Hey Keith. This is a really insightful video. Thank you for the good content. Just an update on my .284win: I was finally able to true the BC for the 168 Peregrine Glider monolithic bullet. The G7 BC is around .37 and I get 3020 ft/sec out of my 32 inch barrel with 85mm COAL over 54.5gr of H4350. This seems almost too good to be true but I made first round impacts at 1357 and 1804 yards.
I have been working up a load for my new Christensen Arms Mesa Long Range in a .308, and it started off grouping GREAT......and then it was HORRIBLE......so bad I called to return the rifle. As soon as I went to remove my scope I noticed that the mounting screws were not loose, but not tight. I re-torqued everything, and it went back to grouping. And then it did it again. Same exact thing, the screws would back out under recoil, and it would start to open up. I wound up using loctite on the rail mounts. I might remove them again and do this as well. Thank you for this video!
Thank you for explaining this. I'm new to bedding, I just barely did my scope rail to action and action to stock, and im looking forward to my next range day to test it out. Listening to your description of the movement as indicated by the wear marks makes a lot of sense to me and explained what i was seeing. I knew bedding helped to solidify thnigs, but your explanation took my understanding one step further.
Good info! I'm used to hearing about extreme spread in velocity... when you started showing charts with ES, I had to rewind and watch again, because my BS detector was beeping... but alas, all is well, we're talking ES in inches... good stuff!
been in a similar situation with a aluminum alloy receiver .22, I glued the barrel into the receiver, retaining compound for the scope rail as well as plenty of clearance between barrel and fore end, resulted in a dramatic improvement with respectable consistent performance out to 300y
Great presentation. Also pleased to see the 77gr TMK feature. I have a T3 with 25” custom barrel throated specifically for these bullets. Currently using 24.7gr of Vhit 140, which is under max load but confirms your general comment that the TMK’s group better just under max load
I had the same issues all at once then blew a primer out the back completely to not find to examine. This may be a good time to revisit a video you made a while ago that alot others and myself never heard of, and that's a firing pinhole an maybe a firing pin dropping down an over time gets a pointed end not rounded an may need a bushing. You did a very good job telling us an today my rifle was shipped to the Smith. Great advice on this new one, thanks.
Good to see, i have been doing this for over 15 years. I have even applied bedding to bottom metal, in my mind i wont everything to vibrate together. Any out of tune harmonic will dampen another irregularly. I have seen group differances from using a 4 round flush fit magazine to a 10 round mag.
On my 6mm Br Norma my scope rail is integrated with the receiver. Also my 6.5 Creedmoor receiver is manufactured the same way. If I get a receiver with a bolt on rail I will keep that in mind. Thanks Keith
Recently had to do so ilae process in order adjust elevation...was struggling to zero rifle at 100 yards with egw 0 moa rail on rem700.🤯 I found the the rail did not fit very well...and that this is infact normal for picatinny rails. So to make consistent even contact between rail and action, bedding is required... After the picatinny rail bedding job...I was able.tp zero the rifle. It was surprising to see how much bedding material was required, almost all of picatinny surface, to make the pit close.. perfect.. etc. I still have issues trusting release agents..😂 Good Video Keith. Thanks.
For such a wide node, would using a higher powder charge when shooting in an arctic or cold environment correlate directly with one of the lower powder charges?
Not with AR-Comp. It is a double-base powder with a lot of additives to reduce temperature variation. That said, some powders actually have inverse temperature response, so testing would be the best course of action.
Interesting. So scope mount base torque may warp / bend the barrel to a point, where it changes the bullet velocity. Makes certainly sense for R700 or Tikka type bolt actions. I wonder what - if any - would be the impact on velocity on AR rifles.
Scope base mount torque may warp the barrel? Uh.. no? Warping the barrel lowers velocity? No.. Inadequate scope mount base torque allows movement and that movement contributes to larger groups. The general theme of the video was things moving and contributing to larger groups and how increasing rigidity increased precision. He has some statistical coincidental noise that shows the smaller groups at a lower charge. That's all that is. The barrel was loose to the receiver, so he tightened it. The scope base was insecure on the receiver, so he secured it.
@@winninginthewind Ah, my bad - sorry. I noticed ES on the Y axis, and assumed it's the speed. Then I noticed it's group spread, not velocity. Your criticism to my comment was well deserved. Blame my lack of rest, I was watching the video late in the night.
Content is the win . If you named it Chicken Soup I would have watched it. Do you have any new info on the Neolube? And are you coating bullet and case neck?
I would not have squeezed the rear section 4m 29s. Surely it would distort the fit already achieved by simply tightening the front-section screws, as you did?
The squeezing was to overcome the viscosity of the glue. If I don't do that, I get a rail with a little stress in it. As long at it is squeezed, and the forces are removed, I get a good outcome.
Noticed your using a remage nut. Did you torque that to 120ft/lbs? Have you noticed a barrel nut system shoot slightly worse than a shouldered barrel in general? Asking as I've used them, torqued them at recommended and then a little beyond recommended torque and they just never seen to stay as stable in group size or poi as my shouldered barrels.
I only have a sample size of one. I don't have enough experience with them to make any assertion. As for torque, it's tight, but no, I don't think the nut will handle 125 ft/lbs
I'm confused: did you say a 77 grain bullet in a 7 Rem mag? Am I missing something, or is that a really light bullet for that caliber?(ie a short bullet) I don't have A 7 Rem mag, but do have a 7mm-08, but usually shoot 140-150 gn bullets..
@@winninginthewind lol that makes a lot more sense.. I just got a Ruger American Predator in 223, not sure if it'll stabilize those.. what twist rate are you using?
Yes Sr, same as bedding,....& a gruesome rem-round-bottom action is a nightmare.....at any given time....could be when ever....lol,...& then the rail, AND rings on rail,....why I use RTV silicone as a bed-compound....or what ever....& some of the johnny come lately claim it is un-necessary....lol
It’s more about the channel. This channel is about chasing and catching what makes precision. It is a channel full f content to make people think. What is the caption said, ‘ how to improve your group’ I think that would also seem like Clickbait. There’s no magic pill for any of the stuff. The best approach I find is the look at this like building, wisdom. :)
Hey Keith. This is a really insightful video. Thank you for the good content. Just an update on my .284win: I was finally able to true the BC for the 168 Peregrine Glider monolithic bullet. The G7 BC is around .37 and I get 3020 ft/sec out of my 32 inch barrel with 85mm COAL over 54.5gr of H4350. This seems almost too good to be true but I made first round impacts at 1357 and 1804 yards.
That is spectacular BC! The math says it would be a game changer!
Thanks for sharing!
I have been working up a load for my new Christensen Arms Mesa Long Range in a .308, and it started off grouping GREAT......and then it was HORRIBLE......so bad I called to return the rifle. As soon as I went to remove my scope I noticed that the mounting screws were not loose, but not tight. I re-torqued everything, and it went back to grouping. And then it did it again. Same exact thing, the screws would back out under recoil, and it would start to open up. I wound up using loctite on the rail mounts. I might remove them again and do this as well. Thank you for this video!
Thank you for explaining this. I'm new to bedding, I just barely did my scope rail to action and action to stock, and im looking forward to my next range day to test it out. Listening to your description of the movement as indicated by the wear marks makes a lot of sense to me and explained what i was seeing. I knew bedding helped to solidify thnigs, but your explanation took my understanding one step further.
Good info! I'm used to hearing about extreme spread in velocity... when you started showing charts with ES, I had to rewind and watch again, because my BS detector was beeping... but alas, all is well, we're talking ES in inches... good stuff!
been in a similar situation with a aluminum alloy receiver .22, I glued the barrel into the receiver, retaining compound for the scope rail as well as plenty of clearance between barrel and fore end, resulted in a dramatic improvement with respectable consistent performance out to 300y
Great presentation. Also pleased to see the 77gr TMK feature. I have a T3 with 25” custom barrel throated specifically for these bullets. Currently using 24.7gr of Vhit 140, which is under max load but confirms your general comment that the TMK’s group better just under max load
I had the same issues all at once then blew a primer out the back completely to not find to examine. This may be a good time to revisit a video you made a while ago that alot others and myself never heard of, and that's a firing pinhole an maybe a firing pin dropping down an over time gets a pointed end not rounded an may need a bushing. You did a very good job telling us an today my rifle was shipped to the Smith. Great advice on this new one, thanks.
Good to see, i have been doing this for over 15 years. I have even applied bedding to bottom metal, in my mind i wont everything to vibrate together. Any out of tune harmonic will dampen another irregularly.
I have seen group differances from using a 4 round flush fit magazine to a 10 round mag.
From upward thrust against the bolt, or the difference in vibrating mass?
Good to see your content again. Thanks for all the work you put into your videos- they are top notch as always!
Great advice! I did this exact thing with my scope rail but I used a release agent on the action.
Yes Sir !! - Great content of the utmost importance to precision & accuracy.
I've taken to bedding my scope rail on with Loctite 638. With heat, it can be removed but gives me a solid lock between that rail and the action.
thank you good stuff !
Great Information never would have thought of that one.. thank you .
Great vid! I've got a couple rifles that should also be shooting great, but don't. This gives me some ideas & hope that I might now be able to fix.
On my 6mm Br Norma my scope rail is integrated with the receiver. Also my 6.5 Creedmoor receiver is manufactured the same way. If I get a receiver with a bolt on rail I will keep that in mind.
Thanks Keith
That is the next video that I need to do - Why use a custom action?
Recently had to do so ilae process in order adjust elevation...was struggling to zero rifle at 100 yards with egw 0 moa rail on rem700.🤯
I found the the rail did not fit very well...and that this is infact normal for picatinny rails.
So to make consistent even contact between rail and action, bedding is required...
After the picatinny rail bedding job...I was able.tp zero the rifle.
It was surprising to see how much bedding material was required, almost all of picatinny surface, to make the pit close.. perfect.. etc.
I still have issues trusting release agents..😂
Good Video Keith.
Thanks.
I would love to know how you prep your brass and annealing
For such a wide node, would using a higher powder charge when shooting in an arctic or cold environment correlate directly with one of the lower powder charges?
Not with AR-Comp. It is a double-base powder with a lot of additives to reduce temperature variation. That said, some powders actually have inverse temperature response, so testing would be the best course of action.
I'm a firm believer in bedding a rail.
Remage = Remington-Savage.
He used a Savage style barrel nut on a Remington receiver.
Thank you for this! I suppose it's worth the extra money to purchase actions with machined-in rails (or pinned rails).
Best of all is an action that the rail is integral. No screws to loosen, or rails to move. One less point of failure.
Thanks
We bed the rails on remingtons and add 8x40 screws however not needed on the customs actions we use.
Is that a barrel nut 😢
Yes, and I still like shouldered barrels better.
How do you go about getting the scope rail off when you inevitably need to change g
the barrel?
Good reminder
Interesting. So scope mount base torque may warp / bend the barrel to a point, where it changes the bullet velocity. Makes certainly sense for R700 or Tikka type bolt actions.
I wonder what - if any - would be the impact on velocity on AR rifles.
Scope base mount torque may warp the barrel? Uh.. no? Warping the barrel lowers velocity? No..
Inadequate scope mount base torque allows movement and that movement contributes to larger groups. The general theme of the video was things moving and contributing to larger groups and how increasing rigidity increased precision. He has some statistical coincidental noise that shows the smaller groups at a lower charge. That's all that is.
The barrel was loose to the receiver, so he tightened it. The scope base was insecure on the receiver, so he secured it.
@@randomidiot8142 Check the video again, he did show velocity graphs. The muzzle velocity changed after he tightened the screws for scope mount base.
@@randomidiot8142 I'm with you,.....all I can do is SMH......lol....
The velocity to charge remained pretty constant across both tests. The numbers on the bottom were charge weights.
@@winninginthewind Ah, my bad - sorry. I noticed ES on the Y axis, and assumed it's the speed. Then I noticed it's group spread, not velocity.
Your criticism to my comment was well deserved. Blame my lack of rest, I was watching the video late in the night.
Do you think the Burris Signature Zee rings would have too much movement in them .
They've worked well for me when properly torqued.
Great stuff!
Glad you enjoyed it
Content is the win . If you named it Chicken Soup I would have watched it. Do you have any new info on the Neolube? And are you coating bullet and case neck?
I would not have squeezed the rear section 4m 29s. Surely it would distort the fit already achieved by simply tightening the front-section screws, as you did?
The squeezing was to overcome the viscosity of the glue. If I don't do that, I get a rail with a little stress in it. As long at it is squeezed, and the forces are removed, I get a good outcome.
I would never have thought of that. Thank you for your reply👍@@winninginthewind
Thanks man !!
Noticed your using a remage nut. Did you torque that to 120ft/lbs?
Have you noticed a barrel nut system shoot slightly worse than a shouldered barrel in general?
Asking as I've used them, torqued them at recommended and then a little beyond recommended torque and they just never seen to stay as stable in group size or poi as my shouldered barrels.
I only have a sample size of one. I don't have enough experience with them to make any assertion.
As for torque, it's tight, but no, I don't think the nut will handle 125 ft/lbs
I'm confused: did you say a 77 grain bullet in a 7 Rem mag? Am I missing something, or is that a really light bullet for that caliber?(ie a short bullet) I don't have A 7 Rem mag, but do have a 7mm-08, but usually shoot 140-150 gn bullets..
77 grain bullet in the 223 REM.
@@winninginthewind lol that makes a lot more sense.. I just got a Ruger American Predator in 223, not sure if it'll stabilize those.. what twist rate are you using?
This one is 1:7. Sierra recommends 1:8 minimum
Yes Sr, same as bedding,....& a gruesome rem-round-bottom action is a nightmare.....at any given time....could be when ever....lol,...& then the rail, AND rings on rail,....why I use RTV silicone as a bed-compound....or what ever....& some of the johnny come lately claim it is un-necessary....lol
🤠👍🏽💯
Foot lbs. ?….?
Ft-lbs for the barrel torque.
The uninformative clickbait titles with zero description of what the video is about is ruining your channel.
The tittles aren't a worry for me...the quality of content is...
Either it's currently relative to my interests..or... interesting general knowledge..
Yeah, super annoying. It’s really niche content, I don’t know why he’s trying to make his titles appeal to everyone
It’s more about the channel. This channel is about chasing and catching what makes precision.
It is a channel full f content to make people think.
What is the caption said, ‘ how to improve your group’
I think that would also seem like Clickbait. There’s no magic pill for any of the stuff. The best approach I find is the look at this like building, wisdom. :)
You guys just like to bitch about nothing. Unsubscribe and bye if you don't like the content. Good lord
How was the title click bait