicated and marked as an atheist.
What is 'time place circumstance' about rejecting Mahabharata's stories?
+Tapasya Tyaga Philosophically baseless you are viewing Krishna consciousness as rules not principles and that is Fanaticism
+Tapasya Tyaga ,No one Hridayananda Maharaj or myself is advocating illicit sex in any form.I have reasonably asked you to read the relevant purports in Prabhupadas books and the fact you haven't comented on them tends to show you have made your mind up and are not open to reasonable debate...this indicates fanaticism... you have missed the point and are using your misinterpretation to form a baseless argument. Krishna west is succeeding in the west and many devotees are coming along because the details are being changed not the principles the philosophy or the institution the three things that Prabhupada taught us...as for going away No! I am loyal to iskcon which is Prabhupadas institution only the Ritviks have gone away from Prabhupada... Ys
Steve Purdy A gay person is most welcome to spiritual enlightment but as far as vedic marriage is concerned, marriage is meant for the sole purpose of making Krishna conscious children. Therefore there is no point in gays getting married, they would do so only for sense gratification...they can't make no babies u know that right??...Therefore your maharaj or so called maharaj is wrong for marrying gay ppl, best admit it and free yourself from the illusion. Maya is strong....Find another Guru! Sorry..